K04/Hybrid & Big Turbo Support Group

[Traptalk]

Can you do a breakdown of MAF with and without the piggyback at 3, 4, 5 and 6K?

290 is around the limit most of us will see so if you picked up 11 GS at 6K, did you pick up 30 at 4K?

Curious about the rest of the curve.


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Soon as weather permits I will

Mid range seems stronger. Have to double check the log but pretty sure had 265 g/s at like 4500rpm

[Traptalk]

I’ve searched for back pressure info on various turbos on VAG applications and never come up with much. And any published info about the K04-064 from BW is non existent. The closest I’ve come to any data about K04 back pressure is companies like APR suggesting it’s high, but no actual numbers. Does “it’s high” mean 15 PSI or 60? 🤣

You know that K04-064 compressor map everyone likes to post? How do we know that’s even for a K04-064? I’ve never seen any official BW published info about this turbo.

I think the first time I ever saw a K04 compressor map was when Doug from Frankenturbo posted one so who knows if it’s even real. 🤣


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If you look closely on apr’s ig you’ll see they add dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors to really know where they are in the efficiency island


Unitronic has a video with motor running outside of the car where you can see a sensor added to the manifold right where it meets the turbine housing on a k04

https://youtu.be/9qisxbll8GE


I imagine a lot of this stuff is kept close secret from the efforts that when in to measuring it

[Traptalk]

When we talked last week I think both of us kind of had this hunch.

I was more worried about the actual crack pressure for whatever reason. The flapper isn’t loose but the wheel did spin and if I pulled on the wheel, it would pop out a bit. When adjusting the nuts on the arm, I found that the crack pressure was more around 10psi with the green spring with (probably) the right amount of preload on it. It wigged me out a bit to be honest, therefore I backed off on it.

So, your prediction is probably right. Not sure what else it would be at this point. Plumbing is correct. No leaks. [emoji2373]

I have Friday off work, if I’m feeling ambitious I’ll pull the turbo yet again. Do you think I need new gaskets and washers after ~30 miles? Lol. At least this will allow me to get the clock absolutely perfect (aluminum isn’t very pliable, hah).

Thinking of still sticking with the green spring but aiming more for the 10psi crack pressure with appropriate preload.

Cheers and thanks for all your help!


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Remember the rod travel is as important as the pre load and crack pressure

I’ll try to make time on Friday and we can video call or FaceTime and I’ll try to help you get it sorted

[Iceman502]

I’ve searched for back pressure info on various turbos on VAG applications and never come up with much. And any published info about the K04-064 from BW is non existent. The closest I’ve come to any data about K04 back pressure is companies like APR suggesting it’s high, but no actual numbers. Does “it’s high” mean 15 PSI or 60? 🤣

You know that K04-064 compressor map everyone likes to post? How do we know that’s even for a K04-064? I’ve never seen any official BW published info about this turbo.

I think the first time I ever saw a K04 compressor map was when Doug from Frankenturbo posted one so who knows if it’s even real. 🤣


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If you look closely on apr’s ig you’ll see they add dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors to really know where they are in the efficiency island


Unitronic has a video with motor running outside of the car where you can see a sensor added to the manifold right where it meets the turbine housing on a k04

https://youtu.be/9qisxbll8GE


I imagine a lot of this stuff is kept close secret from the efforts that when in to measuring it

I think it is ridiculous that BW hasn't released an official compressor map for the 2283 wheel, because I've hunted around too. People buying a product should have access to the technical information around it. Kind of like right to repair. Maybe Melett might have one?

If I was really trying to dig into this, I could get a pressure sensor that threads into the pre cat O2 sensor bung for a pretty accurate reading, but that is $100 that I don't ~have~ to spend. The one I had looked at had a range of 0 to 100 psig. By tweaking the dimensions of the canister and WG flapper by just small fractions of an inch in my model, I brought the backpressure values down to the 20-30 psi range. When I get to actually measure the dimensions, it'll be interesting to see how close they are.

[A4x]

If you look closely on apr’s ig you’ll see they add dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors to really know where they are in the efficiency island


I doubt IE did any of this. I'm pretty sure their tune is written off of logs captured from APR cars.

[EvolutionArmory]

I think it is ridiculous that BW hasn't released an official compressor map for the 2283 wheel, because I've hunted around too. People buying a product should have access to the technical information around it. Kind of like right to repair. Maybe Melett might have one?

If I was really trying to dig into this, I could get a pressure sensor that threads into the pre cat O2 sensor bung for a pretty accurate reading, but that is $100 that I don't ~have~ to spend. The one I had looked at had a range of 0 to 100 psig. By tweaking the dimensions of the canister and WG flapper by just small fractions of an inch in my model, I brought the backpressure values down to the 20-30 psi range. When I get to actually measure the dimensions, it'll be interesting to see how close they are.

I agree it’s frustrating not having the REAL map. But looking at it from BW’s perspective, why would they release the map for a turbo they built for a factory car for Audi? Is it even their info to give at that point?

I don’t trust any of K04-064/2283 maps that are published on forums. Some of them probably aren’t even for this turbo and the rest of them are probably based off of what Doug from Frankenturbo posted. And we all know what Doug did to “prove” his turbos could make more power. He just moved whatever map he is claiming is a K04-064 map with Photoshop.

Now why would Borg Warner give a compressor map to a mid level turbo supplier that makes/imports Chinese copies? They probably wouldn’t is the right answer. 🤣


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[SNice]

Here's a pull from today. Still not the cleanest, but my boosting concerns are no more. I'm probably going to leave it until the spring where I can address the timing issues. The 3deg pull at the end seems to be consistent. Not sure if it is a software thing, or the ECU trying to correct. I'll need to so some more research on that one.

https://datazap.me/u/snice/pullsfull120920?log=0&data=1-2-4-5-6-8-10-13-14&solo=6&zoom=478-492

210028

[Perry01]

I doubt IE did any of this. I'm pretty sure their tune is written off of logs captured from APR cars.

Nope, my Q5 was the development vehicle for the IE K04 tune. IE also bought a used 2012 A4 6MT then put a BW K04 on it for in-house dyno testing as well.

[Traptalk]

Seems like sport + is pretty Driveable part throttle

I took logs of each mode of the piggy back on the 93 octane I’m going to compare to my non piggy back log and post what I find

[EvolutionArmory]

If you look closely on apr’s ig you’ll see they add dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors to really know where they are in the efficiency island


Unitronic has a video with motor running outside of the car where you can see a sensor added to the manifold right where it meets the turbine housing on a k04

https://youtu.be/9qisxbll8GE


I imagine a lot of this stuff is kept close secret from the efforts that when in to measuring it

This video shows the difference of what you get for R&D when you buy a tune from a software company VS buying a tune from a hardware company that also decided to sell software.

Now you see why maybe they don’t run 28 PSI and try to blow up your motor. They see what the real EGT’s are and other parameters that some guy in his garage in Canada can’t see. [emoji3]


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[SNice]

Remember the rod travel is as important as the pre load and crack pressure

I’ll try to make time on Friday and we can video call or FaceTime and I’ll try to help you get it sorted

I remember earlier, you mentioned that rod travel should be 10-11mm. Before I made any adjustments, my rod travel was at 12.5mm. After I made my adjustments, I was at about 10mm.
A few things I noted as I was recording data and making adjustments:

- Max rod travel was a final endpoint - always reached at 12psi (for me). Any increase to preload reduced rod travel. Any psi over 12 did not open the WG any further. Didn't measure the WG angle but it was probably in the neighborhood of 40-60deg.
- Minimum "crack" pressure I could run would be 6.5psi. Anything below that would be insufficient preload on the wastegate. Even at this setting, I could spin the wastegate flapper with force.
- Running my car with the N75 unplugged and recording boost levels seemed to give me a good value of when the wastegate is "fully" open. it seemed to correspond to the position when the actuator arm was parallel to the cat flange.
- Determined that 1mm (one nut turn) adjustment changes the crack pressure by about 0.25psi. I went from about 7.5psi to about 8.75+psi = about 1.25psi adjustment = 5 turns in. I originally wanted to go to 9 but that made my rod travel dip below 10mm.
- Even though I set my "crack" pressure to 8.75-9psi, flapper wheel would spin with pressure applied at about 7.5psi.

Not sure if this is right, but I defined "crack pressure" as the pressure at which visible movement of the actuator rod occured. However, just before my measured "crack pressure" there is a phase of about 1.5-2psi before where tension starts to come off the wastegate.

Also related to wastegate movement, what is the the working range of the wastegate? It seems to me that past a certain point, like around 40deg, it is fully open and any additional opening would not yield additional flow (?).

Turbo: CTS K04 (TR-1070)
Wastegate: Unbranded - came with turbo. Sealed but with adjustable preload
N75: Unbranded - came with turbo.
Diverter V: Stock Audi OEM
Actuator rod 1st moves at 8.75-9psi
Wastegate flapper starts to spin with force at 7.5psi. Free spin at 8psi.

[A4x]

Nope, my Q5 was the development vehicle for the IE K04 tune. IE also bought a used 2012 A4 6MT then put a BW K04 on it for in-house dyno testing as well.

There is a difference between using a dyno and using "dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors"

[JLAllroad]

Are those numbers how much boost is added per setting?
I can’t really find clear indications of what each setting is supposed to add.
l

Yes that is the amount of added psi, I found “race” to be rough as well (on stock programming) and generally ran in sport+(3) but adaptation miles do smooth things out.

Looking at your logs, it looked like requested load/torque/and timing were dropping vs non piggyback, correct?


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[Perry01]

There is a difference between using a dyno and using "dozens of sensors during testing included exhaust map sensor, egt sensor, and shaft speed sensors"

There’s a difference between claiming IE reverse engineered APR‘s K04 tune and the actual facts. Of course they used real-time data from their test car’s ECU while creating their K04 file. How else do you think they are going to develop a tune without using the engine’s various sensors? In this video, Peter Blais explains how they developed this particular tune by using the many different sensors on a twin turbo Audi 4.2 V8 in an R8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ2Llh83Oqc

Not only does IE make some of the best hardware for VAG vehicles but they’re pretty good at writing software too. Cars with their software have established world records on multiple platforms, their owner and lead tuner has a software engineering degree and has been writing tunes for a long time. They may not have the resources as APR but they’re more than just a company that makes good hardware.

[JLAllroad]

This video shows the difference of what you get for R&D when you buy a tune from a software company VS buying a tune from a hardware company that also decided to sell software.

Now you see why maybe they don’t run 28 PSI and try to blow up your motor. They see what the real EGT’s are and other parameters that some guy in his garage in Canada can’t see. [emoji3]


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My 1.8t and 2.0t both glowed when driven even moderately hard, stock. This is just the nature of LEV and ULEV. I have not seen a notable difference in EGT tuned vs stock.


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[EvolutionArmory]

My 1.8t and 2.0t both glowed when driven even moderately hard, stock. This is just the nature of LEV and ULEV. I have not seen a notable difference in EGT tuned vs stock.


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None of our cars have EGT sensors. Only a guesstimate from other sensors.

All turbos glow red. That wasn’t the point, like at all.


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[JLAllroad]

I remember earlier, you mentioned that rod travel should be 10-11mm. Before I made any adjustments, my rod travel was at 12.5mm. After I made my adjustments, I was at about 10mm.
A few things I noted as I was recording data and making adjustments:

- Max rod travel was a final endpoint - always reached at 12psi (for me). Any increase to preload reduced rod travel. Any psi over 12 did not open the WG any further. Didn't measure the WG angle but it was probably in the neighborhood of 40-60deg.
- Minimum "crack" pressure I could run would be 6.5psi. Anything below that would be insufficient preload on the wastegate. Even at this setting, I could spin the wastegate flapper with force.
- Running my car with the N75 unplugged and recording boost levels seemed to give me a good value of when the wastegate is "fully" open. it seemed to correspond to the position when the actuator arm was parallel to the cat flange.
- Determined that 1mm (one nut turn) adjustment changes the crack pressure by about 0.25psi. I went from about 7.5psi to about 8.75+psi = about 1.25psi adjustment = 5 turns in. I originally wanted to go to 9 but that made my rod travel dip below 10mm.
- Even though I set my "crack" pressure to 8.75-9psi, flapper wheel would spin with pressure applied at about 7.5psi.

Not sure if this is right, but I defined "crack pressure" as the pressure at which visible movement of the actuator rod occured. However, just before my measured "crack pressure" there is a phase of about 1.5-2psi before where tension starts to come off the wastegate.

Also related to wastegate movement, what is the the working range of the wastegate? It seems to me that past a certain point, like around 40deg, it is fully open and any additional opening would not yield additional flow (?).

A couple things.

Would you mind editing your post to include your turbo and WG specifics brand/model?

We should have a standard definition of what “crack” means, as I have seen some say first visible movement and others when you can spin the WG as it is no longer sealed, I’m in belief of the latter.




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[SNice]

A couple things.

Would you mind editing your post to include your turbo and WG specifics brand/model?

We should have a standard definition of what “crack” means, as I have seen some say first visible movement and others when you can spin the WG as it is no longer sealed, I’m in belief of the latter.




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Agree we need standard definition of “crack” pressure. It would ensure we are comparing apples to apples.

Added the following info to my post above:

Turbo: CTS K04(TR-1070)
Wastegate: Unbranded - came with turbo. Sealed but with adjustable preload
N75: Unbranded - came with turbo.
Diverter V: Stock Audi OEM
Actuator rod 1st moves at 8.75-9psi
Wastegate flapper starts to spin with force at 7.5psi. Free spin at 8psi.

...and thinking about this, I’m not sure how important the above is in comparing different turbos. I used the info I got from testing my turbo to inform adjustments that allowed me to match my tune file which specified a specific wastegate setting.

On the 6-8 file I was overboosting by 8psi consistently. On the 11 file I was underboosting by 2 psi consistently. I wouldn’t be able to reduce preload by 8 so I stayed on the 11psi file and made adjustments to my turbo to increase the preload by 2. I ended up increasing by about 1.5 and now I’m in a good spot.

Tune by GIAC and turbo by CTS. There’s no guarantee that these companies determine “crack” pressures in the same manner so it’s all relative.

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[Traptalk]

I remember earlier, you mentioned that rod travel should be 10-11mm. Before I made any adjustments, my rod travel was at 12.5mm. After I made my adjustments, I was at about 10mm.
A few things I noted as I was recording data and making adjustments:

- Max rod travel was a final endpoint - always reached at 12psi (for me). Any increase to preload reduced rod travel. Any psi over 12 did not open the WG any further. Didn't measure the WG angle but it was probably in the neighborhood of 40-60deg.
- Minimum "crack" pressure I could run would be 6.5psi. Anything below that would be insufficient preload on the wastegate. Even at this setting, I could spin the wastegate flapper with force.
- Running my car with the N75 unplugged and recording boost levels seemed to give me a good value of when the wastegate is "fully" open. it seemed to correspond to the position when the actuator arm was parallel to the cat flange.
- Determined that 1mm (one nut turn) adjustment changes the crack pressure by about 0.25psi. I went from about 7.5psi to about 8.75+psi = about 1.25psi adjustment = 5 turns in. I originally wanted to go to 9 but that made my rod travel dip below 10mm.
- Even though I set my "crack" pressure to 8.75-9psi, flapper wheel would spin with pressure applied at about 7.5psi.

Not sure if this is right, but I defined "crack pressure" as the pressure at which visible movement of the actuator rod occured. However, just before my measured "crack pressure" there is a phase of about 1.5-2psi before where tension starts to come off the wastegate.

Also related to wastegate movement, what is the the working range of the wastegate? It seems to me that past a certain point, like around 40deg, it is fully open and any additional opening would not yield additional flow (?).

Turbo: CTS K04r (1070)
Wastegate: Unbranded - came with turbo. Sealed but with adjustable preload
N75: Unbranded - came with turbo.
Diverter V: Stock Audi OEM
Actuator rod 1st moves at 8.75-9psi
Wastegate flapper starts to spin with force at 7.5psi. Free spin at 8psi.

I know exactly what you mean by spinning with pressure which is where I assumed crack pressure to be since back pressure will be apply force to the flapper.

So with pressure I could spin mine starting 9.5-10ish but no physical “crack” till 11psi where is a small visible gap between the flapper and the base where it sits when closed

- - - Updated - - -


I know exactly what you mean by spinning with pressure which is where I assumed crack pressure to be since back pressure will be apply force to the flapper.

So with pressure I could spin mine starting 9.5-10ish but no physical “crack” till 11psi where is a small visible gap between the flapper and the base where it sits when closed

Noticed in Schwiz email to apr they give an exact lift height for what they considered crack which was like 0.015”

[Traptalk]

Yes that is the amount of added psi, I found “race” to be rough as well (on stock programming) and generally ran in sport+(3) but adaptation miles do smooth things out.

Looking at your logs, it looked like requested load/torque/and timing were dropping vs non piggyback, correct?


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It appears tq looks to be 10nm higher in race mode seems like it stays higher for longer.

Timing appears to be the same at 6200rpm have 18.8 degrees of advance

Looks like load request stays the same but absolute load increases with the piggy back

Some initial findings (bare in mind that these runs didn’t start at exactly the same rpm)

Apr 100 octane file with dinan on race

2k rpm - 7.1 g/s wgdc 1.6%
3k rpm - 161.3 g/s wgdc 64.8%
4k rpm - 223.7 g/s wgdc 70.7%
5k rpm - 271.1 g/s wgdc 67.9%
6k rpm - 288.5 g/s wgdc 62.8%
6.2k rpm - 290.1 g/s wgdc 61.3%

Apr 100 octane no piggy back

2k - 7.8 // 3.3%
3k - 160.3 // 67.9%
4k - 211.6 // 68.1%
5k - 256.7 // 61.6%
6k - 277.5 // 55.8%
6.2k - 278.1 // 54.7%

[JLAllroad]

It appears tq looks to be 10nm higher in race mode seems like it stays higher for longer.

Timing appears to be the same at 6200rpm have 18.8 degrees of advance

Looks like load request stays the same but absolute load increases with the piggy back

Some initial findings (bare in mind that these runs didn’t start at exactly the same rpm)

Apr 100 octane file with dinan on race

2k rpm - 7.1 g/s wgdc 1.6%
3k rpm - 161.3 g/s wgdc 64.8%
4k rpm - 223.7 g/s wgdc 70.7%
5k rpm - 271.1 g/s wgdc 67.9%
6k rpm - 288.5 g/s wgdc 62.8%
6.2k rpm - 290.1 g/s wgdc 61.3%

Apr 100 octane no piggy back

2k - 7.8 // 3.3%
3k - 160.3 // 67.9%
4k - 211.6 // 68.1%
5k - 256.7 // 61.6%
6k - 277.5 // 55.8%
6.2k - 278.1 // 54.7%

Based on you WG DC it would appear that your CHRA and porting are working well and/or crack could be lowered a bit, BUT, only if you feel there are any drivability issues.

It is interesting to see wgdc highest in the midrange and taper up high suggesting decent high end efficiency.

Needless to say this combo looks to have the headroom I would need to have any chance of hitting requested at altitude.

It’s one thing to live and drive @5300ft but I make routine runs @8-10k ft.


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[JLAllroad]

None of our cars have EGT sensors. Only a guesstimate from other sensors.

All turbos glow red. That wasn’t the point, like at all.


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Again, remind me how my EGT’s gradually decline after I’ve driven, ignition on, engine not running?


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[Traptalk]

Think I got Schwiz sorted.

Got on face time with him and his wastegate flapper spun like a bad k03 lol

Got him preloaded and dialed right to the upper limit of his green spring.

With pressure applied to the flapper it spins freely at 8.3psi now and cracks visibly and spins freely at 9psi

He measured 7/16” for travel which is a just a tad over 11mm.

We tried going another half turn tighter and his travel dropped to 9.5mm so turned it back the half turn to where it was and locked it in.

He’s right on the upper limits of that green springs capabilities.

Looking forward to the results !

Edit:

Noticing a trend with these forge gates

That fully open pressure is slightly over double the crack pressure

For example my gate spun under pressure at 9.5-10 and visibly cracked and free spinning at 11 and was fully open at 25psi

Schwiz fully open at 19 psi cracking 8-9

Wonder if stock does too

Re edit :

Stock k03 gate spins at 4psi cracks at 5psi and is fully open at 11psi...

[Traptalk]

Based on you WG DC it would appear that your CHRA and porting are working well and/or crack could be lowered a bit, BUT, only if you feel there are any drivability issues.

It is interesting to see wgdc highest in the midrange and taper up high suggesting decent high end efficiency.

Needless to say this combo looks to have the headroom I would need to have any chance of hitting requested at altitude.

It’s one thing to live and drive @5300ft but I make routine runs @8-10k ft.


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I think my crack may be to high to daily with it. Sport + is better but still surgey. Soon as just gas it surge goes away and it’s just smooth power lol

Gonna try to let it adapt and try the other modes

[JLAllroad]

I think my crack may be to high to daily with it. Sport + is better but still surgey. Soon as just gas it surge goes away and it’s just smooth power lol

Gonna try to let it adapt and try the other modes

I think if you ask any K03/4 tuner they will tell you most of their time is spent trying to refine the part throttle response as these small frame turbos are like a light switch in that range.

Makes WOT tuning look easy.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Again, remind me how my EGT’s gradually decline after I’ve driven, ignition on, engine not running?


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None of our cars have a dedicated EGT sensor. It’s only an estimate based off of other sensor input. This is a fact.

The turbo in that video has a sensor drilled right into the manifold that none of us have. Maybe it’s a back pressure sensor. I don’t know exactly but it’s probably an EGT sensor. But you missed the point of my whole post.

The point was, that software company is running the engine on an engine dyno using sensor input the factory ECU doesn’t provide. And they’re getting a real HP reading at the crank/flywheel. Not estimated crank HP from the wheels or hubs.

That’s the type of R&D you get when you buy a tune from a software company with many years of experience. Street tunes from tuners with limited tuning software only gets you so far. Ask all the Eurodyne Maestro guys from previous generation cars. Some of them spent years dialing in their tunes just to be no better than an OTS tune. Some of them popped their motors [emoji6]


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[mnripper]

Just some fun driving reports from last night:

I raced a B8 a6 3.0T from a dig to about 70. Soft start, then he got on it so I did too. I had him by a car+ by 70.

Then had a 340i with m perfomance exhaust from a dig. He had me by about a car at 90.
No idea exactly what year it was. something 2015+. Had a crackle, but I don't know if it was tuned. Don't know much about those cars.

[19birel]

Just some fun driving reports from last night:

I raced a B8 a6 3.0T from a dig to about 70. Soft start, then he got on it so I did too. I had him by a car+ by 70.

Then had a 340i with m perfomance exhaust from a dig. He had me by about a car at 90.
No idea exactly what year it was. something 2015+. Had a crackle, but I don't know if it was tuned. Don't know much about those cars.

340i is 2016-2018, if it has M-Performance exhaust it will have crackle stock from factory. They're pretty quick!

[JLAllroad]

None of our cars have a dedicated EGT sensor. It’s only an estimate based off of other sensor input. This is a fact.

The turbo in that video has a sensor drilled right into the manifold that none of us have. Maybe it’s a back pressure sensor. I don’t know exactly but it’s probably an EGT sensor. But you missed the point of my whole post.

The point was, that software company is running the engine on an engine dyno using sensor input the factory ECU doesn’t provide. And they’re getting a real HP reading at the crank/flywheel. Not estimated crank HP from the wheels or hubs.

That’s the type of R&D you get when you buy a tune from a software company with many years of experience. Street tunes from tuners with limited tuning software only gets you so far. Ask all the Eurodyne Maestro guys from previous generation cars. Some of them spent years dialing in their tunes just to be no better than an OTS tune. Some of them popped their motors [emoji6]


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That’s a lot of words to get around saying that you can’t.


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[EvolutionArmory]

That’s a lot of words to get around saying that you can’t.


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Because the sensors that are guesstimating what they think your EGT’s are are guesstimating that the exhaust is cooling down.

Do I need to explain to you why turbos get hot when they’re making boost and why they cool down when you’re coasting and not making boost? Damn man. 🤣🤣

I just assumed everyone in this thread was beyond that point. I guess some people need more explaining done. Here’s a hint. Turbos are compressors. What happens to air when you compress it? What happens to metal things when you heat them?

What happens to hot things when you pass cooler air through them?

Your car does not have a designated EGT sensor. It just gets some info from other sensors and guesstimates what it is. For most vehicle operations, this is adequate. When you start pushing parts past their intended purpose, the difference between what the actual temp is and what the ECU thinks it is can be a good deal different.

Why do you think Unitronic drilled a hole in a perfectly good K04 to get readings. Because in some instances, the factory sensor input isn’t exact.


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[JLAllroad]

Because the sensors that are guesstimating what they think your EGT’s are are guesstimating that the exhaust is cooling down.

Do I need to explain to you why turbos get hot when they’re making boost and why they cool down when you’re coasting and not making boost? Damn man. 🤣🤣

I just assumed everyone in this thread was beyond that point. I guess some people need more explaining done. Here’s a hint. Turbos are compressors. What happens to air when you compress it? What happens to metal things when you heat them?

What happens to hot things when you pass cooler air through them?

Your car does not have a designated EGT sensor. It just gets some info from other sensors and guesstimates what it is. For most vehicle operations, this is adequate. When you start pushing parts past their intended purpose, the difference between what the actual temp is and what the ECU thinks it is can be a good deal different.

Why do you think Unitronic drilled a hole in a perfectly good K04 to get readings. Because in some instances, the factory sensor input isn’t exact.


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So no then.


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[Traptalk]

Our cars also don’t have sensors for load or torque. These are calculated values as well that the ecu will generate and use to stay within the limits of the tune

[EvolutionArmory]

Our cars also don’t have sensors for load or torque. These are calculated values as well that the ecu will generate and use to stay within the limits of the tune

The sensors that make calculations for sensors the car doesn’t have are pretty good at doing it but they have limits. And when you go outside of the factory tuning, you can only trust those calculations so much. That was the whole point of what I was saying. Can you explain it to the other guy for me please. 🤣


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[JLAllroad]

Our cars also don’t have sensors for load or torque. These are calculated values as well that the ecu will generate and use to stay within the limits of the tune

I understand, being that many of our tunes are load based I was just interested in the changes to those calculations when using the Dinan stack.


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[JLAllroad]

The sensors that make calculations for sensors the car doesn’t have are pretty good at doing it but they have limits. And when you go outside of the factory tuning, you can only trust those calculations so much. That was the whole point of what I was saying. Can you explain it to the other guy for me please. 🤣


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I just asked if you could remind me why (or how) it’s calculating that the EGT’s are dropping when so many of these sensors that are “calculating” are not seeing the data that they would normally make calculations from.



You could say that you don’t know. I mean we do have two entirely different ECUs. Just curious.

As for HP/torque calculations, or any others for what it’s worth, we cannot speak to their accuracy without some validating measurements. We have MAP sensors yet I run a boost gauge off the tap, even with the sensor it’s a calculation, just happens my gauge agrees with it.

APR, Unitronic, the OE’s all use additional sensors to validate the calculations, not because the calculations are wrong .

That said, similar to how one dyno differs from another based on calibration our engines calculations will differ, but yet still the ECUs calculations are what it uses to determine how to run.


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[EvolutionArmory]

EGT’s are calculated by coolant temp, intake air temp and data obtained by the O2 sensors. It can calculate an idea of what the exhaust temp is but the truth is, the ECU doesn’t know because it would need a sensor directly in the exhaust path to get an accurate reading.

It’s just like the load and torque calculations. It takes other sensor data and estimates load and torque. Probably from MAF readings and ABS sensor data. I’d have to see the MED17 system strategy to be positive.


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[old guy]

I’d have to see the MED17 system strategy to be positive.




Go for it [:D] Clicky click® (https://go-pdf.online/bosch-motronic-med-17.pdf)

[EvolutionArmory]

Go for it [:D] Clicky click[emoji768] (https://go-pdf.online/bosch-motronic-med-17.pdf)

Need to register and there’s a VPN needed. No thanks.

I’ll get it off Nefmoto.


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[Nano909]

Go for it [:D] Clicky click® (https://go-pdf.online/bosch-motronic-med-17.pdf)

Excuse after excuse after excuse. 🤣 so glad people caught on and are tired of his BS.

[EvolutionArmory]

Excuse after excuse after excuse. 🤣 so glad people caught on and are tired of his BS.

Click it yourself and see.

Dude, being smart in a dumb world is my blessing and my curse at the same time.

What did I say that was BS? I just told him how the ECU estimates EGT’s and had a pretty good idea of how it estimates torque but would have to look at the strategy to be sure.

It’s not my fault you don’t understand anything.


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[Spawne32]

Dude, being smart in a dumb world is my blessing and my curse at the same time.

Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt4HU9uwXmXSAuI/giphy.gif

[Traptalk]

So sport mode on the dinan felt nice part throttle.

What I did was reset the apr file I was running just to clear adaptations and then before I started the car I set the dinan to sport.

Going to see if this method works better with sport+ and race versus just changing the dinan setting once’s it’s adapted some

[Traptalk]

Re tried that adaptation trick but this time with sport + and now the part throttle feels a lot better.

Very daily drivable, definitely a bit more aggressive than sport.

In the middle of moving idk when I’ll get a chance to get some real data

[schwiz23]

3rd times a charm I guess. I’m up and running! The car feels like a whole new animal now.

As Trap mentioned, we spent a little FaceTime and he walked through the proper wastegate setup with me. Glad he was nice enough to take the time because I was WAY OFF. I’m cracking at ~9.3psi on the green forge spring now.

For anyone running the ECS charge pipes, the clock of the turbo is super important so the turbo muffler aligns with the charge pipe. There isn’t a whole lot of wiggle room. I ended up mounting the turbo a few times and adjusting the clock with the turbo in position to get it perfect (this came before the wg adjustment with Trap).

Went to test drive and log data today and for whatever reason my IE cable stopped working. VCDS is still working but I was struggling to setup a log while I was out and driving. So, couldn’t get any logs today yet.

More to come shortly.

Thanks Trap!


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[schwiz23]

Was able to find a different cable for the IE logger.

https://datazap.me/u/schwiz/12112020-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=6-13-19-20

Only hit 260 g/s. There is still a dip in the charge pressure actual vs. requested from 2800 and 3700 RPMs, like my previous logs - same trend. It doesn't look as smooth as Trap's does. I changed fuel maps for a small period of time to reset adaptation, so maybe it needs more driving time? Either way, this is way better than previously. The car does feel completely different.

[Iceman502]

For anyone running the ECS charge pipes, the clock of the turbo is super important so the turbo muffler aligns with the charge pipe. There isn’t a whole lot of wiggle room. I ended up mounting the turbo a few times and adjusting the clock with the turbo in position to get it perfect (this came before the wg adjustment with Trap).

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FACTS. I had a custom radiator support bracket made because the charge pipe was rubbing the told one. Local aluminum welder nailed it for about $40

[SNice]

I already know you guys are going to say I’m slow but here goes...lol

210366

My best launch yet! I think I finally did it right because it actually felt like a launch! Lol. Thanks for the procedure, Traptalk!


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[Traptalk]

I already know you guys are going to say I’m slow but here goes...lol

210366

My best launch yet! I think I finally did it right because it actually felt like a launch! Lol. Thanks for the procedure, Traptalk!


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4.86 with 1 foot roll out like at the track ain’t bad for a first time. Pulling decent G force too without any tcu tune

Just keep practicing. You’ll know if Amax activated because you won’t have shift farts

[Traptalk]

Was able to find a different cable for the IE logger.

https://datazap.me/u/schwiz/12112020-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=6-13-19-20

Only hit 260 g/s. There is still a dip in the charge pressure actual vs. requested from 2800 and 3700 RPMs, like my previous logs - same trend. It doesn't look as smooth as Trap's does. I changed fuel maps for a small period of time to reset adaptation, so maybe it needs more driving time? Either way, this is way better than previously. The car does feel completely different.

Looks way better

Actually hitting and holding boost now.

Think the differences in our curve is simply from the frame rate. Mine was a relatively low frame rate compared to ie it seems

I’ve upped my frame rate for future logs

Just let it adapt some. Clear all dtc’s with vcds and try to wipe them

[EvolutionArmory]

Hey, another person is hitting boost by upping crack pressure somewhere between 8-10 PSI 🤣

All you gotta do now is get rid of some of that timing pull.

You should log lift pump and actual Lambda to make sure it’s not fuel related. You logged lambda spec but I didn’t see actual there.

Logging injector pulse might not be a bad idea too.

Once thing you could try is throwing some E85 or 100 octane in the tank to try to bump up octane. If timing pull goes down you’ll know it’s not mechanical.


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[Traptalk]

Boost looks way better with good spool.

Some dips tho

https://i.postimg.cc/zDjMkTr1/1-B0-E190-A-7009-41-E9-B327-CC14-EC7-A3-EA6.jpg

Definitely not getting the timing advance I was on 93 with a fair bit of pull in every cylinder so may need to experiment with different gas stations for better quality fuel. I only use Sunoco 93 and always have consistent timing

https://i.postimg.cc/tCvMKyJS/26-BABA87-250-F-4482-A4-F4-7-B2-B41-D58-CC9.jpg

Wastegate doesn’t go to 90%’s anymore but higher than mine is. Looks a bit choppy but I think adaptation is needed here

https://i.postimg.cc/Kv8Wp4G3/8-B1-B39-CA-47-F9-4576-A597-CB7-BA93621-E3.jpg

Air mass is a good climb and doesn’t flutter or back track

260’s is on the lower end of the spectrum but there’s a lot of variables to air mass like environment

That dip in the absolute load I have no explanation for but seems to match the dip in the boost. My log shows a very small dip before reaching peak as well I’ll have to get another log with better frame rate

https://i.postimg.cc/qqj5MHL7/2-B8-FA989-BB82-45-DE-93-E4-82-B2-A3-DEE651.jpg


I’m sure it had to be a very immediate difference to this before

https://i.postimg.cc/XX6pJt7T/EAAD03-AD-DAE0-43-C1-AE81-A55-A051290-BE.jpg

[Traptalk]

Definitely a step in right direction

[schwiz23]

The only place I’ve really seen 93 here is BP, so that’s what I’ve been filling up with. Lots of 91 options but not many 93. Not even sure I could find 100. I’ll have to do some research and see what my options are. Sunoco is not even a thing in the upper Midwest tundra.


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[Nano909]

The only place I’ve really seen 93 here is BP, so that’s what I’ve been filling up with. Lots of 91 options but not many 93. Not even sure I could find 100. I’ll have to do some research and see what my options are. Sunoco is not even a thing in the upper Midwest tundra.


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Welcome to the club. Lol. Theres a 100oct station near me for $10-$11 a gallon.

[Traptalk]

The only place I’ve really seen 93 here is BP, so that’s what I’ve been filling up with. Lots of 91 options but not many 93. Not even sure I could find 100. I’ll have to do some research and see what my options are. Sunoco is not even a thing in the upper Midwest tundra.


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I’ve hear bp isn’t the best before think was vast that told me that idr tho

You got shell? Or kwik fill? Noco?

Might just have to try all your options and see what logs best.

Could be a mechanical issue tho as well.

What are your plugs gapped to? Heat range?

[JLAllroad]

I’ve hear bp isn’t the best before think was vast that told me that idr tho

You got shell? Or kwik fill? Noco?

Might just have to try all your options and see what logs best.

Could be a mechanical issue tho as well.

What are your plugs gapped to? Heat range?

So remind me, you are both now running the same turbo (minus p&p), ECS vs IE IC, on APR, but a transmission difference 6spd man vs ZF8.

I would believe that there is still a missing link, assuming we are still short after a couple hundred adaptation miles without additional physical changes.

Something to consider, torque management differences due to the transmission?


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[Traptalk]

So remind me, you are both now running the same turbo (minus p&p), ECS vs IE IC, on APR, but a transmission difference 6spd man vs ZF8.

I would believe that there is still a missing link, assuming we are still short after a couple hundred adaptation miles without additional physical changes.

Something to consider, torque management differences due to the transmission?


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Main differences are the PnP, blanket, coatings, and wastegate spring

Bolt ons I’m sure play an effect as well

Currently running ngk 8’s gapped to .022”

[schwiz23]

What are your plugs gapped to? Heat range?

Running NGK BKR8EIX plugs and red Bosch coils.


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[Traptalk]

Running NGK BKR8EIX plugs and red Bosch coils.


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What gap tho?

[schwiz23]

What gap tho?

Can’t remember. Pretty sure those plugs are pre gapped. I suppose I could pull one and check.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Never trust pre gapped plugs. Always check or gap them yourself. And you may need to lower it from it’s pre gapped setting depending on your application.


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[schwiz23]

Per NGK's website, the gap is .031" (0.8mm) for the BKR8EIX plugs.

APR's website: "This software is designed for use with NGK BKR8EIX spark plugs gapped to 0.024" ±0.002" or 0.6mm ±0.05mm with a change interval of 10-15,000 mi or 16-24,000 km."

I'm due to change them so I'll get a set, change the gap then log again.

[EvolutionArmory]

You should be running at most a .028 gap. .026-.024 is said to run properly in a B8 K04.

Since you don’t report any misfires I don’t know if gap is really your problem but in addition to misfires, running the wrong gap can also cause preignition which might give you knock. Too wide of a gap won’t have enough bridge to get a good spark too.

Most people would say that the spark plug shouldn’t really hurt timing and in most cases they would probably be right but dropping your gap down to .024-.026 can’t hurt and you probably should if you’re at NGK’s pre set gap.


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[Spawne32]

Per NGK's website, the gap is .031" (0.8mm) for the BKR8EIX plugs.

APR's website: "This software is designed for use with NGK BKR8EIX spark plugs gapped to 0.024" ±0.002" or 0.6mm ±0.05mm with a change interval of 10-15,000 mi or 16-24,000 km."

I'm due to change them so I'll get a set, change the gap then log again.

Yes. .024 is the correct gap you should be using, we have had to go as low as .022 for the higher boost levels.

[schwiz23]

All the plugs were gapped to factory spec. I gapped the new plugs to .024. The plug I pulled out of cylinder 4 (the one closest to PCV) had a little bit of oil on it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/27f870e91d88ddf5f58a18d083a8bc1e.jpg


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[Traptalk]

All the plugs were gapped to factory spec. I gapped the new plugs to .024. The plug I pulled out of cylinder 4 (the one closest to PCV) had a little bit of oil on it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/27f870e91d88ddf5f58a18d083a8bc1e.jpg



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Do the other plugs have oil?

[schwiz23]

Do the other plugs have oil?

Negative. None. This one has just a little bit. Most of what you’re seeing is burning.


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[JLAllroad]

Negative. None. This one has just a little bit. Most of what you’re seeing is burning.


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Hard to tell but is it leaking from the top of the plug, valve cover gasket?(common)


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[schwiz23]

Hard to tell but is it leaking from the top of the plug, valve cover gasket?(common)


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Top of the plug, yes.


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[Nano909]

Per NGK's website, the gap is .031" (0.8mm) for the BKR8EIX plugs.

APR's website: "This software is designed for use with NGK BKR8EIX spark plugs gapped to 0.024" ±0.002" or 0.6mm ±0.05mm with a change interval of 10-15,000 mi or 16-24,000 km."

I'm due to change them so I'll get a set, change the gap then log again.

Weird as my 8's came out the box at 0.024.

[Traptalk]

Weird as my 8's came out the box at 0.024.

In a set of 4 I’ve seen 4 different gaps from .026 - .032”

Always gap yourself

[Spawne32]

In a set of 4 I’ve seen 4 different gaps from .026 - .032”

Always gap yourself

You know it baby.

https://i.imgur.com/i27QY2T.jpg

[Nano909]

In a set of 4 I’ve seen 4 different gaps from .026 - .032”

Always gap yourself

I've gotten lucky the many times I've bought themes from ECS. Always at 0.024. I always check before installing. I need that tool Spawne has though.

[Mars2]

Weird as my 8's came out the box at 0.024.

by NGK the number after the "-" is the gap in metric system. so for exemple a BKR8EIX-11 is 1.1mm gap, this will be a very bad choice to start to gap at 0.024"
you need to start with plug with gap as close as possible to the gap you want or the electrode will not be 90°
So you want to start with BKR8EIX-6 spark plug to achieve 0.024"
https://www.ngk.com/ngk-spark-plug-numbering-systems

[Nano909]

by NGK the number after the "-" is the gap in metric system. so for exemple a BKR8EIX-11 is 1.1mm gap, this will be a very bad choice to start to gap at 0.024"
you need to start with plug with gap as close as possible to the gap you want or the electrode will not be 90°
So you want to start with BKR8EIX-6 spark plug to achieve 0.024"
https://www.ngk.com/ngk-spark-plug-numbering-systems

Wow I did not know that. Next time I buy I'll post pics if it's at 0.024 with part number.

[old guy]

Wow I did not know that. Next time I buy I'll post pics if it's at 0.024 with part number.

Unfortunately I believe that particular plug is only available as the BKR8EIX which is an implied .8mm gap or the BKR8EIX-11 which is the 1.1mm gap.

[Mars2]

If no number after theX or "-" it's 0.8 to 0.9mm so.032 to .035"

[Mars2]

B5 RS4 had BKR8EIX-6 from factory
I order mine in France here. came gaped at .024
https://www.all-stars-motorsport.com/fr/bougie/12098-bougies-ngk-bkr8eix-pour-audi-s4-rs4-b5-27t-bkr8eix-6-0872951266848.html

[old guy]

B5 RS4 had BKR8EIX-6 from factory
I order mine in France here. came gaped at .024
https://www.all-stars-motorsport.com/fr/bougie/12098-bougies-ngk-bkr8eix-pour-audi-s4-rs4-b5-27t-bkr8eix-6-0872951266848.html

Nice find! I've never been able to find them before.

[Dpartinvr4]

These come at .028210585

[schwiz23]

by NGK the number after the "-" is the gap in metric system. so for exemple a BKR8EIX-11 is 1.1mm gap, this will be a very bad choice to start to gap at 0.024"
you need to start with plug with gap as close as possible to the gap you want or the electrode will not be 90°
So you want to start with BKR8EIX-6 spark plug to achieve 0.024"
https://www.ngk.com/ngk-spark-plug-numbering-systems

This is awesome, thanks!

[Nano909]

Nice find! I've never been able to find them before.

Not let's get ECS to sell these with the coils as a bundle for ~$120 lol

[old guy]

These come at .028


.031 (.8mm) Clicky click (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-2668-bkr8eix-iridium-ix-spark-plug)®

[harry]

Anyone try these? Jake@JHM recommended

[Dpartinvr4]

.031 (.8mm) Clicky click (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-2668-bkr8eix-iridium-ix-spark-plug)[emoji2400]I pulled them all out and used the feeler gauge they come at .028 lol

[Spawne32]

Anyone try these? Jake@JHM recommended

I believe Trap and BB played around with those. I am running the new ruthenium plugs, which you can see in the pic I posted. I have had no issues so far.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GbUX52Ltu8

[old guy]

all the more reason to always check the gap.:-)

[Traptalk]

Anyone try these? Jake@JHM recommended

These are like the plugs old guy sent me to play around with

Side gap profile is ideal for high hp applications but I’m unsure how to set a gap with the tri ground plugs

A lot of real race cars only use copper plugs. Say give the best spark and they aren’t worried about longevity

Edit : I haven’t gotten a chance to play around with the plugs @old guy sent me yet. With all the misfire issues was having didn’t have a clean baseline to compare to before

After my move and I’m settled in I plan to experiment with those

[Traptalk]

These come at .028210585

These exact plugs every time I order all 4 will be at different gaps

[Traptalk]

B5 RS4 had BKR8EIX-6 from factory
I order mine in France here. came gaped at .024
https://www.all-stars-motorsport.com/fr/bougie/12098-bougies-ngk-bkr8eix-pour-audi-s4-rs4-b5-27t-bkr8eix-6-0872951266848.html

Interesting.

You euro guys always have the cooler stuff

[Mars2]

Did some use the Bosch F5DP0R? Those are OEM spark plug on my Audi RS2. Never had any misfire with 31Psi of boost. Maybe I should try those in the Van

[Iceman502]

These are like the plugs old guy sent me to play around with

Side gap profile is ideal for high hp applications but I’m unsure how to set a gap with the tri ground plugs

A lot of real race cars only use copper plugs. Say give the best spark and they aren’t worried about longevity

Edit : I haven’t gotten a chance to play around with the plugs @old guy sent me yet. With all the misfire issues was having didn’t have a clean baseline to compare to before

After my move and I’m settled in I plan to experiment with those

Did you ever switch out plugs when you were having breakups up top?

I talked with my Marine mechanic once about tri ground plugs, and he strongly recommended against them for any direct injection engine, particularly marine engines. Since standard outboards have one gear in drive, your operating rpms are always high, anywhere from 3-5k on average for most cruising conditions. In his experience, the extra material from a tri ground plug can interfere with the injector spray pattern causing misfires. That's less noticeable in a road engine with a transmission to gear down the engine operating speed, but becomes more pronounced at higher rpms. Adding boost would exacerbate it.

[Traptalk]

Did some use the Bosch F5DP0R? Those are OEM spark plug on my Audi RS2. Never had any misfire with 31Psi of boost. Maybe I should try those in the Van

Those are the Bosch side fires iirc

Very hard to find now but they were the oem plugs on the AAN engines


Remember when I looked last Apikol was the only one in the states who still carried them (they have been discontinued) but they sell for like $27 each


That’s a lot for a plug that doesn’t hold it’s gap long. Main issue with a side fire plug is that the gaps often up a lot quicker

https://apikol.com/product/bosch-f5dpor-spark-plug/

[Traptalk]

Did you ever switch out plugs when you were having breakups up top?

I talked with my Marine mechanic once about tri ground plugs, and he strongly recommended against them for any direct injection engine, particularly marine engines. Since standard outboards have one gear in drive, your operating rpms are always high, anywhere from 3-5k on average for most cruising conditions. In his experience, the extra material from a tri ground plug can interfere with the injector spray pattern causing misfires. That's less noticeable in a road engine with a transmission to gear down the engine operating speed, but becomes more pronounced at higher rpms. Adding boost would exacerbate it.


When I was still breaking up the only plug experiment I tried was taking new ngk 8’s that most of us are using and I cut down the ground prong to be more of a side gap.

Did this as a test to see if would stop the misfires, which it didn’t, so I didn’t have to spend $100 + since 4 ngk 8’s are like the price of a single Bosch side fire

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/907820-Modified-spark-plug-experiment

But now that the misfires are gone and I have a solid baseline for knock without meth I can get some real data

[Spawne32]

Did some use the Bosch F5DP0R? Those are OEM spark plug on my Audi RS2. Never had any misfire with 31Psi of boost. Maybe I should try those in the Van

That was me. The gap grew fairly quick on my second set once I started running high boost. No clue why. Never had any misfire troubles related to the plugs though.

[Mars2]

This morning I finally finished my new intake for testing. This afternoon I did a 3 log before installing the new intake, then install it and then 2 run to log again a couple hour after to see if any gain. I did all those log on same stretch of road at 50 meter above sea level. all run where done with 5°C (41°F)

- It went from 283G/s at around 6100rpm to 297G/s at 6200RPM.
- N75 duty went down from about 85 to 75%
- Boost went up by 0,2 bar around 6100-6200 rpm. This was done with racechip plugged so the value that you see are not the real boost value. On the second run I saw almost 22PSI at 6000rpm on the boost gauge.
214131
I was thinking that the T6 long intake pipe from turbo to my custom made airbox with AEM cone filter inside was a big restriction to my IHI hybrid. Look like it was
here picture of the culprit!

214132

Not bad for a OEM IHI JH5 with just a bigger compressor wheel 😀
Now I need to go back on that same dyno I always go to double check if the gain are real.

[19birel]

This morning I finally finished my new intake for testing. This afternoon I did a 3 log before installing the new intake, then install it and then 2 run to log again a couple hour after to see if any gain. I did all those log on same stretch of road at 50 meter above sea level. all run where done with 5°C (41°F)

- It went from 283G/s at around 6100rpm to 297G/s at 6200RPM.
- N75 duty went down from about 85 to 75%
- Boost went up by 0,2 bar around 6100-6200 rpm. This was done with racechip plugged so the value that you see are not the real boost value. On the second run I saw almost 22PSI at 6000rpm
214131
I was thinking that the T6 long intake pipe from turbo to my custom made airbox with AEM cone filter inside was a big restriction to my IHI hybrid. Look like it was
here picture of the culprit!

214132

Not bad for a OEM IHI JH5 with just a bigger compressor wheel 😀
Now I need to go back on that same dyno I always go to double check if the gain are real.

What did you replace those parts with to achieve better flow?

[Mars2]

I build a turbo to intake aluminium pipe 2.35 to 3.25 that goes in the oem airbox from the bottom and I have a big AEM cone filter in that OEM airbox.
the original pipe was almost 2 feet the new one is only 6 inch long and then MAF ad cone filter.

I build something like that drawing that i did almost a year ago
214135

Also on MY van my turbo don't have the long neck that you guy's have on B8. So from the compressor wheel it straight 2inch of 2.35 pipe then a Cone of 2inch going from 2.35 to 3.25 then a 10cm 40° 3.25 pipe then the MAF and cone filter.

214134

This make think that maybe this long neck intake on B8 turbo could be a restriction?

[A4x]

What's the best way to check for shaft play on these K04s? Would any radial play indicate possible oil leakage past the turbo seals?

Any way to easily get a view of the compressor wheel?

[Chillaxin]

What's the best way to check for shaft play on these K04s? Would any radial play indicate possible oil leakage past the turbo seals?

Any way to easily get a view of the compressor wheel?

Pull the intake piping before the compressor and check by hand there.

[A4x]

Pull the intake piping before the compressor and check by hand there.

Can't easily see the compressor wheel from the turbo inlet pipe. Maybe from the outlet underneath? I still don't think it can be seen.

[schwiz23]

Harborfreight has a borescope that you can buy, then return for a $15 restocking fee. Don’t ask how I know this. :)

Could stick the camera in the intake side of the turbo to see the wheel. You could also remove the closest O2 sensor and stick the borescope on there to see the smaller side of the wheel.


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[EvolutionArmory]

The best way to check for shaft play is from the exhaust side. Just remove your cat and down pipe.


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[Traptalk]

What's the best way to check for shaft play on these K04s? Would any radial play indicate possible oil leakage past the turbo seals?

Any way to easily get a view of the compressor wheel?

With these journal bearing turbos some up and down play is normal but in and out is what I’d be worried about.

[Traptalk]

If the turbo muffler is deleted you should a decent window at the tips of the blades from the outlet

At least on mine with the muffler delete off I have a view, not the best view tho

[A4x]

I'll see if I can get a look from the compressor outlet side. Otherwise a cheap boroscope might be good. Last resort is what evo says below.


The best way to check for shaft play is from the exhaust side. Just remove your cat and down pipe.


You make it sound so easy. Havn't attempted this myself yet, but it might be time to have a go.

[schwiz23]

I'll see if I can get a look from the compressor outlet side. Otherwise a cheap boroscope might be good. Last resort is what evo says below.



You make it sound so easy. Havn't attempted this myself yet, but it might be time to have a go.

You can do it! Long breaker bars and socket extensions will make it much easier. If you have a wobble socket too that would be handy. Then you’ll be able to use your fingers to see how much play there is.

Take the airbox and inlet hose off. Cover the turbo inlet with a rag. Remove the 4 nuts connecting the downpipe to the turbo and slide the downpipe off. If needed use a 13 socket and wrench to remove screw and spring holding the downpipe to the chassis (you can get to this from the top of the engine bay).

Evo is right tho, this is probably the best way to tell because you’ll be able to clearly see the blade.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I'll see if I can get a look from the compressor outlet side. Otherwise a cheap boroscope might be good. Last resort is what evo says below.



You make it sound so easy. Havn't attempted this myself yet, but it might be time to have a go.

Is removing the cat and downpipe super hard on a B8? Most of you guys have auto trans and I didn’t consider that it might be harder to do/less room.

I can take the whole downpipe with the cat still attached out in like 20 minutes on my car. It just all snakes out from the top. Manual trans though.

Checking it from the back is going to be the easiest way to actually get a good feel for play though. You’ll have some side to side play due to not having oil going through it but you’ll be able to check for in and out play super easy from the back.


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[Iceman502]

If needed use a 13 socket and wrench to remove screw and spring holding the downpipe to the chassis (you can get to this from the top of the engine bay).

Evo is right tho, this is probably the best way to tell because you’ll be able to clearly see the blade.



Is removing the cat and downpipe super hard on a B8? Most of you guys have auto trans and I didn’t consider that it might be harder to do/less room.

I can take the whole downpipe with the cat still attached out in like 20 minutes on my car. It just all snakes out from the top. Manual trans though.



Of the 4 nuts that connect the cat to the exhaust manifold, two bolts are easy to access, one on the upper inside is more challenging but can be done, and the lower inside is done all by feel. I don't think there is any angle that it can be seen from. To slip the cat all the way off the studs and create enough wiggle room to get your hand on the wheel, I think removing the support bolt/spring will be necessary. I've only ever removed it from underneath the car but good to know it can be done from the top too.

[Grouch]

It took my friend and I six hours to swap out the stock cat to my Ecode HFC. Took him less than two hours swapping out my Ecode to my IE. It's a lot more space to work in with the HFC in place since it's so much thinner.

[EvolutionArmory]

Of the 4 nuts that connect the cat to the exhaust manifold, two bolts are easy to access, one on the upper inside is more challenging but can be done, and the lower inside is done all by feel. I don't think there is any angle that it can be seen from. To slip the cat all the way off the studs and create enough wiggle room to get your hand on the wheel, I think removing the support bolt/spring will be necessary. I've only ever removed it from underneath the car but good to know it can be done from the top too.

My car is a manual B7. You might not be able to snake it all out from the top like I can.


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[Mars2]

So as I was so happy yesterday from my new intake increasing the MAF by 12G/s ( 296G/S)
Today I went again to that same dyno that I go since day I was on OEM tune.
I gain 26 Hp on first run compare to my last dyno and 36 HP on second Run.
I also gain 80NM at peak torque ( going from 505Nm to 585Nm) so the 28PSI is really effective compare to 24PSI on my last dyno
Compare to my first run on that dyno with OEM tune ( Was 213 CHP and 340Nm) I gain 202CHP and 245Nm
I have some trouble in the 5000Rpm to 5500rpm I think that with the piggy back I'm asking too much boost creating some turbo yoyo effect.
I will log more and try with a target boost a bit lower in that area.

214292


PS:" Puissance roues" mean WHP uncorrected

[Mars2]

I would be very happy with something like the dot red line.

214300

[Traptalk]

So as I was so happy yesterday from my new intake increasing the MAF by 12G/s ( 296G/S)
Today I went again to that same dyno that I go since day I was on OEM tune.
I gain 26 Hp on first run compare to my last dyno and 36 HP on second Run.
I also gain 80NM at peak torque ( going from 505Nm to 585Nm) so the 28PSI is really effective compare to 24PSI on my last dyno
Compare to my first run on that dyno with OEM tune ( Was 213 CHP and 340Nm) I gain 202CHP and 245Nm
I have some trouble in the 5000Rpm to 5500rpm I think that with the piggy back I'm asking too much boost creating some turbo yoyo effect.
I will log more and try with a target boost a bit lower in that area.

214292


PS:" Puissance roues" mean WHP uncorrected

Very surprised a intake alone would add that much power. Must of had a pretty restrictive intake on there before.

Congrats tho those are pretty solid wheel numbers despite the top end break ups

Huge power band too seems to instantly take off

[Mars2]

Sorry If I explain wrong but it's not only the Intake.
The intake gave extra11-13 G/s so about 15 to 18 CHP at 6000rpm ( yes the oem pipe must be very restrictive on the T6) but I also fit a 3.5 to 3 downpipe that gave 2-4 G/s and JB4 with a 1.5 psi extra at 6000rpm and 4 psi extra from 3000 rpm to almost 5200rpm.
the 5Th injector let me have enough fueling to increase boost.

The biggest gain is the torque/HP midrange and this is a lot due to going from 24 to 28 psi.
I gain a lot of Hp moving down the peak hp from 6150rpm to 5700rpm by adding lot of boost from 4000 rpm to 6000rpm.
Feeling up the curve under 6000rpm. I copy what some tuner do here in europe and call Stage 2+ on EA113 with K04-064 OEM.

The turbo take off exactly like the oem one. It' just under 2000 rpm that it's slower transient boost. But I'm not often their.

[Nano909]

So oem intakes are restrictive huh. 🤣

[EvolutionArmory]

So oem intakes are restrictive huh. 🤣

When it’s 3 feet long and has a kink in it, yes. When it’s only 6 inches away from the turbo, no.


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[JLAllroad]

So oem intakes are restrictive huh. 🤣

You did see the straw that his van was drinking out of correct, how much hp was that built for?

It is known that replacing the tip and filter will remove the largest intake restrictions on the B8/8.5.

I lost ~7g/s going back to an OE panel filter vs an aFe, still using an ECS tip, stock box.

214344


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[Nano909]

Why's the guy with the inferior car still commenting here? It was great not seeing his posts for a few days. The good old days.

[Nano909]

You did see the straw that his van was drinking out of correct, how much hp was that built for?

It is known that replacing the tip and filter will remove the largest intake restrictions on the B8/8.5.

I lost ~7g/s going back to an OE panel filter vs an aFe, still using an ECS tip, stock box.

214344


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I ran the stock intake with AFE filter for a few thousand miles and felt the car was much less responsive. I tried it and couldn't do it anymore. Went back to K&N and my car felt much better. Lol

[EvolutionArmory]

Why's the guy with the inferior car still commenting here? It was great not seeing his posts for a few days. The good old days.

Because the OP invited me to this thread.

Post any logs, dyno numbers or Draggy runs of your car yet?

Contributed in any useful way yet?

Why does the guy who talks the most BS always contribute the least amount of info?


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[Traptalk]

Sorry If I explain wrong but it's not only the Intake.
The intake gave extra11-13 G/s so about 15 to 18 CHP at 6000rpm ( yes the oem pipe must be very restrictive on the T6) but I also fit a 3.5 to 3 downpipe that gave 2-4 G/s and JB4 with a 1.5 psi extra at 6000rpm and 4 psi extra from 3000 rpm to almost 5200rpm.
the 5Th injector let me have enough fueling to increase boost.

The biggest gain is the torque/HP midrange and this is a lot due to going from 24 to 28 psi.
I gain a lot of Hp moving down the peak hp from 6150rpm to 5700rpm by adding lot of boost from 4000 rpm to 6000rpm.
Feeling up the curve under 6000rpm. I copy what some tuner do here in europe and call Stage 2+ on EA113 with K04-064 OEM.

The turbo take off exactly like the oem one. It' just under 2000 rpm that it's slower transient boost. But I'm not often their.



Oh ok so first dyno since intake, downpipe, jb4, and the 5th injector ?

[Traptalk]

Because the OP invited me to this thread.

Post any logs, dyno numbers or Draggy runs of your car yet?

Contributed in any useful way yet?

Why does the guy who talks the most BS always contribute the least amount of info?


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You’re always welcome to contribute bud.

It’s the bickering I don’t I like.

Thank you for not going back and forth

[Traptalk]

You did see the straw that his van was drinking out of correct, how much hp was that built for?

It is known that replacing the tip and filter will remove the largest intake restrictions on the B8/8.5.

I lost ~7g/s going back to an OE panel filter vs an aFe, still using an ECS tip, stock box.

214344


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The turbo inlet on all the transverse cars is a huge upgrade since it’s essentially making a 90* bend right out of the turbo.

Even more so on the gen 3 ea888’s and the daza 2.5’s

[Traptalk]

I hope everyone had a good holiday and happy New Years !

As a lot of you know I was in a fender bender 2 days before Xmas

Hoping to have her back soon...

This 2021 Passat rental is making me appreciate how much 300whp really is and how quick a mid 12 second car really is

[JLAllroad]

This 2021 Passat rental is making me appreciate how much 300whp really is and how quick a mid 12 second car really is

You’re going to have to recalibrate your right foot....be careful on that first application.

Driving a loaner might just be the best upgrade.


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[JLAllroad]

I ran the stock intake with AFE filter for a few thousand miles and felt the car was much less responsive. I tried it and couldn't do it anymore. Went back to K&N and my car felt much better. Lol

Remind me, did you log the different set up’s?


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[Nano909]

He got invited but when he was asked to leave the other post by the OP he wouldn't leave [emoji1787]

[EvolutionArmory]

Remind me, did you log the different set up’s?


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Nope. Talks a lot of smack though. I’d like to see some/any data from him.

So if my car is making between 285-290 GS peak depending on the day I log, will adding a CAI bump me up to 300? Doubtful.

I think he just gets distracted by the spooly boi noises and think he’s making power.


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[Mars2]

I thought all night about this 40HP! dip at 5500rpm on my dyno sheet and look at log that I did with JB4 of this area just after the dyno and I don't get it.
Their is no dip in boost, no throttle closure, no dip in timing.
their is 2 place where AFR goes to 10.1 but normaly with E85 that should even give more power.
I start to think their has been some slippage on the dyno? what do you think?

I don't have those AFR 10.1 dip when I log for 3000 rpm because the STFT have had time to adjust for the extra fuel from 5Th injector by 5000RPM
When I log from 3000 rpm the deep is at about 4200 rpm.
Do you guy's wjo inject MEth also have deep in your AFR curve? If no how did you cure that?

screen shot of 4900rpm to 6400rpm area
214461

[Traptalk]

I thought all night about this 40HP! dip at 5500rpm on my dyno sheet and look at log that I did with JB4 of this area just after the dyno and I don't get it.
Their is no dip in boost, no throttle closure, no dip in timing.
their is 2 place where AFR goes to 10.1 but normaly with E85 that should even give more power.
I start to think their has been some slippage on the dyno? what do you think?

I don't have those AFR 10.1 dip when I log for 3000 rpm because the STFT have had time to adjust for the extra fuel from 5Th injector by 5000RPM
When I log from 3000 rpm the deep is at about 4200 rpm.
Do you guy's wjo inject MEth also have deep in your AFR curve? If no how did you cure that?

screen shot of 4900rpm to 6400rpm area
214461

Is your van front wheel drive? If it is wheel spin is highly likely


https://i.postimg.cc/MZfBVTsc/853-EE91-F-7492-4-BE9-AF41-3066-EE1-C1-E8-A.jpg

This is a log with meth. Can see the lambda runs a bit more rich than the target during peak boost and then as the meth ramps up can see the stft drop to -22% towards the top end (haven’t refined the meth system for what’s fastest - just what stops all timing corrections)

Lambda stays pretty close with the target after the stft adjustments tho

[EvolutionArmory]

If I inject meth too early I get a pretty big dip. This is with a 6 psi start injection setting.
214462

If I move injection start to 10 PSI or higher it goes away.


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[Mars2]

Is your van front wheel drive? If it is wheel spin is highly likely


https://i.postimg.cc/MZfBVTsc/853-EE91-F-7492-4-BE9-AF41-3066-EE1-C1-E8-A.jpg

This is a log with meth. Can see the lambda runs a bit more rich than the target during peak boost and then as the meth ramps up can see the stft drop to -22% towards the top end (haven’t refined the meth system for what’s fastest - just what stops all timing corrections)

Lambda stays pretty close with the target after the stft adjustments tho

My Van is 4WD with Haldex. But as it's too long the rear wheel can not fit on any dyno rear roller that we got here.
So we unplug Haldex and pass in in FWD.

[Mars2]

About the dip in the AFR curve/

- Do you guy's inject a steady quantity?

I have the feeling my trouble come because I use a 3D map ( rpm, boost, Injection time in m/s) that I get those trouble.
As the time of injection move all time depending on rpm and boost. So STFT has to adjust too it non stop maybe I should put a steady injection time making it easier for the STFT to adjust.
Other wise I ave the feeling that they are always one step behind what is heading in the engine when rpm climb.


Here my last Map that I did and was runing on the dyno. The idea is to only start to inject a bit before the point where my car was starting to run lean with only 4DI injector.
So that most of the time I only rely on the DI injector's.
214464

[Traptalk]

My Van is 4WD with Haldex. But as it's too long the rear wheel can not fit on any dyno rear roller that we got here.
So we unplug Haldex and pass in in FWD.

Supposedly if you can find one that will fit you will measure more power because of the extra loading

Check your logs of your dyno pull and see if there is any differences in your boost between fwd and awd

https://youtu.be/jLkeb-ZvxmA

Thought that was interesting.

The dyno operator should be able to tell yoy if the van was spinning bad. It’s weight might of helped it

[EvolutionArmory]

Mars, could the fact that you’re running a piggy back be the cause of your fuel trim issue? I mean, the sensor data is being manipulated and isn’t really true so that may be the cause of the AFR issue.

Running piggy back tunes on top of a legit ECU tunes makes me very nervous.


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[Mars2]

Supposedly if you can find one that will fit you will measure more power because of the extra loading

Check your logs of your dyno pull and see if there is any differences in your boost between fwd and awd

https://youtu.be/jLkeb-ZvxmA

Thought that was interesting.

The dyno operator should be able to tell yoy if the van was spinning bad. It’s weight might of helped it

It defenetly look like wheel spin:
https://www.boostaddict.com/content.php?5878-Here-is-what-wheelspin-looks-like-on-the-dyno-and-what-a-2000-horsepower-Nissan-GTR-Dynojet-graph-looks-like

I will use a virtual dyno for iPhone to see if on the road i also get this big dip in power curve at 5500 rpm.
Just use for power curve shape not for value. If it's an engine issue it should have same dip if it's slip on dyno then on virtual dyno their should be no dip.

[Mars2]

Mars, could the fact that you’re running a piggy back be the cause of your fuel trim issue? I mean, the sensor data is being manipulated and isn’t really true so that may be the cause of the AFR issue.

Running piggy back tunes on top of a legit ECU tunes makes me very nervous.


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I had the exact same thought as you. So I reduced on JB4 boost so that I can run without 5t injector plugged in, and then I did a run with 5TH injector unplugged and NO DIP
So i think that rule this out?

see that run
214480

[EvolutionArmory]

Just don’t end up like this guy trying to run too much boost with a piggy back tune.

The fact that he had piston ring failure might suggest a lean condition or way too hot cylinder temps cause by running too much boost for the car to adapt the correct fuel needed. That’s just one possible scenario which could have caused his failure.

https://youtu.be/t2n_3LsWzLM


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[Mars2]

I'm cheating with E85 so that give me margin for mistake's 🤪

[Mars2]

I asked two tuner MRC (Mineha) and Dyno Spectrum ( John Banks) what boost they use Stage 2 on C7 RS4 that have 2 IHI JH5 with same wheel as I have in my hybrid.
They both said peak between 1.8 and 1.9 bar tapering to 1.5 Bar

Mihnea ( from MRC) did my Audi RS2 back in 2001 when he had no shop/ company and was moving around with his small Opel to tune car at people place. road tuning
John Banks did my Subaru GC8 back in 1998 when he was doing all tuning from home. You had to send him your ECU in UK and wait he send it back to you.

[Mars2]

So to find out if had wheel spin on the dyno, I did some run with a virtual dyno App called "Perf Expert"
On first run with the car just warmed up I had no dip in the power curve
then on second and third run it started to come
On 4th run with car super hot I got back the dip exactly like on dyno.

So it is not wheel spin.
Yesterday when I did the dyno the car was also super hot as I arrive from a 30 minute drive on motorway at around 100MPH and was strap on dyno 5 minute later.


Now I have to log with car super hot to find out what is happening! The shity thing is you can't log with JB4 so I will need to put back Racechip but if I don't find any mistake then I will never know
if it' s because it's JB4 that induce that problem or it's something else. JB4 is really a stupid device for that.

here the last run on " Perf expert" with the dip. please don't look at the number' I made the car heavier on the setting to exaggerated the dip if their was one. dip is exactly at same rpm that on red curve on my dyno sheet.

214680

[Traptalk]

So to find out if had wheel spin on the dyno, I did some run with a virtual dyno App called "Perf Expert"
On first run with the car just warmed up I had no dip in the power curve
then on second and third run it started to come
On 4th run with car super hot I got back the dip exactly like on dyno.

So it is not wheel spin.
Yesterday when I did the dyno the car was also super hot as I arrive from a 30 minute drive on motorway at around 100MPH and was strap on dyno 5 minute later.


Now I have to log with car super hot to find out what is happening! The shity thing is you can't log with JB4 so I will need to put back Racechip but if I don't find any mistake then I will never know
if it' s because it's JB4 that induce that problem or it's something else. JB4 is really a stupid device for that.

here the last run on " Perf expert" with the dip. please don't look at the number' I made the car heavier on the setting to exaggerated the dip if their was one. dip is exactly at same rpm that on red curve on my dyno sheet.

214680

Very interesting

Would give me reason to believe a component is misbehaving with heat

Wonder if it’s fuel related or what tho

I take it that obd2 splitter didn’t work with the jb4?

[EvolutionArmory]

I’d be curious to see what estimated EGT’s are.


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[bb-tt]

Getting the HPT tune dialed in

https://i.imgur.com/PDW4fFH.png

B8 Avant
cts ko4
CTS HFC
IE FDS IC
E-code tip/pipes/sound box delete
AFE drop in filter
R8 coils
NGK ruthenium plugs

TJdubbs HPT ECU tune
bb/bg HPT tcu tune

93 oct pump gas
4160 LBS
stock exhaust
19" s-line rims
TTRS 4 pot brembo 355x32mm rotor front/ s4 330 rear

[Mars2]

I’d be curious to see what estimated EGT’s are.


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When you run 100% E85 the estimate EGT will be wrong because MED17 don't know you are on E85 so it will use algorithm based on Gas pump. E85 run much cooler and can tolerate much more advanced timing. My tuner say's that on 100% E85 you will reach the point of no gain before you get any knock.
So that is kind of useless with E85.

let's see when I log if I have timing pull or if i'm missing some fueling at some point.
depending of those log result's I can investigate deeper.

Could be the LPFP not supplying enough at one stage or could be some part rating making the MED17 think their is some knock or could be what ever...
logging should help narrow this.

Ps: for traptalk, yes splitter did not work. cannot log with VCDS and have JB4 connected. I asked JB4 if their was a way to connect it to cam sensor to get rpm info and cancel OBDII connection.
George told me that they would investigate that. But since he don't reply any of my email anymore!

[EvolutionArmory]

Sounds like you should probably sell the piggy back. If it was safe to run those boost levels, the bigger tuners would be running more than 22 PSI.


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[Traptalk]

Sounds like you should probably sell the piggy back. If it was safe to run those boost levels, the bigger tuners would be running more than 22 PSI.


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Not entirely true

Most tuners aren’t running more than 22-23psi because they can’t bypass the limit

[19birel]

When you run 100% E85 the estimate EGT will be wrong because MED17 don't know you are on E85 so it will use algorithm based on Gas pump. E85 run much cooler and can tolerate much more advanced timing. My tuner say's that on 100% E85 you will reach the point of no gain before you get any knock.
So that is kind of useless with E85.

let's see when I log if I have timing pull or if i'm missing some fueling at some point.
depending of those log result's I can investigate deeper.

Could be the LPFP not supplying enough at one stage or could be some part rating making the MED17 think their is some knock or could be what ever...
logging should help narrow this.

Ps: for traptalk, yes splitter did not work. cannot log with VCDS and have JB4 connected. I asked JB4 if their was a way to connect it to cam sensor to get rpm info and cancel OBDII connection.
George told me that they would investigate that. But since he don't reply any of my email anymore!

I followed up with him about some of the data not showing up in the logs and he told me they haven't had any customer cars in the shop due to Covid so they haven't been able to make progress on that end. I imagine the same thing is the delay for them testing a cam sensor connection.

I just want to be able to log IATs haha

[Mars2]

So today I remove JB4 put back Racechip and bingo I can't feel any dip anymore.
Also the super reach fueling dip with 10.3 AFR are gone every thing is nice and clean with 0° of correction.
SO more and more I think that JB4 is a peace of shit. But most will never know because they can't log with VCDS. Maybe that is made on purpose 😀 now I start to fall in the conspiracy theory!!!
I hate conspiracy theory.

Here are my log done at higher altitude than last time ( 180M high) and hoter 13°C

-Fueling Log with Race Chip ( Boost is what RC let MED17 see)
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610104947?log=0&data=0-2-3-4-5-6

- ignition Log With Race Chip ( Boost is what RC let MED17 see)
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610104157?log=0&data=0-1-2-3-4-5

- This is log from split second getting intake manifold boost by silicone pipe and it got it's own internal MAP also you can see the injection time of the fifth injector
Boost curve is just tiny more that what I had with JB4.
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610106804?log=0&data=0-1-2-3&mark=78

[bb-tt]

So today I remove JB4 put back Racechip and bingo I can't feel any dip anymore.
Also the super reach fueling dip with 10.3 AFR are gone every thing is nice and clean with 0° of correction.
SO more and more I think that JB4 is a peace of shit. But most will never know because they can't log with VCDS. Maybe that is made on purpose 😀 now I start to fall in the conspiracy theory!!!
I hate conspiracy theory.

Here are my log done at higher altitude than last time ( 180M high) and hoter 13°C

-Fueling Log with Race Chip ( Boost is what RC let MED17 see)
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610104947?log=0&data=0-2-3-4-5-6

- ignition Log With Race Chip ( Boost is what RC let MED17 see)
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610104157?log=0&data=0-1-2-3-4-5

- This is log from split second getting intake manifold boost by silicone pipe and it got it's own internal MAP also you can see the injection time of the fifth injector
Boost curve is just tiny more that what I had with JB4.
https://datazap.me/u/fabt6tsi/log-1610106804?log=0&data=0-1-2-3&mark=78

JB4 seems legit, buddy just picked up s3 after his 11 10 second A6 got totaled, stock s3 was 13.12 with jb4 ran 12.58. Not being able to log would be an issue for me though.

[Mars2]

JB4 on MQB is a very good finished product. every thing is activated.
JB4 on B8 is a non finished product still in BETA with lot of features not activated and they make you pay full price like if it was a finished product. That is not fair.
They never got a B8 in their shop, they tested with guy's that don't had VCDS to get a base line, never put the car on a dyno....... It's a bling bling gadget for children.

I will leave it on the garage shelves waiting JB4 offer update to make it finished product.

At the moment for me Racechip at 120 Euro is a far more superior product than JB4 audi B8
I have invest 500 Euro in JB4 for futur if one day JB4 get a B8 in their shop in South Africa with I highly doubt. I have to ask my friend if their is any EA888.2 B8 in SA or if it has even been imported their.

[bb-tt]

JB4 on MQB is a very good finished product. every thing is activated.
JB4 on B8 is a non finished product still in BETA with lot of fear not activated a,d they make you pay full price like if it was a finished product. That is not fair.
They never got a B8 in their shop, they tested with guy's that don't had VCDS to get a base line, never put the car on a dyno....... It's a bling bling gadget for children.

I will leave it on the garage shelves waiting JB4 offer update to make it finished product.

At the moment for me Racechip at 120 Euro is a far more superior product than JB4 audi B8
I have invest 500 Euro in JB4 for futur if one day JB4 get a B8 in their shop in South Africa with I highly doubt. I have to ask my friend if their is any EA888.2 B8 in SA or if it has even been imported their.

ouch that is pricy figured they were a couple hundred bucks, for that price you could get a real tune.

[Mars2]

I have a real tune but my tuner don't want to spend the time to go around the 24psi limit for only one T6 TSI in full France
I understand him.
SO I have to find tricks. Why the JB4. I thought it would be on same level as for MQB.

[bb-tt]

I have a real tune but my tuner don't want to spend the time to go around the 24psi limit for only one T6 TSI in full France
I understand him.
SO I have to find tricks. Why the JB4. I thought it would be on same level as for MQB.

sorry wasn't implying you didnt have a real tune, think your van would probably gap most of us. But before i spent 500$ on box in the states would go with OTS tune. if it was only $200 bucks that would be another story, but also doubt we would get same results as the gen 3 motors.

[Mars2]

No worry's. I just wanted to make that clear.
I have lot of respect for guy's like you trying to go different road.
For me different road is exiting as you learn at each step. Learning from mistake also
The Learning curve.

[Mars2]

my Van is 2.2 tone wit the shape of a brick so i think tat even the guy with the worst K04 tune will walked away from me 🤣 easy

[19birel]

sorry wasn't implying you didnt have a real tune, think your van would probably gap most of us. But before i spent 500$ on box in the states would go with OTS tune. if it was only $200 bucks that would be another story, but also doubt we would get same results as the gen 3 motors.

As things stand with how the datalogging is I'm not sure how much its worth getting if you're running a K04, at least for the time being.

On a stock turbo though, the results are definitely there, the JB4 nets stage 2 power levels on a completely stock car. I had JB4->stage 2 flash-> stack and the stage 2 flash honestly underwhelmed me until I did the stack.

It's really nice, but beyond stock turbo could use some finishing touches to make it as effective as what the MQB guys have (relatively speaking, as the gen3 motor is a step above ours)

[Mars2]

Sorry but but IE stage 2 is not a stage 2. IE OTS is totally underpowered. On this I 2000% join Evo.

Do you those have those number form your IE tune:
- Boost curve (peak and 6200 rpm)
- Timing curve through rpm
- AFR through Rpm.

Do you have log of it before you staked? not a logged you would have done later after removing that shit JB4

[Mars2]

it's funny George told me that I have big trouble with my fueling when I send him my JB4 log.
Then I thought he is maybe right. I did 8 revision of my fueling map. but anything I changed the AFR and Trim curve stay same.
3 day's ago I went back to my second revision.
Today I put back Race chip ( same boost curve) so that I can log Fueling, ignition and I see that my fueling is spot on.

What do you call a product that give you false log???

- - - Updated - - -

My wife call those thing USELESS

[Mars2]

I stop to talk about JB4 here
it is polution to this post. Sorry I did that polution
We can continue on the postt I did RC vs JB4

[EvolutionArmory]

Basically most or all tuning boxes are giving you false info. That’s the basis of how all of them work to begin with.

They’re dangerous as a stand alone product. Double the danger when stacked with a real tune because you’re already pushing it and there’s less headroom for safety.


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[19birel]

Sorry but but IE stage 2 is not a stage 2. IE OTS is totally underpowered. On this I 2000% join Evo.

Do you those have those number form your IE tune:
- Boost curve (peak and 6200 rpm)
- Timing curve through rpm
- AFR through Rpm.

Do you have log of it before you staked? not a logged you would have done later after removing that shit JB4

Yeah I logged boost and AFR, if I remember right something was up with how the JB4 logs timing though. It runs well and is fast enough so I haven't even connected to the JB4 app in months, I've just been driving haha.

With regards to IE's OTS, I thought it was just confirmed that their K04 tune was weaker. If there's data out there that shows the Stage 2 is weak I'd be interested to see it, I'm not doubting that it's weak, I'm genuinely curious.

[Mars2]

what I mean is did You log with something else than JB4 as base line before staking.

[bb-tt]

ran on mustang dyno today
93 oct file
shop owner said add 12% correction raw #s:

319 awhp
369 ftlbs trq

got heat soaked on 2nd and third run and had 12 degrees of retard so dropped about 40 on 2nd and 3rd run


https://i.imgur.com/QsKs9bG.png

[Traptalk]

ran on mustang dyno today
93 oct file
shop owner said add 12% correction raw #s:

319 awhp
369 ftlbs trq

got heat soaked on 2nd and third run and had 12 degrees of retard so dropped about 40 on 2nd and 3rd run


https://i.imgur.com/QsKs9bG.png

Those are apr 100 numbers [drive]

https://i.postimg.cc/qq28C4DR/F81-CC89-A-80-AC-41-AE-8-D79-5073-DFD4-B626.png

Pretty similar shapes of the curves too apr just starts lower rpm

[JLAllroad]

ran on mustang dyno today
93 oct file
shop owner said add 12% correction raw #s:

319 awhp
369 ftlbs trq

got heat soaked on 2nd and third run and had 12 degrees of retard so dropped about 40 on 2nd and 3rd run


https://i.imgur.com/QsKs9bG.png

I know that some of this (your results) doesn’t translate to the street given the greater airflow cooling that the street gives.

That said, your subsequent pulls indicates that you may want to dial back the boost to a level that isn’t super heating the air, if it’s pulling 12 degrees the timing is already there. Once things get a bit cooler you might even find that you can add some.

Of course this is on 93, more octane or cooling by way of meth will help immensely.


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[Traptalk]

I know that some of this (your results) doesn’t translate to the street given the greater airflow cooling that the street gives.

That said, your subsequent pulls indicates that you may want to dial back the boost to a level that isn’t super heating the air, if it’s pulling 12 degrees the timing is already there. Once things get a bit cooler you might even find that you can add some.

Of course this is on 93, more octane or cooling by way of meth will help immensely.


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I saw pics of the dyno room and there is hardly adequate airflow for a dyno room. A single fan and not even directly in front

[EvolutionArmory]

BB needs meth bad. I did 6 pulls at the dyno and my charge pipe was frosty the whole time.


Edit: nice numbers BTW. Usually my first pull is lower than the others because the turbo isn’t up to optimal temp. If you didn’t heat soak you might have had better figures on your second and third pull.

Once your turbo is up to temp the hotter gas flows better if your intercooler isn’t heat soaked.

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[bb-tt]

I know that some of this (your results) doesn’t translate to the street given the greater airflow cooling that the street gives.

That said, your subsequent pulls indicates that you may want to dial back the boost to a level that isn’t super heating the air, if it’s pulling 12 degrees the timing is already there. Once things get a bit cooler you might even find that you can add some.

Of course this is on 93, more octane or cooling by way of meth will help immensely.


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Thanks on street getting very little kr,

[bb-tt]

that was 5 minutes after a 40 minute drive on highway so car was already warmed up.

[JLAllroad]

Thanks on street getting very little kr,

I figured since street tuning and logging is what you’ve been doing.

What is the highest ambient that you’ve run on your dyno file? Just want to ensure you have a viable set up for summer.


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[bb-tt]

just flashed it this morning, have been logging all week trying to get fueling and DI angle right before the dyno, so about 60. Also i have a meth kit just havent got around to installing it yet we wanted to get the 93 file peaked before we started adding meth.

[Mars2]

Wow that is some nice number! Great job.

[bb-tt]

Wow that is some nice number! Great job.

Thanks, but Tyler really deserves the credit I am just fumbleing my way through this.

[EvolutionArmory]

I wouldn’t be thanking him just yet for making you a tune that drops 40 WHP after only one pull.

I’d wait to see if your car makes it through summer without grenading before you start patting him on the back.

Your dyno just proved what some of us have been saying for a while. If you run too much boost you’re just super heating the air and you make less power due to timing pull.




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[Spawne32]

I wouldn’t be thanking him just yet for making you a tune that drops 40 WHP after only one pull.

I’d wait to see if your car makes it through summer without grenading before you start patting him on the back.

Your dyno just proved what some of us have been saying for a while. If you run too much boost you’re just super heating the air and you make less power due to timing pull.




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https://media.giphy.com/media/vbxk7KdIbJuDe/giphy.gif

[EvolutionArmory]

https://media.giphy.com/media/vbxk7KdIbJuDe/giphy.gif

He’s pulling 9 degrees after the first pull. I don’t think there’s anything funny about it.

As much as I like to give you guys a hard time, I don’t want to see you guys blow up your cars.

It’s winter and he’s pulling that much. How much more will it pull when it’s 80 or 90 out?


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[Perry01]

Your dyno just proved what some of us have been saying for a while. If you run too much boost you’re just super heating the air and you make less power due to timing pull.

I tend to agree here. BB has one of the best intercoolers money can buy and he still has bad heat soak. The quest for 2 bar of boost (by having a tuner bypass the ECU’s hard limit or a piggyback) can be dangerous. Plus, adding meth injection as a bandaid solution can be catastrophic. Be carful out there...

[Mars2]

this is on a dyno. very very different than real life.
On dyno with bad fan your intake suck hot air from engine radiator, your IC is working at 10%.......
Did BB have Timing pull on road? I guess not as he would feel it
Will BB get Timing pull in summer. Could be. But as like us, he is a car maniac he will feel it straight away and log then do what is need to be done.

He's got HPT so he could have a tune per season: winter, spring, summer.... 😀

So I don't see any problem their. It' not like he is trying to R&D an OTS tune. It's his custom tune for his car, trying to push the envelop to the max.

[EvolutionArmory]

What do you mean there’s no problem there. His car dropped 40 HP after the first run. I’m sure there’s 100 dyno shops running the same fan. 🤣

It appears he’s exceeding the efficiency of his turbo on 93 octane. Some people will argue that the compressor map says otherwise but let’s be honest, has anyone actually seen a LEGIT compressor map from BW?

I’ve only seen people reference that fake one Doug from FT made with Photoshop.

And let me ask you this since you seem to dyno your car often. Have you EVER dropped 40 WHP on the second pull? I don’t know about your car but the 2 times I’ve taken mine, the first pull is always the worst, not the best.

On my first trip my first pull was 5 WHP lower than the second. On the second trip my first pull was 10 HP lower than my second pull.

My later pulls are always higher than my first. Not worse.


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[Perry01]

this is on a dyno. very very different than real life.
On dyno with bad fan your intake suck hot air from engine radiator, your IC is working at 10%........

I did 3 straight dyno pulls in Hawaii with an ambient temperature of 88°F inside a shop with poor ventilation. Peak boost was ~24 PSI on each run and highest HP was made on pull #2 with pull #3 only 2 peak HP less. A drop of 40 HP on a dyno is not good. Like I said earlier, be careful with your daily driver, good HP and performance can be made on pump gas with less than 25 PSI of boost.

[Spawne32]

this is on a dyno. very very different than real life.
On dyno with bad fan your intake suck hot air from engine radiator, your IC is working at 10%.......
Did BB have Timing pull on road? I guess not as he would feel it
Will BB get Timing pull in summer. Could be. But as like us, he is a car maniac he will feel it straight away and log then do what is need to be done.

He's got HPT so he could have a tune per season: winter, spring, summer.... 😀

So I don't see any problem their. It' not like he is trying to R&D an OTS tune. It's his custom tune for his car, trying to push the envelop to the max.

So I did 4 back to back pulls on this tune file on the street, and my IAT only increased to about 12* above ambient. Naturally if I sit at a traffic light my IAT can get up to 140ish, but that is perfectly normal, soon as the car starts moving the temp drops 50 degrees before I am even out of 3rd gear, and that's with just normal every day driving. The tables that control IAT timing were left stock, so it pulls a lot of timing with even small increases in IAT, out of safety concerns.

[bb-tt]

Harborfreight has a borescope that you can buy, then return for a $15 restocking fee. Don’t ask how I know this. :)

Could stick the camera in the intake side of the turbo to see the wheel. You could also remove the closest O2 sensor and stick the borescope on there to see the smaller side of the wheel.


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i bought a fo one only 3mm wide on amazon for like 15$ works pretty well first one i bought was like 10 bucks returned it immediately was useless can look up which one was good if anyone cares

[EvolutionArmory]

I did 3 straight dyno pulls in Hawaii with an ambient temperature of 88°F inside a shop with poor ventilation. Peak boost was ~24 PSI on each run and highest HP was made on pull #2 with pull #3 only 2 peak HP less. A drop of 40 HP on a dyno is not good. Like I said earlier, be careful with your daily driver, good HP and performance can be made on pump gas with less than 25 PSI of boost.

These guys don’t wanna hear it. If you drop 40 wheel on the next pull with a great intercooler, something is very wrong.

My experience is just like yours. First pull was the worst, second was the best, third was only slightly less than 2nd.

He’s acting like all dynos don’t face the same airflow restraints and limitations. Unless it’s in the middle of a 70 MPH wind tunnel of course.

Blaming the fan. Priceless. Who’s he gonna blame when his motor pops? The tuner or the rods?🤣




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[bb-tt]

Not entirely true

Most tuners aren’t running more than 22-23psi because they can’t bypass the limit

THIS!!!!!!!!

[Mars2]

In Europe their is so many tuner doing EA113 tune with K04-064 blowing at around 1.8Bar (27 psi) peak That I don't have enough finger to count them.
They all get torque around 580-610Nm and some of the car did almost a 100.000 miles like that.
EA888.1 and EA888.2 are not popular so it very hard to find some with upgrade turbo.
On Med17 their is also the 24 psi hard limit. MED9 seams not to have it.

[Perry01]

These guys don’t wanna hear it. If you drop 40 wheel on the next pull with a great intercooler, something is very wrong.

My experience is just like yours. First pull was the worst, second was the best, third was only slightly less than 2nd.

He’s acting like all dynos don’t face the same airflow restraints and limitations. Unless it’s in the middle of a 70 MPH wind tunnel of course.

Blaming the fan. Priceless. Who’s he gonna blame when his motor pops? The tuner or the rods?🤣

BB is a smart guy. I’ve spoken to him and he knows what’s up. Others who read this may not that’s why I’m saying to be careful.

[Traptalk]

In Europe their is so many tuner doing EA113 tune with K04-064 blowing at around 1.8Bar (27 psi) peak That I don't have enough finger to count them.
They all get torque around 580-610Nm and some of the car did almost a 100.000 miles like that.
EA888.1 and EA888.2 are not popular so it very hard to find some with upgrade turbo.
On Med17 their is also the 24 psi hard limit. MED9 seams not to have it.

I’ve been watching Mrc and dvx tuning and their average tte car runs no less than 1.8 bar with out methanol and 2-2.1 with

[EvolutionArmory]

THIS!!!!!!!!

Not this!!!!!!!???&&)?

Do you really think that tuners, who’s whole job is to increase performance, aren’t going above the factory limit because they don’t want to? Or do you think that they were able to do that quite easily but saw no benefit in doing so due to increased EGT’s and combustion temps.

Making 15 more HP doesn’t do you any good if your car blows up.


Well, I hope you just burn out a valve and don’t burn up a piston or worse. I can’t believe that dropping 40 WHP on your second run isn’t worrying the shit out of you.

You know that there’s a limit of how much timing the ECU can pull right?

How much timing advance is your tune asking for? If it’s asking for like 12 and it’s pulling 9, you should be thanking God that your car didn’t blow up on the third pull, not thanking Tyler for making your car dangerous.


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[ReggieNoble]

THIS!!!!!!!!Was all three runs done in the same gear? To me it looks like the first run was 3rd and the other two are in 4th gear.

[Nano909]

I live in SoCal and regularly drive in 110+ degree weather. Drove to Vegas in bumper to bumper traffic at 115-120 degrees and I didn't feel a bit of heatsoak with my ECS intercooler. Dynos in a stupid hot building with no fan in front and real world driving are not the same. BB will be fine.

[EvolutionArmory]

His timing pull after 1 run is like doing a run in Traps car on 100 octane and then jumping in your car to do the next 2 on 91 octane. That’s how much power is being robbed from heat after just one pull on the dyno. And that’s in winter. I’ve never seen a car lose 40 WHP after just one pull.

Maybe that explains it better.


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[Spawne32]

These guys don’t wanna hear it. If you drop 40 wheel on the next pull with a great intercooler, something is very wrong.

My experience is just like yours. First pull was the worst, second was the best, third was only slightly less than 2nd.

He’s acting like all dynos don’t face the same airflow restraints and limitations. Unless it’s in the middle of a 70 MPH wind tunnel of course.

Blaming the fan. Priceless. Who’s he gonna blame when his motor pops? The tuner or the rods?🤣




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https://i.imgur.com/Z9YGFS4.jpg

[Nano909]

https://i.imgur.com/Z9YGFS4.jpg

That guy wouldn't know, he thinks all 2.0T cars are the same 🤣

[Traptalk]

https://i.imgur.com/Z9YGFS4.jpg

Lol that magnet line had me rolling first time I heard it

[bb-tt]

I tend to agree here. BB has one of the best intercoolers money can buy and he still has bad heat soak. The quest for 2 bar of boost (by having a tuner bypass the ECU’s hard limit or a piggyback) can be dangerous. Plus, adding meth injection as a bandaid solution can be catastrophic. Be carful out there...

Thanks for the concern Perry, not getting heat soaked on street only thing we have changed from revisions that were done in 80 degree weather a few weeks ago is di angle and eq a little richer. On the street i dont see heat soak with this ic and i log almost every time i drive now so we capture if there is an anomaly. But i have seen heat soak even with the k03 every time i have been on a dyno.

Here is a log i took on the way home from dyno. Only got one log in before going to the dyno on this revision.

https://i.imgur.com/qee0ddB.png

[Spawne32]

Yeh, again this is merely an airflow issue on the dyno and the intercooler just getting hot. We never see a rise in temp after doing pulls. In fact I did some logging today and after a few pulls sat on the side of the road for 10-15 minutes and the hottest it ever got was 105*f. One of my logs with a 43* ambient temp started at 57* and dropped to 48* by the end of the log. BB's again is going alot smoother than it is on the 09 but even now, just between the two revisions of the tune with DI adjustments, it posted a 30ft lb increase in measured clutch torque compared to the last revision in the same conditions.

https://i.imgur.com/hQwquNT.png

[bb-tt]

this is on a dyno. very very different than real life.
On dyno with bad fan your intake suck hot air from engine radiator, your IC is working at 10%.......
Did BB have Timing pull on road? I guess not as he would feel it
Will BB get Timing pull in summer. Could be. But as like us, he is a car maniac he will feel it straight away and log then do what is need to be done.

He's got HPT so he could have a tune per season: winter, spring, summer.... 😀

So I don't see any problem their. It' not like he is trying to R&D an OTS tune. It's his custom tune for his car, trying to push the envelop to the max.

lol i'd be happy to get down to tune per month. we tweak everytime we see the slightest thing off.

[bb-tt]

Was all three runs done in the same gear? To me it looks like the first run was 3rd and the other two are in 4th gear.

the dyno runs?? if so they were all in 4th.

[EvolutionArmory]

https://i.imgur.com/Z9YGFS4.jpg

Everybody just has a fan at the dyno. Nobody else loses 40 WHP after 1 pull. That’s ridiculous. Maybe a few HP from normal heat soak. Not 40 wheel dude.

If he had no fan at all you might have a point. I doubt he had worse conditions than anyone else on a dyno.

Here’s a 2012 APR V3 car on 93 octane. His 3 pulls are only 4 WHP apart from lowest to highest. Not 40+ Also notice how his first run is the lowest and his car made more power on the 2nd and 3rd runs.
215204


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[bb-tt]

dyno with my k03 funny how that heat soak works went for a 4th run after the tdi ic held up pretty well for the first 3, they also had a much better setup


https://i.imgur.com/KiKhc3E.png

[Traptalk]

i log almost every time i drive

Now that’s a serious pain in the ass.

Just hearing that makes me feel better about going apr and knowing I don’t have to log unless there is an issue now

[Traptalk]

Everybody just has a fan at the dyno. Nobody else loses 40 WHP after 1 pull. That’s ridiculous. Maybe a few HP from normal heat soak. Not 40 wheel dude.

If he had no fan at all you might have a point. I doubt he had worse conditions than anyone else on a dyno.

Here’s a 2012 APR V3 car on 93 octane. His 3 pulls are only 4 WHP apart from lowest to highest. Not 40+ Also notice how his first run is the lowest and his car made more power on the 2nd and 3rd runs.
215204


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Most guys do 3 pulls and average the 3 pulls to get their numbers but for BB doing a average would really hurt his numbers

[EvolutionArmory]

He’s making 91 octane numbers for pull 2 and 3 so yeah, that would hurt him tremendously.

What’s he running at peak boost? 27 psi? It’s just too much.

They’re looking at it the wrong way. They’re blaming the fan for not being able to cool the intercooler instead of blaming the boost for making the intercooler way too hot to begin with.


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[EvolutionArmory]

dyno with my k03 funny how that heat soak works went for a 4th run after the tdi ic held up pretty well for the first 3, they also had a much better setup


https://i.imgur.com/KiKhc3E.png

And your worst pull is only 7 HP lower at peak power from your second worst when you were heat soaked. Not 40 HP.

And your 3 pulls are only a couple/few HP different. There’s heat soak and then there’s what you got going on. Running too much boost is just making the turbo less efficient. Have you thought about running less boost and more timing?


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[Spawne32]

Everybody just has a fan at the dyno. Nobody else loses 40 WHP after 1 pull. That’s ridiculous. Maybe a few HP from normal heat soak. Not 40 wheel dude.

If he had no fan at all you might have a point. I doubt he had worse conditions than anyone else on a dyno.

Here’s a 2012 APR V3 car on 93 octane. His 3 pulls are only 4 WHP apart from lowest to highest. Not 40+ Also notice how his first run is the lowest and his car made more power on the 2nd and 3rd runs.
215204


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You don't seem to know how fans work. There is a measurement called CFM (cubic feet per minute) that is used to determine how much air a fan can actually move across a given area. Some fans can only move a little bit of air, and other fans can move alot of air. Generally speaking for dynos, reputable shops use 2 very large blower fans that move a couple thousand CFM each, not something your grandmother would use in her living room that she picked up from walmart. The idea is to simulate the same amount of airflow over the front of the car as if it were moving at 60mph.

These are difficult concept to understand, and I can see why it's confusing, but heatsoak is normal, especially on a dyno, and especially given the fact he was running with his hood closed. Since the issue that arose on the dyno cannot be replicated on the street, it is clear that the heatsoak was dyno related only.

[EvolutionArmory]

You don't seem to know how fans work. There is a measurement called CFM (cubic feet per minute) that is used to determine how much air a fan can actually move across a given area. Some fans can only move a little bit of air, and other fans can move alot of air. Generally speaking for dynos, reputable shops use 2 very large blower fans that move a couple thousand CFM each, not something your grandmother would use in her living room that she picked up from walmart. The idea is to simulate the same amount of airflow over the front of the car as if it were moving at 60mph.

These are difficult concept to understand, and I can see why it's confusing, but heatsoak is normal, especially on a dyno, and especially given the fact he was running with his hood closed. Since the issue that arose on the dyno cannot be replicated on the street, it is clear that the heatsoak was dyno related only.

Lol!! I didn’t think it was a window fan genius.

It’s probably the type of fan every other dyno shop uses.


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[Spawne32]

Lol!! I didn’t think it was a window fan genius.

It’s probably the type of fan every other dyno shop uses.


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Then let the big boys worry about the tune. Everyone is well aware of what happened with the dyno, and nothing was seen that poses any sort of danger during normal use. He has every safeguard in place that any other tune has, which is exactly why it did what it did.

[bb-tt]

Now that’s a serious pain in the ass.

Just hearing that makes me feel better about going apr and knowing I don’t have to log unless there is an issue now

it is not a pita at all. Plus it is nice to have the log if i feel something weird i can mark it and look at it later. I had no illusions that this was going to be easy but it is fun and i have a car that is getting close to its limits which is what i wanted. if i wanted something fast that i never had to do anything with i would get something new with a gen 3 motor is38 and eqt tune. thats not really fun though people expect those to be quick they dont expect a b8 station wagon to be quick.

[Perry01]

Let’s be objective here, yes, heat soak is real and more prevalent at the dyno and drag strip than on the street. More often than not it’s on forced induction vehicles running high boost. I’ve experienced heat soak on several vehicles (all with aftermarket IC’s) and reducing boost decreased or eliminated it.

A byproduct of pressure is heat and forcing super heated air into your motor does bad things. We all know that cooler denser air makes power. A small turbo (yes, a K04 is a small turbo) working outside its efficiency range is going to get hot. I can understand if these were track cars but do you really want to push the envelope on a daily driver by running 27-28 PSI of boost? Maybe I’m just getting old.

My Q5 does quite well peaking at 24 PSI. APR has proven that 24 PSI of boost can get you mid 12 second 1/4 mile runs with a K04. Has anyone done better running 28 PSI? Please enlighten me on the benefits of running 2 bar of boost on a K04.....

[EvolutionArmory]

This is what I’m talking about. If your turbo spits out 250 degree air at 24 PSI pre intercooler, what temp is it spitting out 27-28 PSI air? 300? (Just spitting out numbers for the sake of discussion)

The intercooler will have a much easier time cooling 250 degree air to 100 degrees or lower than it will 300 degree air.

This is what I meant when I said he’s blaming the fan for not being able to help dissipate the heat soak when he should be blaming the compressed air outlet temp caused by running a turbo at twice the boost it was designed to run.

He’s also doing a street tune in the winter so the air passing through the intercooler on street logs is already much cooler than it will be for 3/4ths of the year. If his tune is pulling 9 degrees now when it’s heat soaked, what will it pull this summer? All 12 degrees his tune is asking for? Maybe. The ECU safeguard can only pull so much timing so you really gotta be careful.

[JLAllroad]

Let’s be objective here, yes, heat soak is real and more prevalent at the dyno and drag strip than on the street. More often than not it’s on forced induction vehicles running high boost. I’ve experienced heat soak on several vehicles (all with aftermarket IC’s) and reducing boost decreased or eliminated it.

A byproduct of pressure is heat and forcing super heated air into your motor does bad things. We all know that cooler denser air makes power. A small turbo (yes, a K04 is a small turbo) working outside its efficiency range is going to get hot. I can understand if these were track cars but do you really want to push the envelope on a daily driver by running 27-28 PSI of boost? Maybe I’m just getting old.

My Q5 does quite well peaking at 24 PSI. APR has proven that 24 PSI of boost can get you mid 12 second 1/4 mile runs with a K04. Has anyone done better running 28 PSI? Please enlighten me on the benefits of running 2 bar of boost on a K04.....

Another way to think about it....

Imagine if this car had been dyno tuned initially and finished up on the street, how would the tune look?

I know we drive on streets not dynos but there is value to both.


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[Traptalk]

How much did the measured ambient temperature rise on the second and 3rd pull?

You think the dyno loading could cause knock retard?

Just thinking of other causes

[Traptalk]

Especially if you’re still using the factory air box that should help with the heat more than a open intake I would think

[bb-tt]

Another way to think about it....

Imagine if this car had been dyno tuned initially and finished up on the street, how would the tune look?

I know we drive on streets not dynos but there is value to both.


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exactly, we tuned for up to 3 degrees knock on the street naturally it is going to be more on the dyno. had i tuned for 3 degrees on the dyno never would see any knock on the street. The whole point of this was to push the envelope and learn what could be done as mars said you learn from mistakes but the ecu has a very robust protection scheme and it sensed something it deemed a hazard on the dyno and did its job and cut power. if only the tensioners and piston /rings were as robust. I have hot lapped 10-15 logs in a row only pulling over to save the file and run again and never get as hot as it did on the dyno and rarely see spike over 3 degrees kr. the nice thing is it appears more options are becoming available for modding our platform but some people are stuck in the past and want to denigrate anyone that tries something different. saw the same stuff with gonzo in the mk4 forums.

[bb-tt]

one of the other guys that went that day uploaded his sheet, think he has s3. hmmmmm

https://i.imgur.com/RPVXSY6.png

[Spawne32]

Let’s be objective here, yes, heat soak is real and more prevalent at the dyno and drag strip than on the street. More often than not it’s on forced induction vehicles running high boost. I’ve experienced heat soak on several vehicles (all with aftermarket IC’s) and reducing boost decreased or eliminated it.

A byproduct of pressure is heat and forcing super heated air into your motor does bad things. We all know that cooler denser air makes power. A small turbo (yes, a K04 is a small turbo) working outside its efficiency range is going to get hot. I can understand if these were track cars but do you really want to push the envelope on a daily driver by running 27-28 PSI of boost? Maybe I’m just getting old.

My Q5 does quite well peaking at 24 PSI. APR has proven that 24 PSI of boost can get you mid 12 second 1/4 mile runs with a K04. Has anyone done better running 28 PSI? Please enlighten me on the benefits of running 2 bar of boost on a K04.....

Are you running straight 93 octane?

[Spawne32]

This is what I’m talking about. If your turbo spits out 250 degree air at 24 PSI pre intercooler, what temp is it spitting out 27-28 PSI air? 300? (Just spitting out numbers for the sake of discussion)

The intercooler will have a much easier time cooling 250 degree air to 100 degrees or lower than it will 300 degree air.

This is what I meant when I said he’s blaming the fan for not being able to help dissipate the heat soak when he should be blaming the compressed air outlet temp caused by running a turbo at twice the boost it was designed to run.

He’s also doing a street tune in the winter so the air passing through the intercooler on street logs is already much cooler than it will be for 3/4ths of the year. If his tune is pulling 9 degrees now when it’s heat soaked, what will it pull this summer? All 12 degrees his tune is asking for? Maybe. The ECU safeguard can only pull so much timing so you really gotta be careful.

This is just you being you and not able to accept anything good on this forum without trying to destroy it, that's all. If the air coming out of the turbo is 300*f as you claim in your "estimate" then based on the logs I took today, my intercooler would have an efficiency of 98%. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and use some of the logs from over the summer/fall months, still looking at an efficiency rating of 92%. So what's the complaint? You just want to come on here bitching just because, is that it? These are custom tunes, and we are not doing this to be "safe" like the OTS tunes, and clearly the IE tune. We are pushing these cars to the absolute limit, that's the point.

You did this with the ebay turbo. A complete rejection of anything new and interesting that had a full disclaimer of being experimental. Just hated it from the very start, and I don't understand it. The progress that has been made on this new tuning platform has been incredible over these past few months, and we couldn't have done it without the time and resources bb has put into it. Sitting here acting like you know a better way to tune this car using some loosely explained theories you found on the internet is not helpful in adding to this discussion. You should be asking questions, not trying to act like the way you think it should be done is the right way. In the racing world, people run turbo's until they GLOW during the day, and if that make's you uncomfortable, we can point you back to the B7 forum.

[Mars2]

it is not a pita at all. Plus it is nice to have the log if i feel something weird i can mark it and look at it later. I had no illusions that this was going to be easy but it is fun and i have a car that is getting close to its limits which is what i wanted. if i wanted something fast that i never had to do anything with i would get something new with a gen 3 motor is38 and eqt tune. thats not really fun though people expect those to be quick they dont expect a b8 station wagon to be quick.

+1000
I'm on same boat.
It's even more true for me as their is almost no part OTS for my van so I have to do most custom or build by myself

- Custom hybrid turbo. i set what I want with Turbozentrum
- custom down pipe. Lucky for me DTH has same van as me for delivery so they could build one down pipe on their van in Germany and then send it to me.
- custom tune
- home made lpfp bracket
- home made 5th injector carrier
- home made tune for 5th injector
- home made intake
- home made turbo to IC pipe
.......

lot of work many moment of doubt but it's so much fun and rewarding when it work.

[JLAllroad]

This is just you being you and not able to accept anything good on this forum without trying to destroy it, that's all. If the air coming out of the turbo is 300*f as you claim in your "estimate" then based on the logs I took today, my intercooler would have an efficiency of 98%. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and use some of the logs from over the summer/fall months, still looking at an efficiency rating of 92%. So what's the complaint? You just want to come on here bitching just because, is that it? These are custom tunes, and we are not doing this to be "safe" like the OTS tunes, and clearly the IE tune. We are pushing these cars to the absolute limit, that's the point.

You did this with the ebay turbo. A complete rejection of anything new and interesting that had a full disclaimer of being experimental. Just hated it from the very start, and I don't understand it. The progress that has been made on this new tuning platform has been incredible over these past few months, and we couldn't have done it without the time and resources bb has put into it. Sitting here acting like you know a better way to tune this car using some loosely explained theories you found on the internet is not helpful in adding to this discussion. You should be asking questions, not trying to act like the way you think it should be done is the right way. In the racing world, people run turbo's until they GLOW during the day, and if that make's you uncomfortable, we can point you back to the B7 forum.

Unfortunately he acts the same there.

Blew me up for asking him to add some transparency to his advice in the interest of full disclosure, at one point he brought up B5 or 6 N75 (not that he hasn’t neutered his enough between high crack and MBC) next thing you know he will rip out the fuel injection for a carburetor just to be able to say his tune is better.

I was diplomatic and even complimentary, but no.

I can appreciate the responses that I have received by most, in this thread or the other, even if I have been critical, in the interest of protection or progression.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14404789
215266

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[Mars2]

Funny this story of 28 psi. It's like a remake of what I have see on RS2

Their was exactly the same talk 20 year ago on S2/RS2 forum when Mihnea (now MRC) came with the first tune pushing 30psi peak and getting 620 Nm. When MTM and all the other big name where pushing max 23 - 24 psi
RS2 KKK 7200 is about same flow as K04-064.
many were bashing him.
A few year later 30 psi for RS2 turbo became the NORMAL.

Why big boost at midrange? Because high torque is addictive!!! Did you ever drive those remap A4 3.0TDI that make 800Nm?
So with this 28 psi you get this addictive torque on daily driving and when you need it you can rev it above 5000rpm to get the high HP.
For me it's like a win win.

PS: when I increase from 24 to 28 psi my IAT stayed about same and I gain lot of MAF. That proof to me that I'm still in the efficiency of the turbo.
I also had big gain in HP on Dyno that double proof it. At 3000rpm I gained 35 CHP and at 4000rpm I gained 40CHP
most of it is from the increase of boost as intake and downpipe give mostly gain at higher rpm. My MAF did almost not increase at mid rpm when I upgraded down pipe and intake.

[EvolutionArmory]

Unfortunately he acts the same there.

Blew me up for asking him to add some transparency to his advice in the interest of full disclosure, at one point he brought up B5 or 6 N75 (not that he hasn’t neutered his enough between high crack and MBC) next thing you know he will rip out the fuel injection for a carburetor just to be able to say his tune is better.

I was diplomatic and even complimentary, but no.

I can appreciate the responses that I have received by most, in this thread or the other, even if I have been critical, in the interest of protection or progression.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14404789
215266

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Because even now you don’t quite understand how my system works even after explaining it to you you. The fact that you just called my set up neutered when it makes more power than a lot of cars in the B7 section says that you don’t understand even now.

And I asked you what transparency needs to be shown about recommending an off the shelf tune that out performs all the others. It would be the same as anyone here recommending APR because it just gets results. 🤣 GIAC is the B7 equivalent of APR’s B8 tune. It just works right. And you said I need to be transparent when I’m running the same tune they sell to everyone. So I ask you again, what do I need to be transparent about?


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[EvolutionArmory]

one of the other guys that went that day uploaded his sheet, think he has s3. hmmmmm

https://i.imgur.com/RPVXSY6.png

This does actually make me feel better about your car. He was able to get 2 pulls in before he heat soaked though. You were heat soaked after the first.

At between 22-24 PSI you may have been able to do 2 or maybe even all 3 runs with cool down time in between.






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[A4x]

Of the 4 nuts that connect the cat to the exhaust manifold, two bolts are easy to access, one on the upper inside is more challenging but can be done, and the lower inside is done all by feel. I don't think there is any angle that it can be seen from. To slip the cat all the way off the studs and create enough wiggle room to get your hand on the wheel, I think removing the support bolt/spring will be necessary. I've only ever removed it from underneath the car but good to know it can be done from the top too.

How much wiggle room am I going to have with the complete exhaust system if I take off the 4 cat to turbo nuts and the transmission spring nut? I assume the O2 sensor wiring harness will have enough slack to push the exhaust back, but will all the hangers underneath the vehicle give me a few inches to push the cat rearward and inspect the turbo shaft play?

[Traptalk]

How much wiggle room am I going to have with the complete exhaust system if I take off the 4 cat to turbo nuts and the transmission spring nut? I assume the O2 sensor wiring harness will have enough slack to push the exhaust back, but will all the hangers underneath the vehicle give me a few inches to push the cat rearward and inspect the turbo shaft play?

With the 4 bolts removed and the spring bolt out you’ll be able to completely take it off of the studs and pull to the side

I know when I did my turbo swap, I seemed to have less wiggle room than others who don’t have a full exhaust just a downpipe. Those guys didn’t even need to remove that spring bolt to get enough wiggle where I found I had too. I’ll see if I can find a picture for you

[Iceman502]

How much wiggle room am I going to have with the complete exhaust system if I take off the 4 cat to turbo nuts and the transmission spring nut? I assume the O2 sensor wiring harness will have enough slack to push the exhaust back, but will all the hangers underneath the vehicle give me a few inches to push the cat rearward and inspect the turbo shaft play?

In my case with the IE HFC and DP, I also had to loosen the exhaust clamp connecting those two parts. That gave me enough room to slide the HFC back off the studs and out of the way enough to pull the turbo.

The O2 sensors will be fine if I remember correctly, I may have removed the pre cat sensor just as a precaution. I'd recommend putting anti seize on anything you take off or loosen!

[schwiz23]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210112/c5d2926ce86d5574fdd49323ed56e0c4.jpg

I used a couple zip ties in the O2 sensor bung, down to the bracket where the spring screw is to help hold the downpipe back in order to get the turbo on straight.

Had enough room to stick my hand in there and spin the wheel and check WG for looseness.

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[A4x]

Cool, thanks guys. I'm going to try this on the weekend.

I'm chasing white exhaust smoke clouds, only when engine is fully warm, only upon re-acceleration after a long downhill coast or braking event. Also can get big clouds at gear shifts on a subsequent hard acceleration. IMHO, turbo seals/bearings are suspect. After that it becomes PCV, or worst case piston rings. Going to inspect both the intake and the exhaust side of the turbo.

It's hard to decipher what would be considered an abnormal amount of oil in the intake plumbing, since there always has been some in there even when stock.

110k miles, only had stage 1 oil consumption complete. Car runs great otherwise.

[Traptalk]

Not the best pic but gives you an idea. This was with the spring bolt still installed.

https://i.postimg.cc/g02dKT0D/4-D1-E96-A3-B040-442-C-822-C-BD0-F910815-F0.png

One thing I did during the turbo swap was make a chain of zip ties and thread it thru one of the downpipe stud holes and then around the strut tower brace I have. This helped hold it out of the way.

Might want to get new studs, nuts and gasket tho.

Probably be easier with the studs out

[Spawne32]

How much wiggle room am I going to have with the complete exhaust system if I take off the 4 cat to turbo nuts and the transmission spring nut? I assume the O2 sensor wiring harness will have enough slack to push the exhaust back, but will all the hangers underneath the vehicle give me a few inches to push the cat rearward and inspect the turbo shaft play?

High strength steel bolts. [;)]

https://i.imgur.com/KrAbmvk.jpg

[Iceman502]

High strength steel bolts. [;)]

I mean I guess Audi uses studs so you don't risk damaging the threads that are cut into the casting through repeated removal??? They are a pain though, I think you went the better route with bolts.

[Spawne32]

I mean I guess Audi uses studs so you don't risk damaging the threads that are cut into the casting through repeated removal??? They are a pain though, I think you went the better route with bolts.

I think it has more to do with clamping force. The studs don't stay in the turbo once the nuts start to rust, they wind up just pulling the stud out with it. Which is what all 4 of mine did, along with all of my head studs. lol

[Iceman502]

I think it has more to do with clamping force. The studs don't stay in the turbo once the nuts start to rust, they wind up just pulling the stud out with it. Which is what all 4 of mine did, along with all of my head studs. lol

Well you bring up another good point, why copper nuts vs. something that could resist corrosion better? Lots of alloys can handle the heat

[A4x]

I think it has more to do with clamping force. The studs don't stay in the turbo once the nuts start to rust, they wind up just pulling the stud out with it. Which is what all 4 of mine did, along with all of my head studs. lol

So would I expect the studs to spin out together with the nut? I do plan to spray them down with deep creep multiple times, a few days before I try to take them off.

[Iceman502]

So would I expect the studs to spin out together with the nut? I do plan to spray them down with deep creep multiple times, a few days before I try to take them off.

How long has your K04 been on? It's kinda time dependent with how many times the nuts have been heat cycled and corrosion exposure. Since you already had the stock turbo removed, as long as the shop used some anti seize the nuts should pop right off leaving studs intact.

[A4x]

How long has your K04 been on? It's kinda time dependent with how many times the nuts have been heat cycled and corrosion exposure. Since you already had the stock turbo removed, as long as the shop used some anti seize the nuts should pop right off leaving studs intact.

Turbo has been on 3.5 years, 40k miles. It might be OK.

However I am skeptical of the shop that did the install. They removed a nearly new stock turbo, only 8 months after the dealership installed it (wastegate warranty). They broke one of the studs on the stock turbo and it was stuck in there. The guy I sold it too wasn't happy.

[Iceman502]

Turbo has been on 3.5 years, 40k miles. It might be OK.

However I am skeptical of the shop that did the install. They removed a nearly new stock turbo, only 8 months after the dealership installed it (wastegate warranty). They broke one of the studs on the stock turbo and it was stuck in there. The guy I sold it too wasn't happy.

For the mileage, you should be okay. My turbo was replaced under warranty at 37k and I didn't install the IE HFC until 79,500 and only one nut was relatively 'stuck'. A cheater bar on the ratchet solved that and none of the studs came out.

As for the shop... let's hope they didn't find a way to put an impact wrench on it.

[Grouch]

I swapped out my Eurocode to IE about a month ago. The nuts were stuck on all four studs. Ended up putting loctite on it and just putting back in instead of using the nuts IE provided.

[Iceman502]

Data dump for K04 eBay Turbo/IE users:

Over Christmas I installed the B12 suspension kit, new upper control arms, and pulled the turbo again to adjust wastegate cracking pressure. Using my N75 regression model from previous logs, I was shooting for about 8.25 psi, and thankfully, was barely able to get there. By measuring all components of the wastegate system, I was also able to produce theoretical values of back pressure that are very much within the realm of possibility, on the order of 20-30 psi.

With the original actuator that comes with the eBay F23L turbo, I do not think crack pressure could go much higher. Even though there are more threads on the actuator itself, you quickly become limited by the canister’s range of internal travel. With an 8.25 psi crack pressure, I could achieve a max 7mm of rod travel, allowing the flapper to open ~3/8”. If I set crack pressure higher, rod travel is significantly reduced, which quickly reduces flapper range of motion. From the information I could find, 3/8” flapper motion seemed to be a healthy margin, but going lower could pose safety concerns from overboost.

Because of the design of the canister, I don’t think there is a way to effectively increase crack pressure beyond 8.25psi with, and only with, the original actuator. I think it would be helpful to compare the eBay wastegate canister to a real K04 canister, and see what kind of rod travel you can get at different crack pressures. Did anyone ever do that? I know the Forge’s have been thoroughly inspected by Trap since his configuration ended up being a bracket and actuator from two different models.

After sharing all this information with their team, and seeing everything functioning well together, we worked through three revisions. DA the other night was -361ft and the ECU is capping boost because max load is being reached. Were it summer time, I’d be hitting max boost in the midrange and probably slightly lower timing advance. Attached is a log with my current configuration on 93 octane.

Log: https://datazap.me/u/iceman502/11321-log-1?log=0&data=18

I have gotten great feedback from many users here, and Carter at IE has provided top notch support with answering my many questions. For that, thank you to everyone - I feel like my car is driving very, very well, and the last tweaks I want to make are mostly minor. The big one will be investing in HPT for transmission tuning purposes. Ideally, I’m going to squeeze in dyno time to get real power figures, however my workload is ramping up this spring so that timeframe is TBD.

https://i.imgur.com/oTRZ09E.png

https://i.imgur.com/b4I5AWk.png

https://i.imgur.com/leetgZW.png

[SNice]

When I pulled my turbo for wastegate adjustment, all 4 studs came out with the nuts. I originally coated and installed the studs and the nuts with copper antiseize on initial installation. When I reinstalled the turbo, I just treated them like bolts. So far no issues. I definitely don’t want to deal with stuck bolts. I had to drill out all the studs on the dp/cat connection due to snapped bolts. Destroyed the mesh on the flex joint with my drill bit - Smh. I was hoping the copper antiseize would prevent any future seized elements.

Had my best run so far today! I’m still slow but a little bit faster. Lol. My logs are looking good for the most part. No more big throttle cuts. Occasionally my p3 gauge with register a 29-30boost spike. Most of the time I’m maxing out around 24-26 psi. Not sure if I need to be worried about that as it is only when really mashing on the pedal. Need to do a log to try and capture it.

215885




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[Traptalk]

Data dump for K04 eBay Turbo/IE users:

Over Christmas I installed the B12 suspension kit, new upper control arms, and pulled the turbo again to adjust wastegate cracking pressure. Using my N75 regression model from previous logs, I was shooting for about 8.25 psi, and thankfully, was barely able to get there. By measuring all components of the wastegate system, I was also able to produce theoretical values of back pressure that are very much within the realm of possibility, on the order of 20-30 psi.

With the original actuator that comes with the eBay F23L turbo, I do not think crack pressure could go much higher. Even though there are more threads on the actuator itself, you quickly become limited by the canister’s range of internal travel. With an 8.25 psi crack pressure, I could achieve a max 7mm of rod travel, allowing the flapper to open ~3/8”. If I set crack pressure higher, rod travel is significantly reduced, which quickly reduces flapper range of motion. From the information I could find, 3/8” flapper motion seemed to be a healthy margin, but going lower could pose safety concerns from overboost.

Because of the design of the canister, I don’t think there is a way to effectively increase crack pressure beyond 8.25psi with, and only with, the original actuator. I think it would be helpful to compare the eBay wastegate canister to a real K04 canister, and see what kind of rod travel you can get at different crack pressures. Did anyone ever do that? I know the Forge’s have been thoroughly inspected by Trap since his configuration ended up being a bracket and actuator from two different models.

After sharing all this information with their team, and seeing everything functioning well together, we worked through three revisions. DA the other night was -361ft and the ECU is capping boost because max load is being reached. Were it summer time, I’d be hitting max boost in the midrange and probably slightly lower timing advance. Attached is a log with my current configuration on 93 octane.

Log: https://datazap.me/u/iceman502/11321-log-1?log=0&data=18

I have gotten great feedback from many users here, and Carter at IE has provided top notch support with answering my many questions. For that, thank you to everyone - I feel like my car is driving very, very well, and the last tweaks I want to make are mostly minor. The big one will be investing in HPT for transmission tuning purposes. Ideally, I’m going to squeeze in dyno time to get real power figures, however my workload is ramping up this spring so that timeframe is TBD.

https://i.imgur.com/oTRZ09E.png

https://i.imgur.com/b4I5AWk.png

https://i.imgur.com/leetgZW.png

Wow wow wow

All that work and you still technically underboost?!?!?

It does seem to be holding boost a lot nicer for you with about 20psi at redline which iirc is nice bump from before

Wgdc map looks pretty clean as well.

Do you have before and after dragys ?

How’s 7mm of rod travel feel on the street part throttle?

When I set up my wastegate I was worried it didn’t open a full 90*. Mine was more like 45* angle

Edit: read this at work and went straight to the graphs didn’t read the bit about cold weather capping off

[EvolutionArmory]

Wow wow wow

All that work and you still technically underboost?!?!?

It does seem to be holding boost a lot nicer for you with about 20psi at redline which iirc is nice bump from before

Wgdc map looks pretty clean as well.

Do you have before and after dragys ?

How’s 7mm of rod travel feel on the street part throttle?

When I set up my wastegate I was worried it didn’t open a full 90*. Mine was more like 45* angle

Edit: read this at work and went straight to the graphs didn’t read the bit about cold weather capping off

But these OTS IE tune users never really hit requested in the summer either and still had pretty slow spool so how does one explain that?


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[Traptalk]

But these OTS IE tune users never really hit requested in the summer either and still had pretty slow spool so how does one explain that?


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297 g/s is strong. Sure the da helped some there

Spool does look a bit slow - doesn’t hit 20psi till like 3500rpm

[Iceman502]

Wow wow wow

All that work and you still technically underboost?!?!?

It does seem to be holding boost a lot nicer for you with about 20psi at redline which iirc is nice bump from before

Wgdc map looks pretty clean as well.

Do you have before and after dragys ?

How’s 7mm of rod travel feel on the street part throttle?

When I set up my wastegate I was worried it didn’t open a full 90*. Mine was more like 45* angle

Edit: read this at work and went straight to the graphs didn’t read the bit about cold weather capping off


For starters - I will continue to gather new longs and compare as things settle. I took that one without even a mile of adaption so there's certainly going to be controller values that start to settle. Repeatability to include during the summer will tell all. Also yes I am holding higher boost at redline by ~2 psi if I remember correctly.

IE's tune is load based, so I'm not hitting max boost because the engine doesn't need to too sustain its 250% max load value, which 250 was hit as early as 2600 rpm. The negative DA is certainly helping things right now. I admit the spool seems a hair slow, which could be my foot on the throttle or, a shortcoming. I hope it's not the latter, and will also speed up my roll on throttle next time.

Sadly no draggy's at all yet, I'm going to reach out to the Audi Carolinas FB group and see if someone has one near RDU.

Thus far, 7mm of rod travel has been working just fine, with very little to no "yo-yo" taking place. I have to be in the wrong gear with too much throttle to make that happen. I should have tried to take a picture, but I think 45° at full open would be generous lol with the stock actuator, I don't think I could go a turn further. I wish I wasn't maxing the n75, but then again, I'm maxing it at 6300 rpm. To increase crack pressure further, I'd have to buy a new one, and I'd rather apply those funds elsewhere since the car is a blast to drive as is.

I'm hoping that I can produce draggy and dyno numbers to further substantiate what the logs are indicating.

[Iceman502]

To further tie some of this together, this is a log from a previous revision where the DA wasn't as favorable, and you can see how closely calculated load follows the boost profile. Here, peak boost was again hit at just shy of 3600 rpm, where the tune itself didn't call for peak boost until 3400. Maybe I'm rolling onto the throttle too softly?

https://i.imgur.com/TvnNzho.png

[Traptalk]

To further tie some of this together, this is a log from a previous revision where the DA wasn't as favorable, and you can see how closely calculated load follows the boost profile. Here, peak boost was again hit at just shy of 3600 rpm, where the tune itself didn't call for peak boost until 3400. Maybe I'm rolling onto the throttle too softly?

https://i.imgur.com/TvnNzho.png


Give it some adaptation time and let’s see how things settle for you

[EvolutionArmory]

You need to get IE to up duty cycle at spool. That’s why your K04 is spooling like a much bigger turbo.

You’re only starting at 60%. Or actually, maybe if you start logging at an earlier RPM like at 1500 that will give you more time to roll into full throttle and your N75 graph might look a little more normal?

I’m very interested in seeing what your torque curve looks like with this tune.


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[didyouseethat83]

Hello, I made a thread in regards to the knocking issues I’m having on my k04 set up. I have a 14’ a4 cpmb with about 26k on the engine. Turbo and fmic are brand new. I’m on IE K04 93 crackle tune. Using their logging tool, they’re telling me I’m showing knock. I’m not sure what the issue could be. I did their recommended spark plugs and it made it a bit more responsive, but I still notice an occasional hiccup in the power band in certain pulls. Here’s a link to the other days logs. Three logs. 4th gear, 3rd, and 2nd. https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0Y6g7nMcJFsRyhM0scftcDcig#Datalog-01-13-2021_04-49

Any suggestions would be great. I just put some techron and about 9 gallons of Shell 93 (“best quality fuel near me”) I’ll be driving it tomorrow more to let it mix. Thanks for any input.



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[Traptalk]

Hello, I made a thread in regards to the knocking issues I’m having on my k04 set up. I have a 14’ a4 cpmb with about 26k on the engine. Turbo and fmic are brand new. I’m on IE K04 93 crackle tune. Using their logging tool, they’re telling me I’m showing knock. I’m not sure what the issue could be. I did their recommended spark plugs and it made it a bit more responsive, but I still notice an occasional hiccup in the power band in certain pulls. Here’s a link to the other days logs. Three logs. 4th gear, 3rd, and 2nd. https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0Y6g7nMcJFsRyhM0scftcDcig#Datalog-01-13-2021_04-49

Any suggestions would be great. I just put some techron and about 9 gallons of Shell 93 (“best quality fuel near me”) I’ll be driving it tomorrow more to let it mix. Thanks for any input.



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Can you upload the .csv file to datazap and then share the log here

Datazap is free but have to make an account.

It makes really nice visual representations and graphs from the spreadsheet file for us which saves some time for analysis