Crankcase Pressure Regulating Valve Faulty?

[Saugrim]

Just brought my 2012 Audi A6 3.0T to an independent shop for diagnosis on an evaporation system leak. They did a smoke test and claimed they were unable to find the source of the 'very small leak' and then claimed that the only thing they could think of was that my Crankcase Pressure Regulating Valve was faulty. I just wanted to see what you guys might think before I dump the $1,200.00 on a replacement part. (Since it requires removing the Supercharger to get at it.)


Tuesday,29,January,2019,10:34:44:25898
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64) HEX-V2 CB: 0.4437.4
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: REDACTED License Plate:
Mileage: 141428km-87879mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: FC-AU57 (4G0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 0E 10 13 15 16 17 19 36 3B 3C 42 44 46 52
53 55 56 5F 62 6C 72 85 8B 8E 8F 90

VIN: WAUGGAFC8CN064972 Mileage: 141428km-87879miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
3B-Sensor Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
3C-Lane Change -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
85-On Board Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
8B-Adaptive Cruise 2 -- Status: OK 0000
8E-Image Processing -- Status: OK 0000
8F-Pretens. Frt Left -- Status: OK 0000
90-Pretens. Frt Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CGXB) Labels:. 06E-907-551-CGW.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 907 551 A HW: 4G0 907 551 A
Component: 3.0l V6 TFSIH07 0010
Revision: --H07---
Coding: 0A2A0032056600060000
Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM30TFS0214G0907551A 003011
ROD: EV_ECM30TFS0214G0907551A_003.rod
VCID: 270BF8176F6B469FFF7-8072

5 Faults Found:
10327 - Fuel Level too Low
P1250 00 [040] - -
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 140971 km
Date: 2019.01.20
Time: 11:07:42

Engine speed: 1133.00 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 62 km/h
Coolant temperature: 83 °C
Intake air temperature: -9 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.624 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 27
Engine speed: actual: 128 /min
MAF_ENVD: 0.00000 mg/stroke
Coolant temperature (unfiltered): -12.00 °C
Engine: operating status: ST
Battery voltage: 9.750000 V
Vehicle speed: actual: 0 km/h

6431 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
P2237 00 [104] - Pump Current Open Circuit
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 140971 km
Date: 2019.01.20
Time: 11:07:41

Engine speed: 1068.00 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 57 km/h
Coolant temperature: 84 °C
Intake air temperature: -3 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.523 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 30
Engine speed: actual: 1152 /min
MAF_ENVD: 76.25882 mg/stroke
Coolant temperature (unfiltered): 86.25 °C
Engine: operating status: PUC
Engine load: 0.000000 %
STATE_LS_ENVD[1]: 4

6433 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1
P2240 00 [104] - Pump Current Open Circuit
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 140620 km
Date: 2019.01.09
Time: 10:39:51

Engine speed: 1048.00 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 70 km/h
Coolant temperature: 84 °C
Intake air temperature: -4 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.523 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 33
Engine speed: actual: 1184 /min
MAF_ENVD: 65.36470 mg/stroke
Coolant temperature (unfiltered): 78.75 °C
Engine: operating status: PUC
Engine load: 0.000000 %
STATE_LS_ENVD[1]: 4

6209 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
P1127 00 [032] - System too Rich
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 140724 km
Date: 2019.01.13
Time: 12:21:14

Engine speed: 704.00 /min
Normed load value: 16.9 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 92 °C
Intake air temperature: 19 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.523 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 12
Engine speed: actual: 672 /min
MAF_ENVD: 157.96470 mg/stroke
Coolant temperature (unfiltered): 92.25 °C
Engine: operating status: IS
T_AST_ENVD: 1130.80 s
STATE_LS_ENVD[1]: 2

9662 - EVAP System
P0456 00 [237] - Very Small Leak Detected
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 136129 km
Date: 2018.09.21
Time: 09:32:02

Engine speed: 985.00 /min
Normed load value: 25.9 %
Vehicle speed: 5 km/h
Coolant temperature: 21 °C
Intake air temperature: 21 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.101 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
CTR_NR_DIAG_SMALL_LEAK_NVLD: 12
CTR_NR_DIAG_TGT_NVLD: 4
CTR_NR_RESP_REP_COMC_NVLD_ENVD: 226
Ambient temperature: -2.25 °C
AMP_ENVD: 987.0352 hPa
FTL_CAN: 74 l

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels:| 4G0-820-043-2Z.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 820 043 N HW: 4G0 820 043 N
Component: KLIMA 2 ZONEN H10 0062
Serial number: 30091100040065
Coding: 668120180C
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirCondiBasisUDS 002037
ROD: EV_AirCondiBasisUDS_002.rod
VCID: 2A0D01237C797BF7E09-807E

1 Fault Found:
0251 - Air Blower
B10BE 12 [009] - Short to Plus
[Frischluftgebläsemotor V2 Front: Kurzschluß nach Plus]
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 42
Reset counter: 75
Mileage: 141363 km
Date: 2019.01.29
Time: 02:27:00

Voltage terminal 30: 12.91 V
Outside air temperature: -18.5 °C
Recirculation air flap motor: actual value: 100 %
Fresh air flap motor: actual value: 0 %
Vehicle speed: 0.00 km/h


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 4H0-907-063-V1.clb
Part No SW: 4H0 907 063 BG HW: 4H0 907 063
Component: BCM1 2.0 H12 0100
Revision: 11012002 Serial number: 00000001074370
Coding: 06002011463C8FE08100088380003908CF9CD208A209012100 0004402000
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
VCID: 6E85CD33809157D77C1-803A

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 4G1 955 119 HW: 4G8 955 119 Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: WWS57X 110918 H35 0051
Serial number: 110923181110
Coding: 0045F7

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 955 559 HW: 8K0 955 559 Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
Component: RLS H04 0003
Serial number: 11707450
Coding: 02512B

Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 4G0 941 531 D HW: 4G0 941 531 D
Component: E1 - LDS H07 0044
Serial number: 26 09 2011 00000578

Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 4G0 907 410 A HW: 4H0 907 410 A
Component: USHL4.2 H30 0030
Serial number: 0000002274555R0P8602

Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 4G0 907 658 A HW: 4G0 907 658 A
Component: Humidity_Sens H02 0002
Serial number: 08388DC5000000000001

1 Fault Found:
01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
013 - Check DTC Memory
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101101
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 39
Reset counter: 75
Mileage: 141363 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.01.29
Time: 02:27:00


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg (J428) Labels:| 4H0-907-561.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 907 561 HW: 4G0 907 561
Component: ACC3 H15 0160
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 3601010202
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_AdaptCruisContrAU57X 001003
ROD: EV_AdaptCruisContrAU57X_001.rod
VCID: 678BB817AFEB869F3F7-8032

1 Fault Found:
10240 - Sensor for Automatic Distance Control
C110B F0 [008] - Limited Visibility
[FAULT_BLR_BLK8_31]
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 115
Mileage: 120467 km
Date: 2018.03.05
Time: 16:44:57

Control Module temperature: 17 °C
Voltage terminal 15: 13.960 V
Velocity_vehicle_reference: 10.38 m/s
Longitudinal_acceleration_vehicle_reference: 0.35 m/s²


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 46: Central Conv. (J393) Labels:. 4H0-907-064-46.clb
Part No SW: 4H0 907 064 BC HW: 4H0 907 064 BC
Component: BCM2 2.0 H31 0330
Revision: 00002001 Serial number: 0159693523
Coding: 0106023A00FA448483B0080002050000000000000000000000 0000000000
Shop #: WSC 02311 785 00200
VCID: 6B83C427B383A2FF5BF-803E

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 4G0 959 719 HW: 4G0 959 719
Component: GTO BF H01 0070
Serial number: 00000000000000052020

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HO H05 1501

Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 7P5 959 591 HW: 4H0 959 591
Component: J245 PS40.033 H07 0006
Serial number: WOO1361211W
Coding: 101F00

1 Fault Found:
01699 - Motor for Central Locking; Hatch/Trunk (V53)
009 - Open or Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 67
Mileage: 139008 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.12.11
Time: 17:04:36

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794) Labels:. 4E0-035-6xx-5F.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 035 746 H HW: 4G0 035 746
Component: H-BNT-NA H48 0902
Revision: -------- Serial number: 031JV0B7516290
Coding: 050200000003E8EF75128F1E00000003100001000000000000
Shop #: WSC 29719 002 104857
VCID: 2C01073B760D65C7125-8078

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8R0 060 884 AD
Component: NAR 2011 0505

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 4G0 919 605 A HW: 4G0 919 605 A
Component: DU8 C7 SV H42 0021
Serial number: AUZ8ZDB1301S9X2

Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 4G1 919 610 C HW: 4G1 919 610 A
Component: E380 BDT C7 H08 0204
Serial number: 90349KIT0006P

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8R0 060 961 B
Component: CD-Database 3371

1 Fault Found:
03157 - Functionality limited due to Communications Disruption
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 115
Mileage: 141399 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.01.29
Time: 09:44:24

Freeze Frame:
Bin. Bits: 00001000 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam. Labels: 4H0-907-441.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 907 441 B HW: 4H0 907 441
Component: SG Rueckfahrkamera 0061
Revision: --H04--- Serial number: 525 PA8J19G18P
Coding: 1080004
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
VCID: 2615F51364E15F97C41-8072

1 Fault Found:
02203 - Audio / Video Input 1
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 36
Mileage: 127335 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.05.26
Time: 16:39:30

Freeze Frame:
Term 15 On
Reverse OFF
Count: 3


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Those are the codes my engine is spitting out. They said those codes seemed to indicate a Crankcase Pressure Regulating Valve issue.

Thanks for any help,
Saugrim

[ryanj]

I think you need to find a new shop if they want to replace the PCV valve for an evap leak fault. Have they checked the purge regulator valve? These are common and will create an internal evap leak that a smoke test will not show. This could also possibly explain the rich code.

[jrp916]

I have the evap very small leak not sure if it’s the same code number. I don’t have a check engine light on, I only knew about it because we did a programming change. Tuner shop wasn’t concerned with it.

I recently noticed that you are suppose to turn the gap cap until it clicks 3 times, my gas cap doesn’t click so I was going to buy a new one and try that first, haven’t done it yet.


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[Saugrim]

I think you need to find a new shop if they want to replace the PCV valve for an evap leak fault. Have they checked the purge regulator valve? These are common and will create an internal evap leak that a smoke test will not show. This could also possibly explain the rich code.

Just called the shop and they claimed that would show up on a smoke test and would throw a code most likely, but considering the difference in cost between this and a crankcase pressure regulating valve I imagine it's at least worth checking.

[Saugrim]

I have the evap very small leak not sure if it’s the same code number. I don’t have a check engine light on, I only knew about it because we did a programming change. Tuner shop wasn’t concerned with it.

I recently noticed that you are suppose to turn the gap cap until it clicks 3 times, my gas cap doesn’t click so I was going to buy a new one and try that first, haven’t done it yet.


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I actually had no idea about the 'click 3 times' thing, I'll have to give that a try as I usually wait for a single click.

[Saugrim]

I think you need to find a new shop if they want to replace the PCV valve for an evap leak fault. Have they checked the purge regulator valve? These are common and will create an internal evap leak that a smoke test will not show. This could also possibly explain the rich code.

Everybody I've talked to shop-wise is saying that these symptoms seem to indicate that it's the PCV valve. One guy went so far as to say that the N80 valve doesn't fail very often on the newer Audi's? (My old A4 B7 had the N80 fail though and the PCV lol)

Edit: Been doing some digging and apparently there have been issues with the NVLD Switch? Apparently Audi even extended the warranty to 10yrs/120000mi as a result on certain 2011 - 2015 motors? Could this at all be a possible culprit?
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-sq5-mki-8r-discussion-129/extended-warranty-nvld-pressure-switch-2911383/ : https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/765186-2012-A6-3-0t-CEL-P0456?highlight=purge+valve

[Alister]

PCV will make a whistling/squealing noise, maybe even without registering any fault codes.

[Chris@EPL]

Probably should address all of those S1 o2 codes as that sensor controls all of your fueling.

[Saugrim]

PCV will make a whistling/squealing noise, maybe even without registering any fault codes.

I haven't heard any whistling/squealing noise at all. I watched a few videos that demonstrated that noise, and I can say with 100% certainty that my car is definitely not making that kind of noise lol.
So, I did end up setting up a service appointment with Audi to have them check if it's the NVLD Switch but that leaves me unsure about the fuel rich code... could that have just been a fluke since it's not confirmed or?


Probably should address all of those S1 o2 codes as that sensor controls all of your fueling.

Yeah that would have been my next question. Would that have anything to do with the carbon buildup secondary airports extended warranty deal?
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/555101-Does-this-come-with-every-new-Audi-A-warranty-extension-for-carbon-buildup

[ryanj]

Everybody I've talked to shop-wise is saying that these symptoms seem to indicate that it's the PCV valve. One guy went so far as to say that the N80 valve doesn't fail very often on the newer Audi's? (My old A4 B7 had the N80 fail though and the PCV lol)

Edit: Been doing some digging and apparently there have been issues with the NVLD Switch? Apparently Audi even extended the warranty to 10yrs/120000mi as a result on certain 2011 - 2015 motors? Could this at all be a possible culprit?
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-sq5-mki-8r-discussion-129/extended-warranty-nvld-pressure-switch-2911383/ : https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/765186-2012-A6-3-0t-CEL-P0456?highlight=purge+valve

Do you have any other symptoms? A ruptured PCV valve is going to make the engine run rough, cause a vacuum leak that will make it run leaner and put excessive vacuum on the crankcase.

The evap is its own system and the pressure sensor responsible for setting the fault is located in the fuel system. The PCV system is in no way tied to the evap system other than the evap leak detection pump needs engine vacuum to run and dumps the vapor into the manifold.

The evap leak detection system works by closing off the vent valve at the rear of the vehicle and closing the N80 Purge regulator valve. The LDP then runs pressurizing the fuel tank. The pressure sensor in the fuel system then monitors that pressure when it is running its test. If the sensor sees the pressure drops it will set the evap leak fault code. Depending on how little pressure the system could build up or how fast it dropped will determine if the system sets a fault code for large leak, small leak, or very small leak.

I have never seen that recall for the NVLD sensor nor am I overly familiar with it on this platform, but that could be it.

As the fault code indicates this is a very small leak you are dealing with. I have diagnosed 100's of VW / Audi evap leaks and gave up on smoke tests long ago as I did not find them accurate enough especially on small leaks as much of the common leak points are very well hidden and not something you are going to see without disassembly to some extent. The other thing you need to understand is many of these very small evap leaks are temperature dependent and may not be present all the time. My preferred way of diagnosing the evap system is to run the evap basic settings then start at the purge valve and start isolating the system by pinching off evap hoses with needle nose vice grips. I then work my way back isolating the system until I can get it to pass the basic settings. Once it passes I know the leak was in the section just prior to where it passed and can dig into that area.

That being said I am not the one working on the car. The shop you are at may know something more which is why there are at the PCV valve, but I can tell you I can not see how a faulty PCV valve could in any way set an evap leak code. The PCV valve is never a bad preventative thing to replace though as they are quite failure prone.

[Saugrim]

Do you have any other symptoms? A ruptured PCV valve is going to make the engine run rough, cause a vacuum leak that will make it run leaner and put excessive vacuum on the crankcase.

The evap is its own system and the pressure sensor responsible for setting the fault is located in the fuel system. The PCV system is in no way tied to the evap system other than the evap leak detection pump needs engine vacuum to run and dumps the vapor into the manifold.

The evap leak detection system works by closing off the vent valve at the rear of the vehicle and closing the N80 Purge regulator valve. The LDP then runs pressurizing the fuel tank. The pressure sensor in the fuel system then monitors that pressure when it is running its test. If the sensor sees the pressure drops it will set the evap leak fault code. Depending on how little pressure the system could build up or how fast it dropped will determine if the system sets a fault code for large leak, small leak, or very small leak.

I have never seen that recall for the NVLD sensor nor am I overly familiar with it on this platform, but that could be it.

As the fault code indicates this is a very small leak you are dealing with. I have diagnosed 100's of VW / Audi evap leaks and gave up on smoke tests long ago as I did not find them accurate enough especially on small leaks as much of the common leak points are very well hidden and not something you are going to see without disassembly to some extent. The other thing you need to understand is many of these very small evap leaks are temperature dependent and may not be present all the time. My preferred way of diagnosing the evap system is to run the evap basic settings then start at the purge valve and start isolating the system by pinching off evap hoses with needle nose vice grips. I then work my way back isolating the system until I can get it to pass the basic settings. Once it passes I know the leak was in the section just prior to where it passed and can dig into that area.

That being said I am not the one working on the car. The shop you are at may know something more which is why there are at the PCV valve, but I can tell you I can not see how a faulty PCV valve could in any way set an evap leak code. The PCV valve is never a bad preventative thing to replace though as they are quite failure prone.

Wow, well firstly... thank you for all that information. Honestly I'm a computer guy, I do programming and have always kind of left the realm of mechanical engineering to the experts; so I greatly appreciate your explanation of this.

So, with that said... I have not seen anything myself to indicate that the PCV is in anyway at fault. I remember the symptoms from when it failed twice on my old A4 and I haven't seen anything remotely similar to that with this vehicle. I know the lady at the shop fairly well and she and I spoke a fair bit about it. The ONLY thing she said that she was basing it on was the codes and the TSBs that they follow. She didn't indicate that she had any mechanical reason for thinking that the PCV was at fault, which is why I started researching other explanations.

I'm thinking at this point the best way to proceed would be to let Audi check the NVLD sensor, and if that's not the case... well... I'm not sure. I could have someone check the N80 valve, pay Audi to do the diagnosis, or attempt to find someone else that can check the system without smoke testing it.

[jrp916]

Is your check engine light on?


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[Saugrim]

Is your check engine light on?

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Indeed the MIL light was illuminated due to the small evap leak according to the computer.


9662 - EVAP System
P0456 00 [237] - Very Small Leak Detected
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:

[jrp916]

I have the same code PO456, but under leak detected it says- passive/sporadic so maybe that’s why my MIL is not on.


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