Tuning your Motronic ECU (ME7.1)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

**************************************
I feel I need to amend this thread with a final few points.

While this thread was good to gather some info and get the ball rolling, most if not all the current and new information is now located on the NefMoto forum and the S4 Wiki.

Links:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php

http://www.s4wiki.com/


Truth be told I don't have the time nor is it worth it to maintain a thread like this, because information becomes very scattered.

Also I would like to ask that people stop PM'ing me about getting them tunes, or tuning their cars for them. This is not something that I offer to the public. I don't have time to tune your car. If and when I decide to release my tunes I will do so.

The whole purpose of this thread is to get people started with learning how to be able to tune their ME7 ECU. It's not here to save you $1000 so you can get some novice tuner to possibly blow up your car. I would like to remind people just because you have the knowledge to change things inside an ECU doesn't mean you should!
**************************************


So since I'm now the owner of an S4, and am now very interested in keeping everything as stock as possible as far as engine controls goes, I've gotten back into researching information on what tools are needed to gain access to the ECU program/flash and decoding the information in it to modify the tune and send it back to the ECU. Known as "chip tuning".

Of course the sad reality is that in the European automotive world, many things are kept a secret due to greedy tuners and business while other enthusiasts of many Japanese cars get to enjoy the ability to do what we want to do for many years now thanks to many smart people that work together to just make it work. Not to say there isn't people out there for the Japanese that don't continue to develop to make money off of it because there is, but in the end there are enough tools (hardware and software) available for you to tune your car yourself on a very acceptable budget.

So, onwards it goes... I've been crawling the web to get as much information as possible as to how to tune these 'pesky' ECU's and finding the right tools takes a lot of time (and sometimes money).

I would like to know if anyone else here has been able to gather any information for our ECU's. I know tuning isn't for everyone, and while many people 'want' to tune themselves, many shouldn't unless they're really willing to learn an in depth process.

So far I have found a slew of programs for various VAG cars, some I was able to find for free, others I paid for. Hardware such as KWP2000 cables are obviously something you'll have to buy but are not going to break the bank.

I'm tired of this all being a secret. Everyone should have the option to tune their own cars for a reasonable amount of money if they choose to put enough work into it. And I'm sure many others feel the same way.

************************************************** **********

So far I have acquired the following programs that seem to be used to edit/find maps and various other things pertaining to VAG cars:

-WinOLS (HEX based map editing that will allow you to display them in various ways, will auto find maps but not tell you what they are. There are files called DAMOS files which are 'key' files which contain the info to reveal maps in WinOLS and other tuning software)

-Galletto (allows the reading and writing of flashes/files to and from the ECU using a KWP2000 cable. So yes you can 'copy' entire ECU's this way.)

-VAG EEPROM Programmer (not quite sure yet, seems like this software lets you directly HEX edit the program in the ECU (be it for mileage changes or otherwise related to tuning)

-KWP2000/KWP2000-ME7 (Flashing of KWP2000 protocol ECU's - ie. Motronic)

-ECM2001 (Tuning of ECU files, checksum correction, plotting of graphs etc. I've read that this software is out dated and is not the best to use, but it will allow you to 'find' maps and possibly even have something similar to DAMOS files where it already knows and points out what areas of the maps do what)

-ECUFix (allows the correction of checksums of edited flashes so the ECU will accept the files and run them).

Programs

Here is a .rar file that has the programs (KWP2000 & TunerPro) and a stock M-box ROM and the M-box .xdf file.

http://www.vaglinks.com/Downloads/S4_tuning.rar

Back up link
S4 tuning.rar - 2.13MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/62293567519cee96/)

************************************************** **************-

Basic MAP location information in regards to basic tuning (thanks to Nyet for the info and NorCalS4 for putting it together):

MAP DESCRIPTIONS

FUEL

"Conversion of relative fuel mass (rk) to effective injector on time (te)" - primary fueling

"Desired Lambda for component protection" - requested lambda for component protection when calculated EGT is above "EGT threshold for component protection" (may require a lower "EGT threshold for component protection" if your MAF is not 100% compensated for in "Linearization of MAF voltage")

"Lambda - driver desired" - requested lambda when calculated EGT is below "EGT threshold for component protection"

BOOST

"Engine load desired" - specified load

"LDR altitude limitation (maximum pressure ratio)" - maximum requested pressure ratio

"Maximum specified load" - maximum specified load

"Maximum specified load IAT correction factor map" - IAT correction for maximum specified load

TIMING

"Ignition angle map"/"Ignition angle map (variant 2)" - primary timing maps. (ME7.1 has a two point variable cam timing system; there is a table for each cam timing state)

MAF

"Linearization of MAF voltage" - compensating for MAF housing diameter (note-sometime when selecting this table in tunerpro, the program crashes)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Bosch Motorsport Technical PDFs!

I think I might have just hit the motherload... I came to thinking recently that I remember about a little over a year ago seeing a Bosch Motorsports ECU which looks almost IDENTICAL to the ECU's found in our cars (and many other newer VAG cars for that matter). So I started digging with google, etc and asking a few people some questions... Well.. Seems like Bosch has recently made the software and documentation for these ECU's openly available! I doubt the software can be used to tune 'our' ECU's, BUT the documentation itself is worth it's weight in digital paper ;)

On to the good stuff...

-------------------------------
Bosch Motorsport - Software page:

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/3589.htm#a_0DEB5A9F763846A7BC0B325307803A8C

I am choosing not to hotlink directly the files from here as there is no need to upset anyone @ Bosch :)

But I downloaded the MS 4 Sport Turbo Installation CD which is approx 80MB

It will install everything you need to program the ECU's along with some very interesting PDF documents! All the code words/short names of ALL the Bosch ECU's functions. If anyone has read the .XLS files posted in nyet's webserver (http://nyet.org/cars/files) you'll notice these 'short names' in column A.

I'm going to update more as I fiddle with the software and read some more.

-------------------------------------------------

Aug. 27/09:
New info... So I decided to compare a tuned M-BOX ECU from a big name tuner to a stock M-BOX ECU and here are the following maps that were modified (pump gas tune as car as I can tell). I'm VERY surprised that no timing changes were made which kind of explains as to why my other tuned ECU seems a lot smoother and more aggressive.

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not suggesting that all of these maps NEED to be modified, I'm just listing what I have compared between a tuned ECU and a stock ECU. I have withheld the tuners name due to obvious reasons

MAPS MODIFIED M-BOX vs. STOCK M-BOX ECU:
----------------------------------------------
Engine Load Desired (KFMIRL)
Lambda map at partial load (KFLF)
Max. engine speed on speed signal error detection (automatic?) (NMAXDVG)
Time for LDR overboost active (TLDOBAN) -- All zeroed out --
Maximum load at E_ldo LDR (overboost error) (LDORXN) -- All set to max 191.25 --
LDR pressure limit at too high engine temp (LDPBN) -- All set to max 2550.00 --
rl threshhold for slow LDR-intervention (adaptation) (RLKRLDA) -- All set to max 191.25 --
LDR I-regulator limit (FFLDIMX)
Optinal engine torque map (KFMIOP)
Maximum specified load/boost pressure (LDRXN_1_A)
Maximum specified load/boost pressure during knock (LDRXNZK) -- All set to 99 --
Max vehicle speed (VAVMX/VMAX)
Max relative indicated torque under open throttle body (RLVMXN) -- Set to 181.50 to all bins --
Max relative indicated torque under open throttle body and SU (RLVSMXN) -- Set to 181.50 to all bins --
Upper load curve for DKAT active (RLDKTSO_0_A)
Hot start enrichment factor (KFHSTT)
Starting torque (KFMDST_0_A)
Exhaust backpressure correction of the secondary air mass (KFFMSML_0_A)
Characteristic curve for tmot, upper rL control limit for controller before Kat (RLLRTMO)
Characteristic curve for continuous limit value control (fr) (FQTEFR)
Afterstart enrich (FNSA_0_A)
Afterstart enrich (FNSA_1_A)

Constants changed:
-----------------------------------------------
Ramp slope during devation regulation of ASR-torque (RAMPASR)
Debounce time for end of cat heater cycles per min during idle (TKHLLAB)
Debounce time for setting of cycle flags (TDDHBKV)
Min. airmass for diagnosis condition (MLWDSLMN)
Wait time for delta-TV diagnosis (DLSA) ready-flag (TWDDTV)
Airmass threshold for dynamic testing behind cat (MLLASH)
Tank ventilation time for basic adaption (TTEGA)
Pressure gradient factor during evacuation of the brake booster via electrical pump (DPBKVEVKEP)
Factor for calculating min. pump pressure dependent on ambient pressure (FBKVP)
Maximum engine speed on speed signal error detection (NMAXDV) -- Set to MAX engine speed --
Maximum airflow for load calculation following SAE J1979 (MLMAX)
Supplemental codeword: short strip requirements display group 195 (CWFA195A)

--------------------------------------------------
M-Box Map definitions somewhat translated by me:




Inverses Pedalkennfeld für FGR-Betrieb (KFWPFGR) 12x16 (%) - Inverse Pedal recognition for FGR??-Activation
Kennfeld normierter Massenstrom über DK (KFMSNWDK) 6x16 (has km/hour and % )
Lambdakennfeld bei Teillast (KFLF) 12x16 (%) - Lambda values by half throttle
Kennfeld für Drosselklappen-Sollwinkel (KFWDKMSN) 6x16 (has km/hour and % ) - Values for Throttle body angle target
Kennfeld Meßfensteranfang Klopfregelung (KFMAKR) 4x16 (%)
vorgesteuerter Dynamikvorhalt (KFDYMNT) 8x16 (C)
Lastdynamikerkennungsschwelle (KFDYES) 6x16 (%) - Dynamic Load recognition threshold
Dynamikvorhalt Erkennungsschwelle (KFDYRS) 6x16 (%)
Dynamikvorhalt Offsetschwelle (KFDYRSOF) 6x16
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 1 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 2 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 3 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 4 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 5 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 6 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 7 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Klopferkennungsfaktorkennfeld Zündung 8 (KFKEF1) 3x16 (%)
Faktor Delta Lambdasoll für Bauteileschutz (KFFDLBTS) 16x12 (%)
Lambdasoll für Bauteileschutz (KFLBTS) 16x12 (%)
Kennfeld LDR I-Reglerbegrenzung (KFLDIMX) 8x16 (hPa) - Field for Boost Pressure Adjustment (intergral??)-limit
KF zur Linearisierung Ladedruck=f(TV) (KFLDRL) 10x16 (%) - Field for Linarization of Boost Pressure=f(TV)
LDR-Regelparameter Q0 (KFLDRQ0) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameters Q0
LDR-Reglerparameter Q1 (Integratorbeiwert) (KFLDRQ1) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameterers Q1 (Intergral values)
Kennfeld LDR-Reglerparameter Q2 (KFLDRQ2) 4x16 (hPa) - Boost pressure adjustment parameters Q2
Schwelle für dynamische Schubumluftventilsteuerung aktiv (KFSDLDSUA) 16x6 (hPa) - Threshold for dynamic Bypass Valve Control? active
optimaler Zündwinkel (KFZWOP) 11x16 (%) - Optimal Ignition Angle
optimaler Zündwinkel Variante 2 (KFZWOP2) 11x16 (%) - Optimal Ignition Angle Variant 2
Kennfeld optimales Motormoment (KFMIOP)11x16 (%)
Offset des optimalen ZW bei AGR-Betrieb (KFDZWOAGR)11x16 (%) - Offset of optimal Ignition Angle when AGR??- is active/runing
Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal (KFPED) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal
Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal für kleine Geschwindigkeiten (KFPEDL) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal for low speed
Relatives Fahrerwunschmoment aus Fahrpedal für Rückwärtsgang (KFPEDR) 12x16 (% PED) - Relative Driverswish from Pedal for in reverse gear
Kennfeld für Berechnung Sollfüllung (KFMIRL) 16x16 (%) - Calculation of Target filling?
Kennfeld optimales Motormoment (KFMIOP) 11x16 (%) -
Schleppmoment Drehzahl- und Lastabhängigkeit (KFMDS) 11x16 (%) - Engine speed drag moment and load dependancy
Kennfeld für Nockenwellenspreizung bei Katheizen (Einlaß) (KFNWKHE) 8x16 (kw %)
Sollwinkel Nockenwelle bei klopfender Verbrennung Einlaß (KFNWKRE) 8x16 (kw %)
Kennfeld für Nockenwellenspreizung (Einlaß) (KFNWSE) 8x16 (kw %)
Kennfeld für Nockenwellenspreizung im Warmlauf (Einlaß) (KFNWWLE) 8x16 (kw %)
Korrekturfaktor Kraftstoffversorgungssystem (FKKVS) 16x16 (ms (up to 19... injectors...????) - Correctionfactor of fuel supply system
Schließzeitkorrektur in Abhängigkeit von UB (KFSZDUB) (no rpm ....V vs ms)
Zündwinkelkennfeld (KFZW) 12x16 (grad KW %) - Ignition advance lookup field
Zündwinkelkennfeld Variante 2 (KFZW2)12x16 (grad KW %) - Ignition advance lookup field Variant 2
delta Zündwinkel bei Dauerklopfen (KFDZK)12x16 (grad KW %) - delta of Ignition angle by constant Knock
Schwelle der ZW-Spätverstellungen für ZW-Kennfeldumschaltung (KFSWKFZK)12x16 (grad KW %)
Kennfeld mit dauerhaft spätest möglichem Zündwinkel (KFZWMS)12x16 (grad KW %)
Min-Zündwinkel (KFZWMN)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle
Min-Zündwinkel Katheizen (KFZWMNKH)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle by Catalytic heating
Min-Zündwinkel für Start und Nachstart (KFZWMNST)12x16 (grad KW %) - Minimum Ignition Angle for Start and Afterstart

[NOTORIOUS VR]

HOW-TO BENCH FLASH YOUR S4 ECU USING GALLETTO

The basics of what you NEED to know:
**************************************************
1. Use Galletto when possible, it allows you to flash in boot mode (when on the bench) and is MUCH faster then the regular old OBD KWP2000 protocol in slow mode. I have only used Galletto so far and it's always worked for me!
2. Bench flash your ECU with a good DC power supply set to 13.5V! Don't even bother to flash in your car under it's own battery power. If you have to flash in the car at least connect a batter charger!
3. MAKE SURE YOU MAKE A BACKUP OF YOUR ECU FIRST! YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO A RUNNING ECU IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG!!!

With that out of the way, reading and writing to the ECU is pretty simple and everything I explain here will assume you're bench flashing.

1. With the ECU open and on the bench connected to your bench flash harness make sure the power supply is on, but the ignition switch is off (or whatever you use to simulate the ignition switch), connect your KWP2000 cable to the OBD port and start Galletto.

2. You now need to touch PIN 24 on the flash chip (800BB) to ground before turning on your switch/ignition signal. PIN 24 the the 2nd one in from the left side on the bottom. The chip when you're looking at it should have a circle in the top right hand corner (indicating PIN 1). Also the ECU's plugs will be facing to the RIGHT! Once you touch PIN 24 to ground, turn on the ignition switch and remove the ground from PIN 24 about 2-3 seconds later. You are now in BOOT MODE.


http://schnell-engineering.com/ME7_files/docs/pics/ME7.1-bootmode-info_resized.png
pic curtesy of Nye!

3. In Galletto, select Audi from the top drop down box (MAKER), and then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the next drop down (DRIVER) to the BOOT MODE section where you will find two choices. You'll probably want the 800BB flash selection (if in doubt verify what it says on the flash chip).

http://www.automania-no1.com/images/1245.PNG

4. Click on the ECU Data button and allow it to complete, you should see some numbers appear in the top left box (sometimes you also see the words: "ECU NUMBER NOT FOUND" which seems to be ok too so don't worry if you see that).

To "read" the ECU and save a .bin to your computer click on the Read ECU button (this is where you can backup your ECU just in case! So do it NOW!), to write a .bin file to your ECU (either tuned or stock) click on Open File then select the .bin file you want to program into the ECU and then click on Download File.

One quick thing about this... Once you put the ECU in BOOT MODE, any time you remove power or turn off the ignition switch you will need to apply ground to PIN 24 again just before turning the ECU on again to do any functions in Galletto on the bench. I have also found that even though Galletto asks you to turn on/off the ECU during certain operations (IE. when you click on ECU Data and then want to write a file using Download File you DO NOT have to turn the ECU off and then on again. It works just fine leaving it on as long as you haven't done a read/write procedure yet (or either Read ECU or Download File buttons).

************************************************** ****-
These are the basics to getting a successful flash on and off your ECU.

I will later post up how to correct the checksums on a modified .bin file due to changes made in TunerPro. [up]

I will also post up the pins on the ECU that you need to connect and the pins on the OBD port plug to make a bench harness. Obviously you'll need a spare ECU plug (only the bigger one of the two) and a spare OBD port plug. Eventually I might even start to sell a pre-made bench flash harness, but that's not really a priority right now. For the ones that are really interested, if you cannot make a bench flash harness from scratch leave the tuning/flashing to someone else IMO.

************************************************** ******

I feel I need to amend this thread with a final few points.

While this thread was good to gather some info and get the ball rolling, most if not all the current and new information is now located on the NefMoto forum and the S4 Wiki.

Links:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php

http://www.s4wiki.com/


Truth be told I don't have the time nor is it worth it to maintain a thread like this, because information becomes very scattered.

Also I would like to ask that people stop PM'ing me about getting them tunes, or tuning their cars for them. This is not something that I offer to the public. I don't have time to tune your car. If and when I decide to release my tunes I will do so.

The whole purpose of this thread is to get people started with learning how to be able to tune their ME7 ECU. It's not here to save you $1000 so you can get some novice tuner to possibly blow up your car. I would like to remind people just because you have the knowledge to change things inside an ECU doesn't mean you should!

[JDM EJ1 95]

good post... i have been wondering this for quite some time.

[jibberjive]

Good on you for setting up this thread. I hope you have the determination to see this through and get some good info out to the masses. Part of the reason why you don't see more info on this is not solely because of money (though I'm sure that's a huge part of it for the shops), it really is very complicated. There's a couple people who have been working on tuning their own cars and may be willing to help you, look up Nyet on AW and there's some others too. I'll comment again when I remember their names.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^thanks for the input... I will try to contact him.

Thing is, this is not easy and shouldn't be seen as such. It will take some time to figure out, and I'm going to say this right now that I'm only interested in being able to tune the ECU's in our S4's and nothing else. Although I'm sure information that will hopefully come of this thread will be able to be easily used to tune pretty much any other ECU in the Motronic family with some work.

I'm not doing this for monetary gain, I'm doing this for myself and others that wish to unlock their ECUs. Although this may cost me some money by the time I'm ready to attempt a tune, as long as it isn't outrageous I will continue to research this.

[jibberjive]

and BTW, the people and type of info you're looking for is more likely on Audiworld, but be sure to post your findings here as well[up]

[MAKK]

This is something I would also like to know but don't have the time to research all of it, good for you and good luck. Keep us updated...

[Enclave]

Look up chiptuners.org. There are quite a bit of ME7.x.x research/information there. 2 guys that you should talk to are Nyet and reflected (K0mpressed on this board).

Anyway imo, the reason that the Japanese community have enjoyed "open source" tuning software has more to do with the simplicity of their ECUs. ME7.x.x is very complicated with multiple maps for every condition.

Most likely you will never get full or basic control of the ecu to do reasonable tuning. SEM is the way to go if you want that.

[Reich]

Good info here. I've always wonder that too.
Please keep us updated.

[AK1RA07]

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Motronic_abbreviations

[nthusiastt]

Anyway imo, the reason that the Japanese community have enjoyed "open source" tuning software has more to do with the simplicity of their ECUs. ME7.x.x is very complicated with multiple maps for every condition.


Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.

[veggiemonster]

Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda's guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.

this is the first time i would agree with you out of any post you ever made [o_o]

to the OP-good luck with further research and tuning your car if you make it that far down the road

[AK1RA07]

Having the ability to load multiple maps doesn't add a significant ammount of complexity to tunning. I think the reason information is more readily available in the Japanese community is because japanese cars aren't as punishing to the wallet if you make a mistake. That and honda/toyota tuners after pushing the bar actually share all the details of the build. VAG and DTM tuners hoard what they have researched ultimately retard any major forward progression in the performance of our vehicles. Compared to what the Honda guys have accomplished we haven't accomplished shit.

Displaying the multiple maps isn't really the issue, there's already software out there for this.. its finding out what the maps control, what the axis's are on the maps, scaling factors/equations, etc, then finding a way to attractive, open source way to display it for Joey Tunesabunch so he doesn't blow up his car. DAMOS files will help, if you know German.

[nthusiastt]

Displaying the multiple maps isn't really the issue, there's already software out there for this.. its finding out what the maps control, what the axis's are on the maps, scaling factors/equations, etc, then finding a way to attractive, open source way to display it for Joey Tunesabunch so he doesn't blow up his car. DAMOS files will help, if you know German.

There really aren't any equations involved in tunning. Most of that is integrated into the tunning software. Finding the perfect fuel curve and ignition/timming is the key to a positive tune.

[Evilevo]

There is a bunch of stuff on audiworld. About using Tunerpro and some other files. Havent really looked into it tho

[AK1RA07]

There really aren't any equations involved in tunning..

[>_<]

How do you plan on changing the fueling/timing maps if you don't know the equations involved in the maps?..

If you think ME7 is so kind as to label their maps axises of RPM, lambda, and fuel enrichment, etc, in percentages, degrees, or whole numbers which correspond to their actual values, I suggest doing some more research.

Here's an example from a Porsche 944.. not running ME7 obviously, but an OLDER version of Motronic.. this is the kind of thing you're up against.

http://motronic.ws/rpm.htm

[Das General]

http://nyet.org/cars/files/8D0907551M-20081221.xdf

[NOTORIOUS VR]

http://nyet.org/cars/files/8D0907551M-20081221.xdf

Hmmmm I have that file already... I totally didn't think that it was a damos file.... But now I see that it's a damos for an M box!

So now the only thing I'm gonna have to do is figure out where to get a program to correct the checksum's (without spending an arm, leg and head).

Thanks for pointing that out!

[nthusiastt]

[>_<]

How do you plan on changing the fueling/timing maps if you don't know the equations involved in the maps?..


My understanding is the map is the element were you specify the duty cycle of your injectors under specific conditions (IAT's, throttle position, RPM, and load). Inputing data into these cells did not require any precalculations on my part. Even though I'm using an aem ems the terms are the same across all engine management systems. Are you saying the me7 requires you to input these calculations before you can adjust your map?



If you think ME7 is so kind as to label their maps axises of RPM, lambda, and fuel enrichment, etc, in percentages, degrees, or whole numbers which correspond to their actual values, I suggest doing some more research.

Here's an example from a Porsche 944.. not running ME7 obviously, but an OLDER version of Motronic.. this is the kind of thing you're up against.

http://motronic.ws/rpm.htm

Interesting, I'm not quite sure how the ME7 works but from what your telling me it sounds like engineering left out these very simple algorithms that would make tunning a basic function.

[jibberjive]

AielloS4 on AW might be another guy you want to talk to http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2743733

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ Awesome... I know it's stalled a bit, I've been sick for the past few days and haven't felt much like going out in the cold to try things... I have also noticed I need to setup the software on an XP machine. Vista isn't a good platform for the tuning software.

[wdbdy2000s4]

I have also noticed I need to setup the software on an XP machine. Vista isn't a good platform for the tuning software.

...Or any non-microsoft product...I do love my vista though for basic functions. It hasn't given me the blue screen of death, froze or crashed once in the past 6 months...I couldn't say the same for any other Microsoft operating system I've owned.

[AWD G 882]

What we need is something like this - www.dsmlink.com/

[jibberjive]

I was randomly looking at some specs of AWE's old Silver Bullet and came across some interesting reading material regarding tuning the ME7. Check this and page 3 out
http://europeancar.automotive.com/84300/epcp-0212-awe-tuning-2000-sudi-s4-awe-tuning/garrett-integrated-automotive-corp.html

[NOTORIOUS VR]

And this is why the European tuning marking is so slow and expensive:


He used to sell that tuning suite to anybody who wanted to buy it-up until a couple years ago. We convinced him it wasn't a good idea, since it was allowing our competitors to get an edge.

[csre9]

And this is why the European tuning marking is so slow and expensive:

true.

The raw carbon-hooded car with the stock KO3 turbos runs with the factory-supplied injectors, though a 5-bar fuel pressure regulator has been installed to increase the pressure at the rails. The ignition also remains factory stock, but a prototype airbox has been installed that capitalizes on space freed up by the front-mounted

That was somewhere in that article,
HOW DID THEY RUN A 5BAR FPR ON KO3'S?

[MAKK]

What we need is something like this - www.dsmlink.com/

Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...

[XSilverJ]

Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...

Was thinking the exact same thing when I was at the dyno with my DSM buddy's the other day. All of them using DSMlink.. I was kind of envious.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

HOW DID THEY RUN A 5BAR FPR ON KO3'S?

Running a higher rail pressure isn't an issue when you can tune the ECU (which they can)... So essentially they're just making the factory injectors larger by running then at higher pressure (which some will argue will give even better atomization at the same time).

[wdbdy2000s4]

...So essentially they're just making the factory injectors larger by running then at higher pressure (which some will argue will give even better atomization at the same time).

I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.

[Evilevo]

I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.

Increased Fuel Pressure basically increases the size of the injectors....

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

Will show you the different sizes per BAR

[wdbdy2000s4]

stock injectors with a 5 bar FPR will flow more fuel but it will stress the living shit out of the injectors. I wouldn't want to run a 150% IDC on my car.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.

When you increase the rail pressure, you're actually able to decrease injector duty cycle. That's the whole point.

[Evilevo]

stock injectors with a 5 bar FPR will flow more fuel but it will stress the living shit out of the injectors. I wouldn't want to run a 150% IDC on my car.

I never said it was smart. I just said you can do it. But than again, i dont ever plan on running K03s or injectors that small, so it doesn't affect me.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I feel like the improvement in atomization would hardly outweigh the risk of running a 150% duty cycle on a motor this expensive.

It's obviously a band-aid. Bigger injectors are better. Not to mention you'd better be sure that your fuel pump is up to the task when running high rail pressures...

5 BAR = 72.5psi + 20psi boost = 92.5 psi... That's a lot.. and many fuel pumps don't flow well/much at such high pressures.

[AWD G 882]

[QUOTE=MAKK;3523067]Good luck, I have owned 3 DSMs and two of them had DSMLink. Very easy to tune for sure, someone would make a killing if they developed something like that for our cars...[/QUOTE
May be we should try talking to those guys...

[XSilverJ]

May be we should try talking to those guys...

http://www.dsmlink.com/

Go for it..

[MAKK]

From what I have researched they put A LOT of time into the DSMLink, and I seriously doubt they would be interested at all in the Audi ECUs.... [:(]

[XSilverJ]

I have a few DSM buddies that personal friends with the guys that make DSMlink.. I guess it's only 2 guys (pretty impressive), and they barely have time to do Evo's and are working there asses off to finish V3. I guess they do wanna branch off to other cars but they think Subaru's might be next.

[AK1RA07]

I have a few DSM buddies that personal friends with the guys that make DSMlink.. I guess it's only 2 guys (pretty impressive), and they barely have time to do Evo's and are working there asses off to finish V3. I guess they do wanna branch off to other cars but they think Subaru's might be next.

That seems silly, they already have that stuff open sourced.

http://forums.openecu.org/

Nice to see some real enthusiasts, not like some of us, always fighting ourselves.

[k0mpresd]

here you go. youre welcome. ;) http://nyet.org/cars/files/

i tuned the file thats on my ecu. not that its anything special or anything.

[AudiA4_20T]

here you go. youre welcome. ;) http://nyet.org/cars/files/

i tuned the file thats on my ecu. not that its anything special or anything.

lol derek already posted that

[k0mpresd]

f*ck. thats what i get for not reading the thread. :p

[k0mpresd]

here, maybe i can redeem myself with this one. ida plugin for bosch me7 files. http://rapidshare.com/files/213811988/boschme7x.rar.html edit: make sure you have your file split in to the 2 files. 1 file = first 64kb (bootloader ? it must be. the first set of instructions in an embedded system is always the bl). 2nd file = rest of file. andy shows you how to load them in to ida in his videos.

ive got a cracked ecux on my laptop but its in the car and im on my pc.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Time for a bump! I've finally got my laptop reinstalled with XP... and WinOLS as well as some other programs are working very well now.

First off... does anyone know how to get in contact with the guy who made this site?
http://nyet.org/cars/files/
http://nyet.org/cars/

Because he clearly has figured it out somehow and custom tuned his car, and using TunerPro his .xdf file (map definitions) does show up properly. What I would like to know is some clarification on the unit's and also were the modifications done in TunerPro and then the checksums corrected in say WinOLS?

If anyone else what's to chime in on this (or supply a .damos LOL) that would be great!

Also, kOmpressed, what is that file you're talking about? Split in two? ida plugin (what's an ida)? huh? lol

[jibberjive]

Time for a bump! I've finally got my laptop reinstalled with XP... and WinOLS as well as some other programs are working very well now.

First off... does anyone know how to get in contact with the guy who made this site?
http://nyet.org/cars/files/
http://nyet.org/cars/

Because he clearly has figured it out somehow and custom tuned his car, and using TunerPro his .xdf file (map definitions) does show up properly. What I would like to know is some clarification on the unit's and also were the modifications done in TunerPro and then the checksums corrected in say WinOLS?

If anyone else what's to chime in on this (or supply a .damos LOL) that would be great!

Also, kOmpressed, what is that file you're talking about? Split in two? ida plugin (what's an ida)? huh? lol

Look up his name on AW and QW, maybe you can email him from there, screenname Nyet

[AK1RA07]

Time for a bump! I've finally got my laptop reinstalled with XP... and WinOLS as well as some other programs are working very well now.

First off... does anyone know how to get in contact with the guy who made this site?
http://nyet.org/cars/files/
http://nyet.org/cars/

Because he clearly has figured it out somehow and custom tuned his car, and using TunerPro his .xdf file (map definitions) does show up properly. What I would like to know is some clarification on the unit's and also were the modifications done in TunerPro and then the checksums corrected in say WinOLS?

If anyone else what's to chime in on this (or supply a .damos LOL) that would be great!

Also, kOmpressed, what is that file you're talking about? Split in two? ida plugin (what's an ida)? huh? lol

PM'ed .. post up what you find out, I still need to install XP on this laptop. [:o]

IDAPro is a program used for disassembly : http://www.hex-rays.com/idapro/

k0mpressed, can you rehost that Rapidshare link?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ Thanks again for your help.

So a little update again (two in one day not bad! LOL), I've been trying to get a feeling for WinOLS, I think that will be the next biggest step. I have for now forgotten about TunerPro (although it's been said to me it works well, so that is something to keep in mind here) and decided to work only with WinOLS as that pretty much the standard edit software it seems.

Currently once I've got most of the functions down pat I will be making my own damos file for the M-box ECU's. That will clearly take some time on my part unless someone can tell me how to import a axis description profile (haven't been able to figure that out yet) if that is even possible.

So back to work I go...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

BUMP! Added some VERY interesting info to POST #2 (on Pg. 1)!

[jibberjive]

BUMP! Added some VERY interesting info to POST #2 (on Pg. 1)!
Word! Is this new stuff, or has it been around for a while and you just didn't know about it? Keep at it!

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ I'm pretty sure it's fairly new.... I remember when I was first looking @ the Motorsport ECU's I didn't find anything except PDF's that described the general usage and options of the ECU's.

Either way, it's a ton of info that is very useful and I wanted to make sure that it's put out there. :)

[NorCalS4]

That seems silly, they already have that stuff open sourced.

http://forums.openecu.org/

Nice to see some real enthusiasts, not like some of us, always fighting ourselves.

This is where you need to go. I have been heavily involved with open souce ECU flashing on the EVO since it started. The Subaru community also has a lot of open source flashing stuff. On the EVO forums there is smart people always "disassembling" ROMS and find all the maps and ways to flash them. I was thinking of talking to some of them and seeing if they could looking into an S4 ECU. All they would need is an ECU.

If you guys saw the ECUflash forums on the EVO board, you guys would shit yourself. Everyday they find new tuning table,come up with new great mods etc. its dope.

edit- when i say mods, they have stuff like map switching (w/o laptop or reflash), having the check engine light flash on user set knock levels, valet maps, etc. We have also changed the boost control from load based to psi based and have found many boost control mods, in the ECU.

As for people saying we need something like DSMlink, HELL NO. Dsmlink takes installing a socket and is not true flashing. Hell now the 2gen DSM kids are puttin EVO ECUs into them so they can use all the cool flashing and loggin tools us EVO kids have. I have an EVO ECU on my table right now, about to go into my brothers 2nd gen GST in a week or so.

Anyways, im going gonna hit up some open source EVO flashing people and see if they can help. Ill report in a couple days.

OPEN SOURCE FLASHING FTMFW

[NorCalS4]

Check out the EVU ECU wiki

http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/Main_Page

[Evilevo]

This is where you need to go. I have been heavily involved with open souce ECU flashing on the EVO since it started. The Subaru community also has a lot of open source flashing stuff. On the EVO forums there is smart people always "disassembling" ROMS and find all the maps and ways to flash them. I was thinking of talking to some of them and seeing if they could looking into an S4 ECU. All they would need is an ECU.

If you guys saw the ECUflash forums on the EVO board, you guys would shit yourself. Everyday they find new tuning table,come up with new great mods etc. its dope.

edit- when i say mods, they have stuff like map switching (w/o laptop or reflash), having the check engine light flash on user set knock levels, valet maps, etc. We have also changed the boost control from load based to psi based and have found many boost control mods, in the ECU.

As for people saying we need something like DSMlink, HELL NO. Dsmlink takes installing a socket and is not true flashing. Hell now the 2gen DSM kids are puttin EVO ECUs into them so they can use all the cool flashing and loggin tools us EVO kids have. I have an EVO ECU on my table right now, about to go into my brothers 2nd gen GST in a week or so.

Anyways, im going gonna hit up some open source EVO flashing people and see if they can help. Ill report in a couple days.

OPEN SOURCE FLASHING FTMFW

Agreed, I started doing alot of the mods to my Evo ecu before i sold it. I wish we had that kind of opensource support!

[AudiA4_20T]

This is where you need to go. I have been heavily involved with open souce ECU flashing on the EVO since it started. The Subaru community also has a lot of open source flashing stuff. On the EVO forums there is smart people always "disassembling" ROMS and find all the maps and ways to flash them. I was thinking of talking to some of them and seeing if they could looking into an S4 ECU. All they would need is an ECU.

If you guys saw the ECUflash forums on the EVO board, you guys would shit yourself. Everyday they find new tuning table,come up with new great mods etc. its dope.

edit- when i say mods, they have stuff like map switching (w/o laptop or reflash), having the check engine light flash on user set knock levels, valet maps, etc. We have also changed the boost control from load based to psi based and have found many boost control mods, in the ECU.

As for people saying we need something like DSMlink, HELL NO. Dsmlink takes installing a socket and is not true flashing. Hell now the 2gen DSM kids are puttin EVO ECUs into them so they can use all the cool flashing and loggin tools us EVO kids have. I have an EVO ECU on my table right now, about to go into my brothers 2nd gen GST in a week or so.

Anyways, im going gonna hit up some open source EVO flashing people and see if they can help. Ill report in a couple days.

OPEN SOURCE FLASHING FTMFW

the problem with our ECUs is that they have 5000+ maps

[AK1RA07]

I doubt that the major tuners are modding 5000+ maps when we buy tunes from them though.. there's probably a handful of primary ones they use.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ Agreed... I also doubt that adding and removing features to the ECU will be easy...

Motronic was built by Germans.... way too complicated for their own good LOL

[AudiA4_20T]

I doubt that the major tuners are modding 5000+ maps when we buy tunes from them though.. there's probably a handful of primary ones they use.

this is very true. Probably around 10

[Don Supreme]

this is very true. Probably around 10

Revo claims 30! [:)]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

There are a lot of 'modifier' maps.... Problem is, this isn't anything like tuning a stand alone (which is what I'm used to)... A torque based system (and a Motronic ECU at that) get very complicated quite quickly... seeing as there are many corrections to be done to get to the final injection, ignition and boost request.

That's probably going to be the hardest part of all this after getting all the maps properly defined.

[dfaudi]

Any progress on the WinOLS?

[niterydr]

Excellent to find another group of individuals working in this task. The only thing I've found has been the lemmiwinks software for my a6 2.7t. That has allowed me to make some basic changes, but I really want the ability (or even need) to adjust all the parameters in my ecu myself.

My tuning background is with standalones and piggybacks. EFI 101 and EFI Advanced University certified as well as AEM EMS factory trained. I use to co-own a performance shop with an awd dyno dynamics dyno and have extensive experience with tuning vehicles. My weakness in this department is the interfacing of chipping and decifying hex code. I've done it back when dsm's were chipped, but it is not a strength.
What bugs me is the overall lack of support for this ecu. I find to be mindboggling. There are a handful of companies out there fighting for a dwindling market to sell them chips, where there are quite a few people out there, myself included, that would pay serious $$ to just have a program ready to use. Something like dsmlink, open ecu, heck anything that just has the files out there.

There have been some great programs posted in this thread that I will try to use tomorrow to attempt to pull any files of my PCM. [wrench]

Ready and willing to help out with anything I can. Hopefully I can pull some files and then just look for changes to help to start to identify what maps are for what.

http://www.freediag.org/opendiag/

That archive of information lead to some interesting discussions.

http://www.andywhittaker.com/

This guy has seem to gotten pretty far disassembling and identifying some information on the ecu's as well.

Hopefully I can be productive tomorrow and pull some info out of the Audi. Thank you all for your contributions thus far on this thread!

-Josh

[the dog]

I think I can help you get started. Together maybe we could actually get somewhere..
I already talk to Boris and notorious vr with pms but they seem to loose interest.....
Pm me your email and we will talk from there.......

[NorCalS4]

^^

I will be hopefully reading my stock ROM soon. A new version of the new EVO flashing program was released that allows reading of other ECUs fro development reason.

[NorCalS4]

okay, another find. Found a cable and program that is made to pull the ROM (stock image) off the ME7.1 ECU. Ordering ASAP.

EDIT- ORDERED!!!

[the dog]

:). I already read my original chip months ago.....
As I said before pm me with your email

[NorCalS4]

:). I already read my original chip months ago.....
As I said before pm me with your email

Pm'd

have you disassembled it at all? Find any tables?

[the dog]

I have spend a lot of hours trying to work things out but I got nowhere......
I can find more than one maps for boost,timing etc.....
So its not that easy to modify them....This is where I got stuck....
I tried to change a value of a map that I think is the duty of the N75 (boost) and I reflashed it back on the ecu, but I saw no diffrence at all. ...I have the tool to easily flash it....

[wdbdy2000s4]

talk to nyet on QW. He can point you in the right direction.

Viperbl on here might be able to help you out a little too. Not sure though

[dfaudi]

I have spend a lot of hours trying to work things out but I got nowhere......
I can find more than one maps for boost,timing etc.....
So its not that easy to modify them....This is where I got stuck....
I tried to change a value of a map that I think is the duty of the N75 (boost) and I reflashed it back on the ecu, but I saw no diffrence at all. ...I have the tool to easily flash it....

What exact tool did you get to read/flash to the ecu?...ive seen a bunch of flash tools on ebay etc. but im not sure which is the best. And when it comes to my applicatoin it says something about boot mode?? There is this Galletto flasher but i didnt get a response when i emailed the e-store.
http://www.51vag.com/eobd2-galletto-1260-p-49.html

Also what software are you using to go through the maps?? WinOLS?
Yes, i've spoken to a few tuners who have said that you have to change a few maps in order to change boost, fuel, etc.

Im down to put in some time and money for this.

[dfaudi]

Anyone here have winols 1226? Ive been told that the software to use.

[the dog]

What exact tool did you get to read/flash to the ecu?...ive seen a bunch of flash tools on ebay etc. but im not sure which is the best. And when it comes to my applicatoin it says something about boot mode?? There is this Galletto flasher but i didnt get a response when i emailed the e-store.
http://www.51vag.com/eobd2-galletto-1260-p-49.html

Also what software are you using to go through the maps?? WinOLS?
Yes, i've spoken to a few tuners who have said that you have to change a few maps in order to change boost, fuel, etc.

Im down to put in some time and money for this.

You will need to bench flash your ecu to get it to read/write safely with galleto. I can help you with the boot pin.
You simple need to ground a pin on the ecu board.So you need to open the ecu,have 12v power to it, ground,kline etc to make it work.It not as hard as it sounds.
I use MPPS flash tool (pricy) to flash from the OBD port...
pm send

[the dog]

So...What do we do next?

[niterydr]

Hello, nice info.

Like I mentioned above, Im from the EVO community and they have major open source stuff going on. So i made a thread over there asking if maybe some of them can help with this project.

heres the link
http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/431130-disassemblers-please-read-new-platform.html

Saw that over on evom (same SN on most forums, I was the most active on the 3000gt/stealth communities).

I will try to use the ecuflash to pull my file tonight and see what I come up with. I've got a few different readers I can try that might work I've used for flashing gm's, subaru's, evo's, dsm's, honda's before. Hopefully one of them can pull it.

I was really motivated to work on this when I first got the car, thanks for the motivation again.

[NorCalS4]

So...What do we do next?

Well, I have sent an email to nyet. It seems that he learned how to custom tune his S4, so I am asking him if he'd share his method or what he did to successfully flash and tune his car. Also, (read below)


Saw that over on evom (same SN on most forums, I was the most active on the 3000gt/stealth communities).

I will try to use the ecuflash to pull my file tonight and see what I come up with. I've got a few different readers I can try that might work I've used for flashing gm's, subaru's, evo's, dsm's, honda's before. Hopefully one of them can pull it.

I was really motivated to work on this when I first got the car, thanks for the motivation again.

I also am messing with ECUflash and S4 roms and seeing if I can get something started. I also ordered a cable w/ software to pull my ROM, but we already have ROMs available to us. It looks like on nyet has all the stock ROM on his page. What we need most is people to disassemble (find all the needed tables) the ROM and people to write definition files (the correct parameters to veiw and change the tables in the ROM) for these ROMS. I, even though having tuned, flashed, edited ROMs and definition files, I cant disassemble or write a definition file from scratch.

But we just need more people on this project and i believe in no time well have a solution

[the dog]

What do you guys think? N75 duty cycle?
The translator says "KF linearization to boost = f (TV) (10x16)"

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/damos-1.jpg

[NorCalS4]

What do you guys think? N75 duty cycle?
The translator says "KF linearization to boost = f (TV) (10x16)"

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/damos-1.jpg

LOL. I have no idea. Even though i have flashed tuned ECUs, modified ROMS and definition files. I dont know how to disassemble or how to write a definition file from scratch. I think I have found a few people that can help though, hopefully they respond shortly.

[complacentsee]

You have a bigger picture? would help to know the units

[the dog]

The units are
U/min (rpm) from 1000 to 6900
I think %= is the load .up to 95%
The other axel is not named and was 0 values in it BUT the 3d drawing shows values.I think thats the n75 duty cycle....

The think that put my off is that at wot the duty is constant,which this is not the case for a stock car.It will never have constant boost with constant duty cycle.

[the dog]

This just may be a boost cut map....
If the actual value of the boost is higher than the one show on the map it throws a cell and takes the car in safe mode..

I think I will conitrate on the n75 boost map for now.... Anyone was a vagcom log showing channel 118 at WOT from 2000 to redline of the S4/RS4 2.7T?

[NorCalS4]

Okay, major progress. Stay tuned.

[NorCalS4]

Okay, I have done a lot of work today and believe I have identified all the tables need to tune. I already ordered a cable and software that is suppose to be able to read and write ROMs. It should be here soon. After I do some trail flashes and testing, Ill have more info....

[rarak69]

way to go brother! what cable you get?

[the dog]

I can try them now. I allready have the tool....
Send a pm with map and address

[NorCalS4]

What program are you using to flash and read ROMs? does it make the ROM file a .bin file? more importantly, can it load a .bin or .ecu file?

[NorCalS4]

Also, what year car and ECU box do you have??

[the dog]

I have 2 tools to flash the ecu and I am waiting for delivery of a third one
1.Mpps.
2.Galleto (bench flash)

I am waiting for cmd

They both load bin files
My ecu is a 2000 agb S4 with 8D0907551C ecu....
I also have a 1.8T B6 and TT (7.5) that I can play around with.So please send the address and map description so I can check them,twaek them and try them out....

[NorCalS4]

I have 2 tools to flash the ecu and I am waiting for delivery of a third one
1.Mpps.
2.Galleto (bench flash)

I am waiting for cmd

They both load bin files
My ecu is a 2000 agb S4 with 8D0907551C ecu....
I also have a 1.8T B6 and TT (7.5) that I can play around with.So please send the address and map description so I can check them,twaek them and try them out....

I dont have the address' for C-box. Im only doing the M box ecu so I dont know if it will work, as I already trying to look at other box ROMs and they wouldnt work. I can email you a modified Mbox ROM (3k rev limit) and you can seee if it will flash and work.

Also, couple more questions. Whats Mpps? what do you mean by "bench flash"? Whats cmd? Also do these programs just use a laptop & cable to flash?

[NorCalS4]

I just tried looking at a C-box ROM and everything is off when using the m-box definitions, so the address' for the m-box and c-box are different.

[NorCalS4]

What do you guys think? N75 duty cycle?
The translator says "KF linearization to boost = f (TV) (10x16)"

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/damos-1.jpg

Im pretty sure this is the "Map for linearization of boost pressure = f (TV)" map.

x-axis should be TPS % and y axis should be RPM

[rarak69]

I dont have the address' for C-box. Im only doing the M box ecu so I dont know if it will work, as I already trying to look at other box ROMs and they wouldnt work. I can email you a modified Mbox ROM (3k rev limit) and you can seee if it will flash and work.

Also, couple more questions. Whats Mpps? what do you mean by "bench flash"? Whats cmd? Also do these programs just use a laptop & cable to flash?


MPPS is the new kwp2000 tool from amt cartech.
bench flash is taking the ecu out, using "bench flash cables" just get cables from a junk yard to hook ecu up to a 12v power supply and obd2 connector, then put it in boot mode by grounding out the boot pin on the ecu.
CMD, i think thats a BDM tool, it connects directly to the ecu pad's to program, like they do from factory. this is what they use on the mk5's i believe.

[NorCalS4]

MPPS is the new kwp2000 tool from amt cartech.
bench flash is taking the ecu out, using "bench flash cables" just get cables from a junk yard to hook ecu up to a 12v power supply and obd2 connector, then put it in boot mode by grounding out the boot pin on the ecu.
CMD, i think thats a BDM tool, it connects directly to the ecu pad's to program, like they do from factory. this is what they use on the mk5's i believe.

Okay, a couple things. first, can the S4 ECU be programmed by the OBD2 port? If yes, which programs can do it? Also, does anyone here know how to put the S4 ecu into boot mode?

[rarak69]

Okay, a couple things. first, can the S4 ECU be programmed by the OBD2 port? If yes, which programs can do it? Also, does anyone here know how to put the S4 ecu into boot mode?

yes it can via the obd2 port as many tuners do, software to do this is rather expensive, i have had no luck with other software that is available(kwp2000+ me7 genesis, galletto 1250)
boot mode, theres two pads on the board you can bride on 1.8t ecu's, s4 ecu's i think you must ground the pin on the flash directly. im not 100% on the s4, i can give it a run this week sometime when i get a chance, havnt messed with my s4 yet.

theres a guy over on vortex, and maybe here, he has self tuned his 1.8t BT, using boot mode id assume. search that guy out, it was in the motronic forum i saw his posts.

[NorCalS4]

^
Okay. Do you have kwp2000+ me7 genesis, galletto 1250??

also dont the 1.8t have different ECUs.

I believe your right on having to ground a pin to get it into boot mode. now we just have to figure out which pin.

Also, I believe the dog has a way to flash and read, maybe he'll enlighten use. Also I have a stock S4 ROM that I changed the rev limiter to 3k that I want him to try to use, to see if it works.

[rarak69]

yea the dog has mpps, thats supposed to be a pretty nice setup. that should do the obd2 flash no problem.

i do have kwp2000 and galletto tools,

the 1.8t ecu's are pretty close to the same. theres an immo chip on them, s4's dont. but the flash procedure is the same more or less. without me ripping my ecu out, what chips in the s4 ecu, do you have one handy? just look at the chip, and look up the schematic online for it. it should tell you what pin it is

[the dog]

First thing first....
What does the "Map for linearization of boost pressure = f (TV) map" do?

Boot mode for 400BB chip...

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/BOOT_1.jpg

Power up the ecu and ground the contact shown. Notes how the circuit lets to a 'leg' of the chip...Remove ground BUT NOT the power...You are in boot mode now and you can read/write ...If you need help with wiring the pins to the odb plug of the flash tool (galleto etc) let me know...

The 800BB (S4) chips need to ground the exact some 'leg' of the chip but there is no contact to ground.You have to ground the 'leg'. Also note that the chip is located at a different location than pictured.

I use MPPS to OBD flash the tune....Easy and fast....
I only use galleto when I have a problem with the obd flash...
CMD is also a OBD flash but it can also flash ME17 ecus (1.8TFSI etc)

You allready have my email to send me the


PS....I am NOT a profesional.....

[rarak69]

looks like the 1.8t ecu that i played with, two pins like that.


pin 24 or 25 sound right to you dog?

[NorCalS4]

First thing first....
What does the "Map for linearization of boost pressure = f (TV) map" do?

Boot mode for 400BB chip...

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/BOOT_1.jpg

Power up the ecu and ground the contact shown. Notes how the circuit lets to a 'leg' of the chip...Remove ground BUT NOT the power...You are in boot mode now and you can read/write ...If you need help with wiring the pins to the odb plug of the flash tool (galleto etc) let me know...

The 800BB (S4) chips need to ground the exact some 'leg' of the chip but there is no contact to ground.You have to ground the 'leg'. Also note that the chip is located at a different location than pictured.

I use MPPS to OBD flash the tune....Easy and fast....
I only use galleto when I have a problem with the obd flash...
CMD is also a OBD flash but it can also flash ME17 ecus (1.8TFSI etc)

You allready have my email to send me the


PS....I am NOT a profesional.....

I dont know what the "Map for linearization of boost pressure = f (TV) map" does. I have what seems like complete definitions and can see the names for all the maps and all the values correctly, but i dont know what maps do what. I believe I have identified the main timing maps, fuel maps and maps for rev limiters, but there is 144 maps total. About half are 2D and half are 3D.

Okay, what program and cable or such do i have to get to do OBD port flashing on the S4s? MPPS?? how much do those cost and do you have a link?

Okay I sent you a modified M-box ROM. Its a .bin file. the only modification I made was changing the rev limiter from factory stock (6800) to 3K. Let me know if it works.

[Focal]

Finally someone actually doing something with these ECU`s, instead of just talking about it :)

Most forums I`ve found where they talk about this, the tread just die after a couple of weeks [=(]

I just orderes an obdII-usb cable, and got a couple of 1.8T (A4 B6) ECU`s from the scrapyard. I`ll try to play a bit with them, and put it out here if I find anything worth mentioning :)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Good job on keep thing is alive and moving forward guys. I'm sorry I haven't been as active, I've just been very busy with my own issues for now and while I do post on here in other threads taking the time to make an informative post about tuning ME is quite time consuming.

What I CAN add to this though is, I've flashed 3 S4 ECU's so far... H, T, and M boxes. I haven't had to open them to pull that pad to ground to read or write a flash using Galleto and all the ECU's wrote fine and worked after.

Galetto puts the ECU into boot mode itself (as far as the S4 ECU's are concerned).

NorCalS4, good job on converting the definition lists for each map, I also started that but never finished lol... I think I got 1/3 down the list and then had to stop because something else came up.

If we need web space for anything I can host files/images/whatever on my web space @ http://schnell-engineering.com/

I actually didn't even want to renew my year subscription with my hosting company as I'm not longer 'officially' going to tune (new customers anyway) but I didn't remember my renewal date and my CC got charged for another year :P. I think putting anything we do and anything else we've found scattered over the internet in one place would be a good idea, and I have a ton of bandwidth and space as well.

Let me know what you guys think!

-Sascha

[NorCalS4]

Good job on keep thing is alive and moving forward guys. I'm sorry I haven't been as active, I've just been very busy with my own issues for now and while I do post on here in other threads taking the time to make an informative post about tuning ME is quite time consuming.

What I CAN add to this though is, I've flashed 3 S4 ECU's so far... H, T, and M boxes. I haven't had to open them to pull that to ground to read or write a flash using Galleto and all the EU's wrote fine and worked after.

Galetto puts the ECU into boot mode itself (as far as the S4 ECU's are concerned).

NorCalS4, good job on converting the definition lists for each map, I also started that but never finished lol... I think I got 1/3 down the list and then had to stop because something else came up.

If we need web space for anything I can host files/images/whatever on my web space @ http://schnell-engineering.com/

I actually didn't even want to renew my year subscription with my hosting company as I'm not longer 'officially' going to tune (new customers anyway) but I didn't remember my renewal date and my CC got charged for another year :P. I think putting anything we do and anything else we've found scattered over the internet in one place would be a good idea, and I have a ton of bandwidth and space as well.

Let me know what you guys think!

-Sascha

So what exact hardware and software did you use to flash the S4 ecu's? Did you just use Galletto??

I only have two things (figure out what tables to modify, like I said above, I already have an idea of some tables; find a convenient way to flash and read ROMs) to do and I can release a complete HOW-TO, along with programs to use and cables to buy, etc!!!

[Focal]

I actually didn't even want to renew my year subscription with my hosting company as I'm not longer 'officially' going to tune (new customers anyway) but I didn't remember my renewal date and my CC got charged for another year :P. I think putting anything we do and anything else we've found scattered over the internet in one place would be a good idea, and I have a ton of bandwidth and space as well.

Let me know what you guys think!

-Sascha

Sounds like a good idea.
Are you thinking like putting up a forum so that we can discuss what we find, or just a place to store files?

The best thing would ofcourse be to have a forum like this where we could discuss what we find, new ideas, put in maps/remaps and so on..

[the dog]

i do not trust galletto or KWP2000 to do a obd flash...I have seen them to many times crashing and locking ecus....With galleto I only use bench flash.......

The boot pin is only one pin.....

The file you send NorCalS4 is for a M box....Did you just change the rpm limiter map?
I have to find the exact some map and modify it on my ECU to see if it works. What is the address of the map you changed?
Any chance you will send over the definition file..?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So what exact hardware and software did you use to flash the S4 ecu's? Did you just use Galletto??

I used Galetto only. As for the hardware, it was some ebay knockoff cable that uses the KWP protocol. The cable wasn't mine but looked exactly like this one:

http://www.talktomycar.co.uk/images/galletto.jpg


I only have two things (figure out what tables to modify, like I said above, I already have an idea of some tables; find a convenient way to flash and read ROMs) to do and I can release a complete HOW-TO, along with programs to use and cables to buy, etc!!!

Well we all relatively have the same goals here, some might be looking to do this to other ECU's, where as I and probably you are only looking to do this to S4 ECU's.

Flashing in my experience hasn't been an issue at all. I've flashed all three of the 6 speed Hitachi ECU's I've mentioned above quite a few times. Never had to open one to enter boot mode either. I did however get my hands on a true RS4 computer that was chipped and couldn't read or write to it as it had a different flash chip and Galetto wouldn't let me do anything with it no matter what I tried.

The main issue I see here isn't not knowing where the maps are or what they do. I see the issue here with ME7 being how to exactly tune one properly being it's a torque based system and that it seems it takes many of the maps in to consideration to give you the end result.

It's not like you can just plug in timing and fuel values like a standalone ECU and know what you're going to get a certain rpm/load value.

So that will be the largest learning curve IMO.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Sounds like a good idea.
Are you thinking like putting up a forum so that we can discuss what we find, or just a place to store files?

The best thing would ofcourse be to have a forum like this where we could discuss what we find, new ideas, put in maps/remaps and so on..

I could start up a simple forum to collaborate with a files section I guess, might be a better idea. I'll look into that in the next little while [up]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

i do not trust galletto or KWP2000 to do a obd flash...I have seen them to many times crashing and locking ecus....With galleto I only use bench flash.......

I was able to successfully flash 3 ECU's with Galetto in my car, but recently for some reason there seems to be an issue somewhere and the ECU will fail randomly. I noticed that when the write fails the radio will turn on and off quickly. Although I do believe it has something to do with voltage.

So i made a bench flash harness and Galetto worked flawlessly ever since using a regulated power supply set @ 13.5-14V.

That's all I can really add.

[NorCalS4]

i do not trust galletto or KWP2000 to do a obd flash...I have seen them to many times crashing and locking ecus....With galleto I only use bench flash.......

The boot pin is only one pin.....

The file you send NorCalS4 is for a M box....Did you just change the rpm limiter map?
I have to find the exact some map and modify it on my ECU to see if it works. What is the address of the map you changed?
Any chance you will send over the definition file..?

Yes, its for a M-box. Yes I only changed the rev limiter.

I already tried looking at the same address in the C-box ROM and its not there, meaning all the boxes have different address' for the tables. But tuners all the time flash whatever box they want, to whatever ECU (i.e. I have an A-box ECU that is flashed to completely be a M box). After finding out that the other ECU's have different addy's for stuff and the previous thing I said, I think we should/could maybe just flash the M-box file to whatever ECU, and make the M box file standard ROM, so that we wont have to disassemble every box.

[NorCalS4]

I used Galetto only. As for the hardware, it was some ebay knockoff cable that uses the KWP protocol. The cable wasn't mine but looked exactly like this one:

http://www.talktomycar.co.uk/images/galletto.jpg



Well we all relatively have the same goals here, some might be looking to do this to other ECU's, where as I and probably you are only looking to do this to S4 ECU's.

Flashing in my experience hasn't been an issue at all. I've flashed all three of the 6 speed Hitachi ECU's I've mentioned above quite a few times. Never had to open one to enter boot mode either. I did however get my hands on a true RS4 computer that was chipped and couldn't read or write to it as it had a different flash chip and Galetto wouldn't let me do anything with it no matter what I tried.

The main issue I see here isn't not knowing where the maps are or what they do. I see the issue here with ME7 being how to exactly tune one properly being it's a torque based system and that it seems it takes many of the maps in to consideration to give you the end result.

It's not like you can just plug in timing and fuel values like a standalone ECU and know what you're going to get a certain rpm/load value.

So that will be the largest learning curve IMO.

Most tuner lock there files so people dont steal there info, so we probably wont be able to read any chipped ECUs. But in the EVO world, someone made an unlocker to get around that stuff. Also, I already got a RS4 ROM from someone in this thread and like I said in my previous post, the addy's for the tables and values were all wrong and i got nothing.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Most tuner lock there files so people dont steal there info, so we probably wont be able to read any chipped ECUs. But in the EVO world, someone made an unlocker to get around that stuff. Also, I already got a RS4 ROM from someone in this thread and like I said in my previous post, the addy's for the tables and values were all wrong and i got nothing.

As far as I know there isn't any way to prevent anyone to steal a true OBD port flash. This is why many tuners are now using encryption boards.

Either way, I have successfully read/write 'tuned' ECU's. And the one very good thing about that is, I can now be able to use the stock 'M' box .bin and compare it to the 'tuned' .bin(s) I pulled and see exactly what tables they touched, which will give us a good starting point of what we need to touch [up]

That said, the RS4 ECU wasn't locked it was just that Galetto didn't recognize the flash chip on the ECU as I was on the S4/2.7T drop down... It matched the flash chip's of a 1.8T ECU, but selecting that didn't work either (maybe it might have worked with the boot mode jumper mod? Who knows).

[NorCalS4]

OH SHITTT. Found what we need. HOW-To soon.

[the dog]

All the 1.8T ecus I read worked with boot mode, so the RS4 should need the boot pin to work...

I don’t think it will work NorCalS4. The file size of the C vs the M is different. Mine is 512kb,your is 1mb...
I just need to see how the rev limiter map looks like, so that I can search for it in the C box and chance that, just the way you change it and try it out...
I will need the original file, so that I can compare it with your file, and see exactly at what address you changed...

You can even pull Revo files with bench flash.. But you can not use them on other car.. With OBD flash is a different story....The "brand" chips usually closes the port to read/read from the imo chip.. That’s why is so difficult to completely get rid of them...

I did find a good ols project file....A RS4 B5 with all its definition for maps BUT its in German. The good thing about this is that the definitions are 100% correct. The bad thing is that they are hundreds of maps...

Any chance you will send that definition file you have?

We are in a good road....

[NorCalS4]

Address for rev limiter in the M-box definition is 0x1630A

[the dog]

OH SHITTT. Found what we need. HOW-To soon.

Cant wait......

Is this the limiter map you found?It doesnt make sense......This map is from 0x1630A to 0x16319

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/revlimiter2.jpg

[NorCalS4]

Cant wait......

Is this the limiter map you found?It doesnt make sense......This map is from 0x1630A to 0x16319

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/Panicos/revlimiter2.jpg

Thats what I was saying. The address i gave you was for the rev limiter map in teh m-box, but in the c-box that map is at a different address.

anyways, stop what your doing and look below

[NorCalS4]

Okay. Close this thread. HOW-TO POSTED!!!!!!!!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3933880#post3933880

[the dog]

Okay. Close this thread. HOW-TO POSTED!!!!!!!!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3933880#post3933880

Its your M file...Btw the checksum was wrong.....Or at least thats what it says..
I am off to the other post.....

[NorCalS4]

As far as I know there isn't any way to prevent anyone to steal a true OBD port flash. This is why many tuners are now using encryption boards.

Either way, I have successfully read/write 'tuned' ECU's. And the one very good thing about that is, I can now be able to use the stock 'M' box .bin and compare it to the 'tuned' .bin(s) I pulled and see exactly what tables they touched, which will give us a good starting point of what we need to touch [up]

That said, the RS4 ECU wasn't locked it was just that Galetto didn't recognize the flash chip on the ECU as I was on the S4/2.7T drop down... It matched the flash chip's of a 1.8T ECU, but selecting that didn't work either (maybe it might have worked with the boot mode jumper mod? Who knows).

Can you please email me any tuned .bin files you may have. Email addy PM'd

[Focal]

does anyone have a tuned file for the 1.8T that I can use to compare with stock?

EDIT: for A4 B6 (-02)

[NorCalS4]

^ the only person would be Notorious

[NorCalS4]

Its your M file...Btw the checksum was wrong.....Or at least thats what it says..
I am off to the other post.....

well when i look at it with tunerpro it show the value just fine

[NorCalS4]

As far as I know there isn't any way to prevent anyone to steal a true OBD port flash. This is why many tuners are now using encryption boards.

Either way, I have successfully read/write 'tuned' ECU's. And the one very good thing about that is, I can now be able to use the stock 'M' box .bin and compare it to the 'tuned' .bin(s) I pulled and see exactly what tables they touched, which will give us a good starting point of what we need to touch [up]

That said, the RS4 ECU wasn't locked it was just that Galetto didn't recognize the flash chip on the ECU as I was on the S4/2.7T drop down... It matched the flash chip's of a 1.8T ECU, but selecting that didn't work either (maybe it might have worked with the boot mode jumper mod? Who knows).

there is, they do stuff like changing the ROM ID and it makes it so it cant be read. But i guess thats not the case with the S4 tuned ECUs

[the dog]

I have tuner and stock files fro 1.8T

[Focal]

I have tuner and stock files fro 1.8T

Possible you could send them over so that I can compare them?

EDIT: I have stock ecu from a -98 and -02. What is the file you have for?

[the dog]

sure....You will share the findings later,right?
I am trying to use the tunerpro xdf file to find the main map on the 1.8T B6 al ecu.....I found 2 so far

[Focal]

isn`t that the whole point with this thread? :)

I`ve been doing some work on trionic for saab with a friend earlier, and we`ll take a look at it later this week and see what we can find out about, and ofcourse share it with the rest. :)

[the dog]

pm me your email

[Focal]

pm me your email

pm`ed [:)]

[NefMoto]

Im pretty sure this is the "Map for linearization of boost pressure = f (TV)" map.

x-axis should be TPS % and y axis should be RPM

The map is N75 duty cycle in % vs engine speed in RPM.

The output of the map is the corrected N75 duty cycle.

The map is used for calibrating the N75 response. It is essentially a correction map.

[NefMoto]

there is, they do stuff like changing the ROM ID and it makes it so it cant be read. But i guess thats not the case with the S4 tuned ECUs

There are a few different ways to prevent KWP2000 from reading flashed ecus. They all require some experience with disassembling though.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

BUMP... bringing this thread back from the dead as there is a ton of information that needs to be read from the BEGINNING! Also because I have reserved spaces in the first few posts to allow N00b's to see what they need to see right from the get go. It's too bad to see NorCalS4 drop the project, but IMO his thread was unnecessary and I will take all relevant info from it and drop it into this thread which I will continue to work on.

Today is a milestone, as I have today tuned my first M-box bin and flashed it with success. I'm currently even still driving on it! More info to follow once I know more and figure out what I need to know. Stay tuned!

[b5s4tt]

that is very good news.

[Robot_Lincoln]

I am waiting on delivery of a cable to read my l-box ECU. Until then I have taken the info presented by NOTORIOUS VR and am feeding it into a database in Excel. As we get more info on how to change maps, or the values from tuned ECUs, I plan on entering it in and extrapolating a how-to for changing the maps for a desired result.
I would appreciate any info on tuned files anyone has, or .bin files from different ECUs. The more data we have, the more information we can derive from it.

If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet, PM me.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ That's very interesting... I'd love to see how that all works out in the end!

As for .bin files, theres a few ECU .bin's on Nyet's site... Thing is we only have a definition files for the M-box... so unless you make your own (or find one) for the ECU type you're trying to open you won't be able to see much.

Luckily us S4 guys can use the M-box flash across 3 different ECU's without any issues (H & T boxes can be flashed to an M-box without an issue) so Nyet's site has everything one needs to 'tune' an S4 with a Hitachi MAF.

I'm also going to start writing up a basic HOW-TO on how to properly bench flash (read/write) to the S4 ECU. I won't touch on the tuning aspect until I completely understand what does what though. But at least in the mean time people might want to at least try it for themselves (I hope)!

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Updated post #3 on first page.

Posted a HOW-TO on bench-flashing your S4 ECU:
http://audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3465984&postcount=3

[TWiST]

Awesome work guys, I am a systems engineer and work in IT and I live for this kind of stuff and to now see it being applied to my car really seals the deal!

Now I just need to read this from the top again and start taking notes!

[NefMoto]

BUMP... bringing this thread back from the dead as there is a ton of information that needs to be read from the BEGINNING! Also because I have reserved spaces in the first few posts to allow N00b's to see what they need to see right from the get go. It's too bad to see NorCalS4 drop the project, but IMO his thread was unnecessary and I will take all relevant info from it and drop it into this thread which I will continue to work on.

Today is a milestone, as I have today tuned my first M-box bin and flashed it with success. I'm currently even still driving on it! More info to follow once I know more and figure out what I need to know. Stay tuned!

Did you update all three checksum types?

One of the checksums is only checked every few ignition cycles. The other two are checked every time the engine is started.

I missed that one the first time I tuned my S4 and I had to get my wife to drive an hour to bring me a backup ECU when I got stranded.

Bring a spare ECU with you if you aren't sure about the checksums.

You have been warned. [:D]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Did you update all three checksum types?

One of the checksums is only checked every few ignition cycles. The other two are checked every time the engine is started.

I missed that one the first time I tuned my S4 and I had to get my wife to drive an hour to bring me a backup ECU when I got stranded.

Bring a spare ECU with you if you aren't sure about the checksums.

You have been warned. [:D]

WinOLS told me 5 checksums were incorrect when I first loaded the file that I modified from TunerPro. After opening the file though, WinOLS verified and reported that all the checksums were OK, at that point I then saved the .bin file from WinOLS and used that file to flash the ECU [up]

I do have a spare ECU in my car though lol... it's like you read my mind [:D]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

One thing I did notice that was strange... CF's are not showing anything other then 0.0 for all cyl... Now I'm not sure why that is... but it's almost as if they're disabled?!?!

Anyone know anything about this?

[NefMoto]

WinOLS told me 5 checksums were incorrect when I first loaded the file that I modified from TunerPro. After opening the file though, WinOLS verified and reported that all the checksums were OK, at that point I then saved the .bin file from WinOLS and used that file to flash the ECU [up]

I do have a spare ECU in my car though lol... it's like you read my mind [:D]

So you are using a pirated version of WinOLS I assume?

[Don Supreme]

Tools for the end user are coming soon.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Tools for the end user are coming soon.

Interesting news... What kind of tools?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So you are using a pirated version of WinOLS I assume?

First of all, what version I am using isn't the point of this thread so why you are asking me something like that is beyond me. So instead of thread-jacking PM questions like that to me as it really has nothing to do with helping S4 owners tune their own ECU's.

Also why you would automatically assume that my WinOLS is pirated [confused]

[wdbdy2000s4]

One thing I did notice that was strange... CF's are not showing anything other then 0.0 for all cyl... Now I'm not sure why that is... but it's almost as if they're disabled?!?!

Anyone know anything about this?

log your ignition timing and see how it compares to your old file. If somehow timing has been decreased then it is probly reading correctly, and there is no correction. If your timing is the same or increased then it's not reading correctly or your engine isn't correcting the timing issues. I'm sure you've thought of this b/c you clearly have an idea what's going on....just thought I'd throw it out there.[up]

[NefMoto]

First of all, what version I am using isn't the point of this thread so why you are asking me something like that is beond me. So instead of thread-jacking PM questions like that to me as it really has nothing to do with helping S4 owners tune their own ECU's.

Also why you would automatically assume that my WinOLS is pirated is beyond me [confused]

Because one license of WinOLS costs 1600 euro, and the ME7 checksum module costs 400 euro. Therefore I assume you did not pay for it.

This thread is about teaching people how to tune their S4s. I'm asking a valid question if this is the method you are teaching people.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Hmmm... very interesting actually... and you might just be on to something... It's quite possible I've somehow shifted the load maps and now am in a more conservative area of the ign. map. Which I must admit is quite possible as the car doesn't feel as potent as my other OTS tuned ECU's that I have. I'll def. check that out.

And this is why forums are great :)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Because one license of WinOLS costs 1600 euro, and the ME7 checksum module costs 400 euro. Therefore I assume you did not pay for it.

This thread is about teaching people how to tune their S4s. I'm asking a valid question if this is the method you are teaching people.

Again, if you have a problem with the software I'm using why don't you PM me instead of cluttering this thread is useless nonsense which is coming from someone who uses a pirated copy of WinOLS himself.

Don't come in here trying to act like you're the police and stay on topic please, otherwise you can GTFO.

[NefMoto]

Again, if you have a problem with the software I'm using why don't you PM me instead of cluttering this thread is useless nonsense which is coming from someone who uses a pirated copy of WinOLS himself.

Don't come in here trying to act like you're the police and stay on topic please, otherwise you can GTFO.

I asked a question about the software you were using, you are the one that assumed I had a problem with it, or was suggesting I wanted you to stop.

I used the demo version of WinOLS in the past to view some Damos files. But I decided not to bother with it since it is a backwards bloated unintuitive piece of software, and considerably overpriced. I have been using my own software ever since.

Some people may not want to use software to tune their cars that hasn't been acquired using the proper means. Just something you should make people aware of if you are teaching people this process.

[NefMoto]

One thing I did notice that was strange... CF's are not showing anything other then 0.0 for all cyl... Now I'm not sure why that is... but it's almost as if they're disabled?!?!

Anyone know anything about this?

You should log your knock voltages. If your knock voltages are high, and you have no correction factors, then something is wrong. If your knock voltages are low, then I would assume you are either running at a lower engine load, or have significantly reduced the ignition timing maps.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I asked a question about the software you were using, you are the one that assumed I had a problem with it, or was suggesting I wanted you to stop.

I used the demo version of WinOLS in the past to view some Damos files. But I decided not to bother with it since it is a backwards bloated unintuitive piece of software, and considerably overpriced. I have been using my own software ever since.

Some people may not want to use software to tune their cars that hasn't been acquired using the proper means. Just something you should make people aware of if you are teaching people this process.

I haven't even yet written a process, and I fully intend to make people aware of what they're getting themselves into before attempting to tune their cars ECU, and that includes their choice of software.

And you came off as to having an issue with it, because it should be a non-issue for you especially since as you say you use your own software. You could have easily PM'd me about your concerns and we would have avoided this all together.

That said, I'm done with this. I use what I use, I'm not going to say what version I have as that is irrelevant anyway. I will provide people with the means to 'find' the software needed to complete the task at hand, if they choose to use it that isn't really my fault now is it.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

You should log your knock voltages. If your knock voltages are high, and you have no correction factors, then something is wrong. If your knock voltages are low, then I would assume you are either running at a lower engine load, or have significantly reduced the ignition timing maps.

I will definitely check knock voltages, and also look @ the ignition angle through VAG to see what the motor is getting. It is quite possible that I'm running a lower ign. advance for some reason.

I'll post up my findings towards the end of the weekend, as I'm going away and won't be back until Sunday. Which is when I will have time to tinker some more. [up]

[NefMoto]

I will definitely check knock voltages, and also look @ the ignition angle through VAG to see what the motor is getting. It is quite possible that I'm running a lower ign. advance for some reason.

I'll post up my findings towards the end of the weekend, as I'm going away and won't be back until Sunday. Which is when I will have time to tinker some more. [up]

What are you using to log?

I prefer ECUx over VAG-COM for logging, since you can read any variable and not just groups. I have written my logging software to work the same way as ECUx, but the UI is ugly and hard to use at the moment, so I can't release it just yet.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

What are you using to log?

I prefer ECUx over VAG-COM for logging, since you can read any variable and not just groups. I have written my logging software to work the same way as ECUx, but the UI is ugly and hard to use at the moment, so I can't release it just yet.

VAG @ this point in time only. ECUx would be more ideal... but paying $300US for software that is no longer supported doesn't really sit with me. I'd rather 'tough it out' with VAG for now. Then when I'm really getting serious, I can always go on my buddys dyno and log most of the important variables through the OBD connection.

That or someone needs to make ECUx available... ooops [cool]

[NefMoto]

VAG @ this point in time only. ECUx would be more ideal... but paying $300US for software that is no longer supported doesn't really sit with me. I'd rather 'tough it out' with VAG for now. Then when I'm really getting serious, I can always go on my buddys dyno and log most of the important variables through the OBD connection.

That or someone needs to make ECUx available... ooops [cool]

Or someone just needs to write a new ECUx. [wrench]

I think I may know someone...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Or someone just needs to write a new ECUx. [wrench]

I think I may know someone...

chop chop! [:D]

[rarak69]

badass notorious...I have been running my custom tune(H-box) for 2 weeks now with no issues, took about 15 flashes to sort a few maps i was confused about but im there now, i have been trying to hit the dyno but havnt had time, even though its 1 mile away :p.

i also have a 0 CF, how much timing did you give it an where? i bumped it up at higher RPM's/Load just a little, im gonna go a little more tomorrow before i head out to class to see how it reacts via Vagcom

also nefmoto Pleaaaase! share your logging software, VCDS is soo slow.

oh yea, 2nd 02 delete worked too! booya

[NOTORIOUS VR]

badass notorious...I have been running my custom tune(H-box) for 2 weeks now with no issues, took about 15 flashes to sort a few maps i was confused about but im there now, i have been trying to hit the dyno but havnt had time, even though its 1 mile away :p.

i also have a 0 CF, how much timing did you give it an where? i bumped it up at higher RPM's/Load just a little, im gonna go a little more tomorrow before i head out to class to see how it reacts via Vagcom

also nefmoto Pleaaaase! share your logging software, VCDS is soo slow.

oh yea, 2nd 02 delete worked too! booya

Awesome! I also did the 2nd 02 delete... not that I'll notice a difference until I get my DP's in... but I did check it by unplugging them :)

I checked the knock voltages and they're all within spec.. haven't seen high then 8-9V which is nothing... Also I did notice that the CF's are showing.. just very minimal (0.5 CF).

Anyway... What I'm having a real problem with is boost. I cannot seem to get it higher then ~13psi... Anyone want to fill me in on what's happening here? I seems that if I increase the numbers in the Max. specified load table (LDRXN_1_A) I can get it to go up... but not as much as I'd like it to.

I'd like to spike to 18 and hold 16psi for as long as possible.

I also increased the engine load desired table (KFMIRL) but mainly what I noticed there was a really big increase in boost download (and some compressor surging due to that).

Help please [=(]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

What are you doing with the N75 duty cycle?

Not a thing actually... Not even sure what map that is...

KFLDHBN - LDR-Höhenbegrenzung (max. Verdichterdruckverhältnis)

Roughly translated mean Boost pressure maximum level... Is that something to look at?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Absolutely that makes perfect sense! Thanks a lot for the pointers... Now i need to find the duty cycle map.... thanks for more sleepless nights lol

[rarak69]

Absolutely that makes perfect sense! Thanks a lot for the pointers... Now i need to find the duty cycle map.... thanks for more sleepless nights lol

its a PID controller the n75, look that up to get an idea of how that works.

LDRXN is the proper map to get the boost, then i changed a few other maps to to prevent surging, ill look when i get home and let you know the other map i changed, i was able to change two maps in the boost control group and that seems to do the trick, however im running 14psi. LDRXN in the 180's was giving me 16-17 psi, it can go to 200 i guess.

KFLDRL is you duty cycle correction map, so i guess that can help smooth out some spots.

[NorCalS4]

its a PID controller the n75, look that up to get an idea of how that works.

LDRXN is the proper map to get the boost, then i changed a few other maps to to prevent surging, ill look when i get home and let you know the other map i changed, i was able to change two maps in the boost control group and that seems to do the trick, however im running 14psi. LDRXN in the 180's was giving me 16-17 psi, it can go to 200 i guess.

KFLDRL is you duty cycle correction map, so i guess that can help smooth out some spots.

Nice. Told you you were on the right path.

[NorCalS4]

I'm VERY surprised that no timing changes were made which kind of explains as to why my other tuned ECU seems a lot smoother and more aggressive.

I have a theory on what you found and why it is and how it will affect tuning this ECU.

[NorCalS4]

Also what about including the steps raraka provided for flashing the ECU while the ECU is in the car using KWP2000+. I think this is the option that should be explored/developed, as having to take the ECU for bench flashing when trying to actually tune the car on a dyno or the street is impractical and unrealistic.

(please include in first posts)

HOW-TO USE KWP2000+ tool with ME7 edition

1. Hook up the battery charger to battery and set it on 2amp trickle or slow charge, dependent on your charger.
2. pull fuses for instrument cluster(11 or 15 cant remember off hand) and the fans (25)
3. plug in the kwp tool, and plug into computer.
4. Key to the 2nd position in ignition(right before you start)
5. Select read ecu from the software, selecting Slow speed, and ME7.5/ME7.1.

thats it, takes about 20-22 minutes for the read out. Repeat to send the modified .bin back.

if voltage drops, it will fail. so be careful

[NorCalS4]

And like I said in the other thread (which I have now closed), I have my original .xdf file with the abbreviations and the map descriptions. And we should include the map abbreviation in the MAP DESCRIPTIONS. Let me know if you need help with the abbreviations or map descriptions.

Also, though I said before that I got a new project and wouldnt have time, I have now ended one of my other various ventures and I MAY have time for this project.

Vr, nice work revamping your first posts and including my info.

[rarak69]

once i have a solid understanding of what needs to be changed for sure i will be posting the information on what maps and addresses they are at that need to be modified. I am just testing and playing around now with it so give VR and I some time we will surely help others, all at your own risk of course ;)


And like I said in the other thread (which I have now closed), I have my original .xdf file with the abbreviations and the map descriptions. And we should include the map abbreviation in the MAP DESCRIPTIONS. Let me know if you need help with the abbreviations or map descriptions.

Also, though I said before that I got a new project and wouldnt have time, I have now ended one of my other various ventures and I MAY have time for this project.

Vr, nice work revamping your first posts and including my info.

[Reich]

Do you guy's have any idea what is hapening to my other box?
I have two box. but ther's one box that we can't finish tuning b/c high preignition, high knok voltage and timing as low as 5 deg at 19 pis boost.
While my first box is runing almost 25 timing with same boost.Same A/F ratio.

I realy don't want to bug the thread, but i think if we can find a clue, it will help to understand the timing part of it

[NOTORIOUS VR]

its a PID controller the n75, look that up to get an idea of how that works.

LDRXN is the proper map to get the boost, then i changed a few other maps to to prevent surging, ill look when i get home and let you know the other map i changed, i was able to change two maps in the boost control group and that seems to do the trick, however im running 14psi. LDRXN in the 180's was giving me 16-17 psi, it can go to 200 i guess.

KFLDRL is you duty cycle correction map, so i guess that can help smooth out some spots.

I was aware the boost controller was of PID type (most are anyway)... I just didn't understand that you wanted to map out your duty cycle instead of letting the EU decide for the load you're requesting. Now it's clear that the ECU will only give as much as the duty cycle maps will allow. which is why for me the LDRXN map wasn't doing me much good because I could put 300 in there and not get more then 14psi.

I took a stab at changing the following maps as they looked like duty cycle maps to me:

KFLDRQ2 & LDRQ0DY and I went from 10psi to 15-16psi! But now I have the issue where the boost will oscillate under WOT. It'll hit 16 then drop to 12-13 and then go back up to 16 and back down and keep doing that.

I'm not sure if the issue is in a modifier map somewhere or in the duty cycle maps that I modified. KFLDRQ2 I believe is the duty cycle map, and LDRQ0DY seems to be the duty cycle limit? Can anyone confirm?

I might try later on tonight a few more things if I have the time.

btw, RARAK69 you have PM :)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I have a theory on what you found and why it is and how it will affect tuning this ECU.

Let hear it!

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Do you guy's have any idea what is hapening to my other box?
I have two box. but ther's one box that we can't finish tuning b/c high preignition, high knok voltage and timing as low as 5 deg at 19 pis boost.
While my first box is runing almost 25 timing with same boost.Same A/F ratio.

I realy don't want to bug the thread, but i think if we can find a clue, it will help to understand the timing part of it

high knock voltage means it's pinging... so there must be something going wrong... but to be honest I couldn't even think to point you in the right direction of what map(s) could be wrong in your setup just yet.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

And like I said in the other thread (which I have now closed), I have my original .xdf file with the abbreviations and the map descriptions. And we should include the map abbreviation in the MAP DESCRIPTIONS. Let me know if you need help with the abbreviations or map descriptions.

I have already modified Nyet's original XDF to show the descriptions for most maps along with the actual map names. That's easy and just helps you to locate maps quickly in TunerPro.

I'm still gonna setup some web space (as I have a ton of space and traffic available) so that I can upload files as well so everyone can DL them.


Also, though I said before that I got a new project and wouldnt have time, I have now ended one of my other various ventures and I MAY have time for this project.

The more ppl the better IMO, and now it seems we're really starting to move forward here. [drive] I'll admit though I was busy and pretty lazy to even bother for a while since I was very happy with my MTM chip & MBC. But with the possibility of RS6's coming to me soon, I have a huge amount to learn to make that all work when the time is right :)

But, didn't you just give away all of your cables though? Even if you did all you really need is the Galletto cable, forget about the KWP2000+ one for now.


Vr, nice work revamping your first posts and including my info.

Anything that is useful needs to be made available. The reason why I didn't include the KWP2000 software method is because I haven't done it yet (nor do I see a reason to do so @ this point). Even though I'm sure that method will work just as well (although much slower to flash --20min for KWP2000 vs. 3 min via Galletto in Boot mode--) but really even when on the dyno, you're still faster putting the ECU into boot mode and flashing with the ECU in the car then with KWP2000 as our ECU's are easily accessible. [up]

[NorCalS4]

I was aware the boost controller was of PID type (most are anyway)... I just didn't understand that you wanted to map out your duty cycle instead of letting the EU decide for the load you're requesting. Now it's clear that the ECU will only give as much as the duty cycle maps will allow. which is why for me the LDRXN map wasn't doing me much good because I could put 300 in there and not get more then 14psi.

I took a stab at changing the following maps as they looked like duty cycle maps to me:

KFLDRQ2 & LDRQ0DY and I went from 10psi to 15-16psi! But now I have the issue where the boost will oscillate under WOT. It'll hit 16 then drop to 12-13 and then go back up to 16 and back down and keep doing that.

I'm not sure if the issue is in a modifier map somewhere or in the duty cycle maps that I modified. KFLDRQ2 I believe is the duty cycle map, and LDRQ0DY seems to be the duty cycle limit? Can anyone confirm?

I might try later on tonight a few more things if I have the time.

btw, RARAK69 you have PM :)

Your boost is doing that because you havent set other tables properly. I would say setting up the LDRXN to show the load your hitting with the increased boost will help with the oscillation. Its doing it, cuz your making the ECU hit load that it thinks is too high.

[rarak69]

Anything that is useful needs to be made available. The reason why I didn't include the KWP2000 software method is because I haven't done it yet (nor do I see a reason to do so @ this point). Even though I'm sure that method will work just as well (although much slower to flash --20min for KWP2000 vs. 3 min via Galletto in Boot mode--) but really even when on the dyno, you're still faster putting the ECU into boot mode and flashing with the ECU in the car then with KWP2000 as our ECU's are easily accessible. [up]


kwp reads for 15-20 min. it flashes in like 4 min w/o bootmode, through obd2 socket takes 4 min exactly.

[NorCalS4]

Let hear it!

Well, if you look at logs from stg. 1-2+ cars running GIAC, APR, or any other chips, when they log they always get some CF. I believe this is because the stock timing maps are already really high, so I believe most tuners just tune the fuel and the boost and leave the timing maps alone, lettin the ECU pull timing (CF) to achieve optimal timing curve.

Now this is just my theory and such, but if its correct then it will mean we only have to tune boost and fuel, and timing will take care of its self.

Do either of you have a wideband O2 sensor?? I do but its installed in my project car.

[NorCalS4]

I have already modified Nyet's original XDF to show the descriptions for most maps along with the actual map names. That's easy and just helps you to locate maps quickly in TunerPro.

I'm still gonna setup some web space (as I have a ton of space and traffic available) so that I can upload files as well so everyone can DL them.

Can you hook me up with the xdf file you have?

The more ppl the better IMO, and now it seems we're really starting to move forward here. [drive] I'll admit though I was busy and pretty lazy to even bother for a while since I was very happy with my MTM chip & MBC. But with the possibility of RS6's coming to me soon, I have a huge amount to learn to make that all work when the time is right :)

But, didn't you just give away all of your cables though? Even if you did all you really need is the Galletto cable, forget about the KWP2000+ one for now.

I am giving my galletto cable away, and I believe Im keeping my KWP2000+ cuz I want to flash though the OBD port, without dealing with putting the ECu in boot mode

Anything that is useful needs to be made available. The reason why I didn't include the KWP2000 software method is because I haven't done it yet (nor do I see a reason to do so @ this point). Even though I'm sure that method will work just as well (although much slower to flash --20min for KWP2000 vs. 3 min via Galletto in Boot mode--) but really even when on the dyno, you're still faster putting the ECU into boot mode and flashing with the ECU in the car then with KWP2000 as our ECU's are easily accessible. [up]


kwp reads for 15-20 min. it flashes in like 4 min w/o bootmode, through obd2 socket takes 4 min exactly.

Like I said above I think flashing with KWP2000+ is gonna be the way of tuning the S4 ECU. And like rarak said, it doesnt to log to write to the ECU.

And you may be right about using galletto on the dyno, that it wont be hard to access teh ECU and put it in boot mode, but most of the people that will be using this/these methods to tune their ECU will be road tuning and when it comes to road tuning, stopping and getting out to put the ECU in boot mode will be a hassle.

[NorCalS4]

high knock voltage means it's pinging... so there must be something going wrong... but to be honest I couldn't even think to point you in the right direction of what map(s) could be wrong in your setup just yet.

loggin and tryin to see "real knock" by looking at the knock voltage, is very primitive and wont work. The ECU takes the knock voltage and puts it in a complex algorithm to find out what is actually knock and what is just noise. Knock voltage is just a small part of the ECU seeing actually knock.

For tuning the S4 ECU, we are gonna want to use CF to see if our tunes are knocking or not.

[rarak69]

Like I said above I think flashing with KWP2000+ is gonna be the way of tuning the S4 ECU. And like rarak said, it doesnt to log to write to the ECU.

And you may be right about using galletto on the dyno, that it wont be hard to access teh ECU and put it in boot mode, but most of the people that will be using this/these methods to tune their ECU will be road tuning and when it comes to road tuning, stopping and getting out to put the ECU in boot mode will be a hassle.

yea its a hassle having to pull back into my garage to flash each time, but hey whatever, its fun learning this stuff, and i will get a good idea to get me where i need to be soon enough without logging and flashing 20 times lol

[NorCalS4]

After taking a quick look at the XDF file you're using, it seems like one of the maps that is labeled a limit functions as a modifier, not necessarily what one might consider a "limit".

If you look at the characteristics of the map while keeping in mind the boost profile of a stock 2.7T, it should become clear.

whats map are you referring to?? Whats its name or abbreviation?

The map LDRXN_1_A (Maximum specified load), to me, has what looks like the stock 2.7 boost/load curve. This is the table your talking about right, since it says maximum but doesnt seem like the maximum table. Also theres a map that has the title doesnt have the word "maximum" in it, but yet, seems like a maximum table. (cant find the table im referencing right now, but yeah..)

[NorCalS4]

I was aware the boost controller was of PID type (most are anyway)... I just didn't understand that you wanted to map out your duty cycle instead of letting the EU decide for the load you're requesting. Now it's clear that the ECU will only give as much as the duty cycle maps will allow. which is why for me the LDRXN map wasn't doing me much good because I could put 300 in there and not get more then 14psi.

I took a stab at changing the following maps as they looked like duty cycle maps to me:


Absolutely that makes perfect sense! Thanks a lot for the pointers... Now i need to find the duty cycle map.... thanks for more sleepless nights lol

KFLDRQ2 & LDRQ0DY and I went from 10psi to 15-16psi! But now I have the issue where the boost will oscillate under WOT. It'll hit 16 then drop to 12-13 and then go back up to 16 and back down and keep doing that.

I'm not sure if the issue is in a modifier map somewhere or in the duty cycle maps that I modified. KFLDRQ2 I believe is the duty cycle map, and LDRQ0DY seems to be the duty cycle limit? Can anyone confirm?

I might try later on tonight a few more things if I have the time.

btw, RARAK69 you have PM :)

Those two maps you changed, I dont think they are duty cycle, but I believe they have to do with duty cycle correction. Im "guessing" KFLDRL may be the duty cycle map.

Also, here is some insight on the boost system. I explained the EVO system in the other thread and believe this is a lot like it.

First, there is duty cycle maps and load maps that have to match up, which giving you your desired boost (ie increasing the duty cycle will increase the boost and subsequently the load.) So the load table has to have the load your seeing with the increased boost or its gonna think something is wrong. also there will be a couple (or many) boost correction maps (ie maps that say if boost/load is off by X then to pull/add X amount of duty cycle to get it where the load map os saying it should be)

So see how, on the boost tuning part, a couple (or many) maps will have to be configured with each other to get a proper increased boost curve.

After we figure that out, we can get to fuel and timing......

[complacentsee]

Nye updated some of the s4wiki's tuning page recently.

It has a bit more information on load -> boost.

[NorCalS4]

N75 duty cycle and the load maps are 2 different things. They both will affect the boost that the car makes.

If you think about how standard open loop boost control works (boost control solenoid only), you could use a TPS vs. RPM map for N75 duty cycle, and a MAP vs. RPM modifier.

Why both? Let's say you're out of boost, railing the N75 duty cycle will aid in spool, and the modifier can adjust the duty cycle as manifold pressure rises. The N75 is also railed shut at low RPM with 100% throttle to aid in spool.

Then to apply PID closed loop control you will want some way to specify a requested load. That load is generally calculated from MAP or MAF readings, or both.

To make smaller changes, upping solely the requested boost or load will work, since the closed loop control will somewhat compensate for the fact that boost is off from the target given the currently N75 duty cycle mapping.

I understand, like I said in the previous post, I have experience with closed loop, load based boost control systems.

[NorCalS4]

Nye updated some of the s4wiki's tuning page recently.

It has a bit more information on load -> boost.

THANK YOU

looks like everything or most everything we need is now located on the s4 wikis tuning page.

heres the link.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

[NorCalS4]

THANK YOU

looks like everything or most everything we need is now located on the s4 wikis tuning page.

heres the link.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

Looks like nyet just added all that new info last night (early this morn).

Come on people where you at?? I think nyet has giving us all the keys we need!!!!

VR where are you??? We need the first post updated with all teh new info. Self tuning your S4 is very close!!!!

[NorCalS4]

Well, if you look at logs from stg. 1-2+ cars running GIAC, APR, or any other chips, when they log they always get some CF. I believe this is because the stock timing maps are already really high, so I believe most tuners just tune the fuel and the boost and leave the timing maps alone, lettin the ECU pull timing (CF) to achieve optimal timing curve.

Now this is just my theory and such, but if its correct then it will mean we only have to tune boost and fuel, and timing will take care of its self.

Do either of you have a wideband O2 sensor?? I do but its installed in my project car.

Looks like my theory was somewhat right. It does look like the stock ECU timing is really high like I said, but we will have to cut it back, so we can get single digit CFs. We cant just let the ECU use CF to get an optimal timing curve.

quote from nyet's info

When running elevated boost on pump gas, you will have to significantly cut requested timing to prevent timing retard. Keep your worst case correction factors in the single digits

[NorCalS4]

Also, I want to put the original xdf file with the abbreviation in the S4 tuning .rar and get it uploaded to the first post. I have the .rar file ready.

edit: Seems like he (nyet) is working on it right now, as info keeps poppin up

[rarak69]

Cool a little more info that i didnt have. well boost wise i had that, but the corrections and IAT correction is key to know, i did notice it drop to 10psi later in the day on a 40min drive last night. good deal. ill play with that and try another flash tonight :)

[NorCalS4]

Cool a little more info that i didnt have. well boost wise i had that, but the corrections and IAT correction is key to know, i did notice it drop to 10psi later in the day on a 40min drive last night. good deal. ill play with that and try another flash tonight :)

Do you have a WB O2?

Also, you check out nyets updated page right? Cuz its just not a lil more info, it seems like the whole enchilada. Looks like all the info we need to completely tune the stock S4 ECU is right there.

[rarak69]

just checked it, boost stuff is what i was referring too, ill mess around, i use my buddies wideband(lm1?) plugs into lighter socket :) nice and easy to swap in.

[JaredVL]

just an fyi, you still gotta figure out how to apply it all into a solid tune for your car. it can be daunting to say the least to really iron it all out the first couple time.

[NorCalS4]

just an fyi, you still gotta figure out how to apply it all into a solid tune for your car. it can be daunting to say the least to really iron it all out the first couple time.

Well as long as we know how to change boost, fuel and timing, the car can be completely tuned. Anybody that has enough knowledge to tune a car, just needs the ability to control/change boost, fuel and timing.

Yes we may not be able to get complete/perfect tune done in the first couple trys, but after lil bit of R&D we should have complete/perfect tunes shortly

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Holy crap guys this is awesome! I've been getting a ton of PM's and emails.... so much info going on here now and even Nye is getting back into the groove it seems from the help of all of us gathering info and more people trying/testing things...

My thanks goes out to all of your trying to make this a successful project and will be a huge leap towards the Audi/S4 community!

I cannot do much right now, but give me a few hours to get home and I'll setup some webspace and update the first posts with all the info once I look it all over.

Cheers!
Sascha

[JaredVL]

yup

nye pretty much rocks

[NorCalS4]

yup

nye pretty much rocks

you can say that again.

[MyTunes]

yup

nye pretty much rocks

Agreed!!! Him and mini pig JD :-)

[jibberjive]

Wow, really cool stuff. Looks like it'll take a good amount of trial and error by a bunch of people to be able to get some tunes that are going to be as smooth and safe as the current tuners, but I'm stoked that it's on it's way! Random thoughts, with that "left-foot braking" part in Nyet's wiki, does that mean that we could set that so that we could brake boost while roll racing? Also something that might be cool to figure out too is how to write out the stock EGT's for those that so desire. I don't think I would personally because I prefer the most protection I can get, but for example if someone were to be constantly running a wideband with EGT sensors, and an EGT alarm or something, and they didn't want to have to replace the stock EGT sensors at $250/per, then they could just write them out like they do with the rear O2's.

[rarak69]

Wow, really cool stuff. Looks like it'll take a good amount of trial and error by a bunch of people to be able to get some tunes that are going to be as smooth and safe as the current tuners, but I'm stoked that it's on it's way! Random thoughts, with that "left-foot braking" part in Nyet's wiki, does that mean that we could set that so that we could brake boost while roll racing? Also something that might be cool to figure out too is how to write out the stock EGT's for those that so desire. I don't think I would personally because I prefer the most protection I can get, but for example if someone were to be constantly running a wideband with EGT sensors, and an EGT alarm or something, and they didn't want to have to replace the stock EGT sensors at $250/per, then they could just write them out like they do with the rear O2's.

you can "write out" EGT's if you want, i like the enrichment they give incase though :)

just got done with another flash....booya rock solid 14 psi whole way accross. happy with that. a little burp around 3-4k, and its not timing pull. fueling was tad rich when i had it at 12 psi so i figured 14psi is safe for now until i get the wideband on again. maybe hit the dyno tomorrow and see what i can do

oh yea the brake boosting thing i found and it works :) now i cant hate on evo's

[complacentsee]

Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to have the egt delete information, atleast once you were sure you had come up with a safe tune... Definatly the last thing you would want to remove on a homebrew. SIA delete details for the tip owners could be nice.

[NorCalS4]

Wow, really cool stuff. Looks like it'll take a good amount of trial and error by a bunch of people to be able to get some tunes that are going to be as smooth and safe as the current tuners, but I'm stoked that it's on it's way! Random thoughts, with that "left-foot braking" part in Nyet's wiki, does that mean that we could set that so that we could brake boost while roll racing? Also something that might be cool to figure out too is how to write out the stock EGT's for those that so desire. I don't think I would personally because I prefer the most protection I can get, but for example if someone were to be constantly running a wideband with EGT sensors, and an EGT alarm or something, and they didn't want to have to replace the stock EGT sensors at $250/per, then they could just write them out like they do with the rear O2's.

I believe the left foot braking stuff is for this.

Left-foot braking is the technique of using the left foot to operate the brake pedal in an automobile, leaving the right foot dedicated to the throttle pedal.

[jibberjive]

I believe the left foot braking stuff is for this.

Left-foot braking is the technique of using the left foot to operate the brake pedal in an automobile, leaving the right foot dedicated to the throttle pedal.

Haha, I know what left foot braking is[cool] I was just saying that our ECU's cut the throttle once the brake is applied, so one can't brake boost to create instant boost for for roll racing. I was trying to confirm that the left-foot braking modification to the code allows brake boosting since they're essentially the same thing.

[complacentsee]

Hopefully it does.

[Evilevo]

This is awesome information. And being able to brake boost would really help the big turbo guys from roll racing. No lag is an awesome thing [;)]

[NorCalS4]

Haha, I know what left foot braking is[cool] I was just saying that our ECU's cut the throttle once the brake is applied, so one can't brake boost to create instant boost for for roll racing. I was trying to confirm that the left-foot braking modification to the code allows brake boosting since they're essentially the same thing.

Oh, I have never really "roll raced". I do all my racing from a stop. And I just know about left braking for trail braking or whatnot.

[jibberjive]

Hopefully it does.

rarak said it does, so that's cool. I wonder why any of the other tuners don't do that as well.

[PiggieSmalls]

I had left-foot braking enabled on my old S4, but I never tried brake boosting the car off a roll. I don't see why it wouldn't work since the car no longer cut throttle when braking. Wiith a 7070 RPM rev-limit, I just set the min RPM for lock-out at 7080.

Also, somebody mentioned relying more on correction factors than knock voltages. I wanted to address this. As you experiment with the various maps that control the knock to correction factor ratio, you will realize that correction is easily manipulated and "raw" knock voltages will be more representative of the car's actual state.

[MyTunes]

I had left-foot braking enabled on my old S4, but I never tried brake boosting the car off a roll. I don't see why it wouldn't work since the car no longer cut throttle when braking. Wiith a 7070 RPM rev-limit, I just set the min RPM for lock-out at 7080.

Also, somebody mentioned relying more on correction factors than knock voltages. I wanted to address this. As you experiment with the various maps that control the knock to correction factor ratio, you will realize that correction is easily manipulated and "raw" knock voltages will be more representative of the car's actual state.


Was hoping you would chime in...[race]

[PiggieSmalls]

Was hoping you would chime in...[race]

Do I know you? :-)

[MyTunes]

Do I know you? :-)

Yup, but not under this name [>_<] Hehe

And from "another" forum

[PiggieSmalls]

Yup, but not under this name [>_<] Hehe

And from "another" forum

Sneaky. :-P

[rarak69]

Hopefully it does.

it does, as i stated i have this in my current file. works a treat! 16psi brake boosting : )

about the SAI....send me a tip .ori file ill look through it.

and im not sure why youd get rid of the EGT sensors really, its a nice feature, but yes its possible to tune it out.

[jibberjive]

and im not sure why youd get rid of the EGT sensors really, its a nice feature, but yes its possible to tune it out.
Say, for example, you're stage 2 with EGT codes and are going GT's. If you don't want to buy 2 expensive OEM sensors and you're going to be running a wideband that you plan on running an EGT on anyways, then it could be nice to have the option to raise their value in the tune or whatever you do to make them obsolete (though I don't know how raising the temp value of when the EGT's become effectual would cure the CEL for them not being there at all or a closed loop.) Anyways, would just be a nice option. I'm not far into this at all and haven't taken the time to learn much about this, but I think it's interesting how people can manipulate the code and tune for boost that is higher than the MAP sensor can even read.

[rarak69]

Say, for example, you're stage 2 with EGT codes and are going GT's. If you don't want to buy 2 expensive OEM sensors and you're going to be running a wideband that you plan on running an EGT on anyways, then it could be nice to have the option to raise their value in the tune or whatever you do to make them obsolete (though I don't know how raising the temp value of when the EGT's become effectual would cure the CEL for them not being there at all or a closed loop.) Anyways, would just be a nice option. I'm not far into this at all and haven't taken the time to learn much about this, but I think it's interesting how people can manipulate the code and tune for boost that is higher than the MAP sensor can even read.

yea i hear ya, ill look into the EGT delete, whats involved, there are a handful of maps for egt, so you may need to change a lot, but who knows till i look into it.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Just got home... almost one, gonna look into everything tomorrow (day off :), so look for some updates and clean up of the first few posts...

Maybe even try a few new things on my S4 later in the evening starting with a fresh stock M-box bin again... Clearly I had wayyy too much going on in my last attempt and won't know what is effecting what anymore.

Rarak, so you're saying KWP2000 only takes 4 min to write to the ECU w/o boot mode? I'll have to look into it then I guess... Just seems strange the Galletto w/o boot mode takes anywhere from 17-20min so I would have expected KWP2000 w/o boot mode to be the same.

either way, I'm gonna mod my spare 'tuning' ECU to have a nice little toggle tomorrow as well.

[rarak69]

Just got home... almost one, gonna look into everything tomorrow (day off :), so look for some updates and clean up of the first few posts...

Maybe even try a few new things on my S4 later in the evening starting with a fresh stock M-box bin again... Clearly I had wayyy too much going on in my last attempt and won't know what is effecting what anymore.

Rarak, so you're saying KWP2000 only takes 4 min to write to the ECU w/o boot mode? I'll have to look into it then I guess... Just seems strange the Galletto w/o boot mode takes anywhere from 17-20min so I would have expected KWP2000 w/o boot mode to be the same.

either way, I'm gonna mod my spare 'tuning' ECU to have a nice little toggle tomorrow as well.

yessir, 4 min on the dot usually. no boot mode no nothing. plug it in, remove fuse, put charger on, flash.

[complacentsee]

yea i hear ya, ill look into the EGT delete, whats involved, there are a handful of maps for egt, so you may need to change a lot, but who knows till i look into it.

I suspect a simple way would be to just zero out all the enrichment. The failing egts might through a code, but then it shouldn't effect fueling/boost. Lastly the ecu would still through a code, but the code doesn't throw a CEL.

[wdbdy2000s4]

NYET updated his wiki with more useful info boys:
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

[NorCalS4]

NYET updated his wiki with more useful info boys:
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

Oh we know. We defiantly know. thanks though

[NefMoto]

Just got home... almost one, gonna look into everything tomorrow (day off :), so look for some updates and clean up of the first few posts...

Maybe even try a few new things on my S4 later in the evening starting with a fresh stock M-box bin again... Clearly I had wayyy too much going on in my last attempt and won't know what is effecting what anymore.

Rarak, so you're saying KWP2000 only takes 4 min to write to the ECU w/o boot mode? I'll have to look into it then I guess... Just seems strange the Galletto w/o boot mode takes anywhere from 17-20min so I would have expected KWP2000 w/o boot mode to be the same.

either way, I'm gonna mod my spare 'tuning' ECU to have a nice little toggle tomorrow as well.

My KWP2000 software flashes in 47 seconds. [>_<]

Too bad it isn't in a state where I can release it to the community yet. [headbang]

[NOTORIOUS VR]

My KWP2000 software flashes in 47 seconds. [>_<]

Too bad it isn't in a state where I can release it to the community yet. [headbang]

I really think you should send the software my way for some Beta... hell Alpha testing [:D]

[NorCalS4]

My KWP2000 software flashes in 47 seconds. [>_<]

Too bad it isn't in a state where I can release it to the community yet. [headbang]

So your software uses KWP2000+ cable/hardwear?

[NefMoto]

So your software uses KWP2000+ cable/hardwear?

It is written to use the FTDI 232 USB chip, so it will work with any cable containing that chip. This is also the reason I can run at the funky baud rates required for faster flashing.

[NorCalS4]

I really think you should send the software my way for some Beta... hell Alpha testing [:D]

+1

[MyTunes]

+1
+2

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So I have put up a forum on my webspace... and have slowly started to organzie and migrate info over. I want to keep the post going on AZ though because it's seems to be attracting a lot of attention which is good IMO.

I basically created the forum to allow me to organzie the info better, and to give people a place to talk about just tuning Motronic.

So sign up if you like and if some of the more active members here want to help moderate that would be great too!

http://schnell-engineering.com/ME7_forums/index.php

Thanks!
Sascha

[rarak69]

So I have put up a forum on my webspace... and have slowly started to organzie and migrate info over. I want to keep the post going on AZ though because it's seems to be attracting a lot of attention which is good IMO.

I basically created the forum to allow me to organzie the info better, and to give people a place to talk about just tuning Motronic.

So sign up if you like and if some of the more active members here want to help moderate that would be great too!

http://schnell-engineering.com/ME7_forums/index.php

Thanks!
Sascha

sweet! i just joined, i got some files to upload.

[rarak69]

My KWP2000 software flashes in 47 seconds. [>_<]

Too bad it isn't in a state where I can release it to the community yet. [headbang]

thats awesome, any kinda write failure protection, like resume where it left off type of thing? That would be nice feature if its possible for you to do it.

Im pretty sure kwp supports this, as i had one failed write when my charger turned off for no reason and didnt notice it. i was able to restart back from where it left off, thankfully.

[NefMoto]

thats awesome, any kinda write failure protection, like resume where it left off type of thing? That would be nice feature if its possible for you to do it.

Im pretty sure kwp supports this, as i had one failed write when my charger turned off for no reason and didnt notice it. i was able to restart back from where it left off, thankfully.

With the VAG KWP2000 protocol you can flash a sector at a time or the entire flash chip. As long as you only erase and flash a sector at a time, the ecu will still boot after a failed flash. Your car will not start due to checksum errors, but you will be able to restart the flash.

[NefMoto]

I really think you should send the software my way for some Beta... hell Alpha testing [:D]

I haven't manufactured any cables yet, so I will need to put together a test application people can use for checking cable compatibility before anyone can test anything.

[rarak69]

With the VAG KWP2000 protocol you can flash a sector at a time or the entire flash chip. As long as you only erase and flash a sector at a time, the ecu will still boot after a failed flash. Your car will not start due to checksum errors, but you will be able to restart the flash.

excellent info nefmoto. thats why i can fail a write and still be able to flash without issues.

so you flash the entire chip at once to get the speed? or are you doing it a sector at a time?

[NefMoto]

excellent info nefmoto. thats why i can fail a write and still be able to flash without issues.

so you flash the entire chip at once to get the speed? or are you doing it a sector at a time?

I do a sector at a time to get that speed. [;)]

I ordered a Galletto cable to see if it is compatible with my software. Hopefully it is, and then I won't have to make everyone wait while I get cables made.

[TWiST]

I registered too I am very interested in keeping up with this.

[NorCalS4]

I registered too, I dont have anything to contribute yet, but I am very interested in keeping up with this. I am a systems engineer I do IT work, so hopefully at some point I will be of some use to this project. Oh and I have a 2001 S4 [cool]

Are you in the bay or in so cal?

[rarak69]

people, join up on the forums that were created. we have been getting files uploaded so go to it.

[NefMoto]

I would like to let everyone know that the NefMoto Forums and Dev Blog are now up and running.

Check it out at: www.nefmoto.com

I will be posting info about KWP1281 and KWP2000 communication protocols, original ECU files, Audi documentation, wiring diagrams, turbo compressor maps, etc. I will also be posting information about the software I am developing.

At the moment the site doesn't have all of the documentation and resources uploaded yet, but I will be doing that in the next few days. So stay tuned, or follow my Dev Blog RSS feed if you don't want to keep checking the site.

Sorry to create another ME7 site, but it was already in the works before the other site was launched.

[JaredVL]

i feel left out, i want to make a site with a bunch of tuning info also. i think other than 3 liters and GTs, thats new big trend.

[Trumps]

Nefmoto... I tried registering but captcha is broken :(

[NefMoto]

Nefmoto... I tried registering but captcha is broken :(

Damn Murphy's law. Captcha requirement is disabled until I get it sorted out. Sorry about that.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Sorry to create another ME7 site, but it was already in the works before the other side was launched.

We're not the first, and won't be the last to make sites for tuning Motronic lol...

As long as we can keep the info organized that's what matters [up]

[Matt Danger]

The more info the better. Thanks Notorious & NetMofo for posting info.

[NorCalS4]

i feel left out, i want to make a site with a bunch of tuning info also. i think other than 3 liters and GTs, thats new big trend.

LOL, there is already VRs and nefmoto's, then nyet tuning wiki and the "other" forum.

I dont think we need another.

[DxC]

LOL, there is already VRs and nefmoto's, then nyet tuning wiki and the "other" forum.

I dont think we need another.

the concept here is how to manage effective and efficient knowledge transfer ... jared has a ton of knowledge/experience to share. i wish this was starship troopers and i was the brain bug, because i would just stick my probe in all the knowledgable peoples brains and suck their brains out ... but its not so i guess everyone should just make websites. that brain bug got caught at the end of the movie anyway ...

what would be cool would be one huge S4 conference somewhere with all the big players in the S4 game. and we invite 1 n00b to educate.

[complacentsee]

lol, Jared should make a forum.

I always want to ask him all sorts of questions about pulling heads.

[yrk2.7T]

lol, Jared should make a forum.

I always want to ask him all sorts of questions about pulling heads.

Haha well he is the head expert [>_<]

Hi J!

[JaredVL]

lol you guys, i was kidding, between nye, nef and VR we will be good.

maybe those guys can all combine forces somewhere also, make things even more tidy.

[TWiST]

Are you in the bay or in so cal?

I am in SoCal, just outside LA

[TWiST]

the concept here is how to manage effective and efficient knowledge transfer ... jared has a ton of knowledge/experience to share. i wish this was starship troopers and i was the brain bug, because i would just stick my probe in all the knowledgable peoples brains and suck their brains out ... but its not so i guess everyone should just make websites. that brain bug got caught at the end of the movie anyway ...

what would be cool would be one huge S4 conference somewhere with all the big players in the S4 game. and we invite 1 n00b to educate.

The brain bug thats hilarious! I just watched that the other day I had not seen it in years I still think its an awesome movie.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

BUMP! Gonna try some stuff over the long weekend! Anyone else? :)

[rarak69]

well ive made like 5 revisions over the last two days, trying to get my fueling and boost in check. today it appears as though i hit the nail on the head, perfect boost and fueling with my current setup, very happy so far, i want to get some numbers at the dyno for sure now since its running awesome. then ill install my FMIC and see those numbers all the time :)

[sfored]

yo - Motronic GODS and GURUS .. can you help a beast owner turn off a bunch off "unnecessary" lights off int he dash ?

I am on a stand alone .. obviously the stock ECU is freaking out ... any way of turning all the cluster warning lights OFF ?

Thank you in advance..
Ari ..also socal

[rarak69]

yo - Motronic GODS and GURUS .. can you help a beast owner turn off a bunch off "unnecessary" lights off int he dash ?

I am on a stand alone .. obviously the stock ECU is freaking out ... any way of turning all the cluster warning lights OFF ?

Thank you in advance..
Ari ..also socal

you sure could. you would need the hardware/software to flash the computer or ask a local once people get into this.

[sfored]

you sure could. you would need the hardware/software to flash the computer or ask a local once people get into this.

Nyet - this has your name all over it :)

[rarak69]

little bit of an issue to work out, it was pretty cool out last night here in pittsburgh(high 50's) hit limp mode(5psi) my boost is badass in lower gears, but this cool air i hit 23psi spike for about 2 seconds...limp. so how do i factor in density of air? or is it a tradeoff and just lower my ldrxn?

on a plus side though, after restarting car, i ran a mazdaspeed 3 w/ a 28rs/built at 10psi from a dig...i had 2 other people in the car and pulled 1.5 lengths to third(closed course)

talked with the guy, checked his motor out, its legit, he had said he dynoed 245whp on the local dyno a few months ago at 10psi, 285 at 15psi(slipped clutch) so he's saving up for a stg3 clutch.
V6 TQ FTW!