The APR RS3 Development Car is here!

[Arin@APR]

We purchased a new RS3 for development and it showed up yesterday. First up: ECU Upgrade. Stay tuned!

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20393652_361320450952667_7884149617045012480_n.jpg
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20347079_328296914262722_4459002933236727808_n.jpg


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The 2.5 TFSI found in the brand new TTRS and facelifted RS3 sedan is a totally new 5-cylinder engine from Audi including an all new version of Bosch’s MED17.1.62 engine management system. The engine differs from other 5 cylinders in the past, using a brand new turbo, with a new control strategy, new dual injection system and new engine block material among other changes. We’re in uncharted territories tuning this new amazing platform!

With any new project that vastly differs from others in the past, our engineers take a cautious and thorough approach to tuning the engine. This starts with data collection. Our APR ECU Explorer logging tool give us direct access to the entire ECU. That means we can read every sensor within the engine bay, and every single calculation taking place within the ECU, at extremely high data rates. This data resolution is second to none, leaving our tuners with the ability to see everything as it happens, with the ability to trace back to why it happened within the ECU. This allows our engineers to understand the ECU algorithms and strategies better than the competition. This is contrary to others relying on OBDII diagnostic channels, which gives poor and limited data used for general diagnostics, not tuning.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ecux.jpg

However, even with this powerful tool, it’s not enough. When Audi tuned this engine, they did so with many more sensors installed, which they later removed and modeled into the ECU. By doing so, they saved money and can deliver a system that is modeled very accurately given the original operating parameters. With sensors removed, the engine management system predicts/models mass flow, pressures, temperatures and other measurements at various places within the engine system by basing those outputs on their relationships with other measured values. However, once you begin tuning the ECU, or changing hardware, these models are no longer very accurate! We need to add those sensors back during the tuning process to correct the incorrect/broken models, and provide a top tier ECU calibration.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/turbo-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/downpipe-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/exhaustpressure-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/probes-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intake-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/dash-579x434.jpg

Our R&D team has installed a MoteC C125 Dash with various high resolution, and high data rate sensors all around the engine to collect critical data for our engineering team. This includes, but is not limited to Race-grade thermocouples and pressure sensors before and after the intercooler and at various places in the intake system to locate restrictions. We’ve also added exhaust manifold pressure sensors and exhaust gas thermocouples to the turbocharger to ensure our calibrations are well within critical engine limitations (shaft speed, EMAP, EGT, surge region operation, lambda sensor pressure and temperature compensation). With MoteC’s i2Pro software, we’re able to analyze and deliver critical data to our calibration and hardware teams create better calibrations and create new hardware products.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/motecrs3-579x348.jpg

With the guess work eliminated, we’re able to deliver a better product.

Software
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/graph.jpg

Hardware
https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20687266_177091312834715_4815249476639784960_n.jpg
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intercooler.jpg

... More to come ...

Stay tuned!


- Testin Updates -

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/rs3-incar-579x326.png (http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/rs3-incar.png)

For the past several months, our engineers have meticulously tested and tuned the new 2.5 TFSI found in the Audi RS3 Sedan and TTRS. This has included hundreds of dyno pulls, over 40 passes at the drag strip and more than 50 laps around Road Atlanta. You can read more about our testing and instrumentation here: APR RS3 Sedan Testing and Tuning Update! (http://goapr.io/9nyfm)
Drag Strip:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1x-LbrP4Dg

We visited our local drag strip, Montgomery Motorsport Park, to test the factory software vs our development software for the 2.5 TFSI found in our RS3 Sedan. In terms of engine / performance hardware, we tested our software only, leaving items such as the intake, exhaust, intercooler, fueling and more completely stock. The vehicle was equipped with Toyo R888 tires for added grip. Please Note: Date/Time stamps are 55 minutes ahead of the actual time.

First, we ran the stock tune on 93 octane, full weight (DA: ~600 FT):

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Next, we flashed the ECU to our development Stage 1 tune on 93 octane, full weight (DA ~800 FT):

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Satisfied with these results we added ethanol from the pump and switched to our development Stage 1 ethanol tune and ran full weight for a single pass (DA: ~125 FT):

[email protected]

Lastly we put the RS3 on a 5 minute track diet, pulling the seats, saving around 150 lbs (DA: ~100 FT):

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Time Slips:

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/slips-579x479.png (http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/slips.png)

Road Course Testing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-l2i_k-_gI

Following our successful outing at the drag strip, we headed to Road Atlanta for some brutal track testing. Testing on a road course puts the vehicle through some of the most demanding conditions. The engine is run at full tilt lap after lap, putting it through stress otherwise not seen on the road. In doing so, our calibration team is able to learn valuable information about how the engine handles the increased power in demanding situations our customers may experience. We tested each mode, Drive, Sport, and Manual, and were happy with the performance. Our RS3 was outfitted with our development APR 93 and Ethanol ECU Upgrades (as well as stock), APR 19x8.5 forged wheels with a previously used set of Pirelli Trofeo R tires, and APR Development Lowering Springs at full vehicle weight.

Race Report from our Driver, Ian Baas:

Good Morning,

Thanks for a successful weekend everyone! The Car and Calibration was perfect and I’ve never been more excited about an APR release in my life. Most production street cars I’ve tested almost always show their weak points within 5-10 laps of any high performance track event. The RS3 Sedan excelled during the entire test and I am sure this product will perform flawlessly in street conditions as it sits currently!

I really cannot stress enough how much this car exceeded my expectations!

Best Time:
RS3 Stage 1 (93 Octane Map)
1:45.60 (RA Wet/Dry Conditions)

S3 Stage 3+ (93 Octane Map)
1:39.10 (RA Dry Conditions, earlier in the year)

For Comparison sake these are Rain Times (https://sportscarchampionship.imsa.com/schedule-results/current-results?eventid=75&sessid=550) during this year’s Petit Le Mans Practice… Not bad!

APR Engine/Calibration:
A+
Car performed very well during each Octane tested (Stage 1 E85, Stage 1 93, Stock). Power was strong and on demand throughout each outing. (+/- 10 laps per outing. 55 laps in total.)
Engine Cooling was nominal, I saw little to no fluctuation, holding 240F throughout every run.

Stock Transmission:
B+
By far the best VAG DSG I’ve driven. Transmission performed better than expected in Sport Mode and Manual Mode. Sometimes I could feel small delays in power delivery during apex out throttle application while in Sport Mode. For once I preferred Manual Mode for track driving, the DSG did just about everything you told it to do without electronic intervention. The only intrusive issue I experienced was while exiting turn 8 in 2nd gear, the transmission bounced off the rev-limiter for period of time and would not up-shift until I lifted off the throttle. This was during the last session of the day when I was giving Tyler a ride around the track and the fuel level was almost empty.

Suspension with APR Development Springs:
B+
Without having any comparison to stock spring package it’s hard to say if the car was improved by the addition of APR springs but I can certainly say that the car did not have any glaring unwanted characteristics. We had changing track conditions all day long and the car handled them very well. The car was very neutral from apex out and inspired confidence throughout the track. Even though power output had been increased significantly, corner exit was especially good delivering just the right amount of power for a neutral exit. Corner entry/ Body roll could be better the rear did have the tendency to roll over and cause a slight over steer. I would be very interested in testing stiffer Anti-Roll Bars both independently and Front and Rear Together.

Stock Brakes:
B+
I rarely pressured the brake zones due to poor weather conditions. The only negative experience was a soft/long brake pedal after momentary short stops in pit lane (under 2 mins). The pedal would come back after about a half lap but this is something I would like to address.

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Thank you for following our updates. We'll provide more testing data, such as final power figures, at our upcoming official release!

Go APR!

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First 2.5 TFSI EVO in the 9’s with a [email protected] MPH!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySNrfkVwsHE

APR’s development on the 2.5 TFSI EVO continues with yet another set of records for the platform. On May 1st 2018, Keith Brantley piloted his APR Tuned RS3 into the 9’s, and backed up his record with eight 9-second passes! In doing so he set several records for the platform, including the following:

9.83 Seconds – Quarter Mile ET
144.41 MPH – Quarter Mile Trap Speed
2.44 Seconds – 0-60 MPH via Dragy
4.79 Seconds – 60-120 MPH via Dragy
5.91 Seconds – 60-130 MPH via Dragy

Keith’s 9-second passes were as follows, including conditions, at Montgomery Raceway Park in Montgomery, Alabama:

[email protected] - 2,175 FT Density Altitude (86.7F, 29%, 29.87 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 2,187 FT Density Altitude (86.1F, 31%, 29.87 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 2,197 FT Density Altitude (86.0F, 32%, 29.87 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 1,924 FT Density Altitude (81.4F, 40%, 29.86 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 1,930 FT Density Altitude (80.3F, 47%, 29.87 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 1,571 FT Density Altitude (74.6F, 61%, 29.87 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 1,382 FT Density Altitude (71.3F, 69%, 29.88 In.Hg.)
[email protected] - 1,341 FT Density Altitude (70.8F, 69%, 29.88 In.Hg.)

https://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rs3-slips.png

Keith’s vehicle setup and modifications were as follows:

2018 Audi RS3 2.5 TFSI
APR ECU & TCU Upgrades with E85
TTE625 Drop-in Stock-Housing Turbo
Intake System
Straight-Pipe / Dump Tube Exhaust System
Intercooler System
Fueling System
18x8.5 Wheels
245x40R18 Hoosier Drag Radials
Seats Removed

Overall we’re impressed with the setup. Keith’s RS3 laid down over 600 WHP on our dyno, and was extremely capable at the drag strip. Given the turbo’s moderate size, the system makes for an excellent daily driver, without introducing significant lag, as is often the case with much larger, and more capable turbochargers. We would like to stress this is not a production product we currently sell, and much of the hardware upgrades are prototypes and proofs of concept. Our production hardware will begin rolling out later this year. Please stay tuned for more details while we continue to work on adding Program Switching and Full Encryption to the ECU to protect our world-class and record-setting ECU Upgrades before our official release!

https://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/keith-building-579x386.jpg

Thank you to Keith Brantley for giving us the opportunity to make his RS3 fast. A special shout-out to Jeffrey Sanders and Montgomery Raceway Park for their hospitality and track prep! And thank you to Richard Conniff at Jack Ingram for all our VW, Audi and Porsche purchases!

Go APR!


----- Update:

APR RS3 / TTRS 2.5 TFSI ECU Upgrade - Now Available

APR is pleased to present the ultimate engine control unit (ECU) upgrade for the 2.5T EA855 EVO (Gen 2) engine!

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/TTRSRS3-Release-Graphic-579x298.png (https://goapr.io/25ecu)

Product Page (https://goapr.io/25ecu)

APR’s ECU Upgrades are the best dollar-per-horsepower modification one can make to the 2.5T engine. The upgrades dramatically increase horsepower and torque, making for an exceptionally quicker and more exciting vehicle. This is made possible through APR’s optimization of the factory engine management system to take full advantage of the engine’s capabilities, without needing any end user adjustment. The software loads to the factory ECU through the OBD-II port, resulting in a clean and headache-free install. Optional features, such as APR's EMCS Program Switching and APR Mobile are available. Furthermore, for those looking for tuning with a limited powertrain warranty, APR Plus (https://goapr.io/p) has you covered!

APR ECU Upgrade Stages

APR’s ECU Upgrades are available in multiple stages, supporting various octanes both with or without any hardware modifications. Specific software is available for use with a high flow downpipe exhaust system and drop-in turbocharger upgrades are coming soon. Each stage is fully compatible with an upgraded intake, intercooler, catback exhaust, or other minor bolt on modifications.

Each stage includes optimizations to the factory boost gauge making it react more quickly and corrections to the power and torque gauges to match the increased output. Furthermore, we’ve added left foot braking, removed the speed limiter, raised the rev-limiter and added a motorsport limiter, adjusted the factory exhaust crackle to protect the catalyst, optimized cold start, retuned the exhaust flap actuation for the best performance and sound in multiple modes, optimized high altitude mappings, retuned the throttle for better response, and completely optimized the driving experience for street and track use making for a much more enjoyable driving experience!


APR Plus (https://goapr.io/p) ECU Upgrade with a Limited Powertrain Warranty

The APR Plus ECU Upgrade (https://goapr.io/p) is the first step towards making more power, and it includes our limited powertrain warranty. This simple upgrade requies no engine hardware modifications, and produces 459 HP with 451 FT-LBS of torque. Gains as high as 66 HP and 88 FT-LBS of torque are available throughout the power band, making the vehicle exceptionally quicker in all scenarios. To learn more about APR Plus, please visit the APR Plus website (https://goapr.io/p).

APR Stage 1 ECU Upgrade

The APR Stage 1 ECU Upgrade is the next step towards making more power! This simple upgrade requires no engine hardware modifications, and produces 459-542 HP with 451-506 FT-LBS of torque, depending on octane. Gains as high as 66-132 HP and 88-146 FT-LBS of torque are available throughout the power band. To get more power, the vehicle can be outfitted with an upgraded intake, intercooler, catback exhaust and other small modifications without requiring any new modification to the ECU. Upgrading the small factory intercooler is highly recommended on this platform.

APR Stage 1 is available for 91 AKI, 93 AKI, 100 AKI, 104 AKI and E85 fuel grades in North America, and 95 RON, 98 RON, 102 RON, 104 RON, 108 RON and E85 fuel grades in the Rest of the World.

APR Stage 2 and Stage 3 ECU Upgrade are coming soon.

Dyno Testing

http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/dyno/25tfsi_ea855_evo/25tfsi_ea855_evo_s0_vs_s1_e85_c.png (https://goapr.io/25ecu)

Please visit our Product Page (https://goapr.io/25ecu) for detailed dyno charts showing stock vs APR 91, 93, 100, 104 and E85 Performance Modes measured at the wheels, estimated at the crank, and the absolute gain over stock.


Extreme Testing

APR’s ECU Upgrade has been full tested for the better part of a year prior to a public release. This includes summer and winter weather testing on multiple continents, high and low altitude testing, extensive track testing at multiple road courses, extensive drag strip testing and extensive road and daily driving testing. APR’s test vehicles are full instrumented with multiple sensors, including pre and post intercooler temperature and pressure sensors, pre and post turbine temperature and backpressure sensors, pre and post catalyst temperature and pressure sensors, and multiple pressure sensors throughout the intake system. APR test vehicles have seen over 700 HP in various configurations, on the stock engine internals, and have set multiple world records, including 10.5 second stage 1 quarter mile passes, and 9 second stage 3 passes.

For more details, including included and optional features, Pricing, and more, please visit our Product Page (https://goapr.io/25ecu).

[iliveoncaffiene]

We purchased a new RS3 for development and it showed up yesterday. First up: ECU Upgrade. Stay tuned!

Don't forget about TCU :D

[mattvandyk]

Subscribed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UnaBomber]

SIGN ME UP please please please

[WildHareMS]

New carbon fiber air box too, that thing is horrible. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DannyLo]

Oh yes, IN!! [wrench]

[tonymission]

I'm in for some tunes!

[HurrayFive]

Looking forward to seeing what you guys can do with this engine! By the time my RS gets here hopefully there's already an option or two :)

[DannyLo]

I'm in for some tunes!

+ downpipes, exhausts, and Stage 3 (maybe 600-650hp) goodnesssss [drool] I can dream...

[andru1313]

Subscribed!!! Looking forward to seeing some numbers and hearing about the Butt Dyno.

[h8machine]

When is the TT RS getting there? [:D]

[iliveoncaffiene]

When is the TT RS getting there? [:D]

I'd imagine they only need one of them to do actual ECU tuning and development, they probably only have to check fitment for the TTRS (borrow someone's car, someone else is a beta tester).
Why buy both when they are practically the same for most of the development (APR doesn't develop many cosmetic changes)

[GordonC]

Let me guess - Stage 1 tune = 540 HP.

What do I win? [:D]

[Arin@APR]

TTRS/RS3 are basically the same. Some fitment stuff to check, and some slight differences. :)

[big residual]

My pool entry: Stage 1 hp will be 445 on 91 at the crank. Stage 2 (w/ CAI<>DP) hp will be 465. I'm guessing they don't get the +20/+28% you see on the EA888, but squeeze more than they did out of the prior gen TFSI 2.5.

[FuzzyHat]

Subscribed

[HurrayFive]

My pool entry: Stage 1 hp will be 445 on 91 at the crank. Stage 2 (w/ CAI<>DP) hp will be 465. I'm guessing they don't get the +20/+28% you see on the EA888, but squeeze more than they did out of the prior gen TFSI 2.5.

http://www.gt-innovation.de/wordpress/projects/audi-ttrs-8s-509ps/ <- They did 502HP/500TQ (crank) w/ software only on pump gas ("stage 2" refers to amount of boost over stock in their post), stating that the stock hardware was more than capable at that power level. While I doubt APR will go that crazy, is going to be exciting to see what they can do regardless!

[big residual]

http://www.gt-innovation.de/wordpress/projects/audi-ttrs-8s-509ps/ <- They did 502HP/500TQ (crank) w/ software only on pump gas ("stage 2" refers to amount of boost over stock in their post), stating that the stock hardware was more than capable at that power level. While I doubt APR will go that crazy, is going to be exciting to see what they can do regardless!

To be fair, the GT Innovation folks' EA888 Stage 1 and Stage 2 results don't look much crazier than APRs, so maybe the engine has a significant amount of upside. I was working off the assumption that Audi Sport would have tuned out some of the upside already, so there wouldn't be as much low-hanging fruit.

Will be fun to watch. And +1 for whoever listed TCU previously. I don't know that the new DSG changes the need for better shift points and more clamping pressure.

[HurrayFive]

To be fair, the GT Innovation folks' EA888 Stage 1 and Stage 2 results don't look much crazier than APRs, so maybe the engine has a significant amount of upside. I was working off the assumption that Audi Sport would have tuned out some of the upside already, so there wouldn't be as much low-hanging fruit.

Will be fun to watch. And +1 for whoever listed TCU previously. I don't know that the new DSG changes the need for better shift points and more clamping pressure.

I was under the same assumption until I saw the numbers the GT folks put up, surprised there was still that much on the table with software only!

Ditto on the TCU, it was a necessity in my S3 at stage 2, likewise in stage 2 B8/8.5 S4/5's, assume it will still be the case on the RS.

[hbaudi]

Subscribed

[LY7W]

+ downpipes, exhausts, and Stage 3 (maybe 600-650hp) goodnesssss [drool] I can dream...
Know a guy with a 2015 S3 saloon with 605 bhp, full Milltek , Wagner intercooler,Carbon intake, and remap from Mrc uk

Sent from my D6503 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Arin@APR]

When looking at European figures, keep in mind there will be differences:

- "PUMP FUEL" can mean up to 102 RON in europe! 102 RON is insane. It's way better than our 91 and 93 octane fuels.
- Power is usually in PS. 1 HP = 1.01387 PS. Not a lot, but makes a difference.
- Correction is typically in DIN. DIN is alway higher than SAE. It really inflates big numbers.
- Power is typically at the crank using a run down test. This differs from how we do it in the USA.

[DARTHVDR]

Hello. I'm in NC. I picked up right RS3 last weekend and I love it. After running it awhile... and I shut the engine off, the fans run, which I expect, but then I hear a buzzing sound from the engine. I believe it is the after run pump, but I wanted to see if you all are experiencing this as well. I'm looking forward to seeing the parts and tunes you all come up with. You'll need to turn the sound all the way up!..


https://photos.app.goo.gl/BtUK6BYyICsOrpt62

[pinski]

Where are you in NC? I'd love to check out your RS3! :)

[S4 00 2.7]

Looking forward to seeing what you guys can do with this engine! By the time my RS gets here hopefully there's already an option or two :)


+ downpipes, exhausts, and Stage 3 (maybe 600-650hp) goodnesssss [drool] I can dream...

they did just fine with the last generation ..


http://youtu.be/VNklpt8CVW4

from my HTC 10

[S4 00 2.7]

Know a guy with a 2015 S3 saloon with 605 bhp, full Milltek , Wagner intercooler,Carbon intake, and remap from Mrc uk

Sent from my D6503 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

that's fine but it's still a 4 cylinder.

5 cyl 2.5 turbo > 4 banger all day every day

since you are across the pond you should already know that in Europe the Rs3/ TTrs is making 800+hp

EDIT
and one in Russia is making 1,000 hp

from my HTC 10

[LY7W]

that's fine but it's still a 4 cylinder.

5 cyl 2.5 turbo > 4 banger all day every day

from my HTC 10
Oh definitely would rather have the 5 pot as nothing else sounds like them on boost

Sent from my D6503 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[S4 00 2.7]

enjoy and you are welcome


http://youtu.be/VNklpt8CVW4

from my HTC 10

[davek2787]

Any word on the ecu flash for the b9 s4. Trying to figure what to replace my s3 with.

[Arin@APR]

Any word on the ecu flash for the b9 s4. Trying to figure what to replace my s3 with.

Still working on cracking it. Will be a bit most likely. It's SUPER hard.

[DannyLo]

they did just fine with the last generation ..

Oh I'm very much aware! I've seen almost all the stage 3 APR 5-cylinder videos on youtube by now, and probably a large majority of the Iroz Motorsport 5-cyl car videos as well. [:D]

Super excited to see what comes out of this development!

[Micronaught]

Potentially OBD2 loader ? And I wonder what new tracing tech Audi has come up with to void warrantys .

[DARTHVDR]

Hello. I'm in NC. I picked up right RS3 last weekend and I love it. After running it awhile... and I shut the engine off, the fans run, which I expect, but then I hear a buzzing sound from the engine. I believe it is the after run pump, but I wanted to see if you all are experiencing this as well. I'm looking forward to seeing the parts and tunes you all come up with. You'll need to turn the sound all the way up!..


https://photos.app.goo.gl/BtUK6BYyICsOrpt62

APR... Please wouldn't you check and reply to a potential customer? :)

[Drof]

APR... Please wouldn't you check and reply to a potential customer? :)

for what its worth multiple of my past cars have also done this with no issues. Im not sure what exactly the car is doing or the purpose behind it (but I am assuming its a safety mechanism, or clearing out lines / parts)

GTR did it, M4 did it...I wouldnt' worry about it too much

[Arin@APR]

Cars make noise when you turn them off.

- Pumps
- Solenoids
- Valves
- Purging
- Etc

[Arin@APR]

Scan, Scan, Scan!

https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20687266_177091312834715_4815249476639784960_n.jpg

[HBird]

that's fine but it's still a 4 cylinder.

5 cyl 2.5 turbo > 4 banger all day every day

since you are across the pond you should already know that in Europe the Rs3/ TTrs is making 800+hp

EDIT
and one in Russia is making 1,000 hp

from my HTC 10

Said Russian car also uses a kit from a rival company based in Vegas if I remember correctly.

Arin, any baseline dyno numbers to go off of yet?

[jiannu]

Arin, any baseline dyno numbers to go off of yet?

I read somewhere new rs3 is in or around 347

[brad65ford]

Sub'd! Didn't know there was a thread on it and ended up calling APR today asking details on if there was a tune available yet. Looking forward to what they come up with. Wondering if stage 1 will be enough of a difference or just go straight to stage 2. Looking at the pictures APR posted assuming they will release stage 1 and 2 at the same time or will it be only Stage 1?

[Arin@APR]

Arin, any baseline dyno numbers to go off of yet?

I plan to gather all marketing data when we have stage 1 ready. Hopefully we're not too too far out.

[Gurds7]

Mine arrives in the next month or so. Do you think Stage 1 will arrive by year's end?

[brad65ford]

Mine arrives in the next month or so. Do you think Stage 1 will arrive by year's end?


Hell we can't wait that long lol.

[Gurds7]

Hell we can't wait that long lol.

True, but I don't want to be unrealistic either.

[DannyLo]

Every time I get a tapatalk notification that this thread's been updated my heart skips a beat lol...impatiently waiting [:p]

[GramCracker]

Mine arrives in the next month or so. Do you think Stage 1 will arrive by year's end?

2 weeks.

[brad65ford]

2 weeks.


oh great the "2 weeks" phase lol.

[DannyLo]

2 weeks.

Source?

[John P.]

Source?

Pretty sure that's an old joke re: APR timelines.

[DannyLo]

Pretty sure that's an old joke re: APR timelines.

Ah, damn; got me. This is my first go at anticipating an APR product release so I had no idea lol.

[WAF]

Not the 2 week shyt again, got rather annoying.

[whiped]

Everything APR is #2weeks.

I imagine this is a priority for them though so it should be moving along nicely. [up]

[CrystalBlu1.8T]

Subscribed!

[Arin@APR]

We're not wasting any time, and we're not rushing either. We've literally sensored up the whole car and are designing each hardware and software item with as much critical data as possible. Basically, we're not looking to just make parts bigger for the sake of being bigger. We're looking to make parts better, because that's what you'll want.

[brad65ford]

We're not wasting any time, and we're not rushing either. We've literally sensored up the whole car and are designing each hardware and software item with as much critical data as possible. Basically, we're not looking to just make parts bigger for the sake of being bigger. We're looking to make parts better, because that's what you'll want.

Yup we just wish you guys had it before we have/had them ;-) Looking forward in see what you guys find left on the table with the stock RS3's!

[dillysd]

[QUOTE=Arin@APR;12568772]We purchased a new RS3 for development and it showed up yesterday. First up: ECU Upgrade. Stay tuned!

Like the intentional or maybe unintentional pun. Can wait to see what this thing puts out.


2015 S4 DSG - CTS Intake, APR CPS, 034 Trans/Diff Mounts, RS Grille, RS Fog Grilles, ECS Boost Gauge

[Gurds7]

Arin,

Can you tell us anything about how tunable the motor is? I know that certain VW/Audi products have more capability than others. My MK6 Golf R didn't have a whole lot of room without installing hardware like the HPFP, but my MK7R gains a ton with just Stage 1 93, and my B8.5 S4 was even better than that.

[Arin@APR]

They are VERY tunable. :)

[tonymission]

They are VERY tunable. :)

https://media.tenor.com/images/26263eced3747e6c922a9ae885fe55da/tenor.gif

[brad65ford]

Damn so interested in know what APR has for us. Wondering it there will be more then just stage 1 at release.

[Gurds7]

They are VERY tunable. :)

Awesome! I can't wait!!!

[Baritone]

Subscribed


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[gaspam]

hopefully, with RS3 being DI+port injection, APR will come out with an E85 tune as well like they did for the R8 :)

[QYKSLVR]

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I'm only a couple hours south of you and have been using APR a long time.

[DannyLo]

hopefully, with RS3 being DI+port injection, APR will come out with an E85 tune as well like they did for the R8 :)

Yes please! E85 everywhere on Long Island. Could maybe hurt some GTR egos on the stock turbo [emoji48]


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[ilmrs3]

Can you guys add back the pops and crackles that the pre facelift had? I don't really want a full tune, just the crackles in dymanic mode.

[javbomb]

Can you guys add back the pops and crackles that the pre facelift had? I don't really want a full tune, just the crackles in dymanic mode.

If APR decided to do this, I would really love them to have a couple options for those who dont really want too much of a pop, I like subtle gargles a lot and would welcome some more of them but NOT loud bangs.

[brad65ford]

If APR decided to do this, I would really love them to have a couple options for those who dont really want too much of a pop, I like subtle gargles a lot and would welcome some more of them but NOT loud bangs.

+1 don't want loud bangs with a new tune, like the way it is stock except for it would be wonderful if they can have the throttle not as high when down shifting. The throttle matching is to high and takes to long to engauge when downshifting. Though these dsg's are quick at upshifting they aren't the greatest at downshifting or the way they are mapped. I could easily down shift and slow the car down much faster if it was a manual. Not sure how much APR does regarding whole car power and shift tuning but this is one of the area's I'd love to see address aside from adding more power!

[dansnexusone]

+1 don't want loud bangs with a new tune, like the way it is stock except for it would be wonderful if they can have the throttle not as high when down shifting. The throttle matching is to high and takes to long to engauge when downshifting. Though these dsg's are quick at upshifting they aren't the greatest at downshifting or the way they are mapped. I could easily down shift and slow the car down much faster if it was a manual. Not sure how much APR does regarding whole car power and shift tuning but this is one of the area's I'd love to see address aside from adding more power!

I assume that they'll have a TCU tune available just like they did on the standard s3 and many other platforms. In my experience it changed the whole feeling of the car and made S mode so much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis.

[ilmrs3]

If APR decided to do this, I would really love them to have a couple options for those who dont really want too much of a pop, I like subtle gargles a lot and would welcome some more of them but NOT loud bangs. Stratified tuning does that. On my GTI I could choose between no crackles, crackles and loud crackles. It's a 10$ option on their tune.

[brad65ford]

I assume that they'll have a TCU tune available just like they did on the standard s3 and many other platforms. In my experience it changed the whole feeling of the car and made S mode so much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis.

Praying your right, that would be so awesome!

[r32breeze]

Just got mine yesterday! Anxiously waiting for the ECU tune. Any guestimate about the stage 1 figures?

Will be posting pics soon...

[BaltimoreCaesar]

Someone else has tuned a TT-RS (same engine/trans/AWD system) and picked up 100hp at the wheels on what they are calling their "stage 2" tune. I'd imagine a stage 1 will yield 60-70ish at the wheels, but it's all just speculation right now, and I have no idea about the reliability of that stage 2 100 hp tune.

[brad65ford]

if that is the case stage one should give 11.5'ish quarter mile times maybe better.

[tonymission]

if that is the case stage one should give 11.5'ish quarter mile times maybe better.

With 11.8s at stock? I'm hoping for a 10 second stage 2 car here... even if 10.9. ;)

[brad65ford]

With 11.8s at stock? I'm hoping for a 10 second stage 2 car here... even if 10.9. ;)


what's guessing stage 2, just stage 1.

[Gurds7]

what's guessing stage 2, just stage 1.

Agreed. Stage 2 on these newer turbos usually doesn't add a whole lot more than Stage 1. My guess is 20hp over Stage 1.

[gaspam]

Agreed. Stage 2 on these newer turbos usually doesn't add a whole lot more than Stage 1. My guess is 20hp over Stage 1.

you need to go look at the iroz downpipes thread then :) downpipes are already picking up 60 awhp from downpipe/cat delete ..... factory downpipe/cats are super restrictive it seems on the RS3

[S4 00 2.7]

you need to go look at the iroz downpipes thread then :) downpipes are already picking up 60 awhp from downpipe/cat delete ..... factory downpipe/cats are super restrictive it seems on the RS3
+1 car has lots of potential

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[ATL_]

Any new news on what is being developed or the timeline?

[context.eax]

I see GT Tuning take out 411whp and 411wtq from it.
Anyone know what this is in bhp?
https://youtu.be/5N98jHvWM_0


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[DannyLo]

I see GT Tuning take out 411whp and 411wtq from it.
Anyone know what this is in bhp?
https://youtu.be/5N98jHvWM_0


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Well, if that number is all wheel horsepower based on the fact that it's an all wheel dyno in that video, we can make a guesstimate of 25% loss. But, the RS3 it's not longitudinal, so let's say only 20% loss for good measure for a haldex based system...that would make it:

493hp at the crank @ 20% drivetrain loss

just for fun, if it were the larger loss, it'd be:

513hp at the crank @ 25% drivetrain loss

these are just fun numbers, and do not represent what may actually result from tuning these cars, but i'm still thinking it's going to be really impressive with just a few bolt on parts.

[ATL_]

I see GT Tuning take out 411whp and 411wtq from it.
Anyone know what this is in bhp?
https://youtu.be/5N98jHvWM_0


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No way to really know that without a baseline. On AWD cars, I always just assume there is a 15% drivetrain loss.

[context.eax]

Well, if that number is all wheel horsepower based on the fact that it's an all wheel dyno in that video, we can make a guesstimate of 25% loss. But, the RS3 it's not longitudinal, so let's say only 20% loss for good measure for a haldex based system...that would make it:

493hp at the crank @ 20% drivetrain loss

just for fun, if it were the larger loss, it'd be:

513hp at the crank @ 25% drivetrain loss

these are just fun numbers, and do not represent what may actually result from tuning these cars, but i'm still thinking it's going to be really impressive with just a few bolt on parts.

How do you calculate these numbers?
I get different result when I do the math.
20% loss is 513hk ((411*100)/(100-20))
25% loss is 548hk ((411*100)/(100-25))
15% loss is 483hk ((411*100)/(100-15))

Is this the wrong way to calc drive train loss?


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[forbiddenbeat]

+1 don't want loud bangs with a new tune, like the way it is stock except for it would be wonderful if they can have the throttle not as high when down shifting. The throttle matching is to high and takes to long to engauge when downshifting. Though these dsg's are quick at upshifting they aren't the greatest at downshifting or the way they are mapped. I could easily down shift and slow the car down much faster if it was a manual. Not sure how much APR does regarding whole car power and shift tuning but this is one of the area's I'd love to see address aside from adding more power!

Are you taking your foot off the throttle when downshifting. In the S3 at least, on-throttle downshifts are really slow and terrible (slowly creeps revs to match, kind of mushy-feeling), but if you take your foot off and downshift, it's instant (way faster than any manual shift could be).

[DannyLo]

How do you calculate these numbers?
I get different result when I do the math.
20% loss is 513hk ((411*100)/(100-20))
25% loss is 548hk ((411*100)/(100-25))
15% loss is 483hk ((411*100)/(100-15))

Is this the wrong way to calc drive train loss?


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Yeah, just realizing my math is all wrong now that you mention it. You’re right! Ignore my post hah


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[context.eax]

I see mTm have the tune ready for the 400hp TTRS. I guess it will be the same numbers for the RS3 400hp?
The ECU upgrade takes out 465hp and 600nm. When you look at the torque curve it looks like they are cutting it at 600nm.
mTm TTRS (http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/TTRS-8S/2-5-TFSI-294-kW-400hp-Quattro-Coup?FZID=TTRS8S294Q&KIT=m2ttrs400465qc)

[irablumberg]

I see mTm have the tune ready for the 400hp TTRS. I guess it will be the same numbers for the RS3 400hp?
The ECU upgrade takes out 465hp and 600nm. When you look at the torque curve it looks like they are cutting it at 600nm.
mTm TTRS (http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/TTRS-8S/2-5-TFSI-294-kW-400hp-Quattro-Coup?FZID=TTRS8S294Q&KIT=m2ttrs400465qc)

There are 2 reasons for the torque limitation. First, it is likely that the drive train can't handle much more than 600 nm, so this is a reasonable safety measure.

Second, as is normal for turbo engines, the factory turbo is sized to minimize lag, which means it is too small to feed enough air to sustain more than 600 nm of torque at higher RPM. In order to maintain some measure of linear throttle response, it makes sense to limit torque to a level that can be maintained across a reasonably broad RPM range. Otherwise, the torque curve would look like an upside down parabola which would make power delivery very difficult to control.

In any case, the power increase suggested by MTM would certainly make the RS3 a total killer sleeper.

[S4 00 2.7]

There are 2 reasons for the torque limitation. First, it is likely that the drive train can't handle much more than 600 nm, so this is a reasonable safety measure.

Second, as is normal for turbo engines, the factory turbo is sized to minimize lag, which means it is too small to feed enough air to sustain more than 600 nm of torque at higher RPM. In order to maintain some measure of linear throttle response, it makes sense to limit torque to a level that can be maintained across a reasonably broad RPM range. Otherwise, the torque curve would look like an upside down parabola which would make power delivery very difficult to control.

In any case, the power increase suggested by MTM would certainly make the RS3 a total killer sleeper.
finally someone who understands turbos. I concur.

so many people here that simply do not understand them.

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[context.eax]

Another tuner for the ttrs 400hp
http://www.gt-innovation.de/wordpress/projects/audi-ttrs-8s-509ps/

Over 500hp and 674nm on stage 2.
This stage 2 does not need any hw mods as far as I can understand. It's the boost level that puts it into a stage 2 category.


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[brad65ford]

ETA or at least a tease of some sort APR yet?

[DannyLo]

ETA or at least a tease of some sort APR yet?

x2 fiending over here [wrench]

[CrystalBlu1.8T]

Waiting on this and my downpipes! [headbang]

[brad65ford]

Was hopefully there would be some words from our friends at apr. anybody out there ??

[Arin@APR]

It's going to be a while till we're all finished. There's so much data to capture, but it's been instrumental in development of our software, intake, exhaust, downpipe, and intercooler so far. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[Konrad]

It's going to be a while till we're all finished. There's so much data to capture, but it's been instrumental in development of our software, intake, exhaust, downpipe, and intercooler so far. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

can't wait. Thanks for the update.

[brad65ford]

It's going to be a while till we're all finished. There's so much data to capture, but it's been instrumental in development of our software, intake, exhaust, downpipe, and intercooler so far. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Boy thats a massive tease. Like its going to be awseome but you still gonna have to wait awhile :-(

[r32breeze]

It's going to be a while till we're all finished. There's so much data to capture, but it's been instrumental in development of our software, intake, exhaust, downpipe, and intercooler so far. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Hey Arin, do you think ECU tune will be ready by the end of this year? Thx.

[markn1689]

2 weeks

[defau1t]

I think the 2 weeks joke has been beat to death on page 2 already

[brad65ford]

they don't want to be held to anything which I understand but we are majorly itching to get this accomplished especially for the guys that want to do DP and have no check engine lights. If this same system was out in Europe prior it may have helped speed up time but thinking the new 2.5 rs3/ttrs is running different parts etc... Regardless I too am wondering how many miles or over all time it takes to get enough feed back to feel "safe" to send out offical software upgrades. Unless its not software or longevaity related. In the world of making money if they are state to release parts with it like "intercooler, exhaust and or intake" they may be waiting for this to be manufactured and released at that time. Personally I want the software now and could careless about parts but as we all know its a business for companies and a hobby for us guys.

[Arin@APR]

As far as testing goes, I'm sure most just make whatever fits. That's the easy part and anyone with fabrication skills could whip something up. But, is that the right thing to do? Is that what Audi did when making an RS model? I don't think so. We're really digging deep into this platform to find out what's actually needed. Our tuning tools let us analyze everything within the ECU, well beyond what most can be done via vag-com diagnostic channels, but that's not enough. The factory models a lot of what's happening so they can remove sensors from the vehicle post tuning to cut down on costs. We've added the sensors back. We've installed multiple exhaust gas temperature probes, exhaust gas back pressure probes, pressure sensors in various parts of the charge piping system and intake system, various temperature probes in the intake system and charge piping system, etc. The goal here is to make some good decisions, not just what looks the prettiest, or the largest. We're already found some pretty unobvious rooms for big improvements, which will come in the ways of properly sized pipes, smooth transitions, castings, and more. We're shaping up to have a killer package, and if I ever get an RS3 of my own, all of these parts will be on my own car.

[brad65ford]

As far as testing goes, I'm sure most just make whatever fits. That's the easy part and anyone with fabrication skills could whip something up. But, is that the right thing to do? Is that what Audi did when making an RS model? I don't think so. We're really digging deep into this platform to find out what's actually needed. Our tuning tools let us analyze everything within the ECU, well beyond what most can be done via vag-com diagnostic channels, but that's not enough. The factory models a lot of what's happening so they can remove sensors from the vehicle post tuning to cut down on costs. We've added the sensors back. We've installed multiple exhaust gas temperature probes, exhaust gas back pressure probes, pressure sensors in various parts of the charge piping system and intake system, various temperature probes in the intake system and charge piping system, etc. The goal here is to make some good decisions, not just what looks the prettiest, or the largest. We're already found some pretty unobvious rooms for big improvements, which will come in the ways of properly sized pipes, smooth transitions, castings, and more. We're shaping up to have a killer package, and if I ever get an RS3 of my own, all of these parts will be on my own car.

Great response Arin and well written too, most all believe in your parts and goals are to achieve customer happness for sure. Sounds like you guys are working on the parts, being in the world of manufacturing i too know it takes time to manufacture things especially as a package.

So can you share how this will reflect in time delievery to the customers? Unfortuantely i do not know what has happened in the past with other new models you have started on and how long its taken and if this will be the same story... months and months later waiting etc... I did how ever own a S8 Plus and contacting you for months of owning it requesting a tune which your company suggested they needed more time with, but ended up giving up waiting for it to be completed. Honestly I don't know if its even available at this point anyway. Again i know this comes off as negative but I'm actually excited to hear possitive news that APR's performance parts and tune will happend with in a few weeks not months from now.

As of today its been 2 months since you posted and shared the photos of your RS3. Fingers crossed its soon since that is all we can do at this point.

[Arin@APR]

Hardware usually takes the longest. We'll be casting several parts when they go into production, so there's usually an up front waiting period, and sometimes changes need to be made. That can take months - months of just waiting for parts to be ready. Tuning will be shorter. I haven't been given a release date, you'll see a tune before a hardware release.

[brad65ford]

Sounds great Arin, and we all thank you for this update. Please share information on tuning when available. I have a local dealer of yours I've already lined up.

[XLR8 Craig]

Sounds great Arin, and we all thank you for this update. Please share information on tuning when available. I have a local dealer of yours I've already lined up.

Seriously, we have a wait list of people waiting here too. ;)

[dynastyreal]

Bought a 2018 RS3 here. Can’t wait to know what the gains are. Looking to mod this car like ASAP. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/506d42febde3675051730a03b95ae0f7.heic


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[Baylorguy]

Arin, I am coming from a 2016 Audi S3, which has been very reliable. Any thoughts/early impressions on the reliability of the 5 cylinder, especially when tuned? Assuming it is pretty stout since the prior iteration of it had some ridiculously high power after tuning, upgrading turbo, etc.

Also hope the casting is more successful this time around compared to the MQB Golf R S3 downpipe. That was nuts :)

[Arin@APR]

So far so good. The main issue we saw on the S3 was the turbo, which was made by someone else. Borg makes the turbo on the RS3, and they've had a good track record.

[context.eax]

So far so good. The main issue we saw on the S3 was the turbo, which was made by someone else. Borg makes the turbo on the RS3, and they've had a good track record.

What name does this turbo have?
I talked to Audi here and they told me that the turbo in the fl is about 17% larger / bigger than the turbo in the pfl.
Does this make any sense?
I would guess they was referring to how much more air this fl turbo could push.


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[Arin@APR]

It's a larger borg warner unit. The name escapes me. I'll check.

[PeteJ]

It's a Borg Warner AirWerks, the more important question is the size of the turbine, compressor and the AR of the exhaust housing. That will dictate the horsepower capability and RPM range.

[S4 00 2.7]

As far as testing goes, I'm sure most just make whatever fits. That's the easy part and anyone with fabrication skills could whip something up. But, is that the right thing to do? Is that what Audi did when making an RS model? I don't think so. We're really digging deep into this platform to find out what's actually needed. Our tuning tools let us analyze everything within the ECU, well beyond what most can be done via vag-com diagnostic channels, but that's not enough. The factory models a lot of what's happening so they can remove sensors from the vehicle post tuning to cut down on costs. We've added the sensors back. We've installed multiple exhaust gas temperature probes, exhaust gas back pressure probes, pressure sensors in various parts of the charge piping system and intake system, various temperature probes in the intake system and charge piping system, etc. The goal here is to make some good decisions, not just what looks the prettiest, or the largest. We're already found some pretty unobvious rooms for big improvements, which will come in the ways of properly sized pipes, smooth transitions, castings, and more. We're shaping up to have a killer package, and if I ever get an RS3 of my own, all of these parts will be on my own car.
I've seen pictures of systems in Europe for exhaust and intercoolers. So I guess you're saying your hardware will look nothing like those that already exist?

Sent from Sony mobile

[Arin@APR]

Hey Arin, do you think ECU tune will be ready by the end of this year? Thx.

Absolutely.

[Arin@APR]

Just so you guys get a hint of what may be to come, here're some lines that are well spread apart:

https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/22221441_1402768033177056_1617465523824492544_n.jp g

[Konrad]

whoa...

[DannyLo]

That's insane! Look at that rounded/flattened peak power too! Seems to hold for quite a bit on the tuned version up top.

[Arin@APR]

Not really done yet... just wanted to share some stuff. ;)

[shivaswrath]

Holy area under the curve!!!


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[gaspam]

if that graph has the same scale as the graph for the apr PFL TTRS 2.5 then that would make each horizontial line move up worth about 15whp and looks like stock vs tuned is about 6.5 lines up so about 100whp delta... hope im right :)

on PFL 2.5L it was about 4.5 chart line gain on the 100 oct setting so if same scale, seems like the new FL aluminum block 2.5L get much nicer gains out of tuning than the old iron block version

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_ttrs.html

[Arin@APR]

The scale was random per the dyno iirc.

[OE2]

Great googly moogly

[GramCracker]

if that graph has the same scale as the graph for the apr PFL TTRS 2.5 then that would make each horizontial line move up worth about 15whp and looks like stock vs tuned is about 6.5 lines up so about 100whp delta... hope im right :)

on PFL 2.5L it was about 4.5 chart line gain on the 100 oct setting so if same scale, seems like the new FL aluminum block 2.5L get much nicer gains out of tuning than the old iron block version

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_ttrs.html

Around 80-100 wheel is what I recall Iroz said some tuners in Europe are seeing with only software on the new TTRS/RS3 engine. Hell, Unitroinc's beta tune just broke into the 10s.

[lalalaprise]

I think we have a rocket ship on our hands here lol

[McTTRS]

Arin -

I am in touch with Joel and am ready to drive down from Huntsville to verify your tune on my 2018 TT RS. BTW, I like your choice of colors!!

[brad65ford]

Seems the race is on...

[lalalaprise]

I'm assuming APR tune will make more power ...they seem to always have higher outputs than Unitronic but I preferred the Uni tune for my mk6 GTI ...both were great though. Can't go wrong with either

[PeteJ]

finally someone who understands turbos. I concur.

so many people here that simply do not understand them.

Sent from Sony mobile

Turbos are not rated by torque output they are rated by airflow and XXX amount of lbs/hr (cuft/min) of air at XXXX RPM will give you HP. Look at any turbo manufacturers website and find a compressor map, all of them show how much airflow and HP they will support.

Torque will break parts, specifically transmission clutches axles etc so they cap the torque to ensure the these parts will live a reasonable life. I had a CL65 and that was factory limited to 738 lb-ft (1000nM) if you removed the limiter from the TCU/ECU it would make almost 900 ft-lb....in my case that led to snapping a pinion when I put sticky tires on the car.

[irablumberg]

Turbos are not rated by torque output they are rated by airflow and XXX amount of lbs/hr (cuft/min) of air at XXXX RPM will give you HP. Look at any turbo manufacturers website and find a compressor map, all of them show how much airflow and HP they will support.

Torque will break parts, specifically transmission clutches axles etc so they cap the torque to ensure the these parts will live a reasonable life. I had a CL65 and that was factory limited to 738 lb-ft (1000nM) if you removed the limiter from the TCU/ECU it would make almost 900 ft-lb....in my case that led to snapping a pinion when I put sticky tires on the car.

In addition to preserving the life of transmission parts, manufacturers limit torque in turbo cars to provide a somewhat linear power delivery. Without that torque management, the torque curve on most factory turbo engines would be an upside down U. That is at low RPM the torque would be somewhat low, then in the mid-range, the torque would be extremely high. At high RPM, most factory turbos would run out of air flow and torque would again fall off. While this type of result would maximize power output, it would not be much fun to drive.

In any case, it does appear from the two tunes we have seen so far, the turbo on the new RS3 / TTRS has substantial headroom in terms of airflow. That is very nice, but it also helps to explain why there is a bit of lag below 2,700 RPMs.

[gaspam]

Arin - there were mentions that this new Aluminum motor is not as strong as the previous Steel version.
Does that bottleneck the tuning potential at all?

plenty of LS1's over 1000+whp and GTR's with over 2500+hp on aluminum blocks, so I think the RS3 will be fine :)

[brad65ford]

didn't know much about the difference between them except for hearing the new motor has a hollow crank shaft.

[gaspam]

As I recall the 8P RS3 hit 600hp on APR stage 3, so just trying to understand where the new motor will stand...

also iroz hit 1000hp on the PFL 2.5L so i dont think the block will matter in the tuning.... it just makes it lighter, so bonus :)

[S4 00 2.7]

Turbos are not rated by torque output they are rated by airflow and XXX amount of lbs/hr (cuft/min) of air at XXXX RPM will give you HP. Look at any turbo manufacturers website and find a compressor map, all of them show how much airflow and HP they will support.

Torque will break parts, specifically transmission clutches axles etc so they cap the torque to ensure the these parts will live a reasonable life. I had a CL65 and that was factory limited to 738 lb-ft (1000nM) if you removed the limiter from the TCU/ECU it would make almost 900 ft-lb....in my case that led to snapping a pinion when I put sticky tires on the car.

good post.

+1 every turbo has its compressor map




In any case, it does appear from the two tunes we have seen so far, the turbo on the new RS3 / TTRS has substantial headroom in terms of airflow. That is very nice, but it also helps to explain why there is a bit of lag below 2,700 RPMs.

yes! that means they went with a good size turbo with lots of potential

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[S4 00 2.7]

plenty of LS1's over 1000+whp and GTR's with over 2500+hp on aluminum blocks, so I think the RS3 will be fine :)
exactly this [emoji106]

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[PeteJ]

plenty of LS1's over 1000+whp and GTR's with over 2500+hp on aluminum blocks, so I think the RS3 will be fine :)

Blocks are either IRON or aluminum, not steel...

For a 1000hp+ LS block to live a reasonably long life most people go with the iron truck blocks or the iron LSX block. Even with the iron truck block 1000hp is pushing it without a good crankshaft upgrade. Regarding the GTR's about 1000-1200hp is the limit of the factory block/crank. They both suffer the same fate as many OEM block/crank combinations and felx is what kills them. Historically in the GTR world 900-1000hp was considered to be the safe limit until they (AMS) realized that crank flex was contributing to the problem. With a good strong billet crank the factory GTR block has been known to live up to about 1200hp, anything more and people go with the billet aftermarket aluminum block and billet crank.

All that said I do question where the upper limits of the new block AND crank are from a long term durability standpoint. With many aluminum blocks you often get to the point of diminishing returns before immediate failure due to lack of rigidity and cylinder wall stability. By that, I mean, you start to get into cylinder wall flex and excessive blow by and/or head gasket failures as an early warning sign. The only way to really know the limit is to push it until it breaks...

Arin, or anybody else, have you seen any images of the internals of the new block/crank that can be shared?. I keep seeing references to the "hollow crankshaft" and I'm assuming that they gun drilled the mains and drilled the rod journals similar to the image below and it is not really "Hollow". The good news is that being a 5 cylinder there is a main web on each side of a rod journal, not like a V8/V6 where two rods sit between each set of main journals.

http://www.callies.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SBC-Magnum-XL1-1024x415.jpg

[gaspam]

Blocks are either IRON or aluminum, not steel...

For a 1000hp+ LS block to live a reasonably long life most people go with the iron truck blocks or the iron LSX block. Even with the iron truck block 1000hp is pushing it without a good crankshaft upgrade. Regarding the GTR's about 1000-1200hp is the limit of the factory block/crank. They both suffer the same fate as many OEM block/crank combinations and felx is what kills them. Historically in the GTR world 900-1000hp was considered to be the safe limit until they (AMS) realized that crank flex was contributing to the problem. With a good strong billet crank the factory GTR block has been known to live up to about 1200hp, anything more and people go with the billet aftermarket aluminum block and billet crank.

All that said I do question where the upper limits of the new block AND crank are from a long term durability standpoint. With many aluminum blocks you often get to the point of diminishing returns before immediate failure due to lack of rigidity and cylinder wall stability. By that, I mean, you start to get into cylinder wall flex and excessive blow by and/or head gasket failures as an early warning sign. The only way to really know the limit is to push it until it breaks...

Arin, or anybody else, have you seen any images of the internals of the new block/crank that can be shared?. I keep seeing references to the "hollow crankshaft" and I'm assuming that they gun drilled the mains and drilled the rod journals similar to the image below and it is not really "Hollow". The good news is that being a 5 cylinder there is a main web on each side of a rod journal, not like a V8/V6 where two rods sit between each set of main journals.

http://www.callies.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SBC-Magnum-XL1-1024x415.jpg

i never said blocks are steel...

and all blocks fail at some point... iron and aluminum.... question is at what point.... answer, most likely well beyond what any tuners are going to reach on this engine/trans....

i had 819whp on my old LS1 never had problem with the aluminum block.... rods and pistons went out but not the block.... people should worry about rods and pistons and trans at this point, well before the block on this engine was kinda my point

[PeteJ]

i never said blocks are steel...

and all blocks fail at some point... iron and aluminum.... question is at what point.... answer, most likely well beyond what any tuners are going to reach on this engine/trans....

i had 819whp on my old LS1 never had problem with the aluminum block.... rods and pistons went out but not the block.... people should worry about rods and pistons and trans at this point, well before the block on this engine was kinda my point

No offence intended, the "steel" comment wasn't directed to you...it was in what you quoted and a simple point of clarification. As an engineer and car builder I feel compelled to correct things like that (just like the use of the term "Motor", if I wanted a Motor as the primary source of propulsion in my car I'd drive a Tesla).

Regardless, I agree, everything has a limit but 819hp at the wheels is a long way from the 1000+ that you called out. I too have seen "stock" LS blocks go that high for a short period, some people have lucked out for years and others like yourself have found other weak links. Over time, as this engine platform evolves we will see what they are really capable of. We've seen it first hand with the E888, there have been more than a few Golf R's that have had issues when pushed too far.

I'm excited to see where the new 2.5L goes and kudos to those willing to blaze a trail for me :) I owe you all a beer!!

[gaspam]

No offence intended, the "steel" comment wasn't directed to you...it was in what you quoted and a simple point of clarification. As an engineer and car builder I feel compelled to correct things like that (just like the use of the term "Motor", if I wanted a Motor as the primary source of propulsion in my car I'd drive a Tesla).

Regardless, I agree, everything has a limit but 819hp at the wheels is a long way from the 1000+ that you called out. I too have seen "stock" LS blocks go that high for a short period, some people have lucked out for years and others like yourself have found other weak links. Over time, as this engine platform evolves we will see what they are really capable of. We've seen it first hand with the E888, there have been more than a few Golf R's that have had issues when pushed too far.

I'm excited to see where the new 2.5L goes and kudos to those willing to blaze a trail for me :) I owe you all a beer!!

no offense taken :)

and i should of clarified on the 1000 hp LS's i was talking about with forged internals.... mine was stock SBE and then i bent a few rods at 23psi shooting for that magical 900whp number on stock internals.... it didnt happen, but the block was ok :)

[S4 00 2.7]

no offense taken :)

and i should of clarified on the 1000 hp LS's i was talking about with forged internals.... mine was stock SBE and then i bent a few rods at 23psi shooting for that magical 900whp number on stock internals.... it didnt happen, but the block was ok :)

woah.. did you at least lower the compression shooting for those numbers on a stock BE? I remember guys being afraid to go higher than 9 psi

Sent from Sony mobile

[Hyphy]

Holy derailment, batman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gaspam]

woah.. did you at least lower the compression shooting for those numbers on a stock BE? I remember guys being afraid to go higher than 9 psi

Sent from Sony mobile

pm me if you want to know more as i dont want to muddy up apr's thread...... and really looking forward to what they come up with on this platform.... I have a feeling that the new 2.5L is going reach epic tuning status of the old b5 S4, meaning its going to be the "go to" Audi when you want to have endless tuning options

[PeteJ]

Holy derailment, batman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10 points for getting us back on track here :)

[Wkraus]

Anyone hear an update? 2 weeks?

[Arin@APR]

We're putting miles on a few test vehicles. Also, we're working on a field worthy code extraction method. Some may be forcing incorrect ECU box codes on the vehicles, which we don't like to do. So we're making it so we can pull your factory code off the ECU so should you ever need to go back to stock, you can. That's difficult, but our electrical engineers are up to the task!

[HBird]

Very interesting. So if I'm not mistaken in interpreting this, this would mean that you could truly flash your car to stock before a dealer visit without fear of TD1?

[sean_entrust]

Very interesting. So if I'm not mistaken in interpreting this, this would mean that you could truly flash your car to stock before a dealer visit without fear of TD1?

only if APR can figure out how to reset the flash counter to 0 which so far no one has accomplished.

[McTTRS]

Arin -

Can you further define or explain "a field worth code extraction method"? Also how is "So we're making it so we can pull your factory code off the ECU so should you ever need to go back to stock, you can" different if at all than in the past? I have had several Audi's with APR tunes and have been able to return them to stock in that past.

[HBird]

only if APR can figure out how to reset the flash counter to 0 which so far no one has accomplished.

That has been done in the past, I think Eurodyne did it? (don't hold me to it) However, this process sets the entire flash counter to 0. So say you went in for a service/warranty claim/etc. and your had say 10 flashes on it (whether from the dealer plugging it in for misc. purposes or whatever). Then when you come back for something (maybe trying to get a turbo replaced under warranty due to a tune or something like that), and they plug it in and your counter says 0 (because the counter was reset) instead of 10 like before, it'll throw a flag up.

I think APR is developing a method of grabbing the cars ECU coding right before it's flashed, and should the time arise for a service/warranty/etc you can get it flashed back to the pre-tune state. Which effectively eliminates any trace of a tune being on the car (and potentially no denied warranty claim).


Arin -

Can you further define or explain "a field worth code extraction method"? Also how is "So we're making it so we can pull your factory code off the ECU so should you ever need to go back to stock, you can" different if at all than in the past? I have had several Audi's with APR tunes and have been able to return them to stock in that past.

In the past your car is running a "stock" tune, but if the dealer wanted they could see that your car was tuned.

Again, this is just my theory and I'm sure Arin will chime in closer to the product's release.

[McTTRS]

Very interesting. So if I'm not mistaken in interpreting this, this would mean that you could truly flash your car to stock before a dealer visit without fear of TD1?

I just traded a 2016 TTS on the new TTRS which had an APR tune on the ECU and TCU that I had removed (i.e. returned to stock) before a service in which it was scanned and the head mechanic who did the service told me that his scan did not result in a flag. I question how what Arin is saying is different from the past - see my reply to him.

[Arin@APR]

Flash counter: We can change it.

Code extract: Across the world there are many different revisions of the factory code. Typically when one of those factory codes gets updated, tuners will grab the factory file and use that to do all of their tuning. They'll then flash this tuned version onto various ECUs, even if the code was never intended for the ECU. We do it differently. Our team of electrical engineers finds a way to remove the factory code from the ECU so we can apply our tuning to each individual file. That way when you get flashed with APR software, you're getting a tuned version of the software that was originally on your ECU. When Audi issues an update, you also get a tuned version of that updated code. If you ever want to go back to stock, we know what your ECU had before tuning, and flash back the exact same file. The process of getting these files was easy at one time, but years back it became very difficult, and even more difficult on the latest batch of ECUS. We're working on a non destructive process to get all those codes for the latest version of MED17 found on the facelifted TTRS/RS3 ECUs.

[McTTRS]

Hunter -

Is reseting to 0 the correct solution? My new TT RS came from the factory with a flash count of 2 according to VAG-COM - see below:

Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 8S0 907 404 G
Component and/or Version: 2.5l R5/4V TF H21 0002
Software Coding: 1A250032242600053620
Work Shop Code: WSC 06385
VCID: 3A55FB98BDCCC79684-806E

Advanced Identification/FAZIT
Identification: RB8-658
Revision: 53H21000
Date: 02.12.16
Manufacturer number: 1618
Test stand number: 0074
Flash Status
Programming Attempts(application): 2/2/2
Flash Date: 17.05.10
Misc.
Hardware number: 07K 907 309 E
Workshop System Name: -----
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM25TFS0118S0907404G
ASAM Dataset Revision: 001002
Car Info
Chassis Number: Removed for posting
Engine code: DAZA
VCDS Info:
VCID: 3A55FB98BDCCC79684-806E
Labels: None
Readiness: No script available
ROD: EV_ECM25TFS0118S0907404B.rod

[Arin@APR]

We don’t. We copy what it was before flashing, and make sure it’s that same value after flashing.

[HBird]

@McTTRS I'd imagine not. Say you got a tune and you took it in for it's 10K service. You flash back to stock and reset the flash count to 0 so it looks like your car is completely stock with no ECU tampering. Since you scanned your car you know it has 2 flash attempts so ideally you'd want it to say 2 when you flashed back to stock (instead of 0). I'm sure a your average tech probably won't even care for a regular service. I just think that for major warranty items they'd look at that as an indicator that car's ECU was tampered with, and then go from there. In the end, we all know it depends on you and your relationship with the dealer.

Either way it's exciting stuff, I always believe in the mantra "competition breeds innovation".

[WAF]

We don’t. We copy what it was before flashing, and make sure it’s that same value after flashing.

Arin i have a question on this new resetting procedure on the flash counter status. Hopefully there will be a flash at home via USB cable support. Which would be the big issue on accessibility on having to make an apt with a said shop, then having your apt with Audi. Personally i wont bother acquiring a flash that requires constant visits to indy shops, ill wait for something more user friendly or wait till warranty is done. Àny flash at home support for this??

[shivaswrath]

We don’t. We copy what it was before flashing, and make sure it’s that same value after flashing.

I hope it's dynamic!
For example, my car is new and has maybe 2 flashes.

I buy APR flash in October with the 2.

Take into dealer and flash back to 2 before, only to find out they flashed it again and it's now 3 in November.

So when I reflash in November after dealer will it flash back to now 3 or original 2?

[McTTRS]

@HBird -

" In the end, we all know it depends on you and your relationship with the dealer." Right on, right on, right on. I had a 2010 TTS that was APR tuned and got a burned valve @ 52K 4,000 miles beyond the warranty but Audi replaced the entire head at the urging of the dealer from which I had bought several cars. I for one am not convinced that a flagged status of your car in the Audi cloud does that much to compromise your warranty. It does allow Audi to not do warranty work because of the flag but as a practical matter I think you would need to do some really stupid stuff for Audi to decline to do warranty work for a long time customer even with a flag.

[HBird]

@HBird -

" In the end, we all know it depends on you and your relationship with the dealer." Right on, right on, right on. I had a 2010 TTS that was APR tuned and got a burned valve @ 52K 4,000 miles beyond the warranty but Audi replaced the entire head at the urging of the dealer from which I had bought several cars. I for one am not convinced that a flagged status of your car in the Audi cloud does that much to compromise your warranty. It does allow Audi to not do warranty work because of the flag but as a practical matter I think you would need to do some really stupid stuff for Audi to decline to do warranty work for a long time customer even with a flag.

I agree 100%. As long as you're upfront and honest, I'm sure they can help you out. A guy here in Houston was APR Stg2 on his Mk7 R and got two Haldex's replaced under warranty because he's upfront and a repeat customer.

[Arin@APR]

The 2.5 TFSI found in the brand new TTRS and facelifted RS3 sedan is a totally new 5-cylinder engine from Audi including an all new version of Bosch’s MED17.1.62 engine management system. The engine differs from other 5 cylinders in the past, using a brand new turbo, with a new control strategy, new dual injection system and new engine block material among other changes. We’re in uncharted territories tuning this new amazing platform!

With any new project that vastly differs from others in the past, our engineers take a cautious and thorough approach to tuning the engine. This starts with data collection. Our APR ECU Explorer logging tool give us direct access to the entire ECU. That means we can read every sensor within the engine bay, and every single calculation taking place within the ECU, at extremely high data rates. This data resolution is second to none, leaving our tuners with the ability to see everything as it happens, with the ability to trace back to why it happened within the ECU. This allows our engineers to understand the ECU algorithms and strategies better than the competition. This is contrary to others relying on OBDII diagnostic channels, which gives poor and limited data used for general diagnostics, not tuning.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ecux.jpg

However, even with this powerful tool, it’s not enough. When Audi tuned this engine, they did so with many more sensors installed, which they later removed and modeled into the ECU. By doing so, they saved money and can deliver a system that is modeled very accurately given the original operating parameters. With sensors removed, the engine management system predicts/models mass flow, pressures, temperatures and other measurements at various places within the engine system by basing those outputs on their relationships with other measured values. However, once you begin tuning the ECU, or changing hardware, these models are no longer very accurate! We need to add those sensors back during the tuning process to correct the incorrect/broken models, and provide a top tier ECU calibration.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/turbo-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/downpipe-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/exhaustpressure-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/probes-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intake-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/dash-579x434.jpg

Our R&D team has installed a MoteC C125 Dash with various high resolution, and high data rate sensors all around the engine to collect critical data for our engineering team. This includes, but is not limited to Race-grade thermocouples and pressure sensors before and after the intercooler and at various places in the intake system to locate restrictions. We’ve also added exhaust manifold pressure sensors and exhaust gas thermocouples to the turbocharger to ensure our calibrations are well within critical engine limitations (shaft speed, EMAP, EGT, surge region operation, lambda sensor pressure and temperature compensation). With MoteC’s i2Pro software, we’re able to analyze and deliver critical data to our calibration and hardware teams create better calibrations and create new hardware products.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/motecrs3-579x348.jpg

With the guess work eliminated, we’re able to deliver a better product.

Software
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/graph.jpg

Hardware
https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20687266_177091312834715_4815249476639784960_n.jpg
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intercooler.jpg

... More to come ...

Stay tuned!

[shivaswrath]

That's a sexy intercooler

[S4 00 2.7]

thanks for sharing, Arin.

Sent from Sony mobile

[McTTRS]

@Arin -

To underscore the differences in and complexity of this engine, I went to the dealership the other day and asked the mechanic where the mass sir flow sensor was on the new 2.5 only to find that it does not have one. This engine uses a speed density model as opposed to a mass flow model of less sophisticated engines - see here for one explanation of the difference (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/electronic-fuel-injection-2/). The short and long of it is that speed density requires more sensors and higher speed computation resources. Less expensive tuning solutions like Chipwerk that simply plug between the ECU and the mass air flow sensor will likely find tuning a speed density based engine difficult at best and with questionable results.

[r32breeze]

The 2.5 TFSI found in the brand new TTRS and facelifted RS3 sedan is a totally new 5-cylinder engine from Audi including an all new version of Bosch’s MED17.1.62 engine management system. The engine differs from other 5 cylinders in the past, using a brand new turbo, with a new control strategy, new dual injection system and new engine block material among other changes. We’re in uncharted territories tuning this new amazing platform!

With any new project that vastly differs from others in the past, our engineers take a cautious and thorough approach to tuning the engine. This starts with data collection. Our APR ECU Explorer logging tool give us direct access to the entire ECU. That means we can read every sensor within the engine bay, and every single calculation taking place within the ECU, at extremely high data rates. This data resolution is second to none, leaving our tuners with the ability to see everything as it happens, with the ability to trace back to why it happened within the ECU. This allows our engineers to understand the ECU algorithms and strategies better than the competition. This is contrary to others relying on OBDII diagnostic channels, which gives poor and limited data used for general diagnostics, not tuning.

... More to come ...

Stay tuned!

Enough with the tease! Just tell us the hp/tq numbers [evilsmile][headbang]

Btw what is the torque limit of the transmission in the RS3? I am sure you guys knew it already [:)]

[McTTRS]

@r32breeze

The DQ500 7 speed in the TT RS and RS3 is rated at 600 NM of about 443 ft-lbs. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox .

[Arin@APR]

Keep in mind that’s just a factory number, meaning the MFG doesn’t use the transmission on a car with more torque.

[McTTRS]

@Arin

Sounds like you are 'prepping' us for something greater that 443 ft-lbs [:D]

[S4 00 2.7]

Keep in mind that’s just a factory number, meaning the MFG doesn’t use the transmission on a car with more torque.
so would you recommend upgrading clutch packs at some point?

and what point would that be?

Sent from Sony mobile

[Arin@APR]

Usually they only need to be replaced if they were slipping and fried. With software, we'll be able to hold more torque.

[LINDW4LL]

However, even with this powerful tool, it’s not enough. When Audi tuned this engine, they did so with many more sensors installed, which they later removed and modeled into the ECU. By doing so, they saved money and can deliver a system that is modeled very accurately given the original operating parameters. With sensors removed, the engine management system predicts/models mass flow, pressures, temperatures and other measurements at various places within the engine system by basing those outputs on their relationships with other measured values. However, once you begin tuning the ECU, or changing hardware, these models are no longer very accurate! We need to add those sensors back during the tuning process to correct the incorrect/broken models, and provide a top tier ECU calibration.

Our R&D team has installed a MoteC C125 Dash with various high resolution, and high data rate sensors all around the engine to collect critical data for our engineering team. This includes, but is not limited to Race-grade thermocouples and pressure sensors before and after the intercooler and at various places in the intake system to locate restrictions. We’ve also added exhaust manifold pressure sensors and exhaust gas thermocouples to the turbocharger to ensure our calibrations are well within critical engine limitations (shaft speed, EMAP, EGT, surge region operation, lambda sensor pressure and temperature compensation). With MoteC’s i2Pro software, we’re able to analyze and deliver critical data to our calibration and hardware teams create better calibrations and create new hardware products.

With the guess work eliminated, we’re able to deliver a better product.
And this is why I have so much respect for APR. [up]

[gaspam]

so would you recommend upgrading clutch packs at some point?

and what point would that be?

Sent from Sony mobile

generally speaking, the DQ500 is fine at 500 trq on stock clutch w/just software and 750 trq w/upgraded clutch

so stock trans with TCU flash should be good for stage1/2... turbo upgrades, once they come out, will probably want upgraded clutchs

[speeddemon69]

The 2.5 TFSI found in the brand new TTRS and facelifted RS3 sedan is a totally new 5-cylinder engine from Audi including an all new version of Bosch’s MED17.1.62 engine management system. The engine differs from other 5 cylinders in the past, using a brand new turbo, with a new control strategy, new dual injection system and new engine block material among other changes. We’re in uncharted territories tuning this new amazing platform!

With any new project that vastly differs from others in the past, our engineers take a cautious and thorough approach to tuning the engine. This starts with data collection. Our APR ECU Explorer logging tool give us direct access to the entire ECU. That means we can read every sensor within the engine bay, and every single calculation taking place within the ECU, at extremely high data rates. This data resolution is second to none, leaving our tuners with the ability to see everything as it happens, with the ability to trace back to why it happened within the ECU. This allows our engineers to understand the ECU algorithms and strategies better than the competition. This is contrary to others relying on OBDII diagnostic channels, which gives poor and limited data used for general diagnostics, not tuning.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ecux.jpg

However, even with this powerful tool, it’s not enough. When Audi tuned this engine, they did so with many more sensors installed, which they later removed and modeled into the ECU. By doing so, they saved money and can deliver a system that is modeled very accurately given the original operating parameters. With sensors removed, the engine management system predicts/models mass flow, pressures, temperatures and other measurements at various places within the engine system by basing those outputs on their relationships with other measured values. However, once you begin tuning the ECU, or changing hardware, these models are no longer very accurate! We need to add those sensors back during the tuning process to correct the incorrect/broken models, and provide a top tier ECU calibration.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/turbo-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/downpipe-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/exhaustpressure-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/probes-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/precooler-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intake-579x434.jpghttp://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/dash-579x434.jpg

Our R&D team has installed a MoteC C125 Dash with various high resolution, and high data rate sensors all around the engine to collect critical data for our engineering team. This includes, but is not limited to Race-grade thermocouples and pressure sensors before and after the intercooler and at various places in the intake system to locate restrictions. We’ve also added exhaust manifold pressure sensors and exhaust gas thermocouples to the turbocharger to ensure our calibrations are well within critical engine limitations (shaft speed, EMAP, EGT, surge region operation, lambda sensor pressure and temperature compensation). With MoteC’s i2Pro software, we’re able to analyze and deliver critical data to our calibration and hardware teams create better calibrations and create new hardware products.

http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/motecrs3-579x348.jpg

With the guess work eliminated, we’re able to deliver a better product.

Software
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/graph.jpg

Hardware
https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/20687266_177091312834715_4815249476639784960_n.jpg
http://www.goapr.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/intercooler.jpg

... More to come ...

Stay tuned!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171017/96a58dec3b7ca94a02cc92fba4054dd3.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OE2]

Not live yet [headbang]

Sorry for fire drill

[speeddemon69]

Live
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_mqb.html

That's not for the new FL RS3. [emoji30]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Diversion]

Live
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_mqb.html

Previous gen 2.5, we're gonna see more power on ours :P

[context.eax]

Will your intercooler also fit cars with ACC?

[Arin@APR]

Will your intercooler also fit cars with ACC?

Yes sir!

[Wkraus]

We're putting miles on a few test vehicles. Also, we're working on a field worthy code extraction method. Some may be forcing incorrect ECU box codes on the vehicles, which we don't like to do. So we're making it so we can pull your factory code off the ECU so should you ever need to go back to stock, you can. That's difficult, but our electrical engineers are up to the task!

Ok you may win back a customer!!

[DetailersDomain]

subscribed

[s316]

release all stages one time so no need to wait for stg 2+

[Remi28]

Very interesting. So if I'm not mistaken in interpreting this, this would mean that you could truly flash your car to stock before a dealer visit without fear of TD1?

If APR can confirm this 100% with their tune, this would be a huge selling point! I know they would have my business along with a lot of others i suspect!

[context.eax]

I was told by audi that the TCU is logging torque all the time and hiding these values around so that Audi can read them out. If the torque log shows say above 650nm you are flagged.
Don't know if this is true and I was told this to scare me off.


Also by looking at the APR hp dyno graph I count 12 lines to the stock hp peek and over 17 to the tuned one. That is like ~42% increase (17/12)
If the stock is 350whp than this should give 350*1.42 = 497whp tuned. If the drive train loss is say 15% this gives ~585bhp. (497*100)/(100-15)
Can this be possible?

[Jadar]

I was told by audi that the TCU is logging torque all the time and hiding these values around so that Audi can read them out. If the torque log shows say above 650nm you are flagged.
Don't know if this is true and I was told this to scare me off.


Also by looking at the APR hp dyno graph I count 12 lines to the stock hp peek and over 17 to the tuned one. That is like ~42% increase (17/12)
If the stock is 350whp than this should give 350*1.42 = 497whp tuned. If the drive train loss is say 15% this gives ~585bhp. (497*100)/(100-15)
Can this be possible?

But how can they possibly use that to monitor and void warranty? What happens if you put in 110 octane and the ecu naturally adjusts and compensates and makes more torque. Surely they cannot void your warranty because you put in 110 octane. That would be horrible, its not exactly a mod. I suppose if the value is around 650NM the added fuel will never add that much torque so its fine but damn that sucks if there really are shadow codes [o_o].

[context.eax]

But how can they possibly use that to monitor and void warranty? What happens if you put in 110 octane and the ecu naturally adjusts and compensates and makes more torque. Surely they cannot void your warranty because you put in 110 octane. That would be horrible, its not exactly a mod. I suppose if the value is around 650NM the added fuel will never add that much torque so its fine but damn that sucks if there really are shadow codes [o_o].

If the logging info from audi is true then the stock ecu will probably start reducing power if torque is to high say from 110 octan to avoid harming the clutch etc. But as I said this logging could just be BS.

[sleeperwagon]

Arin, not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Is there ANYWAY to reverse the DSG shift pattern? I.E. BMW and Porsche's all downshift pushing forward and upshift pushing back. That is the CORRECT way. Heavy brake down a straight away....push forward since all weight is moving to the front. Again give it gas exiting the apex and pull back to shift up.

Does this bother anyone else or just me? I took my wifes SMG M3 out last night and that shifts correct. Met my friend for coffee this morning and his 911 is the same way. Whats up with AUDI?

[Arin@APR]

I'm not sure that's possible without physically reversing the shifter's sensors.

[Diversion]

Arin, not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Is there ANYWAY to reverse the DSG shift pattern? I.E. BMW and Porsche's all downshift pushing forward and upshift pushing back. That is the CORRECT way. Heavy brake down a straight away....push forward since all weight is moving to the front. Again give it gas exiting the apex and pull back to shift up.

Does this bother anyone else or just me? I took my wifes SMG M3 out last night and that shifts correct. Met my friend for coffee this morning and his 911 is the same way. Whats up with AUDI?

Bothers me a lot.. I've always been used to pulling back for upshifts and I keep ending up smacking redline or getting very close instead.

[DQBRS3]

Arin, not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Is there ANYWAY to reverse the DSG shift pattern? I.E. BMW and Porsche's all downshift pushing forward and upshift pushing back. That is the CORRECT way. Heavy brake down a straight away....push forward since all weight is moving to the front. Again give it gas exiting the apex and pull back to shift up.

Does this bother anyone else or just me? I took my wifes SMG M3 out last night and that shifts correct. Met my friend for coffee this morning and his 911 is the same way. Whats up with AUDI?

Yeah this is a major design oversight, would love to see a fix for this.

[Gurds7]

Is there any chance of flashing at home? It would require me to drive 2 hours round trip every time I wanted it reflashed, then another 2 hour round trip to my dealer, then another 2 hours round trip to get it flashed back to APR. 6 hours of driving plus time in the waiting room for every service is not feasible.

[s316]

Is there any chance of flashing at home? It would require me to drive 2 hours round trip every time I wanted it reflashed, then another 2 hour round trip to my dealer, then another 2 hours round trip to get it flashed back to APR. 6 hours of driving plus time in the waiting room for every service is not feasible.

+1

[speeddemon69]

+1

-2


lol


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[lalalaprise]

Yeah this is a major design oversight, would love to see a fix for this.

Not sure you can call it a design oversight when VAG cars have done it this way since 2006. Not saying it's right but it's obviously the way they think is correct.

[speeddemon69]

Yeah this is a major design oversight, would love to see a fix for this.

Just you lol.


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[LINDW4LL]

Not sure you can call it a design oversight when VAG cars have done it this way since 2006. Not saying it's right but it's obviously the way they think is correct.
Yeah... I prefer it the other way and wish they'd switch, but to "normal" drivers, I imagine that pushing UP to upshift and pulling DOWN to downshift is perfectly intuitive. The issue really only arises when you're used to doing it the reverse way or are switching between cars that use different layouts.

In either case, the best solution is to simply use the paddles :)

[PeteJ]

If the logging info from audi is true then the stock ecu will probably start reducing power if torque is to high say from 110 octan to avoid harming the clutch etc. But as I said this logging could just be BS.

The ECU will work inside a set of known parameters and tables. 93 octane will vary from state to state and even altitude has an effect on octane requirements. Adding in high octane fuel will allow the engine to run at it's maximum potential as programmed into the ECU. That said, the ECU's will use a variety of knock and or other sensors to determine how far they can push timing and boost. In simple terms octane is "resistance to ignition" and using fuel with a higher octane rating than needed can actually hurt performance if the ECU does not know how to take advantage of it.

Prior to owning my Audi I had a CL65 (Twin Turbo V12 AMG car). In this engine you had to use the Mercedes spec plugs because the Coil packs measured their resistance and used them as a pseudo EGT probe and then, in combination with a variety of other sensors, they would determine individual fuel and timing requirements and the maximum amount of boost the engine could tolerate. It was one reason that in "overboost mode" it allowed for a spike up to almost 30 pounds of boost and push almost 900lb-ft of torque on 93 octane. Quite advanced technology for 2005.

I do find it interesting that they have gone back to a Speed Density system, to meet fuel economy/emission standards AND get this level of performance would have to require a significant amount of R&D time to get the algorithms and table blending. Technology rocks!

[cam0719]

I do find it interesting that they have gone back to a Speed Density system, to meet fuel economy/emission standards AND get this level of performance would have to require a significant amount of R&D time to get the algorithms and table blending. Technology rocks!

I think what allowed them to go back to speed density has been changing over to factory wideband O2 sensors. They can nail the fueling with absolute precision in all modes of operation, adapt very quickly (hence why piggybacks don't lean out and blow the engine when they produce speed density numbers that are WAY off), and they make the narrowband/mass air flow system look 'crude' in comparison. So going to speed density/wideband was like 1 step back and 5 steps forward IMO.

[sleeperwagon]

Not sure you can call it a design oversight when VAG cars have done it this way since 2006. Not saying it's right but it's obviously the way they think is correct.

yeah that sucks, I would think they would adjust but its why we are Audi drivers and not Porsche/BMW/etc etc. Its an Audi for a reason so I guess I would not expect it to be a true drivers car. Hence the glass sunroof and no carbon fiber option...why Audi thinks one way of reducing the push in front end is bigger tires...and why us Americans don't get the RS4 Avant, RS3 hatch, manual gear boxes. ETC..... All reasons why I love my RS3 so much. Its the worlds perfect, 4 season daily driver.

[PeteJ]

I think what allowed them to go back to speed density has been changing over to factory wideband O2 sensors. They can nail the fueling with absolute precision in all modes of operation, adapt very quickly (hence why piggybacks don't lean out and blow the engine when they produce speed density numbers that are WAY off), and they make the narrowband/mass air flow system look 'crude' in comparison. So going to speed density/wideband was like 1 step back and 5 steps forward IMO.

They have been using wideband O2 sensors for years with MAF systems. I use a VW part number on my drag car that cross references to a Jetta and I run Speed Density using a Megasquirt. There has to be some other reason behind the technology that allowed for the switch or other manufacturers would have done it years ago just to save the cost of the MAF sensor.

[lalalaprise]

yeah that sucks, I would think they would adjust but its why we are Audi drivers and not Porsche/BMW/etc etc. Its an Audi for a reason so I guess I would not expect it to be a true drivers car. Hence the glass sunroof and no carbon fiber option...why Audi thinks one way of reducing the push in front end is bigger tires...and why us Americans don't get the RS4 Avant, RS3 hatch, manual gear boxes. ETC..... All reasons why I love my RS3 so much. Its the worlds perfect, 4 season daily driver.

PDK has the same shift direction I'm pretty sure.

It will never drive like a 911 or M car but there is so much to love in the RS3

[iliveoncaffiene]

PDK has the same shift direction I'm pretty sure.

It will never drive like a 911 or M car but there is so much to love in the RS3

PDK shifts with the G-forces (pull back to shift to a higher gear, push forward to downshift), and any VAG I've been in has it the other way around.

I kind of agree that I wish you could reprogram that on the DSG shifter. I like pulling back when accelerating to upshift - it just feels more natural

[lalalaprise]

PDK shifts with the G-forces (pull back to shift to a higher gear, push forward to downshift), and any VAG I've been in has it the other way around.

I kind of agree that I wish you could reprogram that on the DSG shifter. I like pulling back when accelerating to upshift - it just feels more natural

Oh ok...thats weird than. You'd think VAG would have it the same across all of their vehicles.

[context.eax]

Anyone know (or could guess) how a stage 1 rs3 will perform against a stage 3+ efr7163 s3 482hp?


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[HBird]

Anyone know (or could guess) how a stage 1 rs3 will perform against a stage 3+ efr7163 s3 482hp?


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At least similar, if not higher.

[McTTRS]

Unitronic already has gotten over 500 HP out of the engine and I would expect even more from APR. See below:
https://i.imgur.com/lfcRaUW.png

[cam0719]

They have been using wideband O2 sensors for years with MAF systems. I use a VW part number on my drag car that cross references to a Jetta and I run Speed Density using a Megasquirt. There has to be some other reason behind the technology that allowed for the switch or other manufacturers would have done it years ago just to save the cost of the MAF sensor.

You are probably right about computing power or other factors being involved. Switching to wideband doesn't mean you have to get rid of MAF, but getting rid of MAF would not have happened without integrating wideband sensors and running closed loop at wide open throttle. This has made modifications and tuning (and pushing the envelope) safer for our cars in my opinion.

[Arin@APR]

Unitronic already has gotten over 500 HP out of the engine and I would expect even more from APR.

Keep in mind, they are advertising ~440 HP stock. I believe that's much higher than we, and others, have ever seen, stock. So, it looks like their dyno reads much higher than others.

[speeddemon69]

Keep in mind, they are advertising ~440 HP stock. I believe that's much higher than we, and others, have ever seen, stock. So, it looks like their dyno reads much higher than others.

You guys use a dynojet like 90% of places? That maha dyno of whatever unitronic uses never seen it down here in Florida before.


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[Arin@APR]

We have a dynapack, a mustang, and a superflow engine dyno. Over in Europe we use a Dynojet. We had a Maha in germany, but it wasn't so great.

[PeteJ]

Keep in mind, they are advertising ~440 HP stock. I believe that's much higher than we, and others, have ever seen, stock. So, it looks like their dyno reads much higher than others.

Arin, I think you have a bit of a type-o. The numbers they advertise are 400 stock and "tested 438". A few other RS3 owners have reported making 360 at the wheels which tells me that Audi grossly underrated these engines (typical) so that 438 number isn't too far out of line.

Regardless, dyno numbers are dyno numbers and we don't drive a dyno down the street. Let's see what the car does on a track and post the weather conditions at the same time. The 10.9X and 11.1X and 125-129 mph trap speeds that Unitronic ran don't lie, let's see what you guys can put down.

[gaspam]

Arin, I think you have a bit of a type-o. The numbers they advertise are 400 stock and "tested 438". A few other RS3 owners have reported making 360 at the wheels which tells me that Audi grossly underrated these engines (typical) so that 438 number isn't too far out of line.


They advertised 438hp stock here per their dyno, not 400

https://www.getunitronic.com/news/8sttrs-and-8vrs3-2-5tfsi-performance-software-by-unitronic

[lalalaprise]

They advertised 438hp stock here per their dyno, not 400

https://www.getunitronic.com/news/8sttrs-and-8vrs3-2-5tfsi-performance-software-by-unitronic

Everyone knows what they meant... at the end of the day the real world numbers recall that matter anyway.

[Arin@APR]

The issue is quoting 500+ HP with a skewed frame of reference. The delta is what matters, but that seems to be lost on most.

[gaspam]

The issue is quoting 500+ HP with a skewed frame of reference. The delta is what matters, but that seems to be lost on most. exactly

[jl87]

...The delta is what matters, but that seems to be lost on most.


exactly

+3

[BaltimoreCaesar]

% delta

[sciblades]

Arin, I think you have a bit of a type-o. The numbers they advertise are 400 stock and "tested 438". A few other RS3 owners have reported making 360 at the wheels which tells me that Audi grossly underrated these engines (typical) so that 438 number isn't too far out of line.

Regardless, dyno numbers are dyno numbers and we don't drive a dyno down the street. Let's see what the car does on a track and post the weather conditions at the same time. The 10.9X and 11.1X and 125-129 mph trap speeds that Unitronic ran don't lie, let's see what you guys can put down.This, it is hard to argue that Unitronic didn't knock it out of the park with their tune, my TTRS did you 10.9 as advertised on pump gas this past week.

I think the ball is in APR's court to try and come out with a better product to convince customers their product is better, I think this will be a first that Apr is not first to market, so it is interesting watching their new marketing strategy to combat getting to the table late for a change.

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[OE2]

I would like to keep from going back and forth about uni vs. apr.

There are things that uni does well (dongle back to stock) and that apr does well (mobile app switching tunes).

I just want all the options (even though my car won't go into production until Dec [wrench])

[Wkraus]

The issue is quoting 500+ HP with a skewed frame of reference. The delta is what matters, but that seems to be lost on most.

Exactly why I took issue on it with another thread on here. Bunch of dirty liars!! I would never buy there product seeing how deceptive they can be.

[GramCracker]

Exactly why I took issue on it with another thread on here. Bunch of dirty liars!! I would never buy there product seeing how deceptive they can be.

Oh the irony that you state this in an APR thread lmbo

[Michigan_Rings]

Oh the irony that you state this in an APR thread lmbo

Lmaooo +1

[S4 00 2.7]

+2 LOL

Sent from Sony mobile

[Wkraus]

Oh the irony that you state this in an APR thread lmbo

I’m not calling apr deceptive, I am however calling out Unitronic on their bad marketing ways. So here’s my plan. I’m gonna follow the uniTronic marketing strategy for the idiot sheep out there. I’m buying a dyno. Gonna calibrate it up so a stock rs3 gets 550 at the wheels. Then I’m gonna apply my tune to the car which will add 67hp. (Same as Unitronic). Then I’m then going to claim my tune added 217 whp. And that makes sense to a lot of people. Since Audi says 400 hp, I was able to see 617 on my exaggerated dyno that measured the car at 550 stock. You hear me cluckin? Not trying to be a douche, even though I am, trying to explain my position is all :-)

[HWCN]

I’m not calling apr deceptive, I am however calling out Unitronic on their bad marketing ways. So here’s my plan. I’m gonna follow the uniTronic marketing strategy for the idiot sheep out there. I’m buying a dyno. Gonna calibrate it up so a stock rs3 gets 550 at the wheels. Then I’m gonna apply my tune to the car which will add 67hp. (Same as Unitronic). Then I’m then going to claim my tune added 217 whp. And that makes sense to a lot of people. Since Audi says 400 hp, I was able to see 617 on my exaggerated dyno that measured the car at 550 stock. You hear me cluckin? Not trying to be a douche, even though I am, trying to explain my position is all :-)

I'm not trying to perpetuate an argument, but you are so missing the irony.

[lalalaprise]

I’m not calling apr deceptive, I am however calling out Unitronic on their bad marketing ways. So here’s my plan. I’m gonna follow the uniTronic marketing strategy for the idiot sheep out there. I’m buying a dyno. Gonna calibrate it up so a stock rs3 gets 550 at the wheels. Then I’m gonna apply my tune to the car which will add 67hp. (Same as Unitronic). Then I’m then going to claim my tune added 217 whp. And that makes sense to a lot of people. Since Audi says 400 hp, I was able to see 617 on my exaggerated dyno that measured the car at 550 stock. You hear me cluckin? Not trying to be a douche, even though I am, trying to explain my position is all :-)

I think you need to do some googling ... May I suggest 'APR, Deception, Cover-up and Lies'

What do they say about glass houses and stones??

Enjoy

[J_3_f_f]

I think you need to do some googling ... May I suggest 'APR, Deception, Cover-up and Lies'

What do they say about glass houses and stones??

Enjoy

LOL it really is hilarious he didn’t get the irony in the first place.




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[Wkraus]

LOL it really is hilarious he didn’t get the irony in the first place.




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But I do get it! I ordered a stage III kit for my 17 golf R. The shop installed it, APR didn’t have the software! There’s a lot more to the story but I basically had called APR every week for three months to find out if the software was ready and they had released that kit again and they told me everything was ready. I also know that there is literally nobody getting the advertised power that they claim from those kits. But they are also not using the stock horsepower that Volkswagen claimed as their base number. They are using their own Dyno and showing the difference that was made. I get it, APR is one of the most deceptive companies out there.

[sean_entrust]

But I do get it! I ordered a stage III kit for my 17 golf R. The shop installed it, APR didn’t have the software! There’s a lot more to the story but I basically had called APR every week for three months to find out if the software was ready and they had released that kit again and they told me everything was ready. I also know that there is literally nobody getting the advertised power that they claim from those kits. But they are also not using the stock horsepower that Volkswagen claimed as their base number. They are using their own Dyno and showing the difference that was made. I get it, APR is one of the most deceptive companies out there.

It's not apr it's everyone. Comparing numbers between tuners is pointless. Every dyno will read different. Even the same dynos in different locations on different days will read different. Apr continues to make solid products and solid gains despite what numbers show. They also typically use dynapacks which can read higher than other dynos.


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[McTTRS]

I get it, APR is one of the most deceptive companies out there.
I have a completely different experience with APR. When the 2016 MK III TTS came out, I drove my Launch Edition car down for APR to verify the tune they had done on another car with the same engine (Golf R or S3 - not sure which). They put my car on their dyno before and after the tune and I have spreadsheets with the results and am looking at the graphs from that data. When comparing the measured results on my car against what APR publishes on their web site for that engine, I find that my car was measured to have more HP and torque than APR published on their web site. In addition, the delta HP and torque were greater than published by APR. I guess different folks have different experiences.

PS - I would post the graph and/or data mentioned above but I was given it under a confidentiality agreement,

[speeddemon69]

I have a completely different experience with APR. When the 2016 MK III TTS came out, I drove my Launch Edition car down for APR to verify the tune they had done on another car with the same engine (Golf R or S3 - not sure which). They put my car on their dyno before and after the tune and I have spreadsheets with the results and am looking at the graphs from that data. When comparing the measured results on my car against what APR publishes on their web site for that engine, I find that my car was measured to have more HP and torque that APR published on their web site. In addition, the delta HP and torque were greater than published by APR. I guess different folks have different experiences.

PS - I would post the graph and/or data mentioned above but I was given it under a confidentiality agreement,

I too had a similar experience as you except mine was almost the same as the advertised hp/tq.


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[lalalaprise]

My point was not to disparage APR...ive used their products in the past. Some i liked and some I didnt. Ditto for Unitronic. At the end of the day these are companies designed to make money. There will always be the fanboys who will defend their preferred company... neither are more virtuous than the other.

[spawn350]

I’m not calling apr deceptive, I am however calling out Unitronic on their bad marketing ways. So here’s my plan. I’m gonna follow the uniTronic marketing strategy for the idiot sheep out there. I’m buying a dyno. Gonna calibrate it up so a stock rs3 gets 550 at the wheels. Then I’m gonna apply my tune to the car which will add 67hp. (Same as Unitronic). Then I’m then going to claim my tune added 217 whp. And that makes sense to a lot of people. Since Audi says 400 hp, I was able to see 617 on my exaggerated dyno that measured the car at 550 stock. You hear me cluckin? Not trying to be a douche, even though I am, trying to explain my position is all :-)

To be fair, my understanding is that they post the biggest delta in HP and not the delta of max HP. If you look at the chart they posted there is a wide delta that narrows some at peak HP. I don't see this as deceitful.

[BaltimoreCaesar]

It's really pretty simple. You take tuner A's baseline stock reading on their dyno, then their tune's dyno number on the same dyno and see what the PERCENT increase is. Then you do the same for tuner B and compare the two tuners percent change over stock and hope no funny business went down with the dyno parameters.

[Jadar]

I’m not calling apr deceptive, I am however calling out Unitronic on their bad marketing ways. So here’s my plan. I’m gonna follow the uniTronic marketing strategy for the idiot sheep out there. I’m buying a dyno. Gonna calibrate it up so a stock rs3 gets 550 at the wheels. Then I’m gonna apply my tune to the car which will add 67hp. (Same as Unitronic). Then I’m then going to claim my tune added 217 whp. And that makes sense to a lot of people. Since Audi says 400 hp, I was able to see 617 on my exaggerated dyno that measured the car at 550 stock. You hear me cluckin? Not trying to be a douche, even though I am, trying to explain my position is all :-)

In all honesty what difference does it make how they state their HP and measurement the cars they advertised with TTRS hit an 10.9 and the RS3 did an 11.1 respectively. This was a proven gain going from 11.9 and 12.0 flat stock in the 1/4.
I'd take a 1800lb car with 190rwhp that does 9's who cares what the dyno says if you are proving it on the track to me this is where tuning and performance shows and proves itself not some glory dyno runs. I bet after all the dust settles and all the tuners come to market all these cars will be within 10hp of one another leave or take. There is only so much you will be able to accomplish on a stock fuel system and stock air compressor just saying.

Dyno is just a measuring tool. Just need delta. Stock vs gain on "the same" dyno.

Unless you are into bragging rights and want to state your car makes over 500whp to your buddies I guess its important but I'll just show them my time slips.

[Arin@APR]

Development continues! Great results so far. Stage 1, Stock hardware. [email protected] MPH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1x-LbrP4Dg

More details to follow.

[brad65ford]

WOW!!!! You guys are the best at teasing.

There are two tunes available now, when will your's be ready?

[speeddemon69]

Oh nice!!!! Really like those numbers!! GOAPR!!


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[gaspam]

nice!!!! pump gas ?

[Jadar]

WOW to the APR video. That bests the UNI tune by .6 tenths. Is this a 93 octane stage 1 tune? Very impressive!

[speeddemon69]

WOW to the APR video. That bests the UNI tune by .6 tenths. Is this a 93 octane stage 1 tune? Very impressive!

Yeah and that trap speed is better too!


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[Diversion]

The heck.. that is insanely fast for just a tune.. good job APR!


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[jiannu]

Can watch this all day!!! WOW!!!!


Development continues! Great results so far. Stage 1, Stock hardware. [email protected] MPH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1x-LbrP4Dg

More details to follow.

Ya but how much weight reduction was involved???....[drool]


WOW to the APR video. That bests the UNI tune by .6 tenths. Is this a 93 octane stage 1 tune? Very impressive!

You have to remember....Uni went and posted a 10.9 with a TTRS. This was an RS3! My understanding is the TTRS will always post better times. Even Hank from Iroz has been posting times with a TTRS. If I had an RS3 I would be getting APR right now....[drool]

[brad65ford]

You have to remember....Uni went and posted a 10.9 with a TTRS. This was an RS3! My understanding is the TTRS will always post better times. Even Hank from Iroz has been posting times with a TTRS. If I had an RS3 I would be getting APR right now....[drool]

Its all good, time will tell with head up races between them etc... Everyone wants to split hairs which is pointless since there are variables especially one said car to the other etc.. The issue I see is we can't purchase it yet.

[spawn350]

Development continues! Great results so far. Stage 1, Stock hardware. [email protected] MPH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1x-LbrP4Dg

More details to follow.

Edit - thought this was really cool till I learned that it's E85. It's still pretty cool, but intentionally dodging the questions is lame. Leaves a bad taste, whereas announcing an E85 tune would have been a positive. Way to kill the mojo.

[Arin@APR]

That's cool with me, but we're not ready to release yet. We still have some more testing to do. :)

[sciblades]

That's cool with me, but we're not ready to release yet. We still have some more testing to do. :)Nice to see you answering questions about the fuel type, tires, weight, and DA

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[crazytex21]

For the first time in 3 years I am excited to see what APR has coming. Bravo, guys.

[Arin@APR]

For the first time in 3 years I am excited to see what APR has coming. Bravo, guys.

Thank you! We have loads more details to share. Enjoy the video for now. All forthcoming!

[OE2]

Arin was that run on race gas?

[spawn350]

Thank you! We have loads more details to share. Enjoy the video for now. All forthcoming! In for update as well - what gas? Any other mod? Weight reduction? Thanks in advance!

[speeddemon69]

Apr!!!! We need details on the run!!!! Lol


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[a4000]

In for update as well - what gas? Any other mod? Weight reduction? Thanks in advance!

If this was full weight, stock wheels/tires, and pump gas, we'd probably know about it already. :-)

[Hyphy]

What was the 60'?


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[jiannu]

I am sure there has been some weight reduction along with semi or full slicks and fuel mix but what everyone does not seem to grasp is this time is blistering fast! Only on software. Imagine adding some bolt on like an intercooler downpipe and pipes. I'm not here to promote APR but come on......