Sealant Question - experts chime in with your opinion!

[johnp69]

Ok guys ive been reading and reading about sealants and just like everything else there are a ton of opinions about a number of products out there. Is acrylic resin better or water based or synthetic...i just dont know which path to take so im looking to you guys and your experiences to provide me some direction!
Im leaning toward FMJ thanks to Phil at DD but i just want to hear some other opinions and discussions. Maybe we can all learn something?!
Thanks

john

[awahl63]

Which sealants are you looking at?

FMJ has a great look and is super easy on and off; however, durability is terrible especially because it is very finnicky to allow curing.

[Mike @ einszett]

Without getting into the specifics of each brand, it will come down to preference of appearance and effort/time you want to invest.

Acrylic Sealants
Acrylic sealants have the advantage of long-lasting durability - at least twice that of your average carnauba wax. Customers who like acrylics like the durability plus the resistance to carwash products and winter weather - primarily snow.

Those who don't like acrylics tend to be folks who just don't have the time to spend hours or days on their car if the acrylic requires cure time. They also say that the acrylic look is "plasticky" - not as "warm"/rich as carnauba waxes. For them, durability may not be an issue.

Carnauba Wax
Carnauba is the most durable wax on the planet... but with today's harsh environment, that doesn't say much. A standard carnauba wax will last on average 1-2 months. All carnauba waxes have some synthetic wax (not acrylic) in the mix to extend the durability. The more synthetic, the longer lasting it will be. But the trade off is that the carnauba finish is not as deep. ON the other end of the spectrum, not a lot of synthetic and the finish is very deep but not long-lasting at all.

Customers who like carnaubas like the look and don't mind the more frequent applications.

Synthetic Wax
Synthetic waxes marry the best of both worlds: carnauba and other natural waxes and acrylics. The product has the durability of acrylics but has most of the richness of a carnauba wax (this varies from brand to brand).

Customers who like synthetic based waxes like the durability and are willing to sacrifice some of the richness of a more traditional carnauba wax (with some brands *hint hint*, it's hard to tell the difference).

Our einszett Glanz Wax falls into the category of synthetic waxes but it also has carnauba in it.

That's really the three categories. Forget about the term water-based. Everyone has the impression that water-based products are made only with water. That's not true. All waxes (even those claiming to be "all-natural") have petroleum distillates in it. Yes, over the past few years, more of the petroleum has been taken out because it's a VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) which over time breaks down the Ozone. But petroleum is currently the best carrier for wax. Carriers "carry" the raw material on to the paintwork surface and then flash (or evaporate) leaving the raw material behind.

Hope this helps.

[VroomVroom]

Great information!

My experience is fairly limited...

Four Star UPP
My absolute go-to. It was the first product I tried and I haven't found a reason to stray far. Amazingly durable, both in terms of protection and in maintaining a slickness to the finish. Metallics/pearls just pop with this stuff. It is tempermental. Must be applied in the shade/indoors, and anything more than a VERY light coat will make for difficulty in removing.

Menzerna FMJ
Great stuff. Seems a bit more subtle, both in pop and slickness, than UPP. I haven't used it enough to compare durability against UPP, but my initial impression is that its useful life on the car is a bit shorter. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, however. I know a lot of pro detailers use it and swear by it, which led me to my purchase.

Poorboy's EX-P
The attraction with this stuff is that it can be applied in direct sunlight. Both FMJ and UPP are certainly more picky with respect to application, setup, and curing. If you work exclusively outdoors this is a good product to have on the shelf. Otherwise, I'd probably recommend one of the others. EX-P isn't as durable and doesn't add much to the look of the finish. Of the three I've used, this is definitely a base to be topped with wax. (On light finishes w/ pearl or metallic I often use UPP & FMJ with no topper.) With that in mind, I actually prefer Poorboy's EX, which is their sealant w/ carnauba. I tend to recommend EX to folks who only want to apply one product.

[johnp69]

Great information guys, that was exactly what i was looking for. Some technical explanations paired with real world experiences. Thanks again for taking the time to write them out!!!

[phil@detailersdomain]

great info Mike and thanks for sharing your thoughts on some of the products you have tried Vroom!

We need more posts like this on the forums.

[johnp69]

So if i go with the FMJ how often would i have to reapply in the winter to have complete protection from the snow and salt. Same question for the Glanz wax. Im just trying to get the best protection!

[boost junkie]

Based on recent reviews I've seen I just ordered a bottle of Chemical Guys Jetseal 109. The pics I've seen make it seem like it has a very carnauba-like appearance, maybe a little bit less depth and more shine/reflection. Durability seems to be very good too. The only down side is it's expensive, but I'm excited to give it a try. Most of the sealants I've tried so far have disappointed me in terms of durability.

[phil@detailersdomain]

Sealant is a fairly easy product to apply with a PC I can put down FMJ in about 5 -8 minutes and take it off in about the same.

Why not do it every month or two.

[boost junkie]

Sealant is a fairly easy product to apply with a PC I can put down FMJ in about 5 -8 minutes and take it off in about the same.

Why not do it every month or two.

Yeah they are easy to apply but the main reason to use sealants IMO is protection and durability. During the summer when I keep my car clean at all times I tend to use carnauba because of its superior looks. But for the winter I prefer sealants since the car generally goes through hell and doesn't get cleaned too often. I guess some people prefer the super reflective/high gloss look of sealants to the depth of carnaubas.

[Grouse]

Lets see i may have more exposure than most.
On and off 1-5 1 being a pain 5 being super easy or no wiping off
Durability 1-5 is 1 month to 5 months of daily driver use in seattles winter.
Correction rated 1-3. 1 can remove wipe marring, 2 can remove light buffer trails, 3 would be a final polish correction ability.

Klasse twins. Used together , The on is easy the off is a biatch 1 out of 5 comparatively. durability is a 3 out of 5 correction 1

FMJ On and off is 4 out of 5 durability is a 2.5 out 5 correction 0

PB ex-p On and off is a 3.5 out of 5, Durability is a 2.5 out of 5 correction 0

Pb ex on and off is 3.5 out of 5 durability is a 2.5 out of 5 correction is 0

CG jet seal on and off is 3.5, durability is 2.5 out of 5 correction 0

Opti-seal on and off is a 5 out of 5, durability is a 2.5-3 (still testing) correction 0

JW prime/jett combo. On and off is a 2 out of 5 durability is a 4 out of 5 correction 1

CG 50/50 on is a 3.5 out of 5 and durability is 2.5-3 out of 5 correction 0

Natty's blue red white on and off is a 2.5 out of 5 and durability is a 2.5-3 out of 5 correction 0

Swiss wax on is a 1.5 and durability is a 1.5-2 Correction 0

Apo 60 on and off is a 2.5 (rotary lots of sling with correction capabilities) durability is 2 Correction capabilities is a 2 out of 3

Einszet Metalic polish and wax on and off is a 3.5 out of 5 (machine, rotary, pc, flex) Durability is a 2 correction is a 1.5

Einszett glanz wax On and off is a 3.5 (have to work in smaller sections not whole car) Durability is about a 4, correction is 0

[Grouse]

Based on recent reviews I've seen I just ordered a bottle of Chemical Guys Jetseal 109. The pics I've seen make it seem like it has a very carnauba-like appearance, maybe a little bit less depth and more shine/reflection. Durability seems to be very good too. The only down side is it's expensive, but I'm excited to give it a try. Most of the sealants I've tried so far have disappointed me in terms of durability.

Jet seal and ex-p from PB are IMHO the same damn thing. I am not overly impressed with either. If you want a synthetic wax that lasts a while. Look at 1z glanz. I have relegated my ex-p and 109 to wheel use because of 1z glanz

[Grouse]

So if i go with the FMJ how often would i have to reapply in the winter to have complete protection from the snow and salt. Same question for the Glanz wax. Im just trying to get the best protection!

Keep in mind that often environmental issues will negate any durability times. For instance the liquid deicer used in seattle strips sealants and waxes in one day. I have had 3 good combos i like.

FMJ topped with 50/50 most of the car made it through the winter with a 2nd application of 50/50 (6 months)

JW prime/Jett 7 months of summer use. I ended up needing to clay it very bad. Applied opti seal after that.

1z metalic / glanz so far i have 50-60 customers running this combo. a few of them are coming in for their 6 month due dates with good coverage still left.

[phil@detailersdomain]

that's a great wealth of information thanks for sharing.

[boost junkie]

I'm kind of wondering about how well Policharger works to boost the durability of some of these products. I've seen people post good results on Autopia but it seems like it's not that widely used and it makes application and removal a little more difficult in most cases. But it supposedly boosts shine and slickness and increases durability a lot.

[04audiA4]

Jet seal and ex-p from PB are IMHO the same damn thing. I am not overly impressed with either. If you want a synthetic wax that lasts a while. Look at 1z glanz. I have relegated my ex-p and 109 to wheel use because of 1z glanz

Interesting. A lot of CG and PB products seem to be the same. Im going to have to try some of that Glanz wax. Im finding myself wanting to try a lot of their products the more I read about them.

[3.0 Rider]

Interesting. A lot of CG and PB products seem to be the same. Im going to have to try some of that Glanz wax. Im finding myself wanting to try a lot of their products the more I read about them.

X2

I need to use more of 1z


How about Optimum poli-seal and Collinite 845?
there's a saleman in my town who distributes these sealants. He sweares that it's something beyond imagination and durability. He even said bad things about menzerna being good as metal polish only. Anyways, I'd appreciate any input from the pros on this forum about these sealants.

[B7A4AWD]

I too was interested to hear how the policharger was working. Seems like an interesting idea, but just wondered if it actually worked or not.

Does anyone know about whether applying more than 1 coat if that will affect the durability of the sealant. Are most of yall, (synthetic), only applying twice a year or more frequently, and how often are you claying the car then? If you do a good clay can you throw on a sealant and then just wash with Dawn to remove the wax the next time you go to apply, or should you clay again?

[Grouse]

Interesting. A lot of CG and PB products seem to be the same. Im going to have to try some of that Glanz wax. Im finding myself wanting to try a lot of their products the more I read about them.

Both I believe are descendants of malco products.

[Grouse]

I'm kind of wondering about how well Policharger works to boost the durability of some of these products. I've seen people post good results on Autopia but it seems like it's not that widely used and it makes application and removal a little more difficult in most cases. But it supposedly boosts shine and slickness and increases durability a lot.

It doesn't. Here is why. If a product lasts 2 months, I might get 3 months out of it with poly charger. but i have to deal with it dropping 2 spots on my on and off scores. You can not use Poly charger on a product with correction. Because well it stops correcting and starts marring. the heat generated by the correction process causes it to prematurely flash over and set.

I have tried Poly charger with, cg, pb, 1z, fmj, and the results were the same. MEH. It may work in spray sealants like, duragloss.

Hell if you want mine i will sell them to you cheap + shipping.

[Grouse]

X2

I need to use more of 1z


How about Optimum poli-seal and Collinite 845?
there's a saleman in my town who distributes these sealants. He sweares that it's something beyond imagination and durability. He even said bad things about menzerna being good as metal polish only. Anyways, I'd appreciate any input from the pros on this forum about these sealants.

I use Opti-seal. I have not tried poli-seal which a believe is being revised as we speak.

Collinite makes good stuff. It is a little Neutral though. niether warm or flashy.

[Grouse]

I too was interested to hear how the policharger was working. Seems like an interesting idea, but just wondered if it actually worked or not.

Does anyone know about whether applying more than 1 coat if that will affect the durability of the sealant. Are most of yall, (synthetic), only applying twice a year or more frequently, and how often are you claying the car then? If you do a good clay can you throw on a sealant and then just wash with Dawn to remove the wax the next time you go to apply, or should you clay again?

If your using a machine IE PC/Flex it will apply 1 coat evenly and completely.

Products like fmj, ex-p, jet seal work well with 2 coats.

1z glanz does not need a second coat. I have yet to have a car where i needed more than 1 coat applied by hand or by machine. Furthermore 1z says not to apply more than 1 coat.

[phil@detailersdomain]

Yes Glanz is an amazing product easy to use and results are great.

[EBG 18T]

1Z Glanz is easy to use, has great depth and shine and very good durability. 1 coat every couple months (4), with standard washes in between with a quick wipe down with some quick detailer keeps things looking good.

I have either thrown out the other products i had or relagated them to wheel use. I do like the Klasse AIO on wheels though.

[johnp69]

Thanks guys....I appreciate each of you taking the time to post your experiences...Glouse, very nice posts thanks so much.
Ive decided to go with the Glanz wax after reading above. Ill let everyone know what my results are after winter!

[johnp69]

Well guys thanks to all the fantastic posts and time taken to explain each of your experiences, ive decided to go with the Glanz wax, partially due to Grouse's awesome breakdown...Thanks man that was a great post!!
Couple of questions:
1 Can the glanz be applied with the PC
2 How many coats of glanz do i need, or can i apply
3 what is the best way to strip old wax...the paint surface is in good shape and doesnt need clayed so im looking for a quicker stripping method.

Thanks again guys...i wish i could return the favor with some knowledge but im just learning and i will however post my results!!!

[Grouse]

1 yes
2 1 layer only.
3 High alkaline detergent. 11 or higher on the ph scale. Dawn IMHO does not strip crap. you can also do a prepsol wipedown. but those solvents are made for prepping surfaces to be painted, not to be detailed.

[johnp69]

Thanks Grouse,
So I guess the question is where the hell can I get a high alkaline detergent...or is there another way besides the prepsol wipes?

[Grouse]

w-99 from einszett or Even einszett plastik

[johnp69]

Well i just finished my first application with my new shipment of Glanz Wax. I first tried it with the pc and and then by hand and honestly i couldnt get either way to haze over, i even waited as long as 10 minutes to try and let it haze or cure with no luck. I put the glanz on very thin and it was around 65-70 degrees in the detail bay.
So my question is, what is the trick to get this stuff to haze over? I hate to waste all that time applying if it doesnt haze or im doing something wrong and i dont get the desired protection!!

[phil@detailersdomain]

very strange I can get it to haze up almost immediately. maybe you put too little on?

[Grouse]

I used the word haze loosely. It is a very slight shift. It is not like the haze of fmj or a carnauba wax.

generally 1/4-1/2 oz for a 4 door sedan. If you are using about the same you are doing fine. I apply 2 panels wipe off, apply 2 more wipe off.

[johnp69]

I dont think i was putting too much on...even with a the pc and very small amount (maybe a nickle size) didnt want to haze over...kinda left an oily like film, even after buffing with 2 seperate MF towels?? very weird.

[04audiA4]

1 yes
2 1 layer only.
3 High alkaline detergent. 11 or higher on the ph scale. Dawn IMHO does not strip crap. you can also do a prepsol wipedown. but those solvents are made for prepping surfaces to be painted, not to be detailed.

Isnt Dawn high alkaline though, and even Woolite? I guess being high alkaline isnt the only chemical factor to consider?

[Grouse]

Not when it is cut with water, But yes you want high alkalinity and detergent power. From my testing dawn does jack.

Woolite is a neutral detergent that has absolutely no place in automotive detailing.

[04audiA4]

What about something like P21s total auto wash?

[Grouse]

P21s helps, Much more so than dawn. But on fresh sealant it will not cut it.

w99 is a far more alkaline detergent, or auto international's abc wash system.

[boost junkie]

Just an update, I tried out the Jetseal 109 and so far I am pretty impressed. I did 2 cars with it, my light grey (closer to silver) STi and my dad's dark grey (very dark) Porsche. I applied the first coat via PC with a CCS grey pad and the second coat by hand. Applying it is easy but it doesn't spread very far when doing it by hand, much better with a PC. Taking it off is a piece of cake. It leaves behind a very reflective shine and a very slick surface. I think a carnauba would be better on the darker cars to bring out some more depth but on a lighter colored car it looks great. Durability remains to be seen but so far I'm impressed. One thing I will say though, because it doesn't spread that far I ended up having to use a lot of it. And at $40 a bottle, that's a pretty serious drawback. I'm thinking about trying Collinite 845 or 1Z Glanz next to see if I can get similar results at a much lower price.

[04audiA4]

I only used 1/4- .5 oz. per application of JS.

[Quatime]

Not when it is cut with water, But yes you want high alkalinity and detergent power. From my testing dawn does jack.

Woolite is a neutral detergent that has absolutely no place in automotive detailing.

Please explain your test? Dish detergent is a pretty harsh degreaser that has no problem stripping wax off of the surface (along with stripping the rubber of it's natural oils). Using a clay bar, paint cleaner, or body solvent is the best way to remove wax.