THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[kdaffy]

In the spirit of the oil consumption thread, I am starting this up as I believe it is as relevant to the B8 platform as the oil consuption issues.

There have been more and more of the timing chain tensioner failures popping up in posts so I think it would be beneficial to the community if we consolidate the information in a stick (paging admins)...

Info on pending class action:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712507-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Class-Action-info?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/698056-Timing-Tensioner-Failure-Class-Action-Law-Suit?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/336220-another-class-action-alleges-vw-audi-engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/335859-vw-audi-class-action-targets-hidden-engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/340239-vw-audi-hit-third-class-action-hidden-engine-defect/

THREE class action suits filed for this issue!

Thread with some progress on the class action - looks like it has been filed: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/698056-Timing-Tensioner-Failure-Class-Action-Law-Suit

Threads on the issue:

Member Jerritt: 2009 A4 110k miles http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/710998-VAG-Codes?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Member hockeysc23: 2012 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712195-2012-Audi-A4-72k-Shop-Says-Needs-New-Engine?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Member Abu_boost: no car info? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/708668-A4-B8-Timing-chain-job-P0016?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Member Allowencer: 2010 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/689097-Timing-tensioner-failure-Lucky-me-3-codes-p0011-p0016-amp-p0299-Now-with-Pics?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Member bagged00: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/706466-P0016-code-Questions-and-help-please?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Member Jpitten: 2009 A4 96k miles: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/658234-09-A4-won-t-start?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner


DIY courtesy of Allowencer: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/709550-DIY-Motor-work-Timing-tensioner-or-anything-with-the-motor-and-front-end?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Check your tensioner/good video from huble mechanic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Please chime in with your experiences and missing info. Just wanted to get this started.

[TurboNate]

This is going to be a very depressing thread


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[JD23]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

[Lambda13]

Added this to the DIY compilation.

[kdaffy]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

[blbroo]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.

[The Infiltrator]

Sub'd

[Lambda13]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

If that's the case that is good news for me.

[rjohnson8911]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

[IHave2Turbos]

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

[ddun]

You guys making me nervous now, been away but just started lurking again. I;m still only 67000 miles, but had the car since 09 with a shit load of mods. Thinking about jumping ship!

[hockeysc23]

Since my thread was mentioned. I have a 2012 Audi A4. No issues outside of replacing PCV. Check engine came on at 72k. Took it next day to reputable mechanic. They informed me I needed a new engine due to the damage. There was no poor noises, issues, or negligence done on my part. Oil was properly changed and car was babied. No mods and drove it relatively easily. Would start I think on average 4x a day (to and from work and an errand or two). I did purchase it used at 59k so I cannot speak to before that besides the CARFAX showed maintenance done by Audi.

Car is now with Audi of Arlington. And I'll be nicely pressing Audi to take care of it. A 2012 with 72k miles should not need a new engine, especially a luxury $40K car.

[Allowencer]

Well, you beat me to this 'thread'. I've been meaning to get it going.

From my theread, my post #6 and post #17 have more details and more examples of people that have had failures.

After talking to many shops and 2 dealers as well, this issue is starting to become much more known and for sure, poor maintenance intervals and/or not providing enough oil to the engine if you have oil consumption issues can bring this issue to light earlier than expected. Regardless, this issue doesn't occur because of either of those situations, it's going to happen, within time, because the timing tensioner is poorly designed.


Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.
This is, possibly, the smartest post I've seen in regards to this topic. Bravo; I'm being serious. Yes there is a counter and it's something we should track. I'll get mine so it can be added to this thread.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs Shows how you can check if you have the 'old', will eventually fail, tensioner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs

[Allowencer]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?

[Allowencer]

I'd like to add, just as I've stated in my DIY motor thread (speaking of, I need to sit down and pump out another 'chapter' for you guys), if you swap your old tensioner out, save it! I want to see pics of it! Take the ring off, remove the pawl, flip it over and take a picture. Post it here for us please!

[Captain Amazing]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

[b6Hate4]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

[Captain Amazing]

Yikes, guess I'll keep shopping. Haha. Thanks!

[Allowencer]

I should add in here, I'm willing to lend out all of the special tools you need to do any motor work for a fee. I'm thinking full deposit for what they are worth and then when you return them back to me, as long as they are in the same condition, I'll refund back the difference between a small fee and shipping charges. I think that's fair.

[Allowencer]

Also, B8Nate didn't have a failed timing tensioner, he broke a valve.

[kdaffy]

Also, B8Nate didn't have a failed timing tensioner, he broke a valve.

edited OP. thanks!

[rjohnson8911]

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/dee0c2a0d9531ac4f35ce49e9bd18529.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160625/37489c67f55dca9cea0d007ef187133d.jpg

[bakedziti]

I contacted the lawyer in this thread, who is also the same lawyer that doowopaudi posted a while back in one of our threads.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712507-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Class-Action-info?highlight=timing+chain+tensioner

Mine hasn't failed, and I had mine replaced during stage II of the oil consumption, but I suppose there's always a chance it will fail still.

[Allowencer]

edited OP. thanks!

NP. Did you scroll past my other posts? There's other edits you need to apply too.

[The Infiltrator]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

[bakedziti]

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

[The Infiltrator]

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

Damn... Well at least I don't have to pay for labor so I guess that's a plus. [>_>]

[ddun]

I go in July 13th for surgery, will ask for the old tensioner to inspect for you guys

[kaz02a4]

The more I see these threads, the more worried I get about my 2012. However, getting info on the build dates seems to be key for the on the bubble folks. My build date is March 2012, which seems to fall outside of the revisions made in late 2011 to the tensioner. Anyone have info on the build dates involved? Or how I can (easily) tell which tensioner I have in?

I'm a little gun shy to this situation; the B7 A4 had issues with the cam follower, and a class action covered 2005.5 to 2007 model years. My dad had a 2008, and showed signs of follower wear, even though Audi claimed the issue was "fixed" for the 2008 MY. Not great.

[Allowencer]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/dee0c2a0d9531ac4f35ce49e9bd18529.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160625/37489c67f55dca9cea0d007ef187133d.jpg

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.

[Allowencer]

The more I see these threads, the more worried I get about my 2012. However, getting info on the build dates seems to be key for the on the bubble folks. My build date is March 2012, which seems to fall outside of the revisions made in late 2011 to the tensioner. Anyone have info on the build dates involved? Or how I can (easily) tell which tensioner I have in?

I'm a little gun shy to this situation; the B7 A4 had issues with the cam follower, and a class action covered 2005.5 to 2007 model years. My dad had a 2008, and showed signs of follower wear, even though Audi claimed the issue was "fixed" for the 2008 MY. Not great.
If you watch the video I posted above, it explains what you can do to 'check' to see what tensioner you have.

Unfortunately, at this time, there isn't a list or lookup method where you can check, based on build date of the engine, what tensioner you have. Visual inspection is the guaranteed way.

[Allowencer]

OP - I've provided updates which you haven't added. I have more information as well that should be shared.

No offence, but if you can't, reasonably, update this thread to help the community, I ask you step aside and allow this to occur. Nothing personal or against you, but information, like this, needs to be crystal clear and complete.

[kdaffy]

OP - I've provided updates which you haven't added. I have more information as well that should be shared.

No offence, but if you can't, reasonably, update this thread to help the community, I ask you step aside and allow this to occur. Nothing personal or against you, but information, like this, needs to be crystal clear and complete.

happy to step aside...my life has precluded me from being as active as you expect me to be in this thread.

as this is a forum, i would expect all interested parties to contribute independently of the OP and add value. If you are adding updates, why not update this thread like the big boy you are

First, this should be a sticky - paging admins
Second, any and all forum members who can positively and productively contribute to this thread should do so on their own...we are adults, i dont need to hold you hand.
Lastly, @allowencer, I now appoint you chief thread updater and administrator, absolving myself of any future responsibility in this regard

[kaz02a4]

Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

[Tim R.]

Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Great video but it would be nice to see what all the different versions look like and which are acceptable.

[rjohnson8911]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.
Just called the dealer that did the service, and the chain was definitely never replaced. Looks like I'm going to be adding that to the list of things to replace soon. I don't want to run the risk of the chain letting go. Thanks for all of your help on this!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[belzebutt]

Any news for Canada? Mine just blew up, and it will cost me ~$6000 (still isn't finished). I went to a local mechanic since the dealer basically told me there would be no help and it will likely be more expensive. I wrote to Audi Canada and didn't hear back.

[Marko S]

Any news for Canada? Mine just blew up, and it will cost me ~$6000 (still isn't finished). I went to a local mechanic since the dealer basically told me there would be no help and it will likely be more expensive. I wrote to Audi Canada and didn't hear back.
Whats your milage and year of car?

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[Allowencer]

happy to step aside...my life has precluded me from being as active as you expect me to be in this thread.

as this is a forum, i would expect all interested parties to contribute independently of the OP and add value. If you are adding updates, why not update this thread like the big boy you are

First, this should be a sticky - paging admins
Second, any and all forum members who can positively and productively contribute to this thread should do so on their own...we are adults, i dont need to hold you hand.
Lastly, @allowencer, I now appoint you chief thread updater and administrator, absolving myself of any future responsibility in this regard

I completely agree and encourage anyone to provide value here. However, if that value / new details are not added to the first, main post, then it will be overlooked. You know, as well as everyone else, people will not read 'every' post in this thread so the other details will get overlooked. Again, I'm not trying to dismiss you, but since you clearly wanted to take the effort and role to start and run with this, all I ask is keep it moving forward properly. If not, let me know and I'll gladly do it. Your call.
Again, I see you edited it, but did not apply all the updates...


Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Yep, great video. I had this posted in the P0016 thread I started.


Great video but it would be nice to see what all the different versions look like and which are acceptable.
I think I can help with that [;)]. Give me a bit to gather the info.


Just called the dealer that did the service, and the chain was definitely never replaced. Looks like I'm going to be adding that to the list of things to replace soon. I don't want to run the risk of the chain letting go. Thanks for all of your help on this!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
No problem; anytime.

[Allowencer]

This is the tensioner that is the main stream one found in majority of the 2.0T short block:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7061/26830314992_f92a6e57f2_o.jpg

The first 9 characters is the part number of the tensioner. The "IT" you see, in the picture, is the country code it was made in; this one is made in Italy.

In the upper, right corner you will noticed an engraved/stamped 'T'. This is an older generation tensioner which is prone to fail.

The other 2 generation models are 'N' & 'AB' (respectively: 06H-109-467-N, 06H-109-467-AB)

There isn't a lot of differences between 'T' / 'N' / 'AB' from what I can tell. I've only held 'T' in my own hands, so that's all that I can comment on (in regards to the older generation tensioners). Here are pictures of them I've found on the internet:
Generation 'N' (right) in comparison to the newer generation 'K' (left):
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7483/27886871612_564b4ba74d_o.jpg

Here is an 'AB' older generation tensioner (sorry the pic is so small; that's the best I could find):
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7467/27886871702_7f185d8e59_o.jpg


Here is the newest generation tensioner and what it looks like:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7784/26651026610_cb095563a3_o.jpg

The retaining clip, in the picture, will not be there when it is installed in the motor. This holds the piston, within its bore, for installation purposes.

There are 2 key differences on the new tensioner:

#1: The new design, which replaces the pawl that was held in by a retaining ring, is a wrapping spring clip that goes around the grooves that are cut into the piston. You can just barely see it, under the clip. Here's a better view of what that clip looks like:
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7352/27708929270_512e4981af_o.jpg

The one that is made in China, which I have no proof/evidence if it was a good component or not, looks like this:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7400/27375501544_c42a4b43dc_o.jpg
If you were to ask me what one to get, I'd tell ya to try and ensure to get the Italian one [;)]

#2: Going back to the 1st picture of the newer style tensioner, you can see there is an engraved/stamped 'K' at the top. This signifies it is the latest revision.

- - - Updated - - -

Another great link with info and has been quite busy lately with people commenting that their tensioners have failed:
http://shopdap.com/2-0t-vw-and-audi-tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-problems/

[kaz02a4]

Allowencer, you are awesome. Excellent work. [up]

Next weekend, I'm going to put my car up and check to see which tensioner I have. I'll post pics of the shots you can expect to see when you're under the car, checking your own tensioner. Beyond doing the DIY to replace the tensioner (which I won't do anytime soon), there isn't much else I can offer on this...

[IHave2Turbos]

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

Was anyone able to get at this counter?

[kdaffy]

I completely agree and encourage anyone to provide value here. However, if that value / new details are not added to the first, main post, then it will be overlooked. You know, as well as everyone else, people will not read 'every' post in this thread so the other details will get overlooked. Again, I'm not trying to dismiss you, but since you clearly wanted to take the effort and role to start and run with this, all I ask is keep it moving forward properly. If not, let me know and I'll gladly do it. Your call.
Again, I see you edited it, but did not apply all the updates...


its all you man - you are now chief thread editor as I appointed you yesterday. like i said in the OP, i just wanted to get this started - no where did i say i wanted to "run with this". the thread was created in the spirit of the oil consumption thread sticky in the main forum, which has nothing in the OP tracking and maintaining and indexing the follow on posts. that thread has been going strong for nearly six years without issue. also there is a great search tool for each thread that members can and should use if they dont feel like reading the whole thing..

that said, since i am failing to meet your expectations, you can take over, or start another thread called "THE OFFICIAL TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER THREAD BROUGHT TO YOU AND CONTINUALLY MAINTAINED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS BY ALLOWENCER". i have neither the time, nor the wherewithal to meet your high expectations, and dont appreciate being called out on it on multiple occassions. maybe we should just delete this thread altogether.

im done, ive passed the torch to you.

[Marko S]

This is the tensioner that is the main stream one found in majority of the 2.0T short block:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7061/26830314992_f92a6e57f2_o.jpg

The first 9 characters is the part number of the tensioner. The "IT" you see, in the picture, is the country code it was made in; this one is made in Italy.

In the upper, right corner you will noticed an engraved/stamped 'T'. This is an older generation tensioner which is prone to fail.

The other 2 generation models are 'N' & 'AB' (respectively: 06H-109-467-N, 06H-109-467-AB)

There isn't a lot of differences between 'T' / 'N' / 'AB' from what I can tell. I've only held 'T' in my own hands, so that's all that I can comment on (in regards to the older generation tensioners). Here are pictures of them I've found on the internet:
Generation 'N' (right) in comparison to the newer generation 'K' (left):
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7483/27886871612_564b4ba74d_o.jpg

Here is an 'AB' older generation tensioner (sorry the pic is so small; that's the best I could find):
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7467/27886871702_7f185d8e59_o.jpg


Here is the newest generation tensioner and what it looks like:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7784/26651026610_cb095563a3_o.jpg

The retaining clip, in the picture, will not be there when it is installed in the motor. This holds the piston, within its bore, for installation purposes.

There are 2 key differences on the new tensioner:

#1: The new design, which replaces the pawl that was held in by a retaining ring, is a wrapping spring clip that goes around the grooves that are cut into the piston. You can just barely see it, under the clip. Here's a better view of what that clip looks like:
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7352/27708929270_512e4981af_o.jpg

The one that is made in China, which I have no proof/evidence if it was a good component or not, looks like this:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7400/27375501544_c42a4b43dc_o.jpg
If you were to ask me what one to get, I'd tell ya to try and ensure to get the Italian one [;)]

#2: Going back to the 1st picture of the newer style tensioner, you can see there is an engraved/stamped 'K' at the top. This signifies it is the latest revision.

- - - Updated - - -

Another great link with info and has been quite busy lately with people commenting that their tensioners have failed:
http://shopdap.com/2-0t-vw-and-audi-tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-problems/
Youre the man! That link was very helpful. Will inspect my tensioner this weekend.

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[skywalker15]

Figured I would chime in since I was a "victim" of this fun little mechanical failure (sarcasm). Anyways, 2009 with roughly 125k on it before the tensioner failed. I can tell you at least in my experience there was no pre-failure signs of characteristics (noise, chatter) the days/weeks leading up to it failing. Came out of the gym one night, started it and it failed.

I did all the repairs myself, but in short ended up replacing valves, re-machining the head, new gaskets, tensioner, guide rails, and chain. My word of advice after seeing the original tensioner is anyone who has that model tensioner and wants their car to last, change it. It will fail. The retaining ring/backing plate that mechanically stops the piston from retracting on start-up is a bit of a joke.

Also, I've read some DIY's (not in audizine) that timing these motors is a challenge. Yes, you need to be very careful and diligent however if you take your time, follow the marks, and hand crank to test clearance once you get everything tightened up it really isn't that bad.

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[Allowencer]

Allowencer, you are awesome. Excellent work. [up]

Next weekend, I'm going to put my car up and check to see which tensioner I have. I'll post pics of the shots you can expect to see when you're under the car, checking your own tensioner. Beyond doing the DIY to replace the tensioner (which I won't do anytime soon), there isn't much else I can offer on this...

No problem; you're welcome. I want to help you guys as much as I can.


Was anyone able to get at this counter?
Yes, it's in VAGCOM. I think it's under the vehicle info area. I can provide exact navigation if you're having difficulties finding it; might help myself too since I don't recall exactly where, heh.


its all you man - you are now chief thread editor as I appointed you yesterday. like i said in the OP, i just wanted to get this started - no where did i say i wanted to "run with this". the thread was created in the spirit of the oil consumption thread sticky in the main forum, which has nothing in the OP tracking and maintaining and indexing the follow on posts. that thread has been going strong for nearly six years without issue. also there is a great search tool for each thread that members can and should use if they dont feel like reading the whole thing..

that said, since i am failing to meet your expectations, you can take over, or start another thread called "THE OFFICIAL TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER THREAD BROUGHT TO YOU AND CONTINUALLY MAINTAINED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS BY ALLOWENCER". i have neither the time, nor the wherewithal to meet your high expectations, and dont appreciate being called out on it on multiple occassions. maybe we should just delete this thread altogether.

im done, ive passed the torch to you.

OK man... I won't bother you; sorry. Go have a pint...


Youre the man! That link was very helpful. Will inspect my tensioner this weekend.
No problem; you're welcome.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk


Figured I would chime in since I was a "victim" of this fun little mechanical failure (sarcasm). Anyways, 2009 with roughly 125k on it before the tensioner failed. I can tell you at least in my experience there was no pre-failure signs of characteristics (noise, chatter) the days/weeks leading up to it failing. Came out of the gym one night, started it and it failed.

I did all the repairs myself, but in short ended up replacing valves, re-machining the head, new gaskets, tensioner, guide rails, and chain. My word of advice after seeing the original tensioner is anyone who has that model tensioner and wants their car to last, change it. It will fail. The retaining ring/backing plate that mechanically stops the piston from retracting on start-up is a bit of a joke.

Also, I've read some DIY's (not in audizine) that timing these motors is a challenge. Yes, you need to be very careful and diligent however if you take your time, follow the marks, and hand crank to test clearance once you get everything tightened up it really isn't that bad.

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Spoken from experience and summed up well. The pawl is terrible and will fail in due time. You are correct on there will not be noise prior to the failure to warn you.

[IHave2Turbos]

Thanks Allowencer, I don't own the cable so I can't test either way.

[pkny]

It seems that there is always a demon that's included with each generation of a4.
B6 sludge, b7 cam follower, b8 timing chain tensioner. ......... wonder what the b9 brings, the suspense. B8.5 seems to be solid at least.

Now that we know these things fail, not all of us have the time or tools to change out the chain and tensioner. If anyone does get it replace, please post up price and location. Or if there is a regional guru who can offer support, even better. Since most in this thread may change it before the car go through a stage II oil consumption fix from the dealership.

I just took possession of a 09 avant with 46k miles. May have it changed around the 60k to 80k period, I start my car alot.

[skywalker15]

I wish I could provide some sort quote for having this done pre-failure. I can say I was quoted ~6000 to have it repaired after the fact (obviously much more work at that point).

If anyone has any questions about performing it yourself, feel free to ask away.

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[IHave2Turbos]

so far for various kits it seems be fair to say that pre-failiure intervention costs:

Hardware "kits" between $400 - $700 by the time you factor in upper/lower covers, upper/lower chains and other "while I'm in there" type parts

Independent Labor seems to be consistently quoted between $600 - $1000 as to account for different parts of the country.

Dealership Labor? I do not know but in my experience will easily be 3x on top of a "normal" quote

[Poodini]

Now that I'm at 110k mark, I'm trying to decide on which kit to get. Blbroo found a 'basic' lower tensioner+cover kit. It would seem like the logical step since it's the tensioner in our older B8s which had the most issues.
That said, if one were to only do the tensioner and not the chains themselves or supporting hardware, you run a greater risk for something else to go.
So for those of you who have suggestions as far as which kit to go with, that'd be awesome. On a bit of a budget so don't want to break the bank and certainly don't wanna skimp either. Just trying to find THST nice bLance of performance, reliability, and priced reasonably.


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[cuda2000]

Can someone state how many hours the fix takes? That way we could determine total cost. The Audi dealer near me charges $160/hr. I'm sure I could find someone experienced in audi's that is cheaper than that. How many hours?

[blbroo]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160703/42b2621d1c60cc80a776451f9a40a18e.jpg

https://vimeo.com/173196071

Done

[Allowencer]

Post the pic of your pawl!

[blbroo]

Post the pic of your pawl!


Sorry, i forgot that one.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160703/63020711520946ec13f7659db92e5665.jpg


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160703/488a2389fd4f530e59db3ce06951972a.jpg

[Darksol80]

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.




When mine was replaced last year by West County Audi in StL they made no mention of previous oil consumption issues being related. My engine got the Audi rebuild in the 60k range and my timing tensioner was going with 115K or so on it. If prior oil consumption is a contributing factor then Audi should be replacing timing sets on ALL cars that have had oil consumption stage II done I would think.

[blbroo]

When mine was replaced last year by West County Audi in StL they made no mention of previous oil consumption issues being related. My engine got the Audi rebuild in the 60k range and my timing tensioner was going with 115K or so on it. If prior oil consumption is a contributing factor then Audi should be replacing timing sets on ALL cars that have had oil consumption stage II done I would think.


I need to meet up with you to see how our cars compare

[JD23]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160703/42b2621d1c60cc80a776451f9a40a18e.jpg

Done




How many miles/years did you get on the original tensioner?

[blbroo]

How many miles/years did you get on the original tensioner?

107,000 miles. It didn't fail, just replaced it preventively.

[rjohnson8911]

I'll add to this mix.

I called a very reputable shop in my area called C's Autohaus, that everyone I know that owns a VAG/BMW/Mercedes car takes their cars to, and asked them about replacing my timing chain. They told me that as long as the tensioner has been replaced with the updated one (mine was when the oil consumption service was done and pistons/bearings were replaced as well as chain guides,) that they do not feel the chain needs replaced at all. They have several of these cars in the 160k+ miles range that they regularly service, and they said they've never needed to replace a chain on any of these motors as long as the tensioner is updated.

They could have easily told me to bring it in and take my money, but they went as far to say that they felt I'd be wasting my money if I did it, but they'd happily do it if I insisted on having it done.

It seems you will always find differing opinions lol. Not sharing to purposely add to confusion... just throwing this in to offer another perspective.

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[STA4]

2009 with 60k miles. No start, tried twice. Pulled code and got P0016. Happened just after I failed the stage 2 oil consumption test. Car is TD1 and they are refusing to cover it.

Took it to independent shop, they pulled the upper cover off and this is what they saw:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/58d3fe28ac6c780c1246512e5d33cb5c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/db96ee7838636b70dc625d412046d82e.jpg

As you can see, the chain is actually sitting on top of the teeth.

Shoo will replace the parts and re-time. Then they'll perform a leak down test to see if any of the valves were damaged before pulling the head. Wish me luck...

[pkny]

^^^^^ [o_o]

That is scary! Ok, guys. I am at 46k miles and no tune. Can i change out the tensioner and leave the belt? Chain shouldn't stretch unless it is put unload higher then normal loads right?
Actually, what is causing the chain to stretch? If the tensioner gets loose over time, shouldn't relieve stress on the chain?

[skywalker15]

^^^^^ [o_o]

That is scary! Ok, guys. I am at 46k miles and no tune. Can i change out the tensioner and leave the belt? Chain shouldn't stretch unless it is put unload higher then normal loads right?
Actually, what is causing the chain to stretch? If the tensioner gets loose over time, shouldn't relieve stress on the chain?
You can change out the tensioner and leave the chain and not replace it. My recommendation is if you're in there already you may as well replace the chain too while also inspecting the guides. If you decide to only swap out the tensioner you'd still be fine for many more miles, I just prefer to do preventative maintenance like that if I'm already in the middle of a job anyway.

The chains will stretch over time even with the natural, designed stress of the system. In my case, I had 130k miles when I swapped everything and the "stretch" on my chain was fairly minimal when comparing it to the new one I put on.

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[JD23]

It's almost amusing that Audi is still pulling a Sgt. Schultz regarding the timing chain tensioner, just as it did with oil consumption until the class action settlement. It seems that every generation of 1.8T/2.0T has at least one fatal flaw.

[Poodini]

2009 with 60k miles. No start, tried twice. Pulled code and got P0016. Happened just after I failed the stage 2 oil consumption test. Car is TD1 and they are refusing to cover it.

Took it to independent shop, they pulled the upper cover off and this is what they saw:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/58d3fe28ac6c780c1246512e5d33cb5c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/db96ee7838636b70dc625d412046d82e.jpg

As you can see, the chain is actually sitting on top of the teeth.

Shoo will replace the parts and re-time. Then they'll perform a leak down test to see if any of the valves were damaged before pulling the head. Wish me luck...

That's ROUGH! Bro, I'd seriously bang on your local dealership and escalate it to AONA! The key is to come at them reasonably and not sound demanding. I went through a similar situation with the whole waste gate valve/underboost nonsense. Having already replaced the turbo TWICE before for the exact same issue, got the same error code @ 95k. At 1st the local dealership said because I was past the 77k 'grace period' as part of the oil consumption/premature turbo failure consolation prize, I was SOL. HELL NAH! You mean to tell me it's a reasonable expectation that the turbo needs to be replaced every 2-3 years??!! If that's the case, you just lost a customer!
After some back n forth w AONA expressing my lack of consumer confidence DESPITE my desire to keep the car, they finally came thru w a 'Goodwill Repair'. Audi fronted me the replacement turbo and I was on the hook for the install. 60/40 split but hey, better than getting shown the door!
Persistence pays but be rational w them, present your case, and don't give up!
[emoji1598]


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[STA4]

That's ROUGH! Bro, I'd seriously bang on your local dealership and escalate it to AONA! The key is to come at them reasonably and not sound demanding. I went through a similar situation with the whole waste gate valve/underboost nonsense. Having already replaced the turbo TWICE before for the exact same issue, got the same error code @ 95k. At 1st the local dealership said because I was past the 77k 'grace period' as part of the oil consumption/premature turbo failure consolation prize, I was SOL. HELL NAH! You mean to tell me it's a reasonable expectation that the turbo needs to be replaced every 2-3 years??!! If that's the case, you just lost a customer!
After some back n forth w AONA expressing my lack of consumer confidence DESPITE my desire to keep the car, they finally came thru w a 'Goodwill Repair'. Audi fronted me the replacement turbo and I was on the hook for the install. 60/40 split but hey, better than getting shown the door!
Persistence pays but be rational w them, present your case, and don't give up!
[emoji1598]


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Your post motivated me to try the dealership route one last time. I spoke to the service manager face-to-face today and he said that just by chance, Audi of Canada gave the go ahead today on a different repair on a car flagged TD1 because the failure was common and unrelated to the modification and the car was eligible for the extended warranty campaign.

I'm praying that they cover the piston replacement, which includes the timing chain, tensioners and guides. This could significantly reduce my repair bill.

[Poodini]

Your post motivated me to try the dealership route one last time. I spoke to the service manager face-to-face today and he said that just by chance, Audi of Canada gave the go ahead today on a different repair on a car flagged TD1 because the failure was common and unrelated to the modification and the car was eligible for the extended warranty campaign.

I'm praying that they cover the piston replacement, which includes the timing chain, tensioners and guides. This could significantly reduce my repair bill.

All the best!
Just stay the course, be persistent but not a PITA about it either! I remember when all was said and done w my turbo drama. My service rep, who I've known for the life of the car, and have kept a good rapport with, told me AONA could have easily declined any assistance since I was out of warranty. That said, he mentioned his boss and the AONA rep handling my case responded favorably due, in large part, to how I approached them and made my case. He said often times customers get pissed and start making demands. Obviously, they'll be far less inclined to help you.
My takeaway...come at them respectfully but also firmly! Make sure to have any copies of service records to show you've maintained proper service as well as a timeline as to when it went south. Organization and communication are KEY!


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[IHave2Turbos]

Stupid question that I am almost afraid to ask.... Has anyone ever had success in getting the dealer/AoA to do a goodwill swap on the tensioner BEFORE it blows? It should take them 20 minutes to determine the tensioner part number through the lower timing cover inspection panel. If you have a known bad part that has been superceded 4 times shouldn't they try to change it now and save the $4000-5000 settlement fee?

[Marko S]

Stupid question that I am almost afraid to ask.... Has anyone ever had success in getting the dealer/AoA to do a goodwill swap on the tensioner BEFORE it blows? It should take them 20 minutes to determine the tensioner part number through the lower timing cover inspection panel. If you have a known bad part that has been superceded 4 times shouldn't they try to change it now and save the $4000-5000 settlement fee?

I spoke with my dealership in Toronto yesterday about this. First off, they told me that the whole front end needs to be removed for them to inspect....... after I told him that they could look through the inspection hole, they said they'd call me back...then called and restated the front end needs to be taken apart. Might need to look into changing dealerships...

An they quoted me $1500 to do the job.

[blbroo]

Stupid question that I am almost afraid to ask.... Has anyone ever had success in getting the dealer/AoA to do a goodwill swap on the tensioner BEFORE it blows? It should take them 20 minutes to determine the tensioner part number through the lower timing cover inspection panel. If you have a known bad part that has been superceded 4 times shouldn't they try to change it now and save the $4000-5000 settlement fee?

All three dealers that I talked to acted like I was nuts for thinking the part needed swapped out. All suggested that some other issue would cause the failure and there would be plenty of warning signs. "we will do it, but you are spending money for no benefit" type answer.

I changed the tensioner myself this past weekend.

[IHave2Turbos]

OK so who on the board is willing to fly/drive to NJ and help me do this? The work doesn't bother me at all, setting the timing is what scares me. I have all the tools except for the "special" ones... Name a price because $1200-1400 for "maintenance" is not normal on a "lifetime" part in my opinion. Audi needs to fuck themselves.

[blbroo]

OK so who on the board is willing to fly/drive to NJ and help me do this? The work doesn't bother me at all, setting the timing is what scares me. I have all the tools except for the "special" ones... Name a price because $1200-1400 for "maintenance" is not normal on a "lifetime" part in my opinion. Audi needs to fuck themselves.

Since I just replaced the tensioner, there was no timing issue to worry about. The crank pulley can only go back on in one orientation. Allowencer scolded me for not replacing the chains, but I had numerous aftermarket audi shops say it wasn't necessary if the tensioner hadn't failed yet.

[skywalker15]

OK so who on the board is willing to fly/drive to NJ and help me do this? The work doesn't bother me at all, setting the timing is what scares me. I have all the tools except for the "special" ones... Name a price because $1200-1400 for "maintenance" is not normal on a "lifetime" part in my opinion. Audi needs to fuck themselves.
Following up with what blbroo said, you don't necessarily have to change the chain therefore you won't have to re-time everything. Like I said in a previous post, chains in any motor will "stretch" over time, however that stretch is very minimal so you'd probably be fine only changing the tensioner. The difference between the new chain and old chain for me after 130k miles and the old one going through a failure was very small.

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[IHave2Turbos]

How were you guides or did you not check for scoring/wear? I feel like if I'm going to go through all the work of opening up the front of the motor i might as well change every thing in there to latest and greatest parts.

[skywalker15]

How were you guides or did you not check for scoring/wear? I feel like if I'm going to go through all the work of opening up the front of the motor i might as well change every thing in there to latest and greatest parts.
I checked all my guides and ended up not replacing them. Mine were still in very good shape and there was very very little wear. I know others have seen pretty significant wear so it all depends I guess.

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[TurboNate]

Hey guys. Quick question. So today in the morning, my car took a while to crank, but I didn't think much of it. But then as I was driving, I could smell gas inside the car. After a while it went away. Later on today it happened again and the smell wouldn't go away. I just got home and popped open the hood and there was a constant and loud ticking noise.. I think my tensioner has gone bad :( is that what has happened? [emoji30]


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[Gunnark100]

Hey guys. Quick question. So today in the morning, my car took a while to crank, but I didn't think much of it. But then as I was driving, I could smell gas inside the car. After a while it went away. Later on today it happened again and the smell wouldn't go away. I just got home and popped open the hood and there was a constant and loud ticking noise.. I think my tensioner has gone bad :( is that what has happened? [emoji30]
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Loud ticking - not good(maybe chain jumped one teeth only or something), do you have vcds to check 01 engine module for faults? My failed completely week ago in cold start, got loud ticking after 10 seconds, switched ignition off.

milage 96000 miles

Error in memory was
2795 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 00 [101] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:

[TurboNate]

Loud ticking - not good(maybe chain jumped one teeth only or something), do you have vcds to check 01 engine module for faults? My failed completely week ago in cold start, got loud ticking after 10 seconds, switched ignition off.

milage 96000 miles

Error in memory was
2795 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 00 [101] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:

I do not have a vcds


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[Gunnark100]

I do not have a vcds


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Do not start your car anymore if you had LOUD ticking, before scan and inspection, you may save some money, if vales etc have not damaged yet!

BTW i had weird noise(like something broke) when car cranked and it took a bit longer then usual to start, so i kind of knew what happened...

[TurboNate]

Do not start your car anymore if you had LOUD ticking, before scan and inspection, you may save some money, if vales etc have not damaged yet!

BTW i had weird noise(like something broke) when car cranked and it took a bit longer then usual to start, so i kind of knew what happened...

I haven't heard that kind of noise yet, and what do you think the smell of fuel could be coming from? Could it just be my injectors? That wouldn't explain the ticking though


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[Gunnark100]

I haven't heard that kind of noise yet, and what do you think the smell of fuel could be coming from? Could it just be my injectors? That wouldn't explain the ticking though

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Engine really not my thing:), some info regarding fuel smell, different engine but still:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/715068-Fuel-smell-in-cabin

And here one more, smell but no ticking:

First post:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/383430-THE-B8-A4-Oil-Consumption-Thread?p=5613808&viewfull=1#post5613808

Hopefully nothing serious!

[TurboNate]

Engine really not my thing:), some info regarding fuel smell, different engine but still:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/715068-Fuel-smell-in-cabin

And here one more, smell but no ticking:

First post:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/383430-THE-B8-A4-Oil-Consumption-Thread?p=5613808&viewfull=1#post5613808

Hopefully nothing serious!

After reading the first link I think it might be my injector seal because one of them popped off when I was doing some carbon cleaning. I'm just wondering why I'm just now starting to smell it, when procedure was done on June 23rd.


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[Marko S]

Looks like this thread has started some serious paranoia..myself included. I've been looking at different kits/tensioners and will be doing this in a month or so. As others have stated, while youre in there you might as well get the chain done. My question is, how far do you really need to take it.

Europaparts has this kit: https://www.europaparts.com/timing-chain-kit-2-0t-tsi-af.html

ECS has this kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Timing/ES2592683/

@poodini referred me to this kit on ebay as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301827892355

For preventative maintenance this seems like overkill to me..? From what I understand, IF the tensioner has stopped doing its job, then the chain would stretch so those two should be replaced. I don't see how the guides could be damaged from this? And only one of the two tensioners needs to be changed?

Obviously when I open it up and inspect it I'll be able to check out the damage if any, but I'd rather have the parts I need, and am trying to determine which ones aren't necessary (ie. replacing valves if there wasn't a failure)

[gt854t5]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,

[Poodini]

Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,

It sounds like they simply replaced the parts that were excessively worn or known to be problematic, i.e. your tensioner.

I can't speak to whether your dealership addressed this issue properly vs doing the minimum required. It would be helpful to know, for example, of those cars whose tensioners crapped out, were the other components like the guides and rails also worn down/in play. Speaking as a layman with no mechanical background, I would think a continually moving system like the timing chains should warrant replacing the complimentary parts that work with said system.
I was considering just doing the tensioner only kit. We already know that it's the principle culprit and subsequently has been updated. That said, if you're nearing/at the 90k mark and are planning to hang onto your B8 for at least another 25-50k, it makes sense to just do the full kit. A couple hundred extra is a small amount to pay for peace of mind and greatly increases not only the all around performance of your car, but it greatly reduces the potential for it going south. This especially holds true if you're running an ECU program or other mods to push our engines outside of factory settings.

Just my 2 centavos.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160713/de3feb35610d8b9c9f56f81621cdad6a.jpg

I'm having my kit installed Thursday. Will report back after work is completed.




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[skywalker15]

Looks like this thread has started some serious paranoia..myself included. I've been looking at different kits/tensioners and will be doing this in a month or so. As others have stated, while youre in there you might as well get the chain done. My question is, how far do you really need to take it.

Europaparts has this kit: https://www.europaparts.com/timing-chain-kit-2-0t-tsi-af.html

ECS has this kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Timing/ES2592683/

@poodini referred me to this kit on ebay as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301827892355

For preventative maintenance this seems like overkill to me..? From what I understand, IF the tensioner has stopped doing its job, then the chain would stretch so those two should be replaced. I don't see how the guides could be damaged from this? And only one of the two tensioners needs to be changed?

Obviously when I open it up and inspect it I'll be able to check out the damage if any, but I'd rather have the parts I need, and am trying to determine which ones aren't necessary (ie. replacing valves if there wasn't a failure)
These kits are extensive, but a lot of whats included in them are necessary to do the job even if you're only changing the timing chain tensioner and chain (seals/gaskets etc should all be changed).

To alleviate some of the confusion, chains can stretch even if the tensioner does not fail. This is one of the reasons why tensioners such as this have the capability to "adjust" or "extend" and are not completely static. The guides that the chain rides on can get worn out over time, this will be engine dependent as some other folks saw significant wear with their guides and some have not (i did not see much wear) so you may or may not have to replace them.

As for having to only replace the one tensioner, in short it's because the one we are changing is the only one that fails. There are three tensioners, two for the timing chain and one for the chain from the crank to oil pump. The second timing chain tensioner is essentially a large static bolt, it does not move or adjust and there really isn't any failure mode. The third tensioner is a mechanical spring assembly, again there really isn't a failure mode.

I did not buy a kit when I swapped mine out, what I ended up buying was the timing chain, chain tensioner, and new seals/gaskets which for me was cheaper than buying the whole kit.

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[Marko S]

These kits are extensive, but a lot of whats included in them are necessary to do the job even if you're only changing the timing chain tensioner and chain (seals/gaskets etc should all be changed).

To alleviate some of the confusion, chains can stretch even if the tensioner does not fail. This is one of the reasons why tensioners such as this have the capability to "adjust" or "extend" and are not completely static. The guides that the chain rides on can get worn out over time, this will be engine dependent as some other folks saw significant wear with their guides and some have not (i did not see much wear) so you may or may not have to replace them.

As for having to only replace the one tensioner, in short it's because the one we are changing is the only one that fails. There are three tensioners, two for the timing chain and one for the chain from the crank to oil pump. The second timing chain tensioner is essentially a large static bolt, it does not move or adjust and there really isn't any failure mode. The third tensioner is a mechanical spring assembly, again there really isn't a failure mode.

I did not buy a kit when I swapped mine out, what I ended up buying was the timing chain, chain tensioner, and new seals/gaskets which for me was cheaper than buying the whole kit.

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That makes sense. Europaparts allows you to configure what you want to buy. What gaskets did you replace?

[Poodini]

All three dealers that I talked to acted like I was nuts for thinking the part needed swapped out. All suggested that some other issue would cause the failure and there would be plenty of warning signs. "we will do it, but you are spending money for no benefit" type answer.

I changed the tensioner myself this past weekend.

[emoji1363] More power to you Blbroo for taking on the job yourself! I on the other hand wouldn't want to even consider diy'ing it! Hats off sir!
I'm having my local shop do the kit install tomorrow. I'll ask if he can take a couple pics once he's got it apart and see how the components look after 110k!


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[skywalker15]

That makes sense. Europaparts allows you to configure what you want to buy. What gaskets did you replace?
I replaced the gasket for the upper timing cover (black plastic cover) and the circular gasket for the sensor that goes through that cover. Also you will need some gasket sealant for the lower timing cover (black metal cover). Be careful taking the lower metal cover off, I know some on here have managed to crack or break the flange meaning you'll need to buy a new one. If you take your time and use a flat head screwdriver to slowly work your way around the cover to separate it from the block you should be fine.

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[Marko S]

I replaced the gasket for the upper timing cover (black plastic cover) and the circular gasket for the sensor that goes through that cover. Also you will need some gasket sealant for the lower timing cover (black metal cover). Be careful taking the lower metal cover off, I know some on here have managed to crack or break the flange meaning you'll need to buy a new one. If you take your time and use a flat head screwdriver to slowly work your way around the cover to separate it from the block you should be fine.

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Ok thanks! I saw like 10 different gaskets on that website and didnt think id need to replace half of them but that helps alot! I read somewhere (or saw a vid) that said you should replace the cover so was going to do that. But it makes sense if youre careful and dont bend it you shouldnt have problems.

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[STA4]

Update on my situation. They're covering the stage 2 work and new chain/tensioner, but any extra parts and labor are my responsibility. I approved an inspection of the head (4-5 hrs) and got news back today that valves were bent and the head is damaged. They said a new one is like $4600, but they will look into finding a used one for me.

[skywalker15]

Update on my situation. They're covering the stage 2 work and new chain/tensioner, but any extra parts and labor are my responsibility. I approved an inspection of the head (4-5 hrs) and got news back today that valves were bent and the head is damaged. They said a new one is like $4600, but they will look into finding a used one for me.
That's both good and bad news, that sucks the head was damaged. At least you got them to agree to cover some of the work. Sorry man.

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[nycaudi]

Update on my situation. They're covering the stage 2 work and new chain/tensioner, but any extra parts and labor are my responsibility. I approved an inspection of the head (4-5 hrs) and got news back today that valves were bent and the head is damaged. They said a new one is like $4600, but they will look into finding a used one for me.

Thats fucked up. Sorry man and good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[kaz02a4]

Checked my tensioner today. No pictures for you guys, because it's a hard spot to get into. But just some information:

-MY 2012
-In service date of 3/2012
-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)
-Tensioner model N or AB
--It has that black ring with the two metal lips around it (on the right)

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg

It's impossible to see any text from the small window in the timing cover. All you can really tell is the geometry and the material (color, metal vs. plastic, etc.). That's how I determined which tensioner I have. So 2012 A4s are not safe, at least from the data point I have. If one of you can point me in the direction for a build date, that would help fill in some more gaps here.

[nycaudi]

Checked my tensioner today. No pictures for you guys, because it's a hard spot to get into. But just some information:

-MY 2012
-In service date of 3/2012
-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)
-Tensioner model N or AB
--It has that black ring with the two metal lips around it (on the right)

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg

It's impossible to see any text from the small window in the timing cover. All you can really tell is the geometry and the material (color, metal vs. plastic, etc.). That's how I determined which tensioner I have. So 2012 A4s are not safe, at least from the data point I have. If one of you can point me in the direction for a build date, that would help fill in some more gaps here.

this shit happened to me....

i was in a parking lot with one of my friends and he said:

"kick it, KICK IT"

so i went from 0 to about 80 and when i hit the brakes, the engine shut down and i couldnt turn it back on. Dealer towed vehicle back to their service department and after about 2 days of their inspection as to why that happened they said they were rebuilding my engine at no cost to me. This was maybe december of 2012 and since then i have spent close to 11 grand on repairs out of my pocket.

Right now car runs great after rebuilding tranny and dropping in a new turbo, but am i worried that this tensioner shit rears its ugly head again? fuck yes....

Considering jumping over to lexus.....but also want that 400 hp ttrs thats coming stateside next year. If you actually read the reviews on brand reliability, audi is on top as of last year. Heres hoping that this keeps up, because i definitely want that '17 ttrs

[nycaudi]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160223/RETAIL/160229960/audi-supplants-lexus-in-consumer-reports-2016-report-card-on

[JD23]

Audi was ranked third in reliability, but first overall when considering both road test scores and reliability. Frankly, I think CR will be proven wrong and Audi will drop in reliability in a few years. It is inconceivable to me that the supposed third most reliable brand could have produced the B8 2.0T only 4-5 years ago, which makes me think CR is using a limited data set to make this determination. Also, the need to cut costs in the wake of the diesel scandal will increase the temptation to cut corners.

[JD23]

-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)


The build date for mine is shown on a sticker located below the driver side door. Open the door and look down and you should see it.

[awdconnor]

i hate threads like this... makes me scared to own this car :/

[nycaudi]

Audi was ranked third in reliability, but first overall when considering both road test scores and reliability. Frankly, I think CR will be proven wrong and Audi will drop in reliability in a few years. It is inconceivable to me that the supposed third most reliable brand could have produced the B8 2.0T only 4-5 years ago, which makes me think CR is using a limited data set to make this determination. Also, the need to cut costs in the wake of the diesel scandal will increase the temptation to cut corners.

you do realize the v.a.g conglomerate makes tons of money from other brands....numerous supercars included? i doubt that they will regress. it should keep them on their toes if anything

[JD23]

you do realize the v.a.g conglomerate makes tons of money from other brands....numerous supercars included? i doubt that they will regress. it should keep them on their toes if anything

Audi is VW's most profitable brand by far, with Porsche a distant second. Bentley, Lambo, and Bugatti combined are inconsequential to VAG's overall profitability.

Take a look at VAG's financial statements before dismissing the effect of Dieselgate; the cost of Dieselgate in the US is estimated at $18 billion - larger than a normal year's operating income. A minimum of 1.5 years of profit is erased by this scandal and the company's market cap dropped by 25%. Matthias Muller has announced that VAG is aggressively reducing costs and canceling projects not considered critical.

[nycaudi]

Audi is VW's most profitable brand by far, with Porsche a distant second. Bentley, Lambo, and Bugatti combined are inconsequential to VAG's overall profitability.

Take a look at VAG's financial statements before dismissing the effect of Dieselgate; the cost of Dieselgate in the US is estimated at $18 billion - larger than a normal year's operating income. A minimum of 1.5 years of profit is erased by this scandal and the company's market cap dropped by 25%. Matthias Muller has announced that VAG is aggressively reducing costs and canceling projects not considered critical.

i see vags blackeye as a temporary setback. Their Mxx platform could bring them back into neutral financial territory in less than 5 years, as it absorbs the massive payout that its currently being subjected to by reducing manufacturing costs on many fronts. the paycuts and frozen bonuses will also aid them to bounce back. In the long run i feel this setback could make them uphold a transparent standpoint since they will be under the gun as far as their practices go. this can only benefit the consumer ....and improve their standing in 3 to 5 years

[Poodini]

i see vags blackeye as a temporary setback. Their Mxx platform could bring them back into neutral financial territory in less than 5 years, as it absorbs the massive payout that its currently being subjected to by reducing manufacturing costs on many fronts. the paycuts and frozen bonuses will also aid them to bounce back. In the long run i feel this setback could make them uphold a transparent standpoint since they will be under the gun as far as their practices go. this can only benefit the consumer ....and improve their standing in 3 to 5 years

PREACH!

Having personally gone through a total of 3 turbo replacements since I bought the car in 2009 (2 of the 3 covered by warranty, 3rd pled my case to AoNA for goodwill repair), and not to mention reading all the horror stories of fellow AZ'ers with their oil consumption issues, I'm with you on this one.


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[Poodini]

FINALLY got the TC/Tensioner kit installed! Of course, not without hitting a snag right out of the gate, of course..[emoji849]

My mechanic ([email protected]) rang me up within an hour of them starting. "Hey, did you kit include the gaskets/seals assoc with this job? There's caked on oil all over the front of the engine. Would be wise to replace them now. I can have parts arrive tomorrow/Monday the latest." [emoji51] since it's my DD, I had to act fast! Fortunately my local Audi dealership about 10 mins away from office had everything needed AND came out to $33 out the door! Bonus, since Jon had an account with them, their courier drove it to the shop within an hour![emoji28]
The rest was straightforward enough and got the car back, same day w time to spare!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/072ba2528139177a0b9e7d88dcfd15d3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/af506e077680c007d00bb91b77892d68.jpg

So, I asked if they felt the orig parts were pretty worn after 110k+ on it. They examined the parts and thought it actually held up pretty well! Couldn't tell if chains had stretched but, in any event, I'm glad I took care of this knowing I'll have peace of mind!

Shout outs to Jon, Victoria, and crew @ Trackspec Motors! Jon's background is primarily Lotus and BMW CERT trained but works on our rigs w equal aplomb. The shop is meticulous, state of the art equipment, and non-stuffy/non-machismo attitude is a breath of fresh air! So, for all you Bay Area heads looking for an 034 Motorsports backup/alternative, hit them up @ trackspecauto.com
510) 403-1161

Also shouts out to Kdaffy, Blbroo, and others here who've contributed to helping me navigate this!

[emoji111]🏼️


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[Poodini]

Almost forgot!

Thanks also to Jeff @ Parts2Audi.com for providing the kit! All OE parts, including the tensioner with IT stamp indicating made in Italy. So now she's got a little Lambo in her! Lol

Take away from the repair though was DEFINITELY GET ALL THE GASKETS & SEALS necessary for the job!

eBay link to the kit:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/301827892355

Jeff will take care of you and cost came out to $400 drop-shipped NEXT DAY!


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[Allowencer]

I'll add to this mix.

I called a very reputable shop in my area called C's Autohaus, that everyone I know that owns a VAG/BMW/Mercedes car takes their cars to, and asked them about replacing my timing chain. They told me that as long as the tensioner has been replaced with the updated one (mine was when the oil consumption service was done and pistons/bearings were replaced as well as chain guides,) that they do not feel the chain needs replaced at all. They have several of these cars in the 160k+ miles range that they regularly service, and they said they've never needed to replace a chain on any of these motors as long as the tensioner is updated.

They could have easily told me to bring it in and take my money, but they went as far to say that they felt I'd be wasting my money if I did it, but they'd happily do it if I insisted on having it done.

It seems you will always find differing opinions lol. Not sharing to purposely add to confusion... just throwing this in to offer another perspective.

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This is true to an extent. However, if you are upwards in mileage, I'd say anywhere from 90-100k+, do yourself the favor and replace EVERYTHING in there. Guides, chain, you name it. Do the balance shaft chain circuit as well. Look at the pics I posted, it stretches and that causes more slack and strain on the whole motor. Perfect example, sorry blbroo, but look at his engine, he replaced only the tensioner. Look how far out the tensioner's piston has to extend to provide proper tension on the circuit. Once it hits it's limit, there's no more capacity to provide tension. That means the chain will forgo added stress and will break. If you have modified the driveline in any fashion - don't cut corners and swap the chain. You own an Audi, don't do maintenance on it like you would a beater.

In addition, there is a newer chain; it has been revised. It has been proven to wear / stretch less.


2009 with 60k miles. No start, tried twice. Pulled code and got P0016. Happened just after I failed the stage 2 oil consumption test. Car is TD1 and they are refusing to cover it.

Took it to independent shop, they pulled the upper cover off and this is what they saw:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/58d3fe28ac6c780c1246512e5d33cb5c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/db96ee7838636b70dc625d412046d82e.jpg

As you can see, the chain is actually sitting on top of the teeth.

Shoo will replace the parts and re-time. Then they'll perform a leak down test to see if any of the valves were damaged before pulling the head. Wish me luck...


^^^^^ [o_o]

Ouch. They should try to safely identify how far off timing occurred. If you are 1-2 teeth off, you will more than likely be OK. Good luck man.

That is scary! Ok, guys. I am at 46k miles and no tune. Can i change out the tensioner and leave the belt? Chain shouldn't stretch unless it is put unload higher then normal loads right?
Actually, what is causing the chain to stretch? If the tensioner gets loose over time, shouldn't relieve stress on the chain?
At 46k, you're good to just swap the tensioner.

The chain will naturally stretch over time. Modifying the driveline only increases the impact on the chain and the additional strain which will cause it to further stretch. As I mentioned previously, the newer chain is a revised one which will stretch a lot less.


You can change out the tensioner and leave the chain and not replace it. My recommendation is if you're in there already you may as well replace the chain too while also inspecting the guides. If you decide to only swap out the tensioner you'd still be fine for many more miles, I just prefer to do preventative maintenance like that if I'm already in the middle of a job anyway.

The chains will stretch over time even with the natural, designed stress of the system. In my case, I had 130k miles when I swapped everything and the "stretch" on my chain was fairly minimal when comparing it to the new one I put on.

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I mostly agree with what skywalker said; however, I still stand by replacing all of the components in the circuit, especially if you intend on keeping the car. I would concur that by just replacing the tensioner you will get more miles out of the chain, but how much? 20k, 50k? 75k? Under what type of load? Those are all factors / variables I'd rather not dance with and just do the job right the first time.

There was significant stretch on the chain when I did mine. Keep in mind, any stretch beyond 5mm is considered significant'. You can also measure this at the top once the chain is installed. I show how to measure that in my build thread.


I spoke with my dealership in Toronto yesterday about this. First off, they told me that the whole front end needs to be removed for them to inspect....... after I told him that they could look through the inspection hole, they said they'd call me back...then called and restated the front end needs to be taken apart. Might need to look into changing dealerships...

An they quoted me $1500 to do the job.

I woulda LOL'd in their face. That's a dealership that only does things by the book and nothing else. Rookies.

[Allowencer]

All three dealers that I talked to acted like I was nuts for thinking the part needed swapped out. All suggested that some other issue would cause the failure and there would be plenty of warning signs. "we will do it, but you are spending money for no benefit" type answer.

I changed the tensioner myself this past weekend.

Another dealership I woulda laughed at and showed them the finer details in all of this. Including the class action lawsuit.


OK so who on the board is willing to fly/drive to NJ and help me do this? The work doesn't bother me at all, setting the timing is what scares me. I have all the tools except for the "special" ones... Name a price because $1200-1400 for "maintenance" is not normal on a "lifetime" part in my opinion. Audi needs to fuck themselves.
I might [:)] lol. I doubt my wife will let me know as our daughter is now 9 days old. Maybe in a month or so if you can wait that long.

I've also talked guys through it over SMS, phone, etc. I helped blbroo a bit too via text, but he just swapped the tensioner. That's a piece of cake alone. You will need the special tools I have mentioned many times for sure.


Since I just replaced the tensioner, there was no timing issue to worry about. The crank pulley can only go back on in one orientation. Allowencer scolded me for not replacing the chains, but I had numerous aftermarket audi shops say it wasn't necessary if the tensioner hadn't failed yet.
Why didn't you change out the chain again?? [evilsmile] LOL You shoulda...
Did you reveal to those shops your mods, the K04 you want to get and mileage you're at as well? Just sayin.



Following up with what blbroo said, you don't necessarily have to change the chain therefore you won't have to re-time everything. Like I said in a previous post, chains in any motor will "stretch" over time, however that stretch is very minimal so you'd probably be fine only changing the tensioner. The difference between the new chain and old chain for me after 130k miles and the old one going through a failure was very small.

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I already commented on this; I'll echo again, I highly recommend anyone doing this to replace it all. It's not worth cutting corners for a few hundred dollars in the long run.


How were you guides or did you not check for scoring/wear? I feel like if I'm going to go through all the work of opening up the front of the motor i might as well change every thing in there to latest and greatest parts.
Mine were worn decently and a few had gouges taken out of them from the slack in the chain.
Yes, your last sentence is the mindset you need to have. Spoken properly.

[Allowencer]

I checked all my guides and ended up not replacing them. Mine were still in very good shape and there was very very little wear. I know others have seen pretty significant wear so it all depends I guess.

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Did you actually measure them with a caliper? Mine were worn; at least 0.08" on majority of the guides. Did you not have a lot of miles? That would be the only saving grace.


I haven't heard that kind of noise yet, and what do you think the smell of fuel could be coming from? Could it just be my injectors? That wouldn't explain the ticking though
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Agreed; injectors.


After reading the first link I think it might be my injector seal because one of them popped off when I was doing some carbon cleaning. I'm just wondering why I'm just now starting to smell it, when procedure was done on June 23rd.

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Yep, that will do it. You'll need the proper tool to install new Teflon seals on your injectors.


Looks like this thread has started some serious paranoia..myself included. I've been looking at different kits/tensioners and will be doing this in a month or so. As others have stated, while youre in there you might as well get the chain done. My question is, how far do you really need to take it.

Europaparts has this kit: https://www.europaparts.com/timing-chain-kit-2-0t-tsi-af.html

ECS has this kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Timing/ES2592683/

@poodini referred me to this kit on ebay as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301827892355

For preventative maintenance this seems like overkill to me..? From what I understand, IF the tensioner has stopped doing its job, then the chain would stretch so those two should be replaced. I don't see how the guides could be damaged from this? And only one of the two tensioners needs to be changed?

Obviously when I open it up and inspect it I'll be able to check out the damage if any, but I'd rather have the parts I need, and am trying to determine which ones aren't necessary (ie. replacing valves if there wasn't a failure)
When the tensioner goes bad, timing fails. It's not when the tensioner goes bad, the chain starts/begins to stretch. The tensioner has a piston, which only has a certain amount of throw to it. Once maximized, it can no longer provide proper tension on the timing circuit. Add in a motor that has been modified and is now producing more torque (that's really the key, not HP so much), it's only going to accelerate wear further.

Guides wear as the chain rides 'right' on them and oil in the front timing area is only delivered by 'splash'. Nothing directly delivers oil to the chains. That being the case, there will be friction and wear; especially over time.


Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,
You are now running the latest tensioner and chain. You should be good to go for a long time now and should be able to sleep well at night. I commend you for doing this while you had the OC issue resolved. Also glad to hear your dealership did not charge you labor as they have to re-establish timing anyways when re-assembling the motor.

[Allowencer]

It sounds like they simply replaced the parts that were excessively worn or known to be problematic, i.e. your tensioner.

I can't speak to whether your dealership addressed this issue properly vs doing the minimum required. It would be helpful to know, for example, of those cars whose tensioners crapped out, were the other components like the guides and rails also worn down/in play. Speaking as a layman with no mechanical background, I would think a continually moving system like the timing chains should warrant replacing the complimentary parts that work with said system.
I was considering just doing the tensioner only kit. We already know that it's the principle culprit and subsequently has been updated. That said, if you're nearing/at the 90k mark and are planning to hang onto your B8 for at least another 25-50k, it makes sense to just do the full kit. A couple hundred extra is a small amount to pay for peace of mind and greatly increases not only the all around performance of your car, but it greatly reduces the potential for it going south. This especially holds true if you're running an ECU program or other mods to push our engines outside of factory settings.

Just my 2 centavos.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160713/de3feb35610d8b9c9f56f81621cdad6a.jpg

I'm having my kit installed Thursday. Will report back after work is completed.
Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk
Spoken well and I'm glad you ponied up and are replacing all of the components in the circuit.


These kits are extensive, but a lot of whats included in them are necessary to do the job even if you're only changing the timing chain tensioner and chain (seals/gaskets etc should all be changed).

To alleviate some of the confusion, chains can stretch even if the tensioner does not fail. This is one of the reasons why tensioners such as this have the capability to "adjust" or "extend" and are not completely static. The guides that the chain rides on can get worn out over time, this will be engine dependent as some other folks saw significant wear with their guides and some have not (i did not see much wear) so you may or may not have to replace them.

As for having to only replace the one tensioner, in short it's because the one we are changing is the only one that fails. There are three tensioners, two for the timing chain and one for the chain from the crank to oil pump. The second timing chain tensioner is essentially a large static bolt, it does not move or adjust and there really isn't any failure mode. The third tensioner is a mechanical spring assembly, again there really isn't a failure mode.

I did not buy a kit when I swapped mine out, what I ended up buying was the timing chain, chain tensioner, and new seals/gaskets which for me was cheaper than buying the whole kit.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I need to correct you on some areas here. There are 3 tensioners, yes; however, only 1 for the cam timing circuit. There's one for the oil pump circuit and one for the balance shaft circuit. The balance shaft circuit one is static; the oil pump one operates off of a metal spring. The oil pump chain barely stretches as it has little to no tension on it - it's only driving an oil pump.
I swapped my balance shaft chain and that stretched a few mm; I think 4mm IIRC. That's 'OK', but I went ahead and did it anyways.


I replaced the gasket for the upper timing cover (black plastic cover) and the circular gasket for the sensor that goes through that cover. Also you will need some gasket sealant for the lower timing cover (black metal cover). Be careful taking the lower metal cover off, I know some on here have managed to crack or break the flange meaning you'll need to buy a new one. If you take your time and use a flat head screwdriver to slowly work your way around the cover to separate it from the block you should be fine.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
You should have replaced more than just those parts. Others you should have replaced:
- Crank bolt with o-ring (this is a TTY bolt)
- All lower timing cover bolts (all are TTY bolts)
- Exhaust cam bolt and spacer (this is a TTY bolt)
- O-ring inside the cam bridge / cam adjustment assembly where the INA / intake valve bolts in

With the front cover, check the oil drainage gutter; ensure there wasn't any contact between the chain and cover. This happens when there is extra slack on the chain. Also, the newer timing cover has been revised to help with oil drainage (a different gutter system).


Update on my situation. They're covering the stage 2 work and new chain/tensioner, but any extra parts and labor are my responsibility. I approved an inspection of the head (4-5 hrs) and got news back today that valves were bent and the head is damaged. They said a new one is like $4600, but they will look into finding a used one for me.
Ouch. I know a brand new, OEM head is like $1,500 but that's without any valvetrain (valves, valvesprings, keepers, retainers). Might want to look at Integrated Engineering's option if you want to go that extra mile! [:)]


Ok thanks! I saw like 10 different gaskets on that website and didnt think id need to replace half of them but that helps alot! I read somewhere (or saw a vid) that said you should replace the cover so was going to do that. But it makes sense if youre careful and dont bend it you shouldnt have problems.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
You don't have to replace the lower timing inspection cover if there isn't any damage; either by removal of if that gutter has had contact made to it. If you want the latest revision cover too, which helps with oil drainage, then you would want to elect to get one.

[Allowencer]

Checked my tensioner today. No pictures for you guys, because it's a hard spot to get into. But just some information:

-MY 2012
-In service date of 3/2012
-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)
-Tensioner model N or AB
--It has that black ring with the two metal lips around it (on the right)

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg

It's impossible to see any text from the small window in the timing cover. All you can really tell is the geometry and the material (color, metal vs. plastic, etc.). That's how I determined which tensioner I have. So 2012 A4s are not safe, at least from the data point I have. If one of you can point me in the direction for a build date, that would help fill in some more gaps here.


FINALLY got the TC/Tensioner kit installed! Of course, not without hitting a snag right out of the gate, of course..[emoji849]

My mechanic ([email protected]) rang me up within an hour of them starting. "Hey, did you kit include the gaskets/seals assoc with this job? There's caked on oil all over the front of the engine. Would be wise to replace them now. I can have parts arrive tomorrow/Monday the latest." [emoji51] since it's my DD, I had to act fast! Fortunately my local Audi dealership about 10 mins away from office had everything needed AND came out to $33 out the door! Bonus, since Jon had an account with them, their courier drove it to the shop within an hour![emoji28]
The rest was straightforward enough and got the car back, same day w time to spare!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/072ba2528139177a0b9e7d88dcfd15d3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/af506e077680c007d00bb91b77892d68.jpg

So, I asked if they felt the orig parts were pretty worn after 110k+ on it. They examined the parts and thought it actually held up pretty well! Couldn't tell if chains had stretched but, in any event, I'm glad I took care of this knowing I'll have peace of mind!

Shout outs to Jon, Victoria, and crew @ Trackspec Motors! Jon's background is primarily Lotus and BMW CERT trained but works on our rigs w equal aplomb. The shop is meticulous, state of the art equipment, and non-stuffy/non-machismo attitude is a breath of fresh air! So, for all you Bay Area heads looking for an 034 Motorsports backup/alternative, hit them up @ trackspecauto.com
510) 403-1161

Also shouts out to Kdaffy, Blbroo, and others here who've contributed to helping me navigate this!

[emoji111]🏼️


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk

I gotta call out, that shop DID NOT place timing back on per the timing marks. You can see it for yourself on the exhaust cam. Goes to show you the shop would rather take speed over complete quality.

Not saying they did it wrong as they paint marker'd their own markings; I just hate seeing things half-assed / shortcut through.

In addition, their response to your ask on how the other components faired - they didn't 'actually' check by measuring, they eye balled it I'm sure.

[Allowencer]

To keep your timing chain or replace with new?

I'm getting tired of the opinions being posted and others calling 'shops' for further obscure opinions if it's ok to keep your cam timing chain or replace it with a new one. Other than these facts to replace with a new one:
- Won't be stretched
- New design which can take more abuse

No one has any clout around providing direction to it. Here are your facts and source of truth:

Measure the timing span across the sprockets (Spec is 124mm-127mm):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7761/26856399651_c17578825c_k.jpg

Then measure from the outside center bar of the cam bridge to intake timing mark (Spec is 61-64mm):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7008/26923693295_395caf95d9_k.jpg


If you fall within spec, you're fine. If you're leaning towards the outer edge of that measurement - your call your car.

/end of discussion on the cam timing chain

[ddun]

Have MY 09 with 70k miles and had this done at an independent shop, mainly went in for front main seal change and reseal valve cover (never did stage 1 oil consumption, and had valve cover leak in cylinder 3). Had them change out tensioner and serpentine belt while they were in there.

I'm pretty much maxed out on mods and I am way passed warranty. So I decided to do this for peace of mind, and possibly preventing myself from a future blown engine.

Parts, labor, and tax initially was $928 but decided to do valve cover reseal while they had access to the timing components, ended up with $1300 to include all of the above.

Shops says they didn't see any chain stretch, and haven't seen any chain stretch on all the cars they've done (mainly transverse 2.0t). But again most of their customers are probably low mileage and doing it proactively to prevent any catastrophic failures.

Up until this point I have done all the work and maintenance on this car, just didn't have the time and patience this time around. Some will say it is an expensive job for something we shouldn't have to do, but the price was worth the peace of mind especially since I like to drive the shit out of this k04 100oct on w/m

[Poodini]

To keep your timing chain or replace with new?

I'm getting tired of the opinions being posted and others calling 'shops' for further obscure opinions if it's ok to keep your cam timing chain or replace it with a new one. Other than these facts to replace with a new one:
- Won't be stretched
- New design which can take more abuse

No one has any clout around providing direction to it. Here are your facts and source of truth:

If you fall within spec, you're fine. If you're leaning towards the outer edge of that measurement - your call your car.

/end of discussion on the cam timing chain

**Allowencer,

I realized I posted 'before' pics by mistake. I have all the orig used parts since they packed it up and saved it for me.
I have zero reason to suspect they did me dirty here. Unlike some of you who are far more adept mechanically than I, the mere thought of me trying to remove the entire front end to get to the timing assembly is laughable! Plus, I simply don't have the time! 5 year old twins with one on the Autism Spectrum all but negates any chance I have of noodling around in the garage. Unless of course I decided to start a meth habit so I can work while everyone's asleep..[emoji51][emoji99]

After having gone through the whole ordeal of having to replace my turbo FOR THE 3rd TIME in 6 years this past December has made me a lot more wary. The fact that I had to plead my case with AoNA because I was past their 70k limitation for a known waste gate issue they still won't admit should have been a recall item. Fortunately they agreed on a 'goodwill fix' (the turbo was free/I had to pay for labor to install).
That said combined with reading all the horror stories of older version tensioners failing, I decided to do the kit and I'm glad I did. Was it expensive, yes. Could I have continued driving on the og parts, pretty good likelihood. How long before problems arise...NO ONE CAN PREDICT. Therefore, since I plan to hang onto it a few more years, this is an investment and gives me some peace of mind.
Well worth it imho.


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk

[richberry01]

As many of you, I'm becoming quite paranoid with this whole ordeal. I have a 2011 with almost 70K and the last thing I want to consider is replacing my engine due to the tensioner failure. Less anxiety producing, yet anxiety producing none the less is forking out $1000 and having downtime before it's needed. Are there any warning signs prior to the CEL? I have the rattling on cold start in the morning just like in this thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/293617-Horrible-noise-on-cold-start-up?highlight=rattling+startup

Anyone experience this prior to the tensioner failing?

[Allowencer]

Checked my tensioner today. No pictures for you guys, because it's a hard spot to get into. But just some information:

-MY 2012
-In service date of 3/2012
-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)
-Tensioner model N or AB
--It has that black ring with the two metal lips around it (on the right)

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg

It's impossible to see any text from the small window in the timing cover. All you can really tell is the geometry and the material (color, metal vs. plastic, etc.). That's how I determined which tensioner I have. So 2012 A4s are not safe, at least from the data point I have. If one of you can point me in the direction for a build date, that would help fill in some more gaps here.


FINALLY got the TC/Tensioner kit installed! Of course, not without hitting a snag right out of the gate, of course..[emoji849]

My mechanic ([email protected]) rang me up within an hour of them starting. "Hey, did you kit include the gaskets/seals assoc with this job? There's caked on oil all over the front of the engine. Would be wise to replace them now. I can have parts arrive tomorrow/Monday the latest." [emoji51] since it's my DD, I had to act fast! Fortunately my local Audi dealership about 10 mins away from office had everything needed AND came out to $33 out the door! Bonus, since Jon had an account with them, their courier drove it to the shop within an hour![emoji28]
The rest was straightforward enough and got the car back, same day w time to spare!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/072ba2528139177a0b9e7d88dcfd15d3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/af506e077680c007d00bb91b77892d68.jpg

So, I asked if they felt the orig parts were pretty worn after 110k+ on it. They examined the parts and thought it actually held up pretty well! Couldn't tell if chains had stretched but, in any event, I'm glad I took care of this knowing I'll have peace of mind!

Shout outs to Jon, Victoria, and crew @ Trackspec Motors! Jon's background is primarily Lotus and BMW CERT trained but works on our rigs w equal aplomb. The shop is meticulous, state of the art equipment, and non-stuffy/non-machismo attitude is a breath of fresh air! So, for all you Bay Area heads looking for an 034 Motorsports backup/alternative, hit them up @ trackspecauto.com
510) 403-1161

Also shouts out to Kdaffy, Blbroo, and others here who've contributed to helping me navigate this!

[emoji111]🏼️


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk


**Allowencer,

I realized I posted 'before' pics by mistake. I have all the orig used parts since they packed it up and saved it for me.
I have zero reason to suspect they did me dirty here. Unlike some of you who are far more adept mechanically than I, the mere thought of me trying to remove the entire front end to get to the timing assembly is laughable! Plus, I simply don't have the time! 5 year old twins with one on the Autism Spectrum all but negates any chance I have of noodling around in the garage. Unless of course I decided to start a meth habit so I can work while everyone's asleep..[emoji51][emoji99]

After having gone through the whole ordeal of having to replace my turbo FOR THE 3rd TIME in 6 years this past December has made me a lot more wary. The fact that I had to plead my case with AoNA because I was past their 70k limitation for a known waste gate issue they still won't admit should have been a recall item. Fortunately they agreed on a 'goodwill fix' (the turbo was free/I had to pay for labor to install).
That said combined with reading all the horror stories of older version tensioners failing, I decided to do the kit and I'm glad I did. Was it expensive, yes. Could I have continued driving on the og parts, pretty good likelihood. How long before problems arise...NO ONE CAN PREDICT. Therefore, since I plan to hang onto it a few more years, this is an investment and gives me some peace of mind.
Well worth it imho.


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk

Ah, that's 100x better to know that. I would edit your post and place a disclaimer on that pic so no one thinks that's the 'finished' look. I would ask them if they final measured the timing chain TDC marks. It's the pics I posted earlier. They 'should' have done that at the very least. I hear ya on the kids, my wife and I just had our first, a girl, 2 Wed's ago. With work and her, I don't know what sleep is; I know what naps are though [:)]

Since you have the old tensioner, can you do me a favor? Take off that black retaining ring on the tensioner. Keep it orientated with the top facing upward. With the ring off, you will see an oval metal pawl. Remove that pawl, flip it over and take a macro pic of the underside of the pawl and post it here. Just like what blbroo did.

I completely agree with you and you made a very smart decision to replace all of those parts. You summed it up well and I hope others digest what you said and absorb some of that wisdom.

- - - Updated - - -


Checked my tensioner today. No pictures for you guys, because it's a hard spot to get into. But just some information:

-MY 2012
-In service date of 3/2012
-No information on the build date (where can I find this?)
-Tensioner model N or AB
--It has that black ring with the two metal lips around it (on the right)

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7401/27989220605_73c5d6c8a2_o.jpg

It's impossible to see any text from the small window in the timing cover. All you can really tell is the geometry and the material (color, metal vs. plastic, etc.). That's how I determined which tensioner I have. So 2012 A4s are not safe, at least from the data point I have. If one of you can point me in the direction for a build date, that would help fill in some more gaps here.


FINALLY got the TC/Tensioner kit installed! Of course, not without hitting a snag right out of the gate, of course..[emoji849]

My mechanic ([email protected]) rang me up within an hour of them starting. "Hey, did you kit include the gaskets/seals assoc with this job? There's caked on oil all over the front of the engine. Would be wise to replace them now. I can have parts arrive tomorrow/Monday the latest." [emoji51] since it's my DD, I had to act fast! Fortunately my local Audi dealership about 10 mins away from office had everything needed AND came out to $33 out the door! Bonus, since Jon had an account with them, their courier drove it to the shop within an hour![emoji28]
The rest was straightforward enough and got the car back, same day w time to spare!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/072ba2528139177a0b9e7d88dcfd15d3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160717/af506e077680c007d00bb91b77892d68.jpg

So, I asked if they felt the orig parts were pretty worn after 110k+ on it. They examined the parts and thought it actually held up pretty well! Couldn't tell if chains had stretched but, in any event, I'm glad I took care of this knowing I'll have peace of mind!

Shout outs to Jon, Victoria, and crew @ Trackspec Motors! Jon's background is primarily Lotus and BMW CERT trained but works on our rigs w equal aplomb. The shop is meticulous, state of the art equipment, and non-stuffy/non-machismo attitude is a breath of fresh air! So, for all you Bay Area heads looking for an 034 Motorsports backup/alternative, hit them up @ trackspecauto.com
510) 403-1161

Also shouts out to Kdaffy, Blbroo, and others here who've contributed to helping me navigate this!

[emoji111]🏼️


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk


As many of you, I'm becoming quite paranoid with this whole ordeal. I have a 2011 with almost 70K and the last thing I want to consider is replacing my engine due to the tensioner failure. Less anxiety producing, yet anxiety producing none the less is forking out $1000 and having downtime before it's needed. Are there any warning signs prior to the CEL? I have the rattling on cold start in the morning just like in this thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/293617-Horrible-noise-on-cold-start-up?highlight=rattling+startup

Anyone experience this prior to the tensioner failing?

I had zero signs before mine went. The tensioner will fail to maintain tension on an ignition start - that's the failure.

[Poodini]

Ah, that's 100x better to know that. I would edit your post and place a disclaimer on that pic so no one thinks that's the 'finished' look. I would ask them if they final measured the timing chain TDC marks. It's the pics I posted earlier. They 'should' have done that at the very least. I hear ya on the kids, my wife and I just had our first, a girl, 2 Wed's ago. With work and her, I don't know what sleep is; I know what naps are though [:)]

Since you have the old tensioner, can you do me a favor? Take off that black retaining ring on the tensioner. Keep it orientated with the top facing upward. With the ring off, you will see an oval metal pawl. Remove that pawl, flip it over and take a macro pic of the underside of the pawl and post it here. Just like what blbroo did.

I completely agree with you and you made a very smart decision to replace all of those parts. You summed it up well and I hope others digest what you said and absorb some of that wisdom.

- - - Updated - - -







I had zero signs before mine went. The tensioner will fail to maintain tension on an ignition start - that's the failure.

I don't know if I'd call it wisdom so much as reading on forums just as these and gaining knowledge through members like yourself, Kdaffy, Blbroo, Eurythmics, Smellie, et.al.m
Since I've had a 'renaissance' and renewed appreciation for the car over the last year+, AZ has been, hands down, my go-to resource!

I'll get the pics you requested up when I get a sec. Congrats as well on the new arrival! [emoji1413] As I'm sure you've already ascertained, YOUR LIFE AS YOU KNOW IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!

[emoji111]🏼️


Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk

[DPD314]

Im at 85k miles - scheduled my car to get the tensioner replaced next week. I need that piece of mind that this car is gonna last me a bit longer.

[Captain Amazing]

How much is it going to cost you?

[Anthony1491]

Just a heads up to anyone who also has the oil consumption issue, I just got mine fixed and they replaced the tensioner and timing chain free of charge. My SA said that normally they can't fix it on it's own for free, but when they take everything apart to fix the oil consumption issue they can say they found additional damage to the tensioner & chain and get it fixed that way. I'm in canada as well so it might be different in the states

[The Infiltrator]

Just a heads up to anyone who also has the oil consumption issue, I just got mine fixed and they replaced the tensioner and timing chain free of charge. My SA said that normally they can't fix it on it's own for free, but when they take everything apart to fix the oil consumption issue they can say they found additional damage to the tensioner & chain and get it fixed that way. I'm in canada as well so it might be different in the states

lol, I will be asking about that when I go back next weekend. Glad it worked out for you man! [>_<]

[Marko S]

Just a heads up to anyone who also has the oil consumption issue, I just got mine fixed and they replaced the tensioner and timing chain free of charge. My SA said that normally they can't fix it on it's own for free, but when they take everything apart to fix the oil consumption issue they can say they found additional damage to the tensioner & chain and get it fixed that way. I'm in canada as well so it might be different in the states
Which dealership did you go to? Im also in Toronto and usually go to Oakville but havent been too happy with them.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[Anthony1491]

Which dealership did you go to? Im also in Toronto and usually go to Oakville but haven't been too happy with them.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Pfaff Audi in Vaughan, these guys are great. As long as you have full service history & fail the oil consumption test they'll take care of you

[Marko S]

Pfaff Audi in Vaughan, these guys are great. As long as you have full service history & fail the oil consumption test they'll take care of you
Man ive honestly only heard great things about them. Especially that they are mod friendly. Do they give loaners?

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[Anthony1491]

Man ive honestly only heard great things about them. Especially that they are mod friendly. Do they give loaners?

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Yep, its 15 bucks to transfer your insurance to the rental and that's all you have to pay. They recently switched rental companies too, the last two times I went in I got a 2017 a4 with 1000km on it and then for the oil consumption thing they gave me a 2016 a3.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[Marko S]

Yep, its 15 bucks to transfer your insurance to the rental and that's all you have to pay. They recently switched rental companies too, the last two times I went in I got a 2017 a4 with 1000km on it and then for the oil consumption thing they gave me a 2016 a3.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
Damn. Thanks im definitely switching over to them!

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[hecren1]

Did anyone replace the cam chain tensioner as well? The dealership quoted me 2500-2700 for the job, but it includes both chains, both tensioners and all the guides and parts they need


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A4x]

Did anyone replace the cam chain tensioner as well? The dealership quoted me 2500-2700 for the job, but it includes both chains, both tensioners and all the guides and parts they need


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[poop] Did yours fail? That's A LOT of money.

[nycaudi]

lol, the stealerships price for providing you coffee and a stuck up attitude is crazy

parts are 400 labor about 600. do your accessory belt and pulley while youre in that vecinity as well

[hecren1]

No it hasn't failed yet. Another dealership quoted me $1500 but they're not doing the cam tensioner but he did tell me that there's a warranty extension on the cam tensioner to 120k miles but it has to fail for them to fix it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Poodini]

[QUOTE=Allowencer;11761833]
Since you have the old tensioner, can you do me a favor? Take off that black retaining ring on the tensioner. Keep it orientated with the top facing upward. With the ring off, you will see an oval metal pawl. Remove that pawl, flip it over and take a macro pic of the underside of the pawl and post it here. Just like what blbroo did.

I completely agree with you and you made a very smart decision to replace all of those parts. You summed it up well and I hope others digest what you said and absorb some of that wisdom.

Allowencer!

First off, congrats again on the newest member of your family!

Can you repost that pic of Blbroo's tensioner so I can try and duplicate/upload here for comparison.

Also, the car's been running just fine since the job btw..



Sent from my iPhone usingTapatalk

[weagle1856]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

What mileage was your car when you had it done?

[hockeysc23]

Sorry for the delay (been a lot of family and job issues) but I wanted to update one from one of my posts on the 1st thread. I first took the Audi to a very reputable 3rd party that indicated the tensioner failed and I needed a new engine. I had the car towed to Audi of Arlington. They did their diagnostic work and despite being a day late with every update (e.g., I'll call you Monday, and then Tuesday I'd have to call them), they indicated it was just the tensioner and no engine damage.

They replaced with a new chain, T Rail, K Tensioner, AP Rail, and Q Rail. With labor including the original diagnostic, I was out for $2.4k. There were no warning signs at all for the car, the car was not tuned, and was properly maintained. I'll now be calling Audi of America to see what I can do to have them cover the bill due to a faulty part.

[joker4230]

Can anyone tell me if the noise my car is making is in fact the timing chain? my mechanic had previously replaced the timing chain and then the noise didn't stop so i brought it back in to him a few months later and he also found that the oil pickup was plugged cleaned that out and yet it is continuing to make this rattling noise. He is now saying it is both my oil pump and timing chain that needs to be replaced. Can someone please help me diagnose this nightmare!!!?
https://youtu.be/zd8Y3ybznQE

- - - Updated - - -

[A4x]

Can anyone tell me if the noise my car is making is in fact the timing chain? my mechanic had previously replaced the timing chain and then the noise didn't stop so i brought it back in to him a few months later and he also found that the oil pickup was plugged cleaned that out and yet it is continuing to make this rattling noise. He is now saying it is both my oil pump and timing chain that needs to be replaced. Can someone please help me diagnose this nightmare!!!?
https://youtu.be/zd8Y3ybznQE

- - - Updated - - -

Oh that does not sound good. I am just taking a shot in the dark here, but what about the fuel pump tappet? That is kind of the area of the engine you are in. It rides on the rear part of the exhaust camshaft.

[joker4230]

Oh that does not sound good. I am just taking a shot in the dark here, but what about the fuel pump tappet? That is kind of the area of the engine you are in. It rides on the rear part of the exhaust camshaft.
I was thinking more so along the lines of timing chain because of the rattle. I honestly am out of ideas and need some sort of feedback. Why do you say fuel tappet? not saying its wrong just haven't heard that theory until today.
Thanks!

[lettuce]

I was thinking more so along the lines of timing chain because of the rattle. I honestly am out of ideas and need some sort of feedback. Why do you say fuel tappet? not saying its wrong just haven't heard that theory until today.
Thanks!

Is that a B7? You might want to post in the correct board, this is the B8 section and we all have different engines than you so won't be able to be of much help.

That being said, my brother has a B7 and his car started making a very similar, if not even worse noise from the same area last fall. My first thought was the cam follower on the HPFP, so I took that out but it looked perfect. So I popped it back in and he took it to the dealership for diagnosis. Turns out he hadn't changed his oil in like 20k miles and they did that and it went away. I believe the theory was that the chain tensioner in that area is run off oil pressure and something with the old oil was reducing pressure, causing it to not keep the chain taut, leading to the rattling. Or something like that. So your mechanic's theory regarding the oil pump makes sense. If your pickup was clogged then your pump would have been working harder trying to maintain pressure, which could lead to early failure.

[hockeysc23]

Audi of America denied my claim stating not enough people have opened complaints about this issues to make it a recall campaign (or some other fancy term). I obviously objected and the notion that I need to wait for more people to contact them when the part is faulty is ludicrous. I asked to speak to a manager but need to have one call me back. Needless to say if Audi won't rectify this issue that has tarnished the brand for me. It's just not worth it to invest that much in a car that can die despite excellent care.

[ducati]

Sorry to hear that but really it's expected from Audi,deny until you get a flood of failures then do a silent recall.

[JD23]

Just like with the excessive oil consumption, the only thing that will make Audi change its stance is a class-action lawsuit. Without an external stimulus, Audi will always attempt to minimize costs. We all obviously appreciate VAG's products, but all evidence suggests that VAG is a systemically unethical company.

[IHave2Turbos]

Audi of America denied my claim stating not enough people have opened complaints about this issues to make it a recall campaign (or some other fancy term). I obviously objected and the notion that I need to wait for more people to contact them when the part is faulty is ludicrous. I asked to speak to a manager but need to have one call me back. Needless to say if Audi won't rectify this issue that has tarnished the brand for me. It's just not worth it to invest that much in a car that can die despite excellent care.

This is a good semantics situation for them because there have been a good number of VW owners that have also had this failure as the part is shared but they can claim that not that many Audi owners have complained. They KNOW it is bad, they redesigned the part no less than 4 times. It should have been standard procedure to just "do it" when the cars came in for Stage 2 fix, $50 there instead of $1500 or at worst $5000 for the fucking owner. They will settle this lawsuit as well.

Generally a "lifetime" part is not re-designed 4 times in less than 4 years.

Mfg Part #
06K109467K

Previous Revisions
06H109467T
06H109467N
06H109467AB

At the very least they should issue a TSB so that you can bring the car into the dealership for free, have them pop the inspection port cover on the lower timing cover and they can tell you the actual part number that you have installed. A lot of us are second/third owners, the peace of mind would go a long way to calm people down. This is basic PR 101 shit, "control the message" "get out in front of it".

[joker4230]

Is that a B7? You might want to post in the correct board, this is the B8 section and we all have different engines than you so won't be able to be of much help.

That being said, my brother has a B7 and his car started making a very similar, if not even worse noise from the same area last fall. My first thought was the cam follower on the HPFP, so I took that out but it looked perfect. So I popped it back in and he took it to the dealership for diagnosis. Turns out he hadn't changed his oil in like 20k miles and they did that and it went away. I believe the theory was that the chain tensioner in that area is run off oil pressure and something with the old oil was reducing pressure, causing it to not keep the chain taut, leading to the rattling. Or something like that. So your mechanic's theory regarding the oil pump makes sense. If your pickup was clogged then your pump would have been working harder trying to maintain pressure, which could lead to early failure.
Sorry didn't even notice is was in b8 section :l But thank you for your input regardless! That would make sense because i guarantee you the guy who i bought this from rarely changed the oil on it because as soon as i did my first oil change this noise started to occur [>_>]. I'm hoping it is just the oil pump and my chain isn't bad again now that the oil hasn't been reaching up there [headbang] not looking to spend a fricking fortune on it I just wanna drive [mad]

[hockeysc23]

Audi manager just called me and had a horrible demeanor and use of words for a customer service manager. To paraphrase when I asked him about all the problems noted on forums etc he said you cannot believe what you read on the Internet.

I asked him in Audis research did they note how many people called with this issue? "I don't know"

Why did Audi redesign this part 4x? "I don't know"

Did audi test or research online how many people have this failure and is it within acceptable limits? "I don't know"

I said with all due respect what was done to determine if this was an actual issue? " we looked in our database and there were no campaigns or recalls"

I said how does something get in there then? Is it acceptable for a 40k car to have this kind of major repair this young in its life? "I cannot answer that"

He mentioned he would try to look into my questions and call me back. Amazed he would call with No info on the situation. I'm not done with this yet

[kdaffy]

^ This is unreal. I spoke to many dealers locally and their service departments basically all told me the same thing, that the tensioner is a lifetime part and should not need to be replaced if you properly maintain your car. Well, I'm very proactive when it comes to maintenance and have done everything on or ahead of schedule. Since I started this thread, it goes to say that I was very concerned about having a faulty tensioner and the consequences should it go out. My car is a '09 avant just shy of 85k miles.

I got lucky. Last week I was on vacation, so I took advantage of the time and got the tensioner and chains replaced. Good thing I did, because the shop told me I was probably 5k miles from catastrophy.

Shop pulled off the cover and saw this:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/dafoulask/tensioner%20cover_zpszp9ejouf.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/dafoulask/media/tensioner%20cover_zpszp9ejouf.jpg.html)

The chain sliced through the oil spigot!

The only things I noticed recently is a more audible rattle on idle/acceleration, and when I had my stage II, slight acceleration uphill would surge a little bit as described in this thread (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/697903-Surging-under-mild-acceleration)

I can only count myself as lucky. I will take pictures of the old tensioner tonight and post as well.

Needless to say, if you have a B8 with an older version of the tensioner, do yourself a favor and at least have it checked out, and/or replaced.

[DPD314]

Had mine replaced last week along with a carbon cleaning - $1087 - peace of mind - priceless.

[nycaudi]

Had mine replaced last week along with a carbon cleaning - $1087 - peace of mind - priceless.

obviously not at the dealer or else you would have paid 4k....does your vehicle sound, drive any different? are you babying the gas pedal since this was done?

[hecren1]

Just had my tensioner and chain done at the dealer for $1250 after taxes and I found a coupon for $90. Total was $1160


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[nycaudi]

Just had my tensioner and chain done at the dealer for $1250 after taxes and I found a coupon for $90. Total was $1160


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mileage? Do you notice a difference?

[hecren1]

I'm at 118k. At first it was taking a second longer for the car to start but now it's back to normal, other than that the car feels the same. Now I can sleep peacefully.


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[nycaudi]

I'm at 118k. At first it was taking a second longer for the car to start but now it's back to normal, other than that the car feels the same. Now I can sleep peacefully.


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Scary shit. Will do mine soon

[DPD314]

obviously not at the dealer or else you would have paid 4k....does your vehicle sound, drive any different? are you babying the gas pedal since this was done?

Everything feels smoother but I couldnt tell you if that was from the carbon cleaning or what. Also had an oil change done. I dont drive too aggressive to begin and havent done anything outrageous since I got her back. 85k miles btw.

[Transporter7220]

I swapped my tensioner a couple weeks ago, not a bad job at all if you have an impact to take the harmonic balancer off. Everything else can be done with basic hand tools and a decent torx set.

I have a 2012 A4 Avant S-Line with the AB revision tensioner, Build date 09/11, APR State 2 for the last 25,000 miles. Had roughly 105,000 miles when I did the swap. I wasn't really experiencing any problems before the swap, just wanted to get it up to date so I didn't have to worry about it and I could continue pouring miles on it.

For anyone that wants to check which tensioner they have by looking through the plug in the lower timing cover, this Craftsman lighted telescoping mirror made the job cake, and made visibility great. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-lighted-inspection-mirror/p-00945047000P?intcmp=ken-pdp-buy-cta

I used the Deutsche Auto Parts tensioner service kit, very happy with it. https://deutscheautoparts.com/tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit.html

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_165724.jpg

The view from the lower timing cover plug

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160701_183831-1.jpg

A lift makes things much easier

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_144540.jpg

Turns out my radiator and intercooler were mostly blocked off

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_154630.jpg

I had read in another how to that it took a bunch of turns to open the coolant drain, only took half a turn for me

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_161150.jpg

I laid a cooler down in front of my car and laid the radiator down on it, that way I didn't have to unhook the transmission lines and lose any oil

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_163049.jpg

Great time to replace your diverter valve as well, much easier than trying to sneak your hands up there with the radiator in the way

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_163301.jpg

Pulled the harmonic balancer off with a half inch air impact, came off very easily

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_165755.jpg

Then installed the supplier spacer

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_165811.jpg

Take your time removing the cover, that sealant is impressively sticky stuff, also drain your oil before you remove the cover. I read 3 DIY's and none of them said it was necessary. I had about a quart drain out when I removed the cover, thankfully I had a clean bucket handy to catch it.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_170915.jpg

Zip ties keep tension on the chain while you remove the old tensioner

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_171359.jpg

Old tensioner removed

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_171532.jpg

New tensioner installed

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_171717.jpg

Retainer removed

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_171735.jpg

Zip ties removed

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_171813.jpg

Silicone on the new cover

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_172754.jpg

Flange cleaned up

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_172910.jpg

And new cover installed

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv31/Transporter7220/Avant/20160715_173806.jpg

Hope that helps someone out, let me know if you have any questions or want more info to narrow down the affected years, I'll do my best to answer.

Also worth noting, my engine had 105,000 miles on it, and the last 25,000 miles under my ownership have not been easy on it. All the tensioners and chains looked great, and I had no qualms leaving them in. All chains stretch at first, which is why there's a tensioner, but then they pretty much stop stretching. I know everyone is nervous about ruining a head due to timing problems, but timing chains are old technology. Running them to 200,000 miles is typical. If you have the money to blow on all new chains and tensioners, by all means go for it. But know that you are doing just that, blowing the money.

[kdaffy]

^ excellent writeup, thanks!

Below are some photos of my old tensioner...not sure if anyone will find them useful, but figured I post up for completeness:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/dafoulask/IMG_20160802_194930_zpsiybtpzgt.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/dafoulask/media/IMG_20160802_194930_zpsiybtpzgt.jpg.html)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/dafoulask/IMG_20160802_194952_zpsgnlydcbi.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/dafoulask/media/IMG_20160802_194952_zpsgnlydcbi.jpg.html)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/dafoulask/IMG_20160802_195025_zpst8ghfvu5.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/dafoulask/media/IMG_20160802_195025_zpst8ghfvu5.jpg.html)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/dafoulask/IMG_20160802_195037_zpsmzpcsh3k.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/dafoulask/media/IMG_20160802_195037_zpsmzpcsh3k.jpg.html)

Looks like the tensioner was maxed out, and my chain was still hitting the timing cover, so this thing was close to failing.

[b8_Jeff]

Just had mine done, my chain was "stretched" but not failed YET.

2010 A4 // 83k miles...

I had other things wrong that was fixed and added to the bill so I cannot give an accurate price. BUT its around 1200-1500 range.

[Jerritt]

Had my timing tensioner, guides, chains and valves done for $2500 all in. Drive Auto did the work. When it was completed they discovered a misfire and no compression in my 3rd cyl. Thought it was piston but turns out the intake cam lobe rotated on one of the valves by 15 degrees and is causing valves to but open at the wrong times. Have to lay out another $1700 to redo something that couldve been noticed had they checked out the intake cam alignment

[hockeysc23]

Received a call back from Audi of America customer service manager. He didn't answer any of the questions he told me he would and was very rude in telling me that there were no campaigns, so nothing he could do. I asked him what research was done? He said we repeated we searched our own databases and highway safety administration database and found nothing. He then told me it's part of an audi's routine service to maintain the tensioner. I didn't ind that in any literature. Realizing I was getting no where, I asked politely to speak to his manager/supervisor. He told me there was no one else, he was the end of communication. I asked several times who does he report to, is there anyone above him and he told me he could give me the name of the Audi president. I thought that was beyond rude and not necessary.

I hope that everyone that has an issue reports it to Audi so they can see how big of an issue this is. I'm going to keep trying but unless others have POCs or ideas the brand is tarnished in my mind.

[DPD314]

Received a call back from Audi of America customer service manager. He didn't answer any of the questions he told me he would and was very rude in telling me that there were no campaigns, so nothing he could do. I asked him what research was done? He said we repeated we searched our own databases and highway safety administration database and found nothing. He then told me it's part of an audi's routine service to maintain the tensioner. I didn't ind that in any literature. Realizing I was getting no where, I asked politely to speak to his manager/supervisor. He told me there was no one else, he was the end of communication. I asked several times who does he report to, is there anyone above him and he told me he could give me the name of the Audi president. I thought that was beyond rude and not necessary.

I hope that everyone that has an issue reports it to Audi so they can see how big of an issue this is. I'm going to keep trying but unless others have POCs or ideas the brand is tarnished in my mind.

Wow what a jackass. Yea if that happened to me I certainly wouldnt be back.

[JD23]

Received a call back from Audi of America customer service manager. He didn't answer any of the questions he told me he would and was very rude in telling me that there were no campaigns, so nothing he could do. I asked him what research was done? He said we repeated we searched our own databases and highway safety administration database and found nothing. He then told me it's part of an audi's routine service to maintain the tensioner. I didn't ind that in any literature. Realizing I was getting no where, I asked politely to speak to his manager/supervisor. He told me there was no one else, he was the end of communication. I asked several times who does he report to, is there anyone above him and he told me he could give me the name of the Audi president. I thought that was beyond rude and not necessary.

I hope that everyone that has an issue reports it to Audi so they can see how big of an issue this is. I'm going to keep trying but unless others have POCs or ideas the brand is tarnished in my mind.

I would recommended writing a letter to the President of AoA. It may not accomplish anything, but has a better possibility than wasting more time dealing with a rude customer service drone.

[hockeysc23]

I would recommended writing a letter to the President of AoA. It may not accomplish anything, but has a better possibility than wasting more time dealing with a rude customer service drone.

Good idea. I tweeted Audi and they sent me a direct message a little while ago asking to talk. Maybe progress.

[nycaudi]

got a quote for 483 for the required parts for this service along with my accessory belt and pulley...with all the part numbers did some research and ended up saving 100 on parts:

Mechanical Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, camshaft & timing, timing chain A4 Primary 2.0L 1 $115.32 $0.00 $115.32
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Mechanical Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, camshaft & timing, tensioner A4 Primary 2.0L 1 $57.99 $0.00 $57.99
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Mechanical Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, camshaft & timing, chain guide A4 Primary Upper 2.0L 1 $6.32 $0.00 $6.32
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, engine / transaxle, engine parts, timing case seal 2.0 LITER 1 $4.53 $0.00 $4.53
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
cooling system, cooling, belts & pulleys, serpentine belt 2.0 LITER, 2009-12 1 $43.15 $0.00 $43.15
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
cooling system, cooling, belts & pulleys, belt tensioner 2.0 LITER, 2009-12 1 $72.13 $0.00 $72.13
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
cooling system, cooling, belts & pulleys, idler pulley 2.0 LITER, 2009-12 1 $27.28 $0.00 $27.28
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, engine / transaxle, engine parts, front cover seal 2.0 LITER 1 $5.64 $0.00 $5.64
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
engine, engine / transaxle, engine parts, front cover gasket 2.0 LITER 1 $8.85 $0.00 $8.85
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
OEM Catalog
Engine / transaxle Engine parts Flange Sealer Sealer 1 $15.49 $0.00 $15.49
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Collision Catalog - 2009 - Audi - A4 Quattro
cooling system, cooling, belts & pulleys, belt tensioner bolt 2.0 LITER, 2009-12 1 $2.21 $0.00 $2.21
Status: Ordered Cancel Order
Sub Total $358.91
Tax $0.00
Fedex Ground - Shipping $34.10
Handling Fee $0.00
Total $393.01

peace of mind will be delivered by friday.

[buelldozer]

@STA4,

How the hell is a new head $4,600? I went to my local VW dealer (who has Audi connections) and was quoted $1,400 without new CAMs and $2200 with!

Oh, and I'm finding out that I was woefully unprepared to tackle this job. Apparently a couple of decades working on American cars doesn't really qualify you to tear down a German wonder engine. [o_o]

[skywalker15]

@STA4,

How the hell is a new head $4,600? I went to my local VW dealer (who has Audi connections) and was quoted $1,400 without new CAMs and $2200 with!

Oh, and I'm finding out that I was woefully unprepared to tackle this job. Apparently a couple of decades working on American cars doesn't really qualify you to tear down a German wonder engine. [o_o]
I'll second your notion that working on these engines is another animal compared to American. Don't have quite the longevity as you do, but grew up working on American cars, super bikes and sprint car engines and while I got the job done, there was a lot of cursing involved while doing this job haha

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[cuda2000]

Got my tensioner replaced today on my 2010 Audi A4 Quattro 59,000 miles.
I called the Fort Myers Audi dealer 2 weeks ago, asking if they could do the work, they said they have not ever had anyone request it, and didn't know how much it would cost. They never got back to me.
Found a shop called VAP Motorsports in Fort Myers that specializes in Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche.
Called them up, they knew the problem with the tensioner very well, and was glad to hear I wanted to replace it preventatively, as they recommend it, and have had to rebuild engines because of the failure.
Got it done today, Tensioner # 06k-109-467-k $75.00 and Timing case cover 06k-109-210-af $179.00
Labor was $570.00
Total $887.90 with tax

Now I have peace of mind. Bought the car new in May 2010. Had the pistons replaced in January by Audi.

Oh, one more thing. The owner of the shop said that he has seen the new revision tensioner fail, but when it fails you hear a tapping noise at start up as it has a fail-safe so that it does not lose tension.

[hockeysc23]

Update after 4+ conversations with a high level supervisor, Audi claimed they looked into vehicle loyalty and since I don't have enough history with Audi there is nothing they can do. I explained to them this is my first one and the first opportunity for service that I took to an Audi dealer, so I don't know how I could do anymore. If a first time customer has problems how do you expect to keep that customer?

They had nothing and basically said decision is final. I let them know they've lost a customer. I am done with Audi based on the poor customer service. Now hopefully I can sell this car for some value and find something else enjoyable to drive. What a shame.

[MPOW33R]

Just bought a 2012 P+ and it has 129K, mint condition
all records Oil Consumption Part 1 done.

Called Audi Service Advisor he gave me some BS, saying the tensioner
will warn you, it'll rattle you MPGs will drop etc it'll this and that nonsense.. So he quoted me $1,400 for
preventative work and said big waste of money, these engines are bullet proof and you do not need it.
he also did say people with 3rd party extended warranty get covered for this all the time, i LOL'd but ok.

Mind you mine is perfect, runs great and etc .. so im opting
for an extended warranty through a company called ASAP ,
American Standard Automotive Protection 4.8 Stars BBB A+ Rated etc
now they have some fine print, here -

"6. Gasoline/Diesel Engine: Cylinder block, cylinder head(s) if damage by internally lubricated parts. All internally
lubricated parts including: pistons, piston rings and pins, crankshaft and main bearings, connecting rods and rod
bearings, camshaft and bearings, pushrods, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, seats and guides, lifters, followers, oil
pump, timing chain, timing gear. Valve covers, timing cover, and oil pan if damaged by internally lubricated parts;
vacuum pump, Seals and gaskets"

I called the rep and said is the tensioner covered? He said any lubricated parts that are in conjunction with the timing chain
are - now thats kind of gray and im not a mechanic - anyone who is or know can you chime in before I buy this?

thank you in advance !!

Is the tensioner a lubricated part of the chain see the print above ?

[Project Quattro]

Just bought a 2012 P+ and it has 129K, mint condition
all records Oil Consumption Part 1 done.

Called Audi Service Advisor he gave me some BS, saying the tensioner
will warn you, it'll rattle you MPGs will drop etc it'll this and that nonsense.. So he quoted me $1,400 for
preventative work and said big waste of money, these engines are bullet proof and you do not need it.
he also did say people with 3rd party extended warranty get covered for this all the time, i LOL'd but ok.

Mind you mine is perfect, runs great and etc .. so im opting
for an extended warranty through a company called ASAP ,
American Standard Automotive Protection 4.8 Stars BBB A+ Rated etc
now they have some fine print, here -

"6. Gasoline/Diesel Engine: Cylinder block, cylinder head(s) if damage by internally lubricated parts. All internally
lubricated parts including: pistons, piston rings and pins, crankshaft and main bearings, connecting rods and rod
bearings, camshaft and bearings, pushrods, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, seats and guides, lifters, followers, oil
pump, timing chain, timing gear. Valve covers, timing cover, and oil pan if damaged by internally lubricated parts;
vacuum pump, Seals and gaskets"

I called the rep and said is the tensioner covered? He said any lubricated parts that are in conjunction with the timing chain
are - now thats kind of gray and im not a mechanic - anyone who is or know can you chime in before I buy this?

thank you in advance !!

Is the tensioner a lubricated part of the chain see the print above ?

I would personally suggest paying for the preventative repair at an indy shop rather than buying a 3rd party warranty. Aside from Carmax those things don't have a great reputation.


Sent from the Pedal Responce boardroom

[skywalker15]

I can't speak to if that insurance company would cover the tensioner failing. I personally would think the tensioner would fall into that category..it's a part of the timing system so I wouldn't see why not. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fight it if you made a claim especially since it isn't specifically called out.

I would personally do the preventative maintenance however try to find a reputable Indy shop, there have been others who have had this performed for a lot less.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[cuda2000]

Update after 4+ conversations with a high level supervisor, Audi claimed they looked into vehicle loyalty and since I don't have enough history with Audi there is nothing they can do. I explained to them this is my first one and the first opportunity for service that I took to an Audi dealer, so I don't know how I could do anymore. If a first time customer has problems how do you expect to keep that customer?

They had nothing and basically said decision is final. I let them know they've lost a customer. I am done with Audi based on the poor customer service. Now hopefully I can sell this car for some value and find something else enjoyable to drive. What a shame.

You paid $2400 to get your engine repaired at a dealer, correct? It runs fine now? Sorry but I wouldn't get bent out of shape over that. Some of the normal yearly maintenance inter als at the dealer costs over $1000. You got it fixed reasonably, could have been much worse. I just had my tensioner replaced preventatively and it cost over $800, not at dealer. I bought my 2010 brand new and got all required maintenance done at dealer. Do you really think Audi should treat you better than someone who paid $40,000 plus maintenances? Before you bought the car you posted on here and you were told you should buy CPO or get a warranty. You rolled the dice. If the class action lawsuit goes through in the next 12 months, you may get your money back. Wait and see.

[hockeysc23]

You paid $2400 to get your engine repaired at a dealer, correct? It runs fine now? Sorry but I wouldn't get bent out of shape over that. Some of the normal yearly maintenance inter als at the dealer costs over $1000. You got it fixed reasonably, could have been much worse. I just had my tensioner replaced preventatively and it cost over $800, not at dealer. I bought my 2010 brand new and got all required maintenance done at dealer. Do you really think Audi should treat you better than someone who paid $40,000 plus maintenances? Before you bought the car you posted on here and you were told you should buy CPO or get a warranty. You rolled the dice. If the class action lawsuit goes through in the next 12 months, you may get your money back. Wait and see.

Fair points. I think if it's a faulty part and I had the maintenance done by them they should try to rectify the issue to keep a customer. 2.5k or some portion now keeps me a customer for life and has me purchase my wife an Audi. But having a part that is known to fail, fail through no fault of owner maintenance cost that much I find unreasonable. I've had lesser car brands and other companies provide better customer service.

I wish CPO was an option but there weren't any when I purchased. The after market warranty I'd be fighting with a third party company and was 8k.

Maybe I'm off and if so I'm paying the bill. Just seems common sense and customer appreciation would have Audi trying to do something. Oh well I've learned and they've lost a customer.

I just hope everyone reports this issue so Audi is aware.

[cuda2000]

Fair points. I think if it's a faulty part and I had the maintenance done by them they should try to rectify the issue to keep a customer. 2.5k or some portion now keeps me a customer for life and has me purchase my wife an Audi. But having a part that is known to fail, fail through no fault of owner maintenance cost that much I find unreasonable. I've had lesser car brands and other companies provide better customer service.

I wish CPO was an option but there weren't any when I purchased. The after market warranty I'd be fighting with a third party company and was 8k.

Maybe I'm off and if so I'm paying the bill. Just seems common sense and customer appreciation would have Audi trying to do something. Oh well I've learned and they've lost a customer.

I just hope everyone reports this issue so Audi is aware.
You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

[hockeysc23]

You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

Respectfully I had the repairs done by Audi at the first service interval. There was no other applicable chance to establish an Audi relationship beforehand. If the refrigerator(or whatever product) has a faulty part then yes i expect a company to stand behind their brand.

If the issue is from my failure to maintain the product then I'd agree with you. This is from my research a part that shouldn't go bad this early if properly designed. So because they poorly designed I was hoping they would try to rectify the situation and earn a repeat customer. My wife is due for a car and wanted a q5. instead their line was not about the part but my lack of loyalty. How does one earn loyalty if their first one breaks? I've had other less expensive car companies stand behind their products including a VW I had that I also purchased used.

I'm either incorrect in the faulty of the part or we just disagree.

[elscotto80]

I can't speak to if that insurance company would cover the tensioner failing. I personally would think the tensioner would fall into that category..it's a part of the timing system so I wouldn't see why not. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fight it if you made a claim especially since it isn't specifically called out.

I would personally do the preventative maintenance however try to find a reputable Indy shop, there have been others who have had this performed for a lot less.

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I feel like it would be covered per the language you posted from their policy. I have the Audi Fidelity policy and it covered (partially) mine when I had it in for a ton of work. I was on the hook for some bits they didnt cover but got the new tensioner, guides, etc. Cost me about 500 on top of the 3500 the warranty folks covered for a long list of items my shop was able to get them to replace (mounts, bushings, propeller shaft, valve cover gasket, etc).

[IHave2Turbos]

@cuda2000

While your points are valid in many circumstances the manufacturer is legally required to support the car for the lifetime (reasonably) of the car regardless of which # owner you are. This is the basis of the TSB and recall process. This part is billed as lifetime, there is no service interval for it in the manual, the owner is not expected to know about the intracies of the problem based on bulletin board time.

There is going to be a class action about this part, AoA knows this. They should buck up and fix the $80 part when knowledgeable people bring the issue to them. This is no way to earn loyalty. Another random point, resale value of a car is a decision point for many buyers, if your 40+k car isn't going to be worth anything in 4 years you are probably not going to buy it. The manufacturer should be expected to step up in situations like this to EARN loyalty not turn people away because they don't have "enough" loyalty.

I think we'd have a lot easier time getting goodwill if they hadn't just gotten their dicks kicked in to the tune of $15 billion or whatever for their other scummy practices.

[JD23]

You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

Did Takata use a similar argument? As mentioned already, it will not help any of our resale values if it becomes well known that the engines on B8s frequently grenade after only six or seven years and the manufacturer still denies the existence of a systemic defect.

[cuda2000]

If someone was injured or killed because of it, it would get recalled for sure. Problem is, it kills the motor on startup, not out of park yet, so no injury. Can't compare this to takata, people died when the airbags went off. I don't care about resale value, if I did, I would not have bought it brand new like I did. What I care about is driving it to at least 150k miles. I got my pistons replaced, and now tensioner is fixed, so anything else, should be less than $5,000 to repair, so that's still cheaper than buying another one, and you can't get the feeling of quattro on any other car. It is awesome. If you buy a used one for half the price of new, I can't see how you can complain about any repair less than $10,000. You still are not at the price of a new one.

[johnnySV]

I have a 2010 undergoing Phase1 oil test next week.

i inquired if the dealer could replace/update my tensioner at that time, since Phase1 includes front crank seal replacement, which is in the timing cover. I learned that the cover is not removed to do Phase1, so it's better to wait until Phase2 to do this.

If my car gets to Phase2, the dealer phone-quoted $0 Labor and $398 Parts to me for the updated tensioner. how can I get AofA to pickup that parts bill?

Thanks !!


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[cuda2000]

I have a 2010 undergoing Phase1 oil test next week.

i inquired if the dealer could replace/update my tensioner at that time, since Phase1 includes front crank seal replacement, which is in the timing cover. I learned that the cover is not removed to do Phase1, so it's better to wait until Phase2 to do this.

If my car gets to Phase2, the dealer phone-quoted $0 Labor and $398 Parts to me for the updated tensioner. how can I get AofA to pickup that parts bill?

Thanks !!


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If you get Stage 2 done, go to the parts counter, buy the tensioner for $100 and hand it to the service guy when you give him the keys. They will have the engine totally torn apart for the Pistons so replacing the tensioner is just the cost of the tensioner. Hope your tensioner doesn't fail by the time you bring it back in the next 1200 miles before stage 2 checkup.

[Jks2327]

My tensioner failed and now the engine is being rebuilt. i tried sending a message to Audi and all they could offer me was 15% off the repair only if I had it done at an Audi dealer....which isn't worth it so I'll keep it at the independent shop that has rebuilt plenty of Audi/Porsche engines for my family over the years. I've heard of others having more luck getting Audi to help pay for this, but what can you do.

[sidkneeeeee]

My tensioner failed and now the engine is being rebuilt. i tried sending a message to Audi and all they could offer me was 15% off the repair only if I had it done at an Audi dealer....which isn't worth it so I'll keep it at the independent shop that has rebuilt plenty of Audi/Porsche engines for my family over the years. I've heard of others having more luck getting Audi to help pay for this, but what can you do.

year and miles on your car?

[ak11214]

If you get Stage 2 done, go to the parts counter, buy the tensioner for $100 and hand it to the service guy when you give him the keys. They will have the engine totally torn apart for the Pistons so replacing the tensioner is just the cost of the tensioner. Hope your tensioner doesn't fail by the time you bring it back in the next 1200 miles before stage 2 checkup.

Wish you had written this comment earlier.

[Jks2327]

2009 A4 2.0t, 89,500 miles on it. The sad part was I had just had the water pump replaced 6 months ago and has no idea the timing chain tensioner was an issue until I found this forum and the class action suit

[Dzhedaj]

2009 B8 in Europe. Almost 180k km on the clock (~110k miles), has had a stage2 oil consumption fix done at 106k km (66k miles) - the chain was untouched by Audi.
Also had a leaking head gasket roughtly 10k km ago, during that head rebuild the chain and sliders were inspected (independent garage), had no visible wear, so no maintenance done on the chain.

Now 10k km later the car started misfiring heavily at low rpm and very low accelerator angle. Took it in for diagnosis, no trouble codes, nothing wrong according to the garage. Replaced the coils (just to be sure) - the camshaft sensor error popped up, chain started making noise at startup. Aftermath:
The chain has skipped 1 tooth, the sliders are all damaged, as well as the chain covers (both upper cam cover and the lower one). The tensioner is obviously also non-functional.

Read most topics on the forums, found nothing about the chain tensioner a year ago... had I known this was an issue, could've saved me a lot of headache..

[Gunnark100]

2009 B8 in Europe. Almost 180k km on the clock (~110k miles), has had a stage2 oil consumption fix done at 106k km (66k miles) - the chain was untouched by Audi.
Also had a leaking head gasket roughtly 10k km ago, during that head rebuild the chain and sliders were inspected (independent garage), had no visible wear, so no maintenance done on the chain.

Now 10k km later the car started misfiring heavily at low rpm and very low accelerator angle. Took it in for diagnosis, no trouble codes, nothing wrong according to the garage. Replaced the coils (just to be sure) - the camshaft sensor error popped up, chain started making noise at startup. Aftermath:
The chain has skipped 1 tooth, the sliders are all damaged, as well as the chain covers (both upper cam cover and the lower one). The tensioner is obviously also non-functional.

Read most topics on the forums, found nothing about the chain tensioner a year ago... had I known this was an issue, could've saved me a lot of headache..


Sorry to hear, regarding maintenance work etc use "east":) forums, constantly good companies on forum helping people everyday including dealer etc(not much help now but for future)!

[Tim R.]

I just had mine replaced. 2010 with 116k. It was the first gen tensioner so probably the original. Timing chain and guides in excellent condition. $77 for the part and $450 in labor. Now I can sleep at night.

The car had the stage 2 oil consumption fix at 90k and runs great with no excess oil use. The dealer never mentioned to the PO that the tensioner or anything else should be serviced at that time.

I saved the part and the receipt in case I can get any satisfaction from AoA as a result of the lawsuit.

[itlnstallion818]

I have a 2013 A4 CAEB, i had my long block replaced. Would this have been something that was done?

[Tim R.]

I have a 2013 A4 CAEB, i had my long block replaced. Would this have been something that was done?

Maybe, maybe not. Check the parts list on your invoice.

[Demringstho864]

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14199414_10210097026520939_4397209370619704491_n.j pg?oh=173849f9075ce0397ef2a94b102c08ca&oe=5879AA27

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14224735_10210097029081003_7422611442158965782_n.j pg?oh=759affcfa68d014801bce598f5e90f04&oe=584EA4F9

I had everything replaced. Both chains, All Guides, Both Tensioners, everything. labor was the same price for just the tensioner. i just had them do everything. 107K miles. price was like 1900 bucks

[VNA4]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160907/d74b542fa4de89a78f81d821ff24d63e.jpg

Had this fault code for a day...then it went away no code ever since. Went to my local shop ( Sprint Auto work) we didn't find any codes. But there were 3 Audi there that had the timing chain tensioner issue waiting to get worked on. All of them were 2010-2011...
For now ima wait and see if I get the code then replace it if not I'll keep and driving ( and praying)


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[A4 Centaur]

^ I wouldn't risk driving after seeing that code.

Bite the bullet and either get it fixed or trade the car in.

A grenaded engine will cost you tons of money.

[VNA4]

Quote from Allowencer :
"front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)"

When you say " that's if they didn't tweak/ bend it on removal " Do you mean its a must that this part has to be bent to be removed?
Reason I'm asking is because the shop I'm getting the timing chain tensioner work done told me it bents in the removal process so they had to order " timing cover" Which cost an additional 160$.


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[Gunnark100]

Quote from Allowencer :
Reason I'm asking is because the shop I'm getting the timing chain tensioner work done told me it bents in the removal process so they had to order " timing cover" Which cost an additional 160$.
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Just my expirience with this, everything was changed out, but not cover, oilleak after, so they did it again...looks like no leaks anymore, but will see(still old cover). Its a big job and they probably dont want to risk with it. Check for oilleak right away just in case, after drive!

[JVince]

I got my Stage 2 done cause mine was consuming lots of oil.

When I got my invoice I went through it and it look like they did the timing chain and tensioner as well.

I think when they started opening stuff up to do the job they noticed that it was all stretched and they replaced it while they were in there.

Do I have to worry about this issue coming up in the future?

[VNA4]

Just my expirience with this, everything was changed out, but not cover, oilleak after, so they did it again...looks like no leaks anymore, but will see(still old cover). Its a big job and they probably dont want to risk with it. Check for oilleak right away just in case, after drive!

They ordered a new cover cause the cover bent upon removal. I'm just wondering if it's procedure to replace or they fuck up and bent it, then ordered a new one and charged me for it


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[skywalker15]

They ordered a new cover cause the cover bent upon removal. I'm just wondering if it's procedure to replace or they fuck up and bent it, then ordered a new one and charged me for it


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I can't say whether or not it's "procedure" for them to replace, however that cover does bend very easily. The lower cover uses a gasket sealant so to get the cover off you have to essentially pry around the flange to break free from the gasket. The flange on the cover is very, very thin so it's pretty easy to bend or break depending on how old it is and how much force they use to get it off. When I took mine off, I was able to get it off without bending and re-use it but I can definitely see how it would be recommended you replace it.

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[VNA4]

I can't say whether or not it's "procedure" for them to replace, however that cover does bend very easily. The lower cover uses a gasket sealant so to get the cover off you have to essentially pry around the flange to break free from the gasket. The flange on the cover is very, very thin so it's pretty easy to bend or break depending on how old it is and how much force they use to get it off. When I took mine off, I was able to get it off without bending and re-use it but I can definitely see how it would be recommended you replace it.

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Got it, thanks for the reply Skywalker15

[STA4]

Got it, thanks for the reply Skywalker15

Yes, it's very difficult not to bend, so it's often replaced to avoid leaks.

[Marko S]

Replaces my upper chain and tensioner with all guide rails and put in a fluidamp. Labour was $1200 canadian and I bought the kit from ecs.

The tensioner looked in good shape but was the T revision off my 2011.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/276ea22c410ce06c51189f4f82c6d32e.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/1fbc6f096aee0b8d9ea99547034f57c7.jpg

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[A4x]

Replaces my upper chain and tensioner with all guide rails and put in a fluidamp. Labour was $1200 canadian and I bought the kit from ecs.

The tensioner looked in good shape but was the T revision off my 2011.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/276ea22c410ce06c51189f4f82c6d32e.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/1fbc6f096aee0b8d9ea99547034f57c7.jpg

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Where did you get this done at in the Toronto area? I will be looking to do this in a year or so....if mine doesn't blow before then. I'm also 2011. Is the T revision good or bad?

[Marko S]

Where did you get this done at in the Toronto area? I will be looking to do this in a year or so....if mine doesn't blow before then. I'm also 2011. Is the T revision good or bad?
I have no clue about the T revision but its the third. The k is the newest soI would think its ok. As I said, mine looked in good shape. Car has just under 100k.

I got it done at Independent Tuning in Scarborough.

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[DoooDahMan]

Mine blew up. 98,000 miles. 2009 A4 Avant. Needs a whole new head at a cost of around $5k. This is after having pistons and rings done at 60,000 for oil consumption and a new intake manifold at 62,000. AoA refused to help at all on parts or labor, dealer offered a discount on the labor. Mulling options now. Not impressed.

[misterpepper]

I've got a no start condition and I'm worried that it might be something under the timing chain covers. Probably not a failed tensioner, because looking through the inspection hole everything seems okay, although it is an old style tensioner and I have ~130k miles on the engine, so my plan is to replace it.

The car ran fine when parked but now trying to start it , it acts like something is binding in the engine, and relieving some pressure off the engine by rotating it backwards slightly at the crank caused a noise coming from under the upper timing chain cover that makes me think that something is either jammed between the chain and sprocket or that the chain has started to jump the sprocket and is getting jammed between the sprocket and the cover.

But let's say it is the tensioner and the timing chain has slipped enough so that the valves are hitting the pistons, would the starter motor alone have enough torque to bend the valves?

[STA4]

I've got a no start condition and I'm worried that it might be something under the timing chain covers. Probably not a failed tensioner, because looking through the inspection hole everything seems okay, although it is an old style tensioner and I have ~130k miles on the engine, so my plan is to replace it.

The car ran fine when parked but now trying to start it , it acts like something is binding in the engine, and relieving some pressure off the engine by rotating it backwards slightly at the crank caused a noise coming from under the upper timing chain cover that makes me think that something is either jammed between the chain and sprocket or that the chain has started to jump the sprocket and is getting jammed between the sprocket and the cover.

But let's say it is the tensioner and the timing chain has slipped enough so that the valves are hitting the pistons, would the starter motor alone have enough torque to bend the valves?

Yes, absolutely. Mine were bent off one short crank.

[skywalker15]

I've got a no start condition and I'm worried that it might be something under the timing chain covers. Probably not a failed tensioner, because looking through the inspection hole everything seems okay, although it is an old style tensioner and I have ~130k miles on the engine, so my plan is to replace it.

The car ran fine when parked but now trying to start it , it acts like something is binding in the engine, and relieving some pressure off the engine by rotating it backwards slightly at the crank caused a noise coming from under the upper timing chain cover that makes me think that something is either jammed between the chain and sprocket or that the chain has started to jump the sprocket and is getting jammed between the sprocket and the cover.

But let's say it is the tensioner and the timing chain has slipped enough so that the valves are hitting the pistons, would the starter motor alone have enough torque to bend the valves?
Definitely can bend valves just from cranking if your pistons are hitting

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[MrTylerRaines]

Sooooooooooooo glad i replaced during consumption/piston replacement....money wellll spent.


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[misterpepper]

Borescope looks like a valve has dropped in cylinder 3. I wasn't planning to remove the head, but now it looks like I have to in order to assess the damage. What is the best source for good used/rebuilt heads in the event the long block looks salvageable? I've had stage 2 oil consumption fix done and was consuming essentially zero oil between changes and I'd rather not roll the dice on a new engine if it isn't necessary. What would you guys do I my situation?

[The Infiltrator]

Borescope looks like a valve has dropped in cylinder 3. I wasn't planning to remove the head, but now it looks like I have to in order to assess the damage. What is the best source for good used/rebuilt heads in the event the long block looks salvageable? I've had stage 2 oil consumption fix done and was consuming essentially zero oil between changes and I'd rather not roll the dice on a new engine if it isn't necessary. What would you guys do I my situation?

Your dealer won't cover it under the 12 month warranty they gave you from the Stage II fix?

[misterpepper]

Stage 2 fix was done by the PO over 2 years and 30k miles ago. They did not update any of the timing components. I'll ask, but I highly doubt it.

[JBAeroEngineer]

going under the knife tomorrow for this, along with stage 2.

[The Infiltrator]

Stage 2 fix was done by the PO over 2 years and 30k miles ago. They did not update any of the timing components. I'll ask, but I highly doubt it.

Ouch, yeah its a 2 year 12k mile warranty I think.

[o1turbo30v]

Borescope looks like a valve has dropped in cylinder 3. I wasn't planning to remove the head, but now it looks like I have to in order to assess the damage. What is the best source for good used/rebuilt heads in the event the long block looks salvageable? I've had stage 2 oil consumption fix done and was consuming essentially zero oil between changes and I'd rather not roll the dice on a new engine if it isn't necessary. What would you guys do I my situation?

car-part.com is where you can score a used head.

[Zach L]

Borescope looks like a valve has dropped in cylinder 3. I wasn't planning to remove the head, but now it looks like I have to in order to assess the damage. What is the best source for good used/rebuilt heads in the event the long block looks salvageable? I've had stage 2 oil consumption fix done and was consuming essentially zero oil between changes and I'd rather not roll the dice on a new engine if it isn't necessary. What would you guys do I my situation?Here's what you need for sale in the classifieds. $1,100 and you get extra parts:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/728888-FS-B8-A4-CAEB-Engine-Assembly-Parts-or-Whole

[skywalker15]

Borescope looks like a valve has dropped in cylinder 3. I wasn't planning to remove the head, but now it looks like I have to in order to assess the damage. What is the best source for good used/rebuilt heads in the event the long block looks salvageable? I've had stage 2 oil consumption fix done and was consuming essentially zero oil between changes and I'd rather not roll the dice on a new engine if it isn't necessary. What would you guys do I my situation?
In my situation, I took my existing head to a trusted machine shop by me and had the head resurfaced and cleaned. Luckily for me the head wasn't damaged so I was able to do that, cost about $500. When it was all said and done it looked like it had just rolled off the assembly line.

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[JBAeroEngineer]

Just received a phone call saying all Audi national stock for the parts regarding this fix have been pulled. Estimated new part arrival is 4-5 weeks.

[Hunter2011]

Just received a phone call saying all Audi national stock for the parts regarding this fix have been pulled. Estimated new part arrival is 4-5 weeks.
Did they make another version of the timing chain tensioner?

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[kdaffy]

^ +1...who gave you the call? Is it that the most recent K revision (06K-109-467-K) is out of stock or a new revision coming?

[JBAeroEngineer]

^ +1...who gave you the call? Is it that the most recent K revision (06K-109-467-K) is out of stock or a new revision coming?

Audi Silver Spring. Also called Audi Hunt Valley. They (Audi) pulled the current stock, didn't mention which version it was, just that there was a redesign in progress

[JBAeroEngineer]

Just got a call a little while ago saying the chains stocked were the issue. They are apparently sourcing one from outside the region. Service advisor wouldn't go in to much detail. Sorry guys. Will know the part number next week.

Edit: Looks like someone in the oil thread posted part numbers as of 11/11, http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/383430-THE-B8-A4-Oil-Consumption-Thread?p=12005713&viewfull=1#post12005713

[kdaffy]

Good to know...from that thread it looks like the k revision of the tensioner is still the most recent

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[Captain Amazing]

Just got my tensioner replaced. That was a fun. For you Canadian bros, I spent $1200 bucks for parts and labour to have it done.

[Zach L]

Ouch, yeah its a 2 year 12k mile warranty I think.Since they didn't replace the timing parts, the tensioner could have failed even just a week after the Stage 2 oil consumption work and they would have covered none of it.

[JBAeroEngineer]

Final damage. DC area prices.

http://i.imgur.com/4da5Mi6.jpg?1

[Hunter2011]

Final damage. DC area prices.

http://i.imgur.com/4da5Mi6.jpg?1

How was it only $380 for the chain and tensioner replacement? I thought it costed alot more than that.

[pierreb]

How was it only $380 for the chain and tensioner replacement? I thought it costed alot more than that.

They didn't charge him for the cover and a new oil filter. lol.

$80 part. Costs thou$and$ in damage...smdh @ Audi.

[JBAeroEngineer]

How was it only $380 for the chain and tensioner replacement? I thought it costed alot more than that.


They didn't charge him for the cover and a new oil filter. lol.

$80 part. Costs thou$and$ in damage...smdh @ Audi.

Was getting pistons and rings done too. Didn't have a labor function

[languiduck]

Funny, I had my pistons replaced in April 2015 at 52,000 miles and was told I was an idiot on here for getting the timing chain, tensioner, and guides replaced so soon; and then further questioned when I said the dealer didn't charge me labor to do it. Also, they found cam bridge screen broken and replaced that under warranty. Not sure if anyone has mentioned issues with that before because I was told it's not uncommon.

[pierreb]

Funny, I had my pistons replaced in April 2015 at 52,000 miles and was told I was an idiot on here for getting the timing chain, tensioner, and guides replaced so soon; and then further questioned when I said the dealer didn't charge me labor to do it. Also, they found cam bridge screen broken and replaced that under warranty. Not sure if anyone has mentioned issues with that before because I was told it's not uncommon.

Right on. Definitely a pretty complete list. I would have thrown a new rear main seal on there too. All this is 20/20 for me as I suffered many of these failures before getting the proper advice. Car was td1 anyway so...

[harrybinh]

Does anyone close to Tampa FL can do this? Or know a trusted shop? Cant wait for those law suits. Thanks


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[CONative]

Does anyone close to Tampa FL can do this? Or know a trusted shop? Cant wait for those law suits. Thanks


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Might have better luck in the regional forums finding your answer. Everyone in the Rocky Mountain forum (where I am located) are pretty responsive - worth a a shot.


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[Spawne32]

Anyone know if they have had any luck with the class action lawsuit. No clue if mine has been replaced or not on the A4 I just bought.

[Hunter2011]

I just bought my car a few weeks ago and I found out that my tensioner hasn't been replaced. I tried emailing audi about it and they took 2 weeks to respond and said there not going to help me at all.

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[JBAeroEngineer]

I just bought my car a few weeks ago and I found out that my tensioner hasn't been replaced. I tried emailing audi about it and they took 2 weeks to respond and said there not going to help me at all.

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no reason for them to yet...don't be offended. if you hit the 100k+ mileage change, and it wasn't done, that's something else though

[Hunter2011]

Yea, I have 103k miles. I'm pretty surprised the previous owner did not do the oil consumption fix or replace the timing chain tensioner.

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[JBAeroEngineer]

Yea, I have 103k miles. I'm pretty surprised the previous owner did not do the oil consumption fix or replace the timing chain tensioner.

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you're due for mandatory service check on the chain soon, so no worries.

[Hunter2011]

you're due for mandatory service check on the chain soon, so no worries.
Isn't the chain supposed to not need to be replaced?

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[JBAeroEngineer]

Isn't the chain supposed to not need to be replaced?

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Per Audi 2010 maintenance schedule: Timing Belt – replace at 110K miles (175,000 km) on Audi TTS or 130K miles (205,000 km) on Audi A3 2.0L TDI only. Check condition of timing belt tensioning system, dampening pulleys, and idler pulleys and replace if necessary.

[Hunter2011]

Per Audi 2010 maintenance schedule: Timing Belt – replace at 110K miles (175,000 km) on Audi TTS or 130K miles (205,000 km) on Audi A3 2.0L TDI only. Check condition of timing belt tensioning system, dampening pulleys, and idler pulleys and replace if necessary.
It's a timing chain not a timing belt

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[JBAeroEngineer]

It's a timing chain not a timing belt

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if the chain is in bad condition due to the tensioning system, it'll be replaced. it's a $100 part

[misterpepper]

Well my A4 is still sitting partially disassembled in my garage. I finally gave in and ordered the special tools for removing the crank pulley, after trying unsuccessfully to weld something up myself. I've been riding an old BMW motorcycle around for a month and have had to do a fair amount of wrenching to keep that on the road. It's getting cold and I'm ready to have 4 doors and a heater again. It looks like only 1 cylinder is bad, at least what I can see from the borescope. Does that sound like a definite head swap, or should I still pull the head first and assess the damage before ordering parts? Looks like I can get a pretty complete kit, including reman head, from Deutsche for $1900, or maybe save a little by getting the tensioner kit elsewhere and the head separately.

[A4 Centaur]

I would pop the head and see what exactly is wrong with the cylinder first, then order the parts you need to put her back on the road.

Best of luck!

[misterpepper]

I just got the tools to be able to finish pulling the head. I found a rogue metal piece inside the lower cover. It was probably about half an inch long, cylindrical, but when I looked at it, it made a break for the oil pan. I wasn't fast enough to catch it before it went in. :( It looks like the little boss below the keeper spring on my tensioner (rev T) is broken, so presumably whatever it was came from in there. Now to figure out what a pain pulling the oil pan is, especially with the front end splayed open and in the way everywhere. Not happy news, but I guess I'm closer to having a working car again.

[CONative]

I just got the tools to be able to finish pulling the head. I found a rogue metal piece inside the lower cover. It was probably about half an inch long, cylindrical, but when I looked at it, it made a break for the oil pan. I wasn't fast enough to catch it before it went in. :( It looks like the little boss below the keeper spring on my tensioner (rev T) is broken, so presumably whatever it was came from in there. Now to figure out what a pain pulling the oil pan is, especially with the front end splayed open and in the way everywhere. Not happy news, but I guess I'm closer to having a working car again.

From the sounds of it, I would think that's the screen on top of the oil galley. No bueno if it made a run for the oil pan.

Referencing Allowencer's DIY, post 2 talks about this part in more detail...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/709550-DIY-Motor-work-Timing-tensioner-or-anything-with-the-motor-and-front-end


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[fatkids]

Has the timing chain tensioner issue been fixed for the 2013+ models or is still an issue?

[misterpepper]

Well I finally got the head off. That was a pain. It got easier when I finally broke down and bought the tool kit. Turns out it was 2 valves that let go. All of them touched, but didn't damage the pistons, but the 2 that broke off did. How much damage to the piston would you guys live with and how much would you consider too much and the engine has to go?

[misterpepper]

Here are some pictures:
http://i.imgur.com/x8z2AC0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3lSGRcf.jpg

[misterpepper]

I think it looks worse than it is. Some metal got moved, but the dings aren't very deep. I need to Dremel off the metal that is above the piston surface to get a better idea of exactly how deep they are, but I would estimate about 1mm at the deepest.

[pierreb]

I responded in your other thread. Depends on how much longer you want to keep the car. I got a really nice deal on a used complete head with 30k miles back in march for $650 shipped and i think that was a STEAL. I don't know if they're still available at that price but a used engine is only $2500 these days. I would just do the engine swap if you want to keep the car.

[A4 Centaur]

I would recommend not to re-use the bottom end of that engine after seeing that damage.

The crank journal bearings and or the rods and rod ends may have some distortion which is not evident to the naked eye, but will become evident once you get up to speed.

I would hate to see you spend all that effort to get the engine back together just to have it break again.

Best wishes! and keep us informed.

[cuda2000]

VAP Motorsports in Fort Myers, FL replaced my chain tensioner for $800. Only took half a day.
They really know what they are doing.


Does anyone close to Tampa FL can do this? Or know a trusted shop? Cant wait for those law suits. Thanks


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[Spawne32]

I think it looks worse than it is. Some metal got moved, but the dings aren't very deep. I need to Dremel off the metal that is above the piston surface to get a better idea of exactly how deep they are, but I would estimate about 1mm at the deepest.

1mm is a HUGE change in compression ratio, i would not use that piston, and given the fact that the valve heads are sitting in the cylinder, chances are the rod is slightly bent.

[skywalker15]

I wouldn't use or repair that piston either, I'd at the minimum replace piston, rod and bearings but at that point you may as well put a fresh motor in as they are relatively cheap now used.

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[misterpepper]

The piston didn't move 1mm, the deepest part of the deepest dent is about 1mm. Yes, there will be a change in compression ratio after I remove the high spots from around the dents, but it will be insignificant. Ideally I'd replace the piston at least, if not all pistons, rings and bearings, but in order to drop the oil pan the block needs to come out, which I do not have the tools, nor talent for. There's a chance, maybe a high one, that the bottom end is toast and fails soon after I get it back together. If that happens I'll take it in and have the bottom end refreshed, or possibly swap in a newer motor. It's a big chance, but if I get lucky and the piston is okay then I save myself several thousand dollars. Even more when you consider that I will now never install a high flow cat or bigger intercooler.