Looks like we have a new TB option

[AudBoost]

Posted on Facebook in the 3.0TFSI Technical Group:


So..... First and Foremost, I want to thank Issam Abed for allowing us at Tampa Autosports to test his Throttle body solutution for the 3.0T platform. We made 4 runs today, two before and two after install and below you can see the results.

Here is the important part....
We used a Mustang AWD dyno which was calibrated 09/24/18 at Vortex Performance in Tampa Bay. This Dyno was calibrated by Mustang so we are 100% confident it is as usual the heartbreaker that we are looking for. This dyno will read approx. 10-12% lower than any other dyno so the data we gain is reportable without question. We also as always do our due diligence and use the figures entered exactly vs being inflated or altered.

Power at 50 - 13.4
Vehicle weight - 3800
3.0 displacement
4 cyl stroke
Shell 93 oct Vpower Nitro
GIAC DP tune (Old revision)
pump map confirmed with tune switcher
Wheel diameter is 19" with 255/35/19 Michelin tires
Redline set to 7k - vehicle was run to 6500 max RPM

Ambient air temp in the Dyno was 101* F and average Florida temp currently is 94* ambient.
The vehicle was run twice with stock throttle body and twice with Issam Abed new solution installed.
The first picture below is max power at 392.8 WHP/ 379.9 WTQ.

We then literally just threw this throttle body on this car without any adaptaition or anything , did not allow the car to sit longer then the amount of time to swap throttle bodies ( maybe 15 mins) and made two susequent passes.

Max Hp gain with the upgraded Throttle body was 401.3 WHP / 376.5 WTQ at what we considered heatsoaked substantially.
This solution provided 8.5 WHP in the exact same conditions as base test with literally no planning other than slapping it on.
We all know these cars like adaptation and run time etc. We wanted to show what just slapping in on would do.

If this car was run on MS109 as it was on prev. power peak and better conditions, with time to sit and cool , the gains would be substantially more.

I have to give credit where credit is due !! As an engineer and pioneer in the Audi world, Issam Abed has provided a solution that is truly plug and play with no issues, that clearly provides notable gains and does not cripple the user to a specific brand of anything. The craftmanship is as expected ( awesome) and install can be done by a 5 year old. Our intake system was a direct fit with absolutely no modification needed.

Although September 3rd may have passed, his solution and commitment to offering a viable option to this community was spot on and on time.

I am driving this vehicle and logging for the next 5 days to see what more this solution can provide and will be testing this same car next week on the same dyno on race gas for a big dog comparrison.

Well Done Issam Abed, you just gave this community what they have been needing.
Thank you for bringing us along for the ride !!!

- - - Updated - - -

Reply from Issam Abed:

Thanks !
For those bombarding me with PM's just hold tight.

All I will say is the juice was worth the squeeze.
The info page will have the 75mm , 80mm (dodge hemi) ,and 82mm vs the oem.

This will allow users to make an educated choice as to why the 75mm unit is the best unit for 95% of the enthusiasts in here.

I wont say more other than watch out (and share the product page when it is up) and use the promocode

[evil35r]

Hell yes guess I know what I’m getting next

[GID]

Awesome! It must be getting to that time of the year!

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[whiped]

Well I was doing good about not dumping more into my money pit...

I'll throw some data up once I have it and do back to back pulls with the TB vs my ported stock one [up]

Good work Issam

[EvanDoel]

Glad to see the post made it to AZ !!! Thanks Audboost for posting it up !!!

[Bartlett]

Any thoughts yet on the anticipated WHP gains without heatsoak?

Also RIP existing and future TB solutions...this constitutes a first-mover IMO and if the price is right, Issam wins.

[whiped]

Any thoughts yet on the anticipated WHP gains without heatsoak?

Also RIP existing and future TB solutions...this constitutes a first-mover IMO and if the price is right, Issam wins.

WHP will depend heavily on your other mods IMO.

On my car, it should show some solid gains as the TB is currently the restriction on the intake side.

Without a ported blower, I'd expect minimal gains but much better throttle response.

I guess time will tell.

[B18b1ex]

I’ll ask, how much?


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[waxxonMTL]

Well I was doing good about not dumping more into my money pit...

I'll throw some data up once I have it and do back to back pulls with the TB vs my ported stock one [up]

Good work Issam

if the 75mm is good for 95%. then how large is the stock one ? I guess very similar to 75mm. Might not be worth it.

[whiped]

I believe stock OD 68-70mm, so ~ 6mm? My crude math says like 17% more surface area which is pretty significant.

idk, we'll let the data talk once we have it.

[PeteRock]

Awesome news and congrats to Issam!

No tune needed?


Pete

[Bartlett]

I believe stock OD 68-70mm, so ~ 6mm? My crude math says like 17% more surface area which is pretty significant.

idk, we'll let the data talk once we have it.

80mm = (Assuming stock is 70mm diameter) 28% increase in cross-sectional area...75mm sounds like it could be about 17%

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/824631-Stock-Throttle-Body-CFM-Flow-Question?p=13267875&viewfull=1#post13267875

That might give ideas about restrictions

[cspcrx]

Does this work with any tune?

[Brother Owl]

Universal plug-and-play?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/5bb2c441cdd08dfa1619294f0346ef36.gif

[jimrobbington]

Well I was doing good about not dumping more into my money pit...

I'll throw some data up once I have it and do back to back pulls with the TB vs my ported stock one [up]

Good work IssamYusss I was hoping you'd be the first to test it with 034.
Does this work with any tune?
Universal plug-and-play?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/5bb2c441cdd08dfa1619294f0346ef36.gifSupposedly, and based on Evan's testing, yes.

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[Gkit19986]

Depends how much it is, I'm planning to go DP, Uprade cooling at the same time.

[jimrobbington]

Depends how much it is, I'm planning to go DP, Uprade cooling at the same time.It'll be far cheaper than any bullshit apr ultracharger

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[whiped]

Yusss I was hoping you'd be the first to test it with 034. Supposedly, and based on Evan's testing, yes.

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We'll see what happens when I get my hands on it. Hopefully it works and hopefully, Nate is willing to tweak some tunes to make it work better. (I haven't exactly asked yet lol)

I'm looking forward to the updates from Evan over the coming days :)

[jimrobbington]

We'll see what happens when I get my hands on it. Hopefully it works and hopefully, Nate is willing to tweak some tunes to make it work better. (I haven't exactly asked yet lol)

I'm looking forward to the updates from Evan over the coming days :)Samesies!

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[DBFL]

I was going to post this with pictures, but apparently tapatalk doesn’t allow me to upload anymore.

Keep in mind that today was just proof of concept. It was 95 degrees outside today, so the conditions were terrible.
Also, the car wasn’t given any time to adapt. It was two pulls with the stock TB, then the Issam’s TB was installed and two more pulls. Heat soak would have been a major factor. I’ll be bringing the car back to the same dyno once it’s not as hot out.

I’d also like to compare the results to a tune that accounts for the ported supercharger and the larger throttle body. That should happen soon enough.

I’ll post updates over the next few days as I drive the car a bit.

[Bikel]

sub'd

[RWD2quattro]

Very nice, dang it, now I have to buy this 😁
When can I place an order?

[Rodizzle]

Sub’d



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[DBFL]

Very nice, dang it, now I have to buy this 😁
When can I place an order?

That’s a question for Issam, and he hasn’t given a specific date yet. I still have to do a bunch of logging first. I guess the S4 will be my daily for the next couple weeks.

[bajan01]

I believe stock OD 68-70mm, so ~ 6mm? My crude math says like 17% more surface area which is pretty significant.

idk, we'll let the data talk once we have it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180927/43f282a60cbbfed6266faa07853a2bab.jpg

Yeah, the 76mm TB would be 17.9% greater surface area than the factory 70mm TB.

[Gkit19986]

It'll be far cheaper than any bullshit apr ultracharger

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I went with EPL, I recently went wit stg2 and getting used to the power . So DP, cooling ,porting the charger and bigger throttle body will be all it for me as long as I own the car.

[brs2c]

It would be nice to see pulls going over 7k, too.


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[Wazzap1101]

Sub'd. Only concern is how folks who have throttle body spacers with wm have to change their setup. Def will need a new spacer

2013 B8.5 S5
GIAC DP and DSG tune - 57/187mm
AEM WM Injection, unbranded intake, Merc HX

[97B518TQM]

While I believe in continuous innovation and improvements on any platform and in any component group in cars I still have a hard time understanding how the stock TB, which seems to be 68-70mm diameter, is the bottle neck. The reason I am saying this is my previous experience with my B5 S4. I had no problem making over 580whp on it with the stock TB, which was 70mm. How is the stock TB a limiting factor when people are barely making over 400whp on the B8 platform? Please forgive my ignorance if it seems that way. I am just trying to make sense out of this. To clarify, I am well aware that the boost my turbos were producing was much higher than our SCs produce even at redline. I guess in a way I am answering my own question but in that case are we simply allowing more air at low pressure to alleviate an underperforming SC...

[TheAsset]

I wish the car would've been given a chance to cool down or get back to the same temperatures the first 2 pulls were made on.

[EvanDoel]

There is room to create a provision in the adaptor for WM without making any changes

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[EvanDoel]

Just curious as to why? We wanted to show a worst case scenario for testing vs a best case. There is way too much fluff and snake oil thrown at customers these days to buy products which are tested in non real world conditions and the immediately followed by disappointment. I would way rather give you the worst case on gains and show how they improve with x,y,z then make or support empty promises that never deliver for anyone other than the people testing.

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[RWD2quattro]

That’s a question for Issam, and he hasn’t given a specific date yet. I still have to do a bunch of logging first. I guess the S4 will be my daily for the next couple weeks.
Thanks bro, please keep us posted and share what you see/feel good or bad.

[P1Racer]

Awesome!!


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[DBFL]

While I believe in continuous innovation and improvements on any platform and in any component group in cars I still have a hard time understanding how the stock TB, which seems to be 68-70mm diameter, is the bottle neck. The reason I am saying this is my previous experience with my B5 S4. I had no problem making over 580whp on it with the stock TB, which was 70mm. How is the stock TB a limiting factor when people are barely making over 400whp on the B8 platform? Please forgive my ignorance if it seems that way. I am just trying to make sense out of this. To clarify, I am well aware that the boost my turbos were producing was much higher than our SCs produce even at redline. I guess in a way I am answering my own question but in that case are we simply allowing more air at low pressure to alleviate an underperforming SC...

Barely over 400whp? My car has produced 487 and 485 whp on two different Mustang dynos. Those were when it was 30 degrees cooler outside and on 105 octane. So we’re definitely well past 400. I’d expect to see over 500 whp with 105 octane once it cools down to the low 70s again.

Also, the SC inlet on my car has been ported to about 75mm. So a 70mm throttle body is absolutely a bottleneck.


I wish the car would've been given a chance to cool down or get back to the same temperatures the first 2 pulls were made on.

This was just to see if the larger TB works and if there was any gain. We will be going back to the dyno for proper testing once any necessary fine tuning is complete, and when it’s not 100 degrees at the dyno.

[bhvrdr]

Thanks for posting this. Do you happe ln to have the dyno numbers and charts for all 4 runs. Be interested to see how the car behaved on it.

Mike

[Loe]

this is great stuff! Now we will have other cars trapping beyond 125mph on the TVS1320 [up]

[PeteRock]

I heard from Issam a few months back that cost is likely to be 1/2 what APR charges for the Ultracharger so I’m curious to see where final pricing lands

Should be really interesting if IE also releases their 90mm Throttle Body as mentioned

I’m still a little thrown off by the plug n play piece because as many of you know an UC car will not run unless the specific UC Tune is installed

Not complaining at all but I’m definitely curious as to what makes these TBs proprietary? Is it the mounting/adapter harness?


Pete

[Gberg888]

subbed

[Chibo]

Hopefully when TB is released we have data on stage 2 too and not only on DP.

[Tony@EPL]

Watch for a post in the EPL owners thread and sales thread soon. We have been testing for 2-3 months and shipped kits as recently as yestday! Our gains were higher when paired with a new ECU calibration.

[jimrobbington]

I heard from Issam a few months back that cost is likely to be 1/2 what APR charges for the Ultracharger so I’m curious to see where final pricing lands

Should be really interesting if IE also releases their 90mm Throttle Body as mentioned

I’m still a little thrown off by the plug n play piece because as many of you know an UC car will not run unless the specific UC Tune is installed

Not complaining at all but I’m definitely curious as to what makes these TBs proprietary? Is it the mounting/adapter harness?


PeteThis is due to the way APR does business. They don't want you to use their parts with other tuners products

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[PeteRock]

This is due to the way APR does business. They don't want you to use their parts with other tuners products

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Yes I understand that but if there is nothing proprietary about these TBs and or there is no tune required then we would all find out which TB they used and source it on our own for less money......something has to make the product hard to if not impossible to replicate

I don’t like or agree with the way that APR does business but any company that wants to make money would need to do something to protect their design


Pete

[waxxonMTL]

Watch for a post in the EPL owners thread and sales thread soon. We have been testing for 2-3 months and shipped kits as recently as yestday! Our gains were higher when paired with a new ECU calibration.

:) cool !

[bhvrdr]

I heard from Issam a few months back that cost is likely to be 1/2 what APR charges for the Ultracharger so I’m curious to see where final pricing lands

Should be really interesting if IE also releases their 90mm Throttle Body as mentioned

I’m still a little thrown off by the plug n play piece because as many of you know an UC car will not run unless the specific UC Tune is installed

Not complaining at all but I’m definitely curious as to what makes these TBs proprietary? Is it the mounting/adapter harness?


Pete

Id guess these are $200 parts but there has to be a wiring harness and electrical gizmos that allow it to work plug and play with our tuning as our TB works off a different signal than the common aftermarket ones so i'm guessing they have to do their magic with something in the wiring to get them to be correctly interpreted by our ECU. I dont doubt this can be hacked by folks. Someone with a MUCH better knowledge of electronics will explain this better than me lol

mike

[PeteRock]

Id guess these are $200 parts but there has to be a wiring harness and electrical gizmos that allow it to work plug and play with our tuning as our TB works off a different signal than the common aftermarket ones so i'm guessing they have to do their magic with something in the wiring to get them to be correctly interpreted by our ECU. I dont doubt this can be hacked by folks. Someone with a MUCH better knowledge of electronics will explain this better than me lol

mike

Yep....that’s what I was curious about when they said it was plug n play and can be used with/without a tune


Pete

[Indepth]

Id guess these are $200 parts but there has to be a wiring harness and electrical gizmos that allow it to work plug and play with our tuning as our TB works off a different signal than the common aftermarket ones so i'm guessing they have to do their magic with something in the wiring to get them to be correctly interpreted by our ECU. I dont doubt this can be hacked by folks. Someone with a MUCH better knowledge of electronics will explain this better than me lol

mike

Odds are the analog signal can be scaled up or down to match the OEM analog values in a matched, scaled, relationship. I do this all the time with industrial electronics in the controls industry.

However, as someone that tunes in the GM/Ford/Dodge world - this plug n play method may be more of a cheater method than appropriately dialing in the tune for the increased TB size. Normally, in the tune there's a field called "ETC Scaler" which is the calculated area of the throttle body itself. The ECU uses this field to adjust for measured airflow, which, in turn, trickles down to calculations of fueling, timing, etc... With the signal simply modified and scaled at the TB itself then the ECU isn't accurately measuring the airflow anymore which can cause off calculations and a lack of power as well as a lack of adjusting for environmental changes.

I'd be curious to learn a bit more on HOW this plug and play option is actually functioning before I threw it on my car. But then again, I'm overly anal and read far too much into things because I'm weird and need to know how everything works. ;)

[JD S4]

Stoked to see the EPL results above

I’m a little surprised no one mentioned the decrease in WTQ but as mentioned - worst case scenario with terrible conditions and heatsoak


Sent from my [emoji390]

[bhvrdr]

Odds are the analog signal can be scaled up or down to match the OEM analog values in a matched, scaled, relationship. I do this all the time with industrial electronics in the controls industry.

However, as someone that tunes in the GM/Ford/Dodge world - this plug n play method may be more of a cheater method than appropriately dialing in the tune for the increased TB size. Normally, in the tune there's a field called "ETC Scaler" which is the calculated area of the throttle body itself. The ECU uses this field to adjust for measured airflow, which, in turn, trickles down to calculations of fueling, timing, etc... With the signal simply modified and scaled at the TB itself then the ECU isn't accurately measuring the airflow anymore which can cause off calculations and a lack of power as well as a lack of adjusting for environmental changes.

I'd be curious to learn a bit more on HOW this plug and play option is actually functioning before I threw it on my car. But then again, I'm overly anal and read far too much into things because I'm weird and need to know how everything works. ;)

See I knew someone could explain this ;)



Stoked to see the EPL results above

I’m a little surprised no one mentioned the decrease in WTQ but as mentioned - worst case scenario with terrible conditions and heatsoak


Sent from my [emoji390]

Id really like to see all the dyno runs on a plot. It would help alot in interpretation. Im by no means challenging them but would like to learn from them. Dynos are finicky. I have literally seen my car dyno 25whp differences on the exact same dyno on the same day during the same session making no changes at all. So it would be cool to see this session and even better maybe someone will datalog with the dyno so you can see all the confounding variables at play and make sure they were controlled.


Mike

[Fresh.S4]

Id guess these are $200 parts but there has to be a wiring harness and electrical gizmos that allow it to work plug and play with our tuning as our TB works off a different signal than the common aftermarket ones so i'm guessing they have to do their magic with something in the wiring to get them to be correctly interpreted by our ECU. I dont doubt this can be hacked by folks. Someone with a MUCH better knowledge of electronics will explain this better than me lol

mike

the only thing that comes to mind is frequency manipulation.
they are taking a common signal and changing it to something else.
(probably way off)

A is doing this by means of software tweaks
B is doing this by means of a harness


something basic was just discovered and now the race is on to get the same product out the fastest.
(just like ots tunes)





EDIT/// damnit!! someone beat me to it a few posts up ^^^^^^^^

I think snow performance does this with one of their mkv specific controller boxes, changing the maf signal into something else...

[Indepth]

See I knew someone could explain this ;)


Mike

https://78.media.tumblr.com/46c90e7c0773db2179a0a826be2fe538/tumblr_n3s2eiofbd1saqvcqo1_500.gif

[DBFL]

I just got home from Tampa AutoSports. Unfortunately I was stuck in rush hour traffic the entire way back home. So there isn’t that much to report. It was stop-and-go traffic for most of the drive but also a 70mph cruise over the bridge.

The car performs perfectly in traffic. Drivability is excellent. No weird throttle behavior at all, which is a possibility when changing to a non-OEM electronic throttle body.

I’ll be taking the car out over the weekend for some more spirited driving, so I’ll have more (better) information over the weekend.

[GID]

Which one are you running? 75?
I just got home from Tampa AutoSports. Unfortunately I was stuck in rush hour traffic the entire way back home. So there isn’t that much to report. It was stop-and-go traffic for most of the drive but also a 70mph cruise over the bridge.

The car performs perfectly in traffic. Drivability is excellent. No weird throttle behavior at all, which is a possibility when changing to a non-OEM electronic throttle body.

I’ll be taking the car out over the weekend for some more spirited driving, so I’ll have more (better) information over the weekend.

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[GID]

Also, can you please tell me if it uses a o ring or gasket to seal?

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[evil35r]

Ordered through prebuy whoop!!!

[DBFL]

Also, can you please tell me if it uses a o ring or gasket to seal?

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Gasket

[AdamInKC]

Pre-ordered!

[Rodizzle]

Where do we preorder ?


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[DBFL]

Where do we preorder ?


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Issam posted a link on this Facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/106852433320781/

I’m not sure how to copy the link to the exact post from my iPad (I’m sure I can do it from my PC, but it’s 2:30am and I don’t feel like getting up to turn it on). If you’re not part of that group, you should be able to join and it’ll be one of the top posts.

[killer_s4]

What about us that don’t use FB ?

[Loe]

Odds are the analog signal can be scaled up or down to match the OEM analog values in a matched, scaled, relationship. I do this all the time with industrial electronics in the controls industry.

However, as someone that tunes in the GM/Ford/Dodge world - this plug n play method may be more of a cheater method than appropriately dialing in the tune for the increased TB size. Normally, in the tune there's a field called "ETC Scaler" which is the calculated area of the throttle body itself. The ECU uses this field to adjust for measured airflow, which, in turn, trickles down to calculations of fueling, timing, etc... With the signal simply modified and scaled at the TB itself then the ECU isn't accurately measuring the airflow anymore which can cause off calculations and a lack of power as well as a lack of adjusting for environmental changes.

I'd be curious to learn a bit more on HOW this plug and play option is actually functioning before I threw it on my car. But then again, I'm overly anal and read far too much into things because I'm weird and need to know how everything works. ;)

I would imagine with us being MAP based and our MAF is calculated, deviating too far from the OEM 70mm TB would increase the chances of the calculation being needed. At any rate, products are marketed in a way sometimes to where the end user gets confused, producers will always push the size of what they have available for a sale, so use your best judgement.

...time to ramp mine up to 90mm soon (Aftermarket Hemi replacements) [:D], or simply remove the back side of the shaft on my 80mm Hemi unit which frees up 4mm for "free"

[Tony@EPL]

Stoked to see the EPL results above

I’m a little surprised no one mentioned the decrease in WTQ but as mentioned - worst case scenario with terrible conditions and heatsoak


Sent from my [emoji390]

In our testing... when staying with a conservative size upgrade, there was no lose in torque (in fact there were significant gains). Then going too big, there's no additional peak horse power gains but there as low end losses (pretty significant if you go too big). We tested several sizes btw.

[Indepth]

I would imagine with us being MAP based and our MAF is calculated, deviating too far from the OEM 70mm TB would increase the chances of the calculation being needed. At any rate, products are marketed in a way sometimes to where the end user gets confused, producers will always push the size of what they have available for a sale, so use your best judgement.

...time to ramp mine up to 90mm soon (Aftermarket Hemi replacements) [:D], or simply remove the back side of the shaft on my 80mm Hemi unit which frees up 4mm for "free"

Our MAF is calculated, correct. Which further proves the point that if we're doing analog scaling to match the OEM scalar it has to be done dead nuts on otherwise you'll have inconsistencies.

I'm not sure me as an end user is confused here. I think I'm more 'in-tune' with what is required to run a larger than OEM TB and because of this want to know how exactly the new part is being incorporated to our cars.

I wonder what the diminishing return point of TB sizing is based on CFM... The TVS1320 can only handle so much air into it before you create more problems than power.

[Loe]

Our MAF is calculated, correct. Which further proves the point that if we're doing analog scaling to match the OEM scalar it has to be done dead nuts on otherwise you'll have inconsistencies.

I'm not sure me as an end user is confused here. I think I'm more 'in-tune' with what is required to run a larger than OEM TB and because of this want to know how exactly the new part is being incorporated to our cars.

I wonder what the diminishing return point of TB sizing is based on CFM... The TVS1320 can only handle so much air into it before you create more problems than power.

IE saw some HP gains and no loss in TQ when they tested their 90mm Hemi unit, without any tuning involved (albeit a small gain). I'm curious to see their findings post-tune, which hasn't been published yet as they are still testing their software/hardware.

[RWD2quattro]

Pre-ordered!

Did you ordered the 75mm as per his email?

[Chris@EPL]

This is obviously the most optimistic comparison on base run vs throttle body run.... however we VERY consistently saw 10-12+ whp gains through most of the power band with slightly larger gains past 6500.

http://eplabs.net/pub/Throttlebody_gains.jpg

[Thurston]

IE saw some HP gains and no loss in TQ when they tested their 90mm Hemi unit, without any tuning involved (albeit a small gain). I'm curious to see their findings post-tune, which hasn't been published yet as they are still testing their software/hardware.

No loss of Torque is surprising. On the dyno, Evan at Tampa AutoSports saw a loss w the testing of this TB or a TB option and i believe w the UC you see a loss of torque. Could be interesting.

[Tony@EPL]

No loss of Torque is surprising. On the dyno, Evan at Tampa AutoSports saw a loss w the testing of this TB or a TB option and i believe w the UC you see a loss of torque. Could be interesting.

We tested several different sizes and definitely saw some pretty significant torque losses once you crosses a certain point. Bigger is not better!

This solution is a truly "tuned" size that is a great match for 98% of the cars that are stage 2 or beyond. I have not tested on stage 1 yet, but my guess would be you would be better off upgrading to stage 2 or dual pulley before doing this.

I have a 82mm TB kit in house as well that we will be testing next time we have a car with a "big set up" on the dyno.

[waxxonMTL]

What about us that don’t use FB ?

welcome to 2018 buddy !

[whiped]

https://i.imgur.com/wyTLlCk.jpg

Hmmm... I wonder which one is mine [drool]

[Rodizzle]

https://i.imgur.com/wyTLlCk.jpg

Hmmm... I wonder which one is mine [drool]

The empty box in the bottom left hand corner is mine [emoji846][emoji30][emoji24][emoji23]


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[Adamantium]

Odds are the analog signal can be scaled up or down to match the OEM analog values in a matched, scaled, relationship. I do this all the time with industrial electronics in the controls industry.

However, as someone that tunes in the GM/Ford/Dodge world - this plug n play method may be more of a cheater method than appropriately dialing in the tune for the increased TB size. Normally, in the tune there's a field called "ETC Scaler" which is the calculated area of the throttle body itself. The ECU uses this field to adjust for measured airflow, which, in turn, trickles down to calculations of fueling, timing, etc... With the signal simply modified and scaled at the TB itself then the ECU isn't accurately measuring the airflow anymore which can cause off calculations and a lack of power as well as a lack of adjusting for environmental changes.

I'd be curious to learn a bit more on HOW this plug and play option is actually functioning before I threw it on my car. But then again, I'm overly anal and read far too much into things because I'm weird and need to know how everything works. ;)

I’m new to this, so correct me if I’m wrong but the above is only relevant for cars that run on MAF.

The 3.0TFSi runs on speed density from the factory doesn’t it?

[Whitee]

How do you order this if you don’t have Facebook?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Indepth]

I’m new to this, so correct me if I’m wrong but the above is only relevant for cars that run on MAF.

The 3.0TFSi runs on speed density from the factory doesn’t it?

Almost all boosted cars run on speed density. But the ETC Scalar field is still used in calculations for the tune overall even if the MAF is removed from the equation.

The S4’s MAF is calculated as mentioned above.

[Adamantium]

Posts above confirm this. If running speed density - map sensor based, there is no need to calculate the maf value. The maf value is sensitive to the diameter of the pipe it’s in because the maf oxygen reading is proportional to the cross sectional area. If you change the diameter of the intake pipe (usually same as the throttle body) you need to rescale the maf sensor output.

As I said, we don’t need to do that. A like for like drop in should improve volumetric efficiency which means at the same boost pressure there will be more airflow without more fuel than previously. This will cause the car to run slightly lean. This indicates that the mod has worked but also gives a little power at the expense of some safety net.

You’d do well to also retune slightly to compensate.

Better VE means you can make the same power on less boost or more power on the same boost as before the swap.

FYI, I’ve ordered a 75mm throttle body from Issam for my 2015 CREC engine S5 here in the UK.

[killer_s4]

welcome to 2018 buddy !

Thanks. Now do you have an answer to my question?

[Bartlett]

Is there a verdict yet on the attractiveness of a 75mm TB on a car that doesn't get re-tuned?

[jimrobbington]

I love how some people refuse to Facebook.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[jimrobbington]

How do you order this if you don’t have Facebook?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks. Now do you have an answer to my question?Try contacting issam directly...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180928/4592ba5c38396e07e72995b516c24303.jpg

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[DBFL]

Is there a verdict yet on the attractiveness of a 75mm TB on a car that doesn't get re-tuned?

We didn’t retune my car when testing this. I’m still on a stage 2+ DP tune from GIAC. It picked up 8+ whp after being severely heatsoaked. And that’s with it being over 100 degrees at the dyno. So if we had given the car time to cool back down it would have produced more power.

We will be flashing a tune specifically for a larger throttle body and a porter blower. And we’ll go back to the dyno once we verify that the tune works as expected. Then we’ll test it on MS109 (105 octane).

[killer_s4]

I love how some people refuse to Facebook.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I had it. It consumed too much of my time. I’ve been dedicating the time to certifications I can use for work. Facebook is an addiction to some.

[Bikel]

I love how some people refuse to Facebook.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

don't judge....

[jimrobbington]

don't judge....Hey! At least I provided an answer to the question along with my judgement!

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[Bikel]

that you did! thank you...

[Bartlett]

We didn’t retune my car when testing this. I’m still on a stage 2+ DP tune from GIAC. It picked up 8+ whp after being severely heatsoaked. And that’s with it being over 100 degrees at the dyno. So if we had given the car time to cool back down it would have produced more power.

We will be flashing a tune specifically for a larger throttle body and a porter blower. And we’ll go back to the dyno once we verify that the tune works as expected. Then we’ll test it on MS109 (105 octane).

I see. So practically universally, there are some ~10-15whp gains. But, a re-tune and additional mods can inflate that by a bit, right?

I'd imagine then this same logic applies to SC porting?

[DBFL]

I see. So practically universally, there are some ~10-15whp gains. But, a re-tune and additional mods can inflate that by a bit, right?

I'd imagine then this same logic applies to SC porting?

That’s the theory. We hope to prove it on the dyno in the near future.

[Whitee]

I love how some people refuse to Facebook.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Got me in trouble way too many times...


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[Thurston]

We tested several different sizes and definitely saw some pretty significant torque losses once you crosses a certain point. Bigger is not better!

This solution is a truly "tuned" size that is a great match for 98% of the cars that are stage 2 or beyond. I have not tested on stage 1 yet, but my guess would be you would be better off upgrading to stage 2 or dual pulley before doing this.

I have a 82mm TB kit in house as well that we will be testing next time we have a car with a "big set up" on the dyno.

cool, thanks for the insight Tony and good luck!

[waxxonMTL]

soo... what the butt dyno is saying ? we got dyno feedback, now we want butt dyno feedback haha !

Also, Anyone knows how wide a ported TB is ? I mean, if ported TB goes up to 73mm. then I wonder how much more 2mm could really do ?

[p3u]

soo... what the butt dyno is saying ? we got dyno feedback, now we want butt dyno feedback haha !

Also, Anyone knows how wide a ported TB is ? I mean, if ported TB goes up to 73mm. then I wonder how much more 2mm could really do ?

Apples to oranges.

A ported TB to 73mm still has the stock 68mm butterfly in it, vs the new one with 75mm. Much more than a 2mm difference.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Apples to oranges.

A ported TB to 73mm still has the stock 68mm butterfly in it, vs the new one with 75mm. Much more than a 2mm difference.
[up][up][up]
Even as far back as the 1.8T /2.7TT I have yet to see any gains (that wasn't influenced by marketing) with a ported throttle body.
If you are not changing the throttle plate / increasing the throttle plate diameter then all you are doing is removing casting material for no reason.

68mm on some motors , 70mm on others is a decent jump to 75mm.

[waxxonMTL]

Apples to oranges.

A ported TB to 73mm still has the stock 68mm butterfly in it, vs the new one with 75mm. Much more than a 2mm difference.

See, I didn't knew that. thanks for the clarification! so its quite a huge difference. Could be butt dyno, but I took I noticed an increase in throttle response with the ported TB, moreso when already in 4-5th gear.

[brs2c]

...time to ramp mine up to 90mm soon (Aftermarket Hemi replacements) [:D], or simply remove the back side of the shaft on my 80mm Hemi unit which frees up 4mm for "free"

With the cast inlet to the supercharger being only 2.75”, my understanding is that the 76mm is the magical diameter that negates the area the butterfly takes up.

Therefore, the total area that the air has to flow through is the same through through the throttle body and into the SC inlet.

The 90mm(3.54”) is the size that I used to think would be ideal. HOWEVER, you still have the same 2.75” SC inlet as the bottleneck. You may be able to port the cast inlet a little, and take 1/16th” out all of the way around. But even with that, I don’t see how a huge 3.54” TB next to a ported 2.88” hole will gain.

This new 3” (76mm) TB or APR’s 3.14” (80mm) connecting into the 2.75” (or ported 2.88”) inlet should be plenty large enough.

That being said, there maybe something I am not considering. I would love to see the 90mm make more power, I just don’t see how it will.


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[waxxonMTL]

This is obviously the most optimistic comparison on base run vs throttle body run.... however we VERY consistently saw 10-12+ whp gains through most of the power band with slightly larger gains past 6500.

http://eplabs.net/pub/Throttlebody_gains.jpg

why is it the most optimistic comparaison ?

[Gberg888]

Is this going to blow out cats like the ultra charger?

[brs2c]

Is this going to blow out cats like the ultra charger?

I am sure it won’t help cat longevity, but blowing out the cats has way more to do with the tuning than throttle body size.


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[Adamantium]

Could someone confirm if these aftermarket units have a larger butterfly valve?

[bajan01]

Could someone confirm if these aftermarket units have a larger butterfly valve?

Yes. There’s a bit of taper on both units. I measured the 997 butterfly to be 74mm and the factory butterfly to be 68mm. This gives an increased area of 18.4%, ignoring the shaft diameter etc.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/1b3117c357f40237f719f1a88aeb79cf.jpg

Factory unit on left, Porsche 997 unit on right.

...pic bolted into my car.[emoji12]🤫

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/eb70c29f443aa3faf388a05e7c361700.jpg

[WeeKenny]

So I’d the 997 unit a direct bolt on with no mapping needed?

[bajan01]

So I’d the 997 unit a direct bolt on with no mapping needed?

Not quite. You need an adapter plate and wiring harness...Issam Abed (iAbed Industries, Wizard-of-OD) put together the kits and is selling them. Gains of ~10whp were seen without any change in tune on a GIAC DP tuned S4...heat soaked at that. A remapped tune will produce more.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/2af7c09cc9d94a68a6fbf1baf69b8e92.jpg

[WeeKenny]

Thanks, looks a well put together kit.

[Adamantium]

If od is larger, do you need larger diameter silicon hose to connect up?

[ModItNow]

No boost noodle necessary I guess?

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[jimrobbington]

If od is larger, do you need larger diameter silicon hose to connect up?
No boost noodle necessary I guess?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)There are several people who state their intakes still fit fine with no modification.

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[bajan01]

If od is larger, do you need larger diameter silicon hose to connect up?

Yes. A 3.25” (83mm) silicone hose is what you need. Depending on what intake you have you’ll have to step up or down to the air filter end. I believe that a silicone tube will be included in the kit when fully released. I am running into the factory airbox (modified) so I used a 3.25” 45 degree silicone elbow off of the TB, and then on the airbox side I used a 3.5” to 3.25” 45 degree silicone elbow. These two elbows are joined by a piece of 3.25” aluminum pipe. The factory airbox opening is more like 3.62” so I had to squeeze on the 3.5” elbow but I got it on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/a293bbdfd5139ed53a7e7b55d6ba467a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/d1ed1118a096eac3e875ba448a8d2045.jpg

[Adamantium]

I’ve got an eventuri intake sitting in a box waiting to be installed.

Along with a forge radiator set up, and a 295mm iabed drive pulley and fluid damper.

Was thinking of porting the supercharger at the same time. Probably more fun to do it in stages.

[JD S4]

I’ve got an eventuri intake sitting in a box waiting to be installed.

Along with a forge radiator set up, and a 295mm iabed drive pulley and fluid damper.

Was thinking of porting the supercharger at the same time. Probably more fun to do it in stages.

295. That thing will be a beast. Bet it does 50psi


Sent from my [emoji390]

[p3u]

I’ve got an eventuri intake sitting in a box waiting to be installed.

Along with a forge radiator set up, and a 295mm iabed drive pulley and fluid damper.

Was thinking of porting the supercharger at the same time. Probably more fun to do it in stages.

Damn! And I thought I was a bad ass with my 203mm.

[GID]

Is that a typo?
I’ve got an eventuri intake sitting in a box waiting to be installed.

Along with a forge radiator set up, and a 295mm iabed drive pulley and fluid damper.

Was thinking of porting the supercharger at the same time. Probably more fun to do it in stages.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[bajan01]

Is that a typo?



I guess that somebody must have proven that 2=1. [emoji15]

[Adamantium]

Lol, yes typo! 195!!

[bajan01]

...

[Adamantium]

Can someone explain why anyone would consider an ultracharger when this is an option.

Since it's a plug and play option, is there any reason to consider the UC over this. I have taken a risk by buying this blind, but since I'm not otherwise using any APR stuff, and didn't fancy the idea of an APR only tune, am I right in thinking this is a no brainer? I hope so, since it's looking too late for me anyway, but would like some reassurance that i haven't made a mistake by jumping on the low initial release price.

[bajan01]

Can someone explain why anyone would consider an ultracharger when this is an option.

If you are tuned by APR or any other company for that matter you may run into the issue of having to use their proprietary throttle body/harness with their tune. Yes it has been shown that this is plug and play and gains of 10whp in not so ideal conditions have been shown, non-heatsoaked conditions should produce higher numbers. I installed mine on Friday night and haven’t had any issues whatsoever with it. I even did some datalogging yesterday and all is well there too. Of course to take full advantage of the 18% larger area you will need to have your tune modified and that may be where people will get stuck if your tuning company isn’t willing to do that since you didn’t buy their throttle body.

[Adamantium]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Hopefully won’t have an issue - friendly remapper.

[waxxonMTL]

are all intake at least 75mm ? I'm leaning toward the IE to match the new TB.

[whiped]

are all intake at least 75mm ? I'm leaning toward the IE to match the new TB.

I have the USP intake which goes from 4" and steps down to 3" which will be a restriction.

Thus I am switching to Tampa's intake which is 4" the entire way :)

I bought a silicon adapter to step it down properly.

[cspcrx]

If you are tuned by APR or any other company for that matter you may run into the issue of having to use their proprietary throttle body/harness with their tune. Yes it has been shown that this is plug and play and gains of 10whp in not so ideal conditions have been shown, non-heatsoaked conditions should produce higher numbers. I installed mine on Friday night and haven’t had any issues whatsoever with it. I even did some datalogging yesterday and all is well there too. Of course to take full advantage of the 18% larger area you will need to have your tune modified and that may be where people will get stuck if your tuning company isn’t willing to do that since you didn’t buy their throttle body.

APR comes with an intake tube, plugs, as well as connections. I was watching this for a while trying to figure out if I wanted to wait for universal or pull the trigger on APR since I have their tune. Figured I was better off since this is my daily driver going with something that is tested and supported. I could just see issues down the road of finger pointing between venders as to whos problem it is when things don't work.

[Adamantium]

That’s a fair point.

Given that this one doesn’t even need retuning, I don’t see how it could interfere, granted it might not give you a huge benefit without retuning.

That aside, my concern is the other threads in this forum where owners who are already fully APR’d up are complaining that the ultracharger doesn’t work.

[cspcrx]

have not see that, I have seen complaints about their cats getting killed, but that happens to stock cars. I know early on there were some issues with the wiring, but that as well seems to have been fixed. The last one was the plugs some seemed to get better results with the stock temp while others found the ones they provided to work just fine. I believe Loe runs one on his car.

Big knock was the cost and that you could not take it off and sell it. For me I do not plan on ever doing that so I do not care.

[Loe]

the Ultracharger works just fine and as advertised, we wouldn't be where we are at today on the TVS R1320 blower without an upgraded throttle body, the bottleneck is real, otherwise we wouldn't even have someone else pushing a 75-82mm TB, and IE about to release their version of an 80mm TB. The ones that don't have a well-working Ultracharger are either hardware/fuel related, or software safety related because the conditions aren't ideal (either hardware/user error, or really bad environmental conditions), and the others really haven't produced a full VCDS log relaying the actual cause of their APR Ultracharger not performing the way it should. Dollar-to-value ratio is a bit low, however, but it's cheaper than other sound enhancing products that have shown to produce even less.

Those "issues" above are very very real and will likely be real for those who try a 75mm in combination with larger crank pullies. Utilizing and understanding VCDS logs goes a long way, particularly as you venture outside the box in terms of fueling.

[friskuh]

welcome to 2018 buddy !

only old people use facebook

[RWD2quattro]

^^ LMAO

Loe makes good point, log, log, log. It makes my head spin sometimes looking and comparing new logs to previous runs to catch that AHA moment. Loe, at what PSI was your hobbs switch set at for secondary pump?
I spoke with Steve @ Fuel-It and he's recommending 12-15psi, he will make me a bracket to adapt to front of bucket (wiring/filter) to install a second pump along with new hoses. The new pump will run in series with stock pump to push more fuel under boost but under normal load pump will be a pass thru ala 335i. The pump will not fill bucket or run in parallel. I'll post pics once I get it and see where it takes me...

[AudBoost]

I spoke with Steve @ Fuel-It and he's recommending 12-15psi, he will make me a bracket to adapt to front of bucket (wiring/filter) to install a second pump along with new hoses. The new pump will run in series with stock pump to push more fuel under boost but under normal load pump will be a pass thru ala 335i. The pump will not fill bucket or run in parallel. I'll post pics once I get it and see where it takes me...

Wait... you got Steve to build a solution for our cars?? That is HUGE!!!

[Adamantium]

Do the later crec engines have issues with limited fuel delivery? I'm just wondering if the secondary direct injectors mean it's not an issue anymore.

[Rodizzle]

^^ LMAO

Loe makes good point, log, log, log. It makes my head spin sometimes looking and comparing new logs to previous runs to catch that AHA moment. Loe, at what PSI was your hobbs switch set at for secondary pump?
I spoke with Steve @ Fuel-It and he's recommending 12-15psi, he will make me a bracket to adapt to front of bucket (wiring/filter) to install a second pump along with new hoses. The new pump will run in series with stock pump to push more fuel under boost but under normal load pump will be a pass thru ala 335i. The pump will not fill bucket or run in parallel. I'll post pics once I get it and see where it takes me...

You better tell him to make 2 [emoji6] lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UkuRiSh]

Do the later crec engines have issues with limited fuel delivery? I'm just wondering if the secondary direct injectors mean it's not an issue anymore.

CREC engine can support full E85 with the correct tune and secondary Injectors is not direct they port Injectors!

[Adamantium]

Primary injectors are direct injection and secondary are port injection? Great - even better.

So the crec engine fuelling is enough on its own, no need for after market pumps?

E85 useless for me, we don’t have it in the UK.

[Brother Owl]

only old people use facebook

Yeet. We're all too busy Instachatting Snapgrams of our Nitefort Chicken Chicken Dinner Wins to use Bookface

[RWD2quattro]

Wait... you got Steve to build a solution for our cars?? That is HUGE!!!
Thanks man, took some effort but at least we will have an option going forward and even a bucket less system for turbo upgrades [drool]


You better tell him to make 2 [emoji6] lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aight, what up Ro. Let me get the fitment and all that jazz squared away and I’ll let you know. Should get a call sometime next week, bracket is being made.

[friskuh]

Thanks man, took some effort but at least we will have an option going forward and even a bucket less system for turbo upgrades [drool]


Aight, what up Ro. Let me get the fitment and all that jazz squared away and I’ll let you know. Should get a call sometime next week, bracket is being made.

Wait hold up, so you just going to gloss over that first paragraph? That seems big; did he give any time frame on that? I was honestly thinking about going down the IE way with their new upgrades but this seems really huge.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeet. We're all too busy Instachatting Snapgrams of our Nitefort Chicken Chicken Dinner Wins to use Bookface

This dude, lmao, that made me laugh.

[Loe]

^^ LMAO

Loe makes good point, log, log, log. It makes my head spin sometimes looking and comparing new logs to previous runs to catch that AHA moment. Loe, at what PSI was your hobbs switch set at for secondary pump?
I spoke with Steve @ Fuel-It and he's recommending 12-15psi, he will make me a bracket to adapt to front of bucket (wiring/filter) to install a second pump along with new hoses. The new pump will run in series with stock pump to push more fuel under boost but under normal load pump will be a pass thru ala 335i. The pump will not fill bucket or run in parallel. I'll post pics once I get it and see where it takes me...

I have my 255lph hooked via relay now so that it fills the bucket. However, I thought about strapping on a 450 or higher on the hobbs switch again (mine was set at 10psi), I want to go higher than 450 though like a 525lph, because at 12v the 450lph is only flowing around 350-375lph, If you can source higher than 375lph @ 12v, it would be more beneficial imho, because the stock pump flows approx 375lph @ 75% pwm (the controller somehow magically sends a stronger 13.5v signal if I recall to the OEM pump).

The 255lph is a useless contraption, not even sure why we were sold this 2.0t fuel pump and not a real 450lph in the first place when it was introduced. But the bright side to this is that I have the wiring all in place for me now to upgrade to a better pump if needed without needing to resort to that expensive Torqbyte controller that's like $800 while still retaining some ECU direct control over fueling, because our LPFP fuel pressure sensor is at the HPFP, which bodes well for us as they ECU will simply send a lower PWM signal to the HPFP side if needed to compensate for the extra flow from the LPFP side, or send a lower PWM signal to the OEM fuel pump to lower flow, which in turn reduces or eliminates the chances of draining the bucket too fast at wide-open throttle.

if you want to hook it up to a relay, on the B8.5 in the trunk there is a "645" relay that you can use in the passenger side trunk area where the fuses are

[whiped]

Figured I'd bump this instead of responding to the other thread.

This came in the mail today:
https://i.imgur.com/amYJDeH.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GUGek45.jpg

Note: The adapter itself is pre-drilled for a meth nozzle if you want to add one, if not you just cap it off.

I quickly installed it during my lunch break, I'll post some logs and initial impressions in a few days.

[chilort]

Figured I'd bump this instead of responding to the other thread.

This came in the mail today:
https://i.imgur.com/GUGek45.jpg

Note: The adapter itself is pre-drilled for a meth nozzle if you want to add one, if not you just cap it off.

I quickly installed it during my lunch break, I'll post some logs and initial impressions in a few days.

Sexy

[jimrobbington]

Nice Geoff, can't wait to hear your thoughts

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Wazzap1101]

Nice Geoff, can't wait to hear your thoughts

Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkX2 definitely want to hear your experience

2013 B8.5 S5
GIAC DP and DSG tune - 57/187mm
AEM WM Injection, unbranded intake, Merc HX

[whiped]

FWIW I threw it on without any adaption.

Started the car up and idle was a little sporadic for a bit then corrected itself. I then drove it for ~15 mins in stop and go traffic.

The throttle is a little more responsive for sure. I didn't notice any drivability issues which was my biggest concern.

I'll probably post some logs tonight ~1am PST. I'll do a full proper review/post after I get it on the dyno.

[RWD2quattro]

Figured I'd bump this instead of responding to the other thread.

This came in the mail today:
https://i.imgur.com/amYJDeH.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GUGek45.jpg

Note: The adapter itself is pre-drilled for a meth nozzle if you want to add one, if not you just cap it off.

I quickly installed it during my lunch break, I'll post some logs and initial impressions in a few days.
LMAO, you couldn't wait till you got home [:D]

[whiped]

LMAO, you couldn't wait till you got home [:D]

I haven't had new parts in a few months... I was horny... OKAY!?!

Don't judge me, smh.

[Rodizzle]

Figured I'd bump this instead of responding to the other thread.

This came in the mail today:
https://i.imgur.com/amYJDeH.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GUGek45.jpg

Note: The adapter itself is pre-drilled for a meth nozzle if you want to add one, if not you just cap it off.

I quickly installed it during my lunch break, I'll post some logs and initial impressions in a few days.

🤤


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Adamantium]

Does that mean the rest of us can expect ours soon?

Did you retry with adaption and notice improvement?

[Loe]

vroooom vroooom! Can't wait to see these 1/4 mile times on this platform this boost season!

[AdamInKC]

Can anyone provide the steps for TB adaptation through Vagcom??

[Wazzap1101]

Can anyone provide the steps for TB adaptation through Vagcom??http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Throttle_Body_Alignment_(TBA)

2013 B8.5 S5
GIAC DP and DSG tune - 57/187mm
AEM WM Injection, unbranded intake, Merc HX

[Bartlett]

Does anyone know if I can just buy the APR intake tube and filter and keep my ECS carbon fiber overlay and heatshield?



I have the USP intake which goes from 4" and steps down to 3" which will be a restriction.

Thus I am switching to Tampa's intake which is 4" the entire way :)

I bought a silicon adapter to step it down properly.

I have the ECS intake, which I also believe is 4" by the filter and 3" by the TB.

What's this intake you are switching to? And I probably need to switch my tube as well, as I imagine it is a restriction.

[whiped]

I'll eventually make a new thread once I've done sufficient testing. Until then I'll leave some crumbs here.

Throwing the TB on without changing my tune resulted in a ~50hpa gain in MAF and MAP across the entire rev band.

https://i.imgur.com/Hz0NCee.png
Logs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tRStdgqP4sMLsVioYWVMIudWd3nC_0xzgKsc8H51-wk/edit?usp=sharing

Throttle response especially low-mid range is night and day. I notice it a TON in reverse interestingly.

We're adjusting the tune a bit now and will provide updates along the way. I'll schedule a Dyno and do some more intake testing once we are happy with it :)

[dillysd]

Damnit......so many good products coming out.

Shut up and take my money. Tell me how to order this ASAP!!


2015 S4 DSG - CTS Intake, APR Stage 1 ECU, APR TCU, APR CPS, AWE Touring, AWE Res Pipes, 034 Trans/Diff/Subframe Mounts, RS Grille, RS Fog Grilles, ECS Boost Gauge, TSW Nurburgring 19x9.5

[JACKAL]

Subbed....

I just ordered my ported blower from Tampa and I'm thinking I will combine it with the iABED TB

[GandalfTheIbis]

Subbed....

I just ordered my ported blower from Tampa and I'm thinking I will combine it with the iABED TB

Have you logged your fueling at all? You may want to to have a comparable before and after. I have an iAbed TB right now that is going uninstalled at the moment until I can get proper logs for fuel.

[whiped]

Have you logged your fueling at all? You may want to to have a comparable before and after. I have an iAbed TB right now that is going uninstalled at the moment until I can get proper logs for fuel.

Our ECU is very very good at correcting for fuel. I've seen +/- 30% fuel in my logs...

With that said, it is very sensitive to air intake. I'm still throwing periodic P0068 and P2279 from the throttle body.

I've been running it since last week without any complications just waiting for an updated tune to properly utilize it.

[GID]

Subbed....

I just ordered my ported blower from Tampa and I'm thinking I will combine it with the iABED TBSame here. My blower from Matty is supposed to arrive on Monday. Tb and Merc hx towards end of the month. Christmas in October.

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[GandalfTheIbis]

I’m seeing + 17% or so and the car is pulling timing when it needs to correct in that fashion. I have installed S4Matty’s old torqbyte with the walbro 450 and hydramat but I haven’t yet taken “after” logs because the winter wheels I put on were too bent to feel safe, lol. And then my backup set has a leaky valve stem.

LMFAO. Hopefully next week things will be going better.


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[JACKAL]

Have you logged your fueling at all? You may want to to have a comparable before and after. I have an iAbed TB right now that is going uninstalled at the moment until I can get proper logs for fuel.

No, I have not. From the other posts would you anticipate some significant correction to the fuel trims beyond what the ECM can handle? I will be taking some data after the install as I still have the stock fuel pump (or so I think - I haven't put a new one in yet but maybe the previous owner did) and I would be surprised if it could keep up with the dual pulley/ported blower/possible throttle body setup.

[GandalfTheIbis]

I am not sure to be honest. I consider myself pretty new to this. I was told that normal range would be +\- 5% and seeing that I was at 15-17% it was something I wanted to try to correct.

I would believe that since you’re in Wisconsin where the air is dense this time of year you may have issues. I have been making passes at Great Lakes dragway for most of the year and believe I’ve been locked out of higher traps based on the limits of my fuel system. I’m running a 189/57 with a Matty ported blower and believe this was a problem even in 90+ degree temps. At higher RPM’s my car just starts dumping fuel and pulling timing. It’s a weird phenomenon and it’s accompanied by large corrections on the LPFP side.


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[Morritse]

I can't find the price anywhere...

[JACKAL]

I can't find the price anywhere...

I believe they are $729.

[GID]

I can't find the price anywhere...$744

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[JACKAL]

I am not sure to be honest. I consider myself pretty new to this. I was told that normal range would be +\- 5% and seeing that I was at 15-17% it was something I wanted to try to correct.

I would believe that since you’re in Wisconsin where the air is dense this time of year you may have issues. I have been making passes at Great Lakes dragway for most of the year and believe I’ve been locked out of higher traps based on the limits of my fuel system. I’m running a 189/57 with a Matty ported blower and believe this was a problem even in 90+ degree temps. At higher RPM’s my car just starts dumping fuel and pulling timing. It’s a weird phenomenon and it’s accompanied by large corrections on the LPFP side.


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Well, I’m going to install everything and grab some data to see how the fuel pressure looks but I am expecting that I will run of gas in the higher RPMs so I will likely also be adding the Autotech HPFP shortly after the install.

[GID]

Do you think the crec motors with additional injectors will have the same problem? I don't believe there are hpfp for crec motor yet.
Well, I’m going to install everything and grab some data to see how the fuel pressure looks but I am expecting that I will run of gas in the higher RPMs so I will likely also be adding the Autotech HPFP shortly after the install.

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[JACKAL]

Do you think the crec motors with additional injectors will have the same problem? I don't believe there are hpfp for crec motor yet.

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I’m not sure. I don’t know much about those engines TBH. If they have more injectors but the same size fuel pump though then they would. The injectors are just nozzles to optimize atomization and mix so if there isn’t extra fuel to spray, they’ll lean out as well.

[GandalfTheIbis]

Well, I’m going to install everything and grab some data to see how the fuel pressure looks but I am expecting that I will run of gas in the higher RPMs so I will likely also be adding the Autotech HPFP shortly after the install.

My fuel rail pressures stay okay even when the LPFP is being boosted big time. Lambdas start to run crazy rich for no apparent reason when it happens. It’s the opposite of the effect I expected but I believe the ECU dumps fuel to protect the engine.


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[JACKAL]

My fuel rail pressures stay okay even when the LPFP is being boosted big time. Lambdas start to run crazy rich for no apparent reason when it happens. It’s the opposite of the effect I expected but I believe the ECU dumps fuel to protect the engine.


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Interesting. You do have upgraded fuel pump, no?

Also, apologies if this is deviating too much for the thread. I don’t want to hijack so this can be taken elsewhere.

[GandalfTheIbis]

Interesting. You do have upgraded fuel pump, no?

Also, apologies if this is deviating too much for the thread. I don’t want to hijack so this can be taken elsewhere.

I was taking those logs with an upgraded HPFP on 100oct per GIAC’s recommendation. I was previously running an e27 blend and it looked basically the same.

I recently installed the LPFP solution but do not have any updated logs nor dragy “afters.” Hopefully soon.



FWIW, the throttle body would surely still benefit me down low even with this problem. But I want some data to see if the LPFP install resolved the issues I was seeing on my previous setup before I add more air to the equation.

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[whiped]

I was running logs last night and forgot I shut off my lift pump when updating the tune on my car and never turned it back on... 1/8th tank of gas...

Logs speak for themselves.
An attempt at a launch:
https://i.imgur.com/OY7wpGW.png

Top of 2nd and 3rd bypass was opening up to avoid running lean.

[brs2c]

Anyone know of a VAG car that might want to buy our stock throttle bodies?


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[evil35r]

Installed today anyone else get a p0068 throttle position correlation code? Adapted twice...

[GID]

It's odd that there is no chatter of codes being thrown on FB but a few people have mentioned it on az. Anyone else install it have any feedback?

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[bajan01]

It's odd that there is no chatter of codes being thrown on FB but a few people have mentioned it on az. Anyone else install it have any feedback?

I’ve been running it for 2 weeks straight without any codes.

[GID]

Thoughts? I'm getting anxious waiting on mine.
I’ve been running it for 2 weeks straight without any codes.

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[kelseysautobody]

Installed today anyone else get a p0068 throttle position correlation code? Adapted twice...

Yes. Been getting the same code.

[Sick S4]

Now I’m concerned about installing mine with everyone complaining of codes being thrown. If it’s gonna throw codes I’ll wait to install it...


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[waxxonMTL]

is it only a soft code ? or it create problems whent you accelerate and its like you hit a wall and stop accelerating ? If its just soft code.. just doesnt look pretty on the vagcom, but I'm confident tuner will be able to overcome these codes once the tunes goes off the shelf.

[whiped]

No it's a CEL.

No issues with driveability. Idle is a little boggy though.

[Morritse]

Damn $750 is more than I can afford right now :/

[GandalfTheIbis]

Now I’m concerned about installing mine with everyone complaining of codes being thrown. If it’s gonna throw codes I’ll wait to install it...


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Looks like it's only 3/25 guys on the first run. Giving you a roughly 90% chance of not throwing a code. Worst case scenario you swap back. It shouldn't take long.

[evil35r]

And out of those three I have a super high flowing intake with a large filter and velocity stack, the other two have high flowing intakes as well as ported chargers. It seems like if you flow more air than most you get the cel. We’ll see if we’re roght probably just needs a tune to tweak it. I’ll live with the cel for now car drives so good. Idle is ok for me though.

[Gberg888]

What intake are people mating up to this?

[Bartlett]

What intake are people mating up to this?

I’ll be using the ECS one with a 3” coupler expanding to 3.25” by the inlet.

I was worried about flow restriction as the ECS internal diameter is probably 2.8”, while the TB is 2.95”. But, that’s not enough to warrant a swap, so I’ll just be sticking with it.

[SPONGE]

Looks like it's only 3/25 guys on the first run. Giving you a roughly 90% chance of not throwing a code. Worst case scenario you swap back. It shouldn't take long.Agreed. Unless he is paying for installation and not wrenching himself.

[DBFL]

And out of those three I have a super high flowing intake with a large filter and velocity stack, the other two have high flowing intakes as well as ported chargers. It seems like if you flow more air than most you get the cel. We’ll see if we’re roght probably just needs a tune to tweak it. I’ll live with the cel for now car drives so good. Idle is ok for me though.


I have a 4” intake and a porter blower. No issues with idling and I’ve never had a CEL. I’m still on a GIAC DP tune (although we will be testing a tune that takes advantage of the TB and ported charger). It’s been working flawlessly for me, and I’ve had this on my car for longer than anyone else.

[p3u]

It sounds like an EPL tune issue, but supposedly they are coming out with a TB specific revision. I think all but one with the CEL are tuned by them.

I have a ported blower and RS7 intake which flows incredibly well with no issues.

[evil35r]

2 of 3 are EPL cars the other 034. Fwiw after the second adaptation I haven’t had the cel come back yet. Although after driving 50 miles today shopping etc I didn’t floor the car so we’ll see if it comes back. Runs perfect though

[whiped]

Mine almost always comes back shortly after starting under light throttle load.

I drove like 200 miles without it coming up two weekends ago but then started it up and it came back on.

I'm curious what we all have in common. The 3.0Ts came with a few different TBs, it's possible that is related.

Or the fact we all have Ported Blowers and intakes *shrug*

[GID]

Mine almost always comes back shortly after starting under light throttle load.

I drove like 200 miles without it coming up two weekends ago but then started it up and it came back on.

I'm curious what we all have in common. The 3.0Ts came with a few different TBs, it's possible that is related.

Or the fact we all have Ported Blowers and intakes *shrug*Do all three of the people getting codes have ported blowers? Actually I think there may be a forth person based on the FB thread.

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[JJI]

If these are going to be 775/800 and then you need a tune to get the most out of it what makes it better then the APR one that was just onsale for 1100 ?

Trying to understand difference i originally thought these were going to be a lower cost alternative

Thanks


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[jimrobbington]

If these are going to be 775/800 and then you need a tune to get the most out of it what makes it better then the APR one that was just onsale for 1100 ?

Trying to understand difference i originally thought these were going to be a lower cost alternative

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk$300 less is clearly "cheaper". Also, UC requires APR software, where this can be used with any tuner...

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[DBFL]

If these are going to be 775/800 and then you need a tune to get the most out of it what makes it better then the APR one that was just onsale for 1100 ?

Trying to understand difference i originally thought these were going to be a lower cost alternative

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There isn’t a tune required. Only a few people are having issues. Perhaps certain tunes don’t allow for more airflow (just a guess).
Almost everyone that has bought this TB has had zero issues. A tune specific to a larger TB and ported supercharger will help even more, but it’s certainly not necessary. I’ve tested the throttle body in a lot of different conditions (in stop-and-go rush hour traffic, just cruising around town, launch from a dig to 120 mph, roll racing to over 159 mph). Zero issues at all. Not a single CEL, and no soft codes when checking with VCDS.

[whiped]

Most(22/25) are running the TB without any problem including those with setups similar to mine albeit at higher altitudes.

Just for reference to see if we can get other data:

2013 S4, 3.475 PR, Ported Blower, Sea Level ish, 034 Stage II++ E40 tune. I tested both a USP and TAS intake -> P0068 CEL and P2279 DTC.
Note: Stock TB was a Continental.


6318 - Leak in Air Intake System
P2279 00 [109] - -
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 94816 km
Date: 2018.10.15
Time: 16:31:10

Engine speed: 1918.00 /min
Normed load value: 19.6 %
Vehicle speed: 42 km/h
Coolant temperature: 58 °C
Intake air temperature: 27 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1020 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.913 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1248 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 514.74414 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 514.74414 hPa
TPS_ENVD: 5.1 %
Ignition angle: actual: 16.125 °
RFP_AV_ENVD: 68.6220

6307 - MAP/MAF <-> Throttle Position Correlation
P0068 00 [237] - -
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94816 km
Date: 2018.10.15
Time: 16:31:10

Engine speed: 1926.00 /min
Normed load value: 19.6 %
Vehicle speed: 42 km/h
Coolant temperature: 58 °C
Intake air temperature: 27 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1020 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.913 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1248 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 514.74414 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 514.74414 hPa
PDT_ENVD: 504.13086 hPa
AMP_ENVD: 1013.5684 hPa
RFP_AV_ENVD: 68.6220


================================================== =======================


P2279 Intake air system leak
-- Check the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor --

Malfunction Criteria and Threshold Value
􀁺 threshold to detect a defective system
>1.33....1.6
􀁺 AND
􀁺 ratio of the the system defective during the measurement window to the whole duration of the measurement window
>0.60000

Secondary Parameters with Enable Conditions
􀁺 time after engine start > 60.0 Sec
􀁺 engine load < 40%
􀁺 mass air flow < 6553.50 kg/h
􀁺 ECT > 49.50° C
􀁺 IAT < 99.80° C
􀁺 lambda control value > 0.95
􀁺 lambda set value 0.95...1.05
􀁺 vehicle speed < 1.00km/h
􀁺 lambda control active
􀁺 engine speed idle
􀁺 altitude < 2700m
􀁺 O2S front no fault

P0068 MAP/MAF - Throttle Position Correlation

Malfunction Criteria and Threshold Value
􀁺 deviation throttle controller < -43 or > 43%

Secondary Parameters with Enable Conditions
􀁺 time after engine start > 70 Sec
􀁺 fuel cut-off not active
􀁺 throttle position > 4.5%
􀁺 fuel trim activity -15...15%

[JJI]

$300 less is clearly "cheaper". Also, UC requires APR software, where this can be used with any tuner...

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Yea I understand 300 is cheaper but then you would have to add in the cost of tune or do most do the update for free?


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[JJI]

There isn’t a tune required. Only a few people are having issues. Perhaps certain tunes don’t allow for more airflow (just a guess).
Almost everyone that has bought this TB has had zero issues. A tune specific to a larger TB and ported supercharger will help even more, but it’s certainly not necessary. I’ve tested the throttle body in a lot of different conditions (in stop-and-go rush hour traffic, just cruising around town, launch from a dig to 120 mph, roll racing to over 159 mph). Zero issues at all. Not a single CEL, and no soft codes when checking with VCDS.

Thanks this helps I figured I was missing something


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[jimrobbington]

Yea I understand 300 is cheaper but then you would have to add in the cost of tune or do most do the update for free?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTune update does not seem to be required, but will net better performance. Seems like a lot of people are getting tune updates for free.

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[evil35r]

2013 S4, PR in sig, Sea Level ish, EPL DP meth/93 file. -> P0068 CEL and Leak in air intake system code. Came on again after logs only during light throttle or cruising.
Note: Stock TB was a Continental.

6318 - Leak in Air Intake System
P2279 00 [039] - -
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 119437 km
Date: 2018.10.21
Time: 13:54:03

Engine speed: 1744.00 /min
Normed load value: 18.8 %
Vehicle speed: 104 km/h
Coolant temperature: 98 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.421 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1728 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
TPS_ENVD: 8.2 %
Ignition angle: actual: 16.125 °
RFP_AV_ENVD: 75.2362

6307 - MAP/MAF <-> Throttle Position Correlation
P0068 00 [039] - -
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 119437 km
Date: 2018.10.21
Time: 13:54:03

Engine speed: 1744.00 /min
Normed load value: 19.2 %
Vehicle speed: 104 km/h
Coolant temperature: 98 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.421 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1728 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
PDT_ENVD: 541.27734 hPa
AMP_ENVD: 1013.5684 hPa
RFP_AV_ENVD: 75.2362

[Tony@EPL]

This is related to low airflow calculated air flow vs throttle angle. It will occur on most/all cars running the throttle body if the ecu was originally calibrated correctly.



2013 S4, PR in sig, Sea Level ish, EPL DP meth/93 file. -> P0068 CEL and Leak in air intake system code. Came on again after logs only during light throttle or cruising.
Note: Stock TB was a Continental.

6318 - Leak in Air Intake System
P2279 00 [039] - -
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 119437 km
Date: 2018.10.21
Time: 13:54:03

Engine speed: 1744.00 /min
Normed load value: 18.8 %
Vehicle speed: 104 km/h
Coolant temperature: 98 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.421 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1728 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
TPS_ENVD: 8.2 %
Ignition angle: actual: 16.125 °
RFP_AV_ENVD: 75.2362

6307 - MAP/MAF <-> Throttle Position Correlation
P0068 00 [039] - -
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 119437 km
Date: 2018.10.21
Time: 13:54:03

Engine speed: 1744.00 /min
Normed load value: 19.2 %
Vehicle speed: 104 km/h
Coolant temperature: 98 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.421 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine speed: actual: 1728 /min
MAP_1_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
MAP_2_ENVD: 562.50391 hPa
PDT_ENVD: 541.27734 hPa
AMP_ENVD: 1013.5684 hPa
RFP_AV_ENVD: 75.2362

[bhvrdr]

This is related to low airflow calculated air flow vs throttle angle. It will occur on most/all cars running the throttle body if the ecu was originally calibrated correctly.



Thanks Tony. It doesnt appear to trigger a limp mode of any sort so is this going to impact performance at all or is it to be ignored ala the secondary cat codes running testpipes?

Mike

[Tony@EPL]

Thanks Tony. It doesnt appear to trigger a limp mode of any sort so is this going to impact performance at all or is it to be ignored ala the secondary cat codes running testpipes?

Mike
We don’t ignore the codes related to test pipes.... we very purposefully DO NOT turn them off because it’s very much illegal.

As for throttle body tune optimization that will result in no code being thrown due to proper calibration... well, that’s not illegal and is already in beta.

[Morritse]

We don’t ignore the codes related to test pipes.... we very purposefully DO NOT turn them off because it’s very much illegal.

As for throttle body tune optimization that will result in no code being thrown due to proper calibration... well, that’s not illegal and is already in beta.

Question. How is APR able to do it in CA? is it because you go to a dealer and sign a disclaimer?

[Tony@EPL]

Question. How is APR able to do it in CA? is it because you go to a dealer and sign a disclaimer?

No tuner is “able” to do it. It illegal period. Weather a tuner chooses to break the law... that’s up to them.

Google the epa vs sct and have a read!

[GandalfTheIbis]

We don’t ignore the codes related to test pipes.... we very purposefully DO NOT turn them off because it’s very much illegal.

As for throttle body tune optimization that will result in no code being thrown due to proper calibration... well, that’s not illegal and is already in beta.

I read that as ignored by the ECU, not ignored by EPL, a la you.


I do agree with you regarding test pipes. Other companies have had to pay per device modified for tampering with emissions equipment. It's not worth it for the tuner in most cases.

[bhvrdr]

Correct I meant ignored by us or basically any of us who have tunes that don't specifically addeess it.... Which I've done in the past many times on the old a4 cars

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[Adamantium]

Just to re-iterate, my main reason for buying this is to not be locked to APR. I’m not convinced by APRs products or pricing so wanted an option for the throttle body that keeps my options ok.

Also the fact that I can fit this without having a tune at. Then next time I get a remap, it automatically gets included when optimising.

[QuattroRingKing]

Just ordered mine. Very excited for the results.

[extratime]

Just ordered mine. Very excited for the results.

I'm probably going to end up getting one of these too. However, I'm courious what's making you so excited for this mod?

I haven't seen one person raving about this TB or even make any kind of positive comment. Execpt, for someone saying it slightly helps with throttle resopnce.

I don't do facebook so maybe that's where all the info is landing?

[evil35r]

Went from 1500 air mass to over 1600. Making about 1 more psi of boost. Throttle response is great louder sc whine. Prob 15 hp or so is my guess. I like it a lot.

[jimrobbington]

I'm probably going to end up getting one of these too. However, I'm courious what's making you so excited for this mod?

I haven't seen one person raving about this TB or even make any kind of positive comment. Execpt, for someone saying it slightly helps with throttle resopnce.

I don't do facebook so maybe that's where all the info is landing?I've seen people post +30whp or so without any software adjustment. I haven't seen anyone report back after software revisions though...

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[extratime]

Thanks guys for some positive info. I still think I will hold off on this until I see some results from updated software.

[Whitee]

Would be nice to see some concrete results after tuning.


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[DBFL]

Would be nice to see some concrete results after tuning.


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That’s coming soon. I was going to do that by now, but I got really busy with work. And this week has been all about prepping the car for a weekend HPDE event.

[Adamantium]

I don’t get why the pessimism. It’s a larger throttle body, it definitely flows more air.

It definitely is plug and play, and it has been shown to improve throttle response with no downside.

It’s already ahead of the ultra charger on the basis that it doesn’t tie you to APR and everyone of their progressive states of tujingnand pricing structure.

[Adamantium]

^ tuning and pricing structure.

[brs2c]

I've seen people post +30whp or so without any software adjustment. I haven't seen anyone report back after software revisions though...

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I’m getting one. That being said- I don’t foresee it making 30+ whp. Of course, I would love it, if it did. Do you have any links to said posts?


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[QuattroRingKing]

[QUOTE=extratime;13370030]I'm probably going to end up getting one of these too. However, I'm courious what's making you so excited for this mod?

I haven't seen one person raving about this TB or even make any kind of positive comment. Execpt, for someone saying it slightly helps with throttle resopnce.


Its going to flow more air than stock, half the price of the ultracharger and no tune required. Well rounded solution for those who don’t want to switch over to apr software

[brs2c]

[QUOTE=extratime;13370030]However, I'm courious what's making you so excited for this mod?

I haven't seen one person raving about this TB or even make any kind of positive comment. Execpt, for someone saying it slightly helps with throttle resopnce.


On a daily driver, IMO throttle response is a big deal. Beyond that, it seems like the higher RPM’s will get the biggest bump, making that last 500 RPM’s or so, more exciting. Finally the faster you can move air into the engine, the less heat is absorbed by the air charge. Anything that lowers IAT’s (even slightly) helps with consistency of performance on our cars...also, some will find the louder SC wine pleasing


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[bhvrdr]

Who is going to end up selling these TB as far as store fronts? Itd be nice to see the offerings. Sorry if I missed it but I cant find them on a site searching. I dont do The Facebook.

mike

[GID]

Who is going to end up selling these TB as far as store fronts? Itd be nice to see the offerings. Sorry if I missed it but I cant find them on a site searching. I dont do The Facebook.

mikeThey are manufactured and distributed by issam abed. He does not have vendors selling them yet. If you want one, you'll have to contact him directly. We've been using fb because that's the format that he released it but I suspect you can just as easily buy from email.

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[bhvrdr]

They are manufactured and distributed by issam abed. He does not have vendors selling them yet. If you want one, you'll have to contact him directly. We've been using fb because that's the format that he released it but I suspect you can just as easily buy from email.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using TapatalkThanks brother

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[GID]

Thanks brother

Sent from my SM-G935V using TapatalkNo problem and good luck. Pm me if you can't get him and I'll try to relay.

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[bajan01]

They are manufactured and distributed by issam abed. He does not have vendors selling them yet. If you want one, you'll have to contact him directly. We've been using fb because that's the format that he released it but I suspect you can just as easily buy from email.


www.iabedindustries.com

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/e75310a83d608c4b524c5bd62e43a1f8.jpg

He is “Wizard-of-OD” on here so you could also try sending him a PM.

[bhvrdr]

You guys are gems ;)

[kelseysautobody]

Paired with a (beta) TB file I would say the butt dyno difference reminded me of when I first installed a ported blower. Same gain in throttle response down low and pulls slightly harder through the entire rev band. TB tunes aren't out to the public yet but I'm sure they are coming soon.

[bhvrdr]

Can anyone confirm is this the throttle body being used?

997 74mm throttle body...

99760511501

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750474

997 82mm throttle body...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750473

99760511601


I ask because I have a 997S and have the 74mm throttle body sitting here in the garage anyways and the 82mm lol (we take it from a gt3 rs to use).

Mike


Yes. There’s a bit of taper on both units. I measured the 997 butterfly to be 74mm and the factory butterfly to be 68mm. This gives an increased area of 18.4%, ignoring the shaft diameter etc.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/1b3117c357f40237f719f1a88aeb79cf.jpg

Factory unit on left, Porsche 997 unit on right.

...pic bolted into my car.[emoji12]🤫

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/eb70c29f443aa3faf388a05e7c361700.jpg


Mike

[JACKAL]

Can anyone confirm is this the throttle body being used?

997 74mm throttle body...

99760511501

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750474

997 82mm throttle body...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750473

99760511601


I ask because I have a 997S and have the 74mm throttle body sitting here in the garage anyways and the 82mm lol (we take it from a gt3 rs to use).

Mike




Mike

I apologize if I missed something (which is often the case) but are you saying you bolted up the 74 mm 997 throttle body successfully?

[jimrobbington]

I’m getting one. That being said- I don’t foresee it making 30+ whp. Of course, I would love it, if it did. Do you have any links to said posts?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)It was a private conversation with a local guy in my area running EPL.

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[p3u]

I apologize if I missed something (which is often the case) but are you saying you bolted up the 74 mm 997 throttle body successfully?

The Porsche TB's are not simply bolted on. You need the iAbed TB adapter plate and harness for it to work.

[bhvrdr]

I apologize if I missed something (which is often the case) but are you saying you bolted up the 74 mm 997 throttle body successfully?


Not exactly, what I'm saying is that it appears the throttle bodies being used by iAbed and others are the 74mm 997 throttle body as pictured above and I have one sitting here anyways. Its a $135 part.

It appears to bolt it up you just need an adapter/spacer fabbed up. Then to wire it up you need a wiring harness. So I just want to confirm this is the case. If it is the case then obviously this means its a roughly $260 ($135 for the TB, $99 for the spacer, $20 for the harness) option for us that i'd look into since I already have the TB sitting here.

Mike

[JACKAL]

The Porsche TB's are not simply bolted on. You need the iAbed TB adapter plate and harness for it to work.

Thanks for clarifying. It seemed too good to be true but the cost is quite a bit lower than the iAbed unit which is what sparked my interest. Does anyone have details on his mounting plate and wiring harness? I would assume that the cost on those is high enough to just push people toward his 'off-the-shelf' 75mm unit?

[whiped]

Mike, there is some logic controller in the adapter itself.

I haven't personally looked at it but it is roughly the size of an Arduino.

The issue with out TB is it does things the opposite of conventions. With this new adapter we can run multiple TBs. 75,82,85.

I'm tempted to try the 82mm one and see what the data looks like first hand

[bhvrdr]

Thanks for clarifying. It seemed to good to be true but the cost is quite a bit lower than the iAbed unit which is what sparked my interest. Does anyone have details on his mounting plate and wiring harness? I would assume that the cost on those is high enough to just push people toward his 'off-the-shelf' 75mm unit?

No necessarily. An adapter/spacer can be fabbed by any machine shop. Its very cheap and easy to do. I can look into what the local shops I have used charge. I'd guess under a hundred bucks.

Wiring harnesses are cheap too usually. I've purchased parts for making them and i'll look at the porsche and audi plugs. Many times you can buy the plugs even used on ebay for a couple dollars. I'd just need to make sure there are not any electronics wired into the harness. If there is then you need to source those diodes which are usually like 99 cents or whatever.

Mike

[bajan01]

Not exactly, what I'm saying is that it appears the throttle bodies being used by iAbed and others are the 74mm 997 throttle body as pictured above and I have one sitting here anyways. Its a $135 part.

It appears to bolt it up you just need an adapter/spacer fabbed up. Then to wire it up you need a wiring harness. So I just want to confirm this is the case. If it is the case then obviously this means its a roughly $260 ($135 for the TB, $99 for the spacer, $20 for the harness) option for us that i'd look into since I already have the TB sitting here.

Mike

Patent royalties etc. [emoji102]

[DBFL]

Can anyone confirm is this the throttle body being used?

997 74mm throttle body...

99760511501

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750474

997 82mm throttle body...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-throttle-body-0280750473

99760511601


I ask because I have a 997S and have the 74mm throttle body sitting here in the garage anyways and the 82mm lol (we take it from a gt3 rs to use).

Mike




Mike

Yes, it’s the 997 74mm throttle body.

Issam’s kit includes the TB, gaskets, adapter plate, bolts, and the harness. Yes, you could source almost all of that, but it’s the harness that makes it work. It’s not just a matter of different plugs on the harness. There is a small circuit board in the harness to convert the signal to one that the ECU in our cars can understand. That’s the part that took so long to R&D. And it’s why Issam’s kit is plug and play where APR requires a tune for the car to talk to the Hemi TB they use. APR probably wrote come code into their ultra charger tune so make the ECU & TB talk, where Issam used hardware (thus making it not tune specific).

[bhvrdr]

Yes, it’s the 997 74mm throttle body.

Issam’s kit includes the TB, gaskets, adapter plate, bolts, and the harness. Yes, you could source almost all of that, but it’s the harness that makes it work. It’s not just a matter of different plugs on the harness. There is a small circuit board in the harness to convert the signal to one that the ECU in our cars can understand. That’s the part that took so long to R&D. And it’s why Issam’s kit is plug and play where APR requires a tune for the car to talk to the Hemi TB they use. APR probably wrote come code into their ultra charger tune so make the ECU & TB talk, where Issam used hardware (thus making it not tune specific).

Ok right on. That should be pretty easy though. Let me see if I can get the specs on the continental and bosch TB controllers and see what needs to be done. Right now it seems the harness is basically a $500 part. If we can get it down to $50 that will help folks out a lot.

Mike

[Wizard-of-OD]

Ok right on. That should be pretty easy though. Let me see if I can get the specs on the continental and bosch TB controllers and see what needs to be done. Right now it seems the harness is basically a $500 part. If we can get it down to $50 that will help folks out a lot.

Mike
I am a little confused Mike.
You emailed asking for availability.

You were provided the information but I'll put it out there for the public.

You will never get the adapter harness down to $50 ever. The 12 pins alone through our supplier are over $80 as they are gold plated.
Then there is a CNC'ed enclosure for the circuit board.

Then you have a Bosch throttle body (not some crusty ebay listing)
Then the CNC adapter plate
Then the gaskets and hardware
...and so on.

Of course like most of our products people feel the need to justify why it is xyz. I never heard anyone complain when the competition was selling a dodge hemi unit for $1400+?

That being said , I have stated this before that I welcome anyone to source there own throttle bodies. We can provide the rest of the components. Just be careful not to infringe on the adapter harness pending patent ;)
GL.

[bhvrdr]

I am a little confused Mike.
You emailed asking for availability.

You were provided the information but I'll put it out there for the public.

You will never get the adapter harness down to $50 ever. The 12 pins alone through our supplier are over $80 as they are gold plated.
Then there is a CNC'ed enclosure for the circuit board.

Then you have a Bosch throttle body (not some crusty ebay listing)
Then the CNC adapter plate
Then the gaskets and hardware
...and so on.

Of course like most of our products people feel the need to justify why it is xyz. I never heard anyone complain when the competition was selling a dodge hemi unit for $1400+?

That being said , I have stated this before that I welcome anyone to source there own throttle bodies. We can provide the rest of the components. Just be careful not to infringe on the adapter harness pending patent ;)
GL.


yes I am definitely interested in trying this out. The more I read the threads it hit me that I literally already have this throttle body. I've messed with these exact throttle bodies for my 997s for the past year or so.


So of course this got me thinking all I need is the adapter and harness. Can the signal manipulation for the adapter harness be done on the ECU tuning side btw?

Trust me not only did some people complain about the ultracharger price point but a year later we still get endless people complaining about it, lol.

That said, would you consider selling just the harness then or just the adapter to folks? I think since the genuine brand new bosch throttle body is only $135 and easily sourced maybe this would be a great business strategy too?

What would you charge for the harness alone or the adapter alone?

Thanks
mike

[p3u]

Ok right on. That should be pretty easy though. Let me see if I can get the specs on the continental and bosch TB controllers and see what needs to be done. Right now it seems the harness is basically a $500 part. If we can get it down to $50 that will help folks out a lot.

Mike

Heres the inner workings of the brat. Have fun.

[bhvrdr]

That being said , I have stated this before that I welcome anyone to source there own throttle bodies. We can provide the rest of the components. Just be careful not to infringe on the adapter harness pending patent ;)
GL.


Heres the inner workings of the brat. Have fun.

Lol.

Well issam clarified that he has always said he'll sell the harness and adapters separately so that may solve my issue of already having a throttle body.

Lets see what he comes back with on that for pricing

Mike

[DBFL]

Lol.

Well issam clarified that he has always said he'll sell the harness and adapters separately so that may solve my issue of already having a throttle body.

Lets see what he comes back with on that for pricing

Mike

That’s going to be your best option. Issam’s has done a ton of R&D to make this work. That’s why he’s patenting it, as he should.

As for your earlier question about doing it via coding the ECU to work, that would make it tune dependent. The goal was to make it hardware based so it can work with any tuner’s software.

[ModItNow]

I guess bigger is not always better. I would love to see the data on 75mm vs 82mm. Either way can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Makes me want to put a meth nozzle in there too now, shit. It's definitely a game changer not to be tune specific.

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[bhvrdr]

That’s going to be your best option. Issam’s has done a ton of R&D to make this work. That’s why he’s patenting it, as he should.

As for your earlier question about doing it via coding the ECU to work, that would make it tune dependent. The goal was to make it hardware based so it can work with any tuner’s software.

Yeah i totally understand a patent if he has something proprietary and complex there. I was only mentioning a harness made if it was morecsimole and diy for those who are skilled in it on the forums like we did with the cwa100 pump. I didnt realize it was so involved.

Question about the tuning aspect. I understand some are getting soft codes for throttle position out of spec. Is this also giving a CEL or is it just a softcode? Also it serms maybe 034 and EPL are making tune adjustments for this issue. So if they are making tune adjustments for it does that mean they could have just tuned for it without the complex harness or does the harness make it possible easier to tune for it?

Sorry for all the questions im just one for research trying to forsee any issues and being ready for them.

[whiped]

The harness should make it much easier to tune.

The hard part for Nate is that he doesn't have physical access to the TB so he has to guess how much more air flows in different conditions. (Mainly partial throttle)

The tune is mostly done, no more CELs just smoothing it out now. It's been raining a ton though so I haven't been able to do much logging the last week.

[GandalfTheIbis]

I would think the code would be a result of the volume of air flowing through the throttle body. The harness is likely still needed in order to make the throttle body open to the appropriate angles.

[DBFL]

Yeah i totally understand a patent if he has something proprietary and complex there. I was only mentioning a harness made if it was morecsimole and diy for those who are skilled in it on the forums like we did with the cwa100 pump. I didnt realize it was so involved.

Question about the tuning aspect. I understand some are getting soft codes for throttle position out of spec. Is this also giving a CEL or is it just a softcode? Also it serms maybe 034 and EPL are making tune adjustments for this issue. So if they are making tune adjustments for it does that mean they could have just tuned for it without the complex harness or does the harness make it possible easier to tune for it?

Sorry for all the questions im just one for research trying to forsee any issues and being ready for them.

I believe the code is because ithe car is seeing more air than certain tunes call for. The tune revision that GIAC is doing is to make the most out of the larger throttle body and a porter blower. It’ll work without a tune, but a tune specific to those items will provide even more power. I can’t speak for EPL or 034 since I don’t have their tunes, but I’m assuming they are doing the same type of revisions.

[Whitee]

Anyone have a public link to the Facebook group or so you have to be a member to see posts? I don’t have Facebook but would like to keep up with development.


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[jimrobbington]

Anyone have a public link to the Facebook group or so you have to be a member to see posts? I don’t have Facebook but would like to keep up with development.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou have to be a member. Just create an account specifically to be a part of that group. You don't have to partake in all the debauchery which is FB.

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[Adamantium]

Yeah i totally understand a patent if he has something proprietary and complex there. I was only mentioning a harness made if it was morecsimole and diy for those who are skilled in it on the forums like we did with the cwa100 pump. I didnt realize it was so involved.

Question about the tuning aspect. I understand some are getting soft codes for throttle position out of spec. Is this also giving a CEL or is it just a softcode? Also it serms maybe 034 and EPL are making tune adjustments for this issue. So if they are making tune adjustments for it does that mean they could have just tuned for it without the complex harness or does the harness make it possible easier to tune for it?

Sorry for all the questions im just one for research trying to forsee any issues and being ready for them.

Looks to me like you are fishing for solutions from the guy who put in lots of hard work and r and d, on how to circumvent his patent so you can either avoid paying for his hard work, or sell it yourself and undercut him.

If you can put these parts together for so much less money, why don’t you put in the time and money and figure it all out for yourself?

Bloody cheek asking the guy himself for the answers and complaining that he’s charging for his efforts.

[jimrobbington]

Looks to me like you are fishing for solutions from the guy who put in lots of hard work and r and d, on how to circumvent his patent so you can either avoid paying for his hard work, or sell it yourself and undercut him.

If you can put these parts together for so much less money, why don’t you put in the time and money and figure it all out for yourself?

Bloody cheek asking the guy himself for the answers and complaining that he’s charging for his efforts.Lol this is clearly not why Mike is doing this.

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[bhvrdr]

Looks to me like you are fishing for solutions from the guy who put in lots of hard work and r and d, on how to circumvent his patent so you can either avoid paying for his hard work, or sell it yourself and undercut him.

If you can put these parts together for so much less money, why don’t you put in the time and money and figure it all out for yourself?

Bloody cheek asking the guy himself for the answers and complaining that he’s charging for his efforts.

Dont talk about what you dont know about. Im asking the forum members questions not just Issam. This is not his thread. It was started by a forum member.

And you're assuming now that I want to sell something? Ive been on this forum 15 years and never tried profiting off members. I have found solutions for things and shared it with members free of charge which is what this forum is about.

I have stated if there is an easy solution than maybe its worth exploring. If not, ive also said i'm more than willing to pay someone whose work is worth the price...which it may be.

I'm not going to stop asking questions though that could help develop this car and assume that one single solution is the only solution though. Thats not much of a car forum. For that all you need is sales websites.

Mike

[Wizard-of-OD]

and assume that one single solution is the only solution though.
Hi Mike
Currently there are 3 maybe 4 other solutions on the market place all based around using a dodge hemi or other VDO units.

The iABED solution is not the only solution , however , it is the only solution that is plug and play and allows access to the Bosch catalog since VDO is limited in sizes (no 75mm unit that works).
That being said it would be great if others did not follow what we did but rather create there own solution that does not involve an adapter harness.

Yes they will be available separate but really not too pleased with people saying "its $50 worth of parts". If it was that simple and cheap it would've been done 2 years ago....

[Adamantium]

So he puts in work to make something easy for others to fit, a plug and play solution, and you ask how it’s made and publicly break down the component price to see if people can avoid paying his mark up.

What difference does it make how long you’ve been on the forum? I don’t understand why you would try to wreck someone’s business model so openly.

If you question the value of a product why not ask the guy privately what you are paying for rather than state on a forum how the component price can be broken down to much less, especially when you don’t understand where the real value lies.

His product has a usp that has value to him and market, I guess that’s why he has a patent. Why try to devalue that on an open forum?

[bhvrdr]

Hi Mike
Currently there are 3 maybe 4 other solutions on the market place all based around using a dodge hemi or other VDO units.

The iABED solution is not the only solution , however , it is the only solution that is plug and play and allows access to the Bosch catalog since VDO is limited in sizes (no 75mm unit that works).
That being said it would be great if others did not follow what we did but rather create there own solution that does not involve an adapter harness.

Yes they will be available separate but really not too pleased with people saying "its $50 worth of parts". If it was that simple and cheap it would've been done 2 years ago....

I apologize for insinuating that your harness specifically was $50 worth of parts if that is not true at all. I thought it may be a dummer harness which of course would be only about 20 dollars in parts ala the CWA 100 retrofit harness. I have no interest in copying your design to be clear. If it was a simple harness and mating up a throttle body of course i'd do that as would anyone on the forum as it would be very simple and inexpensive. I apolgize for not being more polite in asking you about the value of your harness. Can you give a price on it? Thank you


So he puts in work to make something easy for others to fit, a plug and play solution, and you ask how it’s made and publicly break down the component price to see if people can avoid paying his mark up.

What difference does it make how long you’ve been on the forum? I don’t understand why you would try to wreck someone’s business model so openly.

If you question the value of a product why not ask the guy privately what you are paying for rather than state on a forum how the component price can be broken down to much less, especially when you don’t understand where the real value lies.

His product has a usp that has value to him and market, I guess that’s why he has a patent. Why try to devalue that on an open forum?

I am not attempting to wreck anyones business model. If it really was an easy solution that we could do on this forum with members sharing how to do it then perhaps incidentally it could wreck his business model but in that case it obviously should have been wrecked... uhhh.... because obviously if it was easy and inexpensive to make than it wouldnt be worth $590 for the adapter and harness. If its a unique, expensive, and complex solution then the market will support that. Thats called capitalism and it has nothing to do with me asking other forum members if there is a way for us all to do something like this ourselves. I contacted him to be a customer msyelf. I have a right to research what I may or may not spend my money on though. Otherwise we would still have only $2000 headers available for ours cars lol.

Mike

[DBFL]

Let’s all calm down here.
Mike clearly wasn’t trying to do anything malicious. He assumed that the harness is straight wiring. It isn’t, and once that was explained Mike seemed to understand why the pricing was set as it is.
Let’s not turn this thread into another pissing contest thread as has happened so many times here.

[p3u]

What would you charge for the harness alone or the adapter alone?

Thanks
mike


I have a spare one for sale in package. PM me if interested...