3D Printed Intake Manifold

[chackalucka]

Finally got around again to the 3d printed intake manifold. This has been 2.5 years in the making.
This is from what I am aware the first time a plastic 3d printed intake manifold has been driven in the world on the road for the b5. I know Modsport in Portugal is also doing one but have only seen them trying to idle their car and it's a lot taller.
Info:
1. I was under a bit of time pressure but the manifold held 7psi fine, with some air leaks from the injector bosses splitting and only being able to run 7psi because I hooked up the diverter valves wrong and forgot to plug in the IAT sensor. Injector bosses will be beefed up.
2. This plastic is ASA and really at its temperature limit, but still runnable for the short term and mainly to get fitment right with it needing some mild touch-ups.
3. This is a Blake Beadle etspec stage 1 tune on this car but looking at doing further testing and design this thing to hold 40-50psi. I've managed to test a printed cube 5mm thick that held 75psi.
4. A new printing method called bricklayers is now available and this will drastically increase pressure holding and sealing capabilities IMO.
5. I will at this stage most likely use CF polycarbonate for the final product but have CF polypropylene that I will try first. If that's not enough we will move onto CF nylon.
6. I've made adapters to funnel the 2.8 runners to 2.7 for this test.

There is way more testing to do and will take this to the 17psi next week when I get back from work.
If there is anyone wanting to help will testing I the future let me know.

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[Matthewest91]

Fucking rad!
I like the shape


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[Matthewest91]

I’m getting ready to send my block to the machine shop for a bw rs6 car. Not sure how I could help. But I might be interested


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[travis_w]

Do you really think this will hold with heat cycles and boost levels at 30+.

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[CELison]

Was the volume of your 5mm thick cube the same as or close to the volume of this manifold?

[chackalucka]

Fucking rad!
I like the shape


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Thanks man, I call it the toad

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[chackalucka]

I’m getting ready to send my block to the machine shop for a bw rs6 car. Not sure how I could help. But I might be interested


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That's good, I like the interest, I'm still a whiles away I think from really putting it out there but we are getting there

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[chackalucka]

Do you really think this will hold with heat cycles and boost levels at 30+.

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I am pretty confident, but without really testing it it's hard to know where the safe limit is for constant cycles. All new cars now have plastic manifolds and can hold a lot of boost, and the 3d printing plastics just keep getting better.

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[chackalucka]

Was the volume of your 5mm thick cube the same as or close to the volume of this manifold?

It was smaller but I did make it a rectangular box, I was mainly seeing the difference in pressure when I started adding fillets and ribs. It started at 40psi without them.

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[CELison]

You could print another with all the ports, runners, ect closed off with the same wall thickness you currently have with an air quick connect fitting. F=PA and you have a lot of area for sure. It would be interesting to see what that manifold can actually handle. I’ve been playing around with 3D printing for a bit and I would be shoked if that can see 45+ psi without letting go, but hey, maybe. Have you done any FEA?

[chackalucka]

You could print another with all the ports, runners, ect closed off with the same wall thickness you currently have with an air quick connect fitting. F=PA and you have a lot of area for sure. It would be interesting to see what that manifold can actually handle. I’ve been playing around with 3D printing for a bit and I would be shoked if that can see 45+ psi without letting go, but hey, maybe. Have you done any FEA?

I have planned to try that at some point, once I get it completely ready and have selected what material I will be using and maybe after a few sales. I would be stoked if 30psi reliably is what it can hold, anything more than that I think is just great. I haven't done any FAE as I don't have the resources.

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[LJS]

The engineer has a suggestion-
before you try real world testing try the following-
bake your manifold in an oven at 165F, pull out and pressure test to failure... this should point out deficient areas where material strength needs to be addressed.
My gut says you should be shooting for 60PSI.
Once you passed this test then proceed to your real world testing...
I would test with the injectors and fuel rail in place and the other ports closed off---make a base from wood, with a laminate top, using thread inserts for bolting down the manifold.
This will test the both the ultimate strength of the design as well as the effectiveness of the gasketing areas.

[xRenesis]

Continuing off LJS, it would be good to go beat the car for a bit and temp gun the heads and get temp readings every few minutes after sitting with the oem intake. I'd suspect you're going to get pretty hot and on your runner adapters, the heat may localize on those edges and warp them.

[crsracing]

I absolutely love this, way to many people underestimate 3d printing and how far it has come. You will be really close to the glass transition temp if you used nylon. You may want to look in the newer pps-cf filaments but you need a hot end that goes 350°c

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[chackalucka]

She holds 20psi!

Had it on the car for 2 days and drove around 150kms, I sealed the flanges with silicone to keep them down and not warp. I drove the car hard for those 2 days and it held up well just started leaking after the few heat soaks.
Intake temps were at 70C with stage 1.
Onto the next steps.

https://youtu.be/7S14q5VXiKg?si=sAOMndihi-l233Is

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[chackalucka]

Continuing off LJS, it would be good to go beat the car for a bit and temp gun the heads and get temp readings every few minutes after sitting with the oem intake. I'd suspect you're going to get pretty hot and on your runner adapters, the heat may localize on those edges and warp them.

I did get this data actually, with stock and plastic. Flange temps just after running hard were 55-70C, and equalised at about 80-90C after 10mins.
The manifold itself stock was 80C after heat soaked and plastic was 40-50C after heat soaked.

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[chackalucka]

I absolutely love this, way to many people underestimate 3d printing and how far it has come. You will be really close to the glass transition temp if you used nylon. You may want to look in the newer pps-cf filaments but you need a hot end that goes 350°c

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It's going in leaps and bounds really, trying to keep up can be difficult

I've been doing more research and found PPA CF that is quite affordable locally. I'm still leaving my options over but trying to keep cost and performance balanced.

My problem with nylon is water absorption and creep over time. PC CF is also promising. Either way I got lots of testing to do.

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[chackalucka]

The engineer has a suggestion-
before you try real world testing try the following-
bake your manifold in an oven at 165F, pull out and pressure test to failure... this should point out deficient areas where material strength needs to be addressed.
My gut says you should be shooting for 60PSI.
Once you passed this test then proceed to your real world testing...
I would test with the injectors and fuel rail in place and the other ports closed off---make a base from wood, with a laminate top, using thread inserts for bolting down the manifold.
This will test the both the ultimate strength of the design as well as the effectiveness of the gasketing areas.

I have had a similar idea with filling it with boiling water and pressure testing it. I do like the bench idea, maybe I can print a blank for both side as a one piece.
I ran that manifold again and made 20psi with not leaks till a few heat cycles warped it, so pretty happy with that.
I agree 60psi should be a good benchmark for what I'm aiming for.

Thanks for your feed back.

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[crsracing]

I don't know how big of a water absorbtion problem you would actually have every time it heat cycled it would be like a trip through the dryer have you read about annealing at all ? Would probably have to be bolted to a fixture to keep from warping during the process.

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[chackalucka]

I don't know how big of a water absorbtion problem you would actually have every time it heat cycled it would be like a trip through the dryer have you read about annealing at all ? Would probably have to be bolted to a fixture to keep from warping during the process.

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From what I've seen, not too much gain with annealing with PPA-CF. But pa6 and pa12 do absorb water and it can weaken the bonds like over night, and then takes hours to dry out it.

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[q20v]

Just sharing some of my experience with ASA under the hood, I 3D printed a MAF housing and wrapped it in foil to isolate it from the heat. I probably have about 10k KM using it and finally removed it to inspect. It's collapsing around the outlet from the RS4 accordion / hose clamp pressure. Going to a fiber reinforced material like you suggested might yield better results.

What's the print time on that manifold? 3 months?? haha JK. I thought my MAF took forever, I can't imagine a manifold.

For injector seats or other sealing interfaces (IAT) that require O-Rings, have you considered machining out the bore and gluing in aluminum inserts? Or even, 3D printed inserts but taking advantage of the better print orientation. I did this for the MAF sensor in my housing, because printing upright created a slightly oval hole with poor surface finish (and spliting like you experienced).

[q20v]

Here is what the MAF housing looked like (you can see the insert I’m talking about)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHVQWSqp...RoZ3YyZW15ZA==

[chackalucka]

Just sharing some of my experience with ASA under the hood, I 3D printed a MAF housing and wrapped it in foil to isolate it from the heat. I probably have about 10k KM using it and finally removed it to inspect. It's collapsing around the outlet from the RS4 accordion / hose clamp pressure. Going to a fiber reinforced material like you suggested might yield better results.

What's the print time on that manifold? 3 months?? haha JK. I thought my MAF took forever, I can't imagine a manifold.

For injector seats or other sealing interfaces (IAT) that require O-Rings, have you considered machining out the bore and gluing in aluminum inserts? Or even, 3D printed inserts but taking advantage of the better print orientation. I did this for the MAF sensor in my housing, because printing upright created a slightly oval hole with poor surface finish (and spliting like you experienced).

Yeah ASA even though it can hold in engine bays it's just starts to move under any form of pressure.

I do like the idea of printing inserts in the correct orientation, I've for now just beefed up the design and i do print it undersized so I can drill it to size. It'll leave enough meat for people to drill and set some inserts, if I can keep post processing down I can keep the costs lower.

Hahaha on my ender 3, 7 days on my voron 2.4 2 days . I know what's the next printer I'm getting.

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[chackalucka]

Here is what the MAF housing looked like (you can see the insert I’m talking about)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHVQWSqp...RoZ3YyZW15ZA==

That's a hell nice design, I gave you a follow also

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