4.0TT Blown Turbo Poll

[The Infiltrator]

It may be a good idea to use an oil/oil-filter change interval at maximum 5k miles interval.

I have moved from 5k miles oil/filter change interval to 3k miles oil/filter change interval.

It's not so much a turbo quality issue, it's mostly a oil supply issue, because of the turbo oil supply screen(design defect) getting plugged (also possibly the turbo oil supply check valve leaking).

The turbos use journal sleeve bushings, which requires a continuous layer of clean oil to prevent metal to metal contact, when the shaft is spinning. Loss of oil pressure at the turbos can lead to rapid failure.

It would be nice if there was an oil pressure sensor (and monitor) on the turbo oil supply after the screen.

Nice article: Turbocharger Failure Analysis: What Went Wrong and How to Fix It (https://www.musclecardiy.com/performance/turbocharger-failure-analysis-went-wrong-fix/)

I know and I've read up on this issue before I got the car. I change my oil at 5k anyway and I plan to change factory oil out at 2k. It just seems like a lot of these turbos are just terrible build quality and yes the screen doesn't help by starving the turbos oil supply. I'd like to see a lawsuit so they start replacing the turbos like in other models.

[kaploww]

The turbo design is no different than any other journal bearing turbo. It’s 60 year old, rock solid reliable technology.

Oil starvation due to plugged screens is the only issue here.

[The Infiltrator]

The turbo design is no different than any other journal bearing turbo. It’s 60 year old, rock solid reliable technology.

Oil starvation due to plugged screens is the only issue here.

Hmm

[kaploww]

Dude it’s a piece of metal spinning at >80,000rpm inside a brass bushing protected by a thin film of pressurized oil.

You take away the oil, and they fail instantly.

It’s not the Turbos fault Audi designed a screen that plugs up with oil sludge, and stops the flow of oil to the turbo.

You don’t see these failures in other vehicles because they don’t run screens.

[daytona rs7]

i think its been asked before, but has anyone considered using no screen? or modifying one with larger holes?

i might weigh out the option to have some build up in lines rather than 10k+ repair because of clogged screen.

[The Infiltrator]

Dude it’s a piece of metal spinning at >80,000rpm inside a brass bushing protected by a thin film of pressurized oil.

You take away the oil, and they fail instantly.

It’s not the Turbos fault Audi designed a screen that plugs up with oil sludge, and stops the flow of oil to the turbo.

You don’t see these failures in other vehicles because they don’t run screens.

Lol, I'm not doubting you man and you're right about it. I just can't believe the system they designed and how flawed it is with these screens and killing these turbos. I was just wondering if it was the turbo and trying to get more info like you gave me

[OlyS6]

i think its been asked before, but has anyone considered using no screen? or modifying one with larger holes?

i might weigh out the option to have some build up in lines rather than 10k+ repair because of clogged screen.

Good question- sadly, the lines are also a PITA to replace. That said, I’m not sure how much the screen’s intent is to keep the lines clear vs keeping coked up oil from getting to the bearings in the turbos.


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[s4nicetry]

who can update the poll to include years past 2016? I'm in a 2018 and curious what those fail rates might look like, which by the way, mine are not blown with 2.5k miles

Tried to update the poll but wasn't able too. If you look at the 2016's that posted, only 4 out of 49 failed. I doubt there would be anything really to show for the 2018's.


The turbo design is no different than any other journal bearing turbo. It’s 60 year old, rock solid reliable technology.

Oil starvation due to plugged screens is the only issue here.

Agreed, starvation seems to be the problem.

[lisovoy]

+1 failure on my 2013 S8 @ 112k miles [stock, recalls done, 10k service is dumb and I admit it now, drive like a maniac ]. Same complaint as most of you in last 13 pages of this thread.. Coasting for an hour, pull over at gas station, hard to start, rpm go below 700 and it chokes :( I was in rush to a project, so my dumb ass pulled out vcds HEX-NET to see what is the code, had no updates on RODs so couldnt tell definitively, erased all codes in hopes it runs againg... One week and 500$ later Audi mechanic says its a Turbo, 8800$ repair quoted. Im dangerous enough to do my own repairs, no thanks I said. Looking at cold side compressor and housing noticed scoring on R turbo (uneven), both appear dry and wobble 1,5-2 mm and come in and out 1mm, thats all. SO my question is how do you determine if its a failure??? (not an expert myself) Besides updating the separator, valves and seals I thinking to modify that strainer or removing it completely. Talked to bratva and they quoted me for 300-500$ repair at turbo factory in East Europe. Is it worth waiting 1-2 month or just buy plug and play cores and covers? will continue with disassembly to look at hot side..
How do I upload pictures?

[lisovoy]

This work?
https://imgur.com/kFpCVRO
https://imgur.com/9y5YmEI
https://imgur.com/bSW7QYz
https://imgur.com/kbF7LTy
https://imgur.com/pGDkhgF
https://imgur.com/kFpCVRO
https://imgur.com/9y5YmEI
https://imgur.com/bSW7QYz
https://imgur.com/kbF7LTy
https://imgur.com/pGDkhgF

[bhamcarnut]

Didn’t show up in the thread. Here ya go. 112712112713112714112715112716


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[lisovoy]

Thanks uploading.

After further fingerbanging I can say that L turbo that does not appear to be scored is the one that failed, because side-to-side play is 2mm, gap between housing and fan is bigger and uneven.. and most of all the whole housing is evenly grinded by blades so its hard to see by untrained eye at first

Update.. Hot side turbine broke off the shaft, mangled things :/

112742112740112741

Do you guys have any suggestions for any other preventive maintenance I should do at this point, with shreds and all??

[Hofahome]

Thanks uploading.

After further fingerbanging I can say that L turbo that does not appear to be scored is the one that failed, because side-to-side play is 2mm, gap between housing and fan is bigger and uneven.. and most of all the whole housing is evenly grinded by blades so its hard to see by untrained eye at first

Update.. Hot side turbine broke off the shaft, mangled things :/

112742112740112741


Damn.
Fingerbanging hahaha! Good one


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[wwhan]

Update.. Hot side turbine broke off the shaft, mangled things :/



Strong fingers, with a bang

[wwhan]

.....I thinking to modify that strainer or removing it completely....

Did you read this article? https://www.musclecardiy.com/performance/turbocharger-failure-analysis-went-wrong-fix/

"Contaminated Lube Oil

If neither wheel shows signs of impact trauma in the inducer area or other form of wheel failure, continue the disassembly. Carefully disassemble the remaining components and be cautious not to clean off the parts as you dismantle the CHRA portion of the turbo.

Lay the parts out and analyze them closely, looking at all forms of wear and heat discoloration. Remember that the number-one failure of turbochargers is contaminated lube oil. This is caused most frequently by either severe environments where there is a large amount of dirt in the air or by infrequent oil changes. In either case, the engine’s lubrication system goes into filter bypass mode where the filter assembly is so dirty that oil pressure builds up and bypasses the filter to avoid rapid and catastrophic engine failure.

These photos illustrate examples of bearing system components that have failed due to contaminated lube oil. Note that in such cases it’s likely that damage will be seen on either or both wheels, but mainly in the contour areas where the bearings have worn to such a severe degree that allows the wheels to come in contact with their respective housing. This is what caused total turbo failure and the need to remove the turbo from the engine."

"The journal bearings will typically show obvious markings when contaminated lube oil is at fault. The heavier scoring will be noticed on the bearing OD because of the entrapment of larger particles. If contaminated lube oil is the cause of failure, you’ll typically see some level of scoring on all internal bearing surfaces."

[brilliant_black]

At this point can ECS, APR, or anyone make a more free flowing oil strainer? I’m sure they’ll sell quite a few.




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[MadAboutCars]

At this point can ECS, APR, or anyone make a more free flowing oil strainer? I’m sure they’ll sell quite a few.




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It's a catch 22 when it comes to how much flow and how big the particles you want to allow through to the turbos. I think even Audi's latest one would be more biased to flow over particle size.

[s4nicetry]

At this point can ECS, APR, or anyone make a more free flowing oil strainer? I’m sure they’ll sell quite a few.




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I haven't heard of any failures due to blockage on Audi's latest revision to that screen. Pretty new though, so it will take some time before we know if it solved the issue.

[wwhan]

At this point can ECS, APR, or anyone make a more free flowing oil strainer? I’m sure they’ll sell quite a few....

Having a sensor to monitor oil pressure supply to the turbos after the sreen would be more interesting.

The new Optimized oil strainer 079115175G might work fine, it is the "Production Solution" as stated in the Turbo TSB 2044640 revision 3 and 4.

"Production Solution
Optimized oil strainer 079115175G for oil supply lines to turbochargers in the cover in the inner valley of engine. The oil strainer and check valve 079103175C must always be replaced to ensure proper oil flow to the turbochargers."

What company wants to take the liability, if a proposed new screen made reliability worse?

[daytona rs7]

...... Remember that the number-one failure of turbochargers is contaminated lube oil. This is caused most frequently by either severe environments where there is a large amount of dirt in the air or by infrequent oil changes. In either case, the engine’s lubrication system goes into filter bypass mode where the filter assembly is so dirty that oil pressure builds up and bypasses the filter to avoid rapid and catastrophic engine failure.....

am i reading this correct? so when oil is dirty, the engines default is to no longer use a filter and pump that dirty oil through the engine? at which point the only source of filtration before the turbo is that screen?

no wonder it clogs easy.


Having a sensor to monitor oil pressure supply to the turbos after the sreen would be more interesting.

The new Optimized oil strainer 079115175G might work fine, it is the "Production Solution" as stated in the Turbo TSB 2044640 revision 3 and 4.

"Production Solution
Optimized oil strainer 079115175G for oil supply lines to turbochargers in the cover in the inner valley of engine. The oil strainer and check valve 079103175C must always be replaced to ensure proper oil flow to the turbochargers."

What company wants to take the liability, if a proposed new screen made reliability worse?

there has been 6 revisions to the screen already. no one said make reliability worse, but there really is no guarantee that it is solved either. for all we know in another couple months there is a "H" part number screen, with an updated TSB including MY18.

6 attempts (5 failed) doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy that they actually solved the issue.

[phaphaphooey]

am i reading this correct? so when oil is dirty, the engines default is to no longer use a filter and pump that dirty oil through the engine? at which point the only source of filtration before the turbo is that screen?

no wonder it clogs easy.



That is the way essentially all modern engines work. To protect the engine from oil starvation if the oil filter gets too full of junk such that oil flow is dangerously restricted then the filter is bypassed and the engine gets dirty oil. The thinking is that dirty oil is better than no oil at all. That is the primary reason why changing your oil filter at appropriate intervals is so important.

[rhinoboymtl]

Did you read this article? https://www.musclecardiy.com/performance/turbocharger-failure-analysis-went-wrong-fix/

"Contaminated Lube Oil

If neither wheel shows signs of impact trauma in the inducer area or other form of wheel failure, continue the disassembly. Carefully disassemble the remaining components and be cautious not to clean off the parts as you dismantle the CHRA portion of the turbo.

Lay the parts out and analyze them closely, looking at all forms of wear and heat discoloration. Remember that the number-one failure of turbochargers is contaminated lube oil. This is caused most frequently by either severe environments where there is a large amount of dirt in the air or by infrequent oil changes. In either case, the engine’s lubrication system goes into filter bypass mode where the filter assembly is so dirty that oil pressure builds up and bypasses the filter to avoid rapid and catastrophic engine failure.

These photos illustrate examples of bearing system components that have failed due to contaminated lube oil. Note that in such cases it’s likely that damage will be seen on either or both wheels, but mainly in the contour areas where the bearings have worn to such a severe degree that allows the wheels to come in contact with their respective housing. This is what caused total turbo failure and the need to remove the turbo from the engine."

"The journal bearings will typically show obvious markings when contaminated lube oil is at fault. The heavier scoring will be noticed on the bearing OD because of the entrapment of larger particles. If contaminated lube oil is the cause of failure, you’ll typically see some level of scoring on all internal bearing surfaces."

Yeah interesting article. I’d say based on that mine fall into the “lack of oil/contaminated oil” category. Which makes perfect sense based on the way my oil screen looked. Definitely have some wear on the shaft in the journal bearing section, catastrophic bearing failure and snapped shaft at the turbine wheel

112967
112968112969112970

Unfortunately after I pulled the car in the garage when the failure occurred I didn’t immediately drain the oil while it was warm. So I’m thinking I should drop the pan before refilling just to make sure all the sludge is out to avoid immediately clogging the new screen.

[spdemon91]

^ Snapped shaft... [o_o] Sorry for your loss. That sucks. Had mine opened up today to replace oil screen, check valve & oil separator as preventative maintenance. Pictures are attached. Almost zero play. The left side has maybe a millimeter of play, if that, and there appears to be a faint single score mark on the housing. The right side was solid but does have oil residue which I understand is normal due to the PCV system. Tomorrow they are opening her up to do the rest of the job. Will report back with findings...

113040113041113042113043113044

[Hofahome]

^ Snapped shaft... [o_o] Sorry for your loss. That sucks. Had mine opened up today to replace oil screen, check valve & oil separator as preventative maintenance. Pictures are attached. Almost zero play. The left side has maybe a millimeter of play, if that, and there appears to be a faint single score mark on the housing. The right side was solid but does have oil residue which I understand is normal due to the PCV system. Tomorrow they are opening her up to do the rest of the job. Will report back with findings...

113040113041113042113043113044

Interesting to see the pitting / degredation of the compressor blades from the oil. Probably not drastic enough to cause major issues but can’t be good either. Makes me want to install a catch can between the oil separator and turbo inlet pipe.


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[ichi d]

Just updated the pcv check valve and oil screen. My car is a 13 and the screen was f version. Does this mean it was replaced once before or was the f version the original part that was installed in 2013?

[Frenetic]

I wonder if this oil-screen design is systemic in all recent Audi engines with turbos, including the recent 2.9L and 3.0L V6 found in a lot of vehicles. These engines might be new enough that the issue just hasn't cropped up yet?

[ArizonaA6]

Just updated the pcv check valve and oil screen. My car is a 12 and the screen was f version. Does this mean it was replaced once before or was the f version the original part that was installed in 2013?

I Just checked mine that came out of my 2013 S6. It is an "F" version.

[ke116ngc]

Joining the blown turbo club as of Jan 2019.

2013 S6, 52K, both turbos shot. Stage 2 APR since 20K. Now I’m stage 3 with RS turbos, SRM intake, and Alpha intercooler. 10k interval changes on oil since I purchased it with 16K miles on the clock. Nothing was covered by CPO warranty from the dealer, 100% out of pocket costs.

I hated writing that big of a check just to get my car back working again, especially since it was unexpected. But...I LOVE The badass stage 3 beast that I have now. Just don’t tell my wife. LOL


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[ichi d]

I Just checked mine that came out of my 2013 S6. It is an "F" version.

Thanks.

[spdemon91]

*** CONCLUSION *** Preventative maintenance is complete. Thank you to all who contributed their knowledge and input. I appreciate it. Since I have benefited from everyone’s knowledge on this forum and other forums, I wanted to provide a detailed write-up on my experience from start to finish as it may help others in determining how to proceed.

CAR HISTORY – My car is a 2013 S8 which was owned by a corporation in Maryland from May 2013 to June 2017. They put 69,000 miles on it (17,250 annually) so probably lots of highway miles. They changed oil initially at 5,000 miles and at every 10,000 miles thereafter. In June 2017, the car was auctioned to a dealer in Easton, PA. He added another 5,000 miles to the car. I purchased from him in Sept 2018 when the car had just under 75,000 miles. Around 76,500, I did the Liqui Moly 2037 Pro-line Engine Flush prior to changing the oil. The oil came out black as tar so the flush definitely cleaned something.

CONCERNS – Around this time, I became very concerned due to the large number of 2013 4.0Ts blowing with far fewer miles than mine. The engine flush also became a concern as I thought it may have loosened material which could have become lodged in the fine mesh oil screen. Considering Audi redesigned the oil screen, check valve and oil separator to address certain design problems, I decided to have these parts replaced as preventative maintenance but wanted assistance from Audi.

AOA & DEALER RESPONSE – I took the car to my local Audi dealer where I expressed my concerns and requested assistance. Initially I was met with resistance since the car was beyond warranty and purchased used from a non-Audi dealer. I persisted and premised my request on Audi’s acknowledgement of faulty designs in the car’s oil system as noted under TSB # 2044640 which documents the issue of blown turbos and Audi’s redesign of the oil screen and check valve. In addition, I noted TSB # 2044644 which documents the issue of the oil separator failing and Audi’s subsequent redesign. After my initial discussion with the Service Manager, I followed up with an email clarifying my position. Here’s an excerpt… “When I purchased my S8, I was prepared for above-average maintenance costs based on the assumption I would be owning a superior well-engineered machine. Since owning my Audi however and reviewing the forums, I have come to learn of several very costly issues due to poor design, namely, the restrictive oil screen leading to potential turbo failure (TSB 2044640), oil air separator failure (TSB 2044644), 1k/3k vibration due to downpipe design (TSB 2036392), and coolant leaks (TSB 2036167), to name a few. Regarding the biggest problem which is the restrictive oil screen, Audi is well aware of the problem and has redesigned the screen to address the defect. In my opinion, Audi should stand behind their product and assist their customers in making this right especially considering the premiums paid for their "S" model cars. I am willing to pay for the parts to have the job done and I don't think asking Audi to cover the labor cost to replace the oil screen with the revised part as goodwill to a first-time Audi owner is unreasonable.” AOA’s response was agreement to cover 50% of the labor & parts to replace the noted parts. The Service Manager noted this is rare for AOA to cover preventative maintenance. It then took many back-and-forth communications with the dealer regarding the parts and the dealership mark-ups which I took issue with. Ultimately the Service Manager agreed to provide all parts at cost which allowed for the replacement of all associated gaskets, o-rings, etc. as outlined in both TSBs in addition to the revised oil screen, check valve and costly oil separator. They also changed the oil and filter as part of the service. All-in negotiated cost to me was $1,000 plus tax which all things considered, I believe was fair.

CONDITION – Parts were replaced at 78,000 miles. Left side turbo had maybe a millimeter of play, if that, and there appeared to be a faint single score mark on the housing. In speaking with the mechanic, he indicated turbos appear fine and he had seen much worse. Right side turbo was solid but does have oil residue which I understand is normal due to the PCV system. The suspect oil screen had teeny bits of grit in it. Upon initial inspection, the screen appeared fine but upon very close inspection, you can see there are particles of what appear to be dried oil clogged in the filter. I can definitely see how this mesh could accumulate more bits and pieces and become completely clogged over time. I cleaned it with some degreaser and attached pictures so you can see the progression from what the screen looked like 1.) when it came out; 2.) after an initial wipe-down; 3.) after my first cleaning effort with dawn dish detergent; and 4.) after being degreased and wiped down. Regarding gaskets, all appeared to be in good condition with no unusual wear or warping so I would think that the initial bare-bone list of core gaskets would have been sufficient to do the job.

FINAL ANALYSIS – The oil screen looked much better than I anticipated considering what others have posted. Based on this, I suspect that the engine flush I performed 1,500 miles prior may have helped to clean the oil screen. I would consider doing the flush again maybe after another 50,000 miles. This coupled with a more rigorous oil change regimen every 3,500-5,000 miles should help keep the engine nice and clean. Regarding the preventative maintenance, I am glad I had it done for peace of mind. For those of you who are capable of doing on your own, I would recommend it. For others, dealer cost without any goodwill for an A8/S8 to replace the oil screen, check valve, oil separator all associated gaskets and fittings per TSBs, and change oil and filter was approx. $2,250. Had I taken to my general mechanic, assuming purchase of parts at wholesale cost, I would have probably spent around $1,100 including labor. Feel better having it done by Audi-specific mechanic and finally I am back to enjoying my car without fear of it blowing up.

Hope this write-up helps others. Best of luck to everyone. Relevant pictures are attached.

[mhoran89]

*** CONCLUSION *** Preventative maintenance is complete. Thank you to all who contributed their knowledge and input. I appreciate it. Since I have benefited from everyone’s knowledge on this forum and other forums, I wanted to provide a detailed write-up on my experience from start to finish as it may help others in determining how to proceed.

CAR HISTORY – My car is a 2013 S8 which was owned by a corporation in Maryland from May 2013 to June 2017. They put 69,000 miles on it (17,250 annually) so probably lots of highway miles. They changed oil initially at 5,000 miles and at every 10,000 miles thereafter. In June 2017, the car was auctioned to a dealer in Easton, PA. He added another 5,000 miles to the car. I purchased from him in Sept 2018 when the car had just under 75,000 miles. Around 76,500, I did the Liqui Moly 2037 Pro-line Engine Flush prior to changing the oil. The oil came out black as tar so the flush definitely cleaned something.

CONCERNS – Around this time, I became very concerned due to the large number of 2013 4.0Ts blowing with far fewer miles than mine. The engine flush also became a concern as I thought it may have loosened material which could have become lodged in the fine mesh oil screen. Considering Audi redesigned the oil screen, check valve and oil separator to address certain design problems, I decided to have these parts replaced as preventative maintenance but wanted assistance from Audi.

AOA & DEALER RESPONSE – I took the car to my local Audi dealer where I expressed my concerns and requested assistance. Initially I was met with resistance since the car was beyond warranty and purchased used from a non-Audi dealer. I persisted and premised my request on Audi’s acknowledgement of faulty designs in the car’s oil system as noted under TSB # 2044640 which documents the issue of blown turbos and Audi’s redesign of the oil screen and check valve. In addition, I noted TSB # 2044644 which documents the issue of the oil separator failing and Audi’s subsequent redesign. After my initial discussion with the Service Manager, I followed up with an email clarifying my position. Here’s an excerpt… “When I purchased my S8, I was prepared for above-average maintenance costs based on the assumption I would be owning a superior well-engineered machine. Since owning my Audi however and reviewing the forums, I have come to learn of several very costly issues due to poor design, namely, the restrictive oil screen leading to potential turbo failure (TSB 2044640), oil air separator failure (TSB 2044644), 1k/3k vibration due to downpipe design (TSB 2036392), and coolant leaks (TSB 2036167), to name a few. Regarding the biggest problem which is the restrictive oil screen, Audi is well aware of the problem and has redesigned the screen to address the defect. In my opinion, Audi should stand behind their product and assist their customers in making this right especially considering the premiums paid for their "S" model cars. I am willing to pay for the parts to have the job done and I don't think asking Audi to cover the labor cost to replace the oil screen with the revised part as goodwill to a first-time Audi owner is unreasonable.” AOA’s response was agreement to cover 50% of the labor & parts to replace the noted parts. The Service Manager noted this is rare for AOA to cover preventative maintenance. It then took many back-and-forth communications with the dealer regarding the parts and the dealership mark-ups which I took issue with. Ultimately the Service Manager agreed to provide all parts at cost which allowed for the replacement of all associated gaskets, o-rings, etc. as outlined in both TSBs in addition to the revised oil screen, check valve and costly oil separator. They also changed the oil and filter as part of the service. All-in negotiated cost to me was $1,000 plus tax which all things considered, I believe was fair.

CONDITION – Parts were replaced at 78,000 miles. Left side turbo had maybe a millimeter of play, if that, and there appeared to be a faint single score mark on the housing. In speaking with the mechanic, he indicated turbos appear fine and he had seen much worse. Right side turbo was solid but does have oil residue which I understand is normal due to the PCV system. The suspect oil screen had teeny bits of grit in it. Upon initial inspection, the screen appeared fine but upon very close inspection, you can see there are particles of what appear to be dried oil clogged in the filter. I can definitely see how this mesh could accumulate more bits and pieces and become completely clogged over time. I cleaned it with some degreaser and attached pictures so you can see the progression from what the screen looked like 1.) when it came out; 2.) after an initial wipe-down; 3.) after my first cleaning effort with dawn dish detergent; and 4.) after being degreased and wiped down. Regarding gaskets, all appeared to be in good condition with no unusual wear or warping so I would think that the initial bare-bone list of core gaskets would have been sufficient to do the job.

FINAL ANALYSIS – The oil screen looked much better than I anticipated considering what others have posted. Based on this, I suspect that the engine flush I performed 1,500 miles prior may have helped to clean the oil screen. I would consider doing the flush again maybe after another 50,000 miles. This coupled with a more rigorous oil change regimen every 3,500-5,000 miles should help keep the engine nice and clean. Regarding the preventative maintenance, I am glad I had it done for peace of mind. For those of you who are capable of doing on your own, I would recommend it. For others, dealer cost without any goodwill for an A8/S8 to replace the oil screen, check valve, oil separator all associated gaskets and fittings per TSBs, and change oil and filter was approx. $2,250. Had I taken to my general mechanic, assuming purchase of parts at wholesale cost, I would have probably spent around $1,100 including labor. Feel better having it done by Audi-specific mechanic and finally I am back to enjoying my car without fear of it blowing up.

Hope this write-up helps others. Best of luck to everyone. Relevant pictures are attached.

Great post and glad AOA helped you out! Thanks for posting this up.

[s4nicetry]

*** CONCLUSION *** Preventative maintenance is complete. Thank you to all who contributed their knowledge and input. I appreciate it. Since I have benefited from everyone’s knowledge on this forum and other forums, I wanted to provide a detailed write-up on my experience from start to finish as it may help others in determining how to proceed.

CAR HISTORY – My car is a 2013 S8 which was owned by a corporation in Maryland from May 2013 to June 2017. They put 69,000 miles on it (17,250 annually) so probably lots of highway miles. They changed oil initially at 5,000 miles and at every 10,000 miles thereafter. In June 2017, the car was auctioned to a dealer in Easton, PA. He added another 5,000 miles to the car. I purchased from him in Sept 2018 when the car had just under 75,000 miles. Around 76,500, I did the Liqui Moly 2037 Pro-line Engine Flush prior to changing the oil. The oil came out black as tar so the flush definitely cleaned something.

CONCERNS – Around this time, I became very concerned due to the large number of 2013 4.0Ts blowing with far fewer miles than mine. The engine flush also became a concern as I thought it may have loosened material which could have become lodged in the fine mesh oil screen. Considering Audi redesigned the oil screen, check valve and oil separator to address certain design problems, I decided to have these parts replaced as preventative maintenance but wanted assistance from Audi.

AOA & DEALER RESPONSE – I took the car to my local Audi dealer where I expressed my concerns and requested assistance. Initially I was met with resistance since the car was beyond warranty and purchased used from a non-Audi dealer. I persisted and premised my request on Audi’s acknowledgement of faulty designs in the car’s oil system as noted under TSB # 2044640 which documents the issue of blown turbos and Audi’s redesign of the oil screen and check valve. In addition, I noted TSB # 2044644 which documents the issue of the oil separator failing and Audi’s subsequent redesign. After my initial discussion with the Service Manager, I followed up with an email clarifying my position. Here’s an excerpt… “When I purchased my S8, I was prepared for above-average maintenance costs based on the assumption I would be owning a superior well-engineered machine. Since owning my Audi however and reviewing the forums, I have come to learn of several very costly issues due to poor design, namely, the restrictive oil screen leading to potential turbo failure (TSB 2044640), oil air separator failure (TSB 2044644), 1k/3k vibration due to downpipe design (TSB 2036392), and coolant leaks (TSB 2036167), to name a few. Regarding the biggest problem which is the restrictive oil screen, Audi is well aware of the problem and has redesigned the screen to address the defect. In my opinion, Audi should stand behind their product and assist their customers in making this right especially considering the premiums paid for their "S" model cars. I am willing to pay for the parts to have the job done and I don't think asking Audi to cover the labor cost to replace the oil screen with the revised part as goodwill to a first-time Audi owner is unreasonable.” AOA’s response was agreement to cover 50% of the labor & parts to replace the noted parts. The Service Manager noted this is rare for AOA to cover preventative maintenance. It then took many back-and-forth communications with the dealer regarding the parts and the dealership mark-ups which I took issue with. Ultimately the Service Manager agreed to provide all parts at cost which allowed for the replacement of all associated gaskets, o-rings, etc. as outlined in both TSBs in addition to the revised oil screen, check valve and costly oil separator. They also changed the oil and filter as part of the service. All-in negotiated cost to me was $1,000 plus tax which all things considered, I believe was fair.

CONDITION – Parts were replaced at 78,000 miles. Left side turbo had maybe a millimeter of play, if that, and there appeared to be a faint single score mark on the housing. In speaking with the mechanic, he indicated turbos appear fine and he had seen much worse. Right side turbo was solid but does have oil residue which I understand is normal due to the PCV system. The suspect oil screen had teeny bits of grit in it. Upon initial inspection, the screen appeared fine but upon very close inspection, you can see there are particles of what appear to be dried oil clogged in the filter. I can definitely see how this mesh could accumulate more bits and pieces and become completely clogged over time. I cleaned it with some degreaser and attached pictures so you can see the progression from what the screen looked like 1.) when it came out; 2.) after an initial wipe-down; 3.) after my first cleaning effort with dawn dish detergent; and 4.) after being degreased and wiped down. Regarding gaskets, all appeared to be in good condition with no unusual wear or warping so I would think that the initial bare-bone list of core gaskets would have been sufficient to do the job.

FINAL ANALYSIS – The oil screen looked much better than I anticipated considering what others have posted. Based on this, I suspect that the engine flush I performed 1,500 miles prior may have helped to clean the oil screen. I would consider doing the flush again maybe after another 50,000 miles. This coupled with a more rigorous oil change regimen every 3,500-5,000 miles should help keep the engine nice and clean. Regarding the preventative maintenance, I am glad I had it done for peace of mind. For those of you who are capable of doing on your own, I would recommend it. For others, dealer cost without any goodwill for an A8/S8 to replace the oil screen, check valve, oil separator all associated gaskets and fittings per TSBs, and change oil and filter was approx. $2,250. Had I taken to my general mechanic, assuming purchase of parts at wholesale cost, I would have probably spent around $1,100 including labor. Feel better having it done by Audi-specific mechanic and finally I am back to enjoying my car without fear of it blowing up.

Hope this write-up helps others. Best of luck to everyone. Relevant pictures are attached.

Thank you for the great write up spdemon91!

[Fociracr]

Well add me to the list 2013 S6 53k miles, Stage 1 since 48k miles. So I've been lurking the internets looking for a used set of turbo's as I think it's outrageous what the dealer charges for brand new ones, and I've stumbled upon this. I know know its made in china shit but for $300? Has anyone used these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bi-Turbo-Core-AUDI-2013-A6-S6-A7-S7-A8-S8-4-0TFSI-JH5IT-079145704E-079145703F/223445318457?hash=item340660fb39:g:wEIAAOSwyi9aDUM v

[daytona rs7]

SRM makes just the CHRA. as long as your housing are good, this is a good option.

Keep in mind the for saving a 1k (if replacing the CHRA) or $5-7k (if replacing the entire assemblies) at this time by using those $300 chinese turbos can cause 15-20k of damage if (when) they blow apart and damage the block or pistons.

[Fociracr]

It seems like they only make RS7 Core kits, would these be able to be used in a S6 turbo as well?

[daytona rs7]

It seems like they only make RS7 Core kits, would these be able to be used in a S6 turbo as well?

email them.
there is a note on their site for non-billet (s6 oem) or billet (rs7) which would be S6 stage 3...and require supporting mods/tune.

[ArizonaA6]

It seems like they only make RS7 Core kits, would these be able to be used in a S6 turbo as well?I went with the OEM size SRM CHRAs.

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[Dasquade]

Curious how many with blown turbos been driving with start/stop enabled in combination with audi recommanded oil service intervals and do frequent city driving....

[SleekS7]

Curious how many with blown turbos been driving with start/stop enabled in combination with audi recommanded oil service intervals and do frequent city driving....

If you're referring to an engine auto stop/start feature, it wasn't available on US spec S6/S7/RS7/S8 until MY2018? Definitely not on my 2013 S7.

[widebodyfx]

Early S cars (2013) did not have start/stop but from probably 2014+ they did, difference between A and S start/stop is the S cars remembered your last setting without needing to code that in, A cars would enable every time you started up. RS cars do not have it at all.

[wwhan]

If you're referring to an engine auto stop/start feature, it wasn't available on US spec S6/S7/RS7/S8 until MY2018? Definitely not on my 2013 S7.

My 2016 S6 has stop/start.

[SleekS7]

My 2016 S6 has stop/start.

Hmm interesting, I checked the AoA order guides I have and from 2013-2017 they all said "Energy recuperation without stop-start" for the 4.0T S cars. Only the 2018 order guide said "Energy recuperation with start-stop".

[wwhan]

Hmm interesting, I checked the AoA order guides I have and from 2013-2017 they all said "Energy recuperation without stop-start" for the 4.0T S cars. Only the 2018 order guide said "Energy recuperation with start-stop".

The 2016 & 2017 S6 order guide says: “Energy recuperation with start-stop".

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/47049d1431921212-2016-audi-usa-order-guide-w-pricing-more-details%3B-swb-3-0t-s8-only-audi-usa-2016-order-guide-rev-5-13-2015.pdf

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/s6-c7-platform-discussion-199/56282d1463690328-2017-audi-s6-order-guide-audi-order-guide-2017-usa-retail-5.16.2016.18-19.pdf

[SleekS7]

The 2016 & 2017 S6 order guide says: “Energy recuperation with start-stop".

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/47049d1431921212-2016-audi-usa-order-guide-w-pricing-more-details%3B-swb-3-0t-s8-only-audi-usa-2016-order-guide-rev-5-13-2015.pdf

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/s6-c7-platform-discussion-199/56282d1463690328-2017-audi-s6-order-guide-audi-order-guide-2017-usa-retail-5.16.2016.18-19.pdfI guess I just have older order guides and stop/start was added for facelift cars.114094

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[Indyryatt]

Hey guys, how do you know if your turbos are failing??


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[MadAboutCars]

Rough idle, not starting, loss of power seems to be the most common reported symptoms. Sometimes a metal rattling sound. Most people don't get much warning. You can enable the stopwatch/lap timer DIS display and see the boost level on that screen. RS's already have it enabled.

[SleekS7]

People also mentioned stalling when coming to a stop.

[Indyryatt]

Damn and this happens to the rs7 as well? I called audi and they said i have the latest oil strainer.


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[wwhan]

Damn and this happens to the rs7 as well? .....

Yes, there are a few RS7s with failed in thread. Including a stock RS7 performance with under 20k miles

[Kodachrome]

I just removed my air filter to clean it out, been very dusty lately. So while I had access to the intake tubes, I spent some time doing a visual inspection with my borescope of the turbos.

I was pretty surprised to find both sides spotless, not even any oil on the driver side blades. I took some photos with the scope ( pardon the wrong time / date stamp ) and wondered about what at first looked to be maybe a scoring mark on the driver side but I am not sure, it's a black line forward of the seam. The car ( 2015 RS7) has 29K on it now so I'll keep up on 3-5K oil changes and eventually do the screen replacement possibly next year.

Passenger side:
114512

Driver side:
114513

Black line on driver side:
114514

[S7 North.Style]

How many hrs labor to get only the screens replaced ?


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[ichi d]

How many hrs labor to get only the screens replaced ?


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8 to 10 hrs. but if you are going to do that you might as well replace the check valve and pcv since it all has to come out.

[15 Phantom S6]

Damn and this happens to the rs7 as well? I called audi and they said i have the latest oil strainer.Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Double check the actual part number they say is in there, it has to be the "G" revision to be the latest one.. Haven't heard of too many folks having that version form the getgo... I'm in Sauga too, let me know if you ever wanna hit the track any time..

[160Swift]

Previously voted "no" on this poll, unfortunately need to change it to a "yes".

2013 S6, both turbos failed at 52,555 miles. Happened near the end of my 35 minute commute to work, had been gently cruising on the expressway for about 20 minutes, noticed my RPMs were at 0 while coasting on the off ramp. Car wouldn't restart, had it flat-bedded to the dealer.

114595

CPO car purchased in November of 2014 with 4,200 miles, all services performed at same dealer in accordance with Audi service schedule (10K oil change intervals, which I now regret, although more frequent does not seem to guarantee turbos won't fail). Stock except for Akropovic exhaust. Always driven gently when cold, no boost below 180F oil temp, always given a cool down period before shutdown. Of course the CPO warranty ran out in October of last year, but I have a good relationship with the dealer and they were able to negotiate with AOA to cover 75% of the repair cost. A buddy who works at AOA was able to nudge it up to 100%. Dealer said they have been seeing quite a few 4.0T turbo failures, mine was the 4th that month! I paid out of pocket to have the oil separator replaced with the latest "E" revision while they were in there (SA said they just did one NOT during a turbo replacement and it was close to $2500 just to swap out the oil separator).

Although I am incredibly grateful that Audi covered the repair, I was less than thrilled about some of the workmanship. Oil was overfilled by almost a quart, heat shield was no longer attached to the underside of the engine cover and was just resting on top of the turbos, and the round plastic base where the plastic inlet tubes connect to the air box (downstream of where it twists off to change the filter) had somehow separated and left a big gap allowing unfiltered air to enter the turbos. I used this as an excuse to swap in an RS7 air box, but was again dismayed to find a dirty air filter and a bunch of debris and leaves inside the old air box. The intake duct was not fully attached to the air box, and the intake "scoop" was missing one of the mounting screws. Overall, very disappointed to find a vehicle that has been dealer-maintained its entire life in this condition. Needless to say I will be taking a much more active approach in personally maintaining the car; all of these issues have been remedied, and even did a quick engine detail! Need to spend a few more minutes where the fenders mount though, lot of grunge buildup there. Will also be going to 5K oil change intervals.

114594

[spdemon91]

I replied to another thread on the forum with some information which may be useful on this thread. I believe the topic of the extended warranty had been previously covered somewhere in the past 500 posts but it may be worth re-exploring...

- - - - -

Sorry you are having this issue. That appears to be a lot of play. Check out this thread on another forum on same subject... Near the end there is lots of discussion regarding an additional warranty for certain states. One dude (dwboston) just had his blown turbos replaced at 68k miles under this 7 yr / 70k mile warranty. I see you are in PA and so am I. My turbos didn't blow but I had the preventative maintenance done replacing out the oil screen, check valve, and oil separator. You will see my writeup in the blown turbo thread. Anyway, in talking to the Service Manager, he knew about the 7 yr / 70k warranty extension for certain states including PA. In my case it didn't matter since my car had over 77k miles on it so I never really looked into further. If I were you and others on this board, this is something I would definitely explore. Link is below.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...2966653/page4/

[digdah]

Your link is not working



I replied to another thread on the forum with some information which may be useful on this thread. I believe the topic of the extended warranty had been previously covered somewhere in the past 500 posts but it may be worth re-exploring...

- - - - -

Sorry you are having this issue. That appears to be a lot of play. Check out this thread on another forum on same subject... Near the end there is lots of discussion regarding an additional warranty for certain states. One dude (dwboston) just had his blown turbos replaced at 68k miles under this 7 yr / 70k mile warranty. I see you are in PA and so am I. My turbos didn't blow but I had the preventative maintenance done replacing out the oil screen, check valve, and oil separator. You will see my writeup in the blown turbo thread. Anyway, in talking to the Service Manager, he knew about the 7 yr / 70k warranty extension for certain states including PA. In my case it didn't matter since my car had over 77k miles on it so I never really looked into further. If I were you and others on this board, this is something I would definitely explore. Link is below.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...2966653/page4/

[spdemon91]

Hmm... Maybe since I copied and pasted it from another thread. I tested this one and it works for me in preview post. Hopefully it works for you fellas.

Link... > https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/4-0tt-turbo-failure-thread-s6-s7-rs7-a8-s8-2966653/page4/

[spdemon91]

Hmm... Maybe since I copied and pasted it from another thread. I tested this one and it works for me in preview post. Hopefully it works for you fellas.

Link... > https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/4-0tt-turbo-failure-thread-s6-s7-rs7-a8-s8-2966653/page4/

If the above link still doesn't work, thread is located at audiworld, a8/s8 forum, D4 model...

114879

[digdah]

If the above link still doesn't work, thread is located at audiworld, a8/s8 forum, D4 model...

114879

This one worked, thanks. So what I gathered was:

1. The 7yr 75k warranty extension does not apply to the S6 and would not work for me in my state anyway either.
2. The S8s are in the same exact boat as expected.
3. Some have been able to get some goodwill from AoA with varying degrees of success but most nada.
4. I should keep saving and buying my pieces bit by bit as the inevitable blowout comes and just hope I am close to home/dealership/tow company.

Being modded I am finding even the extended warranty guys are not covering my vehicle even with something as small as an aftermarket exhaust. Question is how will they know? Do they call the shop that is working on the car to ask questions or send a rep out to inspect the vehicle perhaps for work over a certain dollar amount?

[wwhan]

This one worked, thanks. So what I gathered was:

1. The 7yr 75k warranty extension does not apply to the S6 and would not work for me in my state anyway either.
.....


It does apply to S6, it is noted in my 2016 S6 emissions warranty manual.

Also some Bentleys with the same 4.0t are affected, with a Bentley turbo fail TSB.

[lisovoy]

I have dissected oil separator ( D revision ) 2013 S8 112k. Not an expert to judge whether you should update or clean this box, just know that its an ashtray
..for some reason Im having trouble with attaching images :/

https://imgur.com/0rRWNhC
https://imgur.com/2GhsVfo
https://imgur.com/jjA4NG9
https://imgur.com/EFkx4Bj
https://imgur.com/VhykcjJ
https://imgur.com/eVvHkdX
https://imgur.com/0rRWNhC
https://imgur.com/2GhsVfo
https://imgur.com/jjA4NG9
https://imgur.com/VhykcjJ
https://imgur.com/eVvHkdX

[ichi d]

It would be nice to see how the new version compares to the old one.

[wwhan]

It would be nice to see how the new version compares to the old one.

Apparently on the D revision they changed the membrane:

"17 MIL on; whistling noises from engine compartment (DTC P2279 and/or P0507)
17 16 70 2040644/5 March 18, 2016.

REVISION HISTORY
5 Revised Required Parts and Tools (Added retaining clip, o-ring, coolant additive, and distilled water)

4 3/9/2016 Revised title

3 10/14/2015 Revised Production Solution (Completely revised), Revised Required Parts and Tools (Updated oil separator part number)

Production Solution
Fabric reinforced internal membrane of crankcase breather module."

The older TSB:

"17 Whistling noises from engine compartment
17 15 62 2040644/1 May 13, 2015.

Production Solution
Not applicable.

079 103 542 B Oil separator"

[mrdouble99]

I just removed my air filter to clean it out, been very dusty lately. So while I had access to the intake tubes, I spent some time doing a visual inspection with my borescope of the turbos.

I was pretty surprised to find both sides spotless, not even any oil on the driver side blades. I took some photos with the scope ( pardon the wrong time / date stamp ) and wondered about what at first looked to be maybe a scoring mark on the driver side but I am not sure, it's a black line forward of the seam. The car ( 2015 RS7) has 29K on it now so I'll keep up on 3-5K oil changes and eventually do the screen replacement possibly next year.

Passenger side:
114512

Driver side:
114513

Black line on driver side:
114514

that's brand new turbo lol

[mintytoo]

Have all the people with blown turbos reported this to nhtsa yet? To try to force an inquiry into this issue for recall. Seems like it is definitely a safety issue to suddenly lose power on the road,

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/



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[ichi d]

Have all the people with blown turbos reported this to nhtsa yet? To try to force an inquiry into this issue for recall. Seems like it is definitely a safety issue to suddenly lose power on the road,

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/



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this is a good idea. everyone who has blown turbos should fill out that form.

[Guwapo77]

this is a good idea. everyone who has blown turbos should fill out that form.

I like this idea, I will be filing. But it will probably be null because my car was no longer in factory settings.


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[mintytoo]

I like this idea, I will be filing. But it will probably be null because my car was no longer in factory settings.


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It shouldn't matter, but don't mention that in your nhtsa report, lol

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[digdah]

I like this idea, I will be filing. But it will probably be null because my car was no longer in factory settings.


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Like mintytoo said it doesn't matter. AoA will try to hide behind that excuse if they find out but lets be honest here, so many stock S models as well as Bentley GTs have failed that they know it is a design flaw hence their TSB.

[audi_nightrider]

I think I just joined the club. Stock 14 S7 with 54,500 miles

Cruising home from a 5 hr trip when there's 1 hr left to get home, was boosting and running fine until we hit traffic. RPM dropped below 800rpm and car completely died on me. Won't even start up and had to push the car from the 2nd lane across 2 more lanes to the shoulder, created my own traffic. Called roadside assistance but 20 mins later, car cranks but won't turn until I tried giving it some gas. Car stays running as long as I try keeping the rpm 800rpm or above or else it will stall again. 45 mins and still no tow truck, tried giving it a go with caution and I managed to get it home somehow by keeping the rpm above 800rpm.

No codes or whatsoever. Turbo wasn't boosting. Car is parked in my driveway and haven't dissected it yet.

Only reason I bought the car was because it was advertised as Audi CPO from a Volkswagen dealership and they keep on insisting that the CPO warranty is transferable when I keep on asking them about it. Peace of mind that they have promised made me forget about asking for a PPI, when there's an Audi dealership couple of blocks away. After putting 2k miles, learnt the hard way when I took it in for a check-up. Leaking motor mounts and missed my actual warranty due date by only 2 months.

Then now turbo failure after 1-1/2 year of ownership and 8k miles. [headbang]

ddnt know its first trip to the snow will cost me this much $$$$
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190412/6226dce9245837cc2de7e95fd5febced.jpg

[mintytoo]

I think I just joined the club. Stock 14 S7 with 54,500 miles

Cruising home from a 5 hr trip when there's 1 hr left to get home, was boosting and running fine until we hit traffic. RPM dropped below 800rpm and car completely died on me. Won't even start up and had to push the car from the 2nd lane across 2 more lanes to the shoulder, created my own traffic. Called roadside assistance but 20 mins later, car cranks but won't turn until I tried giving it some gas. Car stays running as long as I try keeping the rpm 800rpm or above or else it will stall again. 45 mins and still no tow truck, tried giving it a go with caution and I managed to get it home somehow by keeping the rpm above 800rpm.

No codes or whatsoever. Turbo wasn't boosting. Car is parked in my driveway and haven't dissected it yet.

Only reason I bought the car was because it was advertised as Audi CPO from a Volkswagen dealership and they keep on insisting that the CPO warranty is transferable when I keep on asking them about it. Peace of mind that they have promised made me forget about asking for a PPI, when there's an Audi dealership couple of blocks away. After putting 2k miles, learnt the hard way when I took it in for a check-up. Leaking motor mounts and missed my actual warranty due date by only 2 months.

Then now turbo failure after 1-1/2 year of ownership and 8k miles. [headbang]

ddnt know its first trip to the snow will cost me this much $$$$
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190412/6226dce9245837cc2de7e95fd5febced.jpg

Doh! So the cpo was or wasn't transferable?

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[audi_nightrider]

Doh! So the cpo was or wasn't transferable?

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It was not, only transferrable if I bought it privately from the same person who bought it CPO. Feel so dumb believing all their words, should've just done my own homework.

[digdah]

Only reason I bought the car was because it was advertised as Audi CPO from a Volkswagen dealership and they keep on insisting that the CPO warranty is transferable when I keep on asking them about it. Peace of mind that they have promised made me forget about asking for a PPI, when there's an Audi dealership couple of blocks away. After putting 2k miles, learnt the hard way when I took it in for a check-up. Leaking motor mounts and missed my actual warranty due date by only 2 months.

Then now turbo failure after 1-1/2 year of ownership and 8k miles. [headbang]

ddnt know its first trip to the snow will cost me this much $$$$


Man sucks this has happened to you man. Weird thing about the wording on the CPO warranty transfer is that is can only be done on a private owner to private owner and completed within 30 days of the sale occuring. That really is so weird but you can read it for yourself here:

https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/2018-Audi-CPO-Warranty-Transfer-Application.pdf

[mintytoo]

Man sucks this has happened to you man. Weird thing about the wording on the CPO warranty transfer is that is can only be done on a private owner to private owner and completed within 30 days of the sale occuring. That really is so weird but you can read it for yourself here:

https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/2018-Audi-CPO-Warranty-Transfer-Application.pdf

Yep, I read that one the s4 forum, and I thought a small fee was involved too. Anyways, lesson learned, anything promised by a dealer better be in writing! A dealer once promised me 2 years maintenance, came back and the salesman moved on, the paperwork guy was in vacay and the dealership was changing owner, SMH!

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[audi_nightrider]

Man sucks this has happened to you man. Weird thing about the wording on the CPO warranty transfer is that is can only be done on a private owner to private owner and completed within 30 days of the sale occuring. That really is so weird but you can read it for yourself here:

https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/2018-Audi-CPO-Warranty-Transfer-Application.pdf

Yeah, did read this when I was about to “transfer” the CPO warranty. Then gave AoA a call to confirm.


Yep, I read that one the s4 forum, and I thought a small fee was involved too. Anyways, lesson learned, anything promised by a dealer better be in writing! A dealer once promised me 2 years maintenance, came back and the salesman moved on, the paperwork guy was in vacay and the dealership was changing owner, SMH!

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That sucks! these salesman are like trolls/wikipedia in real life lol.



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[mintytoo]

Yeah, did read this when I was about to “transfer” the CPO warranty. Then gave AoA a call to confirm.



That sucks! these salesman are like trolls/wikipedia in real life lol.



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, sorry man. Nobody would call me back from that dealership, and it was a thirty minute drive without traffic. I lit them up on Facebook, Twitter, even the manufacturer's FB page and eventually the new dealerships owner called me personally to fix it. In your case it may have been too long ago, but never hurts to try. I'd still be pissed about it off I was in your shoes.

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[Frenetic]

Your car may be covered by CARB’s emission warranty. I would check.

http://i.imgur.com/8RSMjw1.jpg



I think I just joined the club. Stock 14 S7 with 54,500 miles

Cruising home from a 5 hr trip when there's 1 hr left to get home, was boosting and running fine until we hit traffic. RPM dropped below 800rpm and car completely died on me. Won't even start up and had to push the car from the 2nd lane across 2 more lanes to the shoulder, created my own traffic. Called roadside assistance but 20 mins later, car cranks but won't turn until I tried giving it some gas. Car stays running as long as I try keeping the rpm 800rpm or above or else it will stall again. 45 mins and still no tow truck, tried giving it a go with caution and I managed to get it home somehow by keeping the rpm above 800rpm.

No codes or whatsoever. Turbo wasn't boosting. Car is parked in my driveway and haven't dissected it yet.

Only reason I bought the car was because it was advertised as Audi CPO from a Volkswagen dealership and they keep on insisting that the CPO warranty is transferable when I keep on asking them about it. Peace of mind that they have promised made me forget about asking for a PPI, when there's an Audi dealership couple of blocks away. After putting 2k miles, learnt the hard way when I took it in for a check-up. Leaking motor mounts and missed my actual warranty due date by only 2 months.

Then now turbo failure after 1-1/2 year of ownership and 8k miles. [headbang]

ddnt know its first trip to the snow will cost me this much $$$$
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190412/6226dce9245837cc2de7e95fd5febced.jpg

[audi_nightrider]

Yeah, you guys beat me to it. Was gonna ask if everyone who lives/resides in those listed states have their dealership honored this warranty without having to go through arguments. Some service advisers are snobs lol.

[rpmulli]

Yeah, you guys beat me to it. Was gonna ask if everyone who lives/resides in those listed states have their dealership honored this warranty without having to go through arguments. Some service advisers are snobs lol.

I will find out today as I’ll be making a trip to the dealer for a few parts.


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[rpmulli]

I will find out today as I’ll be making a trip to the dealer for a few parts.

Where can I get a soft copy of that document that Frenetic took a picture of?

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[mintytoo]

Sent from my iPad using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Check your manual

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[wwhan]

Check your manual

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Specifically the California Emissions Warranty Supplement, which is seperate little booklet. I don't know if this same booklet comes with cars in other CARB states.

Example:
2016 Audi All Model California Emissions Book 1st Edition US English, Item# MY16AUCAEMWAR23 (https://literature.audiusa.com/product.asp?dept_id=20&pf_id=MY16AUCAEMWAR23)

[TSpoolin]

2016 S6 with 366XX miles, stock, no turbo issues as of yet.

[wwhan]

2016 S6 with 366XX miles, stock, no turbo issues as of yet.

How often do you change the oil/oil-filter?

[jflyntrr]

How often do you change the oil/oil-filter?

5k


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[TSpoolin]

How often do you change the oil/oil-filter?

I did 8k for the first two (I bought the car as a CPO with 13k) but will now be switching to 5k changes. Somewhat concerned and may go in and change to latest screen revision in the near future.

[Raudi J]

There is newer TSB 21-18-30 2044640/5 dated November 28, 2018, which covers through MY 2017.

This poll could be improved by listing model statistics as well. I talked to a dealer that keeps many turbos in stock, and replaces about 3 a month, but has not had to replace any on RS7s.

[1flossedS4]

Soooo buying a used S7 is not a good idea? lol

Anyone have a Fidelity warranty, if so have they covered a blown turbo disaster?

[Clipse3GT]

Here is a picture of the turbocharger failure on journal bearing shaft. I took the turbos apart. Also note the gold/copper dust on the end of the threaded shaft as well as the thrust plate. The screen slowly degrades oil flow. Once its starts to go the filter screen gets completely occluded which ends in failure.

https://i.imgur.com/edul6Fd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/y3xwzOh.jpg

[Hofahome]

Soooo buying a used S7 is not a good idea? lol

Anyone have a Fidelity warranty, if so have they covered a blown turbo disaster?

My aftermarket warranty did


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[cval3]

Just wanted to throw in my past experience as a heads up to all with the Audi Extended Care through SafeGuard. I recently got the train whistle on my way home from work 2 weeks ago and forum-diagnosed it as a blown PCV Valve, brought it in to the dealer early the next morning where they immediately verified my diagnosis saying, "yep, we see it all the time". The following week I got a call saying I needed a new PCV and an O2 sensor but the rep from SafeGuard said they would NOT cover the repair. As a side note I have just the "powertrain" warranty, which I learned was a INCLUSIONARY - meaning the part had to be specifically called out in the contract. Here's where it gets interesting (read: infuriating)...The SA couldn't help me because he didn't know the contract I signed and forwarded me to the SafeGuard rep.

Apparently on the work order, Audi Dealership wrote up "Oil Seperator", which in fact is not listed in the list of things covered under "PowerTrain". On the phone with SafeGuard and partially losing my S, it ended poorly and he sent me a copy of the contract to review; after researching further I found what IS listed is "Pressure Relief Valve and Screen". I immediately called back with a new SafeGuard rep and tried to plead my case, he came back and said, "nope, why manager said what they meant by this was [insert some other random part here]". Oh, I ask, you can just arbitrarily assign definitions to vague parts listed in this paragraph? Again...no luck STRIKE 2.

That night in 1 last ditch effort I fired off two more emails. One to the dealer, which i quoted the 8yr/80k FEDERALLY MANDATED emissions warranty and both the pcv and the o2 should clearly fall under this provision; I also mentioned the fact that i bought it from them 6months ago and there's a TSB for this part(2040644/8). The other email was a screenshot from ECS Tuning for the PCV Valve which basically describes in detail the functionality of the PCV "to relieve pressure of..." and "able to vent air from the crankcase..." and "...this oil separator and valve might be...." etc etc. I explained that this part has about 6 different names ("Pressure Relief Valve", "Pressure Control Valve", "Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve", "Crankcase Breather", or "Oil Seperator") that all mean the SAME THING.

Sure thing the next morning I received an email from SafeGuard saying "my manager has agreed to cover this part, your claim number is....", WIN #1. I immediately got a call from Audi Dealership saying a) great news, thank you for your persistence on your end and b) we are going to cover the part for the O2 sensor if you cover the labor, WIN #2.

I know none of this has complete tie into the turbo failure, but the point is...DONT EVER SETTLE when dealing with these guys. They are looking for the easiest, most cost effective (to them) route...in my case it was saying "NOPE".

My car is a 2013 S6 with 38k on it. Original quote for the PCV Valve was $3,148 (now just $250 deductible) and for the Replacement of the O2 Sensor $961.68 (now $675 for the labor)

[daytona rs7]

Just wanted to throw in my past experience as a heads up to all with the Audi Extended Care through SafeGuard. I recently got the train whistle on my way home from work 2 weeks ago and forum-diagnosed it as a blown PCV Valve, brought it in to the dealer early the next morning where they immediately verified my diagnosis saying, "yep, we see it all the time". The following week I got a call saying I needed a new PCV and an O2 sensor but the rep from SafeGuard said they would NOT cover the repair. As a side note I have just the "powertrain" warranty, which I learned was a INCLUSIONARY - meaning the part had to be specifically called out in the contract. Here's where it gets interesting (read: infuriating)...The SA couldn't help me because he didn't know the contract I signed and forwarded me to the SafeGuard rep.

Apparently on the work order, Audi Dealership wrote up "Oil Seperator", which in fact is not listed in the list of things covered under "PowerTrain". On the phone with SafeGuard and partially losing my S, it ended poorly and he sent me a copy of the contract to review; after researching further I found what IS listed is "Pressure Relief Valve and Screen". I immediately called back with a new SafeGuard rep and tried to plead my case, he came back and said, "nope, why manager said what they meant by this was [insert some other random part here]". Oh, I ask, you can just arbitrarily assign definitions to vague parts listed in this paragraph? Again...no luck STRIKE 2.

That night in 1 last ditch effort I fired off two more emails. One to the dealer, which i quoted the 8yr/80k FEDERALLY MANDATED emissions warranty and both the pcv and the o2 should clearly fall under this provision; I also mentioned the fact that i bought it from them 6months ago and there's a TSB for this part(2040644/8). The other email was a screenshot from ECS Tuning for the PCV Valve which basically describes in detail the functionality of the PCV "to relieve pressure of..." and "able to vent air from the crankcase..." and "...this oil separator and valve might be...." etc etc. I explained that this part has about 6 different names ("Pressure Relief Valve", "Pressure Control Valve", "Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve", "Crankcase Breather", or "Oil Seperator") that all mean the SAME THING.

Sure thing the next morning I received an email from SafeGuard saying "my manager has agreed to cover this part, your claim number is....", WIN #1. I immediately got a call from Audi Dealership saying a) great news, thank you for your persistence on your end and b) we are going to cover the part for the O2 sensor if you cover the labor, WIN #2.

I know none of this has complete tie into the turbo failure, but the point is...DONT EVER SETTLE when dealing with these guys. They are looking for the easiest, most cost effective (to them) route...in my case it was saying "NOPE".

My car is a 2013 S6 with 38k on it. Original quote for the PCV Valve was $3,148 (now just $250 deductible) and for the Replacement of the O2 Sensor $961.68 (now $675 for the labor)

shit situation, but glad it kind of worked out. although you shouldn't be paying for labor cost of the o2 sensor. not to mention, $675 seems high for labor. that's roughly 4 hours?
If not too late, pay the extra and have the oil screen replaced. should be very low cost since most of the disassembly is done to change the PCV.

[1flossedS4]

Damn PCV valve replacement is that much!?

[Hofahome]

My car is a 2013 S6 with 38k on it. Original quote for the PCV Valve was $3,148 (now just $250 deductible) and for the Replacement of the O2 Sensor $961.68 (now $675 for the labor)

Holy shit no wonder your warranty did not want to pay! They are grossely overcharging. PCV replacement should be $1200 - $1500 total and O2 sensor should cost around $100 and take about 5 minutes even if a one-armed blind monkey installs it.

Good for you though on getting it covered.


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[digdah]

These dealerships are charging way too much for simple stuff. For giggles I asked how much it would cost to change out my oil screen and valve and while in there inspect my turbos. They came back with $2800, I immediately went to get a quote from an Indy which came back as $930. Night and day difference so I might as well just use the Indy to replace the turbos with SRM RS7 spec ones and go stage 3.

[wwhan]

These dealerships are charging way too much for simple stuff. For giggles I asked how much it would cost to change out my oil screen and valve and while in there inspect my turbos. They came back with $2800, I immediately went to get a quote from an Indy which came back as $930......

Well San Jose Audi labor rate is $215/hr, so 12 hours would be $2580 labor.

[DoItAllGarage]

Well San Jose Audi labor rate is $215/hr, so 12 hours would be $2580 labor.Wow! That is crazy! I didn't know that.

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[digdah]

Well San Jose Audi labor rate is $215/hr, so 12 hours would be $2580 labor.

WOW, just wow. I rest my case and take my business to Indy.

[Hofahome]

Well San Jose Audi labor rate is $215/hr, so 12 hours would be $2580 labor.

At that price you should get a rub and tug while you wait.


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[wwhan]

At that price you should get a rub and tug while you wait......

Allegedly, Audi San Francisco labor rate is much more.

[OaborbaG]

I voted no, since the turbos are still working, but when I took off the engine cover to see what version I had I noticed some dried oil residue on one of the oil lines to the passenger turbo, and noticed I still have the B revision. I have an after market warranty, do I do the update myself? Let it ride and hope warranty covers it? Or just upgrade turbos now? 2500 + dp and upgraded apr tune doesn't seem terrible for peace of mind and more power! (In Jeremy Clarkson's voice)

Attached are pictures of before and then after I scraped off the oil, and the revision of the oil strainer.
116729116730116731

[mintytoo]

I voted no, since the turbos are still working, but when I took off the engine cover to see what version I had I noticed some dried oil residue on one of the oil lines to the passenger turbo, and noticed I still have the B revision. I have an after market warranty, do I do the update myself? Let it ride and hope warranty covers it? Or just upgrade turbos now? 2500 + dp and upgraded apr tune doesn't seem terrible for peace of mind and more power! (In Jeremy Clarkson's voice)

Attached are pictures of before and then after I scraped off the oil, and the revision of the oil strainer.
116729116730116731That black crud is dried coolant. There's a tsb for that, maybe new o rings or just a software flash

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[OaborbaG]

That black crud is dried coolant. There's a tsb for that, maybe new o rings or just a software flash

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I just had another line replaced down by the waterpump because it was leaking coolant, guess that was missed by the dealer, but it may be old. I'll have to monitor it.

[mintytoo]

I just had another line replaced down by the waterpump because it was leaking coolant, guess that was missed by the dealer, but it may be old. I'll have to monitor it.You can just clean it off and see if it comes back but it looks pretty classic for a turbo coolant line leak from that pic

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[kaploww]

That is coolant.

You’ll need to pull the coolant lines and replace the o-rings.

May as well do the oil feed o-ring as well while you’re in there.

Only takes a few minutes.

[kpriv]

At that price you should get a rub and tug while you wait.


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then they'd be able to get bob kraft to service his audi there...

[TurboNV]

No

2016 S6 42k miles
APR stage 1 as of 41k miles


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[BillyBawb]

I've become a statistic...

2013 S7, 49k miles. 1 turbo blown, the other will be stripped and inspected when the RS turbo's arrive, but I'm guessing it's probably not far behind.

APR Stage 2, DP's & full exhaust + SRM intakes as of 46k miles.

https://i.ibb.co/m61pSvb/E2-AE9781-797-F-4-BEA-B27-F-7-BBA237-D75-C8.jpg (https://ibb.co/SRWSJQ5)

https://i.ibb.co/pQpPnH8/31775424-8-A2-C-4677-915-A-E3-A4-F5-EC1386.jpg (https://ibb.co/nBS0RXv)

[VR4-S4]

https://i.ibb.co/m61pSvb/E2-AE9781-797-F-4-BEA-B27-F-7-BBA237-D75-C8.jpg (https://ibb.co/SRWSJQ5)

As we say in good old Afrikaans...bliksem!

[BillyBawb]

As we say in good old Afrikaans...bliksem!

Behoorlik in sy moer... [;)]

[PaulRS7]

Does anyone know how other versions of this engine that’s used in Porsche, Bentley and Lambo holding up with regards to the turbos?

[wwhan]

Does anyone know how other versions of this engine that’s used in Porsche, Bentley and Lambo holding up with regards to the turbos?

I think Porsche uses a different 4.0T engine. (https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/27/audi-s8-twin-turbo-v8-d5-rumor/) "Autocar says the coming D5 sedan will get a 4.0-liter twin-turbo V8 sourced from the Porsche Panamera Turbo, ditching the 4.0-liter twin-turbo V8 that Audi developed with Bentley and put in the current D4 S8. "

Look at the Bentley TSB:

"Technical product information
Topic Engine difficult to start - Turbocharger damaged - V8 4.0TFSI
Market area Bentley: worldwide (2WBE),Hongkong-Macau (5HK)
Brand Bentley
Transaction No. 2052085/1"


"Continental Series and Flying Spur equipped with V8T engine
Type MY
3932* 2012
3932* 2013
3932* 2014
3932* 2015
3932* 2016
3932* 2017
3932* 2018
4W22* 2014
4W22* 2015
4W22* 2016
4W22* 2017
4W22* 2018"

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C12.JPG

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C31.JPG

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C23.JPG

[phaphaphooey]

I think Porsche uses a different 4.0T engine. (https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/27/audi-s8-twin-turbo-v8-d5-rumor/) "Autocar says the coming D5 sedan will get a 4.0-liter twin-turbo V8 sourced from the Porsche Panamera Turbo, ditching the 4.0-liter twin-turbo V8 that Audi developed with Bentley and put in the current D4 S8. "

Look at the Bentley TSB:

"Technical product information
Topic Engine difficult to start - Turbocharger damaged - V8 4.0TFSI
Market area Bentley: worldwide (2WBE),Hongkong-Macau (5HK)
Brand Bentley
Transaction No. 2052085/1"


"Continental Series and Flying Spur equipped with V8T engine
Type MY
3932* 2012
3932* 2013
3932* 2014
3932* 2015
3932* 2016
3932* 2017
3932* 2018
4W22* 2014
4W22* 2015
4W22* 2016
4W22* 2017
4W22* 2018"

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C12.JPG

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C31.JPG

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/504/C23.JPG

Correct. The 4.0 Porsche engine is developed separately from the 4.0 engine that Audi developed for itself and Bentley even though the displacement is the same. Going forward it seems as though the Audi developed 4.0 is being retired and that the Porsche developed 4.0 is proliferating throughout the VAG lineup (Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc).

[brilliant_black]

Correct. The 4.0 Porsche engine is developed separately from the 4.0 engine that Audi developed for itself and Bentley even though the displacement is the same. Going forward it seems as though the Audi developed 4.0 is being retired and that the Porsche developed 4.0 is proliferating throughout the VAG lineup (Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc).

For good reason haha, they really dropped the ball with the oil screen issue.


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[MadAboutCars]

Also misfire and carbon build up.

[digdah]

So I hit up the mothership to voice my concerns about these failures and see what kind of goodwill they are planning on making. Spoke with a very pleasant woman called Elizabeth (they are always so pleasant) who politely let me know my vehicle was TD1'd. I had never known but always suspected this was the case cause I obviously have a tune and go to the dealership for many issues so I'm sure it has been scanned. She did make it clear AoA would not cover my vehicle but alluded to the fact that other cases might be different where if not tuned provisions might be made like others have had to varying degrees. The impression I got was you might be able to get some help if your car is not flagged.

[mintytoo]

So I hit up the mothership to voice my concerns about these failures and see what kind of goodwill they are planning on making. Spoke with a very pleasant woman called Elizabeth (they are always so pleasant) who politely let me know my vehicle was TD1'd. I had never known but always suspected this was the case cause I obviously have a tune and go to the dealership for many issues so I'm sure it has been scanned. She did make it clear AoA would not cover my vehicle but alluded to the fact that other cases might be different where if not tuned provisions might be made like others have had to varying degrees. The impression I got was you might be able to get some help if your car is not flagged.Yeah, "if not TD1 and still under warranty" is what I'm guessing, lol

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[digdah]

Yeah, "if not TD1 and still under warranty" is what I'm guessing, lol

Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkI specifically asked about extending the warranty or some sort of Goodwill for those out of it due to time, mileage or both.

[BigTex]

Has anyone seen this? Shows the importance of filing those complaints with the NHTSA. "GM faces possible class action lawsuit over 8-speed transmission"- https://www.autoblog.com/2019/04/25/gm-transmission-class-action-lawsuit/


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[mintytoo]

Has anyone seen this? Shows the importance of filing those complaints with the NHTSA. "GM faces possible class action lawsuit over 8-speed transmission"- https://www.autoblog.com/2019/04/25/gm-transmission-class-action-lawsuit/


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Yep, please file your turbo failures to nhtsa, it's the only way a recall would be effected. Audi is not going to just volunteer to do it

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[digdah]

Has anyone seen this? Shows the importance of filing those complaints with the NHTSA. "GM faces possible class action lawsuit over 8-speed transmission"- https://www.autoblog.com/2019/04/25/gm-transmission-class-action-lawsuit/


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Absolutely. As a matter of fact the rep from AoA stated that is what forces them to perform services outside warranty if enough complaints hit that department and they are told to act. Just make sure you say it is a safety issue because it is.

[VR4-S4]

I specifically asked about extending the warranty or some sort of Goodwill for those out of it due to time, mileage or both.

I wasn't that lucky. 100% stock, no TD1, 1 year (or 2000 miles) out of warranty. I got shot down immediately for an extended warranty and denied my goodwill request.

[digdah]

I wasn't that lucky. 100% stock, no TD1, 1 year (or 2000 miles) out of warranty. I got shot down immediately for an extended warranty and denied my goodwill request.That sucks. I would have been persistent.

[S7 North.Style]

That sucks. I would have been persistent.

Persistence will not assist, unless you’ve experienced a blown turbo and under warranty. Otherwise, they will not voluntarily assist in any preventive maintenance...I’ve tried myself


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[viceroy1976]

I apologise for not having read through the entire thread, so don't know if this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm about to buy a 2013 S6 with 55k miles on the clock.
According to the car history, the oil separator was replaced at the beginning of 2017, and the turbos were changed in September of the same year.
What I really want to know is, are the newer revised turbos much less likely to blow. The poll would indicate so, but I find asking directly is better than assuming.

[daytona rs7]

I apologise for not having read through the entire thread, so don't know if this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm about to buy a 2013 S6 with 55k miles on the clock.
According to the car history, the oil separator was replaced at the beginning of 2017, and the turbos were changed in September of the same year.
What I really want to know is, are the newer revised turbos much less likely to blow. The poll would indicate so, but I find asking directly is better than assuming.

the turbos were never the bad part. the oil screen/strainer is. and changing the turbos but leaving the old oil screen in is a terrible idea. do you know if it was replaced at the same time?

also, it sucks that the oil separator was replaced at a different time than the turbos...as the work to get to the area take the same amount of time. if the oil screen was not replaced when the turbos were, a shop will have to spend all that time for a 3rd go around. if you are unsure about the screen being replaced when the turbos were, id suggest spending the money now to replace the screen for $1500ish, rather than not knowing how clogged the screen is and then spending $5k for new turbos in the near future.

[wwhan]

I apologise for not having read through the entire thread, so don't know if this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm about to buy a 2013 S6 with 55k miles on the clock.
According to the car history, the oil separator was replaced at the beginning of 2017, and the turbos were changed in September of the same year.
What I really want to know is, are the newer revised turbos much less likely to blow. The poll would indicate so, but I find asking directly is better than assuming.

It would be best to get the service repair record indicating, if and when, the screen and check valve were replaced. Also oil/oil-filter should be replaced at least as often as every 5k miles.

If the service repair record indicating, if and when, the screen and check valve were replaced is not available, assume you will spend another $2k to get it done.

Search the turbo TSB in this thread. revision 3 & 4 states the production change for turbo failure:

"Production Solution
Optimized oil strainer 079115175G for oil supply lines to turbochargers in the cover in the inner valley of engine.

The oil strainer and check valve 079103175C must always be replaced to ensure proper oil flow to the turbochargers."

[caddyrag67]

So this is about to go down on the 17 s7 w/ 29k miles. All my parts came in. my turbos are good, this is a preventative measure plus i am changing oil seperator to new revision, might as well change out the screen and valve too.118933

[Frenetic]

Can you take a photo of your old screen and report back? I have the same model year.


So this is about to go down on the 17 s7 w/ 29k miles. All my parts came in. my turbos are good, this is a preventative measure plus i am changing oil seperator to new revision, might as well change out the screen and valve too.118933

[JetMX1]

Im in a potential lawsuit with my aftermarket insurance company, Endurance, to pay for my mine Turbos failed and subsequently trashed the engine. ANticipate dcost to even get a salvaged engine. $20,000. And that engine will require a teardown to check the plugged screen. Just got my photos of the proof to send to lawfirm. My insurance company has tried every tactic to ware me out and not pay. My A8 has been sitting for 14 months!!

[wwhan]

Im in a potential lawsuit with my aftermarket insurance company, Endurance, to pay for my mine Turbos failed and subsequently trashed the engine. ANticipate dcost to even get a salvaged engine. $20,000. And that engine will require a teardown to check the plugged screen. Just got my photos of the proof to send to lawfirm. My insurance company has tried every tactic to ware me out and not pay. My A8 has been sitting for 14 months!!

How did the turbos trash the engine? Did turbo shrapnel get passed the charge cooler?

[rhinoboymtl]

How did the turbos trash the engine? Did turbo shrapnel get passed the charge cooler?

It could happen. I just dropped my oil pan last weekend and found several pieces of turbo bearing in the pan which could lead to catastrophic engine failure 119665

[wwhan]

It could happen. I just dropped my oil pan last weekend and found several pieces of turbo bearing in the pan which could lead to catastrophic engine failure 119665

Not good. I guess rapid turbo turbine failure is better than slow turbo bearing failure.

[rhinoboymtl]

Not good. I guess rapid turbo turbine failure is better than slow turbo bearing failure.

I think mine falls into the relatively rapid category. Started making whining noises on a Wednesday night and it was dead by Friday. But I guess the way in which my turbos failed was pretty bad. Bearings broke apart and turbine wheel was shredded. Perhaps not a typical case. In any case I think dropping the pan should be recommended for any turbo failure investigation now that I’ve seen what mine looked like.

[TD_05]

Can someone help educate me as to the following?

Which screens are most likely associated with failure?
Which if any are an improvement?
How do you tell what screen you have?

2016 S6

[OlyS6]

Can someone help educate me as to the following?

Which screens are most likely associated with failure?
Which if any are an improvement?
How do you tell what screen you have?

2016 S6

With a 2016 S6, you have an older screen that has been associated with clogging (079-115-175-F), resulting in turbo failure. You also have the older oil separator, 079-103-542-D.
(I have a 2016 S6 as well, and have replaced both, which is how I know).

For the screen, you want part number 079-115-175-G ($10 on audiusaparts.com). For the oil separator, you want part number 079-103-542-E ($297 on audiusaparts.com)

It is best to replace both of these at the same time, (since roughly 10hrs of labor is involved to get to them, replace them, and button the car back up), and they can be done simultaneously without having to repeat the labor.

[viceroy1976]

With a 2016 S6, you have an older screen that has been associated with clogging (079-115-175-F), resulting in turbo failure. You also have the older oil separator, 079-103-542-D.
(I have a 2016 S6 as well, and have replaced both, which is how I know).

For the screen, you want part number 079-115-175-G ($10 on audiusaparts.com). For the oil separator, you want part number 079-103-542-E ($297 on audiusaparts.com)

It is best to replace both of these at the same time, since roughly 10hrs of labor is involved to get to them, and they can be done simultaneously without having to repeat the labor.

10 hours? Seriously? I've just been quoted 2 hours to inspect those. Starting to think I was quoted just to inspect the turbos.

[OlyS6]

10 hours? Seriously? I've just been quoted 2 hours to inspect those. Starting to think I was quoted just to inspect the turbos.

10-12hrs total labor. Sadly, the turbo oil screen is buried deeply into the car. No way to inspect/replace it without taking off the front end, headlights, tilting the radiator assembly forward, and removing the obnoxiously large charge air cooler housing in order to even get to it. The oil separator is bolted to the bottom of the charge air cooler housing, so you can knock out 2 things at once by updating the oil separator and the turbo oil screen, since they require the same labor.

To inspect the turbos, you really only need to remove the hoses connected to the throttle body, and then you can remove the turbo inlets. This should take 1-2hrs, and is something you can do pretty easily yourself.

[wwhan]

More people need to file engine turbos complaints to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

There are 5 complaints on the 2013 S6 engine turbos: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/S6/4%252520DR/AWD#complaints

There are no complaints on the 2013 S7 engine turbos.

There is one complaints on the 2013 A8 engine turbos:https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/A8/4%252520DR/AWD

[Clipse3GT]

More people need to file engine turbos complaints to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

There are 5 complaints on the 2013 S6 engine turbos: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/S6/4%252520DR/AWD#complaints

There are no complaints on the 2013 S7 engine turbos.

There is one complaints on the 2013 A8 engine turbos:https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/A8/4%252520DR/AWD

I submitted mine with a 2016 S6. Everyone that has a failure please do so as well.

[scott99c2]

Mine went tonight on the way home from Cincinnati. 2013, 37k miles.

[mrdouble99]

I'm pretty sure mine are coming, i have a low intermitent low power and when it happen the boost slowly raise with the rpm, instead of going up one shot like it was before

[MadAboutCars]

Gosh, I can remember when people used to post about the reliability of the S6/7, especially the turbos, and the reply was minor issues like engine mounts etc. and that modern turbos are far more reliable than they used to be. Really a shame to see this happening. It has to be the worst nightmare for any manufacturer, as it's so hard to test for longer term/time failures like these.

[caddyrag67]

So I just finished replacing my screen and PVC valve on a 2017 S7 with 20000 miles as preventive maintenance I was very surprised to see crap in the screen that I took out with only 20,000 miles it wasn't chunks of metal it was like sediment from previous oil changesmaybe. I ended up using Molly motor clean ran 10 minutes flush the oil then I use synthetic cheap oil to flush that again and couldn't believe it was still black and then put good oil in after then change the oil screen , lines and pcv. I will load pictures of the screen later my question now is is it normal to have a little side movement on the turbo shaft? There was no in and out movement or any signs of wear on the housings is just I wiggled it and they move a little bit about the same for each

[Clipse3GT]

So I just finished replacing my screen and PVC valve on a 2017 S7 with 20000 miles as preventive maintenance I was very surprised to see crap in the screen that I took out with only 20,000 miles it wasn't chunks of metal it was like sediment from previous oil changesmaybe. I ended up using Molly motor clean ran 10 minutes flush the oil then I use synthetic cheap oil to flush that again and couldn't believe it was still black and then put good oil in after then change the oil screen , lines and pcv. I will load pictures of the screen later my question now is is it normal to have a little side movement on the turbo shaft? There was no in and out movement or any signs of wear on the housings is just I wiggled it and they move a little bit about the same for each

Yes, JB bearings need a little clearance for the oil. That gap fills up when oil under pressure starts flowing.

[mrdouble99]

found my problem, turbo are fine.

Vacuum hose that goes to the driver side wastegate actuator was not connected...... dealer work on my car for a missfire 2-3 month ago..

https://i.imgur.com/7coyD5Z.jpg

[VR4-S4]

I submitted mine with a 2016 S6. Everyone that has a failure please do so as well.

Only 3 complaints on that one.

I guess people like to bitch on forums but not where it actually matters.

[Clipse3GT]

Only 3 complaints on that one.

I guess people like to bitch on forums but not where it actually matters.

Yes, unfortunate because this is the only thing that will force Audi to recall the design as well as cover people that were out of pocket after warranty expired.

[rhinoboymtl]

I submitted mine with a 2016 S6. Everyone that has a failure please do so as well.

Submitted mine 2013 S7

[ArizonaA6]

More people need to file engine turbos complaints to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

There are 5 complaints on the 2013 S6 engine turbos: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/S6/4%252520DR/AWD#complaints

There are no complaints on the 2013 S7 engine turbos.

There is one complaints on the 2013 A8 engine turbos:https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2013/AUDI/A8/4%252520DR/AWD

Added my 2013 S6 turbo failure to the database.

[s4nicetry]

More people need to file engine turbos complaints to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Thanks wwhan, I just edited the first page with the link you posted for the NHTSA. I should have done this long ago, but hopefully some people still catch it and go and fill it out.

[2013_40tt]

I am in conversations with AoA and they encouraged us to submit complaints to NHTSA. Mine is in!

[daytona rs7]

can i submit a complaint to NHTSA without a failure?

[mintytoo]

can i submit a complaint to NHTSA without a failure?I guess you could, but you would have to put in a vin, and what would you write about? Another person's car or your own?

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[daytona rs7]

I guess you could, but you would have to put in a vin, and what would you write about? Another person's car or your own?

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my own car, as a concerned owner of an expected failure that can happen at a possible bad time (if there is ever a good time for a failure)?

I've already contacted AoA as a concerned owner. got a reply graciously telling me there is nothing for to do unless NHTSA requests they issue a recall.

[mintytoo]

my own car, as a concerned owner of an expected failure that can happen at a possible bad time (if there is ever a good time for a failure)?

I've already contacted AoA as a concerned owner. got a reply graciously telling me there is nothing for to do unless NHTSA requests they issue a recall.Hmm, do it. Can't hurt

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[Devman2013S7]

Filed my compliant (2013 Audi s7 failed at 81,000 miles, extended warranty covered it)


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[overclocked]

Should 2017 and 2018 be added to the poll?


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[s4nicetry]

Should 2017 and 2018 be added to the poll?


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I tried to previously and unfortunately wasn't able to add them to the poll.

[Clipse3GT]

I tried to previously and unfortunately wasn't able to add them to the poll.

Maybe just start a updated thread 2.0 version. Link the original to it.

[EvergreenS7]

Thanks for all the info shared in this thread. I own a 2015 S7, 35k miles and so far so good (I already responded to poll). But I am very nervous and concerned about the turbos as it seems like it happened when the cars have accumulated some miles. I am covered by my CPO warranty until 9/2020 so I have some time to decide if I want to continue with this car or move on. I do love the car and all the power it has plus it is Garnet Red Pearl with a Lunar Silver interior so I think the combo is stunning and hard to find.

One thing I am surprised has not been mentioned more is the 7/70 emissions warranty that cars in some states are eligible for. There was quite a bit of discussion on it over on Audiworld and that gives me some added warranty coverage; I live in Idaho but the car was originally sold and registered in Washington which is one of the states that qualifies for the 7/70 coverage, thanks People's Republic of California. Has anyone here used the extra emissions warranty to get their car fixed? I can only imagine most dealers would not know about it, except maybe in CA, and there would probably be some push back getting Audi to honor the emissions warranty. After getting immersed in Dieselgate for an inordinate amount of time ya think I would have moved on from Audi but they do make some nice cars at a much better price point than some other manufacturers.

[Respect23]

Hello everyone. I have a 2013 S6 that had blown turbos due to the oil filters clogging. This happened at 72k miles. Anyway I’m writing to ask if this has ever happened in a 2016 RS7? Or any RS7 for that matter? I’m looking to get one and I’m wondering if it’s something I should fix to prevent disaster in the future. Thank you for any answers in advance.


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[brilliant_black]

Hello everyone. I have a 2013 S6 that had blown turbos due to the oil filters clogging. This happened at 72k miles. Anyway I’m writing to ask if this has ever happened in a 2016 RS7? Or any RS7 for that matter? I’m looking to get one and I’m wondering if it’s something I should fix to prevent disaster in the future. Thank you for any answers in advance.


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In this thread a stock RS7 performance had the turbos blow.

My recommendation is buy a 4.0T only from 2018 or get an extended warranty for anything older.


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[MadAboutCars]

Hello everyone. I have a 2013 S6 that had blown turbos due to the oil filters clogging. This happened at 72k miles. Anyway I’m writing to ask if this has ever happened in a 2016 RS7? Or any RS7 for that matter? I’m looking to get one and I’m wondering if it’s something I should fix to prevent disaster in the future. Thank you for any answers in advance.


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While there has been some failures of turbos in 2016 or later models, there have been far less. This is likely due to the changes that had been made to the turbo oil screen and probably due to better tolerances in the turbos. The C7.5 saw a large number of part changes in the engine. Personally I would expect the turbo's to last longer in the C7.5, but like anything, mechanical failures will still occur.

[ichi d]

keep in mind there are probably more s6/s7 on the road then rs7. so the failure rate for the s car would be greater.

[brilliant_black]

keep in mind there are probably more s6/s7 on the road then rs7. so the failure rate for the s car would be greater.

TSB includes ALL C7/C7.5 4.0T till 2017

That’s why even facelifts are blowing turbos. They didn’t get the new screen till late 17 early 18 build dates.

Like I said. If you want a 4.0T get a warranty. People with low mileage had them blow. It’s safe to assume a lot of the used ones already have shortened life on the turbos.


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[wwhan]

keep in mind there are probably more s6/s7 on the road then rs7. so the failure rate for the s car would be greater.

There are also Bentley 4.0T (https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/4-0tt-turbo-failure-thread-s6-s7-rs7-a8-s8-2966653/page10/#post25291095) and Audi A8 4.0T (https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d4-platform-discussion-190/4-0tt-turbo-failure-thread-s6-s7-rs7-a8-s8-2966653/page23/)that have had this failure.

[Respect23]

Thank you all. That’s good information and great advice. Much appreciated. Especially the point about there being less rs7’s on the road and that being a factor in how many turbo failures there have been.
Any advise on a good warranty company when buying an rs7 from private party? Or are there even options for that?


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[msarette]

2016 S6 32k miles 100% stock. No issues so far


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[overclocked]

Mine is a 2018 model dealer said I don’t have the latest rev g version


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[overclocked]

If tuned does this warranty still apply?


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[brilliant_black]

If tuned does this warranty still apply?


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If you are tuned I hope you are tight with a service advisor....


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[overclocked]

I am, at the moment. But things can change. I do plan to do the stage 3 upgrade and TSB kit once the car is paid off anyhow, just hope my turbos don't break before the car is paid off!

[ichi d]

not sure if he is a member on here but he is running no oil screen after his turbos blew. there is no fallow up video yet and i wonder how its holding up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QqRPCeIvAA&t=639s

[jgoldstein2000]

Mine is a 2018 model dealer said I don’t have the latest rev g version


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What was your build date?


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[NorthSD S8]

Hi,

I just purchased a 2014 S8 stage 1 (unbeknownst when bought) w/48K about 4 weeks ago. After purchase, I pulled all service records and have a pretty good idea of my car's condition. I have scheduled with my Indy shop next week for the preventative maintenance service to hopefully avoid turbo failure via oil starvation. Will also be changing out oil/filter every 3K and will be doing at least an initial oil flush to get to the car to a known baseline.

I filed a complaint with NHTSA, noting the TSB 2044640 and the safety issues due to the surprise nature of how this issue manifests. I filed this with the description that Audi should prevent the turbos from failing by swapping out to the redesigned oil screen and replace the check valve proactively.

I noticed that there are maybe 5-6 turbo complaints on the 2013 S8. However there are 0 for 2014, 1 for 2015 and also 0 for 2016. The number of failures reported in this poll are 2013:45, 2014:9, 2015:4, 2016:5.

I hope that everyone here, in both camps of already failed and not failed yet, all file a complaint to get Audi to act.

Here is the link: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Takes just a few minutes and it feels pretty good to vent. I hoping my complaint today is published soon by NHTSA.

[NorthSD S8]

Checking the RS7 metrics on NHTSA; there is 1 2016 complaint on this engine and 0 for 2013-2015.

wwhan made the same point on this thread regarding 4.0 TT engine models and notifying NHTSA for turbo failures.

Anecdote: I have talked at some length with 3 different service techs at Audi in south Orange County, CA about this turbo failure TSB. All 3 were emphatic that the issue is isolated to very very few cars with this engine and that the online forums are blowing this issue out of proportion. At least one mechanic said he has never seen a vehicle with this issue in the shop.

My takeaway is that without data, Audi will never act and invoke a recall. From looking at S8 and RS7 complaint metrics, there is no reason for NHTSA or Audi to act. When researching the work done and not done on my just-purchased 2014 S8, the rank and file mechanics at at least this one Audi dealership feel that this turbo issue is 'fake news'. So unless the data is there to support a recall for this very real issue, nothing will get done. So file a complaint pls if you have not done so. You can file even if your turbos have not yet blown like I did, just cite the safety aspects of this randomly occurring issue and the fact that you have already or may shell out significant ducats for changing out the oil screen and check valve. I personally feel that if Audi needs to service the PVC value due to whistling/CEL, they must include in that TSB to swap out the oil screen and check valve. I realize the economics of Audi being proactive rather than reactive may not make total cents :), however a more supportive customer base that re-purchases future Audis and gives glowing reviews should be part of their calculus.

[Cris_OO7]

Checking the RS7 metrics on nhrsa; there is 1 2016 complaint on this engine and 0 for 2013-2015.

wwhan was make the same point on this thread regarding 4.0 TT engine models.

Anecdote: I have talking at some length with 3 different service techs at Audi in south Orange County, Calif about this turbo failure TSB. All 3 were emphatic that the issue is isolated to very very few cars with this engine and the online forums are blowing this issue out of proportion. At least one said he has never seen or treated the issue.

My takeaway is that without data, Audi will never act on this issue and invoke a recall. From looking at S8 and RS7 complaint metrics, there is no reason for NHTSA or Audi to act. When researching the work done and not done on my just-purchased 2014 S8, the rank and file mechanics at at least this one Audi dealership feel that this turbo issue is 'fake news'. So unless the data is there to support a recall for this very real issue, nothing will get done. So file a complaint pls if you have not done so. You can file even if your turbos have not yet blown like I did, just cite the safety aspects of this randomly occurring issue and the fact that you have or may shell out significant ducats for changing out the oil screen and check valve. I personally feel that if Audi needs to service the PVC value due to whistling/CEL, they must include in that TSB to swap out the oil screen and check valve. I realize the economics of Audi being proactive rather than reactive may not make total cents :), however a more supportive customer base that re-purchases future Audis and gives glowing reviews should be part of their calculus.

Just finished filling


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[Orch]

My oil screen after 70k miles, 2012 S6.

https://i.gyazo.com/37c316313879b32396889d9c9d16489b.png

https://i.gyazo.com/0eb7536e810d7f3641d48b10922e005b.jpg

Revision G now installed.

Turbo's had very slight up and down play but no lateral.

[spife]

126396
Apparently it was penetrated while inside the engine so effectively a passthrough was created... which kinda eliminated the clogging issue. 2013 s6 slightly more than 120,000 km on odo. The car runs fine with the broken screen...

[ichi d]

Stating to think you don't need a screen.

[audinutt]

This is my thought remove the damn screen... long live the turbos

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[mintytoo]

126396
Apparently it was penetrated while inside the engine so effectively a passthrough was created... which kinda eliminated the clogging issue. 2013 s6 slightly more than 120,000 km on odo. The car runs fine with the broken screen...So what made that hole and what did it lodged itself into now?

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[spife]

No idea,my mechanic didn’t explain much. The car runs fine for now. If any fragment of the screen has reached the turbo, it should be dead by now. My turbos do have some play, so they will need to be replaced in the future.

[daytona rs7]

No idea,my mechanic didn’t explain much. The car runs fine for now. If any fragment of the screen has reached the turbo, it should be dead by now. My turbos do have some play, so they will need to be replaced in the future.

id be more concerned with what created the hole, rather than the fragment of the screen.


with that said, in the next 2-3 weeks ill be removing my screen. ill provide long term updates.

[s4nicetry]

Update: Just hit 100,000km and stock turbos are still tip top. I just got back from a ~3000km road trip around the PNW with the wifey and our dog, mostly in the mountains and had a great time. Right before I left I replaced the PCV, feed screen, check valve, gaskets, o-rings etc. as preventative and was a little leery since I was hitting the road the very next day but everything worked out well. I also rotated all of the turbos fittings while I was in there so when the day comes to upgrade the swap should be pretty quick and easy. My turbos were still in good shape, I first checked them when installing the SRM intakes but after a few thousand more km's nothing had visibly degraded. Even the DS turbo is very clean with little to know oil residue telling me my original "B" Oil Separator was still up to the task. Oh well, I thought it best to throw in the "E" anyways. Screen was looking pretty clogged though, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to leave it in any longer. I initially was a bit worried about damage already being done to the turbos bearings but 3000km's of enthusiastic driving with extensive use of the go pedal in the mountains tells me everything is a-okay.

https://i.imgur.com/qEReigP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Lal9uaB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HxCMuB4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XdD1TRH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/739z8lc.jpg

[kpriv]

Update: Just hit 100,000km and stock turbos are still tip top. I just got back from a ~3000km road trip around the PNW with the wifey and our dog, mostly in the mountains and had a great time. Right before I left I replaced the PCV, feed screen, check valve, gaskets, o-rings etc.

Nice update. Out of curiosity, what has your oil change interval been? Have you had the car since new?



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[s4nicetry]

Nice update. Out of curiosity, what has your oil change interval been? Have you had the car since new?



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I've had it for about 30,000km now and have been changing every ~8,000km. Dealership said all scheduled maintenance was done on time by the previous owner, that's all they would tell me. So probably just the 15,000km oil change intervals before me.

[RAF_S7]

Update: Just hit 100,000km and stock turbos are still tip top. I just got back from a ~3000km road trip around the PNW with the wifey and our dog, mostly in the mountains and had a great time. Right before I left I replaced the PCV, feed screen, check valve, gaskets, o-rings etc. as preventative and was a little leery since I was hitting the road the very next day but everything worked out well. I also rotated all of the turbos fittings while I was in there so when the day comes to upgrade the swap should be pretty quick and easy. My turbos were still in good shape, I first checked them when installing the SRM intakes but after a few thousand more km's nothing had visibly degraded. Even the DS turbo is very clean with little to know oil residue telling me my original "B" Oil Separator was still up to the task. Oh well, I thought it best to throw in the "E" anyways. Screen was looking pretty clogged though, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to leave it in any longer. I initially was a bit worried about damage already being done to the turbos bearings but 3000km's of enthusiastic driving with extensive use of the go pedal in the mountains tells me everything is OK

Looks like you caught the oil screens just in time!

Did you buy all the parts individually, or go with the SRM service kit (or similar..) [wrench]

[s4nicetry]

Looks like you caught the oil screens just in time!

Did you buy all the parts individually, or go with the SRM service kit (or similar..) [wrench]

I got my parts separately, as I didn't need any turbo hardware in the SRM kit besides the two o-rings for the bottom connection on the feed lines, and a few other items in the kit weren't necessary for me. All in I was around $400USD

[Brittjames]

Just curious...but I have a 2016 S6 with revision D oil separator and idk what screen I have. But 42k miles no issues as of yet..but just curious. Is it possible when u do an oil change to possible drain the oil then pop off both oil feed lines and maybe blow a little burst or 2 of high pressure air to maybe if u have crud on the strainer to maybe knock it off?? Not blow real hard but just a little pop or 2. If u were to do that..I heard there was a little slant catch area to catch some of the crud if it falls off the screen. Is that maybe possible?? Just like a little pre caution at oil changes

[Brittjames]

Could u just remove the screen completely??? I heard jb turbos dont nessecary need restrictive flow and you already have an oil filter to catch anything already ???

[daytona rs7]

i will be removing my screen in the upcoming weeks. and not adding an inline filter.
will be doing 5k OCI going forward

[gk1]

I've had it for about 30,000km now and have been changing every ~8,000km. Dealership said all scheduled maintenance was done on time by the previous owner, that's all they would tell me. So probably just the 15,000km oil change intervals before me.

For clarity.
For the first 70,000km (43,500 miles) the 15,000km (10,000 mile) oil changes with dealer Castrol.
And the last 30,000km (18,600 miles) were 8,000km (5,000 mile ) oil changes. With what type of oil?

[s4nicetry]

For clarity.
For the first 70,000km (43,500 miles) the 15,000km (10,000 mile) oil changes with dealer Castrol.
And the last 30,000km (18,600 miles) were 8,000km (5,000 mile ) oil changes. With what type of oil?

That is correct, but there is no way to know if the original owner was doing additional changes or not, I am assuming he wasn't. My changes have been with oem filter and Rotella T6 (Use on all my turbocharged cars for many years) until the last change I decided to test out Mobil 1 0w-40 based on this engineers test blog I read. (Great read, tons of good info)
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

[gk1]

AFAIK in regards to previous Oil Changes that is correct. There is no way to know if the original owner was doing additional changes or not, but I assume he wasn't. My changes have been with oem filter and Rotella T6 (Use on all my turbocharged cars for many years) until the last change I decided to test out Mobil 1 0w-40 based on this engineers test blog I read. (Great read, tons of good info)
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

OK good to know.
BTW even though I've heard Shell Rotella T6 is a very good oil it is not on Audi's approved list. (for whatever reason). Only Shell on the list is Helix Ultra. That does not mean it is a bad oil, just not VW502 approved. (Amsoil and others are also not on the list but are excellent oils.)
Mobil 1 0w-40 is on the list.

[s4nicetry]

OK good to know.
BTW even though I've heard Shell Rotella T6 is a very good oil it is not on Audi's approved list. (for whatever reason). Only Shell on the list is Helix Ultra. That does not mean it is a bad oil, just not VW502 approved. (Amsoil and others are also not on the list but are excellent oils.)
Mobil 1 0w-40 is on the list.

As much as it bothers some, I've never really followed the "manufacturer approved" lists before with any of my vehicles.

[wwhan]

My 2016 has a sticker under the hood indicating approved oils are 502 & 504.

[Dasquade]

Maybe offtopic a bit but...forum member "tuner1" from Italy was going stage 3 and was checking/changing his oil screen. Guess what...bursted oil screen. Ripped from the outer side with cut going 1/4 to center. Screen was pretty cluttered from what i could see. Rs6 40.000km with 10.000km oil service intervals. Maybe he will post later one but bussy with the stage 3 atm but wanted to share.

I noticed at least one other member had a split/bursted oil screen before. Not sure if it was descovered on a preventive change or after turbo fail. It just makes me think.....could this be a common thing AND many of us actually have a bursted oilscreen witch could be a turbo safer. If it hadnt bursted under the pressure most likely it would of cluttered all up and starved the turbos!

$hity the screen is so hard/labor intense to have a look at as i'm very curious. Just gone over the 100.000km with mine (stage 2 with 5.000km oil changes/every 10.000km cleaner + oil treadment).

Just wanted to throw it in the topic...maybe more hidden bursted screen among us then we actually know and for those the secret of long lasted oil feeded turbos??
EDIT: adding his picture...F revision screen
129119

Personally, i hope mine is bursted aswell! Rather have a bursted one keeping flow going then a blocked one. Especially since i do oil changes every 5.000km and do the oil cleaning every 10.000km i hope i keep the internals and sludge/carbon etc on the low side...

[Dasquade]

Maybe wrong again but maybe there is can also be effect on bursted oilscreen and a good working old pvc? If not mistaken the pvc fails due to overpressure in the system...a blocking oilscreen will most likely cause pressure build up in the pvc. Or the pvc starts to fail..or the oil screen gives away.
Just my 2 cents thoughts on it...

[xiaphin]

I tried to previously and unfortunately wasn't able to add them to the poll.

Be nice if we could capture data for those years as well. In the market for an S7 and am looking for a 2016-2017 but now considering 2018 after reading the latest TSB.

[s4nicetry]

Be nice if we could capture data for those years as well. In the market for an S7 and am looking for a 2016-2017 but now considering 2018 after reading the latest TSB.

You can start another poll if you really want too. I'm not very concerned, they will have less failures than the 2016's in which 6 out of 58 have reported failures to date.

[Dasquade]

So nobody has a comment on the bursted oil screen? :)

[s4nicetry]

I'm thinking just excessive pressure from the blockage, old run down screen that's been through one too many heat cycles opened up and relieved the pressure. Don't think it's very common, at least not many have posted about theirs being ripped, and no idea if the clogged screen would be the cause for these shitty PCV units to fail? You might be onto something.

[DocTJ]

You can start another poll if you really want too. I'm not very concerned, they will have less failures than the 2016's in which 6 out of 58 have reported failures to date.

my only concern is what if someone initially said no, and then they had a failure, they're not able to change their vote unfortunately. So it captures data at a certain time and isn't a longitudinal one per say.

[s4nicetry]

my only concern is what if someone initially said no, and then they had a failure, they're not able to change their vote unfortunately. So it captures data at a certain time and isn't a longitudinal one per say.

This is true, numbers are going to change for sure. A number of people have already said they've failed after the fact. This was just to get a general idea of the failures that were/are occurring and not just guessing. It would be great if people could change their vote in this case but there's nothing that can be done now without starting a 2.0, I don't think it would be worth it yet, votes are still coming in.

[Dasquade]

I'm thinking just excessive pressure from the blockage, old run down screen that's been through one too many heat cycles opened up and relieved the pressure. Don't think it's very common, at least not many have posted about theirs being ripped, and no idea if the clogged screen would be the cause for these shitty PCV units to fail? You might be onto something.
Thinking the same, but also..how many have actually replaced or checked their screen yet? Most only do once it is too late (if turbo's fail)...Anyway :)

[s4nicetry]

Thinking the same, but also..how many have actually replaced or checked their screen yet? Most only do once it is too late (if turbo's fail)...Anyway :)

I'm sure in an overall percentage of 4.0T ownership, the amount of people who've had theirs changed so far is on the lower side of the scale, but a number here have been posting their "screen shots" so to speak with quite a few on FB as well. Now that the screen has been confirmed as a major source for the failure those numbers will continue to grow.

[VR4-S4]

I just received an email from the NHTSA to provide them with as much information as I can about the turbo failure. Anyone else get this?

[Hofahome]

I just received an email from the NHTSA to provide them with as much information as I can about the turbo failure. Anyone else get this?

I did not get it but nice to see that the issue will be looked at considering there are typically no symptoms until the turbos suddenly die and the car loses power. The screen/location/lack of oil pressure monitoring was a poor design by Audi, plain and simple.


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[Devman2013S7]

I just received an email from the NHTSA to provide them with as much information as I can about the turbo failure. Anyone else get this?

I just got my email from them as well!

2013 S7 Phantom Black Pearl


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[mintytoo]

I just got my email from them as well!

2013 S7 Phantom Black Pearl


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Did you guys file complaints in the past and that's how they got in contact?

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[VR4-S4]

Did you guys file complaints in the past and that's how they got in contact?

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Yes, I filed a complaint online.

[Devman2013S7]

Yes, I filed a complaint online.

Yep same for me, I filed a complaint online.


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[BigTex]

I just received an email from the NHTSA to provide them with as much information as I can about the turbo failure. Anyone else get this?

I received one too.


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[mintytoo]

Nice! Sounds like someone is actually listening. Thank you guys for filing.

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[wwhan]

from https://www.nhtsa.gov website: The Steps From Complaint To Recall PDF, 5.56 MB (https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/steps-complaint-recall)

On the NHTSA website, there are only 7 complaints about turbo failure on the 2013 S6 and 3 on the 2013 S7, no complaints on 2013 RS7.

There are 48 posted failures of 2013 C7 4.0T in the poll. A lot more people should probably post a complaint on NHTSA.

[Devman2013S7]

from https://www.nhtsa.gov website: The Steps From Complaint To Recall PDF, 5.56 MB (https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/steps-complaint-recall)

On the NHTSA website, there are only 7 complaints about turbo failure on the 2013 S6 and 3 on the 2013 S7, no complaints on 2013 RS7.

There are 48 posted failures of 2013 C7 4.0T in the poll. A lot more people should probably post a complaint on NHTSA.

Yes! Everyone, If you’ve had a turbo failure, please, please post. We need to get as much traction as possible.


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[wcinpa]

from https://www.nhtsa.gov website: The Steps From Complaint To Recall PDF, 5.56 MB (https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/steps-complaint-recall)

On the NHTSA website, there are only 7 complaints about turbo failure on the 2013 S6 and 3 on the 2013 S7, no complaints on 2013 RS7.

There are 48 posted failures of 2013 C7 4.0T in the poll. A lot more people should probably post a complaint on NHTSA.

Strange because I posted my bone stock 2014 RS7 turbo failure at 39k miles to the NHTSA several weeks ago. I was also contacted by them today.

[wwhan]

Strange because I posted my bone stock 2014 RS7 turbo failure at 39k miles to the NHTSA several weeks ago. I was also contacted by them today.

Complaints on the NHTSA website are listed seperately for each year and model.

The 2013 RS7 complaints are listed separately from the 2014 RS7 complaints.

[rhinoboymtl]

I just received an email from the NHTSA to provide them with as much information as I can about the turbo failure. Anyone else get this?

Yep I got one also.

[allewel2]

Yep I got one also.

Interesting. I have *not* got one (2013 S6) and I submitted a NHTSA complaint back in 4/2018. I hope I entered it in right.

[wwhan]

Interesting. I have *not* got one (2013 S6) and I submitted a NHTSA complaint back in 4/2018. I hope I entered it in right.

Well, one can see this one (turbo fail):

"May 4, 2018 NHTSA ID NUMBER: 11091979
Components: ENGINE
NHTSA ID Number: 11091979

Incident Date April 6, 2018

Consumer Location PLAINFIELD, IL

Vehicle Identification Number WAUF2AFC0DN****"

[allewel2]

Well, one can see this one (turbo fail):

"May 4, 2018 NHTSA ID NUMBER: 11091979
Components: ENGINE
NHTSA ID Number: 11091979

Incident Date April 6, 2018

Consumer Location PLAINFIELD, IL

Vehicle Identification Number WAUF2AFC0DN****"

Oops - yep, that's definitely me. I wasn't aware you could comb-through all of the complaint/comments like that. Neat.

Hopefully this results in a recall and we can get some of our money back from the poor design.

[Bdubs]

Interesting. Wondering if this will go the route of the PCV extended warranty that came out back in May...

[speed_junkie]

2014 S7 75k miles (APR Stage 1 last 30k miles)
Technically not blown. For preventative measures had my mechanic inspect turbos and change oil screen this week. Pass side turbo looks good but does have some play. Driver's side turbo looks a bit black and one of the fins is slightly bent (likely caught this just in time). Haven't gotten to oil screen yet but ordering Stage 3 parts this week.

[mintytoo]

2014 S7 75k miles (APR Stage 1 last 30k miles) and technically not blown. For preventative measures had my mechanic inspect turbos and change oil screen this week. Pass side turbo looks good but does have some play. Driver's side turbo looks a bit black and one of the fins is slightly bent (likely caught this just in time). Haven't gotten to oil screen yet but ordering Stage 3 parts this week.Post some pics if you have them. Thanks

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[Bdubs]

Well, unfortunately, I forgot to ask for pics and by the time I remembered, it was too late...but my 2016 S6 was in for the oil separator repair and while in, I was able to have them R&R the turbos - screens, etc and replaced a check valve part 079-103-175-C for all of $192.41.

Just a heads up, if anyone else has to take their car in for the wailing oil separator, talk to the service techs about doing the preventative on your turbos at the same time. Everything is already stripped down...they added an extra hour of labor and since I know the dealer well, they covered a huge chunk of the cost for parts.

[ItsLarryG]

I bought the car with 80k way under KBB with clean carfax. Turbos were replaced 10 months prior (1/2018), so guessing 70k mile range. I was so excited to hear they were new because I didn’t know to ask before buying that I forgot to ask the mileage. Audi TSB was released 11/2017 so oil screen was G rev.

[chyates]

Well, unfortunately, I forgot to ask for pics and by the time I remembered, it was too late...but my 2016 S6 was in for the oil separator repair and while in, I was able to have them R&R the turbos - screens, etc and replaced a check valve part 079-103-175-C for all of $192.41.

Just a heads up, if anyone else has to take their car in for the wailing oil separator, talk to the service techs about doing the preventative on your turbos at the same time. Everything is already stripped down...they added an extra hour of labor and since I know the dealer well, they covered a huge chunk of the cost for parts.

How many miles when the oil separator went?

[Bdubs]

How many miles when the oil separator went?

I was just over 53.5k miles.

[speed_junkie]

Post some pics if you have them. Thanks

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Pass side looks ok but did have some shaft play
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67312505_10216542588409922_6443402936386060288_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmpPn0tfI1vs1Rsdo3xXw2i6sxJk7P-bwXk-FhXZOuX9qi_aRpUuICbVsTD2MSLM-E&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=bc9e4ff213405070645fdde9b73a46bd&oe=5DA3256A

Driver's side looking hot & crusty + shaft play + has a bent fin (car drove fine and still felt like it had plenty of Stage 1 power)
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67091690_10216542588089914_8899631536819666944_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQkeM1vq7LdeE-WVSuew0cn2avnxN97LHUIDdarFM-N-KCVvi8vVC1LkGgFGZKAJ9xQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=f7afbb5444d0f23c16b39d8d98f79288&oe=5DB12E56

[mintytoo]

Pass side looks ok but did have some shaft play
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67312505_10216542588409922_6443402936386060288_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmpPn0tfI1vs1Rsdo3xXw2i6sxJk7P-bwXk-FhXZOuX9qi_aRpUuICbVsTD2MSLM-E&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=bc9e4ff213405070645fdde9b73a46bd&oe=5DA3256A

Driver's side looking hot & crusty + shaft play + has a bent fin (car drove fine and still felt like it had plenty of Stage 1 power)
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67091690_10216542588089914_8899631536819666944_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQkeM1vq7LdeE-WVSuew0cn2avnxN97LHUIDdarFM-N-KCVvi8vVC1LkGgFGZKAJ9xQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=f7afbb5444d0f23c16b39d8d98f79288&oe=5DB12E56That's interesting that there was bent fins. Was there any scoring visible in the housing? Also were you running an open intake by any chance?

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[mintytoo]

A little off topic but the other thread is not getting much traction. I'm about to get some used turbos but I'm not installing for at least 6 months, is there any preventative maintenance, flushing, cleaning I need to perform on these turbos before storage. (Yes, I'll check to make sure there's nothing damage before storage)

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[s4nicetry]

Pass side looks ok but did have some shaft play
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67312505_10216542588409922_6443402936386060288_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmpPn0tfI1vs1Rsdo3xXw2i6sxJk7P-bwXk-FhXZOuX9qi_aRpUuICbVsTD2MSLM-E&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=bc9e4ff213405070645fdde9b73a46bd&oe=5DA3256A

Driver's side looking hot & crusty + shaft play + has a bent fin (car drove fine and still felt like it had plenty of Stage 1 power)
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67091690_10216542588089914_8899631536819666944_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQkeM1vq7LdeE-WVSuew0cn2avnxN97LHUIDdarFM-N-KCVvi8vVC1LkGgFGZKAJ9xQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=f7afbb5444d0f23c16b39d8d98f79288&oe=5DB12E56

Interesting to see the fin bent like that, doesn't seem like there's any impact marks causing it to do that. Excessive heat maybe? Either way that bent fin can really affect the turbos balance and with shaft play as your saying, I wouldn't think it has much time left.

[speed_junkie]

That's interesting that there was bent fins. Was there any scoring visible in the housing? Also were you running an open intake by any chance?

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Didn't really look too deep inside, I'll have more pics once these are out and the new SRM turbos are in :)
Running a stock intake/filter

[mintytoo]

Didn't really look too deep inside, I'll have more pics once these are out and the new SRM turbos are in :)
Running a stock intake/filterYay, stage 3!

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[wwhan]

A little off topic but the other thread is not getting much traction. I'm about to get some used turbos but I'm not installing for at least 6 months, is there any preventative maintenance, flushing, cleaning I need to perform on these turbos before storage. (Yes, I'll check to make sure there's nothing damage before storage)

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I would get them torn down and inspected. Here are a couple of possible companies...

Majestic Turbo Waco: https://majesticturbo.com/services/
815 Jefferson Ave.
Waco, TX 76701
[email protected]
(254) 757-3759

M&D Distributors : https://www.mddistributors.com/services/turbochargers/
Locations in Houston:
https://www.mddistributors.com/houston-north-shepherd/
https://www.mddistributors.com/houston-navigation-boulevard/

[subterFUSE]

FWIW I just did a quick spreadsheet on the results for this poll as of today.

Not looking good for 2013 models. Almost 40% of poll respondents had blown turbos. [o_o]


132188

[OlyS6]

I imagine that the number of positive responses is a reflection of selection bias (I'd be really pissed too!) Not sure how many 2013 S6's were sold in the US, but even 50 out of 10,000 would be way too many.

[daytona rs7]

removed my screen today, and installed the JHM filter relocation kit.

photo of my screen.
no symptoms of bad turbos, just posting this for reference. MY17 RS7, build date is early in 2017, with screen revision D. 21k miles. oil changes were at 9k and 18k.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UUUriRcu-1L_x-ZkS7WHMEDW-tUr0RZnyCCRZ20rgj_7tJ8CQ_tBwBUjZb_P6boo_6GIqM0WY4-3q01j17kHe5KuyRpw8BstVjXO8yq8lybNtn5j8RMuPlkPBOe8_ Xz0QX49a3bbBRc=w800

[ItsLarryG]

FWIW I just did a quick spreadsheet on the results for this poll as of today.

Not looking good for 2013 models. Almost 40% of poll respondents had blown turbos. [o_o]


132188

I work for an OEM outside the auto industry, but auto is normally considered a target for quality rates. 2.0% is considered catastrophic failure and we would need to spend TONS of money to rectify. I know the forums are a vocal few, but 40% and not a recall or blanket warranty coverage blows my mind. If I shared this with our quality engineers they would shit a brick and start updating their resumes.

[motsnevets34]

Wish I would have done more research on this. Just bought a used 2013 A8L w/ 4.0T from a dealer near Chicago. 1 owner car, corporate-owned. Full dealer maintained service records. Car had 82000 miles.
Turbos blown less than 500 miles from the dealer.

Picked up the SRM turbos and oil separator kit. Car at the shop for repairs now. No recourse from the dealer or AoA.

Complaint has been filed with the NHTSA. Been an Audi owner for years. Probably going to sell this one once fixed.

[DocTJ]

Wish I would have done more research on this. Just bought a used 2013 A8L w/ 4.0T from a dealer near Chicago. 1 owner car, corporate-owned. Full dealer maintained service records. Car had 82000 miles.
Turbos blown less than 500 miles from the dealer.

Picked up the SRM turbos and oil separator kit. Car at the shop for repairs now. No recourse from the dealer or AoA.

Complaint has been filed with the NHTSA. Been an Audi owner for years. Probably going to sell this one once fixed.



sorry to hear :(

[Devman2013S7]

Wish I would have done more research on this. Just bought a used 2013 A8L w/ 4.0T from a dealer near Chicago. 1 owner car, corporate-owned. Full dealer maintained service records. Car had 82000 miles.
Turbos blown less than 500 miles from the dealer.

Picked up the SRM turbos and oil separator kit. Car at the shop for repairs now. No recourse from the dealer or AoA.

Complaint has been filed with the NHTSA. Been an Audi owner for years. Probably going to sell this one once fixed.

Wow usually a dealer will give you a 2000 mile grace period warranty for the power train when driven off the lot......[emoji53]


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[brilliant_black]

sorry to hear :(

Don’t dealers offer like a 14 day warranty or anything?


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[15 Phantom S6]

Wish I would have done more research on this. Just bought a used 2013 A8L w/ 4.0T from a dealer near Chicago. 1 owner car, corporate-owned. Full dealer maintained service records. Car had 82000 miles.
Turbos blown less than 500 miles from the dealer.

Picked up the SRM turbos and oil separator kit. Car at the shop for repairs now. No recourse from the dealer or AoA.

Complaint has been filed with the NHTSA. Been an Audi owner for years. Probably going to sell this one once fixed.

Sorry to hear that.. I know you've got a bad taste in your mouth right now since it seems you got screwed, but if it makes any difference, your car might be problem free for years after you do those fixes, as it's the probably the most expensive and common failures this platform has... You technically should have some good trouble free driving ahead of you after this fix if the car was taken care of like you mention..

Be sure to replace the turbo oil screen and check valve when replacing the turbos and oil separator or you'll be in the same situation real quick.

[motsnevets34]

Bought from a Mercedes dealer and regrettably didn't purchase the extended warranty ($4K). I'm looking have the ignition kit done too while its torn apart. Have to chalk this expensive lesson up to 'buyer beware'.

[mintytoo]

Bought from a Mercedes dealer and regrettably didn't purchase the extended warranty ($4K). I'm looking have the ignition kit done too while its torn apart. Have to chalk this expensive lesson up to 'buyer beware'.What's the ignition kit? Remote start?

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[motsnevets34]

New plugs, etc. Recommeded replacment at 100K anyway.