B7 3.0 TDI quattro Avant ZF 6HP19 gearbox issues

[QuattroS.Africa]

Hi guys

I recently bought this beauty:

http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/yabb25/Attachments/ad_1_1385953178520.jpg

07 S-Line -extremely rare in South Africa in this spec.
2 tone leather
18" BBS from factory
S-Line sport suspension
Sunroof
SatNav with flip down screen and 2 x SD slots
Colour LCD on cluster with SatNav instructions appearing in color
( MANY of these may be standard for the US market so dont laugh[:D] )

http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/yabb25/Attachments/ad_7_1385953178528.jpg

http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/yabb25/Attachments/ad_3_1385953178523.jpg

Dont like the woodgrain and will be sourcing an RS4 carbon interior
http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/yabb25/Attachments/ad_6_1385953178528.jpg

http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/yabb25/Attachments/ad_10_1385953178530.jpg







Now that I've introduced the car, down to the nitty gritty:

It has a slip between 1st and 2nd gearchanges under load.
When you come to a stop, just before the vehicle becomes stationary, it has a thunk from the drivetrain as though it's hit first gear violently.



I am in the process of buying a solenoid kit but thought I'd post here to get a collective set of opinions.
I dont believe a simple oil change will ever rectify this.
It would not be financially feasable to rebuild the box here, neither will I be able to source another box cheap.


Any input will be appreciated [:)]

[mec]

3.0 TDI and badass seats....jealoussssss

[ktish]

Dat Wagon...

[QuattroS.Africa]

So anybody going to advise me on the gearbox or are we just going to perv?[:D]
Lol maybe i shouldn't have posted pics just yet[;)]

[Axis]

The 3.0TDi avant with two tone euro sline seats, thats not a unicorn to us, thats a mermaid.

Sorry op cant help you with automatic transmission I hope someone can but you have one nice fn car.

[LoKisSpYdR]

Does it happen in Tip or sport mode? Do you have fluctuation between 1800-2200 rpm? If so a failing torque converter may be your culprit. Is your car tuned? The 3.0TDIs can put out mega torque, even with just tuning and pipes. The ZFs are descent trannys that are used in tons of high hp cars (RS6, Quadcoupe, etc) with one MAJOR weak point the torque converter. Honestly, I probably start there and see if that fixes your issues. Upgraded ones (517, IPT, Level10) run about $600USD. That plus a fluid change MAY resolve your issues.
It's a much more likely POF than a gear itself. If you can get your hands on a VAGCOM and monitor the torque converter, that will help.

[4rings5stars]

Ya. We're pretty much gonna perv out over your car!

Mermaid fo sho!

I can haz tissues?? [drool]

[QuattroS.Africa]

Does it happen in Tip or sport mode? Do you have fluctuation between 1800-2200 rpm? If so a failing torque converter may be your culprit. Is your car tuned? The 3.0TDIs can put out mega torque, even with just tuning and pipes. The ZFs are descent trannys that are used in tons of high hp cars (RS6, Quadcoupe, etc) with one MAJOR weak point the torque converter. Honestly, I probably start there and see if that fixes your issues. Upgraded ones (517, IPT, Level10) run about $600USD. That plus a fluid change MAY resolve your issues.
It's a much more likely POF than a gear itself. If you can get your hands on a VAGCOM and monitor the torque converter, that will help.

It happens in normal auto mode and sport mode.
I know it definitely isn't a gear because there isn't any hunting or grinding. I'm leaning towards the solenoid replacement and an oil change.

Can you recommend anybody cheaper than thectsc?

I have to factor in shipping and import taxes so it's quite a price to pay for something this small.

[LoKisSpYdR]

It's going to cost you $500+(USD) for the solenoid kit and another $500+ for the gaskets and tranny fluid from pretty much anyone, and that's before any shipping or taxes on it. Since the most common point of failure is the torque converter, as I said in my previous post, I'd start with that, and I'd buy an upgraded one. Your car is rated at 500Nm of torque....stock!
I'd give one of the guys listed in my previous post a call they may be able to lead you in the right direction and may also have all of the necessary parts you need. It's worth a call or an email.

[Bazer]

Very nice car!

I had similar issues and had a gearbox oil flush and that fixed it (for about 50k miles now)
I would start with that as you can easily have it done locally. If that doesn't fix it, you might want to start thinking about torque converter etc.
In the UK or other EU countries parts are available as well, not sure if importing from those countries would be easier for you.

[QuattroS.Africa]

Very nice car!

I had similar issues and had a gearbox oil flush and that fixed it (for about 50k miles now)
I would start with that as you can easily have it done locally. If that doesn't fix it, you might want to start thinking about torque converter etc.
In the UK or other EU countries parts are available as well, not sure if importing from those countries would be easier for you.


It would be easier to import from Europe but i haven't been able to pinpoint a supplier.
Also I have a dude on our local forum who has bought the exact solenoids from thectsc and had success.

He did try an oil change but no difference. I suppose I should do that first and if no joy I will look at the torque converter and the solenoids, in that order.


Thanks for your input





It's going to cost you $500+(USD) for the solenoid kit and another $500+ for the gaskets and tranny fluid from pretty much anyone, and that's before any shipping or taxes on it. Since the most common point of failure is the torque converter, as I said in my previous post, I'd start with that, and I'd buy an upgraded one. Your car is rated at 500Nm of torque....stock!
I'd give one of the guys listed in my previous post a call they may be able to lead you in the right direction and may also have all of the necessary parts you need. It's worth a call or an email.


Thanks for your help.
Do you have contact details for them?
I'm not familiar with the companies.

[B72011]

You can source a used box here in the states from www.car-part.com and then have it put onto a container bound for Saffa. It can be done, you might have to pay someone a few hundred $$ to facilitate it but I bet some well meaning coastal living Az'er would do ya right.....if all else fails.



It would be easier to import from Europe but i haven't been able to pinpoint a supplier.
Also I have a dude on our local forum who has bought the exact solenoids from thectsc and had success.

He did try an oil change but no difference. I suppose I should do that first and if no joy I will look at the torque converter and the solenoids, in that order.


Thanks for your input







Thanks for your help.
Do you have contact details for them?
I'm not familiar with the companies.

[LoKisSpYdR]

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/

www.levelten.com

http://517trans.com/

I'd email all three and see who responds and with what information. Let us know progress.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, you need to dump the tranny fluid during a TC swap, which is why I would just do them both at once.
Upgraded TC - $600
Trans Fluid Flush/Fill Kit - $500+

Seems like a waste to do it and not fix it and then spend the same $500+ again to get the tranny fluid, gaskets, etc....

[QuattroS.Africa]

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/

www.levelten.com

http://517trans.com/

I'd email all three and see who responds and with what information. Let us know progress.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, you need to dump the tranny fluid during a TC swap, which is why I would just do them both at once.
Upgraded TC - $600
Trans Fluid Flush/Fill Kit - $500+

Seems like a waste to do it and not fix it and then spend the same $500+ again to get the tranny fluid, gaskets, etc....

Thanks for that.
OK so I haven't pulled codes yet because my VAGCOM cable was stolen, but the car is in a shop and as soon as they open for the new year I'll pull them and post the codes.
I also am going to - depending on the codes- do a transmission fluid change since it's available locally from ZF. I dont mind spending that $200 to see if the problem is fixed.

Failing this I will begin with the TC and Solenoid imports.

[QuattroS.Africa]

Ok folks.

So I did the oil change....
The kick when the car becomes stationary has become far less pronounced but still crops up.

The slip between 3rd and 4th seems to be less violent but still there..


Is there a chance the internals simply need to get deglazed and the oil topped up after a few hundred miles?
My theory is if an oil change alleviated the symptoms to a degree, there definitely was a need for that.

Error codes show a slip about 1000km ago.

[B72011]

Deglazed? Nah. Whats happening is the ZF trans is shot in some manner. The only thing that will solve your issues is a new (or new to you) transmission. Save up some $$ and hope you can still drive it till she blows!

[QuattroS.Africa]

Deglazed? Nah. Whats happening is the ZF trans is shot in some manner. The only thing that will solve your issues is a new (or new to you) transmission. Save up some $$ and hope you can still drive it till she blows!
big bucks here for that- I honestly dont mind setting a budget of lets say $2000 of trial and errors before having to make that decision.

The thing that puzzles me is that the oil change DID alleviate the symptoms ALMOST entirely.
Yes, It could be a case of fixing the symptoms and not addressing the cause, but i'm willing to take my chances on a solenoid kit or torque converter.

Let me give more details: the slip I get when changing to 4th isnt during the actual shift- it changes fine but after about 3 seconds it does it while actually IN 4th gear.

My limited knowledge of these boxes recalls a "LOCK UP" mechanism that detaches the load off the TC by keeping the selected gear in direct contact with the engine's output- prevents premature wear etc and ensures a smooth run of that particular gear.

Is it possible that when this lock up is engaged , there is some friction?

[QuattroS.Africa]

CODES pulled on Saturday:

Saturday,25,January,2014,15:05:51:62939
VCDS Version: Release 12.12.0

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E1 910 156 H HW: 09L 927 156 B
Component and/or Version: AG6 09L 3.0lTDI 171 0030
Software Coding: 0000002
Work Shop Code: WSC 06325 000 00000
VCID: 2C57E23B8FFEEC7E18B-8079
2 Faults Found:

001923 - Shift Monitoring
P0783 - 000 - 3-4 Shift - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 171076 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2064.00.00
Time: 00:00:00

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 896 /min
RPM: 960 /min
RPM: 1152 /min
(no units): 36.0
(no units): 20.0
Temperature: 84.0°C
T.B. Angle: 0.0°

009984 - Transmission Friction Element / Clutch A
P2700 - 000 - Apply Time Implausible - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 171634 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2064.00.00
Time: 00:00:00

[papadelogan]

QuattroS.Africa - GORGEOUS car!!! no matter how well optioned a U.S. spec A4 could be, you've got us KILLED with the 3.0 TDI underhood. Most Americans have no clue about the potential of diesel engines. Heck, many Audi enthusiasts have no idea about the R10, R15, or R18... I would love to have that car here in the U.S. ..... even with the steering wheel on the wrong side! [:D] With a 6speed manual behind ti, I'd never sell it.

Good luck with getting the trans sorted. The links provided by LoKisSpYdR are to the places that, should you need them, will have not just parts, but the 'right parts' to do the job proper. Let us know what works in the end.

[B72011]

You might try posting in the Transmission section of AZ----a guy there Scotty--knows shit stuff.
Good luck with it.
BTW---do you still have the RS2 Porsche / Audi Avant?
Man that looks like a totlly sick car. At some point they'll be eligible for import---Id love to see one of those.
Great looking blue car.

[QuattroS.Africa]

Thanks for the input guys.

@B72011 yes I do. I started a thread on my RS2 I the Misc/ Classics section. Can't paste the link for some reason think this mobile version is restrictive

*EDIT*
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/535448-My-RS-Blue-RS2-(nogaro)-in-South-Africa:

[Scotty@Advanced]

You can source a used box here in the states from www.car-part.com and then have it put onto a container bound for Saffa. It can be done, you might have to pay someone a few hundred $$ to facilitate it but I bet some well meaning coastal living Az'er would do ya right.....if all else fails.

He can't as that transmission was never offered in the USA (it's geared differently).

From the codes it sounds like the valves in the Valve body might be sticking, it's fairly common on these transmissions.

[QuattroS.Africa]

He can't as that transmission was never offered in the USA (it's geared differently).

From the codes it sounds like the valves in the Valve body might be sticking, it's fairly common on these transmissions.

Hey Scotty and thanks for your input.

If you could recommend a fix I will certainly buy the parts from you and nowehre else.
In the meantime the car just would'nt start this weekend so I think i'm in for glow plugs- I will get the car running and give it a week or so of driving to see if the codes recur.
Do you know of a software upgrade for this box?

[Scotty@Advanced]

Hey Scotty and thanks for your input.

If you could recommend a fix I will certainly buy the parts from you and nowehre else.
In the meantime the car just would'nt start this weekend so I think i'm in for glow plugs- I will get the car running and give it a week or so of driving to see if the codes recur.
Do you know of a software upgrade for this box?

Dealers might have a software revision, and also i know the fluid for the 6hp series of gearboxes has changed several times. If you have not used the latest fluid I'd highly recommend flushing the system.

If the issue is the valve body I might can have it overhauled, however if the issue isn't the valve body you will still have problems.

[B72011]

I'd suggest at this point since you already did the oil change that you look up a ZHP19 valve body rebuild. There's one on the net from a guy who did it carefully with his ZHP19 from a Porsche Boxter.....I think they're very close to what you and I have for the B7's. Order those and a new TC. Or source a used trans out of Europe? South Africa has to a tough place to get stuff. Good luck Bon ami

[QuattroS.Africa]

South Africa has to a tough place to get stuff. Good luck Bon ami

Misconception buddy. There's nothing we can't get here. We just get ripped off[:D]

I can get a complete rebuilt mechatronics at the equivalent of about $2000 directly from ZF Services.

This looks like the simplest way out if the parts you suggest run a higher bill than this.

[B72011]

What I hate about the idea of owning an Audi w a tip tropic trans is the utter lack of knowledge dealers and indy repair places have on exactly how to fix a broken transmission. It seems like it should be automated and easy to diagnose and not BS where they tell you that you need a new $7000 unit.

[QuattroS.Africa]

What I hate about the idea of owning an Audi w a tip tropic trans is the utter lack of knowledge dealers and indy repair places have on exactly how to fix a broken transmission. It seems like it should be automated and easy to diagnose and not BS where they tell you that you need a new $7000 unit.


Your'e 100 percent right there.
Dealers here seem to know squat and attribute it to every other possible component- my aunt's X3 3.0D M Sport is giving her issues suddenly- but since it's under warranty it's sitting at BMW who has no less than 7 dealers in my city- but can't get their act together.
I shudder to think what would happen if I owned an M3 and had a faulty box... PUN on the word SHUDDER[:D]



Latest on my B7:

So I drove it 2 hours straight today and was horrified with the behaviour once the box had warmed up completely- all other drives have been less than 15minutes.
The box is silky smooth when cold.. now and then has that violent downchange into 1st gear, but not more.

TODAY however, after it warmed up- once under load it goes from 4th gear into 3rd then JAMS into 1st gear, holds the gear to redline or until i manually changed- whichever came first.

I am suspecting torque converter.
I know it was mentioned before, but somebody please point me to the best UPrated TC out there.
I'll buy the solenoids too.
Heck. Not worth selling this car so I may as well go the full monty.

[AKO]

Is a manual swap out of the question?

[QuattroS.Africa]

update:

one month into a solenoid replacement and everything is sweet [:)]

[AlexS]

abc

[nachofly]

Two Problems Commonly Found With The 6HP19 Transmission

Posted by Regis on Monday, June 10th, 2013

The 6HP19 transmission is a 6 speed made by ZF Friedrichshafen AG. It is designed to be used in rear wheel drive cars. There is also a model 6HP19A that is designed for use in all-wheel drive cars. Care needs to be taken when swapping out the transmissions because there are two totally different gear ratios available for this transmission. One has a final gear ratio of 4.44 while the other is 3.73. All six gears are different between the two transmissions.

The 6HP19 was use in the Hyundai Genesis, and the BMX X3, E60 520i and the 450i. The 6HP19A was used exclusively by VW for the Audi S4 and the VW Phaeton. Let’s take a look at a couple of problems that are commonly found with this fairly complex and expensive transmission.

http://imageshack.com/a/img22/9159/ktkv.jpg

The ZF 6HP19 transmission
Source: autoreview.ru
Symptom: Burnt up clutch packs. Problem: This is caused by failures in the valve body. At first you will most likely experience problems with second and third gear slipping. If you catch the problem early enough, you might get lucky by only having to replace the valve body and reprogram the computer. If the problem is left unaddressed, not only will you have to replace the valve body, you will also have to replace the entire transmission. There have been so many complaints about the VW version of this transmission that VW has taken the highly unusual step of extending the valve body warranty on these transmissions to 100,000 miles.

http://imageshack.com/a/img198/5256/hs2z.jpg

There have been many problems with the valve body reported
Source: forums.speedarena.com
Symptom: Transmission is not going into certain gears. Problem: The 6HP19 is a fully electronic transmission. It has a total of seven electrical solenoids. That’s a lot of solenoids! These solenoids are susceptible to failure. To be honest, this is a common problem with almost all electrical transmissions.

The solenoids can be damaged from a voltage spike, high transmission temperatures, vibration or poor connections. The solenoids found in this transmission are nothing more than fancy electrical/mechanical magnets that are used to move valves in the valve body via a plunger and a spring. The solenoids consist of a coil of fine wire that when energized with 12 volts, creates a magnetic field. This magnetic field moves the plunger, which moves the valve in the valve body. A spring is used to return the plunger/valve combination back to its original location once the current is cut off to the solenoid.

http://imageshack.com/a/img853/7464/273i.jpg


There are seven solenoids in the 6HP19 transmission!
Source: europeantransmissions.com
It is within the coil of wire that the solenoid suffers the most problems. The wire can break or internally short out. A quick test with a hand held ohm meter will let you know if the solenoid is working correctly.

Whether your transmission ends with a bang as loud as a t-shirt cannon or a whimper, like a lost kitten, it all means one thing: it’s going to be costly. If for some reason your 6HP19 fails, consider replacing it with a re-manufactured transmission over one that was simply rebuilt. A re-manufactured transmission will include alterations and upgrades to the transmission designed to fix common failure points, make the transmission more durable and last longer. A rebuilt transmission will not include these.

A re-manufactured transmission will also include a much better warranty: three years compared to an average 90 days for a rebuilt transmission. There is a reason for the big difference in warranties. The company that re-manufactures transmissions believes so strongly in their workmanship and quality of the parts used that they are almost positive you will never need to use their very generous warranty. The companies that rebuild transmissions, on the other hand, obviously don’t feel the same way.



- See more at: http://etereman.com/blog/luxury-transmission/here-are-two-problems-common-found-with-the-6hp19-transmission#sthash.PTSAgZhd.dpuf


glad you fixed the problem, im just gonna leave this for the next dude that has some issues like me....i have the same car, but now i wonder if i have the ZF6hp19 or the ZF6hp19A version....

[Scotty@Advanced]

A few corrections need to be made.
The 6hp19A was used in the following cars:
D3 A8
C6 A6
B6/B7 A4/S4
VW Phaeton

[Bazer]

@QuattroS.Africa where did you get the replacement parts from?

Might need to go the same route....