Those of you who are having Navigation Issues (Please read)

[scmguru]

It looks like at least 10 forum members are having similar Navigation issues. I am starting to collect information to send to Audi Engineering, so we can hopefully get this fixed, since it seems the TSB 2030465/6 didn't resolve this issue for some.

Issue: The navigation is showing your vehicle in the wrong location on the map (sometimes even in water) and the farther you drive, the worse it gets. In my case, 1 initially noticed the my vehicle arrow icon (on the nav map display regular and google maps) was showing me as driving at a 45 degree angle vs the road it thought I was on (which was wrong).

I need the following info: (you can post it here, or if you feel more comfortable or private message it to me)

1. Audi Model (S5, RS5 etc) and Model Year.

2. When did you take delivery? (If you feel comfortable, please private message me the last 4 # of your VIN)- I won't post it or disclose it to anyone but Audi.

3. What is the software version currently installed on your car.

4. When you do have issues, what are the symptoms and can you please check to see if you are connecting with GPS Satellites by performing the following:
(In Navigation mode --> Set a destination and start the route guidance (from the Navigation map screen)
a. Select Route.
b. Scroll up to top item and select it.
c. Scroll up to the top of that page and there it tells you how many Satellites it can see. (Mine initially saw 0 but the number would fluctuate after a while between 5-10). Note: If you don't have clear access to the sky, you WILL have less satellites showing.

The image you see will look similar to this one:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/26/e9188f04b811a460ce91e94be89c49eb.jpg

Can you take a picture of that screen and either post it here or PM me and I'll give you an email to send it to.

5. Determine Installed Software Version- Either post a picture here, PM Me or just type in the information you see.
Procedure from MMI Screen --> Menu Button -> Setup MMI --> Scroll to Version Information (Select).
(If this doesn't work, there should be instructions in your manual)

The screen you see will look like this:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/27/fd4979b82da010cfe47337b79b19bcfe.jpg


6. Does the issue resolve itself (i.e. if you park the car and drive it the next day etc)

7. Does a hard reset of the NAV/MMI resolve the issue? PLEASE DONT DO THIS UNTIL YOU'VE COLLECTED THE INFO ABOVE 1st AND HAVE HAD YOUR DEALER search for DTC codes (or you have VAG-COM and can search for them yourself.. just make sure to write down what you find)

Press and hold down the function keys 1 (Setup), the control button 2 and the control key at the top right 3 simultaneously until the MMI system shuts down. Release keys -> MMI system reboots (see picture below)
http://trick77.com/tools/audi_mmi.png

---
Hopefully this will help all of us get this resolved sooner, rather than later!

[superswiss]

Figured I'd post here instead of the other thread where this all started. FWIW, I've only ever had issues in one location so far and it's always the same location. It's right after a tunnel. In fact there's a new bore that recently opened, which is not on my current map. I started noticing the issue after taking the new bore and I think it is because it thinks I'm driving through the mountain and then gets confused at the other end. It starts placing me on side roads next to the highway and I see the location drift away from where I actually am for a while until after a few minutes it has me back in the right location. The tunnel exit is also surrounded by hills, so I'm guessing that the GPS signal also reflects of the hills and adds to the problem.

For those of you who have regular issues, does it always happen in the same places? If so, it's most likely external factors such as blocked or reflected GPS signals.

I've actually been talking to my SA and AoA about a firmware upgrade. I'm currently on 0715 and there is no official update, but I've just been told by the shop foreman that Audi is working on an update. There was an update, but it was flawed and Audi had to pull it. I'm not sure if the flawed update is 0726 or the TSB you listed, but AoA confirmed that 0715 is the most current update for my 2013 RS5 at this point.

[mike-z]

Same issue in one of the other forums, you might want to include them

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/610972-New-car-nav-issue

[scmguru]

For me it happened when leaving home and then never corrected after a 1.5 hr drive, sitting for 3+ hours in a different city and I came out and it was still off by 40+ miles. Thank goodness my phone nav worked.

[JamesRS5]

Mine was the same this morning after leaving it for 12 hours, the car now thinks it's in a position out towards the desert and hasn't moved. I dropped it off for a gtechniq detail and window tinting today so I won't get it back until Tuesday. It's booked in with Audi on Wednesday for them to assess what's packed up.
I'll report back then.

[Liberation]

I have an issue with my nav while in Google Earth getting and staying blurry.....unless, I go to standard mode for a week or so and then when I go back to Google Earth it will work again for a few days but then get blurry again.

Anyone else have this issue?

[JamesRS5]

That sounds more of a data connection issue than a GPS issue.

[JamesRS5]

Hi Mike,

I did just type out a full reply but it seems to have not sent?

Ok, I'll try again; my navigation started to try and work today, it had my position and had me traveling in the correct direction on the correct road. This degraded over the next 30 minutes, the nav seemed to lose heading at first, the arrow would be pointing as if the car was driving sideways along the road, the track was correct, just the heading off by 90'.

Then at the next big interchange it completely lost the road, it took a good 10 to 15 seconds for it to figure out I had changed roads. It also had me driving down the service roads and not the main highway (accuracy has large errors)

Here's a picture of my software version, please bare in mind it will be a Middle East map so completely different to yours.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/James_Hardwick/imagejpg1_zpsdea2e09e.jpg

The cars booked in for the 7th with Audi for them to diagnose the fault.

Let me know if I can help any more.

James

[superswiss]

^ Interesting that you have European firmware in Dubai. The US gets its own firmware. In the US, I haven't seen anything higher than 0726, but you have 0767, which is the latest European firmware version as far as I know. I'm starting to think that Audi got a batch of bad GPS antennas or something in the cars with these issue.

[JamesRS5]

Speaking to the technical manager today, they have replaced a NAV unit on a car showing the same symptoms, my worry is the nav unit they replace it with is from the same bad batch.
Dubai has seen a few different models with these symptoms.

[scmguru]

That sounds more of a data connection issue than a GPS issue.

2nd.. I had that happen when Google Earth tried to download data and the t-mobile connection where I was located at sucked and it never ended up updating Google Earth view until later that day when I left the city.

[superswiss]

Crap! Apparently I jinxed myself. This just happened to me for the first time after 20,000 miles. Same issue. No satellites being tracked. Had to fire up my phone half way into the journey. Now I'm starting to wonder if there's been an update to the GPS system that is causing this issue.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk

UPDATE: It was all back to normal on the way home after the car had sat for a few hours. I emailed my SA. I'll see what he comes up with.

[Liberation]

That sounds more of a data connection issue than a GPS issue.

Do you think it's because I have renewed my Audi Connect yet? I didn't think that was it because it does work sometimes and if the connection wasn't active, it would work at all.

[superswiss]

Do you think it's because I have renewed my Audi Connect yet? I didn't think that was it because it does work sometimes and if the connection wasn't active, it would work at all.



You mean you don't currently have an active data subscription? If so then yes that would be your problem.

[JamesRS5]

Back on topic:

My GPS only fails when I leave home. Leaving work it functions perfectly.

I checked on the way to work today when it was indicating I was in the middle of the desert, I had 'zero satellites' logged on. The car is parked overnight in an underground car park so definitely no GPS coverage when the system boots up. At work it's under a fabric sun shelter so it will have a signal. This still shouldn't be happening though, the system should log on to the satellites when it sees them.

This is either a bad antenna which is giving a really low gain signal to the nav unit or it's a bad nav unit. I think I'll ask audi to change both to try and eliminate the fault. The car is less than a week old, a $98k car should be able to give me directions.

[scmguru]

Mine did it again today.. same situation.. parked in a parking structure.. it doesn't lock on to satellites.. I had to do a 3 button reset and then it rebooted and worked. Still ridiculous..

[superswiss]

I think the issue arises when the unit completely looses all satellite signals. At that point it starts relying on information it gets from the ECU about steering angle, speed etc. to approximate ones position. It seems that it gets stuck in that mode, even after satellite signals return and then drifts away from the actual location further and further as the ECU signals only allow it to approximate the current location based on the last known location. In my case it happened right after a tunnel. Although, I've driven through the same tunnel many times, so it seems it doesn't trigger the bug all the time.

I've heard back from my SA and he said that he gets this complaint a lot and that it happens on all models. He was going to talk to the shop foreman about it. I followed up with a stern email that this is not normal at all. The satellites didn't just fall out of the sky as evidenced by the fact that my phone had no issues quickly acquiring my location and take me to my intended destination. Audi must be aware of this as it seems to be a widespread issue. Not sure why my system was fine for the first 20,000 miles, though and the all of a sudden had the issue. So far it's been fine. I highly doubt this is a hardware issue. It seems to be an obscure software bug that Audi hasn't been able to track down yet.

[4RingRook]

Have this same issue. 2014 A5. Will collect info. [up]

[banksc]

[QUOTE=superswiss;10067771
I've heard back from my SA and he said that he gets this complaint a lot and that it happens on all models. He was going to talk to the shop foreman about it. I followed up with a stern email that this is not normal at all. The satellites didn't just fall out of the sky as evidenced by the fact that my phone had no issues quickly acquiring my location and take me to my intended destination. Audi must be aware of this as it seems to be a widespread issue. Not sure why my system was fine for the first 20,000 miles, though and the all of a sudden had the issue. So far it's been fine. I highly doubt this is a hardware issue. It seems to be an obscure software bug that Audi hasn't been able to track down yet.[/QUOTE]

Sounds a lot like my issues with the WiFi (we tried other cars and they did it too, must be that your streaming music is overwhelming the WiFi!?!)...or the issue manually shifting into 5th (the '13 RS5 we got in does it as well, you must be trying to shift before the computer says it is time; despite the fact I can shift into 7th gear without issue at the same speed!)

Audi loves to sidestep the real issues. They keep implying that these are 'features'. [headbang]

[superswiss]

Got a response from my SA regarding the issue. Guess I have to wait till it occurs again and then send in the pics. Looks like the issue is known, but a documented fix is not available as of yet.


I need to see if you can take a photo when the system acts up. One of the nav showing that the car is not in correct position (like in the bay) and other showing number
of satellites received. I am currently talking to the Audi Factory Engineer and he can fix this but needs to determine the fix (with the photos) He says there is no information on the
fix available to the dealers nor is it in any Audi systems as of yet. If you can get those to me I will forward them to him and he will notify when he will be in again and he will be the
one to fix your vehicle. He says most likely cause is due to a chip which is effected by the climate control system.

[JamesRS5]

It can't be a difficult fix, every other navigation equipped car I have owned hasn't had this problem with covered parking and acquiring GPS, maybe this 'factory engineer' should look at any other car outside of the Audi brand and perhaps Garmin to see how they make GPS systems which are able to find satellites.

A fix maybe - instead of it just sitting with zero satellites and approximating the position, why can't it switch to 'search the sky' mode when it has been without satellite contact for a set period of time. Or maybe this is the problem, it's approximation software is so poor that it thinks it's in a completely different area so is confusing itself when it's looking for a satellite?

I can send you pictures of my system when it is lost if you think it will help but I can't see how it will, the nav system doesn't have the ability to display horizontal errors or figures of merit which is the information the engineer probably needs.

How do I 'reset' the system whilst on the move just out of interest?

[superswiss]

It can't be a difficult fix, every other navigation equipped car I have owned hasn't had this problem with covered parking and acquiring GPS, maybe this 'factory engineer' should look at any other car outside of the Audi brand and perhaps Garmin to see how they make GPS systems which are able to find satellites.

A fix maybe - instead of it just sitting with zero satellites and approximating the position, why can't it switch to 'search the sky' mode when it has been without satellite contact for a set period of time. Or maybe this is the problem, it's approximation software is so poor that it thinks it's in a completely different area so is confusing itself when it's looking for a satellite?

I can send you pictures of my system when it is lost if you think it will help but I can't see how it will, the nav system doesn't have the ability to display horizontal errors or figures of merit which is the information the engineer probably needs.

Now that I'm paying a lot more attention to the map even if I'm not actively navigating, I'm noticing that the issue happens quite frequently, however, it does a decent job at tracking the car's position using the ECU signals, but in the following picture it's apparent that it lost track of the satellites from the completely wrong altitude. I'm at sea level here. I sent the pics to my SA, so I see if this is sufficient for the engineer to come out and fix my car.


How do I 'reset' the system whilst on the move just out of interest?

RTFM [:D]. Simultaneously, press down on menu, center dial and upper right control button. It's the MMI's Ctrl-Alt-Del.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3856/14964207297_94e04c37dd_c.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/15127748586_4e88d80c5c_c.jpg

[scmguru]

The other day, I was able to get my nav to work properly if I performed the 3 button reset, while in an area without obstructions/buildings blocking the view of the sky.

Don't know if there is any other software version (other than map software version) info I can access via the mmi menu. If there is, I'd be happy to check mine and report back.

Not sure if my last visit to the dealer changed the sw version of the mmi

I currently have rev 726 of the mmi software.

It's interesting that you noticed the altitude issue.. I just noticed it on a drive this morning, I was apparently 90 feet below sea level as I was driving on pch on a bluff next to the ocean...

For what it is worth, the three button reset has intermittently worked for me, However, it only works if I am in an area with a clear view of the sky, ie, not blocked by buildings, even mid rise buildings, hills etc.. which I suppose makes sense.

Fwiw, my vehicle is parked in an older concrete parking structure, which is completely enclosed on the sides/walls and only has a few windows to let light in.

[JamesRS5]

The puck type high gain antennas are relatively cheap, I wonder if it worth slaving one in and just leaving it on the rear shelf to see if the system picks up satellites more efficiently.

[JamesRS5]

Well as I expected/feared, The service guys at Audi Dubai didn't listen to a single word I said.

They switched the system on in the Audi workshop and what would you know, 7 satellites were visible. They are now keeping the car overnight and expect it to fail in the morning. I tried to explain it will work perfectly ok because it isn't at the bottom of a 44 story concrete building but it's fallen on deaf ears.

Oh well

[tadduci]

Hello,
Yes, I have this exact same issue. I just took delivery of a 2015 RS5 and it has less than 250 miles on it.
I keep this car in a parking garage and I started to experience this problem on a regular basis (but it doesn't occur every time). At first I thought, well it just doesn't see the satellites as it is in a garage. I expected it to discover them when I left the garage however. That never happened and as I live near the lake in Chicago it said I was driving in the middle of the lake.

As I can see from the other posts it is clearly a firmware issue. Doubt it's the antenna as this many antenna's can't be bad.

Please keep me posted.
Thank you!
Tony

[JamesRS5]

Hi Tony,
I went to collect my car from the Audi service centre today, they said they couldn't reproduce the fault, I pulled out of the parking and guess what.....the GPS did nothing, it stayed fixed in position at Audi. On top of that, the steering wheel controls had now become unresponsive.

So it's back in Audi, I said keep it until you fix the issue.

The head tech told me this isn't an A5 isolated fault, it's Audi wide and appears to be linked to temperature, the failures only happen in countries where the cars a/c is running cold all the time. Can we all just confirm that we have our a/c on cold so this can either be confirmed or crossed off the list of possibilities.

I for one do have mine permanently set to low with a relatively high fan speed of around 6.

[scmguru]

I have my AC running on cold and they insulated a module, not fixed.

However, there is no way the module would get so cold in less than the minute it takes to get out of a parking structure when the outside temp is anywhere from 77-89 degrees F.

It has happened both with and without the ac on "cold" for me

Back to the drawing board Audi...

[JamesRS5]

These were my thoughts too, the nav system is no longer a disc spinning away which I could possibly understand, it's a solid state memory so cold shouldn't really have an effect.
Tony and my car must have come off the line at almost the same time so that sounds more like a bad batch of Nav units.

[scmguru]

These were my thoughts too, the nav system is no longer a disc spinning away which I could possibly understand, it's a solid state memory so cold shouldn't really have an effect.
Tony and my car must have come off the line at almost the same time so that sounds more like a bad batch of Nav units.

I was told the nav map actually resides on a hard drive inside the mmi unit, maybe they switched to ssd, but everything I have read indicates it is a regular hdd.

[JamesRS5]

Well some good news which may help?

I returned the car with the navigation unit in the faulted state, luckily the fly in technician from AG manufacture was present so when they plugged it in, it was reporting the code 5F which is as sporadic fault in the navigation control unit, this will now be replaced and hopefully my navigation woes will be over and I can start enjoying the car.

I will report back with updates to see if this has fixed the issue and give you some more info to feed back to your service departments.

Scmguru, it may well be a hard drive, I was assuming a hard drive would be solid state now , apologies if that's caused some confusion, by spinning disc I meant the old DVD nav units.

[scmguru]

Well some good news which may help?

I returned the car with the navigation unit in the faulted state, luckily the fly in technician from AG manufacture was present so when they plugged it in, it was reporting the code 5F which is as sporadic fault in the navigation control unit, this will now be replaced and hopefully my navigation woes will be over and I can start enjoying the car.

I will report back with updates to see if this has fixed the issue and give you some more info to feed back to your service departments.

Scmguru, it may well be a hard drive, I was assuming a hard drive would be solid state now , apologies if that's caused some confusion, by spinning disc I meant the old DVD nav units.

They said the same thing on my work order from about 3+ weeks ago.. Module 5F was reporting a sporadic fault and it was replaced and the module was insulated from the A/C..

Please let us know if replacing the 5F module resolves your issues and what firmware is running on it.

My replacement 5F module from a few weeks ago is running 726.

Apparently, a replacement part was flown in from Audi AG to my dealer (no idea what it is yet).. I am to bring the car in and will have to leave it at least 1/2 a day.. what a pain in the A**.

[tadduci]

My air conditioning is on cold but the car is being started from an idle state parked in a garage overnight at 70 degrees F.
I don't see that being the issue. I have noticed that if I don't hit the nav screen or go to the nav until it has unobstructed view of the sat's then I don't see the issue as much.
If I am in the parking structure (obstructed view to sat's) and I hit nav it seems to malfunction permanently more often.

[Elanmike]

I posted before on another thread - even started one a year ago. I've had this issue on/ off since I got the car April last year - it's a 2013 S5. At my last dealer visit I got the SW upgrade - there was a TSB stating to update the software to fix the issue. It didn't work. In fact, it got much, much worst. Now 1 in every 2 or 3 journeys has a lost Nav system. I don't use it to navigate so much, just use in map mode to see the traffic. I called the dealer back and they called Audi. They came back saying the software only works for some. Audi has another solution to the problem but not yet released - sounds like more BS - probably requires replacing something and they don't want to foot the Bill; software is much cheaper! Seems this issues been around a while. Audi should have this fixed by now.
One more note on the new SW - it's as slow as molasses at startup. I can't select the radio for the first few minutes after starting and even trying to change volume gives me a 'function not available' notification - wtf!
This is the SW they installed - avoid it: HN+_US_ AU3G_K0715_2

[FaceSmA5h]

Same issue. 2014 Audi A5. Took Delivery January 21, 2014.

[scmguru]

Has anyone had their root antenna replaced and did it resolve the issue?

[JamesRS5]

Im not sure it's the antenna, my system was off course and heading but was still detecting 7 satellites. This must be the 5F module at fault, it seems to want to keep approximating the position using the steering input and velocity but over time the errors build until the vehicle is way off where it should be. It only seems to do this when the system is first started with no satellite signal and still doesn't pick them up for the first few minutes of driving.
In my case, I come out from underground parking and drive through a very built up area surrounded by 40+ story buildings for the first 5 minutes of the journey, it doesn't seem to have the ability to recover from this, eventually it will just freeze in one position miles from my actual position.

[scmguru]

Im not sure it's the antenna, my system was off course and heading but was still detecting 7 satellites. This must be the 5F module at fault, it seems to want to keep approximating the position using the steering input and velocity but over time the errors build until the vehicle is way off where it should be. It only seems to do this when the system is first started with no satellite signal and still doesn't pick them up for the first few minutes of driving.
In my case, I come out from underground parking and drive through a very built up area surrounded by 40+ story buildings for the first 5 minutes of the journey, it doesn't seem to have the ability to recover from this, eventually it will just freeze in one position miles from my actual position.

You and I seem as though we have the same issue and park in a similar type of location.

Have you tried using the three button reset listed in the 1st post?

For me, if I perform the mmi reset it seems to resolve the issue by reinitializing the nav when there is a clear view of the sky, then it picks up the satellites and the map location is updated.

So the semi-good news is, there is a potential work around.

JamesRS5, do you park head in to your space or do you back in to your parking spot within the parking structure?

How about the rest of you? Do you park inside or outside and if you park inside, is the structure concrete or a residential garage?

For the folks who park in a parking structure, do you park head in or back in to the spot.


The reason I ask is the cement parking bumper in my garage is too tall and would tear up the front bumper, so I have to back in to the spot.

I wonder if that could be exacerbating the problem.

With my B7 RS4, I never had this issue (different nav system, but I was able to park head in.

I may try and see if there is an outside spot I can park in overnight and also try parking head in to see if either helps to resolve.

The strange thing is, my previous RS5 delivered 8/2013 never had this issue and I parked in the same spot and backed in.

[JamesRS5]

I reverse into the parking space but my journey to my parking space is quite convoluted and involves driving up a ramp to the mezzanine level then doubling back on myself so many direction changes whilst out of satellite coverage.
I monitored the nav on the way to work this morning, for the entire 45 minute journey I had zero satellites, the nav kit initially did a good job of estimating where the cars position was, however, where there is a new road layout not loaded into the nav system, it completely threw the car off course as it tried to lock on to the nearest road. The the end of the journey I was one again displayed as being in the sea around 1/2 mile off the coast.

I did try the reset but no use to me, it still was detecting zero satellites.

My journey home after the car was parked in the open for 7 hrs had between 4 and 5 satellites displayed and tracked normally. I guess it just doesn't like being kept inside.

Let's see, my new nav unit should be coming in from Germany in 2 weeks.

[Elanmike]

The other thing I've noticed with the HN+_US_ AU3G_K0715_2 software they installed is that even with 4 or 5 satellites the accuracy is much worst than before. I'm in Phoenix and we have streets parallel to the freeway- now the Nav often has me on the side street, or wrong side if the Fwy instead of on the fwy in the right direction. If i then use directions instead of a map, it gets very confused. Definitely a step backwards!

[JamesRS5]

The system needs a minimum of 3 satellites to display position so with only 4 satellites in use it will have a greater error than a system with 5 or 6.
Bare in mind a simple GPS system is only accurate to around 26ft and you can see how it can easily get confused between a freeway and a service road.
I'm not making excuses for this system, it is without doubt the worst I have used and most definitely not what you'd expect in a $90K car, Audi really need to be giving the navigation system supplier a good shake up and getting this mess sorted.

[JamesRS5]

Audi have said it will take 5 weeks to receive the new nav unit, I can't believe it would possibly take so long to get a part shipped from Germany to the UAE which is a 6 hour flight.
This really is a joke.

[RickFLS4]

I have had this issue a few times in my 2013 S4. It always happens when I visit a client in Miami and stay overnight and park in a hotel garage in a Coral Gables - I live 75-80 miles away. Typically I park overnight in the hotel garage and it is screwed up the next morning (i.e. Doesn't know where I am). I travel to my client (about 20 minute ride) and park in their garage - problem still present entire ride there and later in the day when I leave and make the 75-90 minute ride home. Then it typically resolves itself the next morning after I park in my garage at home overnight.

1. Audi Model (S5, RS5 etc) and Model Year: 2013 S4
2. When did you take delivery? August 2012
3. What is the software version currently installed on your car. See pic below
4. When you do have issues, what are the symptoms and can you please check to see if you are connecting with GPS Satellites by performing the following: Zero satellites. Description above.
5. Determine Installed Software Version see pic below
6. Does the issue resolve itself (i.e. if you park the car and drive it the next day etc) as noted above, resolves itself next day after driving home.
7. Does a hard reset of the NAV/MMI resolve the issue? Have not tried because it always resolves itself but will try tomorrow morning if it isn't resolved.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/pyhetevy.jpg

I'm where the flag is, not where the circle indicates I am (75-80 miles away):

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/unupe6ed.jpg

Zoom in a little - has me 80 miles away and driving to the Keys:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/qe8unuge.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JamesRS5]

Looks like you have exactly the same problem in your S4 Rick which confirms what the Audi tech said to me about this being an Audi wide problem.
If the system starts up without satellites, it fails to go into a 'search the sky' mode and just tries to compute its position instead of acquiring a GPS signal.

Just out of interest, is your car a metallic paint and is the GPS antenna painted?

[RickFLS4]

My car is Ibis White (not metallic), with antenna painted same color. I'll post again later today after I see if it fixes itself like it typically does.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[RickFLS4]

Fixed itself today. 11 satellites.

[JamesRS5]

I have never seen more than 4 satellites on my system when it's working, my VW picks up 10 to 11 in the same area and same time.

[superswiss]

Little bit of an update on this one. Although my Nav has been fine again so far, I've kept bugging my SA about the issue. My car is going in for service on Thursday on an unrelated matter and I just spoke to my SA. He gave me an update on the Nav situation. Apparently, this is a software issue in all 2013, 2014 and 2015 models. The MMI is reading the satellite signals incorrectly under certain conditions and putting the car into the wrong place as a consequence. There is a bulletin about it, but no fix yet. Audi had a fix, but they packaged it up with a faulty MMI firmware update that bricked the unit and they pulled the update. My SA is creating a pending work order or something like that to document that I'm having this issue and as soon as the fix is available they will update my unit. He said he was going to email me the bulletin so I can read all about it. For those who are getting their MMI replaced, chances are the new unit has the same issue and will need the software update once it is out.

More update: SA just emailed. He is unable to capture the info correctly with screenshots. I got the terminology wrong. Audi has what's called a Pending Service Solution for this issue in their system. Below is what my SA captured from his screen. Audi wants dealers to call in each vehicle with this issue, so they can track it.


Select Topic Assigned Topic Topic Name Topic Description Topic Status Cust Count PSS Doc Cust Q&A Doc Last Q&A Update Dlr Doc Last Dlr Update

[2011] [N] 91 MMI 3G+ GPS Inaccurate Customer states the navigation system is not tracking the vehicle correctly. Active 4
2035919_4.pdf

[superswiss]

One more update. Just came back from dropping off my car for service. Turns out my SA was mistaken about this being a software fix, he must have confused it with another issue. He talked to the Engineer yesterday and the cause of this issue is a faulty part in the MMI. What Audi is doing now is collecting the info of all affected cars and then ship out the new part to the respective dealers, so they can get these cars fixed. So, if you are affected by this issue you wanna call up your SA and talk to them about the PSS (Pending Service Solution) I posted above.

On a side note, they gave me an A3 Quattro loaner. I want that MMI in my car. The faster Tegra chip makes a huge difference. Voice recognition is pretty much instantaneous now. Processing a spoken address takes like 1-2 seconds most before it pops up on the screen. Lots of nice software improvements, too. The Nav now shows reported traffic delays in minutes for your current route and the Now Playing screen for the Radio/Media is pretty cool, too. Haven't tried the LTE connection. I don't have a right size AT&T SIM in my phone to try it out. Have to check out a demo unit one of these days.

[JamesRS5]

I'm still waiting on my replacement MMI, Audi informed me it would be 5 weeks for the replacement, those 5 weeks have come and gone and still nothing.
A brand new RS5 and Audi are making me feel like they couldn't care less. My biggest regret is not buying the BMW M4.

A warning for all potential Audi customers in Dubai, avoid Al Nabooda and buy from Ali and Sons in Abu Dhabi.

[superswiss]

I'm still waiting on my replacement MMI, Audi informed me it would be 5 weeks for the replacement, those 5 weeks have come and gone and still nothing.
A brand new RS5 and Audi are making me feel like they couldn't care less. My biggest regret is not buying the BMW M4.

A warning for all potential Audi customers in Dubai, avoid Al Nabooda and buy from Ali and Sons in Abu Dhabi.

Chances are they are waiting to send a replacement with the new part in it already.

[JamesRS5]

Unfortunately my grievances with Audi run deeper than just the cars inability to Navigate.

They damaged my first delivery so I had to wait 8 months for this car, they lied about the car systems functionality, Audi connect does not work in cars here in the UAE.
The cars windows were scratched by the Audi valet guys, something they tried to deny but the matching scratches in the paintwork backed up my requests to have the drivers window replaced.

I'm just so pissed with Al Nabooda Audi that I really don't enjoy this car anymore, it's been sat under a cover for over a week now, I don't want to drive it.

[superswiss]

Sounds like your issue is primarily with the dealer. From their website it looks like they are the exclusive distributor of VW, Audi, Porsche. Are there no other Audi dealers you can take your car to for service? A bad dealer relationship can definitely sour the enjoyment of the car.

[superswiss]

Looks like the fix for this issue is a new redesigned MMI unit. The units are not officially released yet, but my SA managed to twist Audi's arms and release a unit ahead of time for my car. I just got a note that they are done with the install, but they need to do some more testing tomorrow and report back to Audi. I'm really curious about the firmware version that's gonna be on this unit and potentially some other improvements. My SA said the programming procedures are different for this unit, so he wasn't able to transfer my data, which sounds like there were hardware and software changes. I should get my car tomorrow and I will report back.

[superswiss]

Ok, got my car back with the new MMI unit and had a chance to discuss with the SA what the actual issue is. The issue is a piece of insulation that whenever the A/C is turned on gets pushed into the MMI unit. I'm making an educated guess that freezing air and moisture then gets onto the MMI circuits causing malfunctions.

Anyway, the new MMI unit has been redesigned to avoid this issue and it also has newer software on it. I previously had US firmware 715_2 and now I have 733. Haven't spent much time with it yet, but I noticed some performance improvements in certain areas. Also, it appears that this issue not only affects the GPS signal but also the cellular modem. For the past few months, I've been having issues with my data connection dropping to 2G where I should have a very strong 3G signal. Sometimes it stayed on 2G all day long no matter where I went. I just drove through some of the areas where it had dropped to 2G and I now have a solid 3G signal in those areas.

So far I'm the only one in the US with the new MMI unit. The field engineer's son works at my dealership so they were able to pull some strings. Audi doesn't have enough of the new units yet to start sending them out. I'm not sure what your deal is going to be James, but the US units have different hardware than the EU units.

As I mentioned above, get your Pending Service Solution into the system by talking to your SA. You should be getting a call from AoA once you are in their system.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7534/15661732295_0648bd2937_z.jpg

[VINAUDIS4]

Hi All,

Well I got possession of my 2015 S4 about three months ago. Has around 3k miles on it. Developed this same issue about three days ago with Zero Sat. I have the same Software version and database as the above poster. Today it fixed itself and now reads between 5 to 7 sat. I still made an appointment with my dealer but might cancel it if it continues to work.

[JamesRS5]

A sure test to see if your unit is indeed faulting; park the car where it can't see a satellite, underground shopping mall parking is perfect. Leave the car for a few hours (enough time for the system to completely power down) then drive back out into the open. Monitor the system to see how long it takes to detect satellites. In my case it never recovers so will always read zero until I power the car down and back up again in an open air area where it can see the sky.

My car is going in next week for a new nav unit.

[JamesRS5]

Ok, got my car back with the new MMI unit and had a chance to discuss with the SA what the actual issue is. The issue is a piece of insulation that whenever the A/C is turned on gets pushed into the MMI unit. I'm making an educated guess that freezing air and moisture then gets onto the MMI circuits causing malfunctions.

Anyway, the new MMI unit has been redesigned to avoid this issue and it also has newer software on it. I previously had US firmware 715_2 and now I have 733. Haven't spent much time with it yet, but I noticed some performance improvements in certain areas. Also, it appears that this issue not only affects the GPS signal but also the cellular modem. For the past few months, I've been having issues with my data connection dropping to 2G where I should have a very strong 3G signal. Sometimes it stayed on 2G all day long no matter where I went. I just drove through some of the areas where it had dropped to 2G and I now have a solid 3G signal in those areas.

So far I'm the only one in the US with the new MMI unit. The field engineer's son works at my dealership so they were able to pull some strings. Audi doesn't have enough of the new units yet to start sending them out. I'm not sure what your deal is going to be James, but the US units have different hardware than the EU units.

As I mentioned above, get your Pending Service Solution into the system by talking to your SA. You should be getting a call from AoA once you are in their system.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7534/15661732295_0648bd2937_z.jpg


I don't believe that insulation and freezing nonsense for one minute. My nav system fails to detect satellites with the ac turned off and the car at 35'C.
My Audi tech admitted Audi have made bad nav units and are now trying to recover the situation by pushing out new units, hence the 6 weeks delay for my unit.
He himself has a Q5 with exactly the same problem.

My new unit arrived in country today, I'm over in vegas all next week so they have the car for a week to fit it and run tests.

[superswiss]

I don't believe that insulation and freezing nonsense for one minute. My nav system fails to detect satellites with the ac turned off and the car at 35'C.
My Audi tech admitted Audi have made bad nav units and are now trying to recover the situation by pushing out new units, hence the 6 weeks delay for my unit.
He himself has a Q5 with exactly the same problem.

My new unit arrived in country today, I'm over in vegas all next week so they have the car for a week to fit it and run tests.

Well, if nothing else, I got a firmware update and updated nav database out of it. Although, the next day my B&O unit crapped out. Only soft, muffled sound, but it fixed itself after having the car parked underground for about an hour while eating dinner. The good news is it acquired satellites afterwards. My car is going back in tomorrow and they gonna call Audi about the audio issue.

[VINAUDIS4]

Well, my 2015 S4 GPS was working but now its not. Reading 0 Satellites. Since I've noticed this problem, I've been checking the number of Satellites every time I start my car. The GPS was tracking fine all the way to work. Checked it again once I parked it in a very open parking lot. There I notice it had 0 Satellites however, the location was correct on the map. I did a reset of the MMI and check the map and now the location was completely off.
I think it lost Satellites on the way to work and relied on the ECU sensors to calculate its position. Once I reset the MMI with 0 satellites the map was way off again. There must be something wrong with the way the MMI checks for Satellites. Either it gets hung up on relying on the ECU sensors or it only checks Satellites under certain situation. Once it goes to 0 satellites it take a long time for the system to come back. FYI - the location where I parked my car at work as given me 7 to 8 satellites before. So the problem only occurs when you go to 0 satellites.

[JamesRS5]

Your car is navigating without using GPS, it just uses steering angle input and velocity to estimate its position, it overlays this onto the know roads in its database and gives you a position. If you drive on a road which isn't in the database it will instantly go off course and become lost.
The fact you are tracking zero satellites means you also have a faulty system, you should flag this up with your dealer ASAP.

[RickFLS4]

I don't believe that insulation and freezing nonsense for one minute. My nav system fails to detect satellites with the ac turned off and the car at 35'C.
My Audi tech admitted Audi have made bad nav units and are now trying to recover the situation by pushing out new units, hence the 6 weeks delay for my unit.
He himself has a Q5 with exactly the same problem.

My new unit arrived in country today, I'm over in vegas all next week so they have the car for a week to fit it and run tests.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about the insulation and freezing. My a/c is on every time I am in the car and the only time this issue arise is when I park in a certain hotel's parking garage. I can reset the Nav unit with the a/c on and it goes away (which I have tried now since earlier posts).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[scmguru]

I don't believe that insulation and freezing nonsense for one minute. My nav system fails to detect satellites with the ac turned off and the car at 35'C.
My Audi tech admitted Audi have made bad nav units and are now trying to recover the situation by pushing out new units, hence the 6 weeks delay for my unit.
He himself has a Q5 with exactly the same problem.

My new unit arrived in country today, I'm over in vegas all next week so they have the car for a week to fit it and run tests.

I've had the "updated" MMI running build 733 for the last month or so... so far, so good. Systems engineering isn't an easy task... Audi doesn't make the MMI units and Audi engineers need to work with the MMI manufacturer to both prove there is a problem and then get a fix from the manufacturer.

Clearly, this has been a relatively long standing issue, but it's good to see there is progress being made.

[superswiss]

I've had the "updated" MMI running build 733 for the last month or so... so far, so good. Systems engineering isn't an easy task... Audi doesn't make the MMI units and Audi engineers need to work with the MMI manufacturer to both prove there is a problem and then get a fix from the manufacturer.

Clearly, this has been a relatively long standing issue, but it's good to see there is progress being made.


So you scored a new unit before me or is this on your new car? The new unit is definitely improved. It reacquires the satellite signal much faster if it looses it due to obstruction. For example I have this highway tunnel near my house that got a new bore about 6 months ago. The new bore is still not even in the newest database, so whenever I go through the new bore it obviously looses the satellite signal and it has me on side streets on the other end of the tunnel once I emerge. It used to take several miles before it had me back on the highway. Now it corrects the position shortly after coming out of the tunnel.


Sent from my Studio 1747 using Tapatalk

[sternalot]

Anyone have an issue with MMI deleting radio presets on a regular basis? I've stopped trying to save things because every 3 weeks it wipes itself clean.

[scmguru]

So you scored a new unit before me or is this on your new car? The new unit is definitely improved. It reacquires the satellite signal much faster if it looses it due to obstruction. For example I have this highway tunnel near my house that got a new bore about 6 months ago. The new bore is still not even in the newest database, so whenever I go through the new bore it obviously looses the satellite signal and it has me on side streets on the other end of the tunnel once I emerge. It used to take several miles before it had me back on the highway. Now it corrects the position shortly after coming out of the tunnel.


Sent from my Studio 1747 using Tapatalk

2nd Replacement for what came in my RS originally, the first having an earlier Firmware version

[superswiss]

I see. I'm actually not sure firmware version 0733 alone is indicative of the new hardware. It looks like 0733 is what comes on 2015 models in general if the A4 loaner I had the other day is any indication. It really bothers me now that Audi is not pushing out regular firmware updates for the MMI. This version is noticeably improved over what I had on my original unit. It boots faster, all the subsystems are ready sooner, it's faster overall, traffic data comes in quicker, Bluetooth establishes quicker, my contacts sync quicker and Audi Connect is faster, too and it establishes the data connection quicker. Regarding traffic data, I'm also not sure if this is a coincidence, but I'm getting improved data now. It's showing traffic flow on more streets and it's finally showing construction zones that have been there for a while.

[scmguru]

Definitely, new hardware..

[JamesRS5]

I had the new 5F unit replaced a week ago, so far there have been no issues at all. The system now detects satellites within a minute of pulling to of the car park.
Audi had sent 10 replacement units to Dubai to try and catch up with the reported faults here so they are trying to get on top of it.

[Elanmike]

I was wondering if the fact this post went dormant for a while now means this is fixed for most of you? After 4 separate visits to the dealer at which they supposedly 'fixed' this issue with my car, on my last and fifth visit the dealer finally replaced my navigation system. A couple of weeks later and the new one is getting lost too. This is driving me crazy; 2 years I've been dealing with this issue, 5 visits to the dealer (most of which were 4 or more days) and it's still not fixed!
Where do I go next?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[superswiss]

It's been fixed for me since I got the 5F module replaced end of October '14. Here's the info from my work order.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8584/16044318184_3509ee0a78_z.jpg

There's now a new firmware update as well that supposedly fixes additional navigation issues. I got it installed on Tuesday. Here's the thread I started if you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/652732-MMI-firmware-update-HN-R_US_AU_K0814-available

[JamesRS5]

I had the same as Superswiss, no further issues from mine.

Have they replaced your 5F module?

[RickFLS4]

I was wondering if the fact this post went dormant for a while now means this is fixed for most of you? After 4 separate visits to the dealer at which they supposedly 'fixed' this issue with my car, on my last and fifth visit the dealer finally replaced my navigation system. A couple of weeks later and the new one is getting lost too. This is driving me crazy; 2 years I've been dealing with this issue, 5 visits to the dealer (most of which were 4 or more days) and it's still not fixed!
Where do I go next?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I didn't get mine replaced or even bring it up to Audi service. I have continued to see the issue come up whenever I park in a garage overnight (typically when I stay in a particular hotel). Resetting the MMI or resetting the MMI + re-starting the car seems to resolve it for me when it happens. I can see how it would be frustrating if you have it happen all the time. When I bring it in for 45k mile service I am going to bring the work order info from superswiss in post 71 to see what my SA says.

[Elanmike]

So I just found out that the module that got replaced was the 5F module. The software is the latest. And still my Nav is getting lost. Audi dealer has no idea what to do next [emoji35]

[superswiss]

So I just found out that the module that got replaced was the 5F module. The software is the latest. And still my Nav is getting lost. Audi dealer has no idea what to do next [emoji35]

Well, they should call Audi tech support and have an engineer come out to diagnose the issue. Perhaps there is something wrong with your GPS antenna or wiring.

[Elanmike]

The guy at the dealer told me I need to call AofA and have them figure something out. They say they've been working with them but no ideas. I'll tell them to get a tech in. Thx for the advice.

[scmguru]

5f module update

[Elanmike]

So if my 5F module is updated but I still have the issue is there a way to tell if the module they used is one of the new fixed versions or the older version?

[superswiss]

I would expect that the updated 5F module has a different part #, so you can compare the part # from your invoice to the part # on my invoice above. That would be the first indication if they ordered the correct part.

[Elanmike]

I've confirmed the 5F module they installed is the same as shown above (according to the work order), as is the firmware. I picked up the car Monday after a week in the dealer to replace the GPS antenna. 2 days later and the Nav is lost again! At this point there is nothing left to fix. The only thing I can think of is to verify the 5F module is the one they said it is; is there a way to see the model number in the hidden menu, or using a VagCom?
Any other ideas from anyone?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[4RingRook]

My 5F module was just replaced this week too (same part number as above on my invoice). I consistently see between 3-5 satellites, very rarely over 5 - if it hits 7+, it doesnt stay there. New 5F and latest firmware on the unit. The dealer did the Zug update on the car as well which wiped out my Vag com codes, somehow stopped my memory seats from working (since fixed), and my DRLs are no longer on when the car is running. Waiting for a call back tomorrow for next steps. Frustrating for sure.

[4RingRook]

I've confirmed the 5F module they installed is the same as shown above (according to the work order), as is the firmware. I picked up the car Monday after a week in the dealer to replace the GPS antenna. 2 days later and the Nav is lost again! At this point there is nothing left to fix. The only thing I can think of is to verify the 5F module is the one they said it is; is there a way to see the model number in the hidden menu, or using a VagCom?
Any other ideas from anyone?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Do you have your invoice? The part number 8R1-035-746-C CONTR UNIT should be listed.

[superswiss]

Do you have your invoice? The part number 8R1-035-746-C CONTR UNIT should be listed.

That would not be the right 5F module. It should be 8R1-035-746-F. The last letter in the part number is the revision. C would be a much older revision than F.

[4RingRook]

That would not be the right 5F module. It should be 8R1-035-746-F. The last letter in the part number is the revision. C would be a much older revision than F.

Certainly explains my scenario then. I will share that with my SA tomorrow. Thanks!

[superswiss]

Certainly explains my scenario then. I will share that with my SA tomorrow. Thanks!

Looks like there is now an even newer revision, 8R1-035-746-G.

[Elanmike]

Mine is the F version- still failing!

[4RingRook]

Looks like there is now an even newer revision, 8R1-035-746-G.

Yep and according to my SA "that was a vin specific order - it's the most current one and I shouldn't believe what I read on forums." (Again my invoice says C)

Getting consistent 3-5 satellites is not normal and is beyond annoying to fight dealerships on sporadic issues that don't show an error code.

edit: Car had 8+ satellites in the same areas that had 3-5 yesterday - maybe fixed, no idea.

[4RingRook]

Car is at the dealer again for this. Maybe I can get the dealer to believe me that the module is not the most recent revision. I'd like the sharkfin replaced as well at this point, but I know they don't want to take the interior apart. Very annoying that there is no rhyme or reason to this. My Q5 loaner on the same roads, in the same conditions with the same Nav HW and SW had no issue today. [headbang]

[4RingRook]

Yep and according to my SA "that was a vin specific order - it's the most current one and I shouldn't believe what I read on forums." (Again my invoice says C)

Getting consistent 3-5 satellites is not normal and is beyond annoying to fight dealerships on sporadic issues that don't show an error code.

edit: Car had 8+ satellites in the same areas that had 3-5 yesterday - maybe fixed, no idea.

To update this. I did have revision C in my car (per work order) and the dealership finally admitted there's a new revision. Overnighting Revision G (latest) for my car and it should be done tomorrow, hopefully.

[Elanmike]

After my update to Rev F failed the dealer changed the antenna and I still had a problem. My car had been in a total of 8 times, most of those for a week at a time trying to get this resolved. The dealer basically threw their hands up and said there was nothing more they could do. So I took it up with AofA. After a few weeks of back and forth they told me the new G version of the module is the definitive fix for the Nav issues. The dealer installed a G Rev module for me yesterday. Hopefully this time it's finally resolved, although after 9 visits do excuse me for being a little skeptical. Time will tell. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

[superswiss]

Post back on how it works with the G-revision. I've been noticing lately that mine actually still loses the satellites once in a while and doesn't regain a signal for extended periods. I notice it when all of a sudden the altitude it displays is completely off and jumps around from sometimes negative altitude to somewhere up on a mountain when I'm actually down at sea level. All this time, though it manages to track my position. It hasn't put me in the wrong place yet. Usually after turning off the car, the next time I start the car it acquires the GPS signal. Not sure if I should take it back. I'm still under the original warranty for at least a year based on my current annual mileage, so I do have some time to monitor it.

[quantumlogic]

My Nav went out over a trip to California with above symptoms and showed me somewhere in the pacific ocean. Did multiple resets with no resolution. Fortunately the car is in warranty so dealer kept the car for all of last week, and ended up replacing antenna. Its working now lets see how much it holds. The Q7 was in cold NW weather until 3 months back when i moved to NV, maybe the extra heat causes antenna failures.

[JamesRS5]

Mine holds up ok at 129F during summer.

[Berraco]

What year is your car? How much was the antenna + install? I am told $650 to $750. Thanks

- - - Updated - - -


My Nav went out over a trip to California with above symptoms and showed me somewhere in the pacific ocean. Did multiple resets with no resolution. Fortunately the car is in warranty so dealer kept the car for all of last week, and ended up replacing antenna. Its working now lets see how much it holds. The Q7 was in cold NW weather until 3 months back when i moved to NV, maybe the extra heat causes antenna failures.

What year is your car? How much was the antenna + install? I am told $650 to $750. Thanks

[quantumlogic]

2013 Q7 TDI, mine was warranty repair so no charge, but i got a glance on some paperwork which is in line with your quote. Its pretty steep to pay out of pocket for a bs flaw. does anyone know of aftermarket fix when car is out of warranty?

[kooltechie]

To update this. I did have revision C in my car (per work order) and the dealership finally admitted there's a new revision. Overnighting Revision G (latest) for my car and it should be done tomorrow, hopefully.


After my update to Rev F failed the dealer changed the antenna and I still had a problem. My car had been in a total of 8 times, most of those for a week at a time trying to get this resolved. The dealer basically threw their hands up and said there was nothing more they could do. So I took it up with AofA. After a few weeks of back and forth they told me the new G version of the module is the definitive fix for the Nav issues. The dealer installed a G Rev module for me yesterday. Hopefully this time it's finally resolved, although after 9 visits do excuse me for being a little skeptical. Time will tell. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

My apology to bring this old thread back.
I too have been experiencing the nav issue and would like to see if the revision G fixes it for good.

Anyone with the revision G unit, please post your result.

Thank you!

[4RingRook]

I've had the Rev G unit since that last post and knock on wood - problem has not returned.

[kooltechie]

that's good to know!
thanks [up]

anyone else with revision G?

[kooltechie]

I've had the Rev G unit since that last post and knock on wood - problem has not returned.

what year is your S5?

[4RingRook]

what year is your S5?

2013

[bpodnar]

My friend have MMI 2G high and he retrofitted few days a go dvd player in trunk with aftermarket indoor GPS antenna Fakra and started to having the same problem with GPS locating just yesterday. No satellite lock at all, counts zero, map is visible and can add a destination, all is functioning but GPS not. He checked all the connectors of GPS antena, radio and Bluetooth, reseting MMI, adding his present location, nothing helped. He left the car today outside and will try tommorow to start navigation. Can it be that aftermarket GPS antenna is bad even it is new and was working fine two days ago?

[bpodnar]

problem is on his A6 c6 2008