How much over invoice is too much for a new S4?

[Brunotheboxer]

How much over invoice did you guys pay? Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

[UmIsThisThingOn]

There are people stating that they have been able to get the car for a % above Invoice.
I was able to get 2% off MSRP...

It's a hot car, so IMO you're lucky if you get *anything* off of MSRP this early in it's launch cycle.

[NWS4Guy]

How much over invoice did you guys pay? Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

6% off MSRP, came out close to 500-600 over invoice, but this was due to Audi Supplier program. Most are getting a good deal with about 1K - 1.2K over.

[Brunotheboxer]

6% off MSRP, came out close to 500-600 over invoice, but this was due to Audi Supplier program. Most are getting a good deal with about 1K - 1.2K over.

Thanks. 1K is what I thought was a fair price.

[legbend]

I got $300 over invoice. No discounts.

[c52k]

I paid invoice. Took talking to about 6 dealerships to find one willing to deal and it turned out they had a car on the lot that was exactly what i wanted so i don't know if that added incentive to deal.

[jonmiles]

How much over invoice did you guys pay? Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Any discount under MSRP is good on an S4. We sold all 8 of our initial allocation in 4 days at an average discount of about $700. There is no reason for dealers to whore these things out when there are very few of them available, and demand is so high.

That being said, if you place an order with me, I will give you invoice plus 3% ;-)

[L0U]

1000 over invoice is ok. I had to wait 4 months for mine, if there had been one on the lot, I'd have paid 1000 more 4 months ago for it.

[blrs25]

I'm placing an order myself in December... has anyone been getting audi care thrown in? Furthermore, is it better to just ask for cash of MSRP or to ask them to throw things into the deal and ask for a smaller ammount of cash off? Appreciate any comments, Thanks.

[trigoe]

I'm placing an order myself in December... has anyone been getting audi care thrown in? Furthermore, is it better to just ask for cash of MSRP or to ask them to throw things into the deal and ask for a smaller ammount of cash off? Appreciate any comments, Thanks.

I think one of the audi guys on here said that nobody gets a good deal on an S4 AND audi care thrown in. Maybe if you pay sticker and they call it throwing it in... it's all in the perception. The way you construct your deal is all in how you perceive it. But the final total doesn't lie.

But audicare is 740 dollars and I think the dealer makes not much really on that so there isn't much room to maneuver. At least, thats how I remember that thread going to the best of my recollection.

Of course, there's always somebody to say "Well, they did it for me". [;)]

[VAstyle]

So dealer invoice for an S4 prestige manual is like 43k and you guys are saying I can pay invoice give or take 1%? Where can I sign up? I test drove one yesterday and I'm obsessed now! That car was amazing, I couldn't stop smiling.

[lsondubz]

^^ for 44k sign me up tomorrow. done deal

[tgrundke]

I don't think invoice on a Prestige model is $43k - I think a Prestige with nothing else comes to around $50k invoice.

That said, unless money is no object there are few cars worth $500 - $1,000 over invoice. If you can afford to wait it out, do so. Otherwise, depending on your geographic locale, expect to pay more.


So dealer invoice for an S4 prestige manual is like 43k and you guys are saying I can pay invoice give or take 1%? Where can I sign up? I test drove one yesterday and I'm obsessed now! That car was amazing, I couldn't stop smiling.

[02A4TURBO]

My Lease was based off of a price that was approx 4.5% off invoice. Great dealer relationship over 10+ years, etc.

I've been seeing a lot of S4s on dealer lots (and in newspapers) in the the PA/NJ/NY/CT area.... I don't think these things are (maybe not yet?) flying off the shelves like people thought or like the dealers want you to believe - and candidly, I have NO idea why. That said, I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice, period.

[Gzo17]

Is anyone willing to upload the dealer invoice cost sheet?

[tgrundke]

Check edmunds.com; You can build out and price it all from there.


Is anyone willing to upload the dealer invoice cost sheet?

[tgrundke]

Easy: with no home equity ATM, few $50,000 cars are flying off of shelves, no matter how good they are. ;-)

Seriously, though, outside of the enthusiasts and people with cash to burn, few cars are moving.



I've been seeing a lot of S4s on dealer lots (and in newspapers) in the the PA/NJ/NY/CT area.... I don't think these things are (maybe not yet?) flying off the shelves like people thought or like the dealers want you to believe - and candidly, I have NO idea why. That said, I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice, period.

[02A4TURBO]

Easy: with no home equity ATM, few $50,000 cars are flying off of shelves, no matter how good they are. ;-)

Seriously, though, outside of the enthusiasts and people with cash to burn, few cars are moving.

But you'd think people are shopping down, no? People who historically bought cars in the $60k-$80k range, and are now watching what they're spending, would look at this car as great value, I would think.

[NWS4Guy]

I think it is a gross assumption to think that due to the ecomony, EVERYONE is suffering. I and my family are much better off now than we were a year or two ago.

We've had a child, which is really the only extra costs, and it's not nearly as expensive as I had predicted. In the interim both myself and my wife have had pay increases, large bonuses, and refinanced the house for a much better rate, which lowered payments and put more cash into our budget.

I know I am not an isolated case - in the metro area I am in, while home prices had issues, it was only in certain ranges, primarily homes under 1 million. Those costing 1-4 million had a large upswing in demand and sales.

[jonmiles]

Easy: with no home equity ATM, few $50,000 cars are flying off of shelves, no matter how good they are. ;-)

Seriously, though, outside of the enthusiasts and people with cash to burn, few cars are moving.

Wrong. We have so little inventory that we have had to increase our pricing strategy to keep from running out of cars to sell.

If you want to drive the best product on the market at the price point (which the S4 CLEARLY is) you have to pay for it. Plain and simple.

[Brunotheboxer]

My Lease was based off of a price that was approx 4.5% off invoice. Great dealer relationship over 10+ years, etc.

I've been seeing a lot of S4s on dealer lots (and in newspapers) in the the PA/NJ/NY/CT area.... I don't think these things are (maybe not yet?) flying off the shelves like people thought or like the dealers want you to believe - and candidly, I have NO idea why. That said, I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice, period.

Enlighten me but why would a car dealer sell you a car for zero profit?

[L0U]

The early birds took the chance and got the deals. Now with many to showcase from owners, and the media showing time and time again that the car is special...and with recent dyno runs...demand/perceived value has gone up. Limited production run, with better than advertised power.....= you pay more. Or go without. After 2 days of blissfull driving, I'd have paid retail to get one off the lot. (instant gratification costs)

[NWS4Guy]

I live in a pretty good ecomony. There are lots of big businesses and unemployment is well under the country average. There are a lot of people with a lot of cash around here, and 3 Audi dealers within the greater metro area, the next closest would be Portland, OR.

Searching the inventory at the 3 in my area, and the one in Portland, there is ONE S4 for sale, (Ok Oregon has a '09 cabriolet, but no S4 sedans) which University got in about a week ago. They are all gone. None anywhere. That is demand, it's not artificial, and it's a reason you won't get a car for crazy amounts off.

University Audi (http://www.universityaudi.com/inventorydisplay.aspx?brw=new&s=new#s=fp&eln=Model&elv=S4&sb=&rs=0&pc=4&pcurr=1&ps=15&els=VehicleType%3A~Make%3A~Model%3A)

Barrier Audi (http://www.barriermotors.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&maxYear=2010&make=Audi&modelId=2363)

Larson Porsche Audi (http://www.larsonporscheaudi.com/inventorydisplay.aspx?brw=new&s=new#s=fp&eln=Make&elv=&sb=&rs=0&pc=4&pcurr=1&ps=10&els=VehicleType%3A~Price%3A~Make%3AAudi~Model%3A)

Sunset Imports in Oregon (http://www.sunsetimports.com/makemodel.php?make=Audi&model=S4&status=new)

[notjoefromnh]

Due to the shit economy some areas are hit harder than others and this leads to you getting better deals. I paid 500 over invoice and custom ordered my car. This is New England area though.

[VAstyle]

^^^ so what was $500 over invoice? Did you ask to see the invoive? This whole "invoice" thing is confusing me. Cuz I'd like to go down and pick up the Ibis one I test drove two days ago. But the tag is 60k.

[Stolky]

Wrong. We have so little inventory that we have had to increase our pricing strategy to keep from running out of cars to sell.

If you want to drive the best product on the market at the price point (which the S4 CLEARLY is) you have to pay for it. Plain and simple.

Interesting posture. Are we talking about an Audi or a Ferrari here?

[EYE4SPEED]

6% off MSRP, came out close to 500-600 over invoice, but this was due to Audi Supplier program. Most are getting a good deal with about 1K - 1.2K over.


Can you elaborate on the supplier program - similar to other domestic OEM's or just a fixed price? We get a discount with VW, but not with Audi? I thought that was sort of odd.

[jriddle11]

A close friend of mine got one for $1,000 off MSRP from a dealer in OH.

[NWS4Guy]

Can you elaborate on the supplier program - similar to other domestic OEM's or just a fixed price? We get a discount with VW, but not with Audi? I thought that was sort of odd.

http://www.audisupplier.com/

Basically if your company is a partner of Audi (supplies something to them) you can get a no-dicker 6% off MSRP on any qualifying car. The S4 is one of them, which shocked me and my dealer :)

If you don't know about your company, ask your HR person or call Audi Supplier program.

[02A4TURBO]

Enlighten me but why would a car dealer sell you a car for zero profit?

It's my understanding that these cars have somewhere in the range of 6%-8% profit built in .. as such, if I got mine for 4.5% off invoice, there's still money to be made.

[Brunotheboxer]

It's my understanding that these cars have somewhere in the range of 6%-8% profit built in .. as such, if I got mine for 4.5% off invoice, there's still money to be made.

Link?

[HobbesA5]

It's my understanding that these cars have somewhere in the range of 6%-8% profit built in .. as such, if I got mine for 4.5% off invoice, there's still money to be made.
Then you appear to be talking about sticker, not invoice. Absent any holdback or incentive programs, invoice is the dealer's cost for the car. Paying actual invoice for a car on which the dealer has no incentives is giving them zero profit.

[93hrdtptt]

Then you appear to be talking about sticker, not invoice. Absent any holdback or incentive programs, invoice is the dealer's cost for the car. Paying actual invoice for a car on which the dealer has no incentives is giving them zero profit.

Well there is small profit even in the invoice..its called tissue.. When i worked at VW, for example; the rabbit had 600 dollars between msrp and invoice..everybody wanted a cheaper deal but thats all the moving room we had....even if they took the 600 off..there still was another 600 left in profit....PLUS, after you work all those stipulations out...you still need to go to the finance office, and you know they are making points on the backend from financing, tire and wheel, ect....and from what the boss used to say..the service department keeps the lights on, and sales makes the profit..so they make out either way...ehh

[saw1]

I was at the dealer today, they have a prestige coming in 6 weeks, MSRP 56,800. I offered 54k, they said no, and offered me $700 off MSRP. I will wait until my current lease is up in late December and then try to get the best deal I can.

In the Atlanta area, there is only 1 s-tronic. I think it is going to be tough to get a good deal, so I may have to go outside of Georgia, or just suck it up and pay close to MSRP. The car is truly great!

[thebishman]

When I went to my closest Audi dealer about six weeks ago, I offered to buy a Prestige S-Tronic for $2K off of the MSRP, (over $59K), for a car with the options I wanted; (essentially loaded). They found a car optioned the way I wanted, dealer transferred it a few days later, and I picked it up one week after I visited them. The sales manager never even baulked when I asked for the $2K off of the MSRP. My car when configured via www.edmunds.com had $4K profit between 'invoice' and msrp, so I felt that both parties got a good deal.
BTW, I also asked for and received Audi Care for a discounted price.
Bish

[tgrundke]

Most people are shopping down, one of the major reasons CPO/used sales are through the roof for luxury brands.

As far as Audi is concerned, they've got some very compelling models (A5/S5, Q5) that are selling well, but their mainstream product (A4/A6/Q7) that are more mass-marketed are seeing sales declines. Same over at BMW - the more niche models such as M3 are selling just fine.

For the S4, it's always been the enthusiasts' model that sold in relatively limited quantities. It's a bit of an experiment on Audi's part - moving the price down and attempting to attract more sales. Combined with the elimination of the A4 six-cylinder it should do the trick.

So yes, the mainstream is moving down - but the enthusiasts will continue to buy so long as they can. Also, as I said before, it all depends on your market: the coasts are probably selling fine, but the flyover states are still hurting.

But you'd think people are shopping down, no? People who historically bought cars in the $60k-$80k range, and are now watching what they're spending, would look at this car as great value, I would think.

[tgrundke]

You're absolutely right. On the aggregate the spending pattern changes are shocking: people are buying what they need, not necessarily what they want. My business too is doing better than most, but the problem is that many of our clients are still hurting.

That said, since we're talking about supply/demand for the S4,models like the S4, M3, C63, etc. tend to appeal to enthusiasts and the initial production should sell fairly well depending on your region. This is akin to people who tried to buy the S5/A5 in the first six months to a year of production and paid sticker or better. Since early this year they've been sitting on lots with discounts. The same will happen with the S4 given another 6 months or so.

So the question of how much to pay over invoice comes back to ones' need for gratification and willingness to pay compared to how well ones' local market is doing.



I think it is a gross assumption to think that due to the ecomony, EVERYONE is suffering. I and my family are much better off now than we were a year or two ago.

We've had a child, which is really the only extra costs, and it's not nearly as expensive as I had predicted. In the interim both myself and my wife have had pay increases, large bonuses, and refinanced the house for a much better rate, which lowered payments and put more cash into our budget.

I know I am not an isolated case - in the metro area I am in, while home prices had issues, it was only in certain ranges, primarily homes under 1 million. Those costing 1-4 million had a large upswing in demand and sales.

[marty was here]

My Lease was based off of a price that was approx 4.5% off invoice. Great dealer relationship over 10+ years, etc.

I've been seeing a lot of S4s on dealer lots (and in newspapers) in the the PA/NJ/NY/CT area.... I don't think these things are (maybe not yet?) flying off the shelves like people thought or like the dealers want you to believe - and candidly, I have NO idea why. That said, I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice, period.

i have a problem with this statement. i looked and actually physically went to dealers before i ordered mine, they advertise 5-6 on site with more coming in. in reality the most i saw was at paul miller, 2 on site, both really strange option combos.


ps what dealer? most i saw in PA was at don rosen, but as a company i dont think their numbers are strong

[trigoe]

about the S5's:


Since early this year they've been sitting on lots with discounts. The same will happen with the S4 given another 6 months or so.



Really? My dealer can't keep S5's in stock. they had none, and only ones coming in were pre-sold. Same thing with the A5's. Can't keep them in. I doubt they're the only one.

I really don't think you're going to see any kind of aggressive pricing with the S4's this year at all. Really, only 3000 being made? They are ALL going to go and go quickly. The remainder that haven't been pre sold will definitely move with very little effort. Sometimes, people see a few S4's in a dealer and mistakenly think they aren't selling. That's just not correct. There are too few of these cars and Audi is being very smart in keeping the "frenzy" around it that way.

[tgrundke]

Depends on what part of the country you're in. You're in Jersey, I'm in Ohio. Vastly different markets.


about the S5's:

Really? My dealer can't keep S5's in stock. they had none, and only ones coming in were pre-sold. Same thing with the A5's. Can't keep them in. I doubt they're the only one.

I really don't think you're going to see any kind of aggressive pricing with the S4's this year at all. Really, only 3000 being made? They are ALL going to go and go quickly. The remainder that haven't been pre sold will definitely move with very little effort. Sometimes, people see a few S4's in a dealer and mistakenly think they aren't selling. That's just not correct. There are too few of these cars and Audi is being very smart in keeping the "frenzy" around it that way.

[S-Fore]

Enlighten me but why would a car dealer sell you a car for zero profit?

There is never $0 profit. Factory to dealer exists all of the time. They sell @ minimum hoping to get your service, referrals and future business. People who know enough to walk away, get good deals. People who sign & drive, don't, for the most part.

[L0U]

Enlighten me but why would a car dealer sell you a car for zero profit?

To get rid of a certain problem he might have....like the mother in law?

[Stolky]

Enlighten me but why would a car dealer sell you a car for zero profit?

Invoice is not the same as dealer's actual cost. The dealer has profit back of invoice. Even if they sell to you at invoice, there's still profit for them.

[S-Fore]

Invoice is not the same as dealer's actual cost. The dealer has profit back of invoice. Even if they sell to you at invoice, there's still profit for them.

.....and, if the car sits too long the MFG will further discount the car to the dealer so that they can move it. Most dealers, sitting on inventory will wait for this to happen and try to make up by discounting the car slightly to take advantage of the MFG to dealer rebate.

[S-Fore]

Also FYI, I did a autotrader search, 100mi raduis from my home, and there are 60 B8S4's available at dealers. That hardly makes for a hot commodity. Gotta say, there are a he'll of a lot of blk & wht cars out there. I don't get that logic, personally.

[Brunotheboxer]

Also FYI, I did a autotrader search, 100mi raduis from my home, and there are 60 B8S4's available at dealers. That hardly makes for a hot commodity. Gotta say, there are a he'll of a lot of blk & wht cars out there. I don't get that logic, personally.

IB4 others say that can't possibly be correct.

[L0U]

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/s4winters.jpg

The deals right now are on B7 S4s, and B7 RS4s. S4s are not having problems selling. The yearly allotment for 2010 will be gone before 2010. slight exageration, but not by far.

(get a load of those rear hoops....15 lbs lighter per wheel than stock. Too bad they are the winters)

[S-Fore]

"Search Results>>We found 29 Audi listings with 63 total vehicles within 100 miles of Ardsley, NY "

B8 S4 is hardly a rare car. There are alot of cars out there, or there could just be a concentration in the tri-state area. search any distance and there are 224 cars listed. imagine how many are on lots that are not on autotrader.

[L0U]

Or, how many are in transport, but allready listed in autotrader, but not on the lot yet?

[NWS4Guy]

Actually, MANY are double and triple listings by the sales staff we have seen. There is a grand total of ONE at a dealer within 300 miles of Seattle, WA - it has been that way for over a week.

[equ]

about the S5's:

Really? My dealer can't keep S5's in stock. they had none, and only ones coming in were pre-sold. Same thing with the A5's. Can't keep them in. I doubt they're the only one.


I believe this to be incorrect for NJ (especially NNJ). Any dealer I went to had quite a few s5's sitting in Sept/Oct. Dramatic turnaround from last year when the car unfindable.

[L0U]

B8 S4 is hardly a rare car. There are alot of cars out there, or there could just be a concentration in the tri-state area. search any distance and there are 224 cars listed. imagine how many are on lots that are not on autotrader.

Then again rare is a relative term when comparing the thousands of 335s in the gta alone.

Even when they are sold out, the car wil still be a rare find on the street. 7000 alotment for 2010.

[NWS4Guy]

B8 S4 is hardly a rare car. There are alot of cars out there, or there could just be a concentration in the tri-state area. search any distance and there are 224 cars listed. imagine how many are on lots that are not on autotrader.

Then again rare is a relative term when comparing the thousands of 335s in the gta alone.

Even when they are sold out, the car wil still be a rare find on the street. 7000 alotment for 2010.[/QUOTE]

L0U - do they list VIN's? I know there have been a lot of mutiple listings.

I grabbed 5 random NY dealers:

Audi of Manhattan: 0 2010 S4's in stock

Audi of Huntington: They show 5 in stock, interestingly they ALL have 10 miles, have VIN's listed, but I am suspect - we'll call it 5 though

Audi of Brooklyn: 0 2010 S4's in stock

Langan Audi (Latham, NY) : 0 2010 S4's in stock

John Holtz Audi (Rochester) : 0 2010 S4's in stock

[sakimano]

B8 S4 is hardly a rare car. There are alot of cars out there, or there could just be a concentration in the tri-state area. search any distance and there are 224 cars listed. imagine how many are on lots that are not on autotrader

Then again rare is a relative term when comparing the thousands of 335s in the gta alone.

Even when they are sold out, the car wil still be a rare find on the street. 7000 alotment for 2010.

I think lots of those are fake...it used to be the same when I was looking for a B7 S4...100s would show up on the listing, but 90% of them were 'new' cars that didn't exist. Just a way to get people to call the showroom directly.

[adam.smith]

I think lots of those are fake...it used to be the same when I was looking for a B7 S4...100s would show up on the listing, but 90% of them were 'new' cars that didn't exist. Just a way to get people to call the showroom directly.

I don't know what it's like in Ontario, but out here in the west I haven't heard of anyone having them in stock - pre-orders only and no one is willing to talk discounts to sticker. The situation may have changed since I put in my order in September, but I doubt it. Maybe the allotment is just a lot more limited up here than down in the US.

[AvantB8]

Picked it up yesterday at $500 over the (Edmund's) invoice...

[kyee]

Picked it up yesterday at $500 over the (Edmund's) invoice...

which dealer?

[A4Ber]

I got mine July and paid 750 under msrp.

[AvantB8]

which dealer?

Braman in Florida

[vinlopic]

I just got an email from American Express Auto Purchasing Program. I went through this service to lock in a guaranteed price of no more than $1200 above invoice. (actually negotiated $1000 above invoice w/audi care half off)

Anyway, that guaranteed $1200 above invoice price now dropped $900 bucks to $300 above invoice due to introduction or increase in incentives and what not. I have a call into my salesman to see if this reduction will be honored towards my deal. I highly doubt it, but its worth a shot!

[Brunotheboxer]

I just got an email from American Express Auto Purchasing Program. I went through this service to lock in a guaranteed price of no more than $1200 above invoice. (actually negotiated $1000 above invoice w/audi care half off)

Anyway, that guaranteed $1200 above invoice price now dropped $900 bucks to $300 above invoice due to introduction or increase in incentives and what not. I have a call into my salesman to see if this reduction will be honored towards my deal. I highly doubt it, but its worth a shot!

Can you give details about this program.

[vinlopic]

Can you give details about this program.

Go to the following website...

http://amexnetwork.zag.com/configura...frontPricing=Y

Fill in information as you wish your car to be spec'd out. You will then have to locate a nearby dealer that honors this program. I had a dealer's rep contact me literally 5 seconds after filling it out. Went to the dealer with my print out and walked out about an hr later with a new S4 on order for $1000 over invoice w/half off audi care. Only downfall was I had to drive an hr to the closest participating dealer. Not a big deal at all, well worth the trip.

Make sure you ask if the dealer will honor this price on an ordered car. Some of the limitations mention this is valid for cars in stock only. Not sure if this is true with all dealers.

[SKIZNITS]

That amex site is pretty interactive...Im surprised.

From link however:
THIS PROGRAM IS AVAILABLE TO OUR VALUED CARDMEMBERS ONLY.
Maybe ill get an amex after all...
Are there any other programs like this out there>?


.

[jonmiles]

There is never $0 profit. Factory to dealer exists all of the time. They sell @ minimum hoping to get your service, referrals and future business. People who know enough to walk away, get good deals. People who sign & drive, don't, for the most part.


That may be how it worked 30 years ago, but not anymore. If you want to drive a hot car, then you have to pony up and pay for it.

All your negotiation skills mean shit with websites like this around:

www.truecar.com

[jonmiles]

Go to the following website...

http://amexnetwork.zag.com/configura...frontPricing=Y

Fill in information as you wish your car to be spec'd out. You will then have to locate a nearby dealer that honors this program. I had a dealer's rep contact me literally 5 seconds after filling it out. Went to the dealer with my print out and walked out about an hr later with a new S4 on order for $1000 over invoice w/half off audi care. Only downfall was I had to drive an hr to the closest participating dealer. Not a big deal at all, well worth the trip.

Make sure you ask if the dealer will honor this price on an ordered car. Some of the limitations mention this is valid for cars in stock only. Not sure if this is true with all dealers.


Where did you order? Bell Audi? I only see two sold orders in the country with your specs, and niether have alcantara... Are you sure you're actually going to get your car in 3 months, or is your order just going to sit in line until they get allocation?


Fyi; there are a couple that are available next month exactly as you have equipped.

[jonmiles]

Invoice is not the same as dealer's actual cost. The dealer has profit back of invoice. Even if they sell to you at invoice, there's still profit for them.

Not true with Audi. There is no holdback.

The closest thing they have to holdback is a re-imbursement system based on customer satisfaction, and how much the dealer spent building the facility

[02A4TURBO]

http://www.paulmilleraudi.com/new/index.cfm?&model=S4QUAT

That's just 1 dealer... that's a lot of S4s to be not yet sold- regardless of if they're on the lot or spec ordered by the dealer.

[jonmiles]

http://www.paulmilleraudi.com/new/index.cfm?&model=S4QUAT

That's just 1 dealer... that's a lot of S4s to be not yet sold- regardless of if they're on the lot or spec ordered by the dealer.


A couple of those are sold, but I'm honestly suprised they have that many! In the entire north eastern part of the country, there are less than 50 cars available for sale before January- thats 1 car for every 2 dealerships... Now keep in mind that most customers will want to choose the color, trim, interior, options... etc. For example, lets say I want a pretty common S4: Black with any interior, Navigation, sport diff and bang and olufson sound. Unless I want to wait until Jan/February, there is only 1 car that is showing available, and the chances of it actually BEING available are slim

[lsondubz]

I searched within 75 miles of where i live and there are 3

[i_eat_staples]

$12 trillion in U.S. household wealth has disappeared since the start of this recession, the last thing most people are doing right now is buying a brand new audi, dont buy into the dealer BS

[Hamann]

I think it is a gross assumption to think that due to the ecomony, EVERYONE is suffering. I and my family are much better off now than we were a year or two ago.

We've had a child, which is really the only extra costs, and it's not nearly as expensive as I had predicted. In the interim both myself and my wife have had pay increases, large bonuses, and refinanced the house for a much better rate, which lowered payments and put more cash into our budget.

I know I am not an isolated case - in the metro area I am in, while home prices had issues, it was only in certain ranges, primarily homes under 1 million. Those costing 1-4 million had a large upswing in demand and sales.

Rub it in a little...

You're not the average Joe bro'

The facts are, this was the worst recession in US history, and unemployment increased 120% in 2 years.

Stick to the question, and stop gloating in your success...it speaks volumes to your character.

Home values have decreased upwards of 60% in some areas...that's a fact. And, those homes you're talking about...in the 1-4 million range? LOL. Comical. Those were twice that 4 years ago...and, this isn't MTV Cribs dog...this is real people trying to save a few bucks on a 50k car.

douche

[Hamann]

That may be how it worked 30 years ago, but not anymore. If you want to drive a hot car, then you have to pony up and pay for it, cheap-ass.

All your negotiation skills mean shit with websites like this around:

www.truecar.com

You're a typical used-car salesmen...

Can I borrow your comb?

[L0U]

audi has sold more cars in 10 months this year than 12 months of last year....it is a record year. Someone bought the cars. This is for audi canada.

[sa_seahawker]

I goto TrueCar.com (http://www.truecar.com). That site is pretty good about telling you how much they paid for the car and what the average price paid is, what others in your area paid, etc. check it out....it's pretty handy. Knowledge is leverage in the car buying world

[S-Fore]

Yeah, damn right I'm a cheap ass. I'll keep as much of my money as I possibly can, everytime. Bottom line is, the S4 is a very nice car, but not exactly a "hot car". 50 available, that's a lot of $55k cars, and they are selling at discounts. Hell, now I'm no expert, this is just my opinion. You are the Audi sales specialist. And my negotiation skills, well it goes like this; I make a call, find out what the lease program is on said car, find the lender w the best money factor, have my brother plug the deal in with the cap cost that I want and the out of pocket that I want and the result is the payment that I want, including taxes of course. Next, I'll search for the car that I want, and keep going until someone gives me the deal I want. My '07 S4: $498/mo (incl tax) with $6000 out of pocket, $54Kcar, 36mos, 12k/yr, leased 2.5yrs ago. Tell me, is that a good deal?


That may be how it worked 30 years ago, but not anymore. If you want to drive a hot car, then you have to pony up and pay for it, cheap-ass.

All your negotiation skills mean shit with websites like this around:

www.truecar.com

[S-Fore]

Owned.
Nooo. I didn't want to come across like that. I was just stating my personal facts & experiences. Calling me a "cheap ass" and to "pony up" was a bit, unnecessary. My brother is a lexus dealer, and they have an audi store too. I can understand, any sales person hates ppl like me. They need to make money too, however, I just don't make it my concern. It always averages out over time. Right after a guy like me comes along, another one pays full boat and adds everything they're selling. On the other hand, I went back to the same dealer and got a similar deal on my Q7 and do all of my servicing there. I of course give them raving positive feedback when they call for all of the surveys. The satisfaction survey thing is the new system for a lot of mfg's.

[NWS4Guy]

Rub it in a little...

You're not the average Joe bro'

The facts are, this was the worst recession in US history, and unemployment increased 120% in 2 years.

Stick to the question, and stop gloating in your success...it speaks volumes to your character.

Home values have decreased upwards of 60% in some areas...that's a fact. And, those homes you're talking about...in the 1-4 million range? LOL. Comical. Those were twice that 4 years ago...and, this isn't MTV Cribs dog...this is real people trying to save a few bucks on a 50k car.

douche

You know, the B8 S4 forum is a nice place, and it lacks posts like this except only very, very occasionally. Maybe if you had read the entire thread, rather than reading the first post, skipping to mine and feeling it was ok to attack me, you might understand a little more. I'm not your bro.

If this is about average Joe's then they shouldn't and certainly won't be buying a B8 S4. They would be buying domestic, which have lesser features, lesser price tags and huge incentives. This car will only have 3,000 shipped to the US this year, it's not for the average Joe, not targeted at that buyer, and will not be produced in the volumes to allow for them to buy it. If the average Joe is looking to buy this car and is having a huge issue over an extra few hundred dollars, they might want to reassess their overall financial outlook and focus on things like removal of overall debt, rather than taking more on.

This forum is also for enthusiats and B8 S4 buyers, not for people to come with a chip on their shoulder and tell others how they should act. I've never seen you post on this forum before, and while I am sure you are well respected where you regularly post, the tone you set is not what the community over here is like and you are not making a great impression.

[Hamann]

Right. Tone was a little harsh, got it. I'll work on that.

The subject is/was: How much over invoice is too much for a new S4?

Meaning, the question...in this particular posting, was one that valued the opinions of people helping him save money.

Speaking of how successful you are, and how multi-million dollar homes are on the rise...and how the past 2 years have been great for you and your family are unneccesary...especially in this economy.

I don't particurlarly care about your huge bonuses and pay increases...nor how cheap it is to raise a kid (I have three) and your lowered mortgage payment that "put more cash into your budget. Who cares?

Good on you. We're proud. You should pat yourself on the back. But, maybe..just maybe...you can post that in a thread titled "My successes the past 2 years" and stick to the topic on hand?

And please, I beg you...stop assuming. Your comments are riddled with them...

I've been a member for 3+ years, owned a few audis and contribute where needed. Your post rubbed me wrong, and I called you on it.

Oh, and I visit this forum because the information is typically useful. An abundance of smart people make it worthwhile. I'm interested in the value of the comments...

[Hamann]

The deals right now are on B7 S4s, and B7 RS4s.

The funny thing is, if you can find an 08 RS4 on a dealer lot, can typically get about $12k off of MSRP..but, the used ones have held pretty firm. Used prices on low-mileage RS4's have remained virtually unchanged the past 9 months.

Speaking of invoice on the new S4. Reeves, in Tampa, got one in (late August). I scheduled a test drive 2 days later...and, was gone. I asked one of the sales reps and he said the guy paid full MSRP.

It's a pretty hot car...consider yourself doing good if you "split" the difference between Invoice and MSRP. [up]

[vinlopic]

Where did you order? Bell Audi? I only see two sold orders in the country with your specs, and niether have alcantara... Are you sure you're actually going to get your car in 3 months, or is your order just going to sit in line until they get allocation?


Fyi; there are a couple that are available next month exactly as you have equipped.

Yes, Bell Audi.

I have received a commission number from my salesman.

Glad to know how many similiar cars are out there. Thanks for that info...and no I am not sure if I am going to get my car in 3 months (not sure where you pulled this number from) as anything could happen. Patience is a virtue...

[TheDonPulido]

saved 4G's on my special order. (52K) get it mid next month.

[jonmiles]

Yes, Bell Audi.

I have received a commission number from my salesman.

Glad to know how many similiar cars are out there. Thanks for that info...and no I am not sure if I am going to get my car in 3 months (not sure where you pulled this number from) as anything could happen. Patience is a virtue...


# 915497, Yea I see it.

The good news is that your car does have allocation, and should be built sometime next month... delivered Feb-March.

The bad news is that this car doesn't have alcantara, but instead has a $1000 up-charge for the silk nappa leather. I hope your salesperson was clear about this...

[jonmiles]

You're a typical used-car salesmen...

Can I borrow your comb?

Actually I'm not. I'm in the top 25 new audi salespeople in the country.

[trigoe]

If you want to keep as much money as you can, then you don't buy ANY Audi, much less an S4. This is a LUXURY car. Do you buy a Rolex to keep time? Fuck no. And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point. Enthusiasts have an appreciation for the craftsmanship and the engineering, which is why such excellent products can be sold by these companies viably in the first place: otherwise the market would be flooded by products whose only goal was to provide the function (transportation) at its lowest price possible.

I personally, am proud to have worked hard enough to earn the privelage of supporting such an incredible organization by purchasing its product. I consider it my way of saying "thank you Audi for building such a badass car"


And with regard to your supposed $498 lease; I have a strong hunch that you're a liar, just like 30% of the morons who contact me on a daily basis asking me to beat the deal they got from thier other dealer. Since I can't prove this though, what I CAN say is that whatever bank you found to lease the car to you at that price will most definately take a HUGE bath when you turn the car in. If they aren't out of business allready, they most definately have changed thier policies. You may have gotten a good "deal" that time, but sorry bub, once that lease is over I see a shiny new honda accord in your future!



whoooooo!!!!! Wow! Very impressive! And while some will take umbrage at the tone, I absolutely agree. Man, I'm coming from a friggin' civic (did what i had to do when the twins were born...) so I can relate to what Dan is saying. I'm salivating for my new wheels and this isn't about scoring the lowest possible deal. I just want a FAIR deal. I think most of us do. After awhile of comparing dealers I saw that I was really chasing my own tail over a couple of hundred dollars. Enough...

[Brunotheboxer]

If you want to keep as much money as you can, then you don't buy ANY Audi, much less an S4. This is a LUXURY car. Do you buy a Rolex to keep time? Fuck no. And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point. Enthusiasts have an appreciation for the craftsmanship and the engineering, which is why such excellent products can be sold by these companies viably in the first place: otherwise the market would be flooded by products whose only goal was to provide the function (transportation) at its lowest price possible.

I personally, am proud to have worked hard enough to earn the privelage of supporting such an incredible organization by purchasing its product. I consider it my way of saying "thank you Audi for building such a badass car"


And with regard to your supposed $498 lease; I have a strong hunch that you're a liar, just like 30% of the morons who contact me on a daily basis asking me to beat the deal they got from thier other dealer. Since I can't prove this though, what I CAN say is that whatever bank you found to lease the car to you at that price will most definately take a HUGE bath when you turn the car in. If they aren't out of business allready, they most definately have changed thier policies. You may have gotten a good "deal" that time, but sorry bub, once that lease is over I see a shiny new honda accord in your future!

What else does a Rolex do but keep time? http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5660/turk1.gif

[NWS4Guy]

Wow, and I get my ass jumped for just stating I can afford the car, and that not *everyone* is having a horrible time in this economy?


Jeez....

[trigoe]

What else does a Rolex do but keep time?

What's the tag line on the Patek Phillipe commercial? "I'm a Patek Phillipe, and I say a lot about you".

There you go...

All Luxury ANYTHING is about the performance, craftsmanship and caché.

[A6.S-line]

And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point

If you think you're going to waltz into these threads and convince people to pay nothing but MSRP, you've clearly missed the boat. After all, anything less than MSRP would be bargin'ing [sic], right? And then of course you'd stick a $500 doc fee (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320231) on said customer as well, right?

Pray tell, what is your purpose in these forums (other than to implicitly solicit sales via your signature - arguably a violation of AZ's Terms of Use)? Have you ever provided a single piece of useful information to the AZ community?

[Brunotheboxer]

What's the tag line on the Patek Phillipe commercial? "I'm a Patek Phillipe, and I say a lot about you".

There you go...

All Luxury ANYTHING is about the performance, craftsmanship and caché.

LOL.

“You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation.”

I sill wouldn't pay sticker for a Patek or for a Rolex for that matter.

[sworksone]

If you want to keep as much money as you can, then you don't buy ANY Audi, much less an S4. This is a LUXURY car. Do you buy a Rolex to keep time? Fuck no. And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point.

I personally, am proud to have worked hard enough to earn the privelage of supporting such an incredible organization by purchasing its product. I consider it my way of saying "thank you Audi for building such a badass car"


What are you smoking?

[L0U]

like i tell the guys at work, if there is a question as to what time it really is, we go by my rolex...why?, because it keeps good time?...no, because it is my classroom. (and i nicknamed the beast "the atomic clock")

[HobbesA5]

Your point of view is really boring. 9 out of 10 morons you pass on the street will probably agree that salespeople are all greedy scum of the earth, then go deposit thier money in Bank of America and vote for whatever fucktard politician that subscribes to thier side of the "gay marriage" debate who will inevitably fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon.
Is this really the type of response you feel reflects well upon you as a representative of an Audi dealership? I understand you're miffed, but this is hardly a mature response.


Reality is, that the modern automobile is one of the most technologically advanced products on the market, and it is sold at the lowest profit margin. Dealerships all over the country are fighting an uphill battle trying to stay in business, and I'm sick to death of the idea that one is getting "ripped off" if they pay the same as everyone else getting propegated any further.
It's called free market competition. Dealers have adjusted their profit margins to the threshold of what they feel will attract buyers and still provide them a reasonable profit. It is irrelevant how the profit margin of cars compares to other products. Don't get mad at the consumer for the current state of the auto sales industry. They are working with the existing system. If they bargain too hard, you don't have to sell them a car.

[foodplz]

Your point of view is really boring. 9 out of 10 morons you pass on the street will probably agree that salespeople are all greedy scum of the earth, then go deposit thier money in Bank of America and vote for whatever fucktard politician that subscribes to thier side of the "gay marriage" debate who will inevitably fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon.

Reality is, that the modern automobile is one of the most technologically advanced products on the market, and it is sold at the lowest profit margin. Dealerships all over the country are fighting an uphill battle trying to stay in business, and I'm sick to death of the idea that one is getting "ripped off" if they pay the same as everyone else getting propegated any further.

As I have followed this thread from the beginning and decided that the thread was originally based on buyers trying to gather information on what the market supports for this kind of car--not what a dealer/manufacturer suggests that they want to sell the car for. So, while I do understand that you may be upset by people coming into the dealership only to give you lowball offers, that is the nature of your business.Your business is one where people negotiate. If you want to sell stuff at retail, you are free to go work for a grocery store.

What is more disconcerting is your attitude. Considering that you are representing a dealer by sticking "Don Rosen Imports" in your signature, its pretty unprofessional for you to go on these tirades.

Especially given that on the Don Rosen Imports Website states this on their webpage about their perspective on new car sales:

"Observe their attitude.
After you’ve seen the showroom, visit the service area. Watch how they treat customers. Do they listen? Are they sympathetic to the customer’s needs? Are they more concerned with their time or with the customer’s time?"

I'd hardly think that that trying to shove MSRP down your customer's throat or telling them to go buy a civic is considered as being "sympathetic" to a person's needs. I, as a customer, would not want to deal with somebody who thought anybody the best deal is determined by the seller's valuation of their product.

[A6.S-line]

Actually yes, just the other day: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321755


Really, that's the best example you could come up with?



Your point of view is really boring. 9 out of 10 morons you pass on the street will probably agree that salespeople are all greedy scum of the earth, then go deposit thier money in Bank of America and vote for whatever fucktard politician that subscribes to thier side of the "gay marriage" debate who will inevitably fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon.


.....and this has what to do with the subject at hand?



Reality is, that the modern automobile is one of the most technologically advanced products on the market, and it is sold at the lowest profit margin. Dealerships all over the country are fighting an uphill battle trying to stay in business, and I'm sick to death of the idea that one is getting "ripped off" if they pay the same as everyone else getting propegated any further.

I feel sorry for you. It's quite apparent you're unhappy and, worse, bitter in this profession as an Audi salesman. I wish you luck in your next career.

[trigoe]

LOL.

“You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation.”

I sill wouldn't pay sticker for a Patek or for a Rolex for that matter.

Nor do I think you should. I think you should get a fair deal.

[i_eat_staples]

If you want to keep as much money as you can, then you don't buy ANY Audi, much less an S4. This is a LUXURY car. Do you buy a Rolex to keep time? Fuck no. And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point. Enthusiasts have an appreciation for the craftsmanship and the engineering, which is why such excellent products can be sold by these companies viably in the first place: otherwise the market would be flooded by products whose only goal was to provide the function (transportation) at its lowest price possible.

I personally, am proud to have worked hard enough to earn the privelage of supporting such an incredible organization by purchasing its product. I consider it my way of saying "thank you Audi for building such a badass car"


You're confusing a buyers willingness to pay for quality components and craftsmanship with "perceived" brand value. You'll find most people who are buying these cars are more than willing to pay for a quality product, but that isnt a blank check to pay for brand value. The way we say "thank you audi" is by buying an s4 instead of a 335i, is350, whatever, this attempt to establish some sort of parental relationship between a consumer and the product they buy is salesmen bullshit. The power lies in the hands of consumers(re: us, not audi); either you build a wonderful product and i vote with my dollar, or you dont.

The trick with luxury brands has always been to reel in those willing to spend absurd amounts of money to be the first to have something. Now with that said, if its worth it to those people, then more power to them. But to most people it isnt, which is why AMG, M, RS models absolutely tank in value in the years following their release, because by-and-large the majority of consumers arent willing to watch that kind of wealth evaporate so quickly.

Cars can be one of the easiest paths to personal wealth destruction if you get in over your head, its not about being a cheap ass its about being smart with your money. But it is what it is

[Hamann]

Your point of view is really boring. 9 out of 10 morons you pass on the street will probably agree that salespeople are all greedy scum of the earth, then go deposit thier money in Bank of America and vote for whatever fucktard politician that subscribes to thier side of the "gay marriage" debate who will inevitably fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon.

Reality is, that the modern automobile is one of the most technologically advanced products on the market, and it is sold at the lowest profit margin. Dealerships all over the country are fighting an uphill battle trying to stay in business, and I'm sick to death of the idea that one is getting "ripped off" if they pay the same as everyone else getting propegated any further.

You're an idiot. Like, seriously...an actual idiot. You have no place on this forum.

The automotive sales business model is based on confrontation and wearing down the consumer, so I am not very sympathetic to the poor salesmen having an educated consumer to deal with. Poor baby. Get over it. You came onto the most comprehensive Audi enthusiest site and try to convince everyone that we're "cheap asses." And, that people who can afford nice products such as a Rolex obviously don't care about cost. Here's a hint...people got into those positions by being smart...not by listening to your used cars salesmen advice.

Seriously?

You're comical, although it's not very funny because you don't even know how ridiculous you are. It's like kicking a baby...it's just not fun...because it isn't hard.

You actually believe the shit you say. My "Can I borrow your comb" comment comes from the vision I get from you...a greasy slicked-back salesman who is pissed because you can't make an obscene profit on every car.

You are simply feeling the affects of years of dealers misling others...being dishonest and shady, with a complete disrespect for its customers.

If everyone came into your dealer and bought a car at 3% over ACTUAL cost, we'd all be happy. The problem is, when you get manufacturer kickbacks, and incentives, you jump up and down because you feel you should hide this fact...and make more of a profit that is reasonable. What do you get in return? You get customers who are well informed...and that really upsets my boy Jon "the clown" Miles from Audi. You should look into smoked turkey legs and cotton candy...maybe practice guessing the heights and weights of people around you...

[rolleyes]

[S-Fore]

Why, I actually feel like we know each other rather well, I do own a stainless Rolex and it is primarily useD for keeping me updated with the time of each day. Date too.
US Bank, and yes, they will be backwards about $5k in this car at the lease termination. Bad on their part. I have already started to negotiate the buyout from them, they notified me that that cannot do so until it is a minimum of 180 days from the lease maturation. As for your comments, I'll stick to the original theme here, which is Audi Leasing. You on the other hand, should pipe down a bit, you are an Audi "professional" and "Brand Specialist" oh and "top 25 salseperson (in what the eastern PA region?)" and might not be viewed in such positive light by your employers or it's parent company talking the way you are to Audi brand loyalist's. In a public forum, on the world wide web.
Actually when my lease is up, I may get another S4 or a C63amg haven't decided yet. There is nothing wrong with Hondas, I owned one when I was young. You are right though, Audi's are great cars, my favorite, but overpriced.

If you want to keep as much money as you can, then you don't buy ANY Audi, much less an S4. This is a LUXURY car. Do you buy a Rolex to keep time? Fuck no. And if you ARE the type of cheap-ass who tries to bargin on these types of products, you are CLEARLY missing the whole point. Enthusiasts have an appreciation for the craftsmanship and the engineering, which is why such excellent products can be sold by these companies viably in the first place: otherwise the market would be flooded by products whose only goal was to provide the function (transportation) at its lowest price possible.

I personally, am proud to have worked hard enough to earn the privelage of supporting such an incredible organization by purchasing its product. I consider it my way of saying "thank you Audi for building such a badass car"


And with regard to your supposed $498 lease; I have a strong hunch that you're a liar, just like 30% of the morons who contact me on a daily basis asking me to beat the deal they got from thier other dealer. Since I can't prove this though, what I CAN say is that whatever bank you found to lease the car to you at that price will most definately take a HUGE bath when you turn the car in. If they aren't out of business allready, they most definately have changed thier policies. You may have gotten a good "deal" that time, but sorry bub, once that lease is over I see a shiny new honda accord in your future!

[jonmiles]

You're an idiot. Like, seriously...an actual idiot. You have no place on this forum.

[rolleyes]

I didn't bother reading anything else in your post after this brillance.




It's called free market competition. Dealers have adjusted their profit margins to the threshold of what they feel will attract buyers and still provide them a reasonable profit. It is irrelevant how the profit margin of cars compares to other products. Don't get mad at the consumer for the current state of the auto sales industry. They are working with the existing system. If they bargain too hard, you don't have to sell them a car.



I'm aware, and you're missing my point. What frustrates me is the dialogue that goes back and forth about getting a great "deal". It's rediculous. I can't tell you how many times I've shown a truecar report to a customer, had them look me in the eye, and ask for a price thousands less than the report says anyone else has paid. For whatever reason, (and only in our country, I might add) our consumers have a hard-on for barganing on cars. Name one other industry that still works on the barter system in our country?

And with regard to the "mature" response; I am not nor do I claim to be a representative of any organization. They employ me because I produce results, plain and simple. One of the nice things about the career path that I chose is that I can run my mouth without consequences. I thought a little humour would help the discussion.

[foodplz]

Name one other industry that still works on the barter system in our country?
.

Jewelry, real-estate, professional sports contracts, corporate mergers/acquisitions.... just to name a few. Most transactions involving any sort of substantial money involves negotiations (what you call the barter system). ANY contract works on the basis of repeated offers and counter offers until there is an agreed value. Most smart businessmen don't walk up to somebody with a sheet of paper and say... sign it or leave. Thats one way to tank your business pretty fast.

Again... unless you are selling a toothbrush. In which case, most people will pay whatever is on the sticker. Even then, thats only if they NEED your toothbrush and there are no alternatives.




And with regard to the "mature" response; I am not nor do I claim to be a representative of any organization. They employ me because I produce results, plain and simple. One of the nice things about the career path that I chose is that I can run my mouth without consequences. I thought a little humour would help the discussion.

When you stick your employer's name in your signature... you automatically associate what you say with the organization. If you want to run your mouth, I think most organizations would prefer for you not to stick their name anywhere on it. Using derogatory over-generalizations and calling names is only "humour" in middle school. Thats why people are questioning the maturity of your response.

[NWS4Guy]

...And with regard to the "mature" response; I am not nor do I claim to be a representative of any organization. They employ me because I produce results, plain and simple. One of the nice things about the career path that I chose is that I can run my mouth without consequences. I thought a little humour would help the discussion.

I hate to break it to you, but when you advertise where you work and what you do - especially on a public forum surrounding your profession - you are by defacto representative whether you want to be or not.

Just think how much farther you might go if you chose not to run your mouth and offend people?

[Hamann]

Jewelry, real-estate, professional sports contracts, corporate mergers/acquisitions.....

You lost him after "Jewelry"

He didn't read it, because he can't comprehend it.

I smell cotton candy and lemonade...

[A6.S-line]

I hate to break it to you, but when you advertise where you work and what you do - especially on a public forum surrounding your profession - you are by defacto representative whether you want to be or not.

Just think how much farther you might go if you chose not to run your mouth and offend people?

I feel bad for this Don Rosen dealership. Their brand has been trashed by this fool

[AofC_RR]

So I'll chime in on this. A deal is all about feeling like you got a deal. It's not a matter of price it's a matter of satisfaction.
Profit should always be paid. Whether it is fees or the amount over invoice. Failure to do so should mean you lose your right to complain about all things dealer related like lack of loaners, etc. No one works for free, no business can stay open selling everything for cost.
To my fellow ABS. You're doing us all a great disservice saying some of the things your saying. Keep it to yourself and keep it positive here. It's about the cars.
I do agree deal threads should be banned as they stir up too much crap. Whether it be making people feel bad about what they paid or hurting the feelings of those who sell the product because people say we don't deserve to get paid more than $150 for what can be months worth of work and continued service. Just a hand shake, a thank you, and a smile.

[riegeraudi]

I didn't bother reading anything else in your post after this brillance.






I'm aware, and you're missing my point. What frustrates me is the dialogue that goes back and forth about getting a great "deal". It's rediculous. I can't tell you how many times I've shown a truecar report to a customer, had them look me in the eye, and ask for a price thousands less than the report says anyone else has paid. For whatever reason, (and only in our country, I might add) our consumers have a hard-on for barganing on cars. Name one other industry that still works on the barter system in our country?

And with regard to the "mature" response; I am not nor do I claim to be a representative of any organization. They employ me because I produce results, plain and simple. One of the nice things about the career path that I chose is that I can run my mouth without consequences. I thought a little humour would help the discussion.

Well Jon the bartering that goes on in dealerships are really caused by the dealerships not the customers. Dealerships have chosen this route because they aren't willing to go with standardized pricing. If all the dealerships chose standardized pricing than customers wouldn't be able to barter. Dealerships have chosen to backstab each other rather than go with the standardized pricing and consumers have the right to play along with the game if the dealerships are the ones who promote it. I assume that the dealerships have not gone to standardized pricing is because with bartering you have more control of inventory or margins. In both these cases you are actually asking the customer to play the game.

[Infra]

Well Jon the bartering that goes on in dealerships are really caused by the dealerships not the customers. Dealerships have chosen this route because they aren't willing to go with standardized pricing. If all the dealerships chose standardized pricing than customers wouldn't be able to barter. Dealerships have chosen to backstab each other rather than go with the standardized pricing and consumers have the right to play along with the game if the dealerships are the ones who promote it. I assume that the dealerships have not gone to standardized pricing is because with bartering you have more control of inventory or margins. In both these cases you are actually asking the customer to play the game.

Carmax seems to be doing well with their no-haggle price. (ie, national chain which sets standardized prices for cars, so no matter where you go, you will pay the same for the same car, with very reasonable transfer fees).

[NWS4Guy]

Well Jon the bartering that goes on in dealerships are really caused by the dealerships not the customers. Dealerships have chosen this route because they aren't willing to go with standardized pricing. If all the dealerships chose standardized pricing than customers wouldn't be able to barter. Dealerships have chosen to backstab each other rather than go with the standardized pricing and consumers have the right to play along with the game if the dealerships are the ones who promote it. I assume that the dealerships have not gone to standardized pricing is because with bartering you have more control of inventory or margins. In both these cases you are actually asking the customer to play the game.

Saturn did this and never had any troubles (aside from being a GM subsidiary)

[SKIZNITS]

So I'll chime in on this. A deal is all about feeling like you got a deal. It's not a matter of price it's a matter of satisfaction.
Profit should always be paid. Whether it is fees or the amount over invoice. Failure to do so should mean you lose your right to complain about all things dealer related like lack of loaners, etc. No one works for free, no business can stay open selling everything for cost.
To my fellow ABS. You're doing us all a great disservice saying some of the things your saying. Keep it to yourself and keep it positive here. It's about the cars.
I do agree deal threads should be banned as they stir up too much crap. Whether it be making people feel bad about what they paid or hurting the feelings of those who sell the product because people say we don't deserve to get paid more than $150 for what can be months worth of work and continued service. Just a hand shake, a thank you, and a smile.

As a potential new customer I feel that this type of thread should definitely NOT be banned....for reasons too numerous to count.

I havent purchased a vehicle in several years and I have never leased but this thread has significantly altered my mindset in how I am going to approach my interaction with the dealership. Unfortunately, you have to go into the deal with the mindset that they will try and rip you off(even tho they may not). Sorry its just the way it is and unfortunately always will be...

I find this thread: markedly informative and entertaining and Im sure many others do also...for whatever reason.

[fc3]

I find this thread: markedly informative and entertaining and Im sure many others do also...for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

Because noone can look away from a train wreck?[o_o]

[SKIZNITS]

Alright alright...I could definitely do with a more humane/civilised/mature approach...overall.

[A6.S-line]

I do agree deal threads should be banned as they stir up too much crap.

Agree with whom? With the fella who has spectacularly kamikazi'd his prospects of ever making a sale on AZ? With any other dealers/salespeople who might be lurking?

You were making some good points until this clanger. I'm appalled you would advocate something so transparently self-serving. The asymmetry of information has always been one of the dealers' best weapons. Shame on you for coming to an Audi enthusiast site, of all places, and trying to put a gag order on consumers exchanging information for mutual benefit.

Censorship [down][down][down]

[AofC_RR]

Agree with whom? With the fella who has spectacularly kamikazi'd his prospects of ever making a sale on AZ? With any other dealers/salespeople who might be lurking?

You were making some good points until this clanger. I'm appalled you would advocate something so transparently self-serving. The asymmetry of information has always been one of the dealers' best weapons. Shame on you for coming to an Audi enthusiast site, of all places, and trying to put a gag order on consumers exchanging information for mutual benefit.

Censorship [down][down][down]

They refer to me as Ralph Nader's son at my store. I'm pro consumer, I believe in a fair deal. I've helped more people on here and Audiworld buy an Audi from someone else than most will own in a lifetime. So yeah I want to censor things because people having pointless discussions about information that's available elsewhere serves my interests alone, are you serious???? I help people buy Audis from other people and get nothing in return so how would this be self serving?
However these threads do nothing for anyone. Said it before say it again. Has anyone learned anything about buying a car by reading this?
Discussions on fees, what dealership to visit, etc make sense.
What you should pay? Its no secret. Very easily answered look at Edmunds.com, that simple. Tells you what the market is in your area, tells you almost what the invoice is. Hell if the moderators will do it I'll make a post that will tell you EXACTLY how to buy a car they can sticky it to every forum and no one will ever need to discuss it again.
If the information is available elsewhere why waste everyone's time here? And it's certainly not censorship to ask that others' time not be wasted because you fail at the internet and have not learned one of life's great truths "you'll get nothing if you don't ask for it."
SO to recap talk about what ever you want except for what do I pay, what should I pay, this was my lease deal from months ago, and this is how much I'm paying. That = fail. Because people lie about what they pay for their car as the old saying goes people will alway brag about how much they paid for their house and lie about how little they paid for their car.

All pricing threads should be redirected to Edmunds.com. As they not only have pricing info but...zomg! Forums on how to buy a car. All leasing threads should be redirected to a regional forum because tax and fees vary by area and should be deleted every 60 days as programs have changed and those prices are no longer accurate. As well Audi's new leasing programs are so confusing I've yet to see a worthwhile discussion of anything that has to do with payment. Should be a sticky on how to lease, again consult Edmunds.com. Fees are valid threads and are worthy of discussion. Audi Care, worthy of discussion.

Enough said, lock the thread

[L0U]

I thought all the posters were treating this thread as comic relief. I agree there is nothing to gain by reading it...except for a chuckle.

[AofC_RR]

I thought all the posters were treating this thread as comic relief. I agree there is nothing to gain by reading it...except for a chuckle.

Thanks for actually getting it. Hey off topic, your S4 is SWEET!!! I'm really digging this body S4 in white. It's always been an under appreciated color on the S's.

[tgrundke]

Bingo. That's the game, alright. There are a few people out there for which money is no object, and for those who can afford it that's great.



The trick with luxury brands has always been to reel in those willing to spend absurd amounts of money to be the first to have something. Now with that said, if its worth it to those people, then more power to them. But to most people it isnt, which is why AMG, M, RS models absolutely tank in value in the years following their release, because by-and-large the majority of consumers arent willing to watch that kind of wealth evaporate so quickly.

Cars can be one of the easiest paths to personal wealth destruction if you get in over your head, its not about being a cheap ass its about being smart with your money. But it is what it is

[akaDK]

Actually I'm not. I'm in the top 25 new audi salespeople in the country.


I bet you are also in the top 5 new audi jackass salespeople in the world. [down]

[jonmiles]

I bet you are also in the top 5 new audi jackass salespeople in the world. [down]

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

[JTurbo]

Saturn failed because their product was boring, and their dealers were way to far away for most people. Franchise agreements made sure that any given area had only 1 or so Saturn dealers. Problem was, who the F*** wanted to drive 40 miles to find the nearest boring ass car Saturn dealer when there were 4 Honda and Toyota dealers nearby that would all haggle? Saturn is certainly no Porsche or Audi, were people WILL drive the distance due to the excitement of the cars. Heck, I bet Porsche dealers, and Porsche as a whole, would do just fine with no haggle pricing. A Porsche buyer knows what he wants, and looks for it, rather than settling for something else thats different, because its cheaper. This is how I felt when buying my S4. I could give a rats ass if I saved 1k from buying down the street from a different Audi dealer. I wanted an S4, wanted it the way I wanted it, and didnt care if it was MSRP, or $2k below MSRP.

[riegeraudi]

I've only been in this industry for a few years now, but everytime this topic comes up internally, Saturn is the number one example of why fixed pricing won't work. Supposedly (according to area managers) this strategy really hurt Saturn, and they eventually had to go to a traditional method.

Well if standardized pricing won't work than the only thing left is haggling. So if you don't like standardized pricing and haggling what do you have left? Can you explain to me what you are asking for then?

[A6.S-line]

As other people have said, there were a lot bigger reasons for Saturn failing than standardized pricing. Actually, when Saturn first debuted, with a somewhat 'fresh' product lineup (or at least benefited from some press buzz) and had a marketing budget, its standardized pricing strategy helped its dealer network achieve some of their best customer satisfaction ratings.

[L0U]

It was a special kind of customer, more than a special kind of car.

[sakimano]

I didn't bother reading anything else in your post after this brillance.



that's some irony right there. Epic.

Jonboy...what say you and I get on a conference call with Don Rosen and Johan? I have a feeling they'll each remind you that you're not supposed to fuck around and post on internet forums. In fact, I think when you were hired, you signed an agreement to that effect...it was called 'Protecting the Brand'. Most folks who fail to heed that warning get a smack in the face from their manager. New salespeople who DESTROY the dealer and corporation's reputation by attacking customers and spewing profanity, get fired. Now...nobody would be stupid enough to do all of that...with their employer's name in their signature...and their full name as their username...would they? [down]

The bell tolls for thee, JonMiles.

[Hamann]

Saturn failed because their product was boring, and their dealers were way to far away for most people. Franchise agreements made sure that any given area had only 1 or so Saturn dealers. Problem was, who the F*** wanted to drive 40 miles to find the nearest boring ass car Saturn dealer when there were 4 Honda and Toyota dealers nearby that would all haggle? Saturn is certainly no Porsche or Audi, were people WILL drive the distance due to the excitement of the cars. Heck, I bet Porsche dealers, and Porsche as a whole, would do just fine with no haggle pricing. A Porsche buyer knows what he wants, and looks for it, rather than settling for something else thats different, because its cheaper. This is how I felt when buying my S4. I could give a rats ass if I saved 1k from buying down the street from a different Audi dealer. I wanted an S4, wanted it the way I wanted it, and didnt care if it was MSRP, or $2k below MSRP.

Just a side note...nothing to do with this thread. GM failed, in large part, because of oil prices, and taking too long to provided quality cars with good gas mileage. The UAW also was a major cause of their problems, with workers making 2 to 3 times that of their japanese counterparts. Saturn, in fact, was one of the first companies that others wanted to buy...in large part because of their fuel economy and affordability. Saturn didn't "fail" as much as GM failed...

Also, Saturn had wiggle room on all pre-owned cars and would negotiate trade-ins. Their prices were good, and it made the sales people a lot easier to deal with...

[Hamann]

that's some irony right there. Epic.

Jonboy...what say you and I get on a conference call with Don Rosen and Johan? I have a feeling they'll each remind you that you're not supposed to fuck around and post on internet forums. In fact, I think when you were hired, you signed an agreement to that effect...it was called 'Protecting the Brand'. Most folks who fail to heed that warning get a smack in the face from their manager. New salespeople who DESTROY the dealer and corporation's reputation by attacking customers and spewing profanity, get fired. Now...nobody would be stupid enough to do all of that...with their employer's name in their signature...and their full name as their username...would they? [down]

The bell tolls for thee, JonMiles.

That's great. [up]

[SKIZNITS]

that's some irony right there. Epic.

Jonboy...what say you and I get on a conference call with Don Rosen and Johan? I have a feeling they'll each remind you that you're not supposed to fuck around and post on internet forums. In fact, I think when you were hired, you signed an agreement to that effect...it was called 'Protecting the Brand'. Most folks who fail to heed that warning get a smack in the face from their manager. New salespeople who DESTROY the dealer and corporation's reputation by attacking customers and spewing profanity, get fired. Now...nobody would be stupid enough to do all of that...with their employer's name in their signature...and their full name as their username...would they? [down]

The bell tolls for thee, JonMiles.

Aww man, be cool to Jonboy...he's only been in the biz for a whopping 2 YEARS---dont want to get him fired. Wonder what he was doing 2 years ago anyway...can only imagine...

[JRMSLINEA4]

Saturn failed because their product was boring, and their dealers were way to far away for most people. Franchise agreements made sure that any given area had only 1 or so Saturn dealers. Problem was, who the F*** wanted to drive 40 miles to find the nearest boring ass car Saturn dealer when there were 4 Honda and Toyota dealers nearby that would all haggle? Saturn is certainly no Porsche or Audi, were people WILL drive the distance due to the excitement of the cars. Heck, I bet Porsche dealers, and Porsche as a whole, would do just fine with no haggle pricing. A Porsche buyer knows what he wants, and looks for it, rather than settling for something else thats different, because its cheaper. This is how I felt when buying my S4. I could give a rats ass if I saved 1k from buying down the street from a different Audi dealer. I wanted an S4, wanted it the way I wanted it, and didnt care if it was MSRP, or $2k below MSRP.
Well said.

[jonnyz1245]

Actually yes, just the other day: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321755

Your point of view is really boring. 9 out of 10 morons you pass on the street will probably agree that salespeople are all greedy scum of the earth, then go deposit thier money in Bank of America and vote for whatever fucktard politician that subscribes to thier side of the "gay marriage" debate who will inevitably fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon.

Reality is, that the modern automobile is one of the most technologically advanced products on the market, and it is sold at the lowest profit margin. Dealerships all over the country are fighting an uphill battle trying to stay in business, and I'm sick to death of the idea that one is getting "ripped off" if they pay the same as everyone else getting propegated any further.

WOW!! My first post here. I have been lurking for several months getting info on my next purchase which is hopefully an S4.

As a small business owner who also represents a brand I am shocked that this "Jonmiles" is actually an employee of a company that represents a brand such as Audi. Who ever hired this moron should recheck their interview skills because something slipped through the cracks. He should be fired if for nothing less than using "fucktards and fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon." What a complete and absolute idiot!!

If I found an employee of mine on a public message board... using not only my company name but also the brand we represent and he was displaying that language he would be shown the door w/in 5 minutes. if he asked why he wold be told to go (back) to college or at least take a course on how to behave in public!!

As far as his rant on how we should be privileged to by an Audi. Bullshit! Any product is only worth what buyer and seller agree the product is worth at any given time. As an example, fine watches were being used. I happen to collect watches and right now I have 3 Rolexes(all bought new) 2 Panerais, 1 AP, 1 IWC, and a Omega. I have NEVER paid retail on any of these and never will. Why, because I don't think they are worth full boat. Now, if a dealer doesn't want to sell one to me for what we think is a fair price, no hard feeling I shake their hand, wish them a nice day, and go find one who will. and there is ALWAYS one who will. Audi, while a very nice car, is not a Ferrari and as such does not command take it or leave pricing. I got 5% UNDER invoice on my Allorad after calling only 3 dealers who had a combined total of 16 on their lots. Today I am friends with the salesman who sold me the car and hopefully will be buying my S4 from him in the sping. If he says full MSRP or nothing, I will take my business elsewhere. Something tells me he won't.

Anyways, bottom line is, this "jonmiles", who is on a public board representing both a billion dollar brand and a dealer for the brand is acting like an ass, using inappropriate language, and behaving like a stereo typical used car salesman...and they wonder where their rep come from :-)

What an idiot.

Tomorrow I will email a copy of this thread to my contact at my dealer, AOA, and Don Rosen. This guy should not be representing the cars we love with his rants, BS, and foul language. I suggest you all do the same. The sooner we rid the world of trash, the sooner we have a better world to live in!

[sworksone]

WOW!! My first post here. I have been lurking for several months getting info on my next purchase which is hopefully an S4.

As a small business owner who also represents a brand I am shocked that this "Jonmiles" is actually an employee of a company that represents a brand such as Audi. Who ever hired this moron should recheck their interview skills because something slipped through the cracks. He should be fired if for nothing less than using "fucktards and fuck them harder than any homo honeymoon." What a complete and absolute idiot!!

If I found an employee of mine on a public message board... using not only my company name but also the brand we represent and he was displaying that language he would be shown the door w/in 5 minutes. if he asked why he wold be told to go (back) to college or at least take a course on how to behave in public!!

As far as his rant on how we should be privileged to by an Audi. Bullshit! Any product is only worth what buyer and seller agree the product is worth at any given time. As an example, fine watches were being used. I happen to collect watches and right now I have 3 Rolexes(all bought new) 2 Panerais, 1 AP, 1 IWC, and a Omega. I have NEVER paid retail on any of these and never will. Why, because I don't think they are worth full boat. Now, if a dealer doesn't want to sell one to me for what we think is a fair price, no hard feeling I shake their hand, wish them a nice day, and go find one who will. and there is ALWAYS one who will. Audi, while a very nice car, is not a Ferrari and as such does not command take it or leave pricing. I got 5% UNDER invoice on my Allorad after calling only 3 dealers who had a combined total of 16 on their lots. Today I am friends with the salesman who sold me the car and hopefully will be buying my S4 from him in the sping. If he says full MSRP or nothing, I will take my business elsewhere. Something tells me he won't.

Anyways, bottom line is, this "jonmiles", who is on a public board representing both a billion dollar brand and a dealer for the brand is acting like an ass, using inappropriate language, and behaving like a stereo typical used car salesman...and they wonder where their rep come from :-)

What an idiot.

Tomorrow I will email a copy of this thread to my contact at my dealer, AOA, and Don Rosen. This guy should not be representing the cars we love with his rants, BS, and foul language. I suggest you all do the same. The sooner we rid the world of trash, the sooner we have a better world to live in!

Fishy

[jonnyz1245]

What's fishy?

I came here to learn and instead see multiple posts by someone who is supposed to reprsent a brand. In those posts he calss potential customers 'fucktards"

If he wasn't stupid enough to have his company logo at the bottom of his posts, I wouldn't give two shits, but I happen to believe that if an employee has chosen to represent a company in public , a company that I happen to admire, that said employee should not go on public tirades. It can RUIN a company's rep faster than you can say "good morning"

Really!! Seriously!!

Nothing fishy here at all. Would you want someone like that working for you and spewing all sorts of garage in a public setting with your compnay logo attached?

Yeah, I am going to send the emails. why? cause its the right thing to do. I doubt anything will ever come of it. But as they say, ya can't bitch if you don't vote!

:-)

[sworksone]

What's fishy?

I came here to learn and instead see multiple posts by someone who is supposed to reprsent a brand. In those posts he calss potential customers 'fucktards"

If he wasn't stupid enough to have his company logo at the bottom of his posts, I wouldn't give two shits, but I happen to believe that if an employee has chosen to represent a company in public , a company that I happen to admire, that said employee should not go on public tirades. It can RUIN a company's rep faster than you can say "good morning"

Really!! Seriously!!

Nothing fishy here at all. Would you want someone like that working for you and spewing all sorts of garage in a public setting with your compnay logo attached?

Yeah, I am going to send the emails. why? cause its the right thing to do. I doubt anything will ever come of it. But as they say, ya can't bitch if you don't vote!

:-)

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. Something just smells fishy.

[jonnyz1245]

PM sent.

BTW I like the car you have on order. I test drove an Ibis when Sunset had one in stock and that white really pops. I am still several months away from getting serious about purchasing, but when I do I am thinking of a Deep sea blue or another quartz gray. My allroad is quartz and it really is a great color for around here. We get a few months of rain a year and the gray really hides the dirt :-)

[trigoe]

Jeez.... I hope they lock this stupid thread soon.

[L0U]

fishier will be if the account never posts another post once this thread goes away. If your not on the inside, your on the outside.

We could have this identical thread about darn near any car in the world that makes the short list for car of the year. You either know how to negotiate, or you don't. Lots will get this car for as good a deal as any other car, yet some will go away empty handed for some reason, unable to get a good deal.....it is not the cars fault.

Decide what you want to pay, and offer the deallership the deal firm. When you are ready to buy, you just offer the deal till someone accepts, or your deal is too aggressive if no one bites. Its not rocket science, but then again, after a few million dollars of your hard earned money gets spent, one can assume you got good at dealling eventually. Practice spending your money makes perfect.

[jonnyz1245]

I see your point. I have been a member of "other" message boards for a loooong time so i know how it works. I am actually a long time member of the AW and have posted there for years, albeit sporadically.

I didn't know I had to be on the "inside" to sign up and post when I see something stupid...which is what i did. I don't really care if you or anyone else thinks it's fishy!

I am actually shocked that no one else has mentioned reporting this guy. I have a friend that lost his job at a a major corporation after a 10 year flawless performance record for less than jon miles. My friends crime? using corporate email and saying something way less inappropriate than this idiot.

Jeez!

[sworksone]

I see your point. I have been a member of "other" message boards for a loooong time so i know how it works. I am actually a long time member of the AW and have posted there for years, albeit sporadically.

I didn't know I had to be on the "inside" to sign up and post when I see something stupid...which is what i did. I don't really care if you or anyone else thinks it's fishy!

I am actually shocked that no one else has mentioned reporting this guy. I have a friend that lost his job at a a major corporation after a 10 year flawless performance record for less than jon miles. My friends crime? using corporate email and saying something way less inappropriate than this idiot.

Jeez!

OK - I take it back. Something just didn't seem right, but the AW membership swung me.

[retrohasen]

Hi all,

I would like to ask everyone to please keep on topic and refrain from name calling etc. Please use PM if your comment is not on topic.

I think this could be a valuable thread and I really don't want to have to close it.

Thank you.

[TH85]

can you get the audi loyalty promotion applied to the purchase of an S4...on the website it says you can get up to 5k off the price...

[MMIXR8]

This thread got amusing in a hurry.

I paid about $5,000 under sticker for a fully loaded Ice Silver 2010 S4, ordered about three months ago and delivered last week. The only option I didn't take (as I recall) was the full leather -- I like the Alcantara.

Now, I've purchased two other Audi's from the same dealer -- a 2008 S6 (traded in on the R8) and a 2009 R8, so no doubt the dealer cut me some slack. (But I also saved a bunch on the R8.)

To answer the original question, I would never pay over sticker for a car. Ever. Even if I had money to burn.

Now, if I had a lot of money to burn, that's a different situation.

[quattro.it]

If you can find a dealer to sell you an S4 for <=$1k under MSRP you should take it. IF Audi eventually ramps up supply so the S4 is as common as a BMW 335 (which they say they want to do) then it will be easier to negotiate a lower price. Dealers and salespeople need to make a living too but the majority of consumers couldn't care less as long as they get their "best price".

[doctorheine]

the lowest i could talk them down on black s4 with everything was 3% under invoice... even though i do feel my local dealership deserves to give me a better deal for all the money i lost in the last car "which they f*&^ up on delivery" and ofcourse the great scheme known as tires for life which went bankrupt just recently....

[doctorheine]

This thread got amusing in a hurry.

I paid about $5,000 under sticker for a fully loaded Ice Silver 2010 S4, ordered about three months ago and delivered last week. The only option I didn't take (as I recall) was the full leather -- I like the Alcantara.

Now, I've purchased two other Audi's from the same dealer -- a 2008 S6 (traded in on the R8) and a 2009 R8, so no doubt the dealer cut me some slack. (But I also saved a bunch on the R8.)

To answer the original question, I would never pay over sticker for a car. Ever. Even if I had money to burn.

Now, if I had a lot of money to burn, that's a different situation.

correct me if im wrong.. sticker is msrp, then comes invoice then wholesale price right? is wholesale pretty much employee discount?

[NWS4Guy]

correct me if im wrong.. sticker is msrp, then comes invoice then wholesale price right? is wholesale pretty much employee discount?

Not sure about Audi employees, but my SA said that the Audi Supplier discount I get (6% off MSRP, which amounts to ~$500 over invoice for my S4) is the same exact deal they get as dealer employees.

[HJK]

i'll chime in since this thread is back from the dead.. i got mine for $300 over invoice using the AmEx/Zag program. Plus free audi care.

[jimlai322]

Are you from E90 Post? I just got mine for $450 over invoice. Picked one directly off the lot. I am located in Los Angeles.

[HJK]

haha yeah.. I'm guessing that you guessed from the post I made in 'Test drove an S4' thread?


Are you from E90 Post? I just got mine for $450 over invoice. Picked one directly off the lot. I am located in Los Angeles.

[ksmith016]

anyone has the actual audi invoice pricing guide for all 2010 models?

similar to this? http://www.ecodetuning.com/gallery/B8TSIAPR/reduced/OG2010AudiExclusive.pdf

[badgerbimmer]

I dropped following this thread after I started working on getting an order placed, $2K under MSRP which I think is fair.

After the thread resurrected yesterday I read it. I must thank you all for quite an entertaining read!

The Audi sales people who have been following this thread need to realize that the a generalization can be made that Audi customers are more intelligent and informed than a typical car buyer. If they weren't they likely could not afford to be buying an Audi. As such I would suggest treating your customer with respect and assume they are smarter than you, which 95% of the time will be correct. This is why you are selling and the customer is buying. By keeping this in mind you will be significantly more successful selling to this type of consumer. We don't want to be sold to, we know what we want, we know what a fair price is. Work with us with respect and we will do business with you, anything else - see ya later.

[i_eat_staples]

I dropped following this thread after I started working on getting an order placed, $2K under MSRP which I think is fair.

After the thread resurrected yesterday I read it. I must thank you all for quite an entertaining read!

The Audi sales people who have been following this thread need to realize that the a generalization can be made that Audi customers are more intelligent and informed than a typical car buyer. If they weren't they likely could not afford to be buying an Audi. As such I would suggest treating your customer with respect and assume they are smarter than you, which 95% of the time will be correct. This is why you are selling and the customer is buying. By keeping this in mind you will be significantly more successful selling to this type of consumer. We don't want to be sold to, we know what we want, we know what a fair price is. Work with us with respect and we will do business with you, anything else - see ya later.

well said

[Twowheelsgood]

I've been quoted invoice (with a trade in valued around the level predicted by Edmunds and similar to trade in offers from several dealers). This is for a Prestige/S-tronic/leather/Quartz Gray metallic/sport diff/driver assist. I'm about to pull the trigger on this, but first wanted to check on predicted future service costs like replacing the clutches. They offered an extended warranty for about $5K (!!!) - I'll just stick that amount in a mutual fund and see how reliable the car is...

[Twowheelsgood]

This thread has been silent for awhile, but to follow-up on my posting I put the deposit down for my S4 with Stratham Audi in NH and the final deal was for invoice price as I mentioned above. This offer was substantially better than the other extended Boston area dealerships I dealt with.

[Majateck]

I'm thinking about selling my A4 and buying an S4 through the same program I bought my A4 from. Military Sales. I got a price listing a 2010 Audi AX S4 Quattro Prestige 3.0T S tronic 7-Speed dual clutch XMSN 8K254Y with PRES (MCS Model - 254Y) for $59,505.00 fully loaded with everything and shows an MSRP of $63,572.00. I'm sure the price is non negotiable. anyone know if this is a good deal? I bought my A4 S-line 2.0T prestige from them for $41,901.00 so this seems a bit steep.

[Slave IV]

Not sure but I usually pay a few hundred to a few thousand under MSRP for new cars including tax and license and last time I think that worked out to a just under or right around invoice. The dealers have other ways to get income that don't always have to do with "profit" off a single car they sell over invoice from my understanding...

[Twowheelsgood]

Most of the shops I dealt with were offering the equivalent of about $1K below MSRP for the S4. I shopped around and ended going 1.5 hours north to get invoice and save several thousands. As for what's reasonable, I found the new car MSRP and invoice prices at Edmunds.com to be spot on, and their trade-in estimates were also very close to reality.

[Hamann]

I'm thinking about selling my A4 and buying an S4 through the same program I bought my A4 from. Military Sales. I got a price listing a 2010 Audi AX S4 Quattro Prestige 3.0T S tronic 7-Speed dual clutch XMSN 8K254Y with PRES (MCS Model - 254Y) for $59,505.00 fully loaded with everything and shows an MSRP of $63,572.00. I'm sure the price is non negotiable. anyone know if this is a good deal? I bought my A4 S-line 2.0T prestige from them for $41,901.00 so this seems a bit steep.

That's a VERY good price.

[L0U]

agreed. That price is very good for usa pricing. The Canadian deals have a bit deeper discounts, but audi is making more on the inflated msrp here.

Audi care and 300 bucks more would be the Canadian corporate deal that was in effect till end of December. As of now the deal has been reduced for 2010.

[Audi S4 NJ]

Is $51,900 a good price for a brand new....

2010 S4 Premium Plus with seven speed dual clutch
-Metallic Paint
-Sports Rear Diff package
-Navigation Plus Package
-Carbon Fiber Trim
-Bang & Olufsen Sound System
-Silk Nappa Leather

I only ask because my friend works as salesman and claims he's getting me a good deal, but I'm curious to get some feedback.

This is in New York by the way.

[Ray Khan]

Is $51,900 a good price for a brand new....

2010 S4 Premium Plus with seven speed dual clutch
-Metallic Paint
-Sports Rear Diff package
-Navigation Plus Package
-Carbon Fiber Trim
-Bang & Olufsen Sound System
-Silk Nappa Leather

I only ask because my friend works as salesman and claims he's getting me a good deal, but I'm curious to get some feedback.

This is in New York by the way.

Here is what Edmunds says. These prices include the destination fee

MSRP $54,550
Invoice $50,793
TMV for Somerset NJ $52,796

[CAA]

All bullshit and negotiating aside, I gave a bottom line price of what I was willing to pay for the car. If they couldn't meet it I respected that, and told them I would be back to buy the car in the future once supply and demand made friends with each other. They met my price based on the fact that I was willing to drive off with the car that moment.

As far as Audi Loyalty, I got $750 or something like that - certainly not $5k.

[Polskidebesciak]

^ yea? so how much you paid and what specs

[CAA]

^ yea? so how much you paid and what specs

one of my previous posts includes that info - shouldn't be hard to find.

[Ray Khan]

What Fees associated with buying a car is legit? I am looking to put an order in for a car and they are telling me...

Port prep $195
Advertising $250
Admin Fee $295 (dealer fee I assume)
Registration Fee $100

I thought just a dealer fee of $200 or so to cover overhead for the paperwork processing and registration? My state is $75 for a registration so $100 to cover the registration and running isn't too bad.