[Discussion] Gear Ratio for 01E & 01A

[iloveturbo]

Hi guys,

I been looking into the possibility of developing a full set of custom gear aiming to improve 1/4 mile time(My setup - HTA3586, 2.1L, B6 3.0 01E). I noticed EVO with has somewhat similar powerband achieve 11s (or even 10s) rather easily in comparison to Audi/vw platform. Now I am not a expert in transmission or anything but I think the gear ratio in those cars are much better suited for that propose (close-ratio). Having said that, I would like to hear your opinion on what gear ratio would you like to see in the B5/B6 platform that would further elevate our platform? I mean think about it. If by swapping out 3rd and 4th gear in the 5-speed 01A would shave off 0.5 seconds, I think it would be a worthy options for the guys who having put so much heart and soul into their builds.

I took the time to plug the ratios I found around the net into gear ratio calculators. I thought some of you guys may find them useful.

1.8T 5-SPD B6
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBrhD-O6I/AAAAAAAAA-g/Wkon-nBX2NI/s800/1.8T%205-SPD%20B6.PNG.jpg



1.8T 6-SPD Quattro (B6, B7)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBrLWigFI/AAAAAAAAA-c/imJ4gL3lEbY/s800/1.8T%206-SPD%20Quattro%20%28B6%2C%20B7%29.PNG.jpg



B5 S4
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBqwVXZjI/AAAAAAAAA-Y/C0DS_ugUZfk/s800/B5%20S4.PNG.jpg



B6 3.0 01E
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBqfZz5zI/AAAAAAAAA-U/ZqpjzRttVAQ/s800/B6%203.0.PNG.jpg



B6 S4 0A3 [added 12.15.2010]
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm4SN_twrI/AAAAAAAAA_g/woEiujgqQXI/s800/B6-S4.jpg


Advanced automotion 01E Close-ratio
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBpgncMVI/AAAAAAAAA-M/0shYVYer3x4/s800/Advanced%20automotion%2001E%20Close-ratio.PNG.jpg



Advanced automotion Drag Race Dog box
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBpOtD-UI/AAAAAAAAA-I/XBQCp6PIWlU/s800/Advanced%20automotion%20Drag%20Race%20box.PNG.jpg



EVO7
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TPvBosXZWAI/AAAAAAAAA-E/djIIKA0hfQI/s800/evo%207.PNG.jpg



AA suggested gear ratio [added 12.15.2010]
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm4Rl2QZvI/AAAAAAAAA_c/-SeOFHt321k/s800/AA%20suggested%20gear%20ratio.jpg



Looks like Advanced Automtion Dog box recommended gear ratios are fairly close to EVO's offering.

Please chime in if you have any thoughts or experience in this regard.

-Howard

[hercfe]

For the price involved, get a new car if you want a drag car-seriously. Aside from that, though, if the input and output shafts are the same on each trans, I'd just swap the 3rd and 4th from the 5spd into the 3.0 6spd and leave everything else alone internally, then change to a 4.11 final drive. You DONT want a dogbox on a car that you drive everyday, i promise you that. Also, if you look at the ratios vs speed vs rpm, you'll notice that your trans, as well as the B5s4 and the 1.8t 6 spd are all very well suited to an 11ish second trap time as it will put you right at the top of 4th according to your shift point of 7500-i assume your shift points are based on peak power production since you are talking about drag racing. The less amount of times you have to shift the better for sure. The Dog Box is just about in line with that. Honestly, I think a 4.11 final drive would do you wonders alone, without needing to go inside the trans. Also, a WOTBOX will easily knock .5 seconds off of an 12 sec et. The EVO trans is really not designed well for drag racing. It shines in tight corners where it can easily be kept in the sweet spot. You have to remember that transmission gear ratios are designed around the specific power of the engine and its peak power rpm.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Many people run the B5 A4 transmission that have good power (they are cheaper to replace and you will be replacing them when you break yours) which has different gearing (longer 4th and 5th), and as for the post above:


very well suited to an 11ish second trap time as it will put you right at the top of 4th according to your shift point of 7500-

You won't be at the top of 4th with a B5 A4 tranny for sure, I can't remember how it was with my B6 A4 tranny, I believe I am around 6200rpm (my limiter is at 8000 and I shift around 7800) when I have crossed the line so far at the 1/4 mile. My car will do right at 150mph in 4th at 8000rpm for reference and I think 7500 is at 140mph.

[iloveturbo]

For the price involved, get a new car if you want a drag car-seriously.

True to some degree but then, we are assuming we are sticking with this platform because that's what we love. As for the Dog box, it's out of the question. It's not suited for daily purpose.


Many people run the B5 A4 transmission that have good power (they are cheaper to replace and you will be replacing them when you break yours) which has different gearing (longer 4th and 5th)

David, based on your experiences you would say taller 4th helped your time?

**********************-

Now, does anyone happen to know the maximum operating temperature is like in 01A /01E transmission?

Please help as this would greatly affect the type of surface coating we would need to apply. Thank you in advance.

-Howard

[A4 TSCHUSS]

No I would say the b5 tranny hurt the time, gear is to long and car is lower in the rpm band going through the traps. Another example I can give you is Mike Hood swapped a b5 2.8 transmission (even longer gearing than b5 1.8t, more closely resembling the b5 s4) out of his car for the b5 1.8t again and gained like 7mph and almost a half second if I remember right.

No matter what you do you are going to have to shift to 4th so I would want the shortest gears to get there.

[dougyfresh]

Now, does anyone happen to know the maximum operating temperature is like in 01A /01E transmission?

Please help as this would greatly affect the type of surface coating we would need to apply. Thank you in advance.


considering Redline MT90 (http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7) has a flash point of 465F then I'd probably assume nothing higher than that. Maybe estimate 500F to be conservative? Otherwise, I have no idea. I do know the case is too hot to touch after many hours of usage.

[dwalmop]

OP, what source did you find all of your ratios from?

[iloveturbo]

considering Redline MT90 has a flash point of 465F then I'd probably assume nothing higher than that. Maybe estimate 500F to be conservative? Otherwise, I have no idea. I do know the case is too hot to touch after many hours of usage.

Doug, Thanks for the info. That makes sense.


No I would say the b5 tranny hurt the time, gear is to long and car is lower in the rpm band going through the traps. Another example I can give you is Mike Hood swapped a b5 2.8 transmission (even longer gearing than b5 1.8t, more closely resembling the b5 s4) out of his car for the b5 1.8t again and gained like 7mph and almost a half second if I remember right.

No matter what you do you are going to have to shift to 4th so I would want the shortest gears to get there.

So shorter gears are better (3rd and 4th). Are you trapping around 116~120mph with your new Precision turbo?


OP, what source did you find all of your ratios from?

Audigeeks (http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=386.0)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

116.8mph with my 30r, I had lots of clutch/tranny problems when I went once with new turbo.

[Haenszel20v]

I'm interested in helping to make a more even spread(ratio-wise), affordable gearset for 01e's if anyone knows a company that can help. I would love a short 1-2 and 2-3 drop. These cars would be a LOT more competitive then. No sense in even screwing around with 01a's if you're trying to make a strong gearset.

The AA set would be great, but anything over $5k is too much.

I believe clint knew some guy............ he never came back with any info though........ ???

[Kamin]

I'm interested in helping to make a more even spread(ratio-wise), affordable gearset for 01e's if anyone knows a company that can help. I would love a short 1-2 and 2-3 drop. These cars would be a LOT more competitive then. No sense in even screwing around with 01a's if you're trying to make a strong gearset.


Why not the 01A?

[iloveturbo]

I'm interested in helping to make a more even spread(ratio-wise), affordable gearset for 01e's if anyone knows a company that can help. I would love a short 1-2 and 2-3 drop. These cars would be a LOT more competitive then. No sense in even screwing around with 01a's if you're trying to make a strong gearset.

The AA set would be great, but anything over $5k is too much.

I believe clint knew some guy............ he never came back with any info though........ ???


Brian, if you are offered a chance with full custom gear set for 01E. What ratio will you go with for 1.8T, 2.7T, and your VR6T.

-Howard

[iloveturbo]

Why not the 01A?

After a brief conversation with David and checking out his threads (http://www.audizine.com/forum/search.php?searchid=656280)[search under his name, title: transmission]. I think 01A may not be the best candidate for gear buildup. The output shaft could be the weak link, not just the gear itself (to my understanding.)

-Howard

[Kamin]

I just read about that in another thread actually. That sucks.

[Haenszel20v]

Why not the 01A?

at stated earlier the width of the gears simply isn't there. No matter what you do they're going to break because each gear itself isn't wide enough(less material).




Brian, if you are offered a chance with full custom gear set for 01E. What ratio will you go with for 1.8T, 2.7T, and your VR6T.

-Howard

I'm not sure right now. Looking at the AA one it seems to be pretty good, although it requires 4 shifts which isn't the greatest.

PAR has 2 sets ** the first of which I believe to be what AA is selling.

Ratios:


- Option 1: 3.10, 2.18, 1.57, 1.18, 0.96, 0.85
- Option 2: 3.10, 1.92, 1.31, 0.95


option 2 has a WICKED spread to keep the quarter in 4 gears(148mph in 4th at 7500). The problem with this is that it still has a ~2800rpm 1->2 and 2383rpm 2->3 drop. Getting first below 2500 and 3->4 closer to 2000rpm drop would help significantly. Obviously brings us right back to the issue of having to shift into 5th again though.

[drjonez]

Some great info here, I'm save those images now!

What are you trap speeds? Best 60'? Your 19s aren't helping I'd imagine...

A few thoughts looking at ratios- the first to second RPM drop may be putting you out of the powerband, which will kill your ET. Other than that, you're going to be shifting to 4th regardless of what transmission you're using. Keep the RPM drops reasonable.

[Haenszel20v]

This might work. Keep stock 5th and 6th so 5th doesn't max out at 147(at 7500), and would cut the cost down not having to buy 2 extra gears. Damn close to evo gearing which has been proven to work well with the same powerband.

3.1 2226 46
2.18 2099 65
1.57 1863 90
1.18 2034 120
0.86 1570 164
0.68 - - - 207

4.11

I dunno, just throwing around things in my head.

Sorry, I can't upload screenshots at work. This is all I got.

[dougyfresh]

I believe clint knew some guy............ he never came back with any info though........ ???

Wasn't that Jim? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/305365

Or are you thinking of someone altogether different?

[Haenszel20v]

Wasn't that Jim? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/305365

Or are you thinking of someone altogether different?

I dunno, Clint was all "Yo bro, I got dis dood in in china dat knows this dood who owns a gear factory, he's totally down bro" one day..... never heard anything more.

[dougyfresh]

I dunno, Clint was all "Yo bro, I got dis dood in in china dat knows this dood who owns a gear factory, he's totally down bro" one day..... never heard anything more.

Now you have heard.. Its the OP in this thread [:D]


(hahaha.. I can totally see Clint saying that in those words. Complete with the two 'in's. haha)

[dwalmop]

Audigeeks (http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=386.0)[/QUOTE]

Thanks - I've been trying to do some research myself.

[vinny.dtw]

I dunno, Clint was all "Yo bro, I got dis dood in in china dat knows this dood who owns a gear factory, he's totally down bro" one day..... never heard anything more.

raf out roud

[iloveturbo]

I dunno, Clint was all "Yo bro, I got dis dood in in china dat knows this dood who owns a gear factory, he's totally down bro" one day..... never heard anything more.

Taiwan... not China... but whaeva that "dood" Clint iz referring to would be me yo... (in Clint's voice)


This might work. Keep stock 5th and 6th so 5th doesn't max out at 147(at 7500), and would cut the cost down not having to buy 2 extra gears. Damn close to evo gearing which has been proven to work well with the same powerband.

3.1 2226 46
2.18 2099 65
1.57 1863 90
1.18 2034 120
0.86 1570 164
0.68 - - - 207

4.11

I dunno, just throwing around things in my head.

Sorry, I can't upload screenshots at work. This is all I got.

Brian, that looks good. But for the pure performance perspective, I say AA dog box ratio is pretty close to optimal for quarter mile.

-Howard

[Sales@RAI]

FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

EDIT: It has a slightly longer first and second, and a shorter 3rd and 4th

[iloveturbo]

FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

EDIT: It has a slightly longer first and second, and a shorter 3rd and 4th

Clint, does that mean you will be joining the 01E bandwagon soon too? [:D]

Do iiiit!

-Howard

[a408]

in

[A4 TSCHUSS]

FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

EDIT: It has a slightly longer first and second, and a shorter 3rd and 4th

Pretty sure Jeff Lee has the B6 S4 tranny in his car, he could tell you for sure what needs to be swapped and how it works. The gearing is the same (final drive was, 3.89) but is the rear diff the same as in size wise unlike the B5 S4 how the front is longer? And the axle connection points are the same size or are pressed in like the A4s and can be swapped with ours?

[AfourQ]

FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

EDIT: It has a slightly longer first and second, and a shorter 3rd and 4th

That is what i want to use as well! Not so easy to find at a reasonable price.....could always steal my wife's though :P....

[dougyfresh]

Clint, does that mean you will be joining the 01E bandwagon soon too? [:D]

Do iiiit!

-Howard

No, because the B6 S4 is not an 01E.




FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

EDIT: It has a slightly longer first and second, and a shorter 3rd and 4th

You need shift linkage, shifter, trans, trans mount, prop shaft and maybe front driveshafts (not sure on that one). Rear diff should be the same as your 5spd.

[dougyfresh]

Pretty sure Jeff Lee has the B6 S4 tranny in his car, he could tell you for sure what needs to be swapped and how it works. The gearing is the same (final drive was, 3.89) but is the rear diff the same as in size wise unlike the B5 S4 how the front is longer? And the axle connection points are the same size or are pressed in like the A4s and can be swapped with ours?

Jeff has an 01E.

[Dan[FN]6262]

isnt the B6S4 trans a 01X or something?

[iloveturbo]

No, because the B6 S4 is not an 01E.

Opps, my bad. Thank you for clearing it up.


5857;5990222']isnt the B6S4 trans a 01X or something?

0A3

Source: JHM rebuild thread (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/307929-JHM-Manual-Transmission-rebuild-service-and-rebuild-kits-for-the-B6-B7-S4-and-RS4!)

[Scotty@Advanced]

FYI, doing a little more research on the subject but it appears that to do a 6 speed B6 S4 swap all you would need is the trans and linkage and every single other thing would bolt right up. They can handle some serious power

But not nearly as much as the 01E. Also the 01E was installed in the B6, so you can use those parts to make it a drop in.

[vintagespin]

Ugh so much misinformation with transmissions, it makes my head hurt. Not saying I know anything about 'em, just that everyone is posting something different for gear ratios, final drives, transmission codes, and requirements for swaps. I guess I'm just stating the obvious though.

[Scotty@Advanced]

at stated earlier the width of the gears simply isn't there. No matter what you do they're going to break because each gear itself isn't wide enough(less material).

I'm not sure right now. Looking at the AA one it seems to be pretty good, although it requires 4 shifts which isn't the greatest.

PAR has 2 sets ** the first of which I believe to be what AA is selling.

Ratios:


- Option 1: 3.10, 2.18, 1.57, 1.18, 0.96, 0.85
- Option 2: 3.10, 1.92, 1.31, 0.95


option 2 has a WICKED spread to keep the quarter in 4 gears(148mph in 4th at 7500). The problem with this is that it still has a ~2800rpm 1->2 and 2383rpm 2->3 drop. Getting first below 2500 and 3->4 closer to 2000rpm drop would help significantly. Obviously brings us right back to the issue of having to shift into 5th again though.

Yes we have PAR make all our custom stuff but that is about to change, for the better and less expensive.

I've put the following ratios in a few cars that look very good on paper.. These work GREAT for the larger engines that have some torque, but the high first gear might be detrimental to a 1.8. The 4th gear is just tall enough to avoid a shift into 5th with a slightly elevated rev limiter.

First 2.8
Second 1.75
third 1.23
Fourth .97
5th .81
6th .68

The cost for one of these with the stock S4 5th and 6th gears is right near $5,000 bucks.

[Haenszel20v]

Ugh so much misinformation with transmissions, it makes my head hurt. Not saying I know anything about 'em, just that everyone is posting something different for gear ratios, final drives, transmission codes, and requirements for swaps. I guess I'm just stating the obvious though.

I don't see much misinformation at all besides speaking of the b6 s4 trans which was like two posts. This is a brainstorming thread about creating a better gearbox.

[dougyfresh]

I don't see much misinformation at all besides speaking of the b6 s4 trans which was like two posts. This is a brainstorming thread about creating a better gearbox.

and guess who started that? [:D]

[Scotty@Advanced]

Our thermometer registers 210-230 degrees on our test bench with no air cooling at a 8KW load and 3500 rpm. Under abuse 300 degree temps are likely not out of the usual.

[dougyfresh]

Our thermometer registers 210-230 degrees on our test bench with no air cooling at a 8KW load and 3500 rpm. Under abuse 300 degree temps are likely not out of the usual.

I was a little too conservative then. Not a bad first guess though.

Glad you are contributing to this thread, Scotty. Your expertise is warrantied. [up]

[vintagespin]

I don't see much misinformation at all besides speaking of the b6 s4 trans which was like two posts. This is a brainstorming thread about creating a better gearbox.

I didn't mean this thread specifically. It was more of a blanket statement for what I've seen in the B6 section.

[dougyfresh]

I didn't mean this thread specifically. It was more of a blanket statement for what I've seen in the B6 section.

Because there are a few threads that talk about this same topic. They should be combined. It is kind of annoying but that is how the B6 A4 section rolls 9 times out of 10. Somewhat organized chaos.

[iloveturbo]

First 2.8
Second 1.75
third 1.23
Fourth .97
5th .81
6th .68

The cost for one of these with the stock S4 5th and 6th gears is right near $5,000 bucks.

That first gear looks a bit tall for 1.8T

I don't have access to my excel calculator file on this computer but I will update the graph along with stock B6 S4 ratio soon.

More to come...

-Howard

[Haenszel20v]

Yes we have PAR make all our custom stuff but that is about to change, for the better and less expensive.

I've put the following ratios in a few cars that look very good on paper.. These work GREAT for the larger engines that have some torque, but the high first gear might be detrimental to a 1.8. The 4th gear is just tall enough to avoid a shift into 5th with a slightly elevated rev limiter.

First 2.8
Second 1.75
third 1.23
Fourth .97
5th .81
6th .68

The cost for one of these with the stock S4 5th and 6th gears is right near $5,000 bucks.


This looks very solid. Its a great middle ground. One thing I note is perhaps bringing that 3rd gear up to 1.3 or so will make the 2->3 and 3->4 shift even at around 2000rpm drop (not sure if the tooth ratios will allow a ratio of ~1.3). And 4th will allow high 140's, 150 even.

2.8 2925
1.75 2006
1.3 1980
.97 1287
.81 1252
.68

[Scotty@Advanced]

This looks very solid. Its a great middle ground. One thing I note is perhaps bringing that 3rd gear up to 1.3 or so will make the 2->3 and 3->4 shift even at around 2000rpm drop (not sure if the tooth ratios will allow a ratio of ~1.3). And 4th will allow high 140's, 150 even.

2.8 2925
1.75 2006
1.3 1980
.97 1287
.81 1252
.68

I chose the 1.23 3rd to stick with a factory part. Going to a 1.32 third, we have choices of 1.07 for the fourth gear or .93 for the 4th gear with the factory parts. Or spend another $2500 and have 3-4 gears manufactured.

[Scotty@Advanced]

I was a little too conservative then. Not a bad first guess though.

Glad you are contributing to this thread, Scotty. Your expertise is warrantied. [up]

I hope to have a thermal imaging of the 01E as it's being run from cold to operating temps. It's rather interesting that the first part to heat up is the rear of the input shaft.

Thanks BTW for the compliment.


Because there are a few threads that talk about this same topic. They should be combined. It is kind of annoying but that is how the B6 A4 section rolls 9 times out of 10. Somewhat organized chaos.

This would be better as a sticky in the transmission and driveline forum but that forum isn't traveled too often.

[Haenszel20v]

I chose the 1.23 3rd to stick with a factory part. Going to a 1.32 third, we have choices of 1.07 for the fourth gear or .93 for the 4th gear with the factory parts. Or spend another $2500 and have 3-4 gears manufactured.

so these are stock gears?

[Scotty@Advanced]

so these are stock gears?

Yes the 3-6 gears are OEM Audi/VW parts.

For references the following 3-4 gear combos are available as regular parts from Audi. I might have missed one I'll have to check my notes.


3rd 4th
1.23 1.07 Stock S4/A6 EDU
1.23 .97 5 speed
1.23 .87 European TDI
1.32 .93 European TDI
1.32 1.07 RS2/RS4/S8/S6/B6 3.0 liter
1.43 1.07 Allroad/Allroad TDI


The price for the hollow shaft and 3rd/4th gears vary but run between $1200-$1500 for factory parts for new. but I generally have serviceable units in stock.

[Sales@RAI]

You need shift linkage, shifter, trans, trans mount, prop shaft and maybe front driveshafts (not sure on that one). Rear diff should be the same as your 5spd.

I understand this but I looked at a B6 S4 thread with a picture of his trans and to be honest I don't know if anyone has measured an 01A next to an 01A because they look VERY similar in length. If the stock front axles and driveshaft worked that would be huge.

I could be wrong Doug,have you verified the 0A3 next to an 01A?


But not nearly as much as the 01E. Also the 01E was installed in the B6, so you can use those parts to make it a drop in.

Right but if this trans is plug and play that changes things. And, these B6 S4 guys are making assloads of torque off the line on a very heavy car with no problems. We don't need a trans to hold 800awhp, just 450ish

[Scotty@Advanced]

I understand this but I looked at a B6 S4 thread with a picture of his trans and to be honest I don't know if anyone has measured an 01A next to an 01A because they look VERY similar in length. If the stock front axles and driveshaft worked that would be huge.

I could be wrong Doug,have you verified the 0A3 next to an 01A?

Right but if this trans is plug and play that changes things. And, these B6 S4 guys are making assloads of torque off the line on a very heavy car with no problems. We don't need a trans to hold 800awhp, just 450ish

The 0A3 is similar in size to the 01E. You will still need axles mounts etc.. The 0A3 also has issues of it's own and isn't particularly inexpensive on the used market.

If you look at the Porsche Boxster S guys their 0A2's are breaking because the rev gear is held together by a plastic bracket that breaks, meaning no reverse.

[Sales@RAI]

No, because the B6 S4 is not an 01E.





You need shift linkage, shifter, trans, trans mount, prop shaft and maybe front driveshafts (not sure on that one). Rear diff should be the same as your 5spd.


But not nearly as much as the 01E. Also the 01E was installed in the B6, so you can use those parts to make it a drop in.


The 0A3 is similar in size to the 01E. You will still need axles mounts etc.. The 0A3 also has issues of it's own and isn't particularly inexpensive on the used market.

If you look at the Porsche Boxster S guys their 0A2's are breaking because the rev gear is held together by a plastic bracket that breaks, meaning no reverse.

Shit. Well there goes my theory. I hear you on the porsche thing but I've never heard of anything happening to these S4 guys on stock transmission launching a heavier car with more Torque

[speeding-g60]

Another example I can give you is Mike Hood swapped a b5 2.8 transmission (even longer gearing than b5 1.8t, more closely resembling the b5 s4) out of his car for the b5 1.8t again and gained like 7mph and almost a half second if I remember right.

i know alot of you guys dont like Mike, and he isnt here anymore, dont mean all of us dont still talk to him.

his current trans is the same 1-2 gears, and he is using 3 and i think also 4 from a Coupe Quattro gearbox i sold and sent to him. staying with the 3.89 if thats what his car has. his car is at FR gettin worked on now....


now, for myself. i have a custom gearset picked out and when the AUD is less strong i will get it. right now i rock a Scott 01E Euro TDI 6 speed. i get 1.46 to 1.59 pretty regular on 60's, in my CQ that is 2850 race weight. it goes 0-60 mph in 2.45 seconds. it is a lowly 1.8T makes >600 AWHP. welded center diff, locked rear. my bests were 10.05 @ 138 and 10.22 @ 139. trapped in 4th around 6700 RPM or so IIRC.

now gonna rock a 2.0L stroker and turn it up some..... see what we see.

lets see...... i think this is the custom gearset calcs. alot of factors go into choosing custom gearing. overall goal, purpose, weight, tire, rpm, powerband, lots of stuff to look at. mine i am gearing it for low 9 sec and less than 150mph on a 24.5" tire with my 4cyl drag only car. this chart is to 8500, but i may take it out to 9k rpm if need be. depends on the next dyno session really..

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/GearsStockvsPARvsCustom-1.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/AudiCustomGearsedited.jpg

and since no thread is interesting til a picture gets posted, imma be that WHORE and show my shit. yess, it really does try to pull the pass front tire off the ground.


http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/PIR%20drag%20pix/DSC_6483.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/PIR%20drag%20pix/DSC_6487.jpg

[speeding-g60]

but it is the general consensus that the OEM 3.50/1.89 sucks major balls.

[pape]

I always wanted to know if it is posible to swap final drives.

would one be able to swap an All road rear diff and the tranny final drive into a 01A or a 01E into a B6 chassis?

[Sales@RAI]

0A3 is 34" front to back. David, how long is your spare 01A?

[iloveturbo]

B6 S4 0A3

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm4SN_twrI/AAAAAAAAA_g/woEiujgqQXI/s800/B6-S4.jpg


AA suggested gear ratio 12.15.2010

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm4Rl2QZvI/AAAAAAAAA_c/-SeOFHt321k/s800/AA%20suggested%20gear%20ratio.jpg


B5 S4 01E / B6 3.0 01E [shifting@8000rpm]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm60qIej-I/AAAAAAAAA_8/dpXUFkQi1rY/s800/b5-01E-vs-b6-3.0-01E.jpg

B5 S4 01E / B6 3.0L 01E / AA PAR Dog box ratio / AA suggested ratio [shifting@8000rpm]

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQm60QlKryI/AAAAAAAAA_4/EvCeQRm71jw/s800/01E-gear-shifting-comparsion.jpg

-Howard

[dougyfresh]

0A3 is 34" front to back. David, how long is your spare 01A?

31inches and change. Closer to 32inches.

bellhousing face to rear output tailshaft flange.

Make sure you get the matching center prop shaft as the 01A one won't work...

[A4 TSCHUSS]

0A3 is 34" front to back. David, how long is your spare 01A?

31" from front of bell housing to the very rear where drive shaft bolts up.

[Sales@RAI]

31inches and change. Closer to 32inches.

bellhousing face to rear output tailshaft flange.

Make sure you get the matching center prop shaft as the 01A one won't work...

Dammit I was hoping they would work. Maybe I could get an adapter machined. That would mean you'd just need the trans, shifter rods, and adapter. And the gearing on the 0A3 is awesome

[SleeperAvant]

Dammit I was hoping they would work. Maybe I could get an adapter machined. That would mean you'd just need the trans, shifter rods, and adapter. And the gearing on the 0A3 is awesome

That'd be cool, then you can start selling kits!

[Sales@RAI]

I gotta find out if there is a difference between the 6 speed B6 A4 driveshafts and 6 speed B6 S4

I think the 0A3 is easily the best stock option

[SleeperAvant]

Alright.

[dougyfresh]

I gotta find out if there is a difference between the 6 speed B6 A4 driveshafts and 6 speed B6 S4

I think the 0A3 is easily the best stock option

Did you read what Scotty said (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/401119-Discussion-Gear-Ratio-for-01E-amp-01A?p=5990537&viewfull=1#post5990537)? The 0A3 outright is expensive. I have seen them selling for about as much as you can get an entire 2002 A4 3.0 6spd (01E) drivetrain for. Might as well buy the 01E drivetrain.

IF you think of an adapter it can't go between the bellhousing and the block. That will shift the front driveshafts back a few inches on the trans which is not good for the CVs. You also have clutch stack issues now. IF you put an adapter between the tailshaft flange and the center propshaft make sure the bolts can withstand the torque loads since the bolts just got a lot longer (a few inches). I don't like the idea either way though. Its prone to breaking more things as you are introducing a weaker link. It'll be better to have a driveshaft shop lengthen the 01A prop shaft. By the time you factor those extra costs in you are back to where I would like to be.... buying an 01E drivetrain out of an early B6 3.0.

[Sales@RAI]

Did you read what Scotty said (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/401119-Discussion-Gear-Ratio-for-01E-amp-01A?p=5990537&viewfull=1#post5990537)? The 0A3 outright is expensive. I have seen them selling for about as much as you can get an entire 2002 A4 3.0 6spd (01E) drivetrain for. Might as well buy the 01E drivetrain.

IF you think of an adapter it can't go between the bellhousing and the block. That will shift the front driveshafts back a few inches on the trans which is not good for the CVs. You also have clutch stack issues now. IF you put an adapter between the tailshaft flange and the center propshaft make sure the bolts can withstand the torque loads since the bolts just got a lot longer (a few inches). I don't like the idea either way though. Its prone to breaking more things as you are introducing a weaker link. It'll be better to have a driveshaft shop lengthen the 01A prop shaft. By the time you factor those extra costs in you are back to where I would like to be.... buying an 01E drivetrain out of an early B6 3.0.

1. The 01E gearing sucks
2. I can get an 0A3 for ~$1k and I don't need axles or rear diff
3. 0A3 gearing is arguably better than 01A 1.8T

[Dan[FN]6262]

buying an 01E drivetrain out of an early B6 3.0.

exactly

[Dan[FN]6262]

1. The 01E gearing sucks


just rev it out more, duh. lol

[Sales@RAI]

5857;5994605']just rev it out more, duh. lol

this post is so useless lol. Did you read what I wrote?

[dougyfresh]

1. The 01E gearing sucks
2. I can get an 0A3 for ~$1k and I don't need axles or rear diff
3. 0A3 gearing is arguably better than 01A 1.8T

By the time you factor in the design/analysis/test effort to get an 0A3 into a B6 A4 that had an 01A [as is] without breaking anything when you launch the car I am willing to bet your costs will equal but most likely exceed that of other alternatives (01E being one whether you think the gearing sucks or not).

And until you are going faster than Aaron I don't see why the 01E doesn't work.

[Haenszel20v]

Aaron, talk to ILoveTurbo about making up that gearset with those ratios. I like it, a lot. Still can irk out 140 in 4th. And its drops 900rpm off of the 1->2, and more than 400 off of the 2->3. Presuming a 7500rpm shift as the original charts in this thread show.

Howard, If you're making a dogbox, I think the ratios Aaron has are the ticket. The guy who took the time to figure them out knows how to make cars go VERY fast.

[Scotty@Advanced]

1. The 01E gearing sucks
2. I can get an 0A3 for ~$1k and I don't need axles or rear diff
3. 0A3 gearing is arguably better than 01A 1.8T

Going from 01A to 0A3 you will need axles, shifter and a prop shaft plus mounts.
You also need to budget some dough for special tools and updated to the 0A3..
You will still be dealing with a gearbox that has not been proven to handle over 1,000 hp yet.

I suggest you do it since it's such an awesome idea and report back.

[drjonez]

Going from 01A to 0A3 you will need axles, shifter and a prop shaft plus mounts.
You also need to budget some dough for special tools and updated to the 0A3..
You will still be dealing with a gearbox that has not been proven to handle over 1,000 hp yet.

I suggest you do it since it's such an awesome idea and report back.

0A3 in hand....conversion coming whenever I get time.

[Sales@RAI]

0A3 in hand....conversion coming whenever I get time.

lol was all that "spoken for" stuff for you? Also, how much did it cost to get a salvage S4?

[Sales@RAI]

Going from 01A to 0A3 you will need axles, shifter and a prop shaft plus mounts.
You also need to budget some dough for special tools and updated to the 0A3..
You will still be dealing with a gearbox that has not been proven to handle over 1,000 hp yet.

I suggest you do it since it's such an awesome idea and report back.

Are you sure that

1. Axles
2. Mounts

are different?

[Dan[FN]6262]

this post is so useless lol. Did you read what I wrote?

lol your posts are useless too.... an adapter, seriously?



lmao

[Scotty@Advanced]

Are you sure that

1. Axles
2. Mounts

are different?

According to the parts catalog yes they are. The 0A3 is also quite a bit wider than the 01A. the rear mount is also different.

[Sales@RAI]

5857;5994849']lol your posts are useless too.... an adapter, seriously?



lmao

plug n' play son. And the gearing on the 01E sucks

[Scotty@Advanced]

0A3 is 34" front to back. David, how long is your spare 01A?

Wow the 0A3 is even longer than the 01E.

[Scotty@Advanced]

I always wanted to know if it is posible to swap final drives.

would one be able to swap an All road rear diff and the tranny final drive into a 01A or a 01E into a B6 chassis?

It is possible to use an allroad C5 rear end in a B6. You can also use the 4.35 final drive in an 01E, or use the allroad gearbox as well.

[Sales@RAI]

Wow the 0A3 is even longer than the 01E.

cause its better [:p]

[Dan[FN]6262]

plug n' play son. And the gearing on the 01E sucks

your gearing sucks. [:)]



lol

[dougyfresh]

cause its better [:p]

stop arguing with opinions and start arguing with facts...

[drjonez]

lol was all that "spoken for" stuff for you? Also, how much did it cost to get a salvage S4?

Of course the stuff was for me! ;) Automatic really sucks....time for something better. I'm just trying to decide if I want to use the FX700 I have in hand or get some different discs for it...

A salvage S4 can be had for a nice price....if you look.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I have two questions.

1. Why are things like worrying about holding 1000 hp being said in here when nobody is even running around with 500whp much less something to equate to even remotely close to 1000?

2. Why are people talking about gearing with worries of having to shift to 5th when nobody is even remotely close to 130 must less 140+? I know of one car besides that even comes close to 140 and that is the under 3000lb race car of Aaron (well then Mike hood has done like 135 but isn't in this convo) so who cares about a ratio to allow such a speed.

[Sales@RAI]

I have two questions.

1. Why are things like worrying about holding 1000 hp being said in here when nobody is even running around with 500whp much less something to equate to even remotely close to 1000?

2. Why are people talking about gearing with worries of having to shift to 5th when nobody is even remotely close to 130 must less 140+? I know of one car besides that even comes close to 140 and that is the under 3000lb race car of Aaron (well then Mike hood has done like 135 but isn't in this convo) so who cares about a ratio to allow such a speed.

Who was talking about 5th? And I agree with the 500awhp thing. If we could throw in a trans that had a shorter 3rd and 4th (0A3) and was plug and play, that'd be ideal. The 01E is cool for making absolutely stupid hp but if it doesn't help anything other than strength I'd rather pick up a bunch of 01As for $100

[drjonez]

Big problem with the 0A3 is 6th gear.....TOO SHORT. Oh well...

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I forget who it was but someone was worried about shifting to 5th with some short ratio or something. And the 7500rpm being used in all these charts isn't realistic anyway since everyone turns 8000 or more who is actually going fast and would worry about maxing out a gear, and that being said you will get another 10mph out of that 500rpm also.

And going back to the 01e tranny and gearing, the 1-2 shift is a problem also which may be overlooked since it drops the Rpms down to much even if you rev to 8000, and this will put people out of full boost with big turbos. Then the 2-3 shift isn't much better.

[Sales@RAI]

I forget who it was but someone was worried about shifting to 5th with some short ratio or something. And the 7500rpm being used in all these charts isn't realistic anyway since everyone turns 8000 or more who is actually going fast and would worry about maxing out a gear, and that being said you will get another 10mph out of that 500rpm also.

And going back to the 01e tranny and gearing, the 1-2 shift is a problem also which may be overlooked since it drops the Rpms down to much even if you rev to 8000, and this will put people out of full boost with big turbos. Then the 2-3 shift isn't much better.

David, you have a job. Buy an 0A3 and be the tester.

[iloveturbo]

David, you have a job. Buy an 0A3 and be the tester.

All these talk about getting 03A got me thinking. Why not just strengthen 01A? If the goal is find a transmission which would be able to withstand 500+awhp. Won't a stronger gear (possibly straight cut type and a stronger main shaft) suit the purpose better? I think 0A3 are still very expansive (and rare to find) compare to millions of 01A out there, no? Why spend the money and still have to suffer 3300+ rpm drop in the first gear shift simliar to 01E is having? I still think people are losing faith in 01A without warrant. I know there are no solutions offered on the market at the moment. But what if there is an solution for the 01A that we may have overlooked?

Just my 2cents

-Howard

[drjonez]

As stated in the other active transmission thread, the 01A lacks the third bearing to support the main shaft, meaning you'll never be able to make up for it with gears or anything else.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Crotreated hardened parts would have to help and if the tranny can do a descent job on the stock parts than it would have to be better. The only thing is nobody is going to spend thousands of dollars on one of these "solutions", we will continue to buy $200 trannies whenever they happen to finally break. I know I sure as hell am not going to shell out something like $5,000 for this tranny mentioned in the thread. I can not justify that cost in the slightest bit. I am not sure I would spend over $1500

[drjonez]

You're still not going to stop the shaft from deflecting, leading to stripped teeth.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Crotreated hardened parts would have to help and if the tranny can do a descent job on the stock parts than it would have to be better. The only thing is nobody is going to spend thousands of dollars on one of these "solutions", we will continue to buy $200 trannies whenever they happen to finally break. I know I sure as hell am not going to shell out something like $5,000 for this tranny mentioned in the thread. I can not justify that cost in the slightest bit. I am not sure I would spend over $1500

This is one of those topics where you have to be realistic about your budget and your goals. With a budget of $1500.00 you are pretty much limiting your transmission choices to junkyard solutions, of which replacing 01A's every other weekend is a solution if you have the time and the money to keep swapping out gearboxes, however even at $200.00 a pop and several hours of your time that all adds up quickly.

However if you spend the money wisely you will get a gearbox that is perfectly geared for your engine and your type of racing, and will continue working for years and years.
I've always wondered why people will spend tens of thousands of dollars on their engines only to have all that power go through an poorly geared and inadequate gearbox, then bitch about having transmission problems.

In reality 5K for the perfect gearbox is absolutely cheap, if you look at the Japanese crowd those guys are shelling out $10K+ for their gearboxes.


You're still not going to stop the shaft from deflecting, leading to stripped teeth.

With any stronger 01A gear set the shafts need to be supported better.

[SleeperAvant]

This is one of those topics where you have to be realistic about your budget and your goals. With a budget of $1500.00 you are pretty much limiting your transmission choices to junkyard solutions, of which replacing 01A's every other weekend is a solution if you have the time and the money to keep swapping out gearboxes, however even at $200.00 a pop and several hours of your time that all adds up quickly.

However if you spend the money wisely you will get a gearbox that is perfectly geared for your engine and your type of racing, and will continue working for years and years.
I've always wondered why people will spend tens of thousands of dollars on their engines only to have all that power go through an poorly geared and inadequate gearbox, then bitch about having transmission problems.

If you think $5k is way to much for a box, then don't own a Subaru, those guys are shelling out $10K+ for their gearboxes.

So what solution do you have available for 01A gearboxes?

[Scotty@Advanced]

So what solution do you have available for 01A gearboxes?

I've looked into strengthening the 01A, however there is no market at what it would cost to design and manufacture the parts required.

[speeding-g60]

Janis (fasterthenRS2) is also hittin 10's and high 130's. Mike Rombotis also as well. Mike Hood has deep into 10's and right over 135, and he is the only trooper i know of dragging an 01A gearbox. it works for him so far....

there are a few but they may not know of these proceedings.

USP Motorsports / Chris Green are 9's already with their VR6T S4. using IIRC 01E trans.

i have a few 01A's, and a couple 01E 5 speeds and couple 01E six speeds. one of the 5 speed bellhousing is at Quicktime getting some SFI RWD trans options for VAG motors.

i am down for one eventually, when i out-drive my current one. but all of the fastest S2 cars in the world are still on 01E stock gearing going 250+ KPH and low low 9's..... they can do it, why cant we?

my car isnt much under 3k, 2850 with my fat ass in it.

i was taking 1st gear out to 9200 rpm or so to help me with the 1-2 shift, then running 8800 or so for the rest. but i have a solid lifter setup that can handle revs. well, it didnt like 11.5k rpm but then again, who would? after that misshift missed 3rd hit 1st i still made three more 10 sec passes before i pushed 3rd gear to 9200 rpm across the line in 10.7x @ 137. it blew up right at the finish LOL. shit happened.

Aaron

[speeding-g60]

forgot to add, Scott built Janis trans i believe. and Janis is rough on parts....

[Sales@RAI]

Aaron we're talking about 1.8Ts here that spool rather late. It's not as big of a deal for bigger motors. We know people have gone fast on just about every trans.

[speeding-g60]

what is late spool to you guys? i get 45psi by 5700 rpm if i want it. >30 psi by 5k. is that considered late? cuz i launch with 15-16 psi on the 2-step.

those Audi guys are like 2.2/2.3L I-5's.... not very many go out to 2.5/2.6L.....

in that case, though, Janis is I-5 and Mike R is v6 single GT35r (now going bigger IIRC) both Coupe Quattros. zerb is looking to do the same stuff with his car when its up and going. 1.8T 90 B3 but using 01E.

[speeding-g60]

and i just saw this.... someone mention 01X??

$499 BRAND NEW...... 50 available.

http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/?pg=4


Current Model/Year
2005-08 Audi A4, A4/S4 quattro
2009-10 Audi A6/Avant, A6/S6/Avant quattro

[Scotty@Advanced]

and i just saw this.... someone mention 01X??

$499 BRAND NEW...... 50 available.

http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/?pg=4

Not new, those are reman they are FWD not quattro and I have 8 of them. But the 01X appear to be a stronger design than the 01A. they have similar gear widths but have a middle support bearing.

[rarak69]

and i just saw this.... someone mention 01X??

$499 BRAND NEW...... 50 available.

http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/?pg=4


Thought those were FWD trannies........

[Scotty@Advanced]

Thought those were FWD trannies........

They are FWD.

[dougyfresh]

Aaron we're talking about 1.8Ts here that spool rather late. It's not as big of a deal for bigger motors. We know people have gone fast on just about every trans.

REALLY?

You KNOW Aaron is running a 1.8 (now 2.0). (He also addressed your post immediately after you posted).

Your argument makes no sense. Sit back and think about it for a second.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

This is one of those topics where you have to be realistic about your budget and your goals. With a budget of $1500.00 you are pretty much limiting your transmission choices to junkyard solutions, of which replacing 01A's every other weekend is a solution if you have the time and the money to keep swapping out gearboxes, however even at $200.00 a pop and several hours of your time that all adds up quickly.

However if you spend the money wisely you will get a gearbox that is perfectly geared for your engine and your type of racing, and will continue working for years and years.
I've always wondered why people will spend tens of thousands of dollars on their engines only to have all that power go through an poorly geared and inadequate gearbox, then bitch about having transmission problems.

In reality 5K for the perfect gearbox is absolutely cheap, if you look at the Japanese crowd those guys are shelling out $10K+ for their gearboxes.



With any stronger 01A gear set the shafts need to be supported better.

I think this is where there may be a little confusion, the majority of us are driving our daily driver not a race car. We put a bigger turbo on or whatever to make the car faster to have fun with it on our way to work or what have you, not to make it a drag racer, some of us also just happen to like to drag race from time to time (in my case it would be maybe 2 times a year). We are talking the majority of the cars running from 360-460whp, not 600 or 700whp. We are not in need of something crazy or everkill, only slightly better than a stock 1.8t transmission.

As for transmissions, if you aren't pounding gears and launching they do a pretty descent job holding up. Even if I said they were $400 transmissions instead of $200and say I went through 3 a year, that is only $1200 so the way I look at it, look how many years it would take me to spend that $5000 and this is if I was breaking 3 a year and spending $400 on them, where like Clint said, he gets them for just over $100 a piece, and that is also a "pocket change" hit to the wallet, not a "let me max my credit card out real quick" hit if you understand where I am coming from.


my car isnt much under 3k, 2850 with my fat ass in it.

i was taking 1st gear out to 9200 rpm or so to help me with the 1-2 shift, then running 8800 or so for the rest. but i have a solid lifter setup that can handle revs. well, it didnt like 11.5k rpm but then again, who would? after that misshift missed 3rd hit 1st i still made three more 10 sec passes before i pushed 3rd gear to 9200 rpm across the line in 10.7x @ 137. it blew up right at the finish LOL. shit happened.

Aaron

That would be roughly 800lbs lighter than mine with me in and I don't need to tell you that is a shitload. And we are not running 9200rpm in our daily drivers either but more like under 8000.

[iloveturbo]

I think this is where there may be a little confusion, the majority of us are driving our daily driver not a race car. We put a bigger turbo on or whatever to make the car faster to have fun with it on our way to work or what have you, not to make it a drag racer, some of us also just happen to like to drag race from time to time (in my case it would be maybe 2 times a year). We are talking the majority of the cars running from 360-460whp, not 600 or 700whp. We are not in need of something crazy or everkill, only slightly better than a stock 1.8t transmission.

As for transmissions, if you aren't pounding gears and launching they do a pretty descent job holding up. Even if I said they were $400 transmissions instead of $200and say I went through 3 a year, that is only $1200 so the way I look at it, look how many years it would take me to spend that $5000 and this is if I was breaking 3 a year and spending $400 on them, where like Clint said, he gets them for just over $100 a piece, and that is also a "pocket change" hit to the wallet, not a "let me max my credit card out real quick" hit if you understand where I am coming from.


Point taken. 01A strengthen gear sets has no demand. People perfer to buy used units instead.

Lets continue with 01E discussion then.

-Howard

[B6Lovin]

I'm a bit late to this.... But there are only so many scenarios here... And it follows the sane formula as everything else with these cars (and any car really)

We can get:
the ratios we want/stronger gears that will get us down the track faster an in one piece
A streetable, reliable tranny that will get good hwy mpg
A cheap transmission (relatively)



Now pick two.



The way I see it all this discussion to try and fulfill all 3 base requirements is basically wasted breath.

[speeding-g60]

I'm a bit late to this.... But there are only so many scenarios here... And it follows the sane formula as everything else with these cars (and any car really)

We can get:
the ratios we want/stronger gears that will get us down the track faster an in one piece
A streetable, reliable tranny that will get good hwy mpg
A cheap transmission (relatively) by doing as much ourselves as possible

Now pick two.

i picked two.

Howard, you play with the numbers at all? whats your thought?

i am down to be a guinea pig, i aint scared. shit, i have blown $18k on motors this year alone.... 2 on the dyno and 1 on the track. its what you get when you push.

and this is what i am messing with for shifting.... just my own lil mods is all.

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/th_1211101042.jpg (http://s898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/?action=view&current=1211101042.mp4)

[B6Lovin]

Ps. What are people doing as far as high rpm shifting?

This I really want to hear from the people who rev out 9k+ .... how the FUCK do you do it? I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of and 80% of the time or more my car (no matter what transmission - I'm on 01a #4) will not shift @ or above 7.4k I get locked out and by the time I cram it in I'm way out of boost.

Is this part of that whole deflection thing? Or is it a synchro/the design of the collars in our transmissions?

[B6Lovin]

Ok, I'm down on those decisions - but then my question is how hard would driving a tranny like that be on the street? What kind of sacrifices does that entail?

If it's just city mpg, some noise, and slightly rougher shifting @ low rpm I don't personally think that's bad at all. I DO however think a base requirement should be retention of some cruising gas milage.

I also don't think a rough shift/huge rpm drop for a tall 5th or 6th gear would be that bad either. That gives you 4 or 5 to race with and one to cruise. Who cares if the car bogs down going into that gear.

[speeding-g60]

ya wanna see some high RPM shifting?

here ya go. here are a couple. and this is around 8800 on the shift, give or take a couple. and this is a Scott Dewitt 01E Euro TDI gearbox.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLc2DOs8Tzo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K3zj6Fm1hg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyWgh9DWwgU

[pape]

speeding-g60 what tranny oil do u use?

[speeding-g60]

i cant remember which i put where. i "think" i used the Lucas in the rear diff, but not certain what i put in the trans but i am leaning towards the Lucas as well.

if i go out and count empty bottles i could get a better idea on that answer.

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/1216102156.jpg

[B6Lovin]

Lucas ftw. I put royal purple in my tranny one time and was skeptical (I've heard their regula oil blows... But some good friends swore up and down that it was awesome) so I checked it at my next regular oil change.... When COLD it was like water compared to when it went in, and I don't think it would be very shock-absorbent or lubricating like that.

Drained it, went back to Lucas, never looked back

/semi-offtopic thread diversion.
(since once we figure out transmissions we'll need to know what to put in them.)

[speeding-g60]

Lucas ftw. I put royal purple in my tranny one time and was skeptical (I've heard their regula oil blows... But some good friends swore up and down that it was awesome) so I checked it at my next regular oil change.... When COLD it was like water compared to when it went in, and I don't think it would be very shock-absorbent or lubricating like that.

Drained it, went back to Lucas, never looked back

/semi-offtopic thread diversion.
(since once we figure out transmissions we'll need to know what to put in them.)

its ALL relevant at this point.

[B6Lovin]

Lol I hear ya.

I find it funny that the banner ad at the bottom right now is a tremec ad hahahahaha
And my lutino Oscar just jumped out of his tank and ate a fly as it flew by. Badass. (I need a hood.....

[iloveturbo]

Howard, you play with the numbers at all? whats your thought?i am down to be a guinea pig, i aint scared.

Arron, the number looked pretty damn good! I compare it to V.S motor's offering from Norway as well.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQsaMAETHeI/AAAAAAAABAE/a1ceWbk4ih4/s800/arron-setting.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_sxeajY5Ji0U/TQsayZlEnxI/AAAAAAAABAI/qxPxczjkBvI/s800/arron-Quaife-calculator.jpg

As for being a guinea pig, I wouldn't be worried. We will assist you to break your current record! It's all about pushing the Audi platform further, quarter mile at a time [:D]

-Howard

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Daniel I shift just fine up around 8000.

[dougyfresh]

i cant remember which i put where. i "think" i used the Lucas in the rear diff, but not certain what i put in the trans but i am leaning towards the Lucas as well.

if i go out and count empty bottles i could get a better idea on that answer.

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/drag-coupe4/Mobile%20Uploads/1216102156.jpg

Interesting. I have that exact combo in my trans right now (royal purple with a quart of lucas) and it is noisy and sounds like things are sticking when I get over 7000rpm. I want to drain it and go back to Redline MT90 with some shockproof.

[speeding-g60]

As for being a guinea pig, I wouldn't be worried. We will assist you to break your current record! It's all about pushing the Audi platform further, quarter mile at a time [:D]

-Howard

oh, its not a current "record", Howard. that was just the first three full passes of the car, after which i got kicked out of the track for no firesuit, cage not cert'd, no physical, no 9 sec license, etc. i will go faster.....

[Sales@RAI]

REALLY?

You KNOW Aaron is running a 1.8 (now 2.0). (He also addressed your post immediately after you posted).

Your argument makes no sense. Sit back and think about it for a second.

Right and he paid a bunch to get a trans that suited his needs... He is also revving to damn near 9k

[speeding-g60]

not really. my trans is just off the shelf AA Euro TDI that was given to me for free in support of my cause (not by Scott, i may add). i killed a 01E 5 speed (narrow first) in a couple part throttle shakedown passes. i am just using it to run the car, it was not a planned purchase. and it works good so far.

i am going to build a dogbox, its just a matter of when. and Scott will be putting this Torsen diff in the front for the front axles, as well.

so in a sense, i WILL be paying a bunch for that trans to suit my needs.

and i also rev over 9k. we had yet to turn it up on that last motor. i will be doing so this time.

[Sales@RAI]

not really. my trans is just off the shelf AA Euro TDI that was given to me for free in support of my cause (not by Scott, i may add). i killed a 01E 5 speed (narrow first) in a couple part throttle shakedown passes. i am just using it to run the car, it was not a planned purchase. and it works good so far.

i am going to build a dogbox, its just a matter of when. and Scott will be putting this Torsen diff in the front for the front axles, as well.

so in a sense, i WILL be paying a bunch for that trans to suit my needs.

and i also rev over 9k. we had yet to turn it up on that last motor. i will be doing so this time.

Right, which is why I said your car is lightyears ahead of what we're talking about. I would love to rev to 9k *sigh*, you fall back into boost on every shift right?

[speeding-g60]

Right, which is why I said your car is lightyears ahead of what we're talking about. I would love to rev to 9k *sigh*, you fall back into boost on every shift right?


yes for the most part. i was really only pushing first gear to 9200 to try and keep the 1-2 shift up on the power.... seemed to work. 8900 on 2nd. 8800 or so on 3rd. 6700 across the line.

i do not think i will push the 2.0L over 9k, but i will damned sure be turning it up power wise. we were 17deg on E85 and only @ 33 psi. ultra safe (for me anyhow) tuning for that setup so i could get it down the track a few times.

another thing i will finally do is no0lift-shifting, too. my subie bud says its a night and day holy SHIT difference....

[Hansi]

Hope you guys don't mind me bumping this thread, but I'm about to piece together a custom 01E, I'm leaning toward the following setup:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21991994/gearing.png

Comments? I'm not sure about 2,9 first, have been thinking about 2,9-3,1..
I will be using the car mainly for street, but I want a reliable transmission and I want to be able to keep it in optimal powerband.

[dougyfresh]

why spend all that money on custom gearing and optimize it for a stock redline?

[Hansi]

Reliability, durability.

[Haenszel20v]

piecing together? or getting gears made?


Can someone type out the ratios? I can't see the pic at work.

[Hansi]

Getting 1-2 made. 3-4-5-6 is from what I understood from Scott stock options.

1: 2,9, rev drop 2534, 48mph@7500
2: 1,92, rev drop 1914, 72mph@7500
3: 1,43, rev drop 1888, 97 mph@7500
4: 1,07, rev drop 1542, 129 mph@7500
5: 0,85, rev drop 1500, 163 mph@7500
6: 0,68, 203 mph@7500

4,11

When I looked at the B6 A4 3.0 on the first page I thought that looked pretty good except for 1.. I don't really need 203 mph high speed.

[Hansi]

No thoughts on this gearing other than the stock redline comment?

[speeding-g60]

those gears look close to what i am having made rightnow.

mine is a drag car. and i went with what suits my setup best.

i rev to 9k rpm no problem. so i chose gears that will do ~2600-2800 rpm drop on the shifts. i will be >600 AWHP on each shift for the complete run.

i had my order put in about 4 weeks ago, so we shall see what happens when it comes in.

[lorge1989]

Bump from the dead.

Would it be possible to swap the second gear from an allroad transmission into an S4/B6 3.0 one? Maybe 2nd and 3rd? It seems like using an OEM part would be a lot better than getting custom gears cut.

Here are the ratios listed for the allroad:

1st 3.75
2nd 2.14
3rd 1.43
4th 1.07
5th .87
6th .73
Final drive 4.375

[lorge1989]

Bump from the dead.

Would it be possible to swap the second gear from an allroad transmission into an S4/B6 3.0 one? Maybe 2nd and 3rd? It seems like using an OEM part would be a lot better than getting custom gears cut.

Here are the ratios listed for the allroad:

1st 3.75
2nd 2.14
3rd 1.43
4th 1.07
5th .87
6th .73
Final drive 4.375

Yeah, I'm an idiot.

[speeding-g60]

the 1-2 gears are part of the input shaft, so no you cannot just change second gear

oh yeah, and i have run mine out a few times, best of 1.400 60', 0-60 in 2.3 sec, and 9.34 @ 153.7x!!!!!

[lorge1989]

the 1-2 gears are part of the input shaft, so no you cannot just change second gear

oh yeah, and i have run mine out a few times, best of 1.400 60', 0-60 in 2.3 sec, and 9.34 @ 153.7x!!!!!

Yeah yeah yeah. We know, you're the man. FFFFFUUUUUUUUU [:)]

[BARRY]

zombie bump...this is such a great thread...exactly the info i was looking for last night.

[speeding-g60]

and lets see next season how things go with this SEQUENTIAL SHIFTER!!!!!!



https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/171991_431974730197091_1388879368_o.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/171991_431974733530424_1799802969_o.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJK8S3yJW8

[Bische]

That is BAD ASS, definatly want that on my next car [:)]

Stock 1-2 shift collar? [;)]

[SleeperAvant]

Holy shit....who made that?

[Turbavanttro]

...i love the comment at the end of the video "i think i have my new toy"....

That is an awesome setup! Should get you even closer to a sub 9 second run.

[Haenszel20v]

That is BAD ASS, definatly want that on my next car [:)]

Stock 1-2 shift collar? [;)]

haha, Nah, this pricy piece is going behind his $5-6k dogbox.

Its prob an SQS item.

[AudiA4_20T]

haha, Nah, this pricy piece is going behind his $5-6k dogbox.

Its prob an SQS item.

Getting that 0A3 or what?

[Haenszel20v]

Getting that 0A3 or what?

hell naw. Doing a PAR 1-2, and maybe a b6 3.0 3rd/4th.

[speeding-g60]

haha, Nah, this pricy piece is going behind his $5-6k dogbox.

Its prob an SQS item.

i wish the dogbox was just $6k. after the gearbox itself, the REM Isotropic finishing, the Wavetrac front diff, the gearset, overhaul parts/bearings, and then this shifter, lets talk closer to $12k.

[Dan[FN]6262]

this is too legit..... I almost died from an overload of awesome.

[Bische]

Respect.

Can wait to hear that thing go through the gears

[SleeperAvant]

I think this gearbox with the proper ratios would be badass for a time attack a4.

[AudiA4_20T]

I didn't know you could just pull syncros out of the trans. Always wished I had done that since I pretty much blew a trans every time I went to the track anyway

[Dan[FN]6262]

I've been saying that I was going to pull the syncros out of my trans for months now. Still haven't bothered. LOL.

[Haenszel20v]

I don't think you can. I know you can jersey it and grind off every 2 out of 3 teeth. It still grinds, but it goes into gear faster.

[AudiA4_20T]

I don't think you can. I know you can jersey it and grind off every 2 out of 3 teeth. It still grinds, but it goes into gear faster.

I just needed it for one run. For those 11.9 seconds or less, I'm free

[Dan[FN]6262]

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/fotos/1/0/1/2/4//10547Toretto.jpg

[Bische]

Talking shift times, I hate that the revs come down so slow, feel like you have to sit waiting for ages if you want the revs to match when slamming in next gear. That must be killing the sync rings for sure.

I going to find and try to tune it out so the throttle closes shut at high RPM's...

[speeding-g60]

aaaaand, it is that much closer now :)

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/166503_467024376692126_869273464_n.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol1WP8lYPZY

[Johnny1.8T]

Wow, I am incredibly jealous of that sequential. Nice!

[Haenszel20v]

Ordered these a few months ago from PAR. They're almost done. Can't wait to have a quality 1-2 shift, and a nice improvement on the 2-3 also.

Stock S4 box that I ran last year:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/haenszel/S4Gears.jpg





PAR 1-2 dog gears, and RS4 3-4-5 that I'll have this year:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/haenszel/GearRatios-1.jpg


This should be night and day. 6th will be factory S4 for the MPG''zzzzzz'z'z'zzz.

[speeding-g60]

getting rid of that shitbag 1-2 rpm drop is the best....

[Haenszel20v]

getting rid of that shitbag 1-2 rpm drop is the best....

Sure doesn't help that the collar was fucked too!

You need a full dog set for SEQ box, right? Yeesh.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Sure doesn't help that the collar was fucked too!

You need a full dog set for SEQ box, right? Yeesh.

It depends on the seq shift box. If the box shifts fast enough to blow the synchros then you need to slow it down or go full dog engagement. Many of the electrical assist boxes have the ability to change the shift speed.

[speeding-g60]

from SQS site: (they are not the producers, only a reseller of someone elses product from my information)

i got mine from the manufacturer of the unit.....


SQS-G is mounted directly at gearbox and is operated by 1 bowden - equiped by electromagnet assistant.

Is designed for synchro or dog Gearbox 01E (6speed manual) used in most Audi 1990-today and Passat B5.

SQS unit must be mounted directly on gearbox - it requires modify tunnel of car-body ! - optimal for Racing cars !

[Johnny1.8T]

Ordered these a few months ago from PAR. They're almost done. Can't wait to have a quality 1-2 shift, and a nice improvement on the 2-3 also.

Stock S4 box that I ran last year:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/haenszel/S4Gears.jpg





PAR 1-2 dog gears, and RS4 3-4-5 that I'll have this year:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/haenszel/GearRatios-1.jpg


This should be night and day. 6th will be factory S4 for the MPG''zzzzzz'z'z'zzz.

I'm sure that cost you a pretty penny, huh? I would love toss that setup in my car.

[Haenszel20v]

I'm sure that cost you a pretty penny, huh? I would love toss that setup in my car.

It was more than I would have cared to spend, but considering I needed a new 1-2 collar anyways it wasn't too bad to upgrade to a real setup (and doesn't have a 1-2 syncro collar). The B6 3.0 / RS4 gears were free to me, so that knocked a big chunk right off the top.

[lorge1989]

It was more than I would have cared to spend, but considering I needed a new 1-2 collar anyways it wasn't too bad to upgrade to a real setup (and doesn't have a 1-2 syncro collar). The B6 3.0 / RS4 gears were free to me, so that knocked a big chunk right off the top.

Is it running yet?

[speeding-g60]

yep. ran for a little bit and killed the motor.

he is building a new motor now.

[Crispy222]

Bumping this thread while I decided what to do. I'm building a Passat 4-mo with an AEB 2L, Comp 5558 BB and an 01E. Picked a sub-100k mi 01E from an '02 Allroad and I have a B5 S4 01E that has some bad bearings/races (pretty much select parts only). So with a the power band around 4500-7500rpm range, I'm looking to run the Allroad final ratio of 4.375 and gears 1-4 with the S4 5-6 to get back to some decent cruising rpm range.

Final: 4.375
1st 3.75
2nd 2.06
3rd 1.42
4th 1.07
5th .82
6th .68

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/Crispy222/Allroad-S401Eratio_zps8d0df3a3.jpg

Couldn't find the same gear ratio calculators everyone else used. I used one from Weddle Industries.
http://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator

[speeding-g60]

changing the rear diff too then?

[Crispy222]

changing the rear diff too then?

Yes, C5 rear diff into Passat B5.5

[Scotty@Advanced]

Bumping this thread while I decided what to do. I'm building a Passat 4-mo with an AEB 2L, Comp 5558 BB and an 01E. Picked a sub-100k mi 01E from an '02 Allroad and I have a B5 S4 01E that has some bad bearings/races (pretty much select parts only). So with a the power band around 4500-7500rpm range, I'm looking to run the Allroad final ratio of 4.375 and gears 1-4 with the S4 5-6 to get back to some decent cruising rpm range.

Final: 4.375
1st 3.75
2nd 2.06
3rd 1.42
4th 1.07
5th .82
6th .68

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/Crispy222/Allroad-S401Eratio_zps8d0df3a3.jpg

Couldn't find the same gear ratio calculators everyone else used. I used one from Weddle Industries.
http://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator

There is not much of a difference (<7%) between the 6th gear in the Allroad and the S4. It's been my experience with the 4 cylinder cars, the benefits are negligible
.

[Crispy222]

Yeah about 200 rpm (3000 down to 2796). Its basically free and its being torn down to make sure nothing else is wrong.

[ThunderWolf78]

I'll revive this thread a bit, I have a 1.9TDI with a 6spd gearbox, is there any way to get an even lower geared 1st gear and a slightly longer second gear and also a lower geared reverse in these boxes?

[Scotty@Advanced]

changing Reverse gear is not an option at least not a feasible on.

Regarding first and second I can have those parts made, but the cost is high all things considered.