ECU Swapping and IMMO Defeat/Clone, Need some advice

[DNasty777]

Alright guys here's the deal, I'm trying to find out if Staz's ECU will work in my car (as an upgrade to APR Stg 2+). Mine is an '03 and Staz's is an '04. From all the reading I've done I've gathered that the '03s are "updated" at the dealer to the '04 "AF" file. This is making me think it is do-able, but everywhere else it's saying years and part #'s are not interchangeable. Sounds mostly like hear-say as there are some examples of people running '03 boxes in '02s and other combos. Frankly, I'm pretty sure this will be do-able, but there is another problem.

The other obstacle in the way is the immobilizer. In order to get this ECU to work in my car (assuming years are interchangeable, as above) I'd have to have my immo cloned onto Staz's ECU (or Staz's immo defeated?). The problem is that I'd have to go to my local dealer and have them perform this (seriously, screw you audi for not providing the PIN/SKC anymore). I called the dealer and they said they could do it for a measily $160 [eek][rolleyes], I then asked if they could swap them without updating the ECU software and the guy said they update all ECUs in for service, which will overwrite/delete the aftermarket software. No go there.

I then called Stratmosphere to see if they could do it and they said they couldn't, not being able to obtain the PIN/SKC from audi, etc and only the dealer can.

Is there any way to make this work? Hound AoA for PIN/SKC so I can do it myself? Ask dealer specifically to NOT update the ECU when swapping? Maybe APR will reflash after the dealer updates the ECU if I supply some sort of proof of purchase (a receipt from Staz)?

[Matt Devo]

short answer:

- ECUs are interchangeable as-is (all 03-05 with AF/AK part), no need to update; only 02s with -F part can not be used interchangeably
- no need to clone or defeat immo on either ECU (see below)
- use generic OBD-II usb cable (not genuine ross-tech cable) and VAG K+CAN Commander software to read 4-digit pins from both ECUs
- use VCDS to adapt the ECUs to the immo in the clusters in the "new" cars, using instructions on ross-tech's site for ECU adaptation

I've done this several times swapping ECUs and clusters, it's pretty easy

[DNasty777]

Ross-tech's site states that you need the 7 digit SKC (which audi no longer gives out) in order to do the swap. How are you getting around this? http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/Immo3-ecu-swapping.html#USED:

[Matt Devo]

Ross-tech's site states that you need the 7 digit SKC (which audi no longer gives out) in order to do the swap. How are you getting around this? http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/Immo3-ecu-swapping.html#USED:

you need either the 7-digit (one-time-use) SKC or the 4-digit (permanent) SKC. Ross-tech's updated wiki instructions handle either case: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_ECU_Swapping

[DNasty777]

Wow, you're a life (and wallet) saver.

Why can't it be an official Ross tech cable? Can I use an official one in "dumb" mode? I have both KII-USB and HEX-USB+CAN.

[Matt Devo]

Wow, you're a life (and wallet) saver.

Why can't it be an official Ross tech cable? Can I use an official one in "dumb" mode? I have both KII-USB and HEX-USB+CAN.

the VAG K+CAN Commander software uses a standard COM port, so if the cable you have can be used as a serial port (with assigned #), then you're good to go. I'm not entirely familiar with all the ross-tech cables, I just know the one I have only shows up under windows as a ross-tech USB interface, not a standard serial port, so I use a cheapo $8 ebay cable instead.

[khj677turbo]

I been needing to do this as well... Audi/vw wanted 360 dollars from me... yikes

[Pr0n]

I might be up too late, but how do you obtain the 4-digit PIN?

[rollerton]

All true, but fair warning: Be careful what Vag K+ Can / Kommander you decide to use. I can tell you from experience you have as good a chance at corrupting your software as you do reading the true PIN. But you can read the PIN from either the cluster or the ECU over OBD. I don't know if it's a limitation of the fake-chinese hardware or if it's their pirated software, but clicking the wrong button can make an ECU or Cluster useless instantly. I've had 3 different Chinese Vag K+ setups, and NONE of them worked properly.
And once you have the SKC you CAN use a real VCDS interface, just do the Immo adaptation in the cluster module.
Pretty sure ' Mpower ' would be able to help you out with this if you want to eliminate ALL risk. PM him, he's one of the few people who spent the coin on the right tool to work with Rb4 encryption. If I remember right, he can turn Immo OFF at the cluster level or change the SKC to any number you want.

[KFizz]

So not to thread jack or anything, but I'm in the process of buying an ECU with Revo Stage 3 on it. The ECU I'm purchasing has the immo defeated already. Does this mean I dont have to do anything? just slap her in the car?

[DNasty777]

Thanks for the insight rollerton! What vag commander software have you tried that didn't work?

Matt devo, same question, what software worked worked for you?

[rollerton]

The ones I bought were typical Ebay specials. They weren't cheap, one was $180. It didn't do shit. And I got nothing when I returned it.
The killer was when I took my car to a shop in town that had a variety of Chinese/ fake interfaces, they had one Vag commander that they used a lot, I asked if he'd read the SKC for me, "no problem" he says, he plugged it in, hit "read" and my cluster lit up. Then went dark.
That one click cost that guy $1k to get the car towed 120 miles to the dealer and the cluster replaced.
I know the safer way is to read the ECU and the SKC is in there if you know how to decode it....maybe that's how Matt is doing it?

[Matt Devo]

All true, but fair warning: Be careful what Vag K+ Can / Kommander you decide to use. I can tell you from experience you have as good a chance at corrupting your software as you do reading the true PIN. But you can read the PIN from either the cluster or the ECU over OBD. I don't know if it's a limitation of the fake-chinese hardware or if it's their pirated software, but clicking the wrong button can make an ECU or Cluster useless instantly. I've had 3 different Chinese Vag K+ setups, and NONE of them worked properly.
And once you have the SKC you CAN use a real VCDS interface, just do the Immo adaptation in the cluster module.
Pretty sure ' Mpower ' would be able to help you out with this if you want to eliminate ALL risk. PM him, he's one of the few people who spent the coin on the right tool to work with Rb4 encryption. If I remember right, he can turn Immo OFF at the cluster level or change the SKC to any number you want.

The issue you are referring to is attempting to read the cluster PIN, since it is encrypted. Trying to do this with VAG K+CAN Commander is definitely bad, as others on the forum have found out. But there's no issue reading the ECU PIN as far as I know.



So not to thread jack or anything, but I'm in the process of buying an ECU with Revo Stage 3 on it. The ECU I'm purchasing has the immo defeated already. Does this mean I dont have to do anything? just slap her in the car?

yes, plug/play. The only issue is that since you aren't adapting the ECU to your system, the ECU will still list the VIN of the vehicle on which it was last adapted. But if you were to try and adapt the ECU to your system, the Revo programming would revert to stock mode (ask me how I know), so it's better that you just leave it alone.


Matt devo, same question, what software worked worked for you?

VAG K+CAN Commander v1.4 (CHINA). As per above, use it only to read the ECU pin, don't try anything with the cluster or you'll be sending it to mpower for repair.

[DNasty777]

Damn that sucks rollerton. I know there are other ways, k0mpressed had a DIY for it but that includes bench flashing, using hex editors, and having a general knowledge of hexadecimal, all of which I have no access to and no knowledge of.

Thanks for the clarification Matt!

[KFizz]

yes, plug/play. The only issue is that since you aren't adapting the ECU to your system, the ECU will still list the VIN of the vehicle on which it was last adapted. But if you were to try and adapt the ECU to your system, the Revo programming would revert to stock mode (ask me how I know), so it's better that you just leave it alone.

Consider it left! Thanks

[rollerton]

My opinion is the "safe" and easy for sure way to be fixed would just be to send your cluster to Tom ( Mpower ) and have him turn the immo off at the cluster. Plug your ECU in and drive. Or possibly have him read the SKC, and you can swap parts out at will and re-adapt each time.
But..maybe Matt knows this- I think once an ECU is adapted to a car (immo) it stays adapted. Meaning if you have 2 or 3 ECu's and they've even been adapted, you can simply reinstall and drive?
I know it works with clusters, I have 3 clusters adapted to my car right now, no programming needed to swap one out.
And my old ImmoIII VW GTI I had 2 ECU's I could swap back and forth.
If you think you'll be doing a lot of swapping or software changes then have Matt tutor you on the right tools, otherwise I'd stay sway from the Chinese stuff, too risky and it gets expensive if it doesn't work.

[Matt Devo]

My opinion is the "safe" and easy for sure way to be fixed would just be to send your cluster to Tom ( Mpower ) and have him turn the immo off at the cluster. Plug your ECU in and drive. Or possibly have him read the SKC, and you can swap parts out at will and re-adapt each time.
But..maybe Matt knows this- I think once an ECU is adapted to a car (immo) it stays adapted. Meaning if you have 2 or 3 ECu's and they've even been adapted, you can simply reinstall and drive?
I know it works with clusters, I have 3 clusters adapted to my car right now, no programming needed to swap one out.
And my old ImmoIII VW GTI I had 2 ECU's I could swap back and forth.
If you think you'll be doing a lot of swapping or software changes then have Matt tutor you on the right tools, otherwise I'd stay sway from the Chinese stuff, too risky and it gets expensive if it doesn't work.

I recommend against disabling the immobilizer in the cluster for obvious (anti-theft) reasons, and based on consultation with Tom/mpower feel that reading the pin from the ECU (*not* cluster) is safe and non-destructive. I'll try to do a write-up on this sometime soon, and can provide the software to those that need it.

As for adaptation, once an ECU is pair with your cluster, it can be swapped in/out with any other paired ECUs indefinitely.

[khj677turbo]

I recommend against disabling the immobilizer in the cluster for obvious (anti-theft) reasons, and based on consultation with Tom/mpower feel that reading the pin from the ECU (*not* cluster) is safe and non-destructive. I'll try to do a write-up on this sometime soon, and can provide the software to those that need it.

This would be fantastic.. I have had my REVO tuned ecu in my trunk since October because I haven't found a way to defeat the immobilizer in a way that made sense or was financially practical

[Matt Devo]

This would be fantastic.. I have had my REVO tuned ecu in my trunk since October because I haven't found a way to defeat the immobilizer in a way that made sense or was financially practical

my write-up would be on reading the 4-digit pin from the ECU and using that with VCDS to adapt the ECU to the immobilizer, not to defeat the immobilizer (for which there are other write-ups already, and others on the forum who can provide the service). But, since you have a Revo-flashed ECU, adapting the ECU to your immobilizer will cause the software to revert to a stock-like tune (compatible with whatever injectors the tune was originally for), necessitating a reflash from your local Revo dealer or Revo itself (what I had to do).

[DNasty777]

Is that only for REVO or all tunes?

[Matt Devo]

Is that only for REVO or all tunes?

I don't know, I'd assume it's something that all flashed tunes do but I'm not sure. With older ECUs that have physical chips on them, it's not an issue at all.

[DNasty777]

Bump

Has anyone adapted the immobilizer that had APR software on it? Did you loose it?

[Charles.waite]

You could always just buy the tune from Revo/APR.


What? I'm just saying...[>_<]

[DNasty777]

I know. [headbang]

There's a couple reasons I want to do it this way though. It's cheaper, more fun (I get to wrench a little more), and I'm helping out a fellow 'Ziner.

[Matt Devo]

You could always just buy the tune from Revo/APR.

What? I'm just saying...[>_<]

So you're arguing that there should be no secondary/used market for flashed ECUs? I understand the need to protect the company's product/IP, especially given that we're dealing with software and not a physical chip, but that doesn't automatically trump the customer's right to resell their ECU and transfer the software license to a new owner. It's beneficial to everyone to have the policies/procedures for each tuner documented.

[Charles.waite]

So you're arguing that there should be no secondary/used market for flashed ECUs? I understand the need to protect the company's product/IP, especially given that we're dealing with software and not a physical chip, but that doesn't automatically trump the customer's right to resell their ECU and transfer the software license to a new owner. It's beneficial to everyone to have the policies/procedures for each tuner documented.

Oh I agree, I was just being a jackass!

[diagnosticator]

Matt,

Looking forward to the write up you described. Any progress on that? No rush, just wanting to have this capabilty. I bought a VAG K+ CAN Commander with a dedicated cable, that is supposedly equipped with a license in the chip in the cable interface, to enable the software functions. I have not really tried to use it yet being a bit leary of the possible complicatons.

[Info@EuroCode]

If you are trying to swap a chipped ECU from one car to another, you are going to lose the programming...the programming is not transfereable from car to car.

When you attempt to to resku the ECU (match the key and cluster) it will change the VIN that was coded on the ECU to that of the new car. Once this is done, any programming on the ECU will revert right to stock. It is a little Easter egg that is placed on the programming from the tuners.

Some software companies offer a warranty transfer, but this only applies to the same car and not swapping ECU's.

Matt Devo can attest to this, as he was faced with this very same situation. If you are trying to do this with stock programming, you will not have any issues. Just do not buy an ECU thinking you will get the previous owners flash!


Before you guys get your panties in a bunch, this is for security purposes and to keep people from copying the entire binary/hex from one EPROM to another, then pairing that binary/hex to another car (essentially stealing the programming)

[VegasUSP]

If you are trying to swap a chipped ECU from one car to another, you are going to lose the programming...the programming is not transfereable from car to car.

When you attempt to to resku the ECU (match the key and cluster) it will change the VIN that was coded on the ECU to that of the new car. Once this is done, any programming on the ECU will revert right to stock. It is a little Easter egg that is placed on the programming from the tuners.

Some software companies offer a warranty transfer, but this only applies to the same car and not swapping ECU's.

Matt Devo can attest to this, as he was faced with this very same situation. If you are trying to do this with stock programming, you will not have any issues. Just do not buy an ECU thinking you will get the previous owners flash!


Before you guys get your panties in a bunch, this is for security purposes and to keep people from copying the entire binary/hex from one EPROM to another, then pairing that binary/hex to another car (essentially stealing the programming)

Definitely following this thread as I have a Revo loaded Ecu that I am going to install. From your post it sounds as if I'll just do the immo defeat to keep the software.

[DNasty777]

If you are trying to swap a chipped ECU from one car to another, you are going to lose the programming...the programming is not transfereable from car to car.

When you attempt to to resku the ECU (match the key and cluster) it will change the VIN that was coded on the ECU to that of the new car. Once this is done, any programming on the ECU will revert right to stock. It is a little Easter egg that is placed on the programming from the tuners.

Some software companies offer a warranty transfer, but this only applies to the same car and not swapping ECU's.

Matt Devo can attest to this, as he was faced with this very same situation. If you are trying to do this with stock programming, you will not have any issues. Just do not buy an ECU thinking you will get the previous owners flash!

Thank you for the definitive answer!


Before you guys get your panties in a bunch, this is for security purposes and to keep people from copying the entire binary/hex from one EPROM to another, then pairing that binary/hex to another car (essentially stealing the programming)

If its only for security of IP and proprietary software/programming, why only allow warranty transfer to the same car? IMHO the security bit may true but I also think they are doing it to get more money.

[rollerton]

That's how it goes. Can't adapt a tune to another VIN#.
Thus the simplicity of turning the Immo off at the cluster. ...I agree the anti-theft feature is a big deal for most people, but you could always do a kill switch or some...other.. thing? I wonder if anyone has actually run a non-adapted ECU in a different car? I know the coding can be touchy if everything isn't 'perfect", some modules require all errors cleared and certain requisites met or you can't change soft coding, so I wonder if you can just *plug it in* and drive if Immo is off?

[lookaught]

When swapping an immo-defeated ECU into my car, what adaptation values need to be checked and copied to make sure everything in my car still works? The ross tech wiki talks about recoding the pin for immo purposes (is this the last four digits of the 14 digit code??), but it also says to make sure all relevant coding and adaptation values are transferred... which should I transfer?

[boy412]

Informative info...thanks to Matt Devo, rollerton, and (as always) diagnosticator.

[Matt Devo]

That's how it goes. Can't adapt a tune to another VIN#.
Thus the simplicity of turning the Immo off at the cluster. ...I agree the anti-theft feature is a big deal for most people, but you could always do a kill switch or some...other.. thing? I wonder if anyone has actually run a non-adapted ECU in a different car? I know the coding can be touchy if everything isn't 'perfect", some modules require all errors cleared and certain requisites met or you can't change soft coding, so I wonder if you can just *plug it in* and drive if Immo is off?

see below...


When swapping an immo-defeated ECU into my car, what adaptation values need to be checked and copied to make sure everything in my car still works? The ross tech wiki talks about recoding the pin for immo purposes (is this the last four digits of the 14 digit code??), but it also says to make sure all relevant coding and adaptation values are transferred... which should I transfer?

just copy over the soft coding, then do a throttle body adaption on the new ECU.

[boy412]

- ECUs are interchangeable as-is (all 03-05 with AF/AK part), no need to update; only 02s with -F part can not be used interchangeably

What about an ECU with a "BC" suffix? Will that work in a 2003 (which currently has an "AF" suffix after the p/n)?

[Bische]

[:)]

[lookaught]

just copy over the soft coding, then do a throttle body adaption on the new ECU.

I know how to do a TBA but can you explain how to copy all the soft coding?

Sorry I'm not super familiar with VAGCOM, I know the basics but don't use it often. Thanks for you help!

[Matt Devo]

What about an ECU with a "BC" suffix? Will that work in a 2003 (which currently has an "AF" suffix after the p/n)?

yes, it should. 2002 is the only year that doesn't play well with others


I know how to do a TBA but can you explain how to copy all the soft coding?

Sorry I'm not super familiar with VAGCOM, I know the basics but don't use it often. Thanks for you help!

look at the value for the soft coding for your current ecu, then set the coding of the new ECU to the same value

[Pr0n]

I know how to do a TBA but can you explain how to copy all the soft coding?

Sorry I'm not super familiar with VAGCOM, I know the basics but don't use it often. Thanks for you help!

Ignore the circle. The "soft coding" is on the second dialog box on the left. You would need to save that number for most (maybe ALL, someone else can provide better insight) modules. When you put in the "new" ECU, you'd code all the modules back with that soft coding number, that way you won't have to remember each individual setting you had for each control module, as the soft coding would have all the settings defined. Mind you, the Adaptation is NOT part of the soft coding, so you'd have to recode that manually, but those are rarely changed unless you (or the previous ECU owner) did some deep configuration & tweaking (like I have).

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1290/enginelogin0yr.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1290/enginelogin0yr.jpg (sourced from http://www.seatibiza.net/foro/showthread.php?19406-VAGCOM-...-Trucos-manuales-y-dudas )

What is "Phil Collins" doing in your mod list?

[lookaught]

Awesome, thanks! So I just click through and check each module for the soft code and change any that are different on the replacement ecu using the "recode" button? I think the only adaptation values I have changed are to make the door locks all unlock with one push of the button and to make the remote roll down/up the windows.

Regarding the modules... is it safe to only do the modules that are listed in the auto scan for my car? There are a TON of modules and many clearly have no application for my car (like "sliding door" and "diesel pump"), but do you think the auto scan list is comprehensive for this model? It's generic to the B6/B7 platform i believe, so I'm guessing that list will include every relevant module and also some that have no bearing on my car.

Thanks again for the help!


also, I run genesis 430 injectors and at the time when I was writing the mod list in my sig I think I was actually listening to some Phil Collins, which I think is far superior to the Genesis days, so I put his name in instead. Though I'm changing htem to 550s that are not branded genesis so I guess I'll need to change that soon.

[lookaught]

And to add to the original purpose of this post:

If I were you, I would not buy a used ECU to try to get the programming. I tried this years ago when I first started modding my car and bought a GIAC tuned ECU that had a physical piggyback chip. The ECU itself cost $200, and I assumed the immo adaptation (at that time, the consensus was the dealer and the SKC was the only way to get around the immo problem) ended up costing another $200. So $400 for a tune... saved like $100. Then when I decided to go BT I needed to put my original ECU back into the car, so I sent it out to a forum member to clone the immo (again, the early days of this type of work). The result was two ECUs with check sum errors, that leaves a constant CEL on my dash. Somehow the GIAC ECU had developed a check sum error, and the immo copy transferred that or created a new one on my original ECU. Regardless, that ECU was flashed with REVO by 1552 and I paid full price for the tune.

Fast forward a few years to the present. My REVO ECU now has kept my car from passing emissions for three years, though not the fault of REVO, it had the check sum error before the flash I believe. The ECU has now developed a problem where it has only intermittent connectivity through the OBD port, so I can barely run VAGCOM on the car as it continuously crashes. The car still runs, but I can't log and data. I contacted REVO and they offered to bench test my ECU, bench test my SPS+ which has also never worked properly, and if the ECU is bad they offered to transfer the programming to another ECU and update it to the latest 550cc injector file (the ECU I'm working on installing now, hence the posts above) and to replace the SPS+ for free. They even offered to pay return shipping!

So in the end, I paid $400 for an ECU that has lived in my toolbox for the past four years with a GIAC file. Then another $50 for an immo clone, then another $175 for a replacement ECU to get rid of this check sum error, plus the cost of the REVO stage III flash. If I had just paid for REVO stage one programming in the beginning, I could have kept my original ECU, then upgraded for cheap to the stage III, and had customer support the entire time. I tried to go the cheap way and transfer, but frankly, for software that may develop a glitch or if the ECU fails as mine has, you will end up paying for the software again.

So the moral of my story is pay the tuner for the software. It's expensive, but in the end if may save you a lot of time and money. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wont make this mistake again in the future.

[Matt Devo]

Awesome, thanks! So I just click through and check each module for the soft code and change any that are different on the replacement ecu using the "recode" button? I think the only adaptation values I have changed are to make the door locks all unlock with one push of the button and to make the remote roll down/up the windows.

Regarding the modules... is it safe to only do the modules that are listed in the auto scan for my car? There are a TON of modules and many clearly have no application for my car (like "sliding door" and "diesel pump"), but do you think the auto scan list is comprehensive for this model? It's generic to the B6/B7 platform i believe, so I'm guessing that list will include every relevant module and also some that have no bearing on my car

you only record/change the soft coding for the ECU, as that's the only module you are replacing. The adaptation tweaks you mention are in the central convenience module, not the ECU, so swapping in a new ECU will have no effect on them.


And to add to the original purpose of this post:

If I were you, I would not buy a used ECU to try to get the programming. I tried this years ago when I first started modding my car and bought a GIAC tuned ECU that had a physical piggyback chip. The ECU itself cost $200, and I assumed the immo adaptation (at that time, the consensus was the dealer and the SKC was the only way to get around the immo problem) ended up costing another $200. So $400 for a tune... saved like $100. Then when I decided to go BT I needed to put my original ECU back into the car, so I sent it out to a forum member to clone the immo (again, the early days of this type of work). The result was two ECUs with check sum errors, that leaves a constant CEL on my dash. Somehow the GIAC ECU had developed a check sum error, and the immo copy transferred that or created a new one on my original ECU. Regardless, that ECU was flashed with REVO by 1552 and I paid full price for the tune.

Fast forward a few years to the present. My REVO ECU now has kept my car from passing emissions for three years, though not the fault of REVO, it had the check sum error before the flash I believe. The ECU has now developed a problem where it has only intermittent connectivity through the OBD port, so I can barely run VAGCOM on the car as it continuously crashes. The car still runs, but I can't log and data. I contacted REVO and they offered to bench test my ECU, bench test my SPS+ which has also never worked properly, and if the ECU is bad they offered to transfer the programming to another ECU and update it to the latest 550cc injector file (the ECU I'm working on installing now, hence the posts above) and to replace the SPS+ for free. They even offered to pay return shipping!

So in the end, I paid $400 for an ECU that has lived in my toolbox for the past four years with a GIAC file. Then another $50 for an immo clone, then another $175 for a replacement ECU to get rid of this check sum error, plus the cost of the REVO stage III flash. If I had just paid for REVO stage one programming in the beginning, I could have kept my original ECU, then upgraded for cheap to the stage III, and had customer support the entire time. I tried to go the cheap way and transfer, but frankly, for software that may develop a glitch or if the ECU fails as mine has, you will end up paying for the software again.

So the moral of my story is pay the tuner for the software. It's expensive, but in the end if may save you a lot of time and money. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wont make this mistake again in the future.

While I mostly agree, I'm confused as to why you needed to clone the immobilizer from your GIAC-chipped ECU back to your original ECU. The stock one should have worked just fine, as pairing a new ECU doesn't break the pairing with the old one (or does the dealer do something different that does break it?). I'm able to shuffle my 2 ECUs in/out right now no problem.

[lookaught]

When I bought the GIAC I had the dealer recode the immo so the GIAC ECU would work, which made my original ECU unusable because the new GIAC ECU used an entirely different immo code that has no relation to the original code. When I decided to go BT I needed the stock ECU and rather than spend $200 at the dealer for them to recode my stock ECU to work in my car, I cloned the GIAC immo code for $50. Somehow a check sum error that developed at some point on the GIAC ecu (I know this because I have various "auto scan" files saved and noticed that at some point in time the check sum appeared) and when it was cloned this check sum somehow transferred to the stock ECU. *shrug* I don't know how, but thats whathappened.

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

When I installed the replacement ECU it immediately had many fault codes, which is not surprising because it is from a heavily tuned car with Maestro programming, but when I cleared the engine codes one immediately came back:

18020 - Engine Control Module Incorrectly Coded
P1612 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

The software coding is different between the working ECU and this replacement... one is 0016701 while the replacement is 0016001:

Replacement ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 9ÿ
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Software Coding: 0016001
Work Shop Code: WSC 79929 795 427686
VCID: 336EAD622BAE

Current working, but check sum error ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 909 018
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Coding: 0016701
Shop #: WSC 80176 665 411142
VCID: 336EAD622BB3

Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code? I just don't want to mess with it and fuck something up because Clint gave me the ECU to test to make sure it works before I pay him and I don't want to mess it up if I have to send it back to him.

Also, as it turns out my connectivity issue is not related to the ECU itself as all three ECUs that I have all have this problem, I think maybe a wire to the OBD port is grounding or something... I need to check them individually. Hopefully I can disconnect the harness from the OBD under the dash and pull up the loom through the ECU box so I can inspect everything closely. If I can't find a bad connection I'm not sure what to do next... its an extremely annoying problem because I can't log the car when it keeps losing connection to the ECU.

Thanks again for help with these questions... I know nothing about software programming so I'm just very hesitant to change anything without some hand holding [headbang]

[Matt Devo]

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

yes, ECU = engine control unit (module)


Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code?

yes

[victimdumper]

does anyone know if physically swapping the microchip as per this thread will keep flashed software: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/231046-DIY-B6-A4-ECU-Immobilizer-III-clone-%28or-how-to-swap-any-B6-A4-ECU-into-your-car%29

if it doesn't, has anyone confirmed that an immo delete will keep the flashed software when swapping ecus?

[fr0sty]

if it doesn't, has anyone confirmed that an immo delete will keep the flashed software when swapping ecus?

I sent my ECU out for an immo defeat (I believe it was just a software flash) and it kept the tune.

[victimdumper]

good to know, did you send it to a tuning company for the immo defeat or was it someone on the forum who did it? (i have an ecu im trying to get running in mine that has a stage 1+ that id prefer not to lose)

[VegasUSP]

I sent my ECU out for an immo defeat (I believe it was just a software flash) and it kept the tune.

Who did you send it to?

[Pr0n]

Bump

Has anyone adapted the immobilizer that had APR software on it? Did you loose it?

There's http://www.goapr.com/support/immobilizer.html , unsure if that's what you're looking for.

[lookaught]

When I bought the GIAC I had the dealer recode the immo so the GIAC ECU would work, which made my original ECU unusable because the new GIAC ECU used an entirely different immo code that has no relation to the original code. When I decided to go BT I needed the stock ECU and rather than spend $200 at the dealer for them to recode my stock ECU to work in my car, I cloned the GIAC immo code for $50. Somehow a check sum error that developed at some point on the GIAC ecu (I know this because I have various "auto scan" files saved and noticed that at some point in time the check sum appeared) and when it was cloned this check sum somehow transferred to the stock ECU. *shrug* I don't know how, but thats whathappened.

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

When I installed the replacement ECU it immediately had many fault codes, which is not surprising because it is from a heavily tuned car with Maestro programming, but when I cleared the engine codes one immediately came back:

18020 - Engine Control Module Incorrectly Coded
P1612 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

The software coding is different between the working ECU and this replacement... one is 0016701 while the replacement is 0016001:

Replacement ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 9ÿ
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Software Coding: 0016001
Work Shop Code: WSC 79929 795 427686
VCID: 336EAD622BAE

Current working, but check sum error ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 909 018
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Coding: 0016701
Shop #: WSC 80176 665 411142
VCID: 336EAD622BB3

Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code? I just don't want to mess with it and fuck something up because Clint gave me the ECU to test to make sure it works before I pay him and I don't want to mess it up if I have to send it back to him.

Also, as it turns out my connectivity issue is not related to the ECU itself as all three ECUs that I have all have this problem, I think maybe a wire to the OBD port is grounding or something... I need to check them individually. Hopefully I can disconnect the harness from the OBD under the dash and pull up the loom through the ECU box so I can inspect everything closely. If I can't find a bad connection I'm not sure what to do next... its an extremely annoying problem because I can't log the car when it keeps losing connection to the ECU.

Thanks again for help with these questions... I know nothing about software programming so I'm just very hesitant to change anything without some hand holding [headbang]

Back from the dead...

Clint's already immo-defeated ECU did not solve my problems because REVO was unable to flash it. I changed the 07-Coding value from 06001 to 06701, but REVO couldnt flash it. I ended up sending the ECU back to Clint. REVO said they think it was because it was previously flashed with Maestro... but I have no idea what hte problem was and REVO offered to write a flash that will simultaneously defeat the immo (and made a new ecu work in my car) and flash it to the current 550cc software.

REVO has finally come through and has an immo defeated Stage 3 flash ready to go... so I have a bone stock replacement F box ECU that I plan to put in my car, adapt the single soft coding to 06701, and then ship it off to REVO for the flash.

Can anyone please confirm this is all I need to do here? There's always mention of soft coding and adaptation values etc... quite frankly that's all over my head. I'm just trying to get the ECU ready so REVO can flash it with a tune that defeats the immo via the software, and then it should work in my car... although there won't be a working immo.

Thanks for the help.

[Matt Devo]

if Revo is defeating the immo, then all you need to do is set the soft coding to match your existing ECU. Before or after they flash, doesn't matter. No need to mess with any adaptation values

[ddillenger]

if Revo is defeating the immo, then all you need to do is set the soft coding to match your existing ECU. Before or after they flash, doesn't matter. No need to mess with any adaptation values

I'm just going to go ahead and add this. The immobilizer data is stored in the same location as the adaptations. If they transfer his immo-data from one ecu to another, the adaptations go with it.

[lookaught]

Thanks for the responses. As far as I know, REVO is not transferring my immo, they are simply flashing my current ECU to stock, and flashing the new ECU with their 550cc tune and an immobilizer defeat incorporated into the software. Apparently getting this program that also defeats the immo is what took so long (16 months).

Would you mind explaining what the soft coding versus adaptations are, what they perform, and how they are different? I'm a computer n00b when it comes to cars. I just would like to have a grasp on what these numbers do.

Thanks!

[Bische]

The soft coding is for configuring the ECU after your car, fwd/quattro, esp, abs, TIP/manual etc.

Adaptions are fuel trims, boost PID trims, wall wetting/AE trims, knock trims etc.

All of that information plus your Immo and VIN are stored in the same eeprom(0.5kb 95040), a separate chip from the 1mb 29F800 that the tune is flashed to. Normally you kill Immo in the 95040, but you can as Revo does, kill it in the tune also.

[lookaught]

Ok, that makes sense, thanks. My original problem with the check sum error seemed to "transfer" from the old GIAC ecu to the current ECU when I had a guy remove the EEPROMs and copy over the coding... so it makes more sense that the check sum seemed to jump ship to the new ECU.

Are adaptations done automatically by the ECU as you drive? I've never messed with mine, only a few in some other modules for things like windows... although I did modify the fuel economy computation in for the cluster display which might have been in the ECU, and when I got it back my fuel economy predictor in the cluster display is now waaaaaay off base. I guess REVO may have reset the adaptations when the reflashed the ECU from the 440 tune to the 550 tune?

In any event, I'm going to recode the soft code to 16701 and hope for the best. Honestly I have no idea if this soft code is actually the correct one from my car, as I had the dealer swap in the GIAC ECU in 2007 and recode the immo, and while I assume they changed the soft coding I don't know for sure they did so. Is the soft coding also stored on the same EEPROM as the immo and adaptation values? Or is there any way to figure out the correct soft code number based on my car options?

Thanks for the help

[OMGHI]

Back from the dead again !

Did anyone figure out a DIY on retrieving the 4 digit SKC pin from the ECU ? Using vag commander.


Thanks in advance.