A different road than K04-064

[Mars2]

A few month ago I bought a super cheap second hand OEM IHI JH5 turbo, Aka K03 ( I don't know why people continue calling it like that)
To study it and see if it was possible to get a hybride built out of it.

When opening it I saw that It got same old style cast compressor wheel as Golf MK6 GTI 40.2/52.5mm

But to my surprised the Turbine Was a very modern Mixed flow 52mm inducer and 44mm exducer with 7 blade and maximum open back to save weight. The Golf GTI Mk6 has 8 blade 45mm/41mm only
What a good surpise knowing that the K04-064 has got a turbine 51mm inducer 44.5mm Exducer with 12 blade and older radial flow shape.


So if I'm not wrong the fact that the JH5 turbine is mixed flow this shape of turbine is the most efficient at the moment and that it's also a bit bigger than the K04_064 turbine let me believe
that the Hot side of this JH5 has more potential than the K04-064 hot side.


So then I search what other compressor wheel are fitted to the JH5 on other platform.
Keep in mind that the K04-064 come with a 46.39mm inducer and 56.08mm exducer compressor wheel 6+6 blade forge CNC wheel
I found that the Audi S6/RS6 4.0TFSI use two JH5 turbo. those are fitted with a 44.2mm inducer and 58mm exducer.
then I found this 4.0TFSI Compressor wheel 44/58mm with 62.46mm extend Tip, narrow nose 6+6 blade Forge alloy cnc .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kinugawa-Billet-Compressor-Wheel-IHI-Audi-VW-RHF5-4-0-TFSI-44-2-58mm-6-6-blade-/253175182607

I thought mixing this Modern JH5 B8 Mixed flow turbine with a modern 4.0TFSI 44/58mm extend tip could be a very great turbo, plug and play quite cheap.
So I got a company to rebuild that turbo with reinforced 360 bearing, 5 axe CNC ported Compressor housing to fit that 44/58mm compressor wheel.
Then very thing balanced to 250.000 rpm.

That hybrid turbo just arrived to me.
I will instal it in the coming month and get the car tuned for E85.
I will let you know what I put down.
Let's hope that my assumption on the turbine are right and that just did not spend 900 Euro for nothing.

[Chatchie]

Cool info. What software/tuning solution are you using?

[Mars2]

Cool info. What software/tuning solution are you using?

My tuner PBS performance here in France use Winols to create the custom tune and then inject it With B-Flash
the tuning is done on a Dyno.

-Winols
https://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/software/

-B-flash
https://www.bflash.eu

- PBS ( the guy who tune my Car)
https://www.facebook.com/pg/PBS-Performance-Scalp-206787336328291/posts/?ref=page_internal

[Spawne32]

Kinugawa is the same company as Mambatek pretty much. Rumor has it one of the engineers split off from Kinugawa to form Mambatek on his own but uses the same designs and manufacturers to produce his products as well. If you read my ebay turbo thread, you will see some pretty interesting combinations of custom compressor wheels and turbine wheels they offer for the K04. Those will all fit in the K03 compressor and turbine housings with some machining which you seem to have nailed down. It might be worth investing.

[Depthcharge]

Love the research and creativity here. I wonder how hot it'll run... Would also be interesting to see if some of the other tuning companies could provide suggested values for a flash or a hybrid blade turbo.

[Mars2]

Kinugawa is the same company as Mambatek pretty much. Rumor has it one of the engineers split off from Kinugawa to form Mambatek on his own but uses the same designs and manufacturers to produce his products as well. If you read my ebay turbo thread, you will see some pretty interesting combinations of custom compressor wheels and turbine wheels they offer for the K04. Those will all fit in the K03 compressor and turbine housings with some machining which you seem to have nailed down. It might be worth investing.

I read your full ebay thread. It was very inspiring. You made me realize that the K04-064 had a compressor wheel of 46.39/56.08 and not 46.39/60.5 like mention every where on the net by APR. Thank's for that.

I think we really need to stop to call our OEM turbo a K03. K03 is B&W turbo that never has been on any EA888.2 from the Volkswagen/AUDI/SEAT/SKODA car's.
Our OEM turbo is a IHI JH5 from the family of the IHI RHF5 that is fitted to many cars like all the series of VF turbo from Subaru from the VF20 to VF 58 but also the Turbo of Golf MK7 GTI and R (just those turn in opposite way due to opposite exits side of exhaust) some of Austin MINI, Audi RS6..........

Non of the wheel fitting B&W K03/K04 will fit the OEM IHI turbo the compressor plate is different, axe diameter of turbine is different....... You need wheel from the IHI RHF5 Family.

My idea was to go a different route using the OEM IHI turbo to take advantage of the very modern mixed flow turbine of the IHI JH5. Also because in my car with EA888.2 fitting a K03/K04 imply a lot of modification.
I hope to get Power similar to a B&W K04-064 with a plug and play turbo.
After all our engine is half of a audi RS6 4.0 TFSI so I know the compressor side is good for HP level of a K04 ( half the HP curve of a stage 2 C7 RS6) and I hope my assumption of the hot side are good and that the turbine size/shape will not become the limiting factor of that hybrid turbo.
https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_40tfsi_rs6rs7.html


My hybrid has been put together and balanced by Turbozentrum in Germany after many talk with them on size of compressor and turbine.

The Compressor/turbine ratio is where it should be in between 1.05 and 1.15 ( 58 exducer compressor/ 52 Inducer Turbine= 1.11)
The trim of the compressor wheel is 57. that should in theory give a good transient boost response.
So in Theorie all is good

But all this in theory. let's see real world after my tuner does me a custom tune.
Maybe all this thinking is bullshit [:d][:d][:D] But I need to try to know.

[Spawne32]

I think the reason its commonly called a K03 is because the IHI JH5 specifications are either identical or damn near identical (with a fraction of a mm) to the K03 specifications. But you are right, and as time has shown, they are about as reliable as all other IHI turbos. lol Looking forward to seeing your results. ;)

[JLAllroad]

I think the reason its commonly called a K03 is because the IHI JH5 specifications are either identical or damn near identical (with a fraction of a mm) to the K03 specifications. But you are right, and as time has shown, they are about as reliable as all other IHI turbos. lol Looking forward to seeing your results. ;)

Most B8-8.5 failures are wastegate/actuator rod/bushing related, I bet the CHRA is good for well over 100k, even tuned, unfortunately most get yanked well before.




Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Mars2]

I think the reason its commonly called a K03 is because the IHI JH5 specifications are either identical or damn near identical (with a fraction of a mm) to the K03 specifications. But you are right, and as time has shown, they are about as reliable as all other IHI turbos. lol Looking forward to seeing your results. ;)

The size of BW K03 are may be very similar on the compressor side but really really different on the turbine side.

-B&W K03 11 blade radial shape 40mm exducer / 45mm inducer
-IHI JH5 EA888.2 7 blade Mixflow shape 44mm exducer/ 52 mm inducer.

The Exducer side of the JH5 is almost the size of the inducer of the K03. That is really not comparable size's of turbo.
they are almost opposite from my understanding. the limiting factor in the K03 is the Turbine vs the limiting factor in the JH5 EA888.2 is the compressor

I guess most people ( like me) had presume that the EA888.1 and EA888.2 were using turbo of same size turbine and compressor.

Now that I know that they don't. It make total sense for me that EA888.2 in stage 1 and 2 always put more HP than EA888.1
The flow is still limited by the small Compressor wheel so about same boost but with the bigger turbine wheel you can run more advance timing because of cooler EGT.
Their for always more HP on EA888.2
Before I thought it was because of the VVL

Here in France EA888.2 get always 15 to 20 CHP more than EA888.1. Same in USA when looking at APR

In Russia some guy's fited the Exhaust manifold and CHRA form JH5 EA888.2 to a G6 GTI Compressor housing mount that turbo to a G6 GTI EA888.1 and also get this kind of HP gain.

PS: I don't want to be opposite to you it's just that when I an get answer I have to try to make my point and get argumentation for that. that is what is nice with forum because you have to think deeper for argumentation because of the interaction of other's. So sorry if sound like a pain in the ass.

[Spawne32]

Most B8-8.5 failures are wastegate/actuator rod/bushing related, I bet the CHRA is good for well over 100k, even tuned, unfortunately most get yanked well before.




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The wastegate flap is still part of the IHI turbo though. Mine has 80k on it and the seals have begun leaking unfortunately.

[JLAllroad]

The wastegate flap is still part of the IHI turbo though. Mine has 80k on it and the seals have begun leaking unfortunately.

I’ve heard of a few considering going this route but once you pull a 100k turbo most don’t want to put it back in.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0T-VW-Audi-IHI-RHF5H-Wastegate-Rattle-Flapper-Rebuild-Kit-2009-2010-2011-2012/123471075185?hash=item1cbf731771:g:0EcAAOSwSupbq5h u


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[Mars2]

I got a very helping guy to measure his IHI JH5 turbine from a AUDI C7 RS6 4.0TFSI and it's 51.5mm inducer and 44mm exducer. So very close to the IHI JH5 turbine we have that is 52mm inducer and 44mm exducer.
His number are not 100% accurate as with 9 blade turbine you don't have 2 blade 180° degree from each other. but it should be very close to ours.

The Audi RS6 C7 JH5 turbine is 9 blade radial flow vs our 7 blade Mixflow.


156429156430

[Depthcharge]

any updates? Super curious how it's performing once you get it installed and what the differences are in the tune values if anyone wants to follow your path.

[Mars2]

I had a work window to instal it last week but my tuner was not available.
Now too much work. Begening of February should be less work I hope my tuner will have some time for me then.

[BennyB8]

I had a work window to instal it last week but my tuner was not available.
Now too much work. Begening of February should be less work I hope my tuner will have some time for me then.

Sad to hear it, but really excited for it to happen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mars2]

I Have install this weekend my hybrid JH5 with OEM turbine and C7 RS6/RS7 Compressor wheel 44mm inducer/ 58mm exducer with extended tip 62mm Billet 6+6 blade.
Today I did some log.
Looking very promising already with the Stage 2 Tune I will soon get a custom tune for this hybrid I'm just waiting for new WG to arrive to crank up the Cracking pressure to 10 PSI ( now 4.25 PSI on oem WG)

It spool very similar to OEM JH5 22.5 PSI at 2800 Rpm

I did some MAF Log:

@ 3100 Rpm I have 170G/s
@ 4600 Rmp I have 234 G/s
from 5000 rpm to 6400 Rpm I have a plateau around 238-240G/s

My stage 2 tune peak at 22.5 PSI from 2800 to 4100 rpm then taper to 11.5 PSI at 6200 Rpm only 9 PSI at 6700rpm

Target on Custome tune for this turbo is to copy boost curve of Audi RS6 C7 Stage 2 so 26-27 Peak boost tapering to 21 PSI if enough fueling with 100% E85. Install 3 bar MAP
Should make some descent power.

PS: my stage 2 tune run 22° max timing at 6200 Rpm. Very agressive. Still 0° of timing pull on the 4 cylinder's with this turbo. Thank you E85

[Mars2]

One thing that I forgot to speak about is how simple the installing this turbo is compare to a K04.
Has the turbine stay OEM you don't need to remove the downpipes, exhaust manifold.....
You just need to remove water line, oil line, all the air pipe's and then unscrew the screw that tight the CHRA to the turbine housing and remove the half turbo ( CHRA plus Cold side)
That save a lot of time.

If some company was proposing such an Upgrade they could sell only half Turbo like they do for C7 4.0TFSI. This could bring the price down a lot.
https://sillyrabbitmotorsport.com/rs7-oem-turbo-upgrade.html

[Spawne32]

what are the power numbers? also the E85 numbers I don't really care about, i wanna see what it does on pump gas. as thats what 90% of us have to run.

[Mars2]

I will never run on Pump Gas.
My car is not flexfuel it's dedicated tune only for E85.
93 and 91 here is almost 2.5 time more expansive than E85.
So did not drive with 91 or 93 since 2008 :) :) :) only E85 when I'm in France.
When on Maui I put 91 in my very old F150

The turbine and compressor wheel size is exactly in between a IS20 from G7 GTI and a IS38 from G7 R.
So you can imagine what power/torque it should do on 91 and 93

[bb-tt]

Perry and I both push ~330 g/s with the ko4.

[Spawne32]

Perry and I both push ~330 g/s with the ko4.

yeh thats what i thought, 230 g/s is pretty much stock is it not?

[Spawne32]

I will never run on Pump Gas.
My car is not flexfuel it's dedicated tune only for E85.
93 and 91 here is almost 2.5 time more expansive than E85.
So did not drive with 91 or 93 since 2008 :) :) :) only E85 when I'm in France.
When on Maui I put 91 in my very old F150

The turbine and compressor wheel size is exactly in between a IS20 from G7 GTI and a IS38 from G7 R.
So you can imagine what power/torque it should do on 91 and 93

well you said 238-240G/s, and like bb-tt said, the k04 pushes about 330 g/s, so I would expect about 240-250whp. shane put down 285whp with the ebay k04 pushing 285 g/s but i cant say for sure how aggressive his tuning is.

[Mars2]

If you read I have 240 with Stage 2 tune so only 11 PSI at 6200 Rpm. How much will a K04 make with 11 PSI? with OEM turbo same tune I was 220
Let's see what I get with 24 PSI at 6200rpm when my tuner implement same boost curve as Audi RS6.
Next weekend I will instal my wastegate modified to 11PSI cracking pressure ( Turbozentrum forgot to do it when they worked on my turbo) and then I will get my tuner to work on it.

This what John banks reply me about boost curve of RS6.
163957

[Spawne32]

awaiting your results, i hope it looks good

[Depthcharge]

So much anticipation haha.

[Traptalk]

Excited to hear if thing is capable of holding that kind of boost into the red Line, I don’t think anyone’s k03 is making 22psi at 6200rpm

[Mars2]

Today I went to get back from friend my piggy back MAP fooler.
Instal it and logged max MAF on way back.

So with 1920 hPa ( 13.3 PSI) at 6200 rpm I got 261G/s. Sea level 16.5 °C outside temperature.

My 11 PSI wastegate should be here friday.
So Turbo out again on the weekend to instal new WG.
Hope I can get tune next week because after I leave for work in Thailand 2 week and then until 15 of May on Maui ( Hawaii)
So next window for tuning here in France is after 15 of May.

[Mars2]

My OEM Wastegate that Turbozentrum forgot to modify to get a cracking pressure of 11PSI ( 0,8bar) just got back here this morning.
this weekend I'm taking out the turbo to install it.
I hope that next week I can get it tuned. Will call my tuner for an appointment.

164603164604

[Mars2]

Just finished remove turbo to instal new wastegate and put it back on My IHI JH5 hybrid with RS7 compressor wheel.
I'm stil on stage 2 software.
I did two quick shit log with iPhone vcds to see max MAF on the way back from my friend that got a lift to do the work.
I like the 230G/s at3300 rpm
The Van is pushing really strong Remenber I'm on E85 with 21° of timing at 6200 rpm and almost 23° at top end.
I will do some better log tomorrow with timing and timing pull.

165217165218

[Perry01]

Why waste time logging data with Stage 2 software?

[Spawne32]

Why waste time logging data with Stage 2 software?

In all fairness, "stages" really don't mean much of any thing other than how much boost the tune is commanding (and obviously minor changes to accommodate that). For example, I ran the "stage 3" F23L and K04 tunes from eurodyne on a factory K03, and all it does is run that turbo balls to the wall. You wind up going from about 18psi on stage 2 to almost pegging the map sensor. Obviously you can't get the most power out of it as it was designed for but the "stages" as they put them are merely marketing tools. What is Mars realistically going to do when he goes "stage 3", hes going to turn the boost up, lower ignition timing, and optimize the fuel requirements.

[Mars2]

In all fairness, "stages" really don't mean much of any thing other than how much boost the tune is commanding (and obviously minor changes to accommodate that). For example, I ran the "stage 3" F23L and K04 tunes from eurodyne on a factory K03, and all it does is run that turbo balls to the wall. You wind up going from about 18psi on stage 2 to almost pegging the map sensor. Obviously you can't get the most power out of it as it was designed for but the "stages" as they put them are merely marketing tools. What is Mars realistically going to do when he goes "stage 3", hes going to turn the boost up, lower ignition timing, and optimize the fuel requirements.

Yes exactly.
I logged stage 2 to see how much gain already like that to have some data.
Also my tuner asked this as he don't want me to book appointment if their is no space to gain anything on boost.
Look like their is space for more boost so I will now book my tuner.

[Mars2]

What is intresting with having log and car on dyno at each step is that you get a lot of data.
You can for exemple get accurate Crank HP/ MAF value ratio.
My car has been already 4 time on dyno

For exemple:
- on OEM tune 93 pump gas with Wagner IC no snow screen and drop in filter with a bit more than 10° of timing it did 213CHP and was at 160G/s so the ratio is 1.31
- on stage 1 with 14° of timing it did 278CHP and 206 G/s so the ratio was 1.34
- On stage 2 ( no cat and intake) with 21° of timing it did 319CHP and 226.5 G/s so a ratio of 1.405.

With that you can see that if I was still with OEM timing of 10° I would need at least 20G/s that have now to make same CHP. SO about 290G/s

Knowing that I can discuss with my tuner of what strategies we will apply. Lot of boost in the rpm that that is hard on the turbo and will increase the MAF their for maybe making my fueling struggle to deliver enough E85 or Go less boost that make the turbo work less hard in the rev and very agressive timing making MAF value lower and easier for my fueling to deliver enough E85.
It will be some compromise in between those two option.

PS: I don't believe in the 1.25 ratio MAF to CHP for every car what ever is the timing. This is something from the past with MPI car. One of the big advantage of GDI is to inject gasoline directly in the cylinder so you take full advantage of the dynamic octane increase from gas evaporation. William Knose from Delicious tuning did some testing on the GT86 that have both GDI and MPI Runing only on GDI made substantial gain compare to running with combined GDI and MPI. Allowing more timing when tuning only on GDI. When you make the math of for exemple audi B8 93 stage 2 that run around 300 CHP for about 220-225G/s you are also not at 1,25 ratio more something around 1.34-1.35

[Chatchie]

Why would you log/Dyno crank ho when you have who right there? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Mars2]

Why would you log/Dyno crank ho when you have who right there? Doesn't make sense to me.

What???

[Traptalk]

Typo on his end. He meant “whp” not “who”

He is essentially asking why you are bothering with estimated crank figures when you can measure from the wheels directly with a dyno

[Mars2]

1-Because in Europe nobody use WHP
2- Because in europe Most Dyno will not even show WHP
3- Because in Europe many tuner use MAHA dyno and MAHA has crazy algorytme for WHP. on some car it's almost 38% lower than CHP.

I don't say it's good or bad it's just something we don't use here. Like we use metric and not imperial.....

Some exemple of Maha Dyno result:

Golf MK6 35 edition same engine as MK6R ( EA113 with K04-064) 389 CHP( that is a bit high) but only 240WHP 38% Power loss on a FWD!!!!!
If use wheel HP it will be a crazy hart breaker
https://www.facebook.com/259283594245094/photos/pcb.1420380338135408/1420380251468750/?type=3&theater

or RS3 stage 2 516 CHP ( that is normal power for a stage 2) only 359WHP again 38%
On this one the fade red line is OEM before tune you can see that it's perfect 400CHP like Audi claim
last on Maha the more power the more the pourcentage of powerless increase. At 100 hp you might have 20% and then at 700HP 42%. Very crazy algorytme.
https://www.facebook.com/259283594245094/photos/rpp.259283594245094/1653568588149914/?type=3&theater

If you compare CHP from Dynojet and MAHA they are quite similar. But if you compare WHP of Dynojet and MAHA then MAHA is 20 to 25% lower.

Also with CHP you can compare same engine output from different platform FWD, 4WD
My T6 tsi will always put more WHP than your audi A4 B8 with same mode. Because it's haldex and as it is so long my back wheel are always 2 feet behind the rear roller so i have to unplug the Haldex to run it on dyno on FWD.

My T6 ON the Dyno when I was going Stage 1 you can see how far are the back wheel.
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[Depthcharge]

Makes sense to me. I'm curious about smoothing out the dips at 3200 and 4800 RPM with the hybrid turbo set up. Can anyone with Stage III and K04 log boost pressure at those RPMs?

[Perry01]

He is essentially asking why you are bothering with estimated crank figures when you can measure from the wheels directly with a dyno

I am also perplexed as to why anyone would put their wheels on a dyno and then convert the known number (WHP) to an estimated number (CHP) and rely on the estimated figure for comparison. What’s most important is the amount of power a vehicle puts to its wheels because the wheels are what propels a vehicle forward.

There are dyno’s that attach to a motor’s flywheel (engine dyno) that will accurately measure crank horsepower, if an accurate (not an estimate) CHP is desired, then remove your engine and put it on an engine dyno.

[Spawne32]

I am also perplexed as to why anyone would put their wheels on a dyno and then convert the known number (WHP) to an estimated number (CHP) and rely on the estimated figure for comparison. What’s most important is the amount of power a vehicle puts to its wheels because the wheels are what propels a vehicle forward.

There are dyno’s that attach to a motor’s flywheel (engine dyno) that will accurately measure crank horsepower, if an accurate (not an estimate) CHP is desired, then remove your engine and put it on an engine dyno.

because it makes it sound like its making more power than it is of course ;)

[Mars2]

because it makes it sound like its making more power than it is of course ;)
[:D]

Could you please make the math for me?
Now without a tune I make 278G/S with 21° of ignition timing at 6200 rpm and 0 timing pull (Zero knock)
This aggressive timing gave me 319 CHP with OEM turbo so about 270 FWDHP ( Front wheel HP)
I have issue with the throttle body closing as I get 2800 Hpa in the midrange. I 'm at the border line of that problem as on some log it does not happen and other it happen.
Hope my tuner can manage that.
here a log that show 278 and 0 timing pull.
This time I use the computer to log because the sampling was really bad with the iPhone.

165625

[Spawne32]

I think you are missing the point he is making. If you arent measuring crank horsepower on an engine dyno, you are making an estimate of crank horsepower, and therefore subject to scrutiny.

[Mars2]

I forgot to say that this log is done with a MAP piggy box. that trick the MAP by 200hPa
So my real max pressure is 3000hPa about 2 Bar or 29PSI
The real pressure at max G/S is then 1.2 Bar or 17.5PSI

If I remove the Piggy back and the ECU see the real pressure then it's freaking out and closing the throttle almost on the full range.
The car is then very slow
I really need to get it tuned. but my tuner was not available this week, Next week I will be skiing, then 2 week in Thailand for the Job then 6 week in Hawaii enjoying the wave's.
So it will be tuned end of May.
See this log without the MAP Piggy back.

165626

[Mars2]

I think you are missing the point he is making. If you arent measuring crank horsepower on an engine dyno, you are making an estimate of crank horsepower, and therefore subject to scrutiny.

I got that 2000% but how do I do when dyno available in my country don't show the WHP and only give you CHP????
We are used to deal with that like we are used to deal with Metric system.
For my Job I deal all te time with imperial and Metric and it's no problème for me like it is no problem to deal with WHP.
We jus do't have this here it's not in hour automotive culture.

PS: the good tuner calibrate their Dyno so that they get the OEM power of the car because here any time you by a tune the tuner have to provide before and after dyno of your car.
95% of the car enthusiast will stay and look at the before and after. At least is what I did. 5 hour their with all the Dyno pass to get the right tune.
So if before Dyno is way more than the car is supposed to bye out of factory then it's obvious than he is cheating.
Second a Dyno is just a tool to compare before and after.

[Mars2]

Just in case you don't believe me about the 21° of timing here is a log with OEM turbo.
On the log above with the hybrid turbo I didn't log again that Timing because I know it. I just checked if it was pulling some.
That day was 41°C ( 106°F) that's why G/S are very low. About 11G/S lower than when it get to 15°C (60°F)

165628

[Perry01]

I forgot to say that this log is done with a MAP piggy box. that trick the MAP by 200hPa
So my real max pressure is 3000hPa about 2 Bar or 29PSI...

I really need to get it tuned. but my tuner was not available this week, Next week I will be skiing, then 2 week in Thailand for the Job then 6 week in Hawaii enjoying the wave's. So it will be tuned end of May.


29 PSI of boost on a K04 hybrid? Is this another estimate? Your motor must be custom built with good rods and pistons otherwise it would have gone Boom! on stock internals....

Let me know when you get to Hawaii and I will show you what a custom tune is like on a K04-0064

[Mars2]

I would love that you show me but I think we are on different Island. If I don't mistake you are on Oahu and I have a property on Maui just above Jaws (Peahi).
In case I go to Ohau I would very happy to get a ride in your car.


"29 PSI of boost on a K04 hybrid?Is this another estimate?" Check the VCDS log that I attached it's their 3098hPa from 3000rpm to 4900 rpm. VCDS is not estimate. So that is at least 2 BAR and 2X14.5=29 or do I make a mistake?
the 29PSi is with a IHI hybrid not a K04. But IHI have better Turbine side A/R
I will reduce the cracking pressure to 0,6 bar until I get my tuner to tune it and control all is OK.

[Spawne32]

I would love that you show me but I think we are on different Island. If I don't mistake you are on Ohau and I have a property on Maui just above Jaws (Peahi).
In case I go to Ohau I would very happy to get a ride in your car.


"29 PSI of boost on a K04 hybrid?" Check the VCDS log that I attached it's their 3098hPa from 3000rpm to 4900 rpm. VCDS is not estimate. So that is at least 2 BAR and 2X14.5=29 or do I make a mistake?
the 29PSi is with a IHI hybrid not a K04. But IHI have better Turbine side A/R
I will reduce the cracking pressure to 0,6 bar until I get my tuner to tune it and control all is OK.

Your o2 sensor is also reading .993 lambda at 30psi.

[Mars2]

Yes I think because it's fully closing the throttle body. So the AFR goes for cruising AFR. I could be wrong.
Look how low are the G/S because Throttle body is closed.
When I can manage to get the throttle body not closing the G/S are 50G/S higher

This was just some pull to see what the turbo is capable of. I'm 300% aware that I need a tune and that it is not safe for the engine to drive like that.
That's why I will lower the cracking pressure. this will lower te full boost curve.
With OEM cracking pressure of 4.25 PSI I was not even reaching the specified Boost value of 2500hPa

[Spawne32]

Yes I think because it's fully closing the throttle body. So the AFR goes for cruising AFR. I could be wrong.
Look how low are the G/S because Throttle body is closed.
When I can manage to get the throttle body not closing the G/S are 50G/S higher

I see that, but that would be the reason behind you hitting 30psi if the turbo was pushing against a closed throttle plate. Realistically if your throttle was staying wide open I would imagine that pressure being much lower.

[Mars2]

Yes You can see it with the Piggy back the pressure is at 2800hPA, 1.8 bar or 26PSI
With the Piggy back the car is really fast.

[Mars2]

So with all this testing the only things 100% sure that I learned about this hybrid turbo are:

- This Hybrid IHI turbo can generate more than 25PSI from 3000 to 4900 that is shown by the Throttle closing.
- This Hybrid IHI turbo can produce 278G/S at 5700Rpm with 79% of N75 duty.
- This Hybrid IHI turbo is definitely an upgrade compare to OEM IHI JH5.

All the rest is speculation because I get too exiting and could not get a Tune before living.
I will any way enjoy some spirited mountain driving going up in the alps tonight. I have remove I have bring down the cracking pressure form 11 Psi to 8.5psi so no more over shoot and down to 269 G/S
That is more safe for now.
I hope I get Snow on the road tonight for some good drift. This would be fantastic.

[EvolutionArmory]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks European dyno figures are horse shit.

Unless you pull your motor and put it on a legit engine dyno, European “crank” HP figures are bullshit. A wheel dyno isn’t a very accurate tool to begin with. Now you’re getting an estimate based off of an existing estimate if your wheel dyno operator hand you a crank HP chart. It’s straight up nonsense. 🤣

At least we have ASE standards in the US.

[Mars2]

Lot of time with the lock down!!!
So play with some idea of new route for MAF to Turbo hose and relocation of Airbox behind bumper. with direct feed fresh air.
the oem duct is very restrictive and lot of curve to be able to use same airbox as the other T6 TDI.

Finish design that Hose from MAF to turbo. in 3D. I will ask company quotation to produce it in Slicone.
Now I need to design the airbox and then find company to print in 3D. That is easy.

T6 engine and how I want to modify.
169568

MAF/Turbo duct 3D design.

169569169570169571

[Mars2]

Today I learn how to do graph on excel from my VCDS log
Here a average of 3 log from my IHI hybrid still on stage 2 E85 tune.
Hope lockdown will stop soon so I can fly back home and get it tune.
I see their is some more potential with a flattened top en N75 duty curve at around 75 to 80%
I did not include the boost actual as for this testing I used a piggy back to increase the boost so ECU don't see the real Value.
So boost Log would not be relevant of what is the true boost.

172998

[Mars2]

I also worked a bit more on my intake file.
Plane to use APR RS3 cone filter 152mm opening a the end of this.
https://store.goapr.com/products/APR-Replacement-Filter-for-CI100038%252dA.html#
Orange is where the MAF will be.

Now I need to design the Airbox around the cone filter but for that I need be close to my car to take a lot of measurement to make it tight fit.
Then I will get CNC some sample in styrofoam to check the fitting.

172999

[Spawne32]

ah the ole whale penis. I used to have one on an acura integra when I was a kid. [>_<]

https://i.imgur.com/mlS5qCW.jpg

[Nano909]

ah the ole whale penis. I used to have one on an acura integra when I was a kid. [>_<]

https://i.imgur.com/mlS5qCW.jpg

Same thing I thought of. Lol

[A4x]

Today I learn how to do graph on excel from my VCDS log
Here a average of 3 log from my IHI hybrid still on stage 2 E85 tune.
Hope lockdown will stop soon so I can fly back home and get it tune.
I see their is some more potential with a flattened top en N75 duty curve at around 75 to 80%
I did not include the boost actual as for this testing I used a piggy back to increase the boost so ECU don't see the real Value.
So boost Log would not be relevant of what is the true boost.

172998

Your area of throttle closure is the same as 90% of us on stage 2 and K04 tunes that get some choppiness in the powerband.

[Mars2]

ah the ole whale penis. I used to have one on an acura integra when I was a kid. [>_<]

https://i.imgur.com/mlS5qCW.jpg

I agree[:D][:D][:D][:D]

But it's more visual effect it just grow smoothly from the turbo opening of 50mm to the MAF 80mm diameter.

173018

[JLAllroad]

Any update or logs on your new turbo?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Traptalk]

So Mars i don’t know if you saw my post in the ebay k04 thread but my winols tuner encountered throttle closure issues too.

My loba k04 can easily support 2 bar and we were working on a 2 bar file but ultimately ran out of time I was in town and had to scale the boost back to 1.65 bar

We may use a piggy back in the map you like you are for 2 bar kill file for races and track days.

Although we didn’t see much maf growth between 1.65 bar and 2 bar maybe 10g/s or so

[Mars2]

I'm finally back in France after 2 month lock down in Thailand my tuner has may be some time for me next weekend.
Will see what he can do.

I saw your post very intresting MAF result.

[Del Mar]

I'm finally back in France after 2 month lock down in Thailand my tuner has may be some time for me next weekend.
Will see what he can do.

I saw your post very intresting MAF result.

I am following your thread closely as I believe that I can put down some good power on my IHI JH5 turbo.

I'm running the HPA stage 1 software and I'm surprised how easily I've gapped a few off the shelf tuned Golfs & TTS, a Camaro a couple of time but that really doesn't count.

I'm really interested in Auto Slalom & time attack competition and the occasional 1320 here in Canada, so the peak hp# doesn't really matter as much as the delivery & drivability.

Crank #'s & WHP's don't really paint the whole picture, because if that was the case I should have lost a bunch of the "tests" I participated in.

I really like the detailed research you've put into this concept & thread, so thank you. Hopefully, I get the chance to upgrade the turbines on my IHI JH5 before getting the HPA stage 2 tune & their IM + DP.

Merci Mars2, bonne journée

[Jezza]

Bumping this again for good info. Mars did you boom your engine? With the amount of boost and the length of time between posts it seems like its either that or the covid got you. Please let us know.

[bb-tt]

Mars is back on road with
mabo injectors

[Mars2]

I had a few bad luck issue.

First I broke the wheel trigger that give position of crank to ECU
240045

Then I bought an engine with only 5000km on from 2014 but it had the weak valve spring so I was experiencing valve float above 5500rpm.
So had to take out the head out to put Bar-Tek uprate valve spring
https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/20l-tsi-valve-springs-set-titanium
I also took the opportunity to put high boost APR head stud.
https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/stud-bolt-cylinder-head-high-boost-arp-2-0-l-tfsi-tsi

Now it's back on the road with new valve spring and Mabotech injector pulling hard.
My tuner here in France also manage after WPT but with winols to go around the 24psi MED17 limit.

It was very nice to get talk and idea from BB-tt and WPT in the process of getting back on the road
👍🤙🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I will go back to Dyno when temp cool down in fall.

[Mars2]

I bought a new engine the following reason:
- It was a bargain 5000km engine and gearbox with harness and all accessories,injector, probe, sensor........ was only missing the turbo. For 2400 Euro
- At that moment I did not know yet 100%sure what was broken in my engine. It just would not start.
- Swaping engine by myself took only 2.5 day so it was short time off the road.

But then it got more complicated with the valve float trouble.
First set of bad Mabotech injector.
Mabotech injector stolen in package by French post service.........

[Nano909]

I had a few bad luck issue.

First I broke the wheel trigger that give position of crank to ECU
240045

Then I bought an engine with only 5000km on from 2014 but it had the weak valve spring so I was experiencing valve float above 5500rpm.
So had to take out the head out to put Bar-Tek uprate valve spring
https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/20l-tsi-valve-springs-set-titanium
I also took the opportunity to put high boost APR head stud.
https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/stud-bolt-cylinder-head-high-boost-arp-2-0-l-tfsi-tsi

Now it's back on the road with new valve spring and Mabotech injector pulling hard.
My tuner here in France also manage after WPT but with winols to go around the 24psi MED17 limit.

It was very nice to get talk and idea from BB-tt and WPT in the process of getting back on the road
👍🤙🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I will go back to Dyno when temp cool down in fall.

Who'd have known that our garage tuner actually knows his stuff. Glad you're back on the road.

[flowhigh]

I'm finally back in France after 2 month lock down in Thailand my tuner has may be some time for me next weekend.
Will see what he can do.

I saw your post very intresting MAF result.

Not to derail, but just a fellow A4 point of view of Thailand. How do you like it?? I'm thinking of early retirement/expating to there..

[bb-tt]

Not to derail, but just a fellow A4 point of view of Thailand. How do you like it?? I'm thinking of early retirement/expating to there..

I love thailand but haven't been in years. my old neighbor from Florida has 3 houses there spends half the year there half in states

[Mars2]

When their was No covid I spend 6 to 8 time a year 2 week in Thailand and my wife is Thai. So that is aout 3 to 4 month divided in 2 week session.
I do that since 1999
But I could never live their because:

- Military Junta. No democracy. No freedom of speech
- Hardest lese majesty law in the world. Rule 112. Just jocking of the dog of the king can get you 10 year in jail.
- People are brain washed since child hood to accepte their social level and the above thing i mention. Lucky my wife is kind fo a revolution people in her country very few of those. but new generation is getting better. it's harder to brainwash them with access to internet.
- You will always be a Farang (Farang = foreigner)
- horrible weather it's raining most of the year ( May to November). it's too hot to do any outdoor sport most of the year. December to Marsh are the only month were it's nice with cool night's and sunny hot day's
- No good wine or at crazy expensive price. I'm French I need good wine daily 😀
- No Music and art scene excepted main stream Thai music. ZERO underground music concert
- No windsurf ( no wind and wave)
- very little opportunity to surf just a few month per year in Phuket
- No downhill Montain bike track
- No SKI 😀😀😀 obviously
- Car's are crazy expensive 200% of tax on them.Don't even think of buying an Audi for less than 100K$ Only affordable car are small diesel pickup truck 2 door( no taxe on those as it is working tool)
- 95% of the girl are gold digger. Farang is social level elevator. Like they say mary faring and become Hi-SO ( high social level) HI-So think they are higher than rest of the people.
- No health care. I come from country where you get full health care for free and school and university is also free.
- you can never own your house because you are a Farang ( foreigner are not allowed to own land) you can only own a Flat, condominium if in that building 51% of the flat are owned by Thai's
...........

On the plus side:
- Cheap living
- excellente food. I love Thai food
- beautiful beach with Zero waves 😢
- Driving in Thailand is very exiting. it's no rule you can do almost what ever you want but other also so you have to be 100% wake up and concentrate full time.
Anything is possible to happen in front of you at any time. Until now you can drive as fast as you want. I often take in the morning this highway that is not finished to build so it's gravel road at 160 to 200KM/H ( 100 to130 MPH) with my tuned up Toyota pick truck RWD. ton's of fun to go the factory.
I love that. it's like driving in France 30 year ago. You will need to get use to drive on the opposite side. RHD car's

My wife own a beautiful house with big garden and swimming pool in luxury village in Thailand ( she has some money and high level study). But I'm so happy any time we leave that place.
It's not made for me. I miss everything I like in life when in Thailand.
But for some other's it can be a dream land.
Fro exemple if you don't care of the politic of the country you are in and don't care to give your money to a military dictator, like to have servant people, play golf, don't like music scene, like to spend lazy day's....

[bb-tt]

Yeah i guess there is a difference between living there and and visiting a few weeks at a time. But as Mars said Thai food is some of the best in the world and they are some of the friendliest people i have met while traveling. Really if you are considering you should go visit a couple towns figure out which one you like and stay there for a couple months. Chaing Mai, udon tani, surat thani, and pattaya and even bangkok were all nice places to visit. But yeah it can get oppressively hot, the rain and heat didn't really bother me as i was coming from the Philippines and then Okinawa at the time. Not sure on house ownership i know my old neighbor had 3 houses there maybe they are in his family's name or maybe the laws have changed pretty sure he has had the houses since the 80s. We used to joke he originally made his money by importing crops from Thailand.

[Mars2]

I Forgot something and just got it back to my mind.
You USA guy's have the treaty of amenity with Thailand something from the war of vietnam if I remember good.
this allow you to have the majority of share in a business in Thailand when us ROW people can max get 49% of the share.
So you could create a company were you have majority of share that own the house for you.

[Mars2]

This company in Greece does a IHI JH5 Hybrid.
https://www.r-tmg.com/ihi-400.html
They quote it for 400 CHP
It's pretty cheap 580 Euro before VAT if you send your turbo. You will not pay VAT if you are not european. And you can pay without VAT if you own a European company with EU VAT number.

According to the email they sent me.
They use the original AUDI B8 44/52mm 7blade mixed flow turbine IHI JH5
the compressor wheel - 60,6 exducer / inducer 47 extend tip 64.07mm so a bit bigger than mine RS6 wheel.
Look like a VF22 compressor wheel from SUBARU STI. those can make 400CHP or 320 TO 340 WHP 4wheel drive. If the turbine side can handle the compressor.

[Mars2]

this one is a IHI JH5 Hybrid for the B8
I like the cream ball bearing!

I have emailed them about the size's of three turbine and compressor wheel.
hope they will answer me.

https://www.turbosystems.info/product-page/audi-volkswagen-2-0tfsi-upgrade-turbocharger

those guy's sell Turbosystems for B9 in USA maybe they know about the one for B8
https://www.emdauto.com/products/turbo-systems-b9-a4-s5-hybrid-turbocharger-upgrade-450-hp?_pos=5&_sid=9fe522162&_ss=r&variant=32621809664088

[Nano909]

this one is a IHI JH5 Hybrid for the B8
I like the cream ball bearing!

I have emailed them about the size's of three turbine and compressor wheel.
hope they will answer me.

https://www.turbosystems.info/product-page/audi-volkswagen-2-0tfsi-upgrade-turbocharger

those guy's sell Turbosystems for B9 in USA maybe they know about the one for B8
https://www.emdauto.com/products/turbo-systems-b9-a4-s5-hybrid-turbocharger-upgrade-450-hp?_pos=5&_sid=9fe522162&_ss=r&variant=32621809664088

Why are you ignoring me?

[Mars2]

Why are you ignoring me?

?????

[bb-tt]

Why are you ignoring me?


?????


lol, do you miss ross nano?

[Nano909]

?????

Check your messages lol

[Del Mar]

This company in Greece does a IHI JH5 Hybrid.
https://www.r-tmg.com/ihi-400.html
They quote it for 400 CHP
It's pretty cheap 580 Euro before VAT if you send your turbo. You will not pay VAT if you are not european. And you can pay without VAT if you own a European company with EU VAT number.

According to the email they sent me.
They use the original AUDI B8 44/52mm 7blade mixed flow turbine IHI JH5
the compressor wheel - 60,6 exducer / inducer 47 extend tip 64.07mm so a bit bigger than mine RS6 wheel.
Look like a VF22 compressor wheel from SUBARU STI. those can make 400CHP or 320 TO 340 WHP 4wheel drive. If the turbine side can handle the compressor.Hello Atlas,
Thank you for your email and your interest in our products,
Unfortunately, this turbo is not available anymore,
Hope sometime in the future have a product that fits your needs,
Have a nice day,
Best Regards,
Stefania Kr
image
Professional tuning and parts
www.r-tmg.com
https://www.facebook.com/RTMGperformance/
Thessaloniki & Athens
Greece


I just thought I would share this. @Mars2

The IHI-JH5 turbo hybrid is no longer available. It's a shame because I saw it as a possible solution for staying stage 2 tune with an upgraded turbo.


I'm going to rebuild my IHI-JH5 with a new thrust bearing, stock sized billet wheel & piston style wastegate actuator with mambatek parts.


I think that in the future a good option for turbo upgrade with better than K04 spool would be a GTX2867R K04-064 Ball Bearing Turbo from MAMBATEK TURBO.

I'm interested in your thoughts.

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