The Great Maestro 7 Tuning Suite Thread

[JumboBlack1.8]

Not at all. Have been running EV14's before this. No issues whatsoever. No spacers required with my ATP high flow fuel rail

[Wet0willy01]

Ya it seems as though you and 20vturbo have had no issue possibly do to the same rail. PM him about his file. I believe he is 2.0l AEB ID1000s likely raising rate because he had an aftermarket FPR.

[pape]

I also run ID1000's with purple caps on an apikol manifold (aeb runers) with black injector seats. They fit almost perfect with the ATP fuel rail. I did have to add a 1.5mm washer between the manifold and the fuel rail, because without the washer the injectors would be pushed in to far down the seat.

[Wet0willy01]

http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee458/wet0willy01/?action=view&current=f1253487.mp4
With 1.5mm washer


Edit- stock AMB rail and oem sized o-rings

[pape]

http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee458/wet0willy01/?action=view&current=f1253487.mp4
With 1.5mm washer


Edit- stock AMB rail and oem sized o-rings

I see, yes yours are lose. I think your fuel rail need to be a little lower so it holds the purple cap straight and it dosent woble like that. But even then I think that they will still be 2 lose

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc439/Epardo1982/IMG_9250.jpg

[Dolphin18T]

How do I explain no O2 correction at idle with a lambda of .890???

[Wet0willy01]

Do you have O2 corrections at all or just not at idle?

[Dolphin18T]

Do you have O2 corrections at all or just not at idle?

Just at idle. I have corrections everywhere else. It starts pulling fuel immediately after I show it load because it is so rich at idle. Is it possible to have the BVC so high that it won't correct at idle? It seems like I need to lower BVC but because I have no idle correction I'm not sure how much to lower it.

[Wet0willy01]

What injectors?

[Dolphin18T]

ID725's. It only started happening when I changed the BVC from my base file to what is given from injector dynamics.

[MmmBoost]

Either your injector latency values are too high, your minimum injector pulsewidth (TEMIN) is set too high, or your actual load at idle may be to low.

Most likely it is a combination of the first two.


BTW, I found that the ID725 values were too high to use in maestro. Subtract about 0.75ms from all of the values to lower the curve as a starting point. This should help things out a lot.

Also, what is your TEMIN value set at?

[Wet0willy01]

BTW, I found that the ID725 values were too high to use in maestro. Subtract about 0.75ms from all of the values to lower the curve as a starting point.

Chris do you think this will likely apply to my ID1000s as well?

[Dan[FN]6262]

Chris do you think this will likely apply to my ID1000s as well?


most likely. after Chris helped me figure out what BVC values I needed to use with the 80#s, I had to lower the values a good deal across the board until it was close to right.

[MmmBoost]

I have every reason to believe it would be the same case for the ID1000's.

Whether or not you need to reduce the curve by the same amount is not known though. It's going to take some experimenting.

[pape]

Chris do you think this will likely apply to my ID1000s as well?

Yes it does,

I run ID1000's and the BVC tables incude with the injectors are way to high for some reason

[pape]

Also once you scale the BVC down to were its better you will have to play with the curve also to get a stable AFR at diffrent voltages

this ID1000 are great injectors but verry sensitive down low do to there size. and they will work perfect if tuned correctly

[MmmBoost]

I told Chris Tapp about this....stating that ID numbers were EXACT and there should be no guess work......but he gave me some song and dance that "this is tuning.....and if it were as as plugging in values everyone would do it"

[Dan[FN]6262]

you know Chris Tapp don't fuck around.

[pape]

I told Chris Tapp about this....stating that ID numbers were EXACT and there should be no guess work......but he gave me some song and dance that "this is tuning.....and if it were as as plugging in values everyone would do it"

I also thought the same thing. The ID BVC numbers are exact the why do I have to lower them so much?
I know that there are many variables, in no way am I going to say there is something wrong with the software, because Maestro 7 is made for it to be tuned.

When I did my IC with the formula and the BVC with the ID1000c values, my idle was 10AFR. The car did run good at WOT but idle was not adjusting the AFR.

I had to lower my BVC .6-.7 to be able to get the AFR at idle to 15AFR.

[MmmBoost]

I have found my KRKTE to be dead on at 60 PSI (which is what my base pressure is before I hook up my vacuum port). The TVUB values were far too high though. I don't quite understand why.....but it was as simple as removing about 0.75 from the entire table and the car ran great. In fact after installing my injectors that was the only change I made.....and i ran it that way for a month or 2 before I decided to do a little more fine-grained tuning.

[Wet0willy01]

I'm pulling my cams and putting the stock ones back in to start my tuning. I am also ditching the ID fuel injector adapters and installing the 034 fuel rail. This will allow the 48mm injectors to fit directly to the AEB manifold. I am also adding a fuel pressure gauge to verify my fuel pressure after the 034 drop in pump install.

[MmmBoost]

I am also adding a fuel pressure gauge to verify my fuel pressure after the 034 drop in pump install.


MUI IMPORTANTE!!!

In my opinion this is a must after every high-flow pump upgrade. I don't know how some of these guys on here got away with running pumps without having fuel pressure issues......but I believe those days are over. More and more I'm seeing the same issues I was tackling with my 005

[Don Supreme]

I suppose I am confusing the two.....I have yet to log knock sensor voltages, but I will do so soon. However, the ecu is atill pulling as much a 6 degrees in low loads. I think its definitely a result of some fueling value being way off. Any ideas why I'm running SO lean at low rpm? I can post my values and maps if necessary

Are you running a wideband or are you just guessing?

[JumboBlack1.8]

Are you running a wideband or are you just guessing?

I'm running an LC-1 wideband. Those numbers are safe, but my o2 corrections are +10-18 at the points where cylinder corrections are high at low rpm's. Changing the Flowmeter correction tables doesn't seem to be doing the trick. It's my belief that some of my core fueling values are incorrect. But both my bvc and ic values are still set to theoretical.......I'm just not sure what to change......

[Don Supreme]

I'm running an LC-1 wideband. Those numbers are safe, but my o2 corrections are +10-18 at the points where cylinder corrections are high at low rpm's. Changing the Flowmeter correction tables doesn't seem to be doing the trick. It's my belief that some of my core fueling values are incorrect. But both my bvc and ic values are still set to theoretical.......I'm just not sure what to change......

So are you running a wideband ecu (2001+) or your original 2000 ATW ecu that uses a narrow band?

[Dolphin18T]

I fixed my fuel pressure issue the other day by following your lead on drilling out the restriction in the fuel filter, Chris. Sure enough, 58psi at idle now instead of >70psi.

I figured I would sort of start from scratch with my fueling maps despite the progress I had made because the low load/rpm values were out of whack. I changed my BVC to match the values that are given by ID and they were waaaay greater than what I was running before. Now I'm seeing this crazy AFR, especially at idle, and no O2 correction at idle. I'm going to flash back to my stable BVC values and go from there. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[JumboBlack1.8]

So are you running a wideband ecu (2001+) or your original 2000 ATW ecu that uses a narrow band?

Course not.....its got an awm harness and ecu. The PO originally did this to go MAF-less

[MmmBoost]

I fixed my fuel pressure issue the other day by following your lead on drilling out the restriction in the fuel filter, Chris. Sure enough, 58psi at idle now instead of >70psi.

I figured I would sort of start from scratch with my fueling maps despite the progress I had made because the low load/rpm values were out of whack. I changed my BVC to match the values that are given by ID and they were waaaay greater than what I was running before. Now I'm seeing this crazy AFR, especially at idle, and no O2 correction at idle. I'm going to flash back to my stable BVC values and go from there. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Good stuff! Glad things are back to normal. If you're running the ID725's use their values and subtract about 0.73 from the ID numbers for each value. That should get you very close.

[Don Supreme]

Course not.....its got an awm harness and ecu. The PO originally did this to go MAF-less

Where can I see your logs?

[JumboBlack1.8]

I posted a few cruising logs on the previous page. I've made some minor changes, but the lean spot remains. I'll upload a new one in a bit

[Don Supreme]

I posted a few cruising logs on the previous page. I've made some minor changes, but the lean spot remains. I'll upload a new one in a bit

So am I right in thinking that you are paranoid because of your rod bearing incident?

It seems you maybe a bit confused with what you are seeing in the logs.

How exactly are you running lean? You do realize that the idle / part throttle o2 should oscillate between 14.x to 15.x? The columns labeled as knock is misleading as those are correction factors, but not actual knock count or voltage. I have seen plenty of logs with cars correcting in low load situations.

I actually think you have major tune issues going on the rich side. How on earth can the tune be calling for 11.7 AFR near idle? Is that your doing?

[7speed]

Here is a log I took a few nights ago

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Asi0xScDheVpdExnRUhETG5meVVfWFRzUDBRMEtIU nc&hl=en_US#gid=0

[JumboBlack1.8]

So am I right in thinking that you are paranoid because of your rod bearing incident?

It seems you maybe a bit confused with what you are seeing in the logs.

How exactly are you running lean? You do realize that the idle / part throttle o2 should oscillate between 14.x to 15.x? The columns labeled as knock is misleading as those are correction factors, but not actual knock count or voltage. I have seen plenty of logs with cars correcting in low load situations.

I actually think you have major tune issues going on the rich side. How on earth can the tune be calling for 11.7 AFR near idle? Is that your doing?

The thing that is concerning to me is that my o2 corrections (not afr) sky-rockets in those low loads, which seems to inducing the high cylinder correction. Since that last log, my LTFT were 1.6875 -7.82175. So I know I was running quite rich at the theoretical bvc and ic values......I've since made the proper adjustments. But, as for the 11.7 afr......the ecu seems to be requesting that between shifts.....I am not at all sure why, but its a characteristic that's carried over from the base file......not sure how to change that...

[Don Supreme]

The thing that is concerning to me is that my o2 corrections (not afr) sky-rockets in those low loads, which seems to inducing the high cylinder correction. Since that last log, my LTFT were 1.6875 -7.82175. So I know I was running quite rich at the theoretical bvc and ic values......I've since made the proper adjustments. But, as for the 11.7 afr......the ecu seems to be requesting that between shifts.....I am not at all sure why, but its a characteristic that's carried over from the base file......not sure how to change that...

Have you reduced your temin?

[JumboBlack1.8]

I have, but it seemed to make matters worse. I've since bumped it back up to .75

[pape]

Here is a log I took a few nights ago

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Asi0xScDheVpdExnRUhETG5meVVfWFRzUDBRMEtIU nc&hl=en_US#gid=0

your batery voltage seems low. might be a good time to check the alternator.

[pape]

Here is one of my logs:

1.9l, 5857 63AR, ID1000cc, stock maf, stock fuelpump, stock TB, apikol Intake manifold, aeb head, 9.25 CR, 3"downpipe to stock catback.
the car has a great cold start, super smooth idle, and runs great @14psi

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqmGzQZSVNP6dEpKa3VDNUowN2lrRmpDM3lxQkpwV lE&hl=en_US#gid=0

I reved to 8200rpms on that log, is the limit on maestro 7800rpms?

[JumboBlack1.8]

I really think my car is possessed....

It drove fine the WHOLE night, until I dropped my buddy off about 5 minutes before I got home....then it started stuttering pretty badly, so I hooked up the laptop.......I may have some hardware issue, but here are the results...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsoYZ-Uz9mA2dFRNWDJmQ0tnNTA3M2xReVR2Rkg3eUE&hl=en_US#gid=0

I'm really getting sick of this.....

[EBG 18T]

The S4 MAF profile in maestro. Which s4 is it? B6 or the b5 ? If it is b5 is it the hitachi or bosch? Also are the b5 s4 MAF plug and play or are they different harness?

[EBG 18T]

The S4 MAF profile in maestro. Which s4 is it? B6 or the b5 ? If it is b5 is it the hitachi or bosch? Also are the b5 s4 MAF plug and play or are they different harness?

[Dolphin18T]

The S4 MAF profile in maestro. Which s4 is it? B6 or the b5 ? If it is b5 is it the hitachi or bosch? Also are the b5 s4 MAF plug and play or are they different harness?

There are two S4 MAF profiles. One is for the B6 V8. The other is for the B5 2000+. The B5 2000+ sensor is a Bosch unit and has the same plug/harness as the stock AMB. I'm running it now. I don't know what the sensor on the V8 is like.

[EBG 18T]

There are two S4 MAF profiles. One is for the B6 V8. The other is for the B5 2000+. The B5 2000+ sensor is a Bosch unit and has the same plug/harness as the stock AMB. I'm running it now. I don't know what the sensor on the V8 is like.

Are you running th oem air box or something else? I keep burning thru tt225 MAF so I am wondering if the b5s4 is more reliable.

[Dolphin18T]

Are you running th oem air box or something else? I keep burning thru tt225 MAF so I am wondering if the b5s4 is more reliable.

I'm running the OEM airbox. The outlet has been dremeled to fit my 75mm MAF housing. I've only been running this sensor for a few weeks now, so I can't really say anything about reliability. Are you maxing out the TT225 sensor? I wonder why it is failing. What size housing are you running?

[EBG 18T]

I'm running the OEM airbox. The outlet has been dremeled to fit my 75mm MAF housing. I've only been running this sensor for a few weeks now, so I can't really say anything about reliability. Are you maxing out the TT225 sensor? I wonder why it is failing. What size housing are you running?

Not sure hy I am going thru sensors. Been thru 3 in 10k miles.

Is the b5s4 75mm or 82mm?

[Dolphin18T]

Not sure hy I am going thru sensors. Been thru 3 in 10k miles.

Is the b5s4 75mm or 82mm?

The B5S4 housing is 73mm. I'm using this sensor because it is closest to my 75mm housing and only a small amount of scaling is required.

[Wet0willy01]

Ryan can you post a pic of your set up? Curious to see the 75mm housing in the OEM air box with the GT28RS [up]

edit- just realized you said b5s4....sorry I was thinking B6S4 like I am running which is larger

http://chrispaltzat.com/images/avant/build/MAF_comparison/MAF_comparison-16.jpg
^Chris is the man[hail]

[Dolphin18T]

Yeah, the housing I'm running is 75mm ID so it fits relatively well in the airbox. You just have to dremel out some of interior pieces of the box.

Here's a pic of my setup anyways. Not much to see.

It's stock, I swear. . . [;)]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U2Oq4OheDRQ/TmPG7i9204I/AAAAAAAACHk/xSqd5W1RQ6c/s800/IMAGE_1000000068.JPG

[Wet0willy01]

Looks good Ryan. Nice and clean. Reminds me of my 71r elim setup.

[25th AE GTi]

Couple questions I have.

I'm running 630 MAFLESS 50 trim 1.8 displacement AEB head I'm curious if anyone has had to make any major corrections to the VE table based on their MAF findings. I'm also wondering if you guys have any input on what MAF sensor variant would be the best to pickup for my setup or should I just go with the cheapest OEM one I can find (that maestro has a profile for).


MUI IMPORTANTE!!!

In my opinion this is a must after every high-flow pump upgrade. I don't know how some of these guys on here got away with running pumps without having fuel pressure issues......but I believe those days are over. More and more I'm seeing the same issues I was tackling with my 005

pardon my noobness but how does one go about checking fuel pressure near redline? Is this done by free reving the motor to redline with a guage hooked up and adding the amount of boost you are running (assuming its a 1:1 ratio, how do you know if something is wrong or not?). So far I've had to lean out the bottom in a few areas and richen up top with the main fuel correction; running a walbro inline.

Thanks.

[Wet0willy01]

I picked up my B6S4 4.2l V8 MAF and housing for ~90 bucks on ebay.

Hey Lancaster PA!

[pape]

I picked up my B6S4 4.2l V8 MAF and housing for ~90 bucks on ebay.

Hey Lancaster PA!

Do you have to use the one with the part number in maestro ? Or can it be any B6 S4 4.2L v8 maf?

[Wet0willy01]

I never verified my part number. Anyone have the PN from maestro handy Im in my shop now

[MmmBoost]

077 133 471 J

or the Bosch PN equivalent 0 280 218 067

[Wet0willy01]

Thanks Chris

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee458/wet0willy01/photo-7.jpg?t=1315250767

[MmmBoost]

hmmm...... maybe the Bosch number I found wasn't correct. I believe the K revision was the RS4 MAF.

i'll see what I can find


do your measurements match mine?
http://chrispaltzat.com/images/avant/build/MAF_comparison/MAF_comparison-15.jpg

http://chrispaltzat.com/images/avant/build/MAF_comparison/MAF_comparison-16.jpg

http://chrispaltzat.com/images/avant/build/MAF_comparison/MAF_comparison-17.jpg

[MmmBoost]

hmm.... it appears that the J and K may be the same MAF. Just different uses.

From what i've come across the K revision seems to be the B5 RS4 application and the J seems to be the B6 S4, but I've come across some K revisions used in the B6 S4 application as well.

[Wet0willy01]

hmmm...... maybe the Bosch number I found wasn't correct. I believe the K revision was the RS4 MAF.



do your measurements match mine?


Headed to a Labor Day party right now I will report back with the measurements when I get a chance.

[25th AE GTi]

I picked up my B6S4 4.2l V8 MAF and housing for ~90 bucks on ebay.

Hey Lancaster PA!

$90 isn't to bad. I'll have to snatch one up.

Lancaster! I'm surprised we have never run into each other.




Can someone explain the difference between engine load actual & engine load spec? Should these values be similiar? I noticed some large variances. If similiar what steps should I take to configure them properly?

[Dolphin18T]

My main fuel correction map is getting pretty well dialed in now. I'm now starting to try to remedy a couple of issues I've had from the beginning.

1. On cold start, I often have to crank the car a couple of times before it will start.

I'm starting to wonder if this can be corrected by changing the values in the "cranking fuel correction" map. Has anyone successfully solved an issue like this?

2. I'm getting a pretty nasty boost surge from 0-5psi. Feathering the throttle, boost shoots up to 5psi and back down again with the slightest modulation of the throttle. It's near impossible to hold anything between 0-5psi, it's practically an on/off button.

I haven't tried to mess with any of the boost maps yet. I'm not sure where to start.


Thanks!

[pape]

1. might be a fuel pressure problem, not software.
2.I dont know why but all this base maps have that feel to them like if the first 10% of the pedal is like on or off, then after you get past that you do have control of the TB with your foot. That can be adjusted on your alpha N map and also it get a lot smoother if you run a MAF and DV.

[Hansi]

2. Could this be because of the "Accelerator Pedal Map"?

From bananas' thread on Eurodyne forum: (http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689)
Accelerator Pedal Map
Bosch Abbreviation: KFPED_?_?
X: RPM (0-6000 RPM)
Y: Accelerator Pedal application (0-100%)
O: Percent torque requested by driver
Description: You can change the percentage of total power that is requested at various RPM, based on the input of your right foot. Want power to come on faster with less foot movement (think: sprint booster)? Increase the torque percent ramp of this map

[SleeperAvant]

My main fuel correction map is getting pretty well dialed in now. I'm now starting to try to remedy a couple of issues I've had from the beginning.

1. On cold start, I often have to crank the car a couple of times before it will start.

I'm starting to wonder if this can be corrected by changing the values in the "cranking fuel correction" map. Has anyone successfully solved an issue like this?

2. I'm getting a pretty nasty boost surge from 0-5psi. Feathering the throttle, boost shoots up to 5psi and back down again with the slightest modulation of the throttle. It's near impossible to hold anything between 0-5psi, it's practically an on/off button.

I haven't tried to mess with any of the boost maps yet. I'm not sure where to start.


Thanks!

1. How cold is it when you're trying to start the car? What spark plugs are you running? The cranking fuel correction map definitely will help, but it shouldn't be messed with too much as the base map is pretty good from what I've experienced. Try running the maestro logger while you're cranking, to see what your lambda values are, and injection time. Sometimes it can be something like your BVC, or Temin throwing it off, but I could be wrong. When I first tried tuning my MAF, I went through everything trying to figure out why my cold starts weren't smooth. Turned out that I had to fine-tune my MAF correction table (KFKHFM) more, by adding fuel in the low loads low RPM maps.

2. What are your boost duty maps like? The curve should be smooth, from 0-100 TPS, each column should have it's respective duty value, for example 10 TPS would have 10 % duty and so on. You can also increase the resolution of the ramping in smaller increments if you so desire. 0-5psi is a pretty fine increment, it might even be your internal wastegate pre-tension is a bit too high. What is the maximum amount of boost you desire to run, and what is the internal WG spring tension set at?

[Dolphin18T]

1. How cold is it when you're trying to start the car? What spark plugs are you running? The cranking fuel correction map definitely will help, but it shouldn't be messed with too much as the base map is pretty good from what I've experienced. Try running the maestro logger while you're cranking, to see what your lambda values are, and injection time. Sometimes it can be something like your BVC, or Temin throwing it off, but I could be wrong. When I first tried tuning my MAF, I went through everything trying to figure out why my cold starts weren't smooth. Turned out that I had to fine-tune my MAF correction table (KFKHFM) more, by adding fuel in the low loads low RPM maps.

It's been about 70-90F. Temperature doesn't seem to have an effect. I'm running Bosch F5DPOR's. I tried messing with the cranking fuel correction map, but it didn't seem to help. I might need to look at my MAF tables, as you said.



2. What are your boost duty maps like? The curve should be smooth, from 0-100 TPS, each column should have it's respective duty value, for example 10 TPS would have 10 % duty and so on. You can also increase the resolution of the ramping in smaller increments if you so desire. 0-5psi is a pretty fine increment, it might even be your internal wastegate pre-tension is a bit too high. What is the maximum amount of boost you desire to run, and what is the internal WG spring tension set at?

I haven't changed the boost duty map at all. It is perfectly linear, just as it was on the base file. I'm looking to run 25psi+. The wastegate is set at whatever APR sets the Stage 3+ GT28RS to. I assume it is somewhere around 14psi. I realized today that my boost stalls badly at ~14psi during WOT until I reach higher rpm's and then will continue to climb to 20+.

Is anyone willing to share their Max VE table?

[SleeperAvant]

Ah, I see. My MAX VE table is tailored to my laggy turbo, so it doesn't request peak load until around 4500-5000rpm, it tops out at around 226% load to 7200rpm. It is a completely flat 226% load request from 4500-7000. Don't forget to tweak your target cylinder filling map as well, as these maps work in concert to have the ECU request high amounts of load, beyond the stock map sensor limit, as well as hard-coding your N75 table.

[Dolphin18T]

Ah, I see. My MAX VE table is tailored to my laggy turbo, so it doesn't request peak load until around 4500-5000rpm, it tops out at around 226% load to 7200rpm. It is a completely flat 226% load request from 4500-7000. Don't forget to tweak your target cylinder filling map as well, as these maps work in concert to have the ECU request high amounts of load, beyond the stock map sensor limit, as well as hard-coding your N75 table.

Interesting... This is what my values currently look like:

http://i.imgur.com/7u6PB.jpg

[25th AE GTi]

1.


pardon my noobness but how does one go about checking fuel pressure near redline? Is this done by free reving the motor to redline with a guage hooked up and adding the amount of boost you are running ?

2.


Can someone explain the difference between engine load actual & engine load spec? Should these values be similiar? I noticed some large variances. If similiar what steps should I take to configure them properly?

...I'm running MAFLess...

[Wet0willy01]

pardon my noobness but how does one go about checking fuel pressure near redline? Is this done by free reving the motor to redline with a guage hooked up and adding the amount of boost you are running ?

Returnless fuel system? or raising rate?

Returnless you could log your Injector duty cycle and AFR. If you see you running lean on the top end with full injector duty cycle you are A) maxing out your injectors you are either A) undersized injectors or B) not enough flow from the pump causing a loss in fuel pressure.

[MmmBoost]

he's got a GTI, so he's return.

Hooking a gauge up to your fuel line and making it visible during a run.

If you're running a 3bar FPR (43.5 PSI) and you're running 20 PSI of boost.........you should be seeing 63.5 PSI of fuel pressure at 20 PSI boost.

[EBG 18T]

ryan - pm me your e-mail address. i should be able to send you some of my screen shots if that would help.

[Dolphin18T]

ryan - pm me your e-mail address. i should be able to send you some of my screen shots if that would help.

Awesome! Thanks, Eric. PM'ed

[aaronamerica]

hey can anybody exlpain whats the map for Load For Open Loop does?

[Dolphin18T]

Still trying to figure out why the car is so unstable in part-throttle. I noticed that if I do a log of me feathering the throttle around 0 psi, my TPS will jump from low numbers immediately to 99%+ and throw me to 5psi.

Any ideas why the TPS would be so jumpy?

[EBG 18T]

Still trying to figure out why the car is so unstable in part-throttle. I noticed that if I do a log of me feathering the throttle around 0 psi, my TPS will jump from low numbers immediately to 99%+ and throw me to 5psi.

Any ideas why the TPS would be so jumpy?

You adjust the tps map?

[MmmBoost]

Your TPS maps and your Cylinder Filling maps are the solution to your problems

[MmmBoost]

Keep in mind that you should adjust both the low speed map and the regular TPS map because the ECU constantly interpolates Drivers Requested Torque between these two maps.

[Dolphin18T]

You adjust the tps map?

Mine is very near exactly the same as yours. It doesn't make sense to me why it would be interpreting basically 100% throttle position, when I know it is not at 100%. Not even close (I'm barely on the throttle). Based on the TPS map, it makes sense that is so jumpy, because it thinks throttle position is max, so it is requesting max torque, boost duty, etc.

[MmmBoost]

Don't confuse throttle valve angle with requested torque.


If you don't have a very good understanding of how the ME7.5 Torque model works, I would HIGHLY recommend you read both of these articles.


The Bosch ME-Motronic System, Part 1 (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Bosch-MEMotronic-System-Part-1/A_108379/article.html)
The Bosch ME-Motronic System, Part 2 (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Bosch-MEMotronic-System-Part-2/A_108380/article.html)

[EBG 18T]

Mine is very near exactly the same as yours. It doesn't make sense to me why it would be interpreting basically 100% throttle position, when I know it is not at 100%. Not even close (I'm barely on the throttle). Based on the TPS map, it makes sense that is so jumpy, because it thinks throttle position is max, so it is requesting max torque, boost duty, etc.

Do you wan my cylinder filling map to compare ?

[Dolphin18T]

Do you wan my cylinder filling map to compare ?

Please. Perhaps Optimum Torque as well.




Don't confuse throttle valve angle with requested torque.


If you don't have a very good understanding of how the ME7.5 Torque model works, I would HIGHLY recommend you read both of these articles.


The Bosch ME-Motronic System, Part 1
The Bosch ME-Motronic System, Part 2



Thanks, Chris. This i giving me a better understanding.

[Dolphin18T]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I think I'm confusing myself even more. I just traced a very short log of me feathering the pedal around 0psi over my Accelerator pedal map. I was very lightly modulating the pedal in 3rd gear to get the effect I have mentioned before where it will suddenly request heavy increase in throttle aperture. No where near 100% pedal. Less than 50% even. However, the log shows it jumping to 100%.

Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

Logging block 062 while the car is stationary yields values that change as I would expect for pedal %... Seemingly consistent throughout pedal movement. I have not logged block 062 in motion, but I would think the resistance of the sensor is independent of the car being in full operation or not.

http://i.imgur.com/oD6hT.jpg

[Dolphin18T]

Idle pedal position:

http://i.imgur.com/MNOJL.jpg

Fully depressed pedal position:

http://i.imgur.com/W0rZy.jpg

[EBG 18T]

Please. Perhaps Optimum Torque as well.
ng.

Ok. I will try to email them to you tomorrow.

[hammergears]

I'm from the vwvortex forums but I was recommended to come post here to ask maestro questions. So i have been trying to get my car to run correctly but am not sure if the problem i am having is mechanical or problems with the eurodyne file.(license to use maestro expired, need suggestions to get that back too) So im asking if this looks familiar or similar to anyone elses issues with there file with idle and when accelerating on the pedal(in and out of gear) i get a surge rather then a gradual gain??(watch video) Could you guys please take a look at my video of my car and its idle issue and fueling problems and let me know if you guys think this is related to maestro/eurodyne? heres my original post on the vwvortex http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5429365-1.8t-build-fueling-boost-idle-issues-please-help!!need-expert-opinion!! let me know what you guys think. thanks in advance

http://youtu.be/X_rEK2jQ2UI

[MmmBoost]

Give use a complete list of specs of ALL of the hardware. Everything that is tuning related.

[hammergears]

Give use a complete list of specs of ALL of the hardware. Everything that is tuning related.
Eurodyne 630cc Siemens basefile for a Garrett T3/T4 50 trim .63 a/r
also running a walbro 255 fuel pump (dont know if relevant)
all for a 2002 VW AWP 1.8t MAFless

[MmmBoost]

bone stock 1.8?
what pressure fuel press. regulator?
ant changes to your file?

[hammergears]

bone stock 1.8?
what pressure fuel press. regulator?
ant changes to your file?

I have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator set at stock setting at the moment 45psi i believe 3bar
I already tried to adjust it with the walbro on and off and same results.
file is a base file never adjusted. internals are stock. tial external wastegate

[MmmBoost]

How did you adjust the regulator?

[hammergears]

How did you adjust the regulator?
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Fuel/ES5705/
It adjusts with an allan wrench.

[MmmBoost]

fuck.......i'm not a retard

I meant the process. Forget it.

Did you adjust the regulator with the FPR disconnected from the manifold?

[hammergears]

sorry wasnt tryin to be rude. no i adjusted while running. would it make a difference? i watched the pressure change on the gauge and the symtoms didnt change. of course the less fuel pressure, car would eventually stop.

[MmmBoost]

yes it makes a HUGE difference

Your fueling is all fucked up because it is expecting 43.5 PSI BEFORE you hook the manifold up to it. The fuel pressure regulator is a 1:1 ratio so when you hook vacuum up to it, your pressure at idle will be less than 43.5. Right now you're getting way too much fuel and drowning the engine.

I can't see what the pressure is what the car is running and I also can't read a thing from VagCom so it's hard to tell what's going on. But i bet your O2 corrections are pegged.

[hammergears]

the psi is at 43 to 45 but changes when i get that hicup in the idle.I have stock 3 bar regulator, just have adjustable fpr to test different fuel pressure to see if that could have fix the problem(but didnt). so the next step i should check my o2? where do i go from here? is it receiving too much fuel due to injectors? fuel map on basefile?

[MmmBoost]

Put your 3 bar back in.

Are you sure you don't have a hardware issue?


Without any data no one can tell you what's wrong. sorry dude. We need a log to see what's going on....

[hammergears]

i'll get a log up as soon as i can, all parts are new(turbo, injectors, fuel pump, dv, ex wastegate, boost controller, rear o2 is new front is original). had chris tapp double check my ecu to see if it was functioning properly. ran a compression test and leak down test everything is fine, new spark plugs, coil packs are good. I work at NAPA Auto so new parts are easy pick up. sensors are all good some new. basefile is MAFless if i didnt already state. what values should i have in the log?

[MmmBoost]

Grab a Maestro log. It should have enough to get going with. the ones I'm most concerned with are O2 correction, Lambda readings, throttle angle, timing.

[hammergears]

my maestro license has expired to use. would you know how to renew? i sent them an email and called them and left a message but havent got a response yet. all i have at the moment is vagcom.

[MmmBoost]

you have to deal with Tapp on the license


Is your MAF hooked up?? I can't tell from the video.

[Dan[FN]6262]

EDIT: Chris beat me to it lol.

[hammergears]

you have to deal with Tapp on the license


Is your MAF hooked up?? I can't tell from the video.

yes MAF is hooked up, didnt know if i should leave it plugged in or run resistor on connector since its programed for mafless???

[MmmBoost]

LOL.........no wonder you're having problems.

I bet your MAF size is not setup in Maestro. BTW there really isn't any such thing as MAFLESS. There is nothing different between one file and another. And if you have a MAF there.........USE IT!! it will make a world of difference in your ability to dial your car in.


What size is the MAF? (is is an OEM setup?) I can't tell anything from the video

[Dan[FN]6262]

lol called it

[MmmBoost]

You certainly did, Dan.

[hammergears]

its the oem maf but the issue is is that my turbo inlet pipe is 4 in

[Dolphin18T]

4"...? How are you adapting that?

[Dan[FN]6262]

4"...? How are you adapting that?

lol he isn't hence his issues.


Hammergears, unplug the MAF sensor, turn the FPR up to 58psi and see what it runs like. (I'm assuming that your fueling values in Maestro are set up for a 4bar system)

[Dolphin18T]

5857;6865163']lol he isn't hence his issues.


Hammergears, unplug the MAF sensor and see what it runs like.

No, I mean, physically... I assumed stock maf is less than 3" and compressor housing inlet is something like 2.5". He must have meant stock maf sensor, in a 4" housing...?

[nofearhawk]

How did you adjust the regulator?


It adjusts with an allan wrench.


fuck.......i'm not a retard

I meant the process. Forget it.

For some reason, this made me laugh so hard I choked on my big mac.

I'm sure he meant his turbo compressor housing inlet was 4", and it has a turbo inlet pipe that tapers down to the stock maf

[Dan[FN]6262]

No, I mean, physically... I assumed stock maf is less than 3" and compressor housing inlet is something like 2.5". He must have meant stock maf sensor, in a 4" housing...?

stock MAF housing is something like 2.5 inches. and yes, if you look at his video, its the sensor in the 4in inlet pipe. He has a bung for it.

[Dan[FN]6262]

I'm sure he meant his turbo compressor housing inlet was 4", and it has a turbo inlet pipe that tapers down to the stock maf


nope, watch his video.

[25th AE GTi]

Ok I could really use some insight on this one. I also posted this in the Eurodyne forum hoping to get a response from Tapp.

I know I'm not the only one with this problem as I've seen & discussed this issue with several other users.

For some reason I'm losing o2 correction from 4700-5500 RPM. It doesn't always happen for example I did a full throttle pull 3rd through 5th. 3rd & 5th gear lost o2 correction but I maintained it all through 4th. At first I was thinking it had something to do with the EGT threshold but that map appears to be more of a warmup threshold to switch to the main fuel correction map. Regardless my o2 correction drops to 0 and my timing advance dives until correction comes back. The car dumps fuel for this period.There are no signs of timing correction or pull on any of the unlocked maps. One thing I have noticed is it seems to occur when I hit 140% load. I'm at a loss, hopefully some insight can be provided into this problem.


SETUP: MAFLESS 630cc Return Fuel System @ 3 Bar w/ Walbro. 22 PSI. Base Timing Map. All emissions/vvt/sai equipment electronically plugged in.
3rd gear pull

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtDn9VrTw7AHdHFzM2ZCMnY0Q1pJY2c5T3ZLTVk0U Wc&hl=en_US (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtDn9VrTw7AHdHFzM2ZCMnY0Q1pJY2c5T3ZLTVk0U Wc&hl=en_US)


Here is a snapshot of losing o2 correction and its affect on the timing advance. o2 correction left axis, timing adance right axisPlease see log for full data.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e5/TooLFan46n2/o2timinglog.jpg

[Dan[FN]6262]

Ok I could really use some insight on this one. I also posted this in the Eurodyne forum hoping to get a response from Tapp.

I know I'm not the only one with this problem as I've seen & discussed this issue with several other users.

For some reason I'm losing o2 correction from 4700-5500 RPM. It doesn't always happen for example I did a full throttle pull 3rd through 5th. 3rd & 5th gear lost o2 correction but I maintained it all through 4th. At first I was thinking it had something to do with the EGT threshold but that map appears to be more of a warmup threshold to switch to the main fuel correction map. Regardless my o2 correction drops to 0 and my timing advance dives until correction comes back. The car dumps fuel for this period.There are no signs of timing correction or pull on any of the unlocked maps. One thing I have noticed is it seems to occur when I hit 140% load. I'm at a loss, hopefully some insight can be provided into this problem.


SETUP: MAFLESS 630cc Return Fuel System @ 3 Bar w/ Walbro. 22 PSI. Base Timing Map. All emissions/vvt/sai equipment electronically plugged in.
3rd gear pull

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtDn9VrTw7AHdHFzM2ZCMnY0Q1pJY2c5T3ZLTVk0U Wc&hl=en_US (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtDn9VrTw7AHdHFzM2ZCMnY0Q1pJY2c5T3ZLTVk0U Wc&hl=en_US)

when my car was doing this, my O2 sensor was dying.

[25th AE GTi]

5857;6865353']when my car was doing this, my O2 sensor was dying.

Interesting; I know 3 people who currently have this issue, give or take a few hundred rpm. Did your o2 throw any fault codes? I would have figured my fuel trims would be off further than they are. Block 032 is within acceptable specs. I just realized my o2 diagnostics and lambda configs were disabled (came this way from Tapp). I will reflash with those settings enabled. Anyone know what exactly does the lambda config do that is in the diagnostics menu?

[Dan[FN]6262]

nope, no codes. and I never noticed any difference when switchig those to "enabled"

[Wet0willy01]

I have a spare if you want to try

[hammergears]

5857;6865163']lol he isn't hence his issues.


Hammergears, unplug the MAF sensor, turn the FPR up to 58psi and see what it runs like. (I'm assuming that your fueling values in Maestro are set up for a 4bar system)
you were right. unplugged the MAF and she runs great, thanks so much.

[Dan[FN]6262]

that's great news

[Dolphin18T]

Ok. I will try to email them to you tomorrow.

Awesome. I'm thinking Chris is right. The more I play back logs, I think it might be my Optimum engine torque map.

http://imgur.com/Q4mNZ.jpg

[25th AE GTi]

I have a spare if you want to try

I appreciate the offer but since my 02 has 9 years and 70,000 miles on it and it plays such an important role in fueling I'm going to just replace it. [up]


Ah, I see. My MAX VE table is tailored to my laggy turbo, so it doesn't request peak load until around 4500-5000rpm, it tops out at around 226% load to 7200rpm. It is a completely flat 226% load request from 4500-7000. Don't forget to tweak your target cylinder filling map as well, as these maps work in concert to have the ECU request high amounts of load, beyond the stock map sensor limit, as well as hard-coding your N75 table.

Can I use the histogram feature to dial the target filling & optimal engine torque maps or is everyone tracing MAF values to do this.

My engine load and engine load spec are vastly different. I don't fully understand how all these maps are interlaced so I didn't want to go around just editing everything. I noticed differences of 60-80% load in some areas. Did altering these maps have any noticable affect on how the car drives?

[25th AE GTi]

Am I asking redundant questions or does no one know? Would it be helpful if I post up some actual vs requested engine load logs and histograms? Or should I not even attempt this without a MAF?

[MmmBoost]

Engine Spec. Load is a maximum value that is governed by Maximum VE (LDRXN).
Actual Load is what the actual load is. They will not necessarily be the same value unless you want to try and ask torque control to intervene in your torque curve to give you a specific torque profile. Torque control won't even be able to function properly in that manner if you're not using the N75 to control your boost.


You cannot use the histogram function to alter maps like Target Filling and Optimum Engine TQ maps. If you don't know what you're doing, don't even touch optimum engine torque except for the last column. If you mess with either of these two maps without knowing how they work together you can cause all sorts of havoc with torque control.

[Hansi]

How can I adjust my Battery Voltage Compensation values if my block 32 LTFT shows 0? Partial throttle LTFT works, idle LTFT doesn't seem to work? So far I've been correcting it based on STFT.

[Hansi]

When tracing a histogram for average values, do you have to let it run through the entire logdata in real time or can it simulate it quicker somehow? I absolutely love this function so far but it's just a little painstaking on a 20-30 minute log.

Did you get an answer to this? Is it possible?

[Dolphin18T]

Did you get an answer to this? Is it possible?

No. I don't believe it is.

[JumboBlack1.8]

My tune is requesting a VERY rich mixture whenever I let off the throttle (mostly between shifts).....anyone have an explanation for that? LAMFA is the map for correcting Desired Lambda....but I cant see what corrections I'd need to make to my map to remedy this......My car is running pretty rich, evidenced by my horrible city fuel economy.....Any advice would be much appreciated

[Hansi]

I would guess Deceleration fuel

[pape]

My tune is requesting a VERY rich mixture whenever I let off the throttle (mostly between shifts).....anyone have an explanation for that? LAMFA is the map for correcting Desired Lambda....but I cant see what corrections I'd need to make to my map to remedy this......My car is running pretty rich, evidenced by my horrible city fuel economy.....Any advice would be much appreciated

I also get this on my tune with ID1000, Its more of a problem with load, between shifts when the engine load is minimal the tune richens up.

You will also see people on vortex with the same issue.

Mmmboost sugested to adjust my Injector Correction Map (KFFKVS). And I have also read on vortex to adjust your alpha N map to get the airfuel into open loop.

[MmmBoost]

KFFKVS and Alpha-N have nothing to do with changing what the ECU requests. If the ECU is requesting Lamda 0.96 (like mine) after letting off the throttle for a short period of time, this is to prevent a lean surge when to get back on the throttle. From what I've come across for info.......this is perfectly normal.

[MmmBoost]

My tune is requesting a VERY rich mixture whenever I let off the throttle (mostly between shifts).....anyone have an explanation for that? LAMFA is the map for correcting Desired Lambda....but I cant see what corrections I'd need to make to my map to remedy this......My car is running pretty rich, evidenced by my horrible city fuel economy.....Any advice would be much appreciated

What is being requested?

I also didn't have much success using LAMFA to tune desired AFR. It seems to work differently on the B6 ECU. However, it may be a different case on some of the older A4 ECUs, S4, and VW's.

[JumboBlack1.8]

I figured that the tune needed to be somewhat rich between shifts, but mine appears to be excessively dumping fuel.....My tune is requesting 11.8, but the actual AFR will occassional drop well below that mark

Also, what is the LAMFA equivalent in Maestro? Power Enrichment?

[MmmBoost]

11.8 seems a bit excessive. Not sure why it would be doing that....

LAMFA translates to Power Enrichment in Maestro. However, LAMFA is disabled once your calculated EGT gets above the threshold you have set in your tune. Since we don't have access to re-calibrate the EGT model for different (or no) catalytic converters.......you're basically stuck with how the ECU calculates EGT.

[JumboBlack1.8]

Hm....interesting. My EGT Threshold for Full Load Lambda value is 522.473781.....but, obviously, this over enrichment isn't occurring at Full Load.....Should we start to campaign for Chris to add that map for us? Any idea what the Bosch map name (or acronym) is?

Lastly, would you suggest I STILL play with power enrichment to raise Desired AFR? Or should I play with the Deceleration Fueling table (I know this won't change what the ECU requests, but it may help my Actual AFR from dipping below 11.0, as it occasionally does)

[JumboBlack1.8]

Heres a snapshot of my untouched Power Enrichment table....along with my TEMIN and KRKTE values

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee167/FattieJayMack/PowerEnrichmentFueling.jpg

[MmmBoost]

If you've every logged calculated EGT they tend to stay above 475 a lot of the time. There are also a number of calculated EGT values...some are for the valves.....some are for the CAT.....etc, but since we can't re calibrate any of this stuff for larger turbos and more freely flowing exhausts......they are artificially high.


I can't really tell you how to fix your problem as I haven't experienced it myself. I have tried tuning with LAMFA for my entire map by disabling KFLBTS (full load lambda) but I could not get the ECU to follow my requested lambda. I was getting very lean requested AFR at full boost. Rather than risking blowing something up I decided to abandon messing with it any longer.


Is the ECU actually requesting 11.8? or is that just what you're seeing?

[JumboBlack1.8]

Here's a log from early September.....I haven't made many changes to the file since then. But scroll down to around line 340....you'll see Desired AFR drop to 11.8 for a split second, but Actual AFR dips all the way down to 11.02.....then slowly creeps back up to near stoich at partial throttle.......My AFR's are kinda all over the place in this log:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsoYZ-Uz9mA2dFRNWDJmQ0tnNTA3M2xReVR2Rkg3eUE&hl=en_US#gid=0

[MmmBoost]

Your MAF flow goes to 0 at a few points.......weird. I have never seen that before. What MAF? have you adjusted KFKHFM (flowmeter correction) at all?

The random bits of timing correction bother me as well

[JumboBlack1.8]

Its a B6 S4 MAF. And yes, I have adjusted my flowmeter table....though I haven't quite finished it, as other issues continue to pop up:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee167/FattieJayMack/Flowmeter.jpg

My tuning strategy is to fix all my fueling issues, then figure out those timing values......but my assumption is that the two aren't mutually exclusive........I'm getting real sick of TRYING to tune this car...

[MmmBoost]

timing and fueling go hand-in-hand i'm afraid.

The first thing you should be concentrating on is your MAF though..... You should not be reading 0 flow at any point unless the car is shut off. I suspect this may be a large portion of the weirdness you're seeing.

How were you tuning your KFKHFM table?

[JumboBlack1.8]

I tuned the Flowmeter Correction table using the stock AWM injectors and Injection Correction table (sent from Tapp). I spent about a week dialing in the table.

Now that I think about it, that log that I posted above MIGHT be when I had a dying MAF.....I've since bought a new one and installed it. Here's a log from yesterday (JUST uploaded this one):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsoYZ-Uz9mA2dHBURmhVMXFUREsxMG05UjkteG03cHc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Sorry for the confusion

[pape]

I tuned the Flowmeter Correction table using the stock AWM injectors and Injection Correction table (sent from Tapp). I spent about a week dialing in the table.

Now that I think about it, that log that I posted above MIGHT be when I had a dying MAF.....I've since bought a new one and installed it. Here's a log from yesterday (JUST uploaded this one):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsoYZ-Uz9mA2dHBURmhVMXFUREsxMG05UjkteG03cHc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Sorry for the confusion

Take a look at your log and you will see that your A/F drops realy low when your under 15.00 engine load.

This is the same problem I have with my ID1000.

[diagnosticator]

I figured that the tune needed to be somewhat rich between shifts, but mine appears to be excessively dumping fuel.....My tune is requesting 11.8, but the actual AFR will occassional drop well below that mark

Also, what is the LAMFA equivalent in Maestro? Power Enrichment?

If the injectors are spraying fuel on the intake port runner walls, the lambda will vary a lot as fuel either stays on the port walls, (goes lean,) or flashes off quickly, (goes rich,) as the manifold pressure and mass air flow rate varies.

[25th AE GTi]

Anyone ever see any timing pull (I assume caused by knock) in between shifts? I'm guessing its from my single mass lightweight flywheel that is a chatterbox. Although I don't recall seeing knock when I was running 18psi or less. I'm pulling the car off the road next week to do some maintance o2 sensor (9 yrs, 80k old), replace crank pulley bolts (I've reused them a few times 1 keeps backing out), leak test etc. I'm also venting to atmosphere but I don't think that should really be an issue. Planning to head up to APTUNING's dyno day and see what numbers she puts down with the AEB head on.

EDIT: I reviewed some old logs and the timing pull was not there even at 20psi. Ordered my new o2 and bolts today. I'll report back on how it runs after replacing those items. In the meantime anyone have any suggestions on how to possibly identify where my knock could be coming from? It seems odd its only during shifts, unfortanetly the timing pull carries over to the next gear before it trickles down to 0. I'll grab a log and post up later.

[Wet0willy01]

Anyone have Throttle angle vs Flow charts for the 70 and 75mm throttle body?

Anyone tuned on IECVA1 cams yet?

[Hansi]

I am/will be tuning for Cat 3658s, don't know how similar they are to the IECVA1..

I would be interested in 75mm TB Throttle angle vs flow charts as well

[Wet0willy01]

Just wondering what the VE tables looked like for the IECVA1 cams

[Hansi]

I see.. Sorry, can't help you there, at least not yet..

Do you or does anyone have good working values for ID1000 injectors on 2008cc engine?

Here (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,617.msg8097.html#msg8097) is the recipe I plan on following when I get my ID1000s installed, thoughts?
How have all of you done your tuning?
FKKVS = Main Fuel Correction
KFKHFM = Flowmeter Correction
KRKTE = Injector Constant
TVUB = Battery Voltage Compensation
TEMIN = Minimum Injector Pulsewidth

[Wet0willy01]

sorry not there yet... and I'm stock displacement still[evilsmile]

[Hansi]

Nobody willing to share their tuning method?

[25th AE GTi]

Well my problems must have been temp related; riding close to the threshold now since ambient temps have dropped the problem is gone and car pulls even harder.

[Dolphin18T]

Well my problems must have been temp related; riding close to the threshold now since ambient temps have dropped the problem is gone and car pulls even harder.

Which problems? Timing pull?

[25th AE GTi]

Which problems? Timing pull?

Yes, and I'm assuming it was IAT related. I really don't know as it seemed to start pulling timing before i hit 50 C. I've yet to see any pull since it has gotten colder. I wish TAPP would integrate a knock count of some sort that could be easily logged and seen in the log viewer.

[BARRY]

random question...does motronic/maestro have the ability to log fuel pressure?

[MmmBoost]

no.

There is no fuel pressure sensor in the system. Fuel pressure is a calculated value

[BARRY]

no.

There is no fuel pressure sensor in the system. Fuel pressure is a calculated value

no sensor, but you are saying, maestro can calculate "estimated" fuel pressure based on available data?

[MmmBoost]

no sensor, but you are saying, maestro can calculate "estimated" fuel pressure based on available data?

Fuel pressure isn't even technically calculated........resultant injector sizing is what is calculated. The car doesn't care what the fuel pressure is, only what the injector flow is.


......so there is a known flowrate at a known pressure. On a static system the ECU compensates for intake manifold pressure. On a rising rate system, fuel pressure stays static relative to intake manifold pressure.

What are you trying to figure out?

[BARRY]

Fuel pressure isn't even technically calculated........resultant injector sizing is what is calculated. The car doesn't care what the fuel pressure is, only what the injector flow is.


......so there is a known flowrate at a known pressure. On a static system the ECU compensates for intake manifold pressure. On a rising rate system, fuel pressure stays static relative to intake manifold pressure.

What are you trying to figure out?

when i go maestro should i purchase a device to log rpm x fuel pressure to validate that the fuel pump is holding pressure throughout the rev range.

[MmmBoost]

I don't think it's worth buy a datalogger to monitor it.

What are your plans for power and what are your plans for fueling?

[BARRY]

I don't think it's worth buy a datalogger to monitor it.

What are your plans for power and what are your plans for fueling?

between 400-450 wheel HP to be on par with my LS2 Lexus. I like wet0willy01's feel pump solution. I think that fuel config should suffice.

[MmmBoost]

Well my suggestion would be to borrow a gauge, or rig up a gauge on the windshield and have someone keep an eye on things while you drive. If pressure holds during your initial testing, you should be fine. If something gets out of whack later on, you'll be able to tell by comparing injector duty cycles. That's how I figured out my fuel pump was not adequate for my power levels. And now that I've upgraded IDC is something that I rearely even check.

Is this going to be on a B5? B6?

[BARRY]

Well my suggestion would be to borrow a gauge, or rig up a gauge on the windshield and have someone keep an eye on things while you drive. If pressure holds during your initial testing, you should be fine. If something gets out of whack later on, you'll be able to tell by comparing injector duty cycles. That's how I figured out my fuel pump was not adequate for my power levels. And now that I've upgraded IDC is something that I rearely even check.

Is this going to be on a B5? B6?

this is going to be a B6 build.
psi manifold
GT30R
2 liter
wet0willy01 fuel pump config
maestro
etc...

once my Lexus is out of the shop, going to start ordering parts for the Audi

[Hansi]

Log from today (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhKBvtawlPaidFl0NjZEUlJfdVctbDRYWU55TWdQb 2c&hl=en_US#gid=0), comments please?

[Dolphin18T]

Log from today (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhKBvtawlPaidFl0NjZEUlJfdVctbDRYWU55TWdQb 2c&hl=en_US#gid=0), comments please?

Similar setup to mine. Logs look better than mine though. :(

What MAF are you using?

[Hansi]

This is after trying a lot of different BVC values, I think I've got my BVC and IC adjusted fairly OK..
It drives OK, but there's a lot of hesitation going on, probably because I set injection correction, main fuel correction and maf correction to 1,0001, I think the next step I will do is using the logs and trace Injection correction and MAF correction maps..

I'm running a B6 S4 MAF. If possible you should try to avoid MAF scaling, I've read that's difficult to get right..

[Hansi]

Can I use one log and the trace histogram to adjust two maps, or should I only adjust one map per log?

[25th AE GTi]

Few questions.
1) Does anyone with a similiar setup have some full throttle logs to share? Stock 1.8t displacement T3/T4 turbo. I want to compare MAF values and calculated engine load with my MAFLESS file.
2) What A/F are you guys tuning for during spoolup? For example A/F during 1-5psi right before the turbo ramps up to 20psi. A/F during the "lag curve" of spooling. I noticed my base file requests 14.7 in some areas. Was going to richen it up to 13.5 during lag/spool area.
3) Base Injection correction map - My base map has a few cells that are not 1.0001. Is this normal? Seems strange that only 10-15 cells are randomly modified.

And an update. Chris is finalizing a new version of Maestro and has been working on ME7.5 VVT control for me. He said a working 2 point control VVT map will be included with the upcoming release.

I'm hitting the dyno this saturday as well [wrench]

[25th AE GTi]

Can I use one log and the trace histogram to adjust two maps, or should I only adjust one map per log?

1 trace per log playback.

[MmmBoost]

Chris has added a couple of new maps for me in the B6 file......and a few more on the way as soon as I can find some time to help him out with a list. Rev 2.3.4

[Hansi]

1 trace per log playback.

Thanks [:)]



Chris has added a couple of new maps for me in the B6 file......and a few more on the way as soon as I can find some time to help him out with a list. Rev 2.3.4

[up]
Like I've said before, good thing we have you requesting new features/maps [:)]
Which maps though? I can't see any new ones..

[MmmBoost]

EGT model maps have been added as well as cam phase maps.

[25th AE GTi]

EGT model maps have been added as well as cam phase maps.

Very nice. I didn't see any more EGT models in my recent download (VW MK4). So are there 2 EGT maps now? Like a below min EGT and above max EGT threshold? All I've had in my file (from my understanding) is a below EGT map unlocked.

[MmmBoost]

These are EGT MODEL maps not EGT-based fueling maps. They are how the ECU calculates EGT's. I don't know exactly which maps they are yet because I haven't spend much time looking at them. I only asked for them to get a rough idea of how the ECU was calculating EGT based on load and RPM.


.....and these maps may not be in your file. As I said earlier, this is for the B6 file. Changes in maestro are based on each model/ECU....and are not across the board

[Hansi]

It seems it's not available for the European model B6, not available in my file..

[25th AE GTi]

Anyone have ideas on how I can get my optimum timing advance to increase? I have no CF factors, good IAT's but my timing advance is always 3-7 degrees less than spec. I've looked around and I'm getting the feeling I'm stuck at what it is unless we get more maps unlocked.Also what components are calculated into the timing advance? Knock, missfire detection, IAT what else?

[MmmBoost]

I have been trying forever to get my timing to increase......but I can't seem to do anything about it. I have tried a few things. In fact I just had this conversation with Steve (20VTurbo) the other day.


MAAAAAAAAAAAANY factors are included in the calculations for actual spark output. The timing maps are among some of the most complicated charts to follow in the Bosch documentation. AFR, EGTs, IATs, fuel temperature, etc are just some of the factors involved in the calculations.

I have tried asking Tapp about this and he basically just says "I don't have that problem it must be your tune"

[613B6]

I dont have any issues with increasing timing. I get direct results from both airtemp correction pull and the main timing map. Its pretty much direct for what Ive asked for.

[MmmBoost]

I dont have any issues with increasing timing. I get direct results from both airtemp correction pull and the main timing map. Its pretty much direct for what Ive asked for.

Are you running a MAF?

[SleeperAvant]

I find that too, Chris. Actual timing is affected by a number of maps, not just the main timing map. On some days I'll get 19-20º of timing advance under full boost, other days I'll only get 10-12º, all on the same tune. Of course many outside variables such as gas quality, elevation, air quality and temperature will affect it.

[613B6]

Im running a maf (tt225) and see really no change from day to day either. I just put in a winter tune for 91 octane and turn the boost down to 20lbs. I pulled out a couple degrees and turn down the meth duty on the pump (to save washer fluid lol) and my numbers are spot on what I pulled. As what it was like this summer when I added meth, I increased my main timing map and reduced the air temp correct to optimize what i wanted and it was spot on.

[MmmBoost]

This is what Chris wrote me once upon a time when I asked him about my garbage timing.



Your timing limitation probably has more to do with the torque control interfering than any editor related problems. When you use the maf this is often the case.

[613B6]

Ive also tune a few other maestro cars in town and had no issues with timing either. maf and mafless. Are you guys hitting ceiling?

[613B6]

Chris, I assume your not maxing out your maf?

[MmmBoost]

The most I ever see when boost hits it's peak is around 6° then it slowly starts to taper up to about 11-12. despite requesting 14.25 @ 4000rpms and 21 @ 6720

The log I am currently looking at has 29°C IATs and my corrections for timing should be no more than -5.25° for temps below 39.75°C



No. I am running a B6 S4 MAF capable of 1780 kg/hr after offset is taken into consideration.

[SleeperAvant]

Chris, what's your optimum spark table like? Paste up a screen.

[613B6]

Weird, with meth, mine are within 1.5 degrees of my main timing table and what I have pulled for intake temps. Try taking no timing out (i.e 0 pulled across the board) for intake temp correction and see what happens. I was running 16 degrees all summer with meth and my timing table is at 18 peak. Ive had it up to 21 degrees for a 3rd gear pull..stock block and 25lbs lol

[SleeperAvant]

You have 0 in the entire map for timing vs. air intake temp? That's risky lmao. Throw in those H-beams sooner rather than later.

[MmmBoost]

Chris, what's your optimum spark table like? Paste up a screen.

We don't have access to optimum ignition angle tables.

[Audi Skate Snow]

stock block and that much timing... that spells disaster!

Got a text today and should finally be putting my Maestro in tonight. Have never played with the program so we will see it goes.

[SleeperAvant]

We don't have access to optimum ignition angle tables.

Sorry, I meant optimum engine torque.

http://i.imgur.com/9Zo68.png

[613B6]

holy crap you guys cant read, I said to try it to see if it changes anything. I dont run mine that way, thats why these safe guards are in place.

Tapps doing my rods in January, then your going to see some searious timing, but I have been running 16 all summer on 25lbs stock block and meth. shit hauls ass.

[SleeperAvant]

lmao

[vinny.dtw]

holy crap you guys cant read, I said to try it to see if it changes anything. I dont run mine that way, thats why these safe guards are in place.

Tapps doing my rods in January, then your going to see some searious timing, but I have been running 16 all summer on 25lbs stock block and meth. shit hauls ass.

Still sad that I didn't get to see your car in action at vagkraft.

[613B6]

Next year maybe, if you guys ever go to shanonville, Ill pop down its half way for me.

[SleeperAvant]

Sam, I'll try zeroing out my 9ºC and 20ºC air intake temp vs. timing correction columns [>_<]

[25th AE GTi]

This is what Chris wrote me once upon a time when I asked him about my garbage timing.

So I'm MAFless, does torque control still affect me? I thought it was MAF based; I forget its tough to wrap my head around everything let alone remember it :P
I was thinking of trying to rescale the load axis or alter values in the 2nd to last column of cells. Obtain 100% engine torque slightly earlier in my load tables.



Ive also tune a few other maestro cars in town and had no issues with timing either. maf and mafless. Are you guys hitting ceiling?

What exactly do you mean ceiling? I am maxing my load table since I'm mafless and maxing the map sensor.



The most I ever see when boost hits it's peak is around 6° then it slowly starts to taper up to about 11-12. despite requesting 14.25 @ 4000rpms and 21 @ 6720

The log I am currently looking at has 29°C IATs and my corrections for timing should be no more than -5.25° for temps below 39.75°C
No. I am running a B6 S4 MAF capable of 1780 kg/hr after offset is taken into consideration.

Its amazing the variances across maps, I have a postive correction factor for 9 & 20 degrees. I also request up to 23 deg advance but the most I'm getting is 18.


Sam, I'll try zeroing out my 9ºC and 20ºC air intake temp vs. timing correction columns [>_<]

You show a negative correction factor? Like I just stated my correction factor is postive in those 2 columns.

[25th AE GTi]

I forgot to mention that I get the same timing advancement weather I run 93 or 100 octane. I did some small modifications to the Optimum Engine Torque and Cylinder Filling maps last night; need to scour over logs and make some graphs to compare timing curves but I think the results might be positive. I did recall seeing up to 19 deg timing which I don't think I've ever seen before. Previously my car was NOT hitting 100% cylinder filling.

I need to do some more reading but I have a feeling I need to modify my VE table to get my engine load higher? On MAFLESS I'm maxing my engine load around 185%. Once the map maxes it just hovers around 180-185%. I was not getting into the 218% load cells, for now I scaled those load %'s down so I hit them.

[MmmBoost]

Just so you know, Optimum Engine Torque & Target Filling MUST be inverses of each other. If they are not close enough, you will cause some weird things to happen because of Torque Intervention.

[Bische]

Are you guys with timing problems meeting requested load?

EDIT: Oh i see now 25th AE GTi is already onto that

[EBG 18T]

Has anyone had luck with saving individual parts of the map, ie 'maximum ve' and them importing it to a new file? It does seem to import exactly.. Ideas?

[Bische]

I forgot to mention that I get the same timing advancement weather I run 93 or 100 octane. I did some small modifications to the Optimum Engine Torque and Cylinder Filling maps last night; need to scour over logs and make some graphs to compare timing curves but I think the results might be positive. I did recall seeing up to 19 deg timing which I don't think I've ever seen before. Previously my car was NOT hitting 100% cylinder filling.

I need to do some more reading but I have a feeling I need to modify my VE table to get my engine load higher? On MAFLESS I'm maxing my engine load around 185%. Once the map maxes it just hovers around 180-185%. I was not getting into the 218% load cells, for now I scaled those load %'s down so I hit them.

Do you have access to the KFZWOP? If you do, you should NOT be tuning your timing there.

[613B6]

Has anyone had luck with saving individual parts of the map, ie 'maximum ve' and them importing it to a new file? It does seem to import exactly.. Ideas?

yes works perfecly.

[MmmBoost]

It works for me as well.

I take this back.......I just tried exporting a map from a Stage 1 file into a current Stage 3 file and the values are ALL wrong. There values in the Stage 3 file were offset -8.

Going to email Tapp about this. It used to work just fine

[EBG 18T]

It works for me as well.

I take this back.......I just tried exporting a map from a Stage 1 file into a current Stage 3 file and the values are ALL wrong. There values in the Stage 3 file were offset -8.

Going to email Tapp about this. It used to work just fine

That was what I noticed. The values were off.

[Dolphin18T]

Just so you know, Optimum Engine Torque & Target Filling MUST be inverses of each other. If they are not close enough, you will cause some weird things to happen because of Torque Intervention.

My maps are inverse but I still have torque intervention problems. Also, the stock maps are not inverse in some areas.

Can you further explain the inverse relationship?

[judeisnotobscur]

if you don't have the funktionsrahmen here is the link.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,400.0title,.html
lots of good info in there. u can search by map for your questions and trace back to the answer.

[Dolphin18T]

if you don't have the funktionsrahmen here is the link.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,400.0title,.html
lots of good info in there. u can search by map for your questions and trace back to the answer.

Ah, didn't know there was a translated version now. Thanks!

[judeisnotobscur]

yep, english is on pg. 4 of that thread i believe

[MmmBoost]

The translated ones should be read with caution. from what I understand they were translated automatically.....so some of the translations may not be 100%.

[judeisnotobscur]

very true... common sense must be applied here.

[20vturbo]

I am mafless so my timing has nothing to do with that, I was seeing almost half of what is set in the map. Chris has seen my logs...I think my maestro will be for sale soon, I am going vipec soon as I find the funds

[judeisnotobscur]

I take it u have a way of disabling tq monitoring via maestro then.

[MmmBoost]

The b6 guys have no ability to disable or detune torque monitoring. I have asked to be able to disable it, but Chris says the car would have terrible driveability...


My timing is like Steve's (20VTurbo) it's about half of what I am actually requesting and it never seems to change.

[Hansi]

Are the timing maps in fact seperate race gas and pump gas timing maps, or are they combined in some way to get an actual timing map? I read about one engine management system combining 2 ignition maps into one. Has anyone tried to see if adjusting the race gas map, while still using the pump gas ignition map has any effect? Just a thought. Sorry about the bad english.

[SleeperAvant]

Pretty sure the two ignition timing maps are independent of one another in Maestro. You have to specify which map to use in quick settings.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Posted this in my thread but I will try here also,

Any one know why my maestro logger freezes and gives me a communication error once I go full throttle? Just driving around part throttle is fine but soon as I go full throttle it will freeze up. Tried reinstalling it but no luck.

thanks.

[SleeperAvant]

Charlie, check that your usb cable isn't pulling loose at the OBD power-tap port and at your laptop. Going WOT sometimes can jostle things. Sometimes switching to a new generic USB cable can help as well.

[MmmBoost]

The reason there are two timing maps is because of our VVT module. Not because of a "race gas" or "pump gas" setting in the ECU stock. There are actually simply two timing maps, KFZW and KFZW2......one for when cams are in their normal position and the other for when the intake cam is advanced. Some cars actually have the ability to adjust both cams, so they have even more timing maps. And for each cam position, there is also an optimum timing map.

The ECU normally begins it's timing calculations based off KFZW (Timing map 1) but when the VVT module is active and the intake cam advances, the ECU momentarily interpolates between KFZW and KFZW2. Once the cam is fully advanced, timing then comes from KFZW2. This switchover takes approximately 120ms.


I don't know how Chris wrote his code to select one or the other and I don't know how the ECU responds with the file written this way when cam advance is engaged......and that makes me uncomfortable. I have actually just loaded a file this morning that does not have the Pump/Race setting......only Timing Map, Cam Position 1 & Timing Map, Cam Position 2. So this file should work like the stock programming. I haven't had a chance to go through the log from this morning yet, but i liked the way this file felt this morning.

[SleeperAvant]

That's very informative news Chris. Thanks!

[Audi Skate Snow]

Charlie, check that your usb cable isn't pulling loose at the OBD power-tap port and at your laptop. Going WOT sometimes can jostle things. Sometimes switching to a new generic USB cable can help as well.

I checked and the light doesn't turn off or anything. Maybe I will try a new cable.. i have like 15 of them ahah.

This morning was strange. Went to start the car and fans were going on full blast (still haven't stopped) and got a vehicle speed sensor code. Cant give the car full throttle at any RPM or it starts misfiring like crazy.

Shitty thing is I have no clue where to start.

[SleeperAvant]

I checked and the light doesn't turn off or anything. Maybe I will try a new cable.. i have like 15 of them ahah.

This morning was strange. Went to start the car and fans were going on full blast (still haven't stopped) and got a vehicle speed sensor code. Cant give the car full throttle at any RPM or it starts misfiring like crazy.

Shitty thing is I have no clue where to start.

How about changing the VSS?

[Audi Skate Snow]

How about changing the VSS?

Yea that is an easy fix.. but just weird last night when I shut the car off neither one of these issues where there.

My "no clue where to start comment" is about the crazy misfires when giving the car any throttle. I really have no clue how to use maestro to the fullest and i can't seem to log anything other than idle and part throttle or it freezes.

[Hansi]

Yea that is an easy fix.. but just weird last night when I shut the car off neither one of these issues where there.

My "no clue where to start comment" is about the crazy misfires when giving the car any throttle. I really have no clue how to use maestro yet and i can't seem to log anything other than idle and part throttle or it freezes.

Interesting.. I have about the same issue, fans running constantly, and I did notice a engine speed sensor error code before disconnecting the battery the other day. Let me know if that fixes the problem.

I would start by running on wastegate pressure until you know it's running OK.

What I have done is the following (I haven't got very far, so I don't know how effective this way of tuning is, and there are probably a lot of ways doing this)
1. Set injection correction, main fuel correction and maf correction to 1,0001 (I've changed injectors and maf, so in my logic these maps should be different than provided)
2. Calculated injector constant on formula from post 73 in this thread
3. Loaded battery voltage compensation values from post on forum (from wizard if available)
4. Doing ~30 minutes driving with some light throttle, some medium throttle and some idling, adjusted injector constant and battery voltage compensation based on the LTFTs (I should probably do some WOT runs too, but I haven't dared yet, hehe). Continue to do this until LTFTs are as close to possible to 0%.
5. Haven't got here yet, but what I think I will do is adjust the injection correction or maf correction map based on logs (I think I will switch to stock injectors to adjust the maf correction maf first, then swap back to my new injectors and tune the injection correction map
6. Adjust pump gas timing map until I start seeing timing pull, then remove some timing until I see 0 timing pull
7. Maybe adjust cold start map?
I will be running a EBC so I won't have to deal with boost maps.

I don't know if this is a good way of doing it, but this is my plan anyway. Wish more people could share the way they prefer to do it so we could learn from it.
I haven't gotten very far in my tuning process though, sadly, partly because of the constantly running fans.

[judeisnotobscur]

The reason there are two timing maps is because of our VVT module. Not because of a "race gas" or "pump gas" setting in the ECU stock. There are actually simply two timing maps, KFZW and KFZW2......one for when cams are in their normal position and the other for when the intake cam is advanced. Some cars actually have the ability to adjust both cams, so they have even more timing maps. And for each cam position, there is also an optimum timing map.

The ECU normally begins it's timing calculations based off KFZW (Timing map 1) but when the VVT module is active and the intake cam advances, the ECU momentarily interpolates between KFZW and KFZW2. Once the cam is fully advanced, timing then comes from KFZW2. This switchover takes approximately 120ms.


I don't know how Chris wrote his code to select one or the other and I don't know how the ECU responds with the file written this way when cam advance is engaged......and that makes me uncomfortable. I have actually just loaded a file this morning that does not have the Pump/Race setting......only Timing Map, Cam Position 1 & Timing Map, Cam Position 2. So this file should work like the stock programming. I haven't had a chance to go through the log from this morning yet, but i liked the way this file felt this morning.
yes, rs6 has 4 timing maps like you are describing...
disabling tq monitoring will cause poor idle and hanging revs during shifts. i haven't messed with it much, just for testing. I don't have any mafless experience but i thought diabling tq monitoring would be benificial in that respect.

[MmmBoost]

I am running a MAF. OEM 4.2L V8 MAF.

I have considered underscaling my MAF and overscaling my injectors to see if it would have any effect on my timing by artificially reducing engine load

[Audi Skate Snow]

Interesting.. I have about the same issue, fans running constantly, and I did notice a engine speed sensor error code before disconnecting the battery the other day. Let me know if that fixes the problem.


Weird, you have the same problems and this is after loading maestro? Interesting. I am pretty sure my VSS nor my Fan Control module, relay or ECT's are bad since they were all recently replaced.

[MmmBoost]

Have you cleared your codes lately?

[20vturbo]

Yea that is an easy fix.. but just weird last night when I shut the car off neither one of these issues where there.

My "no clue where to start comment" is about the crazy misfires when giving the car any throttle. I really have no clue how to use maestro to the fullest and i can't seem to log anything other than idle and part throttle or it freezes.

I had this when I first upload the base file, you have to adjust the injector constant and the battery voltage, that fixed it for me

[Audi Skate Snow]

I had this when I first upload the base file, you have to adjust the injector constant and the battery voltage, that fixed it for me

which part are you referring to? the crazy misfires? If so that was pretty much my guess. I knew it wouldn't be perfect on the base file and would need tons of adjustments on the IC and Batter Voltage.

Just gotta figure out which way to adjust them.

[Hansi]

Weird, you have the same problems and this is after loading maestro? Interesting. I am pretty sure my VSS nor my Fan Control module, relay or ECT's are bad since they were all recently replaced.

Yeah, after loading Maestro. I have changed my 219 relay and both coolant sensors, havent changed Fan control module and speed sensor though.. I dont get much misfiring though, only the fans.

[Audi Skate Snow]

ya im pretty sure it is maestro related. didn't do it before the flash or even last night after the flash.. but this morning it decided to do it.

[Hansi]

Let me know if you figure it out, not sure how to troubleshoot it other than changing fan control module and speed sensor..

[Audi Skate Snow]

Have you cleared your codes lately?

Yea ... so far the VSS has not came back.. but the fans just wont stop. The VSS code was the only code.

Here is a log... thing is all out of wack. First one shows errors when trying to do a t-body adjust. 2nd one is a log... weird at idle my boost actual is more than boost specified... also coolant temp is 105-06 which its usually 98-99 on vagcom.

and of course o2 correction.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Attm-oNBOQDEdGM2YXlUOGFIOWx2UndhRjRSR1d5Y2c#gid=0

[MmmBoost]

For whatever reason I can't do a TB adaptation in Maestro. Works fine in VAGCom though.

[20vturbo]

which part are you referring to? the crazy misfires? If so that was pretty much my guess. I knew it wouldn't be perfect on the base file and would need tons of adjustments on the IC and Batter Voltage.

Just gotta figure out which way to adjust them.

mmmmbost can help you with that, he did it for me[:D]

[pape]

Yea ... so far the VSS has not came back.. but the fans just wont stop. The VSS code was the only code.

Here is a log... thing is all out of wack. First one shows errors when trying to do a t-body adjust. 2nd one is a log... weird at idle my boost actual is more than boost specified... also coolant temp is 105-06 which its usually 98-99 on vagcom.

and of course o2 correction.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Attm-oNBOQDEdGM2YXlUOGFIOWx2UndhRjRSR1d5Y2c#gid=0

your A/F drops to the 11's when your engine load goes below 25.

[Bische]

pape!

How are you doing with the ID1000's? Idle like a benz? [:)]

[Audi Skate Snow]

your A/F drops to the 11's when your engine load goes below 25.

ya that log was just to show all the work i have ahead of me.

Since I have loaded a new map and it is 10X better. My LTFT on idle are only 4 now and part throttle is 6 which isn't to shabby.

One thing I noticed and saw a few people post about. When my n75 is hooked up.. the boost creeps to 5lbs and then just sky rockets to like 30lbs. It actually popped my brake boost hose off and hit 36 lbs. So for now I disconnected the N75 and running off wastegate pressure until i dial in AFR etc.

Anyone have that problem and fix the BOOST maps?

[pape]

pape!

How are you doing with the ID1000's? Idle like a benz? [:)]

Well I actualy have a great idle rock solid A/F and RPMs with a 044 intank and returnless. I actually have the car runing verry solid up tu 28psi with 11.3-11.5 A/F. The car feel verry fast with Water meth and ~18 degrees of timing up top(8200rpm's). The only issue I still have is the A/F drops when the load drops just like every one ealse with big injectors. But I still havent looked into it.

[MmmBoost]

Adjust your minimum injector pulsewidth to around 0.4

[EBG 18T]

ya that log was just to show all the work i have ahead of me.

Since I have loaded a new map and it is 10X better. My LTFT on idle are only 4 now and part throttle is 6 which isn't to shabby.

One thing I noticed and saw a few people post about. When my n75 is hooked up.. the boost creeps to 5lbs and then just sky rockets to like 30lbs. It actually popped my brake boost hose off and hit 36 lbs. So for now I disconnected the N75 and running off wastegate pressure until i dial in AFR etc.

Anyone have that problem and fix the BOOST maps?

My boost maps are pretty solid now. The tapp provided map was very on/off, I had to change the whole thing. I couldn't drive the tapp map. I peak at 26# and hold solid to redline.

[MmmBoost]

Boost PID maps are among the hardest to tune due to the wide variety of wastegate configurations as well as N75 response curves. You could be running two identical setups, but if one setup has a wastegate set at 10 PSI and one at 15......it will not work.

[Audi Skate Snow]

yea.. for now i just disconnected the N75... shit creeps to 5lbs then just spiked high as hell.

Once I learn more I can adjust the boost maps... first thing is to dial in AFR across the board. Is there any pointers to doing the boost PID maps? or something i should start out with.

With out the n75 connected it is very linear and smooth/solid power.

[613B6]

Boost PID maps are among the hardest to tune due to the wide variety of wastegate configurations as well as N75 response curves. You could be running two identical setups, but if one setup has a wastegate set at 10 PSI and one at 15......it will not work.
Ain't that the truth! Your can ge the car dialed in 2 hrs and spend another 3 adjusting target filling, VE, PID and duty maps to get the perfect drivability and solid boost.

Bananas post in the eurodyne forum is by far the best starting point. Actually all his sticky are very helpful.

[CaRtharsis]

Ain't that the truth! Your can ge the car dialed in 2 hrs and spend another 3 adjusting target filling, VE, PID and duty maps to get the perfect drivability and solid boost.

Bananas post in the eurodyne forum is by far the best starting point. Actually all his sticky are very helpful.

Sigh... If only here were someone in town that could help me with all this.... ;-)

[Audi Skate Snow]

what do you guys have your min injector pulse width set to... currently mine is like .89 which from what I am reading seems high for 750cc injectors (870 @ 4bar)

[MmmBoost]

That's way too high.

I have mine set at 0.4ms

[Dolphin18T]

Boost PID maps are among the hardest to tune due to the wide variety of wastegate configurations as well as N75 response curves. You could be running two identical setups, but if one setup has a wastegate set at 10 PSI and one at 15......it will not work.

This is my problem. I've been trying to work on it for a while, but I still have the exact symptoms that Charlie described. I'm just not sure how to adjust the boost maps. I understand how a PID control works, but I don't get why we are only allowed one of the variables. I assume the "Boost PID" map is just P variable?

[Audi Skate Snow]

that is what i thought...

mine is currently .898779

should i lower it down to .4 exactly and see what happens?

[MmmBoost]

There are other values....we just don't have access to them.



that is what i thought...

mine is currently .898779

should i lower it down to .4 exactly and see what happens?

0.4 is a ballpark. There are very few "EXACTLY's" in tuning

[Audi Skate Snow]

true.. i will try it.

Would you suggest doing this first before logging and apply any histogram traces?

[MmmBoost]

Yes. This is one of your fundamental values that need to be set correctly otherwise you're going to throw off the data you get from logging. Lucking the Min. Injector Pulsewidth is not an "exact" value.....more of a ballpark, but with it set too high, you're going to lose O2 correction when the ECU requests very short injection pulsewidths.