MTM B8 S4 **430 hp/ 381lbs./ft TQ** Now Available

[mtmspeed]

2900 includes everything you need to install plus instructions-takes the first timer about an hour and a half. [up]

here is a video from MTM showing how to install the cantronic on an A5 3.0d. Installation will be very similar. All hardware and wiring is OE quality and plug and play for the most part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghmrJqB-Gg&feature=player_embedded

[CO AVANT]

Are these numbers at the crank or wheels?

[L0U]

crank, Is this the 430hp kit with speed limiter removal, or just the 430hp kit? Do you ship to canada?

does it work with our pump gas 91 octane

[mtmspeed]

crank, Is this the 430hp kit with speed limiter removal, or just the 430hp kit? Do you ship to canada?

does it work with our pump gas 91 octane

The kit with M cantronic and V cantronic(speed limiter removal) is 3500 and I can ship to Canada.[up] The kits are ordered specific to VIN which takes a couple of days to put together, so figure a couple of weeks to get it shipped from Germany. It will work with your gas. These are sale prices good through the end of 09.

[aaron1085]

wow...thats not TOO bad of a price

[KReddy05]

$3500 for a piggy back?! Maybe I'm new to Audis, but that seems kind of steep...

[Stone825]

$3500 for a piggy back?! Maybe I'm new to Audis, but that seems kind of steep...

Nope it is a steep price. MTM usually has products on the market first so they can charge $$$ for them.

You'll probably see prices at $700 when the rest of the world comes out with their flashes.

[mtmspeed]

$3500 for a piggy back?! Maybe I'm new to Audis, but that seems kind of steep...

MTM[hail].....yes, you are new to Audi[:D]

There stuff is always pricey by American standards but so is Techart for Porsche...It costs to run the best.

[AJS1]

uh oh, I just saw the no-no relative term "it costs to run the BEST" too funny...

[F16HTON]

MTM is far from the best...this software is not optimized for good ol USA fuel either. I would expect ECU calibrations from APR or GIAC to be in the $999 range however.

[Jung]

the best? more like the most snooty.. every single person i've met that has MTM is the biggest nutswinging jerkoff. It's not THAT good, just exclusive. These numbers are impressive, however. i'm looking forward to see what will become of the aftermarket for the new S4. now, it's looking like it will respond well to mods.



I like how i've gotten neg repped multiple times for dissing MTM. god you guys gotta get thicker skin, seriously.

[Stone825]

MTM is far from the best...this software is not optimized for good ol USA fuel either. I would expect ECU calibrations from APR or GIAC to be in the $999 range however.

Yea I kind of undershot that price. Anyways would you rather have a actually chip or a flash when you go to the dealer for warranty work [;)]

[mtmspeed]

the best? more like the most snooty.. every single person i've met that has MTM is the biggest nutswinging jerkoff. .

Just Letting people know who Actually have a B8 S4 that this product is available....Why do people get so personal and want to disect everything for arguements sake.. was the 'nutswinging jerkoff really called for? It's just cars man!

[yettavr6]

Damn, I know which chip i WON'T be getting when I get my S4.

[Jung]

Just Letting people know who Actually have a B8 S4 that this product is available....Why do people get so personal and want to disect everything for arguements sake.. was the 'nutswinging jerkoff really called for? It's just cars man!

i appreciate that... but i was just expressing my experiences with owners of MTM Audis. Yes that was called fore because the guys were total douchers that were really cocky because of their "expensive parts". I mean it's a good part and all, but it's just not performance that you could get from other companies, and you're paying twice as much. If I were an antsy B8 owner that was jonesin for a chip, I would probably consider buying it just because it's the quickest way to have a better car than stock.

[mtmspeed]

[QUOTE=Jung;4270241]Yes that was called fore because the guys were total douchers that were really cocky because of their "expensive parts".QUOTE]

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm.jpg

Again with the name calling![headbang]

[1_clean_Audi]

so what is teh HP for the 2.0 US? 6MT?

so if im correct this is like a giac/apr flash but in this case its teh actual chip it self.?

if so this is handy cause if you ever due for maintanace just remove it?.

[iceboss23]

Is there a thread on here for newbs to tuning? Something that explains terms and differences between things like "Flash" and "Chipping"? How much tuning wears on an engine? How to tell what kind of tuning will affect warranties?

[notjoefromnh]

Looks like a rebellion of the people.

[NoTec]

Is there a thread on here for newbs to tuning? Something that explains terms and differences between things like "Flash" and "Chipping"? How much tuning wears on an engine? How to tell what kind of tuning will affect warranties?

The product being offered by MTM is a "piggy-back ecu system." It is installed with a supplied harness inline with the factory ecu. It's often the quick way to offer flashing solutions for a specific platform when these vehicles have overly complex ecus that may take months to crack.

Just to address your questions, this MTM piggyback unit tunes the vehicle by modifying fuel, ignition timing, boost, and possibly throttle response. Other parameters may be modified also but those are the main ones.

The difference between a flash and chip is simple. A flash is simply a new program (modifying the parameters listed above) that overwrites the factory program within the vehicles ecu. This can be done to the engine ecu, transmission ecu (if auto), and differential ecu (if equipped). So basically it's just a software modification.
Chipping is a term used to explain the above process but with one more step that was once required for earlier vehicles where reflashing the factory ecu was not possible. It involves removing the factory prom/eprom/eeprom and installing a new pre-programmed eprom/eeprom to the ecu. This is an actual hardware modification which generally requires desoldering and soldering.

Tuning per se does not "wear on an engine." Your right foot causes wear and tear on an engine. A "bad" or "overly aggressive" tune can severely harm an engine. But manufactures usually release mild, reliable, and safe tunes..... usually! A good tune generally won't make your engine any more reliable than the factory tune. Engine failure was either always destined to happen for an engine or it was caused by driver error or driving habits.

All types of tuning that is NOT a "manufacturer tune" or manufacturer "approved tune," such as the BMW flash or BMW Dinan relationship, WILL void your engine and drivetrain warranty if the manufacturer deems the modification responsible for the failure. So it doesn't matter if you drive an Evo, M3, 911tt, or S4. If you have an unapproved tune on any of those vehicles and begin to experience engine or drivetrain problems, if the dealer chooses to be prickish, they can and will void your warranty. You do have the option of fighting it out legally but good luck. Hope that helped.

[mtmspeed]

Wow! That is an awesome Response....Glad someone has the time for all that typing. Usually people scorn the Newbs with STFA! Way To go!

[NoTec]

Wow! That is an awesome Response....Glad someone has the time for all that typing. Usually people scorn the Newbs with STFA! Way To go!

Well, I was once a newbie and knew nothing about cars and electronics. And also, he asked politely! [:p]

[iceboss23]

Hey thanks a lot! That definitely helped. Any further info or links to where to learn more on the subject would be appreciated.

Happy driving.[drive]

[mtmspeed]

Hey thanks a lot! That definitely helped. Any further info or links to where to learn more on the subject would be appreciated.

Happy driving.[drive]

Revo has an abridged video of the differences between chipping and flashing

http://revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/uploadTheDifference.aspx

[sakimano]

MTMSPEED - please explain to everyone that this is just a piggy, and not a pulley upgrade+piggy.

Everytime the MTM B8 product is discussed, naysayers insist that there must be a smaller pulley at play.


p.s. for the rest of the folks out there questioning the cost, ABT also offers a very similar product with nearly identical gains...and it's about 25% MORE expensive!

[riegeraudi]

IMO the only benefit of MTM and ABT is possibly that the piggyback device can be used in another auto if you change cars. Can it be reflashed to do another vehicle? Otherwise I really don't see any other benefits over APR, Giac or Revo. I am sure they will have just a reliable product as the MTM but at a much lower price I hope.
When you say "the Best" can you explain how it is that you come to that conclusion over other alternatives or programs? If not than "the best" really means marketing doesn't it? I am not asking this in a hostile manner but really like to know so that I can judge for myselft and if it is really the best as in reliability in the long run or something like that than it would be feasible to pay more.

[Keith@APR]

IMO the only benefit of MTM and ABT is possibly that the piggyback device can be used in another auto if you change cars. Can it be reflashed to do another vehicle? Otherwise I really don't see any other benefits over APR, Giac or Revo. I am sure they will have just a reliable product as the MTM but at a much lower price I hope.
When you say "the Best" can you explain how it is that you come to that conclusion over other alternatives or programs? If not than "the best" really means marketing doesn't it? I am not asking this in a hostile manner but really like to know so that I can judge for myselft and if it is really the best as in reliability in the long run or something like that than it would be feasible to pay more.

This debate is rather easy regarding this product as the SIMOS ecu inside the S4 is a load based, compensational mapping engine management system with over 2400 interdependent and connected maps.

A signal conditioner, err, piggy back, only let's the ecu see a manipulated feedback signal from the senors the ecu relies on that is not the actual engine operation mapping or operating parameters and keeps the ecu from interfering in what the piggyback is trying to accomplish.

Piggybacks are considered the lowest form of ecu tuning.

[jimmyrecluse]

MTM have a history, a long one. And they are usually first to do something. Sometimes they do some amazing things like the B6/7 Supercharger, years ago. and the RS4's and the R888. they have balls.

[Keith@APR]

MTM have a history, a long one. And they are usually first to do something. Sometimes they do some amazing things like the B6/7 Supercharger, years ago. and the RS4's and the R888. they have balls.

Don't forget the Bi-moto, it was badass!


Strange how this product is such a complete deviation from their typical OEM integration philosophy. I wonder if Roland lost his juice with Ingolstadt?

[riegeraudi]

I would like to ask also with the increased hp's I assume this will make everything run hotter. So the question goes will this affect long term reliability in anyway. Would it need an upgraded oil cooler for example. Don't won't the same thing the 335i owners had when their cars kept shutting down on them.
It is one thing to go from 200-260hp for an example on an A4 but to go from 333hp to 435hp is pretty big jump. My thinking is anything over 400+hp is pretty big numbers so want to make sure I am not in for any suprises in the long run since I do plan to keep the car for a while.

[KReddy05]

"oooh loookie an MTM badge on my car, LOLZ!"

Dinan can get away with charging a crap load of $ for the same shit because you can still retain the warranty through Dinan, and certain BMW dealers will actually install their products and warranty the car for you. Justifiable.

That being said, I'm not sure of MTM's U.S. warranty policies or if any authorized dealers will install. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[jimmyrecluse]

I would like to ask also with the increased hp's I assume this will make everything run hotter. So the question goes will this affect long term reliability in anyway. Would it need an upgraded oil cooler for example. Don't won't the same thing the 335i owners had when their cars kept shutting down on them.
It is one thing to go from 200-260hp for an example on an A4 but to go from 333hp to 435hp is pretty big jump. My thinking is anything over 400+hp is pretty big numbers so want to make sure I am not in for any suprises in the long run since I do plan to keep the car for a while.

Generally, increase in power is more stress (largely depends on how you drive too) but I know that Audis, and pretty much any car and motorcycle, run better with a tune. more efficient anyway but ok... more power more stress logic says shorter life but I dont know of any way to quantify how much shorter. I think most tuners and mechanics say that if the tune is right, and you dont out right abuse it it will last just as long.

[SebGood]

"

Dinan can get away with charging a crap load of $ for the same shit because you can still retain the warranty through Dinan

An Audi dealer told me that Stasis is forming a similar relationship with many of the Audi dealerships. You can take your car to the Audi dealer, get it Stasis tuned/flashed, and you will still have warranty coverage. I think Stasis basically covers you if Audi decides not to cover you on an Audi repair due to the Stasis mods.

Has anyone else heard about this and know if it's true? If I can flash my S4 and still have warranty protection, I'll definitely be waiting for that one.

[riegeraudi]

Count me in too. I am suprised not more tuners go this route since it would really validate the quality of the work and that it is safe.
I wouldn't want the same situation with the tiptronic transmission problems after people tuned their cars on my DSG tranny. I think eventually all tuners would have to go this route or just loose out. If Stassis does it then why would anyone go with any other tune? Keith do you guys think you will go this route also. I think you have done this for VW haven't you?

[L0U]

The motor was made for 400hp. This 3.0 will be used in many audis in the future, and it will come stock with 400 hp via running more boost. The engine only experiences more force under wide open throttle. If you are cruising on the highway, there is no difference. So if 10% of your driving is to the floor acceleration, then yeah during that 10% of your driving you have a bit more wear and tear.
This charger is efficient and produces less heat than a turbo though. Pushing 430 hp with a turbo would cause more harm than using this new charger.

burns less oil than a turbo,
turbos raise the exhaust temperature pretty extreme (hard on oil temps)
turbos raise the inlet temperature more as well (hence large intercoolers needed)
but yes turbos are efficient. Although Audi claims they tried both this charger and a twin turbo design, and the charger gave better hp/tq/gas mileage overall...so they went with it.

there are 2 mtm choices...one hits 21 psi, the other 15ish. check the website. So you can do a mid hp tune of around 380hp

[riegeraudi]

Thanks lou that's what I was looking for.
U.S. Tuners can you guys give us a rough estimate when something will be released?
Another question would be if I have my ecu flashed with say an APR or Giac software and then I have a problem with my car can the dealer flash my ECU to factory spec and remove the APR or Giac Software until my problem is solved? Would Audi be aware of this flash or just my dealer would know?

[jimmyrecluse]

Thanks lou that's what I was looking for.
U.S. Tuners can you guys give us a rough estimate when something will be released?
Another question would be if I have my ecu flashed with say an APR or Giac software and then I have a problem with my car can the dealer flash my ECU to factory spec and remove the APR or Giac Software until my problem is solved? Would Audi be aware of this flash or just my dealer would know?

If you get, say APR, and you take it in for service just switch it to stock mode. If there is a more recent program from Audi than what you have, they will upload it overwriting your tune. Just take it back to your tuner and they should reflash you , for free almost always. Some tuners charge a service fee, like a $30 labor charge. Most do it free.

[Ivan01]

are there any performance #'s, like 0-60 in how many seconds with this tune?

[Todeshandler]

Strange how this product is such a complete deviation from their typical OEM integration philosophy. I wonder if Roland lost his juice with Ingolstadt?
would appear so.

[L0U]

are there any performance #'s, like 0-60 in how many seconds with this tune?

Yes 4.6 seconds vs. 5.1

It becomes a match for the RS4 acceleration pretty much.

[Ivan01]

Yes 4.6 seconds vs. 5.1

It becomes a match for the RS4 acceleration pretty much.

Thanks, I guess thats also pretty close to e90 m3 with 4.2 seconds. With 420 hp/ and 295lb ft tq. and weight 3,704 lb. The #'s don't add up [headbang]. why is m3 still faster.

[mtmspeed]

"oooh loookie an MTM badge on my car, LOLZ!"

Dinan can get away with charging a crap load of $ for the same shit because you can still retain the warranty through Dinan, and certain BMW dealers will actually install their products and warranty the car for you. Justifiable.

That being said, I'm not sure of MTM's U.S. warranty policies or if any authorized dealers will install. Anyone care to enlighten me?


Most of the MTM dealers in the states are Audi dealers.

[L0U]

4.2 is extremely fast for a regular daily driver. 0 to 200km/hr was 17.9, top speed 287km/hr gas 10.7l/100km.

The 380hp kit costs less, might be a decent tweak for some who want less max boost on the motor.

I found a test online thay had a stock S4 doing 4.9, 17.5 0to200, and 13.2 1/4. this should translate to 4.6 chipped, but much better than 17.9 0 to 200...maybe they meant 15.9. the m3 is 15.5ish. the stock s4 beat the 335 by 2 seconds to 200km/hr.

[NoTec]

Thanks, I guess thats also pretty close to e90 m3 with 4.2 seconds. With 420 hp/ and 295lb ft tq. and weight 3,704 lb. The #'s don't add up [headbang]. why is m3 still faster.

Yes it's very close to the M3. E90/92 M3 has half the drivetrain loss or better (avg 350 whp and 250 wtq) and it's still lighter. Stock M3 V8's tend to be as quick as M5's until the top end (above 120 mph) where the V10 screams away pretty swiftly. <-- That'd be why they are still faster. For the average joe though, it may be easier to drive the S4 faster while being a little safer around a track or on a backroad.

[pharmer]

"oooh loookie an MTM badge on my car, LOLZ!"

Dinan can get away with charging a crap load of $ for the same shit because you can still retain the warranty through Dinan, and certain BMW dealers will actually install their products and warranty the car for you. Justifiable.

That being said, I'm not sure of MTM's U.S. warranty policies or if any authorized dealers will install. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I spoke with my dealer today and he told me that he believes there are a couple of Audi dealers in north NJ/NY that actually do Stasis tuning at the dealer. I think the dealers he said were Bell Audi and/or Anchor Audi.

Anyone know this to be true? He also told me that his dealership, where I ordered my car from is considered to be "chip friendly". So if there was some sort of a problem with my vehicle, his dealership would not go out of the way to try to prove my warranty void. He said it would take a lot of work for Audi to prove that the damage to my car was actually caused by a tune. Work they are not really going to spend time doing. He made it sound like just doing any tuning does not void the warranty on your car, it must be proven by Audi that the tune caused the damage to whatever your warranty claim is. Apparently, the guys in his garage, won't be "looking" for this kind of thing when they are working on your car

FWIW, he seems very knowledgeable about Audi, Audi tuning and different tuners in the US. I like what I heard from him. Anyone have any personal experience?

[Shomegrown]

I spoke with my dealer today and he told me that he believes there are a couple of Audi dealers in north NJ/NY that actually do Stasis tuning at the dealer. I think the dealers he said were Bell Audi and/or Anchor Audi.

Anyone know this to be true? He also told me that his dealership, where I ordered my car from is considered to be "chip friendly". So if there was some sort of a problem with my vehicle, his dealership would not go out of the way to try to prove my warranty void. He said it would take a lot of work for Audi to prove that the damage to my car was actually caused by a tune. Work they are not really going to spend time doing. He made it sound like just doing any tuning does not void the warranty on your car, it must be proven by Audi that the tune caused the damage to whatever your warranty claim is. Apparently, the guys in his garage, won't be "looking" for this kind of thing when they are working on your car

FWIW, he seems very knowledgeable about Audi, Audi tuning and different tuners in the US. I like what I heard from him. Anyone have any personal experience?

That might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but the guys at his shop don't call the shots if something serious goes wrong with your car.

They will send in engineers from AoA or Audi AG who look at things entirely differently.

Not to be a prick, but that's the reality. This dealer won't care if you come in with a leaking coolant hose...

but you better believe if you're unlucky enough to lose a supercharger or block, there's nothing this guy can do to help you.

[riegeraudi]

Most of the MTM dealers in the states are Audi dealers.

Still doesn't mean anything until MTM warranties the car if audi denies warranty like Dinan has done with BMW's.
I say first Tuner to offer it at all dealers or atleast offer the insurance will win the tuning wars.

[pharmer]

That might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but the guys at his shop don't call the shots if something serious goes wrong with your car.

They will send in engineers from AoA or Audi AG who look at things entirely differently.

Not to be a prick, but that's the reality. This dealer won't care if you come in with a leaking coolant hose...

but you better believe if you're unlucky enough to lose a supercharger or block, there's nothing this guy can do to help you.

Like anything, it would most certainly come down to dollars. Like you say, I wouldn't expect to blow up the engine that would require a 5 or 10k dollar warranty claim to not raise any flags.

Obviously something like that would go way over his head. Forgive my stupidity, but the impression that I get from many people is that they would not do any tuning to their vehicle as that immediately voids your warranty. What I found interesting is that while this may be technical rule, it is not really enforced for smaller, unrelated warranty claims. This may be common knowledge to some but it was news to me.

This is my first experience with Audi, I have never owned any of their vehicles before. This will also be my first experience in after market tuning. I am excited and can't wait.

My car is scheduled to arrive Nov 16th

[Shomegrown]

Like anything, it would most certainly come down to dollars. Like you say, I wouldn't expect to blow up the engine that would require a 5 or 10k dollar warranty claim to not raise any flags.

Obviously something like that would go way over his head. Forgive my stupidity, but the impression that I get from many people is that they would not do any tuning to their vehicle as that immediately voids your warranty. What I found interesting is that while this may be technical rule, it is not really enforced for smaller, unrelated warranty claims. This may be common knowledge to some but it was news to me.

This is my first experience with Audi, I have never owned any of their vehicles before. This will also be my first experience in after market tuning. I am excited and can't wait.

My car is scheduled to arrive Nov 16th

Not stupidity at all, and I think you have a good handle on things.

If you have a good relationship with your dealer, you probably won't have any problems with low cost items.

Policy is though (espeically on new to market vehicles) that unique or high dollar repairs will get escalated way above the dealership levels to specialists who don't know you. They'll only be out looking for the root cause.

[Ivan01]

Yes it's very close to the M3. E90/92 M3 has half the drivetrain loss or better (avg 350 whp and 250 wtq) and it's still lighter. Stock M3 V8's tend to be as quick as M5's until the top end (above 120 mph) where the V10 screams away pretty swiftly. <-- That'd be why they are still faster. For the average joe though, it may be easier to drive the S4 faster while being a little safer around a track or on a backroad.

Yeah you right about half loss of drivetrain in m3. But you have to remember that s4 is awd and this is from 0-60 and not from 60-120 which is clearly fwd and rwd advantage. Also the 4.6 time is not with 6 speed is it? Because with that much power, the s4 should be faster if it's lunched the right way. Any ways it's still looks like an amazing performance car. And I hope to get one soon[drive].

[Ivan01]

I spoke with my dealer today and he told me that he believes there are a couple of Audi dealers in north NJ/NY that actually do Stasis tuning at the dealer. I think the dealers he said were Bell Audi and/or Anchor Audi.

Anyone know this to be true? He also told me that his dealership, where I ordered my car from is considered to be "chip friendly". So if there was some sort of a problem with my vehicle, his dealership would not go out of the way to try to prove my warranty void. He said it would take a lot of work for Audi to prove that the damage to my car was actually caused by a tune. Work they are not really going to spend time doing. He made it sound like just doing any tuning does not void the warranty on your car, it must be proven by Audi that the tune caused the damage to whatever your warranty claim is. Apparently, the guys in his garage, won't be "looking" for this kind of thing when they are working on your car

FWIW, he seems very knowledgeable about Audi, Audi tuning and different tuners in the US. I like what I heard from him. Anyone have any personal experience?


I think it all comes down to the dealer and to the sales person at the shop. If they know you, or like you, or into modding cars, or even getting some ass later in the day. They might look other way even if you have mods. It all depends on your timeing. At least thats what happend to me couple of times. In another words modding is at your own risk.

[L0U]

MTM has reputation to consider. No one releases a product that is so aggressive it breaks the car. The last thing they need is 80% of customers ending up with blown cars. The smaller companys may push the envelope further to claim 1% more gain, but they are risking a hit, vs. gaining market share to be faster. Long term reliability has to be a factor in the mods.

I know there is some risk, but I feel that any true warrenty issue will be covered by my dealership, and if the mods cause the epik faillure of the part...I deserve to pay.

[Euroluv]

I spoke with my dealer today and he told me that he believes there are a couple of Audi dealers in north NJ/NY that actually do Stasis tuning at the dealer. I think the dealers he said were Bell Audi and/or Anchor Audi.

Anyone know this to be true? He also told me that his dealership, where I ordered my car from is considered to be "chip friendly". So if there was some sort of a problem with my vehicle, his dealership would not go out of the way to try to prove my warranty void. He said it would take a lot of work for Audi to prove that the damage to my car was actually caused by a tune. Work they are not really going to spend time doing. He made it sound like just doing any tuning does not void the warranty on your car, it must be proven by Audi that the tune caused the damage to whatever your warranty claim is. Apparently, the guys in his garage, won't be "looking" for this kind of thing when they are working on your car

FWIW, he seems very knowledgeable about Audi, Audi tuning and different tuners in the US. I like what I heard from him. Anyone have any personal experience?

Out in Az, both Audi North Scottsdale and Audi Chandler are STaSIS Engineering Authorized dealerships. everything will be still under warranty. [up]

[bl0wn3ur0]

Having worked a dealership(subaru) and having a friend that was a service writer at audi of mahattan, I can tell you warranty claims are handled at the dealership. Warranty claims are denied if they want to be difficult or just want to be assholes. All AOA cares about is that the part you send back for warranty claim is actually broken. If you blow up your supercharger, they could warranty it with no problem because the part is actually broken. As long as the part doesn't show signs of being tampered with, they can warranty any claim.

[bl0wn3ur0]

I forgot to add this part....I bought my car at anchor, they are an APR dealer. I've never seen them advertise any stasis products, they sell APR and AWE products. I have revo software and they have never given me any problems about it.

[UnVmya4]

that's the difference between awd and rwd. like most audi's the hp/tq numbers posted are the numbers available at the crank and not the translated power to the wheels. the e90 m3 splits its 420 hp 295tq between its two rear wheels, whereas the b8 s4 splits its power between four wheels and not part of it is lost to the drivetrain.

[Groove1797]

whereas the b8 s4 splits its power between four wheels and not part of it is lost to the drivetrain.

[headbang]

Your not too skilled in the physics field are you.... or Engrish?

[pharmer]

I forgot to add this part....I bought my car at anchor, they are an APR dealer. I've never seen them advertise any stasis products, they sell APR and AWE products. I have revo software and they have never given me any problems about it.

Thanks, I kind of caught him off guard with these questions about tuning and he was speaking off the top if his head, I guess he had them confused or maybe I don't remember the conversation correctly.

He had a lot of good things to say about AWE especially since they are relatively local to where his dealership is

[joseaudi]

What if Audi gave us updates on software like apple with the Iphone? Imagine them giving us an update that would increase our HP to 400. Wouldn't that be awsome, i'd pay for that!!

[ProgMetalHead]

[headbang]

Your not too skilled in the physics field are you.... or Engrish?

LOL. Oh, the ironing is hilarious.

I do agree, though. I don't know if it was a typo, or his understanding is backwards.
You lose MORE power at the wheels with AWD, not less/none. I'd still prefer AWD, anyway.
It rained pretty hard the other night, and from a stop, I stepped on the gas pretty heavily and the car just flew. Not a single slip... being relatively new to Audi and AWD, I couldn't believe it! It's a really great feeling.

[AeroSmith]

2900 includes everything you need to install plus instructions-takes the first timer about an hour and a half. [up]

here is a video from MTM showing how to install the cantronic on an A5 3.0d. Installation will be very similar. All hardware and wiring is OE quality and plug and play for the most part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghmrJqB-Gg&feature=player_embedded

Is it fair to assume this will be available for the 2010 S5 Cabriolets? Thanks.

[riegeraudi]

In my opinion AWD is better for the average person who use the cars as daily drivers. Sure if you are a professional driver you probably can drive a RWD car faster around a track but if you are going to take the car and race them on the street or around on onramps than I think the AWD will allow one to explore the edge a little more especially the roads are not always perfect. I always here BMW guys say RWD this and that and AWD is no good etc. and then I think about the Carrera 4s and 911turbo and the lambo's and even Ferrari is coming out with an AWD and just figure the BMW guys are just jealous of the Quattro because I don't here them complaining about the AWD on those cars.

[Keith@APR]

Count me in too. I am suprised not more tuners go this route since it would really validate the quality of the work and that it is safe.
I wouldn't want the same situation with the tiptronic transmission problems after people tuned their cars on my DSG tranny. I think eventually all tuners would have to go this route or just loose out. If Stassis does it then why would anyone go with any other tune? Keith do you guys think you will go this route also. I think you have done this for VW haven't you?

We are exploring a similar option. We would like to offer it legitimately through the Dealerships and AoA directly. The biggest fear of such a program as being discussed is that the tuner will be blamed for failures that are not the fault of the tuner. That's one of the reasons tuners "hide" their calibrations now. "you've got a chip? well, your radio warranty is void. Make APR pay for a new radio."

[Keith@APR]

4.2 is extremely fast for a regular daily driver. 0 to 200km/hr was 17.9, top speed 287km/hr gas 10.7l/100km.

The 380hp kit costs less, might be a decent tweak for some who want less max boost on the motor.

I found a test online thay had a stock S4 doing 4.9, 17.5 0to200, and 13.2 1/4. this should translate to 4.6 chipped, but much better than 17.9 0 to 200...maybe they meant 15.9. the m3 is 15.5ish. the stock s4 beat the 335 by 2 seconds to 200km/hr.

I'll see if I can get some drift box numbers this weekend. Our S4's are pretty fast OEM as they are beating some modded cars I didn't think they would be able to.

[Keith@APR]

Yes it's very close to the M3. E90/92 M3 has half the drivetrain loss or better (avg 350 whp and 250 wtq) and it's still lighter. Stock M3 V8's tend to be as quick as M5's until the top end (above 120 mph) where the V10 screams away pretty swiftly. <-- That'd be why they are still faster. For the average joe though, it may be easier to drive the S4 faster while being a little safer around a track or on a backroad.

The sport diff is going to have the S4 destroying some cars on the track it would otherwise never even come close to.

[HotSauce]

So much chatter here. Buy it or don't. This is big power. Kinda pricy yea, but no one else is offering it.

I'm excited to see what happens in a few years once all the tuners get their stuff sorted out. Rebirth of the B5 S4 style competition!!

[Keith@APR]

Not stupidity at all, and I think you have a good handle on things.

If you have a good relationship with your dealer, you probably won't have any problems with low cost items.

Policy is though (espeically on new to market vehicles) that unique or high dollar repairs will get escalated way above the dealership levels to specialists who don't know you. They'll only be out looking for the root cause.

and also remember that those same people that don't know you once its escalated have a strong desire to save money on their new car warranties. any dollar saved during the warranty period is more bottom line for AoA.

the trend in the past has been to blame literally almost anything on the modification.

to reiterate my earlier post, part of the reason tuners hide the calibrations is because the dealers and AoA tech support personnel aren't trained to understand anything about the aftermarket other than its bad and not allowed. they don't know what a tuner does to a car and how it affects the car. even further down the road of confusion, they also have no way of determining whether each tuner did something bad to the car or not. they have no idea what the difference between an APR calibration and GIAC calibration are and how each affect the engine. its even as bad sometimes as this one service guy heard that some aftermarket chip blew up a guy's engine so all aftermarket chips must blow up engines.

[2001A6]

and also remember that those same people that don't know you once its escalated have a strong desire to save money on their new car warranties. any dollar saved during the warranty period is more bottom line for AoA.

the trend in the past has been to blame literally almost anything on the modification.

to reiterate my earlier post, part of the reason tuners hide the calibrations is because the dealers and AoA tech support personnel aren't trained to understand anything about the aftermarket other than its bad and not allowed. they don't know what a tuner does to a car and how it affects the car. even further down the road of confusion, they also have no way of determining whether each tuner did something bad to the car or not. they have no idea what the difference between an APR calibration and GIAC calibration are and how each affect the engine. its even as bad sometimes as this one service guy heard that some aftermarket chip blew up a guy's engine so all aftermarket chips must blow up engines.

Soo true. Why should I have to listen to a lecture from a service manager because he sees exhaust on my 99xxx mile car, thats in for an ABS light [confused]

I would love to see AOA work with tuners, like BMW does.

[Sharkfin]

its even as bad sometimes as this one service guy heard that some aftermarket chip blew up a guy's engine so all aftermarket chips must blow up engines.

I've seen this first hand, you are right and it's very unfortunate.

[KReddy05]

and also remember that those same people that don't know you once its escalated have a strong desire to save money on their new car warranties. any dollar saved during the warranty period is more bottom line for AoA.

the trend in the past has been to blame literally almost anything on the modification.

to reiterate my earlier post, part of the reason tuners hide the calibrations is because the dealers and AoA tech support personnel aren't trained to understand anything about the aftermarket other than its bad and not allowed. they don't know what a tuner does to a car and how it affects the car. even further down the road of confusion, they also have no way of determining whether each tuner did something bad to the car or not. they have no idea what the difference between an APR calibration and GIAC calibration are and how each affect the engine. its even as bad sometimes as this one service guy heard that some aftermarket chip blew up a guy's engine so all aftermarket chips must blow up engines.



Yeah, that sucks. I agree-- it's just an excuse to get out of the responsibility.

Regardless, if a tuner is charging a premium ($3k+) for a tune that someone else can do for $900, then there should be some incentive. Engine and powertrain coverage should be enough to get people to bite.

What about something like an "APR Sport Package" that would be a $3k dealer installed option which included the software. In turn, dealers that offered the install had to be part of the APR warranty program. You and the participating dealers can have pre-set parameters of what's covered and what's not. Yea, it would take leg work to start it up, but the end game would be win/win for everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this how Dinan does it?

[Keith@APR]

Yeah, that sucks. I agree-- it's just an excuse to get out of the responsibility.

Regardless, if a tuner is charging a premium ($3k+) for a tune that someone else can do for $900, then there should be some incentive. Engine and powertrain coverage should be enough to get people to bite.

What about something like an "APR Sport Package" that would be a $3k dealer installed option which included the software. In turn, dealers that offered the install had to be part of the APR warranty program. You and the participating dealers can have pre-set parameters of what's covered and what's not. Yea, it would take leg work to start it up, but the end game would be win/win for everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this how Dinan does it?

Yep! You've got it. This is the Dinan model as is referred to in the industry. Stasis is doing the same.

We are still going down the road of official OEM support as we feel there may be opportunity. Once we've beaten that horse till we run out of creativity, we plan to address our own warranty.

[S4Olympics]

The motor was made for 400hp. This 3.0 will be used in many audis in the future, and it will come stock with 400 hp via running more boost. The engine only experiences more force under wide open throttle. If you are cruising on the highway, there is no difference. So if 10% of your driving is to the floor acceleration, then yeah during that 10% of your driving you have a bit more wear and tear.
This charger is efficient and produces less heat than a turbo though. Pushing 430 hp with a turbo would cause more harm than using this new charger.

burns less oil than a turbo,
turbos raise the exhaust temperature pretty extreme (hard on oil temps)
turbos raise the inlet temperature more as well (hence large intercoolers needed)
but yes turbos are efficient. Although Audi claims they tried both this charger and a twin turbo design, and the charger gave better hp/tq/gas mileage overall...so they went with it.

there are 2 mtm choices...one hits 21 psi, the other 15ish. check the website. So you can do a mid hp tune of around 380hp

Owning a tunned twin turbo, I can agree with you about everything except for the last part (turbo=more efficient).

Audi seems to be getting better mpg with their S4 which is heavier and produces more power than the 335i.

Turbo is really not reliable, and oil temps are a HUGE issue for us.
I can't push the car around an autocross track if I am running a high HP tune (380whp) because my oil temps would jump to 270 degrees in a matter of minutes in 60-70 degree weather.

I don't think this will be too much of an issue with the charged S4.

Also, the tunes are VERY aggressive and throw hidden error codes that the dealer can pick up on unless you have a scanner to clear them (this is a must).

So, my questions for MTM:

How do you deal with warranty issues?
Does this leave any traces in the ECU even if you take out the tune before going into the dealer?

Are the cars throwing any error codes?
If yes, what are they?

What options do we have as far as power and as far as disabling the tune/boost?

So you know where I am coming from:
I currently own a JB3 (juice box 3) that I can install in 20 minutes.
I have 10 choices for Map settings all from within the car.
(You can change boost before starting the car via the gas pedal...if you want map 3, you press the gas down 3 times, if you want map 7, you press the pedal down 7 times, and if you want all signals to bypass the tune, you hold the gas pedal down for 5 seconds and you go to stock).

Where do you guys stand with this?


My main concern with a tune (and it should be everyone else's main concern as well), is dealer detection and error codes.

Please tell me what MTM has done to address this "issue".


BTW.
When you post up HP and Torque numbers, it would make more sense to post them in WHEEL HP and WHEEL TQ since that is what you see on your dyno screen, than posting up higher numbers that dont make it to the ground.

It would be much easier to understand what your product delivers if you post WHP/TQ since we will be dynoing our cars and not correcting for drivetrain loss.



Noob question (taking the easy way)...what is stock PSI for the B8 S4?

Does anyone have any STOCK Dynos and MTM Dynos?
[up]

[S4Olympics]

Soo true. Why should I have to listen to a lecture from a service manager because he sees exhaust on my 99xxx mile car, thats in for an ABS light [confused]

I would love to see AOA work with tuners, like BMW does.

BMW does NOT work with tuners, sorry.

If BMW sees a flash or piggy, even if it's DINAN, kiss your warranty goodbye.

They were "partners" with DINAN for a very short time until DINAN started to play around with the N54 engine and problems such as fuel pump (totally BMW's fault) and blown turbos started springing up.

BMW will NOT support any tune other than their own "BMW Performance Tune" that JUST came out months ago, however, it costs thousands and a fraction of what Proceed and Juice Box, and even DINAN give. (I think 30whp for $2k??)


So the route N54 tuners like myself are taking is: get a JB3 or Proceed and a Scanner. Any problems arise, you clear all codes, take out the tune, and bring your car in for warranty service.
NO ONE brings a car in with a tune of any sort unless they know the dealer is not looking for a tune (such as when going in for an oil change or tire change).

[riegeraudi]

I was reading from the Nissan GTR that Nissan uses the black box to void warranties in regards to modifications so I was wondering the same thing if Audi can use the info from the black box to void warranties? From what I understand the Nissan black boxes are pretty advanced, wonder if Audi is the same. This way they don't have to look for different coding that is hidden.
If the black box can store say a 0-60 time than that would be pretty good indication.

[2001A6]

BMW does NOT work with tuners, sorry.

If BMW sees a flash or piggy, even if it's DINAN, kiss your warranty goodbye.

They were "partners" with DINAN for a very short time until DINAN started to play around with the N54 engine and problems such as fuel pump (totally BMW's fault) and blown turbos started springing up.

BMW will NOT support any tune other than their own "BMW Performance Tune" that JUST came out months ago, however, it costs thousands and a fraction of what Proceed and Juice Box, and even DINAN give. (I think 30whp for $2k??)


So the route N54 tuners like myself are taking is: get a JB3 or Proceed and a Scanner. Any problems arise, you clear all codes, take out the tune, and bring your car in for warranty service.
NO ONE brings a car in with a tune of any sort unless they know the dealer is not looking for a tune (such as when going in for an oil change or tire change).


O, damn. My bad, I guess I really havent paid much attention to BMW lately.
Most of my interest in BMW was pre E90 generation, which would explain that.


And really, 30whp for 2k..... [o_o]

[NoTec]

Owning a tunned twin turbo, I can agree with you about everything except for the last part (turbo=more efficient).
I'm not sure but he may have been referring to the turbo's efficiency vs the supercharger's efficiency and not gas mileage. Turbo's are generally a more efficient method of forced induction because they don't rob power from the car. Some superchargers have to produce 200hp to boost and engine's output 100hp. Of course you may have already known this.

Audi seems to be getting better mpg with their S4 which is heavier and produces more power than the 335i.
Newer design with arguably better engineering. I'd expect the next generation 3-series competitor to be more efficient than the B8 S4.

Turbo is really not reliable, and oil temps are a HUGE issue for us.
I can't push the car around an autocross track if I am running a high HP tune (380whp) because my oil temps would jump to 270 degrees in a matter of minutes in 60-70 degree weather.
BMW supplies an M3 for this exact reason. [>_<] j/k

I don't think this will be too much of an issue with the charged S4.
It may become an issue if the B8 S4 does not have the cooling capacity to handle a 100hp increase for extended track use.


Also, the tunes are VERY aggressive and throw hidden error codes that the dealer can pick up on unless you have a scanner to clear them (this is a must).

So, my questions for MTM:

How do you deal with warranty issues?
Does this leave any traces in the ECU even if you take out the tune before going into the dealer?

Are the cars throwing any error codes?
If yes, what are they?

What options do we have as far as power and as far as disabling the tune/boost?

So you know where I am coming from:
I currently own a JB3 (juice box 3) that I can install in 20 minutes.
I have 10 choices for Map settings all from within the car.
(You can change boost before starting the car via the gas pedal...if you want map 3, you press the gas down 3 times, if you want map 7, you press the pedal down 7 times, and if you want all signals to bypass the tune, you hold the gas pedal down for 5 seconds and you go to stock).

Where do you guys stand with this?


My main concern with a tune (and it should be everyone else's main concern as well), is dealer detection and error codes.

Please tell me what MTM has done to address this "issue".


BTW.
When you post up HP and Torque numbers, it would make more sense to post them in WHEEL HP and WHEEL TQ since that is what you see on your dyno screen, than posting up higher numbers that dont make it to the ground.

It would be much easier to understand what your product delivers if you post WHP/TQ since we will be dynoing our cars and not correcting for drivetrain loss.



Noob question (taking the easy way)...what is stock PSI for the B8 S4?

Does anyone have any STOCK Dynos and MTM Dynos?
[up]I'll leave the rest for the MTM rep to answer.




BMW does NOT work with tuners, sorry.

If BMW sees a flash or piggy, even if it's DINAN, kiss your warranty goodbye.

They were "partners" with DINAN for a very short time until DINAN started to play around with the N54 engine and problems such as fuel pump (totally BMW's fault) and blown turbos started springing up.

BMW will NOT support any tune other than their own "BMW Performance Tune" that JUST came out months ago, however, it costs thousands and a fraction of what Proceed and Juice Box, and even DINAN give. (I think 30whp for $2k??)


So the route N54 tuners like myself are taking is: get a JB3 or Proceed and a Scanner. Any problems arise, you clear all codes, take out the tune, and bring your car in for warranty service.
NO ONE brings a car in with a tune of any sort unless they know the dealer is not looking for a tune (such as when going in for an oil change or tire change).
Some dealers are selective. I have a colleague who is a BMW tech and could care less what mods are on a vehicle he is working on. If the part that is without a doubt causing the malfunction an aftermarket product installed by the owner, he has no choice but to alert the shop foreman and service manager. He's worked on HPFP and turbos non stop in the 335 and never checks for any form of aftermarket product. He did inform me that other older techs WILL rat an owner out if they see anything that isn't "right." By not "right," I mean piggy-back ecus, any fault relating to performance enhancers, and modified emissions systems (removing cats or pre-cats). So it all boils down to who works on your car and what the problem is.

I've also been told that Dinan picks up warranty coverage for any failure directly related to their part/parts. This is the reason for their continued astronomical fees.

[AAAA]

Turbo is really not reliable, and oil temps are a HUGE issue for us.
I can't push the car around an autocross track if I am running a high HP tune (380whp) because my oil temps would jump to 270 degrees in a matter of minutes in 60-70 degree weather.

uhhh, that's a bmw specific problem. I have an 02 twin turbo 6 that still has journal bearing turbos and running ~475awhp-500awhp and I can run it ragged and my shit doesn't go over 235ish degrees, even in 90 degree weather. and my car doesn't even have an oil cooler. audi has more experience in turbo cars, hence why they run so well and are plentiful. hopefully the supercharged car won't be any different.

[L0U]

I read, or maybe it was in a utube interview, stock boost peaks 11.6psi. chager can produce 21psi, but bypasses the extra.

[mtmspeed]

So, my questions for MTM:

How do you deal with warranty issues?
Does this leave any traces in the ECU even if you take out the tune before going into the dealer?

Are the cars throwing any error codes?
If yes, what are they?

What options do we have as far as power and as far as disabling the tune/boost?

So you know where I am coming from:
I currently own a JB3 (juice box 3) that I can install in 20 minutes.
I have 10 choices for Map settings all from within the car.
(You can change boost before starting the car via the gas pedal...if you want map 3, you press the gas down 3 times, if you want map 7, you press the pedal down 7 times, and if you want all signals to bypass the tune, you hold the gas pedal down for 5 seconds and you go to stock).

Where do you guys stand with this?


My main concern with a tune (and it should be everyone else's main concern as well), is dealer detection and error codes.

Please tell me what MTM has done to address this "issue".


BTW.
When you post up HP and Torque numbers, it would make more sense to post them in WHEEL HP and WHEEL TQ since that is what you see on your dyno screen, than posting up higher numbers that dont make it to the ground.

It would be much easier to understand what your product delivers if you post WHP/TQ since we will be dynoing our cars and not correcting for drivetrain loss.



Noob question (taking the easy way)...what is stock PSI for the B8 S4?

Does anyone have any STOCK Dynos and MTM Dynos?
[up]

You would need to get that info from the MTM importer at hoppen motorsport but he may not have more info than what MTM puts up on their website. Unfortunately there is not a direct MTM rep to answer some of these posts, some people post positive things about MTM and some post negative comments, either way there is no one on here from MTM to defend their work. I can say that my past experiences have been that MTM always advertises conservative numbers, I personally haven't come accross numbers that couldn't be backed up.

[riegeraudi]

Someone with the MTM tune race a 335i with the JB3 and put it up on youtube win or lose so we can see what it can do or even against an RS4.

[L0U]

jb3 might edge it by a little, but after 5000 miles it won't anymore. Short lifespan on the ultra tweaked turbo 335s.

[bogdan_mb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ge84DQzqD8# S4 B8 MTM 430 hp DSG vs M3 E92 6-speed manual

[KReddy05]

mtmspeed, is there an option for a US warranty? I see that MTM offers a warranty for Europe...

[mtmspeed]

Info for warranty can be answered by
http://hoppenmotorsport.com/

[F16HTON]

A warranty is just an insurance policy...modding your car is risk, that risk also happens to be part of the excitement and euphoria that comes with it.

It is not reasonable to ask a dealer to warranty something if you know that your actions have caused it to fail...

By law, a vehicles existing warranty cannot be voided by any aftermarket modifications, unless those modifications directly lead to the failure of the part in question.

All warrantys that are offered after the fact by dealers are nothing more than a service contract, underwritten by some insurance company, those contracts are not free, the cost is always factored into the pricing.

[calvin1.8t]

when you think about it, 45,000 for the s4 then another 3500 for the chip, you have an m3 killer for under 50 grand. that isnt bad at all. the thing is already a rocket stock. ive driven an r8 and an s4 and i like the s4 better because its such a sleeper and it so fucken quick. the sport diff is amazing in it. is there an exhaust for it yet?

[NWS4Guy]

when you think about it, 45,000 for the s4 then another 3500 for the chip, you have an m3 killer for under 50 grand. that isnt bad at all. the thing is already a rocket stock. ive driven an r8 and an s4 and i like the s4 better because its such a sleeper and it so fucken quick. the sport diff is amazing in it. is there an exhaust for it yet?

Any week now...


http://www.stratmosphere.com/s4_b8.htm

[S4-Tommy]

Hopefully soon. They announced it months ago...

[mtmspeed]

MTM has three variations of exhausts...Quad tip, Quad tip valved, black oval tip valved...and yes they are expensive.

[NWS4Guy]

MTM has three variations of exhausts...Quad tip, Quad tip valved, black oval tip valved...and yes they are expensive.
Sound clips by chance?

[calvin1.8t]

MTM has three variations of exhausts...Quad tip, Quad tip valved, black oval tip valved...and yes they are expensive.

oh jesus. my ears are already ejaculating ear cum

[aherl83c6h]

Hi MTMSPEED, I courtesly ask for you intervention in this thread (that I started) : http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323748 : there are some odd things to clarify...

Also, I ask if there is a video for the installation of the MTM M-CANTRONIC for the new S4-B8...I saw on the net a video of MTM module installation, but for another car...

I have the installation instrctions (PDF), that the MTM representative kindly sent me, but this document is not too clear for me (i'm really not practical...)...

thanks,

Fab

[NWS4Guy]

I'd just PM him if you haven't already.

[s-4man]

Yes 4.6 seconds vs. 5.1

It becomes a match for the RS4 acceleration pretty much.


it does 0-60 in 4.6 stock.

[mtmspeed]

Hi MTMSPEED, I courtesly ask for you intervention in this thread (that I started) : http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323748 : there are some odd things to clarify...

Also, I ask if there is a video for the installation of the MTM M-CANTRONIC for the new S4-B8...I saw on the net a video of MTM module installation, but for another car...

I have the installation instrctions (PDF), that the MTM representative kindly sent me, but this document is not too clear for me (i'm really not practical...)...

thanks,

Fab

Yes, the graph explainations seem very confusing. The graph curves are however almost identical to Abt Sportslines graph. The advertising regulations in Germany are EXTREMELY strict and MTM always advertises conservative #s. So for me, if they say it puts down 430, I expect nothing less. I have an S4 getting this system in a few weeks. I will post before and after Dynojet pulls and clear this up as soon as we can get it on the rollers.

I wish we could get an official view from MTM on these things but they spend more time tuning and less lurking on the forums[:D]

I posted this thread to let everyone know it is available and then got flamed for not being an official 'expert' on the product...I AM NOT THE MTM DISTRIBUTOR!

As for the installation, it is quite a bit less involved than the TDI in the video and the instructions are pretty clear.

[mtmspeed]

Sound clips by chance?

negative

[Keith@APR]

I wish we could get an official view from MTM on these things but they spend more time tuning and less lurking on the forums[:D]

hehe, I am not neglecting any product development to post on forums, APR just feels that forum interaction is good for the community and there fore part of my job is to post on forums. I think MTM just doesn't have enough customer service staff to stay in touch with their customers.[;)]

Its nice of you to help them out though and I'll stay off your thread now.

[mtmspeed]

hehe, I am not neglecting any product development to post on forums, APR just feels that forum interaction is good for the community and there fore part of my job is to post on forums. I think MTM just doesn't have enough customer service staff to stay in touch with their customers.[;)]

Its nice of you to help them out though and I'll stay off your thread now.

LOL! I knew you'd get that! I totally agree, The landscape of this business is changing very quickly. Perception is 95% reality and they need to do a better job of defending their work! I think they have the outlook of "we don't want to dignify the rumors with a response"... I wish I could pass on more, I sell their products but I'm not privy to 100% of the Information. I can only pass on what I do on a local level when it becomes available.(at my own expense of course)

[B8Lover]

Specs...I need specs.

[AvantB8]

I have two questions.
It has been shown by the reputable tuners that the STOCK S4 is underrated and that it actually has closer to ~360-380 HP crank. So, the boost you provide is about a 1/2 of what it looks like (assuming the numbers are at the crank). Is that correct? Do you have any stock vs. tuned dynos showing the improvements?

Second question is about the price since I am coming off the BMW and as I recall the similar tume (Proceede) cost <$1500 when it came out first and it went down since then. Why does your product cost 2x of theirs?

Thanks!

[mtmspeed]

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm.jpg

[NoTec]

I have two questions.
It has been shown by the reputable tuners that the STOCK S4 is underrated and that it actually has closer to ~360-380 HP crank. So, the boost you provide is about a 1/2 of what it looks like (assuming the numbers are at the crank). Is that correct? Do you have any stock vs. tuned dynos showing the improvements?

Second question is about the price since I am coming off the BMW and as I recall the similar tume (Proceede) cost <$1500 when it came out first and it went down since then. Why does your product cost 2x of theirs?

Thanks!

I'm gonna take a guess here..... You've only read the original post and based your questions from that one?

To answer them anyway though: 1.No 2.No 3.He just said he is not the MTM rep. He does not represent MTM nor does he have control over what they charge. Search MTM here on the forums and you will see that nearly "ALL" of there products are near double the price of anything available here in the States. If you want MTM, you don't question the price, you buy it.

[mtmspeed]

MTM is no different than Abt, AMG, Techart, AC Schnitzer....Their one of the Big Dogs...it is what it is.

[Arin@APR]

Yes, the graph explainations seem very confusing. The graph curves are however almost identical to Abt Sportslines graph. The advertising regulations in Germany are EXTREMELY strict and MTM always advertises conservative #s. So for me, if they say it puts down 430, I expect nothing less. I have an S4 getting this system in a few weeks. I will post before and after Dynojet pulls and clear this up as soon as we can get it on the rollers.

When I looked at the MAHA calculated engine power of the MTM cantronic chipped B8 the results were very similar to what they advertise and what ABT advertises. I don't doubt that at all.

What I'm curious to see is what the vehicle puts down completely stock on the same exact MAHA dyno. I'd like to see what it produces at the wheels, and what it calculates to the crank.

It appears tuners are advertising Audi factory numbers for stock power, and their calculated power for gains. If Audi has underrated the engine, then the difference between stock and chipped will appear much greater.

One forum member was able to get a chipped MTM graph. Would you be able to get the same graph for the vehicle completely stock?

[AvantB8]

It appears tuners are advertising Audi factory numbers for stock power, and their calculated power for gains. If Audi has underrated the engine, then the difference between stock and chipped will appear much greater.

One forum member was able to get a chipped MTM graph. Would you be able to get the same graph for the vehicle completely stock?

Exactly Arin,

I was asking the same...are the gains really 100 HP as MTM advertizes, or a half of it?

I have seen the 320 HP stock dyno on the S4, which would put it at over 380 HP crank, which would make these gains less than 50 HP...

[aherl83c6h]

thanks MTMSPEED for your intervention...Arin posted the feeling that i think all of us share : we WANT to see a graph BEFORE/AFTER of the SAME veichle, with the SAME dyno (and i still wait for at least an opinion on the fact the the graph i posted tells 44% drivetrain loss....)

until then, my hard earned money will stay in my pockets...

Fab

[S4-Tommy]

thanks MTMSPEED for your intervention...Arin posted the feeling that i think all of us share : we WANT to see a graph BEFORE/AFTER of the SAME veichle, with the SAME dyno (and i still wait for at least an opinion on the fact the the graph i posted tells 44% drivetrain loss....)

until then, my hard earned money will stay in my pockets...

Fab

So does mine!

[L0U]

I'd install it for 2k, but 4k is beyond what I am willing to spend on this tweak.