Need a Lug Bolt Recommendation - Avant Garde Wheels

[jkc1985]

What lug bolts are you guys running on your Avant Garde Wheels? This is my first set of wheels on a german car…so not very familiar with lug bolts.

I will be running 19x9.5 ET40 Avant Garde M510's.

Thanks!

[drob23]

I just ordered the in-house bolts from ECS, ran about $55 for 20 bolts. I don't have AG's, but they should require cone seat lugs (not ball seat), pretty much all aftermarket wheels require these bolts. Factory length is 28mm, which is what I got for my wheels. If you're really paranoid, get something like 30mm or 32mm. I think rule of thumb is there should be 6 full turns of thread engagement. Torque to 90 ft-lb and redo after driving 100 miles. I recommend cleaning the hub surface and putting a little anti-seize (very little amount) to make switching wheels rust free.

[Mops@Nemesis]

I just ordered the in-house bolts from ECS, ran about $55 for 20 bolts. I don't have AG's, but they should require cone seat lugs (not ball seat), pretty much all aftermarket wheels require these bolts. Factory length is 28mm, which is what I got for my wheels. If you're really paranoid, get something like 30mm or 32mm. I think rule of thumb is there should be 6 full turns of thread engagement. Torque to 90 ft-lb and redo after driving 100 miles. I recommend cleaning the hub surface and putting a little anti-seize (very little amount) to make switching wheels rust free.

All correct [up] Only unsure about bolt lenght. The AG mouting pad may the thicker than the oem one, requiring longer bolts. I had to bump up 3-4mm's on my current set, just to compensate.

[drob23]

All correct [up] Only unsure about bolt lenght. The AG mouting pad may the thicker than the oem one, requiring longer bolts. I had to bump up 3-4mm's on my current set, just to compensate.

Good point, how did you conclude you needed an extra 4mm? Just measure the OEM distance the bolt extends from the wheels mounting face? And then compare with new wheels + known cone seat lug? I didn't have any cone seats to compare with, so just went with 28mm, hopefully that's long enough...seemed to get plenty of thread engagement [:/]

[jkc1985]

dang, I am a bit weary about this haha….I am use to lug nuts, not bolts. Don't want my wheels falling off haha

[Mops@Nemesis]

Good point, how did you conclude you needed an extra 4mm? Just measure the OEM distance the bolt extends from the wheels mounting face? And then compare with new wheels + known cone seat lug? I didn't have any cone seats to compare with, so just went with 28mm, hopefully that's long enough...seemed to get plenty of thread engagement [:/]

I only got ~4.5 turns[:p] I also had some custom spacers made, and just was not thinking correctly when I spec'd the bolts. Yea, measure the bolt seat to face of mount pad on each, or use the bolts and see how much poke you get compared back to oem. Either way, that is not something you should have to fool with. The vendor should know the length you need for the wheels they are selling you. So you have yours installed? How many turns? I have 7 full rotations now.

[Mops@Nemesis]

dang, I am a bit weary about this haha….I am use to lug nuts, not bolts. Don't want my wheels falling off haha

Just get some 32's and not worry. As I said, AG/vendor should supply proper bolts or at least provide the length of bolts needed.

[drob23]

I only got ~4.5 turns[:p] I also had some custom spacers made, and just was not thinking correctly when I spec'd the bolts. Yea, measure the bolt seat to face of mount pad on each, or use the bolts and see how much poke you get compared back to oem. Either way, that is not something you should have to fool with. The vendor should know the length you need for the wheels they are selling you. So you have yours installed? How many turns? I have 7 full rotations now.

Yup drove them to work for the first time today. Vendor I had was pretty bad and I originally assumed I'd reuse the bolts from my other crap winter tires, which turned out to be ball seat. Contacted vendor again and they said factory length would work, so I sourced them myself. I'll take off one bolt and see how many turns it takes, but it seemed like plenty...lol...some pro I am!

[Mops@Nemesis]

Yup drove them to work for the first time today. Vendor I had was pretty bad and I originally assumed I'd reuse the bolts from my other crap winter tires, which turned out to be ball seat. Contacted vendor again and they said factory length would work, so I sourced them myself. I'll take off one bolt and see how many turns it takes, but it seemed like plenty...lol...some pro I am!

What wheel are you running? Ha! Plenty does not mean your wheels will not fall off;) Yep, mark the socket in some way, and see what you get. For a 14x1.5, I'd want 7 turns.

[drob23]

Forgestar CF5V, I'll check it out tonight, thanks for the advice.

[Mops@Nemesis]

Forgestar CF5V, I'll check it out tonight, thanks for the advice.

That's right, I remember you now:/. Glad you finally got them. Pretty sure you are fine with those. Still have a look. Sure thing.


Mops on the move

[drob23]

Ok, 7+ full turns, whew...

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[aka5]

Stock bolts don't work with AG wheels?

[Mops@Nemesis]

Good deal.


Stock bolts don't work with AG wheels?

No. Oem bolts are ball seat. AG and most aftermarket require cone seat bolts.


Mops on the move

[mmmkam]

Stock bolts don't work with AG wheels?

Stock bolts wont work as the AG wheels need conical bolts. I ordered the RAD brand bolts and locks everyone seems to recommend for aftermarket wheels needing conical bolts. The right ones are below for use without spacers. If you are using spacers you will need to add their length to the below sizes:

RAD Lug Bolt 14mmx1.5, 28mm Shank, Cone Seat, 17mm Hex Model#20-4240-C
RAD Wheel Lock Bolt 14mmx1.5, 29mm Shank, Cone Seat Model#22-2242-C

[aka5]

Stock bolts wont work as the AG wheels need conical bolts. I ordered the RAD brand bolts and locks everyone seems to recommend for aftermarket wheels needing conical bolts. The right ones are below for use without spacers. If you are using spacers you will need to add their length to the below sizes:

RAD Lug Bolt 14mmx1.5, 28mm Shank, Cone Seat, 17mm Hex Model#20-4240-C
RAD Wheel Lock Bolt 14mmx1.5, 29mm Shank, Cone Seat Model#22-2242-C

Can you link me to these?

Thanks!

[aka5]

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_S4-Quattro-3.0T/Search/SiteSearch/Conical_Bolts/ES2130057/

These work?
Thanks

[Mops@Nemesis]

Yes, but not 100% that length is good. I'm sure another AG owner will chime in. Consider if you may run a spacer at some point as well. Would not hurt to go 32mm.

@bknewtype


Mops on the move

[mmmkam]

Both of the following should have them...

purems.com
otisincla.com

[typer100]

Hummm I had M310 on my A4 an never notice that. Went with OEM bolt and never looked back.

I will tell the guy who bought my car...

[aka5]

Great! We don't have any tpms seniors right? Just use standard rubber stems for the new wheels?

[bknewtype]

Stock bolt length is 27mm so get cone 27mm


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[jkc1985]

is anyone else with AG wheels running 30-32mm bolt lengths?

[chrissswww]

Oh shit, I'm using oem bolts. Just ordered conical bolts....

[Mops@Nemesis]

Wow, nice job vendors... Lulz. Not really.


Mops on the move

[bknewtype]

is anyone else with AG wheels running 30-32mm bolt lengths?

3mm wont make much of a difference so u will b fine running 30mm


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[Mops@Nemesis]

3mm wont make much of a difference so u will b fine running 30mm


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I've run 33mm with no spacer.


Mops on the move

[bknewtype]

I've run 33mm with no spacer.


Mops on the move

Yea u will b fine but if stock is 27 and they have 30 and 33 i would take 30 just cause its closer in spec with stocks lol

Thats just me doe


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[Mops@Nemesis]

Yea u will b fine but if stock is 27 and they have 30 and 33 i would take 30 just cause its closer in spec with stocks lol

Thats just me doe


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Oh I agree 100%. Just saying I used bolts proper for 5mm spacers, without the spacer at one point. Just saying there is room on the B8 cars.


Mops on the move

[dizzlesizzle]

These are the ones i used on my AG 310s.

http://otisincla.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=116_224_225&product_id=1007

[bknewtype]

Maybe im missing something but shouldnt the vendors be providing the bolts as well? Unless u guys r buying them used


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[Mops@Nemesis]

These are the ones i used on my AG 310s.

http://otisincla.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=116_224_225&product_id=1007

But 14mm, not 12mm[o_o]

[dizzlesizzle]

But 14mm, not 12mm[o_o]

yeah my bad wrong link, guess they don't sell the 30mm in the 14's just the 28mm which is still OK since OEM is I think 27mm
http://otisincla.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=116_224_225_227&product_id=1036

[handruin]

3mm wont make much of a difference so u will b fine running 30mm


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Losing 3mm is two turns on the lug bolt out of the recommend 7 which is fairly high percentage. I would say that's significant enough to not overlook. The 14mmx1.5 lug bolt means each turn is 1.5mm in depth into the hub.

[audibmi]

you do not want too long of a bolt, or risk damaging the hubs. best to spin the wheel to check for clearance while car is still lifted off the ground.

iirc, rule of thumb is 6 turns. stock bolt length is 28mm. this is a case where longer is not necessarily better.

there was a change on the facelift 2013 b8.5's which resulted in less tolerance for longer than stock length bolts before making contact with the hub. if you remember this thread, hub damage resulted due to bolts being to long.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/525999-Black-Forest-Industries-(BFI)-Sucks?p=8444235&viewfull=1#post8444235

[Mops@Nemesis]

Yes, always spin before you ground the car. Good info, regarding the .5's.

[jkc1985]

you do not want too long of a bolt, or risk damaging the hubs. best to spin the wheel to check for clearance while car is still lifted off the ground.

iirc, rule of thumb is 6 turns. stock bolt length is 28mm. this is a case where longer is not necessarily better.

there was a change on the facelift 2013 b8.5's which resulted in less tolerance for longer than stock length bolts before making contact with the hub. if you remember this thread, hub damage resulted due to bolts being to long.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/525999-Black-Forest-Industries-(BFI)-Sucks?p=8444235&viewfull=1#post8444235


When you guys say "Spins"…do you mean as soon as you get the wheel up, and the lug bolt into hole, it should only take 6 spins to make them tight? This seems so little?

[Mops@Nemesis]

When you guys say "Spins"…do you mean as soon as you get the wheel up, and the lug bolt into hole, it should only take 6 spins to make them tight? This seems so little?

Spin the wheel once mounted to be sure it moves freely.


Mops on the move

[drob23]

you do not want too long of a bolt, or risk damaging the hubs. best to spin the wheel to check for clearance while car is still lifted off the ground.

iirc, rule of thumb is 6 turns. stock bolt length is 28mm. this is a case where longer is not necessarily better.

there was a change on the facelift 2013 b8.5's which resulted in less tolerance for longer than stock length bolts before making contact with the hub. if you remember this thread, hub damage resulted due to bolts being to long.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/525999-Black-Forest-Industries-(BFI)-Sucks?p=8444235&viewfull=1#post8444235

Damn, that thread is a really important read for anyone DIY'ing this stuff. It's impossible to expect the vendors to know every nuance of our cars, the real problem is that often they will pretend to in order to make a sale, and some of us (me included) don't do enough research.

This site *really* needs a wiki, there is so much good information on this forum, but more often than not, it's hard to find it with the crappy search tool.

[EasternLI]

Bringing this back from the dead but does anyone know if the set of aftermarket lugs that Modbargains sold me with my forgestar wheels will work with the new set of avant garde 590's I picked up ? I'm almost sure their cone seat but not sure how long they are and if the AG require something longer then the FS's, thanks for any help

[drob23]

Bringing this back from the dead but does anyone know if the set of aftermarket lugs that Modbargains sold me with my forgestar wheels will work with the new set of avant garde 590's I picked up ? I'm almost sure their cone seat but not sure how long they are and if the AG require something longer then the FS's, thanks for any help

In general, you should be fine, but here's what you need to check:

1) Do you have enough turns of engagement, rule of thumb is 6 turns.
2) Can the wheel spin freely. If you can, change the front wheel first and possibly get the front axle in the air (jackstands), then verify that the wheel spins freely. If you try out the new wheels, and there is some sense that you are stuck, DO NOT continue to move.

Anecdotally...these lug bolts are a real PITA, I wonder why these German's go with these over lug nuts. It just looks better?

[achilleas101]

i'll add for anyone looking at this thread and wondering about their AG wheels order (and haven't gotten them yet) - my AGs came with bolts. So like someone else had mentioned, i don't understand why people were looking for a separate set. Doesn't answer Eastern's question, but hopefully helps others looking in this thread.

[mmmkam]

The following is what I am using on my 590's. You can check the specs against your existing set...

RAD Lug Bolt 14mmx1.5, 28mm Shank, Cone Seat, 17mm Hex Model#20-4240-C

[EasternLI]

i'll add for anyone looking at this thread and wondering about their AG wheels order (and haven't gotten them yet) - my AGs came with bolts. So like someone else had mentioned, i don't understand why people were looking for a separate set. Doesn't answer Eastern's question, but hopefully helps others looking in this thread.

Bought these second hand and the seller kept the bolts for his new set of wheels

[EasternLI]

In general, you should be fine, but here's what you need to check:

1) Do you have enough turns of engagement, rule of thumb is 6 turns.
2) Can the wheel spin freely. If you can, change the front wheel first and possibly get the front axle in the air (jackstands), then verify that the wheel spins freely. If you try out the new wheels, and there is some sense that you are stuck, DO NOT continue to move.

Anecdotally...these lug bolts are a real PITA, I wonder why these German's go with these over lug nuts. It just looks better?

Thanks for the reply, I have my local dealer putting them on so they should be able to tell me if they think their safe or not

[milk242]

I can guarantee 32mm won't work with a 2014 S4 with M590s. My wheels would not spin.

[evil_O]

I just ordered the in-house bolts from ECS, ran about $55 for 20 bolts.

Quality bolts. To me, they seem better than OEM.. buuut they were brand new out of the package so...


I think rule of thumb is there should be 6 full turns of thread engagement. Torque to 90 ft-lb and redo after driving 100 miles. I recommend cleaning the hub surface and putting a little anti-seize (very little amount) to make switching wheels rust free.

I also put a little anti-seize on the bolts.

I just put on ECS Wheel spacers. According to their website:

Always test fit spacers and bolts to make sure they fully seat before completing the install. Wheel bolts should have 7.5 full threaded turns into the wheels hub.

[chuthis]

Bumping this thread back up to ask a quick question...


Has anybody had any experience with a "tuner style" lug bolt? They don't seem too popular when searching, but I like the idea of using a key to remove the bolt to prevent possible scratching of the lug hole portion of the wheel. Thoughts?

A picture for reference for those unfamiliar...

http://otisincla.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=117_76&product_id=1525
http://otisincla.com/image/cache/data/bimecc_images/tuner_lug_bolts_m14x1_5_cone_seat_20mm_od-500x350.jpg

[SteveYem]

Bumping this thread back up to ask a quick question...


Has anybody had any experience with a "tuner style" lug bolt? They don't seem too popular when searching, but I like the idea of using a key to remove the bolt to prevent possible scratching of the lug hole portion of the wheel. Thoughts?

A picture for reference for those unfamiliar...

http://otisincla.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=117_76&product_id=1525
http://otisincla.com/image/cache/data/bimecc_images/tuner_lug_bolts_m14x1_5_cone_seat_20mm_od-500x350.jpg

I have no experience with one of those, but I don't see why it would cause a problem other than aesthetics i.e. chrome plating chipping off leading to visibly rusty areas, end of the socket may protrude beyond the end of the lug hole in the wheel, etc. I don't see a technical reason that it wouldn't work.

[chuthis]

I have no experience with one of those, but I don't see why it would cause a problem other than aesthetics i.e. chrome plating chipping off leading to visibly rusty areas, end of the socket may protrude beyond the end of the lug hole in the wheel, etc. I don't see a technical reason that it wouldn't work.

Thanks for the input. The total length of the bolt compared to the total length of a standard wheel bolt of the same size is another concern I have. I assume the total length of these are a tad longer than a standard bolt, but I'm not sure by how much (too lazy to pull a bolt off the car and measure it). Oh well... hopefully they won't look too odd w/ any added protrustion, haha.

[MANNYS4]

Can I use stick bolts temporarly
They didn't ship my bolts for the avante garde

[Mike@PureMS]

Using stock bolts on AG wheels runs the risk of damaging the seats. AG wheels use a conical seat, not ball seat. The ball seats can damage the surface and potentially loosen over time. Use proper bolts.

14mm Conical Seat Bolts (http://www.purems.com/Products/WHEELBOLT1450CWheel-Bolts)

[MANNYS4]

hey thanks but my bolts will arrive in a couple of days .
You think its safe to drive for a few days?

[FL C6 Avant]

no.

[ThorMjolnir]

Resurrection! I have a 2013 S4 and need some help!

Who is running AG M580 wheels and what bolts are you using?

I'm trying to find decent looking bolts that don't cost $10 each. Preferably in black.

Thanks!

[vrmm]

I'm gonna bump this from ages ago and say I sold my car with AG m310's with 10mm spacers and conical(cone) on it. Well jump forward 3 years and I bought the car back, only without the front spacers and stock ball lugs. Till this thread I hadn't thought about it (currently looking at 40mm conical to put spacers back on) and I can say that visually utilizing ball on cone seat caused no damage. The ball portion would at worst cause a pressure point on the seat that with my limited knowledge would just press thus harden the aluminum for a very small portion of the entire seat. Worst case scenario, once switched to correct conical, it would still have a ton of 'undepressed' area for it to seat properly. I can't even feel a groove from where the ball sat where conical was supposed to be. So, in my opinion, and my wheels experience using balls seat "for a few days" is perfectly fine. There so many cars out there that people by aftermarket rims for and have no idea that there is even one or the other and there is no urgent new casts urging car owners to check. Most tire shops I've been to are not the smartest in the fact that they will argue with me that my m310's need ball not conical and wouldn't remount them (fact that spacers were on cause an issue in itself). But it's surprising they even pay attention and notice whether they're wrong or not...