Zapco to JL

[B6JoeS4]

Hey guys, my friend (kvn1691 on the zine )has a B5 S4 and the current system is as follows:

Panasonic Strada head unit - 2 years old

Installed by previous owner in 2003:
Boston Acoustics Kick panel speakers
Two 10" Orion subs in a ported box.
subs powered by a Zapco 1100M at 2ohms
there are also two Zapco 350/2 amps. i know one of them powers the Boston acoustic speakers and the other one probably powers aftermarket door speakers

all the amps are hooked up via Zapco's SymbiLink 16volt system

so the system sounds really bad. it is really showing its age and abuse it has taken over the years. one of the 350/2 amps is messed up. the system overall sounds very distorted and worn out.

so we are looking to start completely fresh:
We will keep the existing head unit and speakers

~Subs:
2x JL 10w7's
2x JL HD 750/1

~to replace the two 350/2 amps:
1x JL HD 600/4

~to replace the Boston Acoustics kick panel speakers:
Two JL coaxials. Most likely the Evolution C5 6.5" coaxial

~I plan on using the existing wiring. it looks to be 4 gauge going to the 1000/1 and maybe like 8 gauge to each 350/2

also, what kind of door speakers are in this car. i would like to replace the front door speakers but when i look it up on crutchfield, it says there are only tweeters.

~he had the factory bose system to begin with but there is absolutely no bose components left in the car.

so what are your thoughts? the idea here is to make the system sound new and fresh. good sound quality that still hits hard as fuck.


here is a pic of the current setup:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1898&pictureid=6459

[koolade9]

...stop right there... save yourself some money, and just replace the blown speaker(s), which is most likely the cause of your distortion, then re-tune the system... Those zapco amps are solid! and combined with the symbilink, makes for a very clean setup... If you already have a kickpanel setup, use the good 350/2 (assuming one is bad) to power the front stage, and don't run the rears for now...(you just might like it [;)])

The only thing that could be "worn out" would be the speakers if one is actually blown. I've run 10+yr old audio components in cars without any problems...

I would start out with a little tuning to see what exactly isn't functioning properly...

[B6JoeS4]

yes i know that zapco is a very high end company and they make very solid well built amps. but, we need more power.

another big issue is the space. the first owner of the car had the system put in when the car was new and now the new owner (my friend) wants the trunk to be more usable. thats why i was thinking it would be better to get new amps. i would just mount them in the corner somewhere

the new amps will have more power and they will be digital. as well as the subs, i think digital for the inside speakers will dramatically improve the sound quality.

also, the system was tuned by Redline Audio here in illinois. they are one of the top 50 installers in the nation (so they say) and after tuning, it sounded better, but not even as good as my stock bose in my car (except for the bass obviously)

i have noticed that the zapco amps give off a lot of heat so alternate mounting does not seem to be an option.

[koolade9]

I'm just trying to give you some honest advice here... but you're going from a 100wrms/ch amp to a (rated) 150wrms/ch... Your existing setup should be blowing you away right now...the fact that a factory bose "sounds better" to you, means there is a serious problem. And if it sounds distorted, it's still most likely blown speakers...not a result of "not enough power". btw, the speakers in the car most likely blew from distortion because of too much power.

Bottom line, you're probably not going to ever hear the difference, since you've already got your mind made up on spending $ on new gear... but with new (not blown) speakers, your existing setup will sound just as good, if not better, then what you're trying to switch to. Spend your money on the install instead...if you need more trunk room, spend your money having a different amp rack made to give you more room...if the subs sound bad, spend your $ on a well designed ported enclosure instead of blaming the woofers.

...and fyi...those "digital" amps from JL, are class Ds using a microprocessor (digital) for the switching. It's still an analog signal going into the amp, and an analog signal leaving the amp. The symbilink setup from zapco will still induce less noise [;)]

[B6JoeS4]

ok.

for now we will replace all of the speakers.

the two subs will be replaced with the 10w7 and then the kick pannel speakers will be replaced with the jl evolution c5 coaxials. then, the system will be re-tuned.

sound like a good plan?

[koolade9]

the two subs will be replaced with the 10w7

Are the subs blown?


then the kick pannel speakers will be replaced with the jl evolution c5 coaxials. then, the system will be re-tuned.

sound like a good plan?

Use your balance/fade to determine which speakers are actually blown.

And since you're having a shop tune it...take it somewhere where they actually know what they're doing. You can easily blow speakers with that much power...

[B6JoeS4]

Are the subs blown?



Use your balance/fade to determine which speakers are actually blown.

And since you're having a shop tune it...take it somewhere where they actually know what they're doing. You can easily blow speakers with that much power...

yes, both dust caps are cracked and broken

well i will do the install of the speaker myself and then take it right to them to tune it. no sense in paying them to do something so easy. i have built custom home speakers and subs before and i did a full jl setup in my moms car. i know how to install it but with tuning, im not so good.


i know from my keen ear that the box/subs are tuned to somewhere in the neighborhood of 38-45hz.

inside the car, it sound as if it completely lacks 60-85hz range. no midbass whatsoever. then on the other end it is missing the highs as if there are no tweeters.

i dont get it[confused]

[koolade9]

yes, both dust caps are cracked and broken

Gotcha, just making sure [;)]

Keep in mind that ported enclosures are pretty driver-specific, so check the ported requirements spec for the 10w7 and see if the box you have will work... Subs in the wrong ported enclosure can sound aweful...


i know from my keen ear that the box/subs are tuned to somewhere in the neighborhood of 38-45hz.

If you really want to find out, play a test cd with sin waves on each track at 1hz increments. Play through a 30hz to 50hz range, and the frequency where the sub excursion is least (it will increase excursion above and below the tuning freq) will be the sub/enclosure's tuning frequency. Wear earplugs, and just pay attention to the physical movement.


inside the car, it sound as if it completely lacks 60-85hz range. no midbass whatsoever. then on the other end it is missing the highs as if there are no tweeters.

i dont get it[confused]

This is characteristic of people spending a ton of money on lots of power and expensive speakers...lack of midbass. I'm not sure what other speakers you have in your front stage (anything in the doors?) but the mistake most people make is setting high xover points (i.e. 120hz +) for their front stage because they can 'turn it up louder'. They basically take the midbass out of the equation and it ends up sounding like crap. The sub/misbass split should be around 60-80hz(depending on your midbass drivers), the midbass/midrange split should be around 150-300hz (depending on drivers), and mid/tweet from 2.5k - 6k (again, depending on drivers).

If you're running coaxials in the kickpanels, you may want to consider running mid-bass drivers in the doors...

[B6JoeS4]

Gotcha, just making sure [;)]

Keep in mind that ported enclosures are pretty driver-specific, so check the ported requirements spec for the 10w7 and see if the box you have will work... Subs in the wrong ported enclosure can sound aweful...



If you really want to find out, play a test cd with sin waves on each track at 1hz increments. Play through a 30hz to 50hz range, and the frequency where the sub excursion is least (it will increase excursion above and below the tuning freq) will be the sub/enclosure's tuning frequency. Wear earplugs, and just pay attention to the physical movement.



This is characteristic of people spending a ton of money on lots of power and expensive speakers...lack of midbass. I'm not sure what other speakers you have in your front stage (anything in the doors?) but the mistake most people make is setting high xover points (i.e. 120hz +) for their front stage because they can 'turn it up louder'. They basically take the midbass out of the equation and it ends up sounding like crap. The sub/misbass split should be around 60-80hz(depending on your midbass drivers), the midbass/midrange split should be around 150-300hz (depending on drivers), and mid/tweet from 2.5k - 6k (again, depending on drivers).

If you're running coaxials in the kickpanels, you may want to consider running mid-bass drivers in the doors...


I have the bass mekanik one that goes form 20-99hz so i will give that a try.

im pretty sure he has stuff installed in the doors. there are two 350/2 amps and one goes to the kick pannels. so i am assuming the other goes to door speakers. he doesnt know because the car was bought with all of this stuff in it allready

do you know what size the speaker s are in the front of the b5? crutchfield says it is just tweeters so...... yeah
tomorrow i will play around with it for a while. ill see if i can get anything out of it. im also going to check if the kick panels are blown

ill send you a pm with what i find out

thanks for the help! repped[up]