New Tariffs On Auto Imports

[Crowlski]

The Trump administration announced a 25% tariff on all "finished automobiles" coming overseas starting April 2. This does not affect auto parts.
From what I've read, Audi announced last week they could do a number of things to counter the higher costs and one was leverage the VW plant located in the USA to build its bread and butter Q5. Not sure how or what they will do on the RS segment. Let's hope the Euro and Asian automakers follow Hyundai and pledge to invest more in the US.

Before we all reply to this, let's please keep it civil, keep political opinions to yourself and focus on the affect on our cars.

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[IanCH]

Id expect a somewhat gradual increase in prices, bmw did 4% increases for the Mexico cars starting on cars produced after may 1st, but another bump will come in a few more months.

Expect all import auto prices to rise 10-15% through the end of the year if the tariffs stay in place, with some exceptions where companies find creative short term solutions.

[Crowlski]

Id expect a somewhat gradual increase in prices, bmw did 4% increases for the Mexico cars starting on cars produced after may 1st, but another bump will come in a few more months.

Expect all import auto prices to rise 10-15% through the end of the year if the tariffs stay in place, with some exceptions where companies find creative short term solutions.

True. I think co cars won't be included in my opinion. My guess is the bigger sellers will get hit first but that just me

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[Classy]

Soo what's my napkin math on the rs3 I just ordered? Let's say msrp is $64k. X25%? Bringing it up to a nice round $80k? +tax, doc fees, etc?
Yeah... might have to back out of this one.. :/
Been on a wait list for 13mths now.

[S3DUDE]

Funny thing, I just finished discussing this topic with my wife just now before she went to sleep 30 minutes ago. I am a news nerd, I watch it all, I also lived decades in Europe and decades in the USA so I can see the perspective from each side. I am completely unbiased when it comes to politics but in summary I know exactly what Trump is trying to do. He identified a problem which happens to be completely overseen for decades and unfortunately he is trying to fix it in one single step instead of gradually.

Here is the issue, America makes 25% of the stuff globally, it produces and it generates absolutely everything that you can imagine and it exports a lot of stuff but ours products (I am speaking as an american now) are being taxed exceptionally high compared to the items that we import. We don't noticed as americans because we "buy cheap" but our products(not all of them) are not fairly priced outside of the USA and consequently we are in a trade market disavantage.

We can argue that a Chevrolet Silverado 6.2 extra cab and 6'5" bed might not be ideal for the European market because of fuel consumption and size but that is a different topic, what Trump is saying is that our products gets taxed very high.

Back to how this could affect the market and us (the americans). Here are the possible scenarios:

Option 1) The prices of the imports will be more expensive. The real losers will be the average american trying to buy the import brand which now mostlikely have a higher price.
Option 2) The car import dealers are between the sword and the wall. If they get hit with higher tariffs on import cars (Toyota VW, etc) they might opt for higher sales price strategy to compensate. The end result will be that now the consumer (american) instead of buying a Porsche now would want a Corvette and instead of a SQ5 now will look into a Chevrolet Tahoe.
Option 3) The import car dealer would have to now (maybe) lower the price and cut on their profits because other wise the cars will be sitting at the car dealer lots. Most of car dealers have a line of credit on their inventory and after 90 days you are burying yourself with accrued interest so the cars needs to be sold or discounted. The dealer would be the looser
Option 4) The American car industry suppose to bounce back. Incentives for buying american cars, more production here in the USA, moe jobs, better deals and eventually foreign car manufacturers would have to yield to their prices because at the end of the day USA car market is 20% globally (huge)!!

We don't know what is going to happen but either way the average american might just hold on into buying cars and see what gives. Companies like Alfa Romeo are already out and clearing their entire inventory. A quadraflogio are discounted $20000 right now. On the same note some american trucks are absurdly expensive, $80000-$90000 in some trims.


In summary, always remember the boomerang effect. Trump is doing all of this I want to say in good faith but his head is not in the shoulders on this topic, he is doing it with his heart but not thinking of the consequences. Elon Musk is a dude with conflict of interest on this affair, his decisions can also fireback against his car company. By the way, I never voted in my life, I don't want to vote, I totally stay away from political crap, I like and dislike many things of both parties.

[StrongOnline007]

Funny thing, I just finished discussing this topic with my wife just now before she went to sleep 30 minutes ago. I am a news nerd, I watch it all, I also lived decades in Europe and decades in the USA so I can see the perspective from each side. I am completely unbiased when it comes to politics but in summary I know exactly what Trump is trying to do. He identified a problem which happens to be completely overseen for decades and unfortunately he is trying to fix it in one single step instead of gradually.

Here is the issue, America makes 25% of the stuff globally, it produces and it generates absolutely everything that you can imagine and it exports a lot of stuff but ours products (I am speaking as an american now) are being taxed exceptionally high compared to the items that we import. We don't noticed as americans because we "buy cheap" but our products(not all of them) are not fairly priced outside of the USA and consequently we are in a trade market disavantage.

We can argue that a Chevrolet Silverado 6.2 extra cab and 6'5" bed might not be ideal for the European market because of fuel consumption and size but that is a different topic, what Trump is saying is that our products gets taxed very high.

Back to how this could affect the market and us (the americans). Here are the possible scenarios:

Option 1) The prices of the imports will be more expensive. The real losers will be the average american trying to buy the import brand which now mostlikely have a higher price.
Option 2) The car import dealers are between the sword and the wall. If they get hit with higher tariffs on import cars(Toyota VW, etc) they might opt for higher sales price startegy to compensate. The end rsult will be that now the consumer(american) instead of buyimng a Porsche now would want a Corvette and instead of a SQ5 now will look into a Chevrolet Tahoe.
Option 3) The import car dealer would have to now (maybe) lower the price and cut on their profits because other wise the cars will be sitting at the car dealer lots. Most of car dealers have a line of credit on their inventory and after 90 days you are burying yourself with accrued interest so the cars needs to be sold or discounted. The dealer would be the looser
Option 4) The American car industry suppose to bounce back. Incentives for buying american cars, more production here in the USA, moe jobs, better deals and eventually foreign car manufacturers would have to yield to their prices because at the end of the day USA car market is 20% globally (huge)!!

We don't know what is going to happen but either way the average american might just hold on into buying cars and see what gives. Companies like Alfa Romeo are already out and clearing their entire inventory. A quadraflogio are discounted $20000 right now. On the same note some american trucks are absurdly expensive, $80000-$90000 in some trims.


In summary, always remember the boomerang effect. Trump is doing all of this I want to say in good faith but his head is not in the shoulders on this topic, he is doing it with his heart but not thinking of the consequences. Elon Musk is a dude with conflict of interest on this affair, his decisions can also fireback against his car company. By the way, I never voted in my life, I don't want to vote, I totally stay away from political crap, I like and dislike many things of both parties.

It's option 1. Not only that, American companies will also sell less in other countries now because of 1) likely reciprocal tariffs and 2) lessened demand due to anti-US sentiment because the US is being antagonistic to its (primarily wealthy!) allies for no good reason. Basically Trump is setting out not only to destroy the US consumer but also US manufacturers who have a global audience. And US manufacturers will increasingly need a global audience because Trump is lessening the buying power of US citizens. This is why any reputable economist has been screaming for months about how moronic this whole thing is.

Speaking specifically to cars, American cars are already mostly awful and will only get worse without meaningful competition. They'll also likely get more expensive.

[S3DUDE]

It's option 1. Not only that, American companies will also sell less in other countries now because of 1) likely reciprocal tariffs and 2) lessened demand due to anti-US sentiment because the US is being antagonistic to its (primarily wealthy!) allies for no good reason. Basically Trump is setting out not only to destroy the US consumer but also US manufacturers who have a global audience. And US manufacturers will increasingly need a global audience because Trump is lessening the buying power of US citizens. This is why any reputable economist has been screaming for months about how moronic this whole thing is.

Speaking specifically to cars, American cars are already mostly awful and will only get worse without meaningful competition. They'll also likely get more expensive.

I wholeheardtedly concur with with what you said and I actually saw this coming. We just created the perfect storm and a bad one too. Between the foreign policies and the war and other comments that has been said (taking Greenland, Panama, Canada,gaza) it doesn't help at all. That sentiment is going to cost us big time for a long time. fortunately America is a monster when it comes to technology, manufacturing and making anything. We will have a decent domestic market but still, we have earned a lot of enemosity very quick and a lot of foreign countries are totally ready for a trade war. Canada already banned Tesla.

This is going to be a incredibly sensitive situation. If someone wants to buy a car they better do it absolutely now before proces go crazy. Even Trump said: "is going to be rough initially but will settle down in the long term". We just don't know how this will end. Tesla already plumetted in Europe and China. China is making the BYD electric car stupid cheap for masses and that is going to take a big dent on Tesla.

Also, remember what I said, many american trucks(the bread and butter of our car industry) are very expensive even in our own land. Someone has to give. We have thousands of trucks sitting on parking lots unsold and the dealers will have to cut the prices or the government would have to bail them out like they did to the big 3 in 2008. Jeep can disappear like Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Saturn did, they can't sell for $hit.

[S3DUDE]

For instance, South Korea was begging Trump and the goverment to not apply the tariffs as it would have colossal consecuences on their economy. We are a huge South Korean car buyer and have a big impact on their market/stock market. I really don't want a tariff war that abruptly but the problem is that foreign countries are also positioning themselves in a similar strategy of reciprocal tariff so the "desired effect" that we want is actually causing the opposite.

[StrongOnline007]

Empires end all the time and often for dumb reasons. I’m not saying this is what will happen to the US now, but I don’t think we can count on our past resilience and current advantages in tech (manufacturing is not an advantage compared to many countries) when even our own government is trying to foil us — not to mentions foreign adversaries.

[Jetdriver]

Well... I am glad every car in my family will last at least the next 3.7 years. The used car market is going to get about as wild, if not more, than it was after COVID.

[IanCH]

Soo what's my napkin math on the rs3 I just ordered? Let's say msrp is $64k. X25%? Bringing it up to a nice round $80k? +tax, doc fees, etc?
Yeah... might have to back out of this one.. :/
Been on a wait list for 13mths now.

That's why I said 10-15% increase.

The 25% is levied on the import cost or what audi usa pays audi gmbh for the car. Your RS3 is something like 40-50k in production price.

[IanCH]

Well... I am glad every car in my family will last at least the next 3.7 years. The used car market is going to get about as wild, if not more, than it was after COVID.

The silver lining to this new pronouncement is that the tariffs on parts aspect of this should disappear. Not saying materials tariffs won't still drives parts cost up, but we shouldn't be seeing new parts shortages like we were going to.

We might see the rise of dealer installed options on this policy. There's LOTs of options on cars that dealers can easily install and the tariff being on finished cars means cost cutting on the price of cars and offering retrofit of trim/feature improvements.

[mqbhskr]

The other thing everyone should keep in mind is that prices will go up for more than just the cars directly affected by tariffs.

• Some automakers will choose to spread out the increase strategically across their lineups, not directly according to the tariff impact on that car specifically, but rather according to their ability (or lack thereof) to push higher pricing on each car given its competitiveness in, and the profitability of, that particular segment.
  
• When the tariffs cause prices to rise on specific cars, the competing automakers NOT affected by tariffs will still raise their prices in order to reap additional profits while still being similar in price to their now-more-expensive-due-to-tariffs competition.

[Crowlski]

Soo what's my napkin math on the rs3 I just ordered? Let's say msrp is $64k. X25%? Bringing it up to a nice round $80k? +tax, doc fees, etc?
Yeah... might have to back out of this one.. :/
Been on a wait list for 13mths now.

I don't think you'll feel the full 25% on current orders but my thought is the longer the wait for delivery that goes well into Summer and beyond then the greater chance the tariff hits at a higher rate.

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[Crowlski]

It's option 1. Not only that, American companies will also sell less in other countries now because of 1) likely reciprocal tariffs and 2) lessened demand due to anti-US sentiment because the US is being antagonistic to its (primarily wealthy!) allies for no good reason. Basically Trump is setting out not only to destroy the US consumer but also US manufacturers who have a global audience. And US manufacturers will increasingly need a global audience because Trump is lessening the buying power of US citizens. This is why any reputable economist has been screaming for months about how moronic this whole thing is.

Speaking specifically to cars, American cars are already mostly awful and will only get worse without meaningful competition. They'll also likely get more expensive.

Well I don't think the hysteria is going to be like you suggest. And there are economists who agree with the tariffs. Bob Lightizer for one. Now Trump did say that there will be some disruption in the short term but over the long run its better for the US. Keep in mind, we had tariffs in his first term. How'd that pan out? One of the best economies in American history.

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[Heat00]

this will be interesting to see how it plays out. I mean, I get it in theory I understand... why should we import (as example) German car with 2% tariff but sending our dodge charger to sell in germany gets taxed 25% lol... I Imagine this is just a negotiation and hopefully in the end it benefits our country..

but I have a lot of questions lol... as example dodge was building cars in mexico and canada, and on the flip side BMW has an 8M SF plant in South carloina making 1500 cars per day including parts and employing over 10,000 americans lol... this to me seems to confuse the matter some

so if a new RS3 goes up by 10k, what happens to the one I'm holding? I assume it goes up a lot too? hard to predict what will happen as we don't know if Trump does something tomorrow that changes it or if these other countries will give and relieve the tariffs on incoming USA products?

meanwhile my wife's volvo lease is almost up and she wants a bmw suv... I almost think its worth paying off early I think I have 4k left if I could grab a new BMW today and save 10-15k? LOL... it's hard to ever win in the car arena is the truth lol....

and as mentioned above, at least my m2 and rs3 are fairly new, hopefully enough to ride this out until it gets corrected, if it gets corrected.... the problem is me, I use it for work and business and tons of miles so I typically swap out before warranty is over which is usually just less than 2 years. my 24 rs3 bought in september has 18.5k on it... I'm doomed. maybe my beloved charger will get it's 392 or even a 426 hemi, made here with no tariffs in time for my next swap hahah problem solved!

[Crowlski]

this will be interesting to see how it plays out. I mean, I get it in theory I understand... why should we import (as example) German car with 2% tariff but sending our dodge charger to sell in germany gets taxed 25% lol... I Imagine this is just a negotiation and hopefully in the end it benefits our country..

but I have a lot of questions lol... as example dodge was building cars in mexico and canada, and on the flip side BMW has an 8M SF plant in South carloina making 1500 cars per day including parts and employing over 10,000 americans lol... this to me seems to confuse the matter some

so if a new RS3 goes up by 10k, what happens to the one I'm holding? I assume it goes up a lot too? hard to predict what will happen as we don't know if Trump does something tomorrow that changes it or if these other countries will give and relieve the tariffs on incoming USA products?

meanwhile my wife's volvo lease is almost up and she wants a bmw suv... I almost think its worth paying off early I think I have 4k left if I could grab a new BMW today and save 10-15k? LOL... it's hard to ever win in the car arena is the truth lol....

and as mentioned above, at least my m2 and rs3 are fairly new, hopefully enough to ride this out until it gets corrected, if it gets corrected.... the problem is me, I use it for work and business and tons of miles so I typically swap out before warranty is over which is usually just less than 2 years. my 24 rs3 bought in september has 18.5k on it... I'm doomed. maybe my beloved charger will get it's 392 or even a 426 hemi, made here with no tariffs in time for my next swap hahah problem solved!

Completely. It's a bargaining strategy. It's already showed positive results where we have had a number of businesses foreign and domestic pledge over 1T in investments here. Both Audi, BMW and the Asian automakers are contemplating doing more here in the US. It's bound to happen and I'll be honest I really doubt anyone will feel these new tariffs at all.

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[grandpab]

I think this is gonna play out differently than it did last time. The last time he added tariffs the economy was a lot stronger and people were spending more money. Right now people are spending less money and dealerships especially are pretty slow. This isn't going to help anyone already hesitant to spend a lot of money, and from what I'm seeing in my area there's a lot of those people right now. I'll admit I'm one of them. I've got a few things I'd like to have done to my car, and I was so close to calling my shop and setting up an appointment. I'm just not comfortable doing that right now with how slow work has been. The last few months have been some of the worst I've seen in the last 12 years. I guess it's possible if this pushes people away from buying cars and they look somewhere else to spend their money where they won't see any tariff charges that maybe this will help my families business, but that's a big maybe.

[S3DUDE]

I know one brand that will have to pull its pants down to their ankles and that is Porsche. Look on JD powers , Edmunds or other reputable car industry sources/news and you will see that Porsche is the one that profits the most on options/accesories. Any Porsche has the largest margin of profit/benefit but some models even more, I know that they still have their niche clientele with specific high demand but I think that they are going to have to eat some of that cost.
I helped my brother in law buying a new Silverado, we scooped it for $9000 off the MSRP and it was a middle optioned Silverado with a MSRP of $53K. Jim Click (Car dealer chain here in Tucson) has 20% on their previous year Dodge Rams and that was before Trump came up with the Tariff or even before he was the president. Yes, I get it, Dodge is built in America, and Chevrolet is also an american brand and they are top truck sellers here in the USA but what I am saying is there is tons of margin of profit in some vehicles. I think that brands like Porsche better bring their prices down or their cars will be full of dust at the dealerships.

[S3DUDE]

Also, lets refresh some buying tactics and get some 101 facts here and now:

1) Paying above MSRP. You should never have to pay above MSRP. If you are paying above MSRP is because the car is a limited production
2) Paying at MSRP. Not your ideal purchased but sometimes is due to low production
3) Paying between MSPR and invoice. This is where everyone should be in (military discounts, costco, USAA, new graduate student,Manufacturer incentives, a little bit of negotiating, a particular car sitting in the lot for too long due to trim, color, options, etc)
4) Paying at invoice. You score, that is a great value but hard to buy at invoice
5) Buying below Invoice this is absolutely your best strategy but very rare to be able to do this since the dealer doesn't make much profit
6) Buying at hold back or employee discount. This is exceptionally rare. You will see this in times of mayor crisis like the crisis of 2008 or when a dealer is going to go bankrupt and they are flushing their inventory. Normally is also backed by goverment. Brands going out of business or leaving the country(Alfa Romeo right now)

When you go to buy a car and you get a few thousands dollars off don't feel bad for the dealer, they get their cars at holdback price and they are still making their profit. You just have to be agressive with them and try at least 2-3 counter offers. Most people agree to a price because they are shy but car dealers are ruthless.

[Jetdriver]

Has anyone seen preemptive ADM'S popping up already just cuz?

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[S3DUDE]

Just watching DW news right now. 70Billion dollars on South korean exports and half of them to the USA. US being the biggest market by far. If you want to watch it on youtube on DW news the title is: South Korea, EU, Japan, others prepare response to Trump's 25% . You can pause the video at 3:05 and listen to the 70 billion dollar export data.

This is more than just tariffs, this is havoc. We are not prepared for this mess. You can't go from 0 to 60 just like that putting 25% and naively think that everyone is going to accept this deal. There will be market trade consequences(retaliation).

[StrongOnline007]

Completely. It's a bargaining strategy. It's already showed positive results where we have had a number of businesses foreign and domestic pledge over 1T in investments here. Both Audi, BMW and the Asian automakers are contemplating doing more here in the US. It's bound to happen and I'll be honest I really doubt anyone will feel these new tariffs at all.

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How did businesses pledging investment go in his first term? I can tell you: there was a lot pledged and barely anything built. That’s because business leaders know the president operates like a vindictive child and they want to appease him so he doesn’t throw a tantrum. But they also know that in four years we’ll have someone else running the country, likely on the platform of removing these oppressive tariffs. So it doesn’t make sense to invest billions in the short term. It’s easier to wait it out.

Saying no one will feel these tariffs is an unreal take and I will check back with you here in six months on that. Americans are already struggling and Trump is making everything more expensive all for the goal of “increasing American manufacturing” which does not make sense because American purchasing power is decreasing and at the same time foreign countries both do not want and are lessening their reliance on American goods due to his policies.

[bokiboki]

I'm not an expert and I'm not going to pretend that I know what'll happen here in the US in the comming months but I always wondered where can someone find information as to which country is imposing which tariffs (how much % wise) on US made goods. For example, I always knew that the prices of US and European cars in China are almost double what they cost here in the US or in Europe - does that mean that China is imposing like 100% tariffs on imported cars? If not 100%, which percentage?

Also, if Germany, France or UK for example, are imposing tariffs on US made goods/cars, how much are those tariffs? I tried looking things up on Google just now and wasn't able to find out much. I wish we knew the exact numbers or percentages for each product category so we could all be well informed about all this instead of just trusting the media or government entities claiming the percentages that might not be exactly correct. If for example, Germany is having 25% tariffs on imported US made vehicles, I have absolutely no problems with the US government imposing 25% tariffs on imported German vehicles.

And for all the talk about different coutries governments around the World (Saudi Arabia, South Korea and others) investing billions of dollars in US economy - yes, it's great news and very optimistic, but I'll believe it when I see it (not holding my breath though).

[MrFunk]

I spoke with my VW manager as I had an open line of communication with him. He said that any car they already had an allocation for and have been invoiced for already will not be subject to any price increases.

[LazyEvul]

I think if it starts to become apparent that this policy isn't changing, or that there aren't any easy workarounds, less popular foreign-made cars might be pulled from the US market altogether. The RS3 in particular I think is at risk for this - it's not very popular, likely has a relatively low profit margin, and uses an engine that isn't shared with any other US market car (which would make it more costly & complex to move manufacturing to the US, especially since it appears there will be separate tariffs for foreign-made engines now).

A 10-15% jump in price is going to turn a lot of customers away - how many of you are willing to spend 70k+ USD on an RS3 before any options? I'm guessing A3 & S3 buyers are generally even more price-sensitive. And I'm not sure there's a business case for establishing manufacturing in the US for the A3/S3/RS3. That's a long-term investment into a category of car that has been falling out of favour for years now, and in the short-term, the more popular & more profitable cars are going to take priority for any rapid solutions (i.e. leveraging the existing VW plant).

The only saving grace for Audi is that much of its competition will have the same problem, and that dealers will probably take advantage of the situation to hike prices on unaffected cars too - so their cars might not end up looking like such a bad deal, relatively speaking. It'll just be a matter of how many people are willing or able to spend the new, higher prices in an environment where plenty of other goods are going to get more expensive, too.

[IanCH]

I spoke with my VW manager as I had an open line of communication with him. He said that any car they already had an allocation for and have been invoiced for already will not be subject to any price increases.

I'd get that one in writing.

There's already been a bunch of discussion on this topic on BMW forums, and I would say the only way you can be sure there wont be price increases at delivery is if Audi announces to everyone that they will price protect the cars. That's what BMW did temporarily.

However, BMW builds $80bil of cars here in the US, whereas Audi builds zero.

[RudyH]

Canada already banned Tesla.

Canada didn't ban Tesla, they removed government subsidies for them.
If it wasn't owned by Elon Musk, likely wouldn't care as much. Funny how an American company gets government funding from Canada, but heaven forbid we tax all goods coming into the country from any country to help pay for that funding.

*** Edit
https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transpo...gible-vehicles
https://driving.ca/auto-news/industr...eeze-incentive
actually I think the program itself is on pause, regardless if Tesla or not. I was curious if Rivian was involved in it as well

tbh, Canada should drop EV tariffs on China cars from 100% to 50% as America increases theirs.
The whole tariffs and retaliatory tariffs only impact consumers that's all and simply cause inflation. Hopefully profits make their way into blue collar pockets, because that's what always happens right?

Anyway, invest wisely, and let Trump go crazy, don't stress too much about it. I am Canadian and I am not, but will enjoy my German built Audi lol

[Jetdriver]

Just watching DW news right now. 70Billion dollars on South korean exports and half of them to the USA. US being the biggest market by far. If you want to watch it on youtube on DW news the title is: South Korea, EU, Japan, others prepare response to Trump's 25% . You can pause the video at 3:05 and listen to the 70 billion dollar export data.

This is more than just tariffs, this is havoc. We are not prepared for this mess. You can't go from 0 to 60 just like that putting 25% and naively think that everyone is going to accept this deal. There will be market trade consequences(retaliation).

https://www.history.com/articles/tra...p-smoot-hawley

History is a very weak subject for a lot of politicians. This is the "Bull in a China Shop" mentality of dealing with global trade.

[Jetdriver]

How did businesses pledging investment go in his first term? I can tell you: there was a lot pledged and barely anything built. That’s because business leaders know the president operates like a vindictive child and they want to appease him so he doesn’t throw a tantrum. But they also know that in four years we’ll have someone else running the country, likely on the platform of removing these oppressive tariffs. So it doesn’t make sense to invest billions in the short term. It’s easier to wait it out.

Saying no one will feel these tariffs is an unreal take and I will check back with you here in six months on that. Americans are already struggling and Trump is making everything more expensive all for the goal of “increasing American manufacturing” which does not make sense because American purchasing power is decreasing and at the same time foreign countries both do not want and are lessening their reliance on American goods due to his policies.

Also, American manufacturing is too expensive due to the cost of living in the United States and the fact we have unions that drive high wages and expensive benefits. This is great for the workers, but the cost of the product goes up regardless of the quality. On top of that, other countries aren't interested in our product. "American Made" doesn't impress them.

[PassionForAudi]

Well I don't think the hysteria is going to be like you suggest. And there are economists who agree with the tariffs. Bob Lightizer for one. Now Trump did say that there will be some disruption in the short term but over the long run its better for the US. Keep in mind, we had tariffs in his first term. How'd that pan out? One of the best economies in American history.

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#Bang #This Exported U.S. products have been getting nailed with rhetorically bad tariffs for how long now?!?! All of a sudden when we finally get a dude to stand up and say “the fuck with this, I’m in charge or taking care of the people on our soil, not those abroad” all of a sudden these other countries literally “act” as if they haven’t been doing to us what we’re about to rebuttal them with, for decades now!


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[StrongOnline007]

#Bang #This Exported U.S. products have been getting nailed with rhetorically bad tariffs for how long now?!?! All of a sudden when we finally get a dude to stand up and say “the fuck with this, I’m in charge or taking care of the people on our soil, not those abroad” all of a sudden these other countries literally “act” as if they haven’t been doing to us what we’re about to rebuttal them with, for decades now!


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How is Trump taking care of the people on our soil? Tariffs are a tax on Americans. Tariffs are simultaneously decreasing demand for American-made goods.

You seem to think we're punching someone else when we're actually punching ourselves. It might be time to stop blindly accepting everything Trump says and do some of your own research. You could start with the link Jetdriver shared above: https://www.history.com/articles/tra...p-smoot-hawley

[PassionForAudi]

How is Trump taking care of the people on our soil? Tariffs are a tax on Americans. Tariffs are simultaneously decreasing demand for American-made goods.

You seem to think we're punching someone else when we're actually punching ourselves. It might be time to stop blindly accepting everything Trump says and do some of your own research. You could start with the link Jetdriver shared above: https://www.history.com/articles/tra...p-smoot-hawley

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, if there’s a sense that works really well on this end it’s “smell” and I CLEARLY smell the obvious with your comeback, there. SlOOOOw down, turbo, how about we just agree to disagree. Tariffs have been set by this dude once before and like my guy up above stated (fact), it led to the greatest economy in the history of this nation! #America1st and that’s all that there is to it… I’ll take an increase in a purchase of a F’N over the horrific last 4 years that we ALL had to deal with across the board and that’s NOT even debatable! Men lie, women lie, numbers will never pull off such a thing, my guy… Ever! You really think that Trump’s actually (financially) benefiting from this term in any way, shape or form??? Please stop… Dude ran simply because of how terribly Democrats have been running the show post the “good ol’” JFK days! He knows what he’s doing, you’ll be fine in EVERY financial field!


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[Heat00]

#Bang #This Exported U.S. products have been getting nailed with rhetorically bad tariffs for how long now?!?! All of a sudden when we finally get a dude to stand up and say “the fuck with this, I’m in charge or taking care of the people on our soil, not those abroad” all of a sudden these other countries literally “act” as if they haven’t been doing to us what we’re about to rebuttal them with, for decades now!


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exactly... these other countries have been nailing our cars being exported there, why shouldn't it be the same on their cars coming here? go buy the same dodge or chevy here and then go buy it in Canada today and look at the difference..its substantial...he's just fixing what was wrong to begin with? and many of our 'american' cars aren't even built here. dodge has been building in mexico and canada for some time now. meanwhile BMW is building like hotcakes in SC. just not sure they should be penalized as they are building here on our soil and dodge is building in mexico LOL... funny and ironic.. meanwhile they just announced they are bringing back the hemi v8 after the stupid decision to go EV and even their I6TT, no one wants either of them and the v8 now will be built in their Michigan plant... however I think that has to do with their mexico plant being set up rolling out useless I6TT motors... but who knows lol

in the long run, it should benefit us as our imported cars should have the same tariffs that our exported cars have to that same country. it might be pain for a bit but long term it should help. I suspect these countries will fix their tariffs on us which will ultimately fix the problem as it hurt them there more than it hurts our consumer here, I think... I'm no economist for sure... but this seems to makes sense in theory

[StrongOnline007]

I'm no economist for sure... but this seems to makes sense in theory

That's right. Have you considered reading what economists think about the tariffs? You may be surprised to learn that people with knowledge in this area disagree with you.

[StrongOnline007]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, if there’s a sense that works really well on this end it’s “smell” and I CLEARLY smell the obvious with your comeback, there. SlOOOOw down, turbo, how about we just agree to disagree. Tariffs have been set by this dude once before and like my guy up above stated (fact), it led to the greatest economy in the history of this nation! #America1st and that’s all that there is to it… I’ll take an increase in a purchase of a F’N over the horrific last 4 years that we ALL had to deal with across the board and that’s NOT even debatable! Men lie, women lie, numbers will never pull off such a thing, my guy… Ever! You really think that Trump’s actually (financially) benefiting from this term in any way, shape or form??? Please stop… Dude ran simply because of how terribly Democrats have been running the show post the “good ol’” JFK days! He knows what he’s doing, you’ll be fine in EVERY financial field!


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Can you source your claim that Trump had the greatest economy in the history of this nation? Because that is not true. Trump did OK his first term but unfortunately he now seems determined to sink the US for no reason.

[Jetdriver]

Can you source your claim that Trump had the greatest economy in the history of this nation? Because that is not true. Trump did OK his first term but unfortunately he now seems determined to sink the US for no reason.

Let's go one step further and have him explain what the "greatest economy of this nation!" actually means:

Donald Trump (2017-21)
GDP growth: 2.6%
Unemployment rate: 6.4%
Inflation rate: 1.4%
Poverty rate: 11.90%
Real disposable income per capita: $48,286

When looking at the numbers, Donald Trump is mostly better than average. Inflation was just 1.4% during his years, which is the second lowest. The poverty rate during his years also ties him with Ford for the second lowest on this list. GDP growth was also fourth highest for him. At over 6% though, unemployment was on the high end for him, putting him fifth highest in that category.

Joe Biden (2021-25)
GDP growth: 3.2%
Unemployment rate: 4.8%
Inflation rate: 5.0%
Poverty rate: 12.4%
Real disposable income per capita: $51,822

The pandemic and the associated financial impact stoked an inflationary economy that was the worst since the Carter era, but the unemployment rate under Biden is the fourth lowest on this list, and GDP growth is the second highest.

Now I was not the biggest Joe B. fan, but JB beat Trump's first term in GDP growth and unemployment rate. He didn't fall much behind in poverty rate despite a 5.0% inflation rate (pandemic) vs. 1.4%, but had a higher disposable income per capita than trump.

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/in...tic-presidents

I consider myself politically independent. I believe most all politicians are liars and will tell people what they want to hear to get votes, but please do your homework before you spout off claims that we had the greatest economy during Trump's first term. We did not. Are you going to argue the FACTS from the above link? Most discourse about politics and the economy is based on emotions and not readily available numbers. This is what can get the wrong person elected. During his first term, Trump claimed that with his tax cuts, the U.S. economy would grow "4, 5 maybe 6%". COVID excluded, it grew 2.67% while our deficit worsened. A president's power over the economy is extremely exaggerated.

[Crowlski]

How did businesses pledging investment go in his first term? I can tell you: there was a lot pledged and barely anything built. That’s because business leaders know the president operates like a vindictive child and they want to appease him so he doesn’t throw a tantrum. But they also know that in four years we’ll have someone else running the country, likely on the platform of removing these oppressive tariffs. So it doesn’t make sense to invest billions in the short term. It’s easier to wait it out.

Saying no one will feel these tariffs is an unreal take and I will check back with you here in six months on that. Americans are already struggling and Trump is making everything more expensive all for the goal of “increasing American manufacturing” which does not make sense because American purchasing power is decreasing and at the same time foreign countries both do not want and are lessening their reliance on American goods due to his policies.

feelings are not facts. I am a spreadsheet guy. I truly don't give a shit about the man in the Whitehouse as a person. I care about what this man will do for me and the country. That said, what you wrote and how the economy was in Trump's first term are two competing stories. I'll go with what history shows me and you can keep your sour feelings to yourself

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[Heat00]

That's right. Have you considered reading what economists think about the tariffs? You may be surprised to learn that people with knowledge in this area disagree with you.

Time will tell.

[Crowlski]

How is Trump taking care of the people on our soil? Tariffs are a tax on Americans. Tariffs are simultaneously decreasing demand for American-made goods.

You seem to think we're punching someone else when we're actually punching ourselves. It might be time to stop blindly accepting everything Trump says and do some of your own research. You could start with the link Jetdriver shared above: https://www.history.com/articles/tra...p-smoot-hawley

All due respect, I don't think you understand how tariffs work. And what's your solution? More Bidenomics? 21% inflation? CPI at all time highs? No thanks

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