Up to date turbo comparison thread

[flynnr]

With the gaining popularity of comp turbos/ efr / hta / gtx / etc ive wanted to upgrade/update turbo's... is there any current info comparing these new models? If so, point me to some!


Here is some info I have came across, post up to add more / help me fill in these numbers and other specs too.

Garrett gt2560 = (apr stage 3)
gt2860rs = 35 lbs/min (apr stage 3+)
gt2871r = 45 lb/min (56 trim)
gt3071r = 48 lbs/min
gt3076r = 52 lbs/min
gt30r =

HTA 2868 = 47lbs/min
2871 = 51lbs/min
2873 =
3076 =

GTX ?

Comp 4247
4447
4947
5152
ct2-5356 = 53-55 lbs/min
5558
5860
6060
6262


BW EFR 6758 = 49lbs/min



if any of these are wrong let me know too

[audienthusiest]

out of curiosity whats the ko3...ko4.. or ko3s push... just to get an idea of comparison

[Seerlah]

To figure out the rough flow rate of a turbo, know the HP output rating and simply drop the 0 at the end. For example, the GT2860RS is good for roughly 360hp. So, equate that to roughly 36 lbs/min. So when you see a turbo with hp rating but not listing how much it flows, that is how you get the closest number without a compressor map. With that being known, rough guestimates:

Comp Turbo CT2 Billet (same housings as T3 GT28xx 4-bolt outlet)
4247= 33 lbs/min
4447= 37 lbs/min (I would give this the GT2860RS comparison)
4747= 43 lbs/min
4947= 47 lbs/min
5147= 53 lbs/min
5152= ?? lbs/min
5347= 54 lbs/min
5356= 50 lbs/min
5362= 52 lbs/min
5558= 54 lbs/min
5562= 57 lbs/min
5565= 59 lbs/min
5857= 58 lbs/min
6062= 65 lbs/min
6065= 66 lbs/min

Without compressor maps, these are the close estimates I got from HP ratings on Ringer Racing. They will differ slightly on an official compressor map.

[jaychen]

Noob question..

How does a 5347 outflow a 5356 if the latter turbo physically has a bigger turbine wheel?

[Bische]

(lbs x 10) x 0.9-1.1 is a very acceptable horsepower estimation range.

0.9 would be a less efficient use of flow(late timing, low CR, high pumping losses etc.), 1.1 would be a very efficient use of flow(timing=mbt, high CR, low pumping loss, using fuels containing oxygen).

[flynnr]

lol thanks guys - id like to get some solid numbers though. rough estimates are nice, but when the information is available somewhere, we might as well be looking at the correct numbers to compare

[EErie B6]

Mike H. Actually asked the question to Comp Turbo and they told him that the HP figures were a dead on 10:1 ratio. Example: 550hp = 55lbs.

Also Seerlah, the CT2 power levels differ a bit from the CT3s and others. You you might want to specify which series you are talking about and if it is the standard or billet variety.

[Seerlah]

Done

[Bische]

lol thanks guys - id like to get some solid numbers though. rough estimates are nice, but when the information is available somewhere, we might as well be looking at the correct numbers to compare

What do you mean? Im not 100% on this, but I dont think CT has flow tested their compressors(to get actual flow maps, very expensive), their lbs/min ratings are calculated based on the wheel diameters.

Just as a PTE6262 is rated at 670hp(67lbs/min?), but have been dynoed well over 700awhp.

[SleeperAvant]

Bump for flowrate of the comp turbo 5152.

[Operator]

EFR: 6258 Max Flow Rate: 44 lb/min
EFR: 6758 Max Flow Rate: 49 lb/min
EFR: 7064 Max Flow Rate: 56 lb/min
EFR: 7670 Max Flow Rate: 64 lb/min
EFR: 8374 Max Flow Rate: 79 lb/min


http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Garrett%20GTX3576R.html
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Precision%20vs%20Garrett%20vs%20Borg%20Warner.html

[A1 A2 German]

Don't forget about the SAT's [:D].

Ko4
Frankenturbo
GTRS
GT2871r eliminator

[nunya]

Dont forget about precision either.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

With the gaining popularity of comp turbos/ efr / hta / gtx / etc ive wanted to upgrade/update turbo's... is there any current info comparing these new models? If so, point me to some!


Here is some info I have came across, post up to add more / help me fill in these numbers and other specs too.

Garrett gt2560 = (apr stage 3)
gt2860rs = 35 lbs/min (apr stage 3+)
gt2871r = 45 lb/min (56 trim)
gt3071r = 48 lbs/min
gt3076r = 52 lbs/min
gt30r =

HTA 2868 = 47lbs/min
2871 = 51lbs/min
2873 =
3076 =



Looking at the flow rates of the HTA turbos, I can't help but think they're a little over rated. Comp turbo has a very similar compressor profile on their 5556 which has a 55mm inducer and 76mm exducer and they only rate them at 52 lb/min. So to me, either Comp is under rating their turbos or HTA is over rating theirs.

Mike, you're experienced w both brands, what have you seen in terms of real world results to verify these claims?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

One thing to note, I did a quick search and I can't really find any dyno graphs which show the HTA 2868 making much more than 400 WHP. Most seem to be in the 380 WHP range. With an advertised flow rate of 47 lb/min I would think that it would be easy to top 400 WHP and that you'd see regular dyno results in the 400+ WHP range with 430 WHP being in the upper ranges.

I'm going to guess that it's real world capabilities are closer to 42-43 lb/min. No slouch, but I think HTA is overselling things a little bit...

[A4Rob]

Holset info

-Hy35 57 lbs/min
-Hx35 60.85 lbs/min
-He351cw (Spools faster than the hx35, but makes the same power) flows approx 60.85 lbs/min
-Hx40 70.10 lbs/min
-Hx50/52 99.20 lbs/min
-Hx60 125.66 lbs/min
-Hx82 198.42 lbs/min

[melomandn]

Holset info

-Hy35 57 lbs/min
-Hx35 60.85 lbs/min
-He351cw (Spools faster than the hx35, but makes the same power) flows approx 60.85 lbs/min
-Hx40 70.10 lbs/min
-Hx50/52 99.20 lbs/min
-Hx60 125.66 lbs/min
-Hx82 198.42 lbs/min

I didn't realize the hy35 flowed that much, good info

[melomandn]

Double post

[Operator]

Anyone have the GTX numbers yet?

[zandrew]

I am not a fan of the GTX. The flow increases but so does the lag. Its not like your getting a better version of whatever turbo you have. It is more like you are getting a bigger turbo. I know it is not advertised but it would seem like a lot of people assume a GTX3071R spools the same as GT3071R but they don't.

Comp does not flow test and neither does precision. Turbonetics does or atleast they once did.

I am confused as to how a GT2871R 56 trim flows 3 lb min less then a GT3071R when it is the exact same compressor (and a lot of times the same comp housing). I know compressor housings effect these numbers like inlet and outlet diameter and also AR but what is funny is the GT3071R with a .50AR makes 48 lb min and the GT2871R with .60 AR does 45 lb min.

[Operator]

I'd like to see a comparasion between HTA's and GTX's.

[Saskwatch]

K16?

[kraylon]

Curious to know what the Franken turbo flow rate is
I havent figured out how to read a compressor map but i heard some where it was good for 220 hp

[zandrew]

The franken turbo is a good example of where flow rate can be misleading. They use the CX7 compressor in the model that is for the AEB which flows 31 lb min and it will make 240whp or so (this is maxxed out). When you look at a compressor map there is more to the map then what is shown. Sometimes there is more efficiency availible. I know when I was going through one of books Garret considered the turbo to be useful down to 50% adiabatic efficiency. If you look at the lines going left to right that have shaft speed on them you will notice that they turn down on the right. This indicates that the airspeed is approaching its limits (which is the speed of sound). They eventually get to a point where they go straight down. If the compressor map has shaft speed lines that are fairly flat there is still some usable map left and this is why some people have made more hp than what the map offers.

Your turbine also needs to be handle the flow as well or you will just create pumping loss. Its a balancing act between the 2.

[Operator]

GTX2867 51 lb/min
GTX35R 71.5 lb/min

[zandrew]

Something members need to be aware of when looking at this list and flow rates is that there are several different models of these turbos. The GT3076R for example has 3 different trim sizes on the compressor. The GT2871R does so as well. The GT2860R also has 3 different trims.

I find it a bit funny that no one has mentioned that the Garrett GT series actually is very similiar to their old T series. The 71 series compressors is simply updates of the T04B compressors. The 76 is updates of the T04E. The 60 series is updates of the old standard T3 series. Some examples the GT2860RS uses a compressor almost identical to the old T3 super 60. The GT2560R uses T3 60 trim compressor. The GT3076R (56 trim model) uses a very similar sized 57 trim. I could go on and on but this should give people an idea of what I trying to point out.

[M-Hood]

Something members need to be aware of when looking at this list and flow rates is that there are several different models of these turbos. The GT3076R for example has 3 different trim sizes on the compressor. The GT2871R does so as well. The GT2860R also has 3 different trims.

I find it a bit funny that no one has mentioned that the Garrett GT series actually is very similiar to their old T series. The 71 series compressors is simply updates of the T04B compressors. The 76 is updates of the T04E. The 60 series is updates of the old standard T3 series. Some examples the GT2860RS uses a compressor almost identical to the old T3 super 60. The GT2560R uses T3 60 trim compressor. The GT3076R (56 trim model) uses a very similar sized 57 trim. I could go on and on but this should give people an idea of what I trying to point out.

People don't mention it because it is going to just confuse most people that don't know that much about the difference in turbos. lol

Yes there are multiple versions of the 2871r and 3076r, but most of them aren't what people use on the 1.8t. Hell many of the other 2871's are for the Nissan cars which is stated right on the Garrett web site for those models.

Just look at the parts number list for all of the 2871's that Garrett offers.


Applicable Garrett P/N's:
743347-5001S
743347-5002S
743347-5003S
743347-5004S
743347-5001
743347-5002
743347-5003
743347-5004
743347-1
743347-2
743347-3
743347-4

A normal person isn't going to have a clue which one they are going to need to run on their 1.8t, which is most likely why even ATP has a option of " Don't know / Don't care" when the customer can choose which part number they want to go with. lol

There are so many different part numbers for the same size turbo because some come with a low boost wg actuator and some come with a high boost wg actuator, also because there are 2 different size a/r exhaust housings to choose from.

On the Garrett web site www.turbobygarrett.com they have 4 listings for the 2871r. Out of those 1 has a 49.2mm inducer, 2 of them have a 51.2mm inducer, and the last has a 53.1mm inducer. Of those 4 two of them come with a Nissan T25 5 bolt exhaust housing and 2 come with the standard T25 5 bolt housing.

The Garrett stuff just ends up being updated versions of their older models. Just look at the GTX, it isn't like those are 100% new turbos and are just the old stuff with 1 updated part.

[zandrew]

I agree with you mike but my point was not too look at the flow rates for specific models and take it as gospel. Consider the smaller GT2871R 48 trim flows only 38 lb min and the larger 56 trim flows 45 lb min. What really is befuddling is the GT3071R 56 trim flows 50 lb min and it and the GT2871R 56 trim are the same compressors.

The flow rates listed here are only applicable to specific models.

When going from the T series to the GT series the turbine was major the change. Now the new GTX series uses billet upgraded compressors with GT series turbines. Garret has done this for years and why I genuinely feel Garrett does not compare to newer turbos like Borg Warner EFR.

[M-Hood]

I agree with you mike but my point was not too look at the flow rates for specific models and take it as gospel. Consider the smaller GT2871R 48 trim flows only 38 lb min and the larger 56 trim flows 45 lb min. What really is befuddling is the GT3071R 56 trim flows 50 lb min and it and the GT2871R 56 trim are the same compressors.

The flow rates listed here are only applicable to specific models.

When going from the T series to the GT series the turbine was major the change. Now the new GTX series uses billet upgraded compressors with GT series turbines. Garret has done this for years and why I genuinely feel Garrett does not compare to newer turbos like Borg Warner EFR.

Yeah that is because the exhaust wheel effects what % the compressor can flow of its max flow rate for its specs. This is why the 2871 with a 47mm exhaust wheel has a much lower flow rate vs the 3071 with the same exact compressor wheel but with a much larger exhaust wheel.


Don't you mean the GTX is a forged wheel since they aren't really billet? Only reason Garrett came out with the GTX line is because they were losing business to all of the companies offering turbos with new wheels.

[zandrew]

Yeah that is because the exhaust wheel effects what % the compressor can flow of its max flow rate for its specs. This is why the 2871 with a 47mm exhaust wheel has a much lower flow rate vs the 3071 with the same exact compressor wheel but with a much larger exhaust wheel.


Don't you mean the GTX is a forged wheel since they aren't really billet? Only reason Garrett came out with the GTX line is because they were losing business to all of the companies offering turbos with new wheels.

While that makes sense Mike that is not how they do it. When Garrett does flow testing with their compressors it combines only the compressor housing and the compressor itself. If you look at their GT compressor maps you will see all the details listed and furthermore they list their turbine maps seperate. Email Garrett if you like. Sometimes it takes a while for them to reply but this is exactly how it was described too me from them. If in fact they did as you ar offering then the turbine specs would also be listed such AR and trims and they are not.

Yes the GTX compressors are forged instead of Billet. I use the term Billet like most in reference to a compressor that is CNC machined instead of cast. You don't want t get me started on GTX compressors as they are total rip off and a complete waste of MONEY (my personal opinion).

Also if you really want to get into how many there is of each turbo there is far more then you specified and Garrett does not list every option on their site, only the most popular. For a GT2871R here is just tid bit of the options,

48, 52, 56 trim
T25 .48, .64, .86 (both with and without wastegate flapper)
T3 (or T31 4 bolt) .63, .82 and V band)
T3 5 bolt .36, .48, .63, .82
T3 cosworth
T25 plus (.63 and .82)
T25 external wastegate .72AR

Compressor options T3, T04E, T04B, T04S, Nissan style with bolt ons (2 bolt inlet and 3 bolt outlet), and even T04Z if I remember correct. SOme of these options are special order. You can also get a GT2554R compressor housing in the GT2871R and GT2560R.

The part numbers you are referring to specifically are ones that garrett lists since they are considered most popular options.

My point had nothing to do with any of this and frankly I find it nit picking a very simple point; The flow rates listed are not 100% since the trims for those tubo combinations are not listed. I have seen people buy T3T4 turbos and then wonder why they are maxxing out 250whp when others are making over 400whp and then they find out they are using 40 trim compressor.

My point was to those that looked at this and would draw the simplified expectation that ALL GT2871R flow 45 lb min or ALL GT3076R flow 52 lb min.

[M-Hood]

Shouldn't really say billet seeing there are plenty of cast products that get machined down in a CNC machine.

As for the 71mm 56 trim comparison, the flow maps on the Garrett web site show it to be closer to 46 lb/min vs 48 lb/min. The difference could just be caused the housing itself.

2871r 56 trim
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/sites/default/files/default_images/turbogroup/performance_maps/743347-1&2comp.jpg

3071 56 trim
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/sites/default/files/default_images/turbogroup/performance_maps/700382-3&20comp.jpg


Garrett even rates them at nearly the same hp, the 2871r with 53.9mm turbine at 280-475hp, the 3071r with 56.5mm turbine at 280-480hp and the 3071r with 60mm turbine at 300-460hp.


Most of the A4 1.8t owners on this forum know there are different versions of the 2871r and 3076r, it might not be mentioned on this thread but it has been talked about plenty of times on this forum. You are new here so of course you most likely just don't know that. Have to understand this isn't a new forum, it is a good 10+ years old now and it isn't like the 1.8t members here have been running nothing but a K03 up to this point. lol

[zandrew]

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/3071_zpse8552cbc.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/3071_zpse8552cbc.jpg.html)

That is really interesting that Garrett rates their largest turbine at a lower max hp then their smaller 2 configurations. Also if you look closely at the 2 maps you posted they are the same.

I am also interested in the Cast CNC finished compressors since there is no advantage what so ever in that combination. Using Billet compressors like Comp, Precision, etc do allows them to upgrade setups they already have without adding in greater costs. Over a small run of say 50 compressors it is cheaper to CNC them then have all the molds and what not made for a set of Cast. Cast compressors are better when you are making extreme quanity from a financial standpoint. There is machining done to a cast compressor but not much. Mostly the super back and through hub.

Most of the A4 1.8t owners on this forum know there are different versions of the 2871r and 3076r, it might not be mentioned on this thread but it has been talked about plenty of times on this forum. You are new here so of course you most likely just don't know that. Have to understand this isn't a new forum, it is a good 10+ years old now and it isn't like the 1.8t members here have been running nothing but a K03 up to this point. lol

So what is exactly is the point of this thread then? Odd that the person started it had a member # 70,000 lower then mine....

[M-Hood]

How are the 2 maps the same? They are close but not exactly the same, but what then what do you want seeing they are using the same compressor wheel.

The reason of it was because he was making a list of turbos from the different manufactures not just a list of ones from Garrett, since he was trying to figure out what to get next when something went thru his turbo and damaged his compressor wheel. I thought that was pretty clear seeing he has a list of turbos from Garrett, HTA, Comp Turbo and BW (EFR), well I guess it was clear to me and others. lol

BTW Ryan ended up just having it serviced and upgraded with a HTA71 wheel and is making more power now then he did with his standard GT2871r.

[flynnr]

Mike is right. Just looking at some of the turbos that are decent upgrades for most 1.8t users. I am not 100% about HP by any means.... I would gladly give up some HP's to gain low end torque. The turbo that I felt fit me the best at the time and for the money / my situation was hands down the HTA71r.

The HTA71r is a phenomenal turbo. It spools up damn quick, and holds strong boost to 8krpm. I can not see myself needing a bigger turbo ever... if I want more power, I will simply up the boost to 30-35psi and gain probably another 50hp :) I can't imagine my car with that much power though...

I am going on a road trip this week out to Yellowstone / Grand Teton / Needles Highway / etc with a Stg2 TTRS, modded 300zx, e46M3, e36M3, and myself, so I will be posting videos of me doing pulls against all of them most likely.

[zandrew]

If you look at the topic and the first post it would appear the thread is about current turbo offerings and their specific flow rate. Even after reading the other posts I would still assume that is the point of it and feel that the majority of other members would draw the same conclusion. My point of emphasis is that there is significant difference between GT2871R and other GT models that share the same designation. I would think that this clarification has specific value to the newer members and not the older ones. Still if the significance of the substantial difference amongst turbos with different trim and same designation is of no value to this thread then where is the value of mentioning flow rates at all. This is what my posts are in reference too specifically as older more savvy members would not use this thread except to shine a light on newer members.

Mike- Compare the actual compressor speeds and also note that Garrett does not show the entire Map as I posted. There are actually two different part numbers for a GT2871R and GT3071R compressor for the 56 trims. I am pretty sure the difference has more to do with hub length then anything else since the stub shaft for a GT28 turbine is shorter then the one on the GT30. Oh and oddly Garrett lists several of their GTX compressors as Forged and Billet and some others they just state forged and fully machined.

Flynnr- How does the HTA71R compare specifically to your older GT2871R? I am like a woman with shoes and can not seem to make my mind up 100% on which one I want. I also noticed your 8500 redline notation; are you using stock hydro lifters or have you upgraded? Are you using cams?

[flynnr]

I have an AEB head with high rate valve springs/Ti retainers, 5 angle valve job. I have had zero issues shifting at 8krpm or higher. 8500 is an estimate but my head is the very least of my worries. I rarely shift even at 8k. Usually when running throughthe gears I am shifting at 7500ish. Idk why, just easier to shift at lower rpm than higher.

[flynnr]

Stock camz. Got engaged and bought a house in the last 6 months = not many go fast parts being installed as my priorities have shifted to paying for a wedding / honeymoon.

[Operator]

I am going on a road trip this week out to Yellowstone / Grand Teton / Needles Highway / etc with a Stg2 TTRS, modded 300zx, e46M3, e36M3, and myself, so I will be posting videos of me doing pulls against all of them most likely.

You're heading out about a month too early!!!! http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/492410-North-America-gathering-at-Yellowstone-EPIC-road-trip-2013


As for this thread, I see it as a loose reference. I wouldn't figure someone would look at this page, and only this page, and then go out and select a turbo based off a single thread. But for the most part, this thread supplies a decent amount of info to get people started. From there they need to get all the information possible from various sources before they make their purchase.

[flynnr]

You're heading out about a month too early!!!! http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/492410-North-America-gathering-at-Yellowstone-EPIC-road-trip-2013


As for this thread, I see it as a loose reference. I wouldn't figure someone would look at this page, and only this page, and then go out and select a turbo based off a single thread. But for the most part, this thread supplies a decent amount of info to get people started. From there they need to get all the information possible from various sources before they make their purchase.

Lol I know... Going to the exact same places as well. 100% a coincidence too as the person planning the trip has never been on audizine

[M-Hood]

Stock camz. Got engaged and bought a house in the last 6 months = not many go fast parts being installed as my priorities have shifted to paying for a wedding / honeymoon.

Stock cams are most likely why you tend to shift by 7500 since you are most likely feeling the power drop after that point, a aftermarket cam will allow more air up in the higher rpms.

[wpfahl]

So much data


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