DSG Clutch pack finally worn or is this bigger?

[WhiteDiamond]

I have 108000 miles on the S6 at this point. I have some worsening clutch issues accelerating from a stop or braking to a stop. When leaving from a stop, sometimes the clutch engages/disengages several times until several MPH are achieved. This is VERY noticeable. Other times I'll start to apply throttle, but no forward movement, then, it engages(very similar to a clutch dump in those old manual trans things....LOL) abruptly or I have to release throttle and start the process over. When coming to a stop, the clutch seems to hang on to the gear too long as the car comes to a full stop. This typically requires a bit more brake pressure and I can feel the clutch finally release just before the car reaches 0 mph(yes, engine RPM recovers, indicating what I am feeling)......

Other than this, the trans seems find. No issues on up and down shifts once moving. Fluids and filters have been changed according to Audi's schedule(actually ahead of schedule now, as just changed at 105000 miles, no change in behavior).
The car got RS7 turbos and upgrades when the stock turbos seized around 76K miles.

No codes. The issues seem to get worse with time driven. This seems to indicate an internal problem, but I cannot find a way to verify it and there is no other weird issues taking place.

Looking at the TVS clutch pack system, but since the qualified shop is so far away, I want to have a pretty good idea what it needs before heading that way.

Todd

[Audibellybutton]

Have you been doing a clutch adaptation with vcds too with every service?

are you tuned or stock?

[Alabama]

I have 108000 miles on the S6 at this point. I have some worsening clutch issues accelerating from a stop or braking to a stop. When leaving from a stop, sometimes the clutch engages/disengages several times until several MPH are achieved. This is VERY noticeable. Other times I'll start to apply throttle, but no forward movement, then, it engages(very similar to a clutch dump in those old manual trans things....LOL) abruptly or I have to release throttle and start the process over. When coming to a stop, the clutch seems to hang on to the gear too long as the car comes to a full stop. This typically requires a bit more brake pressure and I can feel the clutch finally release just before the car reaches 0 mph(yes, engine RPM recovers, indicating what I am feeling)......

Other than this, the trans seems find. No issues on up and down shifts once moving. Fluids and filters have been changed according to Audi's schedule(actually ahead of schedule now, as just changed at 105000 miles, no change in behavior).
The car got RS7 turbos and upgrades when the stock turbos seized around 76K miles.

No codes. The issues seem to get worse with time driven. This seems to indicate an internal problem, but I cannot find a way to verify it and there is no other weird issues taking place.

Looking at the TVS clutch pack system, but since the qualified shop is so far away, I want to have a pretty good idea what it needs before heading that way.

Todd

Out of my league, but why would you focus on clutch packs before checking the function of the mechatronic? Surprising you don't have any codes.

[Devorak13]

Do you have jerking when starting in dial position or reverse? Or when going from 2nd to 1st gear?

Sounds familiar to my issue. Mechtronic replacement resolved it.

[WhiteDiamond]

Out of my league, but why would you focus on clutch packs before checking the function of the mechatronic? Surprising you don't have any codes.

That is the reason. No codes. The transmission is also flawless in every gear change after it is rolling. This is always a low speed, coming to a stop or accelerating from a stop, issue. I haven't ruled out a mechatronic issue, just that there is nothing else really going on.

For the other question on clutch adaptation, the dealer and my favorite Euro car shop do NOT want to do a learn. Both are giving the exact same reason, as well. When there are no issues with the trans at all, the clutch re-learn is typically fine and does its job. However, on cars they have tried that do have something going on, it has resulted in requiring much more work more times than it is successful.

Edit: The car is running APRs transmission tune. It was tuned to stage III(for the turbos) and had the trans tune done all at the same time. Right after the turbo replacement was done.

[WhiteDiamond]

Do you have jerking when starting in dial position or reverse? Or when going from 2nd to 1st gear?

Sounds familiar to my issue. Mechtronic replacement resolved it.

I have an issue in reverse when on a hill that causes the car to roll backwards if no clutch applied. The car will not try to apply the clutch if it starts rolling backward. I shouldn't say that, it will actually try, but it is a few seconds after it should have and now the car is rolling backward at a good rate(my driveway allows this to happen).

I do not know what dial position is. It happens in both sport and normal modes. It is possible it is 2nd to 1st on the slowdown to a stop(I believe it is 1st being allowed to hold on too long, though), but it is always stop into first on accel from a stop.

[brabenec]

Hi,
I also have APR TCU done and my gearbox will not switch from 2 to 1 until it hits 0 MPH. It can be jerking with downshit depending on how hard/soft you brake. APR has confirmed this behaviour is normal.
Not sure if this helps.

[WhiteDiamond]

Hi,
I also have APR TCU done and my gearbox will not switch from 2 to 1 until it hits 0 MPH. It can be jerking with downshit depending on how hard/soft you brake. APR has confirmed this behaviour is normal.
Not sure if this helps.

I will have to see if that is the case I am seeing. The release of the clutch is way too late, either way no matter what gear, as the car nears a full stop. It should be in 1st, but beyond that, the clutch in my car appears to try and hold gear until the car is nearly stopped.

Doing more research, it seems I may have this backwards. This appears to be more a mechatronic issue than clutch issue. For some reason, I have been of the belief I would be getting codes, but I am finding plenty of S4 owners that have experienced very similar issues and it is solved with the mechatronic being fixed/replaced.

[Audibellybutton]

That is the reason. No codes. The transmission is also flawless in every gear change after it is rolling. This is always a low speed, coming to a stop or accelerating from a stop, issue. I haven't ruled out a mechatronic issue, just that there is nothing else really going on.

For the other question on clutch adaptation, the dealer and my favorite Euro car shop do NOT want to do a learn. Both are giving the exact same reason, as well. When there are no issues with the trans at all, the clutch re-learn is typically fine and does its job. However, on cars they have tried that do have something going on, it has resulted in requiring much more work more times than it is successful.

Edit: The car is running APRs transmission tune. It was tuned to stage III(for the turbos) and had the trans tune done all at the same time. Right after the turbo replacement was done.

My friend, do not listen to the dealer or whatever shop that was

You need to do a clutch adaptation every time you do a dsg service. This is included in all of the dsg service videos on YouTube as well.
You should be doing it occasionally even when it’s not following a dsg service. I’m not sure why they would say that. The adaptation does the opposite. It does not cause any issues.

The way the DSG is designed is very similar to the Porsche PDK. It has a basket of wet clutches. As the clutches wear down, you need to do an adaptation to calibrate the kiss/grab points and clamping pressures. The DSG can have a long life especially since it is designed to adapt to varying levels of clutch wear with the adaptation process.

As far as the mech unit, I wouldn’t be so quick to jump to that conclusion especially since there are lots of people both on YouTube and on AZ that changed out their mech unit and did not fix the issue.

My strong advice is to watch the DSG videos on YouTube from JHM they give a lot of good in-depth information about the DSG that’ll help you understand how it works. I’m not saying your mech unit isn’t bad but there is a number of things to suspect first. But first step would definitely be to do that clutch adaptation and see how it feels. For me personally I had a rough 2-1 downshift when I got the car. Tcu tune and clutch adaptation completely eliminated it for me. I also started getting some slip later on, clutch adaptation with VCDS resolved it and made the car feel new again. Whenever I notice any slip going on I do the adaptation. It’s not getting rid of the wear on the clutches, but it is calibrating the transmission so it knows how to operate with the loss of thickness on the clutches if that makes sense. Clutch adaptation is your friend not your foe.

If you allow the transmission to slip for too long, and do not do an adaptation you are accelerating the wear of the entire transmission and potentially causing irreversible damage. I wonder how many DSG were Grenaded due to a simple misunderstanding.

I hope this helps.

[Audibellybutton]

As far as the transmission jerking when stopped, there was a user on here, I’ll try to find the thread later but he replaced a lot of things including the mech unit that didn’t resolve it. It ended up being a gasket inside the transmission that solved it for him. Just something to take note of. I think it was a valve body gasket if I remember correctly. Don’t quote me on it. But yeah I will try to find the thread for you and post it here.

edit: just reread your original post. Those symptoms definitely sound like something that can be remedied by a clutch adaptation

[WhiteDiamond]

edit: just reread your original post. Those symptoms definitely sound like something that can be remedied by a clutch adaptation

Since the next step would be to step into some sort of mechatronic fix, the adaptation is worth trying. If it fixes this, though, it will be an interesting conversation with my favorite shop.....

[Audibellybutton]

Since the next step would be to step into some sort of mechatronic fix, the adaptation is worth trying. If it fixes this, though, it will be an interesting conversation with my favorite shop.....

In my truly honest opinion for me I would go clutch adaptation => Clutch pack => Mechatronic.

I think your clutches are likely warn to some extent. A good place to get them is GPO parts or if you are on a budget then Aliexpress lol i know TVS is usually renown as the best but I think you have to purchase their tcu tune as well. The cost as almost as much as replacing a transmission lol but yeah I think I would vote Mechatronic as the least likely one but it cant be ruled out either.

[Devorak13]

How is this panning out for you?

[WhiteDiamond]

How is this panning out for you?

Clutch adaptation still isn't scheduled. If it fails, then the below is the current plan.

This will be a little ways out. The Audi isn't being driven as much and another project has priority right now.
My plan is to do the mechatronic replace myself, change all the filters, and new fluid after talking to 2 shops that work on Audis. Eurocode says the mechatronic should be part of the TVS clutch upgrade if the clutch packs are worn, so that part will be done if it has to go for clutch pack replacement.

[rlny]

How do you do the day adaptation with OBDeleven? I found so ring that said go to basic settings and press clutch valve calibration and I tried it and got an error function not available I think it said. My trans temp is 72c.


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[qcrazy]

Trans temp needs to be below 60C. Recommend starting when it is closer to 50C to ensure it can finish the process.

[rlny]

Trans temp needs to be below 60C. Recommend starting when it is closer to 50C to ensure it can finish the process.

Tried it with trans temp 54c and still says function not available. Am I missing something?


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[WhiteDiamond]

Trans temp needs to be below 60C. Recommend starting when it is closer to 50C to ensure it can finish the process.

Good info I have not run across before. Thank you. I am going to try and get the adaptation done next week. I'll post results when I do.

[WhiteDiamond]

Well, it has been a while and I just got time to get this done. I had my favorite Eurocar shop in Colorado Springs do the calibration, Concours Cars, and they said it went fine. I will head down in a bit to pick it up, but they took it for a long drive with some of the info I provided on how to get it to act up. They said it is driving fine. I will update as I put some miles on it.

There were 2 Audi Specific codes stored: Valve 3 and clutch 2(which I believe is the reverse clutch portion). I did have the car fail to engage reverse twice in the last week, so it really needed to go in, and provide a nice code saying reverse was no longer available.....LOL. Shut car off, opened door, allowed power off cycle, then restarted with reverse ok........ I'll ask them if the cal give a before and after value for position, but I suspect there was a significant change if this worked. 110,000 miles on the monster........Still love the car. Hope this works.

[WhiteDiamond]

Drove the S6 home from the shop in various modes, auto/sport/manual, with no issues. Initial engagement from a stop is much smoother and the clutch is able to get the car moving on a slight incline(which had become a problem, as the car wouldn't get engagement and start rolling backward).

The error code they got is 8960 - Valve 3 in transmission part 2. Fault frequency 2(it gave me the reverse gear not avail code 2 x times in the last week, so I'm sure that is it). Not 100% on what valve 3 is at this time and what is meant by transmission part 2. Looking into this incase this is a pressure issue.