Newest and biggest injector for the FSI

[ericpaulyoung]

The new RS4 injector may be the next hot ticket. They may have the spray pattern fixed.




079 906 036N


Compare ;)


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/VfsAAOxyp-BSLMa7/$T2eC16VHJHIFFho)rcy9BSLM,6U6bg~~60_35.JPG
http://thumbs1.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/180964140104_/Original-Audi-A5-A6-A8-Einspritzd-sen-079906036C-Einspritzventile.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

You will need to get a new harness off a TSI so that the connectors fit the new style.

[alphaVR]

Would be interested should it be evidenced to correct the rich conditions the B7 RS4 injectors cause on the FSI's. That's my only real complaint with the car anymore.

[Jake@JHM]

People are running 10s and low 11s with S3 injectors. I don't see a real need to go bigger yet.

[ericpaulyoung]

Jake always chimes in with his "we run 10s, there's no need" statement.


Some of us just like to work on cars and try new combinations. Hey, what can I say, I like modding.
:)

[Jake@JHM]

Jake always chimes in with his "we run 10s, there's no need" statement.


Some of us just like to work on cars and try new combinations. Hey, what can I say, I like modding.
:)

haha of course! I just try to remind people that sometimes less is more.

[mec]

Lololol if only we all had expert tuners.

Will this fit the bore in the head?

[ericpaulyoung]

Lololol if only we all had expert tuners.

Will this fit the bore in the head?

I thinky yes ;) hey even if they flow the same as the S3 but use the new multi hole tip for better atomization, you will be more efficient. Regardless of people wanting to just stay where we are now, it is always a good ideas to use more efficient designs if it is possible.

[ericpaulyoung]

haha of course! I just try to remind people that sometimes less is more.

Hehe, nah you guys just want everyone to build cars for 1/4 mike runs and post time slips. Some of us drive places other than a drag strip and look for smooth and fun daily drivers. Better atomizing nozzles can't be a bad idea IMO.

[mec]

I thinky yes ;) hey even if they flow the same as the S3 but use the new multi hole tip for better atomization, you will be more efficient. Regardless of people wanting to just stay where we are now, it is always a good ideas to use more efficient designs if it is possible.

I thought i read somewhere that DI is mostly just useful for fuel economy, there aren't many benefits to it when ti comes to making power...if thats true then wouldn't it make sense to just go with the simplest injector solution that meets your fueling goals?

[ericpaulyoung]

Picture compare added to first post.

[alphaVR]

I would need to see some concrete numbers of S3 injectors with a gt28 turbo on an FSI to determine whether its worth my while to switch tunes/injectors.

[Jake@JHM]

Hehe, nah you guys just want everyone to build cars for 1/4 mike runs and post time slips. Some of us drive places other than a drag strip and look for smooth and fun daily drivers. Better atomizing nozzles can't be a bad idea IMO.

Haha all of our cars are daily driven monsters. We spend a lot of time working on drive-aiblity on these big power builds we do and when we are done, its a smooth beast.

[ericpaulyoung]

Oh I am not trying to convince anybody to switch tunes or what not. Just bringing up an interesting option I didn't know about before.

[Andrew149]

Haha all of our cars are daily driven monsters. We spend a lot of time working on drive-aiblity on these big power builds we do and when we are done, its a smooth beast.
Is your little 2.0t a monster [emoji51]

[Jake@JHM]

Oh I am not trying to convince anybody to switch tunes or what not. Just bringing up an interesting option I didn't know about before.

Oh for sure! If these work its great to have more options because eventually people will need the fueling capabilities.

[Jake@JHM]

Is your little 2.0t a monster [emoji51]

..maybe [evilsmile]

[Andrew149]

..maybe [evilsmile]
I guess we'll will find out Wednesday [emoji36]

[Jake@JHM]

I guess we'll will find out Wednesday [emoji36]

Or will we?

[ericpaulyoung]

Check it out. The nozzle looks like the high end fogger tips on the newer (and more efficient) direct injection engines. Watch, within two months the shops will be offering these.




http://www.happyparts.de/images/product_images/popup_images/Art079906036G%20-10D5AC812F18F4CBDA123DCBAF51835E5.jpg

[Andrew149]

Or will we?
No flaking out on us! Like last time.

[Jake@JHM]

Check it out. The nozzle looks like the high end fogger tips on the newer (and more efficient) direct injection engines. Watch, within two months the shops will be offering these.




http://www.happyparts.de/images/product_images/popup_images/Art079906036G%20-10D5AC812F18F4CBDA123DCBAF51835E5.jpg

NEW FROM JHM ---> HIGH OUTPUT DI INJECTORS FOR THE 2.0T FSI -- CLICKY! (http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/cam-follower-for-fuel-pump-for-b7-a4-20t-p-1629.html)

[Jake@JHM]

No flaking out on us! Like last time.

What last time?

[Andrew149]

What last time?
Audizine meet.

[Jake@JHM]

Audizine meet.

I can't flake if I never said I was going. I rarely go to meets.

[Andrew149]

I can't flake if I never said I was going. I rarely go to meets.
Lame. ╰_╯

What kinda car guy that doesn't go to car meets.

[Jake@JHM]

Lame. ╰_╯

What kinda car guy that doesn't go to car meets.

One who works with those same cars every day [:|]

[Andrew149]

One who works with those same cars every day [:|]
But you sit behind a desk all day!

[Jake@JHM]

But you sit behind a desk all day!

not treuz!

[Andrew149]

not treuz!
You know what, I need some parts I'm calling you.

[Jake@JHM]

You know what, I need some parts I'm calling you.

Cam followerz? Clutch?

[Andrew149]

Cam followerz? Clutch?
Full quote on clutch with install.

[Jake@JHM]

20280.9 pesos

[mec]

20280.9 pesos

Do you accept bits of string?

[Jake@JHM]

Do you accept bits of string?

Depends, those bits of string will need to be nicely woven into a perfect USD.

[mec]

Depends, those bits of string will need to be nicely woven into a perfect USD.

Injectors jake comon! This is an important matter

So EPY i can only imagine that you posting this, you have already ordered a full set of 8 and are going to sell the other 4 for a nice price :)

[ericpaulyoung]

You can get a used one to test fit for about $30. I am sure JHM has on on the way ;) when they fit, I get a free hat!! My JHM hat is actually my favorite hat. My daughter was wearing it in Home Depot a few weeks back.



http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/80DB73D7-044C-48BE-A6B2-739F43435EC3_zpsjmny6e0j.jpg (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/80DB73D7-044C-48BE-A6B2-739F43435EC3_zpsjmny6e0j.jpg.html)

[ericpaulyoung]

So EPY i can only imagine that you posting this, you have already ordered a full set of 8 and are going to sell the other 4 for a nice price :)

You already know my plans with TSI injectors. And yes the other TSI injector stuff is ordered.

[mec]

You already know my plans with TSI injectors. And yes the other TSI injector stuff is ordered.

wow she grew up quick! What is she 2 already?

I also have a JHM hat, I really like the material its made out of, I have basically the same flexfit hat both from JHm and IE, but the IE one is made of like a less elastic material and just feels weird, the jhm hat is made of wool or something weird and it fits real nice.

[Jake@JHM]

You can get a used one to test fit for about $30. I am sure JHM has on on the way ;) when they fit, I get a free hat!! My JHM hat is actually my favorite hat. My daughter was wearing it in Home Depot a few weeks back.



http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/80DB73D7-044C-48BE-A6B2-739F43435EC3_zpsjmny6e0j.jpg (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/80DB73D7-044C-48BE-A6B2-739F43435EC3_zpsjmny6e0j.jpg.html)

Haha awesome!!

I can honestly say, we are not testing any rs4 injectors [;)]

[drumnjuny]

People are running 10s and low 11s with S3 injectors. I don't see a real need to go bigger yet.

lmao so much troll


Lololol if only we all had expert tuners.

and beat our clutch and trans every time we floor it like they owe us money

[Jake@JHM]

Because JHM Hats: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hatb&x=0&y=0

[mec]

Because JHM Hats: http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hatb&x=0&y=0

the flexfit one is where the money is at, trucker hats are weird. Oh man it fits soo good, I wear it everywhere and Jace rips on me, but its totally worth it because its just a perfect fit. Its like girls and jeans, how thye can never get a proper pair of jeans, same iwth me and hats.

[ericpaulyoung]

I still want a free hat.

[Jake@JHM]

the flexfit one is where the money is at, trucker hats are weird. Oh man it fits soo good, I wear it everywhere and Jace rips on me, but its totally worth it because its just a perfect fit. Its like girls and jeans, how thye can never get a proper pair of jeans, same iwth me and hats.

Haha why does he do that? That's un-sportsman like.


I still want a free hat.

But you already got one!

[mec]

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/downloads/images/season-6/609/609_img-17.jpg

[mec]

Haha why does he do that? That's sportsmanship like.



But you already got one!

because he is Jace, the man with only half a testicle!

[Jake@JHM]

because he is Jace, the man with only half a testicle!

...[o_o]

[ericpaulyoung]

Bump for the thread that looks small now but will be hailed as the next best thing since sliced bread as soon as people start using these.

Brand new will run you about $115, so comparible to the S3 but bigger and better atomization. Who could resist??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331313681188?lpid=82

[ericpaulyoung]

And when you say, "well how am I supposed to make the connectors work?". I will answer, buy a harness for $40 for a TSI (they also use the newer plug types).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MK6-VW-JETTA-GLI-2-0T-TSI-FUEL-INJECTOR-HARNESS-WIRING-PLUG-LOOM-PLUGS-OEM-314-/121472171507?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c484e3df3&vxp=mtr

[hpfpupgrade]

Bump for the thread that looks small now but will be hailed as the next best thing since sliced bread as soon as people start using these.

Brand new will run you about $115, so comparible to the S3 but bigger and better atomization. Who could resist??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331313681188?lpid=82

I have been looking at these and was wondering... how much more fuel could you move with this injector and a 155 BAR Performance Rail Valve? I might be just enough to crack that 700 HP level with the 2.0T.

[drumnjuny]

I have been looking at these and was wondering... how much more fuel could you move with this injector and a 155 BAR Performance Rail Valve? I might be just enough to crack that 700 HP level with the 2.0T.

he's back from the dead!!! welcome back bud [up]

[mec]

This thread really is about to be huge, HPFP just came back from the dead!!!!

hpfpupgrade stage 1 pump at 45k and still pumping strong!

eric when do your injectors arrive?

[ericpaulyoung]

Well they are listed as a replacement for the old RS4 injector, which was only a little bigger than the S3, so probably not a huge jump in total flow potential. I think the biggest thing is that it allows us to run the newer multi hole style injector. So they would likely be just a better alternative to the S3. Not a huge difference anywhere, but a little better everywhere.

epy

[mec]

Well they are listed as a replacement for the old RS4 injector, which was only a little bigger than the S3, so probably not a huge jump in total flow potential. I think the biggest thing is that it allows us to run the newer multi hole style injector. So they would likely be just a better alternative to the S3. Not a huge difference anywhere, but a little better everywhere.

epy

This is interesting stuff, I'll have to grab a set for my gtx4202 quad scroll turbo.

[turbo944s2]

Well they are listed as a replacement for the old RS4 injector, which was only a little bigger than the S3, so probably not a huge jump in total flow potential. I think the biggest thing is that it allows us to run the newer multi hole style injector. So they would likely be just a better alternative to the S3. Not a huge difference anywhere, but a little better everywhere.

epy

Keep up the good work bro. I'm anxious to see what they can do.

[Firefox250]

Thank you EPY!!

[derrek]

People are running 10s and low 11s with S3 injectors. I don't see a real need to go bigger yet.

Where is this b7 a4 running 10s and 11s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aluthman]

I'm intrigued, but I'm sticking with my S3's until I need to change them. It's always good to have options though.

[hpfpupgrade]

he's back from the dead!!! welcome back bud [up]

Not from the dead, just a lot of tuning in different markets and making sure we had the cam follower fiasco figured out.

We also have 3 new pumps/engines we are going to be adding for the VW and Audi markets.

Its nice to be back.

[hpfpupgrade]

This thread really is about to be huge, HPFP just came back from the dead!!!!

hpfpupgrade stage 1 pump at 45k and still pumping strong!

eric when do your injectors arrive?

Thanks!

Good to hear that the fuel pump has treated you well!

[mec]

Thanks!

Good to hear that the fuel pump has treated you well!

you still working on injectors?

[hpfpupgrade]

Well they are listed as a replacement for the old RS4 injector, which was only a little bigger than the S3, so probably not a huge jump in total flow potential. I think the biggest thing is that it allows us to run the newer multi hole style injector. So they would likely be just a better alternative to the S3. Not a huge difference anywhere, but a little better everywhere.

epy

What will be interesting, is how the new injector will respond to high pump pressures. The RS4 started to get a little weird after 140 BAR. The S3's we have ran all the way out to 175 BAR without an issue. If we can push these new RS4 injectors out further (more pressure) they might be that gap everyone is looking for to make big power. You can always buy the Bosch Motorsports injectors for $4,000, LOL.

[hpfpupgrade]

you still working on injectors?

Yes, we have managed to make two or three sets but one set always costs us 10 to 12 injectors. Still working on finding high enough precision equipment that can do what we need it to do yet doesn't cost millions of dollars.

Its in our plan of parts we want to bring to the market!

[mec]

Yes, we have managed to make two or three sets but one set always costs us 10 to 12 injectors. Still working on finding high enough precision equipment that can do what we need it to do yet doesn't cost millions of dollars.

Its in our plan of parts we want to bring to the market!

What else you got cookin?

[Jake@JHM]

Where is this b7 a4 running 10s and 11s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Never said b7 a4, I said people are running s3 injectors into the 10s and 11s. Look at the golf R.

[derrek]

Never said b7 a4, I said people are running s3 injectors into the 10s and 11s. Look at the golf R.

Link to build threads? I know a lot of the uk guys do it but none of those company's are willing to work with us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hpfpupgrade]

What else you got cookin?

TSI pump has been successfully torn down and put back together. We hope to have TSI pumps ready first of next year, already have prototypes machined, just have to finish the final hone.
We have fuel pumps for the FSI and TSI 4.2 V8's ready. So those supercharged guys needing more fuel... we have them covered.
3.6 FSI and TFSI pump... all done up and ready for those markets.
Working on the 3.6 rail valve, should have that ready first of next year.

Lots and lots of fueling stuff that we are working on right now. Replacement cam followers are getting shippped out to customers every week as we get them done.

Have I missed anything on the forums while I was gone?

[mec]

TSI pump has been successfully torn down and put back together. We hope to have TSI pumps ready first of next year, already have prototypes machined, just have to finish the final hone.
We have fuel pumps for the FSI and TSI 4.2 V8's ready. So those supercharged guys needing more fuel... we have them covered.
3.6 FSI and TFSI pump... all done up and ready for those markets.
Working on the 3.6 rail valve, should have that ready first of next year.

Lots and lots of fueling stuff that we are working on right now. Replacement cam followers are getting shippped out to customers every week as we get them done.

Have I missed anything on the forums while I was gone?

hmmmm I don't think so, everyone dropped the rs4 injectors. S3 injectors are the go to, and they are surprisingly cheap at $240 a set. Oh integrated engineering made their own hpfp kit, thought I don't believe any of us have bought it yet to test it out. JHM tune came out that doesn't require a hpfp, aside from that, everything is exactly as it was a year ago, and a year before that, etc....this platform is so stagnant.

[hpfpupgrade]

Link to build threads? I know a lot of the uk guys do it but none of those company's are willing to work with us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We have a set of S3 injectors running at 170 BAR right now in a car over in AUS. Last posted results were 11.1 and something like 530 WHP. He is running our Stage 2 fuel pump and custom rail valve from us. We also have a REVO tuned car running S3 injectors and one of our fueling solutions (Stage 2 fuel pump and 175 BAR rail valve). With methanol he made over 600 WHP! This customer is Germany if I am correct (could be wrong). The S3's can run big power, they just need the fueling to do so, and that is where a Performance Rail Valve and proper tuning play a huge part.

[hpfpupgrade]

hmmmm I don't think so, everyone dropped the rs4 injectors. S3 injectors are the go to, and they are surprisingly cheap at $240 a set. Oh integrated engineering made their own hpfp kit, thought I don't believe any of us have bought it yet to test it out. JHM tune came out that doesn't require a hpfp, aside from that, everything is exactly as it was a year ago, and a year before that, etc....this platform is so stagnant.

We have been pushing S3's for a while now. I am sure that JHM will have another tune soon that requires a fuel pump... that should turn a few heads.

I agree with the platform being slow, its because no one has been pushing the limits. I expect to see great things next year from all the VW and Audi markets!

[seal66]

We have a set of S3 injectors running at 170 BAR right now in a car over in AUS. Last posted results were 11.1 and something like 530 WHP. He is running our Stage 2 fuel pump and custom rail valve from us. We also have a REVO tuned car running S3 injectors and one of our fueling solutions (Stage 2 fuel pump and 175 BAR rail valve). With methanol he made over 600 WHP! This customer is Germany if I am correct (could be wrong). The S3's can run big power, they just need the fueling to do so, and that is where a Performance Rail Valve and proper tuning play a huge part.

I am curious about these higher PRV's.

I have a 155 PRV and the Stg2 HPFP from you. I currently run E85 on my K04. I am curious if a higher PRV well help me out since I am still running the S3's out of fuel almost.

[mec]

We have been pushing S3's for a while now. I am sure that JHM will have another tune soon that requires a fuel pump... that should turn a few heads.

I agree with the platform being slow, its because no one has been pushing the limits. I expect to see great things next year from all the VW and Audi markets!

thats very true, We've got a pair of guys doing some HTA30's thats the new development lol a 3073 and a 3076 one UM tuned and one still undecided, hopefully they push us to 500 wheel, i think the highest we have seen so far is 440 on an hta 3076 with meth and pump. We are definitely the slackers of the audi community, but there is also Eric's project, a sequential build, a small gt25 feeding in a larger gt35(82) i believe. If he pushes it, that project could probably make close to 600.

[derrek]

We have a set of S3 injectors running at 170 BAR right now in a car over in AUS. Last posted results were 11.1 and something like 530 WHP. He is running our Stage 2 fuel pump and custom rail valve from us. We also have a REVO tuned car running S3 injectors and one of our fueling solutions (Stage 2 fuel pump and 175 BAR rail valve). With methanol he made over 600 WHP! This customer is Germany if I am correct (could be wrong). The S3's can run big power, they just need the fueling to do so, and that is where a Performance Rail Valve and proper tuning play a huge part.

Those are probably fwhp numbers right? Also all of the companies outside of the us that I've seen go well past the know fuel limit for awd fsi cars won't help or sell to us in the US. So why not follow up on the other leads instead of just sitting here idle waiting for some company to come out with fuel injector solution. I'm not saying it's impossible to make those number or it hasn't been done other ways I just want to find a way to make my car like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hpfpupgrade]

I am curious about these higher PRV's.

I have a 155 PRV and the Stg2 HPFP from you. I currently run E85 on my K04. I am curious if a higher PRV well help me out since I am still running the S3's out of fuel almost.

With E85 you are going to want to upgrade the in-tank pump as well. Are you sure that its rail pressure that you are running out of and not in tank pump?

If you have enough in-tank fuel pump, then getting the Performance Rail Valve in a custom setting has worked fantastic for many different people. If you are running a 155 now and have a tuner that is able to tune for higher pressure, I would get a 170 BAR PRV. This should give you an additional 12 to 15% fuel to work with. Straight E85 on our pump hey? Are you running additional lubricant in the fuel?

[hpfpupgrade]

Those are probably fwhp numbers right? Also all of the companies outside of the us that I've seen go well past the know fuel limit for awd fsi cars won't help or sell to us in the US. So why not follow up on the other leads instead of just sitting here idle waiting for some company to come out with fuel injector solution. I'm not saying it's impossible to make those number or it hasn't been done other ways I just want to find a way to make my car like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The AUS car was AWD numbers, the Germany car was FWD numbers.

I know company's here in the states that would be more than willing to tune for higher fuel pressure and push the limits. We just need to see the demand.

[seal66]

With E85 you are going to want to upgrade the in-tank pump as well. Are you sure that its rail pressure that you are running out of and not in tank pump?

If you have enough in-tank fuel pump, then getting the Performance Rail Valve in a custom setting has worked fantastic for many different people. If you are running a 155 now and have a tuner that is able to tune for higher pressure, I would get a 170 BAR PRV. This should give you an additional 12 to 15% fuel to work with. Straight E85 on our pump hey? Are you running additional lubricant in the fuel?
Oh Ya I run a modified ttrs pump that is good for more than I am putting out.

I run straight e85 no additives or meth at all.

I have a very good tuner. I'll hit him up about it and see what's limiting me atm. Granted I am sure my turbo is maxed so I can't push my fueling further yet

[vce1232000]

S3 injectors are the go to, and they are surprisingly cheap at $240 a set.
$240.00 a set[confused] ....http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/memes/gtfo-meme-smiley-emoticon.png (http://www.sherv.net/).....lol

[hpfpupgrade]

Oh Ya I run a modified ttrs pump that is good for more than I am putting out.

I run straight e85 no additives or meth at all.

I have a very good tuner. I'll hit him up about it and see what's limiting me atm. Granted I am sure my turbo is maxed so I can't push my fueling further yet

I am going to be honest, I am surprised that the HPFP has lasted this long on E85. E85 has very lubricating qualities, and traditionally the HPFP's start to wear and eventually have erratic pressure issues. What ever you are doing, keep doing it.

A custom PRV will work fantastic in your set up! Let me know what the tuner has to say.

Thanks,

John

[hpfpupgrade]

$240.00 a set[confused] ....http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/memes/gtfo-meme-smiley-emoticon.png (http://www.sherv.net/).....lol

I thought that was wrong also. I don't think I can buy two S3 injectors for that much at cost, LOL.

[mec]

$240.00 a set[confused] ....http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/memes/gtfo-meme-smiley-emoticon.png (http://www.sherv.net/).....lol


I thought that was wrong also. I don't think I can buy two S3 injectors for that much at cost, LOL.

http://www.stockwiseauto.com/product_info.php/products_id/1994129/Make/Audi/Model/TT%20Quattro/Year/2009

[mec]

I've seen them for 80-100 in most other places, but $240 is hard to pass up.


Hey john you ever toyed with a TTRS PUMP? im trying to pull the pump out of the basket but it seems impossible without breaking the tabs. mostly because the tabs don't move.

[vce1232000]

I thought that was wrong also. I don't think I can buy two S3 injectors for that much at cost, LOL.
I'll give Martin a benefit of doubt and he meant a pair as in 2 for a set. thinks he is
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/smoke/stoned-smiley.gif (http://www.sherv.net/) again....lol

[vce1232000]

http://www.stockwiseauto.com/product_info.php/products_id/1994129/Make/Audi/Model/TT%20Quattro/Year/2009

Dude that link is not for S3 injectors[headbang]. I think they are TSI injectors[confused]

[mec]

Dude that link is not for S3 injectors[headbang]. I think they are TSI injectors[confused]

look up the part number before you continue to smash your head in to a wall.

[seal66]

I am going to be honest, I am surprised that the HPFP has lasted this long on E85. E85 has very lubricating qualities, and traditionally the HPFP's start to wear and eventually have erratic pressure issues. What ever you are doing, keep doing it.

A custom PRV will work fantastic in your set up! Let me know what the tuner has to say.

Thanks,

John
Jon,

My pump has been through two Audi's and roughly 30-35k miles on it.

E85 has been only about 5-6k of those.

I will talk with my Turner and see what he says

Thanks,

Seth

[mec]

Dude that link is not for S3 injectors[headbang]. I think they are TSI injectors[confused]

TSI uses a different harness connector that we do, and the injector body is different with a multi point spray tip.

http://www.prlog.org/12155822-0261500076.jpg

[Operator]

I've seen them for 80-100 in most other places, but $240 is hard to pass up.


Or $224.32
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Fuel-Injector-Nozzle-Injection-FOR-AUDI-S3-TTS-VW-Golf-GTI-Seat-Leon-TFSI-06F906036-GDI/838362_1557592976.html

[mec]

Or $224.32
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Fuel-Injector-Nozzle-Injection-FOR-AUDI-S3-TTS-VW-Golf-GTI-Seat-Leon-TFSI-06F906036-GDI/838362_1557592976.html

Hmmm interesting thing about those is that they are actually AUDI stamped. A few of the injectors including the later APR ones are direct from Bosch, including hte ones I posted, but those you posted actually have the audi stamping on them. crazy.

[vce1232000]

look up the part number before you continue to smash your head in to a wall.
[confused] That site is listing 2009^ TT application. I thought 2009^ uses the TSI motor. Which the S3 will only fit FSI motors[confused]

[mec]

[confused] That site is listing 2009^ TT application. I thought 2009^ uses the TSI motor. Which the S3 will only fit FSI motors[confused]

perhaps its time to go continue banging your head into that wall.

[vce1232000]

Where the FUCK was these prices @ when I bought my S3's [confused]. I paid like 450.00 for these about 2 years ago[headbang]

[vce1232000]

Hmmm interesting thing about those is that they are actually AUDI stamped. A few of the injectors including the later APR ones are direct from Bosch, including hte ones I posted, but those you posted actually have the audi stamping on them. crazy.
You know in China that counterfeit anything[eek] including stamping of BS parts...

[mec]

You know in China that counterfeit anything[eek] including stamping of BS parts...

True, but good quality stuff comes out of china too, I have no doubt that bosch makes these in china.....so who's to say these aren't just as good as OEM...only one way to find out! Someone order them

[vce1232000]

perhaps its time to go continue banging your head into that wall.
Naa. Just learned something new today[up]. Part of life[confused]. Nothing wrong admitting being wrong which I am[facepalm]...lol

[Operator]

You know in China that counterfeit anything[eek] including stamping of BS parts...

Anything you say?!? http://news.yahoo.com/video/chinese-jet-design-based-stolen-044547470.html

[mec]

Anything you say?!? http://news.yahoo.com/video/chinese-jet-design-based-stolen-044547470.html

wow thats crazy.....thats how to get to the top though! Even the k04 kits from china that are garbage and cost 500 have the audi stamp on them lol, they don't bother to remove them.

[vce1232000]

Even the k04 kits from china that are garbage and cost 500.
Did U say FrankenTurbo marketing [eek][eek]

[mec]

Did U say FrankenTurbo marketing [eek][eek]

llol thats what I don't get. People who buy frankenturbo.....you're buying a knock off k04....you can buy those for $500 on alibaba or ebay, why sink in $1500?

[derrek]

The AUS car was AWD numbers, the Germany car was FWD numbers.

I know company's here in the states that would be more than willing to tune for higher fuel pressure and push the limits. We just need to see the demand.

So who are these companies?

[hpfpupgrade]

http://www.stockwiseauto.com/product_info.php/products_id/1994129/Make/Audi/Model/TT%20Quattro/Year/2009

We trust that those are not some cheap knock off's? I get fantastic pricing from the dealer, and we are still double that at my cost.

[hpfpupgrade]

I've seen them for 80-100 in most other places, but $240 is hard to pass up.


Hey john you ever toyed with a TTRS PUMP? im trying to pull the pump out of the basket but it seems impossible without breaking the tabs. mostly because the tabs don't move.

You have to used several small pics to get them out. The tabs don't break if you move slow and gently bend them out of the way.

[hpfpupgrade]

True, but good quality stuff comes out of china too, I have no doubt that bosch makes these in china.....so who's to say these aren't just as good as OEM...only one way to find out! Someone order them

Problem, if they fail then what? Who do you contact when the injector takes out the engine? Its so hard these days to figure out what is what because the damn overseas crap has made its way into our lives. Look at it this way. If its 1/2 off what the dealer charges, pretty good bet that its not OEM quality.

[hpfpupgrade]

So who are these companies?

They are independent tuners. I am sure I could put you in contact with one if you were interested.

I would be tuning the crap out of these cars if I were not under contract with another company.

PM me and I will get you some information.

Thanks,

John

[mec]

You have to used several small pics to get them out. The tabs don't break if you move slow and gently bend them out of the way.

Hmm that method worked great wit the green top a4 lpfp, but this yellow top ttrs pump is tricky....the tabs are...well not tabs at all, and I'm almost inclined to believe this pump was assembled in a way that it can only be disassembled by removing the entire inner contents of the basket which means removing the black plastic pieces from their glued on white basket. Strange they wouldn't use the same system for both pumps.


Problem, if they fail then what? Who do you contact when the injector takes out the engine? Its so hard these days to figure out what is what because the damn overseas crap has made its way into our lives. Look at it this way. If its 1/2 off what the dealer charges, pretty good bet that its not OEM quality.

This is true, however the dealer does have some gnarly mark ups, I'm not sure what these specific injectors cost, but I seem to remember phoning my dealer friend who informed me that each s3 injector had a dealer cost (to them) of $173. At the time this seemed unbelievably high, however I then noticed that what the dealer tells you cost is not always cost. For example you might see cost on a coil pack might be 15-17. And if you're the right person you might just get a whole set of four for $20. Curious how that works, how it's almost just a calculation more than a reality. Anyway I'm pretty sure apr went straight to bosch for the s3's. Early generation apr kits and even just single injectors had the Audi part number etched off. It looked very sloppy, hilarious almost that people consider them a professional company when they make these ridiculous moves.then later on the injectors no longer had the Audi branding, they were direct purchases from bosch. And soon enough we began to see the injectors sale for. 80-100, this showed the dealer really wasn't paying $173 per injector. Hmm I would love to get a spare set though and flow test them, I think injector dynamics does it for $25 an injector. Could be a best test.

[Endmass]

This is true, however the dealer does have some gnarly mark ups, I'm not sure what these specific injectors cost, but I seem to remember phoning my dealer friend who informed me that each s3 injector had a dealer cost (to them) of $173. At the time this seemed unbelievably high, however I then noticed that what the dealer tells you cost is not always cost. For example you might see cost on a coil pack might be 15-17. And if you're the right person you might just get a whole set of four for $20. Curious how that works, how it's almost just a calculation more than a reality.

You have to look beyond the actual part cost. It costs to stock them in a warehouse all individually boxed for individual sale. Then comes shipping from the oem to the warehouse, then from the warehouse to the dealer: and crossing through multiple customs, etc...

Parts shipping from the OEM to the line are usually "just in time" shipments now, so neither the producer nor the factory has shit laying about.

Usually the people that can source it closer to the OEM without ordering by the thousands is the one getting the deal. Know someone who can get it from the oem: "hey bob in shipping, how are you doing today? Can these fall off the truck?"


Source: I work for a just-in-time OEM supplier. Sadly, we don't do injectors.

[mec]

You have to look beyond the actual part cost. It costs to stock them in a warehouse all individually boxed for individual sale. Then comes shipping from the oem to the warehouse, then from the warehouse to the dealer: and crossing through multiple customs, etc...

Parts shipping from the OEM to the line are usually "just in time" shipments now, so neither the producer nor the factory has shit laying about.

Usually the people that can source it closer to the OEM without ordering by the thousands is the one getting the deal. Know someone who can get it from the oem: "hey bob in shipping, how are you doing today? Can these fall off the truck?"


Source: I work for a just-in-time OEM supplier. Sadly, we don't do injectors.

I sorta figured overhead was a key player in what they determine "dealer cost" to be. But from what i've seen, dealer cost is not the cheapest they will sell for.

[ericpaulyoung]

I would not buy the china knock off for injectors or a turbo. I know the real S3 injectors are made in Europe and the new RS4 are made in Italy to be exact. These parts are high precision and the injectors require consistent performance across all four in order to operate effectively.

EPY

[seal66]

Eric sent ya a message.

[ericpaulyoung]

The ones posted above for $280 are real I think. Bit the ones from Aliexpress, but the other link. They are showing up as out of stock, so this may have been a sell off of a batch that they got super cheap so they were overstock items. So not typical. I think the actual price you can find S3 injectors for (I mean excluding a super deal like that) is around $80-$90 each. That seems to be the lowest price posted for S3 direct purchase.
EPY

[hpfpupgrade]

Hmm that method worked great wit the green top a4 lpfp, but this yellow top ttrs pump is tricky....the tabs are...well not tabs at all, and I'm almost inclined to believe this pump was assembled in a way that it can only be disassembled by removing the entire inner contents of the basket which means removing the black plastic pieces from their glued on white basket. Strange they wouldn't use the same system for both pumps.



This is true, however the dealer does have some gnarly mark ups, I'm not sure what these specific injectors cost, but I seem to remember phoning my dealer friend who informed me that each s3 injector had a dealer cost (to them) of $173. At the time this seemed unbelievably high, however I then noticed that what the dealer tells you cost is not always cost. For example you might see cost on a coil pack might be 15-17. And if you're the right person you might just get a whole set of four for $20. Curious how that works, how it's almost just a calculation more than a reality. Anyway I'm pretty sure apr went straight to bosch for the s3's. Early generation apr kits and even just single injectors had the Audi part number etched off. It looked very sloppy, hilarious almost that people consider them a professional company when they make these ridiculous moves.then later on the injectors no longer had the Audi branding, they were direct purchases from bosch. And soon enough we began to see the injectors sale for. 80-100, this showed the dealer really wasn't paying $173 per injector. Hmm I would love to get a spare set though and flow test them, I think injector dynamics does it for $25 an injector. Could be a best test.

I believe the TT fuel pump can be picked out of the pump housing. We managed to get one removed without destroying, but I don't recall how we did it.

My costs at the dealer are very good. We do $80k a year with them and we are their number 1 wholesaler. Anyone can go straight to Bosch and buy injectors, but you need to buy them in 100 to 1000 units at a time. The more you buy, the deeper the discount. How much of a discount, well... we asked how much for 4,000 injectors and they told us $280,000. You can get the price down if you are willing to buy them in massive quantity.

As far as flowing the injectors... currently no one can flow GDI injectors and give you an accurate flow ratting. Sure, they can push 100 to 200 psi through them, but that is not even idle pressure little alone WOT fuel pressure. I have been working on my in house injector bench for the last 2 years and we are finally getting to a point that we might actually be able to flow injectors and calculate the flow rate. Its the 100 volts required to fire the injector that is causing problems.

[hpfpupgrade]

Guys, I did get your PM's. I will be in contact with my tuning support group and see if I can get someone on board to tune you guys.

[Jake@JHM]

Tune for what?

[seal66]

Hey Jon, also I have a first batch cam follower. Wanna send me a message on where to ship it back too. I haven't even used it yet since the first batch ran into issues.

[ericpaulyoung]

eric when do your injectors arrive?

They are coming out of Germany tomorrow, so I should have them within 2 weeks depending on customs. They are coming out of a wrecked 2013 RS4 Avant with 33,000 km on the clock. So they should be in good shape still.

[derrek]

Tune for what?

I asked about the tuners he said he used for the high hp and fast 1/4 fsi cars

[Jake@JHM]

I asked about the tuners he said he used for the high hp and fast 1/4 fsi cars

Oh I know APR Australia went 10s with their golfR

[derrek]

Oh I know APR Australia went 10s with their golfR

Yeah but no one likes apr


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mec]

I believe the TT fuel pump can be picked out of the pump housing. We managed to get one removed without destroying, but I don't recall how we did it.

My costs at the dealer are very good. We do $80k a year with them and we are their number 1 wholesaler. Anyone can go straight to Bosch and buy injectors, but you need to buy them in 100 to 1000 units at a time. The more you buy, the deeper the discount. How much of a discount, well... we asked how much for 4,000 injectors and they told us $280,000. You can get the price down if you are willing to buy them in massive quantity.

As far as flowing the injectors... currently no one can flow GDI injectors and give you an accurate flow ratting. Sure, they can push 100 to 200 psi through them, but that is not even idle pressure little alone WOT fuel pressure. I have been working on my in house injector bench for the last 2 years and we are finally getting to a point that we might actually be able to flow injectors and calculate the flow rate. Its the 100 volts required to fire the injector that is causing problems.

Hmm I'll try some picks thanks!

Yeah thats the tradeoff i suppose, you have to have the infrastructure and network to be able to get your money back on 4000 injectors, selling 1000 sets is probably quite troublesome when you aren't the dealer.

Looking forward to another quality product with the tune!

[mec]

Yeah but no one likes apr


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hahahahhaa so true

[vce1232000]

APR tunes are still solid [drive]and dependable [up]. Just doesn't compromise it for a few extra [race]#'s[up]. They still the 1st one tuning the newest platforms out

[ericpaulyoung]

APR tunes stink. Go get some with JHM or DOtuning, or anywhere else and you will be better off. The APR tunes were reliable because they were crap will little to no changes. They are charging you for basically nothing.

[vce1232000]

APR tunes stink. Go get some with JHM or DOtuning, or anywhere else and you will be better off. The APR tunes were reliable because they were crap will little to no changes. They are charging you for basically nothing.
Unfortunately JHM doesn't offer a KO4 tune[confused] Or I would have switched[;)]. Heard great things about the KO3 Tune[hail]

[mec]

APR tunes stink. Go get some with JHM or DOtuning, or anywhere else and you will be better off. The APR tunes were reliable because they were crap will little to no changes. They are charging you for basically nothing.

Or maestro! The DIY route is a great route. We keep waiting for vendors to pop up who want to help us, who will push the platform, but really its our fault, we don't take the time to learn what is necessary to move forward, to put the effort into a build to push things to the limit, this platform just sits and waits for power to be delivered to it on a golden tray.

[vce1232000]

Or maestro! The DIY route is a great route. We keep waiting for vendors to pop up who want to help us, who will push the platform, but really its our fault, we don't take the time to learn what is necessary to move forward, to put the effort into a build to push things to the limit, this platform just sits and waits for power to be delivered to it on a golden tray.
Too complicated for me[=(]. I'm a set it and forget it type of guy[mad].

[mec]

Too complicated for me[=(]. I'm a set it and forget it type of guy[mad].

but you don't learn anything that way. Its like having a cook prepare all your meals for you, wouldn't someday you want to learn how to cook for yourself? Or learn how certain ingredients flow with others? You miss out on so much when you don't ask questions and you just fork out money for a prepaid package.

[mec]

Wow super weak, Audizine just deleted the APR fraud thread.

[Charles.waite]

but you don't learn anything that way. Its like having a cook prepare all your meals for you, wouldn't someday you want to learn how to cook for yourself? Or learn how certain ingredients flow with others? You miss out on so much when you don't ask questions and you just fork out money for a prepaid package.

True, but learning to tune MED9 isn't quite like grilling a steak...

[ericpaulyoung]

I for one would not mind if all my meals were cooked for me.

[ericpaulyoung]

But I prefer to tune my own car.

[vce1232000]

Wow super weak, Audizine just deleted the APR fraud thread.
Not deleted moved [;)]
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/624881-More-APR-fraud

[mec]

True, but learning to tune MED9 isn't quite like grilling a steak...

Is it not? You start out with a raw from the factory calibration (raw frmo the factory steak), you pepper in some condiments(edit some maps), you put it on the grill(do some logs), taste test it, make sure its not under or over cooked (look at the logs and make sure the car is running well. Then you sit back and enjoy your steak (tune)

[vce1232000]

but you don't learn anything that way. Its like having a cook prepare all your meals for you, wouldn't someday you want to learn how to cook for yourself? Or learn how certain ingredients flow with others? You miss out on so much when you don't ask questions and you just fork out money for a prepaid package.
Unfortunately Martin[:(]. Its so much you can teach a 48 year old man that learned on CIS systems[=(].

[drumnjuny]

shit, i can grill a steak...

juny auto werks i'm available for custom tunes!

[vce1232000]

Is it not? You start out with a raw from the factory calibration (raw frmo the factory steak), you pepper in some condiments(edit some maps), you put it on the grill(do some logs), taste test it, make sure its not under or over cooked (look at the logs and make sure the car is running well. Then you sit back and enjoy your steak (tune)
Is it really that easy[;)]

[mec]

shit, i can grill a steak...

juny auto werks i'm available for custom tunes!

hahahahah

[mec]

Is it really that easy[;)]

Well is grilling a steak easy for the first time? No.

Nothing is easy the first time, but you do your research and you move one foot forward at a time and before you know it you are tuning your vaccuum cleaner to suck up more dust bunnies per cubic inch.

[vce1232000]

before you know it you are tuning your vaccuum cleaner to suck up .
Im still trying to get my wife on that concept[facepalm]

[ericpaulyoung]

The first time I had sex it was easy.

[ericpaulyoung]

And it was about as good as my first tune. Janky and short lived.

[vce1232000]

shit, i can grill a steak...

juny auto werks i'm available for custom tunes!
Sounds like J Fonz marketing slogan[eek]

[mec]

And it was about as good as my first tune. Janky and short lived.

hahahahahhah truuueeeeee

[mec]

Sounds like J Fonz marketing slogan[eek]

seems like these days everyone is starting up an " Auto Werks" Maybe I will go to the licensing office tomorrow and rename my business from " Hauz of Mec" to "Mec Auto Werks"

[drumnjuny]

And it was about as good as my first tune. Janky and short lived.

L M F A O hahaha

[Charles.waite]

shit, i can grill a steak...

juny auto werks i'm available for custom tunes!

This reminds me of somebody......[:D]

[mec]

This reminds me of somebody......[:D]

is it a certain magic flashloader...rrrrr pro tuner?

[Charles.waite]

is it a certain magic flashloader...rrrrr pro tuner?

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yaself.

[mec]

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yaself.

wow.gif

[Charles.waite]

Quotefromthedeparted.png

[mec]

closebutnocigar.dissapoint.png

[ericpaulyoung]

Well they got here from Germany, and all the measurements match up. They will fit just fine. Only difference is they will sit out 1mm less into the combustion chamber. However, this won't be a problem at all, as it will just make it sit more flush :)

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/E6DF74E8-BFFD-4A47-BE33-E56E478E0415_zpsw5tg82mk.jpg



You tell me which one will atomize fuel better? :)


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/7E4ED8F0-541D-49F0-9A00-B6D4449E0929_zpsqj632mkb.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

Here you can see how far they normally stick out (look at the chamber that I am measuring the volume, and you see the injector tip). So 1mm back into the head will just make it flush.


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/E8D55814-AB6C-4E40-B0DD-F2F16DAAFD5F-1106-000000D6C3445B38_zpsf628b4dc.jpg

[derrek]

What's the next step?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mec]

What's the next step?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wiring harness! and possibly a voltage amplifier.

[ericpaulyoung]

They should run on 12 volts just like the old injectors. Both old and new register around 1.9 ohms resistance, so the coils are the same in each. I don't know why John said he was running 120 volts on some new injectors?? He must have been talking about something different from these.

Anywho, next I will finish cleaning, then install new Teflon and orings. Then put them on the shelf to try out later. First I am going to get the car running on the S3 injectors, and then test these babies out :) I am excited to try them out.
EPY

[mec]

They should run on 12 volts just like the old injectors. Both old and new register around 1.9 ohms resistance, so the coils are the same in each. I don't know why John said he was running 120 volts on some new injectors?? He must have been talking about something different from these.

Anywho, next I will finish cleaning, then install new Teflon and orings. Then put them on the shelf to try out later. First I am going to get the car running on the S3 injectors, and then test these babies out :) I am excited to try them out.
EPY

Then whats with the 0 gauge wiring?

[ericpaulyoung]

higher voltage would use smaller wiring :)

Higher current would use thicker wire.

I have looked around a bit and can find no reference to 120 volt injectors. I think John just misspoke.

[ericpaulyoung]

I already tried hooking them up to a 12 volt pulse, and at least they slam open and shut the same. I will ask around about it.
EPY

[ericpaulyoung]

Ya, they fit and work.

[Charles.waite]

Badass. Get those suckers up and running!

[ericpaulyoung]

They are running pretty well with the old RS4 constant, but their response dynamic is different. I will fine tune the response and what not shortly. I also swapped in the larger throttle body at the same time, so need to make sure that is working correctly too.

[ericpaulyoung]

The finished harness



http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/F302E89D-27ED-470C-B0D5-2D57C98AFD64_zpsxpmgfqxj.jpg

[aluthman]

How do injection times compare to the S3s? Significant decrease or just a little bit?

[ericpaulyoung]

They look to be bigger than the S3, and they have none of the problems of the old RS4 injectors so far. I didn't have to jack up the lag and timing tables at all to get them to work like you have to do with the old RS4 injectors. I need to get the non-linearity figured out first, then I can tell you what the constant is.

[ericpaulyoung]

How do injection times compare to the S3s? Significant decrease or just a little bit?

I can tell you this, when I first slapped them in before I changed anything in the tune (it was still dialed in for the S3 injectors), I was pulling -19% to maxing out at -25% depending on the rpm and load.

[ericpaulyoung]

They fit great. They sit a little lower than the old RS4 (old on RS4 on the right and new RS4 on the left).

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/581A64EC-6162-41B2-9D01-0A223EE0423F_zps18njks7p.jpg

[aluthman]

This is good news me thinks.

[ericpaulyoung]

The constant is about 0.025990. So bigger than the S3 and a little smaller than the old RS4.

Now injector constants can change a bit depending on how you make other adjustments, but this is where I found a good balance with short term/long term fuel trims at -2.0% and 1.4% respectively. So it is pretty close. At full throttle, I am still pulling -9% fuel :) so I got more fuel for pushing into the low 30 psi boost range now. These things run smooth too. They make the engine transition different (smoother).

[mec]

The constant is about 0.025990. So bigger than the S3 and a little smaller than the old RS4.

Now injector constants can change a bit depending on how you make other adjustments, but this is where I found a good balance with short term/long term fuel trims at -2.0% and 1.4% respectively. So it is pretty close. At full throttle, I am still pulling -9% fuel :) so I got more fuel for pushing into the low 30 psi boost range now. These things run smooth too. They make the engine transition different (smoother).

Fuckin nectar!

[ericpaulyoung]

I think I know what you should use in your 5 cyl build ;) a little tough to source them because Audi will not sell them in the North American market, but you can get them from non authorized Audi parts dealers.

[Charles.waite]

Isn't Martins 2.5 a port injection engine? It's not DI right?

[aluthman]

Isn't Martins 2.5 a port injection engine? It's not DI right?

Yes, he has a port injected engine. AFAIK, only the TTRS 2.5 is DI.

[ericpaulyoung]

ah, didn't know that.

[mec]

PI FTW! lol I guarantee you to not have any fueling issues with a 2.5 :)

[mec]

2.5's do come with hangover issues tho, anyone who builds a 2.5 becomes fuckin sick, and just rages too hard always.

[canadianA4B7]

Reviving this for future builders. working on these units now. Hopefully I can track down a set and install with the EFR. More to come.

[p0isin]

[up]

[canadianA4B7]

Trying to push the platform as mr EPY used to. I know you'll be asking when I get this settled. And someone will end up with a set of s3 injectors with 2200 km on them.

[Charles.waite]

Thanks for reviving this. Simply having better flowing injectors would be a huge boon to making more power, easier and safer on this platform.

[canadianA4B7]

Your 100% correct and he has stated in multiple threads what he had done to tune with these. I'm not 100% sure how much benefit I will see on the 6758, but if it means running the engine clean on fuel alone then adding meth will be a huge success. I wish I could have coaxed Aluthman into getting a set for his car. But guys look into this. I've found sets of 4 for stupid cheap. $155-200 for 4 injectors, the harness from what I've found so far is a direct replacement from a TSI motor which motor I'm still searching for and may be listed in this thread.

The extra fuel could really be a game changer. Will keep updating as project progresses. First step is to get on the road at least with the S3 I have, then when these get delivered I will move on.

Thanx goes to james12lucy we've been chatting about this for months. I've been bitching about finding a set and doing this install. Thanks to him and his endless hours spent searching the interweb he's tracked them down a set and progressing my build.

Anyone interested should check out revlimit tuning. I have contact info for them and they have some other solutions we could all use. Like their upgraded cam roller follower. No wonder they got 600+ hp 2.0T FSI cars.

[z_wrecker]

me please! Also couldn't find anything on their cam roller follower
Trying to push the platform as mr EPY used to. I know you'll be asking when I get this settled. And someone will end up with a set of s3 injectors with 2200 km on them.

[derrek]

My tuner has messed with these on a car in Greece. They flow a little more then whats available now but nothing that's a game changer. That's why I ended up adding port injection over chasing different DI injectors for marginal gains.

[Charles.waite]

So what are the technical reasons DI injectors are generally so limited? I'm genuinely curious. I know adding secondary port injectors is a solution but it seems like a hack (from an engineering standpoint, not saying people who have done it are hacks). It's just not elegant.

In any event, it just kinda sucks that for a 1.8t all you need to do for ludicrous power is add some crazy big 1000cc (or bigger) injectors and a high flow Bosch/aeromotive pump and the fueling is basically sorted. But for direct injection it seems like there are some pretty hard physical limitations that make fueling consistently be an issue. It's just sort of a bummer, that's all.

[jbain2]

So what are the technical reasons DI injectors are generally so limited? I'm genuinely curious. I know adding secondary port injectors is a solution but it seems like a hack (from an engineering standpoint, not saying people who have done it are hacks). It's just not elegant.

In any event, it just kinda sucks that for a 1.8t all you need to do for ludicrous power is add some crazy big 1000cc (or bigger) injectors and a high flow Bosch/aeromotive pump and the fueling is basically sorted. But for direct injection it seems like there are some pretty hard physical limitations that make fueling consistently be an issue. It's just sort of a bummer, that's all.

My understanding is that because DI requires a different atomization pattern the flow needs to be higher due to the shorter time fuel is in the pre-combustion chamber. I believe the S3 injectors actually are like 1100cc (a little more). For port injection the mixture of fuel and air that occurs in the manifold is different by the time it gets to the combustion chamber that admixture has changed.


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[canadianA4B7]

My tuner has messed with these on a car in Greece. They flow a little more then whats available now but nothing that's a game changer. That's why I ended up adding port injection over chasing different DI injectors for marginal gains.

Dotuning? Or revlimit? Revlimit has claim to have mastered the tunes with these. Yes showing only (I cud have this incorrect) 18% more fueling. Which from what I see would handle a 24/26 psi curve out beyond 8500 rpm? My understanding was they are using just these injectors to reach 500 hp (I'm assuming crank hp). Now I know from my last build the S3 were maxed out around 6500 rpm or so they began to tail off as they cud no longer produce enough fuel.

My concern with using the ie intake manifold and 4 more fuel injectors is that I have not yet seen anyone successfully do this (yet). And well here in Canuck land are tuning options do not include such things. So here it seems at this point my hands are tied. I have tuning software (which I'm not great at but can likely get dialed in over time) which should allow me to adjust for new slightly larger injectors. Another concern is a fuel rail for going the port injection. I have not found one, but I also have not fully looked as its not been on my list. Nor am I interested in forking out $$$$ for a dual surge tank with new pumps my guess is $1200? Or $155 for 4 injectors and harness? I guess adjusting my end goal has already happened. And let's be honest, if I get a semi pro driver in my car, or even a half witted monkey I'll still likely put some decent times down the track. Still has the letters BWT on it, so being stock motor and all.

Derek you don't think 18% will do anything or enough? Firefox has used rs4 injectors to reach 500 at the wheels?

[aluthman]

Your 100% correct and he has stated in multiple threads what he had done to tune with these. I'm not 100% sure how much benefit I will see on the 6758, but if it means running the engine clean on fuel alone then adding meth will be a huge success. I wish I could have coaxed Aluthman into getting a set for his car. But guys look into this. I've found sets of 4 for stupid cheap. $155-200 for 4 injectors, the harness from what I've found so far is a direct replacement from a TSI motor which motor I'm still searching for and may be listed in this thread.

The extra fuel could really be a game changer. Will keep updating as project progresses. First step is to get on the road at least with the S3 I have, then when these get delivered I will move on.

Thanx goes to james12lucy we've been chatting about this for months. I've been bitching about finding a set and doing this install. Thanks to him and his endless hours spent searching the interweb he's tracked them down a set and progressing my build.

Anyone interested should check out revlimit tuning. I have contact info for them and they have some other solutions we could all use. Like their upgraded cam roller follower. No wonder they got 600+ hp 2.0T FSI cars.
Who said I wasn't getting them?

[derrek]

Dotuning? Or revlimit? Revlimit has claim to have mastered the tunes with these. Yes showing only (I cud have this incorrect) 18% more fueling. Which from what I see would handle a 24/26 psi curve out beyond 8500 rpm? My understanding was they are using just these injectors to reach 500 hp (I'm assuming crank hp). Now I know from my last build the S3 were maxed out around 6500 rpm or so they began to tail off as they cud no longer produce enough fuel.

My concern with using the ie intake manifold and 4 more fuel injectors is that I have not yet seen anyone successfully do this (yet). And well here in Canuck land are tuning options do not include such things. So here it seems at this point my hands are tied. I have tuning software (which I'm not great at but can likely get dialed in over time) which should allow me to adjust for new slightly larger injectors. Another concern is a fuel rail for going the port injection. I have not found one, but I also have not fully looked as its not been on my list. Nor am I interested in forking out $$$$ for a dual surge tank with new pumps my guess is $1200? Or $155 for 4 injectors and harness? I guess adjusting my end goal has already happened. And let's be honest, if I get a semi pro driver in my car, or even a half witted monkey I'll still likely put some decent times down the track. Still has the letters BWT on it, so being stock motor and all.

Derek you don't think 18% will do anything or enough? Firefox has used rs4 injectors to reach 500 at the wheels?

Sure you can make some more hp out of them but what if you want to run more then 25psi? Also you're going to have to really beef up your low pressure side to handle that.

As for adding port injection you don't have to use the I.E. manifold it's just what me and Adam used. HEP makes one with a fuel rail and injector ports already. The part that sucks is the stock ecu can't control everything by itself so you'll need to find a controller for the extra injectors. There's tons of batch fire controllers but those kinda suck. If you're really interested in this take a look at all the iroz cars and the i.e. Mk6 gti they both use the same solution for their port injection.

For me it was spend a few hundred to run different DI injectors to just be stuck in the same situation with slightly more power or spend more and not have to worry about it anymore. If I need more more fuel, all I have to do is get bigger port injectors.


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[canadianA4B7]

I think you kinda answered my thoughts. After 2 motors and the 4 turbos I've tried unless I make this track specific car there is no reason for 30+ psi daily drivable. I ran 26 with the 2863 with only minor fuel issues with the S3 injectors. Now that I've re routed and enlarged the fuel lines under the hood removing that stupid piece of shit oem hard line I bet the S3 units may not actually have that issue.

Having th IE intake also. I got this to include the port injection for meth. You guys are a bit further in power range then me. So I do fully understand the injection route you've gone. I understand torqbyte can control fuel. So that could be an option, adding the aeromotive fuel pressure controller (with my fuel lines this isn't an issue supplying the oem hpfp and aeromotive fpr will be easy then just up lpfp constant to supply both) to a custom fuel rail and torqbyte controller to it would be a simple way to finalize fueling the port injection? Would only add fuel at set points in controller it looks like?

Not sure how much power the 6758 will want to push beyond the 25 psi boost? From matchbox EFR it looks like on our motor 25 psi should be a very very fast spooling powerful setup. With the rs4 new injectors it kinda would look like no issues supplying the engine with enough fuel to 8000 rpm...... Maybe I'm totally wrong and dreaming. But only one way to find out. And if it works that's awesome! If it doesn add port injection fueling.

[al3k]

From what Ive been told the RS3 injectors flow more than the 2. gen RS4 (FSI) injectors, I will probably go for RS3s and make a new harness.

[canadianA4B7]

Part number on the RS3 injectors?? This is interesting!

[james12lucy]

Part number on the RS3 injectors?? This is interesting!

Read this:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10518.0title=

07K 906 031 H

07K 906 031 L

And ETKA these gems... ;)
9A1 110 128 71

[canadianA4B7]

Who said I wasn't getting them?

I thought you were staying with the S3 while adding port injection...... I'll retract my comment I had no idea.

james is a meth addict. He has searched the entire web today 4x.

Thanks for adding that. Good info.

[al3k]

Read this:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10518.0title=

07K 906 031 H

07K 906 031 L

And ETKA these gems... ;)
9A1 110 128 71


" these are prosche injectors! 997 Turbo

spray pattern , all is excelent and u can run them on 130bar rail pressure with over 600HP.

Mostly everyone here in Germany who knows this secret is selling and programming these injectors now..

Because they are running as smoove as original."

That will do :D

[al3k]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-New-Original-OEM-Audi-RS3-RSQ3-TTRS-2-5-TFSI-360HP-fuel-injector-07K906031L-/122345370699?hash=item1c7c5a344b:g:ZbAAAOSw-0xYUrvQ&vxp=mtr

What about this rev 07K906031L?
China stuff maybe? seemed very cheap

[james12lucy]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-New-Original-OEM-Audi-RS3-RSQ3-TTRS-2-5-TFSI-360HP-fuel-injector-07K906031L-/122345370699?hash=item1c7c5a344b:g:ZbAAAOSw-0xYUrvQ&vxp=mtr

What about this rev 07K906031L?
China stuff maybe? seemed very cheap

I highlighted that in my other post. It's OEM but no one knows about them on this side of the pond, so there isn't a demand.


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[seal66]

I do have another injector solution. Just waiting for something first. So far two of us run in on the b7 and in yhe vw world quite a few

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[Charles.waite]

Aaannnnndddd...?

[Okedokey]

Aaannnnndddd...?

lol yep

[james12lucy]

I do have another injector solution. Just waiting for something first. So far two of us run in on the b7 and in yhe vw world quite a few

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I'm assuming you're referring to the GM injectors?


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[derrek]

I'm assuming you're referring to the GM injectors?


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something else

[Charles.waite]

Something else.....?

(Yes I'm deliberately being annoying, haha)

[StatusQuo]

I've herd some talk on the RS3 injectors. I'm still on the hunt finding the best injectors I can find

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[al3k]

I've herd some talk on the RS3 injectors. I'm still on the hunt finding the best injectors I can find

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There are some porsche injectors which flow more than the RS3, are you doing e85?

[james12lucy]

I posted the part numbers earlier in this thread.


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[Charles.waite]

Someone needs to just make a damn chart with the injector part number and flow rate. It shouldn't be this hard to keep track of this stuff...

[canadianA4B7]

start posting info I chart it.

[Charles.waite]

start posting info I chart it.

Who me? I don't know shit, haha. I just get a bit peeved at the scattering of info around here and the caginess of some people. I get you don't want to throw bad info out into the wild m, especially if the injectors don't work. But yea, the whole "I may have a solution but I don't want to talk about it" shtick is lame. Our cars are old as hell now. Most tuners have moved on to newer/bigger/better platforms. There's no reason to be cagey about a decade old platform that's been mostly abandoned but tuners.

[aluthman]

https://www.nostrumshop.com/product-category/k-di-direct-injectors/

[canadianA4B7]

No sorry not you anyone with injectors, part numbers, flow rates.

Wasn't pointing fingers. Just as you I only know some info. There's so much more info on the euro part of the interweb but a lot of it is in different languages.

[aluthman]

From what I've read, LNF injectors from GM, Opel injectors, and some of the newer stuff from VAG are options fir us. Unfortunately none are plug and play, and they are only marginal increases over S3 injectors. No one seems to be in agreement on flowrates though. That is probably due to there not being a standard benchmark pressure to compare them all at.

[Okedokey]

Charles you crack me up mate, lol. :)

- - - Updated - - -


Someone needs to just make a damn chart with the injector part number and flow rate. It shouldn't be this hard to keep track of this stuff...

Call of the year! Ive been looking all over for this. Would be a great sticky - aka like the spark plug one.

[seal66]

No being cagey or dodgey by anymeans. Just waiting for more concrete evidence before I saw anything else.

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[canadianA4B7]

PM me a part number I'll help you out.


I believe I've found most info here: http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/Fuel_Injector_Flow_Rates.html

Currently wrenching. But all of the rs3 numbers came up on it, the rs4 units and the S3 were all available or searchable on this site. But don't flame me if I'm wrong.

[turbo944s2]

Canadian, the fact that the RS4 injectors are blowing so much black smoke proves incomplete combustion. We aren't even burning all of the fuel they are producing. The problem isn't the injector size it's the tune.

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[canadianA4B7]

Yes I'm well aware. I think with the requested air the ie manifold will require the black smoke may not be an issue for me. The additional fuel may be equal to the requested of manifold. They say 20% more air, and to my knowledge the injectors are approx 18% more fueling. If I'm ass hats backwards I fully understand the black smoke. But u know simple basic math will state I'm somewhat close to what I would need with running rs4 injectors. Ok Firefox himself is running them and has made serious power. UM tuned his car. Not sure how I can figure this out other then diving into it and trying the injectors.

Please if I'm not correct at all let me know. In my brain it looks pretty damn near close to what I need. If I have to pay revlimit to tune. I may go that route.

[turbo944s2]

Hmm his car stalled and blew black smoke too and he is running s3 injectors now. Unless a tuner is willing to spends 100s of hours tuning a car they will never get it right. We might have to put in the work ourselves

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[canadianA4B7]

Hmm his car stalled and blew black smoke too and he is running s3 injectors now. Unless a tuner is willing to spends 100s of hours tuning a car they will never get it right. We might have to put in the work ourselves

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http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/750654-Used-S3-injectors

I believe he is running rs4 injectors still. He has his S3 for sale.

[derrek]

Carl's car is running the injectors Seth is talking about now. Even when he ran the rs4's and made 500whp it wasn't for more then a few hundred rpm then dropped down to 250whp at redline.


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[turbo944s2]

Hmm probably something more experimental, or reverted back to stock intake manifold

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[canadianA4B7]

Carl's car is running the injectors Seth is talking about now. Even when he ran the rs4's and made 500whp it wasn't for more then a few hundred rpm then dropped down to 250whp at redline.


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Oh wow. Now that's interesting. I feel trying to reach lesser goals on the rs4 or S3 should be an easier task to achieve?? My major concern is matching fueling to intake requests.

[seal66]

Yea me and carl run the same injectors now. He jumped on them once we had them running in my car properly.

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[canadianA4B7]

Yea me and carl run the same injectors now. He jumped on them once we had them running in my car properly.

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Next time you pull intake manifold please photo and post pic of these mystery unknown injectors. if you wouldn't mind.

[Okedokey]

im confused. why the secrecy?

[canadianA4B7]

I think it's blue waters that's installed them. Maybe?? It seems like they are trying something new and either aren't confident in their decision or are trying to monopolize on this in the future. Big companies don't like to have ppl installing their own stuff as its a loss for them. Just my thoughts on it. They may just be being cautious so they don't cause others issues.

I brought this back from a while back. Hoping to lock down some new ideas/plans for those getting into big turbos these days. That and I have to figure out fueling for my build.

[Charles.waite]

I think it's blue waters that's installed them. Maybe?? It seems like they are trying something new and either aren't confident in their decision or are trying to monopolize on this in the future. Big companies don't like to have ppl installing their own stuff as its a loss for them. Just my thoughts on it. They may just be being cautious so they don't cause others issues.

I brought this back from a while back. Hoping to lock down some new ideas/plans for those getting into big turbos these days. That and I have to figure out fueling for my build.

That's always been my understanding but I haven't been following many of the builds here so I'm not certain.

And not accusing anyone of being overly secretive or whatever, just feel like it would be awesome if we had a:

"I run 07k111222b injector. My peak MAF readings are 400g/s. My AFRs are in check at WOT. These injectors are 550cc equivalent (however you would convert a DI injector flow rate to more standard port injection flow)."

And I get that there is experimentation going on and people are always trying new things but it seems like that information loop is consistently not getting closed. Or ends with a PM me. Or X tuner said they're from a Porsche (hint, Porsche makes a ton of models and engines). A little more specificity would be super awesome. Though I get when tuner pushes limits they want to be able to capitalize on their R&D and also don't want the exposure on forums of "BobTuning said to use this injector and now I'm blowing black smoke and my car runs like shit! They're idiots never have them tune your car!!".

I guess I just feel like secrecy is okay when it's a new platform, but the b7s rolled off the line over a decade ago. I don't see the market being large enough to warrant the "competitive advantage" thing. That's all.

Also i tend to be crankypants in the morning so please don't anyone take offense to this or think I'm calling anyone out specifically.

[canadianA4B7]

Naw your good Charles. It's a 10 year old platform and understandable keeping things under hats. ive been reaching out over to Euro side of the world for info. They seem a bit more open with info. im sure they have good reason keeping it quiet for now. All it will take is an individual to try something new. And then post up the info. Kinda like my plan! The new rs4 injectors from vids I've seen don't blow out that much of a black cloud. Perhaps the units I'm going to try will be decent.

Seal66 does your car puff out black exhaust with these injectors? Or has the tuning been corrected to stop this?

[james12lucy]

Naw your good Charles. It's a 10 year old platform and understandable keeping things under hats. ive been reaching out over to Euro side of the world for info. They seem a bit more open with info. im sure they have good reason keeping it quiet for now. All it will take is an individual to try something new. And then post up the info. Kinda like my plan! The new rs4 injectors from vids I've seen don't blow out that much of a black cloud. Perhaps the units I'm going to try will be decent.

Seal66 does your car puff out black exhaust with these injectors? Or has the tuning been corrected to stop this?

I'm thinking we should be paying attention to tuners focusing on the MK6 Golf R. I mean, they're running the exact same FSI setup as we are, and they're throwing down massive numbers. I'll keep searching across the pond (I did come up with part numbers for Euro RS4 and Porsche 996 injectors that work) and see what I can find.

Ultimately, whatever injectors that are out there are going to need fine tuning to work efficiently. It's no different than the TDI world; too much fuel and not enough combustion will lead to smoke and hover EGT. I wouldn't worry about black smoke while off boost, if it dissipates while making boost. We could learn a thing or two from the oil burning crowd!


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[aluthman]

I don't think the 996 was DI.

[aluthman]

I think injector adapters will end up being the way to go for those wanting to stay purely DI. It opens up lots more possibilities. You could also machine the head, but that's a lot more of a permanent modification.

[james12lucy]

I don't think the 996 was DI.

Sorry Adam, 997.


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[canadianA4B7]

It seems like the euro rs4 units cud be quite a bit better then the American ones. Have been chatting on the phone this morning. If the USA RS4 units only produce 10% more fuel (I had read the euro rs4 were up to 18% more fuel) I guess the worst thing I cud do is not run the car at max power all the time. Which I'm fine with. Having a more drive able bad ass b7 A4 to me is more important then risking blowing a very pricey hunk of steel under the hood to smithereens. So what if I'm not making 45-100psi the car was a blast to drive on all stages I've tested. At this point I feel I'm just wanting to drive it around rather then spending hours a week wrenching, laying on my back in the driveway.

For me, get car running on mild tune with new intake and S3 injectors. After finding a healthy level of fuel or if I max them out too early then I can toss in the euro RS4 (that include the harness and new plug ins) units and go from there. If I get only 10% more fuel for what I paid it's going to be worth every penny.

[NostrumEnergy]

Going to jump in here and see if we can help. Some one posted our website link in an earlier piece, so we wanted to be sure are helping if we can. I see some comments about RS4-S3, etc and issues with black smoke, as well as questions about stock OE fuel injectors, so here we go:

Some basics:
EA113 based engines (BPY/BPG/) codes use the Bosch HDEV gen 1 design. These injectors have a single hole, spray directed for a fairly simple combustion system. Max pressure is also fairly low compared to HDEV 5 (150bar if I remember correctly) so be careful when trying to "re-purpose" these in an EA888 architecture engine. The biggest challenge is the injector outline, where HDEV1 has a longer solenoid body configuration than the HDEV 5. We've never tried to package an HDEV 1 in an HDEV 5 cylinder head, so it would be interesting to know more about that.

TTS (to '15) / Golf R mk6 engine codes CDMA/CRZA actually still used the HDEV 1 injector design, while the rest of the family moved on to HDEV 5 with all the EA888 derivatives (of which there are too many IMO). These are a higher flow rate Bosch part numbers 0 261 500 037 (~14 g/sec @100bar). If you attempt to use these, absolutely expect some combustion quality issues, but, yes, you can make more power. Its not nice power, but power non the less.

There are several Bosch part numbers for the EA888 family:
Bosch 0 261 500 162 is the current released part number for the majority of the EA888s (g1/g2) family in engine codes CCTA CBFA CAEB CAED CETA CPPA CPLA, used in the entire lineup of VW-Audi family vehicles. 12.7g/sec@100bar
Bosch 0 261 500 244 is the highest flow of the HDEV 5 EA888 injectors and is used in the new S3, TTS, TT and Golf R mk7, GTi mk7. These will run a higher fuel pressure and should be completely reverse compatible with the other EA888 engine codes. We believe this is about ~15 g/sec @100 bar, but we need to test a larger sample size.
Now the "Big" injector from Ecotec that everyone talks about is Bosch 0 261 500 055, and is from the Ecotec 2.0T LNF engine code. Bosch discontinued that part number, so if you want them, you better find them soon. 15.5 g/sec@100bar

When ever you use an injector that is not spray targeted for that particular combustion system, there will be some loss in combustion efficiency. However, re-purposing (taking an injector form one application and using it in another different application) is a better option than making an attempt at drilling or EDM'd a single hole down the middle of the injector nozzle. Destruction of the spray pattern like that (with a big central hole) will cause a significant amount of cylinder wall & piston crevice ring impingement. Not an immediate concern, because happiness will occur as you make more power, but a likely "knock knock" joke from one of your piston rings failing after some mileage accumulation is inevitable.

Be careful with attempting to re-purpose another manufacturer's injectors. Continental (3.0 TFSI SC, most Porsches) have a completely different current drive profile and may not open correctly. Denso injectors from the 3.5L Ecoboost flow a lot (16.5g/sec @100bar) but have a maximum opening pressure of 150bar, so if you are running EA888 with 180bar, you will fail to open at full load and see lean knock events.

Our injectors are massive compared to stock OE injectors. 50% to 80% higher flow rate. With a HP fuel pump, it is a great option for forcing a short block replacement....... Our customers are usually "big build" customers making well over 550hp.

As we get more data we will keep updating.
We have not tested any RS4 injectors, and I will check with the guys in the lab.

Hope this helps some.
-Frank

[canadianA4B7]

Frank thank you. I am sending PM with a part number/injector that's stating 18% more flow then the s3 injectors. I don't seem to see it elsewhere. Maybe you have im the info I'm looking for.

[Okedokey]

Going to jump in here and see if we can help. Some one posted our website link in an earlier piece, so we wanted to be sure are helping if we can. I see some comments about RS4-S3, etc and issues with black smoke, as well as questions about stock OE fuel injectors, so here we go:

Some basics:
EA113 based engines (BPY/BPG/) codes use the Bosch HDEV gen 1 design. These injectors have a single hole, spray directed for a fairly simple combustion system. Max pressure is also fairly low compared to HDEV 5 (150bar if I remember correctly) so be careful when trying to "re-purpose" these in an EA888 architecture engine. The biggest challenge is the injector outline, where HDEV1 has a longer solenoid body configuration than the HDEV 5. We've never tried to package an HDEV 1 in an HDEV 5 cylinder head, so it would be interesting to know more about that.

TTS (to '15) / Golf R mk6 engine codes CDMA/CRZA actually still used the HDEV 1 injector design, while the rest of the family moved on to HDEV 5 with all the EA888 derivatives (of which there are too many IMO). These are a higher flow rate Bosch part numbers 0 261 500 037 (~14 g/sec @100bar). If you attempt to use these, absolutely expect some combustion quality issues, but, yes, you can make more power. Its not nice power, but power non the less.

There are several Bosch part numbers for the EA888 family:
Bosch 0 261 500 162 is the current released part number for the majority of the EA888s (g1/g2) family in engine codes CCTA CBFA CAEB CAED CETA CPPA CPLA, used in the entire lineup of VW-Audi family vehicles. 12.7g/sec@100bar
Bosch 0 261 500 244 is the highest flow of the HDEV 5 EA888 injectors and is used in the new S3, TTS, TT and Golf R mk7, GTi mk7. These will run a higher fuel pressure and should be completely reverse compatible with the other EA888 engine codes. We believe this is about ~15 g/sec @100 bar, but we need to test a larger sample size.
Now the "Big" injector from Ecotec that everyone talks about is Bosch 0 261 500 055, and is from the Ecotec 2.0T LNF engine code. Bosch discontinued that part number, so if you want them, you better find them soon. 15.5 g/sec@100bar

When ever you use an injector that is not spray targeted for that particular combustion system, there will be some loss in combustion efficiency. However, re-purposing (taking an injector form one application and using it in another different application) is a better option than making an attempt at drilling or EDM'd a single hole down the middle of the injector nozzle. Destruction of the spray pattern like that (with a big central hole) will cause a significant amount of cylinder wall & piston crevice ring impingement. Not an immediate concern, because happiness will occur as you make more power, but a likely "knock knock" joke from one of your piston rings failing after some mileage accumulation is inevitable.

Be careful with attempting to re-purpose another manufacturer's injectors. Continental (3.0 TFSI SC, most Porsches) have a completely different current drive profile and may not open correctly. Denso injectors from the 3.5L Ecoboost flow a lot (16.5g/sec @100bar) but have a maximum opening pressure of 150bar, so if you are running EA888 with 180bar, you will fail to open at full load and see lean knock events.

Our injectors are massive compared to stock OE injectors. 50% to 80% higher flow rate. With a HP fuel pump, it is a great option for forcing a short block replacement....... Our customers are usually "big build" customers making well over 550hp.

As we get more data we will keep updating.
We have not tested any RS4 injectors, and I will check with the guys in the lab.

Hope this helps some.
-Frank

Thanks so much for this mate. Great to have you guys come on with actual details. not that I understand it all :)

[Charles.waite]

Awesome stuff! Thanks @NostrumEnergy! Tons of great info in there.

[seal66]

So really the only reason's I haven't giving out what injectors I am using is this,

I brought up the injector to BW and they are running with it in terms of tuning and creating a PNP kit. As for testing, we are making sure that things that need to be done in order for the injectors work and hold up long term to power. Saying that, I can tell you that they provided way more head room over s3's and rs4 injectors. Remember I run E85 on my setup with a k04 and now have plenty of headroom to finally move up to a bigger turbo. Downside, my low side hates me lol.

So far the injectors are in two b7's. And they work great. No black smoke issues at all even on 91 and E85.

It may just be me, but when I test something that I came forward with I like to make sure its going to work before coming forward with it. For example the UM E85 sniffer kit for the b7. Its more or less me waiting to bring something worthwhile to the table that works.

Also, we have been looking into a fix for the low side. Car is going to be heading into the shop soon for BW and UM to apply the low side fix. I have another low side option that I am discussing with BW and UM. just idea's not concrete yet. We have talked about going back to old school low side fueling but you would have to code out the lpfp controller.

If anyone has an questions just ask and I'll answer what I can. I wish I had logs from when the car was running before it decided to blow the hpfp off the studs again last year. I never got around to logging the low side with duty cycle and what not.

[aluthman]

Going to jump in here and see if we can help. Some one posted our website link in an earlier piece, so we wanted to be sure are helping if we can. I see some comments about RS4-S3, etc and issues with black smoke, as well as questions about stock OE fuel injectors, so here we go:

Some basics:
EA113 based engines (BPY/BPG/) codes use the Bosch HDEV gen 1 design. These injectors have a single hole, spray directed for a fairly simple combustion system. Max pressure is also fairly low compared to HDEV 5 (150bar if I remember correctly) so be careful when trying to "re-purpose" these in an EA888 architecture engine. The biggest challenge is the injector outline, where HDEV1 has a longer solenoid body configuration than the HDEV 5. We've never tried to package an HDEV 1 in an HDEV 5 cylinder head, so it would be interesting to know more about that.

TTS (to '15) / Golf R mk6 engine codes CDMA/CRZA actually still used the HDEV 1 injector design, while the rest of the family moved on to HDEV 5 with all the EA888 derivatives (of which there are too many IMO). These are a higher flow rate Bosch part numbers 0 261 500 037 (~14 g/sec @100bar). If you attempt to use these, absolutely expect some combustion quality issues, but, yes, you can make more power. Its not nice power, but power non the less.

There are several Bosch part numbers for the EA888 family:
Bosch 0 261 500 162 is the current released part number for the majority of the EA888s (g1/g2) family in engine codes CCTA CBFA CAEB CAED CETA CPPA CPLA, used in the entire lineup of VW-Audi family vehicles. 12.7g/sec@100bar
Bosch 0 261 500 244 is the highest flow of the HDEV 5 EA888 injectors and is used in the new S3, TTS, TT and Golf R mk7, GTi mk7. These will run a higher fuel pressure and should be completely reverse compatible with the other EA888 engine codes. We believe this is about ~15 g/sec @100 bar, but we need to test a larger sample size.
Now the "Big" injector from Ecotec that everyone talks about is Bosch 0 261 500 055, and is from the Ecotec 2.0T LNF engine code. Bosch discontinued that part number, so if you want them, you better find them soon. 15.5 g/sec@100bar

When ever you use an injector that is not spray targeted for that particular combustion system, there will be some loss in combustion efficiency. However, re-purposing (taking an injector form one application and using it in another different application) is a better option than making an attempt at drilling or EDM'd a single hole down the middle of the injector nozzle. Destruction of the spray pattern like that (with a big central hole) will cause a significant amount of cylinder wall & piston crevice ring impingement. Not an immediate concern, because happiness will occur as you make more power, but a likely "knock knock" joke from one of your piston rings failing after some mileage accumulation is inevitable.

Be careful with attempting to re-purpose another manufacturer's injectors. Continental (3.0 TFSI SC, most Porsches) have a completely different current drive profile and may not open correctly. Denso injectors from the 3.5L Ecoboost flow a lot (16.5g/sec @100bar) but have a maximum opening pressure of 150bar, so if you are running EA888 with 180bar, you will fail to open at full load and see lean knock events.

Our injectors are massive compared to stock OE injectors. 50% to 80% higher flow rate. With a HP fuel pump, it is a great option for forcing a short block replacement....... Our customers are usually "big build" customers making well over 550hp.

As we get more data we will keep updating.
We have not tested any RS4 injectors, and I will check with the guys in the lab.

Hope this helps some.
-Frank

Great info but I think you maybe missed what we're trying to do. We've got EA113 engines and are looking at using some of the newer injectors in place of our older hdev1 style injectors, not the other way around.

[canadianA4B7]

Great info but I think you maybe missed what we're trying to do. We've got EA113 engines and are looking at using some of the newer injectors in place of our older hdev1 style injectors, not the other way around.

I kinda wondered about this too. It is the other way around what we are looking for isn't it? The info is handy informative.

I think the message I sent direct should get him thinking the way we need. I sent him the part numbers for the next gen injectors I want to fit into our ea113 engine.

[canadianA4B7]

So it's decided. The gen 2 injectors are going into my car when they arrive, dotuning confirmed they are working units with much success. And they have tuned with them in the past.

Fueling seems to be one less thing I'm going to worry about. Adding meth will be in my next steps for the build.

[canadianA4B7]

Injectors have arrived. Sale advertised wiring harness included but did not come with the package. Wonderful! So I'll be looking to pick up a used harness hopefully in classifieds being it will be hacked I'm hoping for a donation. At the same time I'll now need to source the connectors number below which looks to be a connector used for a few different things. Referenced from earlier in these pages I should be able to make these into a useable harness and should be quite simple to make.

Part number: 4H0 973 702A anyone with access or can point me to these please feel free to provide a link or add so I can purchase.

Also searching for the injector install clips for these units which I'm coming up short on finding. I hope one of the retailers may have these in stock. Or likely local dealer perhaps the TSI injector clips will work as they do seem very close in design.

[Van Black]

@Canadian, what injectors did you get? Also, there's a good redneck way of fitting the harness to the injectors if you can't find the connectors, unfortunately it means hacking
the car harness or finding male plugs that will fit the engine harness:
https://youtu.be/Ti69JekZyto?t=417

[canadianA4B7]

@Canadian, what injectors did you get? Also, there's a good redneck way of fitting the harness to the injectors if you can't find the connectors, unfortunately it means hacking
the car harness or finding male plugs that will fit the engine harness:
https://youtu.be/Ti69JekZyto?t=417



079906036N Injector it's a gem 2 rs4 unit from ordered from a fellow in Poland.

I have been considering doing just what you linked in the video. For me sourcing the oem plugs and adapting the harness with them is more of a complete "build" on this project. With your solution injector becomes permanent to harness. Which later could require a harness replacement....... Either way I slice it could mean the same now that I think while I type....

I have sourced a TSI harness locally. Everything looks to be the TSI harnesses use similar style connectors being these came off or a 4.2 NA motor or 4.0Tfsi motor im hopeful the TSI injector harness has what I need. The other tricky part is finding injector install kits for these 4 units. Seems this is becoming a bunch harder then I originally thought. Sale posted said harness included, I never thought about re installing them, or if the original pieces would all be included. So it seems I've gone down a road less travelled and run into more issues along this route.

[james12lucy]

079906036N Injector it's a gem 2 rs4 unit from ordered from a fellow in Poland.

I have been considering doing just what you linked in the video. For me sourcing the oem plugs and adapting the harness with them is more of a complete "build" on this project. With your solution injector becomes permanent to harness. Which later could require a harness replacement....... Either way I slice it could mean the same now that I think while I type....

I have sourced a TSI harness locally. Everything looks to be the TSI harnesses use similar style connectors being these came off or a 4.2 NA motor or 4.0Tfsi motor im hopeful the TSI injector harness has what I need. The other tricky part is finding injector install kits for these 4 units. Seems this is becoming a bunch harder then I originally thought. Sale posted said harness included, I never thought about re installing them, or if the original pieces would all be included. So it seems I've gone down a road less travelled and run into more issues along this route.

@canadian, use the part numbers on ETKA to find the associated installation parts. Then ask the fellas at Owasco to order the needed install part numbers. If not, send them to me and I'll work my contacts at PFAFF and see if we can do this the logical way. The Polish seller isn't responding to me either. Le sigh.


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[canadianA4B7]

Connector part number I found is

4H0 973 702A seems like a basic connector used for multiple items in the newer models.

I've reached out to the tuners in Europe for the part number aswell. Local TSI unit seems to be the same part number aswell. But owasco may be the next stop on my list. Neil@owasco is damn good at finding stuff.

[NostrumEnergy]

Great info but I think you maybe missed what we're trying to do. We've got EA113 engines and are looking at using some of the newer injectors in place of our older hdev1 style injectors, not the other way around.

Sorry for the late reply. I understand what you are trying to do by using an HDEV5 injector in an EA113 platform engine. That is why I noted the difference in drive currents between HDEV1 and HDEV5.
Remember that GDI injectors are flow classed at 100bar (industry standard). When we test stock injectors we prefer to use the vehicle based drive profile. This gives the most accurate data for the flow curve.
If you are re-purposing an HDEV5 injector and driving it with an HDEV1 drive profile, it may not flow as much as you think. ("HDEV1 use a low pull in current, only 6-8Amps. While HDEV 5 uses 11-12Amps.") The HDEV5 injector may not open as quickly or as much (as it should) with a lower drive current. Inversely, you may want to try driving the HDEV1 with a higher current to see how much you can squeeze out of it by increasing the opening speed and the maximum lift. If you are able to get to drive current, then you can change the drive profile in the EA113 to run the higher HDEV 5 drive current profile. If you tell us the injector drive data for EA113, we can test some of the HDEV5 part numbers at that profile to see what happens.

I have some part numbers that canadianA4B7 sent me and from some our own search. But our bench is busy with GM LT injectors right now, so it may take a few weeks.

There were some questions about spray patterns. The HDEV 5, overall, has much better spray plume quality than the HDEV1 (when compared to particle distribution and average particle size).

If anyone has any other info we can use for testing injectors, please let us know.
-Frank

[p0isin]

Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread. Good info [up]

[canadianA4B7]

Connector part number I found is

4H0 973 702A seems like a basic connector used for multiple items in the newer models.

I've reached out to the tuners in Europe for the part number aswell. Local TSI unit seems to be the same part number aswell. But owasco may be the next stop on my list. Neil@owasco is damn good at finding stuff.


2015 A4 2.0T harness uses the correct connectors, picked this up yesterday. Still looking for wiring diagram to do the swap.

[al3k]

Sorry for the late reply. I understand what you are trying to do by using an HDEV5 injector in an EA113 platform engine. That is why I noted the difference in drive currents between HDEV1 and HDEV5.
Remember that GDI injectors are flow classed at 100bar (industry standard). When we test stock injectors we prefer to use the vehicle based drive profile. This gives the most accurate data for the flow curve.
If you are re-purposing an HDEV5 injector and driving it with an HDEV1 drive profile, it may not flow as much as you think. ("HDEV1 use a low pull in current, only 6-8Amps. While HDEV 5 uses 11-12Amps.") The HDEV5 injector may not open as quickly or as much (as it should) with a lower drive current. Inversely, you may want to try driving the HDEV1 with a higher current to see how much you can squeeze out of it by increasing the opening speed and the maximum lift. If you are able to get to drive current, then you can change the drive profile in the EA113 to run the higher HDEV 5 drive current profile. If you tell us the injector drive data for EA113, we can test some of the HDEV5 part numbers at that profile to see what happens.

I have some part numbers that canadianA4B7 sent me and from some our own search. But our bench is busy with GM LT injectors right now, so it may take a few weeks.

There were some questions about spray patterns. The HDEV 5, overall, has much better spray plume quality than the HDEV1 (when compared to particle distribution and average particle size).

If anyone has any other info we can use for testing injectors, please let us know.
-Frank

I didnt quite understand this, is this related to injector "deadtime" in the ECU tune? or is it a physical difference in the electronic components that the ME9.1 wont be able to drive the multiport injectors with current they were designed to run?

[turbo944s2]

I've had mine for a long time, trying to figure out how to install them(which install kit to use)

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[canadianA4B7]

[QUOTE=turbo944s2;12379513]I've had mine for a long time, trying to figure out how to install them(which install kit to use)

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk[/QUOT

I just ordered the last set I cud find of the upper pieces (if you need a few I can likely spare some or provide futher details), then you'll need the TSI install kit. You'll need the blue tops for fitting our fuel rail, the TSI bottom (looks like a crown w 2 or 3 legs) mount piece, then the rs4 c clip pieces for the top (similar on oem/s3/rs4 gen 1 and 2) slight differences). I've test fit them 3x with what I have laying around and this is the best setup I've come up with.

I have to get some more measurements yet, but they are in deed 1mm shorter as seen earlier in this thread. Does not look like an issue when intake/fuel rail attached.

I can get some more pics when I get back from cottage country. They are indeed different but the "flat spot" bottom of them does seem to fit 100% same location as oem. the top C clip pieces are a bit different but may be interchangeable. I may know why these ones are specific to the Conti injectors.