Anyone dyno yet?

[Justin:NorCal]

I testdrove the new S4 yesterday and feels like it has some good potential. I am considering adding it to the wife and I's stable (Stage 3 B5 S4 and Stage 2 B7 A4). Just curious what the whp #s are.

[Justin:NorCal]

Wow, nobody yet?

[Arin@APR]

It's underrated. ;)

[Mott Power]

I really wouldn't care; I would fork out an extra $4k for a pulley, ECU, and exhaust. It'll be on par with a Stage 3 S4 at that point.

BTW, it's somewhere around the same output as a Stage 2 B5. Just under 300 whp and 315 wtq.

[Keith@APR]

Enjoy!


http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/dyno/30tfsi_long/30tfsi_long_quattro_6mt_93_stock_wheel_uncorrected _all_vs_sae_all.gif

[Nvius]

Awesome, thanks Keith

[blu04srt4]

Wow! Thats quite impressive!

[Keith@APR]

Wow! Thats quite impressive!

Yeah, I now understand why the S4 has been raping all kinda stuff around here it should have no chance at.

FWIW, the last RS4 we had on the dyno made 270awhp.

[valis]

Awesome news, thanks keith!

[AofC_RR]

That is crazy! I can't wait to see the wheel numbers with an ECU tune. If MTM is claiming 430hp jeez......
So is anyone else glad to see the return of forced induction to the S4? This has totally skewed my thinking for my replacement for my B7. I was thinking A5 2.0T for the looks and tuning potential. But damn a P+ S4 6mt with bang and olufsen and I'm happy.

[Sharkfin]

Can you tell me what the EXACT numbers are from that graph? thanks!

[Keith@APR]

Can you tell me what the EXACT numbers are from that graph? thanks!

Which exact numbers? I am sorry, I don't follow.

[Sharkfin]

I'm an idiot, I missed them in the bottom corner, must of looked to fast lol

[Keith@APR]

I'm an idiot, I missed them in the bottom corner, must of looked to fast lol

The S4 definitely looks and IS fast![:D]

[switchface]

Wow.

Keith, what would be the crank numbers after drivetrain loss is taken into affect?

Looking like this car is underrated from the factory.

What's the word on APRs tune Keith?

[Infra]

Can you explain or provide a link to information regarding what corrected vs uncorrected means?

[Keith@APR]

Wow.

Keith, what would be the crank numbers after drivetrain loss is taken into affect?

Looking like this car is underrated from the factory.

What's the word on APRs tune Keith?

Since the only way to calculate back to crank from wheel power is a mythological and fictitious method of a standard drivetrain loss invented by tooners.......

I guess it depends on your perspective.

To get back to Audi's claim at peak torque, its a 5% difference or so.

To get back to Audi's claim at peak hp, its a 5% difference or so.

To get back to Audi's claim at their OEM peak hp, its a 19% difference which was around 5500 rpm's.

So, depending on what calculations you like you could say as most tooners do that most Quattro systems lose around 20-25%. Therefore you are looking at 400-440 BHP corrected or uncorrected.

We like to take the OEM published numbers and compare them to our wheel numbers and then use that calculation to get us back to crank.

So, for us, its looking more like a 5% drivetrain loss which is just as real as any one else's guesses too!

Now, if someone would pull the engine and put it on an engine dyno, we could know for sure.

[switchface]

In your opinion, do you think 5% is an 'accurate/normal' percentage for drivetrain loss or is it more realistic to assume that Audi underrated this car on purpose (sort of like the 335s were when they first came out).

[Keith@APR]

Can you explain or provide a link to information regarding what corrected vs uncorrected means?

This one is decent:

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/cf.htm

sae.org will have the most correct info but its a pretty geeky read.

[Keith@APR]

In your opinion, do you think 5% is an 'accurate/normal' percentage for drivetrain loss or is it more realistic to assume that Audi underrated this car on purpose (sort of like the 335s were when they first came out).

no, its probably low but without an engine dyno to compare you can't rely on anything so we tend to take the high road and if someone makes more than we advertise, yay!

Audi may have under rated the engine or they may be showing average power for every country, fuel quality, ambient condition and other factors that may add up to slightly lower published number than what we see in North America with North American gas and North American climates.

I know China, South Africa, some South American countries, etc. have some terrible gas and countries at high altitudes will be lower output as well.

Think of Audi's numbers as a global average and think of what you see tuners reporting as a more specific number for our specific region of the world.

[L0U]

I notice that none of the kits out right now claim the amount gained, rather just a 430hp claim, with a 333 stock number. If the car is under rated, the 430 claim is ok, but it may only be a 50hp added kit vs a 430-333=97hp. A before and after curve will be a very honest sell, I doubt it will show 97 over the stock curve. It will be real though.

[Keith@APR]

I notice that none of the kits out right now claim the amount gained, rather just a 430hp claim, with a 333 stock number. If the car is under rated, the 430 claim is ok, but it may only be a 50hp added kit vs a 430-333=97hp. A before and after curve will be a very honest sell, I doubt it will show 97 over the stock curve. It will be real though.

winner, winner chicken dinner!

Some tooners seem kinda greasy, huh?

[riegeraudi]

[up] Too you guys at APR for releasing such information to us enthusiasts. So the question goes then the MTM info also must be at the wheels because no way they can achieve 4.6 0-60 with only a 20-30hp boost correct?
I smell tune release coming soon with this info. [:D]

[SpeedETC]

Very interesting... Thanks for the data!!

[drew]

60 more wheel then a rs4? LOL...

i dont buy it.

[thewusman]

no, its probably low but without an engine dyno to compare you can't rely on anything so we tend to take the high road and if someone makes more than we advertise, yay!

Audi may have under rated the engine or they may be showing average power for every country, fuel quality, ambient condition and other factors that may add up to slightly lower published number than what we see in North America with North American gas and North American climates.

I know China, South Africa, some South American countries, etc. have some terrible gas and countries at high altitudes will be lower output as well.

Think of Audi's numbers as a global average and think of what you see tuners reporting as a more specific number for our specific region of the world.

I'd hardly call our 95 RON octane unleaded in South Africa "terrible" Keith.

It's not ideal, but Sasol, the national fuel refiner, is probably making stuff closer to 97/98 Octane these days.

With CO2 emissions tax on the way, our government will be forced to refine higher quality juice relatively soon.

I'm sure you guys can still work with that hey.[;)]

Now what's the time frame for your APR map.

[Nickyracer]

winner, winner chicken dinner!

Some tooners seem kinda greasy, huh?

Thanks for the graph, Keith!
I don't only understand what "corrected" graphs mean.

You really think that MTM are very much optimistic promising 430 hp with their Cantronic? - other reputed German tuners like ABT and Sportec offer very similar numbers.
Have you managed to "crack" Motronic ECU of S4 B8?

P.S. I guess no performance car is underrated in published power and torque figures - as Enzo Ferrari once said, "Horsepowers sell the cars..." - then added "but newton-meters win the races".

[Tifosi]

Kudos to APR, thank you for sharing the dyno data with the rest of us.

As an ex-APR Stage 3 B5-S4 owner, I find all this to be rather nostalgic. The excitment felt surrounding the V6T powerplant is no less than the same excitment felt around the APB powerplant that was found in the B5-S4/RS4.

Please continue to keep us posted on APR's progress on these engines.

[speedydragon]

too bad the car is so heavy though :|

[NWS4Guy]

Thanks for the graph, Keith!
I don't only understand what "corrected" graphs mean.


The corrections are done using a formula. With it, most anyone can run a car on any dyno and the numbers should come out nearly the same. Since a car can run better in colder weather than hot, and in lower elevations than high, etc - this correction method tries to remove all those factors.

[legbend]

How many miles on the car at that time?

[Keith@APR]

I'd hardly call our 95 RON octane unleaded in South Africa "terrible" Keith.



Maybe our gas is just really good then?

We have to pay special attention to calibrations for your area.

I didn't mean to offend.

[Keith@APR]

Thanks for the graph, Keith!
I don't only understand what "corrected" graphs mean.

You really think that MTM are very much optimistic promising 430 hp with their Cantronic? - other reputed German tuners like ABT and Sportec offer very similar numbers.
Have you managed to "crack" Motronic ECU of S4 B8?

P.S. I guess no performance car is underrated in published power and torque figures - as Enzo Ferrari once said, "Horsepowers sell the cars..." - then added "but newton-meters win the races".

They may be using a different dyno that has given them different wheel numbers on an OEM car. MAHA's typically read wheel power lower than most popular dyno's in the USA.

Australia seems to have alot of Mainline and DynoDynamics which read very low too in comparison to Mustangs, Dynojets, etc.

[Keith@APR]

60 more wheel then a rs4? LOL...

i dont buy it.

Unless the dyno is broken which it doesn't seem to be as it reads similar to what it always has on other cars that have been on as of late.

We also use a dynojet not far from us to confirm our numbers and our dyno has been consistently recording slightly lower than the dj.

The S4 is faster than GTi's with 310-315whp and 330'ish wtrq.

My B6 with bolt ons put down the same power as the last RS4 we had.

[Arin@APR]

I notice that none of the kits out right now claim the amount gained, rather just a 430hp claim, with a 333 stock number. If the car is under rated, the 430 claim is ok, but it may only be a 50hp added kit vs a 430-333=97hp. A before and after curve will be a very honest sell, I doubt it will show 97 over the stock curve. It will be real though.


I also have to chime in with another *Ding Ding Ding* on this post!

Look at the B8 A4 dynos. The talk around the world is that American Tuning companies don't know how to make power, however that's not the case.

The B8 A4 and the B8 S4 are both fairly underrated from the factory. We only used around a 10% drivetrain loss to get back to the advertised Audi figures on a tiptronic quattro vehicle! Most would say that's very low.

Most European tuners are simply reporting the stock Audi figures as 'stock', not figures they have actually tested. Then they overlay their 'chipped' MAHA 25-40% drivetrain loss dynos over top of Audi's stock figures and claim insane gains.

We'll try to be as scientific as we can when reporting power for this engine. I for one am excited. This engine is a beast! [up]

[NWS4Guy]

Me too Keith and Arin! I can't wait for more info from you guys :)

[thewusman]

Maybe our gas is just really good then?

We have to pay special attention to calibrations for your area.

I didn't mean to offend.

None taken ![:)]

Just pointing out than those of us who love their cars in SA know where to get slightly better octane.

Having said that ... sometimes there is just no avoiding a tank of shocking africa "quality" gasoline.

As for the rest of the country - yeah - the petrol is rotgut except for BP, Shell and Sasol 95 unleaded.

Keep up the good work with the new Sssssss4. [up]

[S4tranquility]

Yeah, I now understand why the S4 has been raping all kinda stuff around here it should have no chance at.

FWIW, the last RS4 we had on the dyno made 270awhp.

OUCH.

[Nickyracer]

Well, it seems that I'd better wait for a while before attempting to buy MTM's Cantronic for my S4. :)

[NoTec]

OUCH.

Don't forget that RS4 owners may unknowingly suffer from two problems. Horsepower-robbing carbon build up and the wounded DRC. I wouldn't be surprised if this particular RS4 was wounded.

[Keith@APR]

Don't forget that RS4 owners may unknowingly suffer from two problems. Horsepower-robbing carbon build up and the wounded DRC. I wouldn't be surprised if this particular RS4 was wounded.

Potentially. My B6 S4 made 270awhp on the same dyno with a full straight through exhaust, intake and some super sauce our calibration expert made for me.

When I raced that RS4 it would be dead even until I had to shift and of course the RS4 didn't so he'd creep half a car each gear.

[Nickyracer]

German tuner Sportec on their domestic site shows stock dyno graph of S4 B8, which is close to Audi-claimed 333 hp, and graph with their own chip, which shows 425 hp.

[sakimano]

just be sure NOT to use 'that last RS4' as the proxy for the RS4...that's a bit aggressive as even problematic RS4s dyno 300, while strong running ones (i.e. no Carbon disaster lurking) are closer to 325-350.

that 270whp RS4 guy definitely had serious problems. If I brought a B8 S4 in with a manifold full of chicken nuggets and it put down 200whp...would that be the proxy for the B8? [:D]

Anyway, thanks for posting. Always good to hear from you guys.



Unless the dyno is broken which it doesn't seem to be as it reads similar to what it always has on other cars that have been on as of late.

We also use a dynojet not far from us to confirm our numbers and our dyno has been consistently recording slightly lower than the dj.

The S4 is faster than GTi's with 310-315whp and 330'ish wtrq.

My B6 with bolt ons put down the same power as the last RS4 we had.

[Keith@APR]

just be sure NOT to use 'that last RS4' as the proxy for the RS4...that's a bit aggressive as even problematic RS4s dyno 300, while strong running ones (i.e. no Carbon disaster lurking) are closer to 325-350.

that 270whp RS4 guy definitely had serious problems. If I brought a B8 S4 in with a manifold full of chicken nuggets and it put down 200whp...would that be the proxy for the B8? [:D]

Anyway, thanks for posting. Always good to hear from you guys.

I'll agree for sure! I don't think that RS4 was healthy either as the numbers are low. It made a good power increase with our ECU Upgrade though.[up]

[Arin@APR]

...a manifold full of chicken nuggets...


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