A slow ass 400 CHP project thread

[i3oricua]

If you don’t mind: call them. You would do me a favor if you rephrase my question from yesterday: “do they drill all HPFP’s or just some revisions?” I woke up in the middle of the night realizing I should have asked specifically based on the A4 (since they do a lot of other VAG)...

Yea. I’m gonna call them in the next few days once I have an estimate of when I think I’ll have my engine back in the car and running so I’ll ask about it then. I’ll let you know.


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[canadianA4B7]

That's what I would expect too: thinner line would give higher pressure...
Anyways, at this point it is already a done deal, although I might take that brass fitting off to measure it later to a.) make sure I get what I pay for b.) understand what kind of diameter it has now.
I have stock fittings saved from my old pump for comparison.

Ask tuner if they’ve measured the ID of the 90 degree bend on the OEM hard lines. I’ve used a bored out inlet fitting makes no driveability changes did not stop the fuel cuts at x boost and Y rpm I had and LPFP and pump did not correct. Best solution for more fuel was swapping out that fuel hard line and making it out of 3/8” ID tube with 1/4” ID prv tube and use a 3/8” ID fuel hose rated for 330 psi.

[EvolutionArmory]

I was doing a little more research on the drill mod and apparently pumps with the banjo bolt already can flow more fuel than the units with the barb fitting. So a drilled out to 5mm barb inlet only flows about 5% more than a stock banjo fitting. There are at least 2 companies that just drill out the barb fitting to 5mm as standard. Loba and hpfpupgrade.com. If you buy a pump from either, the mod is already done if you have a barb fitting.

And the reason why the inlet is so small is due to fuel recirculation back to the low side if the PRV is tripped. Something to do with trying to eliminate pressure spikes or something. I’m sorry I can’t explain it better

[AudiB720TS]

I was doing a little more research on the drill mod and apparently pumps with the banjo bolt already can flow more fuel than the units with the barb fitting. So a drilled out to 5mm barb inlet only flows about 5% more than a stock banjo fitting. There are at least 2 companies that just drill out the barb fitting to 5mm as standard. Loba and hpfpupgrade.com. If you buy a pump from either, the mod is already done if you have a barb fitting.

And the reason why the inlet is so small is due to fuel recirculation back to the low side if the PRV is tripped. Something to do with trying to eliminate pressure spikes or something. I’m sorry I can’t explain it better

I also found a post where somebody said LOBA did this. However it’s not on the product spec for their pump. The other company I think is out of business. I’ll contact LOBA for a comment...

[AudiB720TS]

Tuner just texted me the car is done.
Will pick it up tomorrow morning. Now just a fight over cost remains ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

Tuner just texted me the car is done.
Will pick it up tomorrow morning. Now just a fight over cost remains ;)

What estimate did they give you for power/torque?

[EvolutionArmory]

I also found a post where somebody said LOBA did this. However it’s not on the product spec for their pump. The other company I think is out of business. I’ll contact LOBA for a comment...

Ask them if the banjo style fitting is already bigger and if it could benefit from being drilled. If a 5mm barb fitting can out flow a banjo fitting by 5%, that’s still 5% 😀

HPFPupgrade.com’s site is still live.

[AudiB720TS]

Ok, have now discussed the cost of work/services and reached an agreement. Likely the most expensive Audi A4 tune you are gonna hear about. Ever. But hopefully it’s the crown on this build.

They’ve agreed to give me the dyno numbers which otherwise is 200$ extra on top. So at least that’s something.

Make sure to check in tomorrow and I will share the numbers (don’t have them yet) and some initial impressions.

- - - Updated - - -


What estimate did they give you for power/torque?

Tomorrow my friend ;)

[canadianA4B7]

How much??

Malone tunes $1200 usd including programmer. This allows any mods to car they’ll re tune.

[EvolutionArmory]

Fingers crossed you break 300 WHP!!!!

[AudiB720TS]

How much??

Malone tunes $1200 usd including programmer. This allows any mods to car they’ll re tune.

Way more.

[AudiB720TS]

Fingers crossed you break 300 WHP!!!!

They’ll give me engine power figures only so we’ll have to guess (for now) based on assumed drivetrain losses.

[i3oricua]

Way more.

In all honesty you should have just drove here to the UK. I know that’s hindsight and sounds a little crazy but it probably still would have been cheaper than whatever you paid.


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[EvolutionArmory]

They’ll give me engine power figures only so we’ll have to guess (for now) based on assumed drivetrain losses.

Did the car make 380-400 CHP? Thats what you'll need to get 300 wheel

[EvolutionArmory]

And him having the crank numbers and not being able to give you the wheel numbers makes no sense. He tuned it on the dyno, which is taking drivetrain loss into account already.

[i3oricua]

And him having the crank numbers and not being able to give you the wheel numbers makes no sense. He tuned it on the dyno, which is taking drivetrain loss into account already.

It’s a European thing, at least it has bee in my experience. You have to ask a lot for whp. There’s a reason behind it that my tuner said that they prefer measuring crank but I can’t remember what he said. Something like it’s a more precise indicator of something. I don’t know.


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[EvolutionArmory]

It’s a European thing, at least it has bee in my experience. You have to ask a lot for whp. There’s a reason behind it that my tuner said that they prefer measuring crank but I can’t remember what he said. Something like it’s a more precise indicator of something. I don’t know.


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How do you measure engine HP with the motor in the car? He's tuning it on the dyno which is measuring wheel with drivetrain loss. Even a hub dyno is measuring drivetrain loss, just not the wheel mass.

[i3oricua]

How do you measure engine HP with the motor in the car? He's tuning it on the dyno which is measuring wheel with drivetrain loss. Even a hub dyno is measuring drivetrain loss, just not the wheel mass.

If you have a dyno or vast experience with one then you can answer that question. I don’t so I’m not gonna pretend that I know the answer. And I’m watching mighty car mods so I can’t be bothered to look it up.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I just don’t understand how they could be charging him over 1200 for a tune and not know the WHP when the car was on rollers or a hub dyno. Both those methods still have the whole drivetrain there. Definitely not trying to be argumentative with you. Just trying to understand. Might Car Mod guys would know the answer. All I know is the only way to measure CHP is at the flywheel which can’t be measured while the motor is in the car.

All wheel and hub dynos are just estimates anyway.

[AudiB720TS]

I just don’t understand how they could be charging him over 1200 for a tune and not know the WHP when the car was on rollers or a hub dyno. Both those methods still have the whole drivetrain there. Definitely not trying to be argumentative with you. Just trying to understand. Might Car Mod guys would know the answer. All I know is the only way to measure CHP is at the flywheel which can’t be measured while the motor is in the car.

All wheel and hub dynos are just estimates anyway.

They use a Mustang AWD dyno, but they have it set to only display/print CHP. I asked him last week, but that’s how they want it. I also asked one of their customers a few weeks back if he had WHP figures, but ‘no’. Seems to be a matter of principle (how they do it). A lot of UK tuners are like that too: only shows BHP numbers.

But I agree: all dynos measure at the wheels and then they add a factor to estimate engine power.

That’s why I used a Rototest hub dyno for my baseline. That’s also why I’m gonna go back to Rototest again for the final test, but it’s a 5.5 hour drive and they’re booked until June-July.

So tomorrow’s number will give us an idea and will tell me if I’m gonna need to install the turbo blanket and pull a few more tricks or just sit back and relax ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

I don’t know man, that makes zero sense. Giving customers an over inflated CHP estimate based off of wheel hp numbers is sketchy. Not even close to accurate at all let alone more accurate.

That explains the false thinking that the Europeans can make more power with these cars. They’re just over inflated dynos or don’t use something like SAE dyno standards like we do.

[AudiB720TS]

I don’t know man, that makes zero sense. Giving customers an over inflated CHP estimate based off of wheel hp numbers is sketchy. Not even close to accurate at all let alone more accurate.

That explains the false thinking that the Europeans can make more power with these cars. They’re just over inflated dynos or don’t use something like SAE dyno standards like we do.


Yes, I agree.

[canadianA4B7]

Do you have specs for the turbo? Compressor and turbine sizes?? Curious how this will compare to the 2863. I’m thinking it’s possibly close but I can’t see that hotside being large enough...

http://i.imgur.com/zMEiu10.jpg (http://imgur.com/zMEiu10)

[AudiB720TS]

Do you have specs for the turbo? Compressor and turbine sizes?? Curious how this will compare to the 2863. I’m thinking it’s possibly close but I can’t see that hotside being large enough...

http://i.imgur.com/zMEiu10.jpg (http://imgur.com/zMEiu10)

I don’t have more than what’s on their site or reseller websites (LO400L). I did make this walkthrough video a while back however:

https://youtu.be/UJ7SmuL0uZk

I imagine it’s similar to other hybrids, but probably they don’t give part numbers or sizes for fear of people building their own in the garage.

[AudiB720TS]

So the owner changed his mind and surprised me with giving me the wheel horse power results instead of their usual engine power numbers.
The following is based on Metric Horsepower measured on a Mustang dyno that was calibrated on a factory new Golf R MQB (so a fairly similar platform).
I don't have a dyno graph so please don't ask for it. I'll dyno the car on a wheel hub dyno (Rototest) later in the summer and will share graph then. These are peak numbers.

312 WHP
410 Nm


I haven't slept much for the last two days (the bills!) so drove the car back on cruise control so can't really comment on how the car feels.
However I did notice some new vibration on idle when turning the steering wheel so a new potential problem to look into when I'm rested.

Will post some useful info/takeaways later today or tomorrow with regards to fueling etc.

[i3oricua]

So the owner changed his mind and surprised me with giving me the wheel horse power results instead of their usual engine power numbers.
The following is based on Metric Horsepower measured on a Mustang dyno that was calibrated on a factory new Golf R MQB (so a fairly similar platform).
I don't have a dyno graph so please don't ask for it. I'll dyno the car on a wheel hub dyno (Rototest) later in the summer and will share graph then. These are peak numbers.

312 WHP
410 Nm


I haven't slept much for the last two days (the bills!) so drove the car back on cruise control so can't really comment on how the car feels.
However I did notice some new vibration on idle when turning the steering wheel so a new potential problem to look into when I'm rested.

Will post some useful info/takeaways later today or tomorrow with regards to fueling etc.

Congrats on the numbers. Mash that throttle and put a smile back on your face. You’ll feel better after that.


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[canadianA4B7]

I think you’ll need to get onto another dyno..... your numbers cannot be as close to my math over the last day.

400-22% (known loss on mustang dyno for Quattro)= 312......

[EvolutionArmory]

They do call it the LO400 for a reason. They used to call it the LO380 but it usually made more power so they renamed it. True story🤣

I don’t trust European dynos anymore but I guess they are as accurate or inaccurate as anything else. Doing some timing, MAF and boost data logging would help verify those numbers. I mean, if your MAF logs are close to 300gs +/-, I’d say your power figures were accurate.

My WHP almost matched my peak MAF. I was only 1 HP off.

[AudiB720TS]

I think you’ll need to get onto another dyno...

Yes, I will. But will be a while.

[EvolutionArmory]

And I’ve seen some Golf R LO400 threads where guys were putting down 330-350 WHP so his numbers aren’t so out of line if they are accurate.

[AudiB720TS]

The tune turned out to be a two day thing and even after discussing the price, very expensive. Part of this was the extra work in terms of drilling the HPFP (see below) and swapping a fuel sensor.
The biggest issue was the presence of the JHM tune however; Half a day was spent trying to work around it as they could not just put their base map on top due to changed "seed-key" by JHM. The tuner had to build a new file (whatever that means) and do "BDM programming" before proceeding. I don't know if this is a unique challenge with JHM (I don't hold it against them) or just something many tuners do.
Had I known this would be an issue I could have worked with JHM to flash back to stock. Overall the tuner seems very knowledgeable about the platform so no doubts around that. I just feel some issues could have been avoided given we've been communicating over several months (I was asked to get a 155 bar PRV, but was not told to get a 200 sensor to go along with it for example).

Car seems fine on highway, but I am getting some loud vibration at idle -noticeable when reversing slowly or turning the steering wheel at maximum when standing still. It's some kind of slow loud vibration and the engine noise changes momentarily as well. I thought I had a bump in RPM when it happens but I rechecked and I don't see it. Idle seems to be at 780 or 790 RPMs (what's stock?). I don't want to say with certainty its an issue with the tune, but I have not noticed this issue before today. Then again: the turbo was installed just a day before the tune so the issue could have been introduced then and there as well. I will probably put the car on the lift this weekend and see if anything is loose: exhaust, brackets, something else?

If you guys have any idea of what to look for, please let me know!


Some takeaways that I think you can all benefit from:


The HPFP inlet fitting should be drilled to 5mm ID to "relieve" the LPFP. I was shown a spare pump and that fitting has less than 1mm if left untouched. According to my tuner it won't matter how big a pump you throw in the tank if you don't open this inlet fitting up. Makes sense when you see how tiny it is. These pictures (not mine) shows standard (http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/superflyguy99/12212010176.jpg) and drilled (http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/superflyguy99/12212010169.jpg) for reference.
RS4 PRV is not enough. My tuner wanted the 155, but not more for this kind of turbo.
Above RS4 PRV the stock fuel pressure sensor needs to be upgraded. It only measure up to 140 bar which is not enough for the 155 PRV. The upgrade is to use the 200 bar sensor from the S3 and R8. Audi part number is "06J906051D (https://www.akstuning.co.uk/performance-engine-components/375-fuel-pressure-sensor-for-20-tsi-and-fsi.html)"
Don't use the Bosch F5DPOR plugs. I think I got mine based on reading on the JHM site. My tuner said these were a bad choice and not good for these heads. According to him they were designed or used on the RS2(?) back in the nineties, but the design is old and even bad for the 2.0t. Should use NGK or Denso racing line over Bosch. So I will be swapping mine ASAP.

[EvolutionArmory]

You should run fuel logs. 003, 230 and 231. I’m assuming you’re still on the stock low fuel pump. If your low pressure fuel doesn’t drop off at redline too bad we will know how much drilling the HPFP inlet lets the low pump work better. We will also know where your tuner set requested HPFP targets and what actual is and if that 155 PRV and S3 rail sensor was necessary.

Going from my own low pressure logs, if what your tuner says is true, enlarging the inlet for the HPFP might make this fuel dip at 5K come up a little. This is still considered healthy but it could make me stay at 4.5 bar, which my tune requests the whole time. I need to measure a banjo style inlet to see if it is in fact larger than the bamboo style fitting already.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g309/zeddirte/22BAF635-748F-4E53-A476-32A8D1749735.jpg (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/zeddirte/media/22BAF635-748F-4E53-A476-32A8D1749735.jpg.html)

[EvolutionArmory]

One thing for sure, I’m glad you hit your goal and this just adds another cool turbo option. A fast spooling 300+ WHP option that hooks up like OEM 🤘🏻

[al3k]

wow that is pretty good numbers!, was it on 98ron fuel?
The HPFP inlet fitting is very interesting also, last time I was disassembling the whole fuel system I did notice how small that hole was and started to wonder how the hell fuel could flow efficently through that, it do make sense to increase this hole but it did also work fine without doing it for me in the end, but the pump may be working alot harder than it should.

[AudiB720TS]

wow that is pretty good numbers!, was it on 98ron fuel?
The HPFP inlet fitting is very interesting also, last time I was disassembling the whole fuel system I did notice how small that hole was and started to wonder how the hell fuel could flow efficently through that, it do make sense to increase this hole but it did also work fine without doing it for me in the end, but the pump may be working alot harder than it should.

It’s on 98, but I think that (EU rating) is equivalent to US 93.

I’ll try log fuel data next week to see how the results are on the LPFP and rail.

[AudiB720TS]

What do you guys think this sound is? It may be hard to hear on startup in this video, but you hear it as I reverse out of the garage.
Was not there prior to turbo install and tune.

You hear it clearly at 0:53 seconds into the clip.


https://youtu.be/w8lFLh_5WeQ

[i3oricua]

What do you guys think this sound is? It may be hard to hear on startup in this video, but you hear it as I reverse out of the garage.
Was not there prior to turbo install and tune.

You hear it clearly at 0:53 seconds into the clip.


https://youtu.be/w8lFLh_5WeQ

Get under the car and loosen your motor mounts. They should be 13 mm. One on each motor mount from underneath. Take the car for a drive. Some normal driving and hard acceleration then come home and tighten them back up and see if that works. Loosen them about half way off but don’t take the nuts completely off.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Could be mount like he said. Could be the down pipe hitting something like the transmission cross member. It could be a lot of things really.

Start looking at things that are disturbed during a turbo install. Mostly the snub mount when the car was put in service position or the exhaust when the new turbo was put in. Sometimes you might need to tighten bolts or clamps up in a certain sequence to make the exhaust not hit the crossmember.

[AudiB720TS]

Yeah, I jacked the car an hour ago just to look around.
Removed the smaller splash guard (larger one already removed) which had some loose fasteners on it and was slapping around.
Reversed out and had no sound so I thought it was fixed. Went to buy some beer to celibate.

Then as I parked outside the grocery store I heard the rattle again :( No beers tonight then.

I traced the exhaust with my eyes back to front and saw no issues.

Will try the engine mounts later in the week. Should I loosen the snub mount before doing that trick?



Thanks.

[i3oricua]

Yea. You should loosen the snub too. It should allow all of the mounts to settle in to place.


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[AudiB720TS]

I also found a post where somebody said LOBA did this. However it’s not on the product spec for their pump. The other company I think is out of business. I’ll contact LOBA for a comment...

Loba has responded that they do drill the inlet fitting to 5mm on the HPFP they sell.

[Charles.waite]

Huh. Wonder if there’s any reason NOT to preemptively drill the fitting out on basically any car...

Not going to be able to find a 5mm but here in the US but 3/16ths is VERY close.

[i3oricua]

Loba has responded that they do drill the inlet fitting to 5mm on the HPFP they sell.

I’m still trying to figure hot which fitting this is. I’ve looked at my pump and I don’t see anything that could be drilled.


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[AudiB720TS]

I’m still trying to figure hot which fitting this is. I’ve looked at my pump and I don’t see anything that could be drilled.


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I shared a picture on page 13 of this thread: it’s in the green text (external link).

[EvolutionArmory]

I’m still trying to figure hot which fitting this is. I’ve looked at my pump and I don’t see anything that could be drilled.


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You probably have a banjo bolt being that your car is a 2006. You don’t have the bamboo style fitting that newer cars do if that is true.

[AudiB720TS]

Sorry, on this page (14) further up a few posts.

[i3oricua]

I shared a picture on page 13 of this thread: it’s in the green text (external link).

Yea. I saw your links. I don’t have that style fitting which is leaving me confused.


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[AudiB720TS]

Yea. I saw your links. I don’t have that style fitting which is leaving me confused.


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https://www.shopdap.com/fsi-bamboo-barb-fuel-fitting-conversion-hpfp.html

[EvolutionArmory]

After reading this page again I’m still blown away about how sketchy the whole dyno situation was. I can’t believe they didn’t give you a graph print out. How the powerband looks is way more important than the peak numbers in my opinion. It tells you way more about how your car runs than the peak numbers do.

And that was suppose to be the best tuner in the country?

[AudiB720TS]

After reading this page again I’m still blown away about how sketchy the whole dyno situation was. I can’t believe they didn’t give you a graph print out. How the powerband looks is way more important than the peak numbers in my opinion. It tells you way more about how your car runs than the peak numbers do.

And that was suppose to be the best tuner in the country?

Yes, but again: they charge 200 USD extra for an official dyno. We agreed they would “give” me the numbers, not an official printout. No fee. I’m OK with this really. And my plan is still to return to a Rototest dyno for my conclusion on the power aspect of this project.

If there’s a big diff it’s their name on the line: I have an invoice where they’ve written “312 WHP, 410 WNM” - the owners handwriting mind you.

I’ve temporarily have moved on to stereo installation and troubleshooting that rattle. Gut feel is something is up with the single mass flywheel.

[i3oricua]

Yes, but again: they charge 200 USD extra for an official dyno. We agreed they would “give” me the numbers, not an official printout. No fee. I’m OK with this really. And my plan is still to return to a Rototest dyno for my conclusion on the power aspect of this project.

If there’s a big diff it’s their name on the line: I have an invoice where they’ve written “312 WHP, 410 WNM” - the owners handwriting mind you.

I’ve temporarily have moved on to stereo installation and troubleshooting that rattle. Gut feel is something is up with the single mass flywheel.

I think the flywheel would be more consistent a noise but I’ve never had that problem before. You’ll typically get the most vibration from your engine in reverse because it’s the shortest (strongest?) gear and it’s usually pretty violent feeling. If it was more metallic sounding then I would guess flywheel/clutch problems but I’m not totally convinced of that yet. Hopefully it’s not because that would be a pain.


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[AudiB720TS]

Okay, today I'm gonna go out and log fuel and intake air and share that data with you guys.
To do the graphing of the data points, can I do that within VCDS or I need to use MS Excel?

Thanks

[AudiB720TS]

I mean, if your MAF logs are close to 300gs +/-, I’d say your power figures were accurate.


Which block is that to log: "003-2"?

[i3oricua]

Okay, today I'm gonna go out and log fuel and intake air and share that data with you guys.
To do the graphing of the data points, can I do that within VCDS or I need to use MS Excel?

Thanks

Export them to excel and I believe you can go to the Malone tuning website and drop the excel doc on the page and it will spit out a graph.


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[i3oricua]

Which block is that to log: "003-2"?

Yes. Or 002-4 if you can’t get that group to work.


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[AudiB720TS]

Getting "interface not found" errors on VCDS.
My cable is a "replica" so maybe that's part of it.
Tried the COM ports too, but no luck today.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hqcxs7.png

[i3oricua]

Getting "interface not found" errors on VCDS.
My cable is a "replica" so maybe that's part of it.
Tried the COM ports too, but no luck today.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hqcxs7.png

Yea. You probably need a genuine for those other blocks. The replica has limited capability.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Or you don’t have the correct hardware drivers for the cable to work.

I’ve always used a legit cable so I can’t recommend any fixes for you. Sorry.

And yes, 003.2 is MAF. Open your log with excel, highlight 003.2 from 1500-redline, hit insert and pick a graph style. That will usually default to a Y axis graph. Then go in and insert RPM 003.1 as your X axis data from 1500-redline.

It will look like this. If you run into problems you could use that website he mentioned but you can make graphs right on your own computer.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g309/zeddirte/1653B353-CFA1-4EAD-81BA-3E40529B5712.png (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/zeddirte/media/1653B353-CFA1-4EAD-81BA-3E40529B5712.png.html)

[AudiB720TS]

I can see from my old logs on JHM stage 2 that my max value was 199 g/s, so a diff of nearly 30 compared to WHP (dynoed 228 whp).
Got the graphing going, but no new logs to play with.

I will have to sort out software/fw for this cable or try get an authentic cable...

[al3k]

Yea. You probably need a genuine for those other blocks. The replica has limited capability.


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right click"My computer" and click "manage", then go to device manager and find your cable, you can also see your real com number and you might need to go to properties to change it so its withing the software com number you can choose.
replica cables often use serial interface instead of the "usb" so you most likley need to chose the correct COM.
,

[EvolutionArmory]

I can see from my old logs on JHM stage 2 that my max value was 199 g/s, so a diff of nearly 30 compared to WHP (dynoed 228 whp).
Got the graphing going, but no new logs to play with.

I will have to sort out software/fw for this cable or try get an authentic cable...

Usually MAF logs and WHP are pretty close if your tuner is using factory MAF scaling. If you dynoed on a hub dyno to get that 228 number the weight of not having your wheels on could mean the difference of 30 WHP.

Look at all the stage 2 dyno runs in the dyno thread. All the stage 2 cars barely crack 200 WHP so your MAF logs are probably more accurate than your hub dyno run. 😀

[AudiB720TS]

right click"My computer" and click "manage", then go to device manager and find your cable, you can also see your real com number and you might need to go to properties to change it so its withing the software com number you can choose.
replica cables often use serial interface instead of the "usb" so you most likley need to chose the correct COM.
,

Yeah, tried that. Not seeing any COM port assignment. I know I’ve seen it before though.
Thinking I might have unintentionally updated the cable FW and screwed this up. It shows as a Ross-Tech cable connected over USB.

[Charles.waite]

Or you don’t have the correct hardware drivers for the cable to work.

I’ve always used a legit cable so I can’t recommend any fixes for you. Sorry.

Pretty hard to have the wrong drivers since the installer installs them each time you run it. But if it’s a knockoff cable then maybe you do need a specific version. But same as you I’ve only ever used a real one so I can’t help sort out a knockoff.

[i3oricua]

Pretty hard to have the wrong drivers since the installer installs them each time you run it. But if it’s a knockoff cable then maybe you do need a specific version. But same as you I’ve only ever used a real one so I can’t help sort out a knockoff.

I’ve owned a knock off and you’re pretty limited with it. It’s not surprising he can’t access certain blocks. That’s why I ponied up and bought a genuine one. I needed the access.


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[AudiB720TS]

So tonight I adjusted both engine mounts and snub mount. Unfortunately it did not improve things.

Also crawled around underneath the car to look for anything rubbing or out of the ordinary. Nothing.

The issue seems to be getting worse too.
Leaning towards a problem with the SMFW. Any thoughts on how one would inspect that?

[i3oricua]

So tonight I adjusted both engine mounts and snub mount. Unfortunately it did not improve things.

Also crawled around underneath the car to look for anything rubbing or out of the ordinary. Nothing.

The issue seems to be getting worse too.
Leaning towards a problem with the SMFW. Any thoughts on how one would inspect that?

What do you think is wrong with your flywheel?


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[AudiB720TS]

What do you think is wrong with your flywheel?


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I think its coming loose.
Like maybe the mechanic didn’t torque it to spec during install. Does it make sense?

[i3oricua]

I think its coming loose.
Like maybe the mechanic didn’t torque it to spec during install. Does it make sense?

You would hear the flywheel bolts. Look at a video on that and see if you hear that sound. It’s pretty obvious. I’m not saying that’s not your problem but there’s really no other way to know besides taking the transmission off. There are two “holes” you can look through. There’s a small one on transmission housing on the drivers side that looks directly at the flywheel. The other one is under or in the starter area but it’s covered by a thin metal plate that I don’t know if you can bend from the outside.

Maybe it’s unbalanced or not balanced right from the factory? I still lean towards the motor mounts. They can be pretty pesky and not settle in correctly sometimes.


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[AudiB720TS]

You would hear the flywheel bolts. Look at a video on that and see if you hear that sound. It’s pretty obvious. I’m not saying that’s not your problem but there’s really no other way to know besides taking the transmission off. There are two “holes” you can look through. There’s a small one on transmission housing on the drivers side that looks directly at the flywheel. The other one is under or in the starter area but it’s covered by a thin metal plate that I don’t know if you can bend from the outside.

Maybe it’s unbalanced or not balanced right from the factory? I still lean towards the motor mounts. They can be pretty pesky and not settle in correctly sometimes.


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Just talked to my mechanic and he insists it was installed to specified torque.

I loosened the engine mounts yesterday from underneath and drove around a fair bit. I then torqued them to 25 nm with the car level on the ground (yeah was hard to access like that). You think the top nut on these things could be an issue?

[i3oricua]

Just talked to my mechanic and he insists it was installed to specified torque.

I loosened the engine mounts yesterday from underneath and drove around a fair bit. I then torqued them to 25 nm with the car level on the ground (yeah was hard to access like that). You think the top nut on these things could be an issue?

Possibly. The one under the turbo is really hard to get to. The only other place to point to would be suspension problems but I don’t think that’s likely. You can check the transmission mount too but you would feel that in the shifter more. It took me 4-5 attempts on the motor mounts to get them to settle in right but before that I couldn’t figure out what the problem was and I kept poking and going crazy. I think I loosened the drivers side one on top too and the settled in like that. Don’t loosen them too much, there’s some notches on the bottom that they have to set in and you could shake them out of one of those possibly creating more vibrations.


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[AudiB720TS]

I looked again and here’s something:

The snub mount is not centered in the bracket. It’s more on right side than on the left. The bracket cannot be moved sideways...

The motor mount bracket to subframe holes ARE aligned on both sides as far as I can tell (or do I need a special size rod to be certain?). So from that point the engine should be centered, right?

Are there other alignment holes or points to look at, for example on the transmission.

I’m thinking one test is to remove the snub mount entirely to see how it runs.

[EvolutionArmory]

Take the snub mount right out of there. Since you can duplicate the sound right in your driveway there’s zero chance that it can hurt anything.

Are you absolutely sure nothing on the exhaust is hitting anything? Check where the transmission crossmember and exhaust meet and check where the rear exhaust and subframe meet. Check to make sure your rear O2 sensor isn’t rubbing on the firewall. If you don’t have a 90 degree bend on there it is very possible.

If you eliminate the exhaust and mounts, start looking at things like upper control arms and sway bar end links. You’d be surprised what sounds those can make.

You seem very confident that it’s the flywheel so maybe you’re right but the ECS flywheel comes very well reviewed.

[AudiB720TS]

Take the snub mount right out of there. Since you can duplicate the sound right in your driveway there’s zero chance that it can hurt anything.

Are you absolutely sure nothing on the exhaust is hitting anything? Check where the transmission crossmember and exhaust meet and check where the rear exhaust and subframe meet. Check to make sure your rear O2 sensor isn’t rubbing on the firewall. If you don’t have a 90 degree bend on there it is very possible.

If you eliminate the exhaust and mounts, start looking at things like upper control arms and sway bar end links. You’d be surprised what sounds those can make.

You seem very confident that it’s the flywheel so maybe you’re right but the ECS flywheel comes very well reviewed.

Thanks!

I will put the car on a proper lift tonight and look everything over again, including alignment holes and the things you mention. This crap kept me from sleeping last night so want to get it out of the way for peace of mind now.

[i3oricua]

Do you feel anything or is it just noise? I tried looking back through your posts but I may have missed you saying it clearly.


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[AudiB720TS]

Do you feel anything or is it just noise? I tried looking back through your posts but I may have missed you saying it clearly.


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I feel it in the shifter and pedals (not much), but mostly it is sound. Yesterday I thought I felt it through the drivers door too, but not reproducible.

[Charles.waite]

I would check the axles where they mount to the trans and the driveshaft. I’m assuming the shop disconnected the trans and dropped it when they did the clutch (rather than pull the engine) so those all need to be disconnected to do that. Double check those are tight and centered and then check the heat shields around the axles as well. If it were a flywheel, I feel like you would feel it VERY strongly in the pedal and it would shake the whole car at very specific points. Seems like the noise is a bit random from your videos.

[AudiB720TS]

I would check the axles where they mount to the trans and the driveshaft. I’m assuming the shop disconnected the trans and dropped it when they did the clutch (rather than pull the engine) so those all need to be disconnected to do that. Double check those are tight and centered and then check the heat shields around the axles as well. If it were a flywheel, I feel like you would feel it VERY strongly in the pedal and it would shake the whole car at very specific points. Seems like the noise is a bit random from your videos.

Thanks, great comments.
I made some findings today.
Will post in a bit ;)

[AudiB720TS]

OK, here is what I found:


Snub mount is not centered in bracket and is touching on the left side and bottom
Sub frame is aligned perfectly however
The rear O2 sensor cable is touching a heatshield
One of the mid pipes on the catback has limited clearance


Snub mount has no movement on side & bottom:
http://i65.tinypic.com/2cdtyme.jpg

O2 sensor cable rubbing:
http://i66.tinypic.com/ea5zcp.jpg

Lack of clearance (red) on one side:
http://i63.tinypic.com/2guw682.jpg

Here's what I think is happening:

I think the engine moves and pushes on the snub bracket which then pushes the engine backwards which pushes the O2 sensor and more importantly: the exhaust into the heat shielding causing the sound.


https://youtu.be/uID8n8NsIpw

How do I think this has come to be:

I think the Loba K04 bolt pattern might be off by a tiny bit causing the lack of exhaust piping alignment.
My snub mount alignment was more or less like this before the K04 install...

How will I test this theory?

Well I have now removed both snub mount and snub mount bracket. I plan to drive the car for a day to see if the sound comes back or not.
So far I have drive it a few miles and have not noticed the sound yet...

Look what fills my trunk now:
http://i65.tinypic.com/24osz93.jpg

Then what!?

I am thinking the quick fix would be to install a stock foam snub mount since its both smaller and softer.
I have already pushed the heat shield up around the O2 sensor.
Next I will see if the exhaust mid pipe can be adjusted for more clearance.



What do you guys think about my analysis here?

[i3oricua]

I think you’re probably right with what is rubbing but there’s no need to take the snub mount off that I can see. You might need to get your exhaust tweaked some but that’s all I can see.


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[EvolutionArmory]

I had a huge feeling this was exhaust related. Looks like I’m right.

Get a 90 degree O2 spacer. The tension on the wires and vibration will eventually wear through them.

I think you should have the pipe from your downpipe to the resonator bent over a little to get more clearance on the side that is almost up against the heat shield.

[Charles.waite]

If you’re snub is offcenter your engine isn’t mounted straight or your lock carrier is tweaked. Is your subframe bent at all? First and foremost the engine should be mounted correctly and the snub should be centered...

[EvolutionArmory]

If his subframe isn’t centered, shifting it towards the passenger side should center his exhaust better because the trans mount will be a pivot point so drifting the subframe passenger side should move the exhaust more to the drivers side.

Nice catch Charles. It could work. He’ll of course need an alignment after and hopefully it won’t fuck up his camber too much as the subframe is the only way to adjust it.

If you’ve recently had an alignment done look at your camber specs. If they are perfect don’t move your subframe. If it’s off on one side you might kill 2 birds with one stone by drifting it over.

[AudiB720TS]

If you’re snub is offcenter your engine isn’t mounted straight or your lock carrier is tweaked. Is your subframe bent at all? First and foremost the engine should be mounted correctly and the snub should be centered...

But the subframe IS aligned judging by those alignment/inspection holes near engine mounts. Or are there other points to inspect? I looked for signs of things having been moved like “shading” old marks of dirt, and looked at bolts from sub frame and backwards. Everything looked fine. No signs of damage underneath and clean car fax on the car.

[AudiB720TS]

I don’t have alignment figures, but i can measure a bit with a ruler just to get an impression...

So I am thinking the short term fix is going back to stock snub mount AND bending that exhaust a bit if possible.

The long term solution should be to check the frame + sub frame + wheel alignment, but I really don’t want to deal with that on this side of the year.

[EvolutionArmory]

If your camber is that far off from having a misadjusted subframe getting the alignment done at Audi might be worth it due to tire wear alone. They have a tool that allows them to adjust the subframe on the alignment rack. Having an equal amount of camber on both sides is way more important than having a perfectly centered snub mount and after all the money you’ve dumped into the car already, what’s another couple hundred? Once you know your camber specs you’ll be better informed and will know if a subframe tweak will correct the issue or if you’ll have to tweak your exhaust.

[AudiB720TS]

If your camber is that far off from having a misadjusted subframe getting the alignment done at Audi might be worth it due to tire wear alone. They have a tool that allows them to adjust the subframe on the alignment rack. Having an equal amount of camber on both sides is way more important than having a perfectly centered snub mount and after all the money you’ve dumped into the car already, what’s another couple hundred? Once you know your camber specs you’ll be better informed and will know if a subframe tweak will correct the issue or if you’ll have to tweak your exhaust.

Any idea what this tools is called? I’m gonna have to call them to understand where they have it.

[EvolutionArmory]

I have no idea what the Audi tool catalog number is for the adjuster tool they use. I haven’t seen or used one in 9-10 years. I only know it exists.

And it’s possible that the tool was sourced by Hunter, the brand of the Alignment machine we used. Basically with the engine supported we could hook up the adjuster tool and dial in the camber pretty precisely.

[EvolutionArmory]

I did some digging. For B5’s the subframe tool was called VAG1941. I don’t know if the B6 and 7’s use a different tool number.

And I think all you have to do is hook up the tool and loosen all the subframe bolts while the car is on the alignment rack. No engine support needed. Like I said It’s been about a decade since I used one. Every Audi dealer should have this specialty tool unless a tech stole it, broke it or lost it. 😀

[AudiB720TS]

Cool, thanks

[AudiB720TS]

I rechecked both mounts again and I think my shop installed the drivers side mount into the wrong hole in the bracket. If that's the case then I feel a whole lot better about this stuff.
Wrong hole in the bracket is certainly a lot better than a possible frame damage [drool]

REQUEST: can somebody please post a pic from underneath drivers side engine mount bracket? It’s possible to just stick the phone underneath near wheel well.


I think my shop installed the drivers side mount into the wrong hole in the bracket:
http://i64.tinypic.com/9qgzf9.jpg

[Charles.waite]

I’ll snap a pic in a second. Beware though, my engine mount is leaking fluid so it’s not a pretty sight.

[AudiB720TS]

Pressing F5 ;)

[Charles.waite]

Well, crap I totally spaced and am now at work. However all is not lost:

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1910CIMG2063.JPG

This is from the b6 1.8t motor mount DIY. The main thing should be in the center hole in the round recess. 1.8t and 2.0t use the same mounts and mounting brackets so this should be pretty definitive.

[Charles.waite]

Hmm, on second glance, your mount has an elongated circle center section with two mount points rather than just the one. In this pic from FCP Euro's motor mount DIY it should one similar to your with the mount on the inboard part:

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/3867393/Images/Blog/active/img_2400-3.jpg

Given that in the picture you took of yours you can see some ghosting/wear marks from the bottom nut on the aluminum mount bracket, my guess is that mount should be on the inboard mount point, not the one its on now.

[EvolutionArmory]

https://store.034motorsport.com/images/B5_Motor_Mount_DIY.pdf

[AudiB720TS]

So based on the pictures would you agree my drivers side mount is in the wrong hole?

[Charles.waite]

I would, yes. I can swing by my car in the parking lot at work in a few hours (have a few meetings/lunch right now) and snap a pic just to double confirm but I'm, quite certain its going to be the other hole.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0407/7113/files/giphy-4_d427144b-96b9-46af-9b84-62ef375b78aa_large.gif

[i3oricua]

So based on the pictures would you agree my drivers side mount is in the wrong hole?

Definitely the wrong hole. Here’s a pic of mine before I removed the engine almost 2 weeks ago now. I took the picture on purpose to make sure I put it in correctly when the engine goes back in. Here’s the driver and passenger side.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190517/8c45270d2bfecb568ddfffa1603b647c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190517/61c2579130fb93fa65bf55fb3080d500.jpg


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[AudiB720TS]

Thanks,

So hopefully I can shift that mount over and it will improve my snub mount centering which in turn will increase exhaust clearance which will reduce vibrations.

Butterfly effects, aye!

[AudiB720TS]

Engine mount fixed now and car seems to run a lot better. Will take her out tomorrow and really test things.

Also installing NGK Iridium IX plugs on tuners recommendation.

[AudiB720TS]

Got some noise from the accessory belt tensioner so will be replacing that. There's always money to spend on a car...

http://i66.tinypic.com/2mxopr7.jpg

[Charles.waite]

NGK Iridium plugs have never let me down.

[canadianA4B7]

Are you going to add water meth to your build? I’d think you cud get a bunch more out of her with a good splash of meth?

[AudiB720TS]

Are you going to add water meth to your build? I’d think you cud get a bunch more out of her with a good splash of meth?

Haha, you know how it is: you get used to power very quickly and suddenly your car feels slow and you've gotta add more.

I think if I find a spare engine I will build a forged one on the side with cams and stuff. But until then I want to play safe on what I have.
So not meth (yet) unless my car dynoes less than 300 AWHP this summer.

Oh yeah, I did another "VLOG" piece. No racing just talk...


https://youtu.be/qAMD0bP29eo

[EvolutionArmory]

Talk is cheap. Let’s see the logs!!😀

[AudiB720TS]

Not much going on with the build, but yesterday some asshole reversed into my car (he didn’t check the mirrors), then blamed me for running into his car (I was stationary) and called the police.

Only minor damages on both cars, his a brand new B9. Police never came of course - in Sweden nowadays they don’t even come if there’s an ongoing rape (what I told him). Guy gave up after 40 min on hold with police and agreed to sort it with insurance instead.

Still, what a fucking jerk: reverse into me and then make up a story. People these days are just messed up. Of course he wasn’t Swedish either.

[i3oricua]

Not much going on with the build, but yesterday some asshole reversed into my car (he didn’t check the mirrors), then blamed me for running into his car (I was stationary) and called the police.

Only minor damages on both cars, his a brand new B9. Police never came of course - in Sweden nowadays they don’t even come if there’s an ongoing rape (what I told him). Guy gave up after 40 min on hold with police and agreed to sort it with insurance instead.

Still, what a fucking jerk: reverse into me and then make up a story. People these days are just messed up. Of course he wasn’t Swedish either.

This is why I have a camera installed on the front and back. Glad to hear your okay though.

[AudiB720TS]

This is why I have a camera installed on the front and back. Glad to hear your okay though.

Yeah, thanks.
I think I’ll get a camera too.

Noticed the airbag light is on now, so maybe an issue with that or just a code to erase.

[Charles.waite]

If your bumper got hit, it could have damaged one of the crash sensors on the bumper or crash bar. Those trigger an airbag warning I think. I forgot to reconnect one working on my q5 once and Imthe airbag light on the dash wouldn’t go off until I realized I forgot and reconnected it.

[AudiB720TS]

https://youtu.be/1fTGtT_Rsog


BTW, will book a dyno for July 14 (most likely).

[AudiB720TS]

Came upon an RS4 B5 on the highway today; Man that car was fast! Probably upgraded because took me 20 minutes and traffic to catch up with it. Makes me wanna sell the car and buy one of those. Really wide and perfectly planted on the road.

[AudiB720TS]

Dyno confirmed for July 15.

It's at the end of a 6 hour drive so I hope I won't lose to much power due to heat soak and what not.

[Charles.waite]

Jealous that you guys got real b5 RS4s. Such iconic cars.

[EvolutionArmory]

Did you ever end up getting that second dyno on the 15th?

[AudiB720TS]

I did, yes [facepalm][headbang]

It dynoed SIGNIFICANTLY less than expected (watch below). The discrepancy doesn't make sense however I look at it.
The people doing the dyno [here] think this is the truth of the Rototest being the most accurate and unbiased dyno in the world (maybe the same accuracy then is what has led to the Rototest becoming less popular over time, or so is my impression) while my tuner insists that their dyno is correct and they are still happy to sell me my printout.

Having thought about my next move from here, I think the logical next step would be to either redo the dyno at the tuner and film it (instead of just buying my old print, this would tell me what power the car makes "today") OR to find a third AWD dyno and preferably one that would be common in the US for a fair comparison across this discussion board. Then again, the tuners Mustang AWD dyno is common.

Either way and to the point of the Rototest crowd: any other dyno will have a programmable bias. Yet on the same token, setting up the Rototest requires inputting gearing information. Possibly we had that wrong (got from Audizine [:p] ), but not sure what if anything that would do to my results at this particular venue. Really good and skilled people by the way.



https://youtu.be/I6xqiIPY8VY

[EvolutionArmory]

Forget about your peak numbers. What’s the difference between your stage 2 and LOBA pulls? How much power did you gain?

[EvolutionArmory]

At this point I think it’s safe to say that you shouldn’t get too hung up on what numbers you get from various dynos across the country. Quite frankly your dyno numbers only really further my belief that European dyno numbers are a little skewed and there isn’t really a standard like ASE correction that we use here in the US.

You have your baseline Rototest numbers from stage 2 and have your LO400 numbers done on the same dyno. I’d use the difference between the 2 as a more accurate gauge of if your upgrade was worth it and not your peak numbers. You could go to 3 different dynos and get 3 different numbers. What I’m really interested in seeing would be your peak MAF numbers from a VCDS log. Seeing where and if it hits 300gs and for how long would tell you if you’re closer to 280 than 300 WHP in my opinion.

Dyno figures can only tell you so much as those figures can be influenced by equipment and the operator’s input where as your logs are actual readings from your car. I think both combined tells the whole story VS one or the other.

[AudiB720TS]

What I’m really interested in seeing would be your peak MAF numbers from a VCDS log. Seeing where and if it hits 300gs and for how long would tell you if you’re closer to 280 than 300 WHP in my opinion.

Yes, it's on my shopping list. Just hate that the price is so high for the authentic VCDS - had they sold it for a hundred bucks they would have sold millions of those units. It's nearly four hundred dollars here with shipping, for a unit that supports 3 VINs. Anyways, I'll fork out for it in the next couple of months. Will probably do both another dyno AND logging with VCDS this fall.

You know the challenge of all this is really how my project is scoped, right!? It's a 300 WHP project so anything less than that and the project is not complete. And I cannot accept incomplete. So this will go on for sake of closure, or it must be re-scoped. But I also wouldn't accept downgrading that goal. So it could turn into 400 (C)HP instead. Let's see.

[Charles.waite]

They’re a lot of money but totally worth it.

[EvolutionArmory]

They’re a lot of money but totally worth it.

It is totally worth it, especially if you have a stage 3 car. If I didn’t have VCDS I never would have known my car was seriously down on power. My MAF and boost logs told me.

My car was making stage 2 MAF readings at first (225gs peak) and after getting a different tune and adjusting the turbo to spec I picked up almost 60gs. That’s a 20% increase in airflow that was left on the table. 🤣

I would never had known if I didn’t do logs. And my final logs were then backed up by a dyno. My car made 270 wheel and my peak MAF number was 269. The car now makes 282 peak MAF so my further tweaks after the dyno gained additional air flow and more power. Maybe not 12 additional wheel horsepower but more power none the less.

Get VCDS is the moral of the story. Every one of us could benefit from it but especially stage 3 guys.

[Charles.waite]

Yup. I bought mine back in 2010 when I got my first b7 and I’ve used it for for 5 total Audi’s that I’ve owned. I actually upgraded it just last week because the older HEX-NET interface doesn’t support the new optical UDS protocol in my wife’s new 4M Q7 so I needed to upgrade it to get rid of the seatbelt chime among other things. Figured the WiFi connection for it would be a boon and rather than sitting outside in the car by myself I can plug it in, then sit inside with the wife and hang out while I’m doing any coding or poking around at measuring blocks or adaptations.

I still consider my original cable one of the best $400 I’ve ever spent on my cars. My new cable is limited to 10 VINs but I figure that should be enough for my cars and my close friends. Worst case, in a year or two I’ve maxed it out and I’ll spend the $150 on an unlimited VIN upgrade.

[AudiB720TS]

Got myself a donor. Who can tell what you're looking at?

http://i68.tinypic.com/s4rt4h.jpg


If healthy, this engine will support part 2 of this project. Let's call it "400 CHP" for now.

[texasboy21]

Golf R engine?

[EvolutionArmory]

You might be there already and just logging your MAF might tell you if you’re there.

If you see peak MAF readings of 320gs, your car is probably making 400 crank

320 x 1.25 = 400

300 x 1.25 = 375

My peak MAF matched my wheel horsepower almost exactly when I dynoed last year. Instead of spending thousands on a new build, invest a few hundred and just do a MAF log. Your car did 300+ wheel on a dyno already. Check that figure against your MAF logs and you’ll get a better idea if your 280 hub dyno or 312 roller dyno is more accurate.

[EvolutionArmory]

MAF log done while on the rollers
134271

Dyno sheet from that run
134272

Peak MAF and WHP are almost identical. After some tweaking I was able to gain 12gs on the MAF which is safe to say that logically, I picked up 10-12 WHP from the time of this dyno.

So now if I’m making 282 WHP it’s safe to say I’m making 352 CHP.

Just get some logs done to help verify your dyno numbers. You might already be where you want and might just be throwing money away trying to get arbitrary numbers on a sheet of paper.

Or take your car down the 1/4 mile. If your trap speed is around 105-108 MPH, you’re probably already there. Just focus on trap speed because trap speed won’t change too much if you’re inexperienced. You have to REALLY blow a run for trap speed suffer horribly.

Edit: You would need a 110 MPH trap speed in a 3800 pound car with you in it to make 395 crank horsepower


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[AudiB720TS]

Golf R engine?

Close enough. It's an S3 8P engine (bhz).
Will sell most of it like turbo, injectors etc., but keep the head if in good condition.
Gotta few ideas I wanna try to get some more power. Might keep rods and pistons too or just sell the complete block.


MAF log done while on the rollers
134271

Dyno sheet from that run
134272

Peak MAF and WHP are almost identical. After some tweaking I was able to gain 12gs on the MAF which is safe to say that logically, I picked up 10-12 WHP from the time of this dyno.

So now if I’m making 282 WHP it’s safe to say I’m making 352 CHP.

Just get some logs done to help verify your dyno numbers. You might already be where you want and might just be throwing money away trying to get arbitrary numbers on a sheet of paper.

Or take your car down the 1/4 mile. If your trap speed is around 105-108 MPH, you’re probably already there. Just focus on trap speed because trap speed won’t change too much if you’re inexperienced. You have to REALLY blow a run for trap speed suffer horribly.

Edit: You would need a 110 MPH trap speed in a 3800 pound car with you in it to make 395 crank horsepower


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If my parts trading (see above) goes well I'll get the VCDS this month. Planning to do those MAF readings for you and also log the fuel to see if that 5mm drill trick is the real deal or not.
I think the tuner recorded some 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph), 100-200 kmh and 402 meters (1/4 mile) with P-Gear. I'll ask if they still have the video.

[EvolutionArmory]

That 1/4 mile info would be good to see but the data will only be as good as the app.

If that quarter mile info is 13 seconds or less, you’re probably in the 300 WHP club.

[AudiB720TS]

Got turbo off the S3 engine, intake removed, HPFP removed plus loads of crap removed.
However two of the injectors won't come out no matter what I try. Used up a can of penetrating oil and tried every tool I can think of ('cept for the Audi mechanic tools).
I think there's old oil from the vc and dust in the bores. Even tried a small crowbar to pop them out but no luck. Any ideas?

Engine looks OK so far: timing was correct, cylinder head looks nice and clean, cam follower had wear but no holes in it. It's just a bit rusty on the outside. Probably been sitting for a while.

[EvolutionArmory]

That Audi mini slide hammer in the tool kit works pretty well.

[AudiB720TS]

That Audi mini slide hammer in the tool kit works pretty well.

You mean T10133? Don't really want to pay for that, but yeah, might go that route.

[EvolutionArmory]

When I need a tool I might only use once I’ll usually buy it and sell it for like 75% of what I paid for it.

That way it’s like renting it when it sells.

[AudiB720TS]

Quite frustrated with the engine disassembly; It seems each task requires specialty tools from VAG and that there is a lot of room for error. I've done ported heads and reground cams on a car before, but got by on basic tools. The EA113 just seems so complicated by comparison. Goddamn Germans over-engineering things. Oh, and I cut up my hand trying to pull them injectors so I will need to let it heal for a week maybe [headbang]

That said, I am going to put that engine ordeal out of my head for a while and look at fixing a few service items instead:

1. Audio issues since new stereo was installed.
2. Parking aid not working since washer fluid leakage in the rear panels.

To troubleshoot 2 above and to answer EA on MAF readings and to see rail pressure (want to know if the tune actually makes use of my 155 bar PRV) and strain on LPFP (want to see if that 5mm drill works) I have gone ahead and paid for the VCDS. Should have it by end of next week.

[AudiB720TS]

VCDS has arrived. Was a five min install and it connected like a charm. No issues [:D]
Will do some logging tomorrow time permitting.

VCDS: authentic vs fake:
https://i.ibb.co/vZnMLFy/vcds.jpg (https://ibb.co/4Pr04qv)

I also have the head off the spare engine now. It looks good overall as far as I can asses, but possibly cam has some wear on HPFP lobe.
Block also looks OK - again as far as an amateur can asses. Next is getting the cams out which is proving to be a challenge even with the lock tool installed (they still turn under force....).
Will probably need a friend to counter hold the gear on one side of the head while I get the other one off. Then if the cam proves worn I can just vice it and get the other cog thingy off.

Cylinder head removed.
https://i.ibb.co/zb3rrdm/head.jpg (https://ibb.co/5vQ66Z1)

Leaning towards keeping both block and head and just restoring the block, porting the head and upgrading the springs. If that works out I can just swap without too much downtime.

[AudiB720TS]

One of the things I want to do with the head is to fill the void left when removing the intake port dividers.
This picture below is from APR's CNC ported TFSI head. What do you think is the best approach to this?

https://i.ibb.co/pxQVJfq/filled-flaps.jpg (https://ibb.co/56kpBrZ)

I am thinking either get a 9 mm aluminum rod, weld it on and then grind it down to level with runner (I am guessing this is what APR does)
or I can draw these rods up in CAD to exact spec and CNC them in China (fairly cheap) and then weld them in.

Thoughts? I don't want to hear its not worth it (I'm doing it), just want some ideas on *how*.

Thanks

[EvolutionArmory]

Good luck with that 🤣


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[Charles.waite]

Why do you want to get rid of the intake runners?

[AudiB720TS]

Why do you want to get rid of the intake runners?

I will do the "Runner Flap Delete" mod on the intake manifold and I'm seeing people saying to remove the dividers in the cylinder head as part of that mod (and because supposedly they can fail and toast the engine).
Leaving those voids can't be good for flow so I then prefer filling them, if I take the dividers out. Also will be porting that head and if this part of the runner is touched (enlarged) then it will cut into the divider plastics, which can't be good either.
Thoughts?

[EvolutionArmory]

Head work has such diminishing returns on these cars unless you go the 5 axis CNC route like APR or IE offers. I say leave it alone.

Keep it simple and have no problems. You still have a K04 framed turbo. Head work isn’t needed....like at all. If the head isn’t a restriction, will a port job really help you out? If you were big turbo trying to make power at 7K, sure, it might be worth it but with your turbo, exhaust manifold and intake manifold I doubt you’ll see a huge gain to justify the expense.

[Jet08]

There is a runner flap delete kit that fits in to that area on the head which is a safer \ cheaper option than filler.

[AudiB720TS]

Head work has such diminishing returns on these cars unless you go the 5 axis CNC route like APR or IE offers. I say leave it alone.

I think APR has been allowed to cement a belief that porting heads has no benefits - unless you have (their) large turbo kit. They've tested so many heads during years of development (...). Really? I'm sure they binned a few heads programming their CNC machine and I'm sure they concluded that it's only worth the effort and $ for most customers (and for them to do it) if they offer that one all out head for our car. Possibly when you port the head as much as they do, you will lose power on a small frame turbo. But if you port a lot less than they have, then you surely must have gains even on a K03/K04. Point is they've ported for a big turbo. I'm gonna port for a smaller turbo.

Have a look at this post (super interesting) showing a 2.0T TFSI head under the knife: https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/article-2-litre-tfsi-cylinder-head-cutaway.277100/


There is a runner flap delete kit that fits in to that area on the head which is a safer \ cheaper option than filler.

Would be great if you could find and share that. I haven't seen it and I can't imagine how it would be implemented given the IM gasket...

VCDS
In other news I was out data logging last night risking life, limb and drivers license. Was raining a bit and car felt so much faster than last time I logged on stage 2.
I came back only to find VCDS had only written one data point to the files, at idle [headbang] I think its a product registration issue, but that was a big disappointment given the risk and effort last night.
Will get the product registered today and try find a road that allows me to do the 4th gear pull some time over the weekend.

[i3oricua]

I think APR has been allowed to cement a belief that porting heads has no benefits - unless you have (their) large turbo kit. They've tested so many heads during years of development (...). Really? I'm sure they binned a few heads programming their CNC machine and I'm sure they concluded that it's only worth the effort and $ for most customers (and for them to do it) if they offer that one all out head for our car. Possibly when you port the head as much as they do, you will lose power on a small frame turbo. But if you port a lot less than they have, then you surely must have gains even on a K03/K04. Point is they've ported for a big turbo. I'm gonna port for a smaller turbo.

Have a look at this post (super interesting) showing a 2.0T TFSI head under the knife: https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/article-2-litre-tfsi-cylinder-head-cutaway.277100/



Would be great if you could find and share that. I haven't seen it and I can't imagine how it would be implemented given the IM gasket...

VCDS
In other news I was out data logging last night risking life, limb and drivers license. Was raining a bit and car felt so much faster than last time I logged on stage 2.
I came back only to find VCDS had only written one data point to the files, at idle [headbang] I think its a product registration issue, but that was a big disappointment given the risk and effort last night.
Will get the product registered today and try find a road that allows me to do the 4th gear pull some time over the weekend.

I’m looking forward to the head work you get done and seeing your results.

You don’t have to do the pull in 4th gear. That may the most optimum gear possibly but a good 3rd gear pull should tell you a lot too. 4th gear is pretty long and you will get up to some crazy speed trying to do that log.


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[AudiB720TS]

I’m looking forward to the head work you get done and seeing your results.

You don’t have to do the pull in 4th gear. That may the most optimum gear possibly but a good 3rd gear pull should tell you a lot too. 4th gear is pretty long and you will get up to some crazy speed trying to do that log.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, was scary yesterday when trying 4th!

On the flip side, peak power is currently below 6K RPM so no need to go 7K for this: I'll just go a bit over 6K I think to get an indication of that LPFP running out of steam or not.

[AudiB720TS]

Anyone knows how I log intercooler performance with VCDS? I guess I need ambient and intake air temp and compare those two?

[AudiB720TS]

OK, this was written to disk last night. I think it was when at a standstill configuring the logging.
MAF reading at idle seems very low. From what I understand it should be upwards 3.5-4 g/s(?) for this engine.
Thoughts on what the issue might be or where to look?


Address 01: Engine (8E0 910 115 N)

21:41:10
720 /min Engine Speed (G28)
2.03 g/s Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
1.2 % Throttle Valve Angle
0.0 % Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 1 (G79)
0.51 ms Injection Timing
5.12 bar Current Fuel Pressure
172.9 % Engine Load (specified)
14.3 % Engine Load (actual Value)
290.0 mbar Boost Pressure (specified)
1000.0 mbar Boost Pressure (actual)
50.22 bar Rail Pressure (actual)

[EvolutionArmory]

No need for a 4th gear pull. 3rd gear from 1500-redline is only like 90 MPH top speed. Still breaking the law in most places but not lose your driving privileges speeds in most places if you get in trouble 😀


And yes, take logs to redline. Anything less is an incomplete log. 1500-redline foot to the floor the whole time. Hit record at 1500. Go to redline foot to the floor. Hit stop.

[EvolutionArmory]

And your MAF at idle is only a little lower than you would expect. Most of us see readings in the 2.5 GS range at sea level. Are you near sea level or at elevation?

MAF sensor rule of thumb is 1 GS per liter of displacement at 500 PRM’s. Or cars idle around 750-800 so around 2.5 is average.

[EvolutionArmory]

The block to measure intake temps is 004.

These are the blocks I like to log. I always log 003 when I do a group so I can see throttle position and RPM with it.

First group boost

003 gives you MAF, throttle position, timing, RPM
115 gives you actual and specified boost
119 gives you N75 duty cycle

Second group fuel

003 for throttle position and RPM
230 for high pressure fuel actual and specified
231 for low pressure actual and specified

3rd group timing

003 for throttle position, timing and RPM
020 for individual cylinder correction factor
004 for intake air temp and engine cooling

4th group fuel trim

003 MAF, throttle position and RPM
031 Lambda
106 for fuel pump duty cycle

You can figure out almost any of the common performance issue by logging those groups.

[AudiB720TS]

The block to measure intake temps is 004.

These are the blocks I like to log. I always log 003 when I do a group so I can see throttle position and RPM with it.

First group boost

003 gives you MAF, throttle position, timing, RPM
115 gives you actual and specified boost
119 gives you N75 duty cycle

Second group fuel

003 for throttle position and RPM
230 for high pressure fuel actual and specified
231 for low pressure actual and specified

3rd group timing

003 for throttle position, timing and RPM
020 for individual cylinder correction factor
004 for intake air temp and engine cooling

4th group fuel trim

003 MAF, throttle position and RPM
031 Lambda
106 for fuel pump duty cycle

You can figure out almost any of the common performance issue by logging those groups.

Great, thanks.

I did find a csv log from yesterday (confusion!) so seems the lack of product registration did not limit the logging feature after all. Now, it's very wavy because of on/off driving and poor conditions.
Not ideal for diagnosis, but a few things stand out: actual boost struggles to respond and meet specified boost (and its above specified at low RPMs), MAF reading is poor and max out at 250 g/s.

https://i.imgur.com/S3SvPr6.png

I am thinking there is a vacuum leak or boost leak. Could explain the 280 WHP versus the 312 WHP dyno.
Between the two dynos the following has happened (from the top of my head):


I changed sparkplugs,
my garage redid one engine mount,
I had a small collision hitting near the FMIC...



I checked / felt around the FMIC piping/couplers just now and it feels solid. There is a line (vacuum?) near the oil filler cap that I can pull off a bit too easy, but other than that I don't have any ideas as of now.


https://youtu.be/XwadGxLRFkw

[EvolutionArmory]

Unless you did a log from 1500-redline with your foot to the floor the whole time, the data is incomplete.

Your boost log will tell you if you have a boost leak. If you have high N75 duty cycle and low boost numbers the whole time, you probably have a leak. Usually N75 duty cycle will be in the 80-90% range at boost ramp up and drop to the 50-60% range after spool. If your turbo is efficient it should stay in that 50-60% range. If your duty cycle stays high you could have a boost leak because the N75 is just throwing duty cycle at the turbo to make up for the leak.

Now that you have a tune it might also be necessary to make wastegate preload adjustments to optimize how boost is regulated unless your tuner did all that already.

And yes, your MAF seems low for a 300 WHP car but MAF readings can only tell you so much. You would expect your reading to at least be close to 300 but as of now, your car is flowing 30 GS less than my K04. Unless your tuner is scaling the MAF table differently, something is probably off.

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s an example of really bad boost logs. I had an intercooler leak and a misadjusted wastegate.

Boost. Took forever to spool and tapered too fast.

135551

N75. Was at 100%, dropped down too far after spool and climbed back to 100%

135552

Here’s everything corrected and running far better.

135553

135554

N75 is a little high at the end and maybe a little wastegate adjustment will bring it down at redline, maybe not.


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[AudiB720TS]

The block to measure intake temps is 004.

These are the blocks I like to log. I always log 003 when I do a group so I can see throttle position and RPM with it.

First group boost

003 gives you MAF, throttle position, timing, RPM
115 gives you actual and specified boost
119 gives you N75 duty cycle

Second group fuel

003 for throttle position and RPM
230 for high pressure fuel actual and specified
231 for low pressure actual and specified

3rd group timing

003 for throttle position, timing and RPM
020 for individual cylinder correction factor
004 for intake air temp and engine cooling

4th group fuel trim

003 MAF, throttle position and RPM
031 Lambda
106 for fuel pump duty cycle

You can figure out almost any of the common performance issue by logging those groups.

Just so that we are clear: when you say 'group' then I need all the items within for example 003 (003-1 etc.)? I don't think I can select all at once, but have to select within that bracket so to speak.

[texasboy21]

Just so that we are clear: when you say 'group' then I need all the items within for example 003 (003-1 etc.)? I don't think I can select all at once, but have to select within that bracket so to speak.

APR has a nice walk through on how to setup vagcom for data logging. It should be helpful! [up]

https://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php

[AudiB720TS]

APR has a nice walk through on how to setup vagcom for data logging. It should be helpful! [up]

https://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php

Thanks,
I have that printed in my glove compartment. I did one of those logs yesterday.
Just looking to compare a few things with EA on here that are slightly different.

[Jet08]

CTS, but there other kits available.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-cts-parts/intake-manifold-runner-flap-delete-kit/ctshw031~cts/

[EvolutionArmory]

Just so that we are clear: when you say 'group' then I need all the items within for example 003 (003-1 etc.)? I don't think I can select all at once, but have to select within that bracket so to speak.

Yeah, don’t select advance settings. Just log in regular measured value blocks. You can log 3 blocks at once and it logs all of the 4 sections of that block


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[AudiB720TS]

And your MAF at idle is only a little lower than you would expect. Most of us see readings in the 2.5 GS range at sea level. Are you near sea level or at elevation?

MAF sensor rule of thumb is 1 GS per liter of displacement at 500 PRM’s. Or cars idle around 750-800 so around 2.5 is average.

This log was about 100-150 feet above sea level.


Unless you did a log from 1500-redline with your foot to the floor the whole time, the data is incomplete.

Your boost log will tell you if you have a boost leak. If you have high N75 duty cycle and low boost numbers the whole time, you probably have a leak. Usually N75 duty cycle will be in the 80-90% range at boost ramp up and drop to the 50-60% range after spool. If your turbo is efficient it should stay in that 50-60% range. If your duty cycle stays high you could have a boost leak because the N75 is just throwing duty cycle at the turbo to make up for the leak.

Now that you have a tune it might also be necessary to make wastegate preload adjustments to optimize how boost is regulated unless your tuner did all that already.

And yes, your MAF seems low for a 300 WHP car but MAF readings can only tell you so much. You would expect your reading to at least be close to 300 but as of now, your car is flowing 30 GS less than my K04. Unless your tuner is scaling the MAF table differently, something is probably off.

Yeah, I showed that log to the tuner and they suggested I come in for troubleshooting. Given how expensive they are I will see if I can track this down myself first.
Going to do those logs and then maybe a smoke test if I can figure the tooling out for that.


Yeah, don’t select advance settings. Just log in regular measured value blocks. You can log 3 blocks at once and it logs all of the 4 sections of that block


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Cool, will try that.

[aluthman]

I’m about 5 g/s at idle here, but I’m at about 700’ above sea level and have a 880-900rpm idle. I wouldn’t be concerned with what you’re seeing.

[AudiB720TS]

Okay gentlemen, I've done the logs (EA's approach). All at 3rd gear pulls on wet road. Note my fuel cutoff is 6800 RPM.
Would greatly appreciate any input on what, if anything could be wrong with the car, AND your thoughts on fueling (specifically LPFP), and cooling with the Airtec FMIC. Only starting to look at these myself now...

Note: follow link to configure what is displayed.

Boost (003,115,119)
Click for full log here. (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263927#H8KLCADDlz9QXQIDbcKNTQ7DgiAQwoXDrzLDqyEpw5p EPQthMcOKwoTCklRoYDDDlcOTW2jDksK4cMO5w57Dt37CjMKBR 3rDnkNkw6VzwqpLARwsNnNOOXx4wpMIwp4jZxLChsKdw4QXZ1H CksOUwqpoDcKtwrF3wqbDoFg5Eiosw408wqPDpMOKw7%2FDiMO lIMOkwpx6HzPCkMKDwp%2FCpMOfbMOJH2AGw5Q4w6IVb3jCsgj CukfCqEoqw4scw7rCpB7CrcO9AsKOKQdgw40AAAA%3D)
https://malonetuning.com/assets/uploads/c0da41c0e11d2601f99e615affeb31e3.png (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263927#H8KLCADDlz9QXQIDbcKNTQ7DgiAQwoXDrzLDqyEpw5p EPQthMcOKwoTCklRoYDDDlcOTW2jDksK4cMO5w57Dt37CjMKBR 3rDnkNkw6VzwqpLARwsNnNOOXx4wpMIwp4jZxLChsKdw4QXZ1H CksOUwqpoDcKtwrF3wqbDoFg5Eiosw408wqPDpMOKw7%2FDiMO lIMOkwpx6HzPCkMKDwp%2FCpMOfbMOJH2AGw5Q4w6IVb3jCsgj CukfCqEoqw4scw7rCpB7CrcO9AsKOKQdgw40AAAA%3D)

Fuel (003,230,231)
Click for full log here (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263929#H8KLCADDrEFQXQIDZcKNw4EKw4IwEETDv2XDjxswWsO 1Y0IOw5EsNcOQZsOLZltawr%2FDnsK0ARE8w47Cm3nCjHMgNMO yQiYGDcKFFMOQw6LDhcOjPz43w7zDpMOxwpEywpleeMKeCsOgw qnDgcKBJcK9wqlGwoTCnjJJUMKCw5bDpMKFRMKNwrJZTVjDk24 0J8OEaMK2LwJJw71LD8Klwr7DvRTCrsO%2BYsKHV8K8w6HDnSP DmGMSZsOlMg1Jw7fChcOtwrzDvwDCplEzw67DhwAAAA%3D%3D) .
https://malonetuning.com/assets/uploads/0c228d31f1bcd178d9ce85748dab6035.png (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263929#H8KLCADDrEFQXQIDZcKNw4EKw4IwEETDv2XDjxswWsO 1Y0IOw5EsNcOQZsOLZltawr%2FDnsK0ARE8w47Cm3nCjHMgNMO yQiYGDcKFFMOQw6LDhcOjPz43w7zDpMOxwpEywpleeMKeCsOgw qnDgcKBJcK9wqlGwoTCnjJJUMKCw5bDpMKFRMKNwrJZTVjDk24 0J8OEaMK2LwJJw71LD8Klwr7DvRTCrsO%2BYsKHV8K8w6HDnSP DmGMSZsOlMg1Jw7fChcOtwrzDvwDCplEzw67DhwAAAA%3D%3D)

Timing (003,020,004)
Click for full log here (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263928#H8KLCADDr0BQXQIDTcKMw4sOw4IgFETDv8KFw7XCkBT CrcKvbyFdwqDDnFDCkgoNXEzDtcOrBcKaGMKXM3PDpmgtHsOxe cO3woHCpEvCscKsWWDCmMOQw4olJsO%2FwqEaIRwFSsKGScOsS 3hRYsOJUW7DkmzCvj3DtsOPw6wtSWvDmGTDolZew4DCqVBbwoz CtcOyw73Cg0XDsm7Dpi7Cq8Okw5%2FCoAcoHHDDhMKIE8OOwrj DogZVw41CdcOWFMKOeV18d8KrccKawr7ChSnCncOWwrwAAAA%3 D).
https://malonetuning.com/assets/uploads/c849ebd3d531e4a8b329ac53fe87045c.png (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263928#H8KLCADDr0BQXQIDTcKMw4sOw4IgFETDv8KFw7XCkBT CrcKvbyFdwqDDnFDCkgoNXEzDtcOrBcKaGMKXM3PDpmgtHsOxe cO3woHCpEvCscKsWWDCmMOQw4olJsO%2FwqEaIRwFSsKGScOsS 3hRYsOJUW7DkmzCvj3DtsOPw6wtSWvDmGTDolZew4DCqVBbwoz CtcOyw73Cg0XDsm7Dpi7Cq8Okw5%2FCoAcoHHDDhMKIE8OOwrj DogZVw41CdcOWFMKOeV18d8KrccKawr7ChSnCncOWwrwAAAA%3 D)

Fuel trim(003,031,106)
Click for full log here (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263930#H8KLCABRQlBdAgNtwo5BDsKDIBBFw68yw6shUWt7GcO CYlomwpREw4HDgGjCtMKnL0jDknTDoXLDnsO%2FL8OzwrXChsO Ec8OcWFkSw4oswoA9w54MXsOhw6EKDw3Cv8Oiw7zDtMKBwpVLc V0yYMOXw6AUwpPDv3A5ERwHTiQMLQkbJ1ESw5XCrmjDt8OVaA5 ZwqvCjh%2FCgsOkw51bTsKlfMO7C3RXd8OiwojCj8Kyw6BuEMO 6wrNEwqvDhMK8TF5qwqcfwo3DuQLCkMOTHMK%2Bw6AAAAA%3D) .
https://malonetuning.com/assets/uploads/d2d8d24a12747a54f9b92d6f99dd673f.png (https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/263930#H8KLCABRQlBdAgNtwo5BDsKDIBBFw68yw6shUWt7GcO CYlomwpREw4HDgGjCtMKnL0jDknTDoXLDnsO%2FL8OzwrXChsO Ec8OcWFkSw4oswoA9w54MXsOhw6EKDw3Cv8Oiw7zDtMKBwpVLc V0yYMOXw6AUwpPDv3A5ERwHTiQMLQkbJ1ESw5XCrmjDt8OVaA5 ZwqvCjh%2FCgsOkw51bTsKlfMO7C3RXd8OiwojCj8Kyw6BuEMO 6wrNEwqvDhMK8TF5qwqcfwo3DuQLCkMOTHMK%2Bw6AAAAA%3D)

[EvolutionArmory]

Rail pressure asks for 140 bar so the 155 bar PRV was definitely needed, you’re exceeding requested rail pressure so the bored out HPFP fitting looks like decent cheap insurance, your intercooler seems to be holding intake temps QUITE well.

Boost is off. Actual never meets requested and N75 duty cycle is REALLY low at the beginning of the log. its only at 50% at spool up. I think your wastegate might be opening too early not allowing you to get proper boost built up. This could be because of wastegate crack pressure being too low or it could be a byproduct of how much duty cycle the tuner built into the tune, which is adjustable.

Low pressure fuel is inconsistent but above 4 bar which is great. Timing ramp up isn't super aggressive.

[AudiB720TS]

Boost is off. Actual never meets requested and N75 duty cycle is REALLY low at the beginning of the log. its only at 50% at spool up. I think your wastegate might be opening too early not allowing you to get proper boost built up. This could be because of wastegate crack pressure being too low or it could be a byproduct of how much duty cycle the tuner built into the tune, which is adjustable.


Thanks,
I'll start looking into this.

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s a decent article that explains wastegate duty cycle better than I can. Basically when you have really low wastegate duty cycle, you’re not using the turbo to it’s full potential because it’s basically only running a little more than spring pressure. You want duty cycle to be very high at the beginning of the log so it spools quick and stay in the 50-60% range in the middle and maybe make a gradual increase towards redline.
https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/what-wastegate-duty-cycle-and-boost-curve-can-tell-us-about-our-turbo-setups/


Your boost numbers are still good as you’re making 20 PSI at 3k but you never hit the 22 PSI that it is asking for. You either have 2 little wastegate preload on the actuator or the tuner limited the duty cycle in his tune. He may have done that on purpose to try to save your block as you’re on the stock rods. You’d have to ask him.

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s a recent log of my own wastegate duty cycle. It looks mint until 6K where it climbs steady up to 80-90%. This is either due to only running a 2.5 inch down pipe and I hit an exhaust restriction or I’m at the end of my K04’s efficiency range.

136042

I could also try adjusting my wastegate preload about another half psi to get it in line and have closer to 100% duty cycle at spool up but the car runs pretty great right now so I might just be chasing something that doesn’t matter. I really think my car would benefit most from a 3 inch downpipe anyway. A turbo blanket might also be all the car needs as hotter exhaust gas will flow better.

If my boost log wasn’t so close throughout the whole log I might be more motivated to chase it.
136043

This is why logging is so valuable. Once you understand what your car is really doing, it can help you with the finer details.


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[AudiB720TS]

In other news I've now compared the BUL head gasket with the BHZ and they are in fact identical. Most likely if one wanted to do a hybrid engine one could just mix any EA113 head and block.
So remains to see if pistons are different making up for a documented higher compression ratio. Otherwise its just the stock ECU tune difference and the manufacturing plant.


https://i.imgur.com/sJQpEGL.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Here’s a decent article that explains wastegate duty cycle better than I can. Basically when you have really low wastegate duty cycle, you’re not using the turbo to it’s full potential because it’s basically only running a little more than spring pressure. You want duty cycle to be very high at the beginning of the log so it spools quick and stay in the 50-60% range in the middle and maybe make a gradual increase towards redline.
https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/what-wastegate-duty-cycle-and-boost-curve-can-tell-us-about-our-turbo-setups/


Thanks, a bit conflicting on spring rating but interesting read.

"Spring pressure is the least amount of boost we can run in the system without going to a softer spring. To increase the boost beyond spring pressure we must either get a different spring..."

If spring pressure is the lower end of boost on a given spring then "beyond" that would be any other boost pressure above that lowest point on the same spring. Maybe it's a typo in their text? Not sure it matters since the text is mostly on the N75...
Forge (UK) makes a K04 actuator with replaceable springs by the way.



Your boost numbers are still good as you’re making 20 PSI at 3k but you never hit the 22 PSI that it is asking for.

So this is what concerns me: it not making requested boost. I've gotta assume that during the tune on the rollers the car would have made requested boost. Otherwise the tuner would have adjusted WG/actuator/N75 or simply reduced the requested amount of boost to what the turbo can deliver, right?


...or the tuner limited the duty cycle in his tune. He may have done that on purpose to try to save your block as you’re on the stock rods. You’d have to ask him.

It's something we discussed. I was clear I wanted reliability over maximum power.

[EvolutionArmory]

Thanks, a bit conflicting on spring rating but interesting read.

"Spring pressure is the least amount of boost we can run in the system without going to a softer spring. To increase the boost beyond spring pressure we must either get a different spring..."

If spring pressure is the lower end of boost on a given spring then "beyond" that would be any other boost pressure above that lowest point on the same spring. Maybe it's a typo in their text? Not sure it matters since the text is mostly on the N75...
Forge (UK) makes a K04 actuator with replaceable springs by the way.

Yeah, spring pressure will be the most boost you can run without the N75 to assist it. Above spring pressure, that’s where the N75 comes in



So this is what concerns me: it not making requested boost. I've gotta assume that during the tune on the rollers the car would have made requested boost. Otherwise the tuner would have adjusted WG/actuator/N75 or simply reduced the requested amount of boost to what the turbo can deliver, right?

You would assume the tuner would set requested boost with being able to meet it in mind or why else would he set it there



It's something we discussed. I was clear I wanted reliability over maximum power.

What I find odd is that your N75 duty is so low. If there was a boost leak, N75 duty would surely be higher trying to compensate for the leak.

My response in bold.

[EvolutionArmory]

And as far as picking a wastegate, it all depends on your tune. Now that you have a tune you can play around with wastegate settings and choose one that is optimal for it. This is a discussion you should have with the tuner.

You could play around with preload trying to get it to stay shut a little longer or try a heavier spring. Borg Warner K04’s usually come with a 6 pound spring but my JHM turbo has a 10 pound wastegate spring. They chose this to get the fastest spool apparently.

I think you should definitely rule out a boost leak but looking at your logs, it doesn’t look like you have one unless the leak is directly at the MAP sensor bung. That would still register a good amount of boost but could still be leaking in theory.

Unless you have an intercooler with a MAP bung made specifically for the Audi sized MAP sensor, it’s entirely possible to have a leak at the sensor.

My JHM piping leaked from the MAP sensor bung on 2 separate pipes and I had to fix it myself as it appears to be a flaw in their design.

[EvolutionArmory]

In other news I've now compared the BUL head gasket with the BHZ and they are in fact identical. Most likely if one wanted to do a hybrid engine one could just mix any EA113 head and block.
So remains to see if pistons are different making up for a documented higher compression ratio. Otherwise its just the stock ECU tune difference and the manufacturing plant.


https://i.imgur.com/sJQpEGL.jpg

Yes, the compression drop is due to the shape of the S3/Golf R pistons.

The gain in HP in the BUL motor is widely believed to be all through tuning

[AudiB720TS]

Some progress over here

Parking aid
After half a year I finally got my parking aid working. I pulled the panels in the trunk to find the wire to the rear buzzer disconnected[facepalm]
Must have gotten pulled out somehow with the panel back when I was investigating a leak of washer fluid. Anyways, I'm happy it's now fixed. Real happy.

S3 engine bottom end disassembly
Made a tool to counter hold the sprocket on the crank, but it twisted and broke when trying to undo the center bolt [=(]
Need to build something from thicker metal or find a specialty tool. Might ask my mechanic if he can do it. That thing is stuck.
I left the bolt alone and removed the oil pan instead. Pump and pickup looks really good from first impressions. I wonder if it/they were replaced recently.
Wish I had the service history of the car...

Anyways, need to find a DIY on pump removal and then I'm gonna examine this thing. Maybe do a balance shaft delete... Not sure yet...

Pump and pickup:
https://i.imgur.com/Yi1jA40.jpg?1

S3 head disassembly
I gave up removing the injectors with tools I had and bought a dedicated set. This included a slide hammer and some other bits and pieces.
This still took a lot of work (mostly because the slide hammer was really short) but eventually I got the remaining two injectors out.
I'm gonna send these for testing before selling them just to make sure they are OK after all the beating I've put on them so I can sell them feeling good about myself.

Tools and removed injectors:
https://i.imgur.com/HxZ83is.jpg

[PrestonYoungsly]

If his tuning session goes well, this turbo can be ordered from Apikol in the US for about 1800 shipped from Germany depending on the exchange rate that day. Then you’d have to pay shipping from Apikol.

sorry to quote a dated post, but out of curiosity, do I just call apikol direct to inquire about this? I looked on their site and didn't see anything in relation

[EvolutionArmory]

Call them.

[AudiB720TS]

Smoke testing using the Autool SDT-202:

https://youtu.be/9c5Anl_zpTo

[EvolutionArmory]

Throw that catch can right on eBay or the forums for sale. Problem solved.

[AudiB720TS]

Throw that catch can right on eBay or the forums for sale. Problem solved.

Yeah,
I think I can just tighten the nut, but I'm inclined to revert to stock just to have a better chance at passing inspection in a few weeks.

[AudiB720TS]

Man! I converted back to stock PCV last night and this morning I took the car out to test it.

It felt more responsive (might be placebo so will log later), and I was pushing the car "a bit".

Sirens! Police came after me and pulled me over [=(] Was a bit worried because I have customer meeting in the morning. They said I drove like a crazy person on drugs (hahaha). Replied I was just testing the PCV [:/]
I then went into explaining what a PCV was, between handing over my license and blowing in the alcohol tester [:|]

So I asked: "did you get my speed?"
And the officer replied: "no, we couldn't get a reading".

So they let me off after some lecturing. Gonna change shirt now and head for the customer.

[EvolutionArmory]

With that leak fixed now log 003, 115 and 119 to see if peak MAF is up and see if actual boost meets requested now.

250 peak for the MAF seems really low for a turbo like this.

[AudiB720TS]

With that leak fixed now log 003, 115 and 119 to see if peak MAF is up and see if actual boost meets requested now.

250 peak for the MAF seems really low for a turbo like this.

Yeah,
Just a bit apprehensive about going racing on the streets at the moment. Have to at least go where I don't meeting the same two police officers. I'll figure it out.

In terms of my little side project I now have the BHZ head disassembled. It's taken a lot of special tools, blood and sweat.
Starting to really dislike Audi/VAG over this engine (as if I didnt having to do the carb clean, and then putting up with oil burning)...

I removed the first valve spring, but my rather large compressor was not large enough so in doing so I dinged the area where the cam meets the head.
Panicked a bit thinking the head was done for and decided to take it to a shop to get their opinion. The guy there (who decked the heads on my prev. car), said it was "fine".
I then commissioned him to remove the remaining valves for me. 20$ later the head is cleaned and have the valves, seals etc. removed. An awesome deal I think.

Cleaned (bit of gasket left) S3 BHZ head:
https://i.imgur.com/vzEZkuj.jpg

[EvolutionArmory]

You could always do logs in 2nd gear instead of 3rd. The top of 2nd is only like 50-60 MPH?

[AudiB720TS]

You could always do logs in 2nd gear instead of 3rd. The top of 2nd is only like 50-60 MPH?

I'll do in 3rd or 4th. Will figure it out.

I smoke tested the car again yesterday with stock PCV and it leaked even more. So before I do any runs I'm going to buy a new PCV and all new PCV hoses/pipes. Contemplating buying a new valve cover while I'm at it ;)

Yesterday I got the rods and pistons out of the S3 engine. Condition looks good I think, but they are not very confidence inspiring. I'm like: if these are thicker than stock A4 rods then just how thin are my stock rods!?
I had also sent my S3 injectors for testing and NONE were good to use [=(] I asked the shop to just throw them away. The return postage I had sent in cash was donated to a charity the mechanic was attending. Good stuff.
I knew it would be a gamble to buy that engine and it was a bit impulsive at that. For sure I am not gonna break even on it. But its always good to have a spare to build from.

Next is to have a shop go over the bores. If it needs drilling to 83 mm I will be at a decision gate for sure about keeping or just abandoning ship.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yeah, the S3 rods are only a little beefier in a couple key places and only have a little more mass. There’s a thread kicking around somewhere with the 2 rods side by side and the weight difference too.

Honestly I never thought swapping in a set of Golf R/S3 internals was a good idea. You’re better off going with forged rods if you’re going through the trouble of a build anyway. Maybe use the pistons but even that might not be the best idea since with aftermarket pistons you have more control over the compression ratio you want to use. Maybe the Golf R/S3 pistons will work great or maybe you’d be better off with something closer to but still less than stock compression. Personally, I’d pick something closer to stock to take advantage of more low end power through the engines natural compression. Something in between S3 and stock compression might be the best of both. The lower compression S3 pistons are going to take some of your low end and spool time away and you’ll gain some high end efficiency. The stock pistons will have more low end and get you faster spool. You should probably run the highest compression piston you can but still have proper timing and knock control.

[AudiB720TS]

A bit OT, but this is crazy: CN workers with no gloves, no glasses no nothing working hot steel and heavy machinery to forge some rods.
Fascinating. I wonder how many ppl got injured or even died at that factory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ-CVhRfZ9k

[AudiB720TS]

Some pictures of the S3 rods and pistons removed and cleaned up a bit.


Audi S3 8p [BHZ] rods and pistons:
https://i.imgur.com/iBQ4Bz2.jpg

Audi S3 8p [BHZ] rods and pistons #2:
https://i.imgur.com/5QmX4bR.jpg

[Clockwise33]

Yeah, the S3 rods are only a little beefier in a couple key places and only have a little more mass. There’s a thread kicking around somewhere with the 2 rods side by side and the weight difference too.

Honestly I never thought swapping in a set of Golf R/S3 internals was a good idea. You’re better off going with forged rods if you’re going through the trouble of a build anyway. Maybe use the pistons but even that might not be the best idea since with aftermarket pistons you have more control over the compression ratio you want to use. Maybe the Golf R/S3 pistons will work great or maybe you’d be better off with something closer to but still less than stock compression. Personally, I’d pick something closer to stock to take advantage of more low end power through the engines natural compression. Something in between S3 and stock compression might be the best of both. The lower compression S3 pistons are going to take some of your low end and spool time away and you’ll gain some high end efficiency. The stock pistons will have more low end and get you faster spool. You should probably run the highest compression piston you can but still have proper timing and knock control.

That was my thread from a couple months ago comparing the CDL rods to BPY rods. The measured differences were:

Golf R rod weight w/ bolts: 615.4g
GTI rod weight w/ bolts 547.7g

Golf R rod dimensions at thinnest point: 14.41mm x 21.30mm
GTI rod dimensions at thinnest point: 12.07mm x 18.15mm

So the Golf R rods are 12.4% heavier, 17.5% wider web, 19.4% wider flange relative to the GTI rods.

https://i.imgur.com/lZX4si8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1QqqZQf.jpg

I decided to go CDL rods/pistons over forged h-beams/stock pistons for a few reasons:

- I wanted to experiment with dropping the CR to 9.8:1. Early returns on this change are positive. My timing pull went from about -5 to 0 with almost no change to boost threshold or off-boost performance. I also looked at other high hp/l turbo DI engines and it seemed 10.5:1 is higher than pretty much all of them. (EA888 Gen 3: 9.6:1; new Civic Type R 9.8:1)
- I prefer OEM QA/QC over Chinese aftermarket. I've found more accounts of 1.8t's and FSI's breaking IE, Brute and DM forged h-beams than I've found broken stock CDL internals.
- Larger wrist pin w/ no rifle drilling. Likely a big contributor to the increased strength.
- OEM CDL rod bearings are moly-graphite coated.
- OEM CDL piston top compression ring is internal beveled vs standard FSI tapered face. Apparently the internal bevel design is better for high cylinder pressure.
- This swap was done on a FWD GTI so I never intend on passing 400hp due to traction limits. I've seen estimates from UK and European forums that the stock CDL is reliable to about 450-500bhp. The only account of a failure I could find was a SEAT Cupra making over 500whp. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5350734-Are-S3-Factory-K04-engine-rods-stronger

[AudiB720TS]

- OEM CDL rod bearings are moly-graphite coated.

You don't happen to have part numbers? I've put my rod/pistion set on eBay, but I may still keep them.
Deciding...



- OEM CDL piston top compression ring is internal beveled vs standard FSI tapered face. Apparently the internal bevel design is better for high cylinder pressure.

Part numbers please if you have them?



- This swap was done on a FWD GTI so I never intend on passing 400hp due to traction limits. I've seen estimates from UK and European forums that the stock CDL is reliable to about 450-500bhp. The only account of a failure I could find was a SEAT Cupra making over 500whp. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5350734-Are-S3-Factory-K04-engine-rods-stronger

I've seen R-Tech estimate its good for 450-550hp, but I have also seen them cap tunes on stock bottom end for S3/Golf R at low 400's.

[Clockwise33]

You don't happen to have part numbers? I've put my rod/pistion set on eBay, but I may still keep them.
Deciding...



Part numbers please if you have them?



I've seen R-Tech estimate its good for 450-550hp, but I have also seen them cap tunes on stock bottom end for S3/Golf R at low 400's.

The bearings are 06D105701LGLB.

The rings I bought from Mahle at a fraction of the price of OEM VAG. The Mahle part number is 028-14-N0. I got them here: https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/06J198151B.htm?pn=06J-198-151-B-M62

[AudiB720TS]

Thanks

[AudiB720TS]

I have picked up a "RFD" kit and testing it on the S3 intake manifold. May or may not do this on my car, but I wanted to at least explore it a bit.
This is the plastic kit as seen. Plastic is a good fit and seems to be of the same type as the manifold itself. Would probably add some epoxy for good measure.


Runner Flap Delete:
https://i.imgur.com/zmoksTx.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

Today I replaced the entire PCV system, including hoses.
Old hoses broke in parts during removal. Saw the same thing on the S3 engine, but on that engine the hoses just turned to dust when touching them.
If you have a higher mileage car, replace them hoses! The longer hose was a bit of a bitch to install: I had to losen the HPFP a bit to pass it through.

New PCV:
https://i.imgur.com/qfwMtTm.jpg

[AudiB720TS]

On Monday car goes on the dyno again. If numbers are significantly down then I'll have the tuner troubleshoot the car $$$$$


I am also booked for annual inspection late September which will be the first inspection with FMIC, IC piping and the CTS HFC.
To make things harder for them I have bought a new set of under-body splash shields (currently none on the car). Will install those next week.

Going to hold off on any upgrades until I know the car can pass inspection or not.

[AudiB720TS]

Going to hold off on any upgrades until I know the car can pass inspection or not.

I take that back. Just ordered a Dragy GPS based performance meter and app. Couldn't find a drag strip close enough so I'll go with this for now.

[EvolutionArmory]

Draggy seems to have some good reviews and quite a few people have backed it up and come close with actual 1/4 mile data. Let us know what you do with it. Under 13 and over 110 would be a good gauge to see if your car is really making 300 WHP or more.

A 400 CHP car that weighs 3600 pounds with you in it should have a trap speed over 110 and do it in under 13 seconds.

Take your car to get weighed with you in it and see what it says. You can calculate power based on ET and weight or trap speed and weight.

[AudiB720TS]

Here's where we are at currently. Car feels absolutely fine. No apparent issues, no codes.
It's just a lower number than before. Will be getting the old dyno sheet as well via email later.
Going to focus on passing vehicle inspection now and then possibly move on my S3 engine build.

https://i.imgur.com/1pprtCM.jpg?1

[AudiB720TS]

Well feels like my luck has ran out in some sense.
Got pulled over by the police again AND this time they had a good reading with laser and like a whole department swarming on me (I asked if it was the academy out for training) [=(]
Was clocked doing about 85 mph on a 70 mph stretch of road. Not fast enough to lose my license, but enough to have to throw 300$ out the window.

Mind you I've driven too fast every day for the last 20+ years and this is my first speeding ticket. I guess if I look at it that way it's kind of cheap really.
None the less I've cancelled my Amazon order for that Dragy unit now. Don't need any more trouble for a while let's say.

[i3oricua]

Well feels like my luck has ran out in some sense.
Got pulled over by the police again AND this time they had a good reading with laser and like a whole department swarming on me (I asked if it was the academy out for training) [=(]
Was clocked doing about 85 mph on a 70 mph stretch of road. Not fast enough to lose my license, but enough to have to throw 300$ out the window.

Mind you I've driven too fast every day for the last 20+ years and this is my first speeding ticket. I guess if I look at it that way it's kind of cheap really.
None the less I've cancelled my Amazon order for that Dragy unit now. Don't need any more trouble for a while let's say.

Sucks man. Hope you get to enjoy it regardless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvolutionArmory]

I get pulled over a lot and don’t really get speeding tickets. I go through this whole procedure with where my hands are so they can see, where my keys are out of the ignition on the dash, all lights on in the car, hazard lights on, all windows open so they can see in. It puts them at ease. And then I always ask them if I can do what they asked before I do it. Like “My registration is in my glove box. Can I get it now?” or “My license is in my wallet, can I get it now?”

It blows their minds. They usually ask me why I’m doing all that and I tell them flat out that I know a routine traffic stop is a very dangerous thing and their safety is important to me.

[AudiB720TS]

Driving this thing to the engine builder is what got me a ticket the other week.
It's now a very expensive little refurb [headbang]. Anyways, the block has been cleaned and painted.
According to my guy there, the bores were fine to just hone. No need to drill to 83mm.

This means I will most likely reuse stock rods and pistons.

S3 [BHZ] engine block, cleaned, painted and honed:
https://i.imgur.com/MLdIyMJ.jpg?1

[i3oricua]

Driving this thing to the engine builder is what got me a ticket the other week.
It's now a very expensive little refurb [headbang]. Anyways, the block has been cleaned and painted.
According to my guy there, the bores were fine to just hone. No need to drill to 83mm.

This means I will most likely reuse stock rods and pistons.

S3 [BHZ] engine block, cleaned, painted and honed:
https://i.imgur.com/MLdIyMJ.jpg?1

I think that you’re going through a lot of work to reuse stock pistons and rods. I know the S3s are thicker/larger but the instant torque that K04 will put out will likely snap those rods before it’ll snap some aftermarket rods. Just my two cents a built engine is a much safer play than the S3 internals to get the most of your turbo. I could be wrong and likely am but I wouldn’t risk it with all the work you’re putting in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvolutionArmory]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. 😀

Use the pistons, get forged rods for them. Some standard H beam rods. If you’re worried about strength, just don’t get rifle drilled. You won’t need them when only revving to 7K.

Look at his torque curve. He’s making crazy torque for days to risk using cast rods.

[Charles.waite]

I think that you’re going through a lot of work to reuse stock pistons and rods. I know the S3s are thicker/larger but the instant torque that K04 will put out will likely snap those rods before it’ll snap some aftermarket rods. Just my two cents a built engine is a much safer play than the S3 internals to get the most of your turbo. I could be wrong and likely am but I wouldn’t risk it with all the work you’re putting in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The s3 engines were built for the k04 though...

[i3oricua]

The s3 engines were built for the k04 though...

You’re not wrong but it just seems so risky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Charles.waite]

Maybe. Maybe not. Golf R guys here in the us can punch above 300awhp on a stock engine though.

[EvolutionArmory]

Maybe. Maybe not. Golf R guys here in the us can punch above 300awhp on a stock engine though.

His turbo isn’t exactly a K04 though. Look at what the guys running LO400’s on Golf R’s are doing. Don’t look at what stage 2 Golf R’s are doing.

No K04 dyno graph I have ever seen makes that much torque for that long. Mine hits 300 foot pounds and is at 250 at 5500. His makes 300 for a looooooonnnnng time 🤣🤣

[EvolutionArmory]

If his dyno graph looked like mine, stock S3 internals would be more than enough. Here’s my K04 dyno. See how mine tapers down to 250 pretty smoothly? His stays higher for much longer.

142106


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Charles.waite]

Oh yea I forgot what turbo he was running.

[AudiB720TS]

Well, there are several things to this. I can't get aftermarket rods for the S3 pistons (AFAIK) given they have the larger wrist pin. So to get forged rods I would look at pistons + rods which should land around 1500$.
The same amount of money would pretty much pay for all the accessories and the completion of this engine if stock rods were to be reused. And if the Loba turbo is maxed out at 400 CHP, then why build the bottom for 500+?

BTW, here is a dyno of a stock S3 bottom with the TTE420 turbo. That's 442 hp on stock block. R-tech estimates the block can take around 500 on those tiny rods.

https://i.imgur.com/frRXJlq.jpg

[EvolutionArmory]

Fast torque onset and timing kills rods. Not really some peak horsepower number like 400 VS 500. Look at early K04 kits and tunes. People were bending rods when K04 kits came out for this car and were making less power than your turbo is capable of. Your peak torque happens a lot sooner on your car than on that S3 dyno you just posted. Your torque spike is much more sharp so that car would be less likely to bend a rod than yours would even though it’s making more power than you because the motor is already spinning pretty fast when it’s making peak torque. Your car is making MORE torque than that car and a lot sooner.

Maybe you’ll be fine with it in a daily driver. It’s gotta be stronger than what you have now. I just wouldn’t go through the trouble of building a motor with stock S3 internals and it looks like I’m not alone in thinking that. It’s just our opinion though.

[Charles.waite]

The loba likely spools the same as that TTE which according to that dyno is around 35-3800 when full torque hits so I really don’t know why you’re equating the clipped hybrid with a stock k04. You literally said two posts ago that they’re totally different in response to me. I’d wager the loba is MUCH more similar to the TTE than the standard k04.

I think stock s3 parts will be absolutely fine. I also mulled over the stock s3/R pistons and rods, only to find the same issue, nobody makes drop-in rods for the engine, so you’re stuck getting pistons and rods. I chose to stick with stock BWT pistons and IE drop in rods, since the stock pistons are generally considered fine up to 400chp. And wasn’t interested in dropping another $700 for Mahle pistons...

[EvolutionArmory]

Dude, his data doesn’t lie. He’s making full torque at 3K and more of it while the TTE is making full torque at almost 4K. He’s making MORE torque and sooner so how does the LO400 spool similar to a TTE 420? It doesn’t. The LO400 spools a few hundred RPM’s sooner which is pretty substantial.


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[Charles.waite]

He posted a dyno?

Edit: never mind, I’m a dumbo.

[Charles.waite]

Here's where we are at currently. Car feels absolutely fine. No apparent issues, no codes.
It's just a lower number than before. Will be getting the old dyno sheet as well via email later.
Going to focus on passing vehicle inspection now and then possibly move on my S3 engine build.

https://i.imgur.com/1pprtCM.jpg?1

Quoting this for my self.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yeah dude he’s making 450 NM (332 ft lb) at the flywheel before 3K and then makes more for a while. It’s a torque monster. Look at when it starts to taper. I wouldn’t use cast rods with that torque curve but that’s just me.

[Charles.waite]

Yea. Maybe the tuner can dial back the boost request beneath 3500 a tad to dampen the torque.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yea. Maybe the tuner can dial back the boost request beneath 3500 a tad to dampen the torque.

The whole point of a built motor is so you don’t have to dial things back and push it harder. 😀

Well it’s too late now and he’s building it so I hope it works out. Should be fine for a daily driver and its stronger than what he has now. I just wouldn’t take it to the track if it were mine.

[EvolutionArmory]

He’s going to lose low end with those lower compression pistons anyway. Bye bye torque monster so my point is probably not going to be an issue anymore now that I think of it more.

[Charles.waite]

The whole point of a built motor is so you don’t have to dial things back and push it harder. [emoji3]

Well it’s too late now and he’s building it so I hope it works out. Should be fine for a daily driver and its stronger than what he has now. I just wouldn’t take it to the track if it were mine.

I mean yea sorta. But you can build a motor and not want to go balls to the wall, it doesn’t always have to be all (the boost) or nothing.

Besides it’s not really a motor build, it’s a stock S3 long block with a slightly bigger k04. Plenty of stock a4 longblocks pushing k04s without going kaboom (at least not since the old days circa 2011 when APRs K04 time was windowing blocks). This has forged pistons and stronger forged rods, I don’t get why you’re being so negative of the “build”.

Scandinavian countries tend to have crazy inspection regulations too that make super modified engines really difficult to get registered. I know Bische (of the turbo’d 3.6 VR6 in his b6 fame) had to keep the spare motor, ECU, and harness just to get the car inspected, and he had to swap it in every year or every other. Seemed a bit absurd tbh.

[AudiB720TS]

I'm enjoying the discussion. Thanks.

I'm not gonna dial back any torque, I want more of it if there's more to find.

Apart from (1) cost and thinking the S3 rods (2) will suffice, another (3) aspect is oil consumption: I want to solve that problem. This is really the only area where I'm not convinced I'm choosing a good route. I think if the oil burning issue is solved then emissions testing with an HFC will work.

From what I read transverse engines have/had less of an oil burning issue (supposedly Audi used slightly oval pistons in longitudinal engines). That could be bs and maybe the S3 will burn like the A4 after a short while(?)
I did order the Mahle rings for it so should be as good as it might get, for starters.

In no hurry here (although I tend to rush things) so could sit back and still sell of that rod and piston combo (with rings and bolts and bearings now...) and at least have them fund forged K1 rods.


BUT FIRST: yearly inspection! Thursday morning at 08:00! I plan to be up at 05:00 and run the car so that the HFC is flaming hot. Expecting two issues: they will fail me on the FMIC and emissions values will be too high.

[EvolutionArmory]

Charles, If you think I’m being negative towards the build, that couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t want him to waste his time and money if a used cast rod decides to leave the block.

OP, Your torque curve is nasty and since it’s a street driven car I don’t see why you would want to mess with that with lower compression and still use cast rods. That’s my biggest point I guess. And I’m really enjoying talking about your build and it has made me really consider the LO400L as my next turbo if/when my K04 decides to die. I’m already planning ahead to get my fueling ready for an upgrade and your build and data shows that the LO400 might be exactly what I want. Low end for days. 🤣🤣 And tuning will be easy as my current tuner already offers a file for it. I’m a turbo, injectors, tune upgrade and fuel pump away from being able to run it if I choose to. It may even run on S3 injectors so I’ll save there maybe.

You have a really cool build that is actually getting finished and runs like it’s suppose to which doesn’t happen often here. I’m in your corner😀 You had a plan and it actually worked (depending on the dyno used) 👍🏻👍🏻

[Charles.waite]

Finished and running builds are preeeetty rare around these parts.

[Clockwise33]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. 😀

Use the pistons, get forged rods for them. Some standard H beam rods. If you’re worried about strength, just don’t get rifle drilled. You won’t need them when only revving to 7K.

Look at his torque curve. He’s making crazy torque for days to risk using cast rods.

The dyno you're referencing is showing torque in nm. His peak wheel torque converted to ft-lbs is about 280 which is obviously well within the comfort zone of CDL rods (if not BPG). If R-tech in Sweden says the stock S3 block is good for 450-500hp/trq I'd be inclined to believe them, after all they have lots of CDL/CRZA motors running around Europe since about 2005. If you search European forums you'll find tons of examples of MK6Rs, Cupras, ED30s, ED35s, Pirelli GTI, Scirocco R, S3s and TTS's pushing close to 500hp on TTE, LOBA, EFR etc on the stock block.

With regards to forged H-beams and stock pistons, how confident are you that this combination can take significantly more hp/trq than 450-500? While the material of the H-beam is superior, they are less massive than CDL rods (575g vs 615g) and the H-beam design is not ideal for high torque. This is why IE offers the "Tuscon" I-beam for big power builds. This aversion to H-beams on high boost applications is present in other platforms as well. Tuners for Subarus, Evos, Hondas and more generally recommend I-beams (Manley Turbotuff) for roughly 500+hp boosted applications. I'm not implying that drop in H-beams are a bad solution for our platform, just that I don't buy the narrative that they are significantly stronger than CDL rods.

[Clockwise33]

He’s going to lose low end with those lower compression pistons anyway. Bye bye torque monster so my point is probably not going to be an issue anymore now that I think of it more.

I went from stock 10.5:1 pistons to CDL 9.8:1 pistons with no virtually loss of low end (on the butt dyno). If 9.8:1 pistons were so sluggish down low imagine how sluggish 2019 A4's would be (9.6:1).

[EvolutionArmory]

His peak torque is 350 foot pounds at the crank when converted from NM. More than enough to snap a rod with aggressive timing and early torque onset like his dyno shows. He’s making all of that at 3K and then holds it for 2K more. I would not want a cast rod in a car like that.

And European dyno numbers aren’t a great example for me. Notice how all of these European cars make all this crazy power but all of the best performance parts are made here.

European cars seem to make more power because their dynos aren’t held to the same standards as ours. They also give you an estimated bhp number based off of an unknown drivetrain loss percentage. Notice how most Europeans don’t post their WHP figures. 😀 You can see proof of this in this very thread. Our OP had to basically beg them to give him his actual wheel figures.

So forget our OP’s numbers and just look at his graph. 450 nm at 3k and then 475 for a loooong time. Like I said, I wouldn’t want cast rods on a torque monster like that. 🤣😀 Stock BPG pistons and drop in rods would be better. Stronger and low end won’t be affected by the compression drop. I just don’t see the use in using Golf R/S3 internals as an upgrade but that’s just my opinion.

[Clockwise33]

His peak torque is 350 foot pounds at the crank when converted from NM. More than enough to snap a rod with aggressive timing and early torque onset like his dyno shows. He’s making all of that at 3K and then holds it for 2K more. I would not want a cast rod in a car like that.

And European dyno numbers aren’t a great example for me. Notice how all of these European cars make all this crazy power but all of the best performance parts are made here.

European cars seem to make more power because their dynos aren’t held to the same standards as ours. They also give you an estimated bhp number based off of an unknown drivetrain loss percentage. Notice how most Europeans don’t post their WHP figures. 😀 You can see proof of this in this very thread. Our OP had to basically beg them to give him his actual wheel figures.

So forget our OP’s numbers and just look at his graph. 450 nm at 3k and then 475 for a loooong time. Like I said, I wouldn’t want cast rods on a torque monster like that. 🤣😀 Stock BPG pistons and drop in rods would be better. Stronger and low end won’t be affected by the compression drop. I just don’t see the use in using Golf R/S3 internals as an upgrade but that’s just my opinion.

I have to assume 350ftlbs crank is no where near the limit of CDL rods because off the shelf SII+ tunes for all of the K04 based cars is 400ftlbs crank so there are 10’s of thousands of them making that power worldwide.

Let’s say for arguments sake the consensus opinion of Euro and US tuners of 450hp/trq being very safe on CDL rods is true, how much more headroom do you gain from drop-ins and stock pistons?

[EvolutionArmory]

You guys keep comparing this turbo to a K04. It’s not. It’s a LO400 and it’s capable of even more torque than his tuner gave him.

[EvolutionArmory]

There’s Golf R’s making 350 WHP and 380 wheel torque with this turbo so there’s definitely room for him to make more power.. I wouldn’t want to run cast rods with those for sure. I wouldn’t run cast rods on any build. 😀

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70751

[Charles.waite]

https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/3155-stock-internals-on-golf-r-mk6/

Seems like the consensus is that 420hp at the crank is safe. So 330whp is relatively safe.

I’m aiming for around that with my stock BWT pistons and forged IE rods (H-beam rifle drilled). I know hp isn’t the determining factor, it’s when and how much torque the engine makes. I think that’s far less of an issue with forged rods. And also a reason I’m leaning towards a small gtx over a k04. A bit more linear and more top end, less worry about low rpm torque spikes.

I’m usually of the opinion that 1.75-2x stock horsepower is the safe limit for an engine. Plenty of guys running GTRS turbos on stock 1.8t engines, those are closing in on if not at 2x stock horsepower (170).

[Clockwise33]

There’s Golf R’s making 350 WHP and 380 wheel torque with this turbo so there’s definitely room for him to make more power.. I wouldn’t want to run cast rods with those for sure. I wouldn’t run cast rods on any build. 😀

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70751

No recent turbocharged engines are fitted with cast rods. Most OEMs have been using either powder-forging or drop-forging for FI engines for a long time. Best guess is that VAG used drop-forged 36MnVS4, which is mentioned in the EA888 Gen 1 SSP. Blurb from Mahle promo regarding 36MnVS4:

"High-strength and reduced-mass connecting rods made of forged steel are another element of lightweighting. The forging process results in a favorable fiber orientation. The new 36MnVS4 material provides a steel grade with a unique chemical composition. It has a fine-grained microstructure and its fatigue resistance is up to 30% greater than existing materials for fracture-split connecting rods."

https://www.autotechglobal.com/industry/trends/mahle-engineers-boost-extra-out-of-auto-engines

[Clockwise33]

https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/3155-stock-internals-on-golf-r-mk6/

Seems like the consensus is that 420hp at the crank is safe. So 330whp is relatively safe.

I’m aiming for around that with my stock BWT pistons and forged IE rods (H-beam rifle drilled). I know hp isn’t the determining factor, it’s when and how much torque the engine makes. I think that’s far less of an issue with forged rods. And also a reason I’m leaning towards a small gtx over a k04. A bit more linear and more top end, less worry about low rpm torque spikes.

I’m usually of the opinion that 1.75-2x stock horsepower is the safe limit for an engine. Plenty of guys running GTRS turbos on stock 1.8t engines, those are closing in on if not at 2x stock horsepower (170).

I agree that the K04-64 is tougher on the con rods than a larger frame turbo. This is another reason I have faith in the CDL rods. VAG designed them for the K04, and tuners are pushing them to almost 30psi on SII+ files and no one is blowing holes in blocks.

[EvolutionArmory]

No recent turbocharged engines are fitted with cast rods. Most OEMs have been using either powder-forging or drop-forging for FI engines for a long time. Best guess is that VAG used drop-forged 36MnVS4, which is mentioned in the EA888 Gen 1 SSP. Blurb from Mahle promo regarding 36MnVS4:

"High-strength and reduced-mass connecting rods made of forged steel are another element of lightweighting. The forging process results in a favorable fiber orientation. The new 36MnVS4 material provides a steel grade with a unique chemical composition. It has a fine-grained microstructure and its fatigue resistance is up to 30% greater than existing materials for fracture-split connecting rods."

https://www.autotechglobal.com/industry/trends/mahle-engineers-boost-extra-out-of-auto-engines

Cast is not a metal 🤣🤣 It’s a process where liquid metal is poured into a mold to form a rough shape that is later machined into the finished part.

Do Golf R rods have casting lines? Yes. They are made by a casting process.

We don’t have EA888 engines so what does that have to do with what we’re talking about? And posting an article written in 2012, 8-10 years after VAG started designing the EA113 FSI engine doesn’t really tell us much about the rods being used in our cars.

[EvolutionArmory]

Zoom in on this pic of a Golf R rod and look at the big spine running along the side of it. That’s a seam from 2 halves of the mold forming the shape. Look at the color and texture. It’s dark and porous. If it was forged it wouldn’t be.

It’s a cast rod buddy.

142548

142549

You keep bringing up the wrong turbo and the wrong engine to make your points. We don’t have EA888 engines and our OP doesn’t have a K04.

What other people do with a different turbo and engine doesn’t matter. Look at the data in front of you about THIS car. His torque curve is legit nasty. Why chance a cast rod?



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Clockwise33]

Zoom in on this pic of a Golf R rod and look at the big spine running along the side of it. That’s a seam from 2 halves of the mold forming the shape. Look at the color and texture. It’s dark and porous. If it was forged it wouldn’t be.

It’s a cast rod buddy.

142548

142549

You keep bringing up the wrong turbo and the wrong engine to make your points. We don’t have EA888 engines and our OP doesn’t have a K04.

What other people do with a different turbo and engine doesn’t matter. Look at the data in front of you about THIS car. His torque curve is legit nasty. Why chance a cast rod?



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

As long as we're making materials science determinations based on internet pictures...

See "casting line" on the below 2JZ-GTE rods. Link to source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-2JZGTE-CONNECTING-RODS-Aristo-JZS161-Supra-JZA80-2JZ-GTE-13201-46040/183947441107?epid=657360353&hash=item2ad41f33d3:g:BbYAAOSwPdddEYuG

https://i.imgur.com/JODdaID.jpg

If the most legendarily tunable and bomb-proof turbo engine ever is using cast rods, sign me up for cast rods.

Those lines correspond to mold seams. Metal can be die-cast in a mold; metal can be forged in a mold by the addition of pressure.

I referenced the EA888 because VAG never published the metal composition of the EA113 rods and they appear extremely similar.

My K04 comment was replying to Charles.waite. Again, with regards to his dyno, his "nasty" torque curve is a full 60ftlbs less than an OTS MK6R tune and both hit 350 by about 3000rpm:

https://i.imgur.com/SF8o4Fh.png

[EvolutionArmory]

Again, you’re bringing up another motor, a Japanese one this time. And no, I wasn’t making a material determination based off of an Internet picture. I have no idea what type of alloy they use when they cast them. Just showing you that you were wrong when you said they aren’t cast. They are CLEARLY (by the pic 🤣🤣) made by a casting process.

Look, I don’t think either one of us is going to change the other’s mind so maybe we should just agree to disagree on whether or not cast VW rods are a good idea or not.

A true forged rod will have better strength through grain structure alignment and have way less chances to have voids than a cast one. You disagree. Fair enough.

[Clockwise33]

Again, you’re bringing up another motor, a Japanese one this time. And no, I wasn’t making a material determination based off of an Internet picture. I have no idea what type of alloy they use when they cast them. Just showing you that you were wrong when you said they aren’t cast. They are CLEARLY (by the pic 🤣🤣) made by a casting process.

Look, I don’t think either one of us is going to change the other’s mind so maybe we should just agree to disagree on whether or not cast VW rods are a good idea or not.

A true forged rod will have better strength through grain structure alignment and have way less chances to have voids than a cast one. You disagree. Fair enough.

No worries. You seem like you know your stuff and you're arguing in good faith. I can nerd out on this stuff all day. I'm an enthusiast and a materials engineer for a large governmental agency. I would love to get my hands on a bunch of these parts and do some destructive testing but time and money are limited by 3 babies in 3.5 years.

[Charles.waite]

You can forge things with molds too, that’s what he was referring to with that example. There’s more to it than just “cast is worse than forged”.

As you guys both said, it would be really interesting to do some destructive testing on them, for science.

[EvolutionArmory]

No worries. You seem like you know your stuff and you're arguing in good faith. I can nerd out on this stuff all day. I'm an enthusiast and a materials engineer for a large governmental agency. I would love to get my hands on a bunch of these parts and do some destructive testing but time and money are limited by 3 babies in 3.5 years.

👍🏻👍🏻

I think my biggest point about the whole thing is why wouldn’t a person just use forged aftermarket rods that are known to be stronger than cast if they’re going through the trouble of building a motor more so than our conversation about what the stock R rods can handle.

It just seems better to use aftermarket rods and be able to tailor your compression ratio to suit your individual compression needs with aftermarket pistons than to be stuck at 9.6:1 or 9.8:1, whatever the MK6 R pistons are (I forget).

I enjoyed our conversation BTW.

[Clockwise33]

My whole thing is I'm not sure you can say aftermarket H-beams are significantly stronger than CDL rods. Seeing how tuned MK6Rs make 400ftlbs crank at 3750rpm, would you be comfortable making more than that on drop in H-beams?

[EvolutionArmory]

More comfortable than on an OEM cast rod, yes. Reinforced or not.

The thing about this car in particular that people need to realize is that the OP asked his tuner to tune it with engine safety in mind while he’s still on the stock block. This turbo has way more room to grow.

I would never throw in used cast Golf R rods if going through the trouble of an engine build.

I’ve beaten that point to death now so I’ll bow out of that part of the discussion.

Just to clear the air and make it known, this build is my second favorite build in this section, just so nobody thinks I’m crapping on his build 🤣🤣

I want this car to me more awesomer.

[Charles.waite]

Hell, I’m here just because this build stands the greatest chance of being completed as any I’ve seen in a while.

Also the discussion/arguments since I very seriously mulled over buying some CRZA pistons and rods a while back and in the end just went with new OEM pistons and IE rods. So the topic at hand was relevant to my interests.

[EvolutionArmory]

Hell, I’m here just because this build stands the greatest chance of being completed as any I’ve seen in a while.

Also the discussion/arguments since I very seriously mulled over buying some CRZA pistons and rods a while back and in the end just went with new OEM pistons and IE rods. So the topic at hand was relevant to my interests.

I know, right? Not only did he have a goal that he most likely hit but he’s building an engine, and not because something broke because of something he shouldn’t have done. 🤣🤣🤣

This build and Seal’s build are my 2 favorite on here. Adam’s is next.

[EvolutionArmory]

My car should get an honorable mention for being one of the only JHM K04 cars that runs right.

[Charles.waite]

Haha so true.

I’d really love to do an EFR build but I don’t have the balls (or the pocketbook) for something quite that custom.

[EvolutionArmory]

Haha so true.

I’d really love to do an EFR build but I don’t have the balls (or the pocketbook) for something quite that custom.

Do a Loba LO400L like the OP. GIAC offers tuning for it so you don't even have to go custom and there are a few shops that will import Loba stuff. Emmanuelle design and Apikol are Loba dealers. They're about 1800 shipped from Germany.

[Charles.waite]

I was planning on going with United Motorsports, I’m sure they can whip up a good loba tune, they’ve got TONS of experience with hybrids and k04s and are very well regarded and a loca shop (AMD) are a dealer size I’ve got them for support.

But yea I’m honestly wavering on the BT path and starting to consider a hybrid. Especially considering the ease of installation compared to even a well sorted gtx kit.

[AudiB720TS]

This morning was annual vehicle inspection.
I took the car to a station I haven't been before. Straight of the bat I was getting a bad vibe: they were several minutes late on the car before me and they were going over it really meticulously like pulling at side panels inside the trunk and stuff. Never seen them do that before (hey, its not border control!). The inspector looked angry and unpleasant too. I was for a few moments weighing a decision to just leave (and lose the money paid) because if they put you down for a new registration inspection then your basically fucked. I decided to just take my chances.

Made a point to shake the guys hand when handing over my keys. He took the car outside to the emissions test first and he stayed there for quite a bit. You could hear my exhaust through the building and I thought they might fail me on noise levels alone. It took a while and I guess he was maybe struggling to get it to fall within the specifications for the 'fast idle' reading. He came back in with the car and put it on the lift for the remainder of tests.

https://i.imgur.com/0mNtHWt.jpg?1

After the longest ten minutes he came back to talk to me in the office. He said: "it passed" and then: "you've put some money into it, huh!?".

Man, what a relief!

CTS Turbo HFC > 034M HFC

[Charles.waite]

Haha. That’s awesome.

My state used to require an OBD2 readiness check for “emissions” but they just recently stopped even that due to pollution targets being met or something. Seems dubious to me but I won’t complain since there is literally nothing stopping me from doing anything to my car other than my own desire to not pollute too badly. I can imagine the nerves though. Glad it passed!

[AudiB720TS]

Oh by the way: insurance company ruled in my favor about that collision earlier in the summer. Looking forward to get the front bumper resprayed ;)
Maybe my streak of bad luck is over for now!

[i3oricua]

This morning was annual vehicle inspection.
I took the car to a station I haven't been before. Straight of the bat I was getting a bad vibe: they were several minutes late on the car before me and they were going over it really meticulously like pulling at side panels inside the trunk and stuff. Never seen them do that before (hey, its not border control!). The inspector looked angry and unpleasant too. I was for a few moments weighing a decision to just leave (and lose the money paid) because if they put you down for a new registration inspection then your basically fucked. I decided to just take my chances.

Made a point to shake the guys hand when handing over my keys. He took the car outside to the emissions test first and he stayed there for quite a bit. You could hear my exhaust through the building and I thought they might fail me on noise levels alone. It took a while and I guess he was maybe struggling to get it to fall within the specifications for the 'fast idle' reading. He came back in with the car and put it on the lift for the remainder of tests.

https://i.imgur.com/0mNtHWt.jpg?1

After the longest ten minutes he came back to talk to me in the office. He said: "it passed" and then: "you've put some money into it, huh!?".

Man, what a relief!

CTS Turbo HFC > 034M HFC

Glad to see you passed. I’m overdue on my MOT, England’s annual car inspection which is pretty similar to what you do there. I don’t want to take it in yet because they have to let the car idle and I don’t want it idling since I just got it back on the road. So I’m taking my chances on the road breaking it in right now since I don’t have a current MOT.

Charles, I had no problems with the install of my Pag Parts EFR kit when I was stock block. My problems started when I started tearing deep into the engine. Would a K04 kit be easier? Very likely since your just swapping most of the parts over and there’s no cutting of anything involved that I’m aware of but the EFR or any other kit is not very far from that. If you look back through my thread I literally took the K03 out and dropped in the EFR. Tuning is easier or at least more abundant for the K04 as well but I don’t necessarily always go for easy.

@AudiB720TS, glad to see everything going so well. Hope to see keep climbing up in a positive way for your build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvolutionArmory]

In the grand scheme of Audizine builds, you’ve had great luck so far, comparatively speaking. 👍🏻👍🏻

I’m in a similar situation with some bodywork. I’m hoping my insurance can recover my deductible from the other person’s insurance. That will pay for my Pag Parts fuel pump or a PM4 controller. 😀

And your car is now my favorite build on here. I didn’t know it was a black Avant.

[AudiB720TS]

In the grand scheme of Audizine builds, you’ve had great luck so far, comparatively speaking. 👍🏻👍🏻

I’m in a similar situation with some bodywork. I’m hoping my insurance can recover my deductible from the other person’s insurance. That will pay for my Pag Parts fuel pump or a PM4 controller. 😀

And your car is now my favorite build on here. I didn’t know it was a black Avant.

LOL, thanks.

About fueling: have you considered doing that 5mm drillout of the brass inlet for starters? Hell, I can mail you a spare fitting if you want to give it a go.

[EvolutionArmory]

I have a banjo fitting, not the barbed. My inlet should be a little bigger already.

At least that’s what I read from the owner of HPFPupgrade.com. I never verified it for myself.

[Charles.waite]

In the grand scheme of Audizine builds, you’ve had great luck so far, comparatively speaking. [emoji1303][emoji1303]

I’m in a similar situation with some bodywork. I’m hoping my insurance can recover my deductible from the other person’s insurance. That will pay for my Pag Parts fuel pump or a PM4 controller. [emoji3]

And your car is now my favorite build on here. I didn’t know it was a black Avant.

Black Avants are the best avants...[emoji16]

But you should be able to get your deductible back, mine did when I got rear ended, it just took a couple months because the other driver was uninsured and they had to go to some arbitration/recovery process with him I think. Either way you *should* get it back if you’re not at fault.

[Charles.waite]

Glad to see you passed. I’m overdue on my MOT, England’s annual car inspection which is pretty similar to what you do there. I don’t want to take it in yet because they have to let the car idle and I don’t want it idling since I just got it back on the road. So I’m taking my chances on the road breaking it in right now since I don’t have a current MOT.

Charles, I had no problems with the install of my Pag Parts EFR kit when I was stock block. My problems started when I started tearing deep into the engine. Would a K04 kit be easier? Very likely since your just swapping most of the parts over and there’s no cutting of anything involved that I’m aware of but the EFR or any other kit is not very far from that. If you look back through my thread I literally took the K03 out and dropped in the EFR. Tuning is easier or at least more abundant for the K04 as well but I don’t necessarily always go for easy.

@AudiB720TS, glad to see everything going so well. Hope to see keep climbing up in a positive way for your build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh yea I keep forgetting about PPT. I’ll have to talk with my shop and tuner about my goals/budget and what they recommend as well, just to weigh my options based on their experience as well. I don’t want to pick a turbo they’ve never tuned for, I just don’t have the time to help troubleshoot and run extensive logs (not to mention I live in Seattle Metro so it’s heavily populated around me, with plenty of cops, and almost nowhere to do a proper 3rd gear pull...)