It's that time again, Liqui-Moly 0W-40 Synthoil Fully Synthetic Vs. Motul 5W-40 Xcess [Archive]

arjun90

01-11-2020, 10:37 AM

Curious to know, any reason why you didn't opt for Liqui Moly's 0W-40 (seems to be a higher Group than their 5W-40 as well)? Its going to be a cold winter here in the Northeast, at least that's what NOAA says, [>_<]

Honestly mine's never really used any appreciable oil. I used Motul specific VW 505.00 5w40 and went through maybe 1/3 to 1/2 a quart between changes at 7500 miles or so.

Tried liquimoly this last time, leicht lauf high tech 5w40, and have burned almost 0 in over 5k miles. I'll probably stick with that, plus it is from FCP so free oil changes FTW.

djn876

01-11-2020, 11:04 AM

Other than 5w-40 is what it had from the factory not really. Its been working well and burning nothing for me so far, so just never really saw a reason to change it.

I wouldn't mind an actually colder winter, then maybe the yard won't be mud pit and my winter tires wouldn't feel like marshmallows lol. Writing this as it's currently 60+ outside...

I need to try out these new winter tires in some snow!

arjun90

01-11-2020, 11:07 AM

Some users are saying its a Group III oil and not IV. At the end of the day, is it really going to make a difference? Have you tried their Mos2 additive? I'm not all that fond of adding additives to the engine, [>_<]

Other than 5w-40 is what it had from the factory not really. Its been working well and burning nothing for me so far, so just never really saw a reason to change it.

I wouldn't mind an actually colder winter, then maybe the yard won't be mud pit and my winter tires wouldn't feel like marshmallows lol. Writing this as it's currently 60+ outside...

I need to try out these new winter tires in some snow!

MSq5

01-11-2020, 11:45 AM

Mine has not been thirsty for oil. Not even with higher stage tunes. It never really moves on the dipstick (yes I bought one and highly recommend it) between changes. Bought the car new and have just passed 57,000 miles. I’ve been using pretty much exclusively Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0-40w and Mann filters.

No additives, no gimmicks, no obsessing over whether it is true Group IV or whether that matters.

S4'ed

01-11-2020, 01:41 PM

I have two 3.0Ts...none use much oil, maybe 0.25 quart every 3000miles, I always use Mobil-1 0W-40.
One is stage-1 tuned (76,000 miles), the other is stock (23,000 miles).

arjun90

01-11-2020, 07:29 PM

Nice, looks like I'll stick with the 0W-40 for the Winter, and in May "may" switch over to Motul's 5W-40 if the need desires. I don't like swapping oils much, lol

djn876

01-12-2020, 03:42 AM

Why bother switching? Just wondering as 0w40 temp range is -40c to +40c, 5w40 is -35c to +40c. Seems like a waste to change seasonally. Performance should be more or less the same.

arjun90

01-12-2020, 06:31 AM

I may be a little overly sensitive over what I come across different review sites, but I read that the 0W-40 is good at lower temperatures as it offers rapid delivery to crucial areas (especially the timing chain area) whereas at higher temperatures the 0W-40 ends up protecting less and wearing off more of the engine; something to do with the chemical and physical properties of the formula used to make that oil. I know it sounds odd, but even for an older car like my A6 wagon, it wasn't doing well with the "cheaply priced" oil (burning oil more frequently in-spite of replacing PCV valve a few times through warranty). Paying close to $100 for a better grade oil in my experience has given me much better results (rarely burning any oil at all irrespective of driving habits). I know this sounds a bit arbitrary, but this is the perception I got after going through multiple oil brands and types (Mobil 1, Castrol, Motul, and Liqui-Moly, 0W-40 and 5W-40 over the years) on my A6. I know that driving habits also play a role, but oil consumption is typically worse on my wagon when being in stop-and-go traffic. Whereas, highway driving without much traffic yields better results.

This will be my first oil change for the Q5, trying to do it right this time around rather than experimenting with various oil brands (when at end of the day, "they should" meet or exceed OE-specifications).

Why bother switching? Just wondering as 0w40 temp range is -40c to +40c, 5w40 is -35c to +40c. Seems like a waste to change seasonally. Performance should be more or less the same.

S4'ed

01-12-2020, 12:01 PM

A 0W-40 and a 5W-40 provide the same viscosity at high temperatures.

arjun90

01-12-2020, 03:53 PM

Thanks for confirming that, it may be that critics were just speculating without reason; same viscosity is essentially same thickness at high temperatures, but the 0W-40 provides the added benefit of quickly delivery to critical components at low temperatures.

A 0W-40 and a 5W-40 provide the same viscosity at high temperatures.

choppstixxx

01-13-2020, 06:19 AM

I've always used Liqui Moly/Mann filters in both my A4 and now the Q5. In the two oil changes I have done I haven't noticed any huge loss in oil, it always keeps my car running smooth and is to the same standard as OEM Castrol. My biggest gripe is how much oil it takes to feed these beasts, at almost 7qts,
Best thing I did buy was a twist on locking oil funnel, with how the fill hole sits this is a must for DIY oil changes.

joe916

01-13-2020, 06:44 AM

My Q5 is all stock using the OE Castrol 5W-40 oil. We all know the 3.0T motor is thirsty for oil. Has anyone used Liqui-Moly 0W-40 Synthoil Fully Synthetic or Motul 5W-40 Xcess Fully Synthetic on their Q5 and can share their feedback? Are you using any of these oils on the Q5 3.0T?

I've used Motul on my A6 3.0L and its done relatively, adding a quart every 3,000 miles or so, but recently moved over to Liqui-Moly, and the engine is remarkably quiet. Wonder if can experience the same on a Q5 3.0T.

Pennzoil platinum ultra 0w40 with mann oem filter i could tell right away how quit start ups are and timing chain start up noise is barely noticeable and a lot quieter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWuKvnCq1js

pattyt

01-13-2020, 07:27 AM

I have been using Motul Xcess 5w-40 for the life of the car. I have little to no oil consumption between oil changes at an approx 6,000 mile interval. However, due to the cold climate (Canada) I have been considering dropping to a 0w-40 for the winter months. I am hesitant to change oils considering the Motul has been doing very well. However, I do hear the timing chain start up noise from time to time during cold starts.

joe916

01-13-2020, 07:39 AM

MSq5

01-14-2020, 08:00 AM

[QUOTE=pattyt;13980311]I have been using Motul Xcess 5w-40 for the life of the car. I have little to no oil consumption between oil changes at an approx 6,000 mile interval. However, due to the cold climate (Canada) I have been considering dropping to a 0w-40 for the winter months. I am hesitant to change oils considering the Motul has been doing very well. However, I do hear the timing chain start up noise from time to time during cold starts.[/QUOT
give Pennzoil platinum ultra 0w40 a try i noticed the timing chain noise was minimal compared to the other oil i used

Platinum Ultra is not VW 502/503/505 approved. Platinum Euro is. Don’t know if that matters, or if there is much difference. Might matter for a car still in warranty. Joe, the 0w40 is a racing formula, is it not? Most racing oils are intended to reduce friction to an absolute minimum and add a lot of zinc to increase shear protection for “loose” internal clearances (gain a few ponies) but are intended to be changed frequently, as they often lack robust detergent and anti-corrosion additives. Engines running these oils have a lot more internal carbon and sludge build up if the oil is not changed very frequently.

Good for the track, maybe not for a daily driven street car in stop and go traffic?

joe916

01-14-2020, 08:22 AM

[QUOTE=joe916;13980327]

Platinum Ultra is not VW 502/503/505 approved. Platinum Euro is. Don’t know if that matters, or if there is much difference. Might matter for a car still in warranty. Joe, the 0w40 is a racing formula, is it not? Most racing oils are intended to reduce friction to an absolute minimum (gain a few ponies) but are intended to be changed frequently, as they often lack robust detergent and anti-corrosion additives.

Good for the track, maybe not for a daily driven street car in stop and go traffic?

its not under warranty did you watch the video? Pennzoil ultra platinum has some of the best detergent and additives on the market motul and liquid moly dont even come close to the ppm and total detergents and tbn even super tech from walmart is ranked higher and i stick to changing my oil every 5,000 miles

q5 dave

01-14-2020, 12:08 PM

MSq5

01-14-2020, 01:55 PM

[QUOTE=MSq5;13982054]

its not under warranty did you watch the video? Pennzoil ultra platinum has some of the best detergent and additives on the market motul and liquid moly dont even come close to the ppm and total detergents and tbn even super tech from walmart is ranked higher and i stick to changing my oil every 5,000 miles

Ok, as long as that is not the one designated as racing oil. It is a much different formulation and definitely lacks the additive package. If you are going to run the Platinum street version, why not go with the Platinum Euro formula? It does have VW certification and the correct additive package.

joe916

01-14-2020, 09:48 PM

Here are the test results I'm confused what your point is?158655158656158657

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MSq5

01-15-2020, 06:24 AM

Here are the test results I'm confused what your point is?158655158656158657

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The test compared dissimilar oils. For example, it did not test Mobile 1 FS, Euro Formula, the one certified as VW 502/503/505 compliant.

It also did not test your 0w40 formulation.

That test does show that Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 5w30 did perform well against certain other specific 5w30 oils. Without looking at the mfg specs on those oils it’s hard to make valid comparisons to see if they are apples to apples.

I would think using any VW 502/503/505 approved oil with scheduled oil changes and use of high quality filter will provide excellent protection for as long as one owns the car.

MSq5

01-15-2020, 06:37 AM

I've been using Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 for a while now. Runs great with a smooth quiet start up, both q5 and b5 a4. Not VW 502 approved but plenty of audi/vw enthusiasts use it, tons of threads on az. Don't think shell wanted to pay for the certification.

Shell Rotella 5w40 became the “gold standard” in the Subaru WRX and Mazdaspeed communities and still is for highly modified high boost engines. This is because they run very low AFRs under high boost with direct injection. Those engines blow a lot of particulate matter out the exhausr under full boil. In other words, they benefit from oils with diesel detergent packages. T6 was originally designed for direct injection over the road Diesel engines. I ran it for almost 11 years in my modified ‘08 Mazdaspeed 3.

ILVTRANCE

01-15-2020, 09:35 AM

The test compared dissimilar oils. For example, it did not test Mobile 1 FS, Euro Formula, the one certified as VW 502/503/505 compliant.

It also did not test your 0w40 formulation.

That test does show that Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 5w30 did perform well against certain other specific 5w30 oils. Without looking at the mfg specs on those oils it’s hard to make valid comparisons to see if they are apples to apples.

I would think using any VW 502/503/505 approved oil with scheduled oil changes and use of high quality filter will provide excellent protection for as long as one owns the car.

isn't there a few versions of liquimoli as well? These charts are nice, but I agree with you it is lacking tons of information.

arjun90

01-15-2020, 09:50 AM

joe916

01-15-2020, 11:54 AM

The test compared dissimilar oils. For example, it did not test Mobile 1 FS, Euro Formula, the one certified as VW 502/503/505 compliant.

It also did not test your 0w40 formulation.

That test does show that Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 5w30 did perform well against certain other specific 5w30 oils. Without looking at the mfg specs on those oils it’s hard to make valid comparisons to see if they are apples to apples.

I would think using any VW 502/503/505 approved oil with scheduled oil changes and use of high quality filter will provide excellent protection for as long as one owns the car.

you should check out bobistheoilguy.com reviews on liquid moly and motul its not rated that high of a oil and you do not need any vw 502 approval thats all BS just like you said theres guys running rotella t6 diesel in wrx and mazdaspeed and now your saying the oil test is not accurate and its not apples to apples lol stop being stubborn [:D]

joe916

01-15-2020, 12:51 PM

Based on the consensus, I'll stick with 0W-40 for now; so far the Liqui Moly Synthoil Fully Synthetic is doing extremely well on my A6; anxious to see how good it will be on the Q5, lol

The best way to gauge effectiveness is to do an oil analysis, which I am definitely going to do now on both vehicles

i had pretty bad start up chain rattle when i was running castrol made in germany 0w40 and when i switched to Pennzoil ultra platinum the chain start was super smooth and no rattle

MSq5

01-16-2020, 07:31 AM

you should check out bobistheoilguy.com reviews on liquid moly and motul its not rated that high of a oil and you do not need any vw 502 approval thats all BS just like you said theres guys running rotella t6 diesel in wrx and mazdaspeed and now your saying the oil test is not accurate and its not apples to apples lol stop being stubborn [:D]

Stubborn? Me? Ha. I am not recommending T6 for our engines. I was responding to someone else. There seems to be a reading comprehension issue.

Explain why VW 502/503/505 is BS. Be specific. Facts, not personal opinion. I’m not saying your posted tests are not accurate, either. I’m saying they tested dissimilar oils and did not test or compare any 0w40 oils and did not test the Mobil 1 oil that is certified for our cars.

The tests were done in 2013, seven years ago. Do they even reflect current formulations?

I am not criticizing Pennzoil Platinum Ultra, either, beyond two simple things: it is not VW 502/503/505 rated, and that the test was for 5w30 oils, not 0w40 oils. Different viscosity oils will test differently and adding viscosity index improvers (expanding from 5w30 to 0w40) changes the properties of the oil.

Answer this question: What oil is in the crankcase of a $960,000 McLaren Senna and recommended by McLaren for refills? Not saying a different oil might not do as well. But, that’s an engine you do not want to have an oil-related failure.

Ultimately, the single most important factor in engine oil is wear protection. Assuming the manufacturer’s viscosity recommendations and detergent additive packages are in place, performance ratings should prioritize wear protection.

The absolute best, independent engineer oil testing and rating system, constantly updated is in this engineering blog. Scroll down a good way to find the wear protection ratings.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

joe916

01-16-2020, 08:59 AM

Testing was done may 27 2019 not sure why your saying testing is old and the link you gave me is garbage you need to check out bobistheoilguy.com and research blackstone results on liquid moly and motul

https://www.patreon.com/posts/27168208

Ferrari has been Factory filling with shell lubricants since 1947

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MSq5

01-16-2020, 09:40 AM

That is the Blackstone oil analysis testing. The charts you posted above were from a 2013 test. That included the now discontinued versions of many oils we are currently discussing with new formulations. For instance, the Pennzoil Platinum Ultra tested then was the 5w30 ANSI SM version. It has been replaced by its ANSI SN version, what you are likely running.

The SAE engineer’s oil testing blog is followed by over a half million people, largely from the high performance, racing and engine builder community with a lot of followers who run highly modified engines. He tests every oil the same way on the same equipment. He keeps the data current. He retests when the formulations change on the same oil. He tests different viscosities and often finds significant differences in wear protection in the same oil with different viscosities.

He has no bias, is no one’s fanboy and tests under controlled conditions. No shade tree garage stuff.

If you bother to read it, you will find that the 5w30 current version of your oil was #1 (so much for the “garbage”) but only if a third-party anti-wear additive was included in the testing.

It was #62 otherwise, falling from #20 (ANSI SM) to #62 when reformulated to meet ANSI SN standards.

Reading the labels for reformulation changes really matters. Different formulation changes and different viscosities of the same labeled oil test differently.

For instance, Pennzoil Platinum European tested higher than Ultra (excluding the test where a well-known anti-wear additive was added). Your 0w40 Ultra was not included in either your test data or in the engineer blog, so we really don’t know how it would have done.

FWIW, can you explain factually why VW502/503/505 is BS, as I asked? Can you factually explain why the engineering blog link is garbage? Race teams and engine builders think otherwise.

BTW: McLaren fills the Senna with Mobile 1 FS European Formula 0-40. That oil (without help from additives) ranked #7, and was the highest 0w40 tested.

Lots of biases in these “my oil is best” threads. It’s fun to pin people down for hard facts. Ultimately, get an oil that meets manufacturers specs for your engine and has the highest wear protection rating (above 100,000 psi preferably above 125,000 psi for oil film failure) if you plan to run the car hard. Change oil more frequently and use high quality filters.

joe916

01-16-2020, 09:56 AM

That is the Blackstone oil analysis testing. The charts you posted above were from a 2013 test. That included the now discontinued versions of many oils we are currently discussing with new formulations. For instance, the Pennzoil Platinum Ultra tested then was the 5w30 ANSI SM version. It has been replaced by its ANSI SN version.

The SAE engineer’s oil testing blog is followed by over a half million people, largely from the high performance, racing and engine builder community with a lot of followers who run highly modified engines. He tests every oil the same way on the same equipment. He keeps the data current. He retests when the formulations change on the same oil. He tests different viscosities and often finds significant differences in wear protection in the same oil with different viscosities.

He has no bias, is no one’s fanboy and tests under controlled conditions. So shade tree garage stuff.

If you bother to read it, you will find that the 5w30 current version of your oil was #1 (so much for the “garbage”) but only if a third-party anti-wear additive was included in the testing.

It was #62 otherwise, falling from #20 (ANSI SM) to #62 when reformulated to meet ANSI SN standards. Reading the labels for reformulation changes really matters.

Different formulation changes and different viscosities of the same labeled oil test differently.

For instance, Pennzoil Platinum European tested higher than Ultra (excluding the test where a well-known anti-wear additive was added).

FWIW, can you explain factually why VW502/503/505 is BS, as I asked? Can you factually explain why the engineering blog link is garbage?

BTW: McLaren fills the Senna with Mobile 1 FS European Formula 0-40. That oil (without help from additives) ranked #7, and was the highest 0w40 tested.

were are you getting 2013 from lol? blackstone testing report was done 5/31/2019 did you even watch the youtube video link?

MSq5

01-16-2020, 10:03 AM

were are you getting 2013 from lol? blackstone testing report was done 5/31/2019 did you even watch the youtube video link?

There is clearly some reading comprehension issue here. The charts you posted earlier rating the various oils were from 2013 testing. I was not referring to Blackstone.

Can you answer my questions, sir? Explain factually your BS a garbage conclusions.

If you have criticism of the SAE engineer blog rankings, what is the flaw in his methodology or in his conclusions?

joe916

01-16-2020, 10:08 AM

There is clearly some reading comprehension issue here. The charts you posted earlier rating the various oils were from 2013 testing. I was not referring to Blackstone.

Can you answer my questions, sir? Explain factually your BS a garbage conclusions.

If you have criticism of the SAE engineer blog rankings, what is the flaw in his methodology or in his conclusions?

can you point out please showing that test results are from 2013? and did you watch the video or not? lol

MSq5

01-16-2020, 10:14 AM

can you point out please showing that test results are from 2013? and did you watch the video or not? lol

Never want to answer questions, do you? Yes, I watched the video. He did limited testing on only two oils. Sent everything out to some unknown lab with unknown testing methods, equipment or protocols and simply regurgitated data that may or not reflect real world performance.

Now, you go first by answering my questions, posed first. and I’ll follow. How about that?

I am ready when you are. Tick, tock . . .

joe916

01-16-2020, 11:10 AM

Never want to answer questions, do you? Yes, I watched the video. He did limited testing on only two oils. Sent everything out to some unknown lab with unknown testing methods, equipment or protocols and simply regurgitated data that may or not reflect real world performance.

Now, you go first by answering my questions, posed first. and I’ll follow. How about that?

I am ready when you are. Tick, tock . . .

so blackstone labs is a unknown lab lol ok please do some research on bobistheoilguy.com on blackstone labs since you think its unknown 😂

joe916

01-16-2020, 11:14 AM

Never want to answer questions, do you? Yes, I watched the video. He did limited testing on only two oils. Sent everything out to some unknown lab with unknown testing methods, equipment or protocols and simply regurgitated data that may or not reflect real world performance.

Now, you go first by answering my questions, posed first. and I’ll follow. How about that?

I am ready when you are. Tick, tock . . .All 16 oils were tested not just 2 and please explain were i posted 2013 test results?158782

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MSq5

01-16-2020, 11:38 AM

so blackstone labs is a unknown lab lol ok please do some research on bobistheoilguy.com on blackstone labs since you think its unknown 😂

The guy in the video only tested two oils in that video and did very limited and questionably relevant tests of his own creation. Did you see/hear his reference to “previous” testing for the other comparison oils? Did he say Blackstone did the tests? Who did and how? How do you know the Blackstone testing in a different link is the data used in the video?

That is not the testing referred to in the video. Don’t you realize this?

Total Detergent/Dispersants
Total Anti-Wear Additives

Where did the data come from for these two charts you posted? That is not in the Blackstone reports you posted. Does the sum total of additives, regardless of nature or ratio to each other, translate in making one oil “better” than another?

FWIW the Bob is the Oil Guy crowd didn’t have a very high regard for the Project Farm guys testing assumptions or relevance to real world conditions.

One more time: Answer my questions please. Still waiting. You are avoiding the questions. Answer why VW502/503/505 certifying is BS and why testing by a true Society of Automotive Engineers member using objective, repeatable and consistent methodology and publishing the resulting data is “garbage”.

Then, I intend to identify data source for the video and the date of the testing.

You’ve made bold claims about BS and garbage regarding the value of industry certification standards being BS and criticizing the careful, controlled work of a highly qualified automotive and mechanical engineer as garbage?

Why? Facts. Tick, tock . . .

Silver_Bullet

01-16-2020, 02:38 PM

MSq5

01-16-2020, 04:33 PM

That Mobil 1 looks like a great choice. I wish the engineering guy had more recent tests of the typical oils we are using in the 5W40 and 0W40 range, I like his testing. I imagine since he prefers the 5W30 oils he's not going out of his way to test the choices typically used here.

I think you are right. He has a very well designed test. All oil is going to protect well when it is in liquid form (exception I will note in a moment). It’s when it’s in the ultra thin stage under pressure that it fails. That’s when it is squeezed, like during the power stroke of an engine pressing hard on the rod and main bearings, pressing the piston rings out against the cylinder walls and scraping downward, and between the cam lobes and lifters or followers. There are other parts of an engine where this can happen. The oil is micro thin under these conditions and under great pressure. That’s where and when oil fails and wear occurs.

Testing for true failure at high load pressure under actual and extreme engine operating temperatures makes sense.

Here is one exception his testing seems to overlook: Coking of engine oil in turbocharged engines. That’s not applicable to our engine, of course, but the center shaft of a turbo spins at well over 100,000 rpm and it’s bearings are fed by engine oil. The temperature of that shaft rises to as high as 1500 degrees F. Ordinary oils fail, leaving hard baked on carbon deposits. Water cooling can only help so much. Synthetic oils can survive higher temperatures.

I suspect some synthetics would perform differently if he tested high load oil film failure at turbo bearing temps. That might be of interest to the B9 guys and others running turbos.

I admit that I’ve not been an Amsoil guy, but I was impressed with the test performance of their two top oils. The problem I have with Amsoil is that I don’t know if their additive packages would be good enough to provide ANSI SN or VW502/503/505 protection for the full service interval period. To me, that’s where the industry and manufacturer certification has value, because quality over expected service interval is a part of the certification testing.

Yes, the great performance of lighter oils was a bit surprising, but the data is the data. I would suspect that as he keeps testing new oils he will encounter more wide viscosity 0w40 oils and we will see the results if we visit the blog regularly.

He is not just some tinkerer in a garage with jake leg home-made test equipment testing things that may or may not matter, and we can learn only so much from Blackstone testing new or used oil for the quantative presence of certain measured substances.

joe916

01-16-2020, 05:27 PM

B171

01-16-2020, 05:52 PM

Where did you get that twist on oil funnel for your car?

MSq5

01-16-2020, 05:53 PM

He has all 16 of the oils he tested on his YouTube video and he sent out all 16 oils to Blackstone for oil analysis you don't need no VW certification just look at Amsoil it's rated as one of the highest oil you can buy and it doesn't have no VW certification
And the chart is a screenshot of his YouTube video results

Nice try. Not. Show us where Blackstone did the testing for the video. Show us the supporting data for the two charts on additives and detergents. Blackstone reports don’t contain that information. What is the educational background and what are the technical qualifications of the video guy beyond testing lawnmowers and appliances?

Again, again, I’ve posed a couple simple, easy to understand questions.. Still looking for an answer.

1. Why is VW502/503/505 certification BS. Facts please.

2. Why is the SAE engineer’s methodology, his data or his conclusions “garbage.” Be specific. Where are the flaws?

joe916

01-16-2020, 06:09 PM

MSq5

01-16-2020, 07:19 PM

All of the information is at the end of his video of the Blackstone test results I'm sorry buddy but you really do not need a VW 502 503 505 certification just to run a better quality oil in your 3.0 t go on the BMW forms and see how much guys are running Red Line without bmw certifications

No mention of Blackstone anywhere in the video. The two charts you posted earlier regarding detergents and wear additives are totally unsupported by ANY data from ANY source.

You give only your opinion that non certified oils are “better” than VW502/503/505 without support. And now we go chasing BMW user forums rather than accept reliable, objective, controlled data on wear protection from an SAE professional engineer.

None of my questions were ever answered. The SAE engineer’s methodology, data and conclusions are left unchallenged except for calling it garbage.

Sorry, but I ain’t buying what you are pushing. In real recent true wear protection testing to failure , Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 5w30 was mid-pack, #62. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w30 did much better. We don’t know what it’s 0w40 would do, because it was not in either test.

We do have data on Mobil 1 FS Euro. It was ranked #7.

The earlier discussed Shell Rotella T-6 performed very poorly in this test, at #202, down with most of the short change interval racing oils.

I will consider 540rat’s blog to valid, verifiable, legitimate scientific testing and worthy of relying on unless and until his methodology, data and conclusions can be shown to be flawed.

There is much honest scientific information in that blog. It is trustworthy and worth following. I have been a “student” of his for some time.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

joe916

01-16-2020, 11:53 PM

No mention of Blackstone anywhere in the video. The two charts you posted earlier regarding detergents and wear additives are totally unsupported by ANY data from ANY source.

You give only your opinion that non certified oils are “better” than VW502/503/505 without support. And now we go chasing BMW user forums rather than accept reliable, objective, controlled data on wear protection from an SAE professional engineer.

None of my questions were ever answered. The SAE engineer’s methodology, data and conclusions are left unchallenged except for calling it garbage.

Sorry, but I ain’t buying what you are pushing. In real recent true wear protection testing to failure , Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 5w30 was mid-pack, #62. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w30 did much better. We don’t know what it’s 0w40 would do, because it was not in either test.

We do have data on Mobil 1 FS Euro. It was ranked #7.

The earlier discussed Shell Rotella T-6 performed very poorly in this test, at #202, down with most of the short change interval racing oils.

I will consider 540rat’s blog to valid, verifiable, legitimate scientific testing and worthy of relying on unless and until his methodology, data and conclusions can be shown to be flawed.

There is much honest scientific information in that blog. It is trustworthy and worth following. I have been a “student” of his for some time.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/https://www.patreon.com/posts/27168208

Scroll down and you will see that all 16 oils were sent in to be blackstone analyzed i sent you the link and i screenshot it as well lol 158906158907

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

MSq5

01-17-2020, 06:08 AM

https://www.patreon.com/posts/27168208

Scroll down and you will see that all 16 oils were sent in to be blackstone analyzed i sent you the link and i screenshot it as well lol 158906158907

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

One more time. I will respond no further until you do these things:

1. Scroll down to what? I’m asking about the VIDEO. Stay with me. Where in the lawnmower/appliance gadget guy’s video does he mention that the oil testing was done by Blackstone? Maybe give me a time reference, minutes and seconds.

I know that the Patreon link (not the video) tested oils and posted the Blackstone charts. There is a disconnect between the Paetron.com link and the video. We are just to assume (you know what assume means), that the oils in the Paetron link and the oils in the video are the same thing. I see no evidence of that.

Nor is there ANY supporting evidence for the shade-tree lawnmower tester’s data in two of the three charts. I want to know his source for the video chart for detergent/dispersants and the video chart for anti-wear additives.

You will not find that data in the Blackstone reports. Did he just make that up out of thin air?

And, it’s terribly flawed methodology to just add up the parts per million of different, dissimilar elements and compare the combined totals. Example: zinc and phosphorus both have anti-wear properties. But a given part per million quantity of one element does not have the same anti-wear properties. Recent research has led oil manufacturers to cut back on zinc from former levels because it has other harmful effects and because it is a classic case that more is not better, it is worse, once a particular ppm is reached. Where did those two charts come from and what is the scientific validity of adding total detergents and total detergent/dispersants and making the leap of faith that such totals are “good”.

2. I must now assume you agree that 540 Rat’s testing is good science and reliable, because your only observation about it is that it is “garbage”, but with no support whatsoever.

I will not respond further or waste my time unless you can give us this information. Without it, the shade tree guy’s video falls apart.

S4'ed

01-17-2020, 07:29 AM

Where did you get that twist on oil funnel for your car?

Funnel that twist-locks to the oil fill hole on the valve cover of the 3.0T....makes filling easier and mess-risk-free.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WSHN59B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=viglink20461-20

amazon.com
These are all the same, just different label and color, about $14 to $18
Motivx MX2301B2
OEMTOOLS 87024
ARES 56023

joe916

01-17-2020, 08:05 AM

One more time. I will respond no further until you do these things:

1. Scroll down to what? I’m asking about the VIDEO. Stay with me. Where in the lawnmower/appliance gadget guy’s video does he mention that the oil testing was done by Blackstone? Maybe give me a time reference, minutes and seconds.

I know that the Patreon link (not the video) tested oils and posted the Blackstone charts. There is a disconnect between the Paetron.com link and the video. We are just to assume (you know what assume means), that the oils in the Paetron link and the oils in the video are the same thing. I see no evidence of that.

Nor is there ANY supporting evidence for the shade-tree lawnmower tester’s data in two of the three charts. I want to know his source for the video chart for detergent/dispersants and the video chart for anti-wear additives.

You will not find that data in the Blackstone reports. Did he just make that up out of thin air?

And, itÂ’s terribly flawed methodology to just add up the parts per million of different, dissimilar elements and compare the combined totals. Example: zinc and phosphorus both have anti-wear properties. But a given part per million quantity of one element does not have the same anti-wear properties. Recent research has led oil manufacturers to cut back on zinc from former levels because it has other harmful effects and because it is a classic case that more is not better, it is worse, once a particular ppm is reached. Where did those two charts come from and what is the scientific validity of adding total detergents and total detergent/dispersants and making the leap of faith that such totals are “good”.

2. I must now assume you agree that 540 Rat’s testing is good science and reliable, because your only observation about it is that it is “garbage”, but with no support whatsoever.

I will not respond further or waste my time unless you can give us this information. Without it, the shade tree guy’s video falls apart.

i rest my case lol all i know is the Pennzoil ultra platinum is keeping my timing chain noise at bay [race] if its good enough for ferrari then its gone enough for my lil German monster 3.0t and everyone who submitted blacktone results on bobistheoilguy.com prove that as well [:D]