M235i Reviews Released - Thoughts?

[trinim3]

The M235i first drive reviews were released today and I'm curious what the S4 community thinks of the car. I gather it's mostly indifference but the M235i does seem to be at least worth a look (the 435i in my book is not). I know most people on this forum are biased against BMW (including myself) but let's try to remove our biases and focus solely on how the M235i stacks up against the S4. (P.S if you don't know what I'm on about in regards to disliking BMW as of late, then read this article (http://www.complex.com/rides/2014/01/are-bmws-glory-days-over)).

Here are some excerpts from some very early reviews. It doesn't seem like the journalists got much seat time to really do an in-depth review so take these with a grain of salt. Lack of steering feel seems to be a reoccurring theme (but S4 drivers are no stranger to that :p)

Bimmerfest Review: (http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/747639/2014-bmw-m235i-driving-review/)
With a day of seat time in the 2014 M235i...what is the verdict? It is hands down the most exciting car BMW is making to date. It is sized for the enthusiasts, yet with enough space to be practical. It has a powerful in-person presence that is both attractive and aggressive while providing all the performance and power you'll ever need on the street. All while being capable of holding it's own on the track. Starting at $44,025 (full M235i pricing) it isn't cheap but for the money there isn't anything else that offers the full range of performance and daily drivability.

Autocar Review: (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/first-drives/bmw-m235i-first-drive-review):
If there's a better driver's car than this in BMW's line-up, then we haven't yet driven it

Automobile mag (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1401-2014-bmw-m235i/#ixzz2qpEBj3SO) :
So don’t think of the 2014 BMW M235i as a Bimmer coupe for someone who couldn’t stretch to a 435i. Think of it as the 435i CSL Lightweight with air conditioning and a $20,000 rebate.

Car Magazine UK: (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/BMW-M235i-2014-CAR-review/)
This car could be the performance bargain of the year.

Top Gear UK (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/bmw-m235i-first-drive-2014-1-18)
Blimey, is there anything this car can't do, short of bringing world peace?

OK, here's the laundry list: the brakes could do with more initial bite. The steering doesn't give much feel, so you're relying on the (generous) seat-of-pants end of things to understand what's going on down at the road. And, while it's a lot better-looking than the old 1-series Coupe it still isn't the prettiest car on the road. People who want to wear their car as much as drive it will still have to go for a 4-series. And yes, its diplomatic skills are at the very least unproven.

Here is a clip of the M235i with performance parts including the performance exhaust which sounds phenomenal (the stock exhaust also sounds really, really good).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOurhOaHV7g

Personally I'm seriously considering getting one and then switching to a M4 when all the first year launch commotion has been settled. I wouldn't say the M235i is an upgrade to a S4...in fact I think the S4 looks a heck of a lot more special than the M235i. I also think the price is still very expensive for what it is, however, I loved kicking the tail out in my e46 M3, and the M235i seems to be the closest thing yet to the e46.

[milk242]

Id say the m235i is the true successor of the e46 m3

[raudiace4]

You are right in the sense that it will probably as close to a E46 M3 as you will get. But for a car to get me out of my S4, it needs to be substantially faster or really special.

[trinim3]

what I also found interesting is how BMW painted the side mirrors on the M235i in silver almost to say "just in case anyone was wondering this is supposed to be a competitor to Audi's S models."

[SteveYem]

The aspect ratio is off....car looks too tall for how short it is. I also dont like the rear valences on the new BMW lineup.

[RickFLS4]

It is smaller than an S4 and the S4 is about as small as I would go, so personally it isn't something I would consider for myself. It might be a good alternative for those driving an S4 that think it has grown too large and don't like the S3.

[lditty]

Audi!

[drob23]

It's a different car than the S4 - lighter, RWD, smaller, coupe. But for sure better performance/price. Would absolutely get this over the S3 or cls amg, mostly because the I6 N55 engine. Especially once BMW makes a grand coupe 4-dr version. I read that the Mx35i models are supposed to be true competitors to Audi S, seems a little like brand dilution, but if they distinguish the car enough then it's welcome competition. Question is what separates this from the 135is? They need to put a LSD in the m235, that would distinguish it enough.

Also, not a fan of some of that ///m performance bling, what's up with all the badges/stickers on it, those side skirts are the worst offender. Really...your side skirts are performance parts?

[Moose201]

The aspect ratio is off....car looks too tall for how short it is. I also dont like the rear valences on the new BMW lineup.

Agree but it's a noticeable improvement over the 1 Series in the looks department.

[jpbadonk]

No AWD = no sale for me. Wouldn't even consider it...

[demonmk2]

Just out of curiosity do any of you guys post Audi stuff in the
Bimmer forums?
Basically is this a troll vs troll kinda thing?

[sidthafish]

Just out of curiosity do any of you guys post Audi stuff in the
Bimmer forums?
Basically is this a troll vs troll kinda thing?

I would say promoting healthy discussion about other cars in an, oh I dunno, car forum is just fine. It can't be all S4, all the time.

[trinim3]

I would say promoting healthy discussion about other cars in an, oh I dunno, car forum is just fine. It can't be all S4, all the time.

Agreed. I do expect a heavy dose of bias and criticism simply b/c it's a BMW especially as most haven't driven it yet. However, I think it's important for the S4 community not to be myopic. We should be aware of what the competition is doing particularly when it comes to BMWs marketed at competing directly with our S models. I'm sure Audi has a 'compete' team that is sifting through all the details about the M235i and we all know that BMW copies Audi and vice versa. Therefore, the benchmarks that BMWs set are usually what Audi and other brands aim for. In addition, many of our readers are BMW converts.

I used to live in Seattle where it absolutely made sense to have an AWD Audi but now that I live in California where I drove in the rain 3 times last year, AWD is kind of unnecessary. Really I'm loyal only to a brand only in the sense that I'll buy whoever makes the best car.

[s4buckeye]

Agreed. I do expect a heavy dose of bias and criticism simply b/c it's a BMW especially as most haven't driven it yet. However, I think it's important for the S4 community not to be myopic. We should be aware of what the competition is doing particularly when it comes to BMWs marketed at competing directly with our S models. I'm sure Audi has a 'compete' team that is sifting through all the details about the M235i and we all know that BMW copies Audi and vice versa. Therefore, the benchmarks that BMWs set are usually what Audi and other brands aim for. In addition, many of our readers are BMW converts.

I used to live in Seattle where it absolutely made sense to have an AWD Audi but now that I live in California where I drove in the rain 3 times last year, AWD is kind of unnecessary. Really I'm loyal only to a brand only in the sense that I'll buy whoever makes the best car.


+1, but especially the last part. AWD is irrelevant in most of CA.



Question is what separates this from the 135is?


BMW will no longer make the 1 series.



Also, not a fan of some of that ///m performance bling, what's up with all the badges/stickers on it, those side skirts are the worst offender. Really...your side skirts are performance parts?

Same as the S-Line concept. All of it is lame.

[drob23]

BMW will no longer make the 1 series.

Yea, but now with the 'M' designation, how does this differ from the 'is' nomenclature. They are trying to prop this up as more than a trim level difference, so my question is what is different from the 235, or previously, the 135is (DCT and factory tune over 135i). There is a pretty significant jump from the A to S in the audi lineup. And my understanding is BMW will make the 1 series as a FWD small sedan to compete with the CLA and A3.



Same as the S-Line concept. All of it is lame.
Audi doesn't offer aftermarket parts, those are OEM aftermarket "performance parts".

[s4buckeye]

Audi doesn't offer aftermarket parts, those are OEM aftermarket "performance parts".


The m package can be "somewhat" of a performance upgrade (aside from a different output on the engine), but it is mostly bling just the like the S-line stuff.

It is still not an "m" at the end of the day.

[drob23]

The m package can be "somewhat" of a performance upgrade, but it is mostly bling just the like the S-line stuff.

Sorry, to be clear, I was referencing the "M performance parts", not the m-sport trim (which is a *must* on the F30, standard bumper is horrible). It's actually cool that BMW provides these options, my point was just that the skirt badges look full retard, I think they also replace the engine cover with something stupid.

This F30 comes to your dealership like this, fully port installed
http://www.eurocarnews.com/media/pictorials/2037/11679.jpg

[s4buckeye]

Sorry, to be clear, I was referencing the "M performance parts", not the m-sport trim (which is a *must* on the F30, standard bumper is horrible). It's actually cool that BMW provides these options, my point was just that the skirt badges look full retard, I think they also replace the engine cover with something stupid.

This F30 comes to your dealership like this, fully port installed


Gotcha.

[trinim3]

The m package can be "somewhat" of a performance upgrade (aside from a different output on the engine), but it is mostly bling just the like the S-line stuff.

It is still not an "m" at the end of the day.

There are a few 'performance' options that should be standard in order for this car to start with a 'M.' Those would be the LSD, the cross drilled rotors, and an actual rear diffuser. Really if you add those as a dealer or port installed options this car is then priced closer to $60k which would very much be a rip-off....hmm yeah I think I'll skip this one.

[chaos2984]

Ive always looked at bmw's when i was looking for car and comparing them to the Audi's. I don't think bmw that are comparable to Audi's in the sport sense compare at all. Sure the performance and handling might be better on some and such. But when it comes down to it you have to like what you drive and is it fun to you. I don't see how bmw's compare to audis' I haven't seen much of the new new bmw's but the newer exterior bmw's the interior sux balls. It looks like you still in the mid 90s with the interior. Sure the exterior and such look good but the interior is "Rubbish" Just doesn't match the nice exterior of the cars looks. If you look at the audis from the B5 -B6 there was big changes in the interiors. Then from the B6-B7 more changes and then when the B8 came out its totally new. BMW's are nice don't get me wrong but i think the interiors could be nicer looking. Really a analog fuel mpg gauge its the 2000's

[westwest888]

You are right in the sense that it will probably as close to a E46 M3 as you will get. But for a car to get me out of my S4, it needs to be substantially faster or really special.

The 1M model they came out with a few years ago is one of the fastest factory cars I've seen out on track that wasn't a complete liability (as a GT-R, ZR1, or GT500 would be - cars that end up in the wall sideways as soon as you get on the power). Multiple of them with multiple drivers at an advanced level - every time they would pull away from me at Buttonwillow and Laguna Seca.

I expect the M235i will be more of the same.

[drob23]

The 1M model they came out with a few years ago is one of the fastest factory cars I've seen out on track that wasn't a complete liability (as a GT-R, ZR1, or GT500 would be - cars that end up in the wall sideways as soon as you get on the power). Multiple of them with multiple drivers at an advanced level - every time they would pull away from me at Buttonwillow and Laguna Seca.

I expect the M235i will be more of the same.

West, why don't you just get the 'M235i Racing' version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqimhN3B2uE

Also, those 1M's truly are unicorns, it's almost like the value only goes up [o_o]

[trinim3]

there are 2011 1Ms going for $70k on ebay. Crazy how successful that car was considering all BMW did was take e92 M3 parts and strap it to a 135i. Makes you wonder why BMW doesn't make more cars like the 1M with all the demand that car received. I suppose the M235i was supposed to fill the void, but it isn't as raw. Maybe they are saving room for a M2.

[Seis-Speed]

No AWD = no sale for me. Wouldn't even consider it...

The AWD XDrive models will be available by fall. No manual though...

[levigarrett]

The aspect ratio is off....car looks too tall for how short it is. I also dont like the rear valences on the new BMW lineup.
This.

I'm not a fan of the looks but it certainly seems like stout package.

[gendry]

Agreed. I do expect a heavy dose of bias and criticism simply b/c it's a BMW especially as most haven't driven it yet. However, I think it's important for the S4 community not to be myopic. We should be aware of what the competition is doing particularly when it comes to BMWs marketed at competing directly with our S models. I'm sure Audi has a 'compete' team that is sifting through all the details about the M235i and we all know that BMW copies Audi and vice versa. Therefore, the benchmarks that BMWs set are usually what Audi and other brands aim for. In addition, many of our readers are BMW converts.

This wording seems odd to me. Unless you/we/etc. own a shitload of Audi stock or work for Audi, why is this competition to us? I own an S4 because I decided I liked that particular car from other options at the time not because I am routing for Audi as my hometeam. 235i/335i/etc. are not competition to me any more than an S3/A6.etc., they are just other options. I know I am nitpicking, but it seems fanboyish...

Me personally, I hope BMW makes a car that destroys the S4 in every category. Progress is good.

[trinim3]

This wording seems odd to me. Unless you/we/etc. own a shitload of Audi stock or work for Audi, why is this competition to us? I own an S4 because I decided I liked that particular car from other options at the time not because I am routing for Audi as my hometeam. 235i/335i/etc. are not competition to me any more than an S3/A6.etc., they are just other options. I know I am nitpicking, but it seems fanboyish...

Me personally, I hope BMW makes a car that destroys the S4 in every category. Progress is good.

I agree that the one sentence you highlighted does sound a bit fanboyish and I've been very deliberate in trying to prevent this thread from becoming a BMW vs. Audi fanboy war. That's why I subsequently said:

"The benchmarks that BMWs set are usually what Audi and other brands aim for." That's why I think it's important to keep tabs on what the competition is doing. Also said in the same post "I'm loyal only to a brand only in the sense that I'll buy whoever makes the best car."

So we both agreed that competition is good because it leads to progress. I'm hopeful that the new CTS-V, RC F, C63AMG and hopefully the S4/RS4 will demolish the upcoming BMW M3/M4.

[SwankPeRFection]

The 1M model they came out with a few years ago is one of the fastest factory cars I've seen out on track that wasn't a complete liability (as a GT-R, ZR1, or GT500 would be - cars that end up in the wall sideways as soon as you get on the power). Multiple of them with multiple drivers at an advanced level - every time they would pull away from me at Buttonwillow and Laguna Seca.

I expect the M235i will be more of the same.

Don't put the AWD GTR in that same "end up in the wall" league. If you can't drive even an AWD car, then you got issues and don't need to be in anything with too much power or no stability and traction control turned on.

[westwest888]

Don't put the AWD GTR in that same "end up in the wall" league. If you can't drive even an AWD car, then you got issues and don't need to be in anything with too much power or no stability and traction control turned on.

They go into the a wall. A lot. I don't know what it is about them.

[chrisbryan89]

I like it better than the one series

[BoostEasy]

Given the price point of about $50k fully optioned with things a sane person would want (nav, garage door opener, real leather seats, music upgrade etc) and skipping the fluff, it's not badly priced for what you get. It's about $9k cheaper than a similar 435i with the m sport and m brakes added to match it.

I wouldn't see it as a competitor to the S4 or S5 and the price reflects that (about $10k less).

Having owned two tuned 335 XIs and having driven a new 335xi F30, I would say this car should be a blast to drive if you can fit in it.
1) it's probably close to 3500lbs and RWD vs about 3900lbs for a 335XI or S4. that's probably borderline 12s with traction completely stock from a performance standpoint. I don't recall if they offer perf pack/overboost for it yet.
2) aftermarket is ready to receive it. Burger will have a tune for it shortly after he gets his hands on one, hopefully others will too. The first F30 N55 turbo upgrade should be going together in a handful of months and the first N55 hybrid made 470WHP and went 11.4 in a 335i already, so serious parts are starting to show up for the N55 finally.
3) it appears to already have the M brakes but it will be interesting to see if it has any of the handling components from the M3/M4. I suspect not all of them so it may not be a 1M perhaps but it still apparently hauls around a track pretty good and you'll likely be able to buy the M3 parts if you really want them.
4) I drove an F30 with the same 8AT that's in the M235i and that trans is NICE. Shifts really fast and smooth.

Overall not a bad little car for $50k and, given it's a BMW, you'll probably be able to lease one for $550-$570/mo with MSD once it's out for 6 months if people aren't buying them like mad.

[cspcrx]

West, why don't you just get the 'M235i Racing' version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqimhN3B2uE

Also, those 1M's truly are unicorns, it's almost like the value only goes up [o_o]

I can't find it but he explained in another thread that his million dollar appartment only has one parking space because he lives in San Francisco.

[westwest888]

It's hard enough to just buy a normal car from a BMW dealer. They would never be able to find the part number for that racecar, and follow through on you wanting to give them money.

[psmitty95]

This wording seems odd to me. Unless you/we/etc. own a shitload of Audi stock or work for Audi, why is this competition to us? I own an S4 because I decided I liked that particular car from other options at the time not because I am routing for Audi as my hometeam. 235i/335i/etc. are not competition to me any more than an S3/A6.etc., they are just other options. I know I am nitpicking, but it seems fanboyish...

Me personally, I hope BMW makes a car that destroys the S4 in every category. Progress is good.

I think/hope that car will be the F80 M3

[ahcow]

Umm..I actually like BMW...but I have never, ever, liked the 1-series because it looks like a chopped off 3 series.

No brand loyalty here, I go where I get the best value in my books. The S4 won that vs. the 335 at the time. Who knows when I need to buy a car next.. but I know it wouldn't be this ugly car. I don't care how fast it goes because I got other priorities...like how it looks and creature comforts.

[jpbadonk]

The AWD XDrive models will be available by fall. No manual though...

Shame...although if it is good enough, I could be convinced.

[sidthafish]

Umm..I actually like BMW...but I have never, ever, liked the 1-series because it looks like a chopped off 3 series.

No brand loyalty here, I go where I get the best value in my books. The S4 won that vs. the 335 at the time. Who knows when I need to buy a car next.. but I know it wouldn't be this ugly car. I don't care how fast it goes because I got other priorities...like how it looks and creature comforts.

I'm with most guys here. I don't have any brand loyalty and to do so IMO is just naive. My only beef with BMW (and MB) is that they nickle and dime you for EVERY option that should be standard on a luxury car. That is one of the primary reasons I went with Audi over BMW.

I think this vehicle will fill a niche. But at almost $50k optioned (from what I have read) how acessible is it to the "normal" people that it is marketed towards?

[LakeShow]

Looks alright and power seems good.

[ahcow]

I'm with most guys here. I don't have any brand loyalty and to do so IMO is just naive. My only beef with BMW (and MB) is that they nickle and dime you for EVERY option that should be standard on a luxury car. That is one of the primary reasons I went with Audi over BMW.

I think this vehicle will fill a niche. But at almost $50k optioned (from what I have read) how acessible is it to the "normal" people that it is marketed towards?

You know what, Audi is just like that now too. They all want to show a low base price and stack it with options. However, I have to say BMW is the worst of the three right now...I was at the dealer few months ago and they had a $78K (pre-tax) 335 sedan on the floor with a laundry list of packages. How the heck does that car get to $78k??? The starting price of a 335 is about $55k. If I want to buy a car where after options, the price is 50% higher than starting, I can just buy a P-car.

[blmlozz]

I have to say, BMW's naming scheme is the worst in the business secondly only to infinity right now.
I couldn't even tell you what the difference is between a 1 and 2 series is. I barely understand their reasoning behind the 3 and 4 series departure(I understand their willingness to expand the model line, but they have so much brand name stock in the 3 series that whipping up a new name and plastering it on your race-car boy coupe is stupid imo), and the GT 5 series designation is just fubar.


You know what, Audi is just like that now too. They all want to show a low base price and stack it with options. However, I have to say BMW is the worst of the three right now...I was at the dealer few months ago and they had a $78K (pre-tax) 335 sedan on the floor with a laundry list of packages. How the heck does that car get to $78k??? The starting price of a 335 is about $55k. If I want to buy a car where after options, the price is 50% higher than starting, I can just buy a P-ca
I find it to be a bit of a double edged sword. I like being able to spec a car as bare-bones as I want it to be, that's sort of the attraction to say, a 320I stripper with a 6mt and nothing else, but you're right. Not only do you have options to select from but these days you can even tailor your 3 series into different themes as well. It's really mind numbing and I'm not certian people acutally want that kind of flexiability given you then have to guess what the market wants for on-lot avability vs having to order a car for a customer.

On the reverse side, you don't want too few selections, or force people into selections for the sake of reduced configurability. Cadillac and lexus are guilty of this, their whole ordering system is screwed up.

[jlaudio]

I have to say, BMW's naming scheme is the worst in the business secondly only to infinity right now.
I couldn't even tell you what the difference is between a 1 and 2 series is. I barely understand their reasoning behind the 3 and 4 series departure(I understand their willingness to expand the model line, but they have so much brand name stock in the 3 series that whipping up a new name and plastering it on your race-car boy coupe is stupid imo), and the GT 5 series designation is just fubar.

m4/4 series is a purpose built coupe, the m3 is built on the 3 series chassis
their new naming scheme is catering to the enthusiast

[blmlozz]

m4/4 series is a purpose built coupe, the m3 is built on the 3 series chassis
their new naming scheme is catering to the enthusiast
I don't understand why they needed the name change to accomplish that though. I understand their reasoning; because it's more of a deviation from what a 3 series coupe used to be.

However, I'm not jumping out of my mind to get into an M4. The name means nothing to me. The M3 has been BMW's signature small sports car for the last 30 years. They're just undone most of that brand name recognition.

This is just like what Ford did with the Taurus brand name. They dumped it because they thought the rental car it had become was so tarnished that it wasn't worth saving. The first thing allen mulally did was he stuck that brand name on anything he could get a hold of(at that time it was called the ford 500) and it's come back as the taurus and taurus sho which have been a good sales success. Even though the prior model was a true POS. People still recognized the name.

BMW has erred in the same way. True, the M3 will live on as a sedan, but the greatest M3's are coupes. There will be no more M3 coupe.

[trinim3]

The only reason for the change by BMW is that they thought it was somehow necessary to compete with Audi. Audi has an A4/S4 sedan and BMW wants to make the 3 series [sedan] go toe-toe with that. Then there's the A5/S5 model which BMW wants to go toe-toe with their new 4series (the coupe). The 1 series isn't available anymore as that is now the 2 series which is supposed to compete with the A3/S3. Personally I don't understand why BMW didn't name the sedan the even numbered (m4 should be the sedan) and leave the odd numbers as the coupe (M3 should be the coupe). Likely they did it because they didn't want the M3 being compared to the RS3 and since they couldn't change the 3 series to the 5 series they felt they had no alternative?...kudos to anyone that could follow what I just wrote...

[sidthafish]

You know what, Audi is just like that now too. They all want to show a low base price and stack it with options. However, I have to say BMW is the worst of the three right now...I was at the dealer few months ago and they had a $78K (pre-tax) 335 sedan on the floor with a laundry list of packages. How the heck does that car get to $78k??? The starting price of a 335 is about $55k. If I want to buy a car where after options, the price is 50% higher than starting, I can just buy a P-car.

How the hell did they make a 3 series $78k? I can barely get one over $65k with the configurator (335i xDrive w just about every option).

[blmlozz]

The only reason for the change by BMW is that they thought it was somehow necessary to compete with Audi. Audi has an A4/S4 sedan and BMW wants to make the 3 series [sedan] go toe-toe with that. Then there's the A5/S5 model which BMW wants to go toe-toe with their new 4series (the coupe)
There is no A5 heritage to compete with, and the S4/RS4 to which Audi is known for, have traditionally been sedans or avants.

I understand the logic behind the change, I just don't understand why BMW felt it needed to align itself to it's competition in this manner.

Audi has been something on a sales run recently, but not because of their naming scheme imo

[s4buckeye]

How the hell did they make a 3 series $78k? I can barely get one over $65k with the configurator (335i xDrive w just about every option).


He is in Canada.

[b6onboost]

Meh...the 135i turned into the 235i. Still awkwardly proportioned.