RS5 Competition Suspension Upgrade - Real Cost & Value

[djmika]

I've owned my 2019 RS5 Sportback for 3 years. It has a late 2018 production date and about 27K miles on it. FWIW, I've been able to confirm that it does not have the potentially problematic older rocker arms. IMO, It's still the closest thing to a perfect daily-driver, go-fast sports sedan on the market. In looking at the complete package, The Sport suspension with DRC is THE glaring flaw.

This has been beaten to death. Owners with Sport suspension with DRC widely acknowledge it's generally subpar execution. I'm not starting this thread for people who like DRC to come debate. It's great that there are people who are happy with it. I, and many others aren't.

I've been looking into aftermarket options, basically since I bought the car. I've tried MSS HAS and now have the more widely used ABT HAS. ABT is a bit of a Band Aid but by no means, does it fix DRC. Since doing ABT HAS I've considered coilover kits including KW v3 and v4, ABT coilovers, Bilstein B16 and EVO T1, Ohlins Road & Track and now the OE Competition.

I've owned Bilstein B16 and KW v3 on a B8.5 S4. I was not happy with either. Given the fact that I can't "try before I buy" on the B9, I have to go on what I know. The B16 setup was generally poorly damped in the rear. The KW v3 setup introduced NVH levels that aren't acceptable to me. Ohlins spring rates are around twice those of the OE rates on the RS5. KW V4 is interesting but my NVH concern combined with the price has stopped me.

Earlier this week, I was able to take a 2024 Comp for a test drive. It's excellent. Firm where DRC is under damped, yet soaks up harsh stuff orders of magnitude better. I was close to just buying the car but for reasons unrelated to performance, I chose to stick with my car.

Before anyone says it, the Comp suspension is OE, manufactured for Audi by KW and based on the v4. But it is NOT a KW v4. There are clear differences if you look at the two side. I think it's also highly likely that all-important shock valving and spring rates are also different between the two. The OE Comp also importantly, appears to have more isolation built in that v4.

I'm now more seriously considering ordering the Comp suspension. In looking at options for sourcing the parts, there are some discrepancies.

From what I'm seeing, I don't think the four part numbers (shared below) that have been mentioned in this other thread(s) are complete assemblies as suggested. They appear to be only the shocks/struts to me. I think that in order to get the rest of the comp suspension, you'd have to piece the rest together. This makes sense of the $11K+ Europrice is charging.

Another reason I think this is true is, why would Audi parts stores sell what are effectively OE parts in a complete kit? These places sell repair/replacement parts for VIN matched cars. The parts are not initially intended for the aftermarket. In the case where a car is damaged, selling only as a kit would force shops to replace an entire assembly regardless of whether there are still good parts. Theoretically, if they needed to be able to replace parts, they'd only want to sell the specific part that needs to be replaced.

Furthermore, I'm now seeing the combined price for the four mentioned parts, BELOW the cost of the KW v4 kit. Considering the OE "premium," I think common sense would dictate this is unlikely. There are a bunch of online parts resellers who discount OE parts. One of the things they all seem to share in common is, they're pretty automated. Plug in a VIN and find matching parts. If that's all you want to do, great. But if you want a DIFFERENT OE part, you're in for trouble. Ask me how I know... Good luck finding a working phone number. Send an email and it seems you'll wait and possibly never get a response.

So I think Europrice offering the entire package as a kit for $10,998 is about right. I haven't yet found all of the parts, nor am I comfortable that they'll all be correct and accounted for. In attempting to piece things together, I'm close to $9K and I'm still missing parts. I think I could save a few hundred dollars vs. buying from Europrice. But I don't think I'll save thousands as I had originally hoped.

So, KW v4 is around $7100 and I think the complete OE Comp setup is going to be between $10K and $11,500. Neither price includes sway bars. The $4K+ difference is substantial.

I wanted to throw this out there for discussion as I know that the idea of upgrading to Comp suspension has been discussed in other threads. Here are the four part numbers with reasonable prices that I believe to be just shocks/struts and not the entire "kit." I welcome feedback or evidence to the contrary and the ongoing discussion as to whether this is worth doing.

8W0-412-021-AL – Front Left - $1616.14
8W0-412-022-AL – Front Right - $1840
8W0-513-021-AR – Rear Left - $1830.46
8W0-513-022-J – Rear Right - $1450.63

[Dr. Jekyll]

Thanks for the write up!

Have you emailed KW to see if they could detail the differences between the V4 and the OE Comp dampers / springs?

KW's press release for the V4 seems to indicate that the OE Comp and V4 are very similar (if not the same). https://www.kwsuspensions.net/audi_rs4_rs5

[B6_Dolphin]

I just wonder if you buy a salvage '23 & up RS5 w/Comp Pkg, and scavenge the suspension pieces, with the caveat that they weren't damaged in an accident...

https://www.copart.com/lot/47098845/...rs5-ga-augusta

Added bonus - the Comp wheels.

[djmika]

B6 - Man... There's a lot of damage to the front-passenger side of that car. I think it's highly likely there suspension is damaged. Also, that car is still $60K+. The one I found at Carmax last week was $76K for a car with under 1000 miles on it.

Dr. - I've spoken with KW about my car in the past, albeit before the Comp car came out. I suspect that there are very different "departments" within KW and I very much doubt that OE and aftermarket share info. I can see this being the proverbial rabbit hole. When I called, the specific questions about v3 and v4 I asked were not sufficiently answered. The guy I talked to just fed me the company line. Hence, a couple years later and I'm still researching without having pulled the trigger.

I don't think v4 and OE Comp are the same at all. I'd put money on spring rates and shock valving being tangibly different. I think Audi engineering would have provided their spec for KW OE to build the ones for the Comp car. Also, look at the diagrams for the Comp setup. It's on Europrice's website. The Comp springs have more isolation, top and bottom, than v3 or v4. Like any other OE setup. Suffice to say, there's a reason for this, less NVH. Conversely, I think it's implied that enthusiasts have different expectations for the aftermarket and I think it's highly likely that the v3 and v4 kits transmit more NVH into the chassis and cabin under the assumption that this is acceptable by aftermarket standards. This was my exact experience with the v3 setup on my B8.5 S4. Then there's spring rates to consider. The KW v4 kit have "helper" coils up front which sit fully compressed under the weight of the car. They're there to prevent the main spring from becoming unseated as the shock's extension exceeds that of the main spring. The OE Comp setup does not have helpers, suggesting a longer spring and subsequently softer rate. I admit that I have about enough knowledge to be dangerous. But shorter, stiffer springs likely also need dampers to be tuned accordingly. In the rear of the car, the KW v4 springs appear to be multi-rate (sometimes called progressive). The OE Comp rear springs are linear.

There are several reasons for the differences but I think there are two main considerations. Let's assume KW expect that the aftermarket will want to be able to lower the car more than Audi engineers have afforded buyers of the Comp car the capability to. Stiffer rates = shorter springs = helpers & multi-rate as a result. So again, I think the v4 springs are absolutely, effectively stiffer than OE Comp. The v4 rear springs are dual-rate and have a somewhat softer ride rate where the car will sit during normal driving. But when circumstances dictate and the initial rate coils fully compress, the second rate is likely significantly stiffer so as to prevent excess use of, and transition more smoothly into the bump stops. In the pic of the v4 setup for B9 on the KW website, you can see that the rear springs are sleeved. This further suggests they expect them to fully compress. This is done to prevent unwanted noise and/or damage to the powder coating on the springs. Assuming all of this is true, it makes sense that KW v4 dampers are generally tuned stiffer so as to be able to control stiffer springs.

So, there's the logic in a nutshell. I think the aftermarket v4 will ride stiffer and transmit more road noise and harshness than will the OE Comp suspension. I'd bet on there being a very noticeable difference. Given how near-perfect the comp car that I drove felt, until someone can make a real case that I'm wrong about all of this, I worry about being dissatisfied with a $7500 + labor KW v4 coilover kit with no recourse.

[BlindingRS5]

I have all of 034's density line suspension components for the B9 chassis installed along with a Öhlins Road & Track setup and I could not be happier. Eliminated the bounce and harshness of DRC and the density line of product minimized the NVH into the cabin. The adjustments are endless and it can be tuned to your liking, driving habits and use case. KW is a great option as well. You cannot go wrong with either. But be sure if you are going coilover, do it right and get the components that allow proper geometry adjustment for alignment, proper patch contact for handling needs, etc. But at the end of day. Make your own decisions my friend. The internet doesn't pay you and don't give a shit in all reality. Your money, your car, you do you. Good luck.

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[djmika]

Blinding - Thanks man. Appreciate you taking the time. I wish I had a way to ride in a car with Ohlins. I've been tempted but as stiff as the spring rates are, I would need to try before I buy and I just haven't found a way to do that. My concern is that, as stiff as the rates are, I'd feel all of the cracks and imperfections in the pavement. And here in CA, there are lots of those. The Comp I drove soaked them up expertly. Maybe the Dual-Flow Valves in the Ohlins do the trick. But I'm no longer willing to "buy blind."

034 is "in my back yard." I may at some point, do their control arms. Maybe a strut tower brace. Maybe sway bars, depending on what coilovers I go with. But after putting some of the various inserts, parts and pieces on my B8.5, I'll never go all out with their products again. Between the KW v3 and the 034 mods, something brought a whole bunch more NVH into the cabin of that car. I thought it could be that I ran higher tire pressure, relatively speaking. Probably around 50 PSI. I did this because I bent a couple HRE FF wheels and it spooked me. But the 2024 Comp I just drove, I checked tire pressure on the dash and they'd filled them to 50 PSI as well and none of the NVH I felt in my B8.5 was present with the Comp.

I emailed Europrice yesterday. Alex responded saying that there's no way all of the requisite pieces are included at the $7100 +/- price from the online parts houses. I think he's right. As stated above, $7100 is about right for just the struts. No springs, mounting or isolation parts. I think the Comp suspension will cost over $10K no matter whether one is willing to piece things together through online discounters or go through Europrice. I think Europrice is going to be a few hundred bucks more expensive but it may be worth it.

I wonder how many B9 owners are lurking, ready to ditch the sport suspension with DRC and upgrade if only resellers could give them the ability to experience a car with something like KW or Ohlins.

[BlindingRS5]

Blinding - Thanks man. Appreciate you taking the time. I wish I had a way to ride in a car with Ohlins. I've been tempted but as stiff as the spring rates are, I would need to try before I buy and I just haven't found a way to do that. My concern is that, as stiff as the rates are, I'd feel all of the cracks and imperfections in the pavement. And here in CA, there are lots of those. The Comp I drove soaked them up expertly. Maybe the Dual-Flow Valves in the Ohlins do the trick. But I'm no longer willing to "buy blind."

034 is "in my back yard." I may at some point, do their control arms. Maybe a strut tower brace. Maybe sway bars, depending on what coilovers I go with. But after putting some of the various inserts, parts and pieces on my B8.5, I'll never go all out with their products again. Between the KW v3 and the 034 mods, something brought a whole bunch more NVH into the cabin of that car. I thought it could be that I ran higher tire pressure, relatively speaking. Probably around 50 PSI. I did this because I bent a couple HRE FF wheels and it spooked me. But the 2024 Comp I just drove, I checked tire pressure on the dash and they'd filled them to 50 PSI as well and none of the NVH I felt in my B8.5 was present with the Comp.

I emailed Europrice yesterday. Alex responded saying that there's no way all of the requisite pieces are included at the $7100 +/- price from the online parts houses. I think he's right. As stated above, $7100 is about right for just the struts. No springs, mounting or isolation parts. I think the Comp suspension will cost over $10K no matter whether one is willing to piece things together through online discounters or go through Europrice. I think Europrice is going to be a few hundred bucks more expensive but it may be worth it.

I wonder how many B9 owners are lurking, ready to ditch the sport suspension with DRC and upgrade if only resellers could give them the ability to experience a car with something like KW or Ohlins.

Brother. If you want to know where i sourced my Öhlins, who set it up for me and all the details just hit me up in the PM's and we exchange phone numbers so I can text you the details easier. I am not on here enough and the conversations go on forever with the delays.

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[o1turbo30v]

Bilstein EVO T1 coilovers made specifically for the B9 RS5, under $3k, and get a KW EDC/DRC Cancel kit, all in under $3500, best $3500 i ever spent.

[djmika]

Bilstein EVO T1 coilovers made specifically for the B9 RS5, under $3k, and get a KW EDC/DRC Cancel kit, all in under $3500, best $3500 i ever spent.

This is really interesting to me. I have questions...

Who did you order the Evo T1 setup from?

Road-feel wise, do you get more, less, equal noise, vibration and harshness? Does it ride noticeably stiffer than stock? Do you daily the car and is it a comfortable commuter or would you consider it to me more track-focused now?

The T in T1 is supposedly for "track." They don't make an S version for our cars. And the 911 guys seem to say even the Evo SE is stiffer than stock.

I actually placed an order for the Evo T1 kit months ago through ECS. I waited months and cancelled. They'd taken my money up front and even after all that time, they couldn't give me an ETA. Since then, I continued to research and then after driving the Comp car, I knew it could be set up to my liking. But it's so damn expensive.

Your feedback has me rethinking things again. Would love to hear more. I'm going to PM this to you as well.

Thanks!