IE vs Pauter rods

[aysix]

Seems as if the integrated engineering rods have been the most recent choice lately from what I can see.

With a bit of research, i have found that the Pauter rods are a bit more "quality".

$900 IE's: http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-154-x-21mm-forged-rods-audi-6-cylinder-12v-30v.html

$1300 Pauter: http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-components-27t-pauter-rod-set-audi-v6-p-18630.html

[confused]

What justifies the extra $400 for the pauter?

[richmonds4]

Made in usa !!!

[sean01S4]

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/Integrated_Engineering_154_x_21mm_Forged_Rods_Audi _6_CYLINDER_12V_30V-56-118.html

809$ ie rods

[RudeJude518]

I'm interested in hearing the differences and which rods people think are better.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

wow IE is charging $900 now for China rods!!

[happy2B5]

Rosten, rpm are a couple other choices to research.

I'll take Pauter for $400 more please

[aysix]

wow IE is charging $900 now for China rods!!

Wait, what? Rebranded Chinese rods? Sounds like you have a source for cheaper.

[happy2B5]

Wait, what? Rebranded Chinese rods? Sounds like you have a source for cheaper.

Or just pointing out they are Chinese? Or was that common knowledge? Not bashing, just curious. I mean is there a reported high failure rate with ie rods? If not then why not save the $400? I am interested too as this may be in my future as well. But if there is a clear better proven track record for other maybe more expensive options then I will spend the few hundred more.

[A62TURBO]

IE rods are made in china?

[Scotty@Advanced]

IE rods are made in china?

From what I understand IE rod blanks are sourced from China and finished in the USA.

[S4 00 2.7]

IE rods can do the job just fine. Save the extra cash for something else.

[ravensB5S4]

If you are going to take the time to put rods in why not put the best you can get :s.

[bigern45]

well doesnt pauter help with less weight on the rotating assembly? im not sure.. that may be something to think about as well, especially if going lightweight pistons and what not..

every little bit helps..

[aysix]

If you are going to take the time to put rods in why not put the best you can get :s.

Orly? Hm, wonder why I made this thread [:/]

whats the best I can get?

[haggard69er]

Pauter rods: lighter, Ibeam, can support 1000hp
IE rods: heavier than pauter and stock rods, h-beam, can support around 700-800hp

[rockcandy]

Pauter rods: lighter, Ibeam, can support 1000hp
IE rods: heavier than pauter and stock rods, h-beam, can support around 700-800hp

Data to support this?

[arotished]

For me the choice were simple, pauter all the way!

Or if you have deep pocket and feel alittle dirty, carrillo rods :)

[Audi_S4]

Pauter rods: lighter, Ibeam, can support 1000hp
IE rods: heavier than pauter and stock rods, h-beam, can support around 700-800hp

My buddie just measured his and his IE's are lighter then stock

[arotished]

These are the weight I found when I was looking for rods 2 years ago.

-Stock 2.7T rod/no rod bolt: 529 grams
-Pauter standard 2.7L rod/no rod bolts: 530 grams (3.0L version is shorter so they are lighter)
-VAST standard 2.7L H-beam rods/no rod bolts: 515 grams
-VAST custom 3.0L stroker H-beam rod/no rod bolts: 479 grams
-Rosten Connection Rods/no rod bolt: 542 grams
-IE Connection Rods/no rod bolt: 555 grams
-Custom carrillo rods/no bolts: 440 grams
-RPM rods/no bolts - 523 grams

[arotished]

My buddie just measured his and his IE's are lighter then stock

JHM weighed these rod (IE) vs. stock and they about 12 grams heavier per rod. This weight can be easily counteracted with our lighter JE Pistons

[somedude]

does anyone make aluminum rods for the 2.7?

[Scotty@Advanced]

does anyone make aluminum rods for the 2.7?

You can probably get them made, but since aluminium rods have a defined life, they aren't good for street car unless you want to re rod the engine every so often.

If you want the absolute lightest rod.. Go for Titanium.. But plan on spending $1000 a rod.

[haggard69er]

The data is scattered all over the place. Pauters have been proven many times, as far as IE rods go, give them a call.

[itguy]

JK3-6063H http://www.racingpartsmaximum.com/importrod.html

[Cacti]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H-Beam-Audi-VW-RS4-V6-2-6L-2-7T-2-8L-Connecting-Rod-Rods-Conrod-Con-rod-bielle-/350588855249?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a0b963d1&vxp=mtr

Anyone tried these?

[MikeyB3]

IE rods can do the job just fine. Save the extra cash for something else.

Agreed. I have IE rods in my 770 car, not worried about them. At all.

[joeSfour]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H-Beam-Audi-VW-RS4-V6-2-6L-2-7T-2-8L-Connecting-Rod-Rods-Conrod-Con-rod-bielle-/350588855249?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a0b963d1&vxp=mtr

Anyone tried these?

You should try them out...No way I am exposing my motor to these.

[aysix]

You should try them out...No way I am exposing my motor to these.

Lmao, funny thing is the picture of those look like they have a hairline crack in them.

http://www.furiousracingparts.com/TPM/tpm/rod/cr-6pc(4).jpg

[GURUMAN]

I was running 034 Rods in previous 650 whp engine without issues ( arp 2000 bolts )

This time engine will revv a little higher, so I went IE rods with arp 625 bolts.



Since the S4 community is almost totally filled with E opinions, go search what the IE rod does in the 1.8T[az]

[s4andtls]

CUSTOM AGE 625 PLUS®: This newly formulated super-alloy demonstrates superior fatigue cycle life, tensile strength and toughness – with complete resistance to atmospheric corrosion and oxidation. ARP is the first to develop manufacturing and testing processes for fasteners with Custom Age 625+. Best of all it is less expensive and expected to soon replace MP-35 as the material of choice in the high strength, super-alloy field. Typical tensile strength is 260,000-280,000 psi.

[rtl5009]

Lmao, funny thing is the picture of those look like they have a hairline crack in them.

http://www.furiousracingparts.com/TPM/tpm/rod/cr-6pc(4).jpg

That hair line crack you are talking about is where the rod cap mates with the rod. The rod cap is removable so the bearing can be placed and the rod can be affixed to the crank.

No offense, but if you don't know that, stick with the IEs they are more than you will ever need.

[rtl5009]

JK3-6063H http://www.racingpartsmaximum.com/importrod.html

These are legit, however they do need the wrist pin hole honed. They are a little snug for a turbo charged application. Heat = donzies.

[ravensB5S4]

Some ppl have also had issues with the H-beams on 3.0L strokers and custom pistons. Mmm love shaving piston skirts.

[aysix]

That hair line crack you are talking about is where the rod cap mates with the rod. The rod cap is removable so the bearing can be placed and the rod can be affixed to the crank.

No offense, but if you don't know that, stick with the IEs they are more than you will ever need.
*

Why would you say that? That means I shouldn't get pauter rods because of what I said? Some of the local guys are saying to get the Pauter. I do know those caps come apart, just over looked it at that point...

Gonna get the IE's simply because I know they work & when i have an excuse to pull the motor again...their gonna go in.

[stew44]

^facepalm

[aysix]

^facepalm

if you have nothing to contribute to this thread, go elsewhere.

[jibberjive]

Data to support this?

2nd



Since the S4 community is almost totally filled with E opinions, go search what the IE rod does in the 1.8T[az]
Big 2nd.

[Ribbie]

*

Why would you say that? That means I shouldn't get pauter rods because of what I said? Some of the local guys are saying to get the Pauter. I do know those caps come apart, just over looked it at that point...

Gonna get the IE's simply because I know they work & when i have an excuse to pull the motor again...their gonna go in.

Ya maybe he was a little internet rude but lately it seems par for the course. To me that is wrong, andI have seen it happen to all platforms that have come down in price. It's really too bad.

The hairline crack is just that. The rod is cast as one piece to ensure the metal is of the same density of material, etc, etc. Then after machining the rod is opnened so you and I can insert bearings.

[Ribbie]

S4 community is almost totally filled with E opinions, go search what the IE rod does in the 1.8T[az]

This has been true and I think the sinking of this platform as a whole.

I know thread jacking. Sorry.

[ravensB5S4]

Yeah damn these people and their opinions, they are sinking the B5 S4 platform and the whole fucking world :(

[034Motorsport]

Pauter rods: lighter, Ibeam, can support 1000hp
IE rods: heavier than pauter and stock rods, h-beam, can support around 700-800hp

I caught this thread when searching on Google for something so I figured I would bump it, and just wanted to point out that we've pushed h-beam rods to well over 800hp. Try over 800whp.

The i-beam can be a more efficient design and can technically support some more horsepower, but it is not fair to claim an h-beam can only hold 700hp. I'm at 773 horsepower at the motor without even being fully tuned. 650whp is over 850 horsepower, and that's a non-issue for a proper h-beam rod.

Pauter makes a very good rod and you pay extra for lighter weight and a finer finish quality, but it is generally for those who just want the best or want to lighten their rotating assembly as much as possible. The lighter your assembly, the easier the car can rev and the less wear on bearings, etc. We run Pauter rods on our GTi-RS project car because we have pushed it to over 1000bhp.

But I run Integrated Engineering rods in my 2.7T, along with my 2.0L race motor I am building. They've proven over the years to be a solid and dependable rodset, especially for the money. You may be able to find other H-beam rodsets on the market, but a few things to consider;

#1, not all rodsets are the same just because they are both h-beam. Even if they came from the same original factory, the finish quality is what will likely determine a good rod from a bad one. Good quality control will catch issues and manufacturing flaws, it allows for weight matching, and having something finished in the USA is still a lot better than it coming straight off the boat.

#2, that money saved by going with an eBay company could likely be spent on your machine shop spending additional time to get the rods to fit. Why deal with that when you can get the IE rods and know they will fit?

#3, Support and testing. IE rods are in far greater use than generic h-beam rods in our application, and if you have an issue with your rod, do you want to talk to someone in China or someone who doesn't even know what kind of motor an S4 comes with? Buying rods from a reputable source guarantees you get the support you need and deserve.

[aysix]

Thank you max

[LL Tuning]

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/Integrated_Engineering_154_x_21mm_Forged_Rods_Audi _6_CYLINDER_12V_30V-56-118.html

809$ ie rods

tx for the link !!!

[itguy]

390$ for the same rods

http://racingpartsmaximum.com/importrod.html

[SKARGO]

If you want a Quality rod and Have the piece of mind that there made here in Murkica by Pauters. If you want to save money and just don't care buy the IE Rods. I have put China rods through hell without failure. Anything over the 800hp mark I send the extra money and get a set of Pauters

[Yesmar]

can someone in the know enlighten me on the edm holes and tell me if(or when)it’s worth consideration or a must have for our cars?
do our oem rods have them?
thanks.

[Scotty@Advanced]

can someone in the know enlighten me on the edm holes and tell me if(or when)it’s worth consideration or a must have for our cars?
do our oem rods have them?
thanks.

EDM holes provide full pressure lubrication to the wrist pin. Stock does not have them.

[haggard69er]

Let me clarify what I said earlier. In my opinion, if I was building an engine and my goal was above 800WHP, I would go with pauter rods.

[rtl5009]

EDM holes provide full pressure lubrication to the wrist pin. Stock does not have them.

I was thinking about this earlier, do EDM rods come with special rod bearings that have a hole in them to provide oil pressure to the other side of the bearing? The pressure side of the bearing (oil pressure from the crank) and the edm hole to deliver oil to the wrist pin are completely separated by the bearing its self......

[LL Tuning]

Apparently on these cars since they have very good oiling already with the piston squirters and stuff....

[sweets4style]

Piston squirters are not used for oiling the pin. It is used to cool the piston. They are not designed for increased lubrication. No design changes in the system are made because of this.

There are no bearings blocking the hole. The small end is a bushed end with no bearing. Meaning hole goes straight to pin. The big end has a bearing but there is a hole and it is lubricated continuously. Remember its under pressure. Not just sliding around in a once applied layer of oil.

[rtl5009]

Piston squirters are not used for oiling the pin. It is used to cool the piston. They are not designed for increased lubrication. No design changes in the system are made because of this.

There are no bearings blocking the hole. The small end is a bushed end with no bearing. Meaning hole goes straight to pin. The big end has a bearing but there is a hole and it is lubricated continuously. Remember its under pressure. Not just sliding around in a once applied layer of oil.

yes so the bearing has a hole machined in it as well.

It would be blocking the hole if it was not machined.

[LL Tuning]

Did somebody have picture of these ???

[sweets4style]

No the bearing sees no extra machining. I think you need to take a look at how an automotive oiling system works and then post up. What your sayings is horribly incorrect. If there was no hole in the bearing shell the motor would last about 3 minutes right? What if the oil came through the crank hole? Just rehtorical questions to get you to think about it correctly. Nevermind what rod choice you went with

[MadProfessor]

R P M will "rifle drill" there rods too if I remember correctly. Just send them an email.

[034Motorsport]

We do not recommend EDM drilling for the 2.7T.

Even on our GTi-RS we skipped it, and when customers request it, I generally talk them out of it. These motors have good oiling in this area already.

[rtl5009]

No the bearing sees no extra machining. I think you need to take a look at how an automotive oiling system works and then post up. What your sayings is horribly incorrect. If there was no hole in the bearing shell the motor would last about 3 minutes right? What if the oil came through the crank hole? Just rehtorical questions to get you to think about it correctly. Nevermind what rod choice you went with

The main bearings on the block side have holes in them to deliver oil thru the crank to the rod bearing journals and they last 200K + miles. So honestly, I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've built a APB from scratch before, I am well aware of how the oiling system functions. That is why I am curious about EDM of rods.

sweet4style, the real question is, do you know how the oiling system works?

Let me lay it out for you so you don't have to try and belittle me again.

Well do it in easy substitution terms:

A = Journal on crank for rod bearing
B1= Journal side of rod bearing
Bsolid=Bearing itself
B2= Rod side of rod bearing
C=Rod with edm hole in it.

There for it would lay would lay like so in the motor crank outward with / representing metal solid surfaces with no holes for pressure, well say the surface does not count as a solid until a infinitesimal amount into the solid:

A B1 /Bsolid/ B2 C

The oil journal for the Rod bear lubrication is on A, it is fed from the main journal pressure from the main oil valley. This pressure runs into Bsolid on the B1 surface. How do it make it to the B2 surface with any pressure into C with Bsolid in the way!?

[rtl5009]

http://techtonicstuning.com/main/images/104_050.jpg

Boom. simple google search netted me this gem.

Thanks sweets4style, all that rhetoric helped me out.