Understanding differences between Audi A4 clusters and the compatibility issues

[audifirst]

Disclaimer. The information on this post is for informational purposes only.
This post and all of the information it contains are provided 'as is' without warranty of any kind, whether express or implied.
The wiring information was taken from "Bentley Publishers CD and Hardcover copy", there may be omissions or inaccuracies in information contained in this post. Before making any decision or taking any action based on the information contained in this Post, you should double/triple check information regards to the vehicle you service.
If you found that the information is inaccurate and you have found the solution post it up and I will update the post.

*Updated* additional information provided by user regards to upgrading Cluster 2 from non-lcd to LCD cluster.

Couple people ask me if I can show the differences between instrument clusters from 1996 to 2001.5

The photo below shows all 3 instrument clusters from 1996 to 2001.5 with Full size LCD, some models didn't come with LCD screen because of the package was not selected during ordering of the car.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9001/allclustersrev.jpg

Here is the back of the instrument clusters.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8813/backharnessrev.jpg

You can see the difference between all the clusters the cluster 1 is CDN metric (I didn't have MPH cluster) the other two are MPH

Cluster 1 was installed in 1996 and 1997 Audi A4 early models , no immobilizer the most visible difference is if you look at the analog clock has no digits at 3, 6, 9, at 12 o'clock comparing to cluster 2
Cluster 2 was installed in 1998 to 1999.5 Audi A4 models, , you could swap cluster between these years with no issues, no immobilizer.
Cluster 3 was installed in 2000 to 2001.5 Audi A4 models,some 99.5's with VIN > 8DY000001 had cluster with digital clock, the main difference was the analog clock was replaced with digital clock to match the mileage LCD (North American B5 cars didn't have immobilizer, only European B5 had)

NOW COMPATIBILITY

Legend

Cluster 1 is 1996-1997 (no immobilizer, no Can-Bus)
Cluster 2 is 1998-1999.5 (no immobilizer, no Can-Bus)
Cluster 3 is 2000 to 2001.5 (00+ had no immobilizer but Can-Bus was introduced as of 2000, )


Cluster 2, and cluster 3 can not fit directly into cluster 1, because cluster 1 has different plugs , in order to fit you need to buy new plugs and new pins and rewire connections.
I know two people who proceed with this conversion one did the cluster 2 to cluster 1 and had partially working cluster,
all the gauges were working however compatibility was an issue and error codes were reported cluster did not understand modules in the car, other did cluster 3 to cluster 1 and had only partial success two gauges were working , all the lights were lit up like Christmas tree .

Cluster 3 can be installed into cluster 2 however some rewiring is required to both blue and green plugs and the middle plug from cluster 3 doesn't fit cluster 2 which you need to rewire as well,

Can Bus was introduced in some early 2000+ models which meant that vehicle in 1998-1999 didn't have can-bus and some clusters from 2001-2001.5 didn't work the tachometer or speedometer was not functional , that all depends on the version of the image software that cluster was loaded with.

If your car came originally without center LCD , you can swap the cluster with LCD however in order to change menus on the screen you need to buy new wiper arm with multi-function switch and add wires between the cluster and wiper arm
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9489/nonlcdtolcd.jpg

you will need the wiper control arm that has a switch at the end wiper arm to change menus on center LCD
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7551/wiperarm.jpg
for 1996 to 1997 Cluster 1
you need wiper arm
part# 8D9 953 503 A (sedan)
part# 8D9 953 503 C (Avant)
for 1998 to 2001.5 Cluster 2, and Cluster 3
Part# 4D0 953 503 B (sedan)
part# 8D0 953 503 D (Avant)

There are 3 sets of wires required for wiper arm control harness plug and for the instrument cluster harness plug for the Grey Connector on Cluster 3, and red connector of Cluster 2 , black connector on cluster
I recommend to buy wires from Audi/VW dealer
On cluster 1
You need to insert wires into black 20 pin connector on instrument cluster and to 6 pin harness plug on the wiper arm
Black connector Pin 11 to wiper arm pin 1
Black connector Pin 14 to wiper arm pin 3
Black connector Pin 18 to wiper arm pin 4
Pin 2 on the wiper arm is ground
5, 6 are not used

On cluster 2
-added a wire between the longer ECU connector, pin 17 (yellow wire), to pin 1 on the RED instrument cluster connector
-grounded pins 9, 16, 19 on the RED instrument cluster connector since I don't need bulb out warnings or low washer fluid warning (this worked)

You need to insert wires into red 20 pin connector on instrument cluster and to 6 pin harness plug on the wiper arm
Red connector Pin 18 to wiper arm pin 1
Red connector Pin 14 to wiper arm pin 2
Red connector Pin 11 to wiper arm pin 4
Pin 3 on the wiper arm is ground , I just made a short segment and connected it to the wire coming off Pin 5
Pin 5: ground for the intermittent wiper selector on top of the wiper arm
Pin 6: feedback wire for position of the intermittent wiper selector

For people who have a no-LCD cluster, pins 5 and 6 on the wiper arm will already exist, and they are supposed to exist while using the LCD cluster too. They should not be removed.


Cluster 3
you need to insert wires into Grey connector on the instrument cluster and to 6 pin harness plug on the wiper arm
Grey Connector pin 17 to wiper arm pin 4
Grey Connector pin 18 to wiper arm pin 3
Grey Connector pin 19 to wiper arm pin 1
Pin 2 on the wiper arm is ground
5, 6 are not used

How do I know if I do or don't have immobilizer ?
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2961/immobolizerclusterrev1.jpg

Answer regards Color LCD
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9955/lcdmonocolor.jpg

Here are Pin out for clusters with Full Size LCD
cluster 1

26-Pin Connector, Blue
1 - Open
2 - Signal for buzzer
3 - Terminal 15
4 - Terminal 15
5 - Open
6 - Terminal 61
7 - Parking brake/brake system malfunction
8 - ABS (input signal)
9 - Airbag (input signal)
10 - CAT
11 - Open
12 - Open
13 - Parking light, right
14 - Ignition switch, S-contact
15 - Chime signal
16 - Open
17 - Open
18 - Oil pressure 1.8 bar
19 - Terminal 58d
20 - Coolant level
21 - Turn signal, right
22 - Headlight high beams
23 - Speedometer Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) (checking → Chapter)
24 - Brake fluid
25 - Brake pads
26 - Parking light, left

26-Pin Connector, Yellow

1 - Terminal 58
2 - Terminal 58
3 - Engine RPM signal
4 - Air conditioner compressor
5 - Clock (output)
6 - Speed signal 1
7 - Speed signal 2
8 - Door contact (driver's door)
9 - Terminal 30
10 - Terminal 30
11 - Open
12 - Fuel tank warning
13 - Turn signal, left
14 - Open
15 - Open
16 - Seat belt buckle switch
17 - Open
18 - Terminal 31
19 - Terminal 31
20 - Diagnostic wire
21 - Open
22 - Open
23 - Open
24 - Open
25 - Sender for fuel gauge
26 - Engine coolant temperature sensor

20-Pin Connector, Black
1 - Fuel consumption signal
2 - Open
3 - Open
4 - Open
5 - Outside air temperature
6 - Selector lever display
7 - Open
8 - Open
9 - Coolant level
10 - Hydraulic pressure
11 - Trip computer - Reset
12 - Radio/Telephone - Clock
13 - Radio/Telephone - Data
14 - Trip computer (forward sequence)
15 - Radio/Telephone - Enable
16 - Rear lights/headlight low beams
17 - Open
18 - Trip computer (reverse sequence)
19 - Brake lights
20 - Open

4-Pin Connector, Black
1 - Oil temperature sensor
2 - Open
3 - Open
4 - Open

cluster 2

32-Pin Connector for Basic Functions, Blue
1 - Terminal 15
2 - Turn signal, right
3 - Speedometer output 1
4 - Open
5 - Sender for fuel gauge
6 - Airbag
7 - Terminal 31 sensor Ground (GND)
8 - Coolant temperature
9 - Terminal 31 load Ground (GND)
10 - Oil pressure switch
11 - Engine speed (RPM) signal
12 - Terminal 61
13 - CAT
14 - Self leveling suspension
15 - Terminal 58d
16 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)
17 - High beam
18 - Turn signal, left
19 - ABS
20 - Terminal 58s
21 - Door contact (driver's door)
22 - Engine coolant low
23 - Terminal 30
24 - Terminal 31 load Ground (GND)
25 - K-wire
26 - Parking light, right
27 - Parking light, left
28 - Speedometer (input)
29 - Brake fluid level/pressure
30 - S-contact
31 - Seat belt buckle
32 - Electronic Stability Program (ESP)


32-Pin Connector for Additional Functions, Green
1 - Open
2 - Open
3 - Open
4 - Open
5 - W-wire
6 - Tailgate (Lowline model only)
7 - Brake pad (Highline model only)
8 - Input for outside buzzer control (currently not assigned)
9 - Input for outside chime control (currently not assigned)
10 - Low fuel level warning-output signal for Engine Control Module (ECM)
11 - Standing time output
12 - Air conditioning cutout
13 - Parking brake
14 - Electronic throttle
15 - Side marker light
16 - Open
17 - Open
18 - Open
19 - Open
20 - Open
21 - Oil temperature
22 - Open
23 - Open
24 - Open
25 - Open
26 - Open
27 - Open
28 - Open
29 - Open
30 - Speedometer output 2
31 - Open
32 - Open


20-Pin Connector for Multi-Function Display, Red
1 - Fuel consumption signal
2 - Open
3 - Open
4 - Open
5 - Outside air temperature
6 - Selector lever display
7 - Open
8 - Open
9 - Washer fluid
10 - Hydraulic pressure
11 - Trip computer reset
12 - Clock signal for radio frequency display
13 - Data signal for radio frequency display
14 - Trip computer (forward sequence)
15 - Enable signal for radio frequency display
16 - Tail lights/headlight low beam (indicator lights)
17 - Open
18 - Trip computer (reverse sequence)
19 - Brake lights
20 - Open

Cluster 3

Blue 32-Pin Multi-Pin Connector for Basic Functions
1 - Terminal 15
2 - Brake pad wear
3 - Tachometer output 1
4 - not occupied
5 - Tank sensor
6 - Tank warning OBD 2
7 - Terminal 31 (sensor Ground (GND))
8 - Coolant temperature
9 - Terminal 31 (load Ground (GND))
10 - Oil pressure 2 (high)
11 - RPM signal
12 - A/C shut-off
13 - E-Gas/glow plug control
14 - Level control
15 - Terminal 58d
16 - Trailer turn signal
17 - High beam
18 - Left turn signal
19 - not occupied
20 - Terminal 58s
21 - Driver door contact
22 - Low coolant
23 - Terminal 30
24 - Terminal 31 (load Ground (GND))
25 - Consumption signal
26 - Right parking light
27 - Left parking light
28 - Tachometer input
29 - Brake
30 - S-contact
31 - Tachometer output 2
32 - ESP/ASR


Green 32-Pin Multi-Pin Connector for Auxiliary Functions
1 - Door contact (all doors)
2 - Transponder 1
3 - not occupied
4 - not occupied
5 - W-wire
6 - Tailgate
7 - Right turn signal
8 - External buzzer
9 - External gong
10 - Airbag
11 - Stand-still time output
12 - Terminal 61
13 - Parking brake/BRAKE
14 - CHECK
15 - Oil level/oil temperature
16 - not occupied
17 - Transponder 2
18 - CAN high speed (powertrain) (high +)
19 - CAN high speed (powertrain) (low -)
20 - CAN high speed (powertrain) (screen)
21 - ABS
22 - CAN low speed (comfort) (high +)
23 - CAN low speed (comfort) (low -)
24 - CAN low speed (comfort) (screen)
25 - Engine lid
26 - not occupied
27 - Belt buckle
28 - K-wire
29 - Outside temperature -input
30 - not occupied
31 - Selector range display
32 - not occupied


Gray 32-Pin Multi-Pin Connector for Multi-Function Display
1 - Menu selection switch (menu)
2 - Menu selection switch (out A)
3 - Menu selection switch (out B)
4 - Menu selection switch (Enter)
5 - CAN high speed display (high +)
6 - CAN high speed display (low -)
7 - CAN high speed display (screen)
8 - Passenger door contact
9 - Right rear door contact
10 - Left rear door contact
11 - Enable
12 - Clock
13 - Data
14 - Brake light
15 - Windshield washer fluid level
16 - Rear lights/low beams
17 - Left board computer
18 - Right board computer
19 - Board computer, reset
20 - not occupied
21 - not occupied
22 - not occupied
23 - Button branch 1 navigation
24 - Button branch 2 navigation
25 - Button branch Telematic
26 - not occupied
27 - not occupied
28 - not occupied
29 - not occupied
30 - not occupied
31 - not occupied
32 - not occupied

Wiper Switch Pin, Terminal Assignments
A - 6-pin connector

1 - Board computer, reset
2 - Board computer, Terminal 31
3 - Board computer, right rocker switch
4 - Board computer, left rocker switch
5 - open
6 - open
B - 13-pin harness connector

1 - Wiper switch, terminal J
2 - Wiper switch, terminal 53 c
3 - Emergency light (hazard light) switch, terminal R
4 - Wiper switch, terminal 53 b
5 - Wiper switch, terminal 53 a
6 - Emergency light (hazard light) switch, terminal L
7 - Emergency light (hazard light) switch, terminal 49 a
8 - Wiper switch, terminal 53 e
9 - Wiper switch, terminal 53


Can I install Audi A6/S6/RS6 cluster into Audi A4/S4 ?

The cluster will fit ,the Audi A6 cluster looks the same , however you will run to problems with compatibility .*

1) Audi A6/S6/RS6 have different fuel tank size than A64 so your fuel gauge will not be accurate ,*
2) Audi A6/S6/RS6 dimmer is control by a dimmer switch near headlight , Audi A4 is control by the knob on cluster , you will not be able to control dimmer
3) Software compatibility , each cluster are preloaded with different software versions, so depends on the version one or more gauges (tachometer or speedometer) will not function properly or not at all.*
Best recommendation is to stay with the same cluster from the same model series .*



If you have questions please post them here and I will answer them to best of my ability.

[_hmnib5]

I have the first cluster clock but the second cluster speedometer

[audifirst]

I have the first cluster clock but the second cluster speedometer
I didn't have MPH cluster for Cluster 1 the only difference is the speedometer chart.

[Watson]

Do you know how to get the needles off? I have my cluster apart right now and i want to get down to the leds but I cant get the needles off. Also do you know how I can change the LED's? I have a 99.5 analog clock with no LCD display

[audifirst]

Do you know how to get the needles off? I have my cluster apart right now and i want to get down to the leds but I cant get the needles off. Also do you know how I can change the LED's? I have a 99.5 analog clock with no LCD display

in order to remove needles, you need to pull up and move them counter clockwise ,
the led's are soldered to the board, if you plane to change LED to different color I don't recommend to change them, I would get plasma overlay instead.
the after market led's don't last long , and will burn out quickly

[Watson]

What is a plasma overlay? If you want PM me and we can discuss more of this, I have a few more questions

[A4Rob]

If you really want to have digital clock in 1998-1999 A4 model try to get 1999.5 to 2000 instrument cluster that don't have immobilizer or Can-Bus requirement.




Nice writeup! But, I am certain there is more compatability. My A4 is a early 1999 1.8T with no center LCD. I swapped a cluster from a 2000 with the LCD and everything worked fine.


(Sorry for the crap cell phone pics & flash. I also did a DIN2 swap in the car. I am a EARLY 99 )

Old cluster- stock 99 red/red illumination- analog clock ect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0099.jpg

New cluster- 2000 A4 1.8t white numbers/red needles- digital clock

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0100.jpg

[audifirst]

[QUOTE=A4Rob;6050693]Nice writeup! But, I am certain there is more compatability. My A4 is a early 1999 1.8T with no center LCD. I swapped a cluster from a 2000 with the LCD and everything worked fine.


Yes it will work but there are wiring differences, what happened to the middle plug did you buy grey plug for 2000 cluster ?
example
the blue and green plug pin layout is different between 1998-1999 and 1999.5 and 2001.5 cars some pins are identical which most of the functions work for you, but some are missing which probably not required.

[NeedingAnAudi]

Cluster 3 was installed in 1999.5 to 2001.5 Audi A4 models, the main difference was the analog clock was replaced with digital clock to match the mileage LCD, and in late 2001 immobilizer was added to system.

This doesn't make sense. I have a 99.5 and it has the analog clock. I also test drove another 99.5 and it had an analog clock. In fact, I have never seen a 99.5 with a digital clock.

My cluster:
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss263/NeedingAnAudi/DSCN3036.jpg

[_hmnib5]

I didn't have MPH cluster for Cluster 1 the only difference is the speedometer chart.

Fair Enough

Is it a pain to change a bulb out of the cluster?
The one right behind 140-160mph has gone out
I'll never go that fast in a bone stock 12v a4
but I do want it fixed.

[audifirst]

[QUOTE=NeedingAnAudi;6050813]This doesn't make sense. I have a 99.5 and it has the analog clock. I also test drove another 99.5 and it had an analog clock. In fact, I have never seen a 99.5 with a digital clock.

half year of 1999 was a change for Audi A4 lot of facelifts and changes happen, some cars came with analog clock , some came with digital clock those that were built close to year 2000, they should of wait until 2000 year model and do complete changes

[audifirst]

Fair Enough

Is it a pain to change a bulb out of the cluster?
The one right behind 140-160mph has gone out
I'll never go that fast in a bone stock 12v a4
but I do want it fixed.

No it's not,
you need to remove cover it is just press fitted , behind it there two screws that hold the cluster , remove them then the cluster can be pull out, and changing bulb just use small plier turn and pull the bulb and install new one in,

[_hmnib5]

No it's not,
you need to remove cover it is just press fitted , behind it there two screws that hold the cluster , remove them then the cluster can be pull out, and changing bulb just use small plier turn and pull the bulb and install new one in,

idk what press fitted is
but thank you!

[audifirst]

idk what press fitted is
but thank you!
the trim cover in front of the cluster

[NeedingAnAudi]

half year of 1999 was a change for Audi A4 lot of facelifts and changes happen, some cars came with analog clock , some came with digital clock those that were built close to year 2000, they should of wait until 2000 year model and do complete changes

I know 99 was a facelift year, that's why I have a 99.5 and not a 99. I've just never seen a 99.5 with a digital clock and wanted some proof that they did.

[Castor Troy]

Nice writeup! But, I am certain there is more compatability. My A4 is a early 1999 1.8T with no center LCD. I swapped a cluster from a 2000 with the LCD and everything worked fine.


(Sorry for the crap cell phone pics & flash. I also did a DIN2 swap in the car. I am a EARLY 99 )

Old cluster- stock 99 red/red illumination- analog clock ect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0099.jpg

New cluster- 2000 A4 1.8t white numbers/red needles- digital clock

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0100.jpg

Rob, what all was required to get the center screen to work on your car?

[audifirst]

Rob, what all was required to get the center screen to work on your car?

You need new wiper arm with multi selection switch, and need wires for wiring into cluster plug harness and into wiper arm harness plug

[Scotty@Advanced]

This doesn't make sense. I have a 99.5 and it has the analog clock. I also test drove another 99.5 and it had an analog clock. In fact, I have never seen a 99.5 with a digital clock.

My cluster:
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss263/NeedingAnAudi/DSCN3036.jpg

I scrapped a 1999.5 Audi A4 1.8 FWD with a digital clock.

[A4Rob]

You need new wiper arm with multi selection switch, and need wires for wiring into cluster plug harness and into wiper arm harness plug

I did none of that. FYI, I have no wiper motor, or linkage.

[Castor Troy]

i think he meant the wiper control stalk that has the buttons for changing the menu on the center dispaly

[stevejones19]

hmmm. My 96 has none of those clusters... Technically, the date on my car is 95, but still is a 96, but i know that there is 2 different clusters even for this era. My original cluster has no numbers on the clock and only 4 squares that lights up in the middle. (Same place as the lcd screen on the 6 square ones.) But i got a newer 96 cluster from NeedingAnAudi and it has a few differences. All them are Difficult to explain without posting up pictures, which i can do if it makes any difference, but one big one is a chime that comes on when the door opens... The old one doesn't have that speaker anywhere on the cluster.

-Steve

[black99.5a4]

If you are going off of Audi's years on when those clusters came out. I'll tell you. My 99.5 is a VERY late 99 and no 99.5 have digital clocks. What Audi does is go off of chassis number, they dont tell you that the car was put out as a 00 and registered as such with a title and vin and all to match 00, along with wiring, options, etc. No 99.5 had digital clocks.

Just like if you call the dealer and talk to them about engine wiring, they will tell you Audi says ME7 fits 99-01.. which we all know 99.5 still had AEB and they also say some 00's had AWM's.. what it is is Chassis code, not actual vin of the year THEY put the car out as.

When going from analog to digital, you have to rewire or swap dash harnesses, the plugs are nowhere near the same.

for example, 98.5-99.5 analog clusters have 2 32 pins and 1 10 pin red connector. LCD is 2 32 pins and 1 20 pin. 00-01.5 (02 for s4's) all were 3 32 pin connectors.

Also no b5 a4, regardless how late it is, came with Immo. I have a 99.5 and a June/01 built 01.5 and neither have IMMO.

[2000A4B5NH]

My LCD has gone bad...does anyone know where I can get a new one?

[black99.5a4]

http://pixelfix.info/ can fix it. its a 200 ish dollar service from anyone who's reputable.

[NeedingAnAudi]

hmmm. My 96 has none of those clusters... Technically, the date on my car is 95, but still is a 96, but i know that there is 2 different clusters even for this era. My original cluster has no numbers on the clock and only 4 squares that lights up in the middle. (Same place as the lcd screen on the 6 square ones.) But i got a newer 96 cluster from NeedingAnAudi and it has a few differences. All them are Difficult to explain without posting up pictures, which i can do if it makes any difference, but one big one is a chime that comes on when the door opens... The old one doesn't have that speaker anywhere on the cluster.

-Steve

That cluster working for you?

[2000A4B5NH]

http://pixelfix.info/ can fix it. its a 200 ish dollar service from anyone who's reputable.


Awesome, thanks for the link.

[stevejones19]

That cluster working for you?

only swapped it in temporarily. It has 112,00 on it. so i'm waiting to hit 212,000 to make it an easy number to remember. lol. only have 6,000 more to go. ( goes by very quickly thankfully)

[A4drei]

hmmm. My 96 has none of those clusters... Technically, the date on my car is 95, but still is a 96, but i know that there is 2 different clusters even for this era. My original cluster has no numbers on the clock and only 4 squares that lights up in the middle. (Same place as the lcd screen on the 6 square ones.) But i got a newer 96 cluster from NeedingAnAudi and it has a few differences. All them are Difficult to explain without posting up pictures, which i can do if it makes any difference, but one big one is a chime that comes on when the door opens... The old one doesn't have that speaker anywhere on the cluster.

-Steve

YEah i have the same. it has like 4 lights that can turn on in the middle i believe. however, the thing that suck bout the 95 cluster is that it has no "open door" warning! many less features.

[Dallas09]

YEah i have the same. it has like 4 lights that can turn on in the middle i believe. however, the thing that suck bout the 95 cluster is that it has no "open door" warning! many less features.

Along with all of the dummy light clusters, including the 6 dummy light version, although my cluster chimes once if a door is open but there is no visual warning.

[twofaze]

nice wright up....

[Polski]

Very good write up.

[walky_talky20]

If anybody else has photos of the earlier cluster, you should share. I think it would be great for this thread to have a photo of every version.

Great thread.

[stevejones19]

I'll try and get some up tommorow. Just a few subtle differences.

[Insomniac]

Woah. I never knew early models had analog clocks.[up]

[Altech75]

This has enough info and pics to easily make it into the FAQ section.

[weaselciuy]

I have an Audi A4 B5 Facelift 99.5 (built in June 1999) and it has analog clock + no BC like NeedingAnAudi posted pic :/

Offtopic can someone tell me, in PM, how can i tell if my car or something else, has can-bus protocol? And what protocol do i have if its not canbus??

I really need to know how to spot it. Ty...

[audifirst]

I have an Audi A4 B5 Facelift 99.5 (built in June 1999) and it has analog clock + no BC like NeedingAnAudi posted pic :/

Offtopic can someone tell me, in PM, how can i tell if my car or something else, has can-bus protocol? And what protocol do i have if its not canbus??

I really need to know how to spot it. Ty...

you can read about can-bus here
http://canbuskit.com/what.php http://canbuskit.com/what.php
it will give you idea what is the difference between non-canbus and canbus system
your car probably don't have Canbus, in Europe can bus was introduced year earlier then North American cars, those with digital clock in europe have can bus, easiest way to check if you have original radio remove it and look at the pin diagram those that have CAn will have pins label with CAN if you don't see it you don't have it

[onemoremile]

If you have an analog clock you also have an AEB with a good old fashioned mechanical throttle body. If you also have the nicer door handles, side blinkers, headlights, etc. then you have a 99.5 which has the body of a 2000 and the older electrical and mechanical guts. If you have a digital clock, drive by wire throttle body, big ass radio, and other CAN-BUS type stuff then you didn't get the AEB but everything else is pretty snazzy. We'll call you a 2000.

The actual born on date is arbitrary. The model year as we're referencing it pertains to when the lines were stocked with different parts. They updated the exterior about half a year before updating the electronics, drivetrain, and interior.

99.5 is the way to be y'all.

[coolgraymemo]

99.5 is the way to be y'all.

99.5 FTW!

I've owned a 99, but my facelift is soo much nicer...

[stevejones19]

96 FTL! lol. I would not recomend buying one too anyone. They're old and so many silly things are different on them. [headbang]

[A4drei]

96 FTL! lol. I would not recomend buying one too anyone. They're old and so many silly things are different on them. [headbang]

i Gotta say, mine has been super reliable. ive got the 95.5 edition though. this car is still hella luxurious. thats what really matters. even though i bought my car with many problems, they were acctually really easy to fix.

[Quattro 4 Life]

I'm not sure if this is a problem for other guys with the 99.5 cluster, but the dial that controls the brightness is totally whack. the lights are always dim, or if i mess around with it long enough it might stay bright until the car hits a bump and they go back to dim again. Anybody know a solution to this? its my biggest pet peeve of the car and would love to fix it

[clubaudi]

i have a 00 a4 and the lcd screen is messed up, so i picked up a 00 passat cluster but when i plug it up not everything works, i dont have a pinout for either cluster so i can re pin it, where can i find the pinouts at?

[coolgraymemo]

do all 99.5's come with the center LCD? mine has a pre-facelift center things, but with facelift icons (ie worn brake pads).

[audifirst]

do all 99.5's come with the center LCD? mine has a pre-facelift center things, but with facelift icons (ie worn brake pads).
All depended on selected package when was ordered at factory or when was ordered at dealer, so not all came with dashboard LCD

[audifirst]

i have a 00 a4 and the lcd screen is messed up, so i picked up a 00 passat cluster but when i plug it up not everything works, i dont have a pinout for either cluster so i can re pin it, where can i find the pinouts at?

why don't you get your existing cluster repaired ? Passat cluster I think is smaller then audi cluster doesn't have battery/oil temp gauges you will need a lot of rewiring

[A4drei]

http://i56.tinypic.com/v49sad.jpg
95.5/96(?) cluster. somene asked for pics of it earlier.
(sorry if its a crappy picture. lotsa sun. ironically in seattle.)

[J Ozzie]

how do i get my hands on the CEL Light for an 01 cluster.. i took mine appart and the asshole before me didnt want to replace the MAFS so he removed the LED

[_hmnib5]

is the LED bulb something I can get at any auto parts store or is it a specific bulb?

[audifirst]

how do i get my hands on the CEL Light for an 01 cluster.. i took mine appart and the asshole before me didnt want to replace the MAFS so he removed the LED

you need LED , you can probably buy it at electronic store, I don't think car store carry , you could possibly get bulb with LED desolder and solder back to board

[audifirst]

is the LED bulb something I can get at any auto parts store or is it a specific bulb?

You can buy LED's at electronic store that sells satellite dishes or other electronics..

[_hmnib5]

I found some at autozone. I really want white ones though

[J Ozzie]

yeah i need the replacement white one. Just dont know what to get

[stevejones19]

http://i56.tinypic.com/v49sad.jpg
95.5/96(?) cluster. somene asked for pics of it earlier.
(sorry if its a crappy picture. lotsa sun. ironically in seattle.)

This is a later 96 one. I THINK even the 97's are different. They are 6 squares in the middle area. But the one i bought off NeedingAnAudi was the same as this. The one that was in my car previously was a touch different. There are no pins to stop the needles from passing 0 when you turn the car off. And There is no chime when you open your door or leave your lights on. And the older model was easier to open up. lol

[shaferbm]

I have a 99.5 and don't have a big lcd. I want to switch to a larger one though. If I do according to the OP, will the mileage come up as the actual mileage on my car, or will it show the mileage from the car the cluster came from? I want MY mileage on it if I switch.

[audifirst]

I have a 99.5 and don't have a big lcd. I want to switch to a larger one though. If I do according to the OP, will the mileage come up as the actual mileage on my car, or will it show the mileage from the car the cluster came from? I want MY mileage on it if I switch.

If you buy a used cluster that has mileage programmed and you install to your car, that mileage in that cluster becomes current mileage of the car,

[shaferbm]

So I would have to have the mileage programmed to my car?

[audifirst]

So I would have to have the mileage programmed to my car?

yes,

[A4drei]

This is a later 96 one. I THINK even the 97's are different. They are 6 squares in the middle area. But the one i bought off NeedingAnAudi was the same as this. The one that was in my car previously was a touch different. There are no pins to stop the needles from passing 0 when you turn the car off. And There is no chime when you open your door or leave your lights on. And the older model was easier to open up. lol

lol my car was manufactured in april of 95.5 so im pretty sure this is the oldest one. the older 95.5 cars had bigger wheel bearings to. which mine does and its freakin rediculous. they decidded to change a buncha stuff mid production.

[shaferbm]

yes,

Shoot. Where can this be done? sorry... me= a4 rookie[:p]

[coolgraymemo]

^
dealer

[iulypop2003]

Hello,
I have read you must connect 4 wires from the wiper arm but I don't know where to connect the others?
Thanks
http://piasoft.ro/DSC04106n.jpg

[HETPE3B]

Does somebody know how to power up the cluster (A4 98') without the car? I have the cluster and want to double check the pixels on the screen. I believe there should be connected some positive wires and some ground connection.
Need the pinout of the connectors.

[gmx]

This doesn't make sense. I have a 99.5 and it has the analog clock. I also test drove another 99.5 and it had an analog clock. In fact, I have never seen a 99.5 with a digital clock.

My cluster:
http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss263/NeedingAnAudi/DSCN3036.jpg


What's the build date/month?


If you are going off of Audi's years on when those clusters came out. I'll tell you. My 99.5 is a VERY late 99 and no 99.5 have digital clocks. What Audi does is go off of chassis number, they dont tell you that the car was put out as a 00 and registered as such with a title and vin and all to match 00, along with wiring, options, etc. No 99.5 had digital clocks.

Just like if you call the dealer and talk to them about engine wiring, they will tell you Audi says ME7 fits 99-01.. which we all know 99.5 still had AEB and they also say some 00's had AWM's.. what it is is Chassis code, not actual vin of the year THEY put the car out as.

When going from analog to digital, you have to rewire or swap dash harnesses, the plugs are nowhere near the same.

for example, 98.5-99.5 analog clusters have 2 32 pins and 1 10 pin red connector. LCD is 2 32 pins and 1 20 pin. 00-01.5 (02 for s4's) all were 3 32 pin connectors.

Also no b5 a4, regardless how late it is, came with Immo. I have a 99.5 and a June/01 built 01.5 and neither have IMMO.

Chassis code would mean something like 8D2 OG5? The code right under the VIN on the data sticker?
No immo is only for north american B5s. Rest of the world had different version of it depend on the year/cluster. Most int'l visitors should take caution with info posted in this thread.


you can read about can-bus here
http://canbuskit.com/what.php http://canbuskit.com/what.php
it will give you idea what is the difference between non-canbus and canbus system
your car probably don't have Canbus, in Europe can bus was introduced year earlier then North American cars, those with digital clock in europe have can bus, easiest way to check if you have original radio remove it and look at the pin diagram those that have CAn will have pins label with CAN if you don't see it you don't have it

Apparently so, I will check out my radio.

[SQUIZ34]

hello from the uk,

i have a query about cluster number 1...........i have a 1997 b5 1.8t my cluster is the same as number 1 however..........the write up states no immobilisor....how ever..... mine does.

the immo light is on the rev counter to the right of the center...........i have to change my cluster as the speedo ticks like a second hand on a clock round so it is reading 160mph when im actually doing 30 mph and stays there untill the engine is turned off. anyone got ideas?

ive been told if i replace the cluster it HAS to be reprogrammed to suit the ecu.


unless anybody knows anything different??

thanks in advance

[gmx]

I just mentioned above, that the info in this thread is mostly intends for North American B5s.
You do have Immo, as far as what version, I'm not sure. I think 2? You would have to research where the immo unit is on you car, I don't believe it got round to integration in the dash cluster at that time (like immo3). I might be wrong though, best to check with the guys on audi-sport.net

[audifirst]

Audi and VW in Europe introduced immobilizer very early, in order to install new cluster you need to program it, otherwise your car will shut down in seconds , you need to have 4 digit security code from both your car and new cluster , pretty much you can't disable immo without specialty tools, you might try to find someone locally who can do it for you

[SQUIZ34]

Audi and VW in Europe introduced immobilizer very early, in order to install new cluster you need to program it, otherwise your car will shut down in seconds , you need to have 4 digit security code from both your car and new cluster , pretty much you can't disable immo without specialty tools, you might try to find someone locally who can do it for you


my local garage has said he can re programme a replacement cluster to the car so thats fine however ....half the problem is sourceing one.

do i have to have the same part number cluster or is there a compatible unit that will fit ? part number is 8D0 919 036.
as long as i have the legal requirements eg speedo etc then im happy with that for the time being.
the mot is due very very soon and im running out of time to find one that isnt asking me to get a mortage first.
many thanks

[audifirst]

my local garage has said he can re programme a replacement cluster to the car so thats fine however ....half the problem is sourceing one.

do i have to have the same part number cluster or is there a compatible unit that will fit ? part number is 8D0 919 036.
as long as i have the legal requirements eg speedo etc then im happy with that for the time being.
the mot is due very very soon and im running out of time to find one that isnt asking me to get a mortage first.

many thanks

if you have cluster one you have to stick with the same one from your year model or before, if you want to try install other clusters like 2 or 3 you have to change all the harness plugs , move the pins around, the connections are not the same

[SQUIZ34]

if you have cluster one you have to stick with the same one from your year model or before, if you want to try install other clusters like 2 or 3 you have to change all the harness plugs , move the pins around, the connections are not the same

ok i understand that bit........but.......my part number is 8do 919 036b i have found one 8d0 919 035............whats the difference? it looks identical from the front.

[audifirst]

ok i understand that bit........but.......my part number is 8do 919 036b i have found one 8d0 919 035............whats the difference? it looks identical from the front.
The last combination of number and digits indicate versions
So the one u found is older version then the one u have in the car , I can't say what the update was it could be anything u can still install it

[SQUIZ34]

thank you for that.....that isreally the answer ive been looking for. very difficult to find the replacement cluster.

[SQUIZ34]

one more thing audi if i may.

if i find one that looks the same but doesnt have the oil temp or battery meter on it...will this unit still work on my car?.......seen a couple like it and also a couple with numbers on the clock at 12 3 6 9,as they dont look the same ive steared clear of them but if they will work then might just as well get one.

many thanks

[SQUIZ34]

8D0 919 035 S
8D0 919 035 c from 1996 car
8D0 919 035 a

are 3 of ones ive seen been offered.

[audifirst]

those without oil temp and battery will work, but you need to check if the connectors are the same at the back ,

[audifirst]

8D0 919 035 S
8D0 919 035 c from 1996 car
8D0 919 035 a

are 3 of ones ive seen been offered.

any of these should be fine, 96 clusters will work in 97

[SQUIZ34]

thanks you audi...............at least that will widen my search a little more now.

[SQUIZ34]

at last.cluster arrived today..thanks for the help audi.

just have to get someone to re programme it :)

[SQUIZ34]

quick update for you all...and maybe something to debate lol

the cluster was fitted today and mot passed(after some emmision hiches)...............reprogramming not needed..........the cluster plugged straight in and worked.....immo still works nothing changed....

did i miss something about reprogramming?

[audifirst]

quick update for you all...and maybe something to debate lol

the cluster was fitted today and mot passed(after some emmision hiches)...............reprogramming not needed..........the cluster plugged straight in and worked.....immo still works nothing changed....

did i miss something about reprogramming?

that is strange it could be that immo in early cars is linked to car keys only, glad that worked for you

[GrapeBandit]

I'll ask the question here instead of starting a new thread. I have a 99 a4 1.8t and the red backlighting on the cluster is always lit, even when the headlights or parking lights are off. On my 01, it doesnt light up until i put the parking or headlights on. is this normal, or is it something the previous owner has wired like that for some strange reason??

[coolgraymemo]

Both of mine are the same.

[GrapeBandit]

Both of mine are the same.

So then all the pre-facelift b5s have a cluster with full time backlighting? Anyone? I thought that was weird the first time I noticed it. Like I said, I figured the previous owner wired it like that for some strange reason...lol

[coolgraymemo]

Well one of my cars is prefacelift and the other isn't. I think its just with cars that don't have the center screen.

[audifirst]

I'll ask the question here instead of starting a new thread. I have a 99 a4 1.8t and the red backlighting on the cluster is always lit, even when the headlights or parking lights are off. On my 01, it doesnt light up until i put the parking or headlights on. is this normal, or is it something the previous owner has wired like that for some strange reason??

it is normal, early cars before 01 had this done automatically

[GrapeBandit]

it is normal, early cars before 01 had this done automatically
what a waste of power..LOL

[djgoldeneye]

this is a very good post.

[GrapeBandit]

this is a very good thread.
fixed[up]

[trauma]

how can i fix my LED screen
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae81/trauma145/IMAG0028-1.jpg

[Dallas09]

Anyone know whether this can be changed by changing the country code? I thought I remember hearing it was possible, but now I cant find any info on it..

[FLiPSyDe71]

Is there a difference between 1997 A4 automatic cluster gauges and the manual cluster gauges? Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[audifirst]

Is there a difference between 1997 A4 automatic cluster gauges and the manual cluster gauges? Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
they are the same, cluster detects if you have manual or auto and shows appropriate information on dash

[audifirst]

how can i fix my LED screen
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae81/trauma145/IMAG0028-1.jpg

looks like bad LCD unit , need new one.

[audifirst]

Anyone know whether this can be changed by changing the country code? I thought I remember hearing it was possible, but now I cant find any info on it..

what would like to change ?

[Dallas09]

To prevent the backlight from staying on all of the time, and only coming on when the lights are on. I tried changing the country code a couple days ago and I didnt see any change..

[audifirst]

To prevent the backlight from staying on all of the time, and only coming on when the lights are on. I tried changing the country code a couple days ago and I didnt see any change..
changing country code will not change it,
it is hard wired , you would have to have wiring diagram from European car and north American car (Bentley has only north American wiring diagrams) and compare how they are wired,

[JB5]

i've been searching but have not been able to find a solid response.

i have a 96 A4 Quattro 2.8 and found a 97 A4 quattro 2.8. both have manual transmission and the clusters are very similar except for the fact that the 97 has an LCD and my 96 does not. the main difference i found is that the 97 has a 20 pin connector that goes like this:

1-Yel- Fuel consumption
2-Open
3-Open
4-Open
5-Brn/Yel- A/C Control Head
6- Blk/Brn- TCM Pin 25
7-Open
8-Open
9- Brn/Red- Coolant Level or Washer Fluid?
10-Open
11- Gry- trip computer Reset
12-Gry/Red- Radio
13-Red/Brn- Radio
14-Blu- Trip Comp
15- Red/Yel- Radio
16-Gry- Rear lamp control Unit
17-Open
18-Grn- Trip Computer
19- Red- Rear lamp control module
20-Open

my 96 A4 has an 10 pin connector. does anyone know the pin outs on these 10? and how do i know if my car came with a trip computer? what does this do?
thanks.

[audifirst]

I can't find the pinout for 8, where is the 8 pin located
I have layout for 96/97 it shows only 2 x 26 pins , 1 x 20 pin, 1 x 4 pin for cluster with Full LCD

[JB5]

I can't find the pinout for 8, where is the 8 pin located
I have layout for 96/97 it shows only 2 x 26 pins , 1 x 20 pin, 1 x 4 pin for cluster with Full LCD

you're completely right. after a closer look i have 2 x 26 pin connectors, 1 x 10 and 1 x 4 pin. my 96 cluster is without the LCD. the 97 cluster i found is with LCD and has the 20 Pin connector, where mine has a 10 Pin connector. i connected it on my car and the RPM, MPH, Fuel level all work among other things. i also would have to reset the milage since it has 60,000 more than mine.

the layout i have also shows 20. i'm just trying to fit an LCD cluster with my non LCD cluster on my A4.

[JB5]

Hi Guys,

help me understand something here. I've connected the Brown/Yellow wire that acording to my wiring diagram should be the digital outside temperature from pin 3 on may 10 pin connector to pin5 on my 20 min connector. this is what i get when i turn on my car. should i be getting the temperature or will you say my LCD is bad? sorry for the cell picture.
i have connected only pin5(outside temp) pin11, pin14, & pin18 for wiper stock (trip computer) this is all i get when i turn on the car. am i missing a ground, where would i plug it in?

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/camaralenta08/IMAG0424.jpg
thanks.

[audifirst]

lcd looks good, if you see these lines lcd is working but something is missing check the pins again, somewhere could be a wire in wrong pin

[JB5]

lcd looks good, if you see these lines lcd is working but something is missing check the pins again, somewhere could be a wire in wrong pin

I checked the pins and verified them with the correct pinouts I have. I notice that the ribbon is not in the best shape. That could be the issue. You guys know where I might find the ribbon for the 97 a4 lcd?

[audifirst]

if you had bad lcd you wouldn't get those lines , there is no ribbon available yet for these clusters, did you go through codes with vcds if anything needs to be changed
to recognized the lcd

[JB5]

lookslike i'm going to need to invest on VCDS. i just find it king of expensive since i also have to get vag tacho to change the millage to my current millage.

[audifirst]

Information revised and all the pinouts added for full size LCD for each cluster from 1996 to 2001.5 A4

[Kristure]

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss263/NeedingAnAudi/DSCN3036.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeqzpoKscoz_6BY2o6VSLRDAuHH2E06 o2_QqlzbANpIEvUpr_QjnqS3aZI

Lets say i have a cluster like this first pic, but i'd like to change it to this on the second pic. How do i exactly do this, and how much would it cost me? (Including new cluster and everything)
The car is Audi A4 1.8T 1998 and doesn't have a LCD. I would like the Digital Clock cluster.

I also wonder: Would everything work fine. In case no, what wouldn't?
EDIT: What is Immobolizer by the way?

Thanks in advance for any help.[:)]

[audifirst]

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss263/NeedingAnAudi/DSCN3036.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeqzpoKscoz_6BY2o6VSLRDAuHH2E06 o2_QqlzbANpIEvUpr_QjnqS3aZI

Lets say i have a cluster like this first pic, but i'd like to change it to this on the second pic. How do i exactly do this, and how much would it cost me? (Including new cluster and everything)
The car is Audi A4 1.8T 1998 and doesn't have a LCD. I would like the Digital Clock cluster.

I also wonder: Would everything work fine. In case no, what wouldn't?
EDIT: What is Immobolizer by the way?

Thanks in advance for any help.[:)]

immobilizer is a security feature that is programmed into ECU and cluster, if any of them is changed car will not start, it has to be reprogrammed again, but A4 B5 in North America didn't get it the rest of the world did,
the cost varies depends where you are located in North America you can get used parts and might cost you under $500 for all parts, in europe looks like you are in Norway it depends 300-600 euros, however you need to do some research if your car has immobolizer or not, buy a repair book for A4, it will give you idea how to take things apart,
when you add a cluster that is meant for newer A4 you might run to problems, compatibility issues, dashboard light flashing not recognizing modules in your car and so on,

[MantasJM_]

Hello. I got 99,5 1.8t. It has 2nd cluster with no LCD. But I have bought the 3rd with LCD from a 00 S4 b5. So now I have a problem... Tachometer doesn't work.. Does that mean that the S4 cluster had can-bus??? Can I do something to make it work?? I have spent a lot of money for it...

[audifirst]

Hello. I got 99,5 1.8t. It has 2nd cluster with no LCD. But I have bought the 3rd with LCD from a 00 S4 b5. So now I have a problem... Tachometer doesn't work.. Does that mean that the S4 cluster had can-bus??? Can I do something to make it work?? I have spent a lot of money for it...

I would check the pin layout maksure it is the same , check my first post for pin RPM signal, ,
b5 cluster uses the same signal possibly you have bad cluster but I would check the pin layout are the same

[MantasJM_]

I would check the pin layout maksure it is the same , check my first post for pin RPM signal, ,
b5 cluster uses the same signal possibly you have bad cluster but I would check the pin layout are the same

Hmm.. Ok I will check. i dunno i havent done any rewiring yet. But shouldnt tacho work and with mine pins? Or I have to rewire it? Coz what i see in the example, its totaly different pins and names of it. 2nd lcd cluster has rpm signals, 3rd one uses tachometer.. Is is the same?

[audifirst]

Hmm.. Ok I will check. i dunno i havent done any rewiring yet. But shouldnt tacho work and with mine pins? Or I have to rewire it? Coz what i see in the example, its totaly different pins and names of it. 2nd lcd cluster has rpm signals, 3rd one uses tachometer.. Is is the same?

it should work out right, if the pins are all almost identical, however the pin layout is only for cars with full LCD screen, I don't have pin layout for cars that didn't have it originally like yours there are no information provided in books I have , this information was pulled from Bentley ,
it could be you have bad cluster

[MantasJM_]

Is there any way to check if my cluster came from a car that had canbus? Coz i dunno. Seller told me the car is S4 early 00 USA. [mad] Part number: audi 8D0 920 981 B
This is the cluster that I bought: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6604523681_e0a96db2a4_b.jpg

[audifirst]

all clusters have can bus since year 2000, but not all components were using canbus, they fully implemented canbus since 2002 , but I suspect you have bad cluster or check if perhaps pin is lose in harness,

[MantasJM_]

Damn. I wanna check, just i can't find scheme of my wiring (I got 99,5 a4 1.8tq manual).. My cluster has no lcd, it just show outside temperature. So as I dont have wiring of my current cluster I can't check if the pins are all the same for the new one.. I hope that the tacho pins are different for these 2 clusters and after rewiring its gonna work. I just want it to show fuel consumption and thats it.. When I connect it to my car it shows that my doors are opened, shows that hand brake is on, shows I got airbag problem. Indeed I do! But it also shows that its not enough oil in the engine and its OK, not enough front window washer, while its OK.
P.S. I am using original green and blue plugs without rewiring. I dont have the grey one yet, so I test cluster without the grey one, as I think this shouldn't affect tachometer.

[maXie]

Hi AUDIFIRST, please help me out.. I have 2000 Audi A4 1.8 from your chart it's cluster no.2 without LCD, just brought S4 cluster from USA for swapping. but problem is old cluster is immobilized while new is not. The car won't start, die after 1sec. so now i changed back to original one. Is there any ways to get this S4 cluster work on my car? Love the cluster!

[audifirst]

Hi AUDIFIRST, please help me out.. I have 2000 Audi A4 1.8 from your chart it's cluster no.2 without LCD, just brought S4 cluster from USA for swapping. but problem is old cluster is immobilized while new is not. The car won't start, die after 1sec. so now i changed back to original one. Is there any ways to get this S4 cluster work on my car? Love the cluster!

unfortunetly not. You can't use this cluster in your car, You have to get cluster with immobilizer ., then you need Login code from your original cluster and from replacement, then you need to match the keys and replacement cluster to your vehicle.

[QuattroGinger]

good thread. lots of information regarding clusters. i'll be soldering in new LCD in my 01 tomorrow. wish me luck.

[maXie]

unfortunetly not. You can't use this cluster in your car, You have to get cluster with immobilizer ., then you need Login code from your original cluster and from replacement, then you need to match the keys and replacement cluster to your vehicle.

thank for the quick reply.. poor me but still finding the way.
-Immobilizer where is it located in the cluster, can i take it out and install to S4 (no immo)? just curious but think not worth to try.
-Should I shut down the Immo function from ECU, will it be silly choice? may try (;

[gigity2008]

I have cluster 1 and i need to install cluster 2 to run the 2.8 30v

Intead of worrying about the immo cant i just use VAGTACHO to read the epprom and program my existing keys to the new cluster?

Ive used the program before with my current cluster with no problem.. surly if i change to cluster 2 i can reprogram to suit?

[audifirst]

thank for the quick reply.. poor me but still finding the way.
-Immobilizer where is it located in the cluster, can i take it out and install to S4 (no immo)? just curious but think not worth to try.
-Should I shut down the Immo function from ECU, will it be silly choice? may try (;

the immobilizer can not be moved , it is program to original cluster
Best solution will be to kill immobilizer in your ECU to make it work, then you will not have to worry about immobilizer

[audifirst]

I have cluster 1 and i need to install cluster 2 to run the 2.8 30v

Intead of worrying about the immo cant i just use VAGTACHO to read the epprom and program my existing keys to the new cluster?

Ive used the program before with my current cluster with no problem.. surly if i change to cluster 2 i can reprogram to suit?


If your car came with Cluster 1 best to stay with the same type cluster, you will run to a lot of problem with trying to install cluster 2, there are different modules that were changed when Audi did upgraded for that model and you will get partially working cluster ,, plus you will need to change the cluster plugs as they are not the same, and do rewiring.
Last year I have helped someone trying to accomplish that at the end the speedo, tachometer and fuel gauge were not working, the airbag , abs were not communicating with new cluster ,
You are welcome to try
as regards to vagtacho, that software is very limited what it can do , I never used that software to program to keys, so I can't say if this can be succeeded . I used VCDS or Vagcom..

[mysman]

It looks like the early type 1 cluster has pigtail connections for the battery voltage and oil temp gauges. I'm thinking these could be straight analog inputs from the sensors? I'm asking because I'd like the retrofit those gauges to my B5 Passat cluster. I bought an used type 3 cluster a few years back for this purpose, but those gauges are stepper type driven from the PCB. Thx.

[Gberg888]

why hello good thread!

[QuattroGinger]

highly recommend not attempting this yourself. mine ended as a FAIL. stripped 5 pieces of tin off the board completely. 3 of which went to nothing but 2 are used and sticking straight up now. ended up as a mess. had like 6 lines before, now have 0. just going to mail out and hope they cam repair my f-up

[audifirst]

It looks like the early type 1 cluster has pigtail connections for the battery voltage and oil temp gauges. I'm thinking these could be straight analog inputs from the sensors? I'm asking because I'd like the retrofit those gauges to my B5 Passat cluster. I bought an used type 3 cluster a few years back for this purpose, but those gauges are stepper type driven from the PCB. Thx.


I saw few years back I can't recall if it was passatworld or german forum someone bought two small gauges for temp and battery and integrate them into the passat cluster in the area where temp/battery is on audi cluster, and tap them into the harness.
Other solution is to get pod gauges and mount them into pillar.
probably that will be cheap solution,
you be asking for a lot more work if you want to integrate them into board

[mysman]

I saw few years back I can't recall if it was passatworld or german forum someone bought two small gauges for temp and battery and integrate them into the passat cluster in the area where temp/battery is on audi cluster, and tap them into the harness.
Other solution is to get pod gauges and mount them into pillar.
probably that will be cheap solution,
you be asking for a lot more work if you want to integrate them into board

That's the same conclusion I came to when I looked at this a while back, but very few gauges available that match and fit behind the bezel. We're talking mini-gauges (1-1/2"). As far as remote mounting, yeh, I plan on an EGT and AFR gauge for the pillar. The oil temp, voltage, etc., could go in the cubby, but I would prefer them in the cluster where they belong.

[InSearchOf...]

Awesome information, Audifirst!

I have a 1998.5 A4 without LCD (reading the thread it's a cluster 2). I would like to upgrade to a LCD A4 or S4 cluster. Does anyone have the exact part number to order?

FYI I'm swapping because my car was imported from Canada so I need to switch from KM/h to MPH gauges.

Optimally I'd like to buy a conversion kit which has the correct MPH and KPH reading for the speedometer - irrtatingly enough you can't just take the overlay from a US car and swap it since the position of the needle is different for the same speed between the US and Canadian ones.


Thanks.

[audifirst]

if you want to go with digial clock cluster 3
8D0 920 980 C or any last letter can be used and last 3 digits can be used
if you want to stay with analog clock it will start with 8D0 919 920 , the last 3 digits can be different and different letter code

[wretchedwrench]

Hello, while new to this forum I've been following this thread for a while. I have a 96 A4 2.8 quattro, with tach and speedo issues, specifically intermittant operation of the aforementioned guages. Local garage could not duplicate the issue when the car was there of course, so I replaced the cluster with a used type 1 cluster from a 97 a4, all guages working ok, but threw an airbag light on installation which I thought would be a coding issue. Had the 97 dash coded to my car still have airbag light. Garage says code 01025 (indicator light malfunction). Obivously the light is functioning though I have no idea if the circuit is shorted or grounded or wether the there is a cluster malfunction or if the air bag module has malfunctioned. Of course I have no idea if there is a direct correlation to the light and the new cluster, except that it wasn't there before!
Worst of all I have no vagcom which I presume means that even if I find the cause of the light, like reinstalling the oringnal cluster, that I will have have someone clear the code from the module in order for the light to turn off?[confused] The oringinal cluster was a VDO. Any thoughts hints would be great! TIA

[audifirst]

Hello, while new to this forum I've been following this thread for a while. I have a 96 A4 2.8 quattro, with tach and speedo issues, specifically intermittant operation of the aforementioned guages. Local garage could not duplicate the issue when the car was there of course, so I replaced the cluster with a used type 1 cluster from a 97 a4, all guages working ok, but threw an airbag light on installation which I thought would be a coding issue. Had the 97 dash coded to my car still have airbag light. Garage says code 01025 (indicator light malfunction). Obivously the light is functioning though I have no idea if the circuit is shorted or grounded or wether the there is a cluster malfunction or if the air bag module has malfunctioned. Of course I have no idea if there is a direct correlation to the light and the new cluster, except that it wasn't there before!
Worst of all I have no vagcom which I presume means that even if I find the cause of the light, like reinstalling the oringnal cluster, that I will have have someone clear the code from the module in order for the light to turn off?[confused] The oringinal cluster was a VDO. Any thoughts hints would be great! TIA

code 01025 is error related to either bad connection to cluster or the cluster you got is bad

[wretchedwrench]

code 01025 is error related to either bad connection to cluster or the cluster you got is bad

Thanks for your reply! It would suck if the new cluster is toast, as everthing else works perfectly now that it's been coded to my car! So far unimpressed by the local garage. Any insight on this circuit operation? How is b+ to light fed? Is ground controlled via srs module or is it the other way around? Sorry so many q's lost my Bently manual in a harddrive crash have yet to find the disk! Guess I need to get into a vagcom so I can clear my codes as I go.[headbang]

[audifirst]

Thanks for your reply! It would suck if the new cluster is toast, as everthing else works perfectly now that it's been coded to my car! So far unimpressed by the local garage. Any insight on this circuit operation? How is b+ to light fed? Is ground controlled via srs module or is it the other way around? Sorry so many q's lost my Bently manual in a harddrive crash have yet to find the disk! Guess I need to get into a vagcom so I can clear my codes as I go.[headbang]

is there more codes beside 01025 from airbag? best way to scan it yourself with VAGCOM to see if there is more codes.
ligth is fed through pin 9 on blue connector one wire from airbag module
either the cluster is bad, or the wire got pinched or airbag module is defective
I would reinstalled the old cluster to check if light comes back, worst case scenario get another cluster , but I would get vagcom scan the airbag and check for any other codes and then erase it , and see if it will come back

[wretchedwrench]

is there more codes beside 01025 from airbag? best way to scan it yourself with VAGCOM to see if there is more codes.
ligth is fed through pin 9 on blue connector one wire from airbag module
either the cluster is bad, or the wire got pinched or airbag module is defective
I would reinstalled the old cluster to check if light comes back, worst case scenario get another cluster , but I would get vagcom scan the airbag and check for any other codes and then erase it , and see if it will come back

I would have done the old cluster reinstall and recheck for codes as well, the tech may well have done as well, as he said he had attempted this with the same results, but I doubt he reinstalled the bulb for the air bag light as I had removed it from the original cluster so I could transfer it to the second cluster. Of course that's an assumption on my part, wether he did or did not.
Now where this relates to this thread IMO is that the new (used) cluster is identical to cluster type 1 ,I believe it is not a vdo cluster as it says UK NSI on the front where the original cluster says VDO. Also while the original cluster has the blue, yellow and black connectors it has a grey colored back that is slightly different than the cluster 1. I will post a photo as soon as I discover how it's done here.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_2063a.jpg (http://www.audizine.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=66415&title=rear-of-instrument-cluster-96-a4&cat=500)
I am planning on checking to see if there are other airbag codes as that would certianly help determine if there are other issues, as I also thought about the module being bad as well but there again the only thing I changed was the cluster. "Last thing in first thing out"

[wretchedwrench]

Just an update to my last post. I was able to borrow a scan tool (not a vagcom) so I did some poking around. The 01025 code is the only code in memory. I reinstalled my old cluster (grey back) with a bulb in the proper place and cleared the code. No light no code. So my conclusion is either this particular cluster is bad or there is an incompatibility issue with the white back cluster. Would like to check wiring diagrams but, I still don't have my bentley manual loaded because it won't work on win7 without up grading to pro!

[audifirst]

I would say cluster is a problem ,
did you check code in airbag is the same as on your 96 cluster ?
96 and 97 have the same wiring

[wretchedwrench]

I would say cluster is a problem ,
did you check code in airbag is the same as on your 96 cluster ?
96 and 97 have the same wiring
I agree with the cluster being an issue, not sure what you meant by "did you check code in airbag is the same as on your 96 cluster". With my original cluster installed with the bulb installed there are no trouble codes.
If your are refering to cluster coding that was supposedly done at my local shop but there again who knows since the tech didn't know enough to install the bulb in the old dash! LOL I'm not sure if the scan tool can do coding of the modules and I'm not entirely familiar with the scan tool's capabilities as it's not my own.

[audifirst]

you got to shop for another cluster .

[wretchedwrench]

Just as follow up, I recently aquired another '96 VDO (gray back) cluster, problem solved no more airbag light. Not sure if the second cluster was fubared or just incompatable with my car seeing as it was a different manufacturer. Thanks for allowing me to hijack your thread, my apologies for doing so!

[Alloutofdonuts]

I had a questions about the connectors if you have time for a few. My car is a '99 Avant tip without the the LCD and it looks like it has the #2 cluster, but the 'middle' connector is black, not red. Is it safe to go by the pin out of the red connector or is it a split of the 2nd/1st clusters?

I installed an LCD cluster from an S4('00) tip that I'm parting. I imagine the RPMS are off but most things on it work or seem to work. Right turn signal doesn't work(on the cluster only) but I can see in the pin out you have here it's in the #7 in the green connector on the 3rd cluster and #2 in the blue connector on the 2nd cluster. Also the airbag light is on and I'm not sure the oil temp gauge is workin, as well as the air temp. & gear selector is not diplayed. I think I can figure out the pinouts and what needs to be spliced but not sure which pin out to go by. I cut the grey connector with a pigtail of harness from the parts car and will splice it into the black connector wiring but I'm just not sure what pinout to go by for the cars wiring? Looks like the red & black pin outs are similar with afew exceptions not sure what all matters and what doesn't?

Also, if I choose not to get the selector switch wiper arm and wire that up, are there other things that will not operate other than the menu options?

Oh 1 more, is the pin out left to right, top to bottom?

[audifirst]

unfortunetly there is no wiring diagram for your cluster without LCD, Bentley and other materials don't have pin layout for the black connector, comparing those with LCD,
only solution is to trace wires around.

you will have to add some wires to make new connections as those wires do not exist in your vehicle or are not wired to sensors or modules.

in order to change menus on lcd you need to change wiper arm I don't know any other solution for that. Otherwise it will be showing one section of the menu.

I always recommend to stay with cluster from the same year car is built , most likely you will run to less issues with compatibility , then going to cluster from another year model, this will eliminate issues with you hunting around to resolving issues. in 2000 they change things around and some options might not be compatible, or cluster might not understand and warning or icon will be activated
each connector is marked with numbers from 1 to 32 on the connector it self for easy identification and matching to wiring diagram

[Alloutofdonuts]

Thanks for the reply. Not what I wanted to hear but good to know. Glad I didn't start hacking the wires lol!

[UltraAleks]

Hi .
I have a question and it would be great if someone having same cluster can answer me.
My car is 1999.5 AUDI A4. With cluster 2 with LCD display.
Now when I open car trunk I can see a LCD display showing car with flashing trunk, so it shows that car trunk is opened . But when I open any of the doors it doesn't show on the LCD display.
Is this a malfunctioning or it's just a way they made this cluster 2. It's not making any sense to show only if car trunk is opened and not the doors too.

Also sub-question is it a lot of trouble and wiring to switch to cluster 3 and make this feature work , as I know that cluster 3 shows when doors are opened on their LCD displays.


Thanks, Aleksandar

[RArroyo]

Hey guys having a problem with cluster swap. It is a 2000 audi A6 and the lcd screen says "depress clutch pedal before starting" on an automatic car. Can i change this with some coding somewhere?

Thanks,
Rey

[audifirst]

Hey guys having a problem with cluster swap. It is a 2000 audi A6 and the lcd screen says "depress clutch pedal before starting" on an automatic car. Can i change this with some coding somewhere?

Thanks,
Rey

remove and reinstall cluster no connection is detected , there is no coding as far I know

[audifirst]

Hi .
I have a question and it would be great if someone having same cluster can answer me.
My car is 1999.5 AUDI A4. With cluster 2 with LCD display.
Now when I open car trunk I can see a LCD display showing car with flashing trunk, so it shows that car trunk is opened . But when I open any of the doors it doesn't show on the LCD display.
Is this a malfunctioning or it's just a way they made this cluster 2. It's not making any sense to show only if car trunk is opened and not the doors too.

Also sub-question is it a lot of trouble and wiring to switch to cluster 3 and make this feature work , as I know that cluster 3 shows when doors are opened on their LCD displays.


Thanks, Aleksandar


Get vagcom and scan Central locking section, and report if any codes are stored..

[gmx]

Cluster 3, 32 pin grey connector.

Anyone know where pin 5 & 6 terminate or come from?

I need to splice in to can hi / lo (comfort) but don't want to do it literally behind the cluster...

[ddillenger]

Just an FYI, you can change the fuel tank size in the cluster so that an a6 unit reads properly in an a4 and vice versa. In measuring blocks start poking around. If anyone needs help I'll find it and post some screenshots, but it says something along the lines of adjust fuel level, if tank is full but not reading as such you can adjust this.

[audifirst]

Cluster 3, 32 pin grey connector.

Anyone know where pin 5 & 6 terminate or come from?

I need to splice in to can hi / lo (comfort) but don't want to do it literally behind the cluster...

These two connect to radio

[audifirst]

Just an FYI, you can change the fuel tank size in the cluster so that an a6 unit reads properly in an a4 and vice versa. In measuring blocks start poking around. If anyone needs help I'll find it and post some screenshots, but it says something along the lines of adjust fuel level, if tank is full but not reading as such you can adjust this.

I have played with that area and eeprom is holding the values for fuel, what you can adjust with vagcom is the fuel economy how it is calculated and displayed on the screen

[ddillenger]

I don't think so. Consumption calculations are done in the ecu (AFAIK KVB-fuel consumption and FKVA-conversion factor for consumption display) and relayed to the cluster. Changing the channels I'm speaking of changed the reading of my gauge. I started with half a tank and told the cluster the tank was full, it responded by changing the displayed value to full.

Regardless, simply reading the cluster eprom from an a4 and transferring that data to an a6 cluster will effectively eliminate any issues.

[gmx]

These two connect to radio

Even for pre-can(comfort) cars?
Here's a diagram of my(euro) version of the headunit, I haven't actually checked the pins:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/h8cak/Old.jpg

Here is concert II from 8P A3(euro):
http://obrazki.elektroda.net/29_1234876495.jpg


If they go straight to radio, I guess I will have to check first if there is anything present on pin 5 & 6 as well as the existing headunit plugs and do some tracing. Thanks!

[audifirst]

Even for pre-can(comfort) cars?
Here's a diagram of my(euro) version of the headunit, I haven't actually checked the pins:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/h8cak/Old.jpg

Here is concert II from 8P A3(euro):
http://obrazki.elektroda.net/29_1234876495.jpg


If they go straight to radio, I guess I will have to check first if there is anything present on pin 5 & 6 as well as the existing headunit plugs and do some tracing. Thanks!

last models of B5 had pre-wired CANBUS I don't think they used it match, only for illumination between radio and cluster,

[audifirst]

I don't think so. Consumption calculations are done in the ecu (AFAIK KVB-fuel consumption and FKVA-conversion factor for consumption display) and relayed to the cluster. Changing the channels I'm speaking of changed the reading of my gauge. I started with half a tank and told the cluster the tank was full, it responded by changing the displayed value to full.

Regardless, simply reading the cluster eprom from an a4 and transferring that data to an a6 cluster will effectively eliminate any issues.

I don't want to argue maybe you know better, I have tested few possibilities with values (fuel pump sends signal in ohms value to cluster and ecu which then it is translated to gauge and display, eeprom holds values that are associated wi each setting) when I looked further at making A6 cluster work in A4 , fuel and illumination and code were different, I didn't play with these option much as I recommend to use the same cluster as your model to avoid any possible communication issue

You can load the eeprom but you will not have functional illumination , as A4 used knob to control illumination, A6 cluster is control from separate switch and there are few changes on circuit board to accommodate that

[ddillenger]

You are correct, I didn't think about the illumination. Great write up BTW.

[audifirst]

You are correct, I didn't think about the illumination. Great write up BTW.

Thanks [up]

[.Mad Hatter.]

Bumping this with a question. How difficult would it be to wire a pre facelift s4 cluster (cluster 2) into a 97 a4 (cluster 1) assuming I got the wiring and plugs from the s4?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Corrado_Guy]

Bumping this with a question. How difficult would it be to wire a pre facelift s4 cluster (cluster 2) into a 97 a4 (cluster 1) assuming I got the wiring and plugs from the s4?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I haven't done this but after reading this thread it seems that others have tried this before with only partial success and didn't get everything working. It sounds like your best chance would be with cluster 2 which pretty much looks like cluster 1, it would seem someone got this working but had errors with other components not being recognized. I think cluster 3 is the hardest because it uses CAN and screws with things if the ECM for the motor is not present. It may have something to do with the immobilizer as well, although this is not used in North America it is present in the ECM and it is in a disabled state. I was trying to do a code dump of a ME7.5 ECM I bought and it keeps bitching about not being able to find the cluster and it also has an issue with the CAN bus. This is from an ECM that is plugged into a test rig sitting on my kitchen table with only the K line, power, and ground attached to it.

As described in this thread (I just read the whole thing to answer your question) and there are a lot of different control modules used in the 2000+ models than are not present in yours which is going to cause the communication issues detailed in this thread. Some thing such as the RPM signal are also sent to the cluster in a different way and are not going to work on cluster type 1. The ABS module, CCM module, airbag module, and the ECM all need to communicate with the cluster and the cluster will expect them to communicate in a certain way which is not going to happen with the earlier electronics. From what I have read of others trying this to make it work you would have to upgrade pretty much most of the wiring in the car including the engine to get all of this to communicate properly and work. Maybe you will have better luck but it looks like the electrical has changed enough that this is not a simple matter of switching a few wires and having it work.

[.Mad Hatter.]

Unfortunately I think you're right. Its not worth it to have it half function.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Corrado_Guy]

Unfortunately I think you're right. Its not worth it to have it half function.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Did you ever think about using a totally different cluster? There are a lot of clusters such as the Stack cluster that would probably be easier to work and because you don't have an immobilizer you wouldn't have too much issues getting it to work, or less than the newer factory cluster anyway. If you made a nice bezel for it something like this would look pretty hot....

http://image.hondatuningmagazine.com/f/features/htup_1206_1994_honda_civic_ex/36179207++w750+ar1/htup-1206-11+1994-honda-civic-EX+stack-cluster.jpg

[.Mad Hatter.]

That is kind of cool. I never thought about it as I was thinking of keeping OEM.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[audifirst]

Bumping this with a question. How difficult would it be to wire a pre facelift s4 cluster (cluster 2) into a 97 a4 (cluster 1) assuming I got the wiring and plugs from the s4?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

it will required a lot of rewiring but not everything will be work, I know two people who I help getting info they needed, at the end it was's working , the oil temp and coolant temps were not working, Fuel always was showing empty at half full, the speedometer was working but tachometer wasn't, and numerous errors related instrument cluster not compatible with modules in the car,,

[.Mad Hatter.]

Geez...that's a lot of issues. I appreciate the replies guys. Certainly not going to pick that cluster up.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[ChrisMaher2007]

Can i replace a cluster type 3 with cluster type 2?

My broken cluster has 2 connections. blue and green. Not sure if its even type 3 but has digital clock and is from 2000.5

New cluster has Blue, green and red in middle ( cluster type 2)

when swapped the dimmer is right down and doesnt work at all. can barely make out lcd and mileage.

I understand i need to code keys aswell but ill deal with that later if i can.

[audifirst]

Can i replace a cluster type 3 with cluster type 2?

My broken cluster has 2 connections. blue and green. Not sure if its even type 3 but has digital clock and is from 2000.5

New cluster has Blue, green and red in middle ( cluster type 2)

when swapped the dimmer is right down and doesnt work at all. can barely make out lcd and mileage.

I understand i need to code keys aswell but ill deal with that later if i can.

My recommendation is always to stay with the same cluster type from the same model A4=A4, A6=A6

however it is your decision to convert it, it will require some rewiring to be done to make it work but not 100% guaranteed everything will be working , as some modules are not wired to the cluster, so be prepared to spend some time wiring it up ..

[ChrisMaher2007]

My recommendation is always to stay with the same cluster type from the same model A4=A4, A6=A6

however it is your decision to convert it, it will require some rewiring to be done to make it work but not 100% guaranteed everything will be working , as some modules are not wired to the cluster, so be prepared to spend some time wiring it up ..

I have been looking for a matching part for months now and nothing is around. This is all i could find. 30 bucks off a breaker so not a huge deal if it doesnt work money wise but ill have to search again.

Is there any adapter i could buy to go in the red connection or what can i do about that? Also mileage and lcd is really really dim. Is that broken or whats happening? I see theres a dimmer on left stick but doesnt seem to do anything.

Also part number is VDO and old one i dont think is. Does that make a difference?

[audifirst]

I have been looking for a matching part for months now and nothing is around. This is all i could find. 30 bucks off a breaker so not a huge deal if it doesnt work money wise but ill have to search again.

Is there any adapter i could buy to go in the red connection or what can i do about that? Also mileage and lcd is really really dim. Is that broken or whats happening? I see theres a dimmer on left stick but doesnt seem to do anything.

Also part number is VDO and old one i dont think is. Does that make a difference?

In europe Audi used Bosch , magneti marelli and VDO,
What is the part number of the cluster, if the part starts with 4B0 then you got A6 cluster and if you can not change illumination with knob then most likely you got A6 cluster, A6 cluster using separate switch to change illumination

[ChrisMaher2007]

Part number for cluster is 8D0 919 930 JX.

Broken cluster is 8D0 919 035 A

[audifirst]

Part number for cluster is 8D0 919 930 JX.

Broken cluster is 8D0 919 035 A

So we can exclude that you have correct cluster, ,
Mileage LCD could have two issues, either the illumination LED burned out or the LCD in self failed the sealing components between two glasses failed , in that case LCD needs to be replaced, but before doing anything you need to verify if the illumination works , get a flashlight and point at the speedometer side under 0km/h and check if the illumination on all LCD and cluster increases, if it does get brighter then LED do work, LCd is bad, just need to replaced from other cluster , secondly you mention the knob does not change illumination , could be the dimmer switch bad

[Igor_VDM]

Hello,

My name is Igor and this is my first post here. First I would like to say hello to all members.
I live in Brazil, but Audis are not very common here (most cars are very bad here), so it is a little difficult to find information about them. I own a German 2000/2001 B5 Audi A4 2.4 V6 30v with 5 speed auto transmission. The 2.4 engine is rare in most countries, but most parts are common to the 2.8 V6 30v engine.
I have a different issue, and I searched a lot for it but I could not find any replies, as my problem is the opposite of what I could find.
My CEL (Check Engine Light) is not working, it never turns on when I turn the ignition on. All other lights are working, including the EPC light. When I bought the car, almost two years ago, that bothered me a bit, but after scanning the car and finding no engine codes I relaxed a bit. I also found two other A4s, but 2002 with the 3.0 V6 engine that also only had the EPC light, so I thought that would be a configuration used in Brazil.
After almost two years I started having some fault codes, including the oxygen sensors, and no lights came on, so now I am sure there is something wrong.
Recently I bought a genuine Ross-tech interface. So I tested the leds in my dashboard, and all of them light up, including the CEL, during the output test. Also there are no fault codes in the instruments. I also tried changing the instrument country code to USA, but still no light. Except for the CEL light, the cluster works flawlessly, including the FIS.
The wiring seemed untouched, including the external wrap Audi. Anyway, I thought someone could have cut the CEL wire, but Ross-tech told me that it comes in the CAN-Bus wire, so I would have a code for that.
I checked the wiring diagram (my dashboard is cluster #3), and I found that pin#14 in green connector is marked as "CHECK", which I thought would be for the CEL. I pulled the terminal and reconnected the other three connectors. When testing the #14 wire (Yellow/brown) with a multimeter, I found no voltage at all. I tested as if it was both negative or postitive.
I didn´t test the cluster outside the car, as I was affraid of frying some circuits, and finding another cluster in Brazil would be very, very difficult.
Can anyone help or give any suggestions? This is not really a big issue, as I have the scan tool, but I would like to have everything working as it should.

Regards,

[ddillenger]

There is a way to turn the CEL off inside the ecu software. If you have a way to pull the file I'll take a look, although I can't see why this would be done.

[Igor_VDM]

Hello,

Thanks a lot for replying so quickly. Unfortunately, In Brazil a lot of people would do that in order to hide issues with the engine, including some bad technicians that want to get customer to stop complaining about the warning light.
What leads me to think that this is done frequently in Brazil is that it is the third A4 that I see with a deactivated CEL.
An extra information/curiosity. Gasoline here is very bad, high sulfur levels and also has anything between 20% and 30% of Anhydorus Alcohol in all of our automotive gasoline (yes, our government changes the percentual). This could lead to a lot of lean code errors in imported cars that didn´t have the ECU properly adapted. Mine was purchased in an official dealership and it was supposed to be adapted to our gasoline, and as expected didn´t give any codes for almost 2 years.

What exactly do you need? Can it be done using a fully registered VCDS?

Below is the engine scan I made a few days ago.
Remarks, the fault was caused by a disconnected battery and was cleared already;
I omitted the last digits of my VIN and Immo ID;
The instrument was set as Japan LHD, to give fuel economy in km/l, at first was set as Rest of the World, and the CEL wasn´t working already.

============
Monday,10,June,2013,15:31:04:13830
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5
Data version: 20121222



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

VIN: WAUAE48D31Axxxxxx Mileage: 57600km/35790miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Part No: 3B0 907 552 AD
Component: 2.4L V6/5V G01 0001
Coding: 04551
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 66C368520251CB28BB0
WAUAE48D31Axxxxxx AUZ7Z0Yxxxxxxx

1 Fault Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 35-00 - Voltage too Low
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 8D0 920 932 G
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D12
Coding: 02562
Shop #: WSC 00006
VCID: 2C57DA7ADC3D3178AD4
WAUAE48D31Axxxxxx AUZ7Z0Yxxxxxxx

No fault code found.


Regards,

[Igor_VDM]

Hello again,

I have some news.
Ross-tech said that if my car has the yellow/brown wire, than in my car the CEL signal does not come in the CAN-bus wire. It should light the (K149 - "Warning Light for Motor Electronic"), which I conclude is the CEL/MIL; and should light when grounded, but there is no voltage when I turn the ignition on.
I think the information is correct, as when I turned the ignition on without this wire in the green connector, I didn´t detect any changes in my dashboard, and also didn´t see any voltage in my multimeter coming from the yellow/brown wire. By the way, I accidentaly broke that small purple tab at the end of the connector, it is working nice without it, but I get a little disappointed when this kind of thi.
The ECU wiring still has that black wrap Audi uses in their harnesses and I didn´t want to take the wrapping out unless really necessary. Do you know which Pin is yellow/brown wire in the ECU, or at least if it is in the bigger or smaller connector? Also do you know if it enters the car through those connectors below the ECU? I could check the connections in the way to the dashboard also.
Anyway, before resume playing with the harness, I would like to make sure it is not something I could do with VCDS, or via software.
Please let mw know if I missed anything.

Regards,

[Igor_VDM]

Hi guys,

Sorry to bother again.
Does anybody have any suggestions of what should I test? I mean, bad connections between ECU and cluster, programming, etc. (there is no voltage at green connector pin#14, but the CEL turns on during VCDS output test).
I will resume checking the harness soon, but any help or tips are welcome.

Regards,
Igor,

[Kapusij]

Hi all,

This is my first post.
At first I would like to say thanks due to this topic, since it's very useful for us!

I would like to ask one quick question from the cluster specialists here!
I own an Audi A4 B5 '99 1.9TDi. It has got a simple cluster without LCD, with analog clock (Doesn't have Oil temperature, nor battery power meter).
Does anybody know, is it possible to swap that cluster into a newer one with LCD?
If so, will the fuel consumption meter, and other things work? I mean, do I need to swap the computer of the car also? Or is it built inside the cluster?

Thanks in advance,
Kapusij

[audifirst]

Hi all,

This is my first post.
At first I would like to say thanks due to this topic, since it's very useful for us!

I would like to ask one quick question from the cluster specialists here!
I own an Audi A4 B5 '99 1.9TDi. It has got a simple cluster without LCD, with analog clock (Doesn't have Oil temperature, nor battery power meter).
Does anybody know, is it possible to swap that cluster into a newer one with LCD?
If so, will the fuel consumption meter, and other things work? I mean, do I need to swap the computer of the car also? Or is it built inside the cluster?

Thanks in advance,
Kapusij

it is possible to swap, you will have to program it, and see what will work there will be some wiring required and additional parts to make it all work the way you want, fuel and coolant and battery will work the tachometer and speedometer will work the oil temp will possibility work, your car might be prewired but it is hard to say until you install it,

[Dallas09]

Hi all,

This is my first post.
At first I would like to say thanks due to this topic, since it's very useful for us!

I would like to ask one quick question from the cluster specialists here!
I own an Audi A4 B5 '99 1.9TDi. It has got a simple cluster without LCD, with analog clock (Doesn't have Oil temperature, nor battery power meter).
Does anybody know, is it possible to swap that cluster into a newer one with LCD?
If so, will the fuel consumption meter, and other things work? I mean, do I need to swap the computer of the car also? Or is it built inside the cluster?

Thanks in advance,
Kapusij

I would be really interested to see a picture of this cluster.

[98 A4 Quattro]

why does my gas gauge bounce all over? Like I can fill up and it will still say it is laying on empty with the gas light on but as soon as I move it'll say full and when I let out of the gas it'll lay on empty again. But once I drive for 5 minutes or so it'll read well from a little over 3/4 of a tank to about 1/2 then after that I can't really tell how much gas I have left because it reads all over the place or says I'm empty. I mean I do need to replace fuel pump I don't know if that affects it any and my VSS code is throwing, I replaced the speed sensor and am getting ready to replace the magnetic ring in the drive shaft area. Could my cluster be junk? it shows temperature but the rest of the big screen above it is black. I have a 98.5. Looks like the second cluster.

[_RAZIEL_]

hello!!ive got cluster3,but i buy cluster1.can i install cluster 1 to my car audi b5 2000year.thank you,sorry about my language))))

[audifirst]

hello!!ive got cluster3,but i buy cluster1.can i install cluster 1 to my car audi b5 2000year.thank you,sorry about my language))))

on short answer no, cluster 1 uses different plugs than cluster 3,

[gmx]

I am going undertaking a project to use can h/l (canbus) and connect it to my retrofitted HU for illumination & ignition functions like this DIY: http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylor68/rnseinstall.htm

Does anyone know the pin size of the harnesses at the rear of the cluster?

[_RAZIEL_]

thank you very mutch[cool]

[audifirst]

I am going undertaking a project to use can h/l (canbus) and connect it to my retrofitted HU for illumination & ignition functions like this DIY: http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylor68/rnseinstall.htm

Does anyone know the pin size of the harnesses at the rear of the cluster?

You need to get can bus emulator for this nav kufatec sell this or check on ebay otherwise there is no other way doing safely

[gmx]

I am using Concert II, not RNS-E. (no clock sync issues to solve as with RNS-E)
Don't want to pay 120 euro for something that can be done with 2 wires and some tools I will likely end up re-using. Just don't know if they are VAG specific tool or what size. Seems really small, 1mm~

[audifirst]

I am using Concert II, not RNS-E. (no clock sync issues to solve as with RNS-E)
Don't want to pay 120 euro for something that can be done with 2 wires and some tools I will likely end up re-using. Just don't know if they are VAG specific tool or what size. Seems really small, 1mm~

ok you have concert II cd player from Audi tt correct ?
you have number of issues
a) illumination doesn't work
b) doesn't turn off with ignition
c) doesn't display on cluster like old one did

you car relies on three things for communicating between cluster and original radio
a) Enable
b) Clock
c) Data

CANBUS at that time was not fully operational and will not work when you hook up to the radio I have tried on B5 and didn't work tried on C5 and it worked on 2003 + as canbus was expanded more, Audi TT as of 2002 had CANBUS used on radio so the B6 A4 as of 2002, b5 never fully started to use that system,
this section is more for cluster related issues not radio but
I have installed Concert II into my c5 A6, about 9 years ago from TT , run to the same problem, you had, though by simply wiring canbus I will get miracle and it will work, it didn't, tried some wiring magic and that didn't work either european and north america radios were made by different manufactures , bought the canbus emulator and it work it converts enable , clock and data into CAN , the radio now turns off, and illumination works as it should but doesn't display on the cluster..
so the only choice is to get Can emulator to make it work like you want, but you are welcome to try it

[gmx]

Which kufatec adapter would you recommend as I spoke to them and they couldn't give me a proper answer which I found very unreliable.
I also seen some ebay alternatives, are they worth it?

[Igor_VDM]

Hello again,

Today I took that black wrap and exposed all ECU wires. I found no cut wires and nothing unusual or strange. I also disconnected all connectors below ECU (the ones going to the car interior. There was no corrosion in the terminals, but I sprayed some contact cleaner anyway. But I didn't find the yellow brown wire that gets to the CEL in the dashboard. No luck with the CEL yet - it doesn't turn on when I turn the ignition on.
Does anybody know if the CEL wire changes its color between ECU and cluster, and if it is connected to another module before going to the cluster.
Any help is appreciated.

[Dallas09]

I doubt there is a single wire that "turns on" the CEL. The ECU communicates a problem on the communication bus to the instrument cluster which turns the CEL on I would imagine. You could try grounding the wire you suspect at the cluster and see if the CEL comes on.

[Igor_VDM]

Hello Dallas,

Ross-tech informed that if my car has a yellow/brown wire, than my CEL comes on by grounding this wire, and not in the CAN. At first I also thought the CEL would come along with the CAN BUS. Mine is a 2001 B5 Audi A4 with the 2.4 30v APS engine (not sold in the USA, but most parts are common to the 2.8 30v one).
According to the electrical scheme I found. PIN#14 on green connector is the one for the CEL. I pulled the terminal from the connector, reassembled everything and turned the car on. Nothing changed. Dashboard was working as before, flawlessly, except for the missing CEL light. I was a little affraid to ground the wire and damage something so I didn´t do this test yet. Parts are very hard to be found in Brazil, and I import most things directly from USA and UK and pay a in freight and import taxes. I would like to import direcly from Germany, but I don´t speak German and I didn´t find many online stores than export to Brazil.
I didn´t find the ECU wiring diagram for my car, but I didn´t find anything damaged, corroded and etc in the ECU harness. Everything seemed untouched.
I thought it could be some programming in the dashboard as this is the fourth A4 I see in Brazil with a non-operational CEL. If that can be done using VCDS, I would be very happy as I own a fully registered VCDS. By the way. There are no error codes in my dashboard.

Thanks a lot for replying!
Igor

[Igor_VDM]

Hello Dallas and everyone,

I've tried grounging pin#14 and nothing happened. At least nothing was fried in the process. But I only had the blue connector connected, which suplies power to the entire cluster if I am not mistaken. Of course, several codes were thrown due to the missing gray and green connectors. ABS and airbag lights remained lit, along with several others in the FIS.
Today I've found something really strange. I've disconnected one of the oxygen sensors to force the CEL to go on. I confirmed that two codes were thrown in the Engine module; but when I tried the OBD2 menu in VCDS, there were no codes, and I checked the readiness and it stated my CEL(MIL) was off , and it should report to be on. Did anybody else have the same situation when accessing the generic OBD2 port against the other one?
I am lost. Not sure if it should be wiring, bad cluster, bad ECU, ECU programming or anything else. Hope it is not ECU, as the ones that come to Brazil are reprogrammed to use gasoline with 22% to 30% anydhrous alcohol (mine has a 179 in channel #10 - fuel trim. Expected as it should run richer, not sure if this was the only change). By the way, according to the best ECU technician in my city, my ECU is ok - not sure if he is right.
During the output test in VCDS, the CEL lights up.
Should I double check anything?

Regards,

[LatvianGuy]

Hallo all.

Nice to be a part of this community.
I have fallowed this thread for a while, but i haven't found the answers what i needed.
First of all. I'm having a 96' Audi A4 with 1.8 20v engine, and automatic 4-speed transmission.
No immo, European version. My old cluster, didn't had LCD, it had 4 big lights in the center, without oil temp, and battery voltage gauges.
Cluster manufacture date is 96, it's VDO cluster with 10 pin black connector.

My New cluster is from 1997 car, but the manufacture date of cluster is 95 (Starange isn't it?). It's also VDO with LCD. It has 20 pin connector.

Also i'm having a new wiper arm with lcd control buttons. I know that i must buy a new connector, rechange pins. But what should i do with the sensors that i'm not having, for example, oil temp etc. should i just iron them to the ground?? or 12v?
Also i'm not interested to connect wires with HU, couse i'm having an aftermarket HU.

Oh, and also should my car and cluster, will accept new washer fluid tank with level sensor? or i should just forget about this feature.

Also the same with bulb break indicator, does my ecu accepts it, or i really have some bulb damaged?


Because now i have connected my new cluster, but it shows only abs fault, and bulb fault?


I know, that you all are waiting, for pictures with my old cluster (i saw that somebody was interested in non-lcd cluster images). I will add them a bit later.

oh, here is pinout for 10-pin connector, what i have found

Pre 8/97 (This means you have a blue & a yellow connector on the back of your instrument cluster)
Pin 1 - Black/Red - Power
Pin 2 - Nothing
Pin 3 - Brown/Yellow - A/C Control Head (Outside Temperature)
Pin 4 - Grey/Blue or Grey/Yellow - Instrument Cluster Combination Processor (Pin 19 on blue connector)
Pin 5 - Nothing
Pin 6 - Brown - Ground
Pin 7 - White/Blue - Instrument Cluster Combination Processor (Pin 7 on yellow connector)
Pin 8 - Black/Brown - Transmission Control Module (Gear Indicator)
Pin 9 - Brown - Ground
Pin 10 - Nothing

waiting, for your answers ASAP.
cheers.

[LatvianGuy]

Bump up.
Still waiting for answers ;)

[_RAZIEL_]

tell me please:can i use clustr 2?my original claster 3.I already changed pins in plugs.but i havent got trip computer forward,trip computer reverse and reset((((how to connect steering of the on-board computer?help me please!!!!!

[audifirst]

Which kufatec adapter would you recommend as I spoke to them and they couldn't give me a proper answer which I found very unreliable.
I also seen some ebay alternatives, are they worth it?

I haven't followed much , but get CAN Emulator for the radio that you have , there are many companies that make them and sell them on ebay...

[audifirst]

Bump up.
Still waiting for answers ;)

you need to ground the wires so the error doesn't show on the cluster , unless you start buying parts and wire them to cluster to work

[audifirst]

tell me please:can i use clustr 2?my original claster 3.I already changed pins in plugs.but i havent got trip computer forward,trip computer reverse and reset((((how to connect steering of the on-board computer?help me please!!!!!

your car came original with digital clock but no center LCD and you bought cluster with analog clock #2, you have re-wire pins to make them work you need to buy plug harness with wires that connect to red connector, and wire between the cluster and wiper arm with switch in order to change menus on the lcd, pin layout is on the first page

[_RAZIEL_]

your car came original with digital clock but no center LCD and you bought cluster with analog clock #2, you have re-wire pins to make them work you need to buy plug harness with wires that connect to red connector, and wire between the cluster and wiper arm with switch in order to change menus on the lcd, pin layout is on the first page
but my original cluster with lcd(((and ive got original wiper arm in stock 4D0 953 503 B01C

[rage385]

Anyone have any idea on how to code a cluster? I swapped a 2000 a4 (cluster type 3) with a 2000 s4 (cluster 3) and my airbag light came on. also, the rpms are not quite right. The guy i sent it to to fix the lcd was suppose to code it for me, but I am not sure if it worked.

Thanks

[audifirst]

Anyone have any idea on how to code a cluster? I swapped a 2000 a4 (cluster type 3) with a 2000 s4 (cluster 3) and my airbag light came on. also, the rpms are not quite right. The guy i sent it to to fix the lcd was suppose to code it for me, but I am not sure if it worked.

Thanks


follow this
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/audiB5.html

if you have vagcom
[Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Recode - 07]
Write down the existing coding for future reference.
Enter 5-digit code from below
[Do It!]

Look at the first two digits in the coding. Add the values for the options together to get the correct coding.

00 - No available equipment
+01 - Brakepad wear sensor warning active
+02 - Seatbelt warning active
+04 - Washer fluid level warning active (may only work with pre-2000 models)
+16 - Navigation System (non-USA models)

Look at the third digit in the coding (Market version):

0 - "Germany" 24 hour clock
1 - "Rest of World" 24 hour clock
2 - "USA" 12 hour clock
3 - "Canada" 12 hour clock

Look at the fourth digit in the coding (Cylinders):

4 - 4-cylinder
6 - 6-cylinder

Look at the fifth digit in the coding (Distance impulse multiplier):

0 - TDI Engine (non-USA models)
2 - Non-turbo Gasoline engine
4 - Turbocharged engine

So, if you want to have Seatbelt warning and washer fluid warning only in a 1999 Canadian A4 2.8, (add 00+02+04 = 06),3,6,2 = 06362.


as far of airbag goes scan the error code and see what shows up ...
if you not seen it in your old cluster check if it was open at all ;
it could be previous owner cover airbag and check engine light led light so next buyers doesn't see it that there is a problem

[rage385]

its the 01218 code that popped up. i saw the fix on the forum so I will be giving that a try next weekend. I did not see the light on my old cluster, but the code was still there when I plugged it back in.

[rage385]

UPDATE: went back into the coding and found that the place that did my lcd fix and coding coded it for a v6. Change the coding to 02244.

[Bigzed]

Hi Guys, I have been reading this thread with interest, as my A4Q 1998 pre-facelift had a dodgey LCD display and I was thinking about doing a swap.
I have cluster II, and I found the exact same cluster ( same part no.) and bought it to swap out. I have both original and donor cluster pin codes.
The original cluster has a 3 digit pin, The donor has a 4 digit pin. The value in Vag-com requires a 5 digit pin. Preceeding 0's to make up 5 digits are accepted as correct.

I have visited alot of forums to research the swap, and have followed many an article to swap out the cluster.
I followed the instructions from the Ross-tech website,
I have read and recorded the data from the original cluster, and loaded it to the donor cluster.
I have matched the donor cluster to the ecu.
I have also been able to correct the mileage of the donor cluster to match the original cluster.

I have tested and am able to restore the donor cluster to its stock state.

My issue is with the immobilzer.
I thought by loading the data from original cluster to donor cluster, this should recognise the key.
In the ODB software there is an option to learn keys, but I have not seen this being used for a cluster swap, but used for blank keys.

Have I missed a step in the procedure, does anyone know were I have gone wrong, or what I have missed.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.


I have created a new post at http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/567412-ClusterII-Swap-and-resetting-immobiliser-help-needed?p=9216533#post9216533. for this issue.

[Eivind]

Hello,

Thanks for a great guide that helped a lot when I decided to swap my cluster!

My car is a 2000 Avant quattro with the PD TDI engine (which I have recently swapped aswell). The old instrument, without extra gauges and only the half-size LCD, died a couple of weeks ago.
I bought a used one with all the bells and whistles, that have had the LCD replaced and odo reprogrammed off of eBay. I also bought a used wiper stalk with the buttons needed for the computer.

When I took the old cluster out it actually appeared to be gen. 2 (from the back side), but a quick check on ELSA showed I have the cluster 3 pin assignments. Also, there is no gray connector in my car, and the new instrument gives warning for 'bulb out', 'brake light' and 'washer fluid' as there is no provision for this.

My question is: Do anyone have part numbers for the gray 32-pin connector on the instrument and the 6-pin connector on the wiper stalk? Part number for the repair wires would have been great aswell!
Can I code some of the warnings out (guided function for coding in ODIS did not mention any of the), or should I insert wires in pins 14, 15 and 16 on the grey connector and ground them?
Should I do any other wiring for the gray connector? It seems I have CAN at the radio (brown wires), if that makes any difference.


Thanks a lot!

[NOS]

Hello all.
I have 2 questions:
1- Any way to recode A6 cluster fuel tank to work as it should on A4 (seems like it works vice-versa: 1/4 actual shows 3/4 on A6 cluster).
2- Any possiblity to get off a LCD from cluster not harming the connections?

Also, i installed Symphony II+ on my A4. With A6 cluster FIS is showing radio info as it should, with A4 cluster it doesnt :( why is that?

[audifirst]

Hello all.
I have 2 questions:
1- Any way to recode A6 cluster fuel tank to work as it should on A4 (seems like it works vice-versa: 1/4 actual shows 3/4 on A6 cluster).
2- Any possiblity to get off a LCD from cluster not harming the connections?

Also, i installed Symphony II+ on my A4. With A6 cluster FIS is showing radio info as it should, with A4 cluster it doesnt :( why is that?

answer to your first question: no
second : yes
as to radio, if that radio is from A6, it could be of two reasons CANBUS or coding, A4 B5 series didn't implement CANBUS on radio only did on A6 after 2000 or you need to check coding on A4 cluster

[Eivind]

Haven't tested it yet, but I've got the grey connector and the repair wires (I can post the part numbers, let me know if anybody needs it).
I will check the wiring diagram again, but have got the understanding that the pin inputs for bulb out warnings and washer fluid needs to be grounded.

Another thing I have noticed is that I only get the door open warning for the drivers door, and that there are separate inputs for all doors on this cluster (passenger doors on the grey connector).
Where can I get signals for the passenger doors?

The other thing I still haven't figured out is the part number for the 6 pin connector on the wiper stalk. Can anyone help please?


Thanks again for this thread!

[audifirst]

Haven't tested it yet, but I've got the grey connector and the repair wires (I can post the part numbers, let me know if anybody needs it).
I will check the wiring diagram again, but have got the understanding that the pin inputs for bulb out warnings and washer fluid needs to be grounded.

Another thing I have noticed is that I only get the door open warning for the drivers door, and that there are separate inputs for all doors on this cluster (passenger doors on the grey connector).
Where can I get signals for the passenger doors?
The other thing I still haven't figured out is the part number for the 6 pin connector on the wiper stalk. Can anyone help please?
Thanks again for this thread!

regards to wiper stalk if you check my first post the wiring for the 6 pin connector is there for each cluster.
In order to eliminate the errors on the cluster lcd, you need to ground the pins for each pin that require connection.

[Eivind]

regards to wiper stalk if you check my first post the wiring for the 6 pin connector is there for each cluster.
In order to eliminate the errors on the cluster lcd, you need to ground the pins for each pin that require connection.

Ok, thanks! I will ground those pins.
I see how the 6 pin should be wired, but I struggle to find a part number for ordering the connector housing that fits the switch.

[audifirst]

Ok, thanks! I will ground those pins.
I see how the 6 pin should be wired, but I struggle to find a part number for ordering the connector housing that fits the switch.
I do not think you need to order the 6 pin connector it is already there , there is one or two wires in that connector just need to add wires..

[Eivind]

I do not think you need to order the 6 pin connector it is already there , there is one or two wires in that connector just need to add wires..

Great! Thank you!:)

[Eivind]

Grounded wires from pins 14, 15 and 16 on the grey connector today, and got rid of the warnings. :)
I also put wires in pins 8, 9 and 10 (not in use yet), and from pins 17, 18 and 19 to the wiper switch pins 4, 3 and 1 respectively. Of course, pin 2 was also grounded. However, only the up arrow on the stalk works, arrow down and the reset button does nothing...

I am guessing the switches on the wiper stalk grounds pins 1, 3 and 4 when pushed. Measured, and found that only pin 3 (if I remember right) got ground (when arrow up was pressed).
Do you think I have a defect switch? Bought it used on eBay..

[shoptalk]

great thread, BBA reman just informed me the cluster off 2000 A4 (cluster 3) is not repairable so I am looking for a replacement. I am skeptical about buying a used one because as I read this thread there seems to be so many different issues to consider and finding an exact replacement is daunting. I have done a pretty good search for new but am not having any luck, any suggestions for sourcing would be appreciated.

[audifirst]

great thread, BBA reman just informed me the cluster off 2000 A4 (cluster 3) is not repairable so I am looking for a replacement. I am skeptical about buying a used one because as I read this thread there seems to be so many different issues to consider and finding an exact replacement is daunting. I have done a pretty good search for new but am not having any luck, any suggestions for sourcing would be appreciated.


For your model you can buy cluster from 2000 to 2001 last production year for B5 series..

[MetalMan]

Yes indeed ^^.
Basically if it has a digital clock (and is for a B5), it will work. This includes the S4 (and likely RS4) cluster. You can also have either have the mileage chip reprogrammed, or you can swap the mileage chip (called a EEPROM) from your old cluster to the new one (assuming it's still good).

[AudiholicA4]

i have a 97
and i have cluster one with clusters two oil temp gauge fuel tank gauge and engine temp gauge and the speedometer isn't in kph its mph but i have the analog clock with out the numbers, and Lcd cluster. i know its cluster one cause of the back.
would it be possible to put a 01-02 S4 cluster in there? would i have to follow the wiring list that audifirst posted in the first post?
was going to buy the S4 cluster but knew there would be a difference so wanted to research my options first.
thanks in advance!

[audifirst]

i have a 97
and i have cluster one with clusters two oil temp gauge fuel tank gauge and engine temp gauge and the speedometer isn't in kph its mph but i have the analog clock with out the numbers, and Lcd cluster. i know its cluster one cause of the back.
would it be possible to put a 01-02 S4 cluster in there? would i have to follow the wiring list that audifirst posted in the first post?
was going to buy the S4 cluster but knew there would be a difference so wanted to research my options first.
thanks in advance!

if you do read through all the posts somewhere I have answered that
Realistically I would avoid putting cluster from any newer 98+ A4 into 96,97 model, there were quite significant changes between 96,97 and 98+ a4 models, there were few that tried and gave up, some who finished and a lot of things were not recognizable by newer cluster it just consume too much time
if you up for challenge you can try it..

[hgunther]

Nice writeup! But, I am certain there is more compatability. My A4 is a early 1999 1.8T with no center LCD. I swapped a cluster from a 2000 with the LCD and everything worked fine.


(Sorry for the crap cell phone pics & flash. I also did a DIN2 swap in the car. I am a EARLY 99 )

Old cluster- stock 99 red/red illumination- analog clock ect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0099.jpg

New cluster- 2000 A4 1.8t white numbers/red needles- digital clock

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/a4robm/CIMG0100.jpg

So I am in the same boat. I have a audi a4 99.5. I have the above display cluster without LCD with the black middle plug. I a cluster 3 without IMMO. I also have the blue green and grey plugs with wires. My question is how do I proceed? Do I cut all three of my plugs and match there wires with the S4 plugs? I am worried that the colors though they may be the same are used for the same equipment. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[bhusted]

You need to match up the function of each pin rather than just going by color alone. I just recently completed the same swap and made an adapter harness so that I didn't have to cut up my car's harness. There are a lot of pins that need to be moved between the green and blue plugs. I hope you also got the wires from the gray plug to the wiper stalk for controlling the center LCD. There isn't much else on the gray plug to be used. If you PM me your email address, I can send you my spreadsheet with the mapped out pins.

[Concker]

Does anyone have the part number on the pins them self?
Aswell as the 98/99 20pin middle connector, belive its red? :)

Also is it the same pin types on the stalk connector as the cluster plugs?

[Concker]

Ok so found the connectors number: 4A0972883B

But any one remembers how you connect up the oil temp gauge on cars that dont have this stock?
From what i understand the oil level sensor and temp is the same sensor, so i guess i would need to just hook into another wire somewhere? :)

[bhusted]

The oil temp sensor and oil level sensor do not speak the same language. I've tried doing as you describe, but the oil temp gauge would just wiggle a little bit.

[delauren667]

Is this thread still running? Currently driving a 2001 Audi A6 2.7T. My cluster is not perfect, but the brake pads worn light annoys me even more. Does anybody know the pin layout to short the brake pads wear indicator light wire to ground, as described in this mod?

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/brakesensorshort.html

[audifirst]

Is this thread still running? Currently driving a 2001 Audi A6 2.7T. My cluster is not perfect, but the brake pads worn light annoys me even more. Does anybody know the pin layout to short the brake pads wear indicator light wire to ground, as described in this mod?

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/brakesensorshort.html


if the pads are worn lazy to replaced them ? if you want to drive until brake pads completely gone and don't care , just connect two wires at the hub, if you remove the wheel you will see a connector with two wires leading to pad cut the wires of the pad and reconnect the loop is closed and no more annoying warning sound..

[Cactus Avant]

Has anyone here ever replaced this cluster (1999 cluster 2 with no LCD) with a 2001 S4 Cluster successfully? Was it worth it?
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b519/sdkohli1/BD798A5C-E966-4B97-8988-06AEDB963EA0-10439-00000C77378AA1D3_zpse2e7e42e.jpg (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/sdkohli1/media/BD798A5C-E966-4B97-8988-06AEDB963EA0-10439-00000C77378AA1D3_zpse2e7e42e.jpg.html)
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b519/sdkohli1/4E22DBFA-AE07-4A97-AD93-DC57406752E0-10439-00000C7704EB62FD_zps38213f1d.jpg (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/sdkohli1/media/4E22DBFA-AE07-4A97-AD93-DC57406752E0-10439-00000C7704EB62FD_zps38213f1d.jpg.html)

Any help is greatly appreciated. Trying to decide if I should put it in or sell it

[bhusted]

I have, though I wasn't interested in the updated cluster as much as the functionality of CAN-BUS with the newer cluster and my engine swap. I created an adapter harness so that I didn't have to hack up the dash harness to make it work. There are a lot of pins that move around between the blue and green plugs. You'll lose the functionality of the oil temp sensor unless you install and wire a new oil pain with the oil level thermo sensor instead. You will also need to add the gray cluster plug and wiper switch to control the LCD.

[Cactus Avant]

I have, though I wasn't interested in the updated cluster as much as the functionality of CAN-BUS with the newer cluster and my engine swap. I created an adapter harness so that I didn't have to hack up the dash harness to make it work. There are a lot of pins that move around between the blue and green plugs. You'll lose the functionality of the oil temp sensor unless you install and wire a new oil pain with the oil level thermo sensor instead. You will also need to add the gray cluster plug and wiper switch to control the LCD.

Awesome, thanks! That helps a lot. Do you think its worth the hassle and money? I'm not planning on engine swapping or bt or anything anytime soon. I'd be happy to sell it too, but its so nice. And trip computer

[bhusted]

As I said before, I swapped it so that I could get the cluster to talk to the newer ECU. It would be much easier if you could find a cluster #2 with LCD. If you have some time and want to tinker, you can totally make it work.

[hgunther]

It's totally worth it. Bhusted helped me with the wiring. He is awesome and knows what he is talking about!

[down_n_dapper]

Also Considering doing the swap from 1999 cluster 2 with no LCD to A newer LCD Cluster, probably cluster 2 with the analogue clock still. However, my model has an immobiliser as its technically a european model (I Live in Australia, Car is a 1998 V6)

Are there any technical issues involved in the immobiliser and swapping the cluster? In calling a Parts dealer here, he said something about the EWS (Electronische WegfahrSperre-Electronic immobilizer) Not allowing the car to start without the correct cluster installed, ie my stock one which came with the car.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Bordom]

I found a 96 A4 Quattro for parts that had everything from cluster 1, but an LCD screen in provision of the standard 4 bar screens.

Wanted it badly but time + money didn't permit.

[Concker]

Also Considering doing the swap from 1999 cluster 2 with no LCD to A newer LCD Cluster, probably cluster 2 with the analogue clock still. However, my model has an immobiliser as its technically a european model (I Live in Australia, Car is a 1998 V6)

Are there any technical issues involved in the immobiliser and swapping the cluster? In calling a Parts dealer here, he said something about the EWS (Electronische WegfahrSperre-Electronic immobilizer) Not allowing the car to start without the correct cluster installed, ie my stock one which came with the car.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Look in my thread :)
I have done the swap, the immobilizer don't need the stock cluster, you just have to program your keys to the new cluster, for that you need the skc, using vag tacho

Sent fra min HTC One_M8 via Tapatalk

[down_n_dapper]

Look in my thread :)
I have done the swap, the immobilizer don't need the stock cluster, you just have to program your keys to the new cluster, for that you need the skc, using vag tacho

Sent fra min HTC One_M8 via Tapatalk

Pm'd :)

[down_n_dapper]

Im also to assume that when replacing a cluster from a car equipped with an immobilisers, a replacement cluster will have to also be equipped as such. correct?

[Concker]

Yeah your ecu needs an immobilizer to communicate with, that is inside the cluster

Sent fra min HTC One_M8 via Tapatalk

[Concker]

Hey i recived my prefacelift S4 cluster today! (White needles yay!)

I recoded it (Softcode) to match the engine/ecu no problems.
Used vag tacho to set the correct mileage, and get the skc (turned out to be 2222)

But for some reason i cannot program the keys?
Normally when you enter the skc into the cluster it self (using the sticks) or in vag com, the immobilizer should be bypassed for a short period of time,
this does not happen, so there must be some problems related to that where i cannot program my keys.
The code must be correct as any other entered code gives you an error, but using 2222 does not.

When i enter 1 or 2 in channel 21 in vag com, it just jumps back to 0, so something is blocking for programming new keys, probably related to the odd behavior of the skc input. I also tried to use vag tacho without any problems.

Any one have any clue what so ever whats wrong?
And if any one actually knows of a way to remove the immo as a whole i would kiss you!

[Eivind]

I sent my ECU away to remove immo from it. Now I have the flashing immo light, and cannot code/adapt the ECU, but it works nevertheless.
The reason I had had it removed is I swapped a newer engine and ECU in, that isn't compatible with the cluster.

One day, I plan on getting a custom tune using my old ECU, to get rid of the flashing light.

[Concker]

I sent my ECU away to remove immo from it. Now I have the flashing immo light, and cannot code/adapt the ECU, but it works nevertheless.
The reason I had had it removed is I swapped a newer engine and ECU in, that isn't compatible with the cluster.

One day, I plan on getting a custom tune using my old ECU, to get rid of the flashing light.

i have already had one of the best companies in Norway try this.
problem is that there is no software out for the 2.4 30v.

[Concker]

I did remove all the fault codes, but as soon I try to program the key with the s4 cluster I get incorrect programming fault code. But the keys is ok.

I also see that the immo id's are different
AUZ7Z0v0217625


new:

AUZ7Z0W0743133

Is the different codes the problem?

Sent fra min HTC One_M8 via Tapatalk

[audifirst]

There could be an issue with your transponder in the keys or you are doing wrong programming procedure.
ARe you using vag tacho, is this copy clone or original ? if clone you are wasting your time or possibly you have damaged the cluster when you changed the mileage with it, the key programming rarely works
When programming cluster immo always changes , it is overwritten by the immo from the cluster . this is normal
if you have vagcom here are procedure for key programming and matching the procedure is for VW but it is the same for B5 series cars.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_%28Cluster%29

[Concker]

There could be an issue with your transponder in the keys or you are doing wrong programming procedure.
ARe you using vag tacho, is this copy clone or original ? if clone you are wasting your time or possibly you have damaged the cluster when you changed the mileage with it, the key programming rarely works
When programming cluster immo always changes , it is overwritten by the immo from the cluster . this is normal
if you have vagcom here are procedure for key programming and matching the procedure is for VW but it is the same for B5 series cars.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_%28Cluster%29

Keys and software is fine, with the old a4 cluster everything works perfectly, same software used, same cables and keys. So something is communicates badly with the s4 cluster. I ended up with using an immo emulator chip yesterday.. Seems to work nicely and I can start the car regardless of having a cluster or not ;)

Sent fra min HTC One_M8 via Tapatalk

[Davdraco1]

hey guys my cluster on my 01 just stopped working today. i have no gauges and no lcd screens. all 3 of them are out. can i buy another cluster from a facelift model year and have it be a plug and play? or will i need t do something to get it to work?

[crazexr7]

hey guys my cluster on my 01 just stopped working today. i have no gauges and no lcd screens. all 3 of them are out. can i buy another cluster from a facelift model year and have it be a plug and play? or will i need t do something to get it to work?

Specifically a 2000 or 2001 cluster. It'll work but you'll have the wrong mileage. It can be programmed with vagcom somehow or send it off to k0mpressed.

[Davdraco1]

I've read about immobilizers and keys not working. Everything will be fine?

[audifirst]

hey guys my cluster on my 01 just stopped working today. i have no gauges and no lcd screens. all 3 of them are out. can i buy another cluster from a facelift model year and have it be a plug and play? or will i need t do something to get it to work?

yes you can use another cluster , however before buying verify if the fuse burn out, if the fuse is good , unplug the cluster meaning remove it and re-install after couple minutes and see if starts to work again

[BaseDrifter]

I've read about immobilizers and keys not working. Everything will be fine?

There are no immobilizers on North American B5s.

[Davdraco1]

yes you can use another cluster , however before buying verify if the fuse burn out, if the fuse is good , unplug the cluster meaning remove it and re-install after couple minutes and see if starts to work again

Your saying unplug my current cluster a few times? Also I plug the fuse for it a few times to see if it burned out. And if I do need another cluster, once I plug it in, the mileage will all adjust and everything with be fine? I did remove it yesterday for about 5 mins and the. Reinstalled. Got nothing.

[seanf86]

Your saying unplug my current cluster a few times? Also I plug the fuse for it a few times to see if it burned out. And if I do need another cluster, once I plug it in, the mileage will all adjust and everything with be fine? I did remove it yesterday for about 5 mins and the. Reinstalled. Got nothing.


the mileage will not adjust, you need a specific few programs to change it or send it off to someone who knows how.

[Davdraco1]

Are there any relays that the cluster uses? Maybe one of mine went bad.

[Nollywood]

Good thread going here, very insightful.

I have a different issue here. I purchased a 2003 Audi RS6 C5 instrument cluster, to install into my 2000 B5 A4 2.8 30V Quattro. I am aware of immobiliser issues, but right now, that is not my issue.

I trial fitted the RS6 cluster to my car (both clusters have the blue, green and grey connectors, with digital clocks). I did not attempt to start the engine, I was more interested in seeing how the RS6 cluster reacted with the B5 A4's inputs. These are my observations.

TPMS warning on LCD display, as the RS6 was equipped with Tyre Pressure Monitoring. Easy fix - install TPMS, or ground out the relevant connector wire.

Illumination is at halfway mark, and no way to increase or decrease the intensity. Again, I expected this, as I have owned a C5, and know the rheostat is external to the cluster. Another easy fix.

Fuel gauge! Now this is where things get tricky. My gas tank is just over 3 quarters full, however the RS6 cluster reports approximately a quarter full, low enough to illuminate the low-gas level on the LCD. Of course the tanks in both cars are different sizes, with the RS6 tank at least 25 litres larger, and the senders in both cars will be calibrated to match.

My question is this - can I get round this by installing the RS6 tank level rheostat, just using the float arm of the B5? Or calibrate the existing B5 tank rheostat with an additional VR (variable resistor)?

I would rather make any changes external to the cluster, as I am doing an engine swap - 4.2 V8 40V from a 2005 Audi A8 D3. The ECU has had the immobiliser defeated, hence altering the codes of the RS6 cluster will be a bad idea. The flashing key symbol will be solved by black tape over the LED, under the Rev counter dial.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance. [up]

[audifirst]

answering to some of your questions
TPMS I believe there should be a ability to change the code in coding to disable TPMS probably you have to minus number from coding to disable it,
as far of fuel gauge, it is in eeprom coding, plus the fuel pump, this might not be easy fix you might dig yourself into more issues, there are some who were able to play with coding and make changes but shortly start having other issues with other functions of cluster .. .it is your cluster ... to me it is not worth the trouble going through all this , if you have original cluster just move the face and front part of the cluster over with pointers and you do not have to do any changes to electronics..

[Nollywood]

answering to some of your questions
TPMS I believe there should be a ability to change the code in coding to disable TPMS probably you have to minus number from coding to disable it,
as far of fuel gauge, it is in eeprom coding, plus the fuel pump, this might not be easy fix you might dig yourself into more issues, there are some who were able to play with coding and make changes but shortly start having other issues with other functions of cluster .. .it is your cluster ... to me it is not worth the trouble going through all this , if you have original cluster just move the face and front part of the cluster over with pointers and you do not have to do any changes to electronics..

Thanks for your response.

I am replacing the cluster mainly due to the engine change. There is no option to soft code the current cluster for 8 cylinders (tacho). Sure, I could simply swap the RS6 dials over to the A4 unit, but that wouldn't work either. Rev counter and speedo indication will be inaccurate.