Supercharger Porting Q&A and Resource Thread

[mahhdd]

If someone wants to help contribute to this, I'll edit my post to include more information.
Please help out and post more questions, and help the quality of this post by suggesting corrections.

#1: Who is still in the Supercharger Porting game? - NOTE: Ranked by who has contributed most to this thread



Shane Horning (Clyde, NY) - @superchargedaudisport (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) - *active participant in this thread*
Performance Builds, "Albertaholdings" (Edmonton, Canada) - @performancebuilds (https://www.instagram.com/performancebuilds) - *active participant in this thread*
VAST AZ, Marshall Roles aka "Rockcandy" (Phoenix, AZ) - website (https://vastperformanceaz.com/shop/ols/products/3-0-supercharger-porting-service)
Mike Bunton (Plainfield, Indiana) - @_Madbydesign (https://www.instagram.com/_madbydesign/)
Shorties Racing (Centennial, CO) - website (https://www.instagram.com/shortiesracing/)
Jokerz Performance (Ashkum, IL) - website (https://jokerzperformance.com/product-category/audi/porting-rebuild-services)
S4Matty (I think he left the business)




#2: What else should be done to the supercharger if it's off or you're having it ported

-Fresh supercharger oil (there's a special procedure for this, and Jokerz will void your warranty if you don't consult with them before doing this yourself). In short, measure the amount of oil you can get out, and only replace what was removed.
-Coolant brick inspection, cleaning (if necessary), and or replacement.
-New gaskets should be planned every time the S/C is removed.
-Check for coolant anywhere in the area. Any pooled coolant or signs of coolant could be a symptom of leaky IC bricks or PCV (both common).

#3: What else should be done to the car if it's off or you're having it ported?

Maintenance heaven! PCV, Water Pump, Thermostat, PCV Breather Hose, Crossover Coolant Pipe, Intake Gaskets, Intercooler Cleaning, Carbon Cleaning, Cold Air Intake Swap. A less common need/issue is needing to change the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor

#4: How do I deal with the logistics of having the supercharger off and shipping it away to get it ported?

Contact the vendor ahead of time and ask if they can send you a freshly ported, comparable mileage unit so you can just do an immediate swap. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) has mentioned he can sell you one he has in stock and you can send your stock unit back to him, and it costs the same regardless of what path you choose (porting yours or buying his). He also mentioned he can work with scheduling so there's a lower turn around time. Jokerz advertises 15 business days, and I'm not sure if they do any scheduling. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) mentioned a potential turn around time of 3 business days from the date of receipt - IF YOU SCHEDULE IT.

#5: What's the cost?

Depends on what you get done. There's different rebuild options, inspection services, painting/coating options, pulley install options etc. Jokerz has a inspection service for $150, a rebuild service for $500 (cleaning, disassembly, new bearings), and they can deep clean, pressure test, and service your supercharger coolant bricks for $150( See question #7 below for more info). Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) charges $100 for painting the S/C. Jokerz offers powdercoating. Jokerz offers Griptech S/C for install pullies for $229/each.

Now - the actual supercharger porting itself from Jokerz has seemingly gone up in price since I started my spreadsheet last year. They were $1,300 earlier this year and now they're $1,575. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) was $750 last year and is now $850 (end of 2021), and $50 if you want your Throttle Body Adapter ported as well.

Then you need to consider shipping costs... You cover both sending and return costs...


#6: What are the power gains?

There's not a ton of data around this. Jokerz advertises "up to" 67 hp and 36 ft. lbs; but I'm not sure if this is wheel horsepower or crank. Also up to +3 lbs of boost gained. There's another thread from 2018 where Bruno_s4 netted 30 whp from S4Matty's port job off a Stage 2 GIAC tune. Another user picked up 50-60 bhp and +3-4mph trap speed in the quarter.

#7: What are the other benefits?

Lower IATs due to increased blower efficiency (needing data/unproven - supposedly only the 'ramp up' in IATs is slowed down), more boost produced (2-3 lbs on average), supercharger efficiency is moved, and the supercharger can be spun harder. All of these combined will allow you to run a really aggressive pulley ratio and move your torque curve lower. Some 2++ drivers upgrade from their 187-190mm cranks to 194-200mm cranks to pair with their smaller supercharger pullies to make best use of the blower.

#8: If my PCV goes, should I consider going ahead to do this, especially if I'm paying for labor?

The short of it is if you're not tuned or at Stage 1, you don't really have to consider this option yet. Getting the supercharger off is actually pretty easy (30 minute job, 15 minutes if you know what you're doing and in a hurry). Porting the supercharger is more of a Stage 2, 2+, and 2++ type of thing. If you have the spare cash and you're an type of person, then go for it...

VIDEO: FCP Euro Supercharger Removal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eWbAfXQ4rg)
VIDEO: Audi C7 Owners International's "This is how you replace your 3.0T Supercharger Intercooler Cores (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8VhJ-IjsRA)

#9: Does a ported supercharger benefit someone that's Stage 1?

Yes; but, it'll be more marginal in comparison to someone who is spinning the blower harder. The best gains will be seen at Stage 2 and 2+.

#10: Will my tune accommodate for a ported blower at any/all stages?

It should; but, check with your tuner. I reached out to 034 and they said Stage 1 will take it just fine. There aren't special tunes for ported blowers; but, there are some tuners who have special tunes for larger throttle bodies.

#11: Does mileage matter on these units?

They do. 1320 superchargers wear overtime; but, they can be rebuilt, and these blowers are very common and are easily replaceable with lower mileage units.

#12a: Does it matter for your shop to get both the Throttle Body Adapter and the Supercharger at the same time?

Yep! Whoever does your port job can match the port of the supercharger

#12b: What size Throttle Body makes sense for my ported blower?

Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) says there's virtually no difference between a 80mm and 84mm TB; no gains were seen at lower altitudes. With a higher P/R and altitude, it may yield some additional power, though (unconfirmed). 034 designed their TB to be 84mm. 84mm is still a good option, and may be friendly for future supercharger options or folks at higher elevations.

#12c: Do I have to port my Throttle Body Adapter?

No; but, there's power to be gained if you do. Throttle body kits narrow down to 70mm to match stock charger inlet. The porting inlet opens to ~76mm after porting, so matching something like a 034 adapter will allow for better flow. Nobody has numbers on how much power this actually nets. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) keeps an inventory of 034 adapters in stock for convenience.

#13: What about my Supercharger Cooling Bricks / Intercoolers?

They're definitely a weak link. Inspect them, clean them (if necessary), and plan on having to replace them at some point. Not sure if this is needed now that the Mahle bricks are out for $109/each from FCP Euro. I'm not sure if those Mahle bricks are any good; but, everything from FCP Euro has a Lifetime Warranty, so use at your own risk. The OEM bricks are like $260/each

#14: Shipping: How big of a box am I going to need? How much does a 1320 unit weigh?

A good box that should fit the unit and allow for packing is 24x24x16
Not sure about the weight of the unit; but, I think it's 35-40 lbs. Complete charger plus packing plus the box is roughly 45 lbs.
[B]Cost saving tip: A lot of employers have corporate shipping rates (15-30% off), so you may want to have your employer print the sending and return labels and just pay them directly to save $30-40.

#15: Any downsides to porting? Can porting be "done wrong"?

Need more info from someone who ports
Yes, a supercharger unit can be ported poorly. From what I remember from a 034 Q&A, ports can be "done wrong." Flow matters, and turbulence from a bad port job can happen and cause a restriction.

The real downside is the unrelated costs. There's also going to be the need for supporting mods, such as cooling upgrades (Heat Exchanger, Upgraded Coolant Pump), a solution for your stock cats (moving them or doing test pipes) so they don't melt, and.... oh yeah...

More air into your motor means a larger fuel requirement. Adding E40 puts an even larger stress on the fuel system. A HPFP is already recommended for all of 034's E40 tunes. A HPFP is needed for Stage 2+ and a port, because depending on altitude users have been running out of fuel. So you pretty much have to factor in the cost of upgraded fuel components, meth injection, and an ECA (ethanol content analyzer) so you can blend ethanol. Ethanol has a higher octane, which helps deal with detonation.

#16: What are the differences between a moderate and an aggressive porting job?

From user RoofRails: This comes down to the amount of material removed from the inlet to the rotor face. All of the Ports seem to remove similar amounts of material in the inlet leading up to the rotor face . Where I see the difference in more aggressive ports (race ports) is the amount of material in front of and around the rotors being removed which exposes more of the rotor face to the incoming air. This can definitely lead to more boost but this style seems to like more RPM to overcome the drag created by exposing so much of the rotors.

#17: Are there ideal intakes for porting?

Yes. Some intakes can look like they would flow well; but, when you go Stage 2, 2+, or port the blower the flow actually is greatly restrictive. 034's S34 intake is designed to flow well with all applications. The logs show that my CTS Turbo Intake is fine for Stage 1; but, it may later become a restriction, so I opted to go ahead and upgrade it.

#18: Are there any bigger blower options available yet?

Need more info
I know MercRacing is/was working on something. I've seen something from VPS posted as well. The reality is that these kits are very expensive - $6,000 - $15,000. Even then, you're still up against the power limits of the motor (600hp at the high end) until the ring issues get solved (please save us, Port Injection!). Then... Tuners have to make the business decision of, "Is there enough demand for these upgraded blower kits to develop a new tune around this?" 034 Motorsport is very "wait and see" about this. They don't think it's realistic, given the age of the car and consumer demand. I tend to agree with them. I don't think there's going to be a large number of people looking seriously at $6,000+ blower kits. I think anyone with those means will look at a B9+ series car with all the success they're having and say, "Ya know, I can afford one of these, and the power delivery of a turbo doesn't sound so bad..." Set your expectations realistically here.

#19: Does an "aggressive" port affect drivability?

Need someone to answer

#20: What should I be considering for fuel upgrades

Definitely a High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP), even if you're on 93 (depending on altitude).

E40 withouta blower definitely requires fuel upgrades. E40 with a blower can get pretty serious, and you need to keep track of things. If you go E40 with a ported blower with an a P/R (Pulley Ratio) above 3.2, there's a good chance you're going to have to consider Meth Injection and/or Port Injection. There's a Port Injection Kit in the works that is supposedly going to allow us to run E40 easily and up to E85, and it addresses the unavoidable carbon buildup issue that occurs with Direct Injection. When running E40, the rail pressure is very high which puts a toll on the HPFP Regulator, which causes a shorter lifespan of the HPFP housing. So expect having to change the actual HPFP at sometime in the future. The best way to monitor the HPFP is to log the pump's duty cycle, and log the car periodically (like we all should be doing)

#21: Can you try to port a supercharger yourself? Any tips?

Refer to #15, because it can go wrong. Not sure if anyone who professionally ports will give their secrets, as it'll cost them business.

#22: What is DA? Does it Matter?

DA is Density Altitude. It's NOT just elevation. It's an advanced calculation depending on atmospheric conditions, and it matters when determining your ideal pulley ratio. Running a high pulley ratio will help in higher DA; but, in negative DA it doesn't. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) says if you run Integrated Engineering E40 files in Negative DA with a high PR and an aggressive port that it could blow the rings, which is a common issue from high cylinder pressure, high temps, and/or running lean. Under excess heat, the rings grow and the gap closes and causes the rings to buckle and scratch the cylinder walls (dropping compression).

#23: What's the ideal Pulley Ratio (P/R) for me?

It depends. Let's start here - A 206-207mm JHM pulley is NOT more aggressive than a 57.7mm/196.5mm combo. Do the math!!! (Crank Pulley diameter ÷ Supercharger Pulley diameter) - This "just do a big crank pulley" is a common misconception I see on Facebook, where a lot of users say "it's easier and it saves u money." A 207mm with a stock crank is a 3.273 P/R, and a 57.7mm/196.5mm combo is 3.406 P/R, and it's a huge difference.

Make sure to read #22 as well, because they're related. Shane Horning (https://www.instagram.com/superchargedaudisport/) also simplified finding your ideal Pulley Ratio as the following:

Negative DA: 3.1 P/R
0 DA: 3.2 P/R
1000 DA: 3.3 P/R
2000 DA: 3.4 P/R
3000+ DA: 3.4 to 3.5 P/R

#24: When does it make sense to replace the Snout bearing and the Rear Needle Bearing?

Need someone to answer

#25: Should I change my supercharger oil?

If you're going to be spinning your supercharger harder (reving higher through tunes, using a smaller supercharger pulley, and/or larger crank pulley), you should be changing your supercharger oil. There's not exactly a specified interval. I'd say it depends on how hard you're running your car. 70K miles would be on the safer side and 100K miles would be on the high side. Any supercharger porter will do this service for you, as it's easier to do when the supercharger is off. You can do this yourself; but, make sure you watch a video of how it's done, measure the exact volume of how much supercharger oil comes out, and only replace the amount that goes back in. If you don't, you risk damaging the blower. It requires a lot of twisting, turning, turning the supercharger rotors, etc to get any out. You can also do this when the supercharger is on the car; but, it'll require a special pumping tool/hose, and there's always the risk that you'll break a piece of that off in the supercharger. The service is like $20-30, so don't be cheap. You can use GM AC Delco Supercharger oil, as it's an Eaton product.

#26: At what point should I be considering porting my blower? What mods come first? What mods come after?


For the safest route to go and to get the best performance for every dollar invested

New plugs and gap them to your tuner/future tuner's specifications (0.026" to 0.032" normally)
Intake
Tune (Stage 1) can be done here if your temps are OK. It's safer to do the next two mods.
Heat Exchanger - stock cars can benefit from an HX upgrade, so it's smarter to get this installed before you tune it
Coolant Pump Upgrade (CWA 100-3)
Tune (Stage 1) - this is the more conservative order.
Testpipes or Gutted Cats (or relocated cats) - address the OEM melting cats issue, which can totally ruin your motor
Consider Exhaust Mods here - keep in mind that if you go gutted cats or test pipes AND have exhaust mods, your exhaust will probably sound like a trumpet.
HPFP - consider a Cable for Logging, P3 Gauge to monitor, and ECA if you're running ethanol blends. Assume you don't have a ported blower, you can begin to run E40 here.
Supercharger Pulley or Crank Pulley with the Stage 2 or 2+ tune - the OEM stock crank pulley is a point of failure and it's an easier job than a supercharger pulley install
[B]Ported Blower
Throttle Bodies (Ultracharger or Superdupercharger) with the corresponding tune - You can consider having the TB adapter ported as well for max gains. This is best done at the same time by your porter, so they can match the necks together seamlessly.
Getting into E40 to E85 - consider meth or port injection, depending on DA and P/R - The Port Injection kit won't be cheap; but, it'll allow you to really push into high P/R and E85.

NOTE: Exhaust mods (Test Pipes, Downpipes, X-pipe/Resonator Delete, Mufflers) is "somewhere in the middle" and is kind of subjective on where it should be ranked on this list. Keep in mind that exhaust mods allow heat to escape the vehicle through higher flow/less restriction.


#27: How easy is it to remove the supercharger? How fast can I do it?

Albertaholdings from Performance Builds says it takes about 30 minutes... 15 minutes if you're in a hurry...
If a mechanic is quoting you an hour to do the removal, they're criminally ripping you off.
I need to come back and do a tool list
VIDEO of removal made by Albertaholdings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHBhiLngWXY)

#28: OMFGGGG I can't wait to port my blower then send the horsepower to 600+++ and boost to the mooooooooon!!!!!11

Hold up! If you're thinking this way, you're going to pop your motor. There's some other good threads you should check out, seen below. These supercharged 3.0t motors have limits and currently we're seeing a lot of cylinder ring issues. The big concern is avoiding detonation with solid cooling, good maintenance, and quality gas. Then, you need to make sure you're getting enough fuel and avoiding injector issues so you don't lean out. More technical information is below


Resources:
THREAD: S4Matty's Supercharger and Throttle Body Porting got me 30 whp! (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/811760-S4Matty-supercharger-and-throttle-body-porting-got-me-30-whp)
THREAD: Life Beyond Stage II - The higher stage development thread (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/713242-**OFFICIAL**-Life-Beyond-Stage-II-the-higher-stage-development-thread)
THREAD: Cylinder 5 Issues (The Dreaded Cylinder 5 Misfire) / Melted Rings (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/949096-Cylinder-5-Issues-(The-Dreaded-Cylinder-5-Misfire))
VIDEO: 034 Describing their take on the Ring issues we're seeing with high HP applications, poorly maintained vehicles, and "poorly upgraded" vehicles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCFxK3_Ugnk)

Help Build this thread:
Ask your own questions.
Provide additional data
Suggest edits.
Experts - HELP!! Give input where you can. Share the questions you get the most that aren't on the lsit. Correct things as you see things that need correcting.
Give mahhdd a deal on a ported supercharger [:D]

[Thugmeet]

Im wondering how a very aggressive port affects daily drivability

[RoofRails]

#1 Who is still porting. You can add (Mike Bunton) _Madbydesign , Marshall Roles with Vast AZ and Shortiesracing.

#7 What are the other benefits: You mentioned lower IAT as a benefit. I would say that is a little misleading. People have been claiming this forever (increased efficiency) but has anyone actually proved it ? To me decreased IAT means if I was hitting 60C at the end of a 1/4 mile pre-ported blower then after the port if all other factors are equal I will see less then 60C.

That wasn't what I saw after my ported blower. I saw more boost for sure and my IAT did not skyrocket but it definitely did not go down.

#10 Will my tuner accommodate for a ported blower ? None of the tuners that I'm aware of have a ported blower tune. On a Dual Pulley file They typically set a Boost request based on the limitations of 2 bar map sensor which most typical dual pulley set ups won't hit in less then perfect conditions. Adding the ported blower and or a big pulley ratio gets you closer to if not over this boost setpoint (depending on your PR).

#15A Any downsides to porting: With a good port added to a E40 full bolt on dual pulley vehicle in good air (boost season) you may find that you are out of fuel. If you do find that to be the case you will need to add a supplemental fuel source (Meth) to get things back in shape.

#15B Can porting be done wrong ? I believe you can overport a case. At some point you will be making far more heat and heat equals boost. We associate boost with power but not if it's a byproduct of heat.

#16 difference between moderate and aggressive ports. This comes down to the amount of material removed from the inlet to the rotor face. All of the Ports seem to remove similar amounts of material in the inlet leading up to the rotor face . Where I see the difference in more aggressive ports (race ports) is the amount of material in front of and around the rotors being removed which exposes more of the rotor face to the incoming air. This can definitely lead to more boost but this style seems to like more RPM to overcome the drag created by exposing so much of the rotors.

I will just say that this whole porting game is one where people aren't motivated to share their knowledge so finding facts about the intricacies of porting isn't the easiest. That being said this is my understanding of what's going on based off of conversations I've had with different people in the game. If someone sees it differently I'm always open to change my understanding of something LOL !





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[SuitedUp2The9s]

I had mine ported by PerformanceBuilds.
Can be found here https://instagram.com/performancebuilds?utm_medium=copy_link

I have the Race Port version of his ported blower. I was trapping 119mph before and after that single change I was trapping 123mph in the 1/4 mile. Based on the weight of my car and the horsepower needed to get my 4300lbs C7 A6 with me in it, from 0 to 1/4 mile I picked up ~50-60bhp. DA being almost equal.
257812257810257813257811

[chrismadson]

Subbed.

Any thoughts on DIY for those who may be willing to potentially screw up our own superchargers? There is some info out there and I think a mega thread could use some info on that option!


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[RoofRails]

Here is my before and after 1/8th mile on a 2015 3.0TFSI Q5. 034 E40 file 200mm crank pulley Stock SC pulley.

The 7.33 @ 96.89 was sock blower / Stock throttle body and 3.17PR. Full weight

The 7.21 @ 98.82 was APR UC Throttle body and Jokers new no epoxy port and same 3.17PR. Full weight. This was on my second attempt at a dragy run following the install.

The 7.18 1/8th and 3.19 0-60 were my new PB with the Ported blower , APR UC and some good DA before I stopped testing. (Full weight).

I knew going in based on what others have posted that without meth I there was a chance I could run into fueling issues on E40 and that's exactly what happened so I limited the number of test runs I made and logged every one of them. I have a meth kit on deck waiting to find some nice weather and time to install it.

I logged the boost pre and post install and it's 2-2.5psi more across the board. The Yellow line is the boost request and the pink line is the boost actual. The first image is pre install and the last image is post Ported blower. You can see the ecu fluctuate the boost request I'm guessing as a result of my HPFP duty cycle and Injector duration going too high. Once I add a little fuel this should clean up and result in a new PB.

257849257850257851257854257855257856

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[Shane Horning]

Great info! Another thing you could add is pulley ratio. Depending what your altitude and or da will help determine best pulley ratio. Running a high pulley ratio will help in higher da but in negative da it doesn't. Another thing to watch for is be careful with 034 and ie e40 files in negative da with high pr and aggressive ports. Have seen quite a few blown rings from it. What I've learned so far is in negative da 3.1pr, 0 da 3.2pr, 1000da, 3.3pr, 2000da 3.4pr, 3000+ da 3.4 to 3.5 pr.

[mahhdd]

Great info! Another thing you could add is pulley ratio. Depending what your altitude and or da will help determine best pulley ratio. Running a high pulley ratio will help in higher da but in negative da it doesn't. Another thing to watch for is be careful with 034 and ie e40 files in negative da with high pr and aggressive ports. Have seen quite a few blown rings from it. What I've learned so far is in negative da 3.1pr, 0 da 3.2pr, 1000da, 3.3pr, 2000da 3.4pr, 3000+ da 3.4 to 3.5 pr.

Why are the rings getting blown? Is it running out of fuel?

Since you do this stuff professionally, can you give your $.02 on things that are incorrect, need editing, need more info, etc? I'll amend my post as needed.

[RoofRails]

Why are the rings getting blown? Is it running out of fuel?

Since you do this stuff professionally, can you give your $.02 on things that are incorrect, need editing, need more info, etc? I'll amend my post as needed.Rings have been our Achilles heel. Under excessive heat they grow and the the ring gap closes causing the ring to buckle in on itself scratch the cylinder walls and drop compression. I believe its related to a lean condition but others are saying it's related to cylinder pressure. Oleg was running more boost then any of us for quite some time because he had his fueling figured out. Same for the turbo B8.5 Mario built.

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[Shane Horning]

Rings have been our Achilles heel. Under excessive heat they grow and the the ring gap closes causing the ring to buckle in on itself scratch the cylinder walls and drop compression. I believe its related to a lean condition but others are saying it's related to cylinder pressure. Oleg was running more boost then any of us for quite some time because he had his fueling figured out. Same for the turbo B8.5 Mario built.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)It's not entirely related to fueling. It's related to cylinder pressure when running peak timing. Oleg didn't have problems because he was running 20 degrees timing, we are at 34. Same reason he didn't lift his heads whereas Justin and my car we lifted the heads in negative da.

[Shane Horning]

Why are the rings getting blown? Is it running out of fuel?

Since you do this stuff professionally, can you give your $.02 on things that are incorrect, need editing, need more info, etc? I'll amend my post as needed.80mm throttle body is basically the perfect size. I've done comparisons with 80 and 84 and no improvement with 84. Another thing to add is with aggressive port and 3.2+pr on e40 in low to negative da you will need port injection or methanol injection to handle the fueling as ie or auto tech pumps won't keep up. Also when running e40 the rail press is very high which puts a toll on the hpfp regulator causing a shorter lifespan of the hpfp housing so expect having to change the actual hpfp sometime

[mahhdd]

80mm throttle body is basically the perfect size. I've done comparisons with 80 and 84 and no improvement with 84.

Were you saying that the 84mm throttle body was potentially a cause for the ring issue, or were you saying that's just something to "add" to what I have. I think you're saying the later.


Another thing to add is with aggressive port and 3.2+pr on e40 in low to negative da you will need port injection or methanol injection to handle the fueling as ie or auto tech pumps won't keep up. Also when running e40 the rail press is very high which puts a toll on the hpfp regulator causing a shorter lifespan of the hpfp housing so expect having to change the actual hpfp sometime

That's some good info.

[Shane Horning]

Were you saying that the 84mm throttle body was potentially a cause for the ring issue, or were you saying that's just something to "add" to what I have. I think you're saying the later.



That's some good info.Just something to add. A bigger tb will flow more air but going from 80 to 84 isn't necessarily an improvement. Not saying that the 84 isn't a great option, just thot I'd mention that the 80 is big enough

[Albertaholdings]

Just something to add. A bigger tb will flow more air but going from 80 to 84 isn't necessarily an improvement. Not saying that the 84 isn't a great option, just thot I'd mention that the 80 is big enoughBest logs I have ever seen on stock blower is everything ported to 81mm with my adapter. I'm hitting 1389maf limit now. 257908257909

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[mahhdd]

Updated my original post to add more questions
Edited some of my responses to include more information
Highlight some of the actively participating porters in this thread
Color coding to what's needed

[SuitedUp2The9s]

Updated my original post to add more questions
Edited some of my responses to include more information
Highlight some of the actively participating porters in this thread
Color coding to what's needed
I updated my post with more accurate information [emoji2][emoji106]

[Shane Horning]

Best logs I have ever seen on stock blower is everything ported to 81mm with my adapter. I'm hitting 1389maf limit now. 257908257909

Sent from my GM1917 using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Yes the important thing is to port the charger inlet as large as possible but with apr,ie or 034 adapters etc I haven't seen a gain from swapping out the 80mm to an 84. However I'm +500ft sea level so at a very high altitude with thin air and high pr an 84 may very well give more gains.

[stevemannn]

Is a hpfp needed for a stage 2+ with a ported blower on 93 octane?

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[Shane Horning]

Is a hpfp needed for a stage 2+ with a ported blower on 93 octane?

Sent from my Redmi Note 9 Pro using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Depending on altitude but yes guys at sea level run out of fuel on 93 with a good port

[stevemannn]

Interesting, thank you.

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[mahhdd]

Also when running e40 the rail press is very high which puts a toll on the hpfp regulator causing a shorter lifespan of the hpfp housing so expect having to change the actual hpfp sometime

What's the best way to catch this? Logging? Do you remember the parameters?

[Shane Horning]

What's the best way to catch this? Logging? Do you remember the parameters?Yes logging hpfp duty cycle. On my car the duty cycle slowly kept getting higher till maxed out at 99%. I'm not sure what parameters on vcds as I log with ie or 034 cables

[hunter_killer]

It's not entirely related to fueling. It's related to cylinder pressure when running peak timing. Oleg didn't have problems because he was running 20 degrees timing, we are at 34. Same reason he didn't lift his heads whereas Justin and my car we lifted the heads in negative da.

Has anyone made a head stud kit for this engine or contacted say ARP yet to your knowledge? I thought Shorty and Oleg were but I haven’t seen any update from either in a long time (I know Oleg has more so moved to the 4.0 side with his swap).


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[Albertaholdings]

Yes the important thing is to port the charger inlet as large as possible but with apr,ie or 034 adapters etc I haven't seen a gain from swapping out the 80mm to an 84. However I'm +500ft sea level so at a very high altitude with thin air and high pr an 84 may very well give more gains.There's not 84mm of material. So I'm just sticking with the Hemi that measures 81mm at the back. Maybe could do 84mm but the heads of the bolts would be sticking out on the inside.

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[Shane Horning]

There's not 84mm of material. So I'm just sticking with the Hemi that measures 81mm at the back. Maybe could do 84mm but the heads of the bolts would be sticking out on the inside.

Sent from my GM1917 using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)I agree 100%. Well said!

[Shane Horning]

Has anyone made a head stud kit for this engine or contacted say ARP yet to your knowledge? I thought Shorty and Oleg were but I haven’t seen any update from either in a long time (I know Oleg has more so moved to the 4.0 side with his swap).


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)I haven't seen any kits yet but haven't been looking recently. I stepped the pr down to 3.2 and not lifting heads anymore

[nosport]

I'm going Oleg way on 3.0T, right now im on way building another engine with forged internals. ARP dont have any head stud kit for our engines yet(Hope they will take a custom order for it). I bought a turbo kit from Oleg (G35-900).
What companies else can provide me a head stud kit ?

[Shane Horning]

I'm going Oleg way on 3.0T, right now im on way building another engine with forged internals. ARP dont have any head stud kit for our engines yet(Hope they will take a custom order for it). I bought a turbo kit from Oleg (G35-900).
What companies else can provide me a head stud kit ?Lmk how the eng build goes. I'm very interested in doing that same thing to a few engines I have that #4 cylinder is damaged

[hunter_killer]

I'm going Oleg way on 3.0T, right now im on way building another engine with forged internals. ARP dont have any head stud kit for our engines yet(Hope they will take a custom order for it). I bought a turbo kit from Oleg (G35-900).
What companies else can provide me a head stud kit ?

Are you going to do any head work (porting/ polishing) or bigger valves? I’ve never seen any head specs on these engines and nobody talks about them so are they good enough from factory?


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[nosport]

Are you going to do any head work (porting/ polishing) or bigger valves? I’ve never seen any head specs on these engines and nobody talks about them so are they good enough from factory?


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Head will be little polishing for sure. Time will show, whats more will be done. Probably different valve springs. Not many peoples doing hard work on those engines still(Why?)

[hunter_killer]

Head will be little polishing for sure. Time will show, whats more will be done. Probably different valve springs. Not many peoples doing hard work on those engines still(Why?)

Sweet. I don’t know, maybe there’s not a big crowd for it (which is probably true) but enough interest will still keep pushing the platform more and more.


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[mahhdd]

I think it's because people who want to go really fast move platforms.
People who want forged internals or a built motor don't want to write the check for it when they screw theirs up... They opt for the cheap, used motor.

[hunter_killer]

I think it's because people who want to go really fast move platforms.
People who want forged internals or a built motor don't want to write the check for it when they screw theirs up... They opt for the cheap, used motor.

That’s true but the forged internals/ other parts are still needed for the used engine. Example is the B5 crowd is still getting parts and what not all the time. No reason a similar V6 can’t be as popular but I understand there needs to be a big push or break through for all of that to happen.


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[stevemannn]

Probably also the fact, that once the walls are scored the block is pretty much junk, unless you sleeve it and downsize pistons.
There isn't enough meat to bore the cylinders.

Any sort of failure = new short block. Or sleeves with new pistons etc. Then you're also looking at a custom tune, because the engine is now 2.7l.
It all adds up really really fast. Just cheaper alternatives to make more power with.

I think that's why most of the guys chasing numbers etc. Have jumped ship

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[djn876]

This is a great thread, but I will say unless you need to, all the maintenance crap (PCV, water pump, etc) isn't worth it at all. Swapping a charger takes an hour or two, everything in the list above is 1600+ in parts and many hours of labor, even DIY, consider injector seals, tools, etc. I already have a ported charger but needed to do PCV now and figured I'd do it all as well, it's a huge pain in the ass and not as worth it at all when just doing a swap.

Honestly don't know why everyone is concerned about that crossover pipe either. It's pretty beefy and there was nothing wrong with mine when I took it out.

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[mahhdd]

This is a great thread, but I will say unless you need to, all the maintenance crap (PCV, water pump, etc) isn't worth it at all. Swapping a charger takes an hour or two, everything in the list above is 1600+ in parts and many hours of labor, even DIY, consider injector seals, tools, etc. I already have a ported charger but needed to do PCV now and figured I'd do it all as well, it's a huge pain in the ass and not as worth it at all when just doing a swap.

Honestly don't know why everyone is concerned about that crossover pipe either. It's pretty beefy and there was nothing wrong with mine when I took it out.

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I think I follow; but, I'm pretty sure my PCV needs attention, as I've had a small drop in coolant. I had the HX install with a coolant flush done at 65k miles, now at 71.5K I'm mid-way between the Max and Min lines when the engine is warm. It's under the halfway mark when cold.

Assuming my PCV does need replacement, I don't think you're vetoing doing the other parts too, are you? (ported supercharger not included - I'm going to hold off)

[nosport]

Probably also the fact, that once the walls are scored the block is pretty much junk, unless you sleeve it and downsize pistons.
There isn't enough meat to bore the cylinders.

Any sort of failure = new short block. Or sleeves with new pistons etc. Then you're also looking at a custom tune, because the engine is now 2.7l.
It all adds up really really fast. Just cheaper alternatives to make more power with.

I think that's why most of the guys chasing numbers etc. Have jumped ship

Sent from my Redmi Note 9 Pro using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Well my another block is already ready.
Sleeved with cast iron 2mm cylinders.
Pistons 82.5mm with same stroke.CR 9.5:1
New engine size now will be 2.85L.
You are totally right, there is no way to make this engine a stroker. Well, time will show how its will work. Hope to push ~40psi boost(overpressure) to this engine. Only the reason i follow this way/this engine is the cost of another engine was very cheap and sleeving is cheap operation in my country.
Forged pistons and rods wasnt a huge deal too.

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[stevemannn]

Well my another block is already ready.
Sleeved with cast iron 2mm cylinders.
Pistons 82.5mm with same stroke.CR 9.5:1
New engine size now will be 2.85L.
You are totally right, there is no way to make this engine a stroker. Well, time will show how its will work. Hope to push ~40psi boost(overpressure) to this engine. Only the reason i follow this way/this engine is the cost of another engine was very cheap and sleeving is cheap operation in my country.
Forged pistons and rods wasnt a huge deal too.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Excited to see the results.
Will this be twincharged? (Turbo+supercharged)


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[nosport]

Excited to see the results.
Will this be twincharged? (Turbo+supercharged)


Sent from my Redmi Note 9 Pro using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Just Turbo.

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[stevemannn]

Very cool. Looking forward to it

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[djn876]

I think I follow; but, I'm pretty sure my PCV needs attention, as I've had a small drop in coolant. I had the HX install with a coolant flush done at 65k miles, now at 71.5K I'm mid-way between the Max and Min lines when the engine is warm. It's under the halfway mark when cold.

Assuming my PCV does need replacement, I don't think you're vetoing doing the other parts too, are you? (ported supercharger not included - I'm going to hold off)If it needs to be done definitely go for it. I'm just not in favor of replacing a bunch of stuff that's not broken, unless it's high miles already. If you did a bunch of coolant work, the level will drop some over time for a little while as it self bleeds. Usually PCV is oil burning, slow coolant loss on its own is usually IC, but again could be just from the previous work.

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[Shane Horning]

It all comes down to if you don't mind removing the charger a few times and also how long you plan on keeping the car. On my car the pcv started putting coolant into eng at 79k miles. Luckily I caught it early with only a teaspoon of coolant in the oil. However it could have screwed my eng if I would have been on a long trip or wouldn't have caught it. A 170$ pcv is cheap peace of mind

[mahhdd]

Probably also the fact, that once the walls are scored the block is pretty much junk, unless you sleeve it and downsize pistons.
There isn't enough meat to bore the cylinders.

Any sort of failure = new short block. Or sleeves with new pistons etc. Then you're also looking at a custom tune, because the engine is now 2.7l.
It all adds up really really fast. Just cheaper alternatives to make more power with.

I think that's why most of the guys chasing numbers etc. Have jumped ship

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I actually didn't know this, and this sucks to hear.

[mahhdd]

If it needs to be done definitely go for it. I'm just not in favor of replacing a bunch of stuff that's not broken, unless it's high miles already. If you did a bunch of coolant work, the level will drop some over time for a little while as it self bleeds. Usually PCV is oil burning, slow coolant loss on its own is usually IC, but again could be just from the previous work.

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Actually. I didn't think of this!!! Makes total sense, and this may be my issue!! I'll check my coolant taking markings periodically to see if there's any major changes.

[Albertaholdings]

This is a great thread, but I will say unless you need to, all the maintenance crap (PCV, water pump, etc) isn't worth it at all. Swapping a charger takes an hour or two, everything in the list above is 1600+ in parts and many hours of labor, even DIY, consider injector seals, tools, etc. I already have a ported charger but needed to do PCV now and figured I'd do it all as well, it's a huge pain in the ass and not as worth it at all when just doing a swap.

Honestly don't know why everyone is concerned about that crossover pipe either. It's pretty beefy and there was nothing wrong with mine when I took it out.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Anyone charging over a hour to switch the supercharger is ripping you off. I can do it in under 30mins, under 15mins if I'm in a hurry.

https://youtu.be/xHBhiLngWXY

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[mahhdd]

Anyone charging over a hour to switch the supercharger is ripping you off. I can do it in under 30mins, under 15mins if I'm in a hurry.

https://youtu.be/xHBhiLngWXY

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Question #27 added [:D]

[nosport]

Are you going to do any head work (porting/ polishing) or bigger valves? I’ve never seen any head specs on these engines and nobody talks about them so are they good enough from factory?


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Well. After do some inspection. Going to make a porting of intake valves and make oversized exhaust side +1mm :)

[djn876]

Anyone charging over a hour to switch the supercharger is ripping you off. I can do it in under 30mins, under 15mins if I'm in a hurry.

https://youtu.be/xHBhiLngWXY

Sent from my GM1917 using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)No one charges me anything because I do my own work. I could do it faster but I just prefer taking my time since it isn't like I'm doing it every day, and would include system bleeding the too. Plus if the charger is off, I'll use the FCP warranty to swap ICs for free which adds some time as well.

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[djn876]

It all comes down to if you don't mind removing the charger a few times and also how long you plan on keeping the car. On my car the pcv started putting coolant into eng at 79k miles. Luckily I caught it early with only a teaspoon of coolant in the oil. However it could have screwed my eng if I would have been on a long trip or wouldn't have caught it. A 170$ pcv is cheap peace of mindI get that for sure that's why I said if higher miles might be worth it. But I will say I have zero desire to do that coolant crossover pipe again, and even at 5 years and 70k, it wasn't brittle at all or had any damage to it. Not worth it IMO. The rest of the work wasn't bad and I don't have any issue pulling the charger to do work every now and then if required. I just feel a lot of times it gets made out to be easy peasy and take an extra 20 minutes to swap all those other parts and that's not the case. Again though, i'm for preventive maintenance at the right time, but not every time it's off.

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[mahhdd]

What I've learned so far is in negative da 3.1pr, 0 da 3.2pr, 1000da, 3.3pr, 2000da 3.4pr, 3000+ da 3.4 to 3.5 pr.

I'm coming back to this, and it's my first time paying attention to Density Altitude. I'm in Georgia, and I was pretty shocked to learn it could fluctuate so much! I'm currently -650 DA and it was +1700 DA the other day. What's the philosophy for planning around these fluctuations???

[Shane Horning]

I'm coming back to this, and it's my first time paying attention to Density Altitude. I'm in Georgia, and I was pretty shocked to learn it could fluctuate so much! I'm currently -650 DA and it was +1700 DA the other day. What's the philosophy for planning around these fluctuations???Well actually I kinda worded it wrong, I would say it should more be based of altitude. However just a baseline, kinda take an average da and match the pr to that.

[mahhdd]

Well actually I kinda worded it wrong, I would say it should more be based of altitude. However just a baseline, kinda take an average da and match the pr to that.

Throw out a min and max number for reliability in GA
I don't want to blow motors or be lifting heads [>_<]

[Fresh.S4]

Anyone charging over a hour to switch the supercharger is ripping you off. I can do it in under 30mins, under 15mins if I'm in a hurry.

https://youtu.be/xHBhiLngWXY

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was gonna call you out on the BS time because im at about 30min.

daaaaaaaaaaaaamn you fast homie!!!

[Albertaholdings]

was gonna call you out on the BS time because im at about 30min.

daaaaaaaaaaaaamn you fast homie!!!Only thing you don't see in the video is me cutting the belt because I wasn't going to use it again. I highly recommend getting a belt tool if you don't have one. I also don't have the side pieces on ever as they don't fit with my big blower. But that's just 4 t25's. Really can do a swap in under 15mins. Longest part is usually the getting the belt back on as I run them as tight as I can get them.

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[Shane Horning]

Throw out a min and max number for reliability in GA
I don't want to blow motors or be lifting heads [>_<]If you see negative da I'd run 3.3pr

[sepheroth86]

If you see negative da I'd run 3.3pr

All this sort of talk had me worried for a bit. Here in Michigan I'd imagine similar winter time DA as upstate NY. But after running the numbers again, my plan on 189 crank and 57.75 blower will work out to a nice 3.27 ratio. 👌

[Shane Horning]

All this sort of talk had me worried for a bit. Here in Michigan I'd imagine similar winter time DA as upstate NY. But after running the numbers again, my plan on 189 crank and 57.75 blower will work out to a nice 3.27 ratio. [emoji108]Yes that's a nice pr for us close to sea level!

[hunter_killer]

I’m slightly confused, didn’t you say earlier in this thread that in negative DA to run a 3.1 PR or have I missed something along the way?


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[Shane Horning]

I’m slightly confused, didn’t you say earlier in this thread that in negative DA to run a 3.1 PR or have I missed something along the way?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)There isn't a specific pr for a specific da but if you only run your car in negative da I'd recommend somewhere around 3.1 to 3.2ish. However da is always changing so obviously can't always be changing pr but just something to keep in mind when buying pulleys

[hunter_killer]

There isn't a specific pr for a specific da but if you only run your car in negative da I'd recommend somewhere around 3.1 to 3.2ish. However da is always changing so obviously can't always be changing pr but just something to keep in mind when buying pulleys

That’s what I thought, just wanted make sure I was on the same page.


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[wootwoot]

Does a ported supercharger provide gains under partial throttle conditions or would you only notice a performance difference at WOT?

[Shane Horning]

Does a ported supercharger provide gains under partial throttle conditions or would you only notice a performance difference at WOT?I'll let someone else answer that as I've ran a ported charger basically right after going dp, but I would think its probably not a big increase at part throttle

[RoofRails]

Does a ported supercharger provide gains under partial throttle conditions or would you only notice a performance difference at WOT?Not really, not in the way say a dual pulley upgrade would make your throttle feel more responsive. A ported blower makes power by creating more boost by reducing air flow restrictions. Under part throttle conditions your BPV is partially open and your ECU is controlling the boost to make the torque your right foot has requested. Under WOT the bypass is closed and allows the ported blower to make more PSI then your non ported blower. My Ported blower feels the same at part throttle as my stock blower.

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[mahhdd]

I'll update my original post a bit later. It's needing to be updated.

How does porting a supercharger effect the supercharger whine? Does it make it a lower/higher pitched whine? I know it increases the volume?

Another question I had was about drivability/streetability. Someone said that a port job would increase drivability; but, I don't fully understand why or how.

[hunter_killer]

^ To add to your last question; there was somebody who didn’t like the aggressive porting job and ended up getting a less aggressive port job. Why would a aggressive port not be ideal for a daily driver?


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[BrokeBichB8]

Flame suit on.

How come nobody trims/modifies the rotors? The rotors are thick on the inlet end where they could be much thinner no?

[sepheroth86]

Flame suit on.

How come nobody trims/modifies the rotors? The rotors are thick on the inlet end where they could be much thinner no?

I believe that the rotors seal against the case and one another to push the air.

[BrokeBichB8]

I believe that the rotors seal against the case and one another to push the air.

That is a true statement. But why do the rotors have to seal against each other along the whole supercharger? The spot where the supercharger rotors seal moves as the rotors turn.

I only ask because the rotors packs are supposedly mass produced to fit other charger designs, and its one of the last places of the charger that remains untouched.

[sepheroth86]

I believe that if there were efficiency to have been gained in that area of the rotor pack that Eaton would have taken it. They have been losing market share due to inefficiency and cost to turbochargers for years. The TVS lineup was them putting all their engineering might into closing that gap.

Essentially, the only difference in the old style roots blowers and the TVS is the rotor itself.

[BrokeBichB8]

You've got to remember they're trying to make money too though, and sacrificing efficiency for extra machining intricacy and time is something they would do. Why get another 10-15 hp and 5% blower efficiency when it will cost an extra 5 hours of machine time??? That's why we port our superchargers in the first place. The charger casting is meant to be a consumers balance of power and cost effectiveness.

The charger is designed for the consumer in mind. Eaton would have definitely done some things different if they designed the charger to be spun at a 3.26+ pulley ratio with high performance fuel. Not saying its a bad design with huge flaws, but engineers do cut corners for $$.

Which leads me to return. If the rotors seal against themselves and the twisting rotor moves that seal, why not thin out the rotor tips by the inlet and get more inlet airflow. Im thinking it would only improve efficiency?

[sepheroth86]

You've got to remember they're trying to make money too though, and sacrificing efficiency for extra machining intricacy and time is something they would do. Why get another 10-15 hp and 5% blower efficiency when it will cost an extra 5 hours of machine time??? That's why we port our superchargers in the first place. The charger casting is meant to be a consumers balance of power and cost effectiveness.

The charger is designed for the consumer in mind. Eaton would have definitely done some things different if they designed the charger to be spun at a 3.26+ pulley ratio with high performance fuel. Not saying its a bad design with huge flaws, but engineers do cut corners for $$.

Which leads me to return. If the rotors seal against themselves and the twisting rotor moves that seal, why not thin out the rotor tips by the inlet and get more inlet airflow. Im thinking it would only improve efficiency?

While twin screw are a bit of a different animal. Whipple makes performance, custom superchargers with an emphasis on efficiency and performance. They do not perform what you are talking about doing. They have spent millions on custom tooling and equipment, so I would think if there were gains in your idea Whipple would have done it.

As far as the case goes, that is all Audi's inefficiency. The sizing of the blower fit Audi's needs for performance on these engines.

Eaton offers multiple rotor pack sizes if more performance is desired. Audi didn't want more performance.

I read somewhere that it takes around 15 minutes to machine a set of rotors.

If you want, try your theory on your rotors. I would measure inlet and output cfm before and after, if possible (I'd think a flow bench is needed here). Remember that more heat will increase boost PSI so boost pressure is not always an accurate measure of increased flow.

[mahhdd]

^ To add to your last question; there was somebody who didn’t like the aggressive porting job and ended up getting a less aggressive port job.

Really? On here?

What were his gripes?

[hunter_killer]

Really? On here?

What were his gripes?

slowwa6 on YT said he traded his ported blower for a more aggressive blower stating the other guy didn’t like how aggressive it was for driving. That’s all the info given out. Hence why I was curious if there was an answer to be given or not.


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[RoofRails]

Flame suit on.

How come nobody trims/modifies the rotors? The rotors are thick on the inlet end where they could be much thinner no?

Have you seen this done on other supercharged platforms or are you just spit balling ?

[sepheroth86]

Have you seen this done on other supercharged platforms or are you just spit balling ?

Whipple spent millions of dollars on new equipment and an entire proprietary process to make the rotors as tight as possible to themselves and the case.

While our blowers are different than a twin screw, I would imagine the same principles apply.

[RoofRails]

Whipple spent millions of dollars on new equipment and an entire proprietary process to make the rotors as tight as possible to themselves and the case.

While our blowers are different than a twin screw, I would imagine the same principles apply.

I agree with you 100%. Their dimensions to the case and each other are critical and the length and diameter determine the volume of air they will flow so I was just curious where the idea of removing material from them to flow more came from.

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[Shane Horning]

slowwa6 on YT said he traded his ported blower for a more aggressive blower stating the other guy didn’t like how aggressive it was for driving. I believe Shane may of ported that aggressive blower. That’s all the info given out. Hence why I was curious if there was an answer to be given or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Please don't start rumors. I sold that charger to a fellow and his shop, Ostar motorsports, refused to install it because I had the center support removed. They claimed that it wouldn't last more than a few weeks [emoji2962][emoji2962]. They funny thing is I have dozens of those ports running without a single issue. Never was there a problem that a fellow ran a good aggressive port and didn't like it.

[sepheroth86]

I agree with you 100%. Their dimensions to the case and each other are critical and the length and diameter determine the volume of air they will flow so I was just curious where the idea of removing material from them to flow more came from.


I suspect that in order to get proper scavenging that the inlet end of the rotor needs to seal against the case and create a sharp cutoff point. So making them narrower on the inlet end would then hurt performance.

However, that is only a suspicion since I have not done any testing on that matter and my understanding of fluid dynamics is limited at best.

[hunter_killer]

Please don't start rumors. I sold that charger to a fellow and his shop, Ostar motorsports, refused to install it because I had the center support removed. They claimed that it wouldn't last more than a few weeks [emoji2962][emoji2962]. They funny thing is I have dozens of those ports running without a single issue. Never was there a problem that a fellow ran a good aggressive port and didn't like it.

Edited my post then* Definitely not starting rumors (or wanting to) about anyone, just posting up back up to the reason of my question. Obviously it was stated wrong from Thornton then about why the blowers got switched.


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[BrokeBichB8]

Have you seen this done on other supercharged platforms or are you just spit balling ?

I haven't see a single person modify a rotor pack. Online you'll find a lot of supercharger port work of the casing. But I mean there's not a lot of people who modify superchargers in the world as a whole. lol. I work in a place that uses a lot of screw based material moving equipment and the leading edge of every screw usually has some kind of edge taper or smoothing/thin leading edge. My question/idea comes about because I had my supercharger apart when I was porting it, and I was just staring at each inlet, surface, and edge thinking, "How can flow be smoothed or improved?" Sharp edges create, heat/friction/turbulence and that is bad for flow. So I tried smoothing every single edge and rounding every single corner in the charger. except for the rotor packs...



I suspect that in order to get proper scavenging that the inlet end of the rotor needs to seal against the case and create a sharp cutoff point. So making them narrower on the inlet end would then hurt performance.

However, that is only a suspicion since I have not done any testing on that matter and my understanding of fluid dynamics is limited at best.

If I didnt change any of the contact points of the rotors, and they sealed against the case the case the same, just thinner blades at the inlet, do you think that would effect scavenging?

Ive got an extra rotor pack which has some peeling coating, so a good candidate, but I just wanna discuss if anything would be a total wreck of the charger design. lol I mean I hate to be devils advocate on this forum, but I cant just go to the local car meet and ask, even guys with gt500's got no clue what's in their supercharger. lol

Thanks

[Shane Horning]

Edited my post then* Definitely not starting rumors (or wanting to) about anyone, just posting up back up to the reason of my question. Obviously it was stated wrong from Thornton then about why the blowers got switched.


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[Fresh.S4]

Please don't start rumors. I sold that charger to a fellow and his shop, Ostar motorsports, refused to install it because I had the center support removed. They claimed that it wouldn't last more than a few weeks [emoji2962][emoji2962]. They funny thing is I have dozens of those ports running without a single issue. Never was there a problem that a fellow ran a good aggressive port and didn't like it.

not saying it doesnt work...i mean its still technically being held by the bearing housing and the gears in the snout.
but it took jokerz a couple years to finally come out and say fill and cut is no bueno. and literally no one ever posted those problems but he said it was enough people complaining on the sidelines to him that he had to r&d a newer port revision (which is like his 4th-5th revision)

so it may work now but only time will tell whats going on. very rare to find anyone now who has had their s4 for more than a few years.
were talking maybe a 3/4" 2mm thick brace, is airflow really gonna change just keeping it for structure integrity?
with the brace in place, i would imagine the rotor pack stays perfectly balanced inside the bearings.
without the brace, id imagine that the rotors would then put unnecessary stress on the bearings/housing because they now are forced to hold the weight of the rotor packs + vibration if that's a real thing... and this actually sounds very plausible because theirs a current thread on the fb pages about why folks are posting pictures of their rotor packs with missing coating and damaged rotor blades.

i also remember that specific post on the fb pages

[Shane Horning]

not saying it doesnt work...i mean its still technically being held by the bearing housing and the gears in the snout.
but it took jokerz a couple years to finally come out and say fill and cut is no bueno. and literally no one ever posted those problems but he said it was enough people complaining on the sidelines to him that he had to r&d a newer port revision (which is like his 4th-5th revision)

so it may work now but only time will tell whats going on. very rare to find anyone now who has had their s4 for more than a few years.
were talking maybe a 3/4" 2mm thick brace, is airflow really gonna change just keeping it for structure integrity?
with the brace in place, i would imagine the rotor pack stays perfectly balanced inside the bearings.
without the brace, id imagine that the rotors would then put unnecessary stress on the bearings/housing because they now are forced to hold the weight of the rotor packs + vibration if that's a real thing... and this actually sounds very plausible because theirs a current thread on the fb pages about why folks are posting pictures of their rotor packs with missing coating and damaged rotor blades.

i also remember that specific post on the fb pagesI completely understand your concerns and that is why I let the brace in unless customer wants it removed however did you know that brace has nothing to do with supporting or keeping the rotor pack centered? It is there to support the housing floor, in no way will it put more stress on the bearings or rotor pack but worse case it could cause the floor to warp. Does it make a power difference? From the tests I did its very small, that's why I rarely remove it.

[sepheroth86]

Missing coating is likely due to thermal expansion from so many dual pulley folks running these blowers well past the recommended 20,000 rpm.

[mahhdd]

Missing coating is likely due to thermal expansion from so many dual pulley folks running these blowers well past the recommended 20,000 rpm.

Some say it's meth injection
Some say it's thermal expansion/heat
The lack of bracing/vibration is a new one to me.

I did see that Facebook thread; but, it's been a while since I last visited.

Interesting thread.

The max rpm rating on a stock blower is 24,000 rpm

[sepheroth86]

Some say it's meth injection
Some say it's thermal expansion/heat
The lack of bracing/vibration is a new one to me.

I did see that Facebook thread; but, it's been a while since I last visited.

Interesting thread.

The max rpm rating on a stock blower is 24,000 rpm

Meth will also eat the epoxy coating.

Eaton says 20,000rpm.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/engine-solutions/tvs-r1320.specifications.html

[mahhdd]

Meth will also eat the epoxy coating.

Eaton says 20,000rpm.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/engine-solutions/tvs-r1320.specifications.html

That's what they say; but, pretty much everyone else pushes it up to 24,000 for power gains, and it seems to be reliable.

P.S. It's also possible that number has changed. There was a copy+paste from an old thread that showed the 24,000 figure.

[SuitedUp2The9s]

Windshield washer fluid with detergents used as meth seems to eat the rotor coating.

Some good info in regards to meth:
https://prometh.com/blogs/tech/72804675-can-i-spray-water-methanol-injection-through-my-eaton-supercharger

[sepheroth86]

That's what they say; but, pretty much everyone else pushes it up to 24,000 for power gains, and it seems to be reliable.

P.S. It's also possible that number has changed. There was a copy+paste from an old thread that showed the 24,000 figure.

I would imagine they give themselves some engineering leeway in that figure. However, it doesn't change the fact that the manufacturer of the rotorpack says 20,000.

Regardless, if you look at the compressor map at 20,000rpm it is way outside its ideal range and a larger blower is more suited to move more cfm at a lower blower speed (which also gives us less heat).

[mahhdd]

I would imagine they give themselves some engineering leeway in that figure. However, it doesn't change the fact that the manufacturer of the rotorpack says 20,000.

Regardless, if you look at the compressor map at 20,000rpm it is way outside its ideal range and a larger blower is more suited to move more cfm at a lower blower speed (which also gives us less heat).

Yup, not arguing any of those.

[Fresh.S4]

I would imagine they give themselves some engineering leeway in that figure. However, it doesn't change the fact that the manufacturer of the rotorpack says 20,000.

Regardless, if you look at the compressor map at 20,000rpm it is way outside its ideal range and a larger blower is more suited to move more cfm at a lower blower speed (which also gives us less heat).

exactly this too.
shifts shouldnt be higher than 5k-5500rpms. really no need to ring out the rpms AND the supercharger all for the sake of an extra 20hp.

[mahhdd]

shifts shouldnt be higher than 5k-5500rpms.

.[o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o].

[tastyratz]

#7 What are the other benefits: You mentioned lower IAT as a benefit. I would say that is a little misleading. People have been claiming this forever (increased efficiency) but has anyone actually proved it ? To me decreased IAT means if I was hitting 60C at the end of a 1/4 mile pre-ported blower then after the port if all other factors are equal I will see less then 60C.

That wasn't what I saw after my ported blower. I saw more boost for sure and my IAT did not skyrocket but it definitely did not go down.




Wouldn't 3-4 additional PSI with no change in IAT's be proof of less heat for the same total psi/cfm/whp? Absolute vs relative.
A PR change to get 4 additional psi would be apples to apples in that respect.

[wrxkyle]

Wouldn't 3-4 additional PSI with no change in IAT's be proof of less heat for the same total psi/cfm/whp? Absolute vs relative.
A PR change to get 4 additional psi would be apples to apples in that respect.

yes that's what he is saying. your iat's wont go down, but your psi will go up.

that doesn't help you if you're bleeding boost from too high of iat's, unless you plan to port just so you can go lower pr for same boost, which isn't the point normally to port.

it's like how a bigger turbo can give you better mpg because it is less of a restriction, but it doesn't because you'll put your food down and get rid of those gains real fast in turn for more smiles.

[RoofRails]

Wouldn't 3-4 additional PSI with no change in IAT's be proof of less heat for the same total psi/cfm/whp? Absolute vs relative.
A PR change to get 4 additional psi would be apples to apples in that respect.

My point was the way people describe the reduced IAT is misleading. You will still be fighting the same IAT issues you had before the ported blower.

[tastyratz]

yes that's what he is saying. your iat's wont go down, but your psi will go up.

that doesn't help you if you're bleeding boost from too high of iat's, unless you plan to port just so you can go lower pr for same boost, which isn't the point normally to port.

it's like how a bigger turbo can give you better mpg because it is less of a restriction, but it doesn't because you'll put your food down and get rid of those gains real fast in turn for more smiles.


Sort of,
More boost means more airflow... which would normally mean more heat to go with the additional airflow from the additional SC rpm. Let's say you wanted to stick to a 24k rpm cap. This lets you get the boost of a higher ratio without pushing over. You're gaining efficiency at the limit where you might have pushed your IAT's to the moon trying to get that via PR. You can reach it at a lower SC rpm which = lower total btu's per cfm.

Not a lower IAT than before but more power without additional IAT. I'd rather port than up the pulley.

[Fresh.S4]

A good port even on a stage 1/ no pulley will still gain you 1-3psi. With no additional heat problems.

[RoofRails]

Sort of,
More boost means more airflow... which would normally mean more heat to go with the additional airflow from the additional SC rpm. Let's say you wanted to stick to a 24k rpm cap. This lets you get the boost of a higher ratio without pushing over. You're gaining efficiency at the limit where you might have pushed your IAT's to the moon trying to get that via PR. You can reach it at a lower SC rpm which = lower total btu's per cfm.

Not a lower IAT than before but more power without additional IAT. I'd rather port than up the pulley.

I agree with this. This is actually the route I went. I'm running Jokers new port ,
APR UC and a 3.17 pulley ratio and its a absolute beast. Only issue I have is that now is having more air then fuel. Seems to be that if you are running a good port and TB near sea level without meth you will most likely be running into fueling problems.

[mahhdd]

Rings have been our Achilles heel. Under excessive heat they grow and the the ring gap closes causing the ring to buckle in on itself scratch the cylinder walls and drop compression. I believe its related to a lean condition but others are saying it's related to cylinder pressure. Oleg was running more boost then any of us for quite some time because he had his fueling figured out. Same for the turbo B8.5 Mario built.

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I passed along some info to 034 and they were able to address some of their thoughts on this week's Q&A about the Piston Rings
Check the 46:41 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js-PvVBZz9A&t=2802s

Worth the listen for anyone in here. They talked about it for a good 10 minutes.

[RoofRails]

I passed along some info to 034 and they were able to address some of their thoughts on this week's Q&A about the Piston Rings
Check the 46:41 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js-PvVBZz9A&t=2802s

Worth the listen for anyone in here. They talked about it for a good 10 minutes.I just listened and they said that the rings aren't our issue but fueling was. Good we agree with that and I clearly stated that the excessive heat was a result of a lean condition. By getting caught up in what exactly happens once the cylinder goes lean is not as important as finding out how to prevent that from happening in the first place.

A question I still have though is why is the scored cylinder wall / lost compression on a single cylinder. Is that typical amongst other platforms as well ? I think we have all seen a pattern with cylinder 5 as well. I do see other cylinders joining the party but #5 is a over achiever.

We throw lots of ideas and theories around on these pages and it's often time the debate that spawns a answer or a solution. Thanks for entering into the debate 034, it sounds like this still needs more discussion but we agree it's a fueling issue.


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[mahhdd]

My thought is email them. [email protected]

[Fresh.S4]

.[o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o][o_o].

keep ringing that 7200 rpm on a ported dp setup lol.....
(not you specifically, but in general)

[mahhdd]

keep ringing that 7200 rpm on a ported dp setup lol.....
(not you specifically, but in general)

But 5,000 to 5,500 RPM? What pulley ratio are you suggesting here? That's cutting out ~75whp from your shifting that early. So it would be like you're porting to gain ~30whp just to worry and shut down your shift sooner.

7,000+ RPM generates a ton of heat, so I get moving the shift point down between 6,500-7,000... But where did 5,000-5,500 come from?

[hunter_killer]

I just listened and they said that the rings aren't our issue but fueling was. Good we agree with that and I clearly stated that the excessive heat was a result of a lean condition. By getting caught up in what exactly happens once the cylinder goes lean is not as important as finding out how to prevent that from happening in the first place.

A question I still have though is why is the scored cylinder wall / lost compression on a single cylinder. Is that typical amongst other platforms as well ? I think we have all seen a pattern with cylinder 5 as well. I do see other cylinders joining the party but #5 is a over achiever.

We throw lots of ideas and theories around on these pages and it's often time the debate that spawns a answer or a solution. Thanks for entering into the debate 034, it sounds like this still needs more discussion but we agree it's a fueling issue.


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The back cylinder (in some odd design) must have issues with fueling, air flow, exhaust flow, cooling, etc in or out of it. Number 8 in small block Mopars were notorious for being out of round, going lean, having issues in general in that cylinder more than any others. MB 5.4 Kompressor’s had issues on number 8 as well if I recall correctly. I think it had to do with fueling and too much heat would build up in the cylinder, I’d have to ask my buddy about it for certain, but I’ve been told that headers helped scavenge the exhaust gasses out a lot better and mostly solved the problem. I’m not Mercedes guy so wether that’s fact or fiction, I’m just adding to the debate.


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[mahhdd]

This may sound really, really dumb; but, for LS1 motors, the rear cylinders were problematic as well. It always tends to be the rear pistons it seems... It was explained to me a decade ago that the rush of air going through the intake manifold tended to always hit the back of the motor (air velocity and the air's momentum). So more air would always be in the back of the motor, leaning it out, and it's the ECU and the fuel injectors job to make up for the extra air that's present.

Could it be hotter at the back of the engine bay, too? I'm sure. I just don't know by how much, and whether it makes a difference. I'm curious what the difference in heat is from front to back.

Why only cylinder #5 and not #6? Not sure. Have we seen any #6's go?


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[sepheroth86]

On old B series Honda engines it is cylinder #2. Gets more air, leans out, melts a piston.

[Shane Horning]

What confuses me tho is I've installed new spark plugs many times and did a few wot pulls then pulled them and they always looked super consistent. However I've never had issues with my personal car with low compression, more knock on certain cylinders or misfiring issues. However with my ported charger and 3.45 pr i always struggle with timing correction across all cylinders in negative da on e40 file,even when blending with race fuel. Not sure what the issue is but that's why I won't run e40 file in cold temps. I've ran 10.3 in 0 da, mabe in negative 3k da I could run 10.1 but I'm not gonna risk blowing my eng.

[RoofRails]

That was my guess on CYL 5. Seeing as it lives between to cylinders it may run hotter then 4 and 6 and possibly bank 2 gets a little less fuel pressure then bank one due to the hard fuel line routing.

[Fresh.S4]

Someone old enough back me up... I could a swore someone posted info that their ARE certain cylinders that get lesser flow then others through the supercharger... I know I read it either here or the fb page.

And what exactly is cold for e40?

[RoofRails]

And what exactly is cold for e40?

The broad answer is the point at which the DA/temps gets low enough that your new found Horsepower has exceeded the capacity of your fuel system. There will be many variables in determining where that point is and it will depend on your mod list and what the current health of your fuel system is. The Low outside air temps that always seem to accompany a low DA are keeping your IAT temps low and that's going to give you all of the available timing your map has to offer which is going to translate to more HP and more fuel needed to support that HP. I don't do 60-130 pulls since I drive a shoe box but having watched how my IAT behaves obsessively I can say that cruising at 60mph in 30F Ambient will drop your starting IAT to a extremely low point and in the time it takes to go 60-130 your heated coolant will not make a full revolution back to your IC bricks. Seems like that activity may be a little more of a test for your fuel system then some other forms of speed metrics. There is a reason they call it boost season !!!

[RoofRails]

And just like that we forgot all about Porting Blowers and turned all our attention to Cylinder # 5. I read a post today about port matching to the blower speed from Brett with Jokers that I thought was interesting and figured I would share it for those of you not on Facebook.

"My idea I had to do with opening up the rotor inlet face in the shape of the rotor profile in relation to the outlet. We went to a depth in the inlet that had a relationship with the outlet. This gives us our inlet duration in relation to the outlet. We later found out after a couple years of studying this inlet will work as LONG AS THE CORRECT RPM IS MATCHED TO INLET DURATION. What's this mean? The amount you port at the rotor face has to match a specific rpm in order to achieve an optimal efficiency range. To much port work will still make power over stock but you are robbing yourself of horsepower of up to 50+ HP and TQ if your not running the correct blower in correlation to port work. Simple saying to remember is more port work takes more horsepower and torque to turn the blower. You may ask the question “can I just spin it harder?”. The answer is yes but what becomes a restriction next, a cooling issue possibly or maybe some broken parts? When you push a supercharger harder you need to make sure your inlet volume is sufficient, make sure your intercooler system is ready for extra heat, throttle body size is adequate, flow post blower is willing to accept the extra air, and most importantly the parts inside the blower taking a toll. For example most of our base ports we sell will work at all levels on a car. I would never sell a high end port job to someone going for a 10% increase in HP cause it will absolutely kill power and wont be beneficial to your needs. Simply put you can make more HP with less pulley keeping the blower cooler and more efficient for a longer period of time".

"There is a range of rpm in every blower platform in which you can range your port work. Would you rather have a complete power band or one peak number that is flat below the curve and barely pulls to rpm? Well I have the answer for that. Our new race ports now utilize the proper duration of inlet duration based on that persons blower rpm. We ask you your pulley combo and we port the blower to your pulley combo. We tailor your blower for your application resulting in the best possible performance for your car. Note if the port work is tailored for a specific blower rpm DOES NOT MEAN it wont work with other pulley combos. However I would not go selling a guy with a .10 smaller pulley then stock a race package port!
My ideas worked by hand but couldn't be brought to their full potential unless a CNC could help profile, remove and design the inlet material I wanted or needed. I want to thank LMT for the talent they bring to my business".

[mahhdd]

I 100% have curbed the idea of going ported blower until the JXB PI kit gets ironed out [:D]

I wasn't at that point anyways though.

[sepheroth86]

I 100% have curbed the idea of going ported blower until the JXB PI kit gets ironed out [:D]

I wasn't at that point anyways though.

Might as well get the Merc blower upgrade vs porting the stock blower. If one is waiting for port injection. Since the issue with ported blower and a larger blower both will need more fuel.

And the bigger blower is likely to make a lot more power.

[Fresh.S4]

i saw bretts statement as well. all that really means i think is that the bearing housing needs to be shaped like a ball sack so that it matches the rifling on the rotors. none of us are hitting 50+hp gain from a port so it doesn't really all apply to us with this specific statement and of course a port needs a larger matched tb for flow.
I really dont see the merc blower being a game changer. The cost is going to be VERY high (if the custom jokerz bricks gives any idea of pricing on just those) and to add to that, theirs already a few larger custom chargers floating around and you NEVER hear about them.
port injection is promising but by the time they go out, all the big boy players will have already moved on because of blown motors and getting out of the game.
their isnt much of any problem with "fueling" if folks can discipline themselves on pump gas/ race gas. the problem is, folks are challenging ethanol and DA (supposedly)

[hunter_killer]

Might as well get the Merc blower upgrade vs porting the stock blower. If one is waiting for port injection. Since the issue with ported blower and a larger blower both will need more fuel.

And the bigger blower is likely to make a lot more power.

JXB PI will be out a long time before Jose’s blower. I haven’t seen or heard of an update on it for quite some time. Last I asked was back in late November though…Just checked and haven’t seen anything about the B8 supercharger. Guess we will continue to wait.


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[mahhdd]

The issue with aftermarket blowers will be "who will develop a tune to support them?"

I don't think there are many who are serious looking to drop $6,000+++ on a new blower... Especially when we're running into power ceiling issues... OTS tuners aren't going to be like, "Oh wow! A new blower is out. Let's dump time and resources into making a new set of tunes for the 5 people who actually want to do this over 3 years. I hope they pick us!!!"

Edited: Relevant 034 Response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js-PvVBZz9A&t=1705s)

VPS 3.0t Blower Kit (https://www.verstarkt.com/supercharger-systems/30t) - $9,995 - Not including other supporting mods. Includes a Tune.

[hunter_killer]

People who want to keep pushing their car more will find a way to get a tune. Regardless of OTS support or not. Wouldn’t be different if someone went and did a turbo swap. That person will get a tune for that setup. Now with a bigger blower, didn’t 034 way in a live chat or two day that a bigger blower tune wasn’t needed in a sense? The factory ecm could cover what was needed to function, again it would be just like a ported blower with hopefully better cooling/ efficiency? Fueling again would still the big issue. Now a turbo swap would be different for a tune to get the most out of it. Regardless this platform should’ve taken off long time ago and only now is stuff like JXB coming along with much needed items. If Jose’s blower does actually come to fruition and actually does a lot better than anything else it’ll take off.


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[tpivette89]

I 100% have curbed the idea of going ported blower until the JXB PI kit gets ironed out [:D]

I wasn't at that point anyways though.

If you are planning on sticking to pump 93 then you don't have to worry about running out of fuel on a ported blower setup. It's only the guys running E40 tunes, in extreme DA, with certain pulley ratios, that are experiencing this. It's a very narrow set of variables that cause this, and it shouldn't make people shy away from ported blowers.

Stock, Stage 1, and Stage 2 cars will benefit from having their blowers ported with zero risk. Only when you begin to push the limits with this platform does the fuel issue present itself. As always, your results may vary, and dedicated logging will reveal any problems with your setup.

[BrokeBichB8]

i saw bretts statement as well. all that really means i think is that the bearing housing needs to be shaped like a ball sack so that it matches the rifling on the rotors. none of us are hitting 50+hp gain from a port so it doesn't really all apply to us with this specific statement and of course a port needs a larger matched tb for flow.
I really dont see the merc blower being a game changer. The cost is going to be VERY high (if the custom jokerz bricks gives any idea of pricing on just those) and to add to that, theirs already a few larger custom chargers floating around and you NEVER hear about them.
port injection is promising but by the time they go out, all the big boy players will have already moved on because of blown motors and getting out of the game.
their isnt much of any problem with "fueling" if folks can discipline themselves on pump gas/ race gas. the problem is, folks are challenging ethanol and DA (supposedly)

The hard part of that is "what is the race/pump gas octane requirement for the e40 tune?" Gotta be familiar enough with alchy/ethanol to have an idea how to get there.

[RoofRails]

i saw bretts statement as well. all that really means i think is that the bearing housing needs to be shaped like a ball sack so that it matches the rifling on the rotors. none of us are hitting 50+hp gain from a port so it doesn't really all apply to us with this specific statement and of course a port needs a larger matched tb for flow.
I really dont see the merc blower being a game changer. The cost is going to be VERY high (if the custom jokerz bricks gives any idea of pricing on just those) and to add to that, theirs already a few larger custom chargers floating around and you NEVER hear about them.
port injection is promising but by the time they go out, all the big boy players will have already moved on because of blown motors and getting out of the game.
their isnt much of any problem with "fueling" if folks can discipline themselves on pump gas/ race gas. the problem is, folks are challenging ethanol and DA (supposedly)I do believe this statement applies to us. Its not just the shape of them, its the amount of rotor face you are exposing.
This was the approach he took on his latest port revision. The idea was to get away from the 3.4+ PR. Maybe my Q5 is not the norm, but I made significant gains with his latest port and an 80mm throttle body at a 3.17 pulley ratio. I would bet it's approaching 50hp at the crank.

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[RoofRails]

The hard part of that is "what is the race/pump gas octane requirement for the e40 tune?" Gotta be familiar enough with alchy/ethanol to have an idea how to get there.If you want E40 performance without the 30% extra fuel requirements, you can just run a 104 octane race gas file. E40 offers a bit more knock resistance when the temps get higher, but 104 will hang with E40 , it's just too damn expensive.

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[Albertaholdings]

If you want E40 performance without the 30% extra fuel requirements, you can just run a 104 octane race gas file. E40 offers a bit more knock resistance when the temps get higher, but 104 will hang with E40 , it's just too damn expensive.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)E85 has 30% more fuel requirements. You can do your own math on E40. Remember gas is E10.
People that are running out of fuel have a problem somewhere or a B8.
B8's have a shitty lpfp but still should work good enough in all conditions to keep up with E40.
My car can run on the 1389 MAF limit at E52. Anymore and I'm dropping HPFP pressure.

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[Fresh.S4]

I do believe this statement applies to us. Its not just the shape of them, its the amount of rotor face you are exposing.
This was the approach he took on his latest port revision. The idea was to get away from the 3.4+ PR. Maybe my Q5 is not the norm, but I made significant gains with his latest port and an 80mm throttle body at a 3.17 pulley ratio. I would bet it's approaching 50hp at the crank.

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only so much surrounding (not including the bearing case) that you can remove. Were talking like less than 5mm of wall space. You can def cut out some of the humps on the tb intake side but thats a given. The part I love and just further gives me confidence that i knew what i was doing when i started porting locally is he is now shaping the bearing case how Ive done it all along without needing to use epoxy and without using a cnc machine. Although his cnc does a much better job cutting the outline of the bearings like 1-2mm more than me lol. Ive got small hands which helps but damn he gets rather thin on the bearings lol.

[Shane Horning]

I do believe this statement applies to us. Its not just the shape of them, its the amount of rotor face you are exposing.
This was the approach he took on his latest port revision. The idea was to get away from the 3.4+ PR. Maybe my Q5 is not the norm, but I made significant gains with his latest port and an 80mm throttle body at a 3.17 pulley ratio. I would bet it's approaching 50hp at the crank.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Audizine Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)However what we need to take into consideration is you are close to sea level. For guys running in 3k da I feel there will still be a gain with say a 3.4ish pr vs your 3.17. With my 3.4 pr my car runs same quarter mile trap speed at 1000da as negative 1000da. With a low pr no matter the port I feel there will be a difference in a da change like that. Anyone can make good power with a low pr in negative da

[RoofRails]

[QUOTE=Shane Horning;14709837]However what we need to take into consideration is you are close to sea level. For guys running in 3k da I feel there will still be a gain with say a 3.4ish pr vs your 3.17. With my 3.4 pr my car runs same quarter mile trap speed at 1000da as negative 1000da. With a low pr no matter the port I feel there will be a difference in a da change like that. Anyone can make good power with a low pr in negative da[/QUOTE

I agree you're going to make more power at a lower DA. What I posted about my experience was about the gain between 2 runs in almost identical conditions. I'm sure I will be slower in a higher DA but the the baseline would be slower too so the gain would still be relevant.




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[Shane Horning]

[QUOTE=Shane Horning;14709837]However what we need to take into consideration is you are close to sea level. For guys running in 3k da I feel there will still be a gain with say a 3.4ish pr vs your 3.17. With my 3.4 pr my car runs same quarter mile trap speed at 1000da as negative 1000da. With a low pr no matter the port I feel there will be a difference in a da change like that. Anyone can make good power with a low pr in negative da[/QUOTE

I agree your going to make more power at a lower DA. What I posted about my experience was about the gain between 2 runs in almost identical conditions. I'm sure I will be slower in a higher DA but the the baseline would be slower too so the gain would still be relevant.




Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Well said!

[mahhdd]

If you are planning on sticking to pump 93 then you don't have to worry about running out of fuel on a ported blower setup. It's only the guys running E40 tunes, in extreme DA, with certain pulley ratios, that are experiencing this. It's a very narrow set of variables that cause this, and it shouldn't make people shy away from ported blowers.

Stock, Stage 1, and Stage 2 cars will benefit from having their blowers ported with zero risk. Only when you begin to push the limits with this platform does the fuel issue present itself. As always, your results may vary, and dedicated logging will reveal any problems with your setup.

Thanks for the additional confirmation. I just don't want to be in the blown motor club. There's always the risk of a failed motor when modding; but, that's more than I'd care to afford on this platform. I'm willing to through my money at safeguards, because this is a car I can see myself enjoying for a long time.

That said, I've got E85 less than a mile down the road, my DA can fluctuate between positive and negative, and I'll be running a 3.328 PR.

[mahhdd]

I've got a few questions that have popped up in my head.

I think a lot of people are tempted to do Stage 2+ for the most power, then when they get to porting the blower they back off a bit on doing an aggressive port since they're starting to max out fueling.

The idea of spinning the blower with a 3.3+ pulley ratio (super hard for marginal gain and mostly generating heat) is an idea I've gotten away from. I like options, and the idea of keeping my engine together (keeping temps low); so, one of the ideas I had was just going with a Stage 2 pulley ratio (like 3.1 to 3.2 - I'm a 6MT so I'm not breaking records) and doing an aggressive port on the blower. I figured this is probably the most efficient and lowest risk way to make power, and would probably make just as much power as a Stage 2+ with a mild or normal port job; but, I'm just guessing.

Thoughts?

[RoofRails]

I've got a few questions that have popped up in my head.

I think a lot of people are tempted to do Stage 2+ for the most power, then when they get to porting the blower they back off a bit on doing an aggressive port since they're starting to max out fueling.

The idea of spinning the blower with a 3.3+ pulley ratio (super hard for marginal gain and mostly generating heat) is an idea I've gotten away from. I like options, and the idea of keeping my engine together (keeping temps low); so, one of the ideas I had was just going with a Stage 2 pulley ratio (like 3.1 to 3.2 - I'm a 6MT so I'm not breaking records) and doing an aggressive port on the blower. I figured this is probably the most efficient and lowest risk way to make power, and would probably make just as much power as a Stage 2+ with a mild or normal port job; but, I'm just guessing.

Thoughts?

The line for STG2 2 / STG2+ on 034 is right around a 3.0 ratio. Sea level people running just the lower 190 pulley are close to maxing out the Boost setpoint on that file and in good air it will crack the bypass here and there. So on a 3.1 with a ported blower, you will be at STG2+ boost, so that's the file I would use. As far as the aggressive blower and small ratio I'd be curious myself how that works out. By aggressive port, I'm assuming you mean removing the maximum amount of material around the bearing supports. Most ports open up the inlet as far as you can go. Brett with Jokers has talked about different styles of ports having a max RPM sweet spot. I ran my Jokers Port on a 3.17 ratio and it ran great. I'm just not sure if an "aggressive" port would pair well with a smaller ratio.

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[mahhdd]

By aggressive port, I'm assuming you mean removing the maximum amount of material around the bearing supports.

Yes.


By aggressive port, I'm assuming you mean removing the maximum amount of material around the bearing supports. Most ports open up the inlet as far as you can go. Brett with Jokers has talked about different styles of ports having a max RPM sweet spot. I ran my Jokers Port on a 3.17 ratio and it ran great. I'm just not sure if an "aggressive" port would pair well with a smaller ratio.

Me neither, so I thought I'd ask.

[Brokevw31]

I’m attempting to port an extra charger soon and can’t find concrete evidence if most of the mainstay ports/porters open up the sc outlet(the triangle window in the top of the case). I have tons of reference pictures of the inlet, rotor face and intercooler ports but almost nothing on the outlet..

If anyone has some information(how much they cut out) it would be much appreciated..


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[Brokevw31]

I've got a few questions that have popped up in my head.

I think a lot of people are tempted to do Stage 2+ for the most power, then when they get to porting the blower they back off a bit on doing an aggressive port since they're starting to max out fueling.

The idea of spinning the blower with a 3.3+ pulley ratio (super hard for marginal gain and mostly generating heat) is an idea I've gotten away from. I like options, and the idea of keeping my engine together (keeping temps low); so, one of the ideas I had was just going with a Stage 2 pulley ratio (like 3.1 to 3.2 - I'm a 6MT so I'm not breaking records) and doing an aggressive port on the blower. I figured this is probably the most efficient and lowest risk way to make power, and would probably make just as much power as a Stage 2+ with a mild or normal port job; but, I'm just guessing.

Thoughts?

A low pr ratio of 3.1-3.17 does great job of keeping IAT’s down specially with extra cooling mods.
I would be worried that a full tilt or race port would make a low pr a little laggy down low but roof rails could chime in ( I don’t know what type of port he has)


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[RoofRails]

I’m attempting to port an extra charger soon and can’t find concrete evidence if most of the mainstay ports/porters open up the sc outlet(the triangle window in the top of the case). I have tons of reference pictures of the inlet, rotor face and intercooler ports but almost nothing on the outlet..

If anyone has some information(how much they cut out) it would be much appreciated..


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine ForumNo one touches the outlet. Some of the hand ports go the extra mile, and knife edge the ports that go into the intake runners but not the triangle. I think that's a older style of porting. Most of the V8 stuff I see online leaves that outlet alone as well.

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[Brokevw31]

No one touches the outlet. Some of the hand ports go the extra mile, and knife edge the ports that go into the intake runners but not the triangle. I think that's a older style of porting. Most of the V8 stuff I see online leaves that outlet alone as well.

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Glad I asked !! I only saw one random YouTube video mention the triangle.
Here goes nothing!


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[stevemannn]

I opened up the triangle on mine.
Just got the car back, so can't really comment on 1/4 times or anything,but she runs great

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[stevemannn]

1/4- 1/2 inch I guess depending on where it is

It is insanely thick material though, this took me hours to do alone306819

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[Brokevw31]

1/4- 1/2 inch I guess depending on where it is

It is insanely thick material though, this took me hours to do alone306819

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Let’s us know if u get any data .. mbar increase 1/4 mi time etc.


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[stevemannn]

Won't really be an accurate post compared to the others, since I ported and polished the heads as well.

She still has break in oil in her, so probably won't be for a little while,but I'll update for sure

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[RoofRails]

A low pr ratio of 3.1-3.17 does great job of keeping IAT’s down specially with extra cooling mods.
I would be worried that a full tilt or race port would make a low pr a little laggy down low but roof rails could chime in ( I don’t know what type of port he has)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine ForumI have the newer no epoxy 5 Axis Joker port. I had great results running it with a 3.17pr. Not just it "felt great" but I had a increase in boost and a drop in my 1/4 Mile times. I'm currently playing with a 3.33 ratio and I don't have any data yet other than it "feels" great LOL ! I can definitely see how people end up down the higher and higher PR ratio. The instant low ends response is lots of fun.

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[mahhdd]

I have the newer no epoxy 5 Axis Joker port. I had great results running it with a 3.17pr. Not just it "felt great" but I had a increase in boost and a drop in my 1/4 Mile times. I'm currently playing with a 3.33 ratio and I don't have any data yet other than it "feels" great LOL ! I can definitely see how people end up down the higher and higher PR ratio. The instant low ends response is lots of fun.

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Was it "instant low end" with the 3.17 pr?

[RoofRails]

Was it "instant low end" with the 3.17 pr?It was, the power increase was everywhere. I compared the Map_mes before and after the Jokers Port on a 1/8 mile pass at the same road in similar conditions, and the gains are instant as soon as I launched.

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[RoofRails]

Was it "instant low end" with the 3.17 pr?LOL ! I post so much I forget where and what I posted sometimes. Go to the #6 post in this thread, and you can see the screenshots of the Map_mes difference.

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[sepheroth86]

Seems that the Merc Blower is going to be released well before the JXB port injection.

[SwankPeRFection]

Seems that the Merc Blower is going to be released well before the JXB port injection.

Can’t wait to see how that goes. I’m actually excited and pulling for Jose to see the outcome… to see if he was able to do something even the almighty 🙄 APR couldn’t do years ago. Lol

[Fresh.S4]

that jxb PI is just about dead lol...

[mahhdd]

that jxb PI is just about dead lol...

There's some recent news: Markus is going to the guy who heads it up, so it will be a GPS product and not a JXB product. Whether it comes out will just depend on Markus and if he can work out manufacturing and whatever issues he may have.

[EvolutionArmory]

Can’t wait to see how that goes. I’m actually excited and pulling for Jose to see the outcome… to see if he was able to do something even the almighty [emoji849] APR couldn’t do years ago. Lol

The almighty APR didn’t design that blower. They just made the tune for it. Most people don’t know that.

And the biggest roadblock for that Magnuson blower is the intercoolers.

I think if Jose was able to design intercoolers that will be able to survive all that power and heat then his supercharger will work very well.

Intercoolers will always be the key to wether or not a bigger blower works well for this car.

[RoofRails]

The almighty APR didn’t design that blower. They just made the tune for it. Most people don’t know that.

And the biggest roadblock for that Magnuson blower is the intercoolers.

I think if Jose was able to design intercoolers that will be able to survive all that power and heat then his supercharger will work very well.

Intercoolers will always be the key to wether or not a bigger blower works well for this car.I don't think we will ever know why APR decided to scrap that blower. Arin mentioned on a post that the IC bricks didn't seal correctly but that seems like a simple clear cut issue that could have been resolved for the sake of salvaging all the effort they put into that program. Everyone goes right to the IC brick size as the limitation (I use to as well) and then a Albertaholdings gets his hands on one and it's running great. Suiteduptothe9s now has one on his A6 running strong, so if the brick gasket seal was the road block then a regular enthusiast who took a chance on a used blower figured out the issue that APR could not.

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[EvolutionArmory]

And we shall see how that holds up to long term abuse.

The question is, did any of those guys do a fraction of the testing that APR did?

Anything can make it through a few pulls. But can it make it through a whole racing season?

Or a couple years of occasional beatings?

APR had nothing to do with the intercooler design but they seem to get the bulk of the blame for that system not working as well as it probably could.

All they did was the software and the fact that you can’t buy that blower from Magnuson says a lot about the supercharger


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[EvolutionArmory]

Even with APR not supporting it with software, you figure Magnuson would still offer the hardware if they thought it was a viable or reliable product. And APR can offer as many design change recommendations as they want but if Magnuson doesn’t want to implement them, then too bad, so sad. It doesn’t get done.

Magnuson dropped it. What you should be asking is why did Magnuson drop it?

They could have approached GIAC to offer a tune for it….

Or any tuner. But they didn’t.


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[RoofRails]

And we shall see how that holds up to long term abuse.

The question is, did any of those guys do a fraction of the testing that APR did?

Anything can make it through a few pulls. But can it make it through a whole racing season?

Or a couple years of occasional beatings?

APR had nothing to do with the intercooler design but they seem to get the bulk of the blame for that system not working as well as it probably could.

All they did was the software and the fact that you can’t buy that blower from Magnuson says a lot about the supercharger


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)All that R&D that APR did and yet they still released a kit that wasn't performing correctly ? Sounds like APR may have been doing a little beta testing on their customers. As far as APR getting the blame , of course they will as they should. They commissioned Magnuson to make the blower for their kit. It's an APR kit, not a Magnuson kit. You can't buy that SC anymore from Magnuson because APR owns the casiting/design, so there are legalities involved. Anyone who wants to go out and replicate that blower can do that. You just can't load up the design or mold that APR paid for and start cranking out those SC bodies again.



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[EvolutionArmory]

And if Magnuson thought it was a viable product they would have released their own in a different housing.

Like I said, we will see how those blowers and intercoolers those 2 guys are running hold up long term.

And we will see what happens with Jose’s too. [emoji6]


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[EvolutionArmory]

And another thing to note Fred, those guys are running custom made intercoolers from Bell. They aren’t running the intercoolers that Magnuson supplied for the APR kit….

So like I said, intercoolers are always going to make or break this supercharger or any aftermarket supercharger…


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[RoofRails]

And another thing to note Fred, those guys are running custom made intercoolers from Bell. They aren’t running the intercoolers that Magnuson supplied for the APR kit….

So like I said, intercoolers are always going to make or break this supercharger or any aftermarket supercharger…


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Re-watch the video. The aftermarket ones they had made performed a little bit worse than the stock ones (only a few degrees C so it was negligible). I'm guessing they were having aftermarket ones made, so they had brand new cores to use instead of repairing the old ones. Now they have spares.


@1:50 in.
https://youtu.be/5V-1dQ2NjQQ

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[EvolutionArmory]

Wasn’t the issue with the stock Magnuson intercoolers that they didn’t seal well or actually broke?

And the temps between the 2 coolers were on 2 different banks. Do you think the intake temps on 2 different banks are going to be completely identical? I don’t know the answer to that. I guess I’m asking is if maybe it’s normal for one bank to run more efficiently than the other based on the cooling systems design? I don’t know the answer.

The only way to prove that the stock cooler worked better with both types installed would be to run it again with them swapped and compare. If it worked better than the aftermarket one on both sides then you could say yes.

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[Shane Horning]

Wasn’t the issue with the stock Magnuson intercoolers that they didn’t seal well or actually broke?

And the temps between the 2 coolers were on 2 different banks. Do you think the intake temps on 2 different banks are going to be completely identical?

The only way to prove that the stock cooler worked better with both types installed would be to run it again with them swapped and compare. If it worked better than the aftermarket one on both sides then you could say yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)I feel the problem was all in the tuning. I ran a Magnuson with original coolers with the smaller charger pulley and 196 lower with awesome results. Never had extreme heat issues

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[EvolutionArmory]

I feel the problem was all in the tuning. I ran a Magnuson with original coolers with the smaller charger pulley and 196 lower with awesome results. Never had extreme heat issues

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I mean, APR had pretty good results with it too. Didn’t they run like an 11.1 at 4000 DA in 105 degree Alabama heat with it? With stock cats…..

I’d say they did alright with it. Read the description for the details. About the worst conditions you can get. And the tune was still in beta at the time.

https://youtu.be/M1TYDuHZWbQ






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[Fresh.S4]

I feel the problem was all in the tuning. I ran a Magnuson with original coolers with the smaller charger pulley and 196 lower with awesome results. Never had extreme heat issues

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so the question comes, why arent you running it now? your ports do better?

[Shane Horning]

so the question comes, why arent you running it now? your ports do better?I lifted the heads so sold it and just run 93 now

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[RoofRails]

Now that we know that the high IAT of that blower wasn't an issue, it would make sense that the 1389mg/stk was ultimately the downfall of it and APR didn't want to admit there was a road block within the software that they either didn't know how to overcome or that they weren't willing to do the work (cost prohibitive). The APR car ran at 4000ft, and at that bad of a DA 1389mg/stk either didn't come into play or they adjusted the pulley ratio to stay just under it. 11.1 isn't a barn burner of a time, so on 100 octane fueling wouldn'thave been an issue. Both of the units up in Canada can hit 1389mg/stk all day long and in the video I linked, SuitedUptoThe9s even talks about tuning his pulley ratio around the change in seasons (DA) to help avoid it. Once your aware of this limitation you can work around it but if you just handed over 10K+ to APR for a brand new blower and you're getting power cuts from hitting 1389 you probably wouldn't be too happy. Just blame the whole thing on IAT, something every 3.0TFSI is familiar with, and call it good.

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[EvolutionArmory]

I hit 1389 on the stock blower with a 3.2 ratio and don’t see power cuts on the Ultracharger file [emoji848]

I’ve never logged MAF when DA is -2000 or lower but I bet I’d hit 1389 for much longer if I did.

Fred, it’s funny that you think 2 c or d level “tuners” know more about the Magnuson blower than the company that wrote the original software for it. 🤣🤣

You don’t know that IAT’s weren’t the issue with the Magnuson. Summer hasn’t even started yet…..


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[irish07]

I hit 1389 on the stock blower with a 3.2 ratio and don’t see power cuts on the Ultracharger file [emoji848]

I’ve never logged MAF when DA is -2000 or lower but I bet I’d hit 1389 for much longer if I did.

Fred, it’s funny that you think 2 c or d level “tuners” know more about the Magnuson blower than the company that wrote the original software for it. [emoji1787][emoji1787]

You don’t know that IAT’s weren’t the issue with the Magnuson. Summer hasn’t even started yet…..


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I also have the Ultracharger file, and at 1389 the BPV opens to limit and hold a max of 1389, just like all the other files on the market.

Post your datalog..


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[EvolutionArmory]

None of us are running the Magnuson file so none of our data logs are relevant to the discussion we’re having about the Magnuson.

I hit 1389 on the Ultracharger file, but not for any sustained amount of time.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Hit it 3 times during this pull.
307701


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[RoofRails]

Hit it 3 times during this pull.
307701


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)That's cute ! This is what it looks like on a Magnuson 1740. (courtesy of Albertaholdings). 307731

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[irish07]

Hit it 3 times during this pull.
307701


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So, you hit it for a fraction of a second and then couldn’t sustain the value of 1389, doesn’t really prove your point.

Nonetheless, show a snap of your BPV position or just share the datalog link, odds are even at such little amount you spent at 1389, the BPV still moved slightly.


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[EvolutionArmory]

That's cute ! This is what it looks like on a Magnuson 1740. (courtesy of Albertaholdings). 307731

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And like I said before, neither is running the APR Magnuson tune so you have no idea what they did or didn’t do to the tune.

You/we can speculate all we want but don’t know what they did.

What we do know is at that point, they were able to go faster than anyone else had before in shitty DA and 105 degrees ambient temps.


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[JRYtheS4]

Don't feed the troll.

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[mahhdd]

Don't feed the troll.

[Jezza]

Any update on this? I would think that a non-race port would really just be opening up the inlet and outlet like you're doing here.

[Fresh.S4]

Their really doesn't need to be a term called a "race port".
You either are gonna do the full job grinding all the required spots or your not. Why would any porter offer different levels?
Even Brett quit doing that option years ago.

[EvolutionArmory]

Any update on this? I would think that a non-race port would really just be opening up the inlet and outlet like you're doing here.

Jokerz stopped doing a port where he ground off so much material that epoxy was needed. He found that machining less material actually flowed close to the same amount of air and made about the same power. Close enough that it wasn’t even worth mentioning the difference in airflow.

A more “aggressive” port doesn’t always translate to more power. The idea is to remove only as much material as necessary to get the job done.

I will never buy a hand done port from anyone. It’s impossible to get repeatable results by hand.


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[RoofRails]

Race ports are still a thing. Brett only does like one a year for our platform when he comes across a particular variant of our blower that has more material supporting the bearing wall. What Brett has explained is that the amount of material you remove from the bearing support affects the timing of the rotors. That rotors act like valves sealing back against that wall. The ports that have very little material left in that area are considered race ports. The peak power gets made at a higher rotor RPM on a race port, so your you need more pulley ratio to take advantage of it, and as we all know, cooling becomes even more of an issue. Windows need to be cut in to the BPV area in order to remove that much material so you're creating another point of failure, so he switched to a good all around port that is optimized to a 3.25 ratio that you don't have to wring it out to take advantage of.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Race ports are still a thing. Brett only does like one a year for our platform when he comes across a particular variant of our blower that has more material supporting the bearing wall. What Brett has explained is that the amount of material you remove from the bearing support affects the timing of the rotors. That rotors act like valves sealing back against that wall. The ports that have very little material left in that area are considered race ports. The peak power gets made at a higher rotor RPM on a race port, so your you need more pulley ratio to take advantage of it, and as we all know, cooling becomes even more of an issue. Windows need to be cut in to the BPV area in order to remove that much material so you're creating another point of failure, so he switched to a good all around port that is optimized to a 3.25 ratio that you don't have to wring it out to take advantage of.

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Fred, what criteria does he use to determine what is suitable for a “race port”?

Is it a specific compressor housing part number? A certain production year range? Just chance variations in the castings?

Did he tell you?

When I talked to him he didn’t mention anything about that but you’ve probably talked to him more than once unlike me.

When I talked to him he just said he does the less aggressive port now because opening it up more didn’t offer any more flow.


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[RoofRails]

Fred, what criteria does he use to determine what is suitable for a “race port”?

Is it a specific compressor housing part number? A certain production year range? Just chance variations in the castings?

Did he tell you?

When I talked to him he didn’t mention anything about that but you’ve probably talked to him more than once unlike me.

When I talked to him he just said he does the less aggressive port now because opening it up more didn’t offer any more flow.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)It's an early variant of our SCs. If you look at the BPV area, it's solid , no ribs. I don't know the year/vehicle that they are found in. 310761

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[EvolutionArmory]

Good info. Thanks.

It would be cool to know what the part number variant was.


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[BrokeBichB8]

Ya'll are gonna flip here, but the last bit of power is by modifying the rotor blades at the inlet. By doing should have a similar effect to opening the case as Roofrails describes allowing much more inlet flow and changing rotor timing by a lot........Somebody do it!

[RoofRails]

Ya'll are gonna flip here, but the last bit of power is by modifying the rotor blades at the inlet. By doing should have a similar effect to opening the case as Roofrails describes allowing much more inlet flow and changing rotor timing by a lot........Somebody do it!Like this ? All the flows !!! 310776


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[Ibuckfitches]

Looking to port my supercharger but I can only find Jokerz offering the service. I messaged Shane Horning and Performancebuilds months ago and received no response. With Jokerz it would be over $2000 given that I’m in Canada, shipping would be another issue. With the winters here (-30c) IATs are no problem


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[SuitedUp2The9s]

Looking to port my supercharger but I can only find Jokerz offering the service. I messaged Shane Horning and Performancebuilds months ago and received no response. With Jokerz it would be over $2000 given that I’m in Canada, shipping would be another issue. With the winters here (-30c) IATs are no problem


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Contact VastAZ. He's your guy.

B5 S4 - Laser Red // Stage III
C7 A6 - Magnuson TVS1740 // 10.69@128

[EvolutionArmory]

Vast AZ is the only real solution right now. Brett from Jokerz told me he’s getting out of B8’s because he doesn’t make any money on them, all the guys that were porting blowers a few years ago like Shane Horning and Matty are hard to get ahold of, JHM offers porting but I’ve never seen anyone posts results from one so that leaves Marshall from Vast AZ.

So far my Vast AZ ported blower is working out great. I’m able to run decent times very consistently now and am way less dependent on decent weather to run good times. It just performs all day every day now.

In 80 degree weather with the port I’m able to run the times I needed 40-50 degree weather to run with the stock blower and that should just improve when boost season finally gets here. Marshall from Vast AZ is the only porter that is actually putting out work and showing results in 2024.


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[Fresh.S4]

If you are looking for a completely solid hand ported blower, ive got one ready to ship now, no waiting weeks.
I learned from Brett, Matty, and Brad years ago right before they left the scene pre covid. With their information I am able to replicate all of the universal cuts and smoothing to insure maximum flow. No different 'stages', just one solid job all the way through so there is no confusion. I do these as requested, mostly local but there are a few of my ports floating around from folks that ive shipped to and haven't had a complaint yet from the folks who have my units.
I purposely price my jobs low because 1) i am a long-time community member and 2) everyone should be rocking a ported blower.
$1250 shipped (conus) gets you a completely ported blower all the way through, new bearings and fresh oil.

send me a pm and ill square you away with a fast turn around time.

[carguy19]

I've been doing a lot of research and speaking to a lot of people I know about power increasing for my car. I have been playing around with the idea of a ported or aftermarket blower. No matter what combo of fuel, blower, and cooling I start to research, in our cars the factory setup/system with the IC bricks sucks when you start climbing over 400hp (which is stage 2 and up).

If I do take the plunge the only way I am doing it on my car is going to be using a cooling system that uses the AC refrigerant to cool the IC bricks. The likely setup will be eliminating the IC core in the front bumper and just running the chiller (the IC core would actually put heat into the system and is counter productive). I also plan on doing meth/water injection in addition to the Refrigeration cooler along with pump or race gas along with a rebuilt/stronger HPFP and a more stout in tank setup. (I don't plan on using any corn fuel).

Using the above mentioned setup, I should be able to avoid any fuel starvation or detonation and keep the motor together and strong.

[STXA7]

I've been doing a lot of research and speaking to a lot of people I know about power increasing for my car. I have been playing around with the idea of a ported or aftermarket blower. No matter what combo of fuel, blower, and cooling I start to research, in our cars the factory setup/system with the IC bricks sucks when you start climbing over 400hp (which is stage 2 and up).

If I do take the plunge the only way I am doing it on my car is going to be using a cooling system that uses the AC refrigerant to cool the IC bricks. The likely setup will be eliminating the IC core in the front bumper and just running the chiller (the IC core would actually put heat into the system and is counter productive). I also plan on doing meth/water injection in addition to the Refrigeration cooler along with pump or race gas along with a rebuilt/stronger HPFP and a more stout in tank setup. (I don't plan on using any corn fuel).

Using the above mentioned setup, I should be able to avoid any fuel starvation or detonation and keep the motor together and strong.

Sounds to me like you’re going to want to get the forced induction inter chiller universal kit. It’s not to be confused with the earlier inefficient killer chillers. Only about 1600 USD . I have one just not installed

[mahhdd]

Marshall @ Vast AZ

[EvolutionArmory]

A real world 60-130 ported blower comparison done in about as even conditions as I could. The difference equals about 40-45 wheel horsepower in my case.

Jackal 93 and meth tune. Vast AZ race port.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241015/19dd412cae02cd16a484cd5cb7920cd4.jpg


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[EvolutionArmory]

The Vast AZ ported blower keeps dipping deeper into the 7’s.

This is on Jackal’s E40 meth tune with VP Speed Sauce Plus.

This is a 3.2 pulley ratio. With a higher ratio I am pretty confident it would be a consistent low 7’s car. It just runs 7’s every time I try now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241029/2a4b971a36ea69d431dda52224c1d7a0.jpg


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[Nillious]

The Vast AZ ported blower keeps dipping deeper into the 7’s.

This is on Jackal’s E40 meth tune with VP Speed Sauce Plus.

This is a 3.2 pulley ratio. With a higher ratio I am pretty confident it would be a consistent low 7’s car. It just runs 7’s every time I try now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241029/2a4b971a36ea69d431dda52224c1d7a0.jpg


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What did you end up doing for cats? Did you get stock or something else?

[EvolutionArmory]

What did you end up doing for cats? Did you get stock or something else?

GAS GESI 400 cell stock location.


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[Ibuckfitches]

Just installed a ported blower from Fresh.S[emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]]] and I just wanted to leave a quick review for his service.

He acted very professional all throughout and provided helpful information while going above and beyond. His work looks very consistent with competitors with a significantly lower price. Attention to detail is incredible.

If you’re looking for a ported blower I highly recommend him.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Do you have any before and after port time slips?

That’s how good ported blower work is measured.


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[Ibuckfitches]

Unfortunately I live in deep snow (dropped [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]cm last [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]]]hrs) (minus [emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]][emoji[emoji638][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]c) so I can’t really hit the track to guage anything. I can probably take a look at the airflow improvement in the logs.


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[RebelliousH]

Hello everyone. Late to the party but interested in porting my blower for my c7 a6. I already have all supporting mods and currently stage 2+ Jackal tuned. Is Shane still in the game? Seeing options for ports, I also considered VastAz but want to see what others think

[RebelliousH]

The Vast AZ ported blower keeps dipping deeper into the 7’s.

This is on Jackal’s E40 meth tune with VP Speed Sauce Plus.

This is a 3.2 pulley ratio. With a higher ratio I am pretty confident it would be a consistent low 7’s car. It just runs 7’s every time I try now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241029/2a4b971a36ea69d431dda52224c1d7a0.jpg


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Is this their race port? What other mods do you have?

[Nillious]

Anybody ever ported a charger on stage 1? Would the tune just bleed any extra boost you got. I have a spare charger laying around and have the equipment for porting.

[SuitedUp2The9s]

Anybody ever ported a charger on stage 1? Would the tune just bleed any extra boost you got. I have a spare charger laying around and have the equipment for porting.People have. If there's room on your stage 1 tune to increase boost to match the map_sp, then definitely.

B5 S4 - Laser Red // Stage III
C7 A6 - Magnuson TVS1740 // 10.52@131

[Fresh.S4]

Anybody ever ported a charger on stage 1? Would the tune just bleed any extra boost you got. I have a spare charger laying around and have the equipment for porting.

Yup!
That's how I started. Apr stage1/ ported blower.
Does it bleed boost? Probably
Was it overkill for mods? Probably
Was it worth it? Yup.
Highly recommend that you go for it, getting a ported blower early on will just augment the power increase of other mods as you add them. BUT! I think only if you know you will make your way to going stage2,tp, pullies and matching tb (in order to really maximize). Or for folks who are going all in on the under stuff maintenance and the blower needs to come off anyways.

[Fresh.S4]

next ported blower will be ready this weekend.
$1275 shipped, conus.

optional 80mm tb kit.