A4 2.0T vs. TSX

[TurboTroy808]

I'm kinda a newb to Audis, as I have always been more of an Acura guy. I've always liked the look of the Audis, but before Audi had POS reliabilty from what I understand. I've heard that the German brands are improving on this (still not near Japanese - Honda/Toyota, not Nissan, standards, but w/e), so I started looking at Audis, since I like Audi way better than BMW and Merc. I was looking into buying a TSX, but after test driving the A4 the look of both the interior and exterior of the B7 is much nicer than the TSX. However, the A4 gets pricey when you load it with options found standard on the TSX. Also the 6spd on the TSX is smoother. And the TSX is definately more reliable. Is there any reason besides the good looks that I should buy a base A4 over a TSX? Quattro is too expensive, so it would be a comparison between FWD A4 and TSX. Of course if I found a used, low-mileage loaded A4 I would go with that. But the used car market here in Hawaii is pretty tight, so as far as between a base A4 (with leather/sunroof/6spd, nothing else), and a TSX, which is better? I know this is AUDIzine, but I wanted to hear some other opinions anyways.

Also, I looked at the paper posted on the window of the new Audis, and most or all of the 2.0T engines were built in Hungary. This doesn't sound too good to me. Did anyone have any problems with their engine (or anything) so far?

[mrponline]

Also, I looked at the paper posted on the window of the new Audis, and most or all of the 2.0T engines were built in Hungary. This doesn't sound too good to me. Did anyone have any problems with their engine (or anything) so far?

The engines are assembled in Hungry due to lower labor costs. Most eastern european countries are now part of the EU so it makes commercial sense for VW to utilies these places for assembly and production of parts.

I wouldnt be worried to much in terms of quality, as the parts and assembly process undergo VW quality control. Sure you will get the odd lemon but that can happen with any car.

FWIW my 2007 VW R32 was assembled in South Africa and most of the parts used to put it togehter where produced in eastern europe. So far no problems with it, it gets driven hard on a daily basis. At least with the Audis the assembly of the car happens in Europe.


If your considering buying a fully loaded used A4 then you cant go passed this
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119136

and if you want a manual and an A4 that actually moves consider this
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114414

[S_line4four]

acura is coming out with a turbo tsx that is awd in the sprin of 08 and 09 ....so most likely in the next 1.5 years......could be worth the wait.....

[mksap11]

Not really an answer to your question but don't be brainwashed into thinking that a car is reliable just because the parent company is Japanese. My co-worker is on his third transmission in the first 50K miles in his TL

[rds0000]

Having gone on a few test drives recently to find a fun DD, i had the chance to sample some of these Japanese imports. I drove my Audi to all of them (test drives) and i really couldnt find something that matched the overall refinement of my car. Most were pretty fast (some VERY), some had reasonably nice interiors, but after each one, i got back in my car and realized that Audi puts together a very nice car at any price. Its the total package. The interior and exterior styling, the powetrain, Quattro, not to mention, the overall driving "feel". Granted, my car is "enhanced", but for what i paid including mods, its hard to find something comparable IMO. And as for reliablity records, i think most modern cars are VERY close, especially the ones the OP is looking at. And so you know, a few of your beloved Acura models' engines/models are produced right here in the good ole USA. Japanese, doesnt necessarily mean Japanese anymore either.

[audia420turbo]

IMO the a4 sh!ts all over the tsx in every possiable area

[DenverNoob]

i think the TSX is nice, and i was SERIOUSLY considering it when i bought my b6 1.8t 2.5yrs ago. i drove both over and over (i narrowed the search to these two from a saab 93 aero, a bmw 325xi, acura TL, Land Rover Disco 2, and a couple of others). i know these cars are across several classes and price ranges...but i can certainly see where you are coming from liking the TSX...I really liked it too, and for the $$, you get quite a bit.

...having said that...

i have not for one second regretted having my a4. it took a little bit of work to get me 100% happy with it (chip, short shifter, etc)...but i will tell you this...just a couple of performance enhancing mods will get you there...ESP on a fronttrack car. get the A4, plain and simple. you will love the refinement...and will often find yourself just gazing at it wondering how you even thought about buying something else...trust me.

[echo7]

Coming to this with an English perspective...

Most Europeans in the middle - top end market demand high build quality and tactile interiors. I suppose we are just used to it..

Ive sat in a few jap motors...all have shite interiors. cheaper plastic than in my pen. Stuff rattles and things fall off in your hands. TBH in the UK these motors are for boy racers or nobs that cant afford a decent marque or have no brains
I mean even a modded one looks crap IMO


Audi/VW know how to make a car.. and look at the american market now...you guys cant get enough of em

I think americans are more concerned about build quality now and are wanting these plush interiors (and who could blame you ) and great build quality.

Just over spend a bit on your car, make her nice and she will reward you for the next few years to come

My view stuff the jap crap and enter the big family

[TurboTroy808]

acura is coming out with a turbo tsx that is awd in the sprin of 08 and 09 ....so most likely in the next 1.5 years......could be worth the wait.....

Yes the third option was to wait for that (although it most likely won't have a turbo, but a significant power increase), or even the B8 A4? From what I've heard, it's coming out in fall of 2008. Can anyone confirm this?

[TurboTroy808]

Not really an answer to your question but don't be brainwashed into thinking that a car is reliable just because the parent company is Japanese. My co-worker is on his third transmission in the first 50K miles in his TL

Hmm... must be a lemon... My mom has a 2004 TL with about 28,000mi on it and we've had no mechanical problems yet.

[lucifer]

after owning an Audi, you really dont even want to drive anything else...its just the overall feel of the car, everything is designed around the real driver...placement of interior features, textures (actually Audi hires people that study the way that people react to different textures and materials), and overall design and build quality(see how well the jap car holds up after a year, stuff will loosen up and rattle). but its your choice

[INTEGRATION]

My first choice before getting the A4 was the TSX. And look where that got me lol.
Bang for the buck the TSX is a better deal but overall quality-wise the A4 feels more complete- especially if you end up getting it with Quattro.

[John1.8T]

After my B6 was totaled I went out to look/drive other cars.... by this time the B7 JUST came out. I drive several cars and the only one I would even consider or compare to the A4 was the TSX. It was a nice car, pretty quick, smooth and I liked the design. The A4 is still a lot more car and IMO a lot nicer... thats why I stuck with it.

[S_line4four]

Yes the third option was to wait for that (although it most likely won't have a turbo, but a significant power increase), or even the B8 A4? From what I've heard, it's coming out in fall of 2008. Can anyone confirm this?

troy.....

I worked on the upcoming tsx (design team) and know for a fact that there will be a turbo........the significant power increase is a no brainer....the rdx motor is the predecessor to what they will be using on the next tsx and tsx coupe.....both coming in the fall of 08....

[VroomVroom]

Last April my wife bought a TSX, and we looked very carefully - and thoroughly - at both the A3 and the A4. Which partially led to my A4 lust and ultimate purchase in November. :)

The TSX is bigger than the A4. Not by much, but if you load up the back seat and trunk on occasion, this is a factor. The TSX, standard, is loaded to the gills with features. When we bought, we added a bunch of accessories (steering wheel, trim, aw mats, trunk tray, splash guards), and an extended warranty. During the first two weeks I had a few items painted and bought a set of 18's, and all said & done we still spent less than the best sales price on the A4.

All of this stuff was important to my wife, and she was the one writing the check, so we bought the TSX. Up until inking the deal I lobbied heavily for either the A3 or the A4. Why? The doors close with solidity. The hood doesn't shake when you drive down the road. The smaller engine (granted it's not naturally aspirated) is both peppier and makes niceer music. The driving experience makes you feel connected...steering, brakes, shifting, acceleration...you name it. The TSX is just numb by comparison. Not sure if this is important to you, but we have had a surprisingly large number of door dings. The metal is THIN, and as a detailing junkie, I can also tell you the clearcoat is very soft.

So...in my opinion, it all comes down to what is important to you. Are you after a driving experience, or transportation? If it's the latter, or even if that's just more important to you, I'd recommend the TSX. Maintenance is cheap and in 10 months (but almost 19k miles) we haven't had a single warranty concern or repair issue. There's simply no questioning the value per dollar spent.

In comparing the dealer experience, Audi is much stronger. With Audi you're treated like you bought a premium-branded car. With Acura you're treated like you bought a Honda. This may or not be important depending on your opinion of reliability and durability. Speaking only to the extended warranty costs, Audi seems to expect to see you on occasion. :) That said, their CPO program is SO much better than the Acura one that I'm not sure that's a valid statement. In any case, I think it's fair to say you can expect higher maintenance costs with the Audi, and potentially more repair costs as well.

Good luck with the decision...

[b7cruiser]

Coming to this with an English perspective...

"Ive sat in a few jap motors"

"My view stuff the jap crap and enter the big family

You stupid Nazi!

[DrewBo]

Not really an answer to your question but don't be brainwashed into thinking that a car is reliable just because the parent company is Japanese. My co-worker is on his third transmission in the first 50K miles in his TL

i went through two transmissions within 35k on my old TL.. i had a TSX for a loaner car and it was pleasant but does not compare on fit and finish with my A4

[echo7]

Nazi?

IMO jap motors are crap.. how is that nazi?

What an idiot...

[b7cruiser]

Nazi?

IMO jap motors are crap.. how is that nazi?

What an idiot...

whatever!

[DenverNoob]

"whatever, whatever, i do what i want!"

[rds0000]

You stupid Nazi!

See this is how threads get off track. In the future try something like, "You stupid Nazi, Jap motors rock!" If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, move on. As a Jew i didnt have a problem with it and i happen to dig Jap motors. What do the Limeys know anyway?

[DenverNoob]

See this is how threads get off track. In the future try something like, "You stupid Nazi, Jap motors rock!" If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, move on. As a Jew i didnt have a problem with it and i happen to dig Jap motors. What do the Limeys know anyway?

another Eric Cartman Quote:

"you stupid J-O-O Jooooooo."

jk man, im MOT so im not going after ya.

my last name is Goldenberg....good Irish Catholic name....lol.

[spencer ko]

I remember 2 days ago I was with my friend in a gas station, we saw an old guy with his Acura TSX, then my friend just walked by his car and said "Accord".
LOL the old guy doesn't look too happy about that.

Stupid FWD jap motor

[TurboTroy808]

troy.....

I worked on the upcoming tsx (design team) and know for a fact that there will be a turbo........the significant power increase is a no brainer....the rdx motor is the predecessor to what they will be using on the next tsx and tsx coupe.....both coming in the fall of 08....

Are you serious? Now you've got me excited. Is it based on the Honda Sorts 4 concept shown at the 2005 Tokyo show? When you say that the RDX engine is the predecessor to the nex-gen TSX one, are you saying that there will be the K23 setup in the TSX? How much power are we talking here? 250hp? And is there any pricing details that you may have? I know that Honda is pretty coy about details of nex-gen cars, but maybe you know since you were on the design team. If they keep it within $1K-$2K of the current car, then that will be an excellent value. If it has both SH-AWD and a Turbo, there should be no question between the TSX and the B7. But the B8 is supposed to be released around the same time-fall 2008-right? We shall see how this comparison goes...

[ron8818]

Well man
i was coming from a 2006 Acura TSX. 6sp. I actually claimed lemon on that because it was breakin dwon on me (Clutch) During my first 3000 miles of a new car, it has went into the dealer 5 times. 2 times (tow-in) one time involved in a accident. because the clutch failed (pedal went all the way to the floor and stayed) Creepy i know.
That being said,
I got all my money back FULL Price and got the same money and bought a used b7 A4. for $31,000 here in Califonria.

I love the A4 soooo much better. in terms of power, torque, fit and finsih is not plastic, handling.

I love Acura navigation, touch screen, bluetooth, etc. Electronic toys!

A guy once told me "If you want a smile on your face, at a red light playing with all the electronics, the buy JAPANESE CARS. If you want a smile on your face on a green light, BUY GERMAN CARS!"

[Gerblack]

You stupid Nazi!

They were allies so why is he a Nazi. Hey get your derogatory terms right.

[rds0000]

another Eric Cartman Quote:

"you stupid J-O-O Jooooooo."

.

Perhaps i could change to rdsJ0000

[b7cruiser]

They were allies so why is he a Nazi. Hey get your derogatory terms right.

sorry racist, bigot. i'll try and remember that the next time.

[Entertainment72]

I have a 2004 TL 6spd with approx 48,000 miles and NO issues whatsoever..


oops.. I stand corrected.. the battery died.

[Gerblack]

sorry racist, bigot. i'll try and remember that the next time.

I am racist/Bigot? Gerblack= German and Black, I am mixed so either I have to call one of my parents and tell them I don't really like their Racial or cultural heritage or you just might be off if that is what you are try to call me.

[mksap11]

I have a 2004 TL 6spd with approx 48,000 miles and NO issues whatsoever..


oops.. I stand corrected.. the battery died.

Right. Didn't mean to come across as though I was picking on the reliability of the TL. My point was that any car from any manufacturer can be problematic. Yes, Acura/Honda has higher average reliability but that that does mean that you are immune from having problems.

Although getting slightly off topic, Honda issued a auto transmission recall on 2003-2004 Accord V6s, 2000-2003 (and early 2004) TLs and 2001-2003 CL coupes back in 2004.

[verno]

Let's just say japanese rather than jap and leave it at that. I am japanese and love my new Audi and don't really care if you call me jap but some take offense to it. It's like saying the "N" word to a black person when you are not black. Then we can get on with the pertinent info rather than all this "you're a racist" crap!

[b7cruiser]

Ah, words of reason...

Let's just say japanese rather than jap and leave it at that. I am japanese and love my new Audi and don't really care if you call me jap but some take offense to it. It's like saying the "N" word to a black person when you are not black. Then we can get on with the pertinent info rather than all this "you're a racist" crap!

[b7cruiser]

"All of this stuff was important to my wife", and she was the one writing the check, so we bought the TSX. Up until inking the deal I lobbied heavily for either the A3 or the A4. Why? The doors close with solidity. The hood doesn't shake when you drive down the road. The smaller engine (granted it's not naturally aspirated) is both peppier and makes niceer music. The driving experience makes you feel connected...steering, brakes, shifting, acceleration...you name it. The TSX is just numb by comparison. Not sure if this is important to you, but we have had a surprisingly large number of door dings. The metal is THIN, and as a detailing junkie, I can also tell you the clearcoat is very soft.

So...in my opinion, it all comes down to what is important to you. Are you after a driving experience, or transportation? If it's the latter, or even if that's just more important to you, I'd recommend the TSX. Maintenance is cheap and in 10 months (but almost 19k miles) we haven't had a single warranty concern or repair issue. There's simply no questioning the value per dollar spent.

Audi:
1. Has the bling of European styling
2. Turbo and mods a readily available
3. Fun Factor
4. AZ message boards are both educational and entertaining

Acura:
1. If you are in Hawaii, japanese imports are a dime a dozen
2. Only (other) one on the block to have one in white, silver or black?
3. No AWD until next year (maybe)
4. Looks a lot like at TL and the styling becomes out dated fast

Reliability: Luck can go either way for any car. If you read the boards, some have tremendous troubles while others have no troubles at all.

[boostedsline]

I think most of us have owned a japanese car at one point or another. Having said that I know with every car I have owned I have always been looking around at other cars thinking "I wish I had this" or "Why doesn't my car have that" that is until I got my Audi. I have owned so many different cars, Jeep, Honda, Infiniti, BMW, Audi etc. and Audi's are the only cars that totally satisfy me. I love everything about my car. German cars are the best well rounded cars out there. They do everything equally well. My G35, fast as hell but couldn't handle if it's life depended it. And sure any car manufacturer can produce a car that is AWD but we don't have AWD we have Quattro and there is a huge difference. My other car...a VW R32 and I'll race that little fast anytime it wants in the snow. Sure 4 Motion is AWD but it still does not match up to Quattro and it's not going to. Comparing Acura and Audi is not even close to the same thing. Reliability? When was the last time Acura backed one of their cars with a maintenance free warranty? Oh yeah NEVER!

[VroomVroom]

Reliability? When was the last time Acura backed one of their cars with a maintenance free warranty? Oh yeah NEVER!

You make some great points, so I hesitate to pick on that last one. However, maintenance and warranty are two entirely separate terms. Audi, BMW...and anyone else who has thrown in free maintenance has done so from a marketing perspective, not an engineering one.

The red light/green light analogy offered earlier is hilarious. I plan to use it often.

[TurboTroy808]

I think most of us have owned a japanese car at one point or another. Having said that I know with every car I have owned I have always been looking around at other cars thinking "I wish I had this" or "Why doesn't my car have that" that is until I got my Audi. I have owned so many different cars, Jeep, Honda, Infiniti, BMW, Audi etc. and Audi's are the only cars that totally satisfy me. I love everything about my car. German cars are the best well rounded cars out there. They do everything equally well. My G35, fast as hell but couldn't handle if it's life depended it. And sure any car manufacturer can produce a car that is AWD but we don't have AWD we have Quattro and there is a huge difference. My other car...a VW R32 and I'll race that little fast anytime it wants in the snow. Sure 4 Motion is AWD but it still does not match up to Quattro and it's not going to. Comparing Acura and Audi is not even close to the same thing. Reliability? When was the last time Acura backed one of their cars with a maintenance free warranty? Oh yeah NEVER!

From what I hear, SH-AWD is pretty good. Also, Acura's are cheap compared to Audis, and even after the Acura's maitenance costs, it will still probably be cheaper than the Audi. But yes, many people who owns an Audi really love their cars. And they are absolutely stunnung, I can't argue with anyone about that.

[VroomVroom]

Coincidentally, we were car shopping this last weekend. We looked at Acuras, and drove the RL and new MDX, each of which has SH-AWD. From the driver's seat it is very impressive. We drove on some serious twisties and in the rain. One of the things that amazed me about both vehicles is the steering feel...not something I associate with Honda, and certainly not with my wife's (now old) TSX. My only concern would be durability. Someone posted earlier about Honda's automatic transmissions....a well-known Achilles heel. If they can't build those stoutly enough, how can we trust the xfer cases and other hardware associated with f-r and l-r torque splits? Just a thought...

[quattrotman]

You know what I like to tell people whenever they are trying to decide between a japanese car and a european one; take a look at 5+ year old examples of either and decide which still looks good. IMO, japanese styles age very quickly while euro styling stays classic. Quality is one thing but honestly with all new cars nowadays, once their out of warranty you're screwed anyways which is why prices drop like a rock when a car's waranty is expired. It's ultimately up to you but if you're on the fence, you probably won't appreciate the audi for what its worth anyways. I never considered reliability when I bought my A4. For me it was the styling, luxury and the 'feel'. If you don't understand the difference in 'feel' with a german car you mind as well buy the acura.

[lucifer]

Well man
A guy once told me "If you want a smile on your face, at a red light playing with all the electronics, the buy JAPANESE CARS. If you want a smile on your face on a green light, BUY GERMAN CARS!"

Great quote man