The official 4.0T charge cooler pump thread

[Dasquade]

But wait...are you sure you got your wires/pin correct? Doesnt srm not doing the same, not using the signal wire and i'm sure they tested if it runs 100%...

[PhunkFX]

Makes sense. You cut the power wire. How's the pump gonna run without power [:)]

Right so what does each wire do?

Red/White Stripe = ?
Red =
Brown = ?

If red/white isn't signal... then I'm sure it isn't the brown wire! Why would red be signal and red/white be power? So this is where I'm confused and would like to know for sure... because it could be something weird.

R

[ericw.]

Waiting on someone to sell me a wire harness. Anyone have tabs on these so I don't have to fake like i know anything about electrical? lol

So Merc Racing has been backordered for a while and I was curious if anyone had leads on a heat exchanger that is silver/raw metal? Call me a ricer if you want but I kind of dig the modified look of the gray behind the grille.

[bhamcarnut]

I’m back from Barrett-Jackson and Have been working on the harnesses. Will have 5 more ready this weekend! (Non-switched). Been hard to keep up with everyone. Need to open a sweat shop. Hahahahaha


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[PhunkFX]

Waiting on someone to sell me a wire harness. Anyone have tabs on these so I don't have to fake like i know anything about electrical? lol

So Merc Racing has been backordered for a while and I was curious if anyone had leads on a heat exchanger that is silver/raw metal? Call me a ricer if you want but I kind of dig the modified look of the gray behind the grille.

034 just came out with a kit for B8/B8.5. Silver.

[ericw.]

034 just came out with a kit for B8/B8.5. Silver.

meh, I'll go with black before 034. lol

[s4nicetry]

meh, I'll go with black before 034. lol

What's wrong with 034?

[ericw.]

What's wrong with 034?Personal preference. When avoidable, I always choose someone else but there are a few things they do that no one else does... like street density control arm bushings. Or motor mounts on other platforms.

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[bhamcarnut]

I have sent PMs for the harness. I’m not shipping internationally as of now. Sorry guys. If you didn’t receive a PM let me know.

The switched version is on hold because the bolts for the plate mounting under the hood have been back ordered. Supposed they will be released on Feb 8th.

Thank you so much for all of your patience. I hate that the delay was sooooo long. I have a new supplier for the pump side adapter and hopefully that speeds things up if I need more.


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[GlacierS5]

Waiting on someone to sell me a wire harness. Anyone have tabs on these so I don't have to fake like i know anything about electrical? lol

So Merc Racing has been backordered for a while and I was curious if anyone had leads on a heat exchanger that is silver/raw metal? Call me a ricer if you want but I kind of dig the modified look of the gray behind the grille.I can sell you mine since I haven't had the time to install it (non-switch). If anything I'm planning on parting out and getting rid of her.

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[ericw.]

I can sell you mine since I haven't had the time to install it (non-switch). If anything I'm planning on parting out and getting rid of her.

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I just sent some money to someone for the wiring harness but drop me a PM if you have the heat exchanger or CWA100 pump that you're willing to part with.

[Dasquade]

So i assume it was a wire mistake from PhunkFX and the signal wire 'cut' does keep the pump at 100%?
But i was wondering, does anybody plan on installing something so we can monitor the pumps condition? I mean, i guess i will install a switch so i can at least log it and check if it ain't broken. But that is offcourse not that user friendly and by the time you checked pump could of been dead for awhile...
So i was wondering if there is any other way to check the pumps behavior?
I was thinking, maybe add a flow meter after the pump? I haven't opened the area yet but dought there is a lot of room down there altough most flow meters aren't that big but still. Sadely not many automotive/coolant flow meters, don't think i want to risk to install a simple water flow meter...
Anyone :) ?

[Dasquade]

Forgive me for the wild thinking, but i consider it a safety thingy...knowing if the pump still works if we not using the signal wire...
Sadely i couldn't find any flow meter/sensor that would do the trick. Most aren't up to the hot temps the coolant will reach.
SO....that got me thinking of an other alternative to know if pump is working. What about hooking up an amperage meter onto the power wires?
Afaik that would give me/users a reading if the pump is draining power, it would even give us a correct %/cycle the pump is in. If the pump is broken it shouldn't pull amerage afaik. Should be pretty easy to even use wiretaps and run a + - wire to the cockpit together with the signal wire for switch.
Anyway, just my out of the box thinking. Any input is welcome (guess we all want to mod but keep things safe and checkable).

[widebodyfx]

More toys, back logged on parts to install though. [:/]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/oc-rookie/Audi/CWA_100.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/oc-rookie/Audi/Forge_Heat_Exchanger_01.jpg

[bhamcarnut]

Sweet!!!!!!


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[widebodyfx]

Thanks again man! Want the switchable harness too. Was thinking the other day of low key ways to have control in the cabin. Foglight as a source for the modes? I still think running off the exhaust valves would be cool but that's all the way in the back of the car. I might be running some cabling to the back of the car for something else so might run some extra wires.

[bhamcarnut]

Thanks again man! Want the switchable harness too. Was thinking the other day of low key ways to have control in the cabin. Foglight as a source for the modes? I still think running off the exhaust valves would be cool but that's all the way in the back of the car. I might be running some cabling to the back of the car for something else so might run some extra wires.


Glad to help!!!!!!


If you are going to run the switch in the cabin, I can send you a harness with an extra 6’ of cable or so. (you would provide your own switch) The switched version is on hold because of a bolt for the mounting bracket in the engine bay. I have another member wanting the same thing. Let me know.


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[widebodyfx]

Let me ponder not in a rush for the extra function yet, are you lifting the signal to the pump so it goes full duty? Diode or something else to keep the car from soft coding or just leaving open?

[MadAboutCars]

Sorry, wrong thread.

[Dozer88]

Nice start OP! Subed

[MadMaxD]

Alright folks, I did the AMG pump (with bhams harness and my own switch, Merc racing HX and a custom intercooler reservoir that allowed me to divorce the system) and here’s what a discovered.

1. The pump is intelligent and actually can sense if there is air in the system. If it senses air in the system, it WILL NOT run full steam, regardless of what the car tells it to do. That’s just how these new pumps are. You cannot reverse flow/voltage.

2. You must vacuum bleed the system when you change parts. These systems can be self bleeding, but if there is air in the system, the pump will not run fast enough to force the air out.

3. With the 4.0s, you can only get the IATs down so far. I’m still trying to verify this, but it seems that the cold side piping post-intercooler holds so much heat that it is limiting how cold I can get the intercooler. After driving my car for an hour, everything can be hot under the hood but the intercooler will be ice cold. The AMG pump is definitely plenty. I am 99% sure the post intercooler piping is to blame, because if I am on the highway and lean on the gas, my IATs will DROP 5-7 degrees while maintaining the same speed.

All in all, doing the divorced setup and AMG pump with the big HX, it’s working amazing. If I park the car and leave it off, temps will jump 30-40 degrees, but once the car is back on it can drop the temps back to normal in 5-10 minutes max.

[Dasquade]

Alright folks, I did the AMG pump (with bhams harness and my own switch, Merc racing HX and a custom intercooler reservoir that allowed me to divorce the system) and here’s what a discovered.

1. The pump is intelligent and actually can sense if there is air in the system. If it senses air in the system, it WILL NOT run full steam, regardless of what the car tells it to do. That’s just how these new pumps are. You cannot reverse flow/voltage.

2. You must vacuum bleed the system when you change parts. These systems can be self bleeding, but if there is air in the system, the pump will not run fast enough to force the air out.

3. With the 4.0s, you can only get the IATs down so far. I’m still trying to verify this, but it seems that the cold side piping post-intercooler holds so much heat that it is limiting how cold I can get the intercooler. After driving my car for an hour, everything can be hot under the hood but the intercooler will be ice cold. The AMG pump is definitely plenty. I am 99% sure the post intercooler piping is to blame, because if I am on the highway and lean on the gas, my IATs will DROP 5-7 degrees while maintaining the same speed.

All in all, doing the divorced setup and AMG pump with the big HX, it’s working amazing. If I park the car and leave it off, temps will jump 30-40 degrees, but once the car is back on it can drop the temps back to normal in 5-10 minutes max.

Thanks for your feedback MadMaxD :), much appreciated!
1. how did you determine the pump wasn't running at full steam -> full power you mean i suppose?
I was planning to install an amperage meter between the pump so i could at all times see if pump was still working if i plan on not using the signal wire and i suppose if you correct if air in the system it will not show the full 10Amps power reading...

2. bummer, i don't have vacuum bleeder, but you know more where you connect it too by any change? I suppose such tool isn't that expensive...
I always tought the oem coolant tank was sort of the highest point and selfbleeding. In the selfstudy i noticed there should be a bleeding bolt somewhere upfront but never found it. My aftermarket cooler has a bleeder bolt. Still need to install my pump but was planning to fill the pump as much as possible during install and bleed the system once warm on the cooler bolt.

3. Kinda agree, even in current setup (aftermarket cooler + stock pump) my IAT's don't go crazy too much unless i enter the city and heatsoak enters. I had heatshielded my manifolds and hotside turbo's and downpipes. I sure that helps a lot with the actual engine bay heat and heating coolant lines....On the other hand, i do know my turbo's are getting hotter and maybe building more pressure/heat into the coolant lines.

I agree, well soon find out myself, the pump is only able to help as much and if really needed, SRM CSF charge cooler and/or water injection is the other big step to cool things down. I do hope running the pump always on 100% will help cool things down :).

[OlyS6]

Thanks for your feedback MadMaxD :), much appreciated!
1. how did you determine the pump wasn't running at full steam -> full power you mean i suppose?
I was planning to install an amperage meter between the pump so i could at all times see if pump was still working if i plan on not using the signal wire and i suppose if you correct if air in the system it will not show the full 10Amps power reading...

2. bummer, i don't have vacuum bleeder, but you know more where you connect it too by any change? I suppose such tool isn't that expensive...
I always tought the oem coolant tank was sort of the highest point and selfbleeding. In the selfstudy i noticed there should be a bleeding bolt somewhere upfront but never found it. My aftermarket cooler has a bleeder bolt. Still need to install my pump but was planning to fill the pump as much as possible during install and bleed the system once warm on the cooler bolt.

3. Kinda agree, even in current setup (aftermarket cooler + stock pump) my IAT's don't go crazy too much unless i enter the city and heatsoak enters. I had heatshielded my manifolds and hotside turbo's and downpipes. I sure that helps a lot with the actual engine bay heat and heating coolant lines....On the other hand, i do know my turbo's are getting hotter and maybe building more pressure/heat into the coolant lines.

I agree, well soon find out myself, the pump is only able to help as much and if really needed, SRM CSF charge cooler and/or water injection is the other big step to cool things down. I do hope running the pump always on 100% will help cool things down :).

The Uview Airlift works well if you have an air compressor to attach it to. It has a fitting that connects to the OEM coolant expansion tank, and creates a nice vacuum in the system to be able to fill it with coolant. You can find it on Amazon fairly easily.

[MadMaxD]

Thanks for your feedback MadMaxD :), much appreciated!
1. how did you determine the pump wasn't running at full steam -> full power you mean i suppose?
I was planning to install an amperage meter between the pump so i could at all times see if pump was still working if i plan on not using the signal wire and i suppose if you correct if air in the system it will not show the full 10Amps power reading...

2. bummer, i don't have vacuum bleeder, but you know more where you connect it too by any change? I suppose such tool isn't that expensive...
I always tought the oem coolant tank was sort of the highest point and selfbleeding. In the selfstudy i noticed there should be a bleeding bolt somewhere upfront but never found it. My aftermarket cooler has a bleeder bolt. Still need to install my pump but was planning to fill the pump as much as possible during install and bleed the system once warm on the cooler bolt.

3. Kinda agree, even in current setup (aftermarket cooler + stock pump) my IAT's don't go crazy too much unless i enter the city and heatsoak enters. I had heatshielded my manifolds and hotside turbo's and downpipes. I sure that helps a lot with the actual engine bay heat and heating coolant lines....On the other hand, i do know my turbo's are getting hotter and maybe building more pressure/heat into the coolant lines.

I agree, well soon find out myself, the pump is only able to help as much and if really needed, SRM CSF charge cooler and/or water injection is the other big step to cool things down. I do hope running the pump always on 100% will help cool things down :).

So I figured out the pump wasn’t running full steam in an unscientific method: as soon as a bled it fully and completely topped off the system, the pump went from slow sounding and barely bubbling my IC tank to, the best way to describe it, spooling up and seeing serious flow. It was funny, when I topped it off, I literally heard the pump speed up. I had the pump powered off a separate 12 volt battery, so it is definitely nothing to do with the car, the functionality is in the pump itself. I did not drain the intercooler system before bleeding, and some air did work itself out after once the pump was running full steam over the next few days.

The vacuum bleeder I hooked up to my IC tank. I suppose it could be attached to the overflow tank as well, though I’d recommend draining the coolant entirely before doing it. I got the tool on Amazon for about 80 bucks. I will be using it on future cars to bleed cooling systems because quite honestly it was a freaking breeze to use with great results.

I’d love to heatshield hot side and cold side, but I’m not going to bother right now, plus that could turn into a huge undertaking. I want to see what summer temps hold for my setup before doing any more cooling mods, but I’m sure they made a big difference. I’d love to do that CSF core as long as it’s reasonably priced. It looks very easy to change as well.

I might start a new thread with my set up, but here’s a couple pics for now. I also added a fresh air duct from the front bumper to the intakes.

Here’s a link to the video. It wouldn’t let me add as an attachment: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ES4H1eBTCGQwXWDp7

[Dasquade]

Thanks for the info and setup picture, nice! Curious for more info on your setup...

I also added a fresh air duct from the front bumper to the intakes.
I did that aswell and almost sure it helped my setup, knowing most of my aftermarket cooler/rs grill was blocking the air path. Not anymore :).
112138112139112140112141112142
Anyway, please make new topic if you can and sorry for the offtopic stuff guys :).

[MadMaxD]

Thanks for the info and setup picture, nice! Curious for more info on your setup...

I did that aswell and almost sure it helped my setup, knowing most of my aftermarket cooler/rs grill was blocking the air path. Not anymore :).

Anyway, please make new topic if you can and sorry for the offtopic stuff guys :).

Mine is a bit different. I ran it from the bottom of the bumper up with brake duct tubing.112163112164112165112166

[The Infiltrator]

Refurbished one, https://www.mboemonline.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-remanufactured-coolant-pump-000500048680

$338.xx

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Awesome, I think I'll order this and the connector from OP. I might order the APR system with it to help with the FL heat and to have this done as I add more power upgrades.

[mintytoo]

Check this one out, I think it's new from this guy, https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190328/81c6b700ff4ec07ec98b032be154e03b.jpg

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[The Infiltrator]

Check this one out, I think it's new from this guy, https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190328/81c6b700ff4ec07ec98b032be154e03b.jpg

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Whaaaaaat? Are there any reviews from this seller and do you have a link?

[mintytoo]

He seems like a good guy, no previous experience other than on the FB page, I always do PayPal goods transactions though (not friends and family)

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[The Infiltrator]

He seems like a good guy, no previous experience other than on the FB page, I always do PayPal goods transactions though (not friends and family)

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Yeah I do too. I just put in my request to join that group and check it out. Might order it tonight if I like what I see and get the APR cooler here soon. Going to grab this up when SRM releases it as well.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/815805-SRM-intercooler-charge-cooler

[15 Phantom S6]

seems as tho that one is a swap out replacement of the stock pump vs. installing it inline with the stock pump...

[mintytoo]

seems as tho that one is a swap out replacement of the stock pump vs. installing it inline with the stock pump...Yes, the cwa100 is supposed to be straight swap, with the OP's harness

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[tabio42]

Yeah I do too. I just put in my request to join that group and check it out. Might order it tonight if I like what I see and get the APR cooler here soon. Going to grab this up when SRM releases it as well.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/815805-SRM-intercooler-charge-cooler

Oh god I saw that the thumbnail was a Jabsco pump and just about had a heart attack thinking you were going to waste your money :)

That SRM intercooler should be legit though.


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[tabio42]

Check this one out, I think it's new from this guy, https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190328/81c6b700ff4ec07ec98b032be154e03b.jpg

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Hey I know that guy! [emoji51]


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[mintytoo]

Hey I know that guy! [emoji51]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLol, are you that guy?

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[tabio42]

Lol, are you that guy?

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Haha maybe....


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[s4nicetry]

Whaaaaaat? Are there any reviews from this seller and do you have a link?

Good seller, I picked this up from him a couple months ago, zero issues.

[tabio42]

Good seller, I picked this up from him a couple months ago, zero issues.

If I had a Like button on Tapatalk I would smash it.


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[mintytoo]

If I had a Like button on Tapatalk I would smash it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[emoji106], close enough

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[bajan01]

Good seller, I picked this up from him a couple months ago, zero issues.

Any before and after logs to compare?

[s4nicetry]

If I had a Like button on Tapatalk I would smash it.


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Cheers!


Any before and after logs to compare?

Sadly no, until recently here the weather has been horrible.

[MadS7]

Good seller, I picked this up from him a couple months ago, zero issues.

I second this...seller is great and ships quickly!!

[Bartlett]

Was there ever any real data of the CWA100 vs. CWA50, in terms of IATs, in normal operating mode (non-emergency, so not 100%)?

[Damir85]

Does anyone have the harness for the cwa100 and can ship to sweden ASAP

[bajan01]

Does anyone have the harness for the cwa100 and can ship to sweden ASAP

Tecomotive is based in the UK. They might be your best bet.

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html

[Dasquade]

Tecomotive is based in the UK. They might be your best bet.

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html
Indeed, and they have a 3 kits..
*without harnass
*without harnass but as lose parts
*with premade harnass.
I took the last option but you will still need to order the stock counter plug (forgot partnr...it is in topic somewhere).

[tabio42]

Does anyone have the harness for the cwa100 and can ship to sweden ASAP

I do. PM me.


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[Clipse3GT]

So what is the current consensus in this thread.
1. Just doing a heat exchanger upgrade to a Merc, Forge, APR, or AMS is sufficent with stock CWA50 pump at 100% switch mod is enough.

2. Heat exchanger upgrade and upgraded pump set to 100%.

3. Heat exchanger, upgrade pump, divorce the system, and 100% switch mod.


Also I know no body posted this. But you can get a housing that is like this that accepts a npt thermal switch. It will go on the feed side to the heat exchanger. Then you need a open on rise thermal switch. It will open the circuit at a set temperature. Let's say 160F. Meaning at 160F pump is at 100%. Otherwise under 160F switch is closed so the pump is regulated by the ECU. Working like stock. No need for manual switches and routing cables into cabin. Just a idea.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atm-2281?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-autometer&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4-XlBRDuARIsAK96p3AuN8BGFTLH3tLZeVLXFF7VBCQ0THvoa9ci sSc2i6nVGY1CNwUfePEaAj_mEALw_wcB

[tabio42]

So what is the current consensus in this thread.
1. Just doing a heat exchanger upgrade to a Merc, Forge, APR, or AMS is sufficent with stock CWA50 pump at 100% switch mod is enough.

2. Heat exchanger upgrade and upgraded pump set to 100%.

3. Heat exchanger, upgrade pump, divorce the system, and 100% switch mod.


Also I know no body posted this. But you can get a housing that is like this that accepts a npt thermal switch. It will go on the feed side to the heat exchanger. Then you need a open on rise thermal switch. It will open the circuit at a set temperature. Let's say 160F. Meaning at 160F pump is at 100%. Otherwise under 160F switch is closed so the pump is regulated by the ECU. Working like stock. No need for manual switches and routing cables into cabin. Just a idea.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atm-2281?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-autometer&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4-XlBRDuARIsAK96p3AuN8BGFTLH3tLZeVLXFF7VBCQ0THvoa9ci sSc2i6nVGY1CNwUfePEaAj_mEALw_wcB

If you could get a switch that turned on at 120 maybe.


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[Clipse3GT]

If you could get a switch that turned on at 120 maybe.


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I found a completely adjustable one. Need to get more info on it.

[Dasquade]

What about once we shut down the car? I never logged (and not possible once ignition is turned off...) but does the charge cooler pump still keeps running or would it be just the 'afterrun' pump running untill ecu turns it off? Just curious if we run it on 'non signal mode' we dont interfer with the overall afterrun cyclus.
Guess the only way to know for sure is run the engine warm, shut down and check voltage on the unplugged harnass of charhe cooler pump.
*think i will just install a switch in the knee dash and switch on/off before and after startup...

[tabio42]

I wouldn’t think the pump has a closed power circuit while the car is off. If you power the pump, any signal other than a PWM type in the middle wire causes it to run 100% It can be full ground or full 12v and it will run 100%


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[tabio42]

Actually I think I may have misread your post. If the car is using the intercooler pump for afterrun cooling, I don’t think there is harm in letting it run 100% in that state either. I think there is no such thing as too much flow for cooling.


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[Clipse3GT]

I suppose you could splice in a turbo timer into the pump that would continue to run it after shut down.

[tabio42]

I suppose you could splice in a turbo timer into the pump that would continue to run it after shut down.

The ECU runs a separate pump after shutdown to cool the turbos and engine.


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[Clipse3GT]

The blue yellow wire is signal correct? Just want to confirm.

Brown is ground?
White / Red is power?
Blue / yellow is signal?


https://i.imgur.com/MhAAx2q.jpg

[mintytoo]

the middle wire is signal wire, you can interrupt it to go 100% cycle duty,

[mintytoo]

Wiring diagramhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/9abf4edf58cb14698475ff0fa5b5fb1e.jpg

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[Dasquade]

117451
Phf this got me confusing again. Unless i see it wrong, my stock harnass show:
*brown-black/yellow?-red/white
Where as ClipsGT has
*brown-white/red-blue/yellow
[o_o]
Mine is prefacelift euro car....

[tabio42]

The colors do not matter. The middle wire in the factory connector is the signal.


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[Audi-Here]

bhamcarnut - If you are still making the switched harness I'm interested - PM sent

[bhamcarnut]

bhamcarnut - If you are still making the switched harness I'm interested - PM sent

Got it and responded!!! Thanks!!!


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[ericw.]

117451
Phf this got me confusing again. Unless i see it wrong, my stock harnass show:
*brown-black/yellow?-red/white
Where as ClipsGT has
*brown-white/red-blue/yellow
[o_o]
Mine is prefacelift euro car....

From reading, it sounds like the wire color doesn't matter. It's the pin position that matters. No color coordination.

[Dasquade]

From reading, it sounds like the wire color doesn't matter. It's the pin position that matters. No color coordination.
Strange imho but lets hope (still havent mounted my pump :( ).

[tabio42]

From reading, it sounds like the wire color doesn't matter. It's the pin position that matters. No color coordination.

That’s right. Let’s put it to bed :)
The pump pins determine the power/ground/signal and the CWA 50 signal is the middle pin.


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[bhamcarnut]

I few weeks ago I had a blow out on my front driver tire. (Have a thread about AAA causing thousands of dollars in damage). The tire took out part of my inner fender liner and lower plastic shield. In doing that, it ripped open some of the charge cooler pump wires and at some point they touched and fried my pump. All that being said, I was able to find a good source for the pumps but only a limited amount. Very limited. Lol. If you want a pump and standard harness, let me know.

The pumps are OEM NOS (new old stock) Mercedes-AMG pumps. I can sell them for $300 with the standard harness. I am out of the harnesses right now but have ordered new parts to make some more. Let me know!!!!!


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[farbaj]

Where did you buy the CWA100 and the connector?


Still waiting for my pump. Unfortunately, I purchased it from North Carolina before the storms hit so it is delayed. Have everything else here for the upgrade and the new harness is just waiting to be tested.


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[bhamcarnut]

Where did you buy the CWA100 and the connector?

I make the connectors. I had originally bought the pump from from a Mercedes dealership in North Carolina.


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[Clipse3GT]

...

[c13thx]

https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bundles/audi-cwa50-to-cwa100-3-adapter-kit

For anyone across the water like myself (UK)

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[Clipse3GT]

Anyone getting this code after installing the mercedes CWA 100 pump? Softcodes sets after installing the CWA 100 pump. Not sure if anyone else is getting this with the pump.

Monday,17,June,2019,22:13:16:21272
VCDS Version: Release 19.6.0 (x64) Running on Windows 8 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06E-907-551-CGW.clb
Control Module Part Number: 4G0 906 014 D HW: 4H0 906 014
Component and/or Version: 4.0l V8TFSI / H63 0001
Software Coding: 0A2500326546010E3000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM40TFS0114G0906014D 001001 (AU57)
ROD: EV_ECM40TFS0114G0906014D.rod
VCID: 2345981E2A86E057A8-8076
1 Fault Found:

12352 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P023A 00 [039] - Open Circuit
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 80468 km
Date: 2019.06.17
Time: 22:05:46

Engine speed: 649.00 /min
Normed load value: 5.9 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 64 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.640 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3


Readiness: 1110 1100

[tabio42]

Did you do the 100% mod? That causes the code.


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[Clipse3GT]

Did you do the 100% mod? That causes the code.


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Hmm, I just got a harness from bhamcarnut I assumed it was controlled like stock system meaning it was variable. Maybe his patch cable does not have the signal wire hooked up to force the 100% duty cycle. I will send him an email and verify. Any issue running at 100% beside the soft code? I assume the AMG and BMW cars run these pumps at 100%.

[tabio42]

No issue. The pump will still run for 5+ years. All pumps degrade slightly with use but these pumps are durable.


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[Chiromikey]

Hmm, I just got a harness from bhamcarnut I assumed it was controlled like stock system meaning it was variable. Maybe his patch cable does not have the signal wire hooked up to force the 100% duty cycle. I will send him an email and verify. Any issue running at 100% beside the soft code? I assume the AMG and BMW cars run these pumps at 100%.

AMGs do not run their pumps continuously. They run an almost identically flawed system right down to married engine coolant lines, undersized intercooler, and an ECU that only turns the pump on after the IATs are already getting too hot.

[The Infiltrator]

Lots of part numbers and info, but very little on temps and logs.

Can people with this pump post their logs since it's now warmer outside and this would be a good time to see if this pump does very much please?!

I will get the Mercracing HX and looking at pump options. SRM has one but I don't need that power on a stock tune or stage 2 when I go that route.

[kaploww]

Lots of part numbers and info, but very little on temps and logs.

Can people with this pump post their logs since it's now warmer outside and this would be a good time to see if this pump does very much please?!

I will get the Mercracing HX and looking at pump options. SRM has one but I don't need that power on a stock tune or stage 2 when I go that route.

If you live anywhere with ambient temps greater than 70F you do.

The stock system is atrocious, and can not maintain consistent IAT’s. It heat soaks very quickly, and pulls significant amounts of timing.

It is an extraordinarily reactive system. By the time it is running at full capacity it is too late.

[The Infiltrator]

If you live anywhere with ambient temps greater than 70F you do.

The stock system is atrocious, and can not maintain consistent IAT’s. It heat soaks very quickly, and pulls significant amounts of timing.

It is an extraordinarily reactive system. By the time it is running at full capacity it is too late.

Do you have any IAT data logs on stock vs the CWA100? No one seems to have it...

[Dasquade]

I think the issue is most dont have a permant IAT gauge they can read off/log. Altough there is a general line in the IAT raising/lowering, it is also influenced by several other parameters (day ambiant temp, pulls but mostly traffic jams or even a stop in between). Especially if you made a stop and had the car rest a bit, heat soak enters the coolant system/hardware and the stock system is having a hard time cooling back down the IAT's. But i blame this big time on the stock pump not running at 100%.

Anyway, still havent had time to install my pump (but now the ambiant temps are raising, i see it is needed). Luckly i have a constant mmi display gauges where i can keep an eye on several parameters inclusing IAT after the charge cooler. I will try to install it asap (just hope my harnass it okey and i dont run into install issues but normally got everything covered).
Also have an ampere gauge i will be running on the harnass so i have a backup to check if pump is working (drain power) because with the signal wire "cut" there is no safety feature left to warn me. Planning to install a relay switch on the signal wire that gets input from button on steeringwheel to be able to run it in stock behavior or 100% mode.

[kaploww]

I have done some initial testing.

Both tests performed at 58F ambient.

Same tune.

2013 S6, 22psi, SRM800 Turbos.

Stock vs. MERC racing HX, and CWA100.

CWA50 (Stock Pump)/HX = Max IAT’s 140F at the end of 1/4 mile pull. 190ish at the end of a 1/2 mile pull.
CWA100/MERC racing HX = Max IAT of 114F at the end of a 1/4 mile pull. No data for 1/2 mile. (I didn’t continue to pull)

Keep in mind these are larger turbos. IAT’s for stock turbo vehicles will be higher at similar boost pressures due to the increased drive pressure/turbine speed/compressor speed required to produce similar boost pressures resulting in the smaller stock compressors being off their peak efficiency islands in the compressor maps.

[Dasquade]

I think pulls are one thing, but i think the most gain will (hopefully) be in recovering after a pull. The moment you go slow throttle the coolant pump goes into "limp" mode and only running at 10% and hardly use the stock or upgraded cooler.

[s4nicetry]

AMGs do not run their pumps continuously. They run an almost identically flawed system right down to married engine coolant lines, undersized intercooler, and an ECU that only turns the pump on after the IATs are already getting too hot.

I don't doubt it with their turbo and SC cars but don't some of the NA AMG's use this pump as well? I've heard the SLS AMG uses it as a main system pump. If this is true you would think the pump would be running at a higher load pretty much constantly.

[s4nicetry]

I have done some initial testing.

Both tests performed at 58F ambient.

Same tune.

2013 S6, 22psi, SRM800 Turbos.

Stock vs. MERC racing HX, and CWA100.

CWA50 (Stock Pump)/HX = Max IAT’s 140F at the end of 1/4 mile pull. 190ish at the end of a 1/2 mile pull.
CWA100/MERC racing HX = Max IAT of 114F at the end of a 1/4 mile pull. No data for 1/2 mile. (I didn’t continue to pull)

Keep in mind these are larger turbos. IAT’s for stock turbo vehicles will be higher at similar boost pressures due to the increased drive pressure/turbine speed/compressor speed required to produce similar boost pressures resulting in the smaller stock compressors being off their peak efficiency islands in the compressor maps.

Some great results, did you divorce the charge system and are you using the stock pwm control or did you snip the signal to the pump?

[kaploww]

Stock PWM.

Both tests were also started at an initial IAT of 98 degrees.

Non-divorces setup

[s4nicetry]

Stock PWM.

Both tests were also started at an initial IAT of 98 degrees.

Non-divorces setup

Big improvement, I wonder how much more could be gained (if any) from divorcing the system.

[Chiromikey]

Big improvement, I wonder how much more could be gained (if any) from divorcing the system.

The true gains from divorcing the systems are from the added capacity of the reservoir used. There’s very little if any mixing taking place and the joined system is for the ease of filling and bleeding. So if anyone is going through the trouble of a divorced system, fit a proper reservoir to see measurable gains, not just a filler tube that doesn’t add any significant coolant capacity.

[15 Phantom S6]

The true gains from divorcing the systems are from the added capacity of the reservoir used. There’s very little if any mixing taking place and the joined system is for the ease of filling and bleeding. So if anyone is going through the trouble of a divorced system, fit a proper reservoir to see measurable gains, not just a filler tube that doesn’t add any significant coolant capacity.

My understanding is that divorcing the system will reduce the coolant pressure on the turbocharger coolant loop which will allow our "intercooler" (one in the engine bay) to last longer as it is prone to failing under the sustained high pressure created by the system over time.. Totally agreed that additional coolant is a major help and a big factor when trying to upgrade the cooling system.

Ialready have the additional reservoir from the AMS cooling system and I plan to get the reservoir from SRM to add even more coolant capacity. I like that both the AMS and SRM reservoirs are in the engine bay so that a long run of lines and a box full of coolant in the trunk is not required like in other platforms. This along with upgrading the stock coolant pump should help alot.. I'm going to runs logs and test how high my IAT's rise once I clear up a few things..

[tabio42]

My understanding is that divorcing the system will reduce the coolant pressure on the turbocharger coolant loop which will allow our "intercooler" (one in the engine bay) to last longer as it is prone to failing under the sustained high pressure created by the system over time.. Totally agreed that additional coolant is a major help and a big factor when trying to upgrade the cooling system.

Ialready have the additional reservoir from the AMS cooling system and I plan to get the reservoir from SRM to add even more coolant capacity. I like that both the AMS and SRM reservoirs are in the engine bay so that a long run of lines and a box full of coolant in the trunk is not required like in other platforms. This along with upgrading the stock coolant pump should help alot.. I'm going to runs logs and test how high my IAT's rise once I clear up a few things..


In addition to adding longevity to the pump, lowering the pressure in the system will allow your pump to flow more liquid.


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[ZTM pearl]

Hiya Hofa & crew, thanks for the thread. I'm just going to parachute into this with my first post, please be gentle with me. I perused the tecomotive website and was impressed with how clearly it was set out and the information available, so I emailed a bunch of questions and this is the reply......

Hello Greg,

That is quite a bunch of questions. :-)
Let me see if I can work trough them one by one.

- Is a bigger pump desirable or essential? -
Overall ... not Audi specific ...
We found that the bigger pumps (CWA200-400) are not bringing down
intercooler temperatures more significantly than for instance a CWA100.
So starting with a CWA50 you can certainly upgrade to a CWA100 but
anything bigger would not make a huge difference.

- Do I need tiny or is the S7 control stuff ok? -
That is the big question we also can not answer. That is why we sell the
adapter kit as "experimental".
But maybe the Audi community can answer that question.

- Would I be better off with tiny? -
The advantage of the tinyCWA is that you can control all the CWA pumps.
The disadvantage is that it is more work to install.

- What should I get, the adapter kit to CWA100-3, or the 100-3 plus tiny? -
You can certainly try the adapter kit. If its not working you have the
option to run the pump at full speed all the time or to buy a tinyCWA
kit afterwards.

- Is the CWA100-3 the best choice? -
If you want the cars ECU to control the pump then the CWA100-3 is best
choice because it has the highest chance of working out of the box.
If you want to run the pump just at full speed then the CWA100-2 is also
a viable option. Or maybe even two .. Or two CWA50 ... Whatever
intercooler setup you like to use/want to build.

- How does the CWA100-3 compare with whatever it is that the RS7 has? -
We are no Audi experts. But I would guess the stock cars have the CWA50
maybe..
So the CWA100-3 would be a simple to do upgrade.
But maybe the Audi community knows more here, too.
If you are unsure you can send me the part number of the RS7 pump .. I
should be able to check what pump it is.

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias Mucke

Tiny is an experimental control module they offer. I suspect it's not very big. Clearly, I found Tobias to be very approachable and helpful. Getting information from quite a few other sources was like trying to get blood out of stone. I have ordered a CWA100-3 Pierburg pump and adaptor to go with my Merc Racing quad pass heat exchanger ($US 369) and meth injection. I have an S7 on which I am about to commit multiple atrocities including but not limited to 4mm oversize RS7 SRM turbos from Eurocode ($2044 USD), SRM intake pipes ($US805 from Eurocode), decat downpipes from RM Motors in Poland ($AUS910), Akra exhaust is already fitted and stage 3 tune will be by Trent, etuners, Sydney. Currently running with ABT piggy-back module (397 Kw) which cannot be adapted and which I will be flogging off. All comments gratefully accepted, (except the obvious one that my post was dropped from a height rather than introduced, and has too much irrelevant crap in it). Regards, ZTM Pearl. (which is short for Autoflex ZTM hypershift pearl, another planned atrocity).

[bajan01]

Not 4.0T but...

Just and FYI that I purchased and tested a CWA100-3 and harness from Tobias at Tecomotive (http://www.tecomotive.com) and have been running it on my SQ5 without any problems for many months now.

[The Infiltrator]

Hiya Hofa & crew, thanks for the thread. I'm just going to parachute into this with my first post, please be gentle with me. I perused the tecomotive website and was impressed with how clearly it was set out and the information available, so I emailed a bunch of questions and this is the reply......

Hello Greg,

That is quite a bunch of questions. :-)
Let me see if I can work trough them one by one.

- Is a bigger pump desirable or essential? -
Overall ... not Audi specific ...
We found that the bigger pumps (CWA200-400) are not bringing down
intercooler temperatures more significantly than for instance a CWA100.
So starting with a CWA50 you can certainly upgrade to a CWA100 but
anything bigger would not make a huge difference.

- Do I need tiny or is the S7 control stuff ok? -
That is the big question we also can not answer. That is why we sell the
adapter kit as "experimental".
But maybe the Audi community can answer that question.

- Would I be better off with tiny? -
The advantage of the tinyCWA is that you can control all the CWA pumps.
The disadvantage is that it is more work to install.

- What should I get, the adapter kit to CWA100-3, or the 100-3 plus tiny? -
You can certainly try the adapter kit. If its not working you have the
option to run the pump at full speed all the time or to buy a tinyCWA
kit afterwards.

- Is the CWA100-3 the best choice? -
If you want the cars ECU to control the pump then the CWA100-3 is best
choice because it has the highest chance of working out of the box.
If you want to run the pump just at full speed then the CWA100-2 is also
a viable option. Or maybe even two .. Or two CWA50 ... Whatever
intercooler setup you like to use/want to build.

- How does the CWA100-3 compare with whatever it is that the RS7 has? -
We are no Audi experts. But I would guess the stock cars have the CWA50
maybe..
So the CWA100-3 would be a simple to do upgrade.
But maybe the Audi community knows more here, too.
If you are unsure you can send me the part number of the RS7 pump .. I
should be able to check what pump it is.

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias Mucke

Tiny is an experimental control module they offer. I suspect it's not very big. Clearly, I found Tobias to be very approachable and helpful. Getting information from quite a few other sources was like trying to get blood out of stone. I have ordered a CWA100-3 Pierburg pump and adaptor to go with my Merc Racing quad pass heat exchanger ($US 369) and meth injection. I have an S7 on which I am about to commit multiple atrocities including but not limited to 4mm oversize RS7 SRM turbos from Eurocode ($2044 USD), SRM intake pipes ($US805 from Eurocode), decat downpipes from RM Motors in Poland ($AUS910), Akra exhaust is already fitted and stage 3 tune will be by Trent, etuners, Sydney. Currently running with ABT piggy-back module (397 Kw) which cannot be adapted and which I will be flogging off. All comments gratefully accepted, (except the obvious one that my post was dropped from a height rather than introduced, and has too much irrelevant crap in it). Regards, ZTM Pearl. (which is short for Autoflex ZTM hypershift pearl, another planned atrocity).

Nice. I'll be looking forward to your IAT logs. Will you test the pump and HX before upgrading the turbos and W/M?

[ZTM pearl]

Thanks Inf. To minimize cost everything is being put on together, so the only useful info will be the end result. Also I have to work out how to get IATs.
(It's all been started because it squeals when warm and the oil filler cap is stuck down with a big vacuum and the squeal stops when the cap is wrenched off and the PCV is a recognized problem. Any excuse is better than none. Hope that's not too off topic, I understand that's a sin).
BTW, how is your pump controlled or is it on continuously ? Thanks.

[ZTM pearl]

Sorry, that question about control of the pump should have been for bajan01

[kebabman]

Not even an hour. All you have to do is remove the tire, and the lower fender liner (If i can remember correctly 2 screws underneath 2 screws in the fenderwell and 2 push connectors) I used two pairs of vice grips to clamp off the coolant hoses and a 10 mm wrench to remove the pump bracket. Total time was maybe 45min. That was with me having to redo the harness connector. Very easy and straight forward.


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All I can say to this is LOL. I just changed the CWA-50 to a CWA-100 on my RS7 and like f**k did it take 30mins. Sure the pump is easy to access via the wheel well, but damn that stupid split clamp is a pain and the two coolant hose clamps are even worse. The top one wasn’t so bad but the back one you have like zero access to and of course the hose clamp was facing away from the wheel well. Anyway, I managed it after much cursing, I may just be inept, but for me it was more like a 1.5-2hr job all told.

Probably didn’t help that it’s 95F outside. [o_o]

[bajan01]

Sorry, that question about control of the pump should have been for bajan01

Mine is controlled the same way as the factory CWA50. I did not modify the wiring for it to run continuously like others have done.

[kebabman]

What do I have to log in VCDS to see the duty cycle of the pump? Want to check it’s working after my ham-fisted install. [:)]

[V10Jon]

For those who have installed already. Are you just clamping the coolant lines, disconnecting, then replacing the pump? Are you trying to purge the system or just hookup and go?

I may have missed it, but didn’t see a install guide posted yet.

Thanks!

[kebabman]

For those who have installed already. Are you just clamping the coolant lines, disconnecting, then replacing the pump? Are you trying to purge the system or just hookup and go?

I may have missed it, but didn’t see a install guide posted yet.

Thanks!

I clamped the top hose, you can’t really clamp the rear hose because there’s not enough room to get a clamp in there. I’d say I lost about 4-500ml of coolant total which was more unpleasant to get on my hands than anything else (horrible greasy shit). I used a vacuum bleed kit to refill the system with what I lost so no big deal.

[TruS4]

132586

Run 1 i sat at light to heat soak (multi gear pull) , Run 2 i was rolling (multi gear pull), Run 3 i sat at light to heat soak-this was a sport mode dig but for some reason it shifts low on its on (multi gear pull). Screenshot of the conditions. This is likely the hottest day of the last 3-5 years here and we are on a govt heat advisory. Logs will be below this image. Great delta and limited temp rise

Stg 1 tune, MercRacing, divorced with 95% distilled water and 5% purple ice, CWA100 pump, c7.5 s6

Run 1

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/log-run-1?log=0&data=0


Run 2

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-2?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8



Run 3

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-3-sport-mode-dig?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8&zoom=0-190&mark=115-116

Run from this morning 90F ambient

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/2-gear-pull?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8

[TruS4]

Ps these are worst possible conditions and are max for the system imo. I did logs in 80F ambient, temps started at 60c and actually dropped to 54c on WOT 2 gear pull. Thats what I typically see in "normal weather ", a drop in temps on pulls

[Hofahome]

132586

Run 1 i sat at light to heat soak (multi gear pull) , Run 2 i was rolling (multi gear pull), Run 3 i sat at light to heat soak-this was a sport mode dig but for some reason it shifts low on its on (multi gear pull). Screenshot of the conditions. This is likely the hottest day of the last 3-5 years here and we are on a govt heat advisory. Logs will be below this image. Great delta and limited temp rise

Stg 1 tune, MercRacing, divorced with 95% distilled water and 5% purple ice, CWA100 pump, c7.5 s6

Run 1

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/log-run-1?log=0&data=0


Run 2

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-2?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8



Run 3

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/run-3-sport-mode-dig?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8&zoom=0-190&mark=115-116

Run from this morning 90F ambient

https://datazap.me/u/demarcomsu/2-gear-pull?log=0&data=0-1-2-7-8

Thank you for posting. Are you running the pump at 100% all the time?


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[nvygw171]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.

[TruS4]

Thank you for posting. Are you running the pump at 100% all the time?


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Sorry yeah pump at 100%

[TruS4]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.

I use to run 2 pumps (non s4, similar system) and the signal wire was tied into oem fans. When I turned on fans, temps dropped, assuming the oem fans were turning on. Kinda cool

[Dozer88]

Check this one out, I think it's new from this guy, https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190328/81c6b700ff4ec07ec98b032be154e03b.jpg

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In for this, hes been very helpful so far and +1 for a great price.
Will report back once complete. *With absolutely no scientific data, sorry fellas not my thing

[Dasquade]

With the bassakward way Audi designed the cooling system is the IATS will always be hot cruising around until the throttle blade opens and allows for the pump/heat exchanger to work. The air just kinda sits in there and heat soaks behind the blade separated from the cooling system. I see they same drop in IAT under throttle. This is with both EMP and factory CWA verified at 100%. I can rapidly cool my IAT’s by applying light throttle to open up the throttle blade while cruising in between highway pulls.
That is indeed a very correct approche on it.....applying gas = boosting turbo = sucking in more fresh cold air and that definatly explains the 'big' IAT drops since ambient air is much cooler then the heat inside the piping. A better chart would be adding 'pre charge cooler IAT' as those tell a bigger story and tune depending. Still haven't installed mine, and some times i do wonder how much real effect it will have....but it must have effect. Even if your coolant water temp is high it still absorbs heat from the pre charge cooled air (witch is especially after heat soak entered HIGH).

[TruS4]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

[kebabman]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

I’m happy to do some logs with the CWA-100 I just fitted to my RS7, standard charge cooler for now until I fit the MercRacing HX. I have a rosstech cable someone just needs to explain how / what I need to log. [;)]

[Chiromikey]

Folks begged for logs..no one person has anything to say now lmaooooo

Pretty sure I just read a FB post that claimed his cwa100, merc h/e, and divorced system didn’t improve his oat logs much but of course I can’t find it now.

[nvygw171]

Pretty sure I just read a FB post that claimed his cwa100, merc h/e, and divorced system didn’t improve his oat logs much but of course I can’t find it now.

Can’t vouch for every setup but I have the giant EMP pump, apr exhanger and divorced setup (SRM stage 2?) I am only seeing a 15-20f IAT gain through gears full throttle gears 1-4. I don’t have any before logs to compare but looking at others data and considering I’m gtx3071 I’m happy.
My starting IAT depend on the situation but I can cool back down below 95f in 85 ambient while cruising.

Like mentioned before low speed/stop and go IAT’s with mostly throttle closed or very low throttle percentages are inherently going to be higher because of the way are cooling systems are designed.

[Dasquade]

Can’t vouch for every setup but I have the giant EMP pump, apr exhanger and divorced setup (SRM stage 2?) I am only seeing a 15-20f IAT gain through gears full throttle gears 1-4. I don’t have any before logs to compare but looking at others data and considering I’m gtx3071 I’m happy.
My starting IAT depend on the situation but I can cool back down below 95f in 85 ambient while cruising.

Like mentioned before low speed/stop and go IAT’s with mostly throttle closed or very low throttle percentages are inherently going to be higher because of the way are cooling systems are designed.

Thank you for your honest feedback and imho that is still still pretty good result i think. 85°F ambient (30°C) is pretty high and not easy to recover from that. Overall my current setup (stage 2 + bigger cooler + stock pump) almost always gives me a +15/20°C IAT over ambient. Especially the recovery once it goes past 50-60°C it is very hard to go back low to the +15/20 over ambient. Luckly around here +25/30°C is happening so often.

[Chiromikey]

Can’t vouch for every setup but I have the giant EMP pump, apr exhanger and divorced setup (SRM stage 2?) I am only seeing a 15-20f IAT gain through gears full throttle gears 1-4. I don’t have any before logs to compare but looking at others data and considering I’m gtx3071 I’m happy.
My starting IAT depend on the situation but I can cool back down below 95f in 85 ambient while cruising.

Like mentioned before low speed/stop and go IAT’s with mostly throttle closed or very low throttle percentages are inherently going to be higher because of the way are cooling systems are designed.

Your bigger turbos are flowing more efficiently than stockers so that could be playing a possibly significant role in IATs as well.

[nvygw171]

Your bigger turbos are flowing more efficiently than stockers so that could be playing a possibly significant role in IATs as well.

This is true, hadn’t thought of that. I did order some spal fans to put on the heat exchanger but while I was waiting on them I went ahead and sealed the heat exchanger to the radiator/ac fan assembly. Sealing them worked really well and now at idle the IAT’s will recover slowly even without the fans spal fans.

[Hofahome]

Can’t vouch for every setup but I have the giant EMP pump, apr exhanger and divorced setup (SRM stage 2?) I am only seeing a 15-20f IAT gain through gears full throttle gears 1-4. I don’t have any before logs to compare but looking at others data and considering I’m gtx3071 I’m happy.
My starting IAT depend on the situation but I can cool back down below 95f in 85 ambient while cruising.

Like mentioned before low speed/stop and go IAT’s with mostly throttle closed or very low throttle percentages are inherently going to be higher because of the way are cooling systems are designed.

You ever think about running a killer chiller? Would drop starting IATs significantly


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[nvygw171]

You ever think about running a killer chiller? Would drop starting IATs significantly

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I have and it does seem great for that. If I was planning on more 1/4 mile type racing I would go that route. Ounce everything is working cohesive I will be doing a 1/4 mile run or two just for times but past that will be mostly roll racing with the occasional 1/2mile event. Currently back to back roll racing the IAT’s cool down fast enough with my current setup that I am ok for now.

[ntsantos]

This is true, hadn’t thought of that. I did order some spal fans to put on the heat exchanger but while I was waiting on them I went ahead and sealed the heat exchanger to the radiator/ac fan assembly. Sealing them worked really well and now at idle the IAT’s will recover slowly even without the fans spal fans.You got pics of how you sealed these components? Great idea.

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[nvygw171]

You got pics of how you sealed these components? Great idea.

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Not a great picture but basically took some leftover SFI roll bar padding (won’t melt) cut to shape and wrapped it in foil tape. Inserted between the gaps on all 4 sides boxing in the heat exhanger.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190725/bda669d1ace336ef04c90dac8e63b1ca.jpg


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[ntsantos]

Not a great picture but basically took some leftover SFI roll bar padding (won’t melt) cut to shape and wrapped it in foil tape. Inserted between the gaps on all 4 sides boxing in the heat exhanger.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190725/bda669d1ace336ef04c90dac8e63b1ca.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat's kinda what I imagined. Cheap and easy to test for functionality. I have already added a switch for the pump, but the 100% on with the CWA100 doesn't seem to do much without proper airflow, even using the AC fan. In my previous A7, the AC fan would drop IATs a good 10C at idle. Not the same on the S8.


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[tabio42]

Pretty sure I just read a FB post that claimed his cwa100, merc h/e, and divorced system didn’t improve his oat logs much but of course I can’t find it now.

There was nothing scientific in that test. Read the comments in that thread.


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[nvygw171]

That's kinda what I imagined. Cheap and easy to test for functionality. I have already added a switch for the pump, but the 100% on with the CWA100 doesn't seem to do much without proper airflow, even using the AC fan. In my previous A7, the AC fan would drop IATs a good 10C at idle. Not the same on the S8.


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I actually did notice switching the ac on seemed to bump the fan speed. I super scientifically put a cigarette in front of the grill and it pulls air better then my previous test sample cigarette.

[ntsantos]

I actually did notice switching the ac on seemed to bump the fan speed. I super scientifically put a cigarette in front of the grill and it pulls air better then my previous test sample cigarette.That's some "good 'nuff" testing!

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[kaploww]

There was nothing scientific in that test. Read the comments in that thread.


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Really...

How exactly are logs not scientific?

[tabio42]

Really...

How exactly are logs not scientific?

There is no data for what the car did before the changes to the cooling system. Do you consider simply gathering data without a control or a basis for comparison to be a good test satisfying the scientific method?


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[ericw.]

There is no data for what the car did before the changes to the cooling system. Do you consider simply gathering data without a control or a basis for comparison to be a good test satisfying the scientific method?


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kaploww recorded a high of 190 IAT after a 1/4 mile pull while stock/tuned, and I think something like 116 high after the merc HX and AMG coolant pump upgrade...

[tabio42]

kaploww recorded a high of 190 IAT after a 1/4 mile pull while stock/tuned, and I think something like 116 high after the merc HX and AMG coolant pump upgrade...

Don’t get me wrong. I think the upgrade works. But the Fb post had insufficient data.


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[Hofahome]

Am I dumb to think about spraying w/m on the heat exchanger (along with meth post-turbo)? Obviously not spraying all the time - just when going WOT


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[ericw.]

Don’t get me wrong. I think the upgrade works. But the Fb post had insufficient data.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI'm not sure what fb post your referring to but kaploww is local to me. He sent me pics of the logs.

Upgraded heat exchangers aren't new or ground breaking technology. I guess if you still doubt that they do what every car tuner on every platform says they do, that's on you but I question your logic and motivation behind that conclusion.

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[.skully.]

I'll be installing an APR CPS kit, and CWA100-3 pump on my Stage 2 S6 tomorrow or Saturday.

[tabio42]

I'm not sure what fb post your referring to but kaploww is local to me. He sent me pics of the logs.

Upgraded heat exchangers aren't new or ground breaking technology. I guess if you still doubt that they do what every car tuner on every platform says they do, that's on you but I question your logic and motivation behind that conclusion.

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How can you engage in a debate without knowing the source material? There is a Facebook post (previously referenced here) with data from a car with a CWA100-3 and a Merc Racing HX. The OP in that post mentions that he doesn’t think the setup is very beneficial.

Please read the Fb thread before you post. You are debating against yourself. I agree that heat exchanger upgrades work if they are designed properly. The Fb thread seems to argue against what you and I are saying.


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[ericw.]

How can you engage in a debate without knowing the source material? There is a Facebook post (previously referenced here) with data from a car with a CWA100-3 and a Merc Racing HX. The OP in that post mentions that he doesn’t think the setup is very beneficial.

Please read the Fb thread before you post. You are debating against yourself. I agree that heat exchanger upgrades work if they are designed properly. The Fb thread seems to argue against what you and I are saying.


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This is not facebook and the data is here spread across a few threads. Your facebook provided source data (lol) is not the data I'm referring to nor is it the data that I think anyone here is basing their decisions off of. I'm not sure how you can carry this discussion without reading the threads. Read the threads before you post.

To start off with, here was the results of kaploww's initial testing after installation of his HX and pump:

I have done some initial testing.

Both tests performed at 58F ambient.

Same tune.

2013 S6, 22psi, SRM800 Turbos.

Stock vs. MERC racing HX, and CWA100.

CWA50 (Stock Pump)/HX = Max IAT’s 140F at the end of 1/4 mile pull. 190ish at the end of a 1/2 mile pull.
CWA100/MERC racing HX = Max IAT of 114F at the end of a 1/4 mile pull. No data for 1/2 mile. (I didn’t continue to pull)

Keep in mind these are larger turbos. IAT’s for stock turbo vehicles will be higher at similar boost pressures due to the increased drive pressure/turbine speed/compressor speed required to produce similar boost pressures resulting in the smaller stock compressors being off their peak efficiency islands in the compressor maps.

[Hofahome]

I'll be installing an APR CPS kit, and CWA100-3 pump on my Stage 2 S6 tomorrow or Saturday.

Can you do us a favor and log IATs, timing, etc. before and after in similar conditions?


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[kaploww]

kaploww recorded a high of 190 IAT after a 1/4 mile pull while stock/tuned, and I think something like 116 high after the merc HX and AMG coolant pump upgrade...

I’d love to say that’s true Eric, but unfortunately my initial assessments were optimistic.

I went back and reviewed old logs.

I have piles of data that are showing that the Merc racing heat exchanger is not doing anything better than stock. We have a heat exchanger from the factory capable of removing 900ish hp worth of hot air. The MERC heat exchanger is probably capable of removing significantly more.... but... we’ll talk about why it’s not helping later.

The pump has helped marginally, but it has helped.

There are three things you can do to help this car in stockish form.

1) Install a massive pump to cram as much water as quickly as possible through our shitty intercooler core as possible.

2) Prevent heat soak of the intercooler system while stopped by continuously running your massive pump, and installing a set of fans to prevent radiant heat from your A/C/Radiator/stagnant air in the ridiculously hot engine compartment from heat soaking the heat exchanger.

3) Continuously run the pump so that the water in the core does not get heated by the hot V design of the engine without being able to pump water out of the core to be dissipated through the heat exchanger.

The problem isn’t with the systems ability to dissipate heat from the heat exchanger to the atmosphere.

The problem comes from our factory intercooler core (in the intake manifold) being too small and inefficient to remove an adequate quantity of heat from the intake air being ingested by the engine.

It’s tiny.

The intercooler core is 1/2 the size, and volume of any other comparable car on the market making comparable power. It’s *maybe* the volume of the stock S4 bricks in their intake manifold if you laid them side by side. Realistically it’s absolutely maxed out at RS7 stage 1, or S6 stage 2 power, and is hindering performance significantly even at stock levels of boost.

The only option to keep this system in check beyond serious modifications to the engine bay, would be a water/meth setup.

Bottom line, the heat exchanger on the front of the car in stock form is more than adequate for current power levels on both the S an RS cars.

Smashing more water through the core with a massive pump will help, keeping the water cool while stationary will help.

Will a larger core help? Yes, after you have done the massive pump upgrade, and the fans. It will provide a marginal increase in efficiency.

The main thing that needs to be addressed is charge cooler brick efficiency. It’s atrocious.

[kebabman]

Well that's disappointing news. My Stage 1 RS7 has intake temps in the 190-195F range after a single 1/4mile run. I was hoping to get that down with a CWA-100 and MercRacing HX....already done the CWA-100 but haven't fitted the HX, sounds like maybe I shouldn't bother?

It's painfully obvious how ridiculous engine bay temps are on this car, when you open the hood you can practically cook a s'more on it from 6ft away, the amount of heat it radiates is crazy. Ive got APR downpipes to fit to my car as I figured moving the cats out of the engine bay might help somewhat with the heat, I'm also having the downpipes ceramic coated by Jet-Hot in their 2500F coating which they claim will bring down radiated heat a lot too. Am I wasting my time with the downpipes as well as far as cooling goes? All I'm really after is a repeatable mid-high 10s car.

[.skully.]

Can you do us a favor and log IATs, timing, etc. before and after in similar conditions?


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Yeah, I can get that for you!

[ericw.]

I’d love to say that’s true Eric, but unfortunately my initial assessments were optimistic.

I went back and reviewed old logs.

I have piles of data that are showing that the Merc racing heat exchanger is not doing anything better than stock. We have a heat exchanger from the factory capable of removing 900ish hp worth of hot air. The MERC heat exchanger is probably capable of removing significantly more.... but... we’ll talk about why it’s not helping later.

The pump has helped marginally, but it has helped.

There are three things you can do to help this car in stockish form.

1) Install a massive pump to cram as much water as quickly as possible through our shitty intercooler core as possible.

2) Prevent heat soak of the intercooler system while stopped by continuously running your massive pump, and installing a set of fans to prevent radiant heat from your A/C/Radiator/stagnant air in the ridiculously hot engine compartment from heat soaking the heat exchanger.

3) Continuously run the pump so that the water in the core does not get heated by the hot V design of the engine without being able to pump water out of the core to be dissipated through the heat exchanger.

The problem isn’t with the systems ability to dissipate heat from the heat exchanger to the atmosphere.

The problem comes from our factory intercooler core (in the intake manifold) being too small and inefficient to remove an adequate quantity of heat from the intake air being ingested by the engine.

It’s tiny.

The intercooler core is 1/2 the size, and volume of any other comparable car on the market making comparable power. It’s *maybe* the volume of the stock S4 bricks in their intake manifold if you laid them side by side. Realistically it’s absolutely maxed out at RS7 stage 1, or S6 stage 2 power, and is hindering performance significantly even at stock levels of boost.

The only option to keep this system in check beyond serious modifications to the engine bay, would be a water/meth setup.

Bottom line, the heat exchanger on the front of the car in stock form is more than adequate for current power levels on both the S an RS cars.

Smashing more water through the core with a massive pump will help, keeping the water cool while stationary will help.

Will a larger core help? Yes, after you have done the massive pump upgrade, and the fans. It will provide a marginal increase in efficiency.

The main thing that needs to be addressed is charge cooler brick efficiency. It’s atrocious.

What lead to the drastic change in results from what you showed me and posted before?
I have the merc HX sitting beside me on the floor in my office. I guess I need to go log IAT's and record the DA so I can get data going as well.


Can we get ahold of your raw data set? Are you sure the old data you're looking at is an apples too apples comparison (ie matching ambient temps)?

[Chiromikey]

I’d love to say that’s true Eric, but unfortunately my initial assessments were optimistic.

I went back and reviewed old logs.

I have piles of data that are showing that the Merc racing heat exchanger is not doing anything better than stock. We have a heat exchanger from the factory capable of removing 900ish hp worth of hot air. The MERC heat exchanger is probably capable of removing significantly more.... but... we’ll talk about why it’s not helping later.

The pump has helped marginally, but it has helped.

There are three things you can do to help this car in stockish form.

1) Install a massive pump to cram as much water as quickly as possible through our shitty intercooler core as possible.

2) Prevent heat soak of the intercooler system while stopped by continuously running your massive pump, and installing a set of fans to prevent radiant heat from your A/C/Radiator/stagnant air in the ridiculously hot engine compartment from heat soaking the heat exchanger.

3) Continuously run the pump so that the water in the core does not get heated by the hot V design of the engine without being able to pump water out of the core to be dissipated through the heat exchanger.

The problem isn’t with the systems ability to dissipate heat from the heat exchanger to the atmosphere.

The problem comes from our factory intercooler core (in the intake manifold) being too small and inefficient to remove an adequate quantity of heat from the intake air being ingested by the engine.

It’s tiny.

The intercooler core is 1/2 the size, and volume of any other comparable car on the market making comparable power. It’s *maybe* the volume of the stock S4 bricks in their intake manifold if you laid them side by side. Realistically it’s absolutely maxed out at RS7 stage 1, or S6 stage 2 power, and is hindering performance significantly even at stock levels of boost.

The only option to keep this system in check beyond serious modifications to the engine bay, would be a water/meth setup.

Bottom line, the heat exchanger on the front of the car in stock form is more than adequate for current power levels on both the S an RS cars.

Smashing more water through the core with a massive pump will help, keeping the water cool while stationary will help.

Will a larger core help? Yes, after you have done the massive pump upgrade, and the fans. It will provide a marginal increase in efficiency.

The main thing that needs to be addressed is charge cooler brick efficiency. It’s atrocious.

I’ve been down this exact road for the last decade and a half with my AMGs. This is the reason I haven’t bothered with the intercooler system on this car and started collecting parts for a proper water/meth install. It will be far cheaper with much better results.

[TruS4]

Pretty sure I just read a FB post that claimed his cwa100, merc h/e, and divorced system didn’t improve his oat logs much but of course I can’t find it now.

False!

[TruS4]

I also ran my setup in ambient temps around low 80s F and temps started at 60c after 2 gears temps went down to 54c. I am beyond happy with my MercRacing +CWA100 +divorced system. Most tunes dont start pulling iat related timing until 75c. In 102F ambient with horrible DA, my temps didnt go above 63c in a 3 and 4 gear pull!

It sounds like folks want meth performance from a heat exchanger.
This thread makes my head hurt lol

[Chiromikey]

False!

Lmao, ok bro [rolleyes]

[tabio42]

This is not facebook and the data is here spread across a few threads. Your facebook provided source data (lol) is not the data I'm referring to nor is it the data that I think anyone here is basing their decisions off of. I'm not sure how you can carry this discussion without reading the threads. Read the threads before you post.

To start off with, here was the results of kaploww's initial testing after installation of his HX and pump:

Please read post #370 where I specifically responded to someone about a Facebook post. I don’t need to read anything on audizine to make a statement about a Facebook post.

Btw, I may be wrong, but the Facebook data you are scoffing at appears to be from kaploww.


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[ericw.]

Please read post #370 where I specifically responded to someone about a Facebook post. I don’t need to read anything on audizine to make a statement about a Facebook post.

Btw, I may be wrong, but the Facebook data you are scoffing at appears to be from kaploww.


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First, I'm not scoffing at anything but your attitude.

Yeah, I just talked with him on the phone and he says there are gains to be had but whether it's enough gains to be worth it is up for debate... at $300 for a HX and another $300 for a coolant pump, it's not breaking the bank for some gains if you're a 4.0t owner.

We're going to get together and review his data in a week or two and I'm going to get setup to log data and variables before I start my installation. At the moment, for me there's just too many unknown variables across the data set that's being compared along with different methods being used to collect data.

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[tabio42]

First, I'm not scoffing at anything but your attitude.

Yeah, I just talked with him on the phone and he says there are gains to be had but whether it's enough gains to be worth it is up for debate... at $300 for a HX and another $300 for a coolant pump, it's not breaking the bank for some gains if you're a 4.0t owner.

We're going to get together and review his data in a week or two and I'm going to get setup to log data and variables before I start my installation. At the moment, for me there's just too many unknown variables across the data set that's being compared along with different methods being used to collect data.

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I’m so confused. I just went back and read my recent posts. You seem to have misconstrued something I typed. Remember, this is the Internet. You have no idea what my attitude is. It is simply your perception.

To clarify for you, here are my opinions -
The “test” posted on FB was not useful. That is the only test I have referenced.

I sell CWA100-3 pump kits. I have sold probably fifty of these pumps in the past four to five months. I know they work. I wouldn’t sell them if they didn’t.

I’m not convinced the Merc HX is any better than stock on an S6/7. I highly doubt it is better than stock on an RS7 or S8. I’m not the first to reference this, but as system pressure increases, an electric pump’s flow decreases. A quad pass HX (single row/dual row?) may be too much restriction.

Even though I stand fast on my opinion of his Facebook test post, I agree with John on several things-
You need a high flowing pump.
You have to run the pump full speed all the time.
You need airflow across the HX.
The factory intercooler is too small and inefficient.




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[ericw.]

I’m so confused. I just went back and read my recent posts. You seem to have misconstrued something I typed. Remember, this is the Internet. You have no idea what my attitude is. It is simply your perception.

To clarify for you, here are my opinions -
The “test” posted on FB was not useful. That is the only test I have referenced.

I sell CWA100-3 pump kits. I have sold probably fifty of these pumps in the past four to five months. I know they work. I wouldn’t sell them if they didn’t.

I’m not convinced the Merc HX is any better than stock on an S6/7. I highly doubt it is better than stock on an RS7 or S8. I’m not the first to reference this, but as system pressure increases, an electric pump’s flow decreases. A quad pass HX (single row/dual row?) may be too much restriction.

Even though I stand fast on my opinion of his Facebook test post, I agree with John on several things-
You need a high flowing pump.
You have to run the pump full speed all the time.
You need airflow across the HX.
The factory intercooler is too small and inefficient.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not sure how I can misconstrue you telling me that I can't engage in a forum discussion if I didn't read some mysterious facebook post that you say was mentioned on post 370 (but wasn't actually):
https://i.imgur.com/ViTNvWq.png

How about you hook it up with a good price on a pump and we call it a truce?

[tabio42]

Not sure how I can misconstrue you telling me that I can't engage in a forum discussion if I didn't read some mysterious facebook post that you say was mentioned on post 370 (but wasn't actually):
https://i.imgur.com/ViTNvWq.png

How about you hook it up with a good price on a pump and we call it a truce?

Pretty clear to me that I am replying to chiromikey who is specifically talking about a Facebook post.

No need for a truce since I’d still give you awkward hugs if we met. But I’d be glad to get you a pump at a discount if you are going to do a legitimate before and after test. The only problem is Pierburg’s aftermarket dept is out of stock until next month. Guess I sold them all :)

Hit me up on pm. I have another option or two.


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[MolonLabe300]

I’m so confused. I just went back and read my recent posts. You seem to have misconstrued something I typed. Remember, this is the Internet. You have no idea what my attitude is. It is simply your perception.

To clarify for you, here are my opinions -
The “test” posted on FB was not useful. That is the only test I have referenced.

I sell CWA100-3 pump kits. I have sold probably fifty of these pumps in the past four to five months. I know they work. I wouldn’t sell them if they didn’t.

I’m not convinced the Merc HX is any better than stock on an S6/7. I highly doubt it is better than stock on an RS7 or S8. I’m not the first to reference this, but as system pressure increases, an electric pump’s flow decreases. A quad pass HX (single row/dual row?) may be too much restriction.

Even though I stand fast on my opinion of his Facebook test post, I agree with John on several things-
You need a high flowing pump.
You have to run the pump full speed all the time.
You need airflow across the HX.
The factory intercooler is too small and inefficient.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProIt is a dual row.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[MolonLabe300]

It is a dual row.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)https://mercracing.net/shop/air-to-water-high-capacity-heat-exchanger-m3/133221

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[ericw.]

Pretty clear to me that I am replying to chiromikey who is specifically talking about a Facebook post.

No need for a truce since I’d still give you awkward hugs if we met. But I’d be glad to get you a pump at a discount if you are going to do a legitimate before and after test. The only problem is Pierburg’s aftermarket dept is out of stock until next month. Guess I sold them all :)

Hit me up on pm. I have another option or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI'd be fine with that wait because we're in a heatwave at the moment so it's not a good time to do testing right now. Recreating ambient temp variable would be extra challenging with estimated highs above 100*F for the near future, and I don't want to be in the garage through this. Lol

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[ericw.]

For test scenarios..

1. Stock cooling (base line)
2a. HX only
or
2b. CWA-100 pump only
3. CWA-100 & HX

Between 2a and 2b, which is more desirable test scenario? I was hoping not to uninstall anything unless I need to but I suppose I could, it's just going to waste coolant and time.

[kebabman]

For test scenarios..

1. Stock cooling (base line)
2a. HX only
or
2b. CWA-100 pump only
3. CWA-100 & HX

Between 2a and 2b, which is more desirable test scenario? I was hoping not to uninstall anything unless I need to but I suppose I could, it's just going to waste coolant and time.

Go with 2b because the CWA-100 install is easier and can be done without draining the cooling system.

[wwhan]

Go with 2b because the CWA-100 install is easier and can be done without draining the cooling system.

Even if one clamps the hoses for the pump install, there will be some air in the system. Do you vacuum bleed?

[kebabman]

Even if one clamps the hoses for the pump install, there will be some air in the system. Do you vacuum bleed?

Yes, took about 500ml to refill the system after changing the coolant pump.

[nvygw171]

Dug through some logs for my setup. This was my high (bad IAT) for my logs as far as can tell. The last of about 3 back to back 1/4 mile pulls . The IAT’s at the end of the first 1/4 run were mid 120’s. Some of the IAT gain seems to have come from cruising around back to the start.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190730/c6e441815f9ee8728750f11ca6fab91f.jpg


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[Mighted1987]

Looking at your signature, that one hell of a list of mods, what tune are you running/fuel?



Dug through some logs for my setup. This was my high (bad IAT) for my logs as far as can tell. The last of about 3 back to back 1/4 mile pulls . The IAT’s at the end of the first 1/4 run were mid 120’s. Some of the IAT gain seems to have come from cruising around back to the start.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190730/c6e441815f9ee8728750f11ca6fab91f.jpg


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[s4nicetry]

Dug through some logs for my setup. This was my high (bad IAT) for my logs as far as can tell. The last of about 3 back to back 1/4 mile pulls . The IAT’s at the end of the first 1/4 run were mid 120’s. Some of the IAT gain seems to have come from cruising around back to the start.

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These are you IAT's with SRM's cooling setup while spraying meth?

[nvygw171]

These are you IAT's with SRM's cooling setup while spraying meth?
Haven’t used meth yet. This is just SRM’s full cooling package. The ambient was in the 70’s.


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[Dasquade]

So what are peoples toughts about the 'leave signal wire/ecu controle pump' versus 'run it 100% all the time'?
I still haven't installed my pump :s but i was talking about it with a friend that kinda knows a thing or two about cars...
He says audi kept the charge cooler pump at 10% for a good reasons and that is when you are cruising or at a stop the turbo's aren't working hard and theirfor aren't producing a lot of heat and more or less blow pure ambient heat through the charge cooler (that has coolant temps of around +90°C). They keep the pump cycling at a very low speed to now exhange too much coolant heat into the manifold air...compaired to the turbo working heat (heating up by compression and radiant heat hot/cold side turbo) that is well over coolant temps. In a way i think he is correct that it might be better to keep stock signal wire hooked up.

Same for the SRM fan kit, maybe usefull for slow traffic use but once driving the fans might actually block incomming air slightly (sure the fans will be turning due to the wind pushing/rotating them but still)...

Fact is, the heat soak is meanly an issue in high ambient temps and slow traffic. Once heat soak entered the block and engine bay, it is hard to get it out (i have a gauge daily monitoring the IAT before and after charge cooler). Luckly it looks ambient temps are the main killer (so in a way for now i more seak ways to keep the engine bay as cool as possible). I'm affraid only water/meth is the best bang for money mod to keep things cooler....but no dought the other cooling mods help, luckly around here it is only a 2-3 month issue.

*there is a reasons i guess why most stage 3+ cars switch to air-air intercoolers instead of trying to squeeze every little upgrade out of the silly small charge cooler setup :(.

[IowaRS7]

So what are peoples toughts about the 'leave signal wire/ecu controle pump' versus 'run it 100% all the time'?
I still haven't installed my pump :s but i was talking about it with a friend that kinda knows a thing or two about cars...
He says audi kept the charge cooler pump at 10% for a good reasons and that is when you are cruising or at a stop the turbo's aren't working hard and theirfor aren't producing a lot of heat and more or less blow pure ambient heat through the charge cooler (that has coolant temps of around +90°C). They keep the pump cycling at a very low speed to now exhange too much coolant heat into the manifold air...compaired to the turbo working heat (heating up by compression and radiant heat hot/cold side turbo) that is well over coolant temps. In a way i think he is correct that it might be better to keep stock signal wire hooked up.

Same for the SRM fan kit, maybe usefull for slow traffic use but once driving the fans might actually block incomming air slightly (sure the fans will be turning due to the wind pushing/rotating them but still)...

Fact is, the heat soak is meanly an issue in high ambient temps and slow traffic. Once heat soak entered the block and engine bay, it is hard to get it out (i have a gauge daily monitoring the IAT before and after charge cooler). Luckly it looks ambient temps are the main killer (so in a way for now i more seak ways to keep the engine bay as cool as possible). I'm affraid only water/meth is the best bang for money mod to keep things cooler....but no dought the other cooling mods help, luckly around here it is only a 2-3 month issue.

*there is a reasons i guess why most stage 3+ cars switch to air-air intercoolers instead of trying to squeeze every little upgrade out of the silly small charge cooler setup :(.

Audi also designed the car to deliver 560HP not 700+, so the mods in question are addressing an issue created outside their engineering design. The data thus far would suggest that your theories do not hold up. Maybe the ideal is to have a bigger pump with similar control as the stock one, but its likely not a real issue to run a bigger pump at 100%, especially if you have added a bigger heat exchanger, a divorcing tank and fans to add more fluid and capacity to cool the fluid. An air to air system isn't necessarily ideal either. Would you really want to remove the front crash bar on a daily driver?

[Chiromikey]

You don’t need to remove the front crash bar to run an air to air set up...

[Dasquade]

Audi also designed the car to deliver 560HP not 700+, so the mods in question are addressing an issue created outside their engineering design. The data thus far would suggest that your theories do not hold up. Maybe the ideal is to have a bigger pump with similar control as the stock one, but its likely not a real issue to run a bigger pump at 100%, especially if you have added a bigger heat exchanger, a divorcing tank and fans to add more fluid and capacity to cool the fluid. An air to air system isn't necessarily ideal either. Would you really want to remove the front crash bar on a daily driver?
Maybe you overread the issue or i didn't explain it good enough :).
My only consurn and friends theory is that when the car is cruising the intake temps are way below coolant water temps and maybe running the pump at 100% during cruising might actually hurt IAT's (cold air passing thought warmer cooler will heat up the air after cooler....versus hotter air under boost passing through colder coolant water will extract heat and give you colder air after cooler?..that is maybe audi kept the coolant water as static as possible when cruising?).
Anyway, just checking....yeah i could simply go forward with the plan (split signal wire and run it all the way to cabin, i actually bought relais and was planning to hook it up/program one of my unused buttons on R8 wheel to controle the pump if needed...winter versus summer).

No plans to go air to air ;).

[IowaRS7]

You don’t need to remove the front crash bar to run an air to air set up...

I am referring to the only air to air system currently out there for our platform at this time. Maybe someone else will design a solution that doesn't.

[IowaRS7]

Maybe you overread the issue or i didn't explain it good enough :).
My only consurn and friends theory is that when the car is cruising the intake temps are way below coolant water temps and maybe running the pump at 100% during cruising might actually hurt IAT's (cold air passing thought warmer cooler will heat up the air after cooler....versus hotter air under boost passing through colder coolant water will extract heat and give you colder air after cooler?..that is maybe audi kept the coolant water as static as possible when cruising?).
Anyway, just checking....yeah i could simply go forward with the plan (split signal wire and run it all the way to cabin, i actually bought relais and was planning to hook it up/program one of my unused buttons on R8 wheel to controle the pump if needed...winter versus summer).

No plans to go air to air ;).

I understand the reasoning, but again the data and logging are showing contrary results. Not only on our platform, but several others that use similar water to air setups. I say install it and send it!!

[Chiromikey]

I am referring to the only air to air system currently out there for our platform at this time. Maybe someone else will design a solution that doesn't.

You might be missing some...

136948

[IowaRS7]

You might be missing some...

136948

Crash bar looks pretty solid there [down]

[Chiromikey]

Crash bar looks pretty solid there [down]

Lol ok [up]

[wwhan]

Crash bar looks pretty solid there [down]

Looks like mucho dinero.

[kaploww]

Looks like mucho dinero.

And mucho pressure drop-o

[tabio42]

If anybody needs a CWA100 pump I just got a bunch :)


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[kmccall]

If anybody needs a CWA100 pump I just got a bunch :)


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How much?

[MolonLabe300]

I haven't installed my pump and hx yet.
I know this isn't coolant temp bit I have noticed oil temps drop much more quickly when my A/C is on "LO", the auto button is pressed and I have it one recirc. Do you think the ECU runs the pump at 100% if the AC is on the lowest setting?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[tabio42]

How much?

$325 shipped with harness


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[tabio42]

I haven't installed my pump and hx yet.
I know this isn't coolant temp bit I have noticed oil temps drop much more quickly when my A/C is on "LO", the auto button is pressed and I have it one recirc. Do you think the ECU runs the pump at 100% if the AC is on the lowest setting?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Probably has to do with the AC fans being on and drawing more airflow across the coolers.


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[Dasquade]

Today i finally swapped stock charge cooler pump with the CWA100-3 pump.
Sadely the connector partnumber i had found in this topic didn't fit mine (slightly too bit) but luckly i still had a 3 wire waterproof connector set and swapped those aswell.
For now i have 1 spliced signal wire so i can later on run it all the way into the cabin and hook it up with relay linked to button on my steeringwheel so i can toggle full or stock settings. Also i have 1 power wire spliced to connect an ohm meter so i can always check if the pump still working (in case i run without signal wire as you won't be able to check its status, but might dupe that idea once i have the charge cooler pump status in FIS).
Afaik the pump is working, manually turned it on and off with obdeleven and i feel the pump vibrating so guess okey.
No errors with the signal wire looped BUT at times i do get an error Charge Coolant Pump Controle Circuit/open! But if i monitor it status live during acceleration (when the error pops up) it switches nicely from 10% to 95% and keeps steady untill you release gas again. Coolant temps and IAT temps behave normal :s. Not sure if everybody else with the signal wire still connected receive that error (passive one) or something wrong on my setup :(.
I haven't tested with the signal wire open and haven't put my ohm meter on the power wire to verify if the pump pulling extra power when it goes in full mode.
*prefacelift S6 C7 europe.
So far couldn't test its effect yet, i did a semi long test drive with logging but warmer ambient temps again and stopped a few times so heatsoak was present again bit on the IAT's but coolant temps were normal.
Meanwhile installed some heat reflecting tape on my airbox and the 2in1connector.

Bit offtopic, but still think during stops and slow driving heat from the 'intercooler and radiator travels upwards and into the air intake causing our heatsoak.

[Dasquade]

Dispate the charge cooler pump error, things look to be working just fine. Yesterday ran the signal wire inside under the dash (what a great s**t job to get access to the gommet etc....anyway, it is in and hopefully waterproofed it again).
Was able to finally try out the stock versus full 95% mode (cutting signal wire).
Ambient temps were luckly bit higher today, i did waited till engine was warm before i cut the signal and after it i did noticed the coolant temps and IAT stayed more stable and recovered bit better then what it used to be. No big gains so far but expected that but so far liking it keeps things more stable.
Maybe the most effect it had was after i went shopping and heatsoak had entered the block. As often the IAT were near 60-70°C but they kinda quickly lowered back to 35-40°C and stayed hovering around that (but yeah, hit the highway so lots of 20°C ambient air went in). As we know, hard to do simular tests but definatly will try to keep monitor stuff and experiment bit :).
Again, didn't expect much tbh and it all depends on cruising speed/ambient/pushing/recovering....fact is, it isn't making things worse so sofar happy :).
Glad i did pulled the signal wire inside so i can keep pump at stock during warmup time (engine needs it heat especially on my short daily trips) but i can activate the pump when things become warmer and maintain IAT's and coolant temps. For the moment i have a simple switch hidden under the dash but easy access (gonna be linked to steeringwheel button later on...hopefully!).
*still considering meth/water, especially for summer and if i want to go stage 3.

[s4nicetry]

Dispate the charge cooler pump error, things look to be working just fine. Yesterday ran the signal wire inside under the dash (what a great s**t job to get access to the gommet etc....anyway, it is in and hopefully waterproofed it again).
Was able to finally try out the stock versus full 95% mode (cutting signal wire).
Ambient temps were luckly bit higher today, i did waited till engine was warm before i cut the signal and after it i did noticed the coolant temps and IAT stayed more stable and recovered bit better then what it used to be. No big gains so far but expected that but so far liking it keeps things more stable.
Maybe the most effect it had was after i went shopping and heatsoak had entered the block. As often the IAT were near 60-70°C but they kinda quickly lowered back to 35-40°C and stayed hovering around that (but yeah, hit the highway so lots of 20°C ambient air went in). As we know, hard to do simular tests but definatly will try to keep monitor stuff and experiment bit :).
Again, didn't expect much tbh and it all depends on cruising speed/ambient/pushing/recovering....fact is, it isn't making things worse so sofar happy :).
Glad i did pulled the signal wire inside so i can keep pump at stock during warmup time (engine needs it heat especially on my short daily trips) but i can activate the pump when things become warmer and maintain IAT's and coolant temps. For the moment i have a simple switch hidden under the dash but easy access (gonna be linked to steeringwheel button later on...hopefully!).
*still considering meth/water, especially for summer and if i want to go stage 3.

Would running your charge cooler pump at full load really have any effect on engine warm up time? It's a separate pump that only really connects at the reservoir, I wouldn't think it would really affect the engine warm up at all, maybe slightly. I do like your idea to bring the switch inside though, I've been randomly looking for a good switch and suitable location to place it.

[ericw.]

Today i finally swapped stock charge cooler pump with the CWA100-3 pump.
Sadely the connector partnumber i had found in this topic didn't fit mine (slightly too bit) but luckly i still had a 3 wire waterproof connector set and swapped those aswell.
For now i have 1 spliced signal wire so i can later on run it all the way into the cabin and hook it up with relay linked to button on my steeringwheel so i can toggle full or stock settings. Also i have 1 power wire spliced to connect an ohm meter so i can always check if the pump still working (in case i run without signal wire as you won't be able to check its status, but might dupe that idea once i have the charge cooler pump status in FIS).
Afaik the pump is working, manually turned it on and off with obdeleven and i feel the pump vibrating so guess okey.
No errors with the signal wire looped BUT at times i do get an error Charge Coolant Pump Controle Circuit/open! But if i monitor it status live during acceleration (when the error pops up) it switches nicely from 10% to 95% and keeps steady untill you release gas again. Coolant temps and IAT temps behave normal :s. Not sure if everybody else with the signal wire still connected receive that error (passive one) or something wrong on my setup :(.
I haven't tested with the signal wire open and haven't put my ohm meter on the power wire to verify if the pump pulling extra power when it goes in full mode.
*prefacelift S6 C7 europe.
So far couldn't test its effect yet, i did a semi long test drive with logging but warmer ambient temps again and stopped a few times so heatsoak was present again bit on the IAT's but coolant temps were normal.
Meanwhile installed some heat reflecting tape on my airbox and the 2in1connector.

Bit offtopic, but still think during stops and slow driving heat from the 'intercooler and radiator travels upwards and into the air intake causing our heatsoak.

Do you have a soft code showing up now? A friend installed his CWA100-3 and has a soft code. Not sure if it's expected but I assume it doesn't matter.

[Dasquade]

Do you have a soft code showing up now? A friend installed his CWA100-3 and has a soft code. Not sure if it's expected but I assume it doesn't matter.
When running the pump in stock configuration (with signal wire) i only get a soft error once i push the gas harder and only when coolant is still cold(er) it appears atm :s. Strange...defibatly will try to logg it more.

Anyway had some more time to play with the pump (keeping it stock versus at 95%). It does make a difference especially on the recovery but looks once coolant has heatsoaked my current setup is still having throuble to sick lower then 40°C IAT (+15-20°C over ambiant)...and summer isnt around anymore...

So kinda looking at my next options :).
1. Divorce the charge cooler system like somebody did (and SRM does if not mistaken. Can somebody please link me the topic of member who made topic about when he divorced his system and added extra cooler container. In a way it makes sence tgat would help...as now we wait untill all coolant is at 90-100°C as it is kept that warm to help warm up the engine...but i think once it is at that temp tge heat production is equal tgen what the system can cool it off (even with bigger hx). So keeping the charge cooler system divorced and unique to only cool the charge cooler from the start (cooler coolant) might hold up longer and not get heatsoaked. Not sure if more coolant helps, imho it only delays the heatsoak and it might even be worse once heatsoak entered (more coolant versus cooling area). Maybe an additional small hx on the right under airbox inline, with or without my stock cwa50 pump at full?

2. Been looking into it long time but keep holding it off...maybe only really needed in summer, but meth/water injection. It would definatly help but looks more as a coverup then as curing the main poor cooling charge cooler? Never the less w/m injection will most likely be done before next summer as it has other benefits (the water cleaning properties).

[Dasquade]

My main tought is...atm we trying to cool down +-170°C pre charge cooler compressed air with 90-100°C hot coolant and hoping to see near ambiant temp after charge cooler in an open system versus trying to cool it with slowly heating up divorced coolant loop that doesnt have influence of the engine/oil cooling loop. Again not expecting wonders of it but i think it would help things a lot.

[The Infiltrator]

When running the pump in stock configuration (with signal wire) i only get a soft error once i push the gas harder and only when coolant is still cold(er) it appears atm :s. Strange...defibatly will try to logg it more.

Anyway had some more time to play with the pump (keeping it stock versus at 95%). It does make a difference especially on the recovery but looks once coolant has heatsoaked my current setup is still having throuble to sick lower then 40°C IAT (+15-20°C over ambiant)...and summer isnt around anymore...

So kinda looking at my next options :).
1. Divorce the charge cooler system like somebody did (and SRM does if not mistaken. Can somebody please link me the topic of member who made topic about when he divorced his system and added extra cooler container. In a way it makes sence tgat would help...as now we wait untill all coolant is at 90-100°C as it is kept that warm to help warm up the engine...but i think once it is at that temp tge heat production is equal tgen what the system can cool it off (even with bigger hx). So keeping the charge cooler system divorced and unique to only cool the charge cooler from the start (cooler coolant) might hold up longer and not get heatsoaked. Not sure if more coolant helps, imho it only delays the heatsoak and it might even be worse once heatsoak entered (more coolant versus cooling area). Maybe an additional small hx on the right under airbox inline, with or without my stock cwa50 pump at full?

2. Been looking into it long time but keep holding it off...maybe only really needed in summer, but meth/water injection. It would definatly help but looks more as a coverup then as curing the main poor cooling charge cooler? Never the less w/m injection will most likely be done before next summer as it has other benefits (the water cleaning properties).

Couldn't find many links but here's one.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/850294-My-New-Divorced-IC-Setup-and-Cold-Air-Scoop

[Dasquade]

Couldn't find many links but here's one.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/850294-My-New-Divorced-IC-Setup-and-Cold-Air-Scoop
Yes that is the one! Thanks :)

[OlyS6]

tabio42, I tried to send a PM but your inbox is full. I'm interested in the CWA100 pump and harness. Does it simply replace the auxiliary electric pump that is located in front of the driver's side wheel well?

[tabio42]

tabio42, I tried to send a PM but your inbox is full. I'm interested in the CWA100 pump and harness. Does it simply replace the auxiliary electric pump that is located in front of the driver's side wheel well?

Sorry. I’ll clear them out and send you a message. Yes it replaces that pump and comes with an adaptor harness for the new pump.


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[kebabman]

Sorry. I’ll clear them out and send you a message. Yes it replaces that pump and comes with an adaptor harness for the new pump.


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Can confirm it’s a straight swap, I ordered one from Tabio and it fit perfectly and the wiring harness was very well made. [up]

[Hofahome]

In case people want to have an idea of where the pump is. I ran over metal hubcap and it tore off the plastic protector which sucks. Sorry for the semi blurry pics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/18fb37dc44ce18660944389bf0101863.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/c12a62c4d15e076145309f5b7be2944a.jpg


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[lituoklis88]

Silly, maybe. But for those who have SRM pumps installed: when you open the SRM coolant reservoir, do you visually see coolant flowing (fluid being disturbed in reservoir) , or does it appear still?
I installed everything up. Divorced the system, but now my only concern is that i hear the pump working, but there is no way for me to confirm that the coolant is flowing (besides talking it out to the street and logging temp), obviuosly it does not heat up at idle, for me to tell any difference in the upper or lower hoses. Any thoughts?

[Dasquade]

Silly, maybe. But for those who have SRM pumps installed: when you open the SRM coolant reservoir, do you visually see coolant flowing (fluid being disturbed in reservoir) , or does it appear still?
I installed everything up. Divorced the system, but now my only concern is that i hear the pump working, but there is no way for me to confirm that the coolant is flowing (besides talking it out to the street and logging temp), obviuosly it does not heat up at idle, for me to tell any difference in the upper or lower hoses. Any thoughts?
I recall a post of somebody showing a movie of his divorced can and it did showed flowing coolant (well it was before he full vacum pulled the system). Can't find the post though but yes basicly you should see some action with the cap off.

[IowaRS7]

Silly, maybe. But for those who have SRM pumps installed: when you open the SRM coolant reservoir, do you visually see coolant flowing (fluid being disturbed in reservoir) , or does it appear still?
I installed everything up. Divorced the system, but now my only concern is that i hear the pump working, but there is no way for me to confirm that the coolant is flowing (besides talking it out to the street and logging temp), obviuosly it does not heat up at idle, for me to tell any difference in the upper or lower hoses. Any thoughts?

With the Res cap off I do see disturbance of the fluid when the pump is on.

[lituoklis88]

Dasquade, i know the thread you are refering to. Its the one with the custom “vibrant” coolant tank, and upgraded cwa. actually, that post is the reason im asking. in his videos, you can clearly see the the coolant flow.
What could be causing no flow?
I bleeded the system the best i could without vacuum tool(that srm tank is just too big), using the bleed screw on top of merc heat exchanger. But considering that the cooler that sits in the pcv assembly is higher than the hx, could it be that theres and air bubble and its causing a no flow?

[Dasquade]

Well i was wondering aswell how much of the reservoir actually gets pulled and pushed in the reservoir. Unless i'm mistaken by its setup...it doesn't really has an in and out but only a buttom out (basing myself on the pictures of the other 'my new divoreced IC setup and cold air scoop' topic)? Most reservoirs i have seen online only have 1 line, i think the system would benefit more if it actually gets mixed and fed in and out (my bad if i have the setup mistaken....but if it indeed only has 1 line it would make sense there isn't much action going on in the reservoir :s ).
*i definatly think you need a proper vacum tool to bleed the system. If there was air...wouldn't it collect in the charge cooler unit since that is the highest point? I recently bled my coolant system (still stock non divorced), looks vacum and hold it....but when i squeeze the lines coming from the charge cooler it feels and especially sounds like not a full vacum in the charge cooler unit [:/] maybe somebody can test and tell if they have it aswell?

[lituoklis88]

Well, srm has two connections. Inlet/outlet if you will... and yes, it would make sense if there is only one connection... since Iowa confirmed disturbance, now i need to investigate further... pump is making noise, so i hope she working properly. Gonna yank those two top cooler hoses off, to see if there is coolant there.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, srm has two connections. Inlet/outlet if you will... and yes, it would make sense if there is only one connection... since Iowa confirmed disturbance, now i need to investigate further... pump is making noise, so i hope she working properly. Gonna yank those two top cooler hoses off, to see if there is coolant there

[Dasquade]

Well, srm has two connections. Inlet/outlet if you will... and yes, it would make sense if there is only one connection... since Iowa confirmed disturbance, now i need to investigate further... pump is making noise, so i hope she working properly. Gonna yank those two top cooler hoses off, to see if there is coolant there.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, srm has two connections. Inlet/outlet if you will... and yes, it would make sense if there is only one connection... since Iowa confirmed disturbance, now i need to investigate further... pump is making noise, so i hope she working properly. Gonna yank those two top cooler hoses off, to see if there is coolant there
Ah thanks for confirming the in/out lines on the srm setup. Thumbs up and see edit above, i indeed was refurring to those lines and the charge cooler aswell. Like said, bleeding the hx won't help get air out the charge cooler unit unless you pull vacum i think...

[lituoklis88]

Thats what im affraid off. Prolly giant air bubble in charge cooler

[Hofahome]

Silly, maybe. But for those who have SRM pumps installed: when you open the SRM coolant reservoir, do you visually see coolant flowing (fluid being disturbed in reservoir) , or does it appear still?
I installed everything up. Divorced the system, but now my only concern is that i hear the pump working, but there is no way for me to confirm that the coolant is flowing (besides talking it out to the street and logging temp), obviuosly it does not heat up at idle, for me to tell any difference in the upper or lower hoses. Any thoughts?

I know it is different setup but when I had a divorced setup on my b8 S4 I had to push the throttle to like 3k rpm before I could see the coolant running through the divorced reservoir.


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[lituoklis88]

Hofahoma,
Since its “divorced”, and not part of the engine cooling system. How would giving it gas help? From my understanding, the SRM emp pump maintains constant flow and is not adjustable in anyway?

[IowaRS7]

Hofahoma,
Since its “divorced”, and not part of the engine cooling system. How would giving it gas help? From my understanding, the SRM emp pump maintains constant flow and is not adjustable in anyway?

Correct, my pump is setup on the DRL power so the car doesn’t even have to be running to run the EMP pump.


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[kebabman]

Correct, my pump is setup on the DRL power so the car doesn’t even have to be running to run the EMP pump.


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What’s the power draw like on the SRM coolant pump?

[lituoklis88]

I want to say around ~17 amps. But dont quote me on it

[IowaRS7]

What’s the power draw like on the SRM coolant pump?

Not sure but it’s a decent amount, that is why I have it setup on DRL power wire so I can turn it off easy for flashing the ECU or other things during ACC power. Can also pull the inline fuse easy too.


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[lituoklis88]

Thats what im affraid off. Prolly giant air bubble in charge cooler

FIGURED IT OUT. There was a air bubble in the charge cooler that was being peski, in addition to that i found a hose that was a little bent that might have caused flow issues.

[Dasquade]

FIGURED IT OUT. There was a air bubble in the charge cooler that was being peski, in addition to that i found a hose that was a little bent that might have caused flow issues.
Nice you found him, so it was in the actual charge cooler unit after the throttle body right? Dont want to be the...told ya....but i suspected that was the throble spot since it is the highest point or at least location that has a chamber where air could collect without escaping. Mind me asking how you cleared it? Like said, recently vacum pulled mine (after i had swapped charge cooler pump) but still hear a squasing (water air gushing) type of noise in combination with soft pressure lines. Something tells me i also still have air in the charge cooler....too bad there isnt a simple bleed screw on the charge cooler header.

[lituoklis88]

Nice you found him, so it was in the actual charge cooler unit after the throttle body right? Dont want to be the...told ya....but i suspected that was the throble spot since it is the highest point or at least location that has a chamber where air could collect without escaping. Mind me asking how you cleared it? Like said, recently vacum pulled mine (after i had swapped charge cooler pump) but still hear a squasing (water air gushing) type of noise in combination with soft pressure lines. Something tells me i also still have air in the charge cooler....too bad there isnt a simple bleed screw on the charge cooler header.

Well i was gonna build an adapter to the 3" srm tank so i could use my vacuum tool. But couldn't wait, so i just pulled of the hoses connected to the charge cooler (crimped them of a bit lower, so no coolant runs out), and filled the cooler with coolant (dont ask me how :D, lets just say there was plenty of spills). Reconnected everything, and was running the car/pump for awhile, and looks like it worked out the rest of the air out itself... The coolant reservoir now has a vortex going on inside :D

[jazzyjay18]

For test scenarios..

1. Stock cooling (base line)
2a. HX only
or
2b. CWA-100 pump only
3. CWA-100 & HX

Between 2a and 2b, which is more desirable test scenario? I was hoping not to uninstall anything unless I need to but I suppose I could, it's just going to waste coolant and time.

I think one person kind of recommended 2b but does anyone have the data for these scenarios

[kebabman]

I think one person kind of recommended 2b but does anyone have the data for these scenarios

I did 2b on my RS7 it made little to no difference tbh. Given a second go around I would skip all this upgraded pump / hx stuff and just go straight for W/M injection, much more effective and cheaper, sorts the problem right out with no additional mods needed.

If you’re going E85 then of course that changes things, but I don’t have easy access to E85. For pump or race gas WMI is the way forward imo.

[ericw.]

I'm hoping to have time this weekend to install JHM's new heat exchanger and the CWA100-3.. Car is still in the shop for PPF though.


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[MolonLabe300]

Nice! How'd the install go?

[ericw.]

Nice! How'd the install go?

Car ended up getting stuck at the wrap shop over the weekend while we waited for more paint protective film material, so I wasn't able to install as hoped. I'll install this weekend instead.

[jazzyjay18]

Does anyone have an coolant flow diagram for the S7.

[ebolaS6]

I’m new to this how can I get a hold of this pump and harness cash in hand

[tabio42]

I’m new to this how can I get a hold of this pump and harness cash in hand

PM sent


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[ebolaS6]

PM sent


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Checked


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[The Infiltrator]

I'm hoping to have time this weekend to install JHM's new heat exchanger and the CWA100-3.. Car is still in the shop for PPF though.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200111/61db576f7d399804b194f659b4dc9416.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200111/91886e294c7aa86cfdd8794a8c778a16.jpg
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You aren't really going to install that are you? That thing looks like some kids made it in their garage from random pieces of metal laying around.

[ericw.]

You aren't really going to install that are you? That thing looks like some kids made it in their garage from random pieces of metal laying around.Would you change your opinion if I painted it black like MercRacing does? Lol I bet if I had it engraved with an SRM logo, you'd jerk off to it... it's already been installed, I posted a diy article on it that you can search for if you desire.

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[The Infiltrator]

Would you change your opinion if I painted it black like MercRacing does? Lol I bet if I had it engraved with an SRM logo, you'd jerk off to it... it's already been installed, I posted a diy article on it that you can search for if you desire.

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You can't hide garbage man. No matter how much you try and dress it up. I don't care for SRM but they're the only ones with short pipes for the extra power. Mercracing would be a better choice than this for quality. I'll be going with AMS when the time comes for a real setup.

[ericw.]

You can't hide garbage man. No matter how much you try and dress it up. I don't care for SRM but they're the only ones with short pipes for the extra power. Mercracing would be a better choice than this for quality. I'll be going with AMS when the time comes for a real setup.

What makes this garbage? It's literally the same as merc racing, just not black... I've had both Merc Racing and JHM's HX side by side and sold the MercRacing. The only difference is in the bleed valve and JHM has undeniably a better mounting bracket that makes installation easier. Otherwise they're both quad pass cores and almost identical. You're reaching hard on this one, likely another JHM hater because their car was faster than yours at some point in the past.

Which car of theirs was it that broke your heart? Their world record fastest b5, b6, or b7?

AMS isn't quad pass so you're just paying more for less but I'm not going to be a dickhead and tell you how to mod your car. You do you.

[The Infiltrator]

What makes this garbage? It's literally the same as merc racing, just not black... I've had both Merc Racing and JHM's HX side by side and sold the MercRacing. The only difference is in the bleed valve and JHM has undeniably a better mounting bracket that makes installation easier. Otherwise they're both quad pass cores and almost identical. You're reaching hard on this one, likely another JHM hater because their car was faster than yours at some point in the past.

Which car of theirs was it that broke your heart? Their world record fastest b5, b6, or b7?

AMS isn't quad pass so you're just paying more for less but I'm not going to be a dickhead and tell you how to mod your car. You do you.

You do you and enjoy buying multiple parts with little to no return on cooling.

Byeeee

[ericw.]

Haven't done your research I see. You do you and enjoy buying multiple parts with little to no return on cooling.

Haven't done your research I see... There's little to no return on cooling upgrades period. OEM front HX isn't the main source of heat soak on this platform. Your bottleneck is the charge air cooler. So go ahead and spend 3x the price for no gain, and log it for me too while you're at it so we can have a good laugh.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MmQAAOSwY7tadlRM/s-l640.jpg

[Dasquade]

You can't hide garbage man. No matter how much you try and dress it up. I don't care for SRM but they're the only ones with short pipes for the extra power. Mercracing would be a better choice than this for quality. I'll be going with AMS when the time comes for a real setup.
Little correction:
*MRC made carbon inlet pipes that afaik are simular ID as SRM's that also mount on instead of inside the turbo's. Released 1-2 years ago...D
*SRM indeed has their billet true flow inlet pipes (cheapest of them all).
*DMT racing released their version of true flow inlet pipes last month, cheaper looking mounting elbows and slightly more priced.

Anyway, relax guys :) take a chill pill...oh oh, speaking off beside cooling upgrading, yes helps a little, i do believe and hope radiator fans (like the chill pill mod or done with ECU tune like DS1 offers) will help maybe even more in the summer when cruising or between pulls.
Like mentioned before, done the CWA100-3 mod with swtich, not seeing much difference tbh (maybe a 5 at max 10°C drop). Like Sean mentioned, it is nice the CWA100-3 works on the stock harnass/powersupply but it ain't up for the task. SO divorce the system and/or upgrade to bigger standalone pump.

[The Infiltrator]

Little correction:
*MRC made carbon inlet pipes that afaik are simular ID as SRM's that also mount on instead of inside the turbo's. Released 1-2 years ago...D
*SRM indeed has their billet true flow inlet pipes (cheapest of them all).
*DMT racing released their version of true flow inlet pipes last month, cheaper looking mounting elbows and slightly more priced.

Anyway, relax guys :) take a chill pill...oh oh, speaking off beside cooling upgrading, yes helps a little, i do believe and hope radiator fans (like the chill pill mod or done with ECU tune like DS1 offers) will help maybe even more in the summer when cruising or between pulls.
Like mentioned before, done the CWA100-3 mod with swtich, not seeing much difference tbh (maybe a 5 at max 10°C drop). Like Sean mentioned, it is nice the CWA100-3 works on the stock harnass/powersupply but it ain't up for the task. SO divorce the system and/or upgrade to bigger standalone pump.

Oh I tried to get ahold of MRC for those nice carbon inlets. No luck.

[MolonLabe300]

I honestly don't understand the point of the cooler under the hood. If it is the bottle neck could it just be bypassed? Maybe I should have posted this in the dumb question thread.

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[Dasquade]

I honestly don't understand the point of the cooler under the hood. If it is the bottle neck could it just be bypassed? Maybe I should have posted this in the dumb question thread.

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Meh in stock config it does what it is suppose to do and actually suprised it does it so well for the size (knowing what the IAT's before charge cooler are and after). Sadely once you tune or go bigger turbo's things get much hotter and if you don't enlarge the cooling abilities (bigger HX, more coolant volume, more pumping...) your system no longer can follow up. Divorcing the system tend to help a lot i think...because in current setup the engine first ask to heat up your coolant so engine block get warm so it can operate fine...but once it gets 97C° (for give me, forgot at what temps the thermostat opens again) your charge cooler is better off with way cooler coolant i suppose. Issue is...since it is all small it needs lots of fresh outside air venting through the radiator, hence why you heatsoak that quickly once it is warm and you are driving slow. Drive faster (without going to the red line) and IAt's drop again because the radiators are fed with cooler air. That is bit why i'm looking forward to add fan controle (be it with DS1 or standalone module). Again not perfect but it helps in combination with the other things i did. Water/meth helps extingish those hot IAT's but not so user friendly imho for a daily and always brings danger if it fails. If you want to go BIG turbo's...only option is to go air-air.

[tabio42]

I honestly don't understand the point of the cooler under the hood. If it is the bottle neck could it just be bypassed? Maybe I should have posted this in the dumb question thread.

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You have to have some intercooling. Otherwise your intake temps would be ridiculous. You could potentially get rid of it and run methanol as your intercooling........


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[MolonLabe300]

I should have clarified, what's the point of it when there's 1 in the bumper?
You have to have some intercooling. Otherwise your intake temps would be ridiculous. You could potentially get rid of it and run methanol as your intercooling........


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[15 Phantom S6]

I should have clarified, what's the point of it when there's 2 in the bumper?

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The intercooler in the engine bay cools the air going into the motor and the heat exchanger in front the car cools the coolant that flows through the intercooler..

[ProSkier]

Does anyone have a link to a installation / write-up of installing fans in front of the heat exchanger to draw the heat out? Haven't been able to find anything. Thanks.

[skiptowncat]

Can someone confirm this is the correct direct replacement and will I need a harness for it?

https://tecomotive.com/store/en/water-pumps/pierburg-cwa100-3-water-pump

Never mind, got the correct one with harness coming tomorrow [wrench]

[skiptowncat]

OK fitted the pump and now getting a running dry code. Best way to bleed the system without a pressure bleeder?

EDIT, system bled itself