Lets talk engines...

[AudiA4_20T]

Ok so are all the 2.2 Inline 5 turbo engines the same?

Ive seen this engine in random cars like 4000s, original UR-Quattros, S6s, S4s, sport quattros, S2s, etc

So, whats the deal? are there many different 2.2 Inline Turbo 5s? and if theyre different what makes them different?

Thanks guys

[chucka4]

well there is a list of differences, and i only know a small portion but i will try and do my best.

i think the first inline 5 turbo was made in the early 80s, maybe 83. it was used in the Ur quattro, and later in the S1. it was around 200hp i think. that engine is a inline 5 10 valve turbo. this was also in the 4000, 5000, 100, and i think the 200. the engine code is a 3B

later in 89, they began the 2.2 inline 5 20 valve. it was installed in the s2, rs2, Ur s4 and later the Ur s6. in the usa, we only saw the 2.2 230hp, 230tq motor in the Urs4 and s6. but in the rs2, it put out around 320hp. that was in Europe though. although there is a genuine rs2 in Pittsburgh, its not taken care of very well, and thats a whole different rant lol. the motor for all these modles is called a AAN.

the mods to make a stock AAN from the s4/s6 into a rs2 is very basic. the RS2 turbo, manifold, injectors, and intake bolt right up, and they just need a chipset to go along with the tuning and you have a full rs2 motor. for the most part.

now, they also made a inline 5 non turbo. which is most common in some early 100 and coupe quattros from 89,90,91. its called a 7a. some of the parts are interchangeable from the 7a to the AAN and back, but after all said and done it is better just to get the AAN.

a company in colorado put the AAN from a Ur s4, into a B5 a4 and use it for hill climbs and rally. i have wanted to do that for a long time, but i don't have the money right now. i think it would be the best of both worlds though.

the biggest differences between the B3 and the AAN is that the B3 is 10 valve, where the AAN is 20 valve. also the fuel system is a lot different. with those, the tuning/ecu's are going to be different. all around i think the AAN is better, but if you were trying to put a motor swap in a older than 89 audi, the 3B would work better.

and also, the AAN bolts to a B5 tranny, so you can get a 6 speed in there. the RS2 have a 6 speed but there big bank to get.

hope this helps a bit.

[branden]

chucka4, the 3B was only in the Audi 200 in 1991. The 5000's and early 200's all had 10V Turbo motors. Not 20V Turbo motors.

5 Cyl 2.2 10V Turbo Engine Code: MC-1 <5000's, 200's till 90
5 Cyl 2.2 20V Turbo Engine Code: 3B < audi 200 1991 ONLY
5 Cyl 2.2 20V Turbo Engine Code: AAN < S4/S6 from 1992-1995
5 Cyl 2.3 20V Engine Code: 7A < 90's and Coupe Quattros from 1990-91

Bottom line. Best motor is the 3B or the AAN. Any more detailed questions you have regarding the Audi 5 cyl. Go to Motorgeek.com That website is full of us old school Audi guys who are obsessed with the 3B and AAN. :D Or 034 motorsports for performance parts.

[Nebone]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?

[s6sputnik]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?

Nope 034 is Javads company! NOT a Motor!

Also Branden is correct about the 3B in the USA it was only available in the 1991 200q20v. It is very similar to the AAN motor of the '92 S4-97 S6. Coils vs distributer being the big difference!

[AudiA4_20T]

so say I found an AAN motor from a 91 Audi 200... That would be nearly the same as the URS4 motor?

[chucka4]

if it was a AAN it would be the exact same. but if it was out of a 200, its the 3b and they were a little different. what are you looking to put the motor into?

[BING]

The 3B from the 91 200 and is not the same as the AAN from the 92-97 urS Carshttp://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/11704RS21.JPG (http://www.audizine.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22236) This is the 3B swapped into a Coupe Quattro with a Porsche intake in the same position where a stock intake would also be..

[BING]

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/11704DSCN0307_Large_.JPG (http://www.audizine.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=26541)Here is my AAN in my 93 urS4 that has a new turbo and header with airbox delete...

[e.Mills]

hey, no love for the NA I-5's on here? hehe... yeah, my '89 (pre-20v production run) has a wopping 130 hp! i just gotta find an old 5k around here and talk the mrs into letting me use it as a parts car

[Renaissance_S/C]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?


Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticles/eurp_0805_1998_audi_80_castrol_top_shop_challenge/index.html

[BING]

Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticles/eurp_0805_1998_audi_80_castrol_top_shop_challenge/index.html

"Most" of the part numbers for my S4 begin with 034 . .I cant remember if that applies to the other 2 i have. I dont order many parts for them..

[branden]

034 Motorsports RULES!!! [hail]

[AudiA4_20T]

ok what came in the UR-Quattro? is that a 10v turbo?

[BING]

Ur-Quattro had a 10v turbo with CIS and mid 100's for horse , WX i believe was the engine code..There was also a gray market urQuattro that had a 200 hp 10vt, KG might be the engine code for that one.....IIRC !

[pilihp2]

wheres the love for the 115 horsepower 10v N/A I5 outa the 4000? its slow as balls but its......well its reliable right? i think thats all it has going for it...

and just a quick correction. the actual s1 was also known as the sport quattro in 1984. it was a I5 20v turbo motor putting out 300 horses. and then later changed to something like 350.

[Nebone]

Guy at work here has a 1987 Audi 4000 CS with a 10V turbo. It say for 10 years w/o use and he one day starts it up and uses it as a daily. Then, bunch of stuff started breaking and not its been sitting. It was pretty fast when it ran.

I knew 034 had something to do the with I5 motor. [up]

[PRY4SNO]

I might be buying a '90 CQ with the 7a, wondering how reliable they are > 216,000 km?

How hard is it to find an AAN engine, and what's a reasonable cost? Can you not just turbo the 7a?

[chucka4]

i had one with about the same miles, it was still strong and i just kept up with minor things needed replacing, plugs and wires, oil, stuff like that. best thing would be to get it and try to replace whatever you can that is basic upgrades. filters, fluids, stuff like that.

[e.Mills]

wheres the love for the 115 horsepower 10v N/A I5 outa the 4000? its slow as balls but its......well its reliable right? i think thats all it has going for it...

that's what i'm talking about! no love for my little gas sipper (34 mpg's on last tank!)

[AudiA4_20T]

this is what I'm looking for right?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/car/713194486.html

he said its a 7a but I think its an AAN right?

[tecknoquatt]

[QUOTE=Renaissance_S/C;2672510]Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

exactly!

[tecknoquatt]

this is what I'm looking for right?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/car/713194486.html

he said its a 7a but I think its an AAN right?


nope thats defintely a 7A car. unless there is a swap done but dont think it would be priced that low if it did.

[tecknoquatt]

i Might Be Buying A '90 Cq With The 7a, Wondering How Reliable They Are > 216,000 Km?

How Hard Is It To Find An Aan Engine, And What's A Reasonable Cost? Can You Not Just Turbo The 7a?

Its Hard, But Not Super Hard. Reasonable Depends On Condition And What All Comes With It. I Paid 3200 For Mine In 2003. Came With Ecu That Was Chipped, Uncut Harness And Was Super Clean With Only 100k On It. Had It All But The Dp And Ic. Typically I See Them Go For 1800-3500 Either 3b Or Aan

[e.Mills]

^ tactic, let audifans, justfourrings, audiworld and your local listings become your friends. most of the older cars that i've found, and been interested in, are owned by guys in their 40's that have taken care of these cars since new... there's a premium to be paid, but the ol' school guys have been doing this shiz for awhile. also, be prepared to be super frugal about your mods and learn the art of DIY.

or, you could just buy a car to rally the hell out of and not care that it's a NG [;)]

[Jung]

there was a guy wiht a urs4 in eurotuner a few months back that had an rs2 turbo on the i5t. It put out llike 400whp or something like that. pretty good shit for not very much money. i really want a urs4

[Mcstiff]

The RS2 turbo will not support 400whp.

Turbocharging the 7a can be done, 034 makes a kit, the 7a block and head are very similar to the AAN (the AAN has a diferent h2o manifold but you can machine the 7a for it).

Your HP goal should determine if it makes sense to use the 7a or swap in a 3b or AAN. If you want much more then say 350whp you should consider h beam rods and better pistons which pretty much makes swapping out the 7a pointless.

FWIW, Javad's 80 had a built 7a until recently.

[AudiA4_20T]

so what exactly is the difference between the 3b and AAN?

[LowlyOilBurner]

AAN has individual coils (1per cyl), 3B has a dizzy. You can easily convert the 3B to individual coils. The intake mani's are different on the aan and the 3b as well.

[317ssayzarc]

3B heads dont crack valve seats too right?

[LowlyOilBurner]

huh? Good question!

[317ssayzarc]

I think I read that a while ago on Motorgeek, but let me look around to check... Ill post up later though, Im out for now [up]

[317ssayzarc]

Heres where I found it!

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_63_73&products_id=360

I wouldnt question them on I5's haha, so Id assume thats a good hard fact [up]

[Mcstiff]

LOL WUT?

It says that they like 7a heads because they are rarely cracked. Where does it say that 3B heads do not crack? They are talking about bringing it the 3B spec regarding the water manifold ports.


We use the 7A head for heavily turbocharged applications, mainly for the reason that the 7A heads are RARELY cracked between valve seats due to the lack of stress the heads have seen, by performing this machining procedure the head is brought to basically 3B specification. The AAN uses a provision for a hall sensor on the camgear, this can be modified by the user or a 7A distributor can be used for the cam TDC signal to the stock ECU.

[PRY4SNO]

The RS2 turbo will not support 400whp.

Turbocharging the 7a can be done, 034 makes a kit, the 7a block and head are very similar to the AAN (the AAN has a diferent h2o manifold but you can machine the 7a for it).

Your HP goal should determine if it makes sense to use the 7a or swap in a 3b or AAN. If you want much more then say 350whp you should consider h-beam rods and better pistons which pretty much makes swapping out the 7a pointless.

FWIW, Javad's 80 had a built 7a until recently.

So what you're saying is that I should rebuild/balance my 7A and then add a turbo afterward? What's basic hp range (I know I know) for a built 7A with aggressive but streetable cams? 300-330 bhp?

I ask so I know what I'm working with before going FI. I.E. would I need to do a clutch before I add boost, etc.

[Mcstiff]

So 300 bhp = 225 AWHP. With a IC and a CDHG you should be able to hit that with a a 7a. Mine made about ~240bhp on 034's dyno with no IC and stock compression.

Take a look at my project thread, link in my sig.

[PRY4SNO]

Is that with or without turbo?

[Mcstiff]

Is that with or without turbo?

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25451&highlight

[PRY4SNO]

*chuckles*

I read that (a few weeks ago, actually) and noticed

-034 7a Stage 1 Turbo Kit, T3 60 trim turbo, 034 Stainless 7at manifold ~180whp but wasn't sure if you specifically meant it was part of the dyno run from your earlier post.

Got it though. [up]

I'm looking at a GT2871R with a well-planned build and some custom work here and there relating to the plumbing, piping and heating/cooling (I'm a steamfitter, dad is plumber, steam/gasfitter and we know a bunch of highly skilled stainless/aluminum/chrome and even some A-welders). Taking for granted I'll need to upgrade the ignition and fueling, brakes.

Gathering info for the build now while I catch up on deferred maintenance (PO) and restore/upgrade other aspects as needed.

So ~450awhp (or ~550 bhp) is not out of range, I'd assume? Looking for rally spec power with road car amenities.

I'm thinking a cross between RSCoupe's engine build and an OEM+ interior.

[PRY4SNO]

My inspiration, but I know cost and my needs for the car will change things along the way.

Props to RSCoupe and his work on this beautiful sister to JetJockey's car.


Engine
7A block bored to 83mm and align bored
O-ringed block
Crank polished and balanced
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Scat forged rods
ARP rod bolts
JE pistons (8.5:1) - swain coated
RS2 main and rod bearings - swain coated
Copper/steel layered head gasket
7A cams
Heavy duty valve springs
Oversize valves
Titanium retainers
Lightweight lifters
Adjustable cam gear
034 Motorsport tubular exhaust manifold
Garrett GT30R turbo w/ 3” V-band discharge
034 Motorsport 3” downpipe w/ V-band connections
034 Motorsport custom exhaust (oval side exit) w/ V-band connections
Wagner intake manifold
VR6 throttle body w/ 034 adapter
96lb. injectors (1000cc) - I'll be running E-85
Bosch 044 fuel pump
Audi wastegate
Intercooler – 24”x12”x3”
Tial 50mm blow-off valve
034 Motorsport aluminum radiator
RS2 fan and shroud
034 Motorsport motor and trans mounts – motorsport spec
034 Motorsport snub mount
Fidanza aluminum flywheel
ARP flywheel bolts
Spec stage 3+ clutch

Electronics
034EFI IIc standalone engine management

Examples of compromises: I'd go with Tracksport density mounts, and a steel billet flywheel (OEM maybe?), different injectors... those kinds of things.

[Mcstiff]

550 BHP and you will want rods and maybe (mostlikely) pistons. Up to ~400 you can get by with a stock bottom end if you have a good tune, IMO.

[PRY4SNO]

550 BHP and you will want rods and maybe (most likely) pistons. Up to ~400 you can get by with a stock bottom end if you have a good tune, IMO.

Nice!

I've read the 7A cams are more desirable, especially for higher revs in built/FI engines?

[Mcstiff]

I think the jury is still out on 7a Cams for high power. Many like them.

FWIW, if you go for 400BHP and blow up your, stock bottom end, 7a I take no responsibility. With a bad tune you can blow something up at 200bhp.

[PRY4SNO]

FWIW, if you go for 400BHP and blow up your 7a I take no responsibility. With a bad tune you can blow something up at 200bhp.

Really?? [o_o]

[Mcstiff]

I hope you are joking. There is a reason that people pay 034 et al for their services [wrench]

[034Motorsport]

I think the jury is still out on 7a Cams for high power. Many like them.

Here is a cam comparison of 7A vs. Stock AAN cams done back to back on a GT3082R Motronic-tuned (thanks to Nate) AAN S4 on 91 octane:

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/Laszlo/3040R_7a_vs_aan_cams.jpg

As you can see, the cams pick up a large amount of power.

This is what the car made on 100 octane with the 7A cams:

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/Laszlo/3040r_510whp.jpg

Javad's 80TQ also makes 703WHP using the AAN cams.

I'd say that a definite verdict has been reached. [;)]

[PRY4SNO]

I hope you are joking. There is a reason that people pay 034 et al for their services [wrench]

Yeah man, I'm just workin ya. We're chattin' a bit so it helps to know one another's style.

I just figure, come on -- I'm not going to track your IP and car and such and go postal on you... [>_<] that's silly.

I've had one engine blow on me because I neglected due diligence, and don't see it likely I'll be the victim of the same thing again.

Hence the questions. [az] (+ AG/MG)

There are some excellent local tuner/build options here and I'm mostly concerned about building the engine to the spec that I need the first time around. Coming to my tuners with the right questions or basic understandings helps maximize communication/$$$.

My biggest questions, actually, concern overlapping valves, standalone vs. reflash and stroking vs build for revs. Of course gt28xx vs. gt.30xx comparisons.

[PRY4SNO]

Laszlo: This also correlates with a built and turbo'd 7A?

PS

What do you recommend for a build spec to build and turbo a mostly stock 7A (other than gutted cat and Stebro exhaust) to ~450awhp?

Basically. [up]

[Mcstiff]

So 450+(450/3)=600BHP Using ~25% loss. I would suggest rods and forged pistons and lowering the CR from 10.3. You could make the 7A intake work with a internally wastegated turbo or you could go with a 3b intake and one of the many externally wastegated exhaust manifolds. A metal headgasket is a must. Intercooling will be required, various options OEM S2+. Larger injectors. Standalone engine management.

Of course you will want to upgrade the suspension and brakes for 450awhp :D

[PRY4SNO]

Of course you will want to upgrade the suspension and brakes for 450awhp :D

I've got Koni Yellows now, if those aren't sufficient I'd look at getting 2Bennett or similar custom coilovers using the existing Konis. Unless it ends up costing about the same as current version KW c/o's.

Brakes, because I intend to stick with the 4 lug bolt pattern, I'll go with the 034/AP Racing BBK for front and A8 rears with stainless lines, either AP or Motul brake fluid, and Hawk HPS pads.

Any big trade-offs between internal and external wastegates? Does that affect turbo choice (IE GT28xx vs. GT30xx)?

[petera4]

wrong! 034 motorsports got there name from audi...the first 3 numbers in the engine code

[PRY4SNO]

wrong! 034 motorsports got there name from audi...the first 3 numbers in the engine code

Wow... Left Field or what?

LOL

[pilihp2]

Wow... Left Field or what?

LOL

Like left field running into the stands...
HAH

[Mcstiff]

You can get a GT35R with internal WG.

My next turbo will be a BullsEye.

[coolworld]

you are very right it's depend upon tuning.550 BHP is a good engine but if it is tune up nicely.

[PRY4SNO]

You can get a GT35R with internal WG.

My next turbo will be a BullsEye.

Links?

[Mcstiff]

034 has the GT35R-WG Bullseye Power (http://www.bullseyepower.com/)

[PRY4SNO]

- What's the advantage, specifically, of a bullseye turbo? I notice DenverNoob has one on his sick built A4, maybe there better for higher altitude? Or just better build overall?

- So if I want to retain my intake manifold then I need an internal WG turbo, but if I upgrade to the AAN/3B or 034 Intake I can use the external WG and a 'normal' b/b turbo (no WG). Is that accurate?

[S4NORICE]

Any chance you IL5 guys know of any webpages that provide dimensional data for these engines? I just starting to some research on these engines, I am intrigued by these engines.

This may sound crazy but will the IL5 bolt into a B5??[o_o]

[S4NORICE]

a company in colorado put the AAN from a Ur s4, into a B5 a4 and use it for hill climbs and rally. i have wanted to do that for a long time, but i don't have the money right now. i think it would be the best of both worlds though.

and also, the AAN bolts to a B5 tranny, so you can get a 6 speed in there. the RS2 have a 6 speed but there big bank to get.

hope this helps a bit.


Hmmm... If this is true, I may just say goodbye to my 2.7t and go IL5[:D]. So your saying that the AAN will bolt up to a B5 S4 6spd?? That would be Tits! Anybody know the weight of the AAN?

I agree with you 100% that an IL5 mounted in a B5 with a 6mt would be the best of both worlds. I've only owned my S4 for about 6 months, I love it, but I sure wouldn't mind putting the front end of the car on a bit of a diet.

To the OP, sorry for thread jackin.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Laszlo: This also correlates with a built and turbo'd 7A?
PS
What do you recommend for a build spec to build and turbo a mostly stock 7A (other than gutted cat and Stebro exhaust) to ~450awhp?
Basically. [up]

With the 10:1 compression the 7A offers and the cast pistons a reliable 450hp is likely not possible.



Nope 034 is Javads company! NOT a Motor!


034 is an engine family for the second generation I5 10V.
035 is the first generation of the I5 up until 1984 of 1985.

I wager that 034 Motorsport happens to be named after this engine family.

The timeline goes like this:

035 -> I5 engine family used in the 100/200/80/90/urquattro up to 1984/1985
034 -> I5 engine family used 85 and on also with the advent of CIS-E this also includes the 20V used until 1996 or 1997 in the S6.


Hmmm... If this is true, I may just say goodbye to my 2.7t and go IL5[:D]. So your saying that the AAN will bolt up to a B5 S4 6spd?? That would be Tits! Anybody know the weight of the AAN?

I agree with you 100% that an IL5 mounted in a B5 with a 6mt would be the best of both worlds. I've only owned my S4 for about 6 months, I love it, but I sure wouldn't mind putting the front end of the car on a bit of a diet.


With the added length of the I5 I doubt that there would be much weight savings, the CG will still move forward quite a bit unless you mounted the engine further back meaning custom firewall etc.

Although the I5 is a pretty robust and neat engine, I'm not so sure why people would put it in the B5 as it's alot of work. A VR6 is a much better fit than the I5. The worlds fastest S4 runs a VR6. To each his own I suppose.

Shipped weight of an AAN isn't much less than a V6 or V8, about 300-320 pounds without accessories IIRC.

[Sales@RAI]

ok I know I'm bringing my thread back from the dead right now, but I'm still kind of confused here.

So, for a Coupe Quattro, if I wanted a nice turbo setup, the AAN block with 7A head would be nice? Or is the 7A block fine?

[Mcstiff]

- What's the advantage, specifically, of a bullseye turbo? I notice DenverNoob has one on his sick built A4, maybe there better for higher altitude? Or just better build overall?

Nothing wrong with a GT or other. I am friends with Autobahn Premier Service who are building DenverNoob's A4. They have had great results in Denver with the Bullseye.


- So if I want to retain my intake manifold then I need an internal WG turbo, but if I upgrade to the AAN/3B or 034 Intake I can use the external WG and a 'normal' b/b turbo (no WG). Is that accurate?

If you use a 7a intake, which you may not want to for 600 bhp / 450 awhp, you cannot use a stock aan or 3b exhaust manifold with external WG. If you go with a custom EM you could attempt to make an external WG fit. I am unsure at what level of power the 7a intake manifold becomes a restriction. There are flow numbers for it somewhere (MG maybe).


So, for a Coupe Quattro, if I wanted a nice turbo setup, the AAN block with 7A head would be nice? Or is the 7A block fine?


Quantify "nice turbo setup". There is a small window between what the stock 7a pistons and rods can take and what a stock 20VTs can take. Outside of that range it is not worth swapping the 7a out. The 7a head, block, rods (search 027198401C) and crank (Same crank in the NF, NG, 7A, AAN, 3B, ABY) are not the issue. The 7a pistons are cast so they do not care for detonation.

034 is building a chip tuned CQ w/7aT (http://www.034motorsport.com/gallery/v/Featured_Users/ParishCoupe/) (stock ECU chipped) that makes ~300WHP on 91 OCT with a CDHG. If we assume that this is the limit of the 7a pistons (with a good tune it is not) then we are talking about a ~150 whp window that swapping in a AAN/3b is worth it before you are upgrading rods; Javad has said that ~400 #/ft is the limit for I5 20v rods.

Ignition is a concern that we have not touched on here; at some point you need more power and COP.

My plan/goal is 350 whp before I replace the 7a pistons and rods. [evilsmile]

[Sales@RAI]

Nothing wrong with a GT or other. I am friends with Autobahn Premier Service who are building DenverNoob's A4. They have had great results in Denver with the Bullseye.



If you use a 7a intake, which you may not want to for 600 bhp / 450 awhp, you cannot use a stock aan or 3b exhaust manifold with external WG. If you go with a custom EM you could attempt to make an external WG fit. I am unsure at what level of power the 7a intake manifold becomes a restriction. There are flow numbers for it somewhere (MG maybe).




Quantify "nice turbo setup". There is a small window between what the stock 7a pistons and rods can take and what a stock 20VTs can take. Outside of that range it is not worth swapping the 7a out. The 7a head, block, rods (search 027198401C) and crank (Same crank in the NF, NG, 7A, AAN, 3B, ABY) are not the issue. The 7a pistons are cast so they do not care for detonation.

034 is building a chip tuned CQ w/7aT (http://www.034motorsport.com/gallery/v/Featured_Users/ParishCoupe/) (stock ECU chipped) that makes ~300WHP on 91 OCT with a CDHG. If we assume that this is the limit of the 7a pistons (with a good tune it is not) then we are talking about a ~150 whp window that swapping in a AAN/3b is worth it before you are upgrading rods; Javad has said that ~400 #/ft is the limit for I5 20v rods.

Ignition is a concern that we have not touched on here; at some point you need more power and COP.

My plan/goal is 350 whp before I replace the 7a pistons and rods. [evilsmile]

I'm saying as far as head flow, block strength, etc.

I would like 600whp down the line, so what would be the block and head combination that would work best? Disregard the internals, because I will be replacing them anyway.

The reason I ask is that there are a lot of non turbo audi 100/200 cars at the junkyard as well as some 10v turbos. So, if there are any parts that would be beneficial for my goal of 600whp than I would like to get them.

I know I'm all over the place but thanks for bearing with me [:D]

[Mcstiff]

I do not believe there to be much difference, internally, between the I5 20v heads. The 20VT heads are machined to accept an extra coolant manifold that increases cooling. Big valves are available.

I do not believe any I5 block to be weaker then another (The 034/Javad's 80 has a 7a block). Compression ratios can vary; you can get pretty low by mixing a 10v shortblock and a 20v head (too low for the street). Search "Frankenstein" on MG and you'll find the combos.

If you have a 9.x:1 CR and aftermarket internals you should be good to go as far as engine strength. It helps that you have more air in MD.

Jim Green's 90 is a good example of a 20vt I5 near your power goal. (http://mswanson.com/~jgreen/car_home.html) Depending on how you trust conversions for ALT; I think he could be around 600whp @ ~0'. He is in CA now but I do not believe he has been to the track on on a dyno yet.

[deephouse]

Really the only logic you should follow is that 7A block/head has not been under the "pressure" of a turbo during it's lifetime. So a low mileage, maintained, virgin 7A block is what you're after.

[Sales@RAI]

I do not believe there to be much difference, internally, between the I5 20v heads. The 20VT heads are machined to accept an extra coolant manifold that increases cooling. Big valves are available.

I do not believe any I5 block to be weaker then another (The 034/Javad's 80 has a 7a block). Compression ratios can vary; you can get pretty low by mixing a 10v shortblock and a 20v head (too low for the street). Search "Frankenstein" on MG and you'll find the combos.

If you have a 9.x:1 CR and aftermarket internals you should be good to go as far as engine strength. It helps that you have more air in MD.

Jim Green's 90 is a good example of a 20vt I5 near your power goal. (http://mswanson.com/~jgreen/car_home.html) Depending on how you trust conversions for ALT; I think he could be around 600whp @ ~0'. He is in CA now but I do not believe he has been to the track on on a dyno yet.

Is that "MC2" block he has from a 7A as well? If so I would love to pick up an engine from the junkyard (I think they go for ~$200 for the shortblock and head with no accessories) and get started

[Mcstiff]

The MC2 is not a 7a; It is a 10v engine. Jim started out with a 10vT then upgraded to 20vT. Like I said the blocks are not very different. Some searching on Motorgeek would be good as there is a build using just about every option in the Project forum.

[Mcstiff]

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25827#345849&sid=62e8afa71d1a8377cab41e2a4fe0a57b

[Wizard-of-OD]

Is that "MC2" block he has from a 7A as well? If so I would love to pick up an engine from the junkyard (I think they go for ~$200 for the shortblock and head with no accessories) and get started
Clint.
If you are interested we could build a lovely motor for R.A.I. Motorsport to your specifications.
There is no one in this community that will ever hold the knowledge that we do in inline-5 motor tuning.
That includes the New rabbit 2.5 Motor as well.[:)]

[Mcstiff]

There is no one in this community that will ever hold the knowledge that we do in inline-5 motor tuning.
That includes the New rabbit 2.5 Motor as well.[:)]

[hail] WJW

[PRY4SNO]

There is no one in this community that will ever hold the knowledge that we do in inline-5 motor tuning.[:)]

PRECISELY why I'm saving my shillings and pence for the day when I can drive the CQ down to Fremont. Anyone else would truly be a travesty.