DIY Steering wheel and Stalk swap

[DavidB8]

I've redone the write up and pictures and moved everything to my website here: http://www.audienthusiasts.com/ProjectSteeringSwap.html

[ItsDubC]

Once again David, thx for taking the time to write this up and take pics during the process, especially given your climate conditions.

When you reconnect the battery, is there anything special that has to be done to get everything working the way it used to (ie entering a security code for the radio, re-VAG-COMing previous settings, etc)? TIA

[Cabal_san]

Nice as always and in sub zero temps! You are the mod god!

[rtc5250]

Nice write up!! Thanks again David!

[DavidB8]

Once again David, thx for taking the time to write this up and take pics during the process, especially given your climate conditions.

When you reconnect the battery, is there anything special that has to be done to get everything working the way it used to (ie entering a security code for the radio, re-VAG-COMing previous settings, etc)? TIA

No special codes needed.

I believe if you take out the errors I got because of the non existent options the only one I would have had to deal with was the steering angle sensor. I think that will happen if you put new stalks on because the car recognizes you swapped it.

[JetBlue]

I am always amazed by the amount of work you are doing on your car. Fantastic writeup.

[jabicho]

Great work, David... ´just thinking about the disconnecting battery issue.Here on my owner´s manual it says it ´s necessary to reset it or something like tahtt at the dealers, is it just to clear error messages???

[DavidB8]

Yeah if you don't have a vag com you could end up with some errors you can't clear. With my Vag I cleared everything no problem.

[Smeghead]

my next mod

[jabicho]

Do you know if it´s possible to adapt the original 4-spoke wheel air-bag to this 3 spoke wheel? It´s cheaper to buy just the wheel without it...

[DavidB8]

They are different unfortunately.

[ThePiombino]

The Mod Man strikes again! Great work as usual.

[pdegr]

Hello,
I'm Pino from Italy and excuse me for writing in pm and for my English.
I'd like to install MF taste in my 2008 A4B8 and I'm a little bit confused.I buy this :http://cgi.ebay.de/AUDI-A4-A5-A6-S-Line-ALU-Multifunktion-Tasten-Lenkrad-/180584831965?pt=Autoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item2a0bb1dbdd
but now I need wiring arness for airbag and maybe another cable to joint the 2 tastes?
Please can you tell me more about it and audi part number ?
Thank you very much,Pino.

[Scott_C]

Hi, thanks for this excellent writeup and tutorial. Unfortunately, I've hit a snag. The airbag connector on the 3 spoke steering wheel is different from the one on my original 4 spoke wheel.

http://www.scottcairns.com/audi/airbag_connectors.jpg
The green/yellow connector is the 4 spoke wheel and the orange/yellow connector is the 3 spoke. Note the tabs on the side; 4 spoke have them at the bottom, 3 spoke; halfway up.


I read the notes at the bottom of David's article; would it be best to buy the right connector from Audi and have that installed onto the 3 spoke steering wheel? Would it then work? I actually did shave the tabs of the 3 spoke connector down a tad so it could plug in, but there was no communication with the wheel (no lights, horn etc) and Vag Com reported the error as such.

Thanks,

Scott.

[autobahnaudi]

Looking at the back of the harness with the cover off and with the orange/green tab UP label the pins as follows.
1-2-3-4-5-6 (FISRT ROW TOP)
7-8-9-10-11-12 (SECOND ROW BOTTOM)
Completly de-pin the orange connector so you can put the green one in its place so you don't have to trim the tabs like you said you did. (Optional of course)
Here are the pin re-locations as I said to label them above. The other pins remain in the same place. Pin 3 4 5 and 6 leave in same location.
There is a purple pin lock on the side of the harness that will need to be removed so you can de pin the pins. This just push out with enough force. FYI the pins are a PITA to get out of the harness I used a sewing needle to unlock there clips. Insert sewing needle into the small aquare holes on the front to disengage the pin locks like I said its a PITA.
Pin relocation.
7 to 1 / Brown
8 to 2 / Yellow
10 to 8 / Red
Here some pics of before and after sorry they are old.
BEFORE I depinned the 3 spoke round airbag
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/aarafat6120/IMG_0103-3.jpg
AFTER I re-pinned the 4 spoke green harness onto the airbag.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/aarafat6120/IMG_0240-1.jpg
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/aarafat6120/IMG_0239-2.jpg
I don't think you can take the wire harness from your old airbag because the mounting points are different to include the grounds. I might be wrong about that though, I did the pin-reloaction and swaped the orange for the green so I didn't have trim tabs. Been working for me for the last 4 months and all is still good. Make sure you disconnec battery, before you play around with airbag!!
Now your steering wheel contols and lights should work.
Great success!

[Scott_C]

Mate, thank you SO much for this information! I think I'll just rearrange the pins on the orange connector, as per your instructions, since ive shaved it to fit already. (it still clicks in nice and solid)

Ill leave the green connector on my 4 spoke steering wheel so that I can sell it.

Cheers,

Scott.

[Scott_C]

I think i may have a slightly different wiring config? Looking at the connector with the orange tab UP I have;

ROW ONE: 1/empty, 2/empty, 3/empty, 4/green, 5/white, 6/blue, 7/orange
ROW TWO: 7/black, 8/brown, 9/dark blue, 10/red, 11/empty, 12/empty

So for example, if I moved the wire in pin 7 to 1, I would be moving the black wire..

[autobahnaudi]

Ya thats wierd. What airbag are you trying to install the round one like the audi TT / S3?
I installed my audi S3 wheel with round airbag / replacing the audi a4 squarish airbag.
See if this link can help you
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/170599-2007-Audi-TT-steering-wheel-fits

[Scott_C]

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look and see if it helps. At the moment, the 4 spoke wheel is back on the car, but I seem to remember all of the wires going into its green connector being black which is weird. My car is a 2008 Audi A4 B8 1.8T, I bought this off a guy who says he has a Audi B8 1.8T (i think 2010 or 2011, he just bought it) he was selling his 3 spoke wheel cause he bought the TT style flat bottom steering wheel.

I guess I have to work out on my car, which pin is the horn, which is the lights, etc.

[autobahnaudi]

That's what I thought it looked liked it your pics all the wires where black this is normal. The colors don't matter just there locations. My new harness for my old 4 spoke airbag has all black wires.
However I am only telling what worked for me. I wouldnt want you to blow your airbag or something crazy. :)

[Scott_C]

Thanks for that. [:)] I guess i'll need to find out the pin assignments for my specific model car.

[Kandiru]

I did Autobahnaudi's mod when i installed the R8 V10 wheel in my S4 and have horn
and backlights but nothing else and a "Parking Brake Failure" alarm.

Autobahnaudi can you help?

[imashy14u]

Just wondering, if I have a B8 A4 with manual transmission and 3 spoke steering wheel, am I able to buy a flat bottom RS6 or RS5 steering wheel with DSG paddles and fit it without any problems? I assume the only thing is that the paddles will not work, but everything else would. Am I correct in thinking this, or are the plugs totally different?

It seems all flat bottom steering wheels all have DSG paddles [:(]

[MikkelS]

What can bed added in the DIS by adding a new wheel?

[spuerer]

Looking at the back of the harness with the cover off and with the orange/green tab UP label the pins as follows.
1-2-3-4-5-6 (FISRT ROW TOP)
7-8-9-10-11-12 (SECOND ROW BOTTOM)
Completly de-pin the orange connector so you can put the green one in its place so you don't have to trim the tabs like you said you did. (Optional of course)

...

I don't think you can take the wire harness from your old airbag because the mounting points are different to include the grounds. I might be wrong about that though, I did the pin-reloaction and swaped the orange for the green so I didn't have trim tabs. Been working for me for the last 4 months and all is still good. Make sure you disconnec battery, before you play around with airbag!!
Now your steering wheel contols and lights should work.
Great success!

I hope you know what you do?!

You can't use the TT or RS6 steering wheel by changing the airbag-connector! There are two different airbag systems (adaptive in the B8 and non adaptive in TT,A6). There will be no error in the ECU, but in case of an accident the system will not work properly!!!

If there are different airbag-connectors ->there are different airbag-systems!

[spuerer]

The steering wheel from the facelift A5 (and fl A4) can be used in the "old" A4 B8! They have the same connectors and the same airbag-systems. with or without paddles.

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/22/7900/42948541/foto-3-7152499265734706403.JPG

without paddles:
8K0 419 091 CE INU
8K0 419 091 CN IXB (S-Line
8K0 419 091 CJ IWQ (S5)

with paddles:
8K0 419 091 CF INU
8K0 419 091 CP IXB (S-Line)
8K0 419 091 CK IWQ (S5)

Airbag:
8F0 880 201 H 6PS

Airbag-cable:
8U0 971 589 J (included in 8F0 880 201 H)

[jrod80]

The steering wheel from the facelift A5 (and fl A4) can be used in the "old" A4 B8! They have the same connectors and the same airbag-systems. with or without paddles.

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/22/7900/42948541/foto-3-7152499265734706403.JPG

without paddles:
8K0 419 091 CE INU
8K0 419 091 CN IXB (S-Line
8K0 419 091 CJ IWQ (S5)

with paddles:
8K0 419 091 CF INU
8K0 419 091 CP IXB (S-Line)
8K0 419 091 CK IWQ (S5)

Airbag:
8F0 880 201 H 6PS

Airbag-cable:
8U0 971 589 J (included in 8F0 880 201 H)

Do any of the facelift wheels not have the "i/NAV" button? If not, what is this button used for on those new facelift vehicles without NAV? I would love a new facelift wheel to replace my non-sport '12 Avant 4 spoke wheel but don't really want a "dead" button that doesn't do anything since I don't have NAV.

[DavidB8]

I don't think the iNav button does anything on cars with Nav. That's a new button for these wheels and not compatible with current system. The MFC buttons have their own bus system in the wheel so It's not like you can wire them directly for something else. I don't think a dead button is such a big deal though

[jrod80]

Agreed, not a huge deal and I can most likely live with it. I'm just curious what that iNAV button does on the new facelift vehicles without NAV if there isn't two different facelift wheels, one without the button and one with.

[jrod80]

Also, if you do an eBay search for S-Line steering wheel quite a few of the new style wheels show up (without airbags). The one I'm currently looking at has a different button configuration than the wheel posted by spuerer. The one I'm currently looking at has a < > button on the right side and the iNAV button and Speak button are in the same button on the right side with a * button below. Will these wheels work with our platform? Is the < > a skip button? If so, it would be great if it worked with our platform to skip tracks. What is the * button for?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multifunction-MF-steering-wheel-Audi-Sline-Audi-S-LINE-padles-performed-/330650824452?hash=item4cfc532f04&item=330650824452&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_922

And this wheel has the same configuration as the wheel spuerer posted...a bit confusing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multifunction-steering-wheel-Audi-Sline-S5-Audi-S-LINE-S-5-white-sewing-/330665743138?hash=item4cfd36d322&item=330665743138&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_922

[DavidB8]

Don't know but I looked at the Audi Configurator on UK website and the car has that button even without NAV.

[jrod80]

Great thanks. I would really like the < > capability of the first wheel if it is indeed skip track. I posted a new thread so maybe Alex or someone can provide insight. Thanks David!

[mishonio]

Thanks DavidB8 for the detailed DIY!

I will be replacing just the steering wheel and not the stalks. A B8 A4 wheel for a B8 S4 one. Will re-programming be necessary?

Thanks,
Michael

[mishonio]

Also dimensions-wise and feel-wise how does the B8 S4 3 spoke steering wheel compare to the B8 A4 4 spoke one?

The S4 one looks thicker, so grip must be better. Is it made of better materials to even further improve the grip? Also how much smaller is it than the A4 one in diameter?

Cheers,
Michael

[dame drizzo]

Sorry for this annoying question, but if I have s5 steering wheel and want to put on my b8, would I need to change th stalk as well? Had steering wheel and airbag sitting in my house for months and would be disappointed if I didn't purchase all the parts necessary . :(

[DavidB8]

Also dimensions-wise and feel-wise how does the B8 S4 3 spoke steering wheel compare to the B8 A4 4 spoke one?

The S4 one looks thicker, so grip must be better. Is it made of better materials to even further improve the grip? Also how much smaller is it than the A4 one in diameter?

Cheers,
Michael

Thanks DavidB8 for the detailed DIY!

I will be replacing just the steering wheel and not the stalks. A B8 A4 wheel for a B8 S4 one. Will re-programming be necessary?

Thanks,
Michael

No reprogramming was needed when I swapped mine. As long as you don't so something silly like alter the clock ring on the stalks when you pull the wheel off you should be plug and play. The S4 wheel is slightly larger and does have a nicer feel to it.


Sorry for this annoying question, but if I have s5 steering wheel and want to put on my b8, would I need to change th stalk as well? Had steering wheel and airbag sitting in my house for months and would be disappointed if I didn't purchase all the parts necessary . :(

That stalks are the same. They only change for different options not based on the wheel you have.

[mishonio]

Thanks DavidB8.

If reprogramming is indeed needed, will it be trivial? Just force a re-check of installed components. On the dimensions aspect, in the photos the S4 wheel looks thicker but with smaller diameter. Are you saying it has larger diameter?

Cheers,
Michael

[r8ders]

Can anyone tell me if I can use the airbag off my 2011 B8 A4 w/ sport package 3-spoke steering wheel on a S5 steering wheel?

Thank you

[D-Love]

Excellent Write up. Question My car did not come with The Paddle Shifter Option if i were to Purchase the R8 wheel w/ Paddles is there a way to make it work? Thanks!

[Shamingo]

Excellent Write up. Question My car did not come with The Paddle Shifter Option if i were to Purchase the R8 wheel w/ Paddles is there a way to make it work? Thanks!

I second this. I'm very new to the scene, but I'd love to get some paddle shifters going. Any advice on fitment?

[haroulli]

You need the steering wheel with the paddles and then activate them with VCDS. You will want to search this...it's been covered!

[dame drizzo]

So I finally got my s5 wheel installed on my b8. At first the car didn't read the steering wheel but after taking it back apart the wiring was all fucked up. Big thanks to SIMMS@ RAI MOTORSPORT for correcting the issue and enabling my paddle shifters!!

[huskul]

Hi

is this same cable?

http://www.fildirekt.se/1330226223.jpg


http://www.fildirekt.se/1330221912.jpg

[TexasEric]

Hi

is this same cable?

Are you asking if the two wires circled in red are connected? Are you asking if the two wires are identical? Please provide more detail.

[huskul]

Are you asking if the two wires circled in red are connected? Are you asking if the two wires are identical? Please provide more detail.

it is two different car and picture
I wonder if this is the identical cable
one has a green that is not the other has
I will switch to multifunction steering wheel
wonder if i should replace the cable also
or if it is enough just to change 8K0953568E 6-pin to 8K0953568G 12-pin "Steering Angle Sensor Slip Ring"

[4SHRNGS]

I need to resolve this same plug mis-match situation. If there's an alternative, I'd rather not salvage the green plug on the 4 spoke airbag to remove the orange plug from the 3 spoke airbag and repin the 4 plug on the 3 bag to make it work because eventually when I sell the car, I may want to keep the better 3 spoke steering wheel and put back the original 4 spoke and 4 spoke airbag. Do you know if it's possible to either get a new receiver part on the steering column that matches the 3 spoke wheel or get a second green harness plug so I can keep the 4 spoke airbag "as is" for the option to put it back? Appreciate the help so I can make this a success DIY upgrade...

http://www.robgrand.com/swcluster
http://www.robgrand.com/osw
http://www.robgrand.com/newsw
http://www.robgrand.com/oldpp
http://www.robgrand.com/newpo

[4SHRNGS]

Having the same problem. Appreciate all help!!

> 2008 Audi A4 3.2 FWD
> 4 Spoke Steering Wheel (Purple Airbag Plug)
> 3 Spoke Audi A3 Steering Wheel and 3 Spoke Airbag (Orange Airbag Plug)

I called my local Audi Parts Tech and he said he grabbed the clock spring for the 4 spoke wheel and clock spring for the 3 spoke wheel and they are not compatible. So it seems the only option left is to use a "Purple Plug Re-Pinned in place of the Orange 3 Spoke Airbag Plug".

Does anyone know the part number for the "Purple Plug" (I didn't think to find it and write it down before putting the original wheel back on) Otherwise I need to take it apart again.

And can anyone provide help with how to "Re-Pin a Purple Plug instead of a Green Plug"?

http://www.robgrand.com/osw
http://www.robgrand.com/newsw
http://www.robgrand.com/oldpp
http://www.robgrand.com/newpo

[TexasEric]

Does anyone know the part number for the "Purple Plug" (I didn't think to find it and write it down before putting the original wheel back on) Otherwise I need to take it apart again.

You may have to replace the whole wiring harness and not just the plug. The wiring harness has two variants: 8K0971589 and 8K0971589A. I do not see a part number for just the plug. If you look at the options sticker in your trunk, you can determine which harness you currently have. If your sticker has either the 1ML or 2PV PR-numbers , your car came with the non-A harness. If your sticker has 1XD, 1XW, 1XX, 2PD, 2ZC, 2FQ, 2PU, 2ZQ, or 2ZS it as the 'A' harness.

[mfpearson]

At the risk of asking a dumb question in an old thread...

I bought an 8k0 steering wheel to put on my Q5. I was told it would work just fine with my current airbag. When I began the swap process, I noticed the steering wheel that was on my car was an 8r0, but everything looked exactly the same, so I proceeded with the swap. I got everything taken apart, and then got it all put back together with the new wheel, except I couldn't seem to get the t30 screws to line up properly... But the airbag fit perfectly, and I got the horn working. Anyway, when I start the engine, I get an "air bag" light and a "parking break malfunction" - but the car drives perfectly fine. I took it to my local mechanic (I don't have a vag com cable) to see if he could diagnose/clear the codes, but he wasn't able to, and said I should make an appointment to bring it in for him to look at.

I'd rather not pay for the appointment and labor if I don't have to - any troubleshooting suggestions? I'd greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

[DavidB8]

Did you get the screws back in? Did you disconnect the battery while you did the swap?

It does sound like you just need to clear those errors.

[mfpearson]

Did you get the screws back in? Did you disconnect the battery while you did the swap?

It does sound like you just need to clear those errors.

Hi, thanks for the reply... I was not able to get the screws back in, but the airbag fits extremely snugly... Is there a sensor for that?

Also, I did in fact disconnect the battery. My local mechanic had the computer plugged into the car, and I asked him to just clear the errors, but he said it wasn't letting him... Is he wrong? I don't think he was specifically using a VAG COM, but rather, some more general car computer.

Again, thanks for your help on this!

Edit: is it possible that the screws that came with my new wheel are too short? Or are they all standard? The angle and alignment seems right, but I just can't get them to screw into the air bag...

[TexasEric]

What are the full part numbers for the old and new steering wheels? That may help us with the VAG-COM troubleshooting.

[mfpearson]

What are the full part numbers for the old and new steering wheels? That may help us with the VAG-COM troubleshooting.

New: 8k0 419 091 BE UQP

Old: 8r0 419 091 SXBC

All of the controls on the wheel work perfectly, and the red backlit buttons light up like they're supposed to - both plugs attached to the air bag fit perfectly.

Just to update - I went out and bought some longer screws, but still can't seem to screw them into the airbag... The angle and location seem right, but I just can't get it for some reason. Also, I tried to disassemble/reassemble the air bag unit from the wheel, and now I can't get the horn to work again.

For what it's worth, the old wheel has a piece that the new wheel doesn't - it's a sort of plastic "bezel" that goes in between their bag unit and the space for the air bag unit on the wheel. The old wheel had tabs cut out for this "bezel" to lock into place, but the new wheel doesn't. I can provide pics of anything upon request.

Thanks so much for all of your help - I know we'll get it figured out eventually!

[bpodnar]

Hello everyone, I need information if anyone knows how to take off the airbag from this steering wheel? I need to replace my old steering wheel on A4 B8 2008 with this one.
http://res.cloudinary.com/dh3jmszak/image/upload/v1418812795/volan_ngmibf.jpg
http://res.cloudinary.com/dh3jmszak/image/upload/v1419011521/volan_iza_ycnvvk.jpg

[gtg196w]

Hello everyone, I need information if anyone knows how to take off the airbag from this steering wheel? I need to replace my old steering wheel on A4 B8 2008 with this one.
http://res.cloudinary.com/dh3jmszak/image/upload/v1418812795/volan_ngmibf.jpg
http://res.cloudinary.com/dh3jmszak/image/upload/v1419011521/volan_iza_ycnvvk.jpg

Stick a screw driver in those indentions that are the furthest to the right and left. Pull the metal clips towards the center (easier to do one side at a time). With the clip pulled in, and pull that side of the airbag out.

[StevenStarke]

So I just swapped the wheel on my 2010 s4 with an exact replacement from another 2010, everything plugged in fine. But now my steering wheel controls don't work. The lights flash on for about 2-3 seconds then off, then on for 2-3 seconds then off. Any ideas?

[NAR Mike]

This thread has some good info, but I still have a few questions. First, what flat-bottom steering wheel models will fit into my 2011 Audi S4 without modification? And two, which round airbag will be a plug and play with my pre-facelift car?

I'm looking for a flat-bottom wheel that will require no modification and is only plug and play.

Thank you

[overjagi]

Hi, has anyone know a thread about Retrofiting our B7/B8 steering wheel with a B9, TT or newer steering wheels?
thanks

[dgneo]

Hi, has anyone know a thread about Retrofiting our B7/B8 steering wheel with a B9, TT or newer steering wheels?
thanks

Take a look here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/862656-DIY-B9-Steering-Wheel-in-B8-B8-5

[Smac770]

There is no 2010 A4 cabriolet. There is no 2009 A4 coupe. And the B8 A5 sportback was never in the US. So not really sure what you are asking.

[overjagi]

Oh yes, you are completely right i have already correct my mistake. Issue is:
Can I install a complete steering wheel (including airbag) from an a5 2010 cabrio in an a5 2009 Coupé? When I was going to install the cabrio steering wheel I realized both steering wheel and airbag have different shape and dont fit. Now my question is if I got the airbag for the cabrio will fit the a5 without issues? I am posting a picture showing both
Appreciate any information if there is no issue about this, thanks

184619

[Chrisc84]

This thread has some good info, but I still have a few questions. First, what flat-bottom steering wheel models will fit into my 2011 Audi S4 without modification? And two, which round airbag will be a plug and play with my pre-facelift car?

I'm looking for a flat-bottom wheel that will require no modification and is only plug and play.

Thank youPretty much any b.5 steering wheel from my understanding. I'm also looking to install a flat bottom wheel in my 11 A4. I've already done the research.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Smac770]

So let's run with 3-spoke multifunction buttons without paddles (PR 1XW) and no designation badge (such as s-line or s).

For a 2010 A5 cabriolet (type 8F), that'll be:
airbag 8F0 880 201 D, which includes the following: airbag harness 8R0 971 589 A (should be orange tab one)
&
wheel 8R0 419 091 F, which includes the following: buttons - 4E0 951 527 AD + AE, guide ring - 8P0 419 689 A, buttons harness - 8P0 971 589 T

For a 2009 A5 coupe (type 8T), that'll be:
airbag 8K0 880 201 E, which includes the following: airbag harness 8K0 971 589 A (should be green tab one)
&
wheel 8T0 419 091 A, which includes the following: buttons - 4E0 951 527 AD + AE, guide ring - 4F0 419 689 A, buttons harness - 4F0 971 589 C

Notice the guide ring part number is different. If we look at the A5 coupe one:
http://www.vrakoviste-audi.cz/krouzek-vodici-4f0419689a-audi-a3-a4-a5-a6-q5-q7
we see that appears to be the edging that the airbag needs to match up to.

Is it possible to swap the guide ring from the 8T steering wheel to the 8R steering wheel so the 8K airbag will mount and seat? I don't know, I don't have the pieces in hand to experiment. Can guide ring removal be done non-destructively, again, I myself don't know. But that might be all you need to address to make it play.

I used 1XW part numbers for the 2010 A5 cab wheel, but yours seems to have paddles (1XX). That's a non-concern for this purpose; 1XX will have different buttons (to support the paddle plugs) and different buttons harness, but all that is already in your wheel. The focus will be the airbag guide ring and the airbag harness.

[overjagi]

So let's run with 3-spoke multifunction buttons without paddles (PR 1XW) and no designation badge (such as s-line or s).

For a 2010 A5 cabriolet (type 8F), that'll be:
airbag 8F0 880 201 D, which includes the following: airbag harness 8R0 971 589 A (should be orange tab one)
&
wheel 8R0 419 091 F, which includes the following: buttons - 4E0 951 527 AD + AE, guide ring - 8P0 419 689 A, buttons harness - 8P0 971 589 T

For a 2009 A5 coupe (type 8T), that'll be:
airbag 8K0 880 201 E, which includes the following: airbag harness 8K0 971 589 A (should be green tab one)
&
wheel 8T0 419 091 A, which includes the following: buttons - 4E0 951 527 AD + AE, guide ring - 4F0 419 689 A, buttons harness - 4F0 971 589 C

Notice the guide ring part number is different. If we look at the A5 coupe one:
http://www.vrakoviste-audi.cz/krouzek-vodici-4f0419689a-audi-a3-a4-a5-a6-q5-q7
we see that appears to be the edging that the airbag needs to match up to.

Is it possible to swap the guide ring from the 8T steering wheel to the 8R steering wheel so the 8K airbag will mount and seat? I don't know, I don't have the pieces in hand to experiment. Can guide ring removal be done non-destructively, again, I myself don't know. But that might be all you need to address to make it play.

I used 1XW part numbers for the 2010 A5 cab wheel, but yours seems to have paddles (1XX). That's a non-concern for this purpose; 1XX will have different buttons (to support the paddle plugs) and different buttons harness, but all that is already in your wheel. The focus will be the airbag guide ring and the airbag harness.

Ok thanks a lot for your time. I did a table comparing both steering wheel (both 1XX with paddles)+airbags (remembering what i dont have is the a5 cabrio airbag)

BOTH 1 XX ( w paddles) Steering wheel MF Button left MF Button right MF wiring harness guide ring
a5/s5 coupe (current) 8K0419091BC 4E0951527AH 4E0951527AJ 4F0971589B ( 9 pin) 4F0419689A
a5/s5 cabrio (replacement) 8F0419091A 4E0951527AH 4E0951527AJ 8P0971589P ( 9 pin) 8P0419689A

airbag harness
a5/s5 coupe (current) 8K0880201E 8K0971589A (yellow/green)
a5/s5 cabrio (replacement 8F0880201D 8R0971589A (yellow/green)

184634

i confirm MF buttons are the same but MF harness and guide ring are different. Also airbag and harness are different

So you suggest to swap the guide rings in order to avoid to buy the a5 cabrio airbag.. so the a5 coupe airbag fits? Will the a5 cabrio black MF plug fit without issue? I think is not just the guide ring but the complete steering wheel has different shape as in the picture
184638

I was thinking to buy the a5 cabrio airbag; but my main worry is that the airbag harness is very different than coupe's and maybe will not connect fine the clock spring?
184636

Thanks again

[Smac770]

Who knows why Audi has so many different airbags. In this instance, there's the 8K one (A4 and A5 coupe), the 8R one (A5 sportback and Q5), and the 8F one (A5 cabriolet). If we look at them, at least assuming the pics in the listings are correct:

8K - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A3-A4-A5-A6-A8-Q5-Q7-4-spokes-steering-wheel-8K0880201E-6PS/383215414323
notice the upper contour is curved, and the two airbag plugs are both centered
Revision history seems to be G -> E -> AL

8R - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A5-S5-Q5-Q7-steering-wheel-driver-airbag-8R0880201G-8R0880201AC-A3-A4-A6/264751222806
notice the upper contour is more squared, and the two airbag plugs are separated, only the green is centered
Revision history seems to be G -> E -> AC -> AS

8F - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-2011-AUDI-A5-S5-CONVERTIBLE-FRONT-STEERING-WHEEL-AIR-OEM-BAG-8F0880201D/192892275419
who the "F" knows why there's an 8F airbag, which appears to be exactly the same as the 8R airbag
Revision history seems to be D -> M

So there's clearly a difference between the 8K/8T platform airbags and the 8R/8F platform airbags, for whatever reason.


If we move to the harnesses, there is a different airbag harness between the two platforms. But as all of the vehicles use the same J527 coil spring, it's unlikely that anything is different at the coil spring plug (probably why they are both green tabbed, vs the orange tabbed harness of the second gen A3/TT). But what is actually different between the 8R0 971 589 A and the 8K0 971 589 A? Until someone who actually has both rings them out, we'll never know. One thing that seems clearly different, is the 8R one has an extra plug on it:

8R - https://www.ebay.com/itm/8R0971589A-GENUINE-AUDI-Q5-STEERING-WHEEL-AIR-BAG-AIRBAG-WIRE-WIRING-HARNESS/373079527047
8K - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A4-B8-STEERING-WHEEL-AIRBAG-WIRING-HARNESS-8K0971589A-/133200681698

what is that extra clear white plug for? Which pin on the coil spring plug does it ring to? Does it go in the extra hole in the steering wheel at the 4 o'clock position? What is that hole for? The 8 o'clock one is for the heated steering wheel plug on the coil spring in the B7/C6/D3 generations. But no B8 had a heated steering wheel; no B8 coil spring has that extra jack at the 8 o'clock.


We've already seen the MF buttons and the Tip paddles are the same, but then for whatever reason we have a different harness, 4F0 971 589 B vs 8P0 971 589 P. What's different? Until someone with both rings them out and brings some knowledge back, we'll have no idea. I doubt they are different.

Lastly, wtf with the airbag screws.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/cheese-head-screw-priced-each/4e0419204b/
for the 8K/8T platform, but also for the Q5, with it's 8R wheel and 8R airbag. While the A5 sportback, with the same 8R wheel and same 8R airbag, uses the screws that the A5 cab uses?
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/bolt/wht001497/
which are 6mm longer? I suspect you'll have to experiment to see what's actually what here.


If you can relocate your original guide ring to the new wheel, and if that allows you to seat your original airbag into the wheel, I'd use your original airbag harness also. I do not think you'd need to swap the MF button harness.
If you do end up going with the 8F airbag, I suggest using the 8R airbag harness. I expect the wiring at the coil spring plug will be the same between the two.

As for asking "will", there's no point asking me that. I don't have the stuff. I cannot validate anything. Validate as much as you can since you have pieces in hand, and for the rest, you'll have to wing it assisted with my speculations.

[overjagi]

Wow, great and deep information thanks
Problem is finding the 8R/8F airbag in USA, because almost all Q5 in USA are 4-spokes non sport and airbag is different than 3 spokes as cabrio is. Also there is not 8R sportback in USA, so 8F airbag seems the right stuff to find
Yes, the extra plug in the harness is in the picture and I am still asking me what does it?
184851

You "suggest using this 8R airbag harness. I expect the wiring at the coil spring plug will be the same between the two.”, I am still worried about what this extra plug does in the coil spring..

Also the 8R/8F steering wheel has two holes instead the one in the 8K/8T as pictured, could be to seat this extra plug..or what is this extra hole for?
184853

[Smac770]

Your first pair of pics seem to make it clear where the clear white plug on the 8R airbag harness goes; it goes to a matching plug that is a ground wire on the airbag. This would seem to make it clear that the 8K airbags and the 8R/8F airbags are not interchangeable with regard to the airbag harness. If you use an 8K airbag, you use an 8K harness. If you use an 8R/8F airbag, you use an 8R harness.

Which supports what I already suggested, use the 8R airbag harness if you use the 8R/8F airbag.

The holes in the back metal of the steering wheel are for plugs protruding from the coil spring. A B8 coil spring has only the one main plug. Other platforms that supported heated steering wheel had an additional plug at 8 o'clock. Why these 8R wheels have an additional hole at 4 o'clock, I have no idea. Nothing about the B8 coil spring options would use that hole.

Did it seem a no-go on relocating your 8K/8T guide ring to the new wheel so you could try to use your 8K airbag? In which case you would use your 8K airbag harness.

[overjagi]

Your first pair of pics seem to make it clear where the clear white plug on the 8R airbag harness goes; it goes to a matching plug that is a ground wire on the airbag. This would seem to make it clear that the 8K airbags and the 8R/8F airbags are not interchangeable with regard to the airbag harness. If you use an 8K airbag, you use an 8K harness. If you use an 8R/8F airbag, you use an 8R harness.



So, do you think there is not problem or hazard with my 8T coupe coil spring connecting the 8R/8F harness?




Did it seem a no-go on relocating your 8K/8T guide ring to the new wheel so you could try to use your 8K airbag? In which case you would use your 8K airbag harness.

Thanks, now I got the a5 cabrio SW and took the guide ring off (very easy just 5 soft tabs). And as i dont have the a5 coupe SW available I checked the pictures from website you sent me and compare and seems they are very different (4 thinner tabs).. dont feel it will fit
184855
https://iili.io/JtzeoX.png

So the way to use cabrio SW should be with the 8R/8F airbag including the harness...


Regarding airbag bolts, if I use both SW and airbag from 8R/8F.. there is any issue with these longer bolts?

[Smac770]

As I've said, both harnesses have the green tab likely because they all plug into the same coil spring part number used across the B8 vehicles (minus the Kostal vs Valeo difference, but that's irrelevant to this topic). But if you have both in hand, ring them out and confirm there's no wiring difference between the two. If there is a difference, bring that empirical data back here so it can be evaluated. I am curious if the extra plug that goes to the airbag is connected to the horn ground line, or where it rings out to. 1/2 are the horn, 3/4 are the first airbag plug, 5/6 are the second airbag plug, 7-12 go to the MF button harness.

Yeah, quite a bit different there on the guide ring. Good to know. Amazing how it's 10 years later and an absurd number of steering wheel threads and no one ever did a useful dissection of the B8 wheels.

Longer bolts; I already mentioned I don't understand Audi's catalog on that. Because the Q5 and the A5 sportback use the same 8R wheel and same 8R airbag yet the Q5 uses the A4/coupe screws and the sportback uses the screws the cabriolet uses (supposedly). Get the bolts ETKA says to use; if they seem too long, take the ones off your existing wheel.

[overjagi]

As I've said, both harnesses have the green tab likely because they all plug into the same coil spring part number used across the B8 vehicles (minus the Kostal vs Valeo difference, but that's irrelevant to this topic). But if you have both in hand, ring them out and confirm there's no wiring difference between the two. If there is a difference, bring that empirical data back here so it can be evaluated. I am curious if the extra plug that goes to the airbag is connected to the horn ground line, or where it rings out to.
Hi!! Well while I am getting the airbag, I did a very detailed graph for the 8R/8F that can help with this, shows where the extra plug is connected, this harness has colored wires instead the 8K/8T have all black wires
185016

https://iili.io/JtETvt.png


.... 1/2 are the horn, 3/4 are the first airbag plug, 5/6 are the second airbag plug, 7-12 go to the MF button harness.
I have not found a detailed B8 numbered graph like this from a B7 where 12 pin is empty. Is the same for the B8?
185017

https://iili.io/JtERun.jpg

greetings

[overjagi]

Lastly, wtf with the airbag screws.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/cheese-head-screw-priced-each/4e0419204b/
for the 8K/8T platform, but also for the Q5, with it's 8R wheel and 8R airbag. While the A5 sportback, with the same 8R wheel and same 8R airbag, uses the screws that the A5 cab uses?
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/bolt/wht001497/
which are 6mm longer? I suspect you'll have to experiment to see what's actually what here.


Hi again, well so as you know i have a5 cabrio 8F steering wheel.. now my doubt is i found a 8R Q5 sportack.. but not sure if it works if bolts are different as you stated.. ? or not an issue
thanks

[Smac770]

They are both M6 bolts, so either will thread in just fine. But one bolt is 6mm (1/4") longer than the other bolt. So which you'll need, or either might work, you'd have to see first hand.

[overjagi]

8K - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A3-A4-A5-A6-A8-Q5-Q7-4-spokes-steering-wheel-8K0880201E-6PS/383215414323
notice the upper contour is curved, and the two airbag plugs are both centered
Revision history seems to be G -> E -> AL

8R - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A5-S5-Q5-Q7-steering-wheel-driver-airbag-8R0880201G-8R0880201AC-A3-A4-A6/264751222806
notice the upper contour is more squared, and the two airbag plugs are separated, only the green is centered
Revision history seems to be G -> E -> AC -> AS

8F - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-2011-AUDI-A5-S5-CONVERTIBLE-FRONT-STEERING-WHEEL-AIR-OEM-BAG-8F0880201D/192892275419
who the "F" knows why there's an 8F airbag, which appears to be exactly the same as the 8R airbag
Revision history seems to be D -> M

.

Great info indeed, my question is I have a steering wheel (w paddles) + airbag from a Q5 B8 2011 (8R seems same as a5 sportback K8R); is possible to install this in an a5 B8 coupe 2010 (8T) without any issue or maybe something will no work? or even worse could it be dangerous?

[Smac770]

If you've got the matching airbag and harness (where we see the B8.0 A4 sedan / A4 wagon / A5 coupe airbag is not the same as the B8.0 A5 cabriolet / A5 sportback / Q5 crossover airbag) for the prospective wheel, then it's all the same at the points that matter: the mounting and the coil spring plug. So while the airbags and thus airbag harness are different, the buttons and paddles are the same as is the coil spring plug (yellow with the green tab) and pinout.

[overjagi]

If you've got the matching airbag and harness (where we see the B8.0 A4 sedan / A4 wagon / A5 coupe airbag is not the same as the B8.0 A5 cabriolet / A5 sportback / Q5 crossover airbag) for the prospective wheel, then it's all the same at the points that matter: the mounting and the coil spring plug. So while the airbags and thus airbag harness are different, the buttons and paddles are the same as is the coil spring plug (yellow with the green tab) and pinout.

Well, I want to replace all steering wheel + airbag (comes with harness) from a Q5 B8 2011 into a a5 B8 coupé 2010, certainly seems as it is all the package would fit without issues (you say coil spring are the same), am i right? what I am worried is that will not work some features like paddles, and there is any risk of airbag explodes?

[Smac770]

If you didn't have paddles and you're adding a wheel with paddles, sure, you're going to have to go turn on checkboxes in the coding for the paddles in the J527 steering electronics module. You'll need VCDS (OBD11 might work) for that.
Airbag pyrotechnics is always the same concern; make sure you pull the battery negative with the car ignition on (electronics, not engine), then do whatever with the pyrotechnics, then have the key in when you reconnect the battery negative. But many people have swapped the wheel and airbag without issue, so just don't be bad. :-)

[overjagi]

If you didn't have paddles and you're adding a wheel with paddles, sure, you're going to have to go turn on checkboxes in the coding for the paddles in the J527 steering electronics module. You'll need VCDS (OBD11 might work) for that.
Airbag pyrotechnics is always the same concern; make sure you pull the battery negative with the car ignition on (electronics, not engine), then do whatever with the pyrotechnics, then have the key in when you reconnect the battery negative. But many people have swapped the wheel and airbag without issue, so just don't be bad. :-)

Thanks, yes mine had paddles so VCDS job has done before.

Well, seems clear 8R has color wires and an extra wire than the black wires on the 8K/8T (what is this wire for ,no clue....) so this extra cable will fill the empty #12 pin that 8K/8T has... maybe this is relate to the clock spring that seems different in the Q5 2011 8R (KOSTAL PR CODES 1N7 and 1N8 for dynamic steering) than for the a4 2010 8K/8T (VALEO PR CODES 1N1 and 1N3 servotronic as the a4)
194293

Concern about pyrotechnics is more about the extra wire in the 8R airbag that could do something weird later when I drive the car, what do you think?

[Smac770]

1-2 is the horn, 3-4 if the airbag igniter N95, 5-6 is the airbag igniter N250, 7-12 is to the multifunction button harness (that 6-pin plug on the end of it that connects to the airbag harness). Is the norm. The wiring diagram I have from erwin provides no colors for the wires on the steering wheel side, and provides no elaboration on the 6 wires to the multifunction button harness. It does elaborate on the 6 (no paddles) vs 9 (with paddles) vs 10 (with paddles and lane keep) wire connection between the E441 right side buttons module and the E440 left side buttons module.

Kostal vs Valeo is not a concern when looking at the same vehicle, as Audi started subbing in Valeo on the Avant and Coupe with no change to other components or functionality. Your MY10 A5 coupe should be using a Kostal unit; the switch to Valeo was May 31 '10, which would have been for start of MY11 production. But that switch had no change in any other related component. Also, the Q5, as the A4 sedan and the A5 cabriolet, used the same Kostal unit throughout its B8 run. The same "some kostal / some valeo" thing is seen with the C7.

So back to the airbag harness. Am I to assume your two steering wheels are both PR 1XX? three-spoke, round, with buttons, with paddles? So they use both a different airbag harness and a different multifunction buttons harness.

B8.0 A5 1XX - AB harness 8K0 971 589 A, MF harness 4F0 971 589 B
B8.0 Q5 1XX - AB harness 8R0 971 589 A, MF harness 8P0 971 589 P
They both use the same multifunction button modules and paddles. Pics of the MF harness (cable between the two button modules) look the same, I assume it's simply another supplier or parts bin difference.

So why the different part numbers for the harnesses? Are the harnesses in fact actually different? You have both in hand, so you should be able to bring that knowledge to the table.

https://wolfautoparts.com/steering-wheel-airbag-wiring-harness-8k0971589a-305967.html
We can see the two wires to the stray terminals for the horn, the two wires to the two different airbag plugs. Then, though only 3 of the wires are used (12v, ground, LIN) according to other sources, we see the harness has all 6 wires to the plug to the MF harness. The presumption that only three wires are relevant is because the MF harness plug has only three wires on it. And if we look at a B8.5 harness 8U0 971 589 J, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steering-Wheel-Airbag-Wiring-Harness-OEM-for-AUDI-Q5-A4-A5-A6-S5-RS4-RS5-QUATTRO-/231813747548, we see they finally stopped using three unnecessary wires.

https://wolfautoparts.com/steering-wheel-air-bag-wiring-harness-8k0971589g-314838.html
Here we see the 8K...G that replaced the 8K...A for MY12. The green tab is reshaped, but otherwise, there's no apparent difference. Presumably, the change is just a supply change for the 12-pin plug.

https://wolfautoparts.com/pimento-beige-steering-airbag-air-bag-wiring-harness-8r0971589a-321941.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-AUDI-Q5-STEERING-WHEEL-AIR-BAG-WIRING-HARNESS-8R0-971-589-A-OEM-09-10-11-12/153851765090
The 8R harness for the different airbag is also quite different. But not really. The extra yellow wire that connects to some place on the airbag appears to be a join of the ground wires from the two airbag plugs. And the plug to the MF harness still has all 6 wires present. You'll clearly have to use this harness with the Q5 airbag; the AB harnesses are not interchangeable.

So you'd need to ring out the 8R harness if you wanted to see if there was something more or different at the yellow plug vs the 8K harness.

My 2009 A4 avant, your 2010 A5 coupe, and that 2011 Q5 all use the same buttons and the same coil spring. That the Q5 uses a different harness for its different airbag is a non issue to me.

[overjagi]

Excellent !!


1-2 is the horn, 3-4 if the airbag igniter N95, 5-6 is the airbag igniter N250, 7-12 is to the multifunction button harness (that 6-pin plug on the end of it that connects to the airbag harness). Is the norm. The wiring diagram I have from erwin provides no colors for the wires on the steering wheel side, and provides no elaboration on the 6 wires to the multifunction button harness. It does elaborate on the 6 (no paddles) vs 9 (with paddles) vs 10 (with paddles and lane keep) wire connection between the E441 right side buttons module and the E440 left side buttons module.
Can you provide me please the wiring diagram for B8 from erwin to check this, I have the B7 harness wiring diagram and I was thinking was the same than B8, but B7 has just 5 MFC wires and #12 pin is EMPTY
194325


So back to the airbag harness. Am I to assume your two steering wheels are both PR 1XX? three-spoke, round, with buttons, with paddles? So they use both a different airbag harness and a different multifunction buttons harness.
Yes, i have them like this
I was worried about the MF harness (cable between the two button modules) are the only differences in buttons and paddles, but you say
"look the same, I assume it's simply another supplier or parts bin difference."


We can see the two wires to the stray terminals for the horn, the two wires to the two different airbag plugs. Then, though only 3 of the wires are used (12v, ground, LIN) according to other sources,
Which one is not used?



So why the different part numbers for the harnesses? Are the harnesses in fact actually different? You have both in hand, so you should be able to bring that knowledge to the table.
In hand I only have the 8R, the 8K/8T is in the dealer with the car, I attached the first version of the 8R yellow plug diagram with no EMPTY pins, but as i said before dont have the B8 diagram to compare, thanks for your complete the diagram information, I am not very familiar with this tech
194330

[Smac770]

The wiring diagram doesn't say anything useful about the wiring between the J527 and the MF buttons, wires 7-12 on the coil spring plug. It's the J527 pin listing in the repair manual - electronics that was more enlightening. But this is where what's in my doc is clearly outdated. It does list specs for pins 7-12:

7 - Tip down
8 - Terminal 30
9 - LIN
10 - Tip up
11 - Dimming (terminal 58s)
12 - Tip ground

But those clearly cannot be the case. This would agree with the doc I found about the D3.0 steering wheel controls. But we see the 6-pin plug attached to the E441 (right button module) that plugs into the airbag harness has only 3 wires connected. I looked around for the paddle version, 4E0 951 527 AJ, and the same, just three wires.

If we look at the E441 for the 1XX wheel for the C6.5 A6, we see the same as our B8.0 1XX: 4E0 951 527 AJ.
If we look at the E441 for the 1XX wheel for the C6.0 A6 (same as for the Q7), we see 4F0 951 527 F. Looking around, this too, only three wires on the plug.
If we go back to the 2003 D3.0 A8 (the originator of this tech that then filtered down to the 2005 C6.0 (A6) and 2007 B8.0 (A5)), we see there's not a wire hanging off the E441. Instead the airbag harness plugged directly into it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-AUDI-A8-STEERING-WHEEL-AIR-BAG-WIRING-HARNESS-4E0-971-589-OEM-04-05-/132385786528
B7.0 uses the same buttons as C6.0
B8.0 uses the same buttons as C6.5

So my take is in the beginning, the paddles used separate lines, but then the C6 came and they thought "why not just put that on the LIN bus too", so they did, reducing the wire connection to 3. And whoever put the repair manual doc together pulled the wrong pin listing for the coil spring connector on the J527 as it exists in the B8.

So what's on 10,11,12 on the yellow plug really doesn't matter, they don't go to anything. You should find they are pins 4,5,6 on the plug to the E441. But if you look, the plug from the E441 has nothing on those pins. (I'm guessing at 4/5/6, it could be 1/2/3, I don't have it in my face to look at).

[overjagi]

excelent details


The wiring diagram doesn't say anything useful about the wiring between the J527 and the MF buttons, wires 7-12 on the coil spring plug. It's the J527 pin listing in the repair manual - electronics that was more enlightening. But this is where what's in my doc is clearly outdated. It does list specs for pins 7-12:


So there is not 8K/8T yellow diagram airbag harness? to compare with the 8R ;(



So what's on 10,11,12 on the yellow plug really doesn't matter, they don't go to anything. You should find they are pins 4,5,6 on the plug to the E441. But if you look, the plug from the E441 has nothing on those pins. (I'm guessing at 4/5/6, it could be 1/2/3, I don't have it in my face to look at).
Well i have checked and there are wires in #1,2,3 order in the E441 (#4,5,6 are empty), but there is not color continuity in the airbag harness.
Also 10,11,12 in the yellow plug are the 1,2,3 in the airbag harness, does it confirm your considerations?
194644194645


What is that extra clear white plug for? Which pin on the coil spring plug does it ring to? Does it go in the extra hole in the steering wheel at the 4 o'clock position?
.. I am curious if the extra plug that goes to the airbag is connected to the horn ground line, or where it rings out to.
I got the detailed pic of the extra white plug for this question could help
194685

[Smac770]

Is the extra wire in that pic welded to the airbag frame? That pic seems to show a male spade welded to the airbag frame. The pic of the harness at wolf appears to show a female spade connector, like there should be a blade somewhere for it to plug onto.

As for the 6-pin plug, ok. So 1/2/3 on the 6-pin plug matches to 12/11/10 on the coil spring plug. Ok.

I still see nothing that says or tests out that the Q5 wheel is not a direct no-modification swap.

You'd have to sit there with a multimeter and ring out all 12 pins on the coil spring plug of both the 8R harness and the 8K harness and demonstrate an actual discrepancy between the wire pathing. I suspect the extra wire on the airbag side routes to pin 2, shared ground with the horn circuit.

[overjagi]

Is the extra wire in that pic welded to the airbag frame? That pic seems to show a male spade welded to the airbag frame. The pic of the harness at wolf appears to show a female spade connector, like there should be a blade somewhere for it to plug onto.
I suspect the extra wire on the airbag side routes to pin 2, shared ground with the horn circuit.
Hi, attaching a picture showing the wires (3) connected to the airbag,
Also,I guess the black horn (2 wires), one goes to the white rectangle and other to the yellow plug...
195058
Also airbag has some some rusted zones and black horn spade connector fits loose, is that a sign maybe this airbag is not well or was blown/repaired?

[JaviA4SLine8.5]

Refreshing this thread as I’m desperate for assistance.

My car is a B7 2008 A4 cabriolet (8h):
- Original Steering Wheel - Audi (8P0-419-091-DE-TNA) / 3-spoke sport wheel with Tiptronic/paddles.
- Original Airbag- 8H0-880-201-AQ-1DH /
- Original Airbag Harness: 8H0-971-589-B / it has the yellow plug connector with a purple single lock on the top and the extra little plug for the multi-function controls. Two connectors to the airbag- orange and green plugs.

New Steering Wheel: I recently purchased a flat-bottom steering wheel on ebay (from Poland) which indicated it was a fit for the Audi A4 B7 and B8 chassis models. I’m already regretting my decision- I was not educated prior to purchasing the steering wheel and incorrectly assumed this was a plug and play situation.
- New Steering Wheel- Audi (8T0-419-091-B-WUL) / 3-spoke sport wheel with Tiptronic/paddles.
- Airbag- ??? I don’t know,
o I think I need an 8K0-880-201-G-6PS, but on ebay I finding that although this one has the right shape, some of them come with a harness that has a single plug on the center of the airbag—while other pictures on ebay, with the same part number, have two plugs on the center. How is this possible if it is the same/exact part number- I don’t know. In any case, the plug is different.
- Airbag Harness: ???

Questions: Is this doable at all? Although my B7 airbag is similar and has the “shield shape” it does not fit the B8 steering wheel. I believe the steering wheel I purchased is from a first generation A5 (Type 8T and member of the B8 family) because the part # of the steering wheel is 8T0419091BWUL. I haven’t been able to find that exact part number, but I found that the 3-Spoke Multi-Function Steering Wheel (Black color) part number is 8T0419091AWUL, created for the B8 A4 and A5. This is almost the same number on my steering wheel, except for the “modification code” which my steering wheel shows at “B” and this is under “A”.

So, does an 8K airbag (A4/S4 B8) can be fitted to an 8T (A5 B8) steering wheel? If yes, then my last question is if the 8k airbag harness compatible with the B7 in some way?

Any help, comments, suggestions, will be highly appreciated!

[JaviA4SLine8.5]

After much research, I’m still confused. Here are some questions that will help me and others in the future. If you know the answer, please reply with your comments. Thanks!

1. Besides deciphering each of the pin’s purpose, and possibly having to re-pin a few of the cables on the connector, is the best practice to use your car default connector with the new/different airbag so that it will connect properly to the clock spring? My concern is that the harness that comes with the required airbag for the new SW has a different connector shape- see below.

2. Follow Up to Q1> Do folks usually use the new airbag harness or use the factory one from the car with adaptations? My 2008 A4 Cabrio S-Line (w Sport Wheel and paddles) has two ground connections to the airbag; thus, I don’t know if I can use the old harness. Yet, if I use the new harness- it may not connect to the clock spring. Anyone has any experience with this?

3. Does anyone know if by using a connector that has the same locking color (mine is purple, but there are some that are orange, green, etc.) I can avoid the re-pining process? I’m inclined to buy an airbag that comes with a connector that, although it has a different shape, at least has the same color. Does it matter at all?*

4. Does the harness connector tip color matter? For example, if the airbag and harness donor vehicle is a manual transmission w/o multi-function controls, is the harness itself different or do all harness have all the cables and the functionality depends on what the SW has installed/and the clock spring VCDS settings? I believe my current connector should have 8 pins in use, seems that I need to make sure the harness has also 8 pins in use and in the same positions.

[Smac770]

The vehicle specific aspect is the J525 -> wiring -> coil spring plug
So each vehicle class has their own coil spring plug and pin layout in the coil spring plug.

That is matched by the airbag harness plug for that vehicle. It's plug and pinout match that of the coil spring for that vehicle class.
On the other end of the airbag harness is the necessary matching interfaces for the airbag, the horn, and the steering wheel controls plug.

So you're going to have to have the matching plug for your coil spring, and you're going to have to, if necessary, reorder the wires in the plug to connect the wheel components to the pins the J525 expects them to be on.
As for the airbag harness itself, you'll likely want the one that matches that airbag, as screwing around with those wires and plugs is a bad idea.

Which steering wheel controls are compatible is well documented. 8P yes, 8V no, B7/B8 yes, B9 no, C6 yes, C7 no, D3.5 yes, D4 no, 4L yes, 4M no. Well, this is true for a B8. I would expect it to be true also for a B7.

Which leaves the main question, which airbags are compatible with the programming logic of the J525 in the particular vehicle.
The B8 uses a single igniter for inflation (full force) and a second igniter for adjustment (to reduce force).
You though have a B7 (this being the B8 forum). So let's play this out:


SSP 254 for the 2001 B6 A4 (type 8E/8H) implies a "single stage" airbag, with only an N95 igniter.

Then we have the overhaul starting with the 2003 D3 A8, moving to "dual stage" airbags, with N95+N250 igniters. So D3/C6.0/B7/4L intro years (~2003-2006):

SSP 282 for the D3 A8 (type 4E) is brief, but has the same lingo as the following SSP for the C6.
SSP 323 for the C6 A6 (type 4F) introduction makes clear it's using a dual inflator config.
SSP 332 for the Mk2 A3 (type 8P) demonstrates this config in more detail. Mk2 TT (type 8J) should be the same.
SSP 343 for the B7 A4 (type 8E, or 8H cab) relates itself to the prior to SSPs, implying it uses the same config.
SSP 361 for the initial Q7 (type 4L) follows suit with the same centrally located dual inflation igniter system (tech doc is late '05, prod started '06).


SSP 392 for the 2007 B8 A5 (type 8T) yet another documentation of the same system. (tech doc is early '07, prod started mid '07). But I believe this information to turn out to be incorrect and the 8T used the same adaptive airbag tech as the B8 A4, next:


Then we have the initiation of the next transition, to an "adaptive" airbag that still uses two igniters (N95+N250), but one for inflation and one for adjustment/deflation. Both connections are still at the center, but you'll see a cord leading from one towards the upper edge of the airbag housing. This is laid out in page 11 of SSP 409 for the 2008 B8 A4 (type 8K).

The 2009 B8 Q5 (type 8R) is also an adaptive airbag, but the manner of the adaptation is different. Instead of the N250 being next to the N95 and releasing a cord to open a vent port, the N250 is now attached at the edge of the airbag frame, and blows open a ring of vent holes around the base of the airbag. The 2010 B8 A5 cabriolet (type 8F) also makes use of this variant of adaptive airbag. I didn't realize this difference before, but now it explains why the Q5, A5 sportback, and A5 cabriolet use a whole different set of steering wheel parts from the A4 sedan, A4 wagon, and A5 coupe.

The D4 A8 (type 4H) and C7 A6/A7 (type 4G) followed suit switching from dual stage to adaptive airbags. (using these terms as Audi uses them, they may or may not directly correlate to how other market entities use them)

Oddly, the Mk3 A3 (type 8V) went back to a single stage single N95 igniter airbag. No idea why.

And the Mk3 TT (type 8S, though Audi says its type FV) went to an adaptive airbag using N95 and N490 igniters. No idea why the different component reference code. No idea why it deviated from the A3, as they are both just VW clone products.

(there could be variance to this history between US spec and RoW spec vehicles, particularly in regards to the single stage airbag on the Mk3 A3; I was using RoW spec SSPs as the US spec ones tend to line out so much information; but for some reason this specific issue pops into my head)

So, with a B7, knowing your airbag control module expects a straight dual stage dual inflator config airbag, it limits you to looking for wheels that have such type of airbags that can physically mount to the wheel.

For example, here's the airbag in my 2009 A4, 8K0 880 201 A:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xCMAAOSwXSpgNs-W/s-l1600.jpg

We see the green N95 igniter plug and the orange N250 igniter plug on the raised tower with the cord around it. You would not use this airbag in your B7.

Now, if I look up the B8.0 A5 *coupe*, the parts catalog shows it using the same part numbers as the B8.0 A4. The B8.0 A5 coupe used "8K0..." airbag part numbers.


So could you use a B8 physical wheel? If your B7 airbag can fit to it. But you can't use a B8 airbag in your B7 vehicle (not if you care about what happens in a crash). But then there's the question of the grounding system in the wheel for the horn, etc. If you want a drop in replacement, you're looking D3 A8, C6 A6, B7 A4, 8P A3, or 8J TT I would imagine.


Looking at the B8 wheels you reference:
8T0 419 091 A - for the B8.0 A4 sedan / A4 wagon / A5 coupe subdivision I referenced previously. This is the PR-1XW wheel. Three-spoke round wheel with trapezoid airbag and mutilfunction buttons.
8T0 419 091 B - same applications as rev A, except it's the PR-1XX wheel. Three-spoke round wheel with trapezoid airbag and multifunction buttons and paddle shifters.

The necessary airbag for these two wheels would be 8K0 880 201 E, since replaced by 8K0 880 201 AL (very well could have been replaced again by a newer revision).
But this is a string-cord style adaptive airbag and not logically compatible with your B7 airbag control module.


So again, it's not the wheel or buttons that are a problem, it's whether or not you can fit an airbag that's compatible with your control module.


Looking specifically at the part numbers for the B7 A4 steering wheels, the 1XW wheel is 8P0 419 091 CM, later 8P0 419 091 DD. And the 1XX wheel is 8P0 419 091 CN, later 8P0 419 091 DE. These are the unbadged versions. If you want one with s-line or S4 badges, those are different part numbers. These wheels use the US spec airbag 8H0 880 201 M.

[JaviA4SLine8.5]

Dear Smac770, thanks much for the detailed explanation- I wish I had this information a few weeks ago! I’m sure this will help others like me, thus I’m glad that we now have all this valuable information on this threat. I also wish the ebay steering wheel sellers will include this information on their respective posts- but buyer’s beware- I know it’s my fault for relying on them indicating the B8 SW was automatically a fit for my B7 Cabrio- lesson learned the hard way. I was not aware of the existence of the SSP Manuals- I found them on google and it’s great to have this information.

Now, let me validate my understanding of the information you provided since I’m still unsure on whether or not I got lucky and will be able to make this work:
- The matching to the coil spring is the critical piece to make sure everything works correctly.
- Even if I get an airbag/harness that fits the B8 steering wheel, that does not matter if it doesn’t match the coil spring plug of my B7 vehicle.
- However, a steering wheel/airbag swap will work if the new plug and pinout match that of the coil spring for that vehicle class.

Now, from my vehicle:
- I have "dual stage" airbags on my 2008 Audi A4 Cabrio. I deduced this because my original airbag has the green N95 igniter plug and the orange N250 igniter (both connections at the center of the airbag and my old/and new orange n250 are not raised on the tower like the picture you shared).
- The airbag I purchased (waiting for delivery) is part number (8E0-880-201-DH-6PS) and it will fit the shape of the 8T0 419 091 B. However, I’m not sure if this will match the coil spring.
- You indicated that I won’t be able to use the B8 Airbag in my B7 vehicle- is that the case for the 8E0-880-201-DH-6PS airbag even when it has the same dual-stage concept and the same igniters? How do I know if the 8E0-880-201-DH-6PS airbag is a string-cord style adaptive airbag and not logically compatible with my B7 airbag control module? Note that the 8E0-880-201-DH-6PS airbag has the same green/orange igniter plugs, not raised, but I’m still very confused about whether or not this is a dual-stage and also adaptive airbag- is this the key?

According to the information I found online, airbag 8E0-880-201-DH-6PS (replaced by 8E0-880-201-BN-6PS) fits the following vehicles:
Year / Make Model / Body & Trim / Engine & Transmission
2008 Audi A4 Base, Cabriolet 2.0L L4 - Gas, 3.2L V6 - Gas
2008 Audi A4 Quattro Avant, Base, Cabriolet 2.0L L4 - Gas, 3.2L V6 - Gas
2008 Audi RS4 Base, Cabriolet 4.2L V8 - Gas
2008 Audi S4 Avant, Base, Cabriolet 4.2L V8 – Gas

So, how I can confirm that the 8E0-880-201-DH-6PS airbag won’t fit a B7 Cabrio (8H) coil spring plug? I guess that if the airbag is incompatible (adaptive string cord) then that’s the end of the road—even if I’m able to shave the connector or move the pins to match the coil spring.

I hope I got some of this right. Thanks once again!

[Smac770]

Hello,

Yeah, that's the problem with Audi's chosen dialog, it's not uniquely qualifying. That's why I said I'm using the terms as Audi relates them. Obviously, both forms of airbags are dual stage and dual igniter and adaptive. But the dual stage is a design logic of two partial inflators, both fired for full force. While the adaptive is a design logic of one full force igniter and a second igniter to reduce the force. That's why you can't mix them. When the airbags go off, you're going to get the opposite result the airbag controller was intending.


parts bin 8E0... is type 8E B6/B7 A4 sedan/wagon. So it's clearly not going to be an adaptive since that concept didn't exist until B8 (type 8K). The question is if it's a B6 single stage or a B7 dual stage.


If I go to https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/ and put in the part number 8E0880201DH in the upper right field and expand the results, we see it's for the B7 (05-08) sedan and wagon (the two categories there are A4 (FWD) and A4Q (quattro)). Oddly, we see it listed for the B8.0 A5 coupe. So let's look.

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a5.../9/959-959030/

So we see there were three revs used for the airbag controller. No rev from Jun '07 - Sep '07. Then J rev from Sep '07 - Nov '10. Then L rev.

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a5.../8/880-880000/

So we see 8E dual stage airbags were used in the 2-door coupe until Sep '07. Then it was switched to the 8K string-style adaptive airbags. As I mentioned, the 4-door sportback and later 2-door cabriolet used the 8R vent-style adaptive airbags.


So we come to the remaining question. Why 8E airbags in the sedan/wagon but 8H airbags in the cabriolet. The B7 8E 1XW/1XX uses airbag harness 4F0 971 589 A, while B7 8H 1XW/1XX uses airbag harness 8H0 971 589 A. The steering wheels themselves are also different part numbers. I have no idea what the considerations are in the drop top environment for them to bother with different parts.

The B7 8H 1XW/1XX airbag, 8H0880201M, now 8H0880201AP: not a single picture of this thing on the whole google search. While we have numerous pics of the 8E...DH and it's obviously a dual stage airbag as I've noted. No way to know if the 8E...DH/BN will fit in place of the 8H...M/AP in whatever wheel you have. Both use at some time an 8P wheel for 1XX, so I would random guess there's a chance. As for what's different about the two airbag harnesses, could be nothing. You'd have to pin them out and see if they are physically and pinout the same.

[Smac770]

If the 8E...DH fits in the wheel you're trying to use, I imagine the remaining concern is the airbag harness. You need to compare the pinout of the two harnesses and see if there are any differences. It's possible there will be differences in the ground pins specific to the different airbags and so you might need to use the one that goes with the airbag you picked, but then fix the pinout if necessary at the coil spring plug to put the correct things on the correct pins as the cabriolet expects it. I do not know the B7 wiring; I don't have that documentation since I don't own one.

[R@v3n]

Hey guys, bringing it back from the dead sort of. How do you freaking de-pin the yellow connector? I am not sure how it is exactly done and don't want to destroy it....

[Smac770]

There's going to be a secondary lock you need to remove first typically. Usually purple color.

But seems you have to use the hole on the side? I don't know. I think the real problem is people generally not having the correct tool for this particular plug. Not sure what the correct spec for the depinning tool is. Audi just has a box of all the various tools, so doesn't specify the correct spec for each usage.

https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/194248-How-to-remove-Pins-from-a-Steering-wheel-Connector-A4-B6/page2
maybe

Interesting that there's not a single video on YT showing how to work with the terminal pins in this plug considering the number of people changing it around.

[R@v3n]

There's going to be a secondary lock you need to remove first typically. Usually purple color.

But seems you have to use the hole on the side? I don't know. I think the real problem is people generally not having the correct tool for this particular plug. Not sure what the correct spec for the depinning tool is. Audi just has a box of all the various tools, so doesn't specify the correct spec for each usage.

https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/194248-How-to-remove-Pins-from-a-Steering-wheel-Connector-A4-B6/page2
maybe

Interesting that there's not a single video on YT showing how to work with the terminal pins in this plug considering the number of people changing it around.

Ya, the purple stop was easy to get out. After the purple stop is where I am confused. One Youtube video showed a guy point to the square holes so I thought that was where you stick something into but I am leaning towards the small rectangles in the middle? Looking back at some of the pictures, someone does point to the rectangles so I think I will try that. I just ordered some tools on Amazon so I will wait for them to come in before I am stuck having to buy another harness lol.

I do wish there was a Youtube video specifically for de-pinning this harness and how they finessed it out though lol.

[Smac770]

Look at the plug on the coil spring. See the pins, they ain't going in those flat openings.