Evidence mounting that S4 is underrated

[altecdell]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/report-evidence-mounting-that-2010-audi-s4-is-underrated/

REPORT: Evidence mounting that 2010 Audi S4 is underrated
by Jonny Lieberman (RSS feed) on Oct 28th 2009 at 7:25PM

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/audis4leader.jpg

To many people, Audi is replacing BMW as the go-to yuppie-mobile of choice. For one thing, Walter de'Silva's designs are almost universally lauded (Q7 notwithstanding) whereas the new crop of Bangled Bimmers are... controversial to put it as nicely as humanly possible. But it's not just down to looks and interior -- it can't be.

For the past decade or so Audi, BMW and of course Mercedes-Benz have all been engaged in mercilessly meeting each other tit-for-tat. 3/5/7 Series vs. 4/6/8 vs. C/E/S-Class, M/AMG/S, X5/ML/Q7, etc. It goes on forever. But the point is, Audi and BMW appear to be on equal footing and it looks like Audi has taken the copycat game to new heights.

Everyone knows that the BMW 335i is the most underrated car currently on the market in terms of raw thrust and grunt. BMW claims 300 hp and 300 torques, but even dogs know that BMW's trick 3.0-liter twin-turbo engine puts out much closer to 350 hp and 350 tire-spinning pound feet of torque. Why? Well, lower insurance rates for their customers probably isn't one of the reasons. However, remember that when the E90/E92 3 Series came out, BMW was still selling the 333 horsepower E46 M3. Meaning that it would be pretty hard to sell an older, $55,000 car with less power than a newer and just as quick $40,000 car. Or so the theory goes, though we should point out that BMW engineers angrily call us liars when we bring this scenario up.

And guess what? Looks like Audi is pulling the same trick with their new supercharged S4. Volkswagen and Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques. Gulp. Tip of the Audi driving cap to Brenton!

[myb5quattro]

my reaction to this article-
[:D] [drive] [race] [hail] [up]
That's a big difference in stated vs actual power!

[KNaudi]

I'm reminded of the old skyline as being massively under-rated from the factory. Glad to see Audi is going down this road now.

[Sharkfin]

Huge difference in numbers, [up]

[NWS4Guy]

I'm reminded of the post just below this one [:D]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318173


Where the guys who did the test posted it 2 days ago before it became something on a blog.

[bunnn]

does that mean the claimed power gains from MTM and/or other tuners is a load of bs? ...not to take away from any of them being a reputable tuner...but the yield of nearly 100hp..is not exactly 100hp?

[NWS4Guy]

does that mean the claimed power gains from MTM and/or other tuners is a load of bs? ...not to take away from any of them being a reputable tuner...but the yield of nearly 100hp..is not exactly 100hp?

No, because MTM and others have very carefully said what the TOTAL new HP is, none has ever stated a gain amount. This is smart for them since paying around 3-4K for a piggy back when you think you are getting a ~25%ower gain if you assume you are getting +100HP is easier to swallow than the same cost for half that power gain.

So they are likely pretty accurate stating you can get 430HP, but now everyone will see that gain is not ~100HP, but closter to ~30-50HP.

[EuroA4]

I think there is enough evidence of APR's questionable dyno numbers that we can all agree that Audi did not underrate their HP by nearly 70chp...GTFO!!

[bunnn]

No, because MTM and others have very carefully said what the TOTAL new HP is, none has ever stated a gain amount. This is smart for them since paying around 3-4K for a piggy back when you think you are getting a ~25%ower gain if you assume you are getting +100HP is easier to swallow than the same cost for half that power gain.

So they are likely pretty accurate stating you can get 430HP, but now everyone will see that gain is not ~100HP, but closter to ~30-50HP.

that's true ..they never did exactly disclose gains .. regardless it's good to see that the new s4 kicks ass

[F16HTON]

I think there is enough evidence of APR's questionable dyno numbers that we can all agree that Audi did not underrate their HP by nearly 70chp...GTFO!!

APR has much higher integrity than any other tuner when it comes to posting dyno numbers. Do not even try to toss out the bullshit AWE card because APR chooses to average 6 pulls and convert to an excel graph.

All of the B8 chassis cars have been underrated from the factory...

The B8 S4 is an amazing car, I expect to see it on the podium several times this season in Koni GS.

[b6onboost]

Impressive.

We've all seen the comparo between the S4 and 335i. Its common knowledge that the 335i is closer to 330 crank hp. So if a 330chp rwd 335i cannot outrun an awd S4, you know the S4 is making more power. And not just a little more, but probably atleast 10% more due to the drivetrain loss. So 360+ crank hp for the new S4 isn't unreal.

Although...if the B8 S4 does make that kind of power, why hide it? Why not atleast rate it at or above the B7 S4, just to show improvement. To entice B7 S4 owners to trade up for the 'more powerful' B8? Plus horsepower sells cars. If the S4 is rated closer to M3 numbers, a lot of potential M3 sedan buyers may pick up the cheaper S4, if the rated HP numbers were closer.

So from the track tests and dynos it seems the S4 is underrated, yet I don't see a reason for Audi to underrate it by a large amount.

[EuroA4]

APR has much higher integrity than any other tuner when it comes to posting dyno numbers. Do not even try to toss out the bullshit AWE card because APR chooses to average 6 pulls and convert to an excel graph.

All of the B8 chassis cars have been underrated from the factory...

The B8 S4 is an amazing car, I expect to see it on the podium several times this season in Koni GS.


I never said it was not under rated, just that nearly 70chp seems like a big number to use. If you are Audi why wouldn't you want to use a larger HP number to market your car (within reason)...the number on the sticker and magazine ads is the number most people see and use to compare, right?

I'm not trying to start another long drawn out debate on who has the best method...but let's not just take just one sample is all.

I agree its an awesome car, and I'm sure APR will make it even faster...that was not my point though.

[Keith@APR]

I think there is enough evidence of APR's questionable dyno numbers that we can all agree that Audi did not underrate their HP by nearly 70chp...GTFO!!

Or there is no evidence. Please present data so you don't seem to be offering baseless accusations and position yourself as nothing more than an AWE fanboy.

[EuroA4]

Or there is no evidence. Please present data so you don't seem to be offering baseless accusations and position yourself as nothing more than an AWE fanboy.

Nice try Keith...There is plenty of evidence in the A4 forum if people want to search for it.

[SoCalS4Avant]

What's the deal with the second thread on this topic! [>_<] I guess it's that important to discuss twice! [up]

Thanks for reposting this...I think it's important that people know the understated power of the new S4.

[Keith@APR]

Nice try Keith...There is plenty of evidence in the A4 forum if people want to search for it.

Nope, sure isn't. I apologize that you are confused and mislead by others.

[riegeraudi]

Impressive.

We've all seen the comparo between the S4 and 335i. Its common knowledge that the 335i is closer to 330 crank hp. So if a 330chp rwd 335i cannot outrun an awd S4, you know the S4 is making more power. And not just a little more, but probably atleast 10% more due to the drivetrain loss. So 360+ crank hp for the new S4 isn't unreal.

Although...if the B8 S4 does make that kind of power, why hide it? Why not atleast rate it at or above the B7 S4, just to show improvement. To entice B7 S4 owners to trade up for the 'more powerful' B8? Plus horsepower sells cars. If the S4 is rated closer to M3 numbers, a lot of potential M3 sedan buyers may pick up the cheaper S4, if the rated HP numbers were closer.

So from the track tests and dynos it seems the S4 is underrated, yet I don't see a reason for Audi to underrate it by a large amount.

My guess is Audi can't put the 400hp number on the S4 officially because that would come really close to the RS4 and RS5 numbers and would probably hurt the sales of those vehicles. This also happened with the 335i and the M3.
Either that or Audi gave APR a special S4. Keith did you get the car from a dealer or did Audi know that this vehicle was for you guys?

[Keith@APR]

My guess is Audi can't put the 400hp number on the S4 officially because that would come really close to the RS4 and RS5 numbers and would probably hurt the sales of those vehicles. This also happened with the 335i and the M3.
Either that or Audi gave APR a special S4. Keith did you get the car from a dealer or did Audi know that this vehicle was for you guys?

We bought the first one available from a dealership nearby. I don't believe AoA knew anything about it but they did know what we were planning.

[L0U]

It was the breakin method! share,,,did you drive it like you stole it?

[Voltrons_Head]

Keith,
When can we expect an ECU upgrade to be available? I'm dying for it. Thanks.

[riegeraudi]

Keith,
When can we expect an ECU upgrade to be available? I'm dying for it. Thanks.

Ya he's not going to tell you that. He's just teasing at the moment so it will be shortly, otherwise he wouldn't tease you like this.