FSI Fuel Injector Maintenance

[komseh]

I'm mirroring this post from another forum since not everyone goes there and I feel this information needs to be shared as widely as possible. There's scarce sources of information about fuel injectors affecting performance and driveability on these motors.

I'll start with my recent symptoms and the diagnosis that led me to cleaning the fuel injectors.

Symptoms:
Surging idle - Idle was constantly fluctuating
Rough cold start - The cold start cycle was extremely rough with RPMs approaching 2000

Other possible symptoms:
Engine misfire
Performance loss
Increased Fuel consumption
Engine damage - Possible in the event of a fully clogged or leaking injector. There have been a few documented cases of this.

Causes
In our cars the fuel injector heads are exposed to the combustion chamber so they can get carbon on/in them just like our intake valves. Fortunately the buildup is not near as dramatic as the on intake valves. However, when you have a tolerance of 1 micron any amount of carbon buildup can affect the injector flow in a big way.

When I had my injectors cleaned, the guy said he found sludge inside the injector filter baskets. I'm still not sure on the cause of that or if it should be expected on our injectors.

Diagnosis
Fuel trim data is a good place to start if you think your injectors might be clogged. Look at VCDS measuring block 032, which shows your long term fuel trims at idle and load. Short term fuel trim can be monitored in block 033.

A clogged fuel injector will inhibit optimal fueling in the motor. The ECU will see this lack of fuel over time using the O2 sensors and call for a permanent fuel trim correction. Looking at measuring block 032, a clogged fuel injector will cause a positive number to show up in the Partial field(Partial means at load). In my case it was showing between +5% and +6%. While these numbers are in spec, we really don't want to be running lean. Lean conditions are bad for engine performance and safety.

If you have positive long term fuel trim at load(block 032 Partial field), you can be fairly certain your fuel injectors are not flowing optimally if your car meets the following conditions:
Good O2 sensors - Bad O2 sensors can cause inaccurate fuel trim readings
Good fuel pressure on both banks - Check measuring blocks 103, 106, 140
No vacuum leaks - Check the Idle field in block 032, it should be slightly negative in a good condition.
Normal short term fuel trims - Your short term fuel trims need to be within +/- 10%.

Solutions
Clean your damn injectors! Like with soap and water dummy. I wish it was that easy.
You'll need to either:
Buy a new set of injectors, OEM part number 079906036D or Hitachi part number FIJ0008
Send your injectors off for cleaning, should be around $200 + shipping. Look for someone with an ASNU machine. I used https://www.racecityinjector.com/ but it's best to find one in your region to minimize shipping time.
If you opt to buy a new set you will minimize down time and have the option of reselling the old ones after having them cleaned.
If you want to optimize your fueling you could buy a batch of injectors and have them flow matched by the cleaning company. I think buying 12-16 of the Hitachi injectors from Rockauto and selling the unused ones would be the most economical way. Flow matching injectors just involves testing a set of them until you find 8 with flow rates within 2% of each other.

Here's a data sheet showing injector flow results before/after cleaning. Two of the injectors were pretty bad off. I'm guessing those were both in bank 1 in my case which is why my LTFT@load was at +6%.
https://i.imgur.com/osKG7wF.jpg

Conclusions
Please share data. I would like to see long term fuel trim snapshots from other RS4 owners - it only takes one minute to check. If you have any of the symptoms listed above, you should consider servicing or changing your fuel injectors during your next carbon clean. If you have a positive LTFT >10% on either bank you might not want to wait that long.

In my opinion, fuel injector maintenance should be integrated into the maintenance schedule for our cars. I think once every 40k miles or 2 carbon cleanings is more than sufficient, but I'll be monitoring my fuel trims to see at what point they start to degrade.

[komseh]

Reserved

[alexj87]

I recently had my injectors replaced while hunting down a misfire.

FWIW - FCP Euro seemed to have the lowest price on Injectors

and if you are in the northeast Marren Labs is one known place for injector testing/cleaning https://www.injector.com/

[komseh]

I recently had my injectors replaced while hunting down a misfire.

FWIW - FCP Euro seemed to have the lowest price on Injectors

and if you are in the northeast Marren Labs is one known place for injector testing/cleaning https://www.injector.com/

Did you buy the Hitachi or OEM from them?

[WinterRunner]

I don't think I"ve ever had this done, and after 86K miles, and 4 carbon cleans, I ought to look into it next go around...

[alexj87]

079906036D - OE Part #
079906036D - Hitachi Part #

I went with Hitachi, didnt feel like paying another 100 bucks for a box that says Audi

[komseh]

Did you buy the Hitachi or OEM from them?

Ah okay, well the Hitachis can be gotten for $57 per injector from Rockauto.

[komseh]

I don't think I"ve ever had this done, and after 86K miles, and 4 carbon cleans, I ought to look into it next go around...

Would you mind checking out your fuel trim numbers in VCSD and posting them here?

[alexj87]

Ah okay, well the Hitachis can be gotten for $57 per injector from Rockauto.

Son of a bitch! hahaha i guess this is what the forums are for, good on you!

[WinterRunner]

Would you mind checking out your fuel trim numbers in VCSD and posting them here?

If you give me a quick how to/write up on doing so, I'd be glad to. I don't even come close to utilizing the capabilities of vagcom, I'm ashamed to say....

[komseh]

No problem:

Ignition on, Engine off

1. From main screen, click "Select Control Module"

https://i.imgur.com/p8A4SP9.png


2. Select tab "Drivetrain" then "01-Engine"

https://i.imgur.com/BqdOlwB.png


3. Select "Meas. Blocks - 08"

https://i.imgur.com/tyVcEsc.png


4. Select the first Group field, enter 032 and click Go. The highlighted field labeled "Adaptation (Partial)" is the number we are concerned with, but go ahead and provide both numbers. The idle fuel trim is useful as well.

https://i.imgur.com/uNy1Iue.png


5. Go back to step 2, select "11-Engine II", and repeat steps 3 and 4 to get the reading from Bank 2. You can also view both banks at the same time by selecting controller "31-Engine other"

[ven0m]

Causes
In our cars the fuel injector heads are exposed to the combustion chamber so they can get carbon on/in them just like our intake valves. Fortunately the buildup is not near as dramatic as the on intake valves. However, when you have a tolerance of 1 micron any amount of carbon buildup can affect the injector flow in a big way.

Question

Wouldn't this be the result of normal wear over time and not carbon build-up?
How would the carbon come into an injector that is constantly under pressure and if it did, wouldn't the fuel that is going out of the injector push the carbon out again?

I understand that the seals etc. wear out over time, it is a normal wear and tare item, but blaming that on carbon build-up in our FSI's is a bit vague.


Just my 0,02$


ps: I'm going to a tuner for some dyno runs next week and to disable the vmax digital limiter. I'll ask him to also check the values for the injectors, I'm curious about the values and I'll compare them with the posted ones so I have a reference what good values are.

[nross33]

Would you mind checking out your fuel trim numbers in VCSD and posting them here?

Oops

[komseh]

Question

Wouldn't this be the result of normal wear over time and not carbon build-up?
How would the carbon come into an injector that is constantly under pressure and if it did, wouldn't the fuel that is going out of the injector push the carbon out again?

I understand that the seals etc. wear out over time, it is a normal wear and tare item, but blaming that on carbon build-up in our FSI's is a bit vague.


Just my 0,02$

You're correct. The primary buildup happens on the surface of the injector tip. This happens to all fuel injectors over time, but ours is accelerated because the injector tips are exposed to the heat and carbon of the combustion chamber.

As far as carbon buildup INSIDE of the injectors, that was more of a guess on my part. The person who cleaned my injectors said there was sludge inside of them and that this was unusual in his experience. Perhaps I ran into a bad tank of fuel or two, but I would be surprised if the fuel was dirty enough to cause sludge buildup. Then again, the car had 60k on it before I got it so who knows what the PO put in the fuel tank.

[WinterRunner]

I will do so, thanks for the rundown, should have results tomorrow.

[WinterRunner]

Would you mind checking out your fuel trim numbers in VCSD and posting them here?

So here is the consensus:

Bank 1: -2.0%, -1.2% Bank 2: -1.4%, -2.0%

Not entirely sure what these mean, but they seem pretty consistent among the 2 banks.... Please comment and enlighten me ;)

[komseh]

So here is the consensus:

Bank 1: -2.0%, -1.2% Bank 2: -1.4%, -2.0%

Not entirely sure what these mean, but they seem pretty consistent among the 2 banks.... Please comment and enlighten me ;)

Those numbers mean your motor is running slightly rich at idle and load on both banks. You couldn't ask for better fuel trim numbers imo.

I don't think you would benefit much from cleaning or replacing your injectors. Keep an occasional eye on the numbers though and let me know if any of them get near -/+ 5%.

[Flying Tomatoes]

A buddy of mine just did this a few months back on his car. He's around 110k miles. The before and after cleaning flow numbers were pretty astonishing.

[komseh]

Those numbers mean your motor is running slightly rich at idle and load on both banks. You couldn't ask for better fuel trim numbers imo.

I don't think you would benefit much from cleaning or replacing your injectors. Keep an occasional eye on the numbers though and let me know if any of them get near -/+ 5%.

WinterRunner, just wanted to add there's nothing wrong with preventative maintenance. It would be good to see before/after flow rates on injectors that aren't showing symptoms too.

[WinterRunner]

Thanks komseh, I'm glad they look good. Regarding preventative maintenance, other than cleaning or replacing, what is there to do for the injectors?

[komseh]

You could run some fuel system cleaner, but there is little benefit to that kind of product if you run a fuel with detergents like chevron or shell.

[WinterRunner]

I run the Audi FSI additive once every 4-5000 miles, and only use Shell, maybe that's why they look so good at my mileage...

[Quattrors4]

injectors can be replace for cheap now ,they are like 67$ a piece ,i just replace all off them for under 600$

[Jason@Addict]

Have been doing a lot of these lately - with good luck from just cleaning them as opposed to buying all new. The main thing is actually the spray quality in addition to the flow differences. I suspect it's mainly a result of carbon build up. Usually manifest itself in idle misfires that start to affect partial throttle and cruise. Easy enough fix and makes a big difference in start up roughness and overall smooth running at low loads. Can improve peak power as well depending on how bad they are.

[CoreyRS]

Have been doing a lot of these lately - with good luck from just cleaning them as opposed to buying all new. The main thing is actually the spray quality in addition to the flow differences. I suspect it's mainly a result of carbon build up. Usually manifest itself in idle misfires that start to affect partial throttle and cruise. Easy enough fix and makes a big difference in start up roughness and overall smooth running at low loads. Can improve peak power as well depending on how bad they are.

Jason, did you take any pictures? Im curious to see what they look like...but currently my laziness > curiosity :-)

[komseh]

Visually they will just have a thin layer of brown carbon on the tips.

[komseh]

I don't run them, but I believe Hitachi is the manufacturer for all of the injectors that fit the RS4. I'm not sure if the OEM branded ones go through any additional quality control, but that could be the difference. Or it could just be Audi pulling their normal pricing premium bullshit. I think several members run the Hitachis including alexj87 who posted earlier in this thread.

[FWP!]

There was somebody who started a thread about this very topic about a year ago, I can't find it. But he had charts provided to him by the company who reconditioned his OEM injectors, and they showed before/after differences and it was pretty nice looking. They were able to get them all matched within 2% IIRC. I've been searching and I can't find the thread, I was going to send mine in to the same shop he sent his the next time I do a carbon cleaning.

[komseh]

There was somebody who started a thread about this very topic about a year ago, I can't find it. But he had charts provided to him by the company who reconditioned his OEM injectors, and they showed before/after differences and it was pretty nice looking. They were able to get them all matched within 2% IIRC. I've been searching and I can't find the thread, I was going to send mine in to the same shop he sent his the next time I do a carbon cleaning.

Anyone with an ASNU machine should be able to generate those reports accurately . I added a picture of my report to the OP.

[RS4POWER]

There was somebody who started a thread about this very topic about a year ago, I can't find it. But he had charts provided to him by the company who reconditioned his OEM injectors, and they showed before/after differences and it was pretty nice looking. They were able to get them all matched within 2% IIRC. I've been searching and I can't find the thread, I was going to send mine in to the same shop he sent his the next time I do a carbon cleaning.

That thread was started on QW.

Here you are: (Car had ~105k miles, several injector cleaners introduced and italian tune-ups aplenty)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/BaddAss93TA/F7E15887-F6DA-4144-9A1C-E6F3DF2E417F_zps0fzkeo0w.jpg

[highPSI-S4]

Having an issue with the car now and don't want to throw money, was thinking injectors but it might be a combination of things. this is a rough summary of todays events.



1. Replaced Rear 02 Sensors with (2) new Bosch units for Emissions testings.
2. Drove around a lot so the car could adapt since I didn't know or could not find anything related to setting readiness on RS4's
3. 1 hr later car is ready for emissions testings
4. Car is backed up onto emission service station ramps and within seconds falls on its face
5. Tried starting the car, once car was level again and CEL popped on, pulled codes and got a code for N276 Malfunction.
6. After car started we cleared the codes and drove it, no issues.
7. Because of the codes we were going to have to drive around again to set readiness, but decided to Contact ROSS Tech instead with assistance on setting readiness manually.
8. ROSS Tech on the phone guiding me through the steps for setting readiness, everything going well. Basic Setting (Value 71) Emission Reduction = PASS
9. Next, Basic settings Value block (34) Lambda Control, with foot on the brake pedal, use other foot and press the accel pedal until 2K RPM and hold. (this is where the car acted up)
10. Car is stuttering and misfiring while trying to set readiness with a flashing CEL, so we back off the throttle.
11. Contacted Jimmy Bones for better VAGCOM assistance, and we were able to monitor misfires at idle and load.
12. Don't remember the block values but I was seeing constant misfires on cyl 5, 7, 8 with a count of like 300+ each cyl.
13. Initial thinking is injectors, Jimmy performed a Carbon clean on my car 5k miles ago with new plugs, and other parts. (Fuel Filter was replaced 1 1/2 wks ago)
14. thoughts?

[OscarMeyer]

Did you check the fuel pressure on the hp and lp pumps? Are you meeting requested values? If you are, then I would say it's your injectors.

[highPSI-S4]

Did you check the fuel pressure on the hp and lp pumps? Are you meeting requested values? If you are, then I would say it's your injectors.

Ahh, I thought I missed something. Thank you for that!

We did check the HP, LP, pumps and requested vs actual values. At idle requested vs actual was the same, with load applied Actual values and Requested value still matched.

[highPSI-S4]

So I went into the garage today to start the car, rough misfire during the cold start but no CEL. took out the VAGCOM to log and drove down the street still no misfires. once car was warmed up CEL started flashing and I counted 300+ misfires on CYL 5, 7, 8.



Here's my results from logging.




http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Logs_zpscj3h1tio.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Logs_zpscj3h1tio.png.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Bank1%20Eng%2001_zpsvwldmi1x.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Bank1%20Eng%2001_zpsvwldmi1x.png.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Bank2%20EngII_zpsl1h2yixt.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Bank2%20EngII_zpsl1h2yixt.png.html)

[Quattrors4]

So I went into the garage today to start the car, rough misfire during the cold start but no CEL. took out the VAGCOM to log and drove down the street still no misfires. once car was warmed up CEL started flashing and I counted 300+ misfires on CYL 5, 7, 8.



Here's my results from logging.






http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Logs_zpscj3h1tio.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Logs_zpscj3h1tio.png.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Bank1%20Eng%2001_zpsvwldmi1x.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Bank1%20Eng%2001_zpsvwldmi1x.png.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Bank2%20EngII_zpsl1h2yixt.png~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Bank2%20EngII_zpsl1h2yixt.png.html)

go to engine other and check idle and long term fuel trims and post it, block 32

[highPSI-S4]

I though maybe I didn't get a good screen shot, but looking again no values for Bank 2. I assume its a bad o2 on bank 2?


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/Bank%20Other_zpsnywfss3p.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/Bank%20Other_zpsnywfss3p.jpg.html)

[Quattrors4]

how many miles since you cleared r reset the ecus?

[highPSI-S4]

How many miles? No clue, codes are cleared every Time I use the Vagcom. So 5/6 times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quattrors4]

How many miles? No clue, codes are cleared every Time I use the Vagcom. So 5/6 times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
well you need to drive the car for a few miles 25 at least if its running of course and then check block 32
ecus needs time to adapt

[highPSI-S4]

Yeah, is running but I'm not gonna drive it.
Started the process of removing the injectors and sending them off to get cleaned and flow matched, also going to swap the coil packs to see if misfires follow to rule them out.

Also will add, it's be roughly 4k miles since carbon cleaning and the valves already have black gook all over them. I assumed it would be a little bit cleaner.

I'll post those pics later.

FYI, pulling the injectors was a pita, anyone have a good procedure for injector removal? I pried mine but didn't feel comfortable applying so much force?


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/13/33af6f7dfd60ef3b2b519b4faf753ceb.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quattrors4]

Yeah, is running but I'm not gonna drive it.
Started the process of removing the injectors and sending them off to get cleaned and flow matched, also going to swap the coil packs to see if misfires follow to rule them out.

Also will add, it's be roughly 4k miles since carbon cleaning and the valves already have black gook all over them. I assumed it would be a little bit cleaner.

I'll post those pics later.

FYI, pulling the injectors was a pita, anyone have a good procedure for injector removal? I pried mine but didn't feel comfortable applying so much force?


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/13/33af6f7dfd60ef3b2b519b4faf753ceb.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

just get new injectors ,hitachi 550$ for a set of 8 and they come with new seals

[Quattrors4]

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-fuel-injector-079906036d

[highPSI-S4]

I'd rather clean and flow match my OEM set. For something like injectors, I'm sticking with OEM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quattrors4]

I'd rather clean and flow match my OEM set. For something like injectors, I'm sticking with OEM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are oem ,it's just not stamped with the Audi logo
They work just fine

[komseh]

highPSI: If you have some stuck injectors you can spray them down with pb blaster and let them sit for an hour or so. Should loosen them up enough for you to pull them out by hand.

Vigo: Please remove your bad advice from this thread. Besides, they're way cheaper on rockauto.

[RichardG]

Looking to get my RS4 injectors cleaned. Anybody have any recommendations for getting them cleaned local to California? I'm on the Central Coast so South, LA area or North, SF area is okay. Looking for a quick turn around with before and after flow data. Planning to do another carbon clean while I have the manifold off, has been about 18K since last CC and now I'm getting the cold start misfire. Ran a couple cans of BG44K and it seemed to help as now I mainly have misfire on only cylinder 4. I was having it on several cylinders before using the BG44K.
I have tried swapping coil pack = no change. swapping spark plugs = no change. misfire stays on cylinder 4.

[highPSI-S4]

highPSI: If you have some stuck injectors you can spray them down with pb blaster and let them sit for an hour or so. Should loosen them up enough for you to pull them out by hand.

Vigo: Please remove your bad advice from this thread. Besides, they're way cheaper on rockauto.

Thanks Komseh!!

[komseh]

Looking to get my RS4 injectors cleaned. Anybody have any recommendations for getting them cleaned local to California? I'm on the Central Coast so South, LA area or North, SF area is okay. Looking for a quick turn around with before and after flow data. Planning to do another carbon clean while I have the manifold off, has been about 18K since last CC and now I'm getting the cold start misfire. Ran a couple cans of BG44K and it seemed to help as now I mainly have misfire on only cylinder 4. I was having it on several cylinders before using the BG44K.
I have tried swapping coil pack = no change. swapping spark plugs = no change. misfire stays on cylinder 4.

Well, ASNU had a list of companies with their machines on their website, but something has changed and it is no longer available. I would call them: http://asnuusa.com/index.php?route=information/contact

[highPSI-S4]

:UPADTE!!!

Quick recap, I was getting a crazy misfire count at idle on cyl 5, 7, and 8. 300+ every cycle, car drove fine, and during some testing before tearing the car down this would only happen when the engine was warm, no CEL or misfires on cold startup. It would only occur onc car got up to operating temps. So the decision was to take a look at the injectors.



After spraying the injectors with a little PB Blaster, I still had 3 that were seized. They eventually broke off and I took a chance and purchased (3) from Rockauto.com for $57.00 each These are not listed under RS4 but rather the R8.

There is only one physical difference I can tell, between the OEM Hitachi one I have and these. (top hole on ours has a plastic reducer grommet making the inlet hole smaller) I have comparison picture below. The Injector with the dirty brownish lower seals is the old injector (right side), and the injector with the clean white seals is the new one (left Side).

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/image2%202_zpsnoufb7qj.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/image2%202_zpsnoufb7qj.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0424_zps1qm4b2e5.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0424_zps1qm4b2e5.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0423_zpsfm4a6mdl.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0423_zpsfm4a6mdl.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0435_zpsemsdjfta.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0435_zpsemsdjfta.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0421_zps5sb8npun.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0421_zps5sb8npun.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0420_zpscifvpzvr.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0420_zpscifvpzvr.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/image1%203_zpsixbczeln.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/image1%203_zpsixbczeln.jpg.html)


I had all the Injectors sent out to Injector City to be cleaned and flow matched. When I got the injectors back they were nice and clean, and Injector City replaced all the bad seals. So if you have a place that replaces Seals do not buy them unless you need to.
I purchased a kit, because I need the Repair that includes the cage bracket. The seal kit was $30.00 each from FCP Euro.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0433_zpsucxu3sdg.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0433_zpsucxu3sdg.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0431_zpsvb6q3zwp.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0431_zpsvb6q3zwp.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0426_zpssfgcmsil.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0426_zpssfgcmsil.jpg.html)



Put the brackets on the injectors and put everything back together.


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0438_zps2u7j65fy.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0438_zps2u7j65fy.jpg.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0448_zpsbcvrping.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0448_zpsbcvrping.jpg.html)


http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/DSC_0449_zpsgzsamjrf.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/DSC_0449_zpsgzsamjrf.jpg.html)



Didn't take any final completion pictures. But the car is back together, took a couple cycles to turn over but she did. I let her warm-up and took the car for a small test drive. Everything appears to be in running order, I had VCDS on logging misfires and I had none, so I drove the car back home and let her sit over night. The next morning same thing, I started her up and took a drive, everything was running fine with no misfires or hiccups even after getting up to temp 90C in VCDS. Did a couple of rips up to 7K no problem car performed well! It appears the cleaning of the Injectors worked.

Mind you I have dead VA tags and still need to pass emission testing. So I tried to go in a set readiness through VCDS as I had previously tried unsuccessfully.


Throttle Body Adaptation (Channel 60) = PASS
EVAP Test (Channel 70,71) = PASS
Secondary Air Injection Test Channel 77) = PASS

Oxygen Sensor Test = fail, Basic setting channel 34

For some reason again my car doesn't like this, when bringing up the rpm's the car starts to stumble and I get a flashing CEL. So I backed off. I'm going to just drive the car and let it set readiness on the Oxygen sensor on it's own since everything else has already passed.

After trying to set readiness I went back to logging misfires and drove home, I think I had 5 misfires pop up on Cyl 5 but that's it. Car still drives fine. I'll report back later with any new findings and emissions status.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/image1%204_zpsuqy5m96l.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/image1%204_zpsuqy5m96l.jpg.html)

[FWP!]

Bumping this thread. Decided to get my injectors cleaned and flow matched, I was able to remove 6 without much trouble, but ruined the last 2 trying to get them out. They were all but welded in there and I had to use a slide hammer to get them out.

So I went ahead and bought two of those Hitachi injectors mentioned in the original post, $129 shipped from Rockauto via next day air. I have the other 6 at a nearby shop that does direct injector cleaning and flow matching, they're getting them cleaned and ready so that I can bring them the two new ones and make sure all 8 get matched. Looking forward to getting this done, hopefully be back up and running by Friday afternoon.

[skhan91]

is this something that should be done in between carbon cleaning ?

[komseh]

highPSI, thanks for the details on your fuel injector adventure. Did you end up resolving your symptoms?

FWP, looking forward to your results, hope it improves some of your symptoms

shkan, my recommendation is to do this during a carbon clean once every 2-3 carbon cleans or 40-60k miles. The fuel injectors are accessible once the intake manifold is off, so it's an ideal time to remove them for replacement or cleaning.

[skhan91]

highPSI, thanks for the details on your fuel injector adventure. Did you end up resolving your symptoms?

FWP, looking forward to your results, hope it improves some of your symptoms

shkan, my recommendation is to do this during a carbon clean once every 2-3 carbon cleans or 40-60k miles. The fuel injectors are accessible once the intake manifold is off, so it's an ideal time to remove them for replacement or cleaning.

makes sense! my injectors are only 10k km but i ll get em cleaned next Carbon clean!

[highPSI-S4]

Update:

So after the install the misfires were laid to rest, I still was unable to set readiness. I drove the car around for a bit and re-checked everything via Vagcom and all parameters were green!



http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/VCDS_zpsxhxzv12n.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/VCDS_zpsxhxzv12n.jpg.html)



Took the car over to get emissions and passed with no issues. No sniff test, only OBD II scan.


Also I wanted to document how much Carbon had already started building up on the valves after a few thousand miles post CC. Not the best pictures but you get the idea.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/image1%205_zpsvu467sos.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/image1%205_zpsvu467sos.jpg.html)

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r764/VRS4Dog/image2%203_zpsodndik1h.jpg~original (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/VRS4Dog/media/image2%203_zpsodndik1h.jpg.html)



After about 2 weeks, I got the flashing CEL on a cold startup. I popped the hood and could hear a slight hiss sound which may have been the PCV. I didn't test it just opted to replace it instead. I'm now 3 weeks in and no issues at all, car runs great!!


So in all during CC and Post CC these items have been replaced or addressed. Obviously the mods don't matter just listing what I did while performing the maintenance.

Carbon Clean
JHM Intake Spacers
JHM 6 Rib
034 TQ Mount
OEM Spark Plugs
OEM Fuel Filter
Cleaned and flow matched injectors
Rear o2 sensors
PCV canister

[SQ RS4]

This thread is full of great information - thank you for contributing guys.

I am getting the CC done (along with a long list of other things) by JimmyBones next week and we will be sending the injectors to Race City Injectors to have them cleaned and flow matched. My car only has 39,500 miles on it, but figured it's best to have this done now.

Will update with results once it's all done.

Also having the following done:
Oil change
Spark Plugs
Air filter
Fuel filter
Trans oil
Diff oil
034 mounts (trans, torque, and engine)
Apikol Diff mount (red)
034 Rear sway bar
034 Rear end links
JHM Piggies
JHM Intake Spacers

[gesTTalt]

Do you also clean your fuel rail? I'll be getting my injectors back tomorrow, but don't want to install on dirty fuel rails

My plan is to soak the rails with carb cleaner, then manually scrub, rinse with brake cleaner and use an air compressor to clear inside and repeat as necessary.

[highPSI-S4]

Do you also clean your fuel rail? I'll be getting my injectors back tomorrow, but don't want to install on dirty fuel rails

My plan is to soak the rails with carb cleaner, then manually scrub, rinse with brake cleaner and use an air compressor to clear inside and repeat as necessary.

I didn't clean my fuel rail. The ports were fairly large, looked clean and unobstructed.

[djstardom]

I'm looking to replace my fuel injectors, and came across this thread and the info for the Rock Auto link. At roughly 40% cheaper than all other sources I'm seeing online, I just want to double check that these are working out well for folks. As mentioned in an earlier post, on Rock Auto's site, it comes up under the R8 instead of the RS4, but the part number #079906036D matches up, so all looks good...right? I'm not missing anything am I?

[Reggie]

You could run some fuel system cleaner, but there is little benefit to that kind of product if you run a fuel with detergents like chevron or shell.

I have run BG44K (Audi Shops have it) and though I noticed a difference on my B5 A4 I never noticed any difference on my 08 RS4 - but it is the best gas/injector treatment out there. Will do nothing for the need for carbon clean but I like to think it does help keep the injectors running.

[NYC_Legacy]

Back from the dead. I just wanted to get some input from fellow owners.

Bank1. -1.5%(idle) -2.0% (partial)

Bank2. -.08%(idle) -4.3% (partial)

Bank 2 is what has me concerned. Although, my cold starts are a bit rough spike to about 1k a hair more then calm down after a few seconds I think it's partly to blame on my P&P intake manifold/flap delete. Are these numbers I should be concerned about? Anyone else have experience with BG44K? Thanks in advance!


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[CoreyRS]

Just logged mine over the weekend at 92XXX miles

~Bank 1: -1.0%, -1.5%
~Bank 2: -1.4%, -3.9%

A little rich, but I don't think I will change injectors yet. I also don't use any fuel additive. I will try some and see if that makes any difference in flow.

[bendilzerian]

Related question here guys, I know this thread is old, but I think it'll add to the info here in the thread.

Just wanted to confirm: I'm buying all new injectors for my RS4, do I need to have them flow-matched? And do I need to buy the seal kits? I am hoping new ones would come all pre-assembled but want to be sure.

Also; anybody know where to get an injector puller from at a decent price? Or have one I could rent? [:d]

[MugelloB7RS4]

Related question here guys, I know this thread is old, but I think it'll add to the info here in the thread.

Just wanted to confirm: I'm buying all new injectors for my RS4, do I need to have them flow-matched? And do I need to buy the seal kits? I am hoping new ones would come all pre-assembled but want to be sure.

Also; anybody know where to get an injector puller from at a decent price? Or have one I could rent? [:d]

You don't need to have the injectors flow matched if new. The seal kits are a good idea only for the metal buckets that help retain the injector in the head. If you're careful pulling the old ones out they may be reusable, but if you're doing all the work already, you don't want to cut corners only to have a new injector not seat right. I would just get them and do them. That's what I did over the last winter.

I ordered the FSI injector puller set from ECS. It has everything you need and more to replace our injectors.

[bendilzerian]

You don't need to have the injectors flow matched if new. The seal kits are a good idea only for the metal buckets that help retain the injector in the head. If you're careful pulling the old ones out they may be reusable, but if you're doing all the work already, you don't want to cut corners only to have a new injector not seat right. I would just get them and do them. That's what I did over the last winter.

I ordered the FSI injector puller set from ECS. It has everything you need and more to replace our injectors.

Sheesh...at 40 bucks a pop that's almost as much as I spent on the injectors themselves...what robbery. I got my injectors for 450 shipped. They are supposed to be reusable?

As for the puller kit... there's a lot on amazon, but this is the one you got? I saw it but says 2.0T I suppose it's all the same though: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/fuel-injector-puller-installer-tool-kit/p-695a/

[MugelloB7RS4]

^ Yea thats the same kit. To be honest I only needed it for one injector, the others came out by hand. I just didn't want to run into issues with the top end of the motor apart.

As for the service kit, I agree. The metal tabs are all you need. Provided they aren't damaged when you pull the old ones out they can be reused, but kinda the same boat, I didn't want to have any issues and I didn't want to put everything back together to find I had an issue with one. I'm a firm believer of do it once and do it right. You might get lucky and need no puller and no metal buckets, or you may need them on all 8. Its tough to say.

I would try and look and see if you can find them cheaper. My local Audi dealer gives an Audizine discount and I think they were around $25 canadian which is less than $20 USD

[bendilzerian]

Thanks for the info man!

I'll get the puller kit, and pray my buckets come out okay.

If not, I bought one genuine OEM as cheap as I could find on fleabay for 25 bucks. For comparison, I ordered an off-brand one also, and then figured what the hell and got two cheap-o chinese shit brand ones from ebay as well. I figure when they all show up, I can compare and see what's what with them. I'd be worried about the gaskets and stuff from off-brand, but I'm just after the metal bowls. I'll check it all out though, hell might be able to help some other guys out from having to spend so much on these...

Thanks for the tips

[koolade9]

It's really a matter of how much corrosion the engine (heads) have seen. If you have a northern car, chances are you may have a couple of them (or all) that will need the puller to get them out clean. Ben, your engine is super-clean, it wouldn't surprise me if all of yours come straight out with no issue.

[bendilzerian]

It's really a matter of how much corrosion the engine (heads) have seen. If you have a northern car, chances are you may have a couple of them (or all) that will need the puller to get them out clean. Ben, your engine is super-clean, it wouldn't surprise me if all of yours come straight out with no issue.

Thanks Blake, guess I'll have the tool and a few spare buckets just in case!

[germanstyle]

Great thread with lots of info, thanks guys

[Al Sline]

Hey Legacy to get the readings of your injectors on VCDS you used code 13 to measure it?

Thanks


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[highPSI-S4]

If anyone is in need of injector seals I still have a set that I would like to get rid of.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180918/596a2a991fc88aa4b7df0ee5d9722256.jpg


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[Brett Wilson]

Thanks for the info man!

I'll get the puller kit, and pray my buckets come out okay.

If not, I bought one genuine OEM as cheap as I could find on fleabay for 25 bucks. For comparison, I ordered an off-brand one also, and then figured what the hell and got two cheap-o chinese shit brand ones from ebay as well. I figure when they all show up, I can compare and see what's what with them. I'd be worried about the gaskets and stuff from off-brand, but I'm just after the metal bowls. I'll check it all out though, hell might be able to help some other guys out from having to spend so much on these...

Thanks for the tips

Hi bendilzerian, how did you got with the buckets?

I've just bought a 2007 A6 that I'm going to be putting new injectors in and wondering whether there is any real difference between the genuine seal kits and the cheap ones. Just for the retainers not the actual seals.

[Chandler]

Hi bendilzerian, how did you got with the buckets?

I've just bought a 2007 A6 that I'm going to be putting new injectors in and wondering whether there is any real difference between the genuine seal kits and the cheap ones. Just for the retainers not the actual seals.

I believe you are in the wrong sub forum mate! - either way, the injector clips off of flea-bay are fine - they work just as well and will save you quite a bit of $$ over OEM. In fact, the OEM price is ridiculous compared to the injector cost.

[bendilzerian]

Hi bendilzerian, how did you got with the buckets?

I've just bought a 2007 A6 that I'm going to be putting new injectors in and wondering whether there is any real difference between the genuine seal kits and the cheap ones. Just for the retainers not the actual seals.


I believe you are in the wrong sub forum mate! - either way, the injector clips off of flea-bay are fine - they work just as well and will save you quite a bit of $$ over OEM. In fact, the OEM price is ridiculous compared to the injector cost.

+2 The ebay/knockoff buckets and clips are just fine. They turned out to be exactly the same. I still have them and will use if I need in the future. All my buckets were in good enough shape to be reused. But yes, I wouldn't recommend using their o-rings. For a cheaper way to get o-rings, I'd take the real OEM ones to a legit hardware store in your area and get some that are the exact dimensions. At least then you know you're getting some decent quality. But if you buy new injectors which I'd recommend just doing anyway for peace of mind, they will come with o-rings already attached.

For the RS4 at least they did. Rock auto had the cheapest price and theres usually a discount code floating around the interwebs

[CoreyRS]

Bump for any new info on this issue.

I started getting a P0171 code on bank 1 where I now have high long-term fuel trims ~15%.

[mad70sx]

Quick question... Anyone know if the measuring blocks in VagCom for the FI checks are the same for the S4 BHF engine as for the RS4 BNS engine? I've never been able to find a good guide for VagCom checks on the BHF.

[CoreyRS]

Bump for any new info on this issue.

I started getting a P0171 code on bank 1 where I now have high long-term fuel trims ~15%.

Reporting back that air was leaking around my injectors, new seats solved the issue. Replaced the injectors as well, so I can’t fully decouple the 2.


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[tjb616]

+2 The ebay/knockoff buckets and clips are just fine. They turned out to be exactly the same. I still have them and will use if I need in the future. All my buckets were in good enough shape to be reused. But yes, I wouldn't recommend using their o-rings. For a cheaper way to get o-rings, I'd take the real OEM ones to a legit hardware store in your area and get some that are the exact dimensions. At least then you know you're getting some decent quality. But if you buy new injectors which I'd recommend just doing anyway for peace of mind, they will come with o-rings already attached.

For the RS4 at least they did. Rock auto had the cheapest price and theres usually a discount code floating around the interwebs

Does anyone have a current source for the injector clips mentioned here?

Thanks,