Motor Swap P0688 & P0341 codes - Read Alot - Tried Alot - Car still dead HELP!!

[Curtis H.]

My name is Curtis and I really really really need your help.

Ok lets start at the beginning.
Did a motor swap on my B6 2002 A4 1.8T.

My first mistake was hooking the power and ground straps up wrong at the starter. As you can imagine got some
big sparks and hot cables when attempting to hook up the battery. Did some research and figured that out - All
leads are correct and no huge sparks anymore.

After that I got the motor to run - VERY SMOOTH. The alternator bearings were making a crap load of noise and
the battery light on the dash was soon to follow. It was an easy start up with no CEL's. I allowed the smoke
show from engine assembly lube to die down and then shut it down. When I tried to start it again, it would not
start. I read the codes and got two codes that people have asked you about 100 times:

- P0688 - ECM relay issue
- P0341 - Camshaft position sensor

I took the cam position sensor out and just tried scrapping the face of the magnet to see if anything would happen.
It fired right up again and ran VERY smooth once again. I shut it down and attempted to start it right away, and it just sat
there and cranked, never turning over again.

So, I was hoping for a quick solve to the issue after my research.


- I checked the coil pack wires and they were not in the best of shape but had no evidence of arcing just some
cracked wire insulation. I spent some time carefully scraping small amounts of oxidation and applying
electrical tape to the small exposed sections of wires just so they would not make contact with others.
(Remember after the motor install I had on very successful startup.)

- I checked fuse #29 and its perfect.

- I have read so many of the threads you have participated in with people and this issue. Three of five
very helpful threads ultimately ended with the guys towing their cars to shops and finding the timing
belt gear on the end of the crank broke the keyway off the inside of the gear. Yesterday I bit the bullet and
ripped the front of the car apart to check timing.....It was PERFECT.....crank and cam. I continued and
found the timing gear keyway was in perfect shape. Since I had the part I replaced it with the new one
and rebuilt the car.

- Yes, I have had water in the ECM box in the past (one year ago). There were no issues present at the time
as a result of the water's presence and had none after I punched a quick hole in the bottom for drainage
and never saw the issue again. Thought I would put some effort toward the P0688 code. So (with the battery
disconnected) I removed all three relays under the ECM. There was a lot of corrosion but NO burns or
evidence of a violent relay failure.

As I understand the black #219 is the is the fan relay (fan not coming on when the key is out of the car).
My grey #373 is for the fuel pump and I can hear the fuel pump prime when it's suppose to and I have
no idea what black #395 does.

- I took some time to wire-brush the terminals and reinstall. Now I have my biggest problem yet.
-------The car wont even crank-------- 12.3v on the battery and it wont crank. I hit the key, the fuel pump
primes and then nothing. I took the relays back out and opened them up. #219 was a mess so swapped
it with one the looked a lot better inside and #373 (fuel) was working so I left it. ---- Same thing, wont crank.

- I read in another thread that someone solved this issue with swapping the "voltage reduction relay." I did a small
test by turning my wipers on full and attempting to start the car. Of course they stopped when they should.
So that's not it either.

It would seem a pretty odd coincidence to suspect that my starter or starter relay went bad at the same time I
decided to remove these relays.

I really need your help.
Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[headbang]

Anyone feel free to PM me taking all suggestions

[Let it snow]

Looking at the relays under the ECM the last one on the right is your starter interlock relay. If that is bad starter will not activate. The relay to the left of that is your ECM relay and also called the fan relay, if that is bad you will also have a no start condition but it will turn over if just that relay is bad. On the side of the relays there is a wiring diagram. Remove the relay and test to see if the relay is getting power when you turn the key.

[Curtis H.]

Thanks for the reply "Let it snow."

I just hopped off the phone with the dealer as I was reading your reply... They and you confirm the function of the relay all the way to the right #395 controlling voltage to the immobilizer. I am purchasing that relay and the one to the left #219 which has been quoted ECM power and fan power ......... I will swap them out to see if anything changes.

Thanks again
Curt

[Curtis H.]

- Ok.... relay 219 and 395 swapped out with brand new units from the dealer ...... same condition car will not even crank much less turn over.

- after the relays were replaced I made sure to hit the unlock button on the key fob because all this would really suck if it was just that.
key fob communicates with car just fine right after the battery is hooked up. No issues there.

[headbang]

[Let it snow]

Put a meter on the battery and try to start the car. What does it do? Also remove the starter relay and check voltage at the input side when trying to start. This will eliminate the starter switch and clutch/transmission switch. You may have a dead starter or a weak battery because of you failing alternator.

[Curtis H.]

I was definitely thinking along those lines - and I will check everything you said.

- This is what confuses me, when I attempt to start it...
A. Key on
B. All dash lights come up as they should and fuel pump primes
C. When I hit the start position its as if I did not. Nothing and I mean nothing happens. Like there is no draw of power at all.


Lights don't dim, nothing I mean nothing happens and its all JUST after pulling those relays which are now new.
Will check everything you said when I get out of work.

I will also switch the battery with the one in my S4 to check that off the list as well.
Thanks man

[jonan]

FWIW, my car wouldn't crank or turnover when my alternator failed, the doors would lock/unlock but it wouldn't crank or start...

i replaced my alt and battery at the same time and was good to go...


- Ok.... relay 219 and 395 swapped out with brand new units from the dealer ...... same condition car will not even crank much less turn over.

- after the relays were replaced I made sure to hit the unlock button on the key fob because all this would really suck if it was just that.
key fob communicates with car just fine right after the battery is hooked up. No issues there.

[headbang]

[Let it snow]

FWIW, my car wouldn't crank or turnover when my alternator failed, the doors would lock/unlock but it wouldn't crank or start...

i replaced my alt and battery at the same time and was good to go...

Yes low voltage definitely will not engage the starter. Try jumping the car first. The starter is on its own circuit. If that circuit is not working because of bad starter switch, clutch switch or fried starter. The fuel pump will run but of course the ECM does not see engine rotation. With your situation it very well could be a voltage problem from your dying alternator or a dead starter due to miss wiring.

[jonan]

definitely do this, at first i thought it was just my battery so i replaced it; unforunately, my new battery was dead six months later because the alternator wasn't charging it...jumped the battery then went to autozone and they checked to see if the alternator was holding a charge, it wasn't...i bought a re-manufactured alternator on ECS and sent them back my core when i installed the one i purchased.

at least autozone gave me credit for that battery towards the second battery i had to purchase...


Yes low voltage definitely will not engage the starter. Try jumping the car first. The starter is on its own circuit. If that circuit is not working because of bad starter switch, clutch switch or fried starter. The fuel pump will run but of course the ECM does not see engine rotation. With your situation it very well could be a voltage problem from your dying alternator or a dead starter due to miss wiring.

[Curtis H.]

Of course I forgot to mention through all this testing I have been bench charging the battery after each night to start off with a full charge the next day.

[Curtis H.]

However, gonna swap the battery from my S4 (a known good battery) and see if that makes a difference

[Curtis H.]

Reading over everything I forgot to write that after the alt was making noise I replaced it with a new unit as well.

[Let it snow]

Reading over everything I forgot to write that after the alt was making noise I replaced it with a new unit as well.

Sounding more like a bad starter or starter circuit.

[old guy]

Put a meter on the battery and try to start the car. What does it do? Also remove the starter relay and check voltage at the input side when trying to start. This will eliminate the starter switch and clutch/transmission switch. You may have a dead starter or a weak battery because of you failing alternator.

This ↑ And if you have power to the relay run a jumper across the relay in/out sockets to insure power to the starter. If you have power to the starter and it doesn't crank you have found the problem.

[Curtis H.]

ok... so last night I swapped the battery from my S4 and got no change.
So the battery I was using was ok.

I checked voltage at the battery when attempting to start the car and there was no drop in voltage.

I checked the starter and had 12 volts there.
When I had my buddy try and start it there was no voltage drop either.


So here is what I'm worried about guys. When I get the car to crank I will effectively be starting from
square one again. Remember I had the car cranking but not starting.
So for the purposes of this thread lets pretend the starter I ordered last night is in the car and its cranking and not turning over as it will more than likely do.

After all I have changed does anyone have any other ideas.
To take it back to the old school, I have:

Good Timing
Good Fuel
No Spark - Coils are new, plugs are new (torqued to 20 lbs.) Wires to coil packs are no the best but not horrible and fuse #29 is not blown.

any ideas???

[Let it snow]

The starter always has 12 volts to the motor. Did you have it at the solenoid? After you get the car cranking/ starter movement then you can further diagnose the problem. With the starter wrongly wired you may have damaged the ECM. Also it could be one of the engine management fuses icluding the one in the ECM box. Get that thing cranking and go from there.

[Curtis H.]

ok so I'm feeling a little not so smart right now...!!!
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/Starter_1.JPG
In this pic
The power wire I tested was the one at the very top which as you just described, always has 12 volts.
So you are saying that I should take the solenoid connector off (the one to the left), stick the probe in there and see if I get 12v when the key turned?

I know this is getting remedial but I have built a lot of cars and have never had this level of issue with a single one.
Its honestly luck, and mine has truly run out with this bitch.

[Let it snow]

Hang in there you'll get it. The large wire has constant voltage. The small wire should have 12 volts when you turn the key to start. This energizes the starter solenoid.

[Curtis H.]

Like I said remedial.

I built the motor for this car and it ran like butter.

Now I'm here asking you about voltage readings

[headbang]

I will read the correct wire tonight the correct way and post results.

Thanks man

[old guy]

Once you get the starter sorted out we can address the no spark situation. Check your engine management fuses. You mentioned that you checked fuse 29. There are four of them (29, 32, 34 and 43). Check each fuse for continuity by setting the meter to resistance and probing both side of the fuse. If you have continuity then check for voltage. Set the meter to volts and check from either side of the fuse to ground. You should see 12V.

Fuses 29 and 43 should have 12V with the key turned on. Fuses 32 and 34 will only power up when the engine is being cranked over to start or the engine is running. Once this is confirmed we can move elsewhere.



http://www.agcoauto.com/content/images/electrical/testing_electrical_check_fuse_lug.jpg

[Curtis H.]

Well guys .... I got my hands on a new starter and installed it an hour ago...... do I really need to say it .....no change.
The only good thing about it is it takes away the possibility of a bad solenoid and bad starter. Off the list, plus I wanted a new one anyway.

After installing the starter I checked the correct wire going to the starter solenoid .... it has 0 v constant and 0 v when the key is turned.
The main power wire is showing 12.8 constant all the time so I know there is power down there.

so I need to know from you guys all the possibilities that would stop power from traveling through that wire to the solenoid.
Cause that's where I am at this point.

- starter switch and clutch/transmission switch
- anything else.



OLD guy thanks a bunch for your input. I will check fuse #29 and 43 right now for integrity, then with the key on to see if I have 12v.
thanks man.

Will update.

[Curtis H.]

Integrity of fuse #29 and 43 are good

key switched on, have 12 v at both fuses respectively.

Will now check integrity attempt to start the car checking #32 and 34.

[Curtis H.]

ok ..... so #32 and #34 integrity is good they are not blown.

When attempting to start the car :

#32.. Fist try had a momentary blip to 12v then nothing (0 v ) then tried it again... 0v.
#34...Was constant 12v the entire time. Key out, key in, switch on, attempting to start. Always read exactly the same.

Could that alone be a problem? Old guy, In your post you said 32 and 34 should only power up during start up.... does this tell you anything bad about #34?

and yes I checked both sides of the fuse during all tests just to be sure.

[Let it snow]

Remove your interlock relay. On the side of the relay it has a diagram with the terminals and there functions. 2 terminals are the power going to your starter if the relay closes. The other 2 terminals are the ignition switch/clutch switch input. So when you turn the ignition switch on it sends 12 volts to the relay and closes it which then sends power to the starter solenoid. So with relay removed test those 2 terminals when you turn the ignition on. Also as old guy mentioned you can jumper the load side and this will power your starter to eliminate that. Don't forget to put it in park/neutral.

[old guy]

I believe you have a stuck/bad relay somewhere. Fuse #34 should only be under power with the engine cranking or running. It should not be under power otherwise. I just went out and verified again.

[Curtis H.]

Let it snow.... where is the interlock relay? Your explanation is perfect.... I would like to get that relay out and test then possibly replace. I like taking things off the list.

Old Guy.... as your statement is true what would allow current to constantly be present .... what relay would you likely fault...... which would you go to first to check?

[old guy]

"The Relays are in the Electronics box. In the intake plenum in front of the windshield on the left (driver's side). Relay #4 is the starter relay. If you jump 12v to the #5 terminal of the relay connector the starter should crank."
Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/audi/893jk-audi-a4-car-didn-t-crank-once-ran.html#ixzz3mDPhHnoQ

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TH/THEAUDIDOCTOR/2014-02-07_130109_starter_relay_4_04_a4.gif

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TH/THEAUDIDOCTOR/2014-02-07_130201_starter_relay_04_a$.jpg

Since you had previously dealt with water in the ECU box I would simply start by unplugging the relays in the box one at a time while checking voltage at fuse #34. Once you pull the defective relay the voltage will go to 0.

[Let it snow]

Starter interlock relay is under the ECM last one on the right. I believe you changed it already. You mentioned it as having to do with the immobilizer. It does not. The only function of this relay is for the starter. One side input from ignition/clutch switch, other side power to you starter solenoid.


Edit. Dam old guy you are quick :)

[Curtis H.]

Thanks guys I will try your suggestions right away

Thanks

[Curtis H.]

ok.... so I checked out the starter interlock relay.

The relay did not click into place like the other ones.
So I broke down the connector and tightened the female ends to make better contact with the male blades that stick out of the relay.
Nothing happened.

[Curtis H.]

I have not lost hope and feel like I'm very close to solving this.

I just need a list of all the switches and relays involved in getting power to the solenoid.
I know I'm close.


I'm thinking the clutch pedal switch may have gone bad. It has been in service for 189K.
How do I test it to cross it off the list?

[old guy]

Check to see if you have a 12V supply to the relay socket. If you do then jumper it to the output side of the socket and see if it will activate the starter.

For the clutch lower position switch just unplug the switch and jumper across the socket.

[Let it snow]

This has been said. But I will say it again. Remove the starter interlock relay. On old guys diagram terminal 1 and 2 on J434 (interlock relay) should have 12 volts when you turn ignition to start. If you do this eliminates all the input switches.

[Curtis H.]

ok.....

Now that I just looked how to jump out a relay. I will try this tomorrow morning.

Do I need to ever put the relay back in if it fixes the issue?

[old guy]

ok.....

Now that I just looked how to jump out a relay. I will try this tomorrow morning.

Do I need to ever put the relay back in if it fixes the issue?

Yes you do. It either means the relay is bad or the signal to the relay isn't getting there.

[old guy]

Yes you do. It either means the relay is bad or the signal to the relay isn't getting there.

Edit: When you jump the relay the starter should engage.

[Curtis H.]

so:
- I need to have the key in the on position
- The car in neutral
- Then just complete the jump

or

- I need to have the key in the on position
- Someone in the car turning the key to the start position (with foot on clutch)
- Then complete the jump

which one?

[old guy]

First option. When you jump the relay you are bypassing the input from the ignition switch and you are also bypassing the clutch pedal interlock switch.

[Let it snow]

[QUOTE=old guy;11056637]"The Relays are in the Electronics box. In the intake plenum in front of the windshield on the left (driver's side). Relay #4 is the starter relay. If you jump 12v to the #5 terminal of the relay connector the starter should crank."
Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/audi/893jk-audi-a4-car-didn-t-crank-once-ran.html#ixzz3mDPhHnoQ

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TH/THEAUDIDOCTOR/2014-02-07_130109_starter_relay_4_04_a4.gif

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TH/THEAUDIDOCTOR/2014-02-07_130201_starter_relay_04_a$.jpg

Since you had a voltage crossed at the beginning of this we can rule out burnt wires by testing at your starter interlock relay. The test is easy. Remove relay. Touch voltmeter probes to terminal 1 which is negative and terminal 2 which is positive. Turn key with clutch in. If you do have 12 volts that circuit is good. No volts then remove probe from 1 and place on battery ground. Turn ignition on if you do not have 12 volts then you ignition switch or ignition switch wiring is bad. If you do have 12 volts then your clutch switch or clutch switch wiring is bad.

[old guy]

Much better than my suggestion. Check the engagement circuit rather than force the starter to engage. We already know the starter has power.

Edit: Here's a verbal description of what you are testing:

When you turn the ignition switch the voltage path flows from the Ignition Switch (18) to the Starter Relay (J434). The left side of the Starter Relay (terminals 3 and 5) are the open contact points. The right side (terminals 1 and 2) allow power to flow through the electromagnetic coil in the relay that when energized will pull the contacts between terminals 3 and 5 together to send power to the starter solenoid (B). In order for the electromagnetic coil to be energized the current must continue the pathway from terminal 1 to ground (238). To get there the clutch interlock switch (F194) has to be closed.

Follow Let it Snow's instructions to check out the control side of the relay. If the control side checks out then move to the energized side of the relay. Terminal 3 should have 12v power available when you turn the key to start just as terminal 2 should have 12v power. If the control side checked out then it's one of two things. They relay contacts aren't being pulled together by the electromagnetic coil or the wiring from terminal 5 to the starter solenoid is defective. You can check that wire by using your Ω meter to check continuity from terminal 5 to ground.

You can also pop the cover off the relay and manually depress the contact points together and see if the starter activates.

Good luck!

[Curtis H.]

ok.... guys

I did a one of thing wrong that led me to buy another part.

So after reading the posts from you guys just now I realized I checked the starter interlock relay connector improperly.
I put my volt meter on terminal 1 and 2 (the two main terminals) and tried to start the car. I got these little blips of something but never went above 1v. 0v the whole tome basically.
That was last night.

So with that experience in mind this morning I went to Pep Boys an grabbed an ignition switch.
No issues installing it ...... and of course NOTHING!!!!!!

So now after reading the posts I put the negative lead of my volt meter on the battery and now properly tested the interlock relay connector.

I am very glad to say that when attempting to start the car terminals 1 and 3 show 12 solid volts.
The other terminals do not. This right here has to be getting me close to the answer.

So questions:

- Because I have 12v when the key is turned (to start) at the IR connector That should rule out bad :
A. Ignition switch
B. Clutch switches
C. Bad wiring to IR
D. The IR itself - its new from the dealer 2 days ago and shows no signs of shorting out with all this testing.

- Does this in anyway rule out the ECM as an issue?

What's next, Do I just buy the starter circuit harness from ECS and call it a day like WTF ??!!

[old guy]

Having 12v to terminals 2 and 3 indicates that you have a good ignition switch. but you still have to complete the circuit to ground from terminal 2, through the electromagnetic coil, terminal 1 and clutch interlock switch to activate the relay. Go back and re-read the last two posts and it should help you eliminate the clutch position switch as a factor. Post back if you still have questions.

[Curtis H.]

ok... I'm glad that having 12v at the IR connector means I'm good on the ignition switch.

But my question is don't both clutch position switches have to be functioning properly in order to get power to the interlock relay connector?
I understand that I have to get power through the switch (then measure its output) in order to determine that it is fine but if I have correct power to the correct terminals in the connector and the relay is BRAND new - what's after that?
Where does the power go next?

I know you guys have supplied me with the diagram but a little help reading it would be awesome.
I am great with engine building, and as you can see still in my electronic infancy (not afraid to admit).

Never had a car I didn't build, plug in and go - this thing is fuckin killin me... but I wont give up. It ran perfect twice already no reason it should not again.

[old guy]

Maybe I missed it but it wasn’t clear to me that you actually checked the clutch interlock switch. If you followed Let it Snow’s suggestion properly you can rule out the clutch interlock. When you turned the ignition switch to start you confirmed 12v power to terminal 2.

Next set your probes on terminals 1 and 2 and turn the ignition switch to start with the clutch pedal depressed. If the clutch interlock switch is functioning properly you will see 12V. If not either the interlock is defective or the clutch switch wiring is bad.

Once you have confirmed the clutch interlock is working you will know that you have a complete circuit through the relay. You have already confirmed power to terminal 3. Assuming the relay contacts are being pulled together when you activate the electromagnetic coil (terminals 1 and 2) you should be sending control voltage from terminal 3 to terminal 5 which in turn powers up the starter solenoid.

If this isn’t happening you have a wiring problem between terminal 5 and the starter solenoid or for some reason the relay contacts are not being pulled together. (Bad relay? Wrong relay?)

You can check the wiring by setting your meter to Ohms resistance and checking from terminal 5 to ground. You should see continuity. If you have an open circuit you will need to address the wiring between terminal 5 and the starter solenoid.
Hope that helps!

[Curtis H.]

Yes.... I have 12v at terminal 2 when the key is in the start position and the clutch is depressed. :) Finally something positive and good.

Next, what you are describing about setting the volt meter probes to terminal 1 and 2 and attempting to start ( I did this and thought I was doing something wrong) I got 0v. (This led me to the ignition switch purchase.
However, when I followed "Let it Snow's" example I put the negative probe of my meter on the negative battery terminal and checked voltage on every
terminal in the connector, one at a time, when the they key was in the start position, two of the terminals read 12v and dropped to 0v appropriately when the key was released.
This led me to declare the clutch switches are doing their job as I assume I would not be able to get 12v at the connector at all if the clutch switches were bad.
Is this a correct assumption??

Next it sounds like I need to turn the connector around and test the output of terminal 5 (with the relay in ) to see if power is coming out at all. This will confirm a functioning relay and a continuity issue from terminal 5 to the solenoid.

I know I just repeated a lot, but sometimes you need to do that to drill it into your own head ...LOL

Thanks for the crazy good support so far !!

[Let it snow]

First stop buying parts before confirming they are bad. You have voltage at 2 to ground meaning your ignition switch is good. You do not have voltage at 2 to 1 because 1 is your ground that goes through the clutch switch. So this is open. Meaning the switch or wiring is bad. There are 2 clutch switches. The starter interlock switch has the electrical facing the front of the vehicle. Remove the connector and jumper it. If you have voltage at 2 to 1 you have a bad switch. If still no voltage it is the wires.

[Curtis H.]

LOL.....Yeah, I do buy a lot of shit.......LOL

I will jump that connector at lunch and see if I get 12v from 1 to 2 at the IR.

Thanks man

[Curtis H.]

Alright "Let It Snow" you're gonna be pissed but yes I purchased two clutch switches and got NOTHING !!! after the install.

I immediately started testing wires for voltage.
Finally I got 12v coming out of the SIR and I could feel the contact inside working in my hand.
Then I checked for continuity from the starter relay connector at the starter to the connector on the harness (the one half the distance of the whole harness). ALL good
Then I checked continuity from that point of the harness to the SIR (and through the relay when active ).... ALL good

Then I went back to the old starter and saw there was only one tab present for the relay connector to be placed.
The new one has fuckin 3.
I switch the fuckin' wire to one of the terminals on the other side and the bitch fired right up. Smooth as can be !!!!

[Curtis H.]

Oh no .....we're not done .... shit just got real.

Now the fuckin' ALT wont charge.
I checked continuity from the main wire on the back of the ALT to the positive lead on the battery. A perfect Beep.
When the car is running there is Nothing and I mean nothing 0v coming out of the back of this ALT.
And do I really need to say it, The ALT is new....lol

I took it out and went to AutoZone and it passed with a 14.3v output.

The only other connection on the back of the ALT is that two terminal but only one blue wire present connector.
Theorizing that that is some sort of signal wire that is not getting what it needs for some reason.

I need to know whats going on with that damn blue wire....!!!!

Thanks Guys!!

[old guy]

The blue wire is the exciter wire. When you turn the key to on it should provide a 12v signal to the alternator to initiate the charging once the alternator starts turning.

[Curtis H.]

Old Guy......glad to her from you man.

This is not a pic from my car but this is how my starter wires are hooked up and I believe the one circled in red is the one that
needs to be on the top terminal with the other 12v constant. Is this true?
As you will also see in this picture, this guy does not have the ground strap hooked to the motor bracket.... I do, that one is all set.
I just have a question on this one.
This should solve my ALT problem....What do you think??

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1123231423423423423423423423.jpg

[Let it snow]

Why are you looking at the starter if it is an alternator problem? As old guy said the alternator blue wire is the exciter wire. If it does not send 12 volts to the alternator it will not charge.

[Curtis H.]

Ok..... extremely fair question.
I'm looking at the starter harness wire connections because that independent (style) harness travels from the battery to the starter to the back of the alt. If I have it hooked up wrong the battery wont get a charge.

However I need my question answered about the large black wire in the picture circled in red.
Is that wire in the correct position or No?
Given what I have read that wire needs to be hooked to the 12v constant terminal at the top of the solenoid.......I believe my current setup is wrong here, just need some verification .

Second, if I am not getting 12v through the blue exciter wire what fuses or switches do I need to check out so I can get this problem gone?

[Let it snow]

You said you have 0 volts at the alternator that is what is confusing. old guys diagram has starter wires and there locations. One is a spade terminal the other is an eyelet. Impossible to mix up.

[Curtis H.]

Yeah, 0v at the back of the ALT when the car is running. ALT is good 14.3v when bench tested.

Its not that the wires are confusing.....I need to know if they both go on the top 12v constant terminal on the starter solenoid. YES or NO ???
Check out the picture..... is it wrong or NO ??

[Let it snow]

Yes both heavy gauge wires go to that terminal.

[Let it snow]

Also if you wired your alternator positive to the ground (which it looks like they did in the picture) then your alternator is most likely fried.

[Curtis H.]

Thank you for that clear answer I was searching very hard to confirm.

I do think things will be just fine with the ALT seeming as though I have disconnected and reconnected that battery and now run the car about 12 times and then went to AZ and had it tested and it passed with flying colors.

I will get my wires hooked up properly and post to inform progress.

Thanks "Let It Snow"

[Curtis H.]

ok.......

Thanks to "Let It Snow" providing the right answer when so many and the internet
did not - my battery light is off and the ALT is charging at a strong 14.3v.

Answer : The two large black wires at the starter must be connected to the top terminal of the starter solenoid that runs a constant 12v.

Problem SOLVED !!!

[Curtis H.]

Now......two problems left and the car is 100%

VCDS says:

2 Faults Found:

16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
P0341 - 004 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent

Symptoms:
- Car takes 3 tries exactly to start every attempt
- However, timing advance and boost is responsive
- Does not seem to be in limp mode or lack performance (still taking easy, but the car isn't slow)

As we all know this is what started the original Holy Crap moment.

New Parts:
- Cam Position Sensor
- Timing Chain Tensioner
- Timing Belt Gear (Front of Crank) Timing is dead the on !!!

Thoughts Guys?

[old guy]

You need to figure out what's wrong with the camshaft position sensor. If you unplug the sensor altogether you have a 50/50 chance of the engine starting every time you turn the key. Without a signal the ECM has to "guess" when to fire the plugs. It's either correct or 180° out of phase. There is a lot of diagnostic info in this thread: Clicky click (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/625562-Fun-With-Cam-Chain-Adjusters-What-s-your-speculation)®

[Curtis H.]

Thanks for the thread "Old Guy". That was some great info.

- I spent the money and bought a new OEM chain tensioner when I built the motor (new light tan pads).
- I need to check what's going on with VCDS and check all the values in that thread of cam timing when the car is running.
- I am not getting the same codes you got about an advance or retard issue.
- I'm getting what feels to be proper acceleration so I believe the advance and retard are good and idle is smooth as hell.

How do you check oil pressure and what should it be?
I am getting the message on my dash display "oil pressure" but at very odd times and I can make it go away by stretching a gear out during acceleration (stays off then comes back at idle).
Thought it was a bad switch or sealant got in the way of the switch reading or grounding, but all were a no.
Oil level is at MAX Fill.

How do I check pressure?

[old guy]

Here is an outstanding resource: Clicky click (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/610203-1-8t-Oil-Pressure-Survival-Guide-and-troubleshooting-DIY)®

[Curtis H.]

Well,

The moral of the story kids is always listen to "Old Guy" and learn from my mistakes....
After clicking on "Old Guy's" provided link to a thread all about 1.8T oil supply and pressure I read the whole damn thing.
One item stuck out to me .... "Use the correct filter !!"

I know the 1.8T comes in a variety of cars an I was sick of the big Mac Truck oil filter size I had been using for years.
I looked up and found that other cars equipped with 1.8T's could also use (small) Fram TG2870A. I figured if it could work for
those 1.8T's why not mine? So I was happy with my new tiny filter until the oil pressure light beeped on my dash and I couldn't figure out why.

So I checked the garage for an old filter from the motor before this whole project started and compared the Big(old) and the Small(new).
The filter I am supposed to be using is Fram TG3569(Big). The filter is twice as heavy with an actual SPRING incorporated
in the bypass valve mechanism at the top where it spins on. Whereas the cute hollow empty coffee can I screwed on earlier only ended up screwing me.

Off to WallMart to buy a case of the correct filters !!!! TG3569

Dam you cute tiny filter, Damn you I say !!!!




PS. Old Guy You kick enormous amounts of ass !

[:d]

[Curtis H.]

Just to follow up.....

The oil pressure issue was completely solved by switching to the correct filter. Never saw the warning light on my dash again.

It was all about the correct oil filter bypass valve location and allowance of correct flow rate.

Thanks again Old Guy

[Curtis H.]

Yes all marks are "dead nutts" as I say .... LOL

Cam and crank

I have learned from reading so much about this that the ECU is figuratively guessing at this point and relying on the info its receiving from the crank position to tell the ignition when to fire.
The idle is smooth all the time and the only codes I have from VCDS are the ones I listed. I wish I had more or different codes that had to do with lack or excessive timing advance - that would help.
The car runs very smooth as well. It literally reads 19psi - so the boost is present and getting there, but the timing does not feel as though it is advancing to act upon it.

I'm sure it has something to do with the chain tensioner because that's the only component left that would have such an influence with this type of symptomatic unresolve.
And yes its new - go figure.

[Jeris5]

Have you checked the pins on the sensor? Sometimes while disconnecting and connecting sensor connectors, the pins can back out. Had this happen to me recently and only realised it when installing a new sensor. Just a guess

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

[Curtis H.]

Ok...... we're back

The "oil pressure" light is back on the dash after a change to the correct filter which seemed to have helped for only about a mile of testing.
The only good news to this situation is that the light only comes on at low RPM never high, but I cant understand why.
The filter seemed like a very plausible bonehead mistake on my part (no issue admitting).

But now I am worried because it seems that this oil pressure issue is exactly what's robbing power from the motor.
Also the boost seems to come on just a little and then have issues.
The timing advance as a result of proper oil pressure seems to happen but only momentarily.

I really need to check the oil pressure in this thing.

Old Guy - I will check the thread you provided again

[Curtis H.]

Anybody ???? anything????

[old guy]

Low oil pressure shouldn't cause any power delivery problems with the engine. It will just cause premature wear with the bearings in the engine. If your red oil pressure light is occasionally flickering on you definitely need to check your oil pressure. Toolaa's thread gives you all the information you need to check the oil pressure. I picked up a cheap oil pressure gauge kit and a 27mm socket and I can check the oil pressure in under an hour start to finish. Clicky click (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/610203-1-8t-Oil-Pressure-Survival-Guide-and-troubleshooting-DIY?p=9995843&viewfull=1#post9995843)®

You need to first check your oil pressure for your engine's health. Then you need to address the performance issue.

[Curtis H.]

ok......

Visited my local Harbor Freight .... Love those "F"in guys for stuff like this.
Picked up an Oil Pressure Gauge Set for like $14 or something. Went home
and had the thing hooked up within 30min. Much to my happiness the guage
shot up to damn near 70psi during the 90sec warm up period and never fell
below 30psi when things settled down.

Its not the pump !! Its not the pump !!! [hail] Thank God Thank God

Went to AZ to pick up a replacement oil pressure switch. Have not run the car yet
but I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that my motor is getting a very healthy
dose of the proper oil with the proper filter in place.

If I see that damn light again it will be a result of damage to the wire in some way.

So Happy !!!!!


Only one timing issue to solve and this thing is done !!!!!

[Curtis H.]

As fate would have it the timing belt was off by one tooth.

But there was one thing that continued to bug me; why was the car still throwing a code of the cam position?
after I took the belt off, reinstalled with the utmost care, turned the motor over by hand 3 times, It landed dead nuts right on. Straight Money !!!
I still knew something would be off as I had been down this road before.
I said, let me be thorough and take the CPS off and check out the trigger wheel's alignment . OFF !!! by one link !! Intake cam side of course.

Well, time to take the cams out AGAIN and move one tooth.

Went through the process:
- Now cams line up with the arrows
- I have 16 links which I swore I did before all 12 times I counted
- Crank timing dead on
- Exhaust cam timing dead on
- Intake cam timing dead on (trigger wheel and arrow to cap)

Car fired right up on the first key turn. CPS code GONE

Turned it off for the ultimate test. It never fired right back up in all previous tests for the past two weeks.

Fired right back up on the first key turn [hail] Thank Ya Jesus !!!

VCDS picked up an advance (intermittent) code - no MIL on [hail] This might go away




Cant thank Let it Snow and Old Guy for guiding me to the answers. I never gave up

[Curtis H.]

Car is pulling strong and boosting strong as it should.

Stupid Problems left:

- AIR BAG light on for the connector under driver seat.
- Oil pressure light (Sometimes) as result of damaged wire/connector - Pressure was checked with manual gauge - Its VERY VERY good.
- Oil seep through orifice in top of oil filter housing that bolts to block - [evilmad]

[old guy]

Car is pulling strong and boosting strong as it should.

Stupid Problems left:

- AIR BAG light on for the connector under driver seat.

Clicky click (http://forums.bigskyeuro.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=3374)® Another aid: Clicky click 2® (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2815467) And one more: Clicky click 3 (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/289490-DIY-B6-B7-Airbag-light-(Audi-TSB)®

[Curtis H.]

OK......

Ended up having to take the valve cover off again.
Sprung a oil leak at the chain tensioner..... RTV'd the hell out of the gasket, half moons and the cover (properly of course, wiping off all excess)... Lol.

I also stated in an earlier post that it was important to use the correct BIG BIG oil filter size for reasons of proper drain back valve position and filter capacity. It was a brand new filter that would not stop, would not stop leaking.
All this swapping parts in relation to a freaking oil pressure warning light on my dash that would come on intermittently and go away. Remember I checked the pressure and it was at 70psi at idle. So I changed the switch.
So I threw the smaller size filter on and now have no leaks.

I had a pesky AIR BAG light on the dash.
Had to remove the driver's seat and delete the yellow connector. Used VCDS to turn it off and it stayed off......[hail]

Took it for a test drive the next day and had no leaks and no AIR BAG light.

This is the first car I have ever built for myself that didn't have a check engine light. You know whats up I'm a motor guy - if its pulling strong and there's a stupid sensor messed up WHO CARES????
Oh until me and that light meet again......[evilsmile]

[Curtis H.]

Ok....

So, I am down to the very last issue on this car and its PERFECT!!!!!!
That damn oil pressure light keeps coming on every time I drive.

- Never at high RPM or cursing speeds
- Never saw the famous STOP sign and don't think I will
- Have check oil pressure and it VERY healthy 70psi at start and not below 40 at idle.
- Have changed switch and seems to have gotten better, but still happens.
- Oil is new and at a perfect level.
- Viscosity is 5w30.

My thoughts :

- Switch is good
- Bad wire that works when it wants to.
- Bad connector on wire harness.
- Cut the connector and install aftermarket female side of connector to harness

Your Thoughts???

Whats up guys ????

Possible fixes ????

[AudiA4_20T]

Man your timing was bad the whole time. That'll do it.

Anyways I think you *do* have an issue with oil pressure. The fact that it's only going off at low RPM is an indicator that something isn't right. I would do a half can of Seafoam in the crankcase for 20 miles or so and an oil change.

[Curtis H.]

I appreciate the reply.

However, I think that would definitely be the right call for a motor with miles.
This is a fresh build with 43miles on the motor and each step I have taken so far has helped the light stay off for longer and longer durations of time.

In respect to your suggestion - I am about two seconds away from installing an oil pressure gauge in the car to not only keep an eye on the situation
but have a real answer when the light is triggered.

[AudiA4_20T]

I appreciate the reply.

However, I think that would definitely be the right call for a motor with miles.
This is a fresh build with 43miles on the motor and each step I have taken so far has helped the light stay off for longer and longer durations of time.

In respect to your suggestion - I am about two seconds away from installing an oil pressure gauge in the car to not only keep an eye on the situation
but have a real answer when the light is triggered.

It would be the right call for a motor with an oil pressure issue. There could be some leftover shavings from the engine break-in stuck in the pump screen right now or some other debris. Either way you need to clean it out.

[old guy]

Do one thing for me. With the engine at idle remove the oil filler cap. There should only be a slight vacuum. If you loosen the cap at set it back in place it should dance up and down.

[Curtis H.]

Old guy...

What's the deal if its sucked into position and does not move at all?

[old guy]

Old guy...

What's the deal if its sucked into position and does not move at all?

That would be an indication of a defective crankcase breathing system and may be the source of your occasional low oil pressure light. Clicky click (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/502642-Oil-Pressure-light-can-anything-else-be-done?p=7994765&viewfull=1#post7994765)®

[Curtis H.]

old guy,

You kick ass once again.

My breather system is largely replaced with new components.
My PCV Valve is from 034.
My hockey puck on the intake is old and allows air to pass in both directions.
My O ring on the elbow is not OE I will check that as well.

This issue only happens at low RPM's and goes away very quickly.

One perplexing fact, but makes a little more sence after reading the thread you suggested is:
Sitting in line at the drive through. OIL LIGHT
Shut the car off. Turn it right back on no OIL LIGHT
About to pull out of driveway OIL LIGHT
Drive down the road NO OIL LIGHT


Really thought this thing was an electrical issue.
Will check these mechanical components and update

[Curtis H.]

Ok so I learned a few things today.

I checked the two suggested components from the thread you provided Old Guy.
06A129101D - Pressure Relief Valve - Replaced this morning with New OEM component
06A103245F - Positive Crankcase Ventilation is 034 Motorsports #034-101-2002 30k or less miles on it.

So needless to say - all in working order....


The Low Oil Pressure Light

1. I do not have it when engine is cold under any circumstance.
2. It only comes on when engine is at normal operating temp.

The most important thing is .....
The perfect way to describe the only circumstance that triggers the light is:

- Put car in first gear
- Begin to pull away slow...
- Before car reaches 2k RPM shift into second and get that bog kind of reaction from the car then it triggers
- If I take second gear up to 3K its gone.

It only shows up under these circumstances.
Never at idle - cold or hot

Thoughts?

[old guy]

Didn't you indicate that at idle your oil filler cap was under a significant amount of vacuum and didn't "dance around" when you loosened it and set it in place?

[Curtis H.]

Yes Yes.... it did dance around as you said it would.

I did run that test.

[Curtis H.]

Old guy,

Quick question. All these dudes that have tried to help me with this issue continue to gravitate toward a typical answer. Clogged oil screen on the pick up.
I get the point that it is a common failure point. I get it. But I just built this motor with a pump and pick up that had 30k or less on it with 0 issue when the motor was removed from the car. (Plus I cleaned the shit out of it)
So I don't think I am dealing with that typical problem at all.

My question is about the pick up itself. There are two versions - The long and the shorty.
When building the motor all windage trays in my stock of parts were the same and seemed to line up with the shorty. So that's what I went with.
And as discussed in previous posts I can make the warning light come on when I want. I have figured out exactly the set of circumstances that turns it on and off. Its mechanical not electrical I know that now.
And being mechanical - going off and on at my will, only under one set of circumstances leads me to believe the pump is fine but I may have the wrong pick up.

What determines whether or not you use the long or the shorty?
If you use the wrong one with the wrong chassis setup will it pose issues?

Your thoughts?

[Curtis H.]

ok so I did some research and answered my own question.

Yes, The shorty is the right one for me as I have a longitudinal engine.
I have to drop my f**king pan and either clean my pick up or change both pump and pick up.

[old guy]

You indicated that when you check your oil pressure everything appears copacetic. You also indicated that you only get the oil pressure warning light under high vacuum conditions. Before you go tearing into your engine again let’s try one thing.

Get your engine up to temperature so you can duplicate your oil light conditions. Then with the engine at idle remove the dip stick. It may cause a slight change in the idle speed since it will be letting in unmetered air. Leave the dip stick out and see if you can still provoke your oil light to come on. If you can then pull the pan and check the screen.

If you can no longer provoke the oil light you may be experiencing the conditions that I linked to in post #82. If the block breathers are allowing excessive vacuum leaving the dip stick out reduces the amount of absolute vacuum and thus the pull required by the oil pump to provide adequate pressure.

[Curtis H.]

Copy that I will run that test when I get home!!!

Thanks Old Guy

[Curtis H.]

Should I be surprised...... You were right again.

I took the dipstick out, Zip tied a rag over the opening, just in case and ran the car.
I put it through the paces times ten:

-Super slow starts
-High gears at low ass speed

I did everything I could to make that light come on - IT DID NOT !!!!!

So, there is only one billet check valve on the 034 Motorsports silicone hose setup that controls crankcase breathing that needs to be taken off and soaked clean.
From your previous post - I already replaced the hockey puck on the turbo inlet pipe but did nothing with the 034 part.

That's on the plate for tomorrow.

Old Guy ....cant thank you enough - you just saved me 12 hours of work and intense aggravation from what I was planning and it would have been all for nothing.

Will post results.

[old guy]

By no means am i suggesting the 034 billet check valve isn't a quality part. But some of the earlier versions have been know to pull excessive vacuum on some applications. If soaking it doesn't make a difference you may want to consider just going with an OEM PCV. Clicky click (https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Emissions/PCV/ES257303/)®

[Curtis H.]

Ok so here is my dilemma.

Last night I tried the dipstick out trick and it seemed to work like magic.

This morning I took the 034 PCV off and got all the oil out of it - thinking the clean valve would be equal to the dipstick out trick.
Cleaned it with brakeclean - blew air through it only in one direction - the other direction was a virtual wall, the valve is working great.
Put it back in, the car idled so quiet on start up, the correct RPM, but way quieter and smoother. I was sure this thing was fixed.

I let the car heat up to NOT and then test drove it. Things were working great.
Came out of the store, went to pull out of the drive way and BAM! There it was. OIL PRESSURE OIL PRESSURE

I'm like OK, pull out, get some RPM, light goes right off. Pull off from the next light, comes back on - goes right off.
Pull over, take the dipstick out as the magic trick from last night an had zero result - zero. Light on off, on off, on, off -----WTF WTF.

The 034 valve was obviously blocked last night, because the dipstick trick made everything perfect.
Cleaning it made my idle perfect on cold start, but now I'm back to square one with a clean valve and a VERY smooth idle.

The one thing I have learned which you stated Old Guy is that no matter what the issue only occurs "under extreme vacuum".
That is in fact the common denominator.

Thoughts?

[old guy]

Can you hook up your oil pressure gauge and monitor the actual oil pressure under the conditions that typically cause the light to come on? If you are getting the low oil pressure light with the dipstick out I doubt you are pulling excessive vacuum on the block.

I believe you replaced your PRV? Is that correct?

[Curtis H.]

yes I did replace the PRV - with OEM new

I will hook up the oil pressure gauge to see what the actual pressure is under those conditions

Will post.

[Curtis H.]

ok so.

This morning on cold start, the car presented the same NOT perfectly smooth idle during the 90 sec SAI time period. Steady, but a little chokey.
When I cleaned the 034 valve yesterday it was PERFECTLY smooth during 90 sec.

So I figured the 034 valve was clogged again and immediately went to take out the dipstick.

It worked again, No light not at all.
So looks like I have either found the problem of an extreme crankcase vacuum issue - Like you said Old Guy.
And the only way to solve it is swap that damn 034 billet PCV or leave my dipstick out forever........Funny but not funny

[Curtis H.]

ok,

So lets talk vacuum pull from the crank case.
My issue seems to be a VERY healthy vaccum, so healthy its a problem.
The only steady fix for the issue so far has been removing the dipstick and allowing an open port leading directly to the crank case.

Posibilites:
1. Cover the dipstick tube hole with a small cut square of a rag zip tie it and live my life with the dipstick in the trunk.
2. Remove the PRV from the induction pipe, plug it and one side of the "T" at the back of the valve cover to see if that works, deleting half the vacuum source. And of course put my damn dipstick back in .... lol

General Question.

All my parts in this build are new, yes, but why is the vaccum so efficient - enough to cause an issue?

[old guy]

All my parts in this build are new, yes, but why is the vacuum so efficient - enough to cause an issue?

Refer to post #92. The block vacuum is controlled by two valves. The PRV and the PCV.

The PCV is a metering valve and it's job is to pull a controlled amount of vacuum on the block.

The PRV is a dual function valve. When the block is under vacuum the PRV allows filtered metered air to enter the block. The PRV has a diaphragm that gets pulled down to block the internal intake tube. The intake tube has a small metering hole on the side of the tube that will still allow a specific amount of air into the block. If the block is building pressure (intake under boost conditions and blow-by gasses being generated) the diaphragm is in the open position thus allowing flow of any blow-by gasses out of the block and into the TIP. If the TIP pulls more vacuum than required to pull out the blow-by gasses the diaphragm closes and the only vacuum will be pulled through the side metering hole.

If your PRV is functioning properly and the metering hole is clear the only way to get excessive vacuum would be through the PCV valve. If the PCV valve is pulling more vacuum than allowed through the PRV metering hole the block vacuum increases. The greater the discrepancy between the two metering devices the higher the block vacuum.

Before you do anything else I would recommend trying an OEM PCV valve. They are cheap enough and it may resolve your issue.

[Curtis H.]

quick question

Its pretty obvious that the PCV is to CLOSE when crankcase pressure (blow-by gasses) are being built under boost conditions. Hence the light going off when it does (intake is under positive pressure).
What slightly puzzles me is the conditions in which the light comes on that I have described a bunch of times occurs when the motor is still under vacuum.
This leads to my question...

At what negative PSI is the PCV valve suppose to open? Sounds like a dumb question but not really.....

The valve's metering action is suppose to be controlled by, Spring rate (always closed), Intake manifold vacuum (open), and positive boost pressure (closed).
But what about the spring rate of the valve?
If the spring rate of my 034 PCV is too weak for whatever reason, the valve will open, giving me more intake manifold air volume (closer to 0 rather than -18 on my boost gauge) equaling a shityer idle on cold start and this ridiculous issue.

Old Guy - my understanding of this valves position was completely backwards the whole time - My bad dude. !!

Will swap the PCV with stock unit (pray its higher spring rate).



Will post.

[old guy]

You are misunderstanding how the PVC valve operates. It is not controlled by the block pressure and it does not require spring pressure to open or close. The PCV valve is open any time it is presented with a vacuum signal from the intake manifold. It closes under boost pressure.

When it has a vacuum signal it pulls purge air through the block. This purge air enters the block through the PRV valve. Under normal conditions the block will have a very slight negative pressure.

The PCV valve is a metering device that controls the amount of flow that goes through the valve. If the opening in the PCV valve is significantly larger than the opening in the PRV the vacuum on the block will increase. If you plugged the PRV completely you could see a significant amount of vacuum on the block. If you went off throttle downhill you may even see as much as the manifold vacuum.

That’s why I am recommending you try an OEM PCV. If the 034 PCV is overly aggressive (a larger opening than the OEM valve) you will see a greater amount of vacuum being pulled on the block.

[DansB6]

My 2 cents, i had an issue with the red oil pressure light coming on. It turned out to be a clogged oil cooler for me.

[old guy]

That's also a possibility worth exploring if the PCV valve doesn't change anything.

[Curtis H.]

DansB6 thanks very much for that input. and Old Guy agrees.


Old Guy..... worse news ever man. It didn't work.
I did what you said - I blew air through both valves to compare

- OE - was like blowing air through a McDonalds straw. In the opposite direction, like a wall.
- 034 - was difficult to push air through as compared, but not impossible. (valve was still very clean)

What I don't get is, its basically like its a bullshit light. I can make the light come on and go off manually by forcing all circumstances described earlier.
Here's another:
If the light comes on and I'm in traffic. You know, inching forward 5 feet at a time.
The light will come on as I start moving in first (Light ON, Light ON. I can shut the car off and start it right back up - NO LIGHT!!
If this was truly a hardware issue of sincere low oil pressure I should not be able to do that...... agree?

Next step
I have to install my manual gauge and leave it in the car.
I have to take pictures at all symptomatic RPM points.

Will post.

[Curtis H.]

Well,

I hooked up the manual oil pressure gauge, ran the line under and out the top the hood and braced the gauge with my drivers side windshield wiper arm.
Test drive time.

At warm idle it registered about 30.
At the end of my street it had dropped to 20.
On boost it never rose above 40.
and during the drive sitting at traffic lights it dropped to """""9'''''''' ,yes 9

Parked it and pulled out the S4 again. I was wondering why it had a small tendency of overheating a little..... got my answer..... thank god I only drove 236 total miles since the rebuild - obviously the bearings are new .....if this was an old beat motor I probably would have killed it.

Pump and pick up on order.

[evilsmile] [headbang] [evilmad]

Talk to you guys in a few days

[walky_talky20]

- Did you pull your dipstick or oil cap off and see if "9" turned into anything better?
- Did you try the OEM PCV valve?



The light will come on as I start moving in first (Light ON, Light ON. I can shut the car off and start it right back up - NO LIGHT!!
If this was truly a hardware issue of sincere low oil pressure I should not be able to do that...... agree?


No. You are expecting the dashboard to instantly clear the Oil Pressure Warning display once the pressure is back up. You are not driving a Camry (lol): the behavior is otherwise. Over-engineered as per usual. There are timers involved. Minimum display time, minimum time pressure has to be back to normal before the warning goes away, different timers for different RPM ranges and coolant temperatures. It's more complex than you think. Shutting the key Off and back On just clears the timers, and thus the warning is removed.

[customa4]

What would removing the dipstick or oil cap do Walky?

[Curtis H.]

Walky,

I know your a vet in here and I have seen your posts and respect your opinion.
Thanks for explaining the timing of the light in conjunction with different items such as RPM ranges and coolant temp etc. That is for sure something new I learned just now.

I am sure that the pressure of the gauge would change if I removed the stick was removed, however not to a sufficient level to wipe out the overall pressure issue. And yes I did swap my 034 PCV to the stock unit - ultimately 0 change.
The thing is all efforts made to manage crankcase pressure DID help the situation with noticeable change intermittently, until the issue returned at NOT.
The first time I hooked up my oil pressure gauge, I know now I did not leave it on for long enough to get the true reading when the motor was truly up to temp.
This recent test was no slouch and man did it turn up the worst result possible.

Costoma 4

The oil cap is just a quick trick test to see if the below described system is functioning properly.
Cap dances on the valve cover - Your good.
Cap sucks down or just sits still - You have issues.

If you have your (PRV) Pressure relief valve and your (PCV) positive crankcase ventilation valves hooked up and working properly
they work in tandem. The PRV allows fresh, clean, metered air into the block and the PCV is the evacuation. They both have a specified flow rate that work well together. If they are both working
correctly you will NOT suffer from:

1. The block becoming pressurized - PRV sticking in open position and not regulating airflow in
2. The block becoming pressurized - PCV sticking shut in closed position not allowing air to escape
3. The block becoming pressurized - PCV leaking under boost conditions. (pressurized air leaking past PCV into the block.)
3. Excessive Vacuum - PRV sticking closed and gummed up with oil and PCV working well
4. Excessive Vacuum - Aftermarket PCV with higher capability to pull higher vacuum than a fully functional PRV can provide.

In my case I THOUGHT I was pulling to much vacuum from my block.
Taking the dipstick out allowed more air in and seemed to equalize the flow of the two valves and helped my situation until my motor heated up and the pressure just fell.

[old guy]

The first time I hooked up my oil pressure gauge, I know now I did not leave it on for long enough to get the true reading when the motor was truly up to temp.
This recent test was no slouch and man did it turn up the worst result possible.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you will get lucky and it's only debris in the pick-up screen.



The oil cap is just a quick trick test to see if the below described system is functioning properly.
Cap dances on the valve cover - Your good.
Cap sucks down or just sits still - You have issues.
Some good information but needs a little clarification and correction:



If you have your (PRV) Pressure relief valve and your (PCV) positive crankcase ventilation valves hooked up and working properly they work in tandem. The PRV allows fresh, clean, metered air into the block and the PCV is the evacuation. They both have a specified flow rate that work well together. If they are both working
correctly you will NOT suffer from:

1. The block becoming pressurized - PRV sticking in open position and not regulating airflow in PRV in the open position is normal at idle or when the intake manifold is under vacuum.

2. The block becoming pressurized - PCV sticking shut in closed position not allowing air to escape The PCV is always closed if the intake manifold is under boost. If it is stuck closed when the intake manifold is under vacuum the block blow-by gasses will escape through the PRV.

3. The block becoming pressurized - PCV leaking under boost conditions. (pressurized air leaking past PCV into the block.) A stuck open PCV will allow boost pressure to enter the block. If the PRV is functioning properly it should be able to dump the pressure into the TIP. If the PRV is gummed up then you can definitely pressurize the block

4. Excessive Vacuum - PRV sticking closed and gummed up with oil and PCV working well Correct. If the metering port on the PRV is clogged this condition will cause excessive vacuum on the block.

5. Excessive Vacuum - Aftermarket PCV with higher capability to pull higher vacuum than a fully functional PRV can provide. Correct. Vacuum pull is greater than vacuum supply.

In my case I THOUGHT I was pulling to much vacuum from my block.
Taking the dipstick out allowed more air in and seemed to equalize the flow of the two valves and helped my situation until my motor heated up and the pressure just fell.

Good luck with the repairs Curtis! Sorry you are having to go through all this again....

[Curtis H.]

What's up Guys Im back with good and bad news.

GOOD : Just got back from SEMA and it was dope as hell car guy heaven.
I didn't pay one red cent. I work for Permatex. Company trip OOOOOHHHH SSSHHHIIITTT !!!!

BAD : Before I left I had to man up and drop the pan. I found about half a shop rag of collected red lint in my pick up screen.
I was relieved as hell to find this and knew for sure this was it finally the problem of low oil pressure was over...... NOPE !!!
First test drive it stayed off for a long time. On the street highway everything was cool. Last turn before my house BEEP BEEP BEEP !!! WTF????!!!
I almost puked. Then I remembered an answer from one of the guys on this thread that said he changed the oil cooler and things were good.
Makes sense as the pressure gauge measures after the cooler so I gave that a shot.... Everything was cool for a minute then BEEEP BEEP BEEP !!!!! WTF!!!!

Now back from the show I put the gauge back on to see what the pressure was when the oil is up to temp..... A whopping 11psi. WTF !!!!!
A perfectly clean screen and new cooler got me 2 psi better than before.

Daddy needs a PUMP!!! [headbang] [headbang]

[Curtis H.]

Oil Pump wasn't that expensive just :

$ 170.00 at the dealer

[headbang]

[Curtis H.]

I have no words guys.

- I changed the pump and re-cleaned the screen just to be sure ...... (It wasn't bad at all but just to be safe.
- On the way to work this morning, under the exact same conditions - pulling away from a traffic light - BEEP BEEP BEEP !!! (Low Oil Pressure)
- The only thing I imagine I'm missing at this point would be a clogged passage from the pump to the oil cooler housing blotted to the block.

I'm so mad right now !!!!


[headbang]

[Let it snow]

Did you ever replace the oil switch? Also inspect the wire to it and make sure it is not chaffed and intermittently grounding on the engine.

[Curtis H.]

Unfortunately, Yeah - I did.

- I swapped it with and AutoZone part and under the same conditions the light came on.
- I switched back to the OE and it happened again, under the same conditions.
- The wire appeared to be in good shape.
- I waited for the light to come on and pulled and shook the wire to see if I could get it to go off. It didn't.

I do believe the electrical situation is in good standing as the light only comes on only under certain conditions and the mechanical gauge under those conditions reads 10 or 11psi.
The low psi readings only occur when the oil is up to temp.
On cold start the pressure is good and stays good for about 10 to 15 min of driving.
Oil gets up to temp and then - BEEP BEEP BEEP !!!

I need to put the manual gauge back on after changing the pump to see where I'm at right now.

Will post .....

If that damn gauge reads anywhere below 20psi (which I'm sure it will) I have to have a blockage from the pump to the cooler assembly.

[old guy]

There are two separate high oil pressure relief valves. One of them is built into the oil pump. You have ruled that one out. The other one is on the lower front of the oil filter housing. It is a simple spring and plunger. I have never heard of one going bad but it may be worth checking.

Items 1, 2, 3 and 4.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/dy7u9eda.jpg

[Curtis H.]

Old Guy,

Thanks for the suggestion of the hp valve, it looks like a miniture version of the one under the intake manifold of my 4.2.
There were many scratching head moments that seemed more abundant than confident action in this long lasting problem.

Truth is I spoke with some really cool cats at BNR Motors in Meriden CT.

As you know, I read the tread you pointed me to here on Audizine all about 1.8T oiling systems in complete.
The thread touched on higher viscosity oils as a means to increase oil pressure
and did not exactly support the idea - just explored it subjectively.

Well, all that to say I have been running Pennzoil 5w30 Full Syn since the beginning and it was recommended that I take the gamble
and swap out my oil with some Valvoline VR1 20w50 Full Syn an some Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
That was yesterday.....

I have not seen that DAMN oil light since.

[hail]

Probably the most stressful issue I have ever faced with such a small fix.
Crazy..!!





Viscosity was the fix - SON OF A BITCH, CAN'T BELIEVE IT ! ! !

[old guy]

Glad to hear that you have cured your low oil pressure issue! My biggest concern would be what is causing the higher viscosity requirement to begin with. The majority of 1.8T's can maintain oil pressure with 0w-40 or 5w-40 throughout the life of the engine.

Best wishes for a long uneventful run with your new engine!

[Curtis H.]

I could not agree more and literally share the identical concern and question.

During the entire fight to get to the answer, I never imagined changing the viscosity as it felt like a cop out to not truly solving the issue by the book mechanically. "I feel you..!!" LOL !

[customa4]

When I had the low oil pressure light I threw in some BG MOA and I never saw the light again.