A slow ass 400 CHP project thread

[AudiB720TS]

Okay, I am officially abandoning the idea to use those S3 internals.
I went to pick up S3 rod bearings and S3 rod bolts at the Audi dealer (could not get them from any online retailer).
I also went to the local post office to pick up crank bearings, main cap bolts and Mahle piston rings and a few other things.

Looking at the receipts for the parts that concerned rods and pistons it was over 250$ with VAT added [headbang]
And then I will add balancing and what not at the engine shop and I will be paying 500$ for installing old parts with a different compression (which I take to mean I will spend more $$$ at my super expensive tuner later on) [facepalm]

So drove to a customer visit and then when finished over there I drove straight back to Audi to return most of the stuff (kept a replacement glovebox latch/lock thingie at 60$). Working on the return for for the Mahle rings now.

Nearly 300$ (okay 250+) for restoring those rods and pistons when the new K1 forged rods are just 370$ something, with ARP bolts!? So I will be getting aftermarket rods and pistons (yeah EA it just took a while!).
I'm going to hold myself to selling the S3 parts first though so this will slow the continuation of this project a bit. Will then get the K1 rods and then some forged pistons with near stock compression ratio (prefereably Mahle or JE if they have sorted their labeling). Hopefully the engine builder can just sit on my block until further so I don't have to go down there and get another speeding ticket for a while.

That's that for now. Decided.

[Charles.waite]

I’d lean towards mahle tbh.

I think you’ve made the correct choice even if I was pushing to stick with OEM. The rebuild parts are expensive. I got mine at cost from a good friend who runs a shop in Denver so I got new pistons and all the bearings for less than the pistons cost retail. No discount on the IE rods though... [emoji22]

[i3oricua]

I would look into King Race bearings if I were you. Def cheaper than most of the other brands and great quality. You’ll want to upgrade the bearings and there’s small things that add up too like new thrust washers, etc....ARP bolts are worth getting too if you are planning on replacing the mains with new hardware. Anyways, it’s an expensive black hole, make sure your price the whole build out before you get too deep.


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[Charles.waite]

It really is important to be realistic about your goals and stick to those. You don’t really need ARP hardware for mains for instance unless you’re pushing closer to 500hp.

Be willing to draw a hard line on overbuilding your engine based on your goals. You don’t need half the stuff you’ll hear “you might as well replace this” because otherwise you’ll be $10k into your long block just for a hybrid k04 build.

I’m running everything stock, long block wise aside from IE Rods (that come with ARP hardware). My plans are very modest though, I’m hoping for around 300whp so I don’t need any of that stuff, even though I’ve been very tempted.

[EvolutionArmory]

Exactly Charles. I think that’s where a lot of builds here go wrong. Nobody here is making any serious power to justify pixie dust coated this or that.

If I build this motor it will be drop in rods and oem everything else. Keep it simple and actually be able to drive it. 🤣🤣

[Charles.waite]

Eeeeexactly.

[EvolutionArmory]

I think you’ll be happier that way, I really do. You can pick a ratio closer to stock, maybe 10.0:1, keep your crazy flat torque curve that seems to go forever and still lower compression enough so you won’t be real close to riding the knock limit. Then you could go water/meth if you still have an itch to pick up more power 😀

[seal66]

I would look into King Race bearings if I were you. Def cheaper than most of the other brands and great quality. You’ll want to upgrade the bearings and there’s small things that add up too like new thrust washers, etc....ARP bolts are worth getting too if you are planning on replacing the mains with new hardware. Anyways, it’s an expensive black hole, make sure your price the whole build out before you get too deep.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou have an EFR kit on the car?


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[i3oricua]

You have an EFR kit on the car?


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On mine? Yes. But this isn’t my thread.


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[seal66]

On mine? Yes. But this isn’t my thread.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes yours. I didn't realize you did that.

And I know. Just a quick question lol

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[i3oricua]

Yes yours. I didn't realize you did that.

And I know. Just a quick question lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Lol. I just didn’t want to clog his thread or mistake it for mine. My thread is in the builds/projects stuff too. In it you’ll find anger, happiness, hate, tears, blood, sweat, and very soon fire.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Any updates on this?

[AudiB720TS]

Any updates on this?

Not much man. Been sick, also looking at buying a condo at the moment so lots of time put into that...
Car has been at Audi (fantastic service) for a front bumper respray since that accident. They did a great job on it.
Weather is too crappy for pictures though...


Here's the block back home again:

BHZ block:
https://i.imgur.com/RL7xAQf.jpg

Today I also cleaned the S3 camshafts. Looking pretty good, but will probably put up for sale and use the money towards porting the head.

[AudiB720TS]

Audi S3 intake cam in slowmo people (yeah I pressed the wrong button)!

Audi S3 8P intake camshaft:

https://youtu.be/dNobNIFKxiQ

[i3oricua]

Very epic.

Are you just using the iPhone or cell to do videos?


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[AudiB720TS]

Very epic.

Are you just using the iPhone or cell to do videos?


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It varies. The video above was done with a Garmin VIRB Ultra 30 action cam.

[AudiB720TS]

Small update: I've decided to port and polish the head myself. Saves me about 800$ that can be put on the valve-train and accessories instead.
Only downside is I won't get the port dividers filled as planned. Or I still might but it will get more complicated. Grinder and bits have been ordered.
Pics forthcoming in the next couple of weeks. Feeling pretty confident having inspected the runners. Just need some minor TLC.

[AudiB720TS]

Small update: I've decided to port and polish the head myself. Saves me about 800$ that can be put on the valve-train and accessories instead.
Only downside is I won't get the port dividers filled as planned. Or I still might but it will get more complicated. Grinder and bits have been ordered.
Pics forthcoming in the next couple of weeks. Feeling pretty confident having inspected the runners. Just need some minor TLC.

Well, I'm like a woman and her period with regards to this project: I tried the porting part and decided working on a small port with a large and heavy straight edge grinder was not as easy as I had anticipated.
Just positioning the grinder on the port surface without moving around and hitting the opposite walls was hard, and I couldn't get deep in the runner either, nor could I get comfortable at the long radius near the valve seat.
I reckon it takes much practice and experience to get the grinder to go where you want it with any kind of precision. So not for me, not this time hehehehe...

The head is now on its way to a professional on the other side of the continent. Shipping alone was a hundred bucks. This will be some next level shit!

[EvolutionArmory]

Isn’t a port job pretty useless unless it’s multiple angle on this head anyway? A DIY port job is probably a waste of energy. If you’re going through with it, it’s probably better that you sent it out.

[AudiB720TS]

Isn’t a port job pretty useless unless it’s multiple angle on this head anyway? A DIY port job is probably a waste of energy. If you’re going through with it, it’s probably better that you sent it out.

I am filling the port dividers and doing a 'street port'. Later (when I resurface the head) I will machine the valve seats and do angles on the valves. The guy that did the block can do that.
Just feeling around the runners with my fingers there are some noticeable ledges, especially near the intake valve seat. It's just at a very off angle. Reducing that will yield a payoff no doubt.

Did you look at this: https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/article-2-litre-tfsi-cylinder-head-cutaway.277100/

[canadianA4B7]

Just be sure that your flows are equal through to each cylinder. Creating differences here will cause far more issues then benefits. And be sure to read up on what type of finish should be used when doing port work on a daily driver, boosted car there’s a few things you will want to avoid when you port this head.

[AudiB720TS]

You guys ready for some level 10 awesomeness!?

#NoMoneyLeft4Xmas

[i3oricua]

You guys ready for some level 10 awesomeness!?

#NoMoneyLeft4Xmas

Yea let’s hear it.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Nah. Tomorrow would be better for me....

Send it!!

[AudiB720TS]

Images from the S3 head getting ported. As planned, I've had the port dividers removed. Now what I requested was a street port, but this is a bit more let's say. So why stop here? This week I also sent in my valves and asked the guy to also cut the seats for additional gains. In the pics the head has also been glass blasted to a finish that looks almost painted satin. More pics when seats and valves are done. Got a birthday coming up? Run me one of them Facebook donation campaigns hahahahaha...

Intake (note: weld-in port divider delete):
https://i.imgur.com/tDqamtw.jpg

Exhaust:
https://i.imgur.com/mSoJA9J.jpg

Chambers (pre valve seat angle job):
https://i.imgur.com/dqWcErq.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

As you can read from the revised thread title the project goal is now 400 crank horsepower.

Head work
Work on the S3 head continues. It now has a 3 ange valve seat job and the stock valves have been glass blasted and refreshed to the seats. Below is a picture of current status.

Head done:
https://i.imgur.com/jCiXtTI.jpg

Valvetrain
At this point I'm trying to decide on valve springs. I am leaning towards using CDL(A) exhaust springs or Supertech rev.2 springs, whichever proves cheaper. The CDL springs were uprated on the exhaust side compared to previous generations. They are used for example here (https://www.goapr.com/images/support/tsb/bulletin-s3-CDL.PDF) as a cure to to misfires at high RPM (I guess valve float related issues). On searching the part number you see them used in various VAG cars, mostly on the exhaust side, but on some vehicles they are used on both intake and exhaust. Seat pressure seems approximate to Supertech intake spring pressure. So I'm thinking its potentially a good compromise between cost and performance if I install these on BOTH intake and exhaust side.

Rods and pistons
My S3 rods and pistons have not sold although there's been a lot of interest. At some point soon I will have to decide to just keep them and go with the original idea of using them in my build. At 400 CHP they're going to be just fine. I cannot motivate spending on 3rd party internals unless I get these sold and I also cannot drop the price further (at about 200$ for the full set). So that's that.

Oil pump
Will get my spare oil pump glass or soda blasted soon. Then looking to install new tensioner and a "freewheel" setup to disengage the balance shafts. If its not too labor intensive I might also cut the shafts out, mostly to save weight, and maybe get some extra oil capacity. Contemplating this, but it seems stupid since the main idea of the freewheel is not having to do that (but could be fun) [facepalm]

[AudiB720TS]

Did I knock everybody out with the cylinder head shots or what!?

Valvetrain
Waiting for a Supertech sale, otherwise CDL exhaust springs it is. Oh, wait: somebody posted about FCP Engineering which I've never heard about, but they seem to be the most affordable option out there and at 82lbs they are sure to cure my vavle float! Made in Lithuania (a country that gets some of western europe's offshored production, so could be OEM quality, could be...).



Brand
SKU
Intake
Exhaust
Price


Supertech
SPRK-A2416-N2
73lbs @ 38,60mm
85lbs@ 37,20mm
400 Euro/USD


VAG (CDL)
06F109623
72lbs@37mm?
72lbs@37mm?
300 Euro/USD


FCP Engineering (https://fcp-engineering.com)
FCPVSATSI/16
82lbs @ 37mm
82lbs @ 37mm
200 Euro/USD





Rods and pistons
Anyways, S3 rods and pistons are now sold and I am weighing my decision on new forged rods/pistons.
I want low weight but near stock CR, so list is down to:


JE 10.0:1 pistons with K1 1.8t rods
Wössner 9.8:1 pistons with ZRP rods


Option two is heavier, but has the stronger 21 mm pin. It's also a lot easier for me to source locally.

Oil pump
I've gone ahead and ordered the Wasa Motor freewheel sprocket which deactivates the balance shafts without the hassle of removing them.
So far I've just unpacked it for below photograph, but I spun it a bit on the bolt it comes with and balance seems OK (VIS Motorsport seems to have issues here).
Will do a video with the sprocket installed on my S3 pump unit and see how it spins then.

You can find it on sale here: https://wasamotor.com/shop/vw-audi-skoda-and-seat/tfsi-2-0-ea113/oil-pump-balance-shaft/balance-shaft-delete-tfsi-2-0-freewheel/

Wasa Motor TFSI freewheel sprocket:
https://i.imgur.com/fQZ0gqZ.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Decided to take a chance and order the FCP Engineering valve springs. Will be here mid next week [cool]

[AudiB720TS]

I installed my Wasa Motor balance shaft deactivation sprocket / freewheel today.

Wasa Motor freewheel #1
https://i.imgur.com/WP6j1KG.jpg

Wasa Motor freewheel #2
https://i.imgur.com/T2KRDp5.jpg

I'll make a video of install and function if there's enough interest (recorded, not edited).
Flying to Norway now for work, back Friday to inspect my FCP Engineering valve springs [:D]

[Clockwise33]

How did you hold the balance shafts while tightening the freewheel sprocket bolt? Would it have been possible to install without removing the oil pump assembly?

[aluthman]

How did you hold the balance shafts while tightening the freewheel sprocket bolt? Would it have been possible to install without removing the oil pump assembly?

Just wedge something between the shafts and no probably not.

[AudiB720TS]

How did you hold the balance shafts while tightening the freewheel sprocket bolt? Would it have been possible to install without removing the oil pump assembly?

Like the other gentleman said you can wedge something between the balance shafts to counter-hold. If the pump is on the car and chain is not yet removed then I imagine you could hold the other sprocket bolt or hold the chain itself with a locking pliers.

[AudiB720TS]

OK, ended up just doing a summary video here. Installation is so simple I cannot justify spending time on editing the install video.
I did however add instructions in the video description on Youtube.


https://youtu.be/jOmUMMFIiqQ

[Clockwise33]

Like the other gentleman said you can wedge something between the balance shafts to counter-hold. If the pump is on the car and chain is not yet removed then I imagine you could hold the other sprocket bolt or hold the chain itself with a locking pliers.

Holding the chain/sprocket wont work because it freewheels relative to the bolting surface. Wasa and VIS both claim it can be installed with the pump on the car. I guess they want you to wedge a pin into one of the balance shaft gears from the bottom oil drain holes.

Did Wasa suggest a torque spec for the bolt holding on the freewheel sprocket?

[AudiB720TS]

Did Wasa suggest a torque spec for the bolt holding on the freewheel sprocket?

55 Nm.

I can ask them about install with pump still on the engine.

[AudiB720TS]

55 Nm.

I can ask them about install with pump still on the engine.

They say you can put something (drill bit) in one of the drain holes to lock the shafts if pump is on the car still.

[AudiB720TS]

New valve springs came and went. Decided to send them back. Now trying to source CDL exhaust springs to use on intake/exhaust.

[AudiB720TS]

New valve springs came and went. Decided to send them back. Now trying to source CDL exhaust springs to use on intake/exhaust.

16 x CDL exhaust springs ordered.
Approx. 170$ from Audi.

[AudiB720TS]

Non-scientific comparison of springs. The CDL exhaust spring is taller than the BHZ spring possibly contributing to increased stiffness (but note the BHZ spring is also worn so might be shorter than when new). I got 16 x CDL exhaust springs from Audi dealer to use on both intake and exhaust side. These are 72 lbs so stiffer than stock but not super stiff by any means. Hopefully will not cause valve float in my application [cool]

BHZ spring (left) VS CDL exhaust spring (right):
https://i.imgur.com/s9vDp6Z.jpg

[megarex]

i recently read an article talking about the dynamic frequencies in the valve train. Timing of the dynamic waves as they travel through the spring coils plays a large role in keeping the valve seated
“As the spring goes toward max lift not all of the coils close at the same time; so just the frequency of the open coils matter near max lift. On the way back down, the spring’s own frequency is back in play as it has to have the proper timing of the dynamic wave through the spring result in force at the retainer to hold the valve closed,”

how important do you think timing the spring frequencies are for our engines? is there a HP/TQ threshold where this starts to matter?

[AudiB720TS]

i recently read an article talking about the dynamic frequencies in the valve train. Timing of the dynamic waves as they travel through the spring coils plays a large role in keeping the valve seated
“As the spring goes toward max lift not all of the coils close at the same time; so just the frequency of the open coils matter near max lift. On the way back down, the spring’s own frequency is back in play as it has to have the proper timing of the dynamic wave through the spring result in force at the retainer to hold the valve closed,”

how important do you think timing the spring frequencies are for our engines? is there a HP/TQ threshold where this starts to matter?


The issue on our application seems to be more about back pressure from the (hybrid) turbo which is not allowing the valves to close on time.

That, and my valve springs probably have some wear to begin with.

It may not be an issue with a standard K04 or with a larger turbo.

I guess your text is about a naturally aspirated application (they take a “ceteris paribus” if you know what I mean), but you can probably make an argument how spring timing matters here as well. I don’t know, I am not an expert (I work in IT for fucks sake), but I do know I’m installing an OEM 2.0T EA113 spring (I trust the engineers at VAG) to address my valve float problem.

[AudiB720TS]

Bad day for the Audi: a sudden gust of wind blew the garage door into the left fender when exiting. Smashed the side marker and scratched the whole fender.

[AudiB720TS]

Today I went to test some Sparco seats at a karting shop. Could possibly use more side support while doing some weight reduction. “Sparco Rev” felt like the best choice for me. I could do two of those: either both in the car or one in the car and one in a gaming rig (in case they actually do quarantine here...).

[AudiB720TS]

Today I went to test some Sparco seats at a karting shop. Could possibly use more side support while doing some weight reduction. “Sparco Rev” felt like the best choice for me. I could do two of those: either both in the car or one in the car and one in a gaming rig (in case they actually do quarantine here...).

Oh yeah, I also cancelled my garage lease as a bit of a precaution for the rough times ahead. It means l’ll have to slow down the engine build or maybe try do it in the apartment (3rd floor and no elevator though!).

One route could be to complete and install only the head this year. Do the forged block next year if economy has turned around.

[AudiB720TS]

EA, guys?
What gains do you think I can expect if I replace my HFC with a decat / catless DP?

[EvolutionArmory]

EA, guys?
What gains do you think I can expect if I replace my HFC with a decat / catless DP?

If it’s a restriction, you’ll pick up loads. If it’s not, you won’t. You’ll definitely lose some post turbine back pressure no matter what which is ALWAYS a good thing.

A decat pipe to a true 3 down pipe to dual 2.5’s is about as free flowing as you’ll need for a 350-400 HP car.


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[AudiB720TS]

H&R springs arrived today. Gotta decide if I want to do this myself or let a shop do it for me.
Did springs on one of my old cars, but it also had a lot less complexity. This looks more daunting.

https://i.imgur.com/UPGUW3E.jpg

I also look at my car and it IS pretty low, right!? Well I've got the springs so better install them.
Its the sloppy handling I want to address anyway.

https://i.imgur.com/dgVOH64.jpg

[EvolutionArmory]

Front springs are easy. No problem there. Rear springs on a Quattro car suck unless you have a way to drop the whole rear subframe. That’s how I did the rear springs on my wife’s car. Had the whole rear end balancing on a transmission jack.

Getting stock rear springs out is almost impossible with just a spring compressor without dropping the rear subframe. S Line springs are easier to take out but still a pain and your lowering springs will pop in much easier in comparison.

[AudiB720TS]

Front springs are easy. No problem there. Rear springs on a Quattro car suck unless you have a way to drop the whole rear subframe. That’s how I did the rear springs on my wife’s car. Had the whole rear end balancing on a transmission jack.

Getting stock rear springs out is almost impossible with just a spring compressor without dropping the rear subframe. S Line springs are easier to take out but still a pain and your lowering springs will pop in much easier in comparison.

Thanks,
Sounds like I should set aside two days for this and have bunch of beer in the garage.

[megarex]

Getting stock rear springs out is almost impossible with just a spring compressor without dropping the rear subframe. S Line springs are easier to take out but still a pain and your lowering springs will pop in much easier in comparison.

https://www.mcmaster.com/1168N3

buy 3 of these^^^ industrial zip ties. jack your suspension up all the way, zip tie them, then lower the jack and the spring will slide right out. repeat for the other side. The shorter springs should go in ok.

[AudiB720TS]

https://www.mcmaster.com/1168N3

buy 3 of these^^^ industrial zip ties. jack your suspension up all the way, zip tie them, then lower the jack and the spring will slide right out. repeat for the other side. The shorter springs should go in ok.

Seems a bit risky with all that force on the compressed spring. I guess you would then put a spring compressor on and try cut the zip ties, yes?

[i3oricua]

I've always been able to do it by just dropping the subframe bolts. I am non s-line and it worked out fine. Did it on a few other people's cars in the past and it was fine as well.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

I've always been able to do it by just dropping the subframe bolts. I am non s-line and it worked out fine. Did it on a few other people's cars in the past and it was fine as well.

Edgar

But yours is FWD, right Edgar? The other cars, any of them Quattro?

I went ahead and ordered a used air impact wrench. Found a Atlas Copco high end model 1000 USD++ for just 150$ - should obliterate any bolt I put in front of it. Just hoping my cheap ass Chinese compressor can keep up.

[i3oricua]

But yours is FWD, right Edgar? The other cars, any of them Quattro?

I went ahead and ordered a used air impact wrench. Found a Atlas Copco high end model 1000 USD++ for just 150$ - should obliterate any bolt I put in front of it. Just hoping my cheap ass Chinese compressor can keep up.Yes but I've done it on quattro's and still worked fine.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

Yes but I've done it on quattro's and still worked fine.

Edgar

Great, and if you don’t mind: what exactly do you mean by jacking the suspension? You put the jack on the wheel hub?

[i3oricua]

Great, and if you don’t mind: what exactly do you mean by jacking the suspension? You put the jack on the wheel hub?I'm not sure who said that or what they meant by it.

I would imagine they're talking about when putting in the shocks that you will have to close the gap to but the bolts back in the holes and I've jacked it up by putting it under the brake rotors to bring things together.

But I don't want to put words in the mouth of whoever said that.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

I'm not sure who said that or what they meant by it.

I would imagine they're talking about when putting in the shocks that you will have to close the gap to but the bolts back in the holes and I've jacked it up by putting it under the brake rotors to bring things together.

But I don't want to put words in the mouth of whoever said that.

Edgar

Sorry, my bad. I mixed up your post with another.

[AudiB720TS]

Signed up for a track event in two weeks.
It's the same track I did a racing license ....15 years ago...
I haven't kept any gear since I was more active so I need to go out and by a new helmet and gloves today.

Hopefully H&R springs will be installed this weekend and then if I feel the car won't need spacers I'll get a 4 wheel alignment next week.
Otherwise I will race it without alignment (gives me something to blame!).

[AudiB720TS]

Signed up for a track event in two weeks.
It's the same track I did a racing license ....15 years ago...
I haven't kept any gear since I was more active so I need to go out and by a new helmet and gloves today.

Hopefully H&R springs will be installed this weekend and then if I feel the car won't need spacers I'll get a 4 wheel alignment next week.
Otherwise I will race it without alignment (gives me something to blame!).


Done.

https://i.imgur.com/cF541kB.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

I've started at my lowering spring install, but hitting a problem.
I am not getting much power from my air wrench. It's a very powerful industrial grade tool so its a bit surprising.

Could it be that my air compressor is not able to feed enough air or should I assume the tool needs service?


https://i.imgur.com/qfN8O8g.jpg

[i3oricua]

I've started at my lowering spring install, but hitting a problem.
I am not getting much power from my air wrench. It's a very powerful industrial grade tool so its a bit surprising.

Could it be that my air compressor is not able to feed enough air or should I assume the tool needs service?


https://i.imgur.com/qfN8O8g.jpgCheck the compressor setting. Sometimes there's a separate knob to close the air valve and open it.

The gun usually has a set screw of some sort to control air bleed and torque. Play with that a little bit until you get it going.

Recommended you apply a drop of lube to the gun in the nipple if you have the lube. If not, just send it since there's nothing you can do about it. It's just recommended maintenance.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

Check the compressor setting. Sometimes there's a separate knob to close the air valve and open it.

The gun usually has a set screw of some sort to control air bleed and torque. Play with that a little bit until you get it going.

Recommended you apply a drop of lube to the gun in the nipple if you have the lube. If not, just send it since there's nothing you can do about it. It's just recommended maintenance.

Edgar

Thanks Edgar,
No adjustments on the gun or on the compressor. I guess I can't use it for this job.
Will probably have it tested at my usual shop - they should be able to just hook it up and try it on something ;)

[AudiB720TS]

OK, first spring out with advise from Edgar.
I started with the rear springs for whatever random reason.
They're a real bitch to get out [=(]

I used the ghetto zip tie approach (didn't help) together with loosening the subframe bolts.
This didnt work so after chatting with Edgar here I removed the front subframe bolt completely as well as the top shock mount.
I then used a spring compressor and a crowbar to get that little ****** out.

Rear S-Line (TS edition) spring (L) vs H&R spring (R):
https://i.imgur.com/CppiuMm.jpg?1

As you can see the height difference is rather small, its hard to see exactly in the pic but I would say its less than an inch, maybe 15-20 mm.

[EvolutionArmory]

S line springs are already like 30mm lower than stock so there’s that.

The difference in drop for the rear shock is less than the difference in drop in the front for HR springs. The front is 1.7 from stock and 1.6 in the rear. Going from S Line to HR springs isn’t technically a lot of difference but once you install them and they settle, they will look a million times better. [emoji3]

The best part of going with HR springs is the reverse rake look is gone. That alone makes it worth buying them.


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[AudiB720TS]

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking.

I completed the rear springs this morning.
Went really well I think (and it helps to sleep on it).

I removed one of the fronts, but I can’t turn the nut with hand tools on top of the strut so I ended up putting it back on the car.

Is there some trick or method to getting those top linkage arms to come back (is it call the tie rod maybe?) - those rubberized joints won’t come all the way down again (but enough for me to still tighten the bolt).

Ended up driving to “my mechanic”. His shop was very busy which surprised me. Turns out his co-worker/co-owner is down with Covid-19 and he’s left to do all the cars himself. He literally told me there’s ‘no way in hell I will have time to do your car too’. I said ‘you gotta at least try man’ and ‘I’ll just leave it here’.

I’m just mentally done with this job right now, at least before the weekend IPA’s.

He did offer to lend me an air wrench (we tested mine on his compressor and it was just as bad as on mine. Guy sold me a broken gun!).

I ran the 5k back home, in my mechanic overall hahaha... Need some exercise when you’re home all day eating!

Anyways, I’ll wait ‘til Tuesday. If he’s had time to look at the car then, awesome, otherwise I’ll jog myself back there, borrow the wrench and try again myself.

Next Saturday is track day on the race track. I need all springs installed by then even if it’s without alignment.

Car does feel more solid in the rear now already, but I can’t see any height difference to be honest.

[i3oricua]

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking.

I completed the rear springs this morning.
Went really well I think (and it helps to sleep on it).

I removed one of the fronts, but I can’t turn the nut with hand tools on top of the strut so I ended up putting it back on the car.

Is there some trick or method to getting those top linkage arms to come back (is it call the tie rod maybe?) - those rubberized joints won’t come all the way down again (but enough for me to still tighten the bolt).

Ended up driving to “my mechanic”. His shop was very busy which surprised me. Turns out his co-worker/co-owner is down with Covid-19 and he’s left to do all the cars himself. He literally told me there’s ‘no way in hell I will have time to do your car too’. I said ‘you gotta at least try man’ and ‘I’ll just leave it here’.

I’m just mentally done with this job right now, at least before the weekend IPA’s.

He did offer to lend me an air wrench (we tested mine on his compressor and it was just as bad as on mine. Guy sold me a broken gun!).

I ran the 5k back home, in my mechanic overall hahaha... Need some exercise when you’re home all day eating!

Anyways, I’ll wait ‘til Tuesday. If he’s had time to look at the car then, awesome, otherwise I’ll jog myself back there, borrow the wrench and try again myself.

Next Saturday is track day on the race track. I need all springs installed by then even if it’s without alignment.

Car does feel more solid in the rear now already, but I can’t see any height difference to be honest.You can use the impact gun on that top or if doing it correctly you need an angled wrench or something you can stick an Allen wrench through to stop the shock from spinning while loosening the nut.

Not sure what you mean about the tie rods or upper control arms.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

Not sure what you mean about the tie rods or upper control arms.

Edgar
I mean the two things in the center of this pic where the logo is pretty much:

http://www.a4mods.com/pics/Suspension/IMG_1206a.JPG

[AudiB720TS]

if doing it correctly you need an angled wrench or something you can stick an Allen wrench through to stop the shock from spinning while loosening

I didn’t see it took an Allen key (is that what you mean?). So then I could use an open socket with Allen key center, you mean? I might revisit then.

[i3oricua]

I mean the two things in the center of this pic where the logo is pretty much:

http://www.a4mods.com/pics/Suspension/IMG_1206a.JPG
As long as you can insert the pinch bolt through easily then they'll settle in once you lower the car. Those are upper control arms.

I didn’t see it took an Allen key (is that what you mean?). So then I could use an open socket with Allen key center, you mean? I might revisit then.Yup. It should have one. I have a spare set of cheap shocks in the garage and I took a pic to confirm what you should be looking for. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200515/fb5215a79a61c5ec7044f72cc5e189d5.jpg

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

Thanks a lot, missed this somehow.
I’ll go back to the shop in the weekend, if my car is still outside I’ll just drive it back with my spare key.

[AudiB720TS]

Had a good start today at the garage with a power tool borrowed from the shop. Then when competing the first front one, I torqued the bolt on the upper control arms too hard that it snapped. Will have to find a new bolt tomorrow morning. Hopefully in stock at Audi. Just another 5k run away.

Hmm, I am not finding this bolt in the parts catalog, it looks different although I'm looking at front axle for Quattro.
Anybody know the part number?


Bolt (in hand, before I snapped it) and bolt location:
https://i.imgur.com/NumGTui.jpg

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_single/catalog/au/markt/RDW/modell/A4Q/year/2007/drive_standart/454/hg_ug/407/subcategory/407005/part_id/921333/lang/u#sec_12

[AudiB720TS]

I'm too fast sometimes... I figure it must be: "N 10576802".

[i3oricua]

I'm too fast sometimes... I figure it must be: "N 10576802".Yea thats its. Make sure you put some anti-seize or copper grease on it to prevent it from seizing in the future. It you can buy it in stainless steel. I think that's what some do to prevent the seizing.

Edgar

[AudiB720TS]

Called Audi at 07.00 and reserved the two last bolts they had in the city. Picked up before lunch.

What do you guys think about need for spacers? With the current stance, its well inside top, somewhat outside bottom.
I'm thinking maybe adding 5mm or 10mm at each wheel before getting alignment done. Thoughts?


https://i.imgur.com/lI2XQTt.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

S line springs are already like 30mm lower than stock so there’s that.

The difference in drop for the rear shock is less than the difference in drop in the front for HR springs. The front is 1.7 from stock and 1.6 in the rear. Going from S Line to HR springs isn’t technically a lot of difference but once you install them and they settle, they will look a million times better. [emoji3]

The best part of going with HR springs is the reverse rake look is gone. That alone makes it worth buying them.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)


Springs are now installed on all four corners.
@ EA any chance you still recall your H&R part number for your springs? Mine are "H&R 29368-1"
I just feel they sit higher front than I expected even.

[EvolutionArmory]

H&R sport springs for a Quattro V6 are 29368-2

H&R sport springs for a Quattro 2.0 are 29368

I don’t see a 29368-1 listed on H&R’s application guide
http://www.hrsprings.com/application/appsbymake/results/3/Suspension

Edited for V6 and 2.0T differences, not Avant or Sedan

[EvolutionArmory]

Maybe you bought old stock from when H&R offered 2 different heights for our cars? Maybe you didn’t buy the springs that lower 1.7 inches?

That’s all I can think of if your gap isn’t almost entirely gone in the front.

I have an Avant so I use 29368 and this is what I’ve got for wheel gap.
178782

[AudiB720TS]

Maybe you bought old stock from when H&R offered 2 different heights for our cars? Maybe you didn’t buy the springs that lower 1.7 inches?

That’s all I can think of if your gap isn’t almost entirely gone in the front.

I have an Avant so I use 29368 and this is what I’ve got for wheel gap.
178782

Yeah, I’m NOT that low.
Thinking it’s might be axle weight spec difference, but I’m not finding any info.

[EvolutionArmory]

Where did you buy your springs?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[AudiB720TS]

Where did you buy your springs?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Purchased from Autodoc which is the largest retailer in Europe at the moment.
I called H&R in Germany just now actually, they said that "29368-1" is for the lower range front axle load, and "29368-2" for the higher range axle load.
That should mean I have the correct spring given the engine is 2.0T versus the larger 3.2L also offered.

The label also looks correct (Avant + DTM --- my car is a DTM spec'd Avant pretty much).

https://i.imgur.com/fnZknpa.jpg


Are those freaking bump stops the issue here?

[EvolutionArmory]

You have a 2.0T Avant. You should be running 29368 with no suffix.

You could be resting on the bump stops. I usually cut them at least in half.

It’s easy to see if you’re be resting on the bump stops. Press down on your fender and see if you have shock travel and rebound. If not, you’re riding on the bump stop.

[AudiB720TS]

How it sits:

https://i.imgur.com/Be1xmW4.jpg?1

[EvolutionArmory]

You're probably running the wrong spring for your application. You should have bought 29368 with no suffix for a 2.0T Quattro Avant. It's right there in the application guide I linked. I edited that post for clarification.

also, 29368-1 is no longer even on their own application guide. It's probably discontinued. Most likely an old OE like S Line spring part number they don't offer any more. Just a guess there.

[AudiB720TS]

ItÂ’s easy to see if youÂ’re be resting on the bump stops. Press down on your fender and see if you have shock travel and rebound. If not, youÂ’re riding on the bump stop.

It does rebound so that much is fine.

About item number, maybe USA SKU's are different, I mean you see "Avant" and "Kombi" (station wagon) on the label so it matches. And when I called H&R (I called HQ in Germany!) they confirmed. Still it looks a bit tall...

[EvolutionArmory]

It does rebound so that much is fine.

About item number, maybe USA SKU’s are different, I mean you see “Avant” and “Kombi” (station wagon) on the label so it matches. And when I called H&R (I called HQ in Germany!) they confirmed. Still it looks a bit tall...

Europe does offer more A4 engine options but I don't think that would affect the spring rates that much. I got those SKU numbers directly from H&R's website.

[AudiB720TS]

Europe does offer more A4 engine options but I don't think that would affect the spring rates that much. I got those SKU numbers directly from H&R's website.

Yes, got it.
Clearly the V6 model == 29368-2
I would therefore deduce that the "29368" is actually "29368-1".

When I talked to their rep in Germany he clearly said "-1" and "-2" stating front axle load differed and my VIN would tell me which one to use.
"-1" would be up to 1140 kg front axle load and "-2" would be 1141 kg upwards front axle load is what he told me.

I do see Eibach listing versions with lower axle loads, but they also list less lowering.

[EvolutionArmory]

You aren’t getting it. 29368 means 29368. Not that 29368 means 29368-1

You didn’t buy what you thought you were buying. That’s why you’re higher than everyone else who has H&R springs on this forum.

Because we all bought 29368 with no suffix number.


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[AudiB720TS]

You aren’t getting it. 29368 means 29368. Not that 29368 means 29368-1

You didn’t buy what you thought you were buying. That’s why you’re higher than everyone else who has H&R springs on this forum.

Because we all bought 29368 with no suffix number.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

No, I get it what you are telling me [:|]
I am just saying that assuming there are only two variants: -1 and -2, they might omitt the added number on the default option (for instance).
This is an assumption, I could be wrong.

To follow-up on my call I just wrote them an email where I explicitly list 3 versions to allow them to correct my assumption above.



Hi,
I have an Audi A4 B7, 4 cyl Avant Quattro
The VIN number is: WUAZZZ8E47A801426

Can you please tell me what H&R springs I should use:


29368
29368-1
29368-2



Thank you in advance!

[AudiB720TS]

I did a quick sanity check on ebay: If I use ebay.co.uk or ebay.de and search it will clearly list with "-1" and "-2".
If I use ebay.com and filter item location == USA then it will list only as "29368".

I think that's an indication they brought only one version of the spring to the US and removed the differentiating added designation.
It would be logical that the US is equal to European "-1" (it wouldn't make sense to make an entirely different spring for the US market).
I'll wait for the email response though.


It's not like I'm gonna have the energy to remove these springs now anyways.
Alignment scheduled for Friday. Race on Sunday.



EDIT: I found the German original site (https://www.h-r.com/de/produktfinder/#ausgabe) (.com is the US site).

https://i.imgur.com/Xyq76yj.png

Bis == up to
Ab == more than


I guess my last check now is to go down and read the print on the front spring to make sure that they packed the correct spring in the box.

[AudiB720TS]

Car sits lower today after a bunch of aggressive driving this morning. I think it might be okay actually.
I took a wheel off just to look at the spring and get the P/N for my shock absorber. It's the same shock (8E0413031DG) as on most of the A4's/S4's and spring installation looked good.
I'll keep my 4 wheel alignment appointment for tomorrow and just drive it a bit extra in the morning.

[AudiB720TS]

Car seems to have settled a bit:

Audi A4 Quattro on H&R lowering springs:
https://i.imgur.com/nPJm6MZ.jpg

I went ahead with the alignment today. Went to a shop that does a lot of track cars.
Paid for normal alignment but asked them to make it a bit more aggressive.

Also took the seats out. The front passenger seat was INCREDIBLY heavy [=(] At least twice what I expected [:(]
I definitely have to look up the cost of dressing some Sparco's in the original leather/suede. I'll do that if my day job survives the current downturn I guess.

World's heaviest 'sports' seat:
https://i.imgur.com/nUQf4X3.jpg

[Charles.waite]

Dude just be glad you have the option of sport seats. Over here in ‘Murica we only got the basic bitch seats even on S-Line cars. You had to upgrade to the S4 to get seats with any amount of side bolstering.

[AudiB720TS]

Dude just be glad you have the option of sport seats. Over here in ‘Murica we only got the basic bitch seats even on S-Line cars. You had to upgrade to the S4 to get seats with any amount of side bolstering.

That’s strange. Usually European automakers will do all the extras on the North Am cars. Like Volvo base level in the US is like top of the line here.

[Charles.waite]

I guess they thought that is fat Americans wouldn’t be able to fit in the sport seats?

The B8s got sport seats though. B6/7 series just got hosed for whatever reason.

And yea stock electric seats are so damn heavy! My b6 has a motorized drivers seat but partially manual passenger seat and it was like 1/2 the weight it felt like. Those seat motors are crazy heavy.

[EvolutionArmory]

When I bought my RS4 seats I drove the car with the passenger side seat out so I could just throw the RS4 seats in and drive home with my stock drivers seat in the hatch. On the drive down to pick up the RS4 seats the car felt awesome without the weight of the passenger seat.

They some heavy bitches. 😀

[canadianA4B7]

Drivers electric seat weighs 74 lbs, passengers non electric seat weighs in at 67 lbs. I weighed these the other day for comparison reason. The floor/carpet weighs in at 52 lbs. depending on seat brackets you use 1 fully aluminum seat with the mounting bracket weighs 28.96 lbs.

[AudiB720TS]

Drivers electric seat weighs 74 lbs, passengers non electric seat weighs in at 67 lbs. I weighed these the other day for comparison reason. The floor/carpet weighs in at 52 lbs. depending on seat brackets you use 1 fully aluminum seat with the mounting bracket weighs 28.96 lbs.

Yeah, insane.

Also agree it adds up: you’ve gotta look at the totality of base, brackets and seat. Like the Sparco steel side brackets are very heavy. Putting more money on base and brackets and a bit less on the seat probably makes sense. The overall unit will be lighter than expensive seat with steel brackets.

[Charles.waite]

Drivers electric seat weighs 74 lbs, passengers non electric seat weighs in at 67 lbs. I weighed these the other day for comparison reason. The floor/carpet weighs in at 52 lbs. depending on seat brackets you use 1 fully aluminum seat with the mounting bracket weighs 28.96 lbs.

That’s it? Damn I could have sworn it was like 20lbs. Oh well. They’re all still heavy as shit.

[canadianA4B7]

I’m using some made bottom brackets there only about 1” tall. The provided side brackets were too tall for my liking. The planted kits made for the b6/B7 but wanting to have enough space for larger legs and getting driver/passengers a bunch lower then factory will be nice. Plus side brackets are 15 lbs. if your sparcos need side brackets let me know. They may be helpful for you.

[AudiB720TS]

I’m using some made bottom brackets there only about 1” tall. The provided side brackets were too tall for my liking. The planted kits made for the b6/B7 but wanting to have enough space for larger legs and getting driver/passengers a bunch lower then factory will be nice. Plus side brackets are 15 lbs. if your sparcos need side brackets let me know. They may be helpful for you.

Youre saying you have Planted Tech side brackets sitting around? Or you have side brackets from your alu seats?


EDIT: Maybe you know - say I want to keep weight down by not using a base: can I install the seat using ONLY side brackets (assuming I'm OK with fixed position)? If 'yes' then how would I secure the OEM seat belt?

[canadianA4B7]

I have planted side brackets sitting un used. I went with bottom mount seats. Side mounts needed 2” more side height to get the seats low enough for me to get in and out comfortably and be nice and low enough to toss on a helmet without being a contortionist.

Ill need to look closely to confirm exactly what will or won’t fit. There’s some odd metal and plastic below seats that will cause issues making your own brackets and not needing to cut up the floor. The planted lower seat mounts are perfect if your 6’ tall and could mount seat directly to the plated bracket. The seats back angle will need to be specified by driver in order to be “comfy”. My bracket lift me 1” that’s it. I wud preferred mounted to brackets but it wud be too low for me. I’ve got some car time tomorrow I’ll confirm some type of lower bracket setup.

[AudiB720TS]

I have planted side brackets sitting un used. I went with bottom mount seats. Side mounts needed 2” more side height to get the seats low enough for me to get in and out comfortably and be nice and low enough to toss on a helmet without being a contortionist.

Ill need to look closely to confirm exactly what will or won’t fit. There’s some odd metal and plastic below seats that will cause issues making your own brackets and not needing to cut up the floor. The planted lower seat mounts are perfect if your 6’ tall and could mount seat directly to the plated bracket. The seats back angle will need to be specified by driver in order to be “comfy”. My bracket lift me 1” that’s it. I wud preferred mounted to brackets but it wud be too low for me. I’ve got some car time tomorrow I’ll confirm some type of lower bracket setup.

That'd be cool: if your PT side brackets are aluminum and you cut me a fair deal I'll buy them.
I'm 6" flat and I found today I scrape the ceiling a bit in stock seat. Not all the time and everywhere, but enough to be a bit annoying.
A few guys I talked to at the race track had sports seats retrofitted and had passed inspection here. Main catch seems to be the seat belt and how that's mounted.

[AudiB720TS]

Well track day started really horribly!

I came out pretty hard (had promised myself to do the opposite [headbang]) and exiting the first set of corners suddenly the car lost all power! [=(][=(][=(][=(]
Not being able to come back to throttle I had to turn on the warning lights and drive the entire lap at like 1500 RPM in complete humiliation. Shifting gear didn't help, car just wouldn't move faster and was noticeably shaky.
I started looking in my rear mirror for smoke or an oil trail on the track, but nothing. So I just steered into depot.

In depot I looked for apparent issues. With car on idle it sounded like it was running on three cylinders maybe and idle was very rough. I found the expansion tank for coolant had come loose during the hard cornering (I had most likely forgotten to redo a bolt when I removed my ECS catch can kit last year!) so I corrected that with some zip ties.

Still at that point I though maybe I had bent a rod or my balance shaft was fucked up! Thinking this I also came to the realization I was 2.5 hours away from home, possibly needing a tow truck during a pandemic [facepalm]
Would I be able to get it towed? Would I be able to get myself a ride or somehow get to a train station? At what schedule would trains depart (and would I really want to be in a train car during Covid-19?). My lack of contingency planning for this track event suddenly was very apparent [:/]

Guy I met at the track had a code reader and we pulled a throttle position error. Didn't mean shit to me, I was too caught up in thinking about how to get myself home, and what story to tell to my wife hahahaha!
Anyways, guy came back a bit later and said: 'Let's check something. I googled the error' (making things worse I was also out of internet coverage). Turned out the expansion tank had fallen onto the throttle body and knocked the connector off of the sensor! We put that connector back en the car was back in business!!! Major, major relief right there man!

I think I got this incident on video, hopefully some actual laps as well. Gonna transfer, edit and post later.

[AudiB720TS]

Okay, here's a bit of track footage.

As mentioned I had a bad start of the day with some engine problem, but it wasn't fun to watch on video so I left that out.

Once I got going again, I soon found a challenge in my rev limiter being set pretty low (can I change this in VCDS?): I hit the fuel cutoff exiting a corner in 2nd gear (didn't want to shift while not straight so kept going, hit fuel cut and lost power). This made me a bit weary of shifting higher in the powerband (seen here). Also the EBC RedStuff seemed to fade fast which sort of moved the brake point with each lap, a bit much.

Been over 15 years since I did racing, so I was very rusty I feel, almost like a virgin[o_o]
Still it was really fun overall, and I think next time I'll be a lot better just from adjusting the things I see in the video - filming oneself is really helpful.

On the track, few laps:

https://youtu.be/ZsKAIIY5pCY

[EvolutionArmory]

You can’t change fuel cut off with VCDS. Your tuner can do that though. Honestly, being able to shift beyond 7K won’t help you much on a small frame turbo.

[AudiB720TS]

You can’t change fuel cut off with VCDS. Your tuner can do that though. Honestly, being able to shift beyond 7K won’t help you much on a small frame turbo.

It’s at 6k if I recall (I can test!) because he saw valve float during the tuning session. 6.5K could give me some room. Or I’ll add a big shift light to remind me ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

Oh, that’s a different story then. 6K is super early.

[AudiB720TS]

Here's the reply from H&R. Everything looks good then.
Car feels fine, just hope it comes down a bit more in the front.

https://i.imgur.com/0Si6z1V.png

[AudiB720TS]

So my discs and pads are cooked from the track event. And the paint on the calipers looks like its been fried (all crackled now).
I understood I must either replace all the OEM stuff and fluid or use the "opportunity" to upgrade.

Thus ordered:

New OEM discs, the Brembo drilled and UV-coated
Brembo Q5 4-pot calipers (used)
New brake wear sensor/wire
New Jetta MK3 brake hose



Now I've gotta figure out what pads to use and how to get these painted properly.


Audi Q5 calipers for 320mm discs:
https://i.imgur.com/Oo0GbWE.png

[AudiB720TS]

My Q5 calipers showed up today. I'm really impressed with the condition on them (like new!), even pads are like 90%.
Also they are SO light to hold this is going to be an upgrade beyond just improved stopping power: less unsprung weight!


Behold Audi Q5 calipers:
https://i.imgur.com/90jOBnT.png


I paid less than 400$ for these! Audi wanted about 600$ per caliper for new ones.

Will grind down some casting marks then take to a paint shop for a quote next week.

[AudiB720TS]

My replacement rotors arrived this morning. Below is a mock installation with the new caliper.
I think it looks pretty good overall.



Brembo 09.A813.11 (drilled, UV-coated):
https://i.imgur.com/zUcUsid.jpg

Brembo 09.A813.11 (drilled, UV-coated):
https://i.imgur.com/MSLVIyz.png?1

Sketch for paint shop:

https://i.imgur.com/B3GzCND.png

[texasboy21]

My Q5 calipers showed up today. I'm really impressed with the condition on them (like new!), even pads are like 90%.
Also they are SO light to hold this is going to be an upgrade beyond just improved stopping power: less unsprung weight!


Behold Audi Q5 calipers:
https://i.imgur.com/90jOBnT.png


I paid less than 400$ for these! Audi wanted about 600$ per caliper for new ones.

Will grind down some casting marks then take to a paint shop for a quote next week.

Did those calipers include the hard brake lines?

[AudiB720TS]

Did those calipers include the hard brake lines?

You mean the lines to install them on the car?
No, but I ordered one new cheap brand: will take it to a hydraulics shop and make two steel braided / Teflon lines from it.

[Charles.waite]

Or do you mean the crossover lines? Because it looks like they’re there in this pictures.

[texasboy21]

Crossover lines - dont you have to swap out them in some way?

[Charles.waite]

Crossover lines - dont you have to swap out them in some way?

Not on the Q5 brembos. That’s only on the Touareg 17z calipers.

[Charles.waite]

You mean the lines to install them on the car?
No, but I ordered one new cheap brand: will take it to a hydraulics shop and make two steel braided / Teflon lines from it.

StopTech 950.33011 is the correct front line kit. Stainless with Teflon and vinyl outer sheath for like $40-50. Can’t really comment on availability in Sweden but theyre all over eBay and Amazon here.

[texasboy21]

Not on the Q5 brembos. That’s only on the Touareg 17z calipers.

Gotcha, thanks! [up]

[AudiB720TS]

StopTech 950.33011 is the correct front line kit. Stainless with Teflon and vinyl outer sheath for like $40-50. Can’t really comment on availability in Sweden but theyre all over eBay and Amazon here.

Great, thank you!

[AudiB720TS]

A minor update on the brakes: got a set of 'brembo' vinyls from eBay.
The size that seems to fit the best are 8cm across.

https://i.imgur.com/NTvnp2H.jpg?1

[AudiB720TS]

This looks interesting (430 hp from a K04, modded S3 injectors?):

https://www.facebook.com/353560864702852/posts/3071505882908323/?d=n

[i3oricua]

This looks interesting (430 hp from a K04, modded S3 injectors?):

https://www.facebook.com/353560864702852/posts/3071505882908323/?d=nIt's with R-Tech so it's bhp. Still impressive nonetheless. Venom is who the tuner her in England kept trying to get me to go with.

What's more impressive is reading through the comments and seeing R-Tech say they can modify S3 injectors to reach any lower level up to 600hp. But as usual, people like to limit the platform and won't discuss how they've done it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[AudiB720TS]

It's with R-Tech so it's bhp. Still impressive nonetheless. Venom is who the tuner her in England kept trying to get me to go with.

What's more impressive is reading through the comments and seeing R-Tech say they can modify S3 injectors to reach any lower level up to 600hp. But as usual, people like to limit the platform and won't discuss how they've done it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I think we can say BHP == CHP for the sake of argument.
I like the fact that Venom is very affordable yet they make good numbers. They're also very responsive: they seemed totally open to investigating if my Loba could be sent in for further modifications, just asked for some pictures to go by (which I haven't cared to provide yet). The injector mod (whatever it is) seems interesting too, just not sure its needed at this power level. I mean R-tech has tuned higher power K04's on stock injectors in the past.

[i3oricua]

Yea, I think they might be tapping the limits of that K04 even if it is a hybrid. If it was a bigger TTE type then I could see them going higher but forged internals or not I don't know if there is much more left in that turbo. I wonder if the Venom website has compressor maps to look to see their flow. The maps are easy to read once you learn and it's an easy learning curve.

The real advantage is that torque being available so early which is why you would forge the engine to bring it even sooner if that's possible.

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[EvolutionArmory]

I think a lot of these huge HP hybrids are just smoke and mirrors. You can’t escape the physics that a comp and exhaust housings and manifold can only flow so much air and still be efficient. Wheel size in a small housing can only get you so far And wheel design can only move the compressor map so far. Once you start stuffing huge CHRA’s in small housing all you’re really doing is adding heat and back pressure. Then you start getting knock and the back pressure will try to open your wastegate and can cause valve float. You’re way better off going with a bigger turbo and manifold to get 400 HP.

The Europeans pull some crazy numbers out of the air. Notice how they’re all base hp and not wheel numbers. [emoji6]

I bet that hybrid turbo would disappoint a lot of people on an American Dynajet giving WHP with ASE correction.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Look at this thread for example. The only place this car made substantial improvement over a K04 was at his dyno tuner. He went to 2 other dynos and both times his numbers were pretty significantly less.


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[Charles.waite]

I think it’s pretty clear that you can make hybrids perform vastly differently than stock turbos. Just look at the crazy shit Iroz is doing on the 5-cylinders with their IMS series.

The issue is more out platform severely limits what makes sense with a hybrid. Also I think our stock housings really are just tiny tiny so at you said EA, there’s only so much you can squeeze out if it before you hit a physics wall.

[EvolutionArmory]

I think it’s pretty clear that you can make hybrids perform vastly differently than stock turbos. Just look at the crazy shit Iroz is doing on the 5-cylinders with their IMS series.

The issue is more out platform severely limits what makes sense with a hybrid. Also I think our stock housings really are just tiny tiny so at you said EA, there’s only so much you can squeeze out if it before you hit a physics wall.

Yeah, and then you start getting back pressure that causes your valves to float. Using a K03 housing will make any serious hybrid fall on its face and K04 housings can only flow so much too.

There’s a problem going on with B8 K04 cars right now. On stage 1-2 cars and big turbo cars they don’t have issues with valve float because the exhaust housings and manifolds can handle the the flow.

Aggressive tunes on B8 K04 cars are having tons of issues with valve float because the housings and manifolds cause too much back pressure in the manifold and the valve springs get overcome. It doesn’t happen on IHI stock turbos and big turbos because the back pressure is way worse on a K04 pushing a lot of air.

I know our cars are different but the theory is the same. The more air you try to flow through a housing that is too small, the more PRE turbine back pressure you will generate.

Hybrids on our platform just exacerbate this condition a lot because we’re limited to the stock or K04 manifold and exhaust housing AR and at that point, you’re just better off going with a more efficient turbo and manifold.


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[Charles.waite]

I don’t spend much (any?) time on the b8 forums, but that’s really interesting that those issues are cropping up.

I’m still of the mindset that hybrids sorta don’t make a ton of sense. You’re better off getting a quality manifold and slapping a GTX or EFR on there. You don’t have to deal with compromised dimensions or flow issues like you’re talking about.

Granted, the cost is higher, but by the time you account for all the supporting parts the are required past ~300hp anyway, what’s an extra $600-1000 for a good manifold on top of everything else?

And you have the added benefit of not spinning the nuts off a turbo and having it operate far out if it’s efficiency zone just to hit the advertised numbers. I’d prefer a “lazy” tune on a small GTX or EFR over a balls out k04 simply because the stresses on the components are within design tolerances.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yup. I’d rather have a GTX 2860R with one of the smaller exhaust housing AR’s to keep spool lower than have a K04 manifold and housing limit the power on a hybrid.

The bigger turbo will make that power much more efficiently and if you want to later, swap the exhaust housing to a bigger AR and make more top end power.

Why dick around with trying to make a turbo work outside of its efficiency range.

The LO400 is probably about as wild as you want to push a K04. Anything after that, just go big turbo.


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[AudiB720TS]

Yup. I’d rather have a GTX 2860R with one of the smaller exhaust housing AR’s to keep spool lower than have a K04 manifold and housing limit the power on a hybrid.

The bigger turbo will make that power much more efficiently and if you want to later, swap the exhaust housing to a bigger AR and make more top end power.

Why dick around with trying to make a turbo work outside of its efficiency range.

The LO400 is probably about as wild as you want to push a K04. Anything after that, just go big turbo.


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Yeah, generally I agree. I just don't want the attention of a non stock looking manifold and turbo.
Anyways if we look at their highest spec K04 turbo (460 bhp albeit on race fuel) it is quite interesting:

Venom460+ Ball Bearing hybrid Specification

Venom Hybrid Turbos own design Aluminium Billet Hi-flow Compressor Wheel With Extended Tip Technology
Machined Compressor Housing, Profiled and Polished to Minimum Tolerances for Optimum Flow of The Charged Air
Custom Turbine wheel designed by Venom hybrid Turbos
Garrett GT28 Full Ceramic Ball Bearing Cartridge
Machined Turbine Housing with Additional Clearance To Reduce Back Pressure
Ported Turbine Housing to Optimise Flow of The Exhaust Gases
Modified And Up Rated OEM Actuator
Silencer Baffle Delete
Designed, Machined and Assembled in House
Fully Balanced On Our Vibration Sort Rig
Calibrated to Track Specification
Power Output
95ron 385-395BHP
99ron 425-445BHP
102ron 450-460BHP
All based on findings without water meth
Maximum boost pressure 2.5 bar peak and 2.2 running pressure

[Charles.waite]

Oh yea I always forget you guys have crazy strict inspections in Europe.

Here is Seattle we don’t even have emissions testing anymore, much less inspections. I just pay my $200 registration fee (or $650 in the case of my wife’s Q7!!!) and that’s that. Before they just did an OBD scan and you passed or failed. Now There’s absolutely nothing. Which as a car enthusiast I’m happy about (even though I’ve never been remotely worried about failing before) but as a environmentally conscious person, I’m a little confused by.

At least I’m not in California though. Their testing/inspection stuff is ridiculous.

[AudiB720TS]

I ended up painting the calipers myself. Took them to a shop to have them glass blasted. Guy sand blasted them instead [headbang]
Found some use for the 3M full face mask I got in order to use during the Covid-19 pandemic (got "regular" N95 masks too).
Went with the VHT primer, paint and clear coat.

Masking done:
https://i.imgur.com/F0eSnTA.png

Primer done:
https://i.imgur.com/dDtlfg0.png

All done:
https://i.imgur.com/1t4Wfjo.png

[EvolutionArmory]

A heavier media with give the finish more tooth to stick to. He probably did you a favor.

[AudiB720TS]

Trying (still) to decide on what pistons to get.

IE is listing different ratio on Mahle pistons compared to Mahle website given the same SKU
IE is listing different ration on JE pistons compared to others given the same SKU.

They use different gaskets or what? How can I have confidence in what I am buying?

For example:

https://i.imgur.com/26Ypkar.png

[EvolutionArmory]

JE uses the wrong headgasket thickness so their advertised CR is off. The IE ratios are what they calculated.

Get the Mahle piston at 9.8:1.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I bought the JE 10.38:1 pistons and I get crazy timing pull. I’m fixing it with a headgasket spacer. Go lower than 10:1


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[i3oricua]

Trying (still) to decide on what pistons to get.

IE is listing different ratio on Mahle pistons compared to Mahle website given the same SKU
IE is listing different ration on JE pistons compared to others given the same SKU.

They use different gaskets or what? How can I have confidence in what I am buying?

For example:

https://i.imgur.com/26Ypkar.pngMight be worth sending JE and email and ask them what they say. The only other option is to order them and have them calculated by a machine shop but I don't know that all that hassle is worth it.

I'll try to find the conversation but I have read a few people who have had trouble with Mahle pistons detonating on them and switched to JE because of strength differences. If I find the convo I'll link it here.

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[AudiB720TS]

Thanks guys,

I sent JE an email a while back. They sort of stopped responding / didn’t respond to the specifics,

EA sucks to hear you’ve gotta pull the head again...

Maybe Mahle then if I want to stay on 20mm pin.

[AudiB720TS]

Oh yeah, the Mahle pistons have 9.3 compression according to the Mahle product sheet (http://www.us.mahle.com/media/usa/motorsports/vw-tfsi-web.pdf).

[EvolutionArmory]

Oh yeah, the Mahle pistons have 9.3 compression according to the Mahle product sheet (http://www.us.mahle.com/media/usa/motorsports/vw-tfsi-web.pdf).

Get the IE spec 9.8:1 pistons. I wish I did but couldn’t wait for them.


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[AudiB720TS]

Mother******, just saw somebody post in the local for sale an 820 WHP A4 B7 with VR6 conversion. Damn.

Me? I’ve finally gotten myself into a pistol shooting club (crazy difficult here) so will be spending loads of $$$ trying to get my 9mm license. 3000$ in training fees on a .22lr to get there. Guess my rods and pistons will have to wait a bit. Will complete the head soon and maybe install that before the other parts.

[i3oricua]

Mother******, just saw somebody post in the local for sale an 820 WHP A4 B7 with VR6 conversion. Damn.

Me? I’ve finally gotten myself into a pistol shooting club (crazy difficult here) so will be spending loads of $$$ trying to get my 9mm license. 3000$ in training fees on a .22lr to get there. Guess my rods and pistons will have to wait a bit. Will complete the head soon and maybe install that before the other parts.You'll enjoy the shooting a lot more. Competitive shooting can be very addictive.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Just move to the US and I’ll give you one of mine as a gift when you’re legal 😉

That blows my mind that you’re basically being taxed a shit load of money to shoot a different caliber.

[Charles.waite]

Conversely, it blows my mind that there ARENT such stringent requirements to certify someone on different firearms here in the states.

I’d prefer a place where you’re required to take difficult certifications in order to wield devices whose intent is pretty much only to kill (people, animals, etc). Not trying to start a political debate. I have no beef with guns at all. I just don’t understand why second amendment folks (again not saying you’re one of these people) think there shouldn’t be restrictions around being able to purchase and register them.

I also think the same way about drivers licenses. I truly don’t believe it’s your RIGHT to have a drivers license. It’s a privilege one should earn by demonstrating they’re actual ally capable of doing it safely.

/rant

Anyway, I realize this stuff gets “political”, not trying to start a fight. I think the fact that it costs so much over there is maybe unfair, but there needs to be SOME barrier to entry for this stuff, IMO. Doesn’t have to be financial, as that could be exclusionary to people without the financial backing.

[EvolutionArmory]

Having to pay 3000 dollars extortion money to shoot a gun other than a .22 caliber pistol is unreasonable. If a 9mm permit is 3000 dollars, what’s a .45 permit? 10K? 🤣

gun politics aside, it’s unreasonable. I’m sure it puts enjoying shooting out of the reach of many people, which is their goal I’m sure.

[Charles.waite]

Yea. I think the monetary tax is definitely unreasonable. Requiring training and certification is good, imo, but having to pay what is essentially a licensing cost to do that sorta sucks and isn’t equitable at all.

For instance my dad is retired and operates a small farm now in Montana. They have 50 acres butted you against National Forest. They’ve had plenty of issues with foxes, coyotes, and brown bears and he has a rifle and a hand cannon (.45 revolver) that he needs to have for protection against the pests (the foxes and wolves) and personal safety in case he finds himself between a momma and baby bear out on their wooded property.

Requiring such expensive licensing as a barrier to entry is very much a barrier to personal safety. As you likely know, shooting a bear with anything less than a .45 really just pisses it off, you might as well poke it with a sharp stick. A .45 is loud enough and has the stopping power (if you’re really in a bad spot) to actually drive off a bear. A .22 or 9mm won’t do shit against a bear.

But yea the barriers to entry should be training and certification, but not dependent on forking over cash. Having money doesn’t mean you know how to safely wield a gun.

[EvolutionArmory]

If you bring a pistol that doesn’t have the word Magnum in the name to a bear fight, you’re dead. 🤣

[Charles.waite]

Well you might not die but you might be missing some limbs when the bear is done with you.

I forgot, they also have Lynx and Cougars. So yea plenty of wildlife that could kill you.

[AudiB720TS]

Just move to the US and I’ll give you one of mine as a gift when you’re legal 😉

That blows my mind that you’re basically being taxed a shit load of money to shoot a different caliber.

Yeah, I actually lived in the US for a few years, but it was in a state and county (Cook county, IL) with lots of restrictions so I never got to shooting there.

The setup for handguns here is very restrictive: Have to be in a club to pursue permit. contacted several clubs many years ago. No admission. Tried again this year: found an existing member, used him for reference, then filed application to join club, had to come in for a one hour interview, passed the interview, did two hours of intro on laws and formalities, signed up.

Now have to shoot .22 pistol one handed for 12 sessions. Have to shoot gold 3 times at 25m one handed, no optics. Then have to do formal training for pistol license. Then pay for another 12 sessions on the .22. But after that you can apply for 9mm, .45 and so on (so you go from .22 to any other caliber).

It’s been a long standing goal of mine, so just gotta fork up and do it.

In other news: ordered new lifters for the S3 head and an aluminum MAF sensor bung for my custom intake side project.


https://i.imgur.com/MKC8oFN.png

[EvolutionArmory]

It figures you moved to the U.S. as someone who enjoys shooting and moved to the most liberal (and corrupt) part of it.

Being a gun guy and a car guy is hard. I can’t afford to focus on both and I make guns for a living 🤣

[texasboy21]

Sounds like y'all need a little more Texas in your life. Not unheard of for kids at young as 8-9 years old to get their first gun and start learning gun safety and how to shoot. Im not into hunting, but I do enjoy shooting skeet or going to the range every now and again with my small collection of older shotguns (newest being about 55 years old).

[EvolutionArmory]

Not me. NH has less gun laws than Texas. [emoji41]


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[Charles.waite]

Live free or die!

[i3oricua]

With my recent move to Colorado I finally get to have my guns back since I couldn't take them to the UK with me. Just picked them up yesterday from my parents house so now I can state at them in this hotel room as I drive cross country.

Enjoy the guns and shooting. That's an interesting requirement, the one handed shooting but shouldn't be difficult with the .22.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Good luck with the drive. I hope you’re following storage and transport laws per state and don’t have to drive through the lame states like NY or NJ.

Welcome home.

[AudiB720TS]

Today I started to prepare the car for the annual emissions and function tests.

I have had a fog light out for a while so I need to take the intake off (since the FMIC blocks access through the front).
While doing that I decided to also clean my intake tract and service the BMC air filter AND to take some initial measurements for a possible "CAI" build. After sizing things up a bit it seems feasible to route a pipe down around that crash bar structure / pillar and place the filter near the entry I have in the fog light cover (I cut mine out partially). It also seems feasible to maintain the entire MAF housing. The only concern beyond finding piping and maybe couplers is mounting a heat shield and maybe a support bracket for the CAI so it doesn't rattle.

Anyways: it turned out my fog light wasn't working because the Audi people never reconnected the plug when respraying the front bumper [headbang] At least I have spare bulbs now.


I took the entire intake tract off for cleaning:
https://i.imgur.com/Bti5Je6.jpg

BMC filter drying after clean:
https://i.imgur.com/vPRldPe.jpg

I might keep the MAF as is instead of welding a sensor:
https://i.imgur.com/ZSPSkRL.jpg


Measurements. Ideas:
https://i.imgur.com/p3FSEFz.jpg

Approximate routing idea - filter sits near fog light:
https://i.imgur.com/bP2ue1F.jpg

How to use a hair dryer:
https://i.imgur.com/pVtaLhz.jpg

Wife came out with coffee as I was wrapping things up:
https://i.imgur.com/4TNCPYN.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Here are the measurements that matters:



Section
Inner diameter


Turbo inlet
60 mm


MAF
67 mm



Based on the above, I am thinking I will add a aluminum 60 mm to 70 mm reducer and then a 70 mm pipe(s).
The MAF sensor bung welds into the 70 mm piping. Obviously its going to be more air volume than the MAF expects, but its not a huge difference.
I know for example the RAM Air intake for the S3 is 70 mm at the MAF section (http://giac-russia.ru/stage-2-%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-ea113-k04/). I then add a 70mm filter, probably another BMC. (https://www.bmc-air-filter-shop.com/040.020@FBTW70-150P/BMC-Twin-Air-Filter-FBTW70-150P.htm)

Obviously I don't want to spend too much on this without seeing it on a dyno, so I'm thinking I will start with a series of sections using silicon couplers, then if things work well (sounds good and adds horsepower) I will have the sections welded and add some kind of bracket. Thoughs?

[AudiB720TS]

Custom Intake
I've received the MAF flange/bung for my custom intake side project. It's a bit (to say the least) disappointing because the bolt holes are not threaded and literally "holes".
It's not like I want to put nuts on the bolts on the inside of the intake tract. Filling the holes and tapping them for bolts seems like it would be expensive too. I think most likely I will just throw this away (recycle it).

Creation Motorsports MAF flange:
https://i.imgur.com/TWKkyDJ.png


Engine Build
I wasn't going to do this but an opportunity to buy a complete set of brand new Golf R camshafts came up. It was (one of several) mistake to sell my S3 intake camshaft earlier to finance the build.
I figured then that I had an upgraded HPFP and didn't need a larger fuel lobed cam. I now feel that, since I will be looking for more power, since I will need to tune the car again anyway for runner flap deletion,
I might as well go with a S3/Golf R cam rather than addressing fuel elsewhere. This way I don't have to dissemble my original engine that much either and I can sell it at a higher price.

Buying both cams allows me to compare the exhaust cams to make sure they are the same (different part numbers) and if so, replace my used cam with a new one.

As far as my eye can tell they are identical, but notably the older exhaust cam has a "line" at the end of it that does not appear on the new cam. Problem?

Brand new Golf R intake (top) and exhaust (bottom) cams:
https://i.imgur.com/4rgVysk.png

Brand new Golf R exhaust cam, timing:
https://i.imgur.com/93TvDVI.png

The used exhaust cam has one "line" the new cam lacks:
https://i.imgur.com/WnmX20D.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TwIYMY0.png

[AudiB720TS]

Thoughts on the above?

Today I discussed a lightweight crank pulley with my engine builder. He thought it absolutely fine on an i4 configuration. Order placed.

Finding horsepowers here and there, wherever they are! It all adds up!

[EvolutionArmory]

Hey, I just spent 10 minutes figuring out how much lighter my new tires are compared to my old ones so I feel you. Yes, get gains where you can.

The crank pulley isn’t gonna do much for you by itself. A crank pulley, light flywheel, light wheels and tires, lighter rotors, etc when added up can make a good difference.

I’m gonna try to find a black RS4 aluminum hood next. Gotta lighten up this fat pig of an Avant somehow.

As far as commenting on your cams, we hashed that all out already. Unless you can measure the lift (easier to do) and duration (harder to do) with a proper gauge and have hard evidence, you’re just gonna get the same argument as before.

I believe the intake cam is the same except for the HPFP lobe.

I believe the exhaust cam has the same lift as stock but longer duration. The exhaust should be where the difference is because the K04 is limited in what it can flow due to a small exhaust housing and manifold.

As far as that line machined into it, I couldn’t tell you what it’s for or why it’s there. Sorry.


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[AudiB720TS]

I am also looking for an RS4 aluminum hood. They sell for about 1000$ here used, but maybe one shows up cheaper, mistaken for a regular hood. Weight savings should be good: I had both an aluminum and a CF hood (probably a lot of plastic/glass fiber content) and the stock aluminum hood was lighter, just not as good looking.

Someone suggested that line on the cam is from the cam seal, but I’ll have to research it further. I guess I could get a line machined on the cam if necessary.

[EvolutionArmory]

The RS4 hood is like 22 pounds lighter. I’m not actively searching for one right now but if one comes my way and the price is right I’ll see. Carbon fiber will be even lighter but I don’t want to mess with worrying about it staying latched.

I keep going back and forth between wether or not I really need a back seat too. [emoji3]


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[Black s5]

Old line is a wear line created from the cam seal.
We run only 1 cam seal and that’s on the exhaust cam.
New cam will eventually create its own from the new seal.As the seal gets harder from age it creates a groove in the metal.Usually causes a oil leak from there.

[AudiB720TS]

Old line is a wear line created from the cam seal.
We run only 1 cam seal and that’s on the exhaust cam.
New cam will eventually create its own from the new seal.As the seal gets harder from age it creates a groove in the metal.Usually causes a oil leak from there.

Awesome, that’s the confirmation I needed.
Thanks

[AudiB720TS]

Today I was talking to shops about getting the head decked and assembled.
I unwrapped it just to see what parts I'm missing and turns out its already decked by the guy doing the porting.
Nice surprise. I don't remember telling him to do that.


https://i.imgur.com/7U5NhEu.jpg

[EvolutionArmory]

Make sure you know how much he took from the head and add that to your headgasket thickness.


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[AudiB720TS]

The custom intake side project is back in play [wrench] 'Cos why not!?
I got another flange to try out, this one a lot better. Brief video of impressions.

2.0T MAF sensor flanges comparison:

https://youtu.be/dyYPlhWqKos

Enjoy.

[AudiB720TS]

Anybody seen a lifter conversion on the fuel pump done on the longitudinal engine? The adapter plate looks to be pretty thick so I wonder what it will do to fuel line fittings and general clearance.


https://media.bar-tek-tuning.de/media/image/fa/bb/44/umbaukit_neu_rollen.jpg

[i3oricua]

Anybody seen a lifter conversion on the fuel pump done on the longitudinal engine? The adapter plate looks to be pretty thick so I wonder what it will do to fuel line fittings and general clearance.


https://media.bar-tek-tuning.de/media/image/fa/bb/44/umbaukit_neu_rollen.jpgI have it done. You'll need to bend the lines a small amount to the HPFP to get the lines to fit.

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[AudiB720TS]

I have it done. You'll need to bend the lines a small amount to the HPFP to get the lines to fit.

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

Thanks,
What kid did you get? iABED? RTMG? RevLimit?

[i3oricua]

Thanks,
What kid did you get? iABED? RTMG? RevLimit?I didn't know anyone else made one so I got the iABED.

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[AudiB720TS]

I didn't know anyone else made one so I got the iABED.

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Yes, lots of vendors make it. Possibly all based on the iABED design (they claim not of course). I think I will get one made up on demand (have CAD drawing). Another fun side project.

[AudiB720TS]

Ok, what a mess with all these roller conversions! The more I research them the stranger it gets. Will list my findings here for discussion.

Might have to back off and just keep changing that follower.

Other news:

- head is being assembled today

- sent 3rd main cap to be machined because why not. Kevin C shared a drawing. 100$ worth of machining (cheap!). Might have the same shop do my HPFP/vacuum pump housing if I pursue the roller conversion on the pump.

- I might fail inspection this year as their redoing my garage floor just now. Won’t have access to fix various faults on the car prior deadline ...let’s see.

[AudiB720TS]

Why consider a roller tappet conversion?
Fueling or even engine failure may happen if the cam follower (piston) wears and breaks.
With an upgraded fuel system (pump, fprv...) the service interval of the follower is shorter.
By converting to a roller tappet follower the risk of failure is mitigated.

Key takeaways
• Designs differ somewhat (use of cam lobe, use of spring etc.)
• Fuel delivery increases with some vendors due to redesigned fuel lobe
• Specification and parts uncertainty with 'open source' versus prohibitively high cost with all-inclusive iABED offering

https://i.imgur.com/ROaeAxV.png

Now, with all that out of the way I have decided to CNC "my own" adapter based on this (https://grabcad.com/library/roller-adapter-hpfp-tfsi-1) drawing.
I found the person who created it and now have at least a decent idea about how to approach it: bolts and O-ring sorted. Just have to understand what follower part number and locate somebody to machine the cover [wrench]


https://i.imgur.com/0nEi3Br.png

[i3oricua]

I think I have the CAD files if you need them. I'll have to look and see because I was considering going that route. I don't have the info the cover though and how to alter that.

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[AudiB720TS]

I think I have the CAD files if you need them. I'll have to look and see because I was considering going that route. I don't have the info the cover though and how to alter that.

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

Thanks,
No, I have it downloaded and corrected and converted to various formats so the drawing is “good to go”. A friend is 3D printing it for me in ABS as a mock-up and then I have several quotes on CNC in 6061. The cover is increased to approx 33 mm.

[Charles.waite]

I’d be careful about trusting a 3D printed mock-up simply because most printers aren’t even close to capable of meeting tolerances required for something like this. However just to assess general fitment (particularly clearance from the cam lobes) it’s likely fine.

[AudiB720TS]

I’d be careful about trusting a 3D printed mock-up simply because most printers aren’t even close to capable of meeting tolerances required for something like this. However just to assess general fitment (particularly clearance from the cam lobes) it’s likely fine.

Yes, just to understand the part better. And the CNC people had some complaints which I think is fixed now, just want to make sure.

[AudiB720TS]

OK, I'm guessing this is not widely known, but the BHZ (S3) has higher spec:d main cap bolts compared to the other 2.0T engines.
Certainly I bought the regular bolts first, and today I went to Audi to pay double for the BHZ bolts.
I suppose it's a cheaper alternative to getting ARP bolts in terms of cost benefit over stock bolts for most ppl?

In the picture:


Left: New Febi Bilstein 2.0t bolts 10.9, cost about 25 USD for 10 pcs
Middle: Used BHZ bolt showing 12.9 marking
Right: New BHZ bolt with triple squared socket, 12.9, cost about 50 USD for 10 pcs (available only through VAG)



https://i.imgur.com/VjeFQQJ.jpg


https://www.fastenerdata.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/technical/metric_tensile.JPG

[EvolutionArmory]

ARP main cap bolts means you should get your block line honed. No need to do that if you use OEM main cap bolts and torque them to OEM spec.

Use the main caps that came with your block and use the OEM fasteners that are meant for your block. [emoji6]

If your block was line honed at Audi using the stock fastener, don’t change to a different fastener. Use OEM for your block. You aren’t going to exceed the strength of the OEM fastener at your power level.

Keep it simple.


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[AudiB720TS]

In this case it is the correct bolt for my block (BHZ), but it’s also identical (save for head) to the regular bolt. Block itself is identical AFAIK so it seems it’s an ‘upgrade’ to non BHZ as well, no?

Power goal of 400hp could change real soon ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

If you have a BHZ block, use those fasteners.

I wouldn’t use them as the torque spec might be different for them VS a regular BPG or BWT fastener. If you can verify the torque spec is the same, maybe it doesn’t matter.


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[AudiB720TS]

If you can verify the torque spec is the same, maybe it doesn’t matter.

That’s the remaining challenge right now: torque spec isn’t readily available for the BHZ or hard to find. I guess it was one car for one year. I expect to be calling or visiting Audi about it.

[EvolutionArmory]

What about using the CDL specs? Maybe they are the same?


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[AudiB720TS]

What about using the CDL specs? Maybe they are the same?


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Yes, gonna look into that next week.
Got garage access now so changing filters and fluids and brake pads plus discs AND snow tires today. Back pain.

Side note: a lowered car absorbs a whole lot a more mud and stuff underneath. More risk of rust for sure.

[AudiB720TS]

Argh, as EvolutionArmory suggested it was my inner front pads that was worn out. Problem is, I was sent the wrong Brembo replacement pads (too small) so had to put it back again. I wired the wear indicator wires together to remove the CEL. Will try sort new pads but running out of time.

[AudiB720TS]

3D printed (mockup) roller conversion adapter:


https://i.ibb.co/Wyq2sxS/C01434-C0-552-F-485-F-A760-ED8382-B6-C473.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Ok, confused again!

Mahle Powerpak pistons are on sale on ECS.
They are listed as CR 9.1(!) At IE they are listed (no sale) at CR 9.7.

What to believe? Why can’t they get this right?

[i3oricua]

Ok, confused again!

Mahle Powerpak pistons are on sale on ECS.
They are listed as CR 9.1(!) At IE they are listed (no sale) at CR 9.7.

What to believe? Why can’t they get this right?Did you check the part # to make sure they are the same? I'm sure you did but asking the obvious.

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

[AudiB720TS]

Did you check the part # to make sure they are the same? I'm sure you did but asking the obvious.

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

Different as listed by ECS but they list it as an IE product, whereas IE only has one (82.5mm) Mahle piston and its at 9.7

[AudiB720TS]

So if it’s an IE spec piston it should be 9.7, unless IE calculated it wrong and ECS got it right. The Mahle US site also has it at 9.1 I believe so it’s two against one here.

I sure don’t want no 9.1 CR.

[AudiB720TS]

In between: http://www.us.mahle.com/media/usa/motorsports/vw-tfsi-web.pdf

Too much money to take chances on.

[Charles.waite]

Might be a good idea to shoot IE a note and ask. It’s possible they’re selling custom mahle pistons. Or maybe they have a different method of calculating cr. I noticed that a while back but since I wasn’t seriously entertaining powerpaks I never dig any further.

[EvolutionArmory]

Ok, confused again!

Mahle Powerpak pistons are on sale on ECS.
They are listed as CR 9.1(!) At IE they are listed (no sale) at CR 9.7.

What to believe? Why can’t they get this right?

IE has their own spec Powerpak pistons. They were back ordered when I was doing my engine or they would be in mine.

Call IE.


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[AudiB720TS]

IE responds that if ECS is using the same part number (they’re not) then the IE spec is correct and ECS is wrong.

That doesn’t get me anywhere really. ECS is using a different part number but they list it as an IE product.

Only thing I can deduce from this is they are not helping their sales (either party) by not having accurate CR rating (whatever is the correct number).

I’ll just buy rods then.

[Charles.waite]

Who knows. Personally I cross reference part numbers and check manufacturers spec sheets. I never trust a reseller like ECS over the manufacturer.

But yea 9.1 is super low, 9.3 is still quite low, and part of the reason I chose to stick with OEM Mahle pistons over the powerpaks. That and I already had drop in rods AND the OEM ones were cheaper and could easily handle the power I’m aiming for.

[AudiB720TS]

Who knows. Personally I cross reference part numbers and check manufacturers spec sheets. I never trust a reseller like ECS over the manufacturer.

But yea 9.1 is super low, 9.3 is still quite low, and part of the reason I chose to stick with OEM Mahle pistons over the powerpaks. That and I already had drop in rods AND the OEM ones were cheaper and could easily handle the power I’m aiming for.

I’m playing with that idea as well, again.
So what power are you aiming for?
I’d like mine to hold for 500 hp if I change turbo later on.

[Dpartinvr4]

My JE's were spot on at 10.9:1

[Charles.waite]

10.9 is pretty high, stock is 10.5.

My goals are roughly in line with what EA is hitting. K04-ish power. So 300 at the wheels.

My waffling is happening when it comes to the turbo. I’m not really into the whole meth thing, so it means I might be jumping up to a hybrid k04 or a small GTX or EFR. But either way 300 at the wheels seems ideal, though I’d settle for 10% less if that means I don’t have to dick around with meth and other supporting mods that aren’t well suited for a daily.

The slippery slope is real though. Because if I go GTX or EFR then I’m leaving a ton of potential on the table at 300whp. But to realize that potential means spending boatloads to eliminate fuel bottlenecks which doesn’t excite me a lot, haha.

[EvolutionArmory]

IE responds that if ECS is using the same part number (they’re not) then the IE spec is correct and ECS is wrong.

That doesn’t get me anywhere really. ECS is using a different part number but they list it as an IE product.

Only thing I can deduce from this is they are not helping their sales (either party) by not having accurate CR rating (whatever is the correct number).

I’ll just buy rods then.

The high output FSI motor already has sub 10:1 CR so you should be fine with drop in rods and stock pistons.


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[EvolutionArmory]

10.9 is pretty high, stock is 10.5.

My goals are roughly in line with what EA is hitting. K04-ish power. So 300 at the wheels.

My waffling is happening when it comes to the turbo. I’m not really into the whole meth thing, so it means I might be jumping up to a hybrid k04 or a small GTX or EFR. But either way 300 at the wheels seems ideal, though I’d settle for 10% less if that means I don’t have to dick around with meth and other supporting mods that aren’t well suited for a daily.

The slippery slope is real though. Because if I go GTX or EFR then I’m leaving a ton of potential on the table at 300whp. But to realize that potential means spending boatloads to eliminate fuel bottlenecks which doesn’t excite me a lot, haha.

Just throw a K04 on it. Anything else and you’ll have a 5 year build thread trying to figure out why it doesn’t work. Shit, even my K04 build has had issues....quite a few.

This platform sucks 🤣🤣

If we weren’t so fuel limited you could trip over 300 wheel without breaking a sweat with the smallest GTX turbo.


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[Charles.waite]

No kidding. All you need on a 1.8t is 550 or something injectors and your pick of like 10 different, fairly cheap fuel pumps and, boom, fueling problems solved for upwards of 500hp.

As you said, our platform sucks, haha.

[EvolutionArmory]

No kidding. All you need on a 1.8t is 550 or something injectors and your pick of like 10 different, fairly cheap fuel pumps and, boom, fueling problems solved for upwards of 500hp.

As you said, our platform sucks, haha.

I found a mint 05 USP last year. I should have grabbed it up....


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[Charles.waite]

I mean 1.8ts aren’t some amazing engine, they have ZERO torque under 2000rpms even with a k03, but making decent power on a mild BT setup is quite easy.

[EvolutionArmory]

Compression ratio is a full point or more lower than our cars are. Low end suffers a little.

Great for boost though and you can throw a ton of boost at them. No fuel issues too.

I miss my MK4 sometimes.


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[AudiB720TS]

Expressed some front brake pads that arrived last night. Installed them this morning before my first morning meeting.
Possible oil leak (or just spill) from the oil filter housing following oil change a few days ago. Don't really want to deal with that now.
In decent shape now.

[AudiB720TS]

Dragy GPS purchased (again). Get ready for some wild pulls on snow tires next week ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

Throw some oil leak dye in there. It will tell you if it’s just messy oil change oil or an actual leak if your housing looks like Martian piss after a day of driving.


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[AudiB720TS]

Throw some oil leak dye in there. It will tell you if it’s just messy oil change oil or an actual leak if your housing looks like Martian piss after a day of driving.


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Will Google it (never heard of).

[EvolutionArmory]

These kits usually come with some oil dye that glows in UV light and come with a UV light.

Super handy for finding leaks because the source will have glowing oil around it.


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[Dpartinvr4]

The liquimoly molygen is like that208112

[AudiB720TS]

The liquimoly molygen is like that208112

Yes, found an additive they (LM) sell as well.


Rods purchased!
I went with my original plan to keep the weight down as much as possible. Just 514 grams each.
Need to find lightweight pistons now, with 20mm pin.


Just need to get these boys to Sweden without paying too much in customs [;)]


https://tomson.com.pl/eng_pl_K1-Technologies-043DQ14144-H-beam-rods-Audi-VW-1-8T-20V-3559_1.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Passed inspection!

Car passed with flying colors! Only remarks where: "is that your Audi outside?" (loud noise coming from emissions test station) and "your neighbors must love you!".



https://i.imgur.com/NQx64Xn.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Selection criteria:


Piston should maintain the 20mm wrist pin size of the stock connecting rod
Piston should maintain the 82.5mm diameter of the stock cylinder bore
Piston should lower compression ratio to be in ballpark of CR 9.8:1 (Audi S3/ VW Golf R)


Preferences:


Lower weight preferred
Coating preferred (skirt)
Proven design preferred


https://i.imgur.com/2JyXpHT.png


Thoughts?

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s the pic of the CR calculator screen I used for the pistons you sent me.

208293

This is with an OEM headgasket and with a zero deck height. You’ll need to know how much was taken from your block and head if they were decked to know the CR you’ll get with them installed in the car.

If your engine was decked, CR will go up.

Also keep in mind that JE pistons uses a generic head gasket spec when they calculate their CR numbers.

Edit: also keep in mind that if you lower compression too far, power can suffer. The Golf R piston is already about as low as you want to go on a K04. Going lower is only gonna benefit you if you’re running high boost big turbo kits.


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[AudiB720TS]

Here’s the pic of the CR calculator screen I used for the pistons you sent me.

208293

This is with an OEM headgasket and with a zero deck height. You’ll need to know how much was taken from your block and head if they were decked to know the CR you’ll get with them installed in the car.

If your engine was decked, CR will go up.

Also keep in mind that JE pistons uses a generic head gasket spec when they calculate their CR numbers.


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Thanks!

[AudiB720TS]

Updated the table.

The big thing here is that:


JE 9.5:1 more likely to be 9.7:1
Mahle piston more likely to be 9.3:1*



* CTS Turbo carries the same part number (https://www.ctsturbo.com/product/mahle-powerpack-for-2-0t-fsi-82-5mm-bore-9-71cr-piston-set/) as advertised by IE, however upon asking them it looks like Mahle replaced it with a 9.3:1 piston, or the actual CR was just corrected. Certainly the weight of the 9.3:1 piston is the same as the IE/CTS 9.7:1 piston (a higher CR piston is likely to have a higher weight than a lower CR piston) suggesting it is the same piston given different CR ratings between manufacturer and reseller [evilmad]


https://i.imgur.com/kuUl2Q3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vOPQGcr.png

If anybody wants to read or edit the source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sjkf6So0TSgHdCpcS-Dmvqb8JbtOPgrGyxXLJm5S-98/edit?usp=sharing


So right now I am thinking the better choice is the JE or the CP piston. I wonder if the head can be decked further to increase CR towards 9.8:1 or higher without adverse effects on timing or on clearance (certainly the CP pistons are spec:d for high lift cams which would be similar to shaving the head more and having the valves open closer to the piston floor. Thoughts?

[EvolutionArmory]

Don’t deck more of your block and head. Buy a piston with a slightly higher CR than you want and use a custom head gasket to bring it down to where you want.

Or just use your stock pistons which are already at a pretty low CR for this motor.


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[AudiB720TS]

Don’t deck more of your block and head. Buy a piston with a slightly higher CR than you want and use a custom head gasket to bring it down to where you want.

Or just use your stock pistons which are already at a pretty low CR for this motor.


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Cannot use stock pistons anymore as they are 21mm pin. The rods I got are 20mm.


I ran the calculator you helped me to on the JE's and it comes out as CR 9.2:1 on the CP Carrillo's [=(]

So right now those JE's are the highest and cheapest (on sale for about 540 USD).

Going to measure my head gasket now (you used the value of 83.5, I want to make sure its not 83.0).

[EvolutionArmory]

Head gasket bore size doesn’t change CR that much.

Here’s a thought. Instead of pulling all your hair out figuring out CR because you bought rods already, why don’t you just return the rods and buy the right rods to run stock pistons. [emoji3]

Stock R and S3 pistons are already a pretty good CR for higher HP builds and there’s plenty of R’s with stock blocks making more power than you will.

Just trying to simplify this for you.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I changed the HG bore in the calculator. It’s still 9.7:1. It didn’t even change a half point.


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[AudiB720TS]

Head gasket bore size doesn’t change CR that much.

Here’s a thought. Instead of pulling all your hair out figuring out CR because you bought rods already, why don’t you just return the rods and buy the right rods to run stock pistons. [emoji3]

Stock R and S3 pistons are already a pretty good CR for higher HP builds and there’s plenty of R’s with stock blocks making more power than you will.

Just trying to simplify this for you.


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Well the stock S3 pistons are sold already so I would still need to buy pistons.
The 21mm forged rods are also significantly heavier and about 200 USD more expensive (I probably will have to spend 200 USD on shipping and customs, maybe more mind you).

I did measure the gasket right now and its 83.00 mm (agreed it doesn't matter much).
I also chatted with my engine builder and he didn't seem concerned about first measuring and then taking the CR form a possible 9.7 to 9.8 or more.

Right now I am waiting for a response (to end all discussion on CR) from Mahle Motorsports on the 9.7 vs 9.3 discrepancy. I'll also, like you say, check higher CR JE's (low 10 would be okay also) and run the numbers again.
But ideally I make purchase today or tomorrow before sales end.

[EvolutionArmory]

Right on.

Keep in mind that if you go too low you’ll take all the fun out of the low end unless you’re running a 100 octane tune with more timing.

My calculated CR is 9.6 now and on my 93 octane tune, the low end is weak. Keep CR in the 9.8-10 range.

Going lower will allow you to run more boost and timing without knock but if you’re not tuned for it, it will be less fun than driving a car with a higher CR. My 100 octane tune has 5-6 degrees more advance so it helps with the lower CR feeling slower.

[EvolutionArmory]

You said your block and head were decked like .008 right? That’s gonna bring your CR up .2 so if you ran a 9.5 piston with a stock head gasket, you’ll likely be in the 9.7 range you want.

Before you buy a piston make absolute sure you enter in all of the data you’re gonna use. Don’t trust their advertised CR. Enter their piston specs and use your head gasket and deck numbers. If you have .008 combined decking from the block and head, you can just add them to your piston height above the deck and the numbers should be right.


This is the important info. Not what they tell you the CR is suppose to be.
208463



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[AudiB720TS]

You said your block and head were decked like .008 right? That’s gonna bring your CR up .2 so if you ran a 9.5 piston with a stock head gasket, you’ll likely be in the 9.7 range you want.

Before you buy a piston make absolute sure you enter in all of the data you’re gonna use. Don’t trust their advertised CR. Enter their piston specs and use your head gasket and deck numbers. If you have .008 combined decking from the block and head, you can just add them to your piston height above the deck and the numbers should be right.


This is the important info. Not what they tell you the CR is suppose to be.
208463



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Yes, currently (the head) is decked 0.08mm.
The calculator says: "Enter Piston Deck Clearance Negative If ABOVE Deck (Use '-') :" does it mean I should add "0.08" or "-0.08"? Not clear on the language.

[Dpartinvr4]

I'm running 11:1 compression and just as much timing on a k04 tune as everybody else. I wouldn't lose to much sleep over being between 9.2-9.8.

[AudiB720TS]

I also found these JE's that are lower than stock CR but not low as the S3/Golf R. This is also the newer design FSR with coating and should clear oil squirters.

https://i.imgur.com/iF97X5H.png

Running the numbers:

https://i.imgur.com/5erLVro.png

[EvolutionArmory]

10 will probably be fine.

You also have to consider that VAG is notorious for overstating their CR number.

The 10.5:1 CR rating for BPG and 10.3:1 BTW motors are probably really closer to 10:1.

The other higher performance motor CR’s are probably bullshit too 🤣

1.8T motors were usually all the same but VAG states some have a higher CR than others. You can’t even trust the OEM 🤣🤣


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[AudiB720TS]

10 will probably be fine.

You also have to consider that VAG is notorious for overstating their CR number.

The 10.5:1 CR rating for BPG and 10.3:1 BTW motors are probably really closer to 10:1.

The other higher performance motor CR’s are probably bullshit too 🤣

1.8T motors were usually all the same but VAG states some have a higher CR than others. You can’t even trust the OEM 🤣🤣


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Yeah, that would totally mess up my point of reference here.
I think I'll measure the cylinder head combustion area just to make sure its 45 cc/ml. Just gotta find a spark plug in the basement.
The other stuff I cant double-check anymore.

The takeaway so far is pistons are a bitch to buy. JE is doing the right thing removing the CR number from their website (earlier this year it was there).

[EvolutionArmory]

I'm running 11:1 compression and just as much timing on a k04 tune as everybody else. I wouldn't lose to much sleep over being between 9.2-9.8.

I think you might find that running an 11:1 CR was a mistake now that you’re building a G25-550 turbo.

I hope I’m wrong and you’ll be able to run the right boost and timing to make it fun.


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[Dpartinvr4]

I think you might find that running an 11:1 CR was a mistake now that you’re building a G25-550 turbo.

I hope I’m wrong and you’ll be able to run the right boost and timing to make it fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)You said the same thing when I did it with the k04, like I said before with direct injection it's a completely different animal. I'd rather not blow his thread up with the same argument we had in mine. I'm just letting him know he's not gonna have a problem no matter where the compression ratio falls, and that's from real-world experience with the same car, not regurgitating what the internets been saying since the 90s about port injection.

[AudiB720TS]

Rod bearings, main cap bearings and thrust bearings: what should I look at?

Right now I have KS main and thrust bearings already, but open to switch for something else.
About rod bearings I am not sure what to go with...

[EvolutionArmory]

I went with Mahle Motorsport rod and main bearings and OEM thrust


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[Dpartinvr4]

Calico coated and rifle drilled to match the rods

[AudiB720TS]

I went with Mahle Motorsport rod and main bearings and OEM thrust


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Calico coated and rifle drilled to match the rods

Thanks guys,
I did find KS makes 'sputter' bearings as well: https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/343-ks-conrod-big-end-bearings-oem.html
I can find these at around 80 USD locally and it would allow me to use KS throughout. Mahle looks to be twice the price and Calico I haven't seen (here).
King and ACL bearings are available but out of stock where I looked.

[AudiB720TS]

I went with ACL Race bearings for main caps (https://tsr-performance.com/5m1644h-std-acl-main-bearings/) and rod big ends (https://tsr-performance.com/acl-race-series-big-end-bearings-std-size-tagged-style/). Will use KS on the thrust washers. Got the ACL's via eBay by way of Poland. Seemed legit.

Oh, and this arrived just now! Comes with a magnetic adhesive pad to install on the dash [cool]

Dragy GPS:
https://i.imgur.com/F2cmHcG.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

3rd main cap back from machine shop. Modified according to drawing spec:d by Kevin C on this forum.

3rd main cap modified for extra thrust bearing:
https://i.imgur.com/T6K1frB.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Mahle USA came back today and actually corrected what CTS Turbo said:

Their PowerPak is custom made for IE. However, they wouldn’t tell me to what CR spec.

If there’s interest I’ll post up the actual email.

So AFAIK the piston could still be 9.3:1 or it could be 9.7:1 and ECS might be getting their piston through IE anyways. CTS most likely is getting the OTS piston.

It doesn’t matter (to me) anymore. I’ve ordered both rods and pistons now. I’m taking a bit of risk, doing my own combo not tried before AFAIK. Delivery time Jan - Feb so hopefully getting block build by March ‘21.

[EvolutionArmory]

You can order custom pistons through most makers.

IE specs 82.5MM 9.7:1 pistons from Mahle

APR specs 83mm 9.8:1 pistons from Mahle too.

Trust the specs IE and APR lists the specs at. Well, trust that the specs are a ball park and verify what it will be in your engine I mean.


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[Charles.waite]

Yea in this order I’d trust the manufacturers, then a tuner/performance parts manufacturer like IE or APR. I rarely trust a reseller like ECS, and it’s not bias against them, it’s simply they just sell parts, they don’t have the technical background to bet the data.

[AudiB720TS]

Some progress on the modified cap (still some to go).

https://i.imgur.com/WjJNRvT.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Short video on that main cap modification. Also took Kevin's notes and put in a document with attachments.
Will put that on Google Drive eventually (want to see this work first).


https://youtu.be/bSOn72P8rCM

[AudiB720TS]

Cam roller follower has arrived.

This part is what drives the cost of my DIY conversion: the cheapest I could find was about 80 USD shipped.

I am guessing this conversion was cloned on a product later revised for a different follower, at least that would make sense.
In case you are wondering this is the B7 RS4 follower, but I suspect most roller conversions is using a cheaper TSI follower.
This follower is longer (AFAIK) so not interchangeable.


Cam roller follower:
https://i.imgur.com/IjI5cdl.jpg

[Dpartinvr4]

What are your thoughts on using a roller followe on a cam designed for a flat tappet?

[AudiB720TS]

What are your thoughts on using a roller followe on a cam designed for a flat tappet?

I mean it’s ‘been done’ (counting 5+ vendors, many cars using them) so I don’t really have to think about it in the general sense with regards to the engineering aspects.

I’m assuming a bit more risk here because I’m using a DIY from a CAD that’s been replicated maybe a handful of times.

What I might do is run it on my current engine (I’ve ordered two sets of gaskets for this purpose) before putting it on the $$$ engine.

[i3oricua]

What are your thoughts on using a roller followe on a cam designed for a flat tappet?I have one and am running it. Only drawback I've found is that it's noisy so it always has me looking at the engine to make sure that's where the noise is coming from.

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

[aluthman]

I’m running the TSI roller follower conversion kit from iAbed and it’s been fine for over a year now.

[AudiB720TS]

Roller conversion is now done. I've got to clean up some edges a bit, but it should be fine.
Total cost was about half of wat iABED charges and also significantly cheaper than most other vendors.
Not sure its worth all the hassle still [headbang]

Will put this in a bag until the engine is ready to go in. Got new gaskets and those plastic VVT rings, and will transfer my vacuum pump since it has much less mileage.

Roller conversion:
https://i.imgur.com/8z6zudj.jpg

Roller conversion:
https://i.imgur.com/hrnqHR9.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Some additional pictures of the roller conversion as I wanted to get an idea of clearance and the operation.
You cannot see it in the pictures, but the roller tappet mates with about half the width of the fuel lobe of the cam.

Adapter and vacuum pump fitted:
https://i.imgur.com/SpNbjjR.jpg

With intake cam fitted against vacuum pump:
https://i.imgur.com/cYODDRP.jpg