Toluene - The REAL Octane Booster

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

Who uses it ?
Where do you get it?

Toluene facts

[LAS]

like i mentioned in my PM, home depot or lowes. i don't think they'll sell less that $12-$15/gal.

btw, you can also use xylene. but heard/read toluene is more recommended.

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

I am just curious about how many members use this.
I also found this http://www.dsm.org/archives/1996/04/19960425.txt/8.html

When I mention Toluene to the guys at Home depot the look at me like I am an alien or something, however I was able to get a hold of some at the local Sherwin Williams store @ 15$ per gallon. (I gave them a call, However I forgot to ask about the 5Gal container(supposedly cheaper))

[SANS RICE]

I have used it and it does indeed work. The problem is that with prolonged use it will eat away at any plastic seals or fittings in the fuel line. I was buying it at a pro paint supply shop (make sure its 100% toluene - not denatured)...

[jimmyrecluse]

Ive used it in my last 3 cars over the last 3.5 years. My 2 S4's and the A4. It does work I get it at a paint shop for 8.50 a gallon.

[bhvrdr]

Ive used it in my last 3 cars over the last 3.5 years. My 2 S4's and the A4. It does work I get it at a paint shop for 8.50 a gallon.

I second this. I've used it in 2 audi a4 cars and now my S4. It will get you close to about 98 octane using a 30% mix or so. That is how I use it. No problems ever. I also use a contractors account to get it for about the same price.

cheers! Mike

[nadroj81]

you get more power from octane. You will notice a difference compared to tol.

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

to tol ?

What is tol?

Toluene?

[Dangler]

you get more power from octane. You will notice a difference compared to tol.

octane rating just represents the gasolines ability to "fight" detonation...you get more power due to the engines abilty to convert chemical energy to mechanical energy....high performance engines burn hotter, which means higher combustion chamber temps, higher octane just means that the gas won't burn before the spark plug fires....chemistry would tell you that higher octane fuels need more activation energy to burn

basically higher octane lets you run a more aggresive fuel map, that would normally cause 89 octane to go "boom" before the plugs fire off in that particular cylinder...detonation = bye bye to pistons and/or rods...

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

Basically it will let you run more Boost and Timing and that equals Power.

[A_loha_4]

I also have experience using Toluene - not in my Audis, but in my 9psi supercharged Tundra (which pinged under full boost). My research at the time IIRC is that Toluene is an ingredient in regular gasoline as an octane boosting component, although in a small quantity. Toluene by itself has an octane rating of 114, so you can calculate the octane of your mix using using that figure. Toulene is very toxic, says my sister the chemist, so try not get spill too much on yourself, and the fumes are not very good for you either . . .
That said, it worked wonders in my Tundra and cured the ping, but here in Hawaii it costs more like $12 / gallon, so it was pretty pricey to use all the time.
The

[BenGieCruz]

I second this. I've used it in 2 audi a4 cars and now my S4. It will get you close to about 98 octane using a 30% mix or so. That is how I use it. No problems ever. I also use a contractors account to get it for about the same price.

cheers! Mike

how do you mix it?
can u use it with any turbo n-gine to include our fatory k03????

[A_loha_4]

Mix it in the tank. Get a funnel or other safe way to pur it in. My preference was to put it in a very low tank, then add gas on top of it.

[Peter@VMRWheels]

Used it almost all the time (until gas + touluene got so expensive). I've had like 20-30 gallons of toulene sitting in my garage at any one time, ready to mix with 91 octane.

Before each filling, I'll put 2-3 gallons of toulene and mix full tank to give me respectable octane.. California 91 is just garbage.

[bhvrdr]

how do you mix it?
can u use it with any turbo n-gine to include our fatory k03????

As others said is pretty much how I have done it. I bring my car with 1/8 tank in it to the fuel station. I have a large metal race funnel (prevents spilling) I take with me and I mix in 3 gallons. Then I add another 4 gallons to bring it to a half tank. I do an autocross with a half tank. Figure if you have a total of a half tank of gas with three gallons of toluene in there than that is a 3/8.5 gallon mix or 35% toluene...makes it easy. Yes, you can use it in any engine. Log timing to see if it will be useful to you.

cheers! Mike

[Peter@VMRWheels]

^^ What he says, I do the same. But buy those race type fuel fillers, not the garbage "blitz" brand from walmart.

By the way, you can buy the stuff from sherwin williams, vista paint, etc... Beware that it will cost almost $10/gallon... This is a petroleum product so it follows crude oil. Almost not worth putting it in right now because of the horrible gas prices.

Does anyone know where we can get 55 gallon drums of this stuff? Might be cheaper ;)

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

When I called my local Sherwin Williams store they told me that they could get a hold of the 55 gal containers, and then proceeded to ask me: Do you have a pickup truck?

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

I was just reading that xylene is just as good if not a tab better, however when you mix more than 30% you should add lubrication.

Then again gains are marginally better (an octane point @ 30%) and you don't have to add lubrication, so sticking to toluene is best, but in case there is no toluene around xylene will do.

[SANS RICE]

xylene is indeed a worthy competitor and if available I would choose it over toluene for one simple reason:

xylene flashpoint: 82 degrees fahrenheit MSDS: http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a63/m31225.htm

toluene flashpoint: 35 degrees fahrenheit MSDS: http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a62/m30577.htm

It is less volatile with a comparable blending octane (ie. more safer "shake and bake") but pure toluene is cheaper and readily available...

"THAT JUST HAPPENED" -Ricky Bobby (the guy with two first names...)

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

However, don't you have to add a lubricant to xylene in order for it to work properly and not chew away your fuel system.

[nadroj81]

When I called my local Sherwin Williams store they told me that they could get a hold of the 55 gal containers, and then proceeded to ask me: Do you have a pickup truck?

Might as well just buy race gas. Make the same octane with 93 and toluene and 93 and Race gas and you will notice the 93+Race performs better.

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

The thing for me is that I could find 100ll Avgas easily @ 3 miles (Avgas its not the best for cars) 4 to 5 $ a gallon, Toluene at 4 to 5 miles, the closest Vp racing fuels its exactly 22 miles away, and C16 comes at a hefty price. ( the closest track is at 76 miles)

[Andrew A4]

There is an additive that actually does work as well. It's called ACES IV. We proved its worth on a dyno running a big turbo WRX with straight 91 octane programming and then 91 octane fuel with the ACES IV additive to boost it to 100 octane while running the 100 octane map. Then in addition, we did a third dyno comparison running pure 100 octane VP Race Fuel.

.... no difference between the performance of the VP 100 and the ACES IV additive. while both running 100 octane maps.

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

where could I get a hold of some ACES IV?

[allcool]

The thing for me is that I could find 100ll Avgas easily @ 3 miles (Avgas its not the best for cars) 4 to 5 $ a gallon, Toluene at 4 to 5 miles, the closest Vp racing fuels its exactly 22 miles away, and C16 comes at a hefty price. ( the closest track is at 76 miles)

There is a VP gas station in Fort Lauderdale on Andrews Ave north of Commercial blvd. Your sig says Davie fl, can't be more than 10-15 miles from you.
I use it for my race engines, it is the best race gas around here.

If you want Cam 2 race gas there is a station up in Pompano, but they only have 110 leaded there.
Not recommended for your a4 even with a test pipe and no cat.
I think the 02 sensors wouldn't like the lead much, although the valves and valve seats sure would!

VP Race Fuels
3955 N Andrews Ave
Phone: 954-565-7670
Fax: 954-565-7696
[email protected]

They have at the pump 103 octane unleaded there, last fall iirr it was $5.85 gal.

VP unleaded race fuel from 100-109 octane are also available there.
Lots of leaded fuels also, up to 118 octane.
My favorite is VP-C12 ( 108 octane, 5 grams of lead per gal )
With VP-C12 my triple pipe gpr1200 engine on the dyno@ 237hp

You will make more HP from race fuel than a home brew.
You also can do without the hazardous mixing/fueling/transporting of highly volatile toxic toluene. Pull up to the pump at VP and fill her up.

Toluene is good if no other high octane solution is readily available to stop detonation.
jmho

allcool

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

I have not been to Vp fuels yet, and if I plug their address and mine in Google maps I get 19.1 miles or 31 minutes travel time.
I guess I will have give them a visit.
Still I would like to get a hold of some toluene, and I have to wait until Tuesday

My car runs fine with 93 and my water meth injection, but I want to boost the octane just for peace of mind.

[BenGieCruz]

where could I get a hold of some ACES IV?

http://www.bndautomotive.com/page/page/931789.htm

[errocha]

There's a gas station in my way to work that offers Race Fuel (100 oct) for $7.00/gal.

What mix would you guys use in order to get a 93 oct? I guess my tank has about 19 gal and currently I use 16.5gal on 91oct and 2.5gal of 100oct.

[Andrew A4]

^^^^ Where in SoCal are you? I stopped off at a 76 station today in Fullerton on Commonwealth just east of Magnolia and they had 100 octane at the pump for $4.99 a gallon.

I filled my tank to the rim and used my cruise control button to switch to my 100 octane race map and WOW what a difference there was over the 91 octane chipped map!!! I'm loving it!

[VMRWheels]

Another thing...

Toluene is 114 octane with a flash point of 35deg as mentioned above
however...
Xylene is 118 octane with a flash point of 82deg...

Xylene around SoCal is about $7/gal I think... quite pricey if you ask me...

[MylesPH]

^^^^ Where in SoCal are you? I stopped off at a 76 station today in Fullerton on Commonwealth just east of Magnolia and they had 100 octane at the pump for $4.99 a gallon.

$4.99 a gallon?!?!?! I've been using the 76 on Pico and Barrington near Culver City, but they charge $8.49 a gallon for pump 100!!! I still thought it was a bargain, and convenient compared to dealing with toulene jugs, but I can't believe they charge almost double for the same product...
This has been the difference for my car, though. 2.5 gallons of 100 on top of Shell V-max 91, and the car has been very consistent in its power delivery, even early last week during the heat wave - the car is amazing right now with the 35 degree temps at night..

[INTEGRATION]

Just be careful using this stuff, remember that the common explosive, "TNT" stands for Trinitrotoluene. :)

[Andrew A4]

$4.99 a gallon?!?!?! I've been using the 76 on Pico and Barrington near Culver City, but they charge $8.49 a gallon for pump 100!!! I still thought it was a bargain, and convenient compared to dealing with toulene jugs, but I can't believe they charge almost double for the same product...
This has been the difference for my car, though. 2.5 gallons of 100 on top of Shell V-max 91, and the car has been very consistent in its power delivery, even early last week during the heat wave - the car is amazing right now with the 35 degree temps at night..

There is also a 76 out off the 101 at Canwood I believe is the exit. Its not too far from the 405 and 101 if you make are ever out in the area. I paid $5.60/gallon for 100 octane at the pump there.

I think there is another 76 in Torrance, CA which is relatively cheap, just under $6.00 but i don't know where it is.

[SANS RICE]

Just be careful using this stuff, remember that the common explosive, "TNT" stands for Trinitrotoluene. :)

annnnnnnd where are you getting the nitrite - NO2 (not nitrous oxide N2O) groups to convert straight toluene to TNT?

I understand that toluene is extremely volatile but come on thats like saying water will react the same as hydrogen peroxide (H2O vs. H2O2)

toluene is basically benzene with a methyl group attached to a single carbon in the ring.

and TNT has three NO2 groups in addition to the methyl group on the same benzene ring...

[jimmyrecluse]

$4.99 a gallon?!?!?! I've been using the 76 on Pico and Barrington near Culver City, but they charge $8.49 a gallon for pump 100!!! I still thought it was a bargain, and convenient compared to dealing with toulene jugs, but I can't believe they charge almost double for the same product...
This has been the difference for my car, though. 2.5 gallons of 100 on top of Shell V-max 91, and the car has been very consistent in its power delivery, even early last week during the heat wave - the car is amazing right now with the 35 degree temps at night..

That west la station is expensive even for 91.

[VMRWheels]

just go order yourselves a nice 55gal drum og gt105 or something like that from VP... :-)

[F16HTON]

VP MS 109...I always have a 54 gallon drum in the garage. Costs about $400 after taxes.

[Andrew A4]

VP MS 109...I always have a 54 gallon drum in the garage. Costs about $400 after taxes.

Thats $7.41/gallon. Working out the math, it costs more per gallon to go that route than it does for me to go fill up @ $4.99/gallon for 100 octane locally. :)


I'm not sure if the savings are truly there by buying that large volume of fuel especially considering the implications of a house fire or other accident where your 54 gallon drum may level your house and a few neighbors places all at once. :)

I don't even think it's legal to store that quantity of fuel without a special permit here in California at a residential location.

[mrponline]

Difference is the VP MS109 is 109 Octane and a superior racing fuel. For a fair comparison when mixed with 93 1:1 you get 100 Octane thus $3.70 / gallon.

The storage issue i wouldnt really worry about as long as you use common sense and keep it in a cool and ventilated area you wont have any problems. Just like with any other flammable liquid / gas kept in a domestic house hold (Lawnmower fuel, BBQ propane tank etc.)

[Andrew A4]

^^^ 91 octane fuel here in Kalifornia is about $3.00/gallon USD for brands like 76.