FAQ: VR6 -12V & 24V Info sharing [Archive] - Page 2

antoanS4

08-13-2009, 08:42 PM

Well I'm not going boost at the moment, I can only afford the swap. So shes going to run NA for the next few months.

I'm sending out my Vr6 harness along with my S4 harness to Issam this week so he can work his magic electronically so I can get the motor to run without having Christmas lights on my dash board.

If your asking for a percentage, roughly 60%, the modified harness and some parts is whats left to do.

Heres a a pic thats a few weeks old.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/Enviousvw/IMG_0253.jpg

What motor r u using???

NYEuroTuner

08-13-2009, 08:51 PM

What motor r u using???

I took Issam's advice and I bought a 24v Vr6.

lol I still have to send him my harness, been working doubles with almost no time to myself.

Side note..

Issam Im sending this shizz this week brotha. [up]

antoanS4

08-13-2009, 09:18 PM

Nice,are u gonna use standalone or keeping the stock ECU

Wizard-of-OD

08-13-2009, 10:37 PM

Issam Im sending this shizz this week brotha. [up]
Take your time....LOL
I gotta take care of a very important person this week and next week [;)]

antoanS4

08-14-2009, 12:36 AM

can u run a 3.6 motor from the touareg

Wizard-of-OD

08-14-2009, 12:37 AM

can u run a 3.6 motor from the touareg
Yes you can
you will just need a custom intake manifold as getting that FSI to work in a B5 will be a complete PITA

viperbl

08-14-2009, 01:22 AM

Yes you can
you will just need a custom intake manifold as getting that FSI to work in a B5 will be a complete PITA

[;)] [:d]

NYEuroTuner

08-14-2009, 07:31 AM

Nice,are u gonna use standalone or keeping the stock ECU

Stock ECU for now, that's why I am gonna be sending the harnesses to Issam so he can mesh the two to work together.

In the coming months I'll talk to Issam for a Stand alone, at the moment, My S going to be running NA..

onemoremile

08-16-2009, 11:41 PM

The fact that the 12v VR6 still has timing chains vs. a belt I would not recommend for any one to swap from something with a belt to chains. The timing chain problem has been notorious in the 12v VR6 world. Unlike a belt which you can easily take a look and see how the belt looks... timing chain (and guides) is nearly a half day of just to see if they are ok or not. No thanks. That's main reason I traded my MK3 97 Jetta VR6 for a B5 2001 S4.

Yes I love the sound of the VR6 and I miss it bad but really how often are you going to need the extra room to swap your turbos out? To do all the work for a more space seems like a waste even if it slightly cheaper for the amount of power... We also need to keep in mind most emission standard make it illegal to swap in a older engine in a newer car. I know it is here in Washington state. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure most people are just going to be doing this for a track only car.

I love seeing people trying new things but this might be going in the wrong direction.... that's just my $0.02

Real picture, real mileage and speed, stock chain, normal maintenance. 94 Jetta GLX VR6. It was an autocross points leader at 268,000 miles.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1174jetta_in_vail_small.JPG

RedRocketS4

08-17-2009, 06:48 AM

for information, what are the best spark plugs to run on the 24v vr6 n/a and then turbo?

NYEuroTuner

08-18-2009, 12:37 PM

I would assume NGK's?

RedRocketS4

08-18-2009, 01:28 PM

^^haha, which NGK's? the BKR6E's ($2.50 each), BKR7E's ($2.50 each), or the ones that come from the factory ($10 each).

Pete.McP

08-18-2009, 07:34 PM

The bellhousing adapter is an OEM part, correct? If so, why do you need a custom flywheel and starter? Shouldn't there be an OEM starter and flywheel that would work?

Big Boost

08-18-2009, 08:15 PM

I believe the factory adaptor is meant for the FWD transmissions and the unit used in the Touareg/Q7. It is needed for this application to bolt up the VR6 longitudinally to the 01E transmission in the B5 chassis.

Wizard-of-OD

08-19-2009, 10:51 AM

The bellhousing adapter is an OEM part, correct? If so, why do you need a custom flywheel and starter? Shouldn't there be an OEM starter and flywheel that would work?
There is an OEM starter and an OEM flywheel.

OEM Starter motor - $650+ USD
OEM Flywheel - 35lb dual mass unit and costs about $500 USD

If we thought it would be cheaper to offer OEM parts,trust me we would have....

Pete.McP

08-19-2009, 04:13 PM

It is needed for this application to bolt up the VR6 longitudinally to the 01E transmission in the B5 chassis.

Thanks, I figured that out already. [wrench]

I believe the factory adaptor is meant for the FWD transmissions and the unit used in the Touareg/Q7.

There is an OEM starter and an OEM flywheel.

OEM Starter motor - $650+ USD
OEM Flywheel - 35lb dual mass unit and costs about $500 USD

If we thought it would be cheaper to offer OEM parts,trust me we would have....

Is the starter and flywheel out of the Touareg/Q7?

Wizard-of-OD

08-19-2009, 05:46 PM

Is the starter and flywheel out of the Touareg/Q7?
I apologize in advance if this comes out the wrong way but I am not going to answer that.
We put alot of R&D into this set up so if you are interested in one then simply send me a PM or email but this thread is not for me to tell you where to outsource us on parts from.

Thanks.

Pete.McP

08-19-2009, 07:43 PM

I apologize in advance if this comes out the wrong way but I am not going to answer that.
We put alot of R&D into this set up so if you are interested in one then simply send me a PM or email but this thread is not for me to tell you where to outsource us on parts from.

Thanks.

Fair enough. I understand where you're coming from.

jibberjive

08-19-2009, 08:45 PM

outsource us on parts from.

English is such a wierd language. If you focus on those last 5 words it seems crazy, yet somehow it makes perfect sense ha. Sorry for the random post

mys4.org

08-20-2009, 09:42 AM

^ lol

I am currently doing this swap in my Daily Driven S4, and it will stay a Daily driven S4 when its finished.

Other than that, please don't turn this thread into a 2.7tt vs Vr6.

This is the Vr6 Swap FAQ Thread, not "state your opinion why this swap is bad thread"

;) Thanks.

Lets define FAQ... Facts and Questions. I was stating the facts (whether they were wrong or right) as I know them and asking serious questions. Sorry I stepped on you toe I did not know you were that sensitive. I'm not trying to start something but what I believe I said in my last post needs to be carefully considered. Especial regarding putting in a older engine in a newer car. I see the 12v VR6 still being a problem. If my memory is correct the 12v VR6 production stopped in 1999. How are you guys getting around that legal issue? Or is everyone doing the 24v vr6?

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

wdbdy2000s4

08-20-2009, 10:05 AM

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

Depends on your goals. If you're trying to build a high-hp drag monster then it can be cheaper then a fully built s4 motor with GTs. If you're looking for anythign less then 550whp then I would just run RS6s with rods. Price also depends on your current setup. If you have ICs, a stage 3 clutch, DPs and other odds and ends then it will make an rs6 tubro swap more attractive. If you're bone stock then the VR swap can save you money over a bigger 2.7 turbo setup. You really need to outline your exact power goals and what you'll be using the car for. I'm sure Issam can chime in with a little more pricing info.

NYEuroTuner

08-20-2009, 10:14 AM

MyS4.org..^ Have you even read the first few pages of this thread at all? Or did you just read the last page and decide to post?

Take the time and read this entire thread and all its posts, and believe me you will have your answers.

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

MyS4.org,

034Motorsport has done this, USP Motorsports has a daily driven S4 Vrt, and almost a dozen tuners/owners are currently building vr6 S4s as we speak, believe me, if you visit 034's website, or PM issam, the amount of technical know how and R&D they put into this will amaze you.

No one is calling the Vr6 motor a gift from god, nor are any of us bashing the 2.7tt, who ever said this motor was a gift from god? lol

Again, read this thread, there are plenty of well known and respected 2.7tt tuners/owners that had great things to say about this swap on its benefits it provides along with their opinions.

Pete.McP

08-20-2009, 11:37 AM

mys4.org, everyone has to weigh things out for themselves. I find this swap very appealing. I've owned my fair share of VWs and Audis, as well as other cars with motor swaps. If you already have a lot of money tied up in your S4 and its running great, then yes, I don't see the point in swapping. But if you're starting from scratch, or have a blown motor, or a regular 2.8 A4/A6, and want to build a monster, there doesn't seem like a better way to do it. Used Vr6 motors are cheap, 01E's are cheap, and S4's with blown motors are also cheap, (good running 2.8 C5's and B5's are also very inexpensive, and I've seen good, clean, running B6's with 01E's for less than $10K) so why wouldn't you?!?

NYCVR6

08-21-2009, 07:24 AM

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/vr3-1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/vr1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/vr2.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/vr3.jpg

Sales@RAI

08-21-2009, 07:27 AM

Lets define FAQ... Facts and Questions. I was stating the facts (whether they were wrong or right) as I know them and asking serious questions. Sorry I stepped on you toe I did not know you were that sensitive. I'm not trying to start something but what I believe I said in my last post needs to be carefully considered. Especial regarding putting in a older engine in a newer car. I see the 12v VR6 still being a problem. If my memory is correct the 12v VR6 production stopped in 1999. How are you guys getting around that legal issue? Or is everyone doing the 24v vr6?

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

the 2.7T has so many more problems than a VR6. Timing chain guides? Big deal [confused]

onemoremile

08-21-2009, 08:34 AM

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

Power output has nothing to do with how long a timing chain or it's guides will last. The guides have normal maintenance just like our belts do. Ignore it and face the consequences. Mine hit redline every day and was a track star with over a quarter million miles. The S4 is now at 247k miles and the maintenance on it is night and day compared to the VR6. The 2.7t is like a stripper, it only works when you throw money at it.

Wizard-of-OD

08-21-2009, 09:26 AM

The 2.7t is like a stripper, it only works when you throw money at it.
Sad but true...

antoanS4

08-21-2009, 12:04 PM

NYCVR6

08-21-2009, 12:10 PM

Looking good, what turbo r u using

Thanks
Precision billet 6765

Big Boost

08-21-2009, 01:07 PM

Your install looks real good! What mods were required for the oil pan?

Wizard-of-OD

08-21-2009, 01:51 PM

Your install looks real good! What mods were required for the oil pan?
None [:)]
No mods to the oil pan or to the subframe.

NYCVR6

08-21-2009, 01:52 PM

None [:)]
No mods to the oil pan or to the subframe.

You need a different oil pan to clear.. My man here will help you out... Only if he gets me a intake flange asap![:D]

antoanS4

08-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Thanks
Precision billet 6765

built botton end? Do u think u would have full boost by?How much power r u specting

antoanS4

08-21-2009, 02:26 PM

I have a fully built bottom end with 3.0l stroke motor with RS6's, i would love to do this convertion but i already have a lot of money into this car,and the VR6 swap is a lot of money too

NYCVR6

08-21-2009, 02:58 PM

built botton end? Do u think u would have full boost by?How much power r u specting

Yea fully built motor... Power wise i dont know.. I had a vr6 with 670whp 7+ years back, so who knows. Im not so much a dyno number guy anyway.

sean1.8t

08-21-2009, 05:16 PM

You should really look into the vwvortex there are guys making 500whp with just head studs and rods. How does that amount to 6K? you don't need such a built engine to make that much power. I will try to find you the link for all the VWVORTEX guys that have what setup and how much power just so you can see how LITTLE Money they spent to get high numbers!

a guy in florida with an R32 was making 700whp on his stock motor with just a head spacer and rod bolts. stock rods, pistons, head and everything else

Wizard-of-OD

08-21-2009, 05:24 PM

a guy in florida with an R32 was making 700whp on his stock motor with just a head spacer and rod bolts. stock rods, pistons, head and everything else
I know some VR guys doing the same on 12V's but I would at the very least throw in some rods into that bitch.[:)]

Big Boost

08-21-2009, 07:18 PM

None [:)]
No mods to the oil pan or to the subframe.

He has the 24V, I have the 12V. Are there any mods required for the oil pan used for the 12V? Also, does anyone know if the VR6 was originally designed to be used as a diesel, thus the strong bottom end?

Wizard-of-OD

08-21-2009, 07:21 PM

He has the 24V, I have the 12V. Are there any mods required for the oil pan used for the 12V?
For this oil pan to be used on a 12V? No none
12V and 24V (2.8 & 3.2) have the same pan rail.So yes this oil pan will work for you.

Big Boost

08-21-2009, 07:57 PM

Is this the one you PM'd me about? If so, thanks!!

Wizard-of-OD

08-21-2009, 08:12 PM

Is this the one you PM'd me about? If so, thanks!!
Yup
let me know when you are ready ![:)]

bryzf1

08-21-2009, 08:19 PM

How many vr6 swaps have been done in the b6 chassis? I quickly read thru the entire thread but didn't come across it so I apologize if this has already been asked. Thanks

Caddy7

08-21-2009, 09:01 PM

I know some VR guys doing the same on 12V's but I would at the very least throw in some rods into that bitch.[:)]

Okay rods, but that is it!

[;)]

Big Boost

08-22-2009, 05:09 AM

Yup
let me know when you are ready ![:)]

I'm ready. Please PM me with the details, payment, etc.

Wizard-of-OD

08-22-2009, 01:36 PM

I'm ready. Please PM me with the details, payment, etc.

[up] You got it!

NetLogic

08-27-2009, 09:46 AM

How many vr6 swaps have been done in the b6 chassis? I quickly read thru the entire thread but didn't come across it so I apologize if this has already been asked. Thanks

A few pages back this is all I have seen on it.

has a swap for the b6 chassis been tried before???

Yes
not completed yet

NYCVR6

08-27-2009, 06:54 PM

Good luck to everyone who wants to do this.. I just want to go on the record for saying this... lol
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/1-37.jpg

Swapping out the intercooler, it doesnt fit.. Not the only thing.. [;)]

vincephan

08-27-2009, 08:07 PM

Due to the lack of info on B6 chassis swaps, i decided to email Issam with some questions. I figured some of my questions may be eventually asked and that the information in our emails may be useful to some of the viewers of this thread.

[REMOVED DUE TO ISSAM'S REQUEST]

I hope Issam doesnt mind me posting our email conversation but there are always people that are too scared to ask a certain question and one of them may have been mine.

As for me opting for the 3.6, there isnt really a replacement for displacement. The extra .4 liters might come in handy when you decide to stuff in a GT35R/Big turbo. What i wanna know is, "is it worth the trouble for the extra .4 displacement?"

Wizard-of-OD

08-28-2009, 03:32 PM

I hope Issam doesnt mind me posting our email conversation but there are always people that are too scared to ask a certain question and one of them may have been mine.

As for me opting for the 3.6, there isnt really a replacement for displacement. The extra .4 liters might come in handy when you decide to stuff in a GT35R/Big turbo. What i wanna know is, "is it worth the trouble for the extra .4 displacement?"
I actually do so in future please dont do that [:)]

Go with the 2.8 or 3.2 motor.

NYEuroTuner

08-29-2009, 09:02 AM

Good luck to everyone who wants to do this.. I just want to go on the record for saying this... lol

Swapping out the intercooler, it doesnt fit.. Not the only thing.. [;)]

Looks like your making some great progress, keep up the good work, you'll def be rolling around before me.. [up]

wdbdy2000s4

08-29-2009, 11:01 AM

Sad but true...

not when you have 43k miles and you run your turbos at the boost level they were intended for. You know that.[;)]

Rajan147

08-29-2009, 02:07 PM

NYCVR6

08-29-2009, 07:53 PM

Definitely a nice amount of room. But, before everyone pulls the trigger to jump on this bandwagon, i'll address exactly what i have dealt with thus far with this swap.. The "no brainer swap"... I'll make it simple with a list of what hasnt fit or worked out so well..

-Oil pan had to be changed to clear subframe
-Was told an R32 fuel rail will work, bought a brand new one, welded fittings, and it doesnt fit the 2.8 head. Trying to figure out another route
- One motor mount fit, the other wasnt even close, had to fabricate our own mount from scratch
- Valve cover didnt clear hood, was told to buy a toureg one which didnt clear either.. Hacked the oil filler neck off the brand new toureg valve cover, still 1.5" to close the hood.. Not sure where we're going from here with this yet.
- 034efi intake manifold flange does not fit a 2.8l head, it hits the alternator bracket.. Working on getting them to make the right one 3rd time around.
- Hood latch is no longer usable, hoop pins a must
- Radiator fans cant fit between motor and rad, need to find very thin fans to fit between intercooler and AC condenser.. Now impossible to fit a nice size FMIC.. Have to buy 3 thin electric fans..
- Must hack rad support inside to clear pulleys, and on top to clear belt tensioner and head
- 24v VR6 coil packs will hit hood with clips on, need to get custom wires and run external coil pack.
- Must make custom AC lines
- only siemans thin body style injectors fit 24v head
- bumper grills and such wont fit because everything is pushed forward now

That's all i can think of right now off the top of my head, but im gambling on more problems popping up. For those considering this, might want to make sure you have deep pockets and the car at a fully capable fabrication shop for all the cutting and welding. Big props to my friend Chris at C&M Performance for all the help, without someone like him on hand this would have been impossible.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/2222.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/222-1.jpg

pipe7284

08-29-2009, 08:08 PM

wow....and it all seemed so "no brainer" i guess if chris green or 034 guys can chime in on e what they did to resolve the issue you are having, thats if they ran into those same issues.

NYCVR6

08-29-2009, 08:13 PM

wow....and it all seemed so "no brainer" i guess if chris green or 034 guys can chime in on e what they did to resolve the issue you are having, thats if they ran into those same issues.

Chris runs no AC on that car, and his car has a 12v vr6 in it. That right there eliminates the hood issues, the coils clearing, the fan problems, fmic fitment, etc...

viperbl

08-30-2009, 03:22 AM

Keep up the good work NYCVR6 :)

I am sure all the headaches will be worth it in the end :D

andream88

08-30-2009, 03:45 AM

Chris runs no AC on that car, and his car has a 12v vr6 in it. That right there eliminates the hood issues, the coils clearing, the fan problems, fmic fitment, etc...

We should then ask 034 to engineer a custom set of engine mounts to run the AC on the 12v engine!
That seems to be the simplier route out there....

will175

08-30-2009, 03:55 AM

With you on that one.

wdbdy2000s4

08-30-2009, 05:03 AM

Definitely a nice amount of room. But, before everyone pulls the trigger to jump on this bandwagon, i'll address exactly what i have dealt with thus far with this swap.. The "no brainer swap"... I'll make it simple with a list of what hasnt fit or worked out so well..

-Oil pan had to be changed to clear subframe
-Was told an R32 fuel rail will work, bought a brand new one, welded fittings, and it doesnt fit the 2.8 head. Trying to figure out another route
- One motor mount fit, the other wasnt even close, had to fabricate our own mount from scratch
- Valve cover didnt clear hood, was told to buy a toureg one which didnt clear either.. Hacked the oil filler neck off the brand new toureg valve cover, still 1.5" to close the hood.. Not sure where we're going from here with this yet.
- 034efi intake manifold flange does not fit a 2.8l head, it hits the alternator bracket.. Working on getting them to make the right one 3rd time around.
- Hood latch is no longer usable, hoop pins a must
- Radiator fans cant fit between motor and rad, need to find very thin fans to fit between intercooler and AC condenser.. Now impossible to fit a nice size FMIC.. Have to buy 3 thin electric fans..
- Must hack rad support inside to clear pulleys, and on top to clear belt tensioner and head
- 24v VR6 coil packs will hit hood with clips on, need to get custom wires and run external coil pack.
- Must make custom AC lines
- only siemans thin body style injectors fit 24v head
- bumper grills and such wont fit because everything is pushed forward now

That's all i can think of right now off the top of my head, but im gambling on more problems popping up. For those considering this, might want to make sure you have deep pockets and the car at a fully capable fabrication shop for all the cutting and welding. Big props to my friend Chris at C&M Performance for all the help, without someone like him on hand this would have been impossible.

good work justin. I was gonna cry when you sold your GT setup but it's good to know you're still in "the game." haha

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 06:49 AM

good work justin. I was gonna cry when you sold your GT setup but it's good to know you're still in "the game." haha

[up][:D]

GURUMAN

08-30-2009, 07:28 AM

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/1-37.jpg

my favorite intercooler...

http://www.agtronicmotorsport.com/gallery/guruman_02/Guruman%20054.jpg

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 08:42 AM

my favorite intercooler...

Looks nice, but doesnt fit with the ac condenser and 2 electrical fans on the condenser. Im pretty sure the vibrant stuff is just ebay crap too, but im not sure. Love the way it looks though. Using a precision intercooler in the last pic with a garrett core, definitely a more quality piece.

Reich

08-30-2009, 08:58 AM

Wow I assume ther's an other 9 sec s4 coming along.
Like state above, Glad you're back with a big setup.
Nice work[up][hail]

NYEuroTuner

08-30-2009, 10:28 AM

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/issamabed/PHASE2.jpg

You can see the use of OEM motor mount brackets

Idk the pic issam posted shows it sitting pretty well, I think he was using our S4 mounts, NYCVR6 you seem to be using larger mounts..?

I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol

andream88

08-30-2009, 11:16 AM

Definitely a nice amount of room. But, before everyone pulls the trigger to jump on this bandwagon, i'll address exactly what i have dealt with thus far with this swap.. The "no brainer swap"... I'll make it simple with a list of what hasnt fit or worked out so well..

-Oil pan had to be changed to clear subframe
-Was told an R32 fuel rail will work, bought a brand new one, welded fittings, and it doesnt fit the 2.8 head. Trying to figure out another route
- One motor mount fit, the other wasnt even close, had to fabricate our own mount from scratch
- Valve cover didnt clear hood, was told to buy a toureg one which didnt clear either.. Hacked the oil filler neck off the brand new toureg valve cover, still 1.5" to close the hood.. Not sure where we're going from here with this yet.
- 034efi intake manifold flange does not fit a 2.8l head, it hits the alternator bracket.. Working on getting them to make the right one 3rd time around.
- Hood latch is no longer usable, hoop pins a must
- Radiator fans cant fit between motor and rad, need to find very thin fans to fit between intercooler and AC condenser.. Now impossible to fit a nice size FMIC.. Have to buy 3 thin electric fans..
- Must hack rad support inside to clear pulleys, and on top to clear belt tensioner and head
- 24v VR6 coil packs will hit hood with clips on, need to get custom wires and run external coil pack.
- Must make custom AC lines
- only siemans thin body style injectors fit 24v head
- bumper grills and such wont fit because everything is pushed forward now

That's all i can think of right now off the top of my head, but im gambling on more problems popping up. For those considering this, might want to make sure you have deep pockets and the car at a fully capable fabrication shop for all the cutting and welding. Big props to my friend Chris at C&M Performance for all the help, without someone like him on hand this would have been impossible.

Hey NYCVR6 could you measure the space you have between the water rad and the engine pulleys, please?
I'd like to know if there's the space to install high flow electric fans in there.

Cheers,
Andrea

JBM

08-30-2009, 11:18 AM

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 11:24 AM

Hey NYCVR6 could you measure the space you have between the water rad and the engine pulleys, please?
I'd like to know if there's the space to install high flow electric fans in there.

Cheers,
Andrea

Biggest fan you can fit in there is a 9 inch fan up to 2.5" inch thick fan. Which wont cover one half of the rad on the inside . That isnt even close to enough fan. I will be running 2 9" and one 16". You need to find 2" thick fans too, it's a nightmare.

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 11:30 AM

Idk the pic issam posted shows it sitting pretty well, I think he was using our S4 mounts, NYCVR6 you seem to be using larger mounts..?

I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol

I am way more in depth into this swap than Issam was. The mount bracket you see in the picture fits, the other side isnt even close. Issam has a toureg block in his car so it is tabbed different than any other VR motor. You WILL have crazy problems with this swap i guarantee. I have only gotten this far because im working on the car in my friends shop, and he is there to help me fab parts as we go. You may get the motor to sit in the bay, if you can make the one mount, but it doesnt clear the hood, rad support must be hacked, hood latch doesnt fit, etc.. Listen to what im saying, im sharing this info before you guys get in too deep in a swap you probably cant pull off. I hope you have deep pockets, or good friends like me.

mrbogangles

08-30-2009, 11:35 AM

So where is the info on the B6 swap because I'm seriously thinking about doing this swap because my motor is getting old (140K) and I don't want another 4 banger. I have all the supporting mods and would love to have a VR in my car.

Originally Posted by ImageX View Post
has a swap for the b6 chassis been tried before???

Yes
not completed yet

[wrench] in the works

andream88

08-30-2009, 12:43 PM

I am way more in depth into this swap than Issam was. The mount bracket you see in the picture fits, the other side isnt even close. Issam has a toureg block in his car so it is tabbed different than any other VR motor. You WILL have crazy problems with this swap i guarantee. I have only gotten this far because im working on the car in my friends shop, and he is there to help me fab parts as we go. You may get the motor to sit in the bay, if you can make the one mount, but it doesnt clear the hood, rad support must be hacked, hood latch doesnt fit, etc.. Listen to what im saying, im sharing this info before you guys get in too deep in a swap you probably cant pull off. I hope you have deep pockets, or good friends like me.

so is a Touareg block a direct fit on OEM S4 mounts?

Mrsfourrings

08-30-2009, 01:06 PM

What is the issue with putting in a 12v VR6 motor and retaining a/c?? It seems that there should be a way to accomplish this.

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 01:34 PM

so is a Touareg block a direct fit on OEM S4 mounts?

You will be able to use the mount brackets Issam can supply on both sides, but the passenger side one will need modification (welding and drilling) to work. Any other block will need a custom mount on the passenger side. The oem s4 mounts arent the issue, the mount brackets are..

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 01:49 PM

Just figured out how to clear the hood. This week we will pill the s4 motor mounts out and shorten them by an inch and a half and re-weld them.

andream88

08-30-2009, 02:10 PM

You will be able to use the mount brackets Issam can supply on both sides, but the passenger side one will need modification (welding and drilling) to work. Any other block will need a custom mount on the passenger side. The oem s4 mounts arent the issue, the mount brackets are..

sorry my fault.
I meant mount brackets....

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 03:13 PM

sorry my fault.
I meant mount brackets....

Right, you can use the oem mounts, but you have to get different mount brackets/make your own. There is nothing direct bolt in or easy about this swap is basically what i wanted to share.

NYEuroTuner

08-30-2009, 03:31 PM

MyTunes

08-30-2009, 05:11 PM

I thought I read on one of these pages that the vr6 wiring is similar to the A4.
So is there then a possability of using an A4 harness and Ecu?

Would be perfect I suppose if your swapping into an a4 to

I imagine the cluster would still work over can-bus or could also be swapped with an a4.

Thoughts?

wdbdy2000s4

08-30-2009, 06:25 PM

Idk the pic issam posted shows it sitting pretty well, I think he was using our S4 mounts, NYCVR6 you seem to be using larger mounts..?

I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol

If Justin's having issues, 99% chance that you will too. He's been around s4's for a long time and has done some pretty impressive builds if you look at his history around here. Even Chris Green had some issues with fitment if you remember his thread and he has full fabrication abilities at his shop. I'd love to see more people get this done though.[up]

MyTunes

08-30-2009, 06:27 PM

If Justin's having issues, 99% chance that you will too. He's been around s4's for a long time and has done some pretty impressive builds if you look at his history around here. Even Chris Green had some issues with fitment if you remember his thread and he has full fabrication abilities at his shop. I'd love to see more people get this done though.[up]

It does certainly sound appealing...[>_<]

JBM

08-30-2009, 06:30 PM

[wrench] in the works

That's pretty vague. I mean I would like to know if I can keep the A/C with the B6 and what blocks I can actually run with this. I'm looking at the 24V with all the necessary equipments and a 30 series.

wdbdy2000s4

08-30-2009, 06:42 PM

That's pretty vague. I mean I would like to know if I can keep the A/C with the B6 and what blocks I can actually run with this. I'm looking at the 24V with all the necessary equipments and a 30 series.

if it fits in a b5 then it will fit in a b6. As you've seen, the mounting brackets will need to be altered or customized for either chassis, but the VR will easily fit in a b6 bay...making it stay there and run strong will take some work but it's not much harder then a b5 by any means. get wrenching kid.[wrench]

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 07:07 PM

NYC, How are you keeping the "dash" happy ? Meaning how are you going to keep the dash from having lights flashing galore?

Are you keeping the S4 ECU? or are you De-pinning and re wiring?

Mechanically speaking , or fabing I dont mind, but just curious how you are going to be running this car eletronically.

As long as you have a full fabrication shop on hand you should be fine, this is [retty much a custom swap. I am running Vi-Pec V88 for engine management, and will leave the factory ecu in to keep the dash working for the most part. Not like the factory tach will be able to keep up with the rpm's though.. [>_<]

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 07:08 PM

NYEuroTuner

08-30-2009, 07:44 PM

As long as you have a full fabrication shop on hand you should be fine, this is [retty much a custom swap. I am running Vi-Pec V88 for engine management, and will leave the factory ecu in to keep the dash working for the most part. Not like the factory tach will be able to keep up with the rpm's though.. [>_<]

Will you be able to pass inspection via OB2 Port?

NYCVR6

08-30-2009, 10:17 PM

Will you be able to pass inspection via OB2 Port?

No.. To be able to pull this swap and pass inspection will be nothing short of a miracle in my opinion. Im sure ill figure out a way to get a sticker though. [:D]

Wizard-of-OD

08-31-2009, 08:09 AM

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I hope Issam can come in here and give his 2 cents, I dont want to have any crazy problems with this swap...lol
I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....[>_<]

skele4door

08-31-2009, 11:15 AM

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....[>_<]

Are you planning on making custom motor mounts and using the OEM brackets, or making custom brackets to work with the stock size mounts? I don't know about everyone else, but losing the bulky stock motor mounts for something simpler would be a good idea IMOHO.

NYCVR6

08-31-2009, 04:08 PM

Ok I am here
Sorry everyone for the delay in replying.

I make it clear to anyone that is willing to do the swap that is not going to be easy.I am working with Justin right now to get the issues he has resolved...

It seems there are more variances than I anticipated but Justin is one of those guys that gets the job done so I am going to do what I can from my end.

Next up,lowering the motor an inch or so with custom mounts for the engine and transmission.

I just cant wait for this to be done,man you can almost hear the giggling in Justin's voice....[>_<]

I am excited, but it has proven to be more of a task than i expected. You know im not afraid on this, just not what i planned to deal with. I will post as we move along.

Wizard-of-OD

08-31-2009, 07:19 PM

You know im not afraid on this.
Oh I know...
anyone else would have parted out there S4 and moved onto a Mitsubishi....

But thats what happens when you come from a 10S past [>_<]

NYEuroTuner

09-01-2009, 08:52 AM

Issam, are you going to be offering parts so this can be a true bolt on, or is everyone who is going to be doing this swap have to get Fab work done to get the motor mounts and other issues Justin had resolved??

GURUMAN

09-01-2009, 09:25 AM

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...

Wizard-of-OD

09-01-2009, 10:37 AM

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...
At some point it will be but it depends what the user is willing to give up Dom.
You should know this better than anyone.

NYCVR6

09-01-2009, 04:38 PM

I really dont think you will ever be able to call this bolt on ...

This is the truth.

Mrsfourrings

09-02-2009, 06:16 AM

zx6r1033

09-02-2009, 10:48 AM

What is the issue about not being able to run A/C? I
was going to use a 97 A4 1.8T car I have the 12v VR6 and was wondering why people say you can't run/plum a/c-do I need a 24v compressor?
Thanks for any help you can shed on this issue for me!

It's already been said like 100 times in this thread... one of the A/C mounts on the 12v block needs to be used as a motor mount.

wdbdy2000s4

09-02-2009, 10:56 AM

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.

Papa Stone

09-02-2009, 12:11 PM

I believe that this swap is not going to be easy and not for everyone. Also my car is not my daily driver, and I have the patience and the shop to do it.. Is a great alternative if your in my situation.

Anyway I am waiting for others to finish it and see what the modifications are so I can address them as they come. I like the uniqueness of this project

Wizard-of-OD

09-02-2009, 12:14 PM

It's already been said like 100 times in this thread... one of the A/C mounts on the 12v block needs to be used as a motor mount.
Where the A/C bracket BOLTS to the Motor,those are the boses you will use to build a bracket from on the 12V block.

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.
I am going to address this once and then leave it after this.If you are looking for big power it is still worth it do the VR6 Swap.I make it clear that this is not for everyone and if you are worried about a little cutting or trimming then go with TiAL turbo kits as this is not for you.

MarksB5S4

09-02-2009, 12:43 PM

looks good keep up the work cant wait to see that thing move

NYEuroTuner

09-02-2009, 01:36 PM

Issam, keep your line open, I'm gonna give you a call later on. [up] [wrench]

zx6r1033

09-02-2009, 01:54 PM

funny how this went from a "no brainer swap," to a lot of custom fab work...I hope that there aren't people who got in over their heads.

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. It went from appearing to be a relatively straight forward swap to looking like quite a substantial bit of work. I was all for doing the swap until I PMed Issam about it a week or two ago. Now I am probably going to just go with Tial 650s.

NYEuroTuner

09-02-2009, 02:08 PM

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. It went from appearing to be a relatively straight forward swap to looking like quite a substantial bit of work. I was all for doing the swap until I PMed Issam about it a week or two ago. Now I am probably going to just go with Tial 650s.

Well if you think about it, it is still a bolt on swap...If you use 034's race engine cradle, the same cradle that's used in their time attack car.

But using their race cradle wont let you use AC. etc (or am I wrong?), and using the factory engine brackets give you more flexibility..

And I know it was assumed that the 24v can use the factory engine brackets without any modding, but even now knowing it will need modding, I still dont mind. I'm sure I can bust issams chops to make me some mounts/brackets.

My only worry is the electrical, but I am working with Issam currently to erase those issues. :)

NYCVR6

09-02-2009, 02:25 PM

Well if you think about it, it is still a bolt on swap...If you use 034's race engine cradle, the same cradle that's used in their time attack car.

But using their race cradle wont let you use AC. etc (or am I wrong?), and using the factory engine brackets give you more flexibility..

And I know it was assumed that the 24v can use the factory engine brackets without any modding, but even now knowing it will need modding, I still dont mind. I'm sure I can bust issams chops to make me some mounts/brackets.

My only worry is the electrical, but I am working with Issam currently to erase those issues.

The mount bracket doesnt needed to be modified, you have to make the passenger side one yourself. That is a minor problem compared to other things... Wait till you see how much of the rad support you have to hack to clear the pulleys, try fitting sufficient fans in the little space you have, modify the s4 mounts themselves the exact amount, and still have to hammer the shit out of the subframe so the starter fits.. I am dead serious when i say this swap done well is almost like building a full race car. Youll need to install hoop pins to keep the hood shut as well. The list is huge, we havent even touched some things yet.. Like making the water lines, exhaust (should be easy), ac lines, power steering lines, etc.. My car will be done next week because i have the guy coming to wire it up.. So ill post as things come together. [up]

NYEuroTuner

09-02-2009, 02:55 PM

My car will be done next week because i have the guy coming to wire it up.. So ill post as things come together. [up]

Having you close by will def be a big advantage for me, get ready for a crap load of questions from me once your S is ready. lol

[up]

NYCVR6

09-02-2009, 03:07 PM

Having you close by will def be a big advantage for me, get ready for a crap load of questions from me once your S is ready. lol

[up]

haha i figured this much. [:D]

NYCVR6

09-05-2009, 08:42 AM

Got some other things accomplished yesterday.. Posting pics in a minute.. Car should be done this week and ready for wiring.

NYCVR6

09-05-2009, 08:44 AM

Making intake manifold
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/car1.jpg
Nice velocity stacks
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/car3.jpg
Modified valve cover.. Oil filler neck removed, and a new one welded to rear. 2 fittings for breather installed.. Some paint to keep it fresh.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/car-2.jpg

wdbdy2000s4

09-05-2009, 10:26 AM

looking good [up]

Wizard-of-OD

09-05-2009, 12:36 PM

That looks amazing Justin!

NYCVR6

09-08-2009, 07:18 PM

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/7-3.jpg

Papa Stone

09-08-2009, 08:05 PM

did you figure the engine location?? It looks lower..can you talk about the changes you have made to make it look SO GOOD AND RIGHT!!

and Idea, I been looking into Air to water intercooling for this set up in the intake. I have looked into the E46 VF kit and Race marque for inspiration.. If you are worried about your big intercooler, you might want to look into before going on Air to Air..
http://www.racemarque.com/CatalogPages/productphotos/products2-180.jpg
http://www.vf-engineering.com/images/media/media_e46m3s1_2.jpg

Love to do it in the manifold!? I wonder who could do a intake like the one VF makes!!

NYEuroTuner

09-09-2009, 11:00 AM

Any updates justin?

NYCVR6

09-09-2009, 06:21 PM

Started making the downpipe today, also finishing up the intake manifold. After that, the AC lines, the power steering lines, make a coolant overflow, and then the water lines which will be a nightmare for sure. This swap straight up sucks.. I have the guy coming to wire on tues, so it needs to be completely done by then.

jibberjive

09-09-2009, 08:06 PM

This swap straight up sucks..

LOL, good thing you're the one pioneering the 24v so that it actually gets done[hail]

NYCVR6

09-09-2009, 08:13 PM

LOL, good thing you're the one pioneering the 24v so that it actually gets done[hail]

Thanks.. It's been a tough few weeks. I keep thinking if i wasnt so damn deep in this i would quit lol.. That's not really my personality though.. Plus looking at a basically in line 6 sitting in the bay is very supra-esque, it helps keep me motivated... [wrench]

GURUMAN

09-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Thanks.. It's been a tough few weeks. I keep thinking if i wasnt so damn deep in this i would quit lol.. That's not really my personality though.. Plus looking at a basically in line 6 sitting in the bay is very supra-esque, it helps keep me motivated... [wrench]

From that engine bay picture, bro

after all the shaving you did to make that Vr6 go in, I even thin this would fit [>_<]

http://www.grant.co.jp/fun/furyou/12498793_large%5B1%5D.jpg

NYCVR6

09-09-2009, 09:30 PM

Haha no shit Dom.. Im excited though.. You got your car running great man, its been a work in progress for you.. Im psyched to see it come together so nicely..

NYCVR6

09-10-2009, 06:13 PM

Newest problem, the oil pan hits the sway bar. For now i removed my front sway bar.. I may cut and modify the oil pan in the future if handling is drastically changed. We made the AC lines today.. Last pic shows the throttle body mounting location.. I hope i got my point across, if not, here's a reminder.. This swap sucks ass..
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/11-4.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/12.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/13.jpg

GURUMAN

09-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Wow man. All I can say...

Because I know by the pictures, it's a shitload of custom work...

It's almost looking bolt on... [>_<][>_<][>_<][>_<]

As it was mentioned before, it's a good thing it landed in your hands and not any kid that tought it was a week-end job[:(]

BlkBullitt

09-11-2009, 06:21 AM

Subscribed [up]

Issam, I know there are quite a few repeating questions in this thread that you or others have answered multiple times yet they keep on popping up.

Is there any chance that you might edit your first post and make a parts list for this swap for each variety of B5 A4/S4? I know the parts list may change based on simple items such as what engine the car is originally equipped with (V6 12v, V6 30v, 1.8t, 2.7t), whether the car is DBW, if you want to retain A/C, if you want to be emissions legal, etc. I think this might help keep the redundant questions to a minimum by making the info quick and easy to find.

Thanks for all of the hard work and I'm looking forward to updates [up]

andream88

09-11-2009, 09:49 AM

any pics of the modified engine mount NYC?

NYEuroTuner

09-11-2009, 10:44 AM

NYCVR6

09-11-2009, 08:30 PM

any pics of the modified engine mount NYC?

The mounts themselves are pure motorsport mounts, with 3/4" cut off the top and new shorter bolts used.

NYCVR6

09-11-2009, 08:35 PM

Justin, if you can post as many pics you can of all the cutting and fabbing you have done so far I would greatly appreciate it..

I am less than halfway (no where near your status) in this swap, and I want to take every precaution.

Also, I need a duplicate of the custom passenger mount/bracket you had to make, is there anyway you can find out if I can buy one from either you or the guy who made it for you.?

Thanks for your time & help justin.. [up]

I would say once you have the motor and trans bolted into the chassis, you are like 20% done with the swap. I will ask him tomorrow, im sure he's willing to make it.. As for all the cutting and fabbing, it's hard for me to do right now. I have the wire guy coming tues and i need the car done by then, so any time in the shop we are working. I have listed most of the issues, if not all of them. Making the mount bracket was the least of our problems.. This swap is so not straight forward. Besides the trans bolting to the motor, and the motor/trans bolting into the chassis besides the one mount bracket, this swap is full custom work. Picture building a race car.. Everything is custom.. Spark plug coil packs dont fit, so you need custom wires and coilpack... AC lines were a nightmare, working on power steering lines still, rad support chopped to hell, fans all relocated and thin fans used, valve cover custom, sway bar gone, different oil pan needed, custom mounts, subframe hammered, etc.... The list goes on and on... Making the water lines tomorrow, which will probably be one of the hardest tasks yet. If anyone thinks they can do this swap in their house, they are making a huge mistake, mark my words.. I think thinking you can use a 24v harness is not going to happen, simply because of the coil pack issue alone.. I wouldnt even consider this project unless you have lots of cash, or really good fabricator friends and know how to fabricate yourself..

NYCVR6

09-11-2009, 08:38 PM

Over $1000 in fittings and hose so far..
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/8-1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/9-1.jpg

NYEuroTuner

09-11-2009, 10:56 PM

If anyone thinks they can do this swap in their house, they are making a huge mistake, mark my words.. I think thinking you can use a 24v harness is not going to happen, simply because of the coil pack issue alone.. I wouldnt even consider this project unless you have lots of cash, or really good fabricator friends and know how to fabricate yourself..

You'd be surpirsed what kind of magic happens in a private home garage. [wrench] [;)]

lol But I do appreciate all the pics, and all the info you have shared so far.[:)]

Its greatly appreciated and all I can ask is keep the pics and info comming..lol

Good luck on your build justin. [up]

Wizard-of-OD

09-12-2009, 02:31 AM

lol But I do appreciate all the pics, and all the info you have shared so far.[:)]

You are not the only one...cant wait to see this in person when I come down to NY.

NYCVR6

09-12-2009, 05:37 AM

You'd be surpirsed what kind of magic happens in a private home garage. [wrench] [;)]

lol But I do appreciate all the pics, and all the info you have shared so far.[:)]

Its greatly appreciated and all I can ask is keep the pics and info comming..lol

Good luck on your build justin. [up]

I hope you prove me wrong.. [up] No problem at all.

wdbdy2000s4

09-12-2009, 07:47 AM

I hope you prove me wrong.. [up] No problem at all.

I'm going to +rep you everyday. Nice work, that engine bay looks sick.

Wizard-of-OD

09-13-2009, 12:38 PM

I'm going to +rep you everyday. Nice work, that engine bay looks sick.
You can do that?
Everyone here gets 1+ rep
lets see if it works.

wdbdy2000s4

09-14-2009, 07:03 AM

You can do that?
Everyone here gets 1+ rep
lets see if it works.

I'm not sure, I think it tells you to "spread the love" or something...I may need to start repping other people just so I can improve Justin's rep. A lot of good info and sharing in this thread by everyone.

NYEuroTuner

09-14-2009, 11:42 AM

A lot of good info and sharing in this thread by everyone.

[up]Very true

GURUMAN

09-14-2009, 03:38 PM

What about my rep... ? lol

Wizard-of-OD

09-14-2009, 03:51 PM

What about my rep... ? lol
Allready gave you 1...LOL

SeaBass

09-15-2009, 06:35 AM

why not just use an b5 a4? for 12000 you could gt30 and build your 2.7tt.

NYEuroTuner

09-15-2009, 06:47 AM

why not just use an b5 a4? for 12000 you could gt30 and build your 2.7tt.

Please read the entire thread, it will answer your question, in fact, just read the first few pages. [;)]

Wizard-of-OD

09-15-2009, 10:50 AM

Please read the entire thread, it will answer your question, in fact, just read the first few pages. [;)]
....Malaka [>_<][up]

jamestown478

09-15-2009, 11:05 AM

You can do that?
Everyone here gets 1+ rep
lets see if it works.

I'll rep u if you rep me. haha that sounds wrong.

NYEuroTuner

09-16-2009, 11:16 AM

Bump for progress. [wrench] [:D]

NYCVR6

09-17-2009, 06:01 PM

Surge tank with fuel pump mounted
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/3333.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/333-1.jpg
Most everything is done. Just need to finish back half of exhaust and tie up loose ends.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/33333.jpg

Wizard-of-OD

09-17-2009, 06:07 PM

Is it good to be giddy like a school girl now?

antoanS4

09-17-2009, 09:33 PM

NYEuroTuner

09-18-2009, 08:28 AM

Justin when your done, we have to meet for coffee So I can bring pen and paper and take some notes..

And I have a few questions, even though my build is not Boosted, its NA, I still would love to check your build out head to toe for reference.

Looks amazing kiddo[up]
[hail]

revhards4

09-18-2009, 01:58 PM

BAD ASS fuel setup you got there my friend!!!!!!!!!!!

NYEuroTuner

09-20-2009, 07:23 PM

Bump. =)

URHank

09-21-2009, 11:32 AM

Good fab work there. Keep it up. I only am on audizine for this thread alone.

NYEuroTuner

09-21-2009, 01:25 PM

Oh yea... [wrench][drive]

NYEuroTuner

09-27-2009, 09:04 PM

Oh yea... [wrench][drive]

More [wrench][wrench][wrench]

onemoremile

09-29-2009, 07:13 PM

That is a good looking piece but it makes me wonder if you guys are aware that three ports are longer than the others in the head. Staggering the intake ports the same distance is the way to go. [up]

Making intake manifold
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/car1.jpg
Nice velocity stacks
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/car3.jpg

NYCVR6

09-29-2009, 08:14 PM

That is a good looking piece but it makes me wonder if you guys are aware that three ports are longer than the others in the head. Staggering the intake ports the same distance is the way to go. [up]

Of course we're aware of the head design.. There are major space constraints with that manifold between the alternator and the hood, this is basically the only way to make one fit on this setup.. [up] With 30+ psi being pushed in we're not too worried about that anyway. [:D]

NYCVR6

09-29-2009, 08:16 PM

The car is running now, we started it up tonight.. My tuner i was playing with Vipec since it's a new system, and after he figured some things out the car fired up on the first crank. We have to button the car up and finish some small things and a little wiring. We should start street tuning by friday, ill be in mexico next week but my friend is going to bring the car to the dyno for me so it can get tuned. My plan is to get back from mexico saturday and be at show and go sunday morning. haha The car sounds sick btw..
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/11-5.jpg

mrbogangles

09-29-2009, 10:13 PM

wow great job make a video when your done[:D]

Wizard-of-OD

09-30-2009, 07:04 AM

Staggering the intake ports the same distance is the way to go. [up]
Not on the 4V/cyl VR motors

Matador

09-30-2009, 07:26 AM

Not on the 4V/cyl VR motors

Hehe, this has been a topic of debate for a LOOONG time over on the R32 vortex forum. When HPA released their CVP manifold about 1/3 of people flipped shit because they all said "NO NO NO! STAGGERED IS CORRADO VR6 ENGINEERING! UR DOING IT WRONG!" and claimed that the manifold from the factory is equal length for a reason. In addition they also said there is built in cam compensation for the unequal nature of the intake path. Ironically, nobody ever says the same negative comments about the HGP turbo manifold which (if you look closely [rolleyes]) has staggered runners as well.

However, none of the nay-sayers have been able to show documented proof of their claims that switching from equal to unequal length runners decreases power or affects engine performance negatively. I'm not saying yay or nay either way, but could anyone here give any actual technical argument for either camp? Dyno plots, air flow measurements, notes from VW/Audi engineering?

Wizard-of-OD

09-30-2009, 07:33 AM

Hehe, this has been a topic of debate for a LOOONG time over on the R32 vortex forum. When HPA released their CVP manifold about 1/3 of people flipped shit because they all said "NO NO NO! STAGGERED IS CORRADO VR6 ENGINEERING! UR DOING IT WRONG!" and claimed that the manifold from the factory is equal length for a reason. In addition they also said there is built in cam compensation for the unequal nature of the intake path. Ironically, nobody ever says the same negative comments about the HGP turbo manifold which (if you look closely [rolleyes]) has staggered runners as well.

However, none of the nay-sayers have been able to show documented proof of their claims that switching from equal to unequal length runners decreases power or affects engine performance negatively. I'm not saying yay or nay either way, but could anyone here give any actual technical argument for either camp? Dyno plots, air flow measurements, notes from VW/Audi engineering?
Look @ the dyno plots of the HGP/HPA manifold.
Scott Murray posted up a heart breaking technical discussion followed by Fredrick Stahl.If no one knows who Fred is,he makes more hp/l from a VR motor than anyone I can think of.

Rothe Motorsport makes the only equal length runner manifold for the R32 and it is the only cast manifold that has shown gains right across the power band.

NYEuroTuner

09-30-2009, 07:50 AM

Looks great justin, get some videos asap!

NYCVR6

09-30-2009, 04:29 PM

As requested..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zd5mHPOjGM

AKAvant

09-30-2009, 04:37 PM

Hot damn, great to see that thing up and running! Congrats on getting it almost done and sticking with it.

antoanS4

09-30-2009, 04:41 PM

CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mrsfourrings

09-30-2009, 05:30 PM

Very nice!!! I LIKE!!!![hail]

NYEuroTuner

10-01-2009, 02:37 PM

As requested..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zd5mHPOjGM

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/52/cagemoar.jpg

NYCVR6

10-01-2009, 05:26 PM

Rajan147

10-01-2009, 05:43 PM

Spooled1.8

10-01-2009, 06:19 PM

Looks awesome man! Very excited to see the end result...

Isaam, who is the Malaka? Be careful, we're everywhere [:p]

jibberjive

10-01-2009, 09:46 PM

We're still throwing around ideas of how to fit the bumper grills.

After looking at the pic, good luck with that[:d]

wdbdy2000s4

10-02-2009, 06:24 AM

Car is pretty much done, just need to hook up the fans, tune, clean, and have fun.. We're still throwing around ideas of how to fit the bumper grills.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/11-6.jpg

Have you considered angling the end tanks back toward the car? You could cut a .25-.5" wide slit down the back of the IC where the end tanks meet the core, bend the end tank back toward the car and reweld. It would still look clean from the front and it would give you much more room.

edit: nevermind, I just saw your core is sticking out the front of your bumper.

Matador

10-02-2009, 07:09 AM

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/52/cagemoar.jpg

http://www.artonot.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/moar.jpg

NYEuroTuner

10-02-2009, 11:59 AM

More vids!!!!

PEP-1972

10-02-2009, 12:48 PM

That VR looks & sounds good under the hood. So any plans on going to the track this year? Maybe we can see another car running 9's.

NYCVR6

10-02-2009, 12:49 PM

Im off to mexico in the morning.. My friend and the tuner will street and dyno tunecwhile im gone. If all goes well i get back saturday and will be at show and go on sunday to run it. Im pretty confident they can get it done.

PEP-1972

10-02-2009, 12:52 PM

I would suggest getting rs4 bumper, i'm sure the fitment would be better than s4. I'm looking forward to see this car run. That's gonna be one fast car.

andream88

10-02-2009, 01:01 PM

I would suggest getting rs4 bumper, i'm sure the fitment would be better than s4.

don't think so. ;)

PEP-1972

10-02-2009, 01:19 PM

I always thought there is more room behind rs4 bumper.

NYCVR6

10-02-2009, 01:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RignahNlCk

b5s4tt

10-02-2009, 01:58 PM

that beast sounds sick

NYEuroTuner

10-02-2009, 02:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RignahNlCk

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/d/d6/ICAME_Spongebob.jpg/795px-ICAME_Spongebob.jpg

@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

antoanS4

10-02-2009, 03:51 PM

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/d/d6/ICAME_Spongebob.jpg/795px-ICAME_Spongebob.jpg

@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

X2

NYEuroTuner

10-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Moar!!!!!!

NYCVR6

10-03-2009, 10:10 PM

Haha im in mexico right now, my friend will be prepping the car for me. So no more videos until i get back... Should have some dyno results before then if all goes well. I trust my friend who is helping me, he has been a lot of help and knows a lot. This car was built with no corners cut. I should be at etown for show and go the day after i get home..

NetLogic

10-05-2009, 11:54 AM

Just for some inspiration.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USP-Motorsports-VR6-Turbo_710752.htm

Looks nice and good job on the build.

NYEuroTuner

10-05-2009, 12:34 PM

Good Video. That Exhaust Mani looks beastly..

GURUMAN

10-05-2009, 02:35 PM

I'M speechless....

The B5 is going somewhere...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY96Ar8pUIE

NYEuroTuner

10-05-2009, 02:42 PM

I'M speechless....

The B5 is going somewhere...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY96Ar8pUIE

Little birdies say your looking to drop in a Chevy V8 into B5..[cool]

GURUMAN

10-05-2009, 03:08 PM

Little birdies say your looking to drop in a Chevy V8 into B5..[cool]

Na man, in my B6 avant, ya...[;)]

NYEuroTuner

10-05-2009, 03:29 PM

Na man, in my B6 avant, ya...[;)]

Oh SHizz. [up][up]

AudiSportB5S4

10-05-2009, 03:55 PM

Wow Justin, awesome! I haven't bothered looking at this thread in so long, last I remember was you selling the motor and that's it. I thought you dropped out of the B5 S4 scene! HAHA.

Car is amazing, I think we should set up pulls to show people how a fairly well running Stage 3 pairs up, just to inspire some/good for some laughs.

Rajan147

10-05-2009, 06:08 PM

Is there a particular reason for using an S4 over an A4 for a VR6 12V or VR6 24V swap other than having a 6spd tranny or am I missing something?

NYCVR6

10-05-2009, 09:55 PM

NYCVR6

10-05-2009, 09:57 PM

Is there a particular reason for using an S4 over an A4 for a VR6 12V or VR6 24V swap other than having a 6spd tranny or am I missing something?

I already had the s4.. But you can use either..personally id use the s4 anyway for the nice touches it comes with from the factory..

NYEuroTuner

10-06-2009, 07:39 AM

x2

Same reason why I chose the S4 to do this swap rather than the A4, the trim level (dash, cluster etc)...

awtst3.a6

10-06-2009, 07:46 AM

I'M speechless....

The B5 is going somewhere...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY96Ar8pUIE

Did this guy make audi or something? Lol...

Wizard-of-OD

10-07-2009, 02:45 PM

As requested..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zd5mHPOjGM
i approve[up]

GURUMAN

10-07-2009, 06:28 PM

Did this guy make audi or something? Lol...

??? [:/]

onemoremile

10-08-2009, 05:40 AM

The car sounds amazing.

Do you guys have links to the intake manifold discussion? I had a VR6 from 00-04 and read a few of the debates back then. i didn't know about the cams.

GURUMAN

10-08-2009, 06:49 AM

Did this guy make audi or something? Lol...

I really dont know what is your problem, keep on Bad rep me bud [:D]

I really think you need to first read before acting like you do.

Im really excited about the PROGRESS the B5 PLATFORM is making, I couldnt care less if it's an A4, S4, VR swapped, for me it's the same car period.

034 trapped 148 mph, Criss 146, I did 140... (Cant wait for Justin's)

I dont know if you guy fully realize what it needs [:)]

Google What chevy's and Ford have to look like when they reach those speeds

They dont look stock like our cars for sure...[:|]

I guess most of you understands that, but for some it needs more explaning[>_<]

[up][up][up] VR SWAP

NYEuroTuner

10-08-2009, 09:20 AM

Well Said Guru. [:)]

Matador

10-08-2009, 09:42 AM

The car sounds amazing.

Do you guys have links to the intake manifold discussion? I had a VR6 from 00-04 and read a few of the debates back then. i didn't know about the cams.

I'm still looking for the information too, definitive at that. I sent some PMs over @ Vortex but never got any replies. Here's where some of the debate is:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3344156&page=1

There's lots others, just look up "CVP" in the search for thread titles. In other news, bigger cams!!!!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4583357

Wizard-of-OD

10-09-2009, 06:04 PM

In other news, bigger cams!!!!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4583357
That should really waken up the 24V motors.

onemoremile

10-10-2009, 04:34 AM

Nice. Thanks!

NYCVR6

10-10-2009, 06:46 PM

Car is on the dyno as we speak.. Not posting numbers yet, but 4 tires are breaking loose on the dyno.

revhards4

10-10-2009, 06:48 PM

I can't wait to see some vids[up]

antoanS4

10-10-2009, 10:17 PM

I can't wait to see some vids[up]

X2

NYCVR6

10-10-2009, 11:08 PM

Well we had some issues we need to figure out.. We made 640+whp so far.. I will be at show and go at englishtown tomorrow to make some probably easy shake down runs..

revhards4

10-11-2009, 04:40 AM

640whp!! yikes...I smell 140mph easy when you get those minor kinks worked out.

GaroBlu

10-11-2009, 04:42 AM

Hmm.... I have a 2002 VR6 12v sitting in a GTI in the states doing nothing....

Nah, I couldn't. I like the VW too much to rip it out.

NYCVR6

10-11-2009, 03:29 PM

640whp!! yikes...I smell 140mph easy when you get those minor kinks worked out.

Rough day, 4 hours sleep.. First pass rad hose blows off after a bog launch, and i coast to a 12.0@120.. Bogged because i forgot to put the pedal to the floor to activate the 2step.. Second pass, 2 step working great + freshly vht'd track = snapped axle.. Go in pits replace axle with a spare i brought... Go back out, decide not to snap another axle, launch without 2 step, bog to a 2.2 60 foot.. by the time the car spooled up and i got moving, i ran a pathetic [email protected]... Didnt even get to shift into 5th on any pass yet.. Was running low boost to just get a clean pass, didnt work out. Car is going back to dyno soon and track.. I have some vids, but im lazy right now. Sorry to let you guys down, but still working out the bugs.. Met some cool audizine people though.

BENI_BOY

10-11-2009, 07:21 PM

even tho the car didnt run to its full potential, the car is def a beast. the car just dips and moves like a rocket and even sounds like one! justin it was nice meeting you.. real cool guy.

snapin axles like woah!

Big Boost

10-11-2009, 07:47 PM

i ran a pathetic [email protected][confused]

Um-m, you ran a 12.2 at 128mph!!! You have to look at your MPH more than anything along with your 60 foot times. You for sure will be doing 10's once you sort everything out. [drive]

NYCVR6

10-11-2009, 07:49 PM

AMC

10-11-2009, 07:50 PM

yea as my brotehr said it was nice to meet you justin. real smart and cool guy even tho ur girl seemed upset ur car takes the attention lol. he snapped a solid axel in half thats the power it has. once that turbo spools the car just moves! mice meeting u man hope to see some good times in that beast soon

NYCVR6

10-11-2009, 07:51 PM

[confused]

Um-m, you ran a 12.2 at 128mph!!! You have to look at your MPH more than anything along with your 60 foot times. You for sure will be doing 10's once you sort everything out. [drive]

I know im just hard on myself.. [:D] We did rush the car together, the first time i really got on the car was my first pass, and we have some other things to sort out. [up]

NYCVR6

10-11-2009, 07:52 PM

AMC

10-11-2009, 07:59 PM

anytime man. shoulda asked me to do something lol i just replaced an axle last night. dont mind getting dirty lol

GURUMAN

10-11-2009, 08:31 PM

Dude it's been so long, how is beeing on a track in that car feels ? still good ?

Jake39454

10-11-2009, 09:03 PM

Met some cool audizine people though.

Nice meeting you and checking out the swap setup [cool][cool][cool]

You did well today considering the variables [up]

NYCVR6

10-12-2009, 07:00 AM

Dude it's been so long, how is beeing on a track in that car feels ? still good ?

I love it still, definitely been a while.. I should be able to go back before the winter i hope. [drive]

NYEuroTuner

10-12-2009, 07:55 AM

I love it still, definitely been a while.. I should be able to go back before the winter i hope. [drive]

Moar Vids Malaka!

NYCVR6

10-12-2009, 04:30 PM

This video caused the below picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xze1Z0Sse-o
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/nycvr6/DSC00367.jpg

No hard launch attempt and a big time bog in next clip.. Some granny shifting too, figured id call myself out on it before someone else does haha. Plus i was just trying to keep it together and be able to drive home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzlaIV3k0P0

Videos should have been in hd i dont know what happened during the upload, no big deal.

antoanS4

10-12-2009, 07:08 PM

that car sounds sick men, love it, what fueling kit r u using

NYCVR6

10-12-2009, 07:33 PM

that car sounds sick men, love it, what fueling kit r u using

Custom fuel system. 044 in tanks feeding a surge tank, then -10 feed with fuelab prodigy 1300hp pump, and -6 return line. Injector dynamics/bosch 1000cc ev14 injectors, and all controlled by ViPec V88 engine management.

jibberjive

10-12-2009, 09:26 PM

Custom fuel system. 044 in tanks feeding a surge tank, then -10 feed with fuelab prodigy 1300hp pump, and -6 return line. Injector dynamics/bosch 1000cc ev14 injectors, and all controlled by ViPec V88 engine management.

How do you like them EV14's? Are they all they're cracked up to be?

OneSickSedan

10-12-2009, 09:59 PM

Shit man I feel like it was yesterday that you said you were gonna do this. All of a sudden 640 whp and running on the track. I think this was the quickest completed project I've witnessed on AZ. You did some nice work fast. Congrats and can't wait for more.[up]

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 05:57 AM

How do you like them EV14's? Are they all they're cracked up to be?

No complaints yet.. Everyone i know running them loves them. [up]

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 05:59 AM

Sales@RAI

10-13-2009, 06:03 AM

Good stuff, are you gonna pick up some Audi 80 axles or whatever the dude in Poland runs?

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 06:51 AM

Good stuff, are you gonna pick up some Audi 80 axles or whatever the dude in Poland runs?

Im looking into my options for axles.. Do you have any more info on those axles and availability? Thanks

NYEuroTuner

10-13-2009, 08:52 AM

URHank

10-13-2009, 09:55 AM

Car looks great. Very fast build, and nice results. 128mph traps are fast anyway you put it. Good job. I look forward to axle updates!

Hank

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 12:32 PM

Justin, do you have any vids of your dash while the car is running? I just want to get a sense of how functional the dash is.

I'm a few weeks away from starting mine up, and I jsut wanted to see if you did any custom splicing, de-pinning to the original harness to get the Dash to run without Christmas lights.

Thanks [up]

I can take some. Epc check engine and abs lights on. Tach, speedo, water temp, etc all work. We'll get rid of as many warning lights as possible soon

NYEuroTuner

10-13-2009, 01:07 PM

I can take some. Epc check engine and abs lights on. Tach, speedo, water temp, etc all work. We'll get rid of as many warning lights as possible soon

Thank you..

But any Custom wiring/modding to the original harness?

terraflata

10-13-2009, 01:32 PM

Everyone chasing 500-600WHP, how is your transmission suriving all of this?? I refused doing a VR6 simply because I have no faith in the tranny for the VR6`s potential.

APBS4

10-13-2009, 01:43 PM

What are you revving the car out to? And how is the stock tach handling those revs?

Looking good so far.

O2VW1.8T

10-13-2009, 01:46 PM

Everyone chasing 500-600WHP, how is your transmission suriving all of this?? I refused doing a VR6 simply because I have no faith in the tranny for the VR6`s potential.

USP motorsport is at 826awhp on there stock S4 trans with a VR6 and it seems to be doing fine.

onemoremile

10-13-2009, 02:27 PM

Im looking into my options for axles.. Do you have any more info on those axles and availability? Thanks

JHM has solid axles at a good price.

http://www.jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_62_63_125_213&products_id=120&osCsid=595ff5b7448af29242c6b8d891210ca4

http://www.jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/makethumb.php?pic=images/Front_CV_Shaft_New.jpg&w=175&sq=Y

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 03:18 PM

Thank you..

But any Custom wiring/modding to the original harness?

Yes a lot, we left the fatory ecu in only for a few wires for certain things.. Otherwise everything else is controlled by the standalone.

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 03:20 PM

What are you revving the car out to? And how is the stock tach handling those revs?

Looking good so far.

7500 so far, not much more needed for the vr6, the stock tach is too slow to keep up with the motor. I think in first gear if it reads 6800, im at 7500 according to my standalone.

The stock trans is plenty strong.

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 03:20 PM

JHM has solid axles at a good price.

http://www.jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_62_63_125_213&products_id=120&osCsid=595ff5b7448af29242c6b8d891210ca4

http://www.jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/makethumb.php?pic=images/Front_CV_Shaft_New.jpg&w=175&sq=Y

JHM axles look like the same ones i just broke.

jibberjive

10-13-2009, 03:38 PM

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 03:39 PM

Has anyone shown those axles to be any better or worse than the stock ones??

I bought very similar looking ones to those from purems, and you can see the picture of them above.

AMC

10-13-2009, 04:15 PM

yea they are the same from what i heard. anyways justin u have pm

SourDieselS4

10-13-2009, 04:53 PM

jibberjive

10-13-2009, 05:37 PM

The cars a beast, great work

From what iv heard its pretty common for OEM axles to break like this, the JHM/PureMS axles are solid so that wont happen but i guess it just exposes the next weakest point.
They're different axles with different geometry, and they could well be made of different metals. Just because they break at different places doesn't necessarily mean that they've cured any weak points, because for all we know the joint where the solid ones broke could simply be weaker than OEM. I'm not claiming that's the case or anything, just saying that that logic doesn't necessarily work with these.

jibberjive

10-13-2009, 05:40 PM

Looks like it's time for JHM or 034 to fab or contract some more of their signature custom B5 S4 parts and get us some killer axles that can handle all of these high power builds[wrench][up]

O2VW1.8T

10-13-2009, 05:43 PM

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 05:46 PM

Looks like it's time for JHM or 034 to fab or contract some more of their signature custom B5 S4 parts and get us some killer axles that can handle all of these high power builds[wrench][up]

I think 034 has custom axles on their time attack car.

NYCVR6

10-13-2009, 05:47 PM

I'd hit my marty at raxles.com he can make the axles for you and the warranty is life time, he's confident they wont break if you get the performance ones. I believe i paid 349 each for mine and it was worth it...

Ive heard mixed reviews with raxles.. I guess a complete set would be around $1400 give or take?

Jake39454

10-13-2009, 05:49 PM

Your axles were not like the JHM's, yours were very skinny and had machine marks, not smooth like factory/JHM. Yours looked exactly like the Empi's that break easily

wdbdy2000s4

10-13-2009, 06:22 PM

I refused doing a VR6 simply because I have no faith in the tranny for the VR6`s potential.

lol. where is this coming from? the stock trans is VERY strong. people only blow syncros on misshifts or years of not knowing how to drive standard. All the big players in the s4 game have been using stock trans for a long time(some change gear ratios). All the GT guys have been running 01Es with no problem, Chris green does, 034, eurocode, rstyles, etc. I really wouldn't worry about it.