15 Engine rattling noises at cold start - V6 3.0 TFSI

[jygesq]

I had the tensioners replaced per the TSB back in December 2017, but over the past couple of months I have been hearing the chain rattle at startup again. I have an appointment to take the car back to the dealership on Monday. 2015 S4 with 46700 miles. Also experiencing rough idle issues that almost sound like a cylinder misfiring, so I'm wondering if it's timing related. In any case, I'm glad mine cropped back up now and not at 50,001 miles.Isn,t dealer work guaranteed for at least one year? Your experience gives pause to those of us who have not done. TSB yet.

[SteveYem]

Isn,t dealer work guaranteed for at least one year? Your experience gives pause to those of us who have not done. TSB yet.

I'm not sure but I'll certainly ask the question! And I definitely agree that in this case the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" should apply. My car was exhibiting the chain rattle before I had it fixed in December so I don't have much remorse over my choice to have the service done, but I certainly would not have had it done if I had not noticed the symptom.

[fs454]

Got the car back today. They did the tensioners and both valve cover gaskets for some reason. My SA was off today and the SA handling my case looked at me like I had 9 heads when I asked to see the parts as I had discussed on the phone with my SA ("Possibly, I'll look into making that happen"), so I took the car and left. Runs great, we'll see if I have any noises tomorrow AM starting up the car.


Fingers crossed everything goes well here moving forward. The chain noise I was able to generate by bringing engine RPMs to around 1000-1100 in park or neutral is no longer there, so that's a good sign.

[SteveYem]

I had the TSB work done in late 2017 and have been hearing the chain rattle at startup again recently. Here is a video I took this morning when I started up the car on my way to drop it off at the dealer. Hood is open so the sound is very easy to hear. Currently 46700 miles on the car, was probably around 39000 miles when I had the issue addressed the first time:
https://youtu.be/ugfF0x3U3KI

[AudiS4SD]

I had the TSB work done in late 2017 and have been hearing the chain rattle at startup again recently. Here is a video I took this morning when I started up the car on my way to drop it off at the dealer. Hood is open so the sound is very easy to hear. Currently 46700 miles on the car, was probably around 39000 miles when I had the issue addressed the first time:
https://youtu.be/ugfF0x3U3KI

For the sake of confirmation, this is exactly how my car sounds. The duration of the rattle, startup sequence of noises, etc. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I have not done the TSB yet and the noise has been around for about 20k miles. If multiple people are now getting the rattle after the TSB done, Audi has to chime in, right? Right?? Doubt it...

Doing the TSB gives a high risk of consequential issues in timing, codes, etc. if the dealership is incompetent in conducting the work. But, even if perfectly done, the sound appears to come back within 5-8k miles (from the posts I"ve seen). I want to know what happened to the guy with 100k here his chain skipped (still waiting for details) -- did his EPL tune cause it? What was he doing at the time? Was he just parked idling?

More reasons NOT to do the TSB. However, the question remains: is there a breaking point in the chain where bad things happens? Can you detect it or will codes appears beforehand?

[SteveYem]

For the sake of confirmation, this is exactly how my car sounds. The duration of the rattle, startup sequence of noises, etc. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I have not done the TSB yet and the noise has been around for about 20k miles. If multiple people are now getting the rattle after the TSB done, Audi has to chime in, right? Right?? Doubt it...

Doing the TSB gives a high risk of consequential issues in timing, codes, etc. if the dealership is incompetent in conducting the work. But, even if perfectly done, the sound appears to come back within 5-8k miles (from the posts I"ve seen). I want to know what happened to the guy with 100k here his chain skipped (still waiting for details) -- did his EPL tune cause it? What was he doing at the time? Was he just parked idling?

More reasons NOT to do the TSB. However, the question remains: is there a breaking point in the chain where bad things happens? Can you detect it or will codes appears beforehand?

I'm certainly worried that this issue will come back after the second fix (assuming that the dealership does indeed agree to fix it again). When I had the work done the first time in late 2017 they flat out told me they had never done this job before. I have a long-standing relationship with this dealership so I decided to let them do the work. I have to say, I immediately noticed an improvement in the behavior of the car when I left the dealer's lot the first time. Notably, the car felt smoother when shifting (6MT), whereas before the service it was doing a lot of clunking / bucking, like I was never able to modulate the clutch properly for a smooth shift. That problem had gone away completely when I got the car back. I drove around for a few hundred miles on the stock tune and it felt great. Then I flashed back to EPL Stage 1 and at some point the clunking / bucking was back. When I flashed back to stock the bucking remained. Fast forward a few months and I started hearing the chain rattle at startup again.

So, first and foremost I'm very curious to see if the dealer will fix it again. I sent the above linked video to my service advisor (along with two other videos where the sound is present) so it's going to be hard for them to deny that it's happening. Then I'm curious to know whether it corrects the jerky feeling during shifting like it did the first time around. If it does, I'm planning to leave it on the stock tune for a while, painful as it is, to see if the behavior changes. In general, though, this issue is giving me a lot of pause on this platform and has me thinking about jumping ship.

[Spacegrau]

I've tried to get the TSB applied to my car at both Audi dealers in my town. Both refused as not able to replicate even with video proof:

https://youtu.be/dPMS0BKrwMo
https://youtu.be/-nEMvSwJV0U

Audi of Canada has been even less helpful.

At this point I'll just live with it. I have everything documented in case of engine timing issues but so far we only have one case on the forums of engine damage and that is on a high mileage tuned car which may not even be related to the startup rattle.

I'll stop worrying about it and if something does happen I'll cross that bridge should I get to it.

[jygesq]

One dealer who I consulted offered they had never done the TSB. My selling dealer also told me they had never done the TSB. The first dealer reported they had not heard of or seen a 3.0 v6 having engine failure, unlike the 2.0 engine which grenades as about 80 k miles.That is why I posted asking if TSB was done had noise reappeared?

[AudiS4SD]

I've tried to get the TSB applied to my car at both Audi dealers in my town. Both refused as not able to replicate even with video proof:

https://youtu.be/dPMS0BKrwMo
https://youtu.be/-nEMvSwJV0U

Audi of Canada has been even less helpful.

At this point I'll just live with it. I have everything documented in case of engine timing issues but so far we only have one case on the forums of engine damage and that is on a high mileage tuned car which may not even be related to the startup rattle.

I'll stop worrying about it and if something does happen I'll cross that bridge should I get to it.

I'm right there with you. I've had the rattle for the last 20k miles or so. Though the engine damage example is concerning, all the details are not there (yet?). If the rattle is coming back anyway in some of these cars, the TSB obviously doesn't fix it and there is something else going on (need better parts).

[dowzer]

I've tried to get the TSB applied to my car at both Audi dealers in my town. Both refused as not able to replicate even with video proof:

https://youtu.be/dPMS0BKrwMo
https://youtu.be/-nEMvSwJV0U

Audi of Canada has been even less helpful.

At this point I'll just live with it. I have everything documented in case of engine timing issues but so far we only have one case on the forums of engine damage and that is on a high mileage tuned car which may not even be related to the startup rattle.

I'll stop worrying about it and if something does happen I'll cross that bridge should I get to it.

I had the TSB done by the east end location last year. They had my car for a month, and after that the engine felt sluggish and I have a feeling they messed up a motor mount because the amount of vibration coming from the engine was unbelievable. The vibration has since calmed down but it's still not as smooth as it used to be. Of course the dealer tells me the vibration is normal. And sure enough the noise came back anyway after a few months, so I would have been better off leaving it as-is.

[mediapimp]

Sorry to hear about the additional trouble some of you have had after getting the TSB done. All of these recent posts have convinced me to leave well enough alone and not get the TSB done.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Johnnycash]

For the sake of confirmation, this is exactly how my car sounds. The duration of the rattle, startup sequence of noises, etc. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I have not done the TSB yet and the noise has been around for about 20k miles. If multiple people are now getting the rattle after the TSB done, Audi has to chime in, right? Right?? Doubt it...

Doing the TSB gives a high risk of consequential issues in timing, codes, etc. if the dealership is incompetent in conducting the work. But, even if perfectly done, the sound appears to come back within 5-8k miles (from the posts I"ve seen). I want to know what happened to the guy with 100k here his chain skipped (still waiting for details) -- did his EPL tune cause it? What was he doing at the time? Was he just parked idling?

More reasons NOT to do the TSB. However, the question remains: is there a breaking point in the chain where bad things happens? Can you detect it or will codes appears beforehand?

I was approaching a stop sign bringing my kid to volleyball practice on a wednesday afternoon. ( I remember the details well;)

car stalled out on me at the stop sign, tried to restart it 2-3xs it would turn over initially and then die, then nothing. called a tow truck and thought this sucks to have to fix something but never suspected total failure.

no noises, no codes, and the rattle on startup i had was barely a second or so.

I do not think the tune had anything at all to do with it, but who knows for sure?

[Spacegrau]

I had the TSB done by the east end location last year. They had my car for a month, and after that the engine felt sluggish and I have a feeling they messed up a motor mount because the amount of vibration coming from the engine was unbelievable. The vibration has since calmed down but it's still not as smooth as it used to be. Of course the dealer tells me the vibration is normal. And sure enough the noise came back anyway after a few months, so I would have been better off leaving it as-is.

Wow a month! I have a feeling the techs here just don't have the experience. They probably lost money on your car going way over billable time for this repair, no wonder they are so reluctant now haha

[SteveYem]

I was approaching a stop sign bringing my kid to volleyball practice on a wednesday afternoon. ( I remember the details well;)

car stalled out on me at the stop sign, tried to restart it 2-3xs it would turn over initially and then die, then nothing. called a tow truck and thought this sucks to have to fix something but never suspected total failure.

no noises, no codes, and the rattle on startup i had was barely a second or so.

I do not think the tune had anything at all to do with it, but who knows for sure?


I also do not see how a tune could affect the timing chain and/or tensioners but admittedly I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of these engines in general. I posed the question in the EPL owners thread to see if anyone there has an (unbiased) opinion on the affect of ECU tunes in general, not specifically EPL, on the condition of the tensioners.

[dowzer]

Wow a month! I have a feeling the techs here just don't have the experience. They probably lost money on your car going way over billable time for this repair, no wonder they are so reluctant now haha

Yeah for sure! Looking at the work order, I saw a couple of different tech IDs at the beginning, followed by a 3rd who is listed beside the bulk of the lines. The SA admitted they were really struggling with it, and that it would have been easier to just drop the engine to do the TSB.

[303 Spartan]

Count me in as another person who had the timing chain rattle return, 6 months after getting the TSB done.

January, 2018 - Original TSB performed
February, 2018 - additional work performed related to the TSB after I got CELs
March - April, 2018 - Multiple return visits for constant new CELs related to the TSB
May - June, 2018 - Car finally back to where it was prior to January, less the rattle

July, 2018 - One of every 3-4 cold starts, I'm starting to hear the rattle again. [mad] It's not as obnoxious as it was before the initial TSB was performed, but it has definitely started to return. Oh, and since getting the TSB, my car is burning through enough oil to go from F to just above E with 5k mile change intervals. Prior to getting the TSB, the car would barely burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes.

I'm no longer convinced that the "updated" tensioners are any better than the originals. That or the techs who worked on my car installed the previous version tensioners. Regardless, after the headache this TSB was for me for the first 5 months of this year, I'm done worrying about it. At least for now it's much less frequent and much less obnoxious sounding than before.

If the rattle gets back to the point that it occurs on every cold start and/or gets as loud as it did previously, I'll just trade the car in and move on. That new M2 competition is looking pretty nice....

[Johnnycash]

I also do not see how a tune could affect the timing chain and/or tensioners but admittedly I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of these engines in general. I posed the question in the EPL owners thread to see if anyone there has an (unbiased) opinion on the affect of ECU tunes in general, not specifically EPL, on the condition of the tensioners.

its a known issue, hence the tsb. audi has had issues on other models/variants, its clear they compromise on a critical component. the ecu flashes are safe there are plenty of anecdotes and testimony to that. the car and its internals are otherwise stout.

[jygesq]

Count me in as another person who had the timing chain rattle return, 6 months after getting the TSB done.

January, 2018 - Original TSB performed
February, 2018 - additional work performed related to the TSB after I got CELs
March - April, 2018 - Multiple return visits for constant new CELs related to the TSB
May - June, 2018 - Car finally back to where it was prior to January, less the rattle

July, 2018 - One of every 3-4 cold starts, I'm starting to hear the rattle again. [mad] It's not as obnoxious as it was before the initial TSB was performed, but it has definitely started to return. Oh, and since getting the TSB, my car is burning through enough oil to go from F to just above E with 5k mile change intervals. Prior to getting the TSB, the car would barely burn any noticeable amount of oil between changes.

I'm no longer convinced that the "updated" tensioners are any better than the originals. That or the techs who worked on my car installed the previous version tensioners. Regardless, after the headache this TSB was for me for the first 5 months of this year, I'm done worrying about it. At least for now it's much less frequent and much less obnoxious sounding than before.

If the rattle gets back to the point that it occurs on every cold start and/or gets as loud as it did previously, I'll just trade the car in and move on. That new M2 competition is looking pretty nice.... do you have a copy of repair order listing revised part? Both tensioners start with 06 see my post # 727 in this chain ( sorry for word play on chain)

[jygesq]

I had the TSB work done in late 2017 and have been hearing the chain rattle at startup again recently. Here is a video I took this morning when I started up the car on my way to drop it off at the dealer. Hood is open so the sound is very easy to hear. Currently 46700 miles on the car, was probably around 39000 miles when I had the issue addressed the first time:
https://youtu.be/ugfF0x3U3KI

the mimi shows oil level is down a bit, do you think that may have something to due with the problem?

[SteveYem]

the mimi shows oil level is down a bit, do you think that may have something to due with the problem?

Good catch haha, I figured someone might notice that. I changed my oil a few weeks ago and I intentionally sneak up on the fill to avoid over-filling, in case all of the oil has not drained down yet by the time I check the dip stick. I go back later and top up the oil level but I haven’t had the chance to do it yet. Will do so today though...thanks for the reminder!

[SteveYem]

Update: I took my car to the dealer to have them address the recurring timing chain noise on startup, as well as the cycling / rough / stumbling idle issue that is chronic. The service advisor acknowledged both symptoms but said the car is operating within its normal parameters, so no further action warranted at this time. I told him my concerns of having 3k miles / 3 months remaining on my factory warranty and he mentioned that all of this will be documented as having been reported while still under warranty. When I pick the car up today I will be requesting all of that in writing, because I know it's just not right. In the meantime I'll flash back to the latest EPL Stage 1 tune and see if that doesn't at least take care of the rough idle issue. I'm a bit disappointed, but not surprised. I'll at least be happy to get my car back....the 2018 A4 loaner they gave me, while decently equipped, is underwhelming....but at least it idles smoothly.

I'm with 303 Spartan on this one.....at this point I'm not going to let it stress me out and will focus on just enjoying the car. I'll keep an ear out for progression of the issue but I'll try not to make it my daily stress. There still isn't any other car I'd rather be in at the moment given 6MT and AWD and the price point. Life would be easier if I could settle on an automatic transmission.

[jygesq]

AUDI DEALER response," We can not replicate or car is normal "

[SteveYem]

AUDI DEALER response," We can not replicate or car is normal "

Yep, essentially. It seems very political to me. My guess is that if they went back to Audi Corporate to recoup the repair costs for this second go-round, Audi would tell them it's not covered because they already paid them to do the job ~8 months ago. So, Audi tells them to go pound sand, which they pass on to the customer. I may follow up with this dealer, as well as the other one in my area, before my warranty expires.

[Corradobrit]

I would not be happy with their response. The work for the TSB is waranteed for another 12 months/12K miles, even if out of factory warranty. This is not a dealer warranty but AoA. If the problem returns within that time frame or miles you have a legitimate claim. Talk to AoA and see what they say

[fs454]

I have to say after having the car back for a few days now it sounds and feels one thousand percent better. No rattle on startup, no chain clatter at ~1000rpm, the whole thing feels a hell of a lot tighter and quieter than before by all counts.


Having the cam chains permanently loose due to the worn tensioners cannot be healthy or safe for the engine long term and Audi knows it. Unfortunately with the stories of it coming back it seems like they've got a fundamentally flawed design that's probably just going to slip by their responsibility as these cars age and they embrace their boring new turbo 6.


I drive my car hard so I'll be keeping a close ear to the issue if it ever comes back. This is all making me weary to go Stage 1 - I've got CPO for another 2 years.

[303 Spartan]

do you have a copy of repair order listing revised part? Both tensioners start with 06 see my post # 727 in this chain ( sorry for word play on chain)


updated chain tensioner 06E1091217AH bank 2 06E109218AJ bank 1 according to TSB

Just checked my repair order and confirmed that the replacement tensioners match what you have. See pic below...

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1816/42864806765_9e0d77d0e0.jpg

[doughboy17]

I have to say after having the car back for a few days now it sounds and feels one thousand percent better. No rattle on startup, no chain clatter at ~1000rpm, the whole thing feels a hell of a lot tighter and quieter than before by all counts.


Having the cam chains permanently loose due to the worn tensioners cannot be healthy or safe for the engine long term and Audi knows it. Unfortunately with the stories of it coming back it seems like they've got a fundamentally flawed design that's probably just going to slip by their responsibility as these cars age and they embrace their boring new turbo 6.


I drive my car hard so I'll be keeping a close ear to the issue if it ever comes back. This is all making me weary to go Stage 1 - I've got CPO for another 2 years.

Agreed, but although I have a little less than 2 years left on my CPO and don't plan to be going Stage 1 until the CPO expires, it is not due to the chain rattle but rather waiting to get the car paid off and seeing how much my son's education may cost. BTW, consider EPL for your tune. Although I had originally shied away from them because they did not have a website, after spending much time on their Audizine thread, I am convinced they provide a great product at a good price and back it up with great customer service ... and they seem committed to supporting the B8.5 S4 platform.

[Guzeman70]

Just had the TSB done on my stock 15 S4 with 29K . Dealer didn't question it and it was the first one they had done. They had the car for about a week and it is back to normal so far

[sb_gli]

Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

pic I am too lazy to host:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo3YWLqN9IVM8JEM3LMKqcv0e1j9SLhd

[strictlyeuro6]

I recently bought a 2013 s4. Long story, won't bore you guys with the details. I noticed the rattle, did some searching around and come up on this thread.

I picked my car up on Friday July 6th, order EPL stg 1 the same night. Side note EPL is amazing been emailing Chris back and forth amazing customer service would definitely recommend.

My tune arrived tuesday, flashed it from my home. My previous car was 13 gli had stg 2 apr with fbo on it.

The dealership that I bought it from wasn't an audi dealer said there is no CPO warranty on it.

I noticed the rattle the day after I bought it did not think nothing of it.

Call aoa to see what I can do if they can offfer any insight on the tsb. The lady i spoke with said that I still have warranty and it expires at the end of July. Made arrangements with my local Audi dealership, tune the car back to stock, and all said and done it was covered under the CPO warennty. Just got my car back last Wednesday.

Tuned it back to EPL stg1 put 3.5g of e85, topped it off with 93.

And I am loving my s4.

[303 Spartan]

Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

pic I am too lazy to host:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo3YWLqN9IVM8JEM3LMKqcv0e1j9SLhd

That's the first Ive heard of this. But the big TSB job is fixing the rattle, so I find it hard to believe it's that simple of a solution. But, who knows anymore... [:d]

[AudiS4SD]

That's the first Ive heard of this. But the big TSB job is fixing the rattle, so I find it hard to believe it's that simple of a solution. But, who knows anymore... [:d]

I don't know the entire TSB part list, but perhaps this rubber stopper is included, which in turn "fixes" the problem (i.e., are they replacing that part anyway as part of the TSB). Since multiple people are now getting the rattle back after 10-15k miles, is it logical to say (and unusual) that the tensioners would already be loose (a second time) after so few miles? If so, where are the reports of people getting rattles on cars with less than 15k miles TOTAL? Lots of the rattle issues have come after 25k miles or so.

Perhaps a long shot, but it would be great if this is a solution.

[fs454]

Has anyone seen this? Could a spring loaded rubber stopper in the oil filter housing be the actual culprit of this noise?

pic I am too lazy to host:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bo3YWLqN9IVM8JEM3LMKqcv0e1j9SLhd

I mean, that could explain why the dealer couldn’t replicate the rattle in their shop when I brought it in despite it happening multiple times a day for me. They had just done a fresh oil change. Could just be coincidental though. I got them to do the TSB after showing them 5 different videos I took of my car cold starting.

I can’t imagine that this one independent shop cracked the code on such a potential high dollar massive issue for Audi, but it sure would be incredible. I’ll have to check if my oil filter housing was replaced and if any stoppers were on the parts list. Does anyone know the part number for that rubber stopper?

[sb_gli]

Does anyone know the part number for that rubber stopper?

From what the mechanic wrote, "I tore it apart", it sounded like it was part of the oil filter housing.

[sb_gli]

Page 15 shows a diagram of the oil system.

http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com/Docs/SSP/VWUSA.COM_SSP_925803_3.0L_V6_TFSI_Engine.pdf

You would think a spring loaded plug in the oil filter housing would prevent all of the oil passages in the whole engine from draining back into the pan the the engine is off. Maybe because the tensioners are at the highest point of the engine, and they are prone to leaking down first when this passage is not plugged.

[Geomatics_Tech]

I personally think this issue is related to oil pressure. After a fresh oil change I am rattle free for a couple months and then it slowly gets louder and louder over time. I tested this recently by adding a half quart of oil ( been about 3 months since last oil change)after the sound came back, and it did help quiet the rattle. Added another half quart the next day and it went away.

I’m going to try Motul for my next oil change and see if a better oil helps prevent the sound from returning.

I do plan on returning to the dealership to have them look at this rattle again, but I don’t want to lose my car for another month during the summer driving months.

Will update after my dealer visit.

[sciprox]

My 15 has the rattle too. Has there been any update to the TSB from the very first post of this thread. I want to make sure i am going to my dealer with the most updated copy l

[jygesq]

Dealer has the revised TSB, it was extended to 2015 model year, rattle for one to three seconds on initial start up .first version required more than three seconds of noise. Suggest you read that noise has returned aftervvTSB was done of several posters cars.In addition the TSB completion had not been wiith out many complications. There might be a new train of thought it might be caused by a check valve in the oil filter housing. Stay tuned for the next chapter in this saga

[Starman17]

The noise makes way more sense with that oil circuit! I've noticed if parked level the noise is pretty random, downhill it is guaranteed after just a few hours, and then parked uphill it never seems to occur.

I also agree that the noise goes away for a while after an oil change.

https://i.imgur.com/qwSRycO.png

The oil filter housing with the check valve is PN 06E-115-405-K. I did not see anyone's repair sheet listing this part.

However, it sounds and looks like there are several other valves in the oil circuit....so this leak could be anywhere in those too?. Would Audi really not have thought to try replacing those before trying to redesign/replace the tensioners?

[92cpe]

14 s4 with this issue. I agree that its highly dependent on the ground incline. It will not do it if car is parked slightly uphill, will def do it parked downhill, and 50% chance to do it parked level. Stranglely my car also developed a noise which seems to be coming from the oil filter housing when at full operating temp. Its a clicking noise almost like a solenoid or actuator, best way to describe is it sounds like a spark plug firing. Goes away with any application of throttle. I really want to get this issue sorted before going stage2 and beyond. Anyone have any experience with Bell audi in nj doing the tsb and how was the experience?

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[SteveYem]

I echo those reporting that the chain rattle sound at startup seems to be dependent on ambient temperature and incline angle, especially where I've noticed that it is more likely to happen on mine when i am parked nose slightly downhill on a warm day. I also wanted to note that I have been using Mobil 1 0w-40 which the service manager at my local dealership is crap, and he recommended that I add a half quart of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer (I was at least a half quart of oil low at the time) to help with overall engine health when using that thin oil. To my surprise, and maybe it's coincidence, I've been hearing the timing chain rattle a lot less since I added the oil stabilizer. Think there's something to it?

[jygesq]

Is it possible that tensioners are not really the problem? I wonder is 2016 has a different oil system as well as the " improved" tensioners?
You think Audi would do some research. The fix on the Q 7?did not involve tensioners. And is seems less evasive than tearing the engine apart, modifying the oil filter housing seems a bit easier. If in fact it does work to eliminate the noise. My 2015 with 21k miles only does it 3 times a week. I never noticed he noise when I visited my son, as I park the car on a slight incline which forces oil to the rear of the engine were the timing chain resided.

[Corradobrit]

The issue may be more complex than we think which may involve a couple of different facets resulting in the infamous chain slap. All I can say is that chain tensioners were replaced on my car and the rattle has not reoccured. No changes to the oil filter housing.

I agree that Audi should be more proactive with this issue to better understand the root causes.

[jygesq]

The issue may be more complex than we think which may involve a couple of different facets resulting in the infamous chain slap. All I can say is that chain tensioners were replaced on my car and the rattle has not reoccured. No changes to the oil filter housing.

I agree that Audi should be more proactive with this issue to better understand the root causes. How long ago was TSB done?

[Corradobrit]

How long ago was TSB done?

4 months ago

[jygesq]

it gets more and more crazy. This morning after sitting in garage two days, no noise on first time start up. Yearly oil change due tomorrow . Weather is the same ! As stated before it is intermittent when I get noise 22 K miles. Is it really possible some valve in the oil filter is intermittent ?

[eddie_m]

I had my whole timing chain replaced due to excessive rattling. I had to leave my car only an half hour sitting and start up would rattle one day I got the cel light on and I took it to the dealer, diagnose was timing stretch was a big job so far I haven’t seen anyone that had it so bad like my car

I even posted everything that got replaced

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/786683-Timing-chain-stretch


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[handruin]

Does this sound like the chain rattling or is it something else going on? My car sat for a week and I started it in the morning with the hood open. I hear a rattle/buzz sound around 7 seconds in my video.

https://streamable.com/0xtof

[jygesq]

That is an extremely long period of time! how many miles on you 2015? TSB says if rattle is 1-3 seconds on initial startup each day, car qualifies to TSB. Fix which is a newer design tensioners. my 2015 does it for onl a second or two, but not every time on initial start up.TSB is only done if car is in warranty , or CPO warranty. This is major surgery, unless you dealer has lots of experience with the TSB repair, I would be cautious.I have returned from extended vacation, car was in the garage for two weeks and no noise. ALSO two posters have said noise has returned AFTER TSB was done about 6 months later.And many dealers have messed up the repair.Read the entire thread. You decide. There is another thread with shows that it might not be tensioners issue but check valve in oil filter & other check valves in the oil system. That fix related to a Q 7 SUV,that use same engine as our S4. Some also say parking car on an Incline avoids the noise. Others say recent oil changes minimizes the occurrence. I just had an oil change today, and will report if that makes a difference.DEALER HAS assured me they have no history of motors being damaged by the chain rattle.

[fs454]

Does this sound like the chain rattling or is it something else going on? My car sat for a week and I started it in the morning with the hood open. I hear a rattle/buzz sound around 7 seconds in my video.

https://streamable.com/0xtof


Check your oil, and let the car sit overnight outside and record the start again if that’s possible, the echo of the garage makes it tough to hear what’s going on.

But generally if you’re hearing the same chain rattle for 7 seconds that we hear for 1 second, I’d let Audi know ASAP.

[nick0188]

TSB says if rattle is 1-3 seconds on initial startup each day, car qualifies to TSB.

If it rattles for 1-3 seconds it's considered normal. Over that they will perform the TSB.

[Snowmonkey]

If it rattles for 1-3 seconds it's considered normal. Over that they will perform the TSB.

I believe that was before the updated TSB in 2015

[303 Spartan]

Does this sound like the chain rattling or is it something else going on? My car sat for a week and I started it in the morning with the hood open. I hear a rattle/buzz sound around 7 seconds in my video.

https://streamable.com/0xtof

I've listened to your video a few times. The rattle in your video lasts about 2 seconds then clearly stops. The remaining time is just normal sound from the engine. Regardless, that's enough time of rattle to get the TSB done.

[handruin]

I've listened to your video a few times. The rattle in your video lasts about 2 seconds then clearly stops. The remaining time is just normal sound from the engine. Regardless, that's enough time of rattle to get the TSB done.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I meant that the sound I hear started at the 7-second mark in the video, not that it lasted for 7 seconds. I agree the noise lasted for about 2 seconds just as the engine is turning over.

[303 Spartan]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I meant that the sound I hear started at the 7-second mark in the video, not that it lasted for 7 seconds. I agree the noise lasted for about 2 seconds just as the engine is turning over.

My apologies. I misread the post. Your rattle is definitely bad enough to get the TSB done, in my opinion. Yours is almost identical in volume and length to what mine was and my dealer had no problem covering it.

With that said, these recent posts might be on to something with the rattle being fixed without performing the full TSB. I'd follow that recent topic a bit before making any final decisions on what to do.

[fs454]

My apologies. I misread the post. Your rattle is definitely bad enough to get the TSB done, in my opinion. Yours is almost identical in volume and length to what mine was and my dealer had no problem covering it.

With that said, these recent posts might be on to something with the rattle being fixed without performing the full TSB. I'd follow that recent topic a bit before making any final decisions on what to do.

IMO, even if there's a new cause for the rattle where some plug is preventing oil from staying in the upper reaches of the engine when left overnight, if the rattle has been a regular thing with your car it's causing wear on the upper tensioners regardless of there potentially being a way to now stop the rattle. Audi has made redesigned, allegedly more rigid tensioners that you can have installed for free to replace yours that have been slapped by the chain without enough oil for 2-3 seconds every day. Add that time up and it's enough to cause the tensioners or other timing parts to fail earlier than expected later on down the road.

To each their own, but I'd rather have the brand new parts regardless. They did a very clean and satisfactory job on my car and the dealership had said they'd never done this specific TSB repair before.

[handruin]

When you had the work done, did you just go in to the dealer and specifically request the TSB? My warranty is up in October so I'm likely going to give it a try.

[fs454]

When you had the work done, did you just go in to the dealer and specifically request the TSB? My warranty is up in October so I'm likely going to give it a try.

I went in for 45k service and mentioned the rattle in my service notes when I scheduled, and talked to the advisor with concern about it. He asked if he could hear the problem in the lot right now and we tried, and the car didn't do it because it was warmed up already. I showed him 2-3 different cold start videos I had taken on my phone (quiet area, not in a garage, parked next to a wall or side of your house to help reflect the sound for the phone's crappy mics) where it was very clear that there was an odd sound at startup and he agreed they'd begin to explore the issue. They called a couple days later and said the foreman couldn't reproduce the issue and to email over the videos I had shown him. After getting them a dropbox link they said they found the TSB and AOA had approved the repair under CPO - took just over a week from there to get the car back. Note I have zero mods on the car, never been tuned, and I had just bought it CPO from Audi at the same dealership 6000 miles prior to taking it in for the issue. A clean deep ECU scan probably helps my case here.

I'd go in with genuine concern and enough video evidence to show them, and if you don't get traction at all maybe begin mentioning the TSB. I think they're a little more weary against granting you repairs if you claim to be an internet-smartypants and know all about the TSB and a bunch of people who've had the work done, but if you get nowhere I'd maybe mention you've got a friend with the same car who had the work done by Audi, and oh look you also found this TSB that says to repair the rattle with updated parts etc.

This is two of the videos I sent them:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kexy8oc3aw2yjr7/AACRq9mR8QUoqB6NGOGSTdnQa?dl=0

The first one is the startup sound, and the second one was a continuous chain rattle I was able to make happen if the car was in neutral or parked and the RPMs were brought just above 1000. They didn't consider this a related issue (even though it definitely was), and this continuous sound went away entirely (and the whole engine quieted up considerably, the chain must have been a bit looser than spec honestly) after the TSB was done.

Another notable detail is that once they got my old tensioners out they did say that they had excessive wear and that they were glad they caught it at this time.

edit: damn, after watching that video one month after the TSB was done, I should record what it sounds like now. It's so much quieter and more healthy sounding.

[handruin]

Fantastic, thanks for the detailed writeup on how you were able to get this dealt with. I'll certainly take it from the perspective of playing dumb with a little bit of research indicating what my concern may be and see how they want to proceed.

I'll let my car sit a weekend outside and use my better audio recorder to capture the sound better so that it's more remarkable than the crappy video I capture. I've definitely been hearing this sound more than one but I don't typically hear it if the car has only sat overnight in my garage (which is pretty level).

[fs454]

Fantastic, thanks for the detailed writeup on how you were able to get this dealt with. I'll certainly take it from the perspective of playing dumb with a little bit of research indicating what my concern may be and see how they want to proceed.

I'll let my car sit a weekend outside and use my better audio recorder to capture the sound better so that it's more remarkable than the crappy video I capture. I've definitely been hearing this sound more than one but I don't typically hear it if the car has only sat overnight in my garage (which is pretty level).


Anytime! It was a bit of a crapshoot on my car too, sometimes I'd get the sound 2-3 times per day, like if I went to the mall or grocery store it'd do it on the way out as well as in the morning, and other days it wouldn't do it at all. I started recording every single start of the car until I had enough rattles.

And for the record in case this helps anyone, this is the work order and parts list that pertained to the TSB work. I think the valve cover gasket leaks are due to them having to remove and replace them as part of getting access to upper timing area, those gaskets are usually one and done.
https://i.imgur.com/NiOi1iP.jpg

[Dskvid]

My car does this to, only in the morning or after sitting for a long while ,About 1-2 seconds of noise. Could it be as simple and the oil has drained done to the oil pan and it takes a few seconds to recurculate though the engine? Has anyone tried adding a oil treatment thats supposed to hang out on parts longer, like Lucust Oil Treatment? I was thinking of trying that as my cay is at 70k and out of warranty.

[fs454]

My car does this to, only in the morning or after sitting for a long while ,About 1-2 seconds of noise. Could it be as simple and the oil has drained done to the oil pan and it takes a few seconds to recurculate though the engine? Has anyone tried adding a oil treatment thats supposed to hang out on parts longer, like Lucust Oil Treatment? I was thinking of trying that as my cay is at 70k and out of warranty.


This is kind of the issue, the oil pressure doesn't remain in the tensioner to hold the chain where it needs to be - the tensioner isn't a static part, there's somewhat of a hydraulic piece that pushes the tensioner arm out via oil pressure to tension the chain - at the end of the day, this causes wear on the tensioner because the chain is literally slapping against it every day until the oil reaches that piece again and that all adds up to a worn part that may eventually fail. I would say it can't hurt to try an oil treatment and we don't fully 100% know all of the outcomes of this issue until more time goes by, but if your car is doing this a lot I would look at getting fresh tensioners put in at an indy shop at some point in the future. Audi did say my tensioners were abnormally worn on my '14.

Someone really needs to do a full analysis on this before it starts causing damage. I would have loved to see my tensioners and it would have helped the community a bunch but Audi didn't want to show the worn parts. If you or anyone decides to get this done by an indie shop it would be really, really great to document what stock tensioners look like coming out of an engine at higher mileage, if there's any wear done to the chain or other timing components, and stuff like that. It'll really be what tells us how serious this issue is and if this is going to become a regular service item or something we can relatively ignore and change at long intervals.

[jygesq]

some posters have thought fresh oil reduces the occurrence. I had an oil change last TUESDAY, I have heard the noise 2 x at initial start up for a few seconds, since Then. Since several owners have said noise has come back after the TSB has been completed, getting the TSB done is not an option. I reported the symptom to my dealer at my 35k service, which was done at 21 k miles. It seems AUDI has no idea of the cause &!remedy. My warranty runs out in NOVEMBER, BUT my 88 K platinum extended warranty expires Jan 2024.

[TheAsset]

Sounds like you're screwed then. Way to take advantage of your warranty...

[whoanelly223]

Count me as happy too, tech told me that he noticed that one of the timing chain guides had broken (no comment if it was during the repair) but they were all replaced. 2500m with no CEL's or other issues to report.

[jerseyboosted91]

Audi of America will be coming out with a public service announcement for the timing chain. They just released a statement for the Volkswagen side for the timing chain with a 10 year 100k mike warranty.


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[AudiS4SD]

Audi of America will be coming out with a public service announcement for the timing chain. They just released a statement for the Volkswagen side for the timing chain with a 10 year 100k mike warranty.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Well that's very interesting! If so, I wonder how they will handle the fixes...whether follow the current TSB or use a modified procedure (since some people have had the rattle return after "fix").

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[Corradobrit]

Audi of America will be coming out with a public service announcement for the timing chain. They just released a statement for the Volkswagen side for the timing chain with a 10 year 100k mike warranty.


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Subscribed.

Maybe there is more to this issue than we are privy. Audi must have accumulated a considerable amount of data based on the parts being replaced and inspected. They would not make this adjustment lightly.

[jackhammer909]

Audi of America will be coming out with a public service announcement for the timing chain. They just released a statement for the Volkswagen side for the timing chain with a 10 year 100k mike warranty.


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do you have a link to the VW statement?

[Corradobrit]

Connected to this? Seems related to the 2.0T not the 3.0T though
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/vw-timing-chain-class-action-lawsuit.shtml

[jygesq]

Even dealerships service departments have volunteered that 2.0 l engines grenade at about 80k miles, claims 3.0 v6 do not do that.

[jerseyboosted91]

do you have a link to the VW statement?

Yeah I can get you one tomorrow when I get back into the office.


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[jerseyboosted91]

Www.timingchainlitigation.com


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[CrownSeven]

Www.timingchainlitigation.com


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That has nothing to do with our cars. Again there is no timing chain issue on the 3.0t. This motor has been around for how long now 10 years? How many timing chain failures have their been in that time?

[SteveYem]

My car does this to, only in the morning or after sitting for a long while ,About 1-2 seconds of noise. Could it be as simple and the oil has drained done to the oil pan and it takes a few seconds to recurculate though the engine? Has anyone tried adding a oil treatment thats supposed to hang out on parts longer, like Lucust Oil Treatment? I was thinking of trying that as my cay is at 70k and out of warranty.

I recently added half a quart of Lucas Oil Treatment to my 2015 S4 and have noticed a reduction in the occurrence of the sound at startup, although it has not solved the issue completely. The service manager at my local dealership also told me that he thinks Mobil 1 is junk and recommended that I switch to something better for sake of the engine's longevity. I'm just about out of Mobil 1 so for my next oil change I'm going to follow his recommendation and use Castrol Syntec (that's what he says the Audi shop uses) and see if the sound changes at all.

[jerseyboosted91]

That has nothing to do with our cars. Again there is no timing chain issue on the 3.0t. This motor has been around for how long now 10 years? How many timing chain failures have their been in that time?

That’s why I said prior to this Audi should be coming out with something soon. This was just released yesterday for Volkswagen.


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[BOPOH]

That has nothing to do with our cars. Again there is no timing chain issue on the 3.0t. This motor has been around for how long now 10 years? How many timing chain failures have their been in that time?

if you are so confident that it has nothing to do with our cars/engine, how many timing chain failures have occurred? Is it possible that you just dont know and making an assumption?

[CrownSeven]

That’s why I said prior to this Audi should be coming out with something soon. This was just released yesterday for Volkswagen.


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Im sure they will. For the 2.0t that are in plenty of audis.

[CrownSeven]

if you are so confident that it has nothing to do with our cars/engine, how many timing chain failures have occurred? Is it possible that you just dont know and making an assumption?

Present me with some facts then. Please tell me how the timing chains/guides whatever are at fault. Because I have seen none. The only fact is there is a 1-2 second noise that sometime occurs on startup. A noise that is still present after changing the bloody timing chain/guides

I’m waiting.

[BOPOH]

Present me with some facts then. Please tell me how the timing chains/guides whatever are at fault. Because I have seen none. The only fact is there is a 1-2 second noise that sometime occurs on startup. A noise that is still present after changing the bloody timing chain/guides

I’m waiting.

I'm asking you. I'm curious why are you so sure in your opinion, is it based on facts or just because you don't know of any instances you make everyone believe that there is no issue?


That has nothing to do with our cars. - Proof?

[Corradobrit]

A noise that is still present after changing the bloody timing chain/guides

I’m waiting.

Not true in majority of cases. 5 months post TSB and my car is still rattle-free.

[fs454]

Present me with some facts then. Please tell me how the timing chains/guides whatever are at fault. Because I have seen none. The only fact is there is a 1-2 second noise that sometime occurs on startup. A noise that is still present after changing the bloody timing chain/guides

I’m waiting.



Classic case of "You can't prove it's NOT true!11" born out of this new age of horrible politics, complete with an "I'm waiting" as if we have something to prove to someone who must know better than us!

Simple facts being timing noise, Audi confirmed worn guides upon disassembly, Audi willing to perform 20+ hours of labor out of pocket, parts lists show tensioners replaced, no more noise. If you're just trying to be aggressive because you've got the noise and no warranty, I don't know what to tell you. The 3.2 FSI on which this engine is more than 80% based has known timing chain tensioner issues (or more specifically, premature upper tensioner wear leading to rattle and timing jump if not corrected) and is extremely well documented. It's not some catastrophic diesel-gate type recall phenomenon, but it's not something to ignore either. No well-maintained vehicle with ~40k on the clock should be even a little bit slapping the timing chain, and you bet as the miles rack up that's increasing wear on all of those crucial parts back there much faster than typical. Moral of the story here, if you've got a rattle and no warranty, replace the tensioners when you can, not never. Maybe this means 100k, but I wouldn't go over that.

You're playing a dangerous game if you feel you can safely go more than 100k on rattling tensioners, especially in a performance car that gets driven hard, just based on your random gut feeling. Treat the maintenance schedule like a timing belt. Or don't, I guess.

[SteveYem]

I had the TSB work done in December 2017 and the noise has returned. I took the car back in a few weeks ago and they said they were unable to reproduce the issue. With my warranty about to expire next month, I expressed my concerns and the service manager told me that they have it noted in their system that I reported this issue while still under the original factory warranty, so they would be able to cover any necessary repairs if it continues to worsen to an actionable condition post warranty expiration. I don't have high hopes but we shall see. If Audi Corporate issues a letter addressing the issue and extending coverage, I'd feel much more confident.

[TheAsset]

Classic case of "You can't prove it's NOT true!11" born out of this new age of horrible politics, complete with an "I'm waiting" as if we have something to prove to someone who must know better than us!

Simple facts being timing noise, Audi confirmed worn guides upon disassembly, Audi willing to perform 20+ hours of labor out of pocket, parts lists show tensioners replaced, no more noise. If you're just trying to be aggressive because you've got the noise and no warranty, I don't know what to tell you. The 3.2 FSI on which this engine is more than 80% based has known timing chain tensioner issues (or more specifically, premature upper tensioner wear leading to rattle and timing jump if not corrected) and is extremely well documented. It's not some catastrophic diesel-gate type recall phenomenon, but it's not something to ignore either. No well-maintained vehicle with ~40k on the clock should be even a little bit slapping the timing chain, and you bet as the miles rack up that's increasing wear on all of those crucial parts back there much faster than typical. Moral of the story here, if you've got a rattle and no warranty, replace the tensioners when you can, not never. Maybe this means 100k, but I wouldn't go over that.

You're playing a dangerous game if you feel you can safely go more than 100k on rattling tensioners, especially in a performance car that gets driven hard, just based on your random gut feeling. Treat the maintenance schedule like a timing belt. Or don't, I guess.

It blows my mind how naive some people can be, these cars were around $60k brand new. No way in hell a chain should be slapping around on anything for any amount of time. Then add in all the people going Stage X with no cooling mods and oil as thin as water and you have a great recipe for depreciation and empty wallets. Luckily it's not my money.


I had the TSB work done in December 2017 and the noise has returned. I took the car back in a few weeks ago and they said they were unable to reproduce the issue. With my warranty about to expire next month, I expressed my concerns and the service manager told me that they have it noted in their system that I reported this issue while still under the original factory warranty, so they would be able to cover any necessary repairs if it continues to worsen to an actionable condition post warranty expiration. I don't have high hopes but we shall see. If Audi Corporate issues a letter addressing the issue and extending coverage, I'd feel much more confident.

Did they keep the car overnight?

[SteveYem]

Did they keep the car overnight?


Yes, but I have no idea if they checked it again the morning after. The service manager offered for me to come back in the near future and personally take a look/listen with me, so I'm going to take him up on that offer.

[Slamdgti]

Just dropped mine off for this TSB. I’ll keep everyone posted. My original appointment was pushed a few weeks to wait until the 3.0T expert was available. They have done a few so I’m confident things will go well. 🤞🏼https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180829/24111c440dc23e1bca1256596018a3c7.jpg

[doughboy17]

Just dropped mine off for this TSB. I’ll keep everyone posted. My original appointment was pushed a few weeks to wait until the 3.0T expert was available. They have done a few so I’m confident things will go well. 🤞🏼https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180829/24111c440dc23e1bca1256596018a3c7.jpg

Gorgeous car! Best wishes on the TSB.

[Omyn.S5]

Just dropped mine off for this TSB. I’ll keep everyone posted. My original appointment was pushed a few weeks to wait until the 3.0T expert was available. They have done a few so I’m confident things will go well. 🤞🏼

Is that Autohaus in Lancaster? Small world, I'm also in York. I hope all goes well, I haven't had the best experience with them.

My "intermittent" and "just a noise" problem has now become a constant chain rattle. Car has around 100k miles on it. I'm attempting this myself and I'm in the middle of the job now. I'll keep you guys posted. I've taken a ton of pictures so far and will be sure to take pictures of what 100,000 miles of wear on the tensioner and guides looks like.


https://i.imgur.com/BwzYhRY.jpg

[CrownSeven]

Is that Autohaus in Lancaster? Small world, I'm also in York. I hope all goes well, I haven't had the best experience with them.

My "intermittent" and "just a noise" problem has now become a constant chain rattle. Car has around 100k miles on it. I'm attempting this myself and I'm in the middle of the job now. I'll keep you guys posted. I've taken a ton of pictures so far and will be sure to take pictures of what 100,000 miles of wear on the tensioner and guides looks like.


https://i.imgur.com/BwzYhRY.jpg

See heres proof that our engines are ticking time bombs. Someones timing chain is actually going! Hurry lets all go tear apart our motors its gonna blow!

Seriously though good luck with that curious to see what you find and how long it takes for the noise to return after.

And Ill stop with my ‘naivety’ and keep my mouth shut going forward on this topic.

[Slamdgti]

Is that Autohaus in Lancaster? Small world, I'm also in York. I hope all goes well, I haven't had the best experience with them.

My "intermittent" and "just a noise" problem has now become a constant chain rattle. Car has around 100k miles on it. I'm attempting this myself and I'm in the middle of the job now. I'll keep you guys posted. I've taken a ton of pictures so far and will be sure to take pictures of what 100,000 miles of wear on the tensioner and guides looks like.


https://i.imgur.com/BwzYhRY.jpg
Yeah it’s Autohaus. I have a little pull there because my very close friend is a service manager at York VW. He calls over to make sure they take care of me and for some reason they listen!!! I’m not too worried. I earned a lot of respect for them admitting a it’s a big job and only 2 techs qualified to complete. Because of this they delayed my appointment.

Good luck with yours and I hope it’s smooth sailing. If I wasn’t under warranty I’d be doing the same. I thought long and hard about waiting but decided to jump under warranty. I have a feeling this rattle is more serious then what Audi is making it out to be.

I asked for picture updates so if I get them they will be posted. Anything to help the community!!

[Slamdgti]

Gorgeous car! Best wishes on the TSB.

Thanks!!!

[Spacegrau]

Is that Autohaus in Lancaster? Small world, I'm also in York. I hope all goes well, I haven't had the best experience with them.

My "intermittent" and "just a noise" problem has now become a constant chain rattle. Car has around 100k miles on it. I'm attempting this myself and I'm in the middle of the job now. I'll keep you guys posted. I've taken a ton of pictures so far and will be sure to take pictures of what 100,000 miles of wear on the tensioner and guides looks like.


https://i.imgur.com/BwzYhRY.jpg

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Very curious to see what you find!

[rvcahawaii808]

FWIW, i called my service guy last friday. dropped it off over the weekend. they verified the noise monday morning and he told me it would be about it week. hopefully i get a phone call here today or tomorrow saying its all done.

my rattle was very noticeable on the cold start. i only had 40k miles

[ValidatedS4]

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Very curious to see what you find!

I'm sub to figure out what you find as well..

I'm at 140k and the rattle is very annoying. It's not constant though (yet). I still need to do a PVC, thermostat, waterpump and carbon cleaning. Might see what you find and bang this all out in one job.

Interested to see what you think the level of difficulty this will be for a DYI.

[Ginge247]

I'm in the UK with 2010 model. It's had the rattle for about a year now just on cold start ups. It lasts for about a minute so it's obvious that it does get worse, even though Audi say it doesn't. I have no warranty so been looking for some quotes for the work. Lookers Audi have quoted me between £6000-7000 and they have told me they know of no TSB for my car and this matter. There is a local specialist that has quoted a more realistic £2500. All this bull about more frequent oil changes helping to reduce the wear rate is nonsense. My car is a one owner with full history and in the 2 and half years I've had it, it's had 5 oil changes. So now I get to look at it every day as I walk past it and drive my wife's skoda citigo!!

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[Corradobrit]

I'm in the UK with 2010 model. It's had the rattle for about a year now just on cold start ups. It lasts for about a minute so it's obvious that it does get worse, even though Audi say it doesn't. I have no warranty so been looking for some quotes for the work. Lookers Audi have quoted me between £6000-7000 and they have told me they know of no TSB for my car and this matter. There is a local specialist that has quoted a more realistic £2500. All this bull about more frequent oil changes helping to reduce the wear rate is nonsense. My car is a one owner with full history and in the 2 and half years I've had it, it's had 5 oil changes. So now I get to look at it every day as I walk past it and drive my wife's skoda citigo!!

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How many miles? Does the £2500 include parts or just labour? What sort of post-service warranty do they offer? The Audi warranty is 12K miles, 12 months.

[Ginge247]

How many miles?91k

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[ambesolman]

Don't know if this is really relevant to our chain situation or Audi, but figured I'd put it out there just in case.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/ff49f3c1984644bf07557fa19cf94cb2.png


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[Slamdgti]

Update,
dealer contacted today and need to keep the car until Tuesday. No biggie as I thought 2 days seemed a little lite. Also got the class action letter from my previous 2011 A4 for timing chain issue. Could be something similar with this at some point for 09-16 3.0T.

[Ginge247]

How many miles? Does the £2500 include parts or just labour? What sort of post-service warranty do they offer? The Audi warranty is 12K miles, 12 months.The £2500 is parts and labour. Don't know about the after care but from my previous experiences any warranty is pointless on a modified vehicle. I'll be going down to his garage to have a chat with him before making any decisions. Audi just isn't a viable option at that kind of money though, I'd be better off just getting rid.

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[92cpe]

Car is going in to have it looked at for this on tuesday. The dealer is aware of the tsb but was unsure if they had done any 3.0t yet. Im on the fence whether i should do it or not. I would feel better about it if incould speak to a tech that has hopefully done these. It seems outside of these forums, this rattle is considered normal. However dealer said they would definately do it if the symptoms match the tsb.

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[romanrnd]

Don't know if this is really relevant to our chain situation or Audi, but figured I'd put it out there just in case.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/ff49f3c1984644bf07557fa19cf94cb2.png


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"If approved, the potential VW settlement deal....."
So basically this is in the works.
Gives me some hope because I really don't want to pay for this out of pocket...

[jygesq]

That is a settlement on class action suit against VW for 2.0 motors in VW NOT our 3 .0 v-6 engine. Maybe a suit latter if our issue does not get resolved and a class action is brought against AUDI .

[jygesq]

Review the entire group of posts. Many have has problems with the FIX, timing issues ,leaks. But most concerning , that noise has returned in cars of several owners after 6 months.

[303 Spartan]

Review the entire group of posts. Many have has problems with the FIX, timing issues ,leaks. But most concerning , that noise has returned in cars of several owners after 6 months.

It only took 3 months for my timing chain rattle noise to return. It's much less consistent but it's back to being just as loud. I had my car sitting on jack stands for 3 days while I did some suspension work and installed my new HX. The first install after letting the car sit that long, resulting in my timing chain rattle showing back up at the same volume as prior to getting the TSB done. However, with at least 1 daily start since then the sound hasn't returned. Regardless, it's obnoxious and if I had known this was going to be the result I never would have gone through the hassle in the first place, which included multiple dealer visits in my case.

[Ginge247]

It only took 3 months for my timing chain rattle noise to return. It's much less consistent but it's back to being just as loud. I had my car sitting on jack stands for 3 days while I did some suspension work and installed my new HX. The first install after letting the car sit that long, resulting in my timing chain rattle showing back up at the same volume as prior to getting the TSB done. However, with at least 1 daily start since then the sound hasn't returned. Regardless, it's obnoxious and if I had known this was going to be the result I never would have gone through the hassle in the first place, which included multiple dealer visits in my case.I would agree with you m8 if mine had stayed at making the noise for only 3-5 seconds. Unfortunately it does get a lot worse if left. Having the chain or chains rattling about for nearly a minute can't be doing it any good.

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[303 Spartan]

I would agree with you m8 if mine had stayed at making the noise for only 3-5 seconds. Unfortunately it does get a lot worse if left. Having the chain or chains rattling about for nearly a minute can't be going it any good.

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Yikes. Yeh I wouldn't leave that either. a couple seconds is annoying but I can live with it. 1 full minute of that rattle is sure to cause issues relatively fast.

[Ginge247]

Yikes. Yeh I wouldn't leave that either. a couple seconds is annoying but I can live with it. 1 full minute of that rattle is sure to cause issues relatively fast.Yeah m8 it's quite unnerving. It's silent once it's warm though [emoji23]

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[TheAsset]

Review the entire group of posts. Many have has problems with the FIX, timing issues ,leaks. But most concerning , that noise has returned in cars of several owners after 6 months.

Good thing it's all still covered under warranty regardless. You get a loaner car and everything is fixed for free. I'm not sure why anyone would opt out of getting this fixed.

[jygesq]

Good thing it's all still covered under warranty regardless. You get a loaner car and everything is fixed for free. I'm not sure why anyone would opt out of getting this fixed.
One poster returned car to dealer wHO did the TSB AND dealer claimed no noise was present. He was denied re repair. If the TSB does not fix the issue, why subject your car to a fix that is not really a fix.? Even if the dealer tech had experience and does the TSB flawlessly, WHY go through it. . I POINTED the TSB to my dealer and it was noted on my repair order at my 35 k service. With all that is involved and with all the possible issues that could occur if the TSB is not done correctly AND that noise has returned after some 6 months after the TSB is completed, why go through it...

[Corradobrit]

One poster returned car to dealer wHO did the TSB AND dealer claimed no noise was present. He was denied re repair. If the TSB does not fix the issue, why subject your car to a fix that is not really a fix.? Even if the dealer tech had experience and does the TSB flawlessly, WHY go through it. . I POINTED the TSB to my dealer and it was noted on my repair order at my 35 k service. With all that is involved and with all the possible issues that could occur if the TSB is not done correctly AND that noise has returned after some 6 months after the TSB is completed, why go through it...

You're assuming all cars that get the TSB had the noise return, but that is not the reality. I'm glad I had the TSB done under warranty.

[jygesq]

No we have reports that some cars have had noise return, time will tell is is a permanent fix for all who have had TSB done.

[Johnnycash]

No we have reports that some cars have had noise return, time will tell is is a permanent fix for all who have had TSB done.

dude no offense, but you have hyper paranoid personality, you might be better off just getting rid of your car and buying a honda.

[jygesq]

dude no offense, but you have hyper paranoid personality, you might be better off just getting rid of your car and buying a honda.
Not to get into a posting war with you, but just setting forth the history with this TSB, My 2015. S4,has been the best car I have every owned. No car is perfect. But AUDI continues to have problems with timing chain systems. One would think Audi would design engines with an awareness of it past history.

[Johnnycash]

Not to get into a posting war with you, but just setting forth the history with this TSB, My 2015. S4,has been the best car I have every owned. No car is perfect. But AUDI continues to have problems with timing chain systems. One would think Audi would design engines with an awareness of it past history.

i completely agree!

my engine grenaded on me at 100k with no forewarning, car was meticulously maintained.

my thought is to get the tsb if you can and if you have issues down the road it already has a history of the issue...

[AudiS4SD]

Any updates or information if Audi will be releasing a similar recall/fix as the 2.0 engines?

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[jygesq]

Any updates or information if Audi will be releasing a similar recall/fix as the 2.0 engines?

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That action on the 2. L engine was caused by a successful class action suit against VW/AUDI. Up until now a class action suit on the 3.0 v-6 has not happened . There is more trouble for AUDI WITH THE new 3.0 v-6 turbo engine , than with our v-6 supercharged engines. Some of those have had catastrophic failures caused by excessive pinging on hills. Go to b9 S4 section . Follow topic , blown engines. Most had less than 10k miles on them. Some say the low viscosity oil at high temps caused by Turbo might contribute to failure .

[AudiS4SD]

That action on the 2. L engine was caused by a successful class action suit against VW/AUDI. Up until now a class action suit on the 3.0 v-6 has not happened . There is more trouble for AUDI WITH THE new 3.0 v-6 turbo engine , than with our v-6 supercharged engines. Some of those have had catastrophic failures caused by excessive pinging on hills. Go to b9 S4 section . Follow topic , blown engines. Most had less than 10k miles on them. Some say the low viscosity oil at high temps caused by Turbo might contribute to failure .

Yes, I'm actually subbed to the B9 thread as I'm curious to see what happens there as well. Looks like nothing but engine problems all around. It's just crazy that there is no DEFINITIVE solutions to our chain rattle. Yes, the TSB will fix it, but as we have seen the rattle returns in some cases. Mind-blowing really given the exposure this issue as caused. I guess we'll standby to standby!

[Corradobrit]

Audi of America will be coming out with a public service announcement for the timing chain. They just released a statement for the Volkswagen side for the timing chain with a 10 year 100k mike warranty.




Still waiting to hear from this guy who seems to know more than most of us.

[jerseyboosted91]

Still waiting to hear from this guy who seems to know more than most of us.

I never said I knew a lot more information than anyone or anything like that. I’ve heard only rumors in the past from Volkswagen about this timing chain back in 2011-12 and now they finally released a statement. It’s only a mater of time before Audi releases something as well.


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[Corradobrit]

Ohh, guess I misread the post

[jackhammer909]

I never said I knew a lot more information than anyone or anything like that. I’ve heard only rumors in the past from Volkswagen about this timing chain back in 2011-12 and now they finally released a statement. It’s only a mater of time before Audi releases something as well.


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I read "about this timing chain"as being the timing chain in our 3.0T engines, or the parent enigne design.

I don't think the "recent statement" applies to our motor design. the 2.0T engine uses an entirely differernt timing chain system AFAIK.

[jerseyboosted91]

I read "about this timing chain"as being the timing chain in our 3.0T engines, or the parent enigne design.

I don't think the "recent statement" applies to our motor design. the 2.0T engine uses an entirely differernt timing chain system AFAIK.

Correct but what I am trying to say is... If Volkswagen just came something out on their end with the timing chain then I am sure Audi will have something coming out sooner or later for our timing chain.


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[Starman17]

I think that would only happen if chain failures were common in our engine. So far that doesn't seem to be the case, and the engine was used in a bunch of models for many years.

[jygesq]

I think that would only happen if chain failures were common in our engine. So far that doesn't seem to be the case, and the engine was used in a bunch of models for many years.
And if a class action suit against Audi/ VW was successful and it was required under the terms of the settlement.

[weave]

Just a quick headsup, i owe you guys who started this and whoever put a copy of the TSB. Everyone said the rattles is normal where ever I asked before i came across this post. When I saw the TSB here everything kicked in. I made multiple videos of the cold starts even semi-cold I could get some rattle. I spoke with my most trusted dealer in my area they did not argue at all, in fact they were pleased to do the whole job, they are well aware of the issue they had done a bunch previously. So they changed the chain tensioners about 12 hours of labor just for this, then someone here spoke about the 1k RPM with vibration the trans on P, I had the same issue, apparantly its a problem from the downpipe, they were please to change that do, that fixed the 1k RPM vibration. My car was still under warranty just so you know, the only charge i had was the 20L of gaz I put in the B9 A4 I was borrowed.

Feel free if you have any question

[Spacegrau]

Just a quick headsup, i owe you guys who started this and whoever put a copy of the TSB. Everyone said the rattles is normal where ever I asked before i came across this post. When I saw the TSB here everything kicked in. I made multiple videos of the cold starts even semi-cold I could get some rattle. I spoke with my most trusted dealer in my area they did not argue at all, in fact they were pleased to do the whole job, they are well aware of the issue they had done a bunch previously. So they changed the chain tensioners about 12 hours of labor just for this, then someone here spoke about the 1k RPM with vibration the trans on P, I had the same issue, apparantly its a problem from the downpipe, they were please to change that do, that fixed the 1k RPM vibration. My car was still under warranty just so you know, the only charge i had was the 20L of gaz I put in the B9 A4 I was borrowed.

Feel free if you have any question

Hey, you had this done in Montreal?
I've had no cooperation on this issue in Ottawa. Do you think you can put me in touch with the same dealer and SA who worked on your issue? I clearly have the rattle and have videos:

https://youtu.be/dPMS0BKrwMo
https://youtu.be/-nEMvSwJV0U

Cheers!

[weave]

Hey, you had this done in Montreal?
I've had no cooperation on this issue in Ottawa. Do you think you can put me in touch with the same dealer and SA who worked on your issue? I clearly have the rattle and have videos:

https://youtu.be/dPMS0BKrwMo
https://youtu.be/-nEMvSwJV0U

Cheers!

Did you tell them about the TSB and sent your videos? Its pretty clear you have the issue in the videos above. I'd definitely call another dealer I was you, from my experience they are very different on many levels. The job was done at Audi Blainville (30mins north montreal) they are part of Audi Lauzon group which is located in Laval, you could give it a try not sure if the fact you're from ON makes a difference. LEmme know

[rvcahawaii808]

idk if i just got lucky with my dealership or not. but i just got my car back. no rattle at all. they accepted my car no questions asked. took them just under 2 weeks though.

reading through here made it seem like i was going to have to really fight them to get them to fix it.

[92cpe]

Having mine done now. They said 1-2 weeks. Hopefully all goes well.

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[rvcahawaii808]

also for more information. i assumed they would just pull the engine in order to get to it, but my service guy told me that they actually drop the transmission in order to get to it. not sure if my dealership just does it that way, but FYI.

[Slamdgti]

My cars been at the dealer for 10 days. Service manager says ready Monday & sent a pic today. I assume they worked on my car in between other jobs. No big deal since they provided a 2018 Q5 to cruise around.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/7c0e178760683ab6cf394cb5bb4302cc.png

[Ginge247]

My cars been at the dealer for 10 days. Service manager says ready Monday & sent a pic today. I assume they worked on my car in between other jobs. No big deal since they provided a 2018 Q5 to cruise around.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180908/7c0e178760683ab6cf394cb5bb4302cc.pngLooks like they have left the engine in and dropped the box instead. From all the other photos I've seen Audi's preferred method tends to be dropping the whole subframe. Dropping the box has to be easier surely

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[Slamdgti]

Looks like they have left the engine in and dropped the box instead. From all the other photos I've seen Audi's preferred method tends to be dropping the whole subframe. Dropping the box has to be easier surely

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I believe you’re right with dropping the Transmission/gearbox. The tech completing is apparently a 3.0T genius. I’d rather keep the motor in if I was completing. Less tare down with less risk. Hopefully picking up tonight. Yaaay!!!!

[rvcahawaii808]

I believe you’re right with dropping the Transmission/gearbox. The tech completing is apparently a 3.0T genius. I’d rather keep the motor in if I was completing. Less tare down with less risk. Hopefully picking up tonight. Yaaay!!!!



this is how they did mine. i guess i do feel better that they dont pull the whole engine.

[Slamdgti]

Assumed it was done and drove 20 min to the dealer but nope, not done. Going on day 12 so safe to say the jobs not priority. Might have it back this week.

[303 Spartan]

Assumed it was done and drove 20 min to the dealer but nope, not done. Going on day 12 so safe to say the jobs not priority. Might have it back this week.

Hopefully this just means they're being thorough. My dealer tried to cut corners, which resulted in 3 additional trips back to the dealer with CELs over the next 4 months. It was terrible. I damn near traded the car in on the final visit.

But things have been great ever since. Aside from the cold start rattle returning if the car sits for more than 24 hours. [=(] But, I'm over it, at this point.

[Corradobrit]

Curious if anyone has actually done a followup on the oil filter spring to see if that could be contributing to the problem. My rattle disappeared after the TSB but for those that had it return or out of warranty, it would be worth checking out to see if there is anything to it.

[KLad]

Had mine done about 3 months after I bought the car. The weird rattle was concerning and thanks to this thread I was able to bring the right information to the dealer. Car was serviced at Audi Lauzon in Laval, Quebec. No questions asked more importantly no resistance from the service manager. From time to time I still listen carefully during cold starts to see if the sound has returned. But so far it’s been fine.

[Slamdgti]

Got an update today. Technician working on the car is off this week. It’s a little irritating but world rather have the same tech finish up. Dropped off on 8/29. Started on 8/30. Expected return date 9/17 for a 12-14 hour job. Back to rolling the 2018 Q5 loaner car. I did get an apology from the service manager so that’s nice. I just want Big Blue back in the driveway.

[doughboy17]

It stinks, but be patient. Actually, AoA pays them for only 12-14 hrs. of work; the job is actually 18-30 hrs.

[Slamdgti]

It stinks, but be patient. Actually, AoA pays them for only 12-14 hrs. of work; the job is actually 18-30 hrs.

Oh wow, I didn’t know it was that many hours! This makes me feel a little better about the timeline then.

[rvcahawaii808]

does anyone know if this job requires them to drain the engine oil? my tpms light came on so i was going through the menus and i happened to check the oil level and it is barely above the minimum line. im going to top it off tonight, but im wondering if its possible i burned that much in the 4 days ive had it back or if they didnt refill it all the way?

[doughboy17]

does anyone know if this job requires them to drain the engine oil? my tpms light came on so i was going through the menus and i happened to check the oil level and it is barely above the minimum line. im going to top it off tonight, but im wondering if its possible i burned that much in the 4 days ive had it back or if they didnt refill it all the way?

Yes. when done according to Audi's instructions, the oil should be topped off, if not changed.

[303 Spartan]

does anyone know if this job requires them to drain the engine oil? my tpms light came on so i was going through the menus and i happened to check the oil level and it is barely above the minimum line. im going to top it off tonight, but im wondering if its possible i burned that much in the 4 days ive had it back or if they didnt refill it all the way?

Yes, and for what it's worth, I noticed the same thing after the service. They just put enough oil in to barely get above the 'empty' line. I promptly changed the oil again and watched to see if the car burned any more oil than it did prior to the TSB. However, it still remains at the 'max' line all the way through a 5k mile interval. So I'm sure the dealer is just putting a bit less oil in than they should.

[rvcahawaii808]

Yes, and for what it's worth, I noticed the same thing after the service. They just put enough oil in to barely get above the 'empty' line. I promptly changed the oil again and watched to see if the car burned any more oil than it did prior to the TSB. However, it still remains at the 'max' line all the way through a 5k mile interval. So I'm sure the dealer is just putting a bit less oil in than they should.

ok thanks. i have some liqui moly at home. is it alright for me to mix and top it off or should i just change it all myself?

also, about how much did you add to go from min --> max?

[Ginge247]

Well I've bit the bullet and booked mine in for this Monday the 17th. No warranty so I'm paying for the lot. Getting all 3 chains changed along with all the tensioners and guides. It's an Indy specialist so I'm gunna ask for as many photos as possible and all my old parts back for analysis. Must say I'm a little worried, hope it goes well

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[romanrnd]

Well I've bit the bullet and booked mine in for this Monday the 17th. No warranty so I'm paying for the lot. Getting all 3 chains changed along with all the tensioners and guides. It's an Indy specialist so I'm gunna ask for as many photos as possible and all my old parts back for analysis. Must say I'm a little worried, hope it goes well

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How much were you quoted?

[Ginge247]

How much were you quoted?Between £2-2.5k

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[El Presidente]

So I got my dealer to preform this repair on my car, it took over a week to repair but I was happy it was covered under warranty. It was cool for the first couple months but now I am way out of warranty and the sound seems to still be there during cold starts. Is this normal for the people have preformed this repair? I doubt my dealer will preform the repair again especially since I am out of warranty now.

[mediapimp]

So I got my dealer to preform this repair on my car, it took over a week to repair but I was happy it was covered under warranty. It was cool for the first couple months but now I am way out of warranty and the sound seems to still be there during cold starts. Is this normal for the people have preformed this repair? I doubt my dealer will preform the repair again especially since I am out of warranty now.

Yes, there have been several reports in this thread of people having the rattle return after getting the TSB done.

[rvcahawaii808]

So I got my dealer to preform this repair on my car, it took over a week to repair but I was happy it was covered under warranty. It was cool for the first couple months but now I am way out of warranty and the sound seems to still be there during cold starts. Is this normal for the people have preformed this repair? I doubt my dealer will preform the repair again especially since I am out of warranty now.

i would hope that since you initially got it repaired under warranty and they have the documentation on that, that they would help you out.

[Corradobrit]

So I got my dealer to preform this repair on my car, it took over a week to repair but I was happy it was covered under warranty. It was cool for the first couple months but now I am way out of warranty and the sound seems to still be there during cold starts. Is this normal for the people have preformed this repair? I doubt my dealer will preform the repair again especially since I am out of warranty now.

Do you mean factory warranty or TSB warranty which is 12 months/12K miles? Might be worth going back to dealer and documenting the problem again even if they refuse to address the issue now.

[jygesq]

Another example the the TSB may not be the fix we are hoping for. strangely, the 2016 model is not subject to the TSB . Parts diagrams show 2016 uses the updated tensioners. In response to my post asking is 2016 S4 experienced chain rattle, two posters said they had not. Is there something else used in 2016 S4?Audi must know, but is not telling us.There is some speculation that the check valves in the oil system may have something to due with this issue. It would seem the AUDI should be doing more to pin point the actual fix.A defective check valve, if the actual cause would be easier to fix.

[Corradobrit]

Maybe a combination of contributing factors

[Corradobrit]

2016 may not have enough miles on the motors for tensioners to have weakened. Seems to start at 30K+

[Ginge247]

Mine didn't rattle at all when I bought it on 69k but started at around 79k. It's an early 2010. It's now on 91,600k and rattles it's nuts off, but still only when cold, fine after

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[Ginge247]

Done a compression test today just to make sure that it's worth spending the money on the chains. All 195psi but one which was 185psi. So not bad

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[ValidatedS4]

84625

Found this reading the study guide for the 3.0 v6 TFSI.

Looks like the same chain drive is used from the 3.2.

Anyone knows if the 3.2 has these issues?

It also mentions that the vavlelift system was not used. I remember reading somewhere about the upper oil filter and how that could come into play.


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[Ginge247]

84625

Found this reading the study guide for the 3.0 v6 TFSI.

Looks like the same chain drive is used from the 3.2.

Anyone knows if the 3.2 has these issues?

It also mentions that the vavlelift system was not used. I remember reading somewhere about the upper oil filter and how that could come into play.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Yeah the 3.2 is the same m8

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[Geomatics_Tech]

2016 may not have enough miles on the motors for tensioners to have weakened. Seems to start at 30K+

I had mine repaired at 25,000 km (15,000miles), and it returned a few months later. I only drive about 1000km (600miles) per month. The service was completed early October last year and once the temps dropped (the Canada factor) that’s when I noticed it returned.

From day 1 of ever hearing this sound, i have thought this issue was oil related.

[jygesq]

I had mine repaired at 25,000 km (15,000miles), and it returned a few months later. I only drive about 1000km (600miles) per month. The service was completed early October last year and once the temps dropped (the Canada factor) that’s when I noticed it returned.

From day 1 of ever hearing this sound, i have thought this issue was oil related.what year is your is your s4

[Ginge247]

Anyone in the UK had this fixed under warranty?

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[El Presidente]

Do you mean factory warranty or TSB warranty which is 12 months/12K miles? Might be worth going back to dealer and documenting the problem again even if they refuse to address the issue now.

Very interesting I had no idea of this, I will definitely go back and let you guys know what they say. When I had initially got it done they made it seem like the only reason they were doing it was because I was under warranty. But I did however show them the TSB just as a reference that there is actually an issue with this platform.

[gamatt]

Mark me down as another with the noise returning after the fix, car sat from last Friday to this morning (Tuesday) and made the noise. I'd say it was less than a second, but still there. [down]

[doughboy17]

Mark me down as another with the noise returning after the fix, car sat from last Friday to this morning (Tuesday) and made the noise. I'd say it was less than a second, but still there. [down]

Wow, that's disappointing! When was the TSB completed on your car?

[TheAsset]

I feel like if the car sits for multiple days and you hear the noise for less than a second you're probably fine. If the car sits for a day and you hear the noise for more than a second then maybe that's cause for slight concern.

[jygesq]

I feel like if the car sits for multiple days and you hear the noise for less than a second you're probably fine. If the car sits for a day and you hear the noise for more than a second then maybe that's cause for slight concern.

How do you judge less than a second? But more concerning is that now many owners report the noise has returned after the TSB (fix) , that apparently is not a fix. I would report the issue to dealer BEFORE warranty runs out and have them put notation on Repair Order. BUT NOT HAVE THEM DO the TSB.It is major surgery, many techs have no experience performing the TSB , . BUT if TSB does not work . why subject your car to it?

[TheAsset]

That was kind of my point, you can't exactly judge less than a second. That's probably common on a majority of engines that sit for more than a few days. The issue comes when you hear it after a warm start or within the day. I think some people are being hypersensitive which is understandable.

I'd still get the TSB done regardless. Audi is still responsible for any issues beyond that. If the tech isn't comfortable with doing the repair then take it somewhere else. As a consumer you're certainly paying a premium for a warranty along with eating the depreciation etc on a 60k MSRP car. If Audi can't get it fixed after performing the TSB and Audi customer service tells you to 'piss off' then I see no reason to buy any of their cars in the future.

[Slamdgti]

So picked up my car today. One day shy of 3 weeks. Car seems quieter overall but only time will tell if the sound returns. Cost was $0.00 and TSB notated on the Work order.

[Ginge247]

I asked Audi UK for details on the TSB and queried their ridiculous quote. This was their response:
Thank you for your response to Audi UK.

I would like to apologise for any disappointment caused by the repair cost.

I have discussed your query with our Parts Department and they have advised the following:

We cannot provide the information requested because, as stated, the information found is documented in the US and we do not have access to this market information. The price you have been quoted from an Audi Centre would be the same from an independent as they would have to use the same parts.

You would need to speak to the Parts Department at your local Audi Centre who will be happy to answer any questions you may have. You can find your nearest Audi Centre at*www.audi.co.uk/locate-a-centre.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us, allowing me the opportunity to reply.* I appreciate this is not the response you were hoping for, but trust you understand our position on the matter.*

Kind regards

The car is it the garage now but waiting for parts. The whole of the UK is short on certain items for the job so having to wait.

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[gamatt]

Wow, that's disappointing! When was the TSB completed on your car?

About 3 months and 2k miles ago.


How do you judge less than a second? But more concerning is that now many owners report the noise has returned after the TSB (fix) , that apparently is not a fix. I would report the issue to dealer BEFORE warranty runs out and have them put notation on Repair Order. BUT NOT HAVE THEM DO the TSB.It is major surgery, many techs have no experience performing the TSB , . BUT if TSB does not work . why subject your car to it?

It was less than counting "one-onethousand" [:)]

I'll keep listening for it, so far every other aspect has been perfect, no leaks, runs perfect.

[ambesolman]

Speaking of TSBs...I have mine at the dealer for loose feeling suspension and they say the control arms and associated hardware need to be replaced. My extended warranty won't cover it because none of the parts have actually failed as confirmed by the dealer.

Anyone had issues with the control arms and/or had them replaced under the tsb for a b8.5 s4?


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[doughboy17]

Speaking of TSBs...I have mine at the dealer for loose feeling suspension and they say the control arms and associated hardware need to be replaced. My extended warranty won't cover it because none of the parts have actually failed as confirmed by the dealer.

Anyone had issues with the control arms and/or had them replaced under the tsb for a b8.5 s4?


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How many miles and what year is your car? If >60K miles and depending upon how it was driven, control arms could be a wear item.

[Rbby228]

I’ve started noticing this rattle on my car too. Do you guys believe this is worth getting looked at?

[ambesolman]

How many miles and what year is your car? If >60K miles and depending upon how it was driven, control arms could be a wear item.

'14 s4 45k. Audi wouldn't pay for it and neither would my warranty since no parts had actually failed. I wasn't going to pay the $2k so I'll just wait. It's not a major problem, just feels a little looser than it should.


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[gamatt]

About 3 months and 2k miles ago.



It was less than counting "one-onethousand" [:)]

I'll keep listening for it, so far every other aspect has been perfect, no leaks, runs perfect.

So the car sat from Thursday night to Tuesday morning again last weekend and made the noise again. But when just sitting overnight no rattle, so I guess that's normal.

[jygesq]

So the car sat from Thursday night to Tuesday morning again last weekend and made the noise again. But when just sitting overnight no rattle, so I guess that's normal. My 2015 has similar behavior. The rattle is intermittent.sometimes rattle when after sitting w/o starting for more than a few days. Sometimes not. I fear AUDI does not have real fix. Car slould not rattle at any time ,wether TSB was performed or not. I was at a Party last night and mentioned issue to an owner of a 2014, He was not aware of the issue.As my dealer first told me no owners of S4 sold by dealership ever complained about issue, as owners were not aware of it. Until posting on this board ,I was not aware if it either! TSB has not been done on my car, I just had dealer , note my complaint for the record.I gave then copy of TSB ,AND it was referenced on the repair order while my car is still under factory warranty.No sense doing something that does not fix the rattle.

[slws4]

Speaking of TSBs...I have mine at the dealer for loose feeling suspension and they say the control arms and associated hardware need to be replaced. My extended warranty won't cover it because none of the parts have actually failed as confirmed by the dealer.

Anyone had issues with the control arms and/or had them replaced under the tsb for a b8.5 s4?


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Meh, one thing I found out about owning an Audi is that they clearly don't care and will not replace anything under warranty not unless absolutely needed to. Mine (lower control arms) were bad to begin with (I purchased a used S4), tried to bring it back in the day after purchase, in which they said they will take care of it. Called me back and was like sorry due to modified suspension we cannot repair it and it will cost $1800 to repair and we will give you a 10% discount since you purchased it from us. What a bunch of tards.


My 2015 has similar behavior. The rattle is intermittent.sometimes rattle when after sitting w/o starting for more than a few days. Sometimes not. I fear AUDI does not have real fix. Car slould not rattle at any time ,wether TSB was performed or not. I was at a Party last night and mentioned issue to an owner of a 2014, He was not aware of the issue.As my dealer first told me no owners of S4 sold by dealership ever complained about issue, as owners were not aware of it. Until posting on this board ,I was not aware if it either! TSB has not been done on my car, I just had dealer , note my complaint for the record.I gave then copy of TSB ,AND it was referenced on the repair order while my car is still under factory warranty.No sense doing something that does not fix the rattle.

Mine rattles for about a split second shorter than a second. Only on cold starts, after it warms up its gone. I am debating if I should bring it in along with a print out of the TSB. Though after reading this entire thread I see that some people were better off just living with the rattle and mine is not as bad as some of the youtube vids I have seen. Where it rattles well over a second.

My warranty is up in November so I am really unsure. Also does anyone know if i have to revert back to stock intake when I take it in for service? Would be rather annoying to do so every time.

[jygesq]

the tsb address only cold starts

[slws4]

the tsb address only cold starts

Confused at this comment? I am aware that the TSB is for cold starts only. I was just pointing out my experience thus far at a particular dealer.

As far as the TSB is concerend have you guys seen or read this? Got this on the A4 side:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/846065-vw-will-reimburse-drivers-faulty-engine-class-action-settlement/

Basically they are acknowledging it and will replace/repair specific model year cars if your vin is affected. Now if you already have the work done and paid out of pockets you may file a claim. Dont know when is the time limit because the claim site nor the VIN site is no longer working. I am debating on bringing my car in.

[Corradobrit]

Confused at this comment? I am aware that the TSB is for cold starts only. I was just pointing out my experience thus far at a particular dealer.

As far as the TSB is concerend have you guys seen or read this? Got this on the A4 side:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/846065-vw-will-reimburse-drivers-faulty-engine-class-action-settlement/



Has nothing to do with the 3.0T engine. 2.0T related

[slws4]

Has nothing to do with the 3.0T engine. 2.0T related

The cold start rattle issue has nothing to do with the 3.0t engine?

Hrmm odd this TSB says other wise:

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=194785

[mediapimp]

The cold start rattle issue has nothing to do with the 3.0t engine?

Hrmm odd this TSB says other wise:

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=194785

Yes, the TSB is for the 3.0. But he was referring to the lawsuit settlement which is for the 2.0 only.


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[swervepf]

How common is this rattle? Does it happen to all of these engines eventually or is it only affecting some? 10%? 50%?

I'm in the market looking at a 2011 S4 6speed MT right now and am concerned of the probability of ending up having this problem.

[jygesq]

If you where not aware of the problem, you never know.I was never concerned until I read posts on this board.Now that you are aware of the issue, You will listen to your S4. There is no predictable when it will occur. Many S4 that had TSB performed have reported the noise had returned.No matter the tech is qualified, some engines have had leaks, timing issues. Audi really has not come up with real fix.you pays your money, and hope,no long term problems happen. The new v-6 has its own issues. Turbos are trouble in lag of the line . Go to the B9 section of this board and read of blown motors . You decide.

[Spacegrau]

Going under the knife in a few weeks. Debating if this would be worth it but I figured at the very least I'm getting revised tensioners with 0 miles on them so why not do it.

[Corradobrit]

Going under the knife in a few weeks. Debating if this would be worth it but I figured at the very least I'm getting revised tensioners with 0 miles on them so why not do it.

This was my rationale too. Luckily things worked out and haven;t had any further issues since work completed in March.

[swervepf]

Going under the knife in a few weeks. Debating if this would be worth it but I figured at the very least I'm getting revised tensioners with 0 miles on them so why not do it.

Warranty covering or how much will it cost you?

[Spacegrau]

Warranty covering or how much will it cost you?

Warranty, definitely don't think worth paying for it

[92cpe]

Just got mine back yesterday. Was at dealer for a month. I think i heard a very faint rattle today for a split second but will continue to monitor. Car seems to idle smoother and quieter though. Honestly im over this, too much time spent thinking about tensioners.

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[sspikey]

Alright she has been dropped off this morning for the TSB to done done.

45K miles and it's noticeable since a few thousand kilometers. Tech had done a few of them and dealer was super easy and welcoming when I brought it to them. They really didnt fight me on it. Fantastic dealer and service so far I am really impressed.

[KLad]

Alright she has been dropped off this morning for the TSB to done done.

45K miles and it's noticeable since a few thousand kilometers. Tech had done a few of them and dealer was super easy and welcoming when I brought it to them. They really didnt fight me on it. Fantastic dealer and service so far I am really impressed.

Which dealer did you go to? I had mine done at Audi Lauzon, the tech seemed knowledge about the replacement of the tensionsers. The dealer didn't fight me on it either.

[LA_S4]

So I have engine rattle issues too, around 1 second. I recently used BG109 EPR and changed my oil. The rattle disappeared for now. Obviously i'm not sure if this really fixes anything but i think with a shorter oil change intervals, every 5k, and with BG EPR, this can help with the rattle. Somebody else has mention here that they think the oil pressure is reason why the rattle happens and we all know these engines eats oil to the point of needing to add a quart. So maybe a short oil change interval, essentially keeping it top off with fresh oil, with this or any cleaning additive can help and prolong the life of the tensioners/chains. Idk just throwing this idea out

http://a.co/d/iAtyRLV

[UberVier]

My '12 A6 3.0T didn't do this once. It had dealer oil changes and then I used the spec'd Castrol from ~70k until 90k. My '13 S4 however... dealer oil changes on time until 80k when I bought it. It was perfectly quiet for the first 4k miles, then I changed to Motul and it rattles much more frequently. I'm switching back to a different oil asap. I've seen other posts about rattling increasing with Motul.

[mediapimp]

My '12 A6 3.0T didn't do this once. It had dealer oil changes and then I used the spec'd Castrol from ~70k until 90k. My '13 S4 however... dealer oil changes on time until 80k when I bought it. It was perfectly quiet for the first 4k miles, then I changed to Motul and it rattles much more frequently. I'm switching back to a different oil asap. I've seen other posts about rattling increasing with Motul.

Please report back if the rattle goes away or lessens when you make the switch.

[Ginge247]

My '12 A6 3.0T didn't do this once. It had dealer oil changes and then I used the spec'd Castrol from ~70k until 90k. My '13 S4 however... dealer oil changes on time until 80k when I bought it. It was perfectly quiet for the first 4k miles, then I changed to Motul and it rattles much more frequently. I'm switching back to a different oil asap. I've seen other posts about rattling increasing with Motul.I've had castrol edge, Miller's Nanotech and Motul xcess in mine and made no difference to the rattle. That was 5w40 as well

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[Ginge247]

Finally got my car back after a month a half. Still taking it easy as I'm running it in but it's rattle free and feels much smoother. I've got all my old parts as well so I'm gunna inspect them all soon. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181026/38cc7388b6f42ad877ab7f1ff884d43a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181026/d312f424ccf2210cc49636491d553196.jpg

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[Spacegrau]

Which dealer did you go to? I had mine done at Audi Lauzon, the tech seemed knowledge about the replacement of the tensionsers. The dealer didn't fight me on it either.

How long did it take them?

[romanrnd]

I have the rattle but it's a bit weird. If the car sits for more 24hours+ I won't get a rattle.
But if it sits overnight ~12 hours it will rattle. Also rattles after sitting for more than 3 or 4 hours when car isn't completely cold.

[Corradobrit]

Also rattles after sitting for more than 3 or 4 hours when car isn't completely cold.

That would be cause for concern

[Ginge247]

I have the rattle but it's a bit weird. If the car sits for more 24hours+ I won't get a rattle.
But if it sits overnight ~12 hours it will rattle. Also rattles after sitting for more than 3 or 4 hours when car isn't completely cold.Sounds very intermittent like mine was

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[sspikey]

I went to park avenue. Prestige in west island kept telling me there is no tsb.

Drove the car twice and feels great and smooth won't lie.... On vacation and coming home to a cts turbo pulley + epl stage 2 + TCU tune. Should be fun!

[BucDan]

Finally got my car back after a month a half. Still taking it easy as I'm running it in but it's rattle free and feels much smoother. I've got all my old parts as well so I'm gunna inspect them all soon. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181026/38cc7388b6f42ad877ab7f1ff884d43a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181026/d312f424ccf2210cc49636491d553196.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960F using TapatalkWow, that VAT.

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[Ginge247]

Wow, that VAT.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)We love paying tax on top of tax !! [emoji19][emoji23]

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[ambesolman]

We love paying tax on top of tax !! [emoji19][emoji23]

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It's very philanthropic of you


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[Caymanite]

Having this done now under warranty. They have had my car over a week so we will see...


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[blubaru]

I have a 2015 with 30k miles, get the noise for a second at cold start up. My local dealer confirmed the TSB and I’m taking the car in next week, but he says the turn around is 1 day. I asked if he was sure, based on what I’ve read on this thread, and he said the tech was really experienced and it should only take a day. I guess we will see what happens.

[jygesq]

It is doubtful the TSB COULD be completed in one day, if you get a loaner it should not be of great concern.I would be more concerned that the TSB fixes the issue on a permanent basis. Read all the posts and decide,it may not be worth all the grief. See my post #. 928

[blubaru]

They always give me a loaner and I’m sure it’ll run over time, I’m not sure how they think it’ll be one day. I’m wanting to go stage 2 soon so I want to get this addressed while I’m still stock and have a warranty. I think it’s better to have it documented just in case? It couldn’t be a 100% fail rate right?

[christianb5s4]

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing this exactly as what's in the OP's video on my 2009 C6.5 3.0T w/ 88K. It is intermittent and only on completely cold starts, lasting about a second or two but never longer. I read through a number of pages and seems like I should just monitor if it gets worse?

Only asking since it seems many have had this noise and have driven their cars 10s of thousands of miles more and have not had failures. This is what mine sounds like:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8k3Saet7Q

[turbophreak]

I had this service done about 20,000 miles ago. Was without my car for over a month. Rattle sound just eventually came back over time, in addition the new noises and creaks after everything was put back together. The rattle now is even worse than it was before it went in. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't. Wasn't worth it in my opinion. I don't think Audi has figured out how to get these tensioners right yet.

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[jygesq]

My thought exactly, what is so strange, is no 2016 owners have reported the issue, the revised tensioners were I incorporated in their engines, many owners may not be even aware if the issue

[blubaru]

This whole thing is crazy to me, how can this be such a problem and some of the techs mess it up so bad? It’s not rebuilding the motor or anything like that, it’s just timing chain tensiors. Yes they are on the back of the motor but the heads aren’t being removed or anything. This should be a simple fix with no lasting side effects, I can’t even imagine how this messes other stuff up. My warranty is up in 6 months, I figure I need to at least get this on my record in case it gets worse later.

[Caymanite]

My dealer said it is a 18 to 20 hour job. I get my car back tomorrow after 2 weeks in a loaner...god I hate the new A4.


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[00passat]

Mine has the timing chain rattle since about 40k has almost 60k and no major issues. My vehicle is still under warranty but I’d rather not have this done. The dealer technicians I’ve encountered are very sloppy and I don’t want my car be half ass put back together. This car should be able to run over 100k with the timing chain rattle on startup. Until the rattle never goes away then I’ll address it. Like most have said they’ve had the tensioner replaced and the noise returns , it’s just not worth it to me to have them replaced until there is an actual issue.

[ApostolSauce]

9160991610
just did mine. sounds great now. at 106K

[ambesolman]

My dealer said it is a 18 to 20 hour job. I get my car back tomorrow after 2 weeks in a loaner...god I hate the new A4.


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I hear ya. I had one for about a week. Other than the instrument cluster, i don't like the whole look of the dash, it's too sterile or something. The weird gear shifter, the really annoying engine shut down and restart when at a stop, feels like all the torque comes on within the first couple inches when pressing the gas and of course the mmi screen looks like it's just perched on the dash like an afterthought. The b9 isn't an upgrade from my b8.5 imo, ymmv.


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[92cpe]

Posting back after a month post tsb. My car rattled once or twice in the first couple days of getting back and never again since. Engine seems to idle smoother as well in general. No codes, leaks etc.

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[Spacegrau]

Been about a week post fix on my 2015, so far so good. They even found a leaking WP while in there and replaced that as well. I'm at 28k miles.

[doughboy17]

My dealer said it is a 18 to 20 hour job. I get my car back tomorrow after 2 weeks in a loaner...god I hate the new A4.


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Yep ... although "hate" may be a strong word, I do not see it as an overall upgrade.

[KLad]

How long did it take them?
Just over two weeks. I didn’t mind they gave me an A5 sportback as a loaner.

[romanrnd]

I've seen some posts and possibly a thread about people replacing some oil check valves??? and that fixing the issue.. haven't been able to find the post anymore, anybody know what I'm talking about?

[evil35r]

I swear to god when I say this but when you first get in your car just push in the key with no foot on brake to enter acc mode. Leave like this for 3-5 seconds then start the car. I have done this for 3 days now and get zero chain rattle at startup. I don’t think there is anything increasing pressure or what not but it works. Someone else mentioned it on Fb so I tried it and it works no joke!

[jygesq]

I've seen some posts and possibly a thread about people replacing some oil check valves??? and that fixing the issue.. haven't been able to find the post anymore, anybody know what I'm talking about? check valves in oil filter set up.It was posted by a garage diong repair on Audi SUV with v-6 supercharged. I saw no follow up.

[00passat]

check valves in oil filter set up.It was posted by a garage diong repair on Audi SUV with v-6 supercharged. I saw no follow up.

There are two oil check valves under the pcv block, I will be replacing mine in a few weeks. I will report and let everyone know the results.

[jygesq]

I swear to god when I say this but when you first get in your car just push in the key with no foot on brake to enter acc mode. Leave like this for 3-5 seconds then start the car. I have done this for 3 days now and get zero chain rattle at startup. I don’t think there is anything increasing pressure or what not but it works. Someone else mentioned it on Fb so I tried it and it works no joke! see if it continues to act that way.I can have many days of no chain rattle at cold start, and the next day it occurs .No rhyme or reason to it.But I will not go through the TSB , AS too many things may occur during the TSB process AND many owners have said the rattle returns after a period of time. The check valve Theory has not be proven,I seriously doubt AUDI KNOWS how to permanently fix issue,.As I asked before we have had no reports of rattle on 2016 model year.The parts listed for tensioners is revised, many other thing are as well.

[a1dan_87]

Interesting. I've got a facelifted 09 A6 with the 3.0t, and it does what described- on a cold start it's this nasty grinding/rattling noise for less than a second, going away almost as quickly as it started. I've heard enough that it shouldn't be a worry unless it lasts

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[Rbby228]

Hey guys I just wanted to follow up. Ever since I got an oil change done on my car my car hasn’t rattled upon cold start. I’m thinking it’s one of two things. 1) oil level my car has been at the maximum oil level since I got the oil changed which I would assume would help in some way with oil pressure. And number 2) would be oil brand and type. I switched to liqui moly molygen 5w-40 which has a special compound in it that suposedly reduces engine wear. Can any of you guys with this issue tell us your oil level and oil brand you use?

[hilmar2k]

Hey guys I just wanted to follow up. Ever since I got an oil change done on my car my car hasn’t rattled upon cold start. I’m thinking it’s one of two things. 1) oil level my car has been at the maximum oil level since I got the oil changed which I would assume would help in some way with oil pressure. And number 2) would be oil brand and type. I switched to liqui moly molygen 5w-40 which has a special compound in it that suposedly reduces engine wear. Can any of you guys with this issue tell us your oil level and oil brand you use?

Molygen is only recommended for VW502, not approved.

[Corradobrit]

My car was always topped up to max level per the dipstick and MMI. It had cold start rattle approx 7-8x out of 10 before I got the TSB done. Don't think there's a correlation between oil level and rattle.

[Snowmonkey]

I swear to god when I say this but when you first get in your car just push in the key with no foot on brake to enter acc mode. Leave like this for 3-5 seconds then start the car. I have done this for 3 days now and get zero chain rattle at startup. I don’t think there is anything increasing pressure or what not but it works. Someone else mentioned it on Fb so I tried it and it works no joke!OK, that's spooky. I have a very consistent ~1 second rattle, but I tried this leaving work just now and there was no rattle.

Gonna try it for the next week and see if it's legit

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[SteveYem]

Hey guys I just wanted to follow up. Ever since I got an oil change done on my car my car hasn’t rattled upon cold start. I’m thinking it’s one of two things. 1) oil level my car has been at the maximum oil level since I got the oil changed which I would assume would help in some way with oil pressure. And number 2) would be oil brand and type. I switched to liqui moly molygen 5w-40 which has a special compound in it that suposedly reduces engine wear. Can any of you guys with this issue tell us your oil level and oil brand you use?

The last time I discussed this issue with the service manager at the local dealership, he asked me which oil type I was using. When I answered Mobil 1 0w-40 he grimaced and said that could be contributing to the issue. He suggested that a higher quality oil (and maybe a thicker oil to boot) may eliminate the problem. He also suggested using Lucas Oil Stabilizer, half a quart at each oil change (in place of half a quart of oil of course) to further help the issue. His thought was that the Mobil 1 0w-40 does not provide enough residual lubricity on the timing chain parts on the back side of the engine after the oil drains down when the engine has been stationary for a while.

I am still using Mobil 1 0w-40 and did add some of the oil stabilizer at my last oil change which seemed to help, but now I am getting that intermittent rattle on startup again. It's not every startup, and it's not the same duration every time that it happens. I'm now officially out of warranty as of October 31st, so I'm just crossing my fingers nothing more comes of it.

[Corradobrit]

Why not use the recommended 5W-40 viscosity?

[SteveYem]

Why not use the recommended 5W-40 viscosity?

I plan to do so on my next oil change. Meanwhile, Mobil 1 0w-40 meets the VW 502 00 spec and is relatively inexpensive, vs Castrol synthetic 5w-40 which I can’t seem to find around here anymore. Used to be branded as Castrol Syntec and referenced “European Formula” (or something like that) on the label as well as the VW 502 00 spec, but I can’t find that product anymore. Maybe it’s been replaced by Castrol Edge? I’m focusing on Castrol here because that’s the brand the Audi service manager recommended (which is no surprise as it’s what Audi recommends).

[AudiS4SD]

OK, that's spooky. I have a very consistent ~1 second rattle, but I tried this leaving work just now and there was no rattle.

Gonna try it for the next week and see if it's legit

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk I have tried this and it has not worked.

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[jygesq]

It probably has not a lot to due with oil, AUDI has not found at real solution to this issue. My oil was changed a month ago, Audi spec Castro edge 5-30 some days car starts w/o rattle , some days not ( car driven the day before) The check valve theory may be the issue, but AUDI does not seem to care . STRANGE have any 2016 S4 owners had the problem. That year car had revised tensioners as part of their engines? As the engine was built

[jygesq]

OK, that's spooky. I have a very consistent ~1 second rattle, but I tried this leaving work just now and there was no rattle.

Gonna try it for the next week and see if it's legit

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk the rattle is first start of the day.

[blubaru]

Dropped my car off Thursday at the dealer, they said it’ll most likely be ready Monday. The tech has done several of these with good results, they seemed pretty confident. I figure in the long run it’s better to have this on my service record in case it comes back or gets worse later.

[AFAndrew]

/Did you replace both upper tensioners? and how difficult was it?

[romanrnd]

It probably has not a lot to due with oil, AUDI has not found at real solution to this issue. My oil was changed a month ago, Audi spec Castro edge 5-30 some days car starts w/o rattle , some days not ( car driven the day before) The check valve theory may be the issue, but AUDI does not seem to care . STRANGE have any 2016 S4 owners had the problem. That year car had revised tensioners as part of their engines? As the engine was built

Check valve could be it but that wouldn't really explain why the rattle goes away after the TSB is done and then comes back.

[jygesq]

Nor why 2016 do not have the issue,unless something else was changed in that engine in addition to the revised tensioners. AUDI is just not be straight with us.

[dingfod]

I've had this issue develop on my car over the past year or so. I have a video here (https://1drv.ms/v/s!ArTr-Lx_CXl0l9ciE0zDZwD7ET4t5w). You can hear that this racket goes on for a very long time. I had my dealer in Seattle look at it. They referred me to TSB #2039995/2 that says it's the timing chain tensioner (as others have pointed out). The TSB only notes that the noises lasts 1-2 seconds. The dealer assured me that it's just racket and will only happen during time when the car is choked. I observe that last point to be true: The noise only happens at high idle during cold starts. Thereafter it goes away.

However, I'm not so sure about the "it's just noise" claim. My car doesn't have to sit long to display the behavior - it happens on maybe 60% of my cold starts and I drive this car daily. They said they could replace the tensioner for a cool $4K-ish. My S4 has 117K miles and I've always had Audi perform all oil changes.

What do you think about the duration - does that make it more urgent to fix?

My question: Do you think the potential for real damage is greater than the dealer indicates?

[SForePlayin']

I swear to god when I say this but when you first get in your car just push in the key with no foot on brake to enter acc mode. Leave like this for 3-5 seconds then start the car. I have done this for 3 days now and get zero chain rattle at startup. I don’t think there is anything increasing pressure or what not but it works. Someone else mentioned it on Fb so I tried it and it works no joke!

I have the cold start rattle and have not had the TSB performed. I have tried this twice but I don't have the same result as you unfortunately. I still hear the rattle at cold start.

[SteveYem]

This morning was the coldest ambient temperature here since last March if I had to guess, and I was sure that I would get the timing chain rattle at startup because of it. To my surprise, it didn't happen at all. No timing chain noise at startup. I had last driven the car around 5:30 pm yesterday so it was sitting for ~14 hours by the time I started it this morning. I think there is something to my local dealership's service manager's theory that Mobil 1 0W-40 does not provide adequate residual lubricity on these parts after the car sits for a while and the oil drains down, at least in warmer ambient temperatures when the oil viscosity is a bit lower. I'll keep an ear out for it within the coming weeks as we get more sustained cold ambient temperatures in the morning to see if the theory holds up.

For reference, I had the tensioners replaced per the TSB in December 2017 and the rattle started to come back sometime in spring/summer of 2018.

[hilmar2k]

I cannot find any rhyme or reason to the noise. I won't hear it at all for a few days, then I'll get a really bad one, then nothing, then minor rattle a couple times in a row, etc. I think any time looking for a pattern is time wasted.

[jygesq]

I agree , parking so the engine is tilted up might tend to prove the lack of oil as a result of drawing down. Most Audi owners never notice the noise and the two dealers in Hartford,Springfield claim I was the only one to bring it to there attention.

[SteveYem]

I agree , parking so the engine is tilted up might tend to prove the lack of oil as a result of drawing down. Most Audi owners never notice the noise and the two dealers in Hartford,Springfield claim I was the only one to bring it to there attention.

I may start parking in the opposite direction in my driveway, slightly nose-up, to see if that changes the frequency of occurrence at cold start. That's an easy enough test to do....I just need to remind myself to do it.

[Ginge247]

To the people who have had the tsb carried out, did you get told to run the car in afterwards and if so for how long? I know I'm slightly different as I've had all the chains replaced as well as all the tensioners. Was told to run it in but not for how long. I was thinking 1k?

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[Corradobrit]

To the people who have had the tsb carried out, did you get told to run the car in afterwards and if so for how long? I know I'm slightly different as I've had all the chains replaced as well as all the tensioners. Was told to run it in but not for how long. I was thinking 1k?

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I can't see why the simple tsb work would require run in. Chain replacement might be advisable.